1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Drill. I'm Amy Westervelt. Today we continue 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: our series on the criminalization of environmental protest, the real 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: free speech threat. In this episode, we head to Australia 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: with reporter Lyndall Rollins, who's been reporting on how anti 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: protest laws swept Australia. Australia is a unique context for 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: a few different reasons. It's a major fossil fuel economy, 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: parterially with coal and now with gas. It's also a 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: place where the media is heavily influenced by industry money, 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: thanks in large part to the fact that Rupert Murdoch 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: owns a large percentage of it. And it's a place 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: where people voted last year overwhelmingly for a government that 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: would do something about climate. It's really interesting to examine 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: the criminalization trend in that context, and Lyndall's done some 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: excellent reporting on that front over the last year. Here 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: she is with that story. 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: That's the sound of an activist at the Art Gallery 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: of Western Australia spray painting and artwork with the logo 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: of fossil fuel giant woodside. The painting was protected by 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: clear plastic, unlike the Indigenous rocket threatened by Woodsides activities barely. 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 3: One hundred years old. 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 4: We have five fifty thousand year old art loot that 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 4: Woodside is destroyed. 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: That's Speladong nungar Man Desmond Blatin. This is big. 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: I play my respects for my honors and my ancestors. 25 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 4: As I stand here today, I am artwork that a 26 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: sacred to our people is being destroyed. 27 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: He's explaining how Woodside's plans to expand its sparrop gas 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: project at Murdruga could see ancient paintings that have survived 29 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: tens of thousands of years disappear. 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 4: Onside Patrol is the largest fossil fuel project in Australia. 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 4: They are destroying ancient burg of the RockA. We demand. 32 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 5: No industry on the bar. 33 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 4: We must protect our cultural heritage an artwork. 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 2: Now, by expanding the Borough Gas project with junior gas 35 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: fields at Brows and Scarborough, Woodside is planning to emit 36 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: an estimated six billion tons of carbon dioxide emissions. Analysis 37 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: from climate advocacy group Clean State says this would make 38 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: the Borough Hub Australia's most polluting fossil fuel project ever. 39 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: After a recent merger with mining giant PHP, Woodside is 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: now the biggest fossil fuel company in Australia. 41 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 6: Now this merger has expanded our portfolio and extended our 42 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 6: global reach, including a significant office in Houston, but Woodside 43 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 6: remains a proudly Australian company. 44 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: That's Meg O'Neil. She's the CEO of Woodside and she 45 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: was addressing the National Press Club of Australia earlier this year. Yes, 46 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: she has an American accent. 47 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 7: Our guest today is Mego O'Neil. 48 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 8: Before she joined Woodside, make's career took her around the 49 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 8: globe as head of EXAM Mobile in Africa, and. 50 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: Neil previously worked for ex and Mobile in Norway and 51 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: Canada before becoming its Vice President of African Development. She 52 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: used her speech to outline how Woodside plans to continue 53 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: expanding fossil fuel projects in Australia. 54 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 6: We want to develop new projects in Australia across both 55 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 6: hydrocarbons and new energy opportunities, but that will only be 56 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 6: possible if the policy settings provide the certainty to underpin 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 6: those long term investments. 58 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: Although O'Neil used her speech to argue the Australian government 59 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: should allow Woodside to build new projects with billions of 60 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: tons of carbon emissions. Is in'neil's comments on environmental activists 61 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: that attracted national headlines. 62 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 6: A vocal minority wants to shut down the industry and 63 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 6: the jobs and livelihoods that go with it. They have 64 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 6: deep pockets and are using both protest action and the 65 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 6: courts to create uncertainty and destabilize regulatory processes to frustrate 66 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 6: both existing and new projects. 67 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 2: O'Neil didn't provide any information to back up her claims 68 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: that environmental activists in Australia have deep pockets, that they 69 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: represent the views of a minority, or that their activism 70 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: is somehow extremist. 71 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 6: We certainly respect every Australian's right to express their opinion, 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 6: and we absolutely share the commitment to decarbonization, but extremism 73 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 6: is not the answer. 74 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: Yet, despite the apparently fairly significant implications of calling people extremist, 75 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: journalists at the National Press Club also didn't probe what 76 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: had prompted O'Neil to reach this conclusion. Floods and fires 77 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: are getting worse in Australia, so it might sound strange 78 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: that in the few short years since millions of people 79 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: were breathing in bushwire smoke. One by one, the states 80 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: around the country have been banning climate change protests. My 81 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: name is Lindall Rowlins, and as you'll hear in this 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: special series of Drilled, shifting the blame to environmental activists 83 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: is another tactic the fossil fuel industry uses to delay 84 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: climate action, and in Australia it's been working. But while 85 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: it's important to report and why environmental activists in Australia 86 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 2: have increasingly been experiencing fines, prison sentences, surveillance and negative 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: media coverage, it's also important to note that this all 88 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 2: helps to create a distraction from climate change itself and 89 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: what we need to do about it. So before we 90 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: dig into that story, I want to take you to 91 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: a meeting organized by activists trying to save an old 92 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: growth forest in my home state of Victoria. We'll head 93 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: there after this quick break. 94 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: Given these refuges higher elevation status, it may be one 95 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: of the final places where species are able to survive 96 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: in a warming climate, so it's very, very important. 97 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: I'm at a meeting organized by activists who've spent the 98 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: last few decades trying to save old growth forests in Australia. 99 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: They're particularly focused on the Erinundra forest in southeastern Australia. 100 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 9: Can the people who were part of that event Aeronunja 101 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 9: blockade stand. 102 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: Up if you're in the room, I know there's a 103 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: few of you in here. 104 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: Decades after their protests helped to save parts of this forests, 105 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: it's now facing new threats. 106 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: Can anyone who has done sturve am who threatens species 107 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: in logging coops please stand up as well and. 108 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 2: Stay standing Toughy Morovitz is welcoming people to the meeting 109 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: and explaining why we're here. 110 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 10: You can be. 111 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 9: Antique protest laws coming through in May. These people may 112 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 9: potentially face a year imprisonment or twenty one thousand dollars quarants. 113 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: You can stand down. 114 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 9: Now, sit down down. 115 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: Three years ago, fires tour through parts of the forest 116 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: that had previously been saved from logging. 117 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 9: The forest faces impossible challenges with logging and climate change, 118 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 9: as we saw with the blockade up with the Aeronandra plateau. 119 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 9: Protest remains a critical tool to prevent immediate and irreversible harm. 120 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 5: One there's one to knowledge the son people of this country. 121 00:07:54,080 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 5: Good words we should general. 122 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: So on a. 123 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 10: Jager Corman a. 124 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Nation that's Madri Thorpe. Her traditional gun at Kerne lands 125 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: include forests full of old greath trees and animals and 126 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: birds that aren't found anywhere else on Earth. 127 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 11: Sci working with and learning from who are wandering the 128 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 11: forest for. 129 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: Thorpe has been working with volunteer citizen scientists to monitor 130 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: animals in the forests, activities that now could face fines 131 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: of twenty one thousand dollars and up to a year 132 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: in jail under new Victorian laws specifically banning them from 133 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: entering parts of the forest. 134 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 5: There's no saying in those forests, there's no insects, there's 135 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 5: no small animals around. 136 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: Although she now lives by the forest, Thorpe is no 137 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: stranger to fossil fuels. Your lawn, the town where she 138 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: was born no longer exists. It was dug up for 139 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: coal not long after it was built. 140 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 5: I was born in the light town of your and 141 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 5: come home every day from work you shauls to sweep 142 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 5: out the hole from the houses in the roofs. He 143 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 5: died of sixty nine as a result of your health issue. 144 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: Meg O'Neill, the CEO of Woodside, who makes more than 145 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: four million dollars a year running a multi billion dollar 146 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 2: company claims that environmental activists in Australia have deep pockets. 147 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: But here Thorpe is talking to volunteers about ruffling off 148 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: a chicken or two at the pub to help get 149 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: the word out. 150 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 12: So somehow, you know, go back to trip graffles or 151 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 12: whatever you have to do to raise money, but never 152 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 12: let money stand in your way of doing something. 153 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: Sending volunteers who work with the colleges to get native 154 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: animals to prison may seem like a strange priority, but 155 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: the new state law is only one part of a 156 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: wider response to environmental activism in Australia that started escalating 157 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: while the country was still on fire. Heavy fines for 158 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: activists who enter forests in Victoria aren't the only steep 159 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: new penalties introduced by state governments in Australia in recent years. 160 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: And let's got as Brisbane and protesters there could soon 161 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: be thrown into jail. 162 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 10: Protesters in Tasmania now face a year in jail. 163 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 7: In New South Wales it's two. 164 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 13: Years massive new penalties for blocking roads during a demonstration. 165 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, protests against a coal mine in the 166 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: Australian state of Queensland were making international headlines. Indian billionaire 167 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: Gortam Adani was planning to build a coal mine in 168 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: Queensland's Galilee Basin and a train line to the city 169 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: of Makaia, where the coal would be shipped out past 170 00:10:53,920 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 2: the Great Barrier reef protests against the mine and even 171 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: spread to India, where activists were accused of being under 172 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: foreign influence for speaking up against an Indian company. At 173 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: the same time, A Dani, a multinational Indian company, was 174 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: not shy about lobby and governments in Australia to cut 175 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 2: off Stop a Dani activist funding activists with the Stop 176 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 2: a Dani movement tried to stop the train line from 177 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: being built by chaining themselves to the tracks. In response, 178 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: the Queensland Resources Council, a local industry trade group, backed 179 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 2: new legislation called the Dangerous Attachment Devices Law. DELA claimed 180 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: that the various types of chains, glue and locks activists 181 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: had been using to attach themselves to mining equipment, roads 182 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: and bridges were dangerous to both first responders and the 183 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,599 Speaker 2: activists themselves. It gave police not only the right to 184 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: impose heavy fines and sentences on protesters arrested with these devices, 185 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: but also to stop and search anyone suspected of having 186 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: an attachment device on them without a war. The new 187 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: powers alarmed you and human rights experts who put out 188 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: a statement describing them as inherently disproportionate, But the Queensland 189 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: Resources Council argued the laud didn't go far enough, and 190 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: Scott Morrison, who was the Prime Minister of Australia at 191 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: the time, was happy to lend his voice to that campaign. 192 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 13: A new breed of radical activism is on the march 193 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 13: apocalyptic in Tone Brooks. No compromise, all or nothing, alternative 194 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 13: views not permitted. 195 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 14: We know that the Queensland Resources Council, for instance, were 196 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 14: very involved and supportive of their legislation in Queensland. We 197 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 14: know that at the time Morrison got up and spoke 198 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 14: to that organization and that's where you can see these 199 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 14: linkages happening. 200 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: This has Vanessa Boden, a sociologist at the University of Newcastle. 201 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 14: As you see industry talk about how important it is 202 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 14: to the economy and then representatives of government sort of 203 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 14: get up and say that back to industry. 204 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: But politicians, companies and industry bodies aren't the only ones 205 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: recycling talking points about climate activism from country to country. 206 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: In Australia, as in many of the countries we're visiting 207 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: in this special Drilled series, right wing think tanks also 208 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: do a lot of that work. 209 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: That's particularly true. 210 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: Of the members of a global network of libertarian think 211 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 2: tanks called the Atlas Network. You'll hear a lot more 212 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: about them next week, but for now it's important to 213 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: understand that the Atlass Network grew out of a think 214 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 2: tank called the Institute for Economic Affairs, started in the 215 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies in the UK by a guy called Anthony Fisher. 216 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,359 Speaker 2: Fisher and the IEA accredited with spreading the conservative ideology 217 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 2: known as Thatcherism in the UK, and on the back 218 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: of that success, Fisher went around the world studying copycat 219 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: think tanks. Australia was one of his first stops. 220 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 7: It was Fisher that really did the work of galvanizing, 221 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 7: you know a capitalists to the cause of the need 222 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 7: to have a new institute in Australia like the Ia. 223 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: That's Jeremy Walker, a researcher and lecturer at the University 224 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: of Technology in Sydney and one of the world's leading 225 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: experts on the Outlass network. 226 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 7: It was called the Center of Independent Studies and the 227 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 7: founding brands for that came from the Murdoch Press, from 228 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 7: Shell EhP Rio tinto ex On. 229 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: Later on, after the Center for Independent Studies, half a 230 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: dozen more conservative think tanks joined the Atlass network in Australia. 231 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: These think tanks also provide a ready supply of commentators 232 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: for Rupert Murdoch's Sky News Australia, where they regularly joined 233 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: the hosts in villifying climate protesters. Here's Bella Debrera, She's 234 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: a researcher from one of these think tanks, the Institute 235 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: for Public Affairs or IPA, on Sky News Australia talking 236 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: about an educational climate book she says was designed to 237 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: terrify children. 238 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 8: Everything from there, you know, from the minute that they 239 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 8: get up in the morning to the minute they go 240 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 8: to bed, is all about worrying about the fact that 241 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 8: we're going to have an apocalypse. 242 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: In another appearance on Sky News, she mockingly called Greta 243 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: Tomberg a saint, before going on to describe climate activism 244 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: as child abuse. 245 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 8: Very surprising that Saint Greta is appearing on the front 246 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 8: of the Legal Studies textbook I mean, climate change is 247 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 8: one of the main religious tenants taught in schools these days, 248 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 8: and we've talked about on your show before. You know, 249 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 8: the climate change marches the sort of the terror that 250 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 8: they're that they're filling children with, which is which is 251 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 8: akin to sort of child abuse, really, isn't it. 252 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: Writing think tanks and public relation firms have been accusing 253 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: environmental activists of extremism since at least the nineteen eighties. 254 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: The characterization has become so common that it's even been 255 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: questioned by UN Sexuary General Antonio Guterres. 256 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 15: Climate activists are sometimes depicted as dangerous radicals, but the 257 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 15: truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the 258 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 15: production of fossil fools. Investing in new fossil full lips 259 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 15: of structure is moral and economic madness. 260 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: Cauterist says, building new fossil fuel infrastructure in twenty twenty 261 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: three is moral and economic madness. Meanwhile, as we heard 262 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: at the beginning of this episode, Woodside's Boroughpub glass project 263 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: will not only omit billions of cubic tons of carbon dioxide, 264 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: it will also potentially engage irreplaceable indigenous rock art. The 265 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: gallery protests made international headlines, but activists have been protesting 266 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: against the Boroughpub for years, and during that time they've 267 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: also been followed around by Western Australia's counter terrorism Police. 268 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: Counter Terrorism police regularly read the homes and officers of 269 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: disrupt Borough Hub activists, as well as journalists who covered 270 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: the protests. During the raids, the counter terror police spend 271 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: hours combing through computers, phones and other personal belongings. All 272 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: this surveillance explains why the disrupt Borough Phub activists who 273 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: went to the beachside home of Woodside CEO Meg O'Neil 274 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: in August this year say that counter terrorism police were 275 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: already inside before the activists arrived. 276 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 16: I never set foot on the property of Woodside CEO 277 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 16: mago Neil, but was ambushed by Wilman a dozen counter 278 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 16: terror police lying away from me. 279 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: That was Matilda Lane Rose. She's nineteen years old and 280 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: one of four disrupt Boroughhub activists arrested outside O'Neill's home. 281 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 16: No one was ever in any danger because of this protest, 282 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 16: and there was no possibility of anyone entering the house 283 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 16: of the Woodside CEO except for does encounters terror police 284 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 16: already inside the property. WA Police and the WA government 285 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 16: are doing anything they can to stop this campaign communicating 286 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 16: because we're getting the message out about the Barrett Hub 287 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 16: I was doing a money good job of it, thank you. 288 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: Four activists were charged with conspiracy to commit an indictable efense. 289 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: Remember how earlier we heard O'Neill describing environmental activism as 290 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: extremism at the National Press Club of Australia after the 291 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: protest outside her home. This same wording was repeated by 292 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: Rupert Murdocks, Sky News and the premiere of Western Australia 293 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: Roger Cook. 294 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 17: Woodside CEO. Mego O'Neil's family were terrified when climate extremists 295 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 17: targeted her home during an aggressive protest on Tuesday morning. 296 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 17: Mego O'Neil said in a statement that this was not 297 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 17: a harmless protest. Such acts by extremists should be condemned 298 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 17: by anyone who respects the law. 299 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: Yet, despite O'Neill's description of the activists as extremist being 300 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: repeated widely, accounts of what happened at O'Neill's home that 301 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: morning differ. The activists have not been charged with trespass, 302 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: only with the intent to commit an offense, and they 303 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: say that counter terrorism police were already inside when they 304 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: arrived outside O'Neill's home. O'Neill isn't just the CEO of Woodside, 305 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: she's also the chair of the Australian Petroleum Production and 306 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: Exploration Association or APR for short, an industry body whose 307 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: members include some of the biggest fossil fuel companies based 308 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: in Australia like Santos and Woodside, as well as some 309 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: of the biggest fossil fuel companies in the world like 310 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: BP Shell and O'Neill's former employer, ex and Mobile. A 311 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 2: few weeks after O'Neill's press club address, APR opened its 312 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 2: annual conference in Adelaide, South Australia, on Monday, the fifteenth 313 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: of May. The conferences two principal partners were Woodside and 314 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: ex and Mobile. On the fourth and final day of 315 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: the conference, Thursday, the a eighteenth of May, South Australia's 316 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: government suddenly rushed to introduce a new law. 317 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 14: Protesters in South Australia could face three months in jail 318 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 14: and a fifty thousand dollars fine under laws which have 319 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 14: passed the state's lower house. 320 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: Like Queensland three years earlier, South Australia's Labor government introduced 321 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: the new legislation so quickly that legal experts say they 322 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: had almost no opportunity to examine the potential human rights implications. 323 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: In this episode, we've been looking at the criminalization of 324 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: environmental protest and how it's been spreading around Australia. But 325 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: that's not the only thing that's been spreading as climate 326 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: change worsens. More and more climate change activists in Australia 327 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: are speaking from personal experience, and. 328 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 10: There was ash falling from the sky and leaves falling 329 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 10: from the sky all over Greater Sydney. 330 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: Sick smoke made outdoor protests more difficult in December twenty nineteen, 331 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: but that didn't acter student activists from gathering out. I'd 332 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: then Prime Minister Scott Morrison's official residence in Sydney. David Shubridge, 333 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: who was now a Federal Senator for the Greens, went 334 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: to the protest with his youngest daughter and was one 335 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: of the people arrested on the day. 336 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 10: After about two hours of a standoff, they just lined 337 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 10: up the riot squad and just marched them in. You know, 338 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 10: I remember them performing together. Reminded me a bunch of 339 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 10: sort of puffed up turkeys. They went and then went 340 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 10: in and surrounded all these four kids and started arresting 341 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 10: them and moving them on. 342 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: Shuebridge was previously a representative in the New South Wales 343 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: Parliament when new laws restricting protests were rushed through in 344 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. At the time, large parts of the 345 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 2: state were underwater. A group known as the Knitting Manners 346 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: have launched a constitutional challenge the laws in New South 347 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: Wales courts. After Scott Morrison's federal Liberal National Coalition lost 348 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty two election, Australia now has a federal 349 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: Labor government, which has also introduced a modest target of 350 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: reducing emissions by forty three percent by twenty thirty. In Queensland, Victoria, 351 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: Western Australia and South Australia, it's been labor state governments 352 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 2: that have criminalized environmental protests. In New South Wales, Labor 353 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 2: supported the new laws rushed through by the then Liberal 354 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 2: government on the same night that many people's homes were 355 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 2: under water. 356 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 10: There's not a lot of self awareness in the state 357 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 10: parliament about the kind of irony of putting in laws 358 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 10: to arrest people for these minor you know, relatively minor 359 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 10: inconveniences when the impacts of the climate crisis we're facing 360 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 10: are causing not inconvenience, the loss of life, substantial loss 361 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 10: of life, huge loss of property. I think the most 362 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 10: recent floods created that the single largest insurance payout ever 363 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 10: in Australia's history, billions and billions and billions of dollars. 364 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: Scientists now say that the floods the news Whales's experience 365 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: for two years after the catastrophic twenty nineteen and twenty 366 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: twenty bush fires may have been made worse when the 367 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: enormous amounts of smoke generated by those fires induced a 368 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: three year Lannina. The La Nina finally lifted in March 369 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: this year, and many Australians are now bracing for hotter, 370 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: drier conditions as summer approaches. 371 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 18: Oh High Little, Sorry to disappoint, but I won't be 372 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 18: getting to this national sustainability event because of my bail conditions. 373 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 18: They're actually zooming me in, so I'll be a big 374 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 18: face on the screen. But I hope that it works 375 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 18: out well anyway. 376 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: I'm trying to find a time to talk to environmental activists. 377 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: Violet Coco Is December twenty twenty two, and Violet is 378 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: out on bail pending an appeal of a fifteen month 379 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: prison sentence for a climate change protest that stopped car 380 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 2: on the iconic Sydney Harbor Bridge. 381 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 19: And so we're about to hit and El Nino again. 382 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 19: We're about to go back into the fire season. We've 383 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 19: just been in the web and now we're going to 384 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 19: have fires oil over the country. 385 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, Coco joined a group of activists, 386 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: including a firefighter, and shutting down a lane of traffic 387 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 2: on the bridge. 388 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 19: Now, firefighters still don't have the tools that they need 389 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 19: to protect us, and that's what I was on the 390 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 19: bridge for. I was on the bridge for our firefighters, 391 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 19: saying we need to be ordering this equipment now because 392 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 19: the fire season is coming. 393 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: She tells me she became more involved in climate activism 394 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: after previous bushfires. 395 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 19: The country was on fire and my sister was pregnant 396 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 19: at the time and she couldn't leave the house because 397 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 19: the smoke was toxic to her and the baby. 398 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: In March this year, a judge overturned Violet's fifteen month 399 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: jail sentence, but in her home state of New South Wales, 400 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: a new law that imposes up to two years prison 401 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: for stopping traffic remains in place. In the years since 402 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: the fires, there have been less major street protests against 403 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 2: climate in Australia, but activists have been organizing in new ways. 404 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: People speaking out about climate change include the former captain 405 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 2: of Australia's rugby team, who was elected as a senator 406 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: after being arrested in a climate protest. In recent years, psychologists, firefighters, veterinarians, doctors, 407 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,239 Speaker 2: and even marketing professionals have been actively organizing around their 408 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: profession's response to climate change as well. They include bushfire 409 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: survivors who successfully sued the New South Wales Environment Protection Agency, 410 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 2: and people living in suburbs that flooded along the Brisbane 411 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: River who have adopted a community organizing approach that saw 412 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 2: an unprecedented three Greens mpees elected to federal Parliament. 413 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 19: I think it's important to recognize that we operate off 414 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 19: social science as protesters, and what we're doing is activating 415 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 19: what we call the appropriate response to the threat, and 416 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 19: that's about shifting what we call the Overton window and 417 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 19: the over wind though, is about the appropriate response. So 418 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 19: what we want to do is keep shifting being as 419 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 19: brave and courageous as we can to shift over into 420 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 19: this appropriate response because the threat is massive and we 421 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 19: need to have a response that is just as proportionate. 422 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 2: Despite the fact that the police crack down on protests 423 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 2: seems to be intensifying, activists like Cocoa and Thorpe are 424 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 2: more confident than ever that their activism is necessary and important. 425 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 11: The concern that I have as an older because it's 426 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 11: not about my future, it's about future generations, and I 427 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 11: think that's what we need to really put out the 428 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 11: center here because anything is interconnected, and that's what our 429 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 11: stories tell us. 430 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 5: We don't just need to practice. We have to fight 431 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 5: for this future. 432 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 12: And if you stand up to do that, well, that's 433 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 12: what we have to do to us up, lock us up, 434 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 12: so we have to continue. 435 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 2: Juist Drilled is an original Critical Frequency production. This episode 436 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 2: was reported and written by me Lindall Rowlins. Our senior 437 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: editor for this season is Aileen Brown. Sarah Ventry and 438 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 2: Martin Saltz Austwick are senior producers. Sound design and scoring 439 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 2: also by Martin Saltz Ustwick, who composed much of the 440 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: music in this episode, mixing an additional production by Peter Duff. 441 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: Fact checking by wudan Jan, Legal review by James Wheaton. 442 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: Our artwork is by Matt Fleming. Our theme song is 443 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: but in the Hand by four Known. The show was 444 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: created by Amy Westervelt, who contributed additional reporting to this episode. 445 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 2: You can see more stories from this series, as well 446 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: as background reporting on drilled dot Media. You can also 447 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: sign up for our newsletter there you'd like to support 448 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 2: the show, You can give us a rating or review 449 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts, share links to our stories, 450 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: or upgrade to a paid newsletter or podcast subscription for 451 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: access to add free early release episodes and bonus content. 452 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.