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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg wall St Week. What's the state of

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Speaker 1: corporate governance? The deficit is a real issue. The US

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Speaker 1: economy continues to send mixed signals, the financial stories that

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Speaker 1: keep our world fed, action to con concerns over dollar liquidity,

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Speaker 1: and encouraging China data. The five hundred wealthiest people in

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Speaker 1: the world. Through the eyes of the most influential voices

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Speaker 1: Larry Summers, the former Treasury Secretary, START CEO, Kevin Johnson,

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Speaker 1: sec Chairman J Clayton. Bloomberg wool Street Week with David

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Speaker 1: Weston from Bloomberg Radio. It was a week of waiting,

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Speaker 1: waiting to find out whether the coronavirus is finally on

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Speaker 1: its way out, waiting for economic numbers that we knew

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Speaker 1: were bad and would only get worse. But it was

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Speaker 1: also a week of hope as we saw hospitalizations, at

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Speaker 1: least in some places start to go down. And also

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Speaker 1: we came to understand just how much the US government

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Speaker 1: is helping us, and not just the U S Government,

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Speaker 1: but the G twenty finance ministers trying to extend a

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Speaker 1: helping hand to countries around the world. And so we

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Speaker 1: start with that help, part of it given by Dallas,

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Speaker 1: President Robert Kaplan, whom we talked to him and asked

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Speaker 1: him whether his view about the U S economy has

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Speaker 1: changed in the last two weeks. Yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 1: basically My view is basically the same as it was

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago. I think we're gonna have a substantial

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Speaker 1: contraction in the second quarter, um and we've said publicly

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Speaker 1: annualized as much as but again that's annualized, so multiply

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Speaker 1: by four. We think we'll start growing again in the

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Speaker 1: third quarter, and we will continue to grow into the

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Speaker 1: fourth quarter. I probably would say today that peak unemployment

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Speaker 1: maybe closer to the mid to high teens, so maybe

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Speaker 1: a little higher than I've said before. And we still

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Speaker 1: believe that will end the year with an unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: something like eight or nine or ten, but in that range,

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Speaker 1: and the challenge going into will be to work that

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Speaker 1: unemployment rate down. So there seems to be a range

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Speaker 1: of views among FED presidents as well as the board,

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Speaker 1: which is why you have multiple people, so you have

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Speaker 1: different views in their express But if you take the

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Speaker 1: bullet on the one hand saying it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: sharp V and you have Mary Daily now saying, boy,

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Speaker 1: this could really drag into next year in a recession.

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Speaker 1: Where do you put yourself on that spectrum? Here's the worry,

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Speaker 1: here's the challenge going into this situation. We had sluggish manufacturing,

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Speaker 1: sluggish business fixed investment. Obviously a lot of that had

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Speaker 1: to do with with weak global trade. But the one

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Speaker 1: thing we had going for US is an economy is

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Speaker 1: we had a very strong US consumer. We had a

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Speaker 1: low unemployment rate, household balance sheets were in reasonably good shape,

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Speaker 1: and that was sevent the economy. The challenges as we

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Speaker 1: come out of this later this year, uh, and with

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Speaker 1: if if the unemployment rate really is eight, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a weekend consumer who's gonna you would think, save more,

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Speaker 1: be more careful, be a little bit more reluctant to spend.

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Speaker 1: And that's gonna be a head win for the economy.

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Speaker 1: And it may take a while, and I mean into

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Speaker 1: for the consumer to get his or her footing back,

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Speaker 1: And I think that will be dependent on how quickly

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Speaker 1: we can run down this unemployment rate to lower levels.

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Speaker 1: So do I do I think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a v I think the consumer situation makes me think

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Speaker 1: that we'll have a recovery and it will be a

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Speaker 1: solid recovery in the second half of the year. From

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Speaker 1: the levels we're at, we're still gonna have a forty

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Speaker 1: five percent contraction for the year. But then the question

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Speaker 1: will be what's the pace of growth and what's the

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Speaker 1: state of the U S consumer? Those those are the

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Speaker 1: questions and that's that's the issue I'm most worried about.

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Speaker 1: And the psychology the US consumer, it strikes me, is

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Speaker 1: not simply being somewhat more conservative because they got burned

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Speaker 1: in a downturn, but also being considered about their personal safety.

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Speaker 1: How willing are people going to be to go back

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Speaker 1: out even when they're allowed to do it, to go

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Speaker 1: to restaurants, to go out and spend to really participate

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Speaker 1: in economy. Will there be some relactionships because of personal

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Speaker 1: safety concerns. Yeah, So there's there's three levels of issue

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Speaker 1: with the consumer. One is personal safety. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: this is why testing ubiquity of testing is so critical.

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Speaker 1: If you had widespread testing at scale, I think that

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Speaker 1: would do a lot to give consumers confidence to go

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Speaker 1: into the workplace, to go out to restaurants, to go

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Speaker 1: into other public gatherings. But that's very much dependent on

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Speaker 1: how available is rapid testing. The other two issues are

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Speaker 1: job insecurity. Uh. You know, I just saw a survey

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Speaker 1: from the New York FED that said something like sev

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Speaker 1: of all workers are worried about their jobs about losing

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Speaker 1: their jobs. So there's there's that insecurity. And then the

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Speaker 1: last issue is just what's happened to the consumer financially, Uh,

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Speaker 1: and particularly that segment of the population which is sizeable

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have much savings and lives from paycheck to

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Speaker 1: paycheck and uh, and this is gonna make it even

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Speaker 1: make it so that even more caut so that those

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Speaker 1: are those are the three big issues that affect the consumer.

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Speaker 1: As we look at the models that you all run

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Speaker 1: at the FED, is it likely this pandemic will actually

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Speaker 1: affect the potential growth for the United States? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think before probably was probably around two percent more

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Speaker 1: or less. Does this take that number down somewhat going

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Speaker 1: out into the out years? Yeah, it may. And that

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Speaker 1: here's so we'll have we'll have some snap back growth.

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Speaker 1: One well, will grow faster than potential. Next year, we'll

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Speaker 1: grow at a higher rate if potentials two percent, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna we think we're gonna grow a lot faster than

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Speaker 1: two percent because we're making up for uh, what happened

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Speaker 1: this year. But if you get after, you get into

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Speaker 1: the future, there's two things that drive potential growth. One

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Speaker 1: is growth in the workforce and the second is growth

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Speaker 1: in productivity. And the concern not have is you have

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Speaker 1: a number of people that are that are they're going

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Speaker 1: to lose their jobs and are gonna have to find

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Speaker 1: new jobs. Some of them who are older, it's possible,

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Speaker 1: will decide to retire, I just withdraw from the workforce.

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Speaker 1: Others will need to get retrained. Some will have to

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Speaker 1: find it hard to find other jobs. So workforce growth

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Speaker 1: as we're as we're running down the unemployment rate, you

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Speaker 1: would expect a good rate of workforce growth as we

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Speaker 1: run that down. Though, UM, we had a workforce growth

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Speaker 1: issue coming into this because we're aging, demographics were such

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Speaker 1: we already we already had a workforce growth challenge and um,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna have to relook at that. And that

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Speaker 1: means job training. It also means revisiting a sensitive subject, immigration,

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Speaker 1: appropriate immigration ways to grow the workforce. That was Robert Kaplan,

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Speaker 1: president of the Dallas FED. Coming up on Wall Street Week,

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Speaker 1: we talk oil with our contributor of SNY best loss

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Speaker 1: of Rock Creep Group. This is Wall Street Week on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. It was another week of bad numbers, retail

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Speaker 1: sales numbers, industrial output numbers, and those jobless claims. As

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Speaker 1: millions more Americans are left unemployed. We talked with Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: We contributed Outsani best loss of the Rock Creek Group,

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Speaker 1: and we asked her whether we could be headed for

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Speaker 1: a jobless recovery. The numbers were more pessimistic than the

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Speaker 1: market expected. Today. It's interesting that the market itself has

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Speaker 1: not reacted as negatively to those numbers so far as

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Speaker 1: we would have expected. But the interesting thing about the

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Speaker 1: numbers UH that we saw is that, um, they do

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Speaker 1: not really they do not show the negativity of many

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Speaker 1: CEOs and CFOs that we've been talking to and pulling.

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Speaker 1: And if you talk to a lot of CFOs right now,

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Speaker 1: what they're seeing is that even if we come back

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Speaker 1: at the end of Q of Q two or um

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Speaker 1: have relatively more positive outcome, we still will have less

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Speaker 1: employment coming out of this than people expect. So I

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Speaker 1: have seen numbers that are up to ten to thirty

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Speaker 1: percent less employees when we stabilize, So that will have

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Speaker 1: a very big impact on the longer term markets but

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Speaker 1: also the economy, and we're looking at the possibility of

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Speaker 1: somewhat jobless recovery then signing well, it may not be jobless,

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Speaker 1: but it will be at the lower level of employment

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Speaker 1: than I think most people expect. What we're seeing is

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Speaker 1: both the CFOs of the largest companies not seeing employment

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Speaker 1: come back to quite where it was after this crisis,

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Speaker 1: but also, as we've seen with the p P P

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Speaker 1: and the programs for the smaller businesses, those businesses are

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Speaker 1: finding that it has been very difficult to actually get

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Speaker 1: access to the p pps which have now been all

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Speaker 1: fully allocated, and unless we get another batch of it,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be very helpful. Plus, it seems

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Speaker 1: like the market is talking about a lot of bigger

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Speaker 1: firms having had better access to the p P piece

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Speaker 1: than the true moms and pops or the smaller enterprises.

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Speaker 1: So again from an employment point, it's not clear either

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Speaker 1: for the larger companies or the smaller companies that were

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Speaker 1: being being um hoping to get access to the p

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Speaker 1: P peas that they their their employment numbers will come

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Speaker 1: up as we expected. The other thing that I think

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Speaker 1: is worth looking at is that, for example, in China,

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Speaker 1: what the government has done is actually just push out

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Speaker 1: cash through ally pay to every Chinese person or most

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Speaker 1: Chinese people. So you get a cash account on your

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Speaker 1: ally pay and you can buy goods with it. You

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Speaker 1: actually have to exit your home. You can't order online,

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Speaker 1: you have to go out. And they're trying to get

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Speaker 1: people to normalize behavior, to go out on the streets

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Speaker 1: to buy a cup of coffee, to get the meal, uh,

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Speaker 1: and maybe even go to the movies or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: we don't really have that. We're not really accessing and

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Speaker 1: consumers through the programs we've got In the US. You

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Speaker 1: know a lot about oil and energy. That's where you

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Speaker 1: started out as an expert in that area. What about

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Speaker 1: this report that the government may actually pay oil producers

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Speaker 1: to keep their oil on the ground sort of have

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Speaker 1: the strategic showing reserve reside in the ground. Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense? You know? Um, you uh, it's it's cheaper

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Speaker 1: to do that sometimes than storage, especially we're running out

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Speaker 1: of storage space in the US but also outside the US.

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Speaker 1: So I think, you know, if you assume that energy

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Speaker 1: is um oil and gas are are are not renewable.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it means that if you keep your stock

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Speaker 1: and its value goes up over a very long time,

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Speaker 1: it may not be exactly the most stupid program to have.

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Speaker 1: It's not exactly a common um common um uh common

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Speaker 1: plan that the d OE has had in the past.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time, I think we have expected that

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Speaker 1: our storage spaces would be available and be able to

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Speaker 1: um TO to do the same thing as we're talking about. Also,

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Speaker 1: because all the tankers that are out on the ocean

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Speaker 1: are also getting full, and most likely by sometime in

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Speaker 1: April or May day will before we might have to

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Speaker 1: stop producing, in which case there will have to be

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Speaker 1: some sort of program if we want to support the

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Speaker 1: industry domestically, whether this is the way to do it,

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Speaker 1: or another way might be to help the companies with

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Speaker 1: their credit programs and things like that might be more sensible.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the possibility of the employment situation not coming

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Speaker 1: fully back, and you look at the oil industry. Are

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Speaker 1: we looking at the possibility some long term even though

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Speaker 1: permanent changes in the structure in your industry? For example,

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Speaker 1: in the shale, all producers down in the oil patch,

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Speaker 1: they are really hurting. I'm not sure they'll fully come back.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, David. On the other hand, I think

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing, which is very surprising some of the

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Speaker 1: numbers we've been seeing this week, in fact, is the

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Speaker 1: renewable energy now has reached about just over of our

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Speaker 1: total power grid in the US, and in fact, the

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Speaker 1: Lone Star States Texas is a hub of not just

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Speaker 1: oil and gas the way we think about it, but

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Speaker 1: they have been building a quarter of all new solar

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Speaker 1: capacity that has been installed in the US, which is

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Speaker 1: may come as a surprise to most people who think

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Speaker 1: of Texas just as an oil and gas economy. So

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, you see that employment in one

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Speaker 1: part of the energy sector is going down, but the

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Speaker 1: employment potential for renewable energy might be going up at

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Speaker 1: the same time. And the question is will the renewable

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Speaker 1: survive and actually thrive as energy prices states lower in

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Speaker 1: a world in which we have much more renewable energy

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Speaker 1: and less of the fossil fuels, does that require as

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Speaker 1: much employment Because we can see, for example, in the

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Speaker 1: auto industry, electric fuels don't require the same number of

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Speaker 1: workers as in tern or combustion engines. It might be

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Speaker 1: the you know, the cars themselves don't but or they're

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Speaker 1: manufactured differently, but at the same time installing capacity, you know,

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Speaker 1: unless they soler on top of your house or in industries,

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Speaker 1: it still is relatively um it doesn't need labor. Different

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Speaker 1: kinds of labor may be trained in a different way.

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Speaker 1: All the parts and all the services that you need

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Speaker 1: for renewables also or clean water or anything climate related

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Speaker 1: also will generate a lot of employment. In fact, as

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Speaker 1: we speak, I would dare to say that the services

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Speaker 1: part related to renewables is experiencing as a problem with

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Speaker 1: getting all the access to good labor and experienced labor,

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Speaker 1: because we don't have that level of labor experience in

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Speaker 1: services part of renewables and water and things like that,

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Speaker 1: So there is a mismatch there, and if we can

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Speaker 1: get our training programs up, we might be able to

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Speaker 1: help some of this unemployment problems that we're seeing in

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Speaker 1: the other parts of the energy sector. And I think

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Speaker 1: I should also mention that in emerging markets you're seeing

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Speaker 1: the opposite trend because a lot of them are energy importers,

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Speaker 1: so just like in the US, will become very very

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Speaker 1: strong energy product producer in a lot of countries that

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Speaker 1: are energy importers, they will have the opposite experience in

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Speaker 1: the sense that as their economies start coming up, they

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Speaker 1: will benefit actually from these level of low energy prices

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Speaker 1: and that will in effect help their unemployment problems in

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Speaker 1: the longer run. That was Wall Street Week contributor Asana

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Speaker 1: Best Loss. Coming up on Wall Street Week, we stay

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Speaker 1: with the international response to the crisis and talk with

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Speaker 1: the I m f S former chief economists about what

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Speaker 1: the G twenty did this week to help countries less fortunate.

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Speaker 1: That's next on Wall Street Week on Bloomberg. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: G twenty finance ministers agreed this week to suspend debt

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Speaker 1: repayment by some of the poorest nations around the world.

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Speaker 1: We talked with the former chief economists for the I

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Speaker 1: m F now a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute

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Speaker 1: for International Economics, more Upstelled about why this is what

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Speaker 1: was needed. Well, it's certainly a great, a great help

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Speaker 1: in in the situation. Um, you know, these the poorer

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Speaker 1: countries are gonna be facing an unprecedented health crisis and

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Speaker 1: having to deal with international debt repayments at the same time,

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Speaker 1: when there are such great expenditure needs and resource needs

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Speaker 1: and their economies are in trouble. Would would would really

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Speaker 1: be an undue burden on them. So I think any

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Speaker 1: any sort of relief they can get during this crisis

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Speaker 1: this period is welcome. So you perfectly anticipated My question

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Speaker 1: was it's not enough to say you can keep the

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Speaker 1: cash for the time being enough to pay your debts,

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Speaker 1: but they're gonna need cash as well. Infused, and as

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Speaker 1: I understand, there is a proposal, is there not for

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Speaker 1: a special drawing rights issuance? And the report actual actually

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Speaker 1: Mr Lamaire over in France was the United States was

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Speaker 1: resisting that is that consistent with what you've heard? Well, there,

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Speaker 1: you know, there there we at Peterson have made a proposal.

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Speaker 1: Others have proposed this. You know, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: fairly low cost way to to you know, greatly improve

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Speaker 1: the the um liquidity of of of these poorer countries

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Speaker 1: at a time of crisis. And uh, you know they're there.

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Speaker 1: There have over the years been many, many criticisms of

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Speaker 1: special drawing rights, most of which don't don't hold much water.

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Speaker 1: So um, we think It's a step that would be

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty easy to take, and you know, we would

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Speaker 1: give these countries some unconditional resources that would have a

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Speaker 1: hive value to them in this crisis. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: the developed countries are struggling mightily as well. Is the

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Speaker 1: G twenty doing what it can or are the things

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Speaker 1: that should be doing to try to really get the

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Speaker 1: entire global economy coming back, including the development entries. Well,

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Speaker 1: the the the stabilization efforts that the G twenty countries

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Speaker 1: are taking for their own economies, you know, will certainly

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Speaker 1: benefit and spill over to to the emerging and developing economy.

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Speaker 1: So that's definitely a good a good thing, but there's

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Speaker 1: certainly much more that that could be done. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of the some of these issues are

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Speaker 1: in the in the realm of general financial support, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of these issues are in the realm of

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Speaker 1: pure pure public health policy. Um. The the international response

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Speaker 1: to the to the virus has h has not been

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Speaker 1: well coordinated, and as you said, countries have basically you know,

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Speaker 1: looked looked at their own needs and not really acted.

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Speaker 1: I this is a you know, a global global threat

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Speaker 1: that has to be controlled globally and you know, you

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Speaker 1: see this in the export restrictions on medical equipment that

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Speaker 1: a number of countries have put in place, which are

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Speaker 1: not only harmful to others, but are ultimately self defeating

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Speaker 1: given global supply chains for these equipment. Uh you see

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Speaker 1: this in the way um uh you know, the United

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Speaker 1: States has attacked the World Health Organization, which is exactly

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing to be doing in the midst of

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Speaker 1: the global pandemic. Where should we look for leadership right now?

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Speaker 1: Historically people have looked in the the United States in a

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Speaker 1: global crisis such as this. The United States is consumed,

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Speaker 1: in fairness with fighting its own version of the coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: But if it's not the United States, where will leadership

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Speaker 1: come from? Uh, you know, it's it's it's not clear.

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Speaker 1: I mean, over the US three years of the Trump administration,

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Speaker 1: the US has uh you know, mounted a concerted um effort.

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Speaker 1: It seems to to weaken international governance rather than to

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Speaker 1: pursue it's more traditional leadership role in the global economy.

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Speaker 1: So there is a there is a big hole there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I expect that in terms of supporting

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Speaker 1: the w h O, for example, Europe will step up,

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Speaker 1: China will step up. But this is this is far

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Speaker 1: from an ideal an ideal situation, and you know it's

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Speaker 1: clear is that the US, rather than providing leadership, is

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Speaker 1: addressing its own internal you know, political political conflicts. Now,

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Speaker 1: with your fairness, it's not only the US that has

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Speaker 1: has h prioritized domestic concerns. Um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: if you look at China, their initial response to the

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Speaker 1: crisis in terms of transparency with the global community leaves

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Speaker 1: much to be desired. And that that was also driven

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Speaker 1: to a large extent by internal politics of the U.

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Speaker 1: S isn't isn't completely unique, but you know, in the

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Speaker 1: past that has been able to largely rise above domestic

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Speaker 1: politics in the interest of its global leadership in global security,

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Speaker 1: where there was a bipartisan consensus that now seems to

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Speaker 1: be afraid to say the least. That was more up

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Speaker 1: spelled of the Peterson Institute and the University of California, Berkeley.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on Wall Street Week, Protecting the most vulnerable

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Speaker 1: among us from exploitation during this crisis from Massachusetts Attorney

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Speaker 1: General Mora Heally. This is Wall Street Week on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Street Week with David Weston from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: We like to think that a crisis like the one

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Speaker 1: we're in brings out the best in people, and there

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Speaker 1: are plenty of examples of that, but unfortunately there are

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Speaker 1: also those who seek to take advantage. We talked with

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts Attorney General war Healey about what she's seeing in

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Speaker 1: her commonwealth. Well, you know a few things that we're seeing. One,

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Speaker 1: you see people out there on the internet, UM, Instagram, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: their marketing coronavirus vaccines, treatments. All of these are scams,

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Speaker 1: and so in response, we go after them and quickly

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Speaker 1: try to shut them down. UM. We also see people

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Speaker 1: who are setting up these charities where they pretend to

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Speaker 1: be asking for support to support coronavirus victims, and again

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Speaker 1: their scams, and so we're just encouraging the public to

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Speaker 1: really do their homework before you ever give money like

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Speaker 1: that to to what you think is a charity. We've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of UM lately, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: reaching out UH via phone call, were on the internet

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Speaker 1: promising small businesses disaster relief and help, pretending to help

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Speaker 1: them with their application for that federal money which people

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Speaker 1: are so desperate for. And so we've been really clear

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Speaker 1: with the public only go through the public sites to

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Speaker 1: apply for and obtain um that relief. UM. But it

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Speaker 1: really runs the gamut. I mean recently there was a

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Speaker 1: woman named Suzanne Um she called herself, who was calling

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Speaker 1: around offering to help people with their student loans for

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Speaker 1: a fee. So we're monitoring this, We're encouraging people to

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Speaker 1: report these scamps to our office, and we're taking action

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Speaker 1: as we see it. So do you have something like

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Speaker 1: a hotline. We do in Massachusetts. We have a hotline

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Speaker 1: set up, and we also have a way for people

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Speaker 1: to file directly online or through social media with our office.

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Speaker 1: So we've got those those lines fully staffed up. We

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Speaker 1: had to just site off unlawful debt collection price gouging,

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Speaker 1: you know. That began a few weeks ago. And similarly

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Speaker 1: for these types of scams, if you discover these, what

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Speaker 1: can you do about them? Your court systems closed down,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? Can you take people into court? Well, it

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Speaker 1: really ranges. Some of the stuff is coming from overseas,

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Speaker 1: so it's harder to chase. But I mean, sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: just a matter of tracking down who owns the site,

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Speaker 1: calling them, sending cease and desist letters, we've had success

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Speaker 1: doing that. We also make sure that we warn the

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Speaker 1: public immediately, UM, so that they're on the lookout for

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Speaker 1: these kinds of unlawful solicitations. Look forward to a more

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Speaker 1: hopeful time. For example, when we get a treatment or

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Speaker 1: we get a vaccine, how will we make sure that

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Speaker 1: people can afford it? Because unfortunately, the wealthy have the

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Speaker 1: first access to these things. And yet a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: as I said, who have been most badly affected, have

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Speaker 1: not been the wealthy at all in most communities. So true, um,

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Speaker 1: and not only um, are they having trouble accessing health care.

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Speaker 1: I mean, our our health care system is so strange

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Speaker 1: right now, and you see the holes and the failings there.

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Speaker 1: But you know, remember a lot of these folks are

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Speaker 1: frontline workers, UM. But a lot of these folks to

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Speaker 1: have been laid off, they've lost their jobs, and so

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Speaker 1: we're going to need a whole UH safety net and

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of UH funding to to support them

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Speaker 1: and to to help them through this time. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, this isn't a weeks or months long endeavor.

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Speaker 1: This really is going to take us, um I think

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Speaker 1: years to recover from, to rebuild from. But you know,

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Speaker 1: My hope is that we rebuild in ways that are

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Speaker 1: more equitable, but deal with some of the underlying disparities

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Speaker 1: that result today in in black and Latino population disproportionately

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Speaker 1: being affected, sickened, and killed by the coronavirus. So we've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of work to do um but with

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Speaker 1: this devastation comes a lot of opportunity to rebuild in

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Speaker 1: a more positive direction. I think turned to a different

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Speaker 1: issue because Upper Massachusetts again, your Governor Charlie Baker announced

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Speaker 1: this tracking and tracing pattern with partners in health really

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Speaker 1: to try to isolate and identify the people who are

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Speaker 1: who have the virus and might spread the virus. Does

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Speaker 1: that raise issues for you in terms of privacy because

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Speaker 1: we now see Amazon a Google for example, or saying

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have an app up that will tell us

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Speaker 1: who we've been in contact with. Do we have to

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Speaker 1: consider that balance or is this a bad enough crisis

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Speaker 1: We said, look at we need to worry about saving

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Speaker 1: peoples lives. Looking to the privacy later on, well, I

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Speaker 1: think it is a matter of public health right now.

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Speaker 1: That is the priority. That that said, there is a

435
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: way to do it to account for people's privacy. I

436
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: think you need strong This has to be government lead, um,

437
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: so that the right protections are made in place. But

438
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: certainly whatever we can harness from the private sector, we

439
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: should be looking to harness. And the fact of the

440
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: matter is we're not going to see the economy open

441
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: as many people are clamoring for until and unless we

442
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: have measures in place to do that contact tracing, to

443
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: test to see who has the antibody um and may

444
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: be able to return to work to see who's head

445
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: the virus right um and and who's come out of it.

446
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: And ultimately we do you know, we do need to

447
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: get to a vaccine. So I think people need to

448
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: be patient. It's a terrible situation, I know, for uh

449
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: four for everybody, um and you know, but the fact

450
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: of the matter is untiling. Unless we have these measures

451
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: in place, we're not going to be able to open

452
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: open things back up. And we've got to get that right.

453
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: And we've got to put public health as the priority

454
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: ahead of everything. That was messages as Attorney General moura heally,

455
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: the world normally turns to the United States in times

456
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: of global crises, but is the United States up to

457
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: the task this time? Samantha Power spearheaded US efforts to

458
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: fight EBOLO when she was UN ambassador, something she writes

459
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: about in her memoir Education of an Idealist. We talked

460
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: with Ambassador Powers about President Trump's decision this week to

461
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: stop funding the World Health Organization. Well, it's an extremely

462
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: ill advised move and it has far more to do

463
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: with Trump's domestic politics, I think, and his dipping poll

464
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: ratings in terms of his handling of the crisis than

465
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: it does the w h O and any desire to

466
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: strengthen the global health response. Um. Three quarters of US

467
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: funding in terms of assessed in voluntary contributions goes to

468
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: such tasks as fighting polio, measles, tuberculosis, and so what

469
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: he's eating into is steady, stafe funding, the funding that

470
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 1: the United States has been giving for many years. UH.

471
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: The United States has made no major new announcements about

472
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: how it's really going to respond to the pandemic and

473
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: how it's going to use the w h O and

474
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: other international agencies to avert humanitarian catastrophe in the developing world,

475
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: and a catastrophe UH that of course will blow back

476
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: to the United States because of our links through trade,

477
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: through global supply chains, through family ties and so forth

478
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: to even remote parts of this earth. UM. So it's

479
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: it's I think more of an active spite and diversion

480
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: than anything that's said. W h O has not UM

481
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: performed I think optimally. I mean, there was too much

482
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: deference to China at the beginning. I think that also

483
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: speaks to the absence of US leadership within the organization.

484
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: The fact that China has been able to leverage a

485
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: very modest contribution to the w h O UH speaks

486
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: I think to the US retreat UH from organizations like that. UM.

487
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: But the w h O needs to go back and

488
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: look what when the time is right and what it's

489
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: not trying now to prevent millions from dying, maybe even

490
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, at the risk of billions being being UH infected.

491
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean there's a billion people in the world, David,

492
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: who can't wash their their hands at home, who don't

493
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: have running water, clean running water to do so. And

494
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: so with all of these people at risk right now,

495
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: the WHO is working on trying to ensure that governments

496
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: in the developing world who don't have the kinds of

497
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: cushions that we have. And we've seen our challenges managing

498
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: our response, but who don't have stimulus packages or two

499
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: trillion dollar bailouts coming, impoverished communities, vulnerable communities, refugees, the

500
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: who is out there and trying to offer technical advice

501
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: as to how those communities can withstand what is about

502
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: to hit them. And this will just mean that the

503
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: w shows it's dead, scrambling to figure out how it

504
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: feels the gap that that Trump is leaving, but also

505
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: how it mobilizes the new funds. It needs to really

506
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: ramp up those efforts. And that's where you make a

507
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: very important point. You talked about able to wash your hands,

508
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: basic hygiene. You wrote in The New York Times recently

509
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: about this great disparity not just in the ratio of

510
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: doctors to populace, but also, as you say, a lot

511
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: of people around the world came to wash their hands.

512
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: So as much as we struggle with this crisis the

513
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: United States, how much worse is it going to be

514
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: in a lot of the lower income countries. It's going

515
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: to be devastating. I think on both axes that we're

516
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: experiencing right first in terms of the lesality and the

517
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: contagiousness of the epidemic itself because of close overcrowding and

518
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: the close quarters in which people in poor communities often live,

519
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: the ability to practice the kind of social distancing that

520
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: we are managing if we're lucky in in our some

521
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: of our neighborhoods in the United States, I mean that

522
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: that ability is not there. And so when one individual

523
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: brings the virus home, it's likely not only to infect

524
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: whole families, but um potentially whole neighborhoods um or at

525
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: least whole city city blocks or slum blocks. Um. So

526
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: if you think about refugee camps in it lib or

527
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: in southern Turkey for that matter, as you think about

528
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: the Rehana refugee camps in Bangladesh, but even if you

529
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: think of the favelas in Brazil, or the slums of

530
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: informal settlements in South Africa or in India, I mean,

531
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: it is just going to race through those communities and

532
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: so and then part of that health uh concern and

533
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: the sort of ravaging of the virus concern is that

534
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: the health facilities to manage the spread, to get people

535
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: in early, to hydrate them, uh, you know, to put

536
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: them on vent laters. I mean, these these communities don't

537
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: have ventilators. If we if we had trouble, you know,

538
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: getting mass uh and ppe for our health workers. You

539
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: can imagine what a refugee camp is going to be experiencing.

540
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: So that's in the health doll main what the virus does,

541
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: and how much more contagious and more deadly it can

542
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: be because of the absence of proper health care. Then

543
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: you combine that david with the economic toll, and we're

544
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: experiencing that here. That's why so many Americans need desperately

545
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: checks because they don't have another source of income having

546
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: been laid off. They have their families to feed, they

547
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: have insulin that they have to buy for their diabetic children.

548
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's in a developed country like this one.

549
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: And we have had the stimulus package passed and maybe

550
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: there'll be more to follow. When that economic livelihood is

551
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: taken away for families that are living hand to mouth

552
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: in those loans or who are dependent on international aid

553
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: that has now dried up because it's being diverted to

554
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: domestic response, you can imagine even the risk not only

555
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: of the nutrition, but of out like starvation. That was

556
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: former UN Abassador Samantha Power that does it for Wall

557
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Street Week this week, I'm David Weston. See you next time.

558
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: H