WEBVTT - Holly Frey 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:22.239 Hi, Welcome to Access Podcast, the podcast about podcast. I'm 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.119 Mattie Stout and I was lucky enough to get to 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.520 do a live show in Boston with one of my 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.200 favorite podcasters, Holly Fry, from one of the most popular 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.400 podcasts in the world, Stuff You Missed in History Class Now. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.720 We recorded this at the Revere Hotel in Boston and 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.519 had an amazing time in front of a live audience. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.120 Holly is not only the host of that show, but 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.120 she writes an acts as executive producer on several podcasts 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.320 for How Stuff Works. During this conversation, we talked about history, podcasting, 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.479 Star Wars, and a whole lot more, and don't forget 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.880 After the conversation, producer Morgan will be in and we 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.600 will be telling you about three podcasts that you should binge. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.120 But right now, let's check out a clip from Stuff 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.520 You Missed in History Class. The early Bourbon rule in 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.800 Spain is one that I find fascinating because it's often 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.240 boiled down to a little bit of a degree of 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.480 sensationalism owing to the sexual appetites of some of the 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.000 Bourbons and how much people like to write about that. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.480 But of course there's a whole lot more to the 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.000 whole thing than that, and it isn't a very important 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.479 family line. Holly, thanks for coming on Access podcast live 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:36.960 from Boston. Did you just say wicked? Pista? Nice? Nice? 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.440 I love Boston. So for folks listening at home, Holly 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.080 and I are in Boston and we are part of 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:48.680 a panel discussion today about podcasting. Yeah, which we both do, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.440 We both do. I want to start with that. You know, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.600 we get a lot of questions about podcasting, and you know, 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.680 it's for us, we've been doing it for a while, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.640 it's still a new medium for a lot of folks. 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.400 What are some of the most common things that you 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:06.400 get asked consistently about being a podcaster and podcasting. I 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.200 get asked all the time. If we write our own show, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.640 I get asked if my assistance could maybe talk to somebody, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.160 And then I laugh and laugh and laugh. I always 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.200 crack up when I'm listening to other podcasts and at 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:19.840 the end they run through their credits and they're like, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.880 and this person touched the microphones and this person and 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.000 it's like, it's me and Tracy and one person who 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.040 records us, and that's all that's ever been. We get 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.799 asked a lot about just start of the technical aspects, 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.200 you know, what they need to set up. Our previous producer, Noel, 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.200 actually put together like a really quick word document that 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.520 we could hand out to people that has kind of 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.040 a basic information and and Mike's you can use, etcetera 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.519 that I sometimes hand out. It's a little outdated now, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.519 otherwise I would offer it to everyone again, it needs 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.640 a little update. Those are probably the big ones. So 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.280 you just came back from Ireland. I did, and we 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.000 were at dinner last night and You're telling me about 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.640 your trip, and I'm just sitting there thinking when you 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.360 started in this business, did you ever imagine that you 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:02.760 would get to do the kind of things that you 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.400 get to do now because of being a podcaster. No 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:07.960 I feel like the most spoiled child in the universe 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.960 almost every day. My trip to Ireland was kind of 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.760 a two parter um. There is a travel show that 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.560 we're working on developing, and so we were there for 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.600 that for part of it, and for the other it 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.519 was for my hobby podcast Full of sixth which is 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.359 a Star Wars podcast, and Tourism Ireland asked if we 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.160 wanted to come over and tour filming sites that have 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.560 been used in the recent Star Wars films. So yeah, 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.760 I mean, just again, I feel like the luckiest, most 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.560 ridiculously undeserving. No one could deserve all the fun that 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.800 we get to have. So talk about how you got 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.920 started in podcasting, because I think we're getting to a 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.400 point where there actually will be young people who are 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.880 like my dream is to be in podcasting. But for 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.280 those of us who were not under the age of 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.440 twenty five, it wasn't. It wasn't an option when we 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.360 got out of college. How did it end up in it? 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.000 It was not a job that I ever knew I 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.800 would have. My background is in my degrees in theater 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.680 and film study, so there's a performative element to my 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.720 background anyway. But I also have a writing degree, and 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.640 so I had gotten hired at How Stuff Works to 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.680 copy edit. I was the tech editor, so when when 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.520 new Apple products came out, we would have a writer 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.719 write an article and I would then edit it and 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.680 then get it published. And I did that for a 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.080 long time. I had actually only been at the company 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.920 I think about eight months when Tracy, who is my 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.800 co host on Stuff You Missed in History class, and 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.479 I were at a party at work a work event 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.640 being kind of snarky because that's something we're excellent at. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.680 And our boss overheard us, and the next morning he 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.400 called us in his office and said, I think maybe 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.320 you guys should have a podcast, And we started off 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.080 of the podcast about pop culture called pop Stuff, which 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.400 had a very dedicated following, but it wasn't like a 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.800 particularly huge numbers thing. It went on for a while, 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.039 and then around the same time, the people who had 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.279 been hosting Stuff you missed in history class because it 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.880 existed before we were part of it, one had gone 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.040 on maternity leave and I had subbed in for her 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.240 during that time, and then after she came back, she 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.400 got the opportunity to take another really great job that 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.080 was going to be a great step for her, and 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:08.920 so she took it. And at the same time, her 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:10.960 co host was kind of like, you know, this podcast 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.440 is She literally was like, this is a bear. It's exhausting. 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.160 Our show is a little more labor intensive than some 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.640 others because there's so much research involved. We do about 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.520 twenty four hours of solid research and writing before we 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.360 ever get in front of a mic. And when that's 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.040 your side job in addition to your regular workload. That's 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:28.800 a lot, and so it can wear you out in 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.560 a hurry, and so they were ready to step away, 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.479 and we ended up taking over stuff you missed in 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.440 history class for that reason, and then we sunsetted pop 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.240 stuff and it's dominated my life ever since. You're just 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.560 talking about the process for your show, and I think 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.279 that I want to talk more about that because when 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.320 we're doing it right, When a podcast is done right, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.680 it does sound effortless and it sounds like just two 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.360 people talking and it sounds like, wow, they are just 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.000 off the cuff. No so much. No, I know that's 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.880 not true, but how you know, go through that proce 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.200 sess of you know, when you have an idea for 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.760 something for the show and then to the point where 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.719 somebody hears it. Yeah, so for us, because it is 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.839 a history podcast, and I mentioned earlier during our panel discussion, 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.920 I have a list of like seven d possible topics 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:14.839 I can turn to you. But really it's just a 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.640 matter of finding something that sparks your interest that you 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.440 know you're going to be willing to spend a week 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.080 with because it is a pretty intensive week of research 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.520 and looking around and kind of beating the bushes to 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.360 find information that maybe hasn't been brought to light before. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.279 And then once we find that topic, I have a 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.120 little bit more I think, chaotic approach to it than Tracy. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.080 She's super organized, and I kind of like to take 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.160 in as much information as quickly as I can. So 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.080 what I do is I find one really good article 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.480 on it, usually like somewhere like Smithsonian or some article 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.760 in a specific journal on j Store, and I just 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.800 read it and get a sense of the topic. And 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:52.719 then I write out bullets of like things that I 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.239 think cannot be left out, and then I just start 0:06:55.279 --> 0:07:01.240 like an insane search. I go to the library. I know, um, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.479 I actually worked in library science for a decade, so 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.000 I still really libraries are near and dear to my heart. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.479 I will go to the library. I will do online searches. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.200 I often have, like no joke, a hundred plus tabs 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:12.960 open in my browser just to make our I t 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.440 guy go insane. And then as i'm as I'm kind 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.600 of peeling away those layers of research, I'll be closing 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.320 my tabs out. And that's kind of how I gauge 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.160 where I'm at in the process of preparation. I'm like, oh, look, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.080 I'm down to thirty tabs. I'm almost done. I could 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.480 take a break and watch some garbage television, and then 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.840 once we get that all written out, Tracy and I 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:32.600 hand those off to each other. We each take the 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.600 lead on one of the episodes per week, because it 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.520 is essentially to research papers a week that we're writing, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.840 and then we look over those and then we run 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.600 in the studio and talk talk talk. Speaking of talking, 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.200 you're somebody from the first time I met I've always 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.360 enjoyed talking to and I think it's a lot of 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.440 our white trash heritage that we have in common. But 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.080 in general, with people in podcasting, they have to be 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.120 engaging storytellers. Ideally, Yeah, so I'm just you know, I 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.840 want to speak to that. As far as what you 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.080 think takes um goes into someone being a good storyteller 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.720 and engaging for a listener to to have that experience 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.360 where they feel like they're their friend. This may sound weird, 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.560 but part of it for me is trusting your own gut. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.240 Like when I'm looking at a topic, whether it is 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.440 for my history podcast or like one of my side 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.880 hobby ones, the thing that one little detail that gets 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.320 me excited or makes me go, oh, I didn't know that. 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.600 That's like the thing that you need to find the 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.120 space for in your narrative. And if you can find 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.760 several of those on any one topic, you end up 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.920 it comes together like a puzzle really beautifully. Usually like 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.559 you'll see how the picture kind of starts to form 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.400 and congeal and become clearer and sharper as you go. Uh. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.440 And so I think it as long as you're looking 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.960 for in your prep those moments that get you excited, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.520 that's what your audience is also going to get excited about. 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.000 I'm a firm believer that podcasting makes people smarter. When 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.839 I look at my college students, sometimes I scratch my 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:01.600 head and wonder what's going to happen to the world 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.800 until I find out how engaged they are with podcasts 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.640 and that they're listening and they're being educated. And I 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.720 do feel that it. Podcasting is a good force in 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.439 the universe. Do you get a lot of feedback from 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.200 listeners that they've learned, you know, things from you that 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.040 have really benefit them in their lives. My one of 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.280 my favorite things that we hear from listeners a lot 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:23.560 is that they heard something on our show that made 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.600 them want to travel somewhere and they'll send us a 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.760 postcard from that place and be like, remember when you 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:29.960 talked about this person that did this thing here, I'm here, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.680 I'm standing where they lived. Um, And it makes one. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.720 I love it because it makes history alive and it 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:39.520 reminds us all that history is the product of people. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.839 It's it's people living in experiencing life and doing things. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.360 And it's not always people that were in seats of government, 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.200 and it's not always people that were famous, but there 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.240 were people, just as every one of us in this 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.920 room is making history today in a certain way. Every 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.839 day you walk down the street, you're making some history. 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.559 And so for people to be able to connect those 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.040 dots and be like, I'm standing on this place where 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:02.800 you know this woman did this thing that I never 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.080 knew about until I heard it from you, and now 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.079 they wanted to make their own little pilgrimage because it 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.400 spoke to them. That's like, to me, incredibly moving. So 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.760 the flip side of that, I'm sure you have some 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.760 very uptight, finicky listeners as well. Oh yeah, what are 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.320 what are some of the fun complaints that you guys 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.440 get about the show, and how often are you called 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.319 out for something that maybe you missed or I doubt 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.160 you ever have, but oh, sure we missed stuff. Pronunciation 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:33.680 is I was the thing that people like to write 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.040 us about, either because there's a local way to pronounce 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.720 a word that we didn't know, or we don't speak 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.199 every language on earth, and so sometimes like there are 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.600 are subtle shifts in the way words are spoken in 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.160 other cultures that because we didn't grow up speaking then 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.760 we just can't even replicate those noises. But I mean, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.160 I always warn people when they want to get into podcasting, 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.400 be ready, especially if you're a woman. You will get 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.599 the weirdest complaints. We have a person who pretty consistently 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.280 writes to us about the way we say the word 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:07.079 the I'm not kidding, um, that person has some time, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.959 I'm presuming, and it's one of those things where I 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.760 could get upset about it, or I could just be like, 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.680 I can't help you, like at the end of the day, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.360 like I speak how I speak, and and that's what 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.280 it is. There are people that love my laugh on 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.839 our show, and there are people that hate my laugh 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.120 on our show, and it's my honest laugh. And I 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.040 can't change it because then it becomes a very disingenuous 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.360 thing that I'm doing, and that, as we said, is 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.400 poison in a podcast to be disingenuous. They're definitely people 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.520 who wish we would talk less about women. It's one 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.600 of those things whenever I'm explaining our show to someone 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.400 and they go, what is that? And I'm like, hey, 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.680 did you know that there were women in history? Always 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.560 because you might not know if you picked up a 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.959 history book. There were always people of color, There are 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.720 always people all over the gender spectrum. There were always 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.480 people who were upstarts, and those aren't always the people 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.760 that get light shown on them. Um. And so that's 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.160 kind of what we try to do. And there are 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.840 people that do not like that all the time, and 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.400 that's fine, fine, fine, but maybe we're not the show 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.559 for them. Yeah, I think I'm now I'm listening to 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.240 hear you say the word I know, right, I think 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.200 in that In that case, it was one of those 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.439 instances where I had said, for emphasis something like this 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.640 is the most important thing, and she was like, that's 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.120 the incorrect use of the and I'm like, okay, suck 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.640 it all right, That's what I say to those listens. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.880 I mean, they're certainly entitled to their opinion. It's one 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.120 of those things you can either get really upset about 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.320 it or just if it's a legitimate error that we made, 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.280 we always want to correct it. Will usually include that 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.880 in a listener mail, like if we got something factually incorrect, 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.520 which just come up not too often I'm thankful for, 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.199 but once in a while it's just going to happen. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.000 But if it's something like that, again, I can't help 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.760 that person. The fun stuff history, Yeah, you get to 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.240 talk about so many great times, period themes in history. 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.520 Do you have a favorite and do you have a 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.760 heart of that you kind of wish you didn't have 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.480 to talk about so much? Um yes to all of 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.920 the above. I have a weird weakness for Queen Victoria. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.760 Uh super complicated rain that a whole imperialism problem is real, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.839 But as a person she was super fascinating and if 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.080 you read her letters to her eldest daughter Vicky, it 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.680 peels back all of what you may think we think 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:20.800 of her as that very like we are not amused 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.400 um stoic, But she was wildly funny and had hilarious 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.400 things to say about you know, the fact that even 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:32.559 though she was the queen of a vast, vast range 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.679 of places, by that point, like when she talks about 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.880 pregnancy and rearing children, all of that falls away, and 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.120 she's very blunt and honest with her kids about what 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.480 they can expect from motherhood and how it is not 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.560 always a lovely experience, and how she thought babies were 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.640 hideously ugly, but she she just couldn't keep her hands 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.760 off albert Say, she kept getting pregnant. Like those are 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.720 all very, very funny, I'm not kidding, Like there's some 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.000 she was deeply into albert Um, which is really great, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.040 and it's a part of her don't always hear about. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.760 And so I love that um. I also love eighteenth 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.920 century France a lot. I just it's largely a visual 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.360 thing I like talking about also just things that have 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.240 impacted me in my life. We did a two parter 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.160 on Chaz Adams, who is one of my favorite cartoonists. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.480 The Adams Family is his work, uh, and he was 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.800 a fascinating man and just live this sort of fantastic, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.120 slightly wild life of like the the aeradite New Yorker 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.320 in the forties and fifties, and I mean had an 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.520 affair with Jackie Onassis and like this incredible life that 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.120 people again don't always associate with a man who made 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.920 these incredibly spooky characters that we all came to love. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.000 I'm gonna tell you guys a secret. I don't really 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.640 care for medieval history. I know a lot of people 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.360 love it, and it's not I recognize it as important 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.240 and I will never not do an episode on it 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.600 because of that, but it's just not my jam. Is 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.400 not my jams, not my jam. I'm not as enthused 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.760 about the clothing of that era. I'm like, oh, a 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.880 little money in plane. Can we go back Rococo France? 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.560 Because that was a fancy Yeah, so I do much 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:08.600 plague right, Although we have done a number of episodes 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.960 on anchor rights and anchoresses of the medieval period and 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.680 they're fascinating. So those were people that decided that they 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.240 would live in This is a very simplified version. There's 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.800 a lot more variation and subtlety, but like live in 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.120 a room and think about man's relationship with God. They 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:27.880 would be in like a small little room that was 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.960 often like an add on Galen too, are an adjacent 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.320 to a church and they would have like a window 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.320 that people could pass their needs back and forth through, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.760 but they would write about their religious experience, and often 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.160 they had visions, and those are pretty fascinating. That's the 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.440 really fun part of the medieval era for me. You 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.280 also have a passion for Star Wars. That is rabbit, rabbit, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:50.800 I think I like Star Wars, and I think I 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.600 know something about Star Wars. You talk to Holly for 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.400 five minutes and you realize you know nothing. Snow across 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.800 my reference, across the streams, the nerds, and back and going, yeah, 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.640 cross him, there we go. I want to talk about 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.200 that in your other podcast or side podcast as you 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.240 call it, and just how how did you get so 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.080 fully enveloped in the Star Wars world? Do you mean 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:14.680 how did I fall in love with it? Or how 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.240 did I become part of that community? How did you 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.120 become part of that community in such a big way. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.080 I have been around long enough that I was there 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.960 when it all started. So the first Star Wars film 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.800 came out on my sixth birthday, I was foolhardy enough 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:28.680 to think my parents had had it made for me 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.000 um and that like they were just letting other people 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.760 watch and so, and of course, like every child that 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.400 sees Star Wars for the first time, I just blew 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.400 my brain open and and I just was in love. Um. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.720 I have a really ridiculous love of Grido. He's my 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.440 Space bff. And then there was this dark period between 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.240 those films and the prequels where there were all these 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.560 people that loved Star Wars but didn't know how to 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.520 find one another, and thankfully for the Internet, to the Internet, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.880 we did um. And then when the prequel started coming out, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.440 I ended up on a message board called the Force 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.639 dot Net, which continues in in various iterations, and I 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.680 ended up moderating their costuming section. And that's really how 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.560 I started getting involved in the bigger community. And from 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.159 then it just like I still have the same friends 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.320 I have from that message board twenty years ago. My 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.880 my best friend on Earth I met through that, and 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.280 she met her husband on the same message board. Like 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.240 it's a really special thing. I think when you love 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.879 something with that level of rabies and you haven't found 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.120 your tribe and then you suddenly find them online, it's 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.520 it's like the It's like drinking water when you've been 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.560 walking the desert for days and if you have a 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.720 George Lucas story I want to tell. But I want 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.840 to if you've met George and what has your interaction 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.520 been with him. I haven't met him. My co host 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.399 on Phil of Sith, Brian Young has, and he's you know, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.480 busy in Chicago being a dad again and just hanging 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.679 out and making you know, he's still making films just 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.080 for himself that will never be shown. He's going the 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.760 Prince route, which is fascinating to me. Yeah. So, I mean, 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.600 I know a lot of people at lucasvillem I wrote 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.879 briefly star Wars dot Com like a decade ago, so 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.520 I still have a lot of friends there. Yeah. I mean, 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.960 I if you ever get the chance to tour Lucasfilm, 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.120 do it because it's magical. So it was in San 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.119 Francisco and I used to do a radio show in 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.119 San Francisco. Um and his daughter listened to our show. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.480 So Katie, Katie, so I got. I took Katie to 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.320 meet Alana's Morrisset. She was in concert, and backstage there 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.520 is George and it's just the two of us in 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.640 a room for like twenty minutes, and I tell him 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:30.880 the story of you know, when I was a kid, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:32.800 my mom saved money to take us to Star Wars. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:34.560 We didn't have any money. Was it was a big deal. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:36.560 And then when the last movie came out, I was 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.359 actually watched it at the ranch. They had a press event, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.040 and I called my mom and we cried on the 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.840 phone because it was like, Oh, you made it, we 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:44.320 made it, you know, this kind of thing. And I 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.440 tell George the story and I'm so excited, and I 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.760 think he's just gonna be blown away by it. And 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.600 I have four pictures on my wall and all of 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.159 them are George Lucas looking at me and rolling his 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.200 eyes like that. Man has to hear so many stories 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.879 like that because people are so you know, they have 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.359 these these there's so much of an attachment to his 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.000 work that he gets a million you know, people like 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.080 me a day walking up and telling him how life 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.720 changing he was. Oh yeah, I mean, he has the unfortunate, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.280 um luck of being an introvert that created something that 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.520