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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: It's okay to meet your heroes, It's okay to dream,

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Speaker 2: It's okay to let life float you to where you

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Speaker 2: should be. In twenty twenty one, Quest Love asked me

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Speaker 2: to do a one on one interview with Elvis Costello

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Speaker 2: at Electric Lady Studios for Questlove Supreme. At first I

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Speaker 2: said no, just kidding. I jumped at the opportunity, but

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Speaker 2: I wanted Questlove there for part of it, just to

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Speaker 2: see what two of the greatest musicologists and music historians

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Speaker 2: of our time would discuss. I wasn't disappointed, and you

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Speaker 2: won't be either. It's hard to keep up, but it's

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Speaker 2: worth it, and it's hilarious listening to me try to.

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Speaker 2: They're both legends, they're both brilliant. Enjoy Part one this

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Speaker 2: week and Part two next week. This was originally aired

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Speaker 2: in April twenty twenty two. Whew, I can't believe this happened.

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Speaker 3: That's all rights alone, and he can give you tonight.

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Speaker 4: By you know, I don't even know the bloody words

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Speaker 4: in direction like it was trying to lift this person up.

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Speaker 3: So maybe it's a little gramatic guy.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to get your attention.

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Speaker 4: It looks like you're no good.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: The reason I mentioned Elvis Hostels because the record I

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Speaker 2: just called that because I can't call it from jackfre

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Speaker 2: New City.

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Speaker 4: The reason I mentioned el this Hostel.

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Speaker 3: Everyday book the way it was written, which is kind

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Speaker 3: of much more so a strummy already down with all this.

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Speaker 2: What a great first line in the history of first

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Speaker 2: lines of rock and roll songs.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 2: I used to be disgusted, but now I try to

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Speaker 2: be amused. Sometimes you can't read the newspaper without keeping

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Speaker 2: that in mind.

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Speaker 4: But he says, well, that's fine, but you never said

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Speaker 4: what the pad's poison closed means. So that's what you

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Speaker 4: have to say. I mean in this hang Out with

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Speaker 4: Elvis educational part of Right with Bae McCarty incident hang

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Speaker 4: Out with Elvis, he's very logical, so.

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Speaker 3: He goes, you know, this is.

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Speaker 4: What you gotta do that with Elvis.

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Speaker 2: There's gonna be music in it, and I'm gonna cut

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Speaker 2: it in.

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Speaker 3: El got everything everything everything, Yeah, you know, various album throughout.

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Speaker 2: The interesting things that they probably want clear like the

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Speaker 2: roots running over a high fidelity by themselves at thirty rock.

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Speaker 2: You know, before that first performance.

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Speaker 4: Oh, let's have that. Yeah, that'd be good. Can we

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Speaker 4: get that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, do we do that? And did we do that?

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Speaker 4: And we did that on the show? Yet we did

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Speaker 4: that on the show?

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Speaker 2: Happy Yeah? It was the first first song I know?

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Speaker 4: Is that the same one with the Chelsea? And then

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Speaker 4: the second time it was like Stations of the.

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Speaker 3: Cross and someone else?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and John exactly hey man belated Happy Birthday. I

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Speaker 4: try to play a happy birthright. I couldn't play for ship.

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Speaker 4: Don't know if I don't know how to play the piano.

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Speaker 3: Still feel h m hmm, I still feel good? H No,

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Speaker 3: I said, they said the song. Mm hm, that's great.

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Speaker 4: M hm.

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Speaker 3: Hm is that the easy Yeah? I'm a I'm a

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Speaker 3: mm hmmmmm m h. I'm gonna do a slight preface.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the first quest Love Supreme

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Speaker 3: that has been done in person since the March sixteenth,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty pandemic. How strange that we don't have a

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Speaker 3: supreme vow call Candy home. It should also be noted

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Speaker 3: that this was recorded on January It's to Day's day,

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Speaker 3: twenty fifth. Okay, so the day of this recording is

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Speaker 3: January twenty fifth, and the reason why I feel compelled

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Speaker 3: to acknowledge the date is because we are also recording

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Speaker 3: inside of Electric Lady Studios on this the twenty second

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Speaker 3: anniversary of the seminal album that kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: brought me to the studio in the first place.

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Speaker 4: Which is Voodoo by DiAngelo.

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Speaker 3: So I was rather apropos that Sugar Steve and I, oh,

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Speaker 3: by the way, Boston.

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Speaker 2: Edited, I'm editing this, so don't worry about anything. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna chop it up, not shopping, sit up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unpaid, Bill Fontigelo and Laia are not with us

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Speaker 3: right now, so it's right now, it's just me and Steve.

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Speaker 3: The last time we did this was with with Herb

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Speaker 3: Alpert right at this very studio. So for me, what's

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Speaker 3: very important about this particular episode, and this is again

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Speaker 3: me trying to improve as a human. This is all

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Speaker 3: about going out of your comfort zone. So I'm here

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Speaker 3: as a third will, or as a referee, or as

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Speaker 3: training wills, because I really it's my dream for Sugars

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Speaker 3: Steve to really bring out his voice and quest of

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Speaker 3: supreme episodes because you know, half the time we hog

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Speaker 3: up all the the moments and he only gets like

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Speaker 3: one comet in and you know that, like Steve really

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Speaker 3: has in my opinion, Like I mean, he's like all

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Speaker 3: he has so much music knowledge that he has yet

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Speaker 3: to share with you people, unless you follow the Sugar

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Speaker 3: network like of all of us. He has his own

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Speaker 3: fan clubs simply for his music knowledge. So that should

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Speaker 3: tell you something. But for me, I thought, what what's

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Speaker 3: the best way to throw Sugar Steve in the and

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Speaker 3: the long away to jump into the river. And he's

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Speaker 3: really uncomfortable right now, is I mean? Long guard?

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Speaker 2: I told you I'm editing.

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Speaker 3: You're not editing at all. Yo, I'm sorry you're not.

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Speaker 2: I'm like you. I'm a little uncomfortable with compliments. But

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Speaker 2: and and and see we're at a crossroads here. We're not, Yes,

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 3: This is the fact. Look, Steve, we this is the

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Speaker 3: very this is where we are.

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Speaker 2: We're literally at the cross We're in the we're in

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Speaker 2: the center of studio A. Yes, I get it, at

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Speaker 2: like the X the middle of the X point.

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Speaker 3: Similar to Samuel Jackson and Paul Fixon. You're not talking

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Speaker 3: yourself out of this ship. I'm not trying to all

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Speaker 3: I'm saying is that you know, there comes a time

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Speaker 3: where we have to.

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Speaker 2: Like, how long do you have to stay tonight? Because

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Speaker 2: I'm here.

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Speaker 3: All listen, listen. My whole point is this, My whole

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Speaker 3: point is this. The way that you're acting right now

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Speaker 3: is exactly how I was acting when David Dinerstein and

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Speaker 3: Robert Fevalent had told me that it's my destiny to

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Speaker 3: direct the documentary. And I'm like, dude, I'm a first

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Speaker 3: time driver, Like.

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Speaker 2: All right, I got it. I gotta just jump in here.

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Speaker 3: No, no, this is this is a special quest love Supreme. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it's my dream to watch Steve talk to his musical hero.

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Speaker 2: I've thought about this. This is essentially as if you

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Speaker 2: got to interview Prince. I know, you know, like that's

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Speaker 2: essentially where that makes sense to people.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I'm the guy in the threesome that

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Speaker 3: isn't needed.

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Speaker 2: So wow, no, well see here's the that's the relief,

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Speaker 2: here's here's the problem. And you say you're trying to

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Speaker 2: become a better person, So just accept accept this. As

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Speaker 2: much as I'm thrilled to be interviewing you know, my

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Speaker 2: number one musical hero here, Yes, you're very much a

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Speaker 2: part of the story that I want to tell tonight. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'll be here, but and I need you here to

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Speaker 2: tell the story. Not just the story of the last

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Speaker 2: ten years since we've met him, let's say, but a

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Speaker 2: certain theme that I want to get to that you

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Speaker 2: both have in comments. So it's like you're trying to

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Speaker 2: like say, you're training wheels, but you're you're the musical encyclopedia.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with two of the acknowledged global music encyclopedias,

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Speaker 2: and you're telling and you're telling people that I have

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Speaker 2: musical knowledge about something.

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Speaker 3: Let's just do this. This is three friends talking. But

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Speaker 3: eventually I'm gonna get up from the seat and go

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Speaker 3: to Studio B. It's going to be just like two thousands.

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Speaker 3: It's voodoo all over again. It's voodoo all over again.

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Speaker 3: I got kimber waiting next door. Kimber Lee's is next door.

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Speaker 2: So okay, you got two rooms tonight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got two rooms. However, it's my dream to

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Speaker 3: see you top the Jimmy Jam episode. So, ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 3: this is a very special in person live at Electric

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Speaker 3: Lady Studios. You're just cracking up over here with our

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Speaker 3: good friend Elvis Costello. Thank you all right, so and

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Speaker 3: now for the intro.

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Speaker 2: Right now, now, the now, the real intro, because like

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Speaker 2: whatever that was, okay.

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Speaker 4: Did I mention that I have day hell for later on?

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Speaker 2: I mean I really would love to just continue with

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Speaker 2: what he was saying, because like this, dude, right here, wait, look,

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Speaker 2: this is not okay. Well no, I think people need

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Speaker 2: to hear this, okay, just like you thought they needed

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Speaker 2: to hear what you just said.

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Speaker 3: Yes, okay.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons why he agreed to do Wise

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Speaker 2: Up Ghosts he wanted to give me this gift of

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Speaker 2: doing an album with you. Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm saying him give you gifts like that before

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Speaker 4: I was there. I was there on your birthday.

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Speaker 2: Though, right, and you've given me gifts to you anyway,

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Speaker 2: Let's let's start. Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. My name

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Speaker 2: is Sugar Steve.

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Speaker 3: I swear to God, Steve. If you cut out what

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Speaker 3: just started the show your fire, fire, fire fire.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna put an echo on that fire.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead.

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Speaker 2: So with thirty something studio albums, dozens of other compilations

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Speaker 2: and live releases, box sets and EPs, endless singles and

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Speaker 2: B sides, with a substantial autobiography and a forty five

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Speaker 2: year career, playing countless live concerts and appearing in media

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Speaker 2: as diverse as singing on a commercial jingle with his father,

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Speaker 2: guest hosting that David Letterman show, Austin Powers movies, and

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Speaker 2: his own influential interview show Spectacle. If you haven't been

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Speaker 2: properly introduced to him by now, I certainly can't do

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Speaker 2: it in a mere few minutes get it. But because

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Speaker 2: Elvis's career has had such a deep connection in the

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Speaker 2: lives of his fans, there is a kind of magic

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Speaker 2: to it all, and with any kind of magic, one

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Speaker 2: of the main attractions is to try to figure out

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Speaker 2: how the magician is doing it. So here is a

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Speaker 2: very brief look at his background story and a quick

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Speaker 2: summation of his discography. Born Declan mcmanuson London to a

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Speaker 2: musical family, his dad was a professional trumpet player and singer,

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Speaker 2: first in popular big bands and then on his own.

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Speaker 2: His mom worked in a record shop whose customers relied

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Speaker 2: on her to have the coolest singles and albums from

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Speaker 2: the United States. Elvis moved from London to Liverpool and

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Speaker 2: then back again before launching his career in London. From

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Speaker 2: an early age, Elvis played guitar and by the early

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Speaker 2: seventies formed a guitar duo with one of his friends.

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Speaker 4: Alan Mays.

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Speaker 3: Thank You I knew that He.

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Speaker 2: Worked a few non music related jobs, and then in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six was signed to Stiff Records, an independent

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Speaker 2: record label in London. At the time, Elvis was performing

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Speaker 2: as DP Costello. Stiff founder and Elvis manager at the time,

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Speaker 2: Jake Riviera, suggested using the name Elvis. His first four albums,

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven's Miam Is True, nineteen seventy Eights, This

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Speaker 2: Year's Model, nineteen seventy nine's Armed Forces, and nineteen eighties

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Speaker 2: Get Happy came with such a variety of intense pleasures,

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Speaker 2: the poetic and existential lyrics, the melodies which made you

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Speaker 2: play the records over and over, a lot of energy,

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Speaker 2: a lot of sound. And that's something else that only

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Speaker 2: musicians who inspire the most fanatic audiences have the ability

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Speaker 2: to turn all their fans into advocates of the artist,

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Speaker 2: ready to lecture you about meanings and understandings only they

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Speaker 2: and the artist may explain to you. After his debut,

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Speaker 2: the attraction became his recording and touring band for almost

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Speaker 2: ten years, and each player in that band, Steve Naive,

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Speaker 2: Pete Thomas, and Bruce Thomas, had a skill set which

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Speaker 2: elevated the whole until they sounded like an unstoppable machine

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Speaker 2: cranking out literate pop which was both political and romantic.

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Speaker 2: As he broadened the sounds and styles of the music

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Speaker 2: he used on his second great group of records, nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one's Trust, nineteen eighty one's Almost Blue, and his

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Speaker 2: Jeff Emerick produced Imperial Bedroom from nineteen eighty two, Elvis

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Speaker 2: displayed a degree of growth that didn't seem possible because

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Speaker 2: the first few albums were already so advanced. With nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty three's Punched the Clock. In nineteen eighty four's Goodbye

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Speaker 2: Cruel World, Elvis switched producers, if not sounds and styles

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Speaker 2: from his earlier albums. Although critiqued harshly by some, including

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Speaker 2: Elvis himself, these albums and certainly the songs not only

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Speaker 2: hold up today mostly.

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Speaker 3: But wait from what it's in. How uncomfortable are you

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Speaker 3: right now? But he knows, he knows.

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Speaker 2: It's a regurgitation of facts, but it's got some heart.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it has hard Okay, you're boy like man.

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Speaker 2: I know you're so poetic, But those albums Punch Clock

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Speaker 2: and Goodbye Cruel World can now be seen to have

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Speaker 2: charted a course for the rest of his career, a

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Speaker 2: willful musical curiosity and ambition which sees him changing genres

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Speaker 2: and collaborators with an energy and facility that can inspire

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Speaker 2: all who witness it, Like Live Aid nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 2: All You Need Is Love, King of America and Blood

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Speaker 2: and Chocolate, both albums from nineteen eighty six hold a

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Speaker 2: popular place in the hearts of diehard Elvis fans, not

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Speaker 2: only because they are incredible sets of song cycles telling

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Speaker 2: compelling stories, but because they mark the point most of

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Speaker 2: us who love Elvis gave up trying to figure him out.

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Speaker 2: That freed us up for the guilt free enjoyment of

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Speaker 2: Elvis's next pop breakthrough, the single Veronica and the album

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Speaker 2: Spike Is nineteen eighty nine, which marked a change in

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Speaker 2: record companies and a high profile deal with Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 2: Spike encompassed still greater musical territory and in general and inclusiveness,

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Speaker 2: which made room for contributors as varied as James Burton,

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Speaker 2: Mark Reebot, Paul McCartney and Alan Toussant, to name just

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Speaker 2: a few, all in service of an album which hooked

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Speaker 2: a new generation of fans. Mighty Like a Rose nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one continued where Spike left off with even more

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Speaker 2: sophisticated arrangements and production, and from nineteen ninety one on,

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Speaker 2: Elvis's discography has been a hopscotch game of going wherever

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Speaker 2: his fans think he won't be spiking his catalog with

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Speaker 2: classics of what can only be called the genre of

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Speaker 2: Elvis Costello writing for string quartets The Juliet Letters in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. Numerous quote unquote returned to form albums

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Speaker 2: over the years, like nineteen ninety four's Brutal Youth, then

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six is All This Useless Beauty and Kojack

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Speaker 2: Variety and album of covers in nineteen ninety five, the

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Speaker 2: stunning collaboration with Burt Backrack from nineteen ninety eight title

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Speaker 2: Painted from Memory two thousand and twos, When I Was

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Speaker 2: Cruel for the Stars, an album with opera singer and

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Speaker 2: Sophie von Hotter two thousand threes, Marvelous Piano vocal Album

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Speaker 2: North two thousand four as the delivery Man with the Impostors,

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Speaker 2: Shout out to David Farreger and oh yeah. Elvis released

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Speaker 2: a symphony that year as well, il sogno Al Music.

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Speaker 2: It went to number one on the classical charts. Humanitarian

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Speaker 2: and artistic efforts came together on the River in Reverse,

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Speaker 2: a full LP from two thousand and six with Alan

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Speaker 2: Tussana to bring attention to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina,

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Speaker 2: an overlooked gem called Momofuku in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 2: with the Impostors two thousand and nine and ten bring

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Speaker 2: two more t Bone Burnette productions, Secret Profane and Sugarcane

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Speaker 2: and National Ransom. Well, that's a lot of albums.

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Speaker 3: I'm lying down though.

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Speaker 2: And was it over at that point? Perhaps until and

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Speaker 2: I was told this by Diana Crawl, until Elvis Costello's

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Speaker 2: creative fire and undernourished musical life force was reignited. Oh

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Speaker 2: we had come on when he met Sugar. Steve Man questlove.

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Speaker 3: With that silence. That's a direct quote from Diana Hau. No.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, God bless Diana Crawl. Can we start out, No,

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Speaker 3: it's almost, it's almost.

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Speaker 2: This is where wise up Ghost happens. Recorded in twenty

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Speaker 2: twelve and released in twenty thirteen. Elvis in Quest along

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Speaker 2: with the Roots got together to create Wise Up Ghosts,

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Speaker 2: and we'll obviously spend some time talking about that tonight.

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Speaker 2: But to get current with Elvis's discography after Wise Up

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Speaker 2: Ghosts came Grammy Award winning Look Now from twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 2: the first of four albums co produced with the most

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Speaker 2: wonderful producer and engineer Sebastian Chris. So that's look Now, Hey, Clockface,

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Speaker 2: Spanish Model, and the album that just came out. Yet

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Speaker 2: another great Elvis album here in twenty twenty two, the

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Speaker 2: boy named if is What just dropped QS listeners from

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Speaker 2: Electric Lady along with Questlove. As he said, this is

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Speaker 2: a very special pisode of Questions of Supreme. Please welcome

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Speaker 2: music Icon Elvis Costello.

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Speaker 3: This is the longest, like that was seventeen minutes. That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: I'm really proud of you, Steve that I'm beaming like

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Speaker 3: I'm your dad or.

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Speaker 4: Something, and I am too.

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Speaker 3: Now this is really Steve is wait, I don't even

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Speaker 3: want to say that, like Steve only likes the background

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Speaker 3: because I don't know. To me, like Steve and I

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Speaker 3: would always talk about like having our own radio show

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Speaker 3: when we were like working back in Philly, And this,

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Speaker 3: to me sounds this is like the equivalent of his

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Speaker 3: radio shows that he used to he used to host

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Speaker 3: on his own cassettes when he was like twelve and

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Speaker 3: thirteen years.

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Speaker 2: I've interviewed you before, way back.

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Speaker 3: When I was Yes, so to see this moment happen.

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Speaker 3: How are you today?

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Speaker 4: I'm doing great. This is exactly what I knew what

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Speaker 4: happened here.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, No, I love it. Are you kidding?

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Speaker 4: You're just I just I mean when you dubbed the

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Speaker 4: little little bit Talian organ behind as well, it's kind

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Speaker 4: of just sounded like my obituy, like you just have

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Speaker 4: to have the boys, and then when you got to

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Speaker 4: bring the choir in right you know. No, I appreciate it, no,

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Speaker 4: because it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff. When

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Speaker 4: I said, it makes me go like did I do that?

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Speaker 3: You did a lot?

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Speaker 2: It's too damn much.

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00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 3: Yes, you did.

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Speaker 2: That's why I tried to just sum up the past.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well let's start or whatever you want to talk

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Speaker 3: about it. Yeah, I know we're going to nerd out

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Speaker 3: on your career, but I just want to ask one

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Speaker 3: question that's sort of out of the realm of anything

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Speaker 3: that was just said in the last eighteen minutes. What

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Speaker 3: did you do today? What did I do today? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: What times you wake up?

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Speaker 4: Turn to six?

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Speaker 3: How is it like? How does your day start?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: What do you do?

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Speaker 4: It's mostly shaken, like a couple of fifteen year olds

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Speaker 4: out of bed, different amounts of persuasion.

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Speaker 3: So usually still dead.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, they got to get on the school bus,

356
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Speaker 4: so five to seven, so that's you know, so you

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Speaker 4: take a kid school, No, I take them down of

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Speaker 4: the door and they get on the bus.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah. Do you do your kids know you're

360
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Speaker 3: Elvis Costella? Like, do they get it or you're just

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Speaker 3: more dead? Oh?

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Speaker 4: No, they get that something that's been happening because they

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Speaker 4: came and watched the TV show the other night and

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Speaker 4: they know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so they hear me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the thing is, the last two years, nobody's

367
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Speaker 4: been able to get away from anybody, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 4: even if they know they've been on the road with

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Speaker 4: both of us since they were six months old, they

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Speaker 4: remember it from when they were four. But when I said, hey,

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Speaker 4: this summer we might go on the road with mom.

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Speaker 4: That'd be great. You know, they're good at traveling.

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Speaker 3: And they're fifteen. They were born in.

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Speaker 4: Two thousand and six, Yeah, December two thousand and six,

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Speaker 4: so they are you know, they'd be sixteen extra samber,

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Speaker 4: so they not long had a birthday.

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Speaker 3: And they're great lads.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I have in the amount I've traveled

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Speaker 4: in my life, and we all have traveled, I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: have I wouldn't have traded anything about these last two

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Speaker 4: years except the fear of friends and my family and yeah,

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00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 4: you know far away either you're concerned about them and

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Speaker 4: you responding to an emergency or something. But in terms

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Speaker 4: of the time we had the four of us, that's unbeatable,

385
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 4: you know. And they got used to like, why is

386
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Speaker 4: Dad out in the garden shouting into that microphone? That's

387
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Speaker 4: because I was making a record.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I worked out how to do it, and we all

390
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 4: had to work out how to do it. I learned

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Speaker 4: to play the electric violin. That was a worrying sound.

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Speaker 3: You know, are they musically inclined? Like? Are they that

393
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Speaker 3: they got music within them?

394
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Speaker 4: And one of them is you know, one of them

395
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 4: told me that, you know, he said I'm I'm piano

396
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Speaker 4: this year. And I said, well, do you already read

397
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Speaker 4: music right now? Because you played trombone for a year

398
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Speaker 4: in jazz band. He said, I wasn't reading. I had

399
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Speaker 4: memorized it, so you know, oh okay. So there's there's

400
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Speaker 4: some of mom and the summer Dad and it. You know,

401
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 4: I can't read by a can. I can write it

402
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 4: now and I can, you know, but I can't read

403
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Speaker 4: it back.

404
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 3: So what's their epic to nes? Like where your dad

405
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Speaker 3: is Elvis Costill in your mom's.

406
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Speaker 2: Dying and crawl like, I don't know. My dad's a dentist.

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Speaker 4: Listen, if you got to school, if you got to

408
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Speaker 4: if you told my sisters like I was, they just

409
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 4: had such a complete conviction that I could sing when

410
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Speaker 4: I was a little boy because my dad was on

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Speaker 4: the radio every week.

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Speaker 3: They were convinced.

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Speaker 4: And that was fine when it was fine, the drumming

414
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Speaker 4: out of class, maybe sing for who were the priest

415
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Speaker 4: or whoever came to the school. But when you're ten,

416
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 4: you hate that. You know, that's the worst. So my

417
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 4: parents never maybe do it. So my dad being so

418
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Speaker 4: never occurred to me. I was going to do it

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Speaker 4: until I was I was, I don't know, seventeen.

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Speaker 2: So can you sing though, because there was singing around

421
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: you and you sang from an early age.

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Speaker 3: Or why that?

423
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Speaker 4: I don't know. I really don't know. I mean I

424
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: can only remember music playing. I mean I can remember

425
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Speaker 4: I can remember being idle wi with this. This is

426
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 4: Recopli called a decad Kali, and I had this big

427
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Speaker 4: red on on on light on the front of it,

428
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: like one of those ones with a grill, you know,

429
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Speaker 4: like a honeycomb on the front, with a record player,

430
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Speaker 4: like with a lid on it.

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Speaker 3: And I just.

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Speaker 4: Remember that looking at that, like looking at any toy

433
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Speaker 4: on the ground, you know. So I must have only

434
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Speaker 4: been crawling around and I can remember it.

435
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Speaker 3: I'm not imagining it.

436
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 4: I've got pictures, you know, where it was in the

437
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: place we lived. So I guess my mother must have

438
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 4: been playing that a lot back then.

439
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: Let's say, when your father was in his prime, singers

440
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: had to Actually.

441
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a way better singer than I. I mean,

442
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 4: he had what really good voice, but he was also

443
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 4: good mimic. So the funny thing about my dad was

444
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 4: he sang in a kind of The band was modeled

445
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 4: on Glenn Miller. It was the same kind of music

446
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 4: sweet Bound. Really it wasn't a jazz group. He'd been

447
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 4: a bebop trumpet player in bulking Head at the time where.

448
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: He was born.

449
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 4: Came to London to try and make a living in jazz,

450
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 4: like a lot of jazz musicians, found that difficult. When

451
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: my mother and him got married and then I came along,

452
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 4: he took a job that was better paying, which was singing,

453
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 4: because he could sing, and so he had to sing

454
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: whatever was in the hip raide. You didn't get to

455
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 4: choose and to sing whatever was in the charts. Now,

456
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 4: that was fine in the fifties for somebody just singing

457
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 4: a ballad. I got pictures of my dad are as

458
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: big bow ties like Frank sin Archie used to wear

459
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 4: in the forties.

460
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: You know.

461
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 4: Everybody just followed the trends, and he wanted to play

462
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 4: like different people. When he was playing, he wanted to

463
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 4: play like Dizzy. Then he want to play like Clifford Brown.

464
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: You know.

465
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 4: And then then he got in this dance band that

466
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 4: used to just play what was in the charts. Well,

467
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 4: what was in the charts by nineteen sixty three sixty

468
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: four was a huge range of music that wasn't really

469
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: designed for a sixteen piece sweet man to play, but

470
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: they did it nonetheless because that was how music filtered

471
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 4: through to us. We didn't have twelve hour day, let

472
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 4: alone twenty four hour day pop radio. Just that's why

473
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 4: we had pirate radio because that was a revolution that

474
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 4: brought like the continuous pop music to English listeners. My

475
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: dad was part of a process that preceded that, which

476
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 4: was interpreting those songs. So he would have to sing

477
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 4: a song like it wouldn't matter whether it was the

478
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 4: latest song by Tom Jones or the latest song by

479
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 4: the Who, or the latest song by the four Tops

480
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 4: or the Searchers. You know, he had to do all

481
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 4: those songs so crazy, I know, but I mean they

482
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 4: didn't get he didn't get any choice. It's whatever was

483
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 4: in it.

484
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 3: Break. So you're saying that there was somewhat a big

485
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: band scene over there, but was there really a jazz

486
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 3: like a hard bop jazz scene over there.

487
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there's musicians that he that he wanted

488
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 4: to were some of his friends when they first came

489
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 4: from Liverpool, were the people that founded the modern jazz scene.

490
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 4: You know, he tried to get the gig with Ronnie Scott.

491
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 4: Everybody wanted that gig. Ronnie formed the club. The other

492
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 4: musicians of that Joe.

493
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: Ronnie Scott was an actual person because.

494
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 4: Yeah know, Ronie Scott was a tennis saxophone player then

495
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 4: founded the club and he was like one of the

496
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: people that led the way. And there's one or two musicians.

497
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 4: Another great Tanner play called Tubby Hayes came to New

498
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: York and was accepted.

499
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 3: Obviously, some English.

500
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: Musicians made it into the American scene, but there were

501
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: so many great musicians here. Marrimount Partland that the piano players,

502
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 4: She's from England, so you know there's people like that

503
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 4: that came over, that came and they wanted to play

504
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 4: with the great people on fifty second Street. But that

505
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 4: was it was difficult enough to get in the door

506
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 4: in London because this music wasn't that popular and popular

507
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 4: music was. You could turn the radio on when I

508
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 4: was a kid and it sounded like it was nineteen

509
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: thirty five. I mean the music was still like little

510
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: kind of string group playing the melody of something, but

511
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 4: it wouldn't be anything like the record. So there was

512
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 4: a there was so little music.

513
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: And that was known as mainstream radio then that.

514
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, we only had one channel playing music on the BBC.

515
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 4: We just had the light program.

516
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: So what I know is Northern Soul, like when did

517
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 3: that breakout?

518
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 4: Norton Soul was kind of like that was really a

519
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 4: club thing that happened late sixties, I think through mid

520
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 4: to late sixties. The thing that happened all simultaneously was

521
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 4: the Pirate Radio happened, and that changed the fact that

522
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 4: we could get the pop music played by the original

523
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: artists not interpreted in these slightly square ways, and the

524
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 4: TV shows that played pop music got hippa. Like one week,

525
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: Ready Steadygo, the Friday Night for show just had the

526
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: Motown review on, and like just blew everybody's minds because

527
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 4: suddenly all these people with like style and you know,

528
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 4: coordinated moves and everything. You've got to think before that.

529
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: It's four lumpy lads in beetlesuits and their hair brush

530
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: forward for twenty minutes before the show. You know, they

531
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: just thought to do that, and they're doing I don't know,

532
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 4: Fortune Teller or something by Aunt Hussan. Next thing, you've

533
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: got David ruffin Oh Love and Gay.

534
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 3: You know, it was a bit of a mind blower.

535
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 4: Obviously you could hear the bands, you can hear the

536
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 4: musicians who they were listening to. They copied everything off

537
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 4: records and records. Took about six weeks to get to England.

538
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: I just met this weekend. I was in LA and

539
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 3: one of the main cameramen from Ready Steady Go oh Yeah,

540
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: happened to come to an event of mine. So it's

541
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 3: kind of where in the last month and a half, well,

542
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: I've been talking to the Shindig people air quotes talking

543
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: That's all I can see now. I can't tell you

544
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 3: the context, but I've been learning a lot about how

545
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: the pop scene got developed over in the UK. And

546
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: you know, I'm learning these things.

547
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: Totally different, totally different timeline, totally different availability. It wasn't

548
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: commercial for one thing, so they didn't have that driving it.

549
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 4: You know, it didn't have the same thing driving it.

550
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: We had commercial television. We had two only two channels.

551
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 4: When I when say, at the time the Beatles started,

552
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: there were only two TV channels BBC one BBC two

553
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 4: hel BBC and ITV so BBC and one commercial channel. Okay,

554
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 4: so they both had pop shows, but they were kind

555
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: of square and they were based on different things. And

556
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: then then they started BBC two and they would have

557
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: jazz programs and that was kind of amazing actually, because

558
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: they'd get really good people on them. You'd see Errol

559
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 4: Gahan or he'd see Escapedis and there's a lot of

560
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: footage and the BBC went very good at keeping it,

561
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: so I don't know how much they they went over

562
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 4: a lot of things. So things I saw as a

563
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 4: kidnapped memories.

564
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: Of I learned that they would they were they would.

565
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: Wipe the tapes, you know. But I mean, you know,

566
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 4: if you saw something like Hendrix when he he was

567
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: on the Lulu Show and he and the Weak Cream

568
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 4: broke up and he just played at Sun Sorrow of

569
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 4: Your Love. He said, we're going to stop playing this rubbish,

570
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: which was Hey Joe, which was his hit, and that

571
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: was I saw that love and it just blew my mind,

572
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 4: and it was like, hey, television just went out of control,

573
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: you know, because you remember this is at a time

574
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: when when on the radio, when I was a kid,

575
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: they used to make the news reader put on a

576
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: dinner jacket to read the news on the radio. They

577
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: had to wait, they had to be formally dressed to

578
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 4: read the news. I don't ask me why. Maybe it

579
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: made of them.

580
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: To think that I was saying this, this is the

581
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 3: BB Yeah they were.

582
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it was a whole completely different world. And

583
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 4: when you know, you can imagine Hard Day's Night was

584
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 4: a film where the group talking in their ordinary voices,

585
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: not like they were in show business, but they seemed

586
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 4: like they just were lads from Liverpool. And the American

587
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: hop movies were mostly Elvis Presley and they were just

588
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 4: involving Elvis as a truck driver, Elvis as a racing driver,

589
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: Elvis as a helicopter pilot, what Elvis on a surfboard,

590
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: you know, Like I.

591
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: Gotta tell you, I saw Jailhouse Rock for the first

592
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: time this Sunday. That's a good movie. Well they okay.

593
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: So in context, Quentin Tarantino has a what we would

594
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: call a grindhouse in la It's called the New Beverly

595
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: and basically, Quentin Tarantino purchased this place because he wanted

596
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: to recreate what movie theaters were like back in the

597
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: seventies when he was a kid. So it's only thirty

598
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: five millimeter or sixteen millimeter print, and it's weird things

599
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: like you know, a kung fu flick, science fiction film,

600
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 3: an old Western or an old classic or Italian new

601
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: or whatever, and he graciously transferred my movie Summer of

602
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: Soul to thirty five millimeter and was done in double features.

603
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: So on Sunday, the double feature was Elvis's Jailhouse Rock

604
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: in Summer of Soul. So I saw Jailhouse. I've seen

605
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: that scene before, but I've never watched Jailhouse Rock, and

606
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: it just hit me that I I think, with the

607
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 3: exception of is there a film called Blue Hawaii or

608
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: Blue Yeah, I think that's the only Elvis film that

609
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: I've seen, and now I want to watch them all

610
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: because well, just for the format, the format of this

611
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: film is like, there's any excuse two make what videos

612
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 3: basically like to you know? All right, Well, we're also

613
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: going to rabbit holes out of it, So let's go

614
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: back to you were taking us to. This is your beginning.

615
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: It's nearly impossible for me to stay to pick up

616
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 4: the guitar when I was thirteen without referring to the

617
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 4: fact that I know because I've read you know, your book,

618
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 4: so I know that we have this one and we

619
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 4: talked about it before we have this one.

620
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: You know.

621
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 4: So key similarity despite all the different experiences is the

622
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: example of your father playing music weekend.

623
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: We got whatever it.

624
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: Is is very different and it gives you the sense

625
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: of it being both magical and you get an idea

626
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 4: of the Monday. And remember really going in with my

627
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: dad to the radio studio when they were on, when

628
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: I was on the school holiday, I'd go with him

629
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 4: in the morning and to be a bunch of people

630
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 4: reading the paper and I think still smoking in the theater.

631
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 4: I remember them as having cigarettes. Maybe they didn't, but

632
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 4: they were definitely just reading the paper. And then the

633
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 4: conductor would come, the band leader and then bring it

634
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 4: to attention.

635
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: They rehearse. Then a group would come in and rehearse,

636
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: and that group would.

637
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: Be somebody from the charts, so it'd be the Hollies

638
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 4: or Engelbern, Humperdink or whoever was on the show singing

639
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: a couple of songs. Inevitably, if that's your perspective of it,

640
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: it changes. It just me and a kid waiting for

641
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 4: your favorite record to come on the radio, or your

642
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 4: favorite record to come on. The couple of TV shows

643
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 4: a week that played the music. You liked the fact

644
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 4: that my dad was in the front room learning the

645
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 4: songs that I loved, Like the first record I ever

646
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 4: owned was Please Please Meet. He gave it to me

647
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: because I asked him for it, but it was advanced

648
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 4: copy that he was learning off a piece of sheet

649
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 4: music so he could sing it on the radio that

650
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 4: week the Beatles, so he was second hit.

651
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 3: Okay, I see.

652
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: So he's singing please Please Me in the front room.

653
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: And then my folks split up not long after that,

654
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 4: so then he would just give me the records. He'd

655
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 4: come around and give me a stack of singles.

656
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: I was going to ask, what was the first record

657
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: that you remember buying with your own money.

658
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: Fame at Last was an e ep by Georgie Fame

659
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 4: and it was pretty cool because it had one song

660
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 4: by Lambert Andricks and ross one by mos Awson, but

661
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 4: it was a it was a Willie Dixon song, one

662
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: song that was by Lou Jordan and one song by

663
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: Ray Charles that there was that's who he was covering.

664
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: So that was a pretty good education for four songs.

665
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 4: A twenty one year old organ player from Lancashire. They

666
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 4: were napped for a nine year old kid. That was

667
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 4: a lot of information to get all on one record

668
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 4: because he was he was no no, no was way

669
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: after that was a later one. It was a point

670
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 4: in no return. It was a it was a golflin

671
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 4: king song. It was it was sixties like wow, it

672
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 4: was later later, Yeah, okay.

673
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: And Georgie did.

674
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 4: G McDaniels and like a Sander Maria, and he had

675
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 4: like he was Hippie. Knew Eddie Jefferson, and he knew

676
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 4: a lot of music that the other organ players didn't know,

677
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 4: like Stevie Winwood, the New R and B R, all

678
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 4: those guys all knew all the great R and B singers.

679
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 3: But Georgie was unusual and did he He.

680
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 4: Sang like like mosaices and he sang like a cross

681
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 4: between John Hendricks and Moses, and he saying, you know,

682
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 4: you see me, welcome to this man. He had that

683
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 4: kind of dead panwez you know, goddamn Like he could

684
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 4: sing like he could sing John Hendrick's music just great. Yeah,

685
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 4: he could sing like things like he could sing like

686
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 4: down for the Count and Little Darling and those things,

687
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 4: the Neil Hefty things. He could sing, the basy things

688
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 4: he sang with a big band. He was a really

689
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 4: great musician.

690
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: Fort For our listeners out there, if you can peep,

691
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: it's a later John Hendrick song, but there's a okay,

692
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: So if you're familiar with I've talked about this on

693
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 3: the show before. The idea of vocal lise, vocal ease

694
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: is where jazz lyricists would put words to jazz songs

695
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: that never had lyrics before. And so John Hendrix does

696
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: this really amazing version of Miles Davis's Freddy Freeloader, and

697
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 3: he does it with al Jio, George Benson, and Bobby mcfaerrin,

698
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: and basically the four of them, with their very unusual

699
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 3: jazzy voices, verbatim recreate all the solos or Miles's original

700
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: Freddy freeload with the lyrics, which is the hardest thing

701
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: to do. I mean, they notated each like I've played

702
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 3: the original and their version simultaneously, and they followed every

703
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: lick of those solos and put lyrics to it and

704
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: a narrative to a story about a guy loves alcohol.

705
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: But anyway, I digress. If you're into John Hendricks, that

706
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 3: is definitely.

707
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 4: Well that That was the song on not EPI that

708
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 4: they did, which was lined by Hendricks and Ross. Course,

709
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 4: Sonny Ross also another Scottish import to the jaz saying,

710
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 4: you know.

711
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 3: Whoa I did not know that? Yeh she thought she

712
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: was American.

713
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 4: No, she won Americans, she was I think Scottish.

714
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, fuck this, yeah, I mean seriously, like you just

715
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 5: invented your a new podcast. Like the two of you

716
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 5: fucks could talk the fucking ever and it's all great.

717
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 5: But the problems there's like ten references every five seconds.

718
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 5: So it's like for people trying to figure out what

719
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 5: the heck what we're talking about, they have to you know,

720
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 5: you can turn a podcast down to to like half

721
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: speed or like.

722
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: You know, I do that. Actually, I mean, all right,

723
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: you guys are ridiculous. Honestly, it's ridiculous.

724
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: No take over, Steve, forgive me.

725
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: I know that Elvis wants to talk a little bit

726
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 2: about Summer of Saw.

727
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 4: I do I know that you that you saw Smer soldiers.

728
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I have to thank you for morelos that

729
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 4: you know some of us al had to come out

730
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 4: when it came, when when it was shot, it would

731
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 4: have had a corrective I think for the way people

732
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 4: sort of regarded is it. And I mean I remember

733
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 4: going to see Woodstock, and that was our first glimpse

734
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 4: of a festival.

735
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 3: You know, I was living in the north of England.

736
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: You know, it rains all the time, like constantly, it

737
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: seems like for years, it seemed in those days. And

738
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 4: we just thought, Wow, that's gonna be great. One of

739
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 4: these days, We'll have one of these festivals and everybody,

740
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 4: all the girls that take the clothes off and were

741
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 4: all slide around the mudin and all the great you see,

742
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 4: summer sold. It was kind of for one thing, it

743
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 4: was in the city, right so right right there, you

744
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 4: kind of had whole families. You didn't have this one

745
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 4: generation of people working.

746
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 3: Wait time out, I got to ask you a question.

747
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: So you're telling me that in nineteen sixty nine, yeah,

748
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 3: reading aston Bery, they hadn't happened. Oh wait, So I'm

749
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: under the impression that America was lead to the table. No, no,

750
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: and that Europe had been throwing festivals all day.

751
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 4: They were showing festivals where they used to kind of

752
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: like hit each other on the head with a bladder

753
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 4: on a stick, you know, or like jump around the

754
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 4: maypole and stuff back in the medieval times. But they

755
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 4: didn't have like rock festivals. No, they didn't. I mean

756
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: they had gatherings.

757
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: So when did festival cultures start?

758
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: And I think Glastonbury is the first one? Is seventy

759
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 4: or seventy one? Wait what yeah, I mean one of

760
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 4: the big festivals that every remembers was Bath in seventy. Yeah,

761
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 4: but it was a pretty small festival. And then we

762
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 4: didn't really have any big gathering, like, like nothing on

763
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 4: the scale of Woodstock. I mean maybe in Europe they

764
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 4: had them. I don't remember hearing about them though. I

765
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 4: didn't wasn't paying that much attention. But we saw so

766
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 4: we saw the film Woodstock, right, And then I was

767
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: talking to some people the other day about I went

768
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 4: to the biggest festival in seventy two. I was already

769
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: playing then in Liverpool and I remember did a gig

770
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: on the Friday night and I came out and it

771
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 4: was raining, like they said, cats and dogs, you know,

772
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 4: just like looks like a load of needles dancing on

773
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: the on the on the pavement. And it never occurred

774
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 4: to me that would be slightly damp in the field.

775
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 4: I was going to outside thirty miles away and then

776
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 4: got on a train the next morning with just a

777
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 4: blanket and boots, no sleeping bag, no tent, and I

778
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 4: didn't even think about it. I just I'll just sleep

779
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 4: under the stars, like and it was like, you know,

780
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 4: it was like a way back from the lines in

781
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 4: the First World War. When I got there, it was

782
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 4: like you had to wade through feet of mud and

783
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 4: it was miserable and cold, and I and they were

784
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 4: selling these giant like messenger bags, human sized messenger bags,

785
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 4: and that's the only thing that stopped us from all

786
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 4: getting hypothermia. And then listened to Captain beef Hard at about

787
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 4: three o'clock in the morning and the next day The

788
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 4: Grateful Dead played for four hours. You know, it was

789
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 4: like and that was glamour, you know, that was the

790
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 4: baddest glamoro. And I had trench foot when I came home.

791
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 4: You know, it was like it was it was nothing

792
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 4: like we imagined. So seeing summer soul and seeing a

793
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 4: festival happening inner city, right, Okay, it's over weekends, so

794
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 4: it's like it's a collection of festivals really, but with

795
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: the whole thousand. Yeah, But I mean, the thing that's

796
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 4: so great is the fact that you've got those interviews

797
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 4: with the little kids that were there, that were witnesses

798
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 4: to this stuff, and there's a whole corrective to like

799
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 4: what that all of those people meant a part from

800
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 4: the fact that they had the jazz and the gospel people,

801
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 4: and then you know, all the little vignettes like Mehalea

802
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: Jackson handing the mic to mad this, you know, I

803
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: mean parts of it that just I don't know whether

804
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 4: I'm reading into this, but like having said sixty five

805
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 4: or something when the Motown review came over, and the

806
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 4: fact that you were, you know, in the same way

807
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 4: as people say are you beatles or stones? Are you

808
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 4: as we said, Temmy's or tops? You know, you can't

809
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: like them both, you know, right, really because I like

810
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 4: them both.

811
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: You know that.

812
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 4: So David Ruffin when he comes out and he's he's

813
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 4: like the kind of returning prints, you know, and then

814
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 4: he's sort of fragile. You know, it was a curious

815
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 4: look because when he comes out and then his act

816
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 4: kind of looks slightly stiff because he's used to playing

817
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 4: much more he's not. He's also used to four people

818
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: being yeah because it's right after he left, right, so

819
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: it's like yeah, yeah. And then guess what, you know,

820
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 4: the band that everybody's shocked by is fift to mention

821
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 4: to completely kill, and they're kind of seen as kind

822
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: of square, and then when you see him, they're not

823
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 4: square at all. They're looking great, but everything's great. And

824
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 4: then you get the Vinish vision from the future. You

825
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 4: get like the visitation from the future with Sly, and

826
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: I mean we just if that at all. I mean

827
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 4: Sly at Woodstock, it's so far an advance of everything

828
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: else on the bill. I mean, it's so far the

829
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: best thing on It's the best music, even Jimmy. It's

830
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 4: like by the end of it, it's like there's nobody

831
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 4: there watching him. The big moment is Sly. But if

832
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 4: people had seen that in the context of all of it,

833
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 4: can you imagine how different things would have been the

834
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 4: Stevie wanted to right before he makes talking book, you know,

835
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 4: like that's exactly what the hell it's all these things,

836
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 4: you know.

837
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: That's literally like that's why I made it, because I

838
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 3: meant the time when it was offered to me, Prince's

839
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: autobiography was out and he was talking about like being

840
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: an eleven year old watching Santana do this guitar solo

841
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: and he's like, that's what I want to do when

842
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 3: I get older, and like I'm really he was discouraged

843
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 3: from doing music because his dad was like, he'll never

844
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: be as good as me. So already that chip on

845
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: the shoulder, I got to be better than my dad.

846
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 3: Thing happened, and his dad wasn't the nurturing type. But

847
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: his dad takes him to the seawoodstock and through Santana's set,

848
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: Prince is like, that's what I want to do. And

849
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 3: so for me, you know, luckily I got there because

850
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 3: well again epigenetics, like my parents, coming into that situation

851
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: in the world where your parents are musically inclined, you

852
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: can't help but reach this destination. But I just wondered

853
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 3: the hundreds of millions of people that who could have

854
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 3: been affected by this, And again to hear you say it,

855
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 3: because in my mind, I'm thinking that America got a

856
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 3: festival idea from over in Europe. But I don't think so.

857
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 4: No, I think it was a spontaneous I mean, there's

858
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 4: you know, when you will look at jazzon the summer's day,

859
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 4: you know, and you see that and you see Chuck

860
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 4: Berry come out and you watch the band behind him

861
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 4: like it's an all star band behind him, and they're

862
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: really a band that designed to back Little Armstrong, you

863
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 4: know they and they're just looking is Jack t God?

864
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 4: And they played trombone with Little som Strong just looking

865
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 4: at Chuck Berry like what thing is he doing here?

866
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 4: Because I guess that guitar sounds like twelve times louder

867
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: than anything, and really it's not that loud. But but

868
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 4: the difference is in the music is so great and

869
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 4: that's but that looks pretty, that's pretty kind of still

870
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 4: like an it's not really like a festival. It's like

871
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 4: an open air show. It's still like a garden part.

872
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 4: It's a bunch of people up in Newport, like, looking

873
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 4: at this, it's great that we got it. Newport Folk

874
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 4: vessels the same. You get a bunch of bohemians and

875
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 4: then you get Bob Dylan comes out and it's totally

876
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 4: like a revolution. But I don't think there's anything in

877
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 4: England that's there's a Cambridge Folk Festival and things like that.

878
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 4: I don't remember there being anything that we could go

879
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 4: to like that.

880
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 3: Well, this shows me that Woodstock the movie is the

881
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: legend that's set people's thoughts about festivals and people's thoughts

882
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: about hippies and people's tharts about America and people's thoughts

883
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: about those acts that plead.

884
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 4: So, yeah, we saw all those movies, you know, we

885
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 4: saw an Easy Rider with all that, with all the music,

886
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: with Hendrix in and Steppenwolf, you know, and that seemed

887
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 4: like whatever the movie was about, whatever it represented, those

888
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 4: movies were things that people or have you seen that

889
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 4: because it was it was an X because there was

890
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 4: naked people in it and drugs, so those things don't

891
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 4: The country was pretty buttoned up. People think it's like, oh,

892
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 4: it's all happening, that's swinging sixties and all that, But

893
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 4: that's all just happening on the films that the that

894
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 4: they made pop films in the fifties, like on the

895
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 4: Elvis Model. They put the star of the day in

896
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 4: the movie, made up some daft thing. What's this one about? Oh,

897
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 4: he's he's got a race horse? Okay, well, this one's

898
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 4: about a race horse, this guy's got a chip shop,

899
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 4: whatever it is. You know, they make up some story

900
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 4: right and stick a couple of songs in it. Then

901
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 4: then it all changes again. So the idea of a

902
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 4: bunch of people getting together and putting music on and

903
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, what's the name of the guys

904
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 4: that the mc gar Yeah, God is like you could

905
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 4: make a whole you know. I said to Jeff Jones that,

906
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 4: you know, I went to the Get Back premiere in

907
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 4: London and I sat next one away from Glen Johns.

908
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 3: Well you went to the Get Back premiere? How long

909
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 3: was the movie?

910
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 4: It was like one hundred minute cut with a with

911
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: an introduction Peter Jackson on one of the days of

912
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 4: the eighteenth day.

913
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 3: Have you seen us yet?

914
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: This is where I got to cut you guys off.

915
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: There's no and you talk about that documentary the next hour.

916
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: Let me, I've decided this ship.

917
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: Let me just say this one thing though, because it

918
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 4: attains the quest. I mean, I think there was an

919
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 4: actual article in the New York Times about Glenn john

920
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 4: Sen that he was kind of like had it with

921
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 4: people ringing him up, going what about your clothes and

922
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 4: get back? Because Glen is wearing like the greatest outfits.

923
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 4: He's the most stylish man in the movie. Likewise, you

924
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 4: could have had a Summer of Soul line of clothing

925
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 4: from the.

926
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: MC's got the greatest cussion.

927
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 4: No matter who's on the stage, He's He's like he's

928
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 4: got an outfit almost as good and nearly always like

929
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 4: right for their style too. It's like he dressed he knew, Okay,

930
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 4: I'm going to come out and I'm going to introduce

931
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 4: I'm going to be right for that, you know. It's

932
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 4: like he's given a lot of thought to it. One no,

933
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 4: he changed for every act. Was that was fantastic?

934
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 3: So do you want to ask your first question?

935
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 2: So that was the introduction his first hour of whatever.

936
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: But I did see Get Back. It's freaking mesmerizing. Obviously,

937
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: if you're a Beatles fan, there's so much and.

938
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 4: Even if you're not, actually I think if it, I think, yeah, sir,

939
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 4: if you just like people, you know, if you just

940
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 4: like people.

941
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, But if you're a Beatles fan, it's like.

942
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 3: All right.

943
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: For me, I think this is where the story begins

944
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: with regards to the two of you. It's the year

945
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 2: two thousand, and it's right after Voodoo had come out

946
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety nine. But for me, the story starts

947
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 2: with a Vanity Fair article more of a list addictionary

948
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: that came out that Elvis put out in Vanity Fair

949
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: in the year two thousand. It was essentially his five

950
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: hundred favorite albums or most recommended album something along those lines,

951
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: and five hundred.

952
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 4: Records ant to haven if you died.

953
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, like that. It was very ominous that article.

954
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: That article started my friendship with Lisa Robbins because I

955
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: was like, I want to do that. I could do that,

956
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: you know, so we sort of Yeah.

957
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: I don't know how I came across it, but my

958
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: first subscribe.

959
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to I'm gonna tell you how he came across. No. Literally,

960
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 3: it was a big deal that Vanity Fair did a

961
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 3: music issue was just unheard of at the time, and

962
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: I remember I think I brought ten copies of that. Okay,

963
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell you how how that article and that

964
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: specific issue saved Annie Leebwoitz's life. Are you ready for this?

965
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 3: And it's a voodoo connection. So my publicist gives me

966
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 3: a call. We get the roots, get word that we're

967
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 3: going to be one of the subjects in the music

968
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: issue and at Annie Leewoods is going to shoot us,

969
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 3: which is the highest honor at the time, Like there's

970
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: a photographer that's going to shoot you, has to be Annie.

971
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: So of course I'm I'm the point person for the

972
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: Roots or whatever. And you know, I talked to her

973
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 3: on the phone and she's in Paris right now and

974
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 3: she's shooting maybe three or four artists that like she's

975
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: traveling Europe like getting them and whatnot. So this is

976
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 3: mid two thousand. We're on tour with DeAngelo. I also

977
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 3: think that the first leg of the Voodoo Tour is done.

978
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 3: We're about to start rehearsals for the second leg of

979
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: the Voodoo Tour. And all I remember was okay, So

980
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: we had maybe two or three weeks off of which

981
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: I scheduled time with Anny Leewoods to do this shot

982
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: with the Roots, and something happens on DiAngelo's end. Could

983
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: be anything, right, No, no, but yeah, it was you know,

984
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 3: like we missed the deadline or missed whatever it was,

985
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 3: whatever the set date was supposed to be. We had

986
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 3: to kick the can to the next week, and then

987
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 3: the next week and then and then when we kicked

988
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 3: it the third time, I told Alan Leeds and the

989
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: guys like, look, I got a photo shoot with Anny

990
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 3: Leewoods in Philadelphia. I can't do that day. But it

991
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 3: was like our only date to rehearse, like, you know,

992
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 3: it was one of the things where D'Angelo happened. So

993
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: what winds up happening is I don't want to lose

994
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 3: this shot, and I hit my publisher something. We hit

995
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 3: her up and we're just apologizing profusely, and she's like, look,

996
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 3: look it's cool, we can handle it. Matter of fact.

997
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what this This will give me a

998
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: week to I think Most Death was coming to Paris.

999
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 3: She's like, it gives me a chance to shoot him

1000
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: and do other two other artists, and then I'll hop

1001
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: on the plane and come back, and then we could

1002
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 3: do you on this particular day, which was great. So

1003
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 3: we have that settled turns out and this and this

1004
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 3: is where D'Angelo isms saved her life. Had we kept

1005
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: that original arrangement, any Leewards would have been on that

1006
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 3: last Concord flight that crashed and killed all the passengers. Wow.

1007
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 3: So in the week that she decided to stay for

1008
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 3: Most Death, she avoided being on that flight. You know,

1009
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 3: Thank God for that. So yeah, it's crazy. And the

1010
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: epilogue is that I told di'angelo what happened and he says,

1011
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 3: who's Anny Leewood? And I was like, dude, she's the

1012
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: most epic photographer of all time. Dude like, and he's like,

1013
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: and he pulls out a Jet magazine that he's on

1014
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 3: the front cover of. Right, this is what I'm about.

1015
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: Right, Well, now I know how I found the article

1016
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: because it was you.

1017
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was on that tour. I had ten of those.

1018
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think, yeah, I had ten of those

1019
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 3: issues because it was a big deal.

1020
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: I still have it because I used to use it.

1021
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: I was like, this is the ultimate record store tool

1022
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 2: to have.

1023
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I purchased many an album off that list.

1024
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: So on that list was Voodoo. That's the first time

1025
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: that I knew that you, Elvis, knew about him quest

1026
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: and about t'angelo and I'd heard that record. So how

1027
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: did that? How did Voodoo get on your radar? How

1028
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 2: did you get your hands on it?

1029
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 4: I have no idea. I don't remember anybody.

1030
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 3: I think.

1031
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 4: I just you know, like anything, you something filled us

1032
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 4: through and then you listen to it and it's great.

1033
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 4: Maybe I read about it somewhere.

1034
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: Well, maybe the video.

1035
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 4: I lived up on hill in Ireland and still in

1036
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 4: those days, I didn't see any I didn't have any

1037
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 4: cable television.

1038
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 3: The story that I've always gotten from people, there's always

1039
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,439
Speaker 3: a younger person, someone's life. That's sort of like, I

1040
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 3: think this is an album that's going to resonate with you,

1041
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 3: because this feels like an era that you loved, And

1042
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 3: if you're if you're a fan of Stevie Wonder, if

1043
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 3: you're a fan of if you're a fan of that

1044
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 3: sort of pure soul, then there's no way this record

1045
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: didn't hit your radar.

1046
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 4: I think it's probably that recognition, but that's kind of

1047
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 4: also common to a bunch of other records that are

1048
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 4: probably for one thing, I had no idea you were

1049
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: going to ask me. I would probably be surprised by

1050
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 4: some of the records that are and aren't on that list,

1051
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 4: because you could have asked me.

1052
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 3: Three days later and I would have got a different

1053
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: five hundred. Do you know so?

1054
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 4: I mean I remember thinking that almost The only thing

1055
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 4: I really calculated was I didn't feel obliged to put

1056
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 4: records on that I knew a lot of other people

1057
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 4: really held in high regard, Like there's no records by

1058
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 4: the Doors because I can't stand the doors.

1059
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 3: Why can't you Door?

1060
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 2: I know I knew that about him, but I don't

1061
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 2: I can't figure out why.

1062
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 4: I just never spoke to me. It just never did.

1063
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 4: I don't know why I can. I like a lot

1064
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 4: of them. I don't like it.

1065
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1066
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: It's sort of like it's kind of cool that you

1067
00:55:58,800 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: don't like to do it.

1068
00:55:59,400 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1069
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 4: No, And people always think I would because of the

1070
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 4: organ and you know and everything. But I just and

1071
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 4: I think they're all sure. They're all refined players in

1072
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 4: their own way. And when I break on through to

1073
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 4: the other side. I like that one record that's the

1074
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 4: only record by the Doors. I like the Fame. No,

1075
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 4: my friend played on it. It's like, you know, Jerry

1076
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 4: Chef played on that. He was in my band. But no, no,

1077
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 4: at led Zeppelin, there's no led Zeppelin records on that.

1078
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 4: I literally never owned one. Really, there's no Pink Floyd

1079
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 4: records because I only to own two Pink Floyd discs

1080
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 4: and they're both singles, c Emily Play and Arma Lane.

1081
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 4: I've never even listened to Dark side of the Word.

1082
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 4: I have no idea what the Wall sounds like.

1083
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 3: Is there any homegrown act that you dug homegrown? Well,

1084
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: I mean just from I mean from England?

1085
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, who the peoples? So you forgot the Kinks, the

1086
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 4: Small Faces, the Small Faces for me was the next

1087
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 4: group after the Beatles. It was like, not the Stones,

1088
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 4: it was the Small Faces, really, Tin Soldier, you know,

1089
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 4: all or nothing, all of those records. Yeah, but the Kinks,

1090
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 4: the Kinks, absolutely, the Kinks only.

1091
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: Up to a certain period.

1092
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 2: Tell this man please.

1093
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 4: In the same thing. It's really selective. It's anything about

1094
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 4: musical choices. Like I say, it would have been a

1095
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 4: different five hundred of been You could probably pull one

1096
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 4: up there. What's with that record? I go, I don't

1097
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 4: even remember saying that should have been on the list.

1098
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 4: I would still put Voodoo on there now, but I

1099
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 4: don't know what else is on there that was surprise

1100
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 4: and I don't.

1101
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: Know that was such a relation.

1102
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: I think what I said is right.

1103
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 4: Though I think it's right, I think it speaks to

1104
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 4: some continuity. And you see, this is the part of

1105
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 4: the thing that comes from our inability to hear everything.

1106
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 4: Is the things that we did hear in England really

1107
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 4: went deep. So nobody said have you when you asked

1108
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 4: me about Northern Soul like two hours ago. You know,

1109
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 4: that's an organic kind of movement to kind of dance

1110
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 4: to records that nobody else had. Like there's a particular

1111
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 4: kind of beat. A lot of the Northern Soul records

1112
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 4: are not from Detroit, they're from Chicago. There are a

1113
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 4: lot of Chicago things, so because they I don't know

1114
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 4: why it was, but maybe that slightly different sound motown

1115
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 4: or as we didn't even call it motown.

1116
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 3: We called it Tamla.

1117
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 4: You say you've got the new if you got the

1118
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 4: new Tamla record, right, we said, what do you listen to?

1119
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 4: I listened to Tamla and it's Tamla. And all we

1120
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 4: had were these singles, or we had compilations Motown Chartbusters

1121
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 4: compilations Volume three particular is a particularly good one, you know,

1122
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 4: and What is Soul which was was an Atlantic Records

1123
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 4: compilation of it, and Tighten Up two which is which

1124
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 4: is a regular rosteatic compilation. Those you can have a

1125
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 4: party with those. And we didn't have a lot of

1126
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 4: other records because the radio. Yeah, but that was pretty good.

1127
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 4: You could play those round and round, and I think

1128
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 4: that's it made you really kind of like go behind

1129
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 4: a painted smile.

1130
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 3: You know. This whole herd of mine heard.

1131
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 4: It through the great those records, but we didn't know

1132
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 4: the gladys Knight version who heard it through the Great Vine.

1133
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 4: Necessarily we knew the Marvin version, so all these records

1134
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 4: there were, and then people got into the more esoteric thing,

1135
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 4: and then they started dancing at the week and Casino

1136
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 4: and this kind of slightly looser beat that they had

1137
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 4: on those Chicago records, Major Lance and these kind of

1138
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 4: Curse Mayfield produced records. They're not like the Curtis seventies records.

1139
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 4: These are things that sound like they're imitating Motown, are

1140
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 4: not quite getting it right even yeah, they're not on

1141
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 4: the same level of musicianship as the Motown rhythm section.

1142
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 4: But people, for whatever reason, it was a particular kind

1143
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 4: of bpm. It was a particular kind of rhythm way faster, faster,

1144
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 4: and it and this crazy dancing, the and the crazy clothes.

1145
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 4: You've seen the you've surely seen the documentary about Lord

1146
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 4: and Sold. You know, it's a whole thing, and it's

1147
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 4: totally based in the North and it's nothing to do

1148
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 4: and the suburbs where I lived, we were rock steady,

1149
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 4: motown or tabla you know these that. And then I

1150
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 4: went to Liverpool in nineteen seventy and they asked me

1151
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 4: what kind of music you like? I said, I like

1152
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,479
Speaker 4: Otis Renning and Lee Dorsey and you like soul music,

1153
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, and tabla that's for that's for Divvis.

1154
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 4: They would say Divvy's means like yes, it's like like

1155
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 4: idiots like that music really like because it was I.

1156
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 3: Don't know why they.

1157
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 4: Were into kind of pink Floyd and and like all

1158
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 4: this prog rock and heavy rock. And so I ended

1159
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 4: up liking The Grateful Dead because nobody would nobody to

1160
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 4: go with me on that because so, well.

1161
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 3: What's it. You don't you're not a big prog rock guy,

1162
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 3: but you like the Dead.

1163
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 4: The Dead are not a prog rock Well, in nineteen

1164
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 4: seventy seventy, wait.

1165
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 3: We're gonna go down a whole other Robberts. I honestly

1166
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 3: thought I was just going to say one thing and

1167
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 3: the ease out of here, But now you stuck me.

1168
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 3: And I do this with almost every guest. Guest the

1169
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 3: house with your entire record collection is on fire. Yeah,

1170
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 3: you can only say five records, and they can't be

1171
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 3: greatest hits or box sets? All right?

1172
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 2: Can they be forty fives or LPs LP?

1173
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 3: I mean more records?

1174
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 2: He might want is please please meet forty five?

1175
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 3: You know well, I don't mean the sentimental saving but

1176
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 3: what five albums, non greatest hits, non live unless it's

1177
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 3: a special live record like Volume three of James Brown

1178
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 3: at the can't.

1179
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 4: Be a compilation record, though, can't be a compilation record.

1180
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: It can't be a compilation That's not fair though, Okay,

1181
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

1182
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying some artists like you don't know

1183
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 2: their albums because I'm just trying.

1184
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: To figure out, like, what what is the what is

1185
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 3: the canon of original albums? Yeah?

1186
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 4: But you I think if you really had a chance

1187
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 4: and you knew where they lived.

1188
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 3: How could you ask him this question?

1189
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 4: If you knew though, if you knew that your house

1190
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 4: was on fine, you're going to lose everything. You'd you'd

1191
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 4: pull the rarest records that you knew you couldn't replace.

1192
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 4: You wouldn't Like it's a difficult question because I would definitely.

1193
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 4: I still have my original Mono Revolver two part of

1194
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 4: all right, I picked that one rare.

1195
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 3: Five the rarest albums that you own? Yeah, and five

1196
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 3: of the seminal okay, Mono Revolver No, okay, but all right,

1197
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 3: what five of the rarest albums you own? What are they?

1198
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 4: I don't know that. I don't really know that I

1199
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 4: have rare records in the same way as you do.

1200
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 4: I mean I think at this time, Revolver a mono

1201
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 4: Revolver definitely Okay, sound Venture sound Venture by Georgie means

1202
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 4: a lot to me. Okay, not so easy to get

1203
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 4: uh from later on?

1204
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 3: I what's the most expensive record you shelled out for?

1205
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 4: I actually probably a seventy eight You know some of

1206
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 4: the D eight's come in like four or five hundred.

1207
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: Are you you have a seventy eighths collection? Because that's

1208
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 2: a whole rabbit hole.

1209
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 3: That's a whole rabbit hole. Yeah, So should I accept

1210
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 3: those because people all the time, well no, not real

1211
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: records don't go into that world, dude. I mean, I'm

1212
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 3: not really interested in seventy eighths, But you know, like

1213
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 3: old great grandmothers are passing away, the nieces and nephews

1214
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 3: are like your quest. I don't know what to do this,

1215
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: but it's an endless way, know you, I should take it.

1216
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why.

1217
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 4: Because acoustic records acoustic records before there was electrical recording.

1218
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 4: Think about it, You're like literally staring into the horn

1219
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 4: of the Victrola and you're you can go right through

1220
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 4: that little hole into the room they're playing.

1221
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 3: It's coming.

1222
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 4: It's one generation away, isn't it. It's one generation closer

1223
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 4: than electrical recording.

1224
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 2: Wow.

1225
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 3: All right, so the answers, yes, I should accept it.

1226
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 4: I'm strong on an electrical recording, absolutely.

1227
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 2: But his collections are pretty He's got a collection of collections,

1228
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 2: are right.

1229
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure.

1230
01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 4: I know.

1231
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: I've seen that he's got a storage room for his

1232
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 2: storage rooms.

1233
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, So what you don't know the most expensive.

1234
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 4: I never in a way of collecting records. It's always

1235
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 4: been about what's in the groove. It's never been about

1236
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 4: the catalog number, or the funny label, or this is

1237
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 4: a different sleeve. I never cared about any of that stuff.

1238
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 4: The other reason is because when I first came to

1239
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 4: America after the first trip, I you know, the handle

1240
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 4: fell off my suitcase on the way home because it

1241
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 4: was so full of records I'd bought in second hand stores.

1242
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 4: I used to come with an empty suitcase, no one,

1243
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 4: I'd fill it up. And the whole joy of it

1244
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 4: was like, Oh, here's a whole album by Bobby blue Blant,

1245
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 4: here's a whole album by the Luvin Brothers. You know,

1246
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 4: I had maybe one track on a compilation all those

1247
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 4: here's a whole team one Walker record.

1248
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 3: You know you were a complition guy.

1249
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 4: Well, no, that's what we That's how we got to

1250
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 4: know about stuff because of getting the Motown records or

1251
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,479
Speaker 4: stacks and Atlantic collections. I didn't have a whole record

1252
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 4: of William Bell until it came to America. Then you

1253
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 4: could you could find them everywhere. You could find like

1254
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 4: Great records, whatever it was. You know, it's weird Detroit

1255
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 4: Spinners as we called them, you know, right, you could.

1256
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 4: I had singles on the Spinners, but then you could

1257
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 4: just go buy.

1258
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 3: Albums of them, you know, So you know it's weird now,

1259
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 3: Philip Wynd, you know, yes, you know it's weird. Now.

1260
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 3: I am collecting and paying top dollar for UK acts

1261
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 3: that would cover American stuff. Like I'm going through a

1262
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: kitchen phage now where I'm big into cover songs. So

1263
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 3: there will be again like party records, the idea of

1264
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 3: doing a compilation with just straight up hits that you

1265
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 3: could put on at a party and let play all

1266
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 3: the way through, and then put on side to and

1267
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,439
Speaker 3: let play all the way. So there would be these

1268
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 3: bands from like from Liverpool, pans from Brighton, especially in

1269
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 3: Brighton there's one group with the name Brighton in it

1270
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 3: but they're not known, but it's like they're cheap imitation

1271
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 3: of James Brown's I got the feeling or whatever was

1272
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 3: hitting at that time, like science will delivery.

1273
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 4: And what what what kind of period of time is

1274
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 4: this sixty.

1275
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 3: Six to seventy six? It would be like the k

1276
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 3: Tell of whatever, shout out to k Tel where did

1277
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: they come from? Hey? Before? I mean, this is this

1278
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 3: is the thing. I know.

1279
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 4: This sounds like I'm bringing my dad in this all

1280
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 4: the time, but this is what he did.

1281
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. He did it in the early sixties.

1282
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 4: I mean you, I don't know whether you know this,

1283
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 4: but the beginning of pirate radio, there was the guy

1284
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 4: Ryan O'Reilly. Everybody knows about that name is Irish guy

1285
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 4: who's found of Radio Caroline. His partner was an Australian

1286
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 4: guy who had the other pirate radio ship was which

1287
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 4: was anchored in the in the estuary of the Thames,

1288
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 4: broadcast into London. Now, this guy had a crazy scheme

1289
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 4: and this is true. He thought that he could cover

1290
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 4: records make him cheaply at nine in the morning in downtime,

1291
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 4: and the record the song was because he'd come out

1292
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 4: of publishing. He believed that he could have those records

1293
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 4: taught the original versions, so those are the super kitch

1294
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 4: versions because they are no phino copies, and he thought

1295
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 4: he could get away without paying anything but publishing.

1296
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 3: I guarantee he's saying this is genius.

1297
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 4: It was like, okay, of course it failed, and that

1298
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 4: the plan failed, you know, because people so through it.

1299
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,919
Speaker 3: Okay, So in Portland, Oregon, Yeah, there's a writer who

1300
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 3: wrote the Encyclopedia of Kitsch Records or whatever. He sold me.

1301
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 3: It's like the most I've ever paid for a record collection.

1302
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 3: But even the stories like wait, you guys, you know

1303
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 3: this not the original stuff, right, these like cheap imitations

1304
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 3: or whatever. But for me, the same drum break intro

1305
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 3: for Superstition of Stevie, it's just as valuable if another

1306
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 3: drummer did it, like it's still a drum break is

1307
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: a drummer.

1308
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 4: Plus, there warn't that many musicians in England plan on

1309
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 4: these records. So when my dad would go and sing

1310
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 4: on these records, it was the guitar player would be

1311
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 4: Vic Flick, the same guy that played the James Bond thing.

1312
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 4: It would be that it would it would be the

1313
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 4: same guy that would be playing on the legit session. Anyway,

1314
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 4: they did these things and they paid them cash and

1315
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 4: they sold them at the supermarket. They sold them at

1316
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 4: the gas station or the petrol stations, we called them,

1317
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: and they were they were forty five EPs. These were

1318
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 4: before the albums that you'd probably know from the you know,

1319
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 4: they were later called Top of the Pops because that

1320
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 4: was the name of the BBC weekly show. This a

1321
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 4: whole subculture of music. We used to get them even

1322
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 4: when we were on the road. First we'd get our

1323
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 4: records done in Sweden where they wouldn't know any of

1324
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 4: the words. They just make up a bunch of nonsense

1325
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:39,799
Speaker 4: words to my lyrics. It's half Swedish, half English.

1326
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 3: Wait for the record.

1327
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 4: What is your dad's name, Ross McManus, And that's the

1328
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 4: that's his. He had a bunch of names because he

1329
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 4: was a different person on every track. Dude, Okay, you'd

1330
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 4: never find him.

1331
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 3: So I have seven thousand pieces of just a bunch

1332
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 3: of bands from Europe covering American funk songs and American

1333
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 3: soul songs and rock songs or whatever.

1334
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 4: But also the other thing quess is that there was

1335
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 4: five There was five or six weeks between an American release.

1336
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 4: So no matter how fast they got that the publisher

1337
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 4: got that song over. What was going to happen first

1338
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,959
Speaker 4: was sheet music travel faster than records.

1339
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 3: So if you had Billy J.

1340
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,759
Speaker 4: Kramer or somebody, some good looking guy out of Liverpool,

1341
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 4: he could get a cover of a but new Bert

1342
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 4: backrack song before the American version could come out. Quite

1343
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 4: often you'd see two songs on the charts, the same

1344
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,799
Speaker 4: song done by you know, the the English cover version,

1345
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 4: which and then there'd be a ghost record, as you

1346
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 4: might say that the ones we're talking about, So there'd

1347
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 4: be that version playing on a pirate radio station. There'd

1348
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 4: be the local English group like Silla Black singing anyone

1349
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 4: who had a heart and Warwick hates her for having

1350
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 4: done that, really still was going on about it. Now

1351
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 4: after next time you see the on Silla Black and

1352
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 4: see what, No, she's still matter. So and then of

1353
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 4: course what would happen was the version would come out,

1354
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 4: the American version. People would notice it was a little

1355
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 4: slick or maybe the broc list was better. Certainly the

1356
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 4: standard of production I think generally was better. It's sound

1357
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 4: of arrangement. There's a big difference in the sound of

1358
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 4: an English horn section of American horn section, different tombra.

1359
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 4: I could tell you two bars whether it's an American

1360
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 4: or English record from if there's brass on it.

1361
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 3: You know, well, I'm gonna blow your mind now because

1362
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 3: now the inferior covers is what would attract a hip

1363
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 3: hop producer today, like the trash here and the more

1364
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 3: off notes they play.

1365
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is right over all, I've got one for

1366
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 4: you right before we go back to Steve's agenda here because.

1367
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 3: You got to go.

1368
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 4: Do you know the label Habibi Funk I've heard of it, Yes, Yeah,

1369
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 4: it's they do all they do companies get the compilation. Yeah,

1370
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 4: Number seven in the series cast a Blanker's Shuffle. Okay,

1371
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 4: it's a note for note cover of Bob and Nol

1372
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 4: Harlem shovel. Yeah, and the guy goes to the first

1373
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 4: phrase of it, you know, the lid, except he goes

1374
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 4: up past the note down under the note because he's

1375
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 4: hearing microtones, you know, he's hearing like like Arabic music. Inflection.

1376
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 3: You got to hear it.

1377
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 4: It's it's crazy. First time you hear it, you think, oh,

1378
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 4: that's just out of tune. Then he does it the

1379
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 4: second time he realized that's the way he sings. He's

1380
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 4: and other than that, sounds like they got a you know,

1381
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 4: a real to real tape recorder and put the microphone

1382
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 4: against the wall of an apartment that was playing the

1383
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 4: record next door. That's what the fidelity sounds like. But

1384
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:45,080
Speaker 4: it's killer, damn ya, you really know your music, That's

1385
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 4: what it sounds like. My memory of the Harlem Shoffle

1386
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 4: is going to a works dance at a chocolate factory

1387
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 4: when I was about fifteen, and all the girls lining up,

1388
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 4: all the girls. It was somebody a cousin of some

1389
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 4: word there and I got to go to this works

1390
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 4: dance and they all lined up, all these all these

1391
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 4: girls at work there and did the dance that they thought.

1392
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 3: Was the whole no idea what it was.

1393
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 4: It was like, you know, they just gone it there

1394
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 4: when that record came on, and that record didn't sound

1395
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 4: in that place reverberating. It wasn't played through a very

1396
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 4: good system. It sounded no more you know, polished than

1397
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 4: that right exactly, but the spirit of it and all

1398
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 4: of all of these records, because half of them are

1399
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 4: like mishearings of records that you know, they sound like

1400
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 4: dyking the Blazers is what this sounds like.

1401
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 3: You know. Oh Jesus Christ, don't even give me to

1402
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 3: start there. All right, I'll be right there. But Steve,

1403
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 3: this is now officially your show.

1404
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:49,760
Speaker 2: Okay's He brings up a topic that I that I

1405
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 2: wanted to bring up anyway about what's now become known.

1406
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 2: I think in general as flipping something. Somebody will hear

1407
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 2: a song in old songs, a producer, let's say, and

1408
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: we'll say I'm gonna flip that, which means essentially, I'm

1409
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 2: going to take that, chop it up, sample it, or

1410
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 2: even not sample it physically, but take the idea or

1411
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 2: the vibe by energy.

1412
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, obviously when we started is like

1413
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 4: we had about three I don't think there was any

1414
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 4: ability to sample it. There was, I wasn't aware of it,

1415
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,679
Speaker 4: and music didn't take the same advantage of it. People

1416
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 4: might have copied choruses, I guess they would have had

1417
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,799
Speaker 4: to lose a generation to do that. An analog.

1418
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 3: No, No, I'm not.

1419
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 4: No, no, I'm talking about we would in terms of

1420
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 4: hearing figures within songs, you know, Like that's why I

1421
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 4: never had to write anything down early on because you're going,

1422
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 4: it's the rhythm from this song with the guitar part

1423
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 4: from that.

1424
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 3: We want no change.

1425
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 2: So you get what I'm saying now.

1426
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 4: It's not different to sampling, except we were just playing it.

1427
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 2: It's not different, and that's kind of what.

1428
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 4: I'm That's why when Somon begame dominant, it didn't necessarily

1429
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 4: sort of seem to me like some people had their

1430
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 4: instruments reacted to it like it was some kind of cheating.

1431
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 4: I said, this is everything we've been doing all along.

1432
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 4: It's the degree of imagination that you bring to the

1433
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 4: to the new version of it, the flipped version, as

1434
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 4: you say, is whether it's.

1435
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 3: Any good at all.

1436
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 4: I mean, that's the difference between being Jeff Lynn and

1437
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 4: somebody you know, like from Manchester. Like I won't to

1438
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 4: say the name you know, but you know what I'm talking.

1439
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 2: About, and you sometimes, I believe, reveal these types of

1440
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: things your inspirations for certain songs in concert in the

1441
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: middle of you might.

1442
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 4: Quote something you know that's obviously underneath the song that

1443
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 4: you play it, or I think it's also the way

1444
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 4: you get the particular notes in a vocal. If you're not,

1445
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 4: like you alluded to, the kind of not having a

1446
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 4: melodious or particularly beautiful voice, it helps to think like

1447
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 4: another sing of phrases, so that you know you do

1448
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 4: something with your own.

1449
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 3: Are you still doing that these days?

1450
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, totally.

1451
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1452
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,759
Speaker 4: Sometimes odd words will come out of my mouth actually

1453
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 4: sound mom entirely like somebody else for one word, but

1454
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 4: it's not really important to the understanding of the song,

1455
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 4: so I never underline it. If somebody comments on it,

1456
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 4: then if they notice it, then it was because it

1457
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 4: was there. But it's not important to the telling of

1458
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 4: the story that people reckon. I'm not doing it to

1459
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 4: be recognized. It might have been like, how would such

1460
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 4: and such a single approach that line?

1461
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 2: Well, there's a I guess, innumerable ways of approaching what

1462
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 2: we're talking about. You hear a baseline that you admire

1463
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 2: and so you inverted or you use well, but didn't.

1464
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 3: We get into this when we did?

1465
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 4: When we when we first started, when I first came

1466
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 4: on the show, and we were I was playing with

1467
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 4: the roots, and you know, when we listen back now

1468
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 4: to the sample that you made, and we're getting a

1469
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,719
Speaker 4: little ahead of ourselves into wise up ghosts. But say,

1470
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 4: the sample for my new haunt is Quest Play, and

1471
01:15:56,200 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 4: it is derived from Quest Play and Chelsea, which is

1472
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 4: Pete Thomas playing fire by Mitch Mitchell, well by Hendrix,

1473
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 4: but it's specifically the firepart that he's referencing. So that's

1474
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 4: like a that's like, you know, a flip of a

1475
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 4: flip of a flip correct four times.

1476
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you're counting this as one

1477
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 2: of your flips. But the sound is actually a sample

1478
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 2: of you and the Roots playing live on the stage. Yeah,

1479
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 2: so it's a sample of you guys.

1480
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I mean. No, I mean, but but

1481
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 4: it's being quoted twice over, you know, because Quest is

1482
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,800
Speaker 4: rationalizing it to his style of play based on Pete's part,

1483
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 4: which is based on Mitch's part. So that's that's that's why,

1484
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 4: you know, people are a surprise that I didn't take

1485
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 4: exception about, you know, the pump it up quote on

1486
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 4: the Olivia Rodriga record. But that would be just ludicrous

1487
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 4: because it's like it's common language really, you know, if

1488
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 4: it had been a whole melody or a whole lyric

1489
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 4: that was just stolen. That that would be obvious and

1490
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 4: you would take exception. But I think it's amount of

1491
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 4: language in songs and beads particularly, that's that's common.

1492
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 2: That's folk music, right, I mean, that's that's how it happens.

1493
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not trying to get into that discussion of

1494
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 2: whether this is right to do or to do or

1495
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 2: anything like that, but just to acknowledge that, you know,

1496
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 2: motes are probably sampled from chopin or whatever. Okay, that

1497
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 2: figures you fing out, But anyway, the real comparison I

1498
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 2: want to get you guys to talk about is how

1499
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: you've been doing that since the beginning, you know, and

1500
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 2: he's been doing that, and you're both doing essentially the

1501
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 2: same thing but with different techniques and different technologies.

1502
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 4: Definitely, Yeah, I mean one of the things that I

1503
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 4: think that we've talked about, you and I have talked

1504
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 4: about and we experienced over the you know, I was

1505
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 4: still making the previous record I've made before we worked

1506
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,879
Speaker 4: together was recorded analog and and edited digitally.

1507
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 3: Most of the records part of that were recorded analogue.

1508
01:17:55,200 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 4: Since then, the distance between the two mediums is closed

1509
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 4: because nearly all of the outboard plugins that people designed

1510
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,680
Speaker 4: to work in digital recording today are in it. Our

1511
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:15,680
Speaker 4: imitations of analog, the warmth of analog equipment, valve equipment,

1512
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 4: and and you know, sort of very carefully modulated recreations

1513
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 4: of spaces and all of these things. All these libraries

1514
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 4: of plates you can download in an attempt to bring

1515
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 4: something less brittle to this very facile way of recording

1516
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 4: of digital, which of course is amazing if you don't

1517
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 4: want to bother to play more than two bars and

1518
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 4: music in succession, because you could go on forever, you know,

1519
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 4: you could, you could have every two bars have a

1520
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 4: slightly different sort of resonance. If you could be bothered

1521
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 4: to do it, you could. You could, you could process.

1522
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 4: You could just play a two bar loop and and

1523
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 4: and you know, paste it sequentially and make it sound

1524
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 4: like the most incredibly.

1525
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 3: Organic sounding track.

1526
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 4: Now if you wanted to do that, or you could

1527
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 4: just fucking play it.

1528
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 2: You know, digital is like a photograph of something where

1529
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 2: you like sort of immediately lose a generation just right

1530
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 2: off the bat.

1531
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,679
Speaker 4: There is something to that, for sure, but I actually

1532
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 4: come into piece with it because it is much more

1533
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 4: and I certainly couldn't have made the latest record unless

1534
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:22,719
Speaker 4: we had.

1535
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 2: Or wise Up Ghosts for that matter.

1536
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 4: Wise Up Ghosts and as we you know, from the

1537
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 4: one first time we played the music in the room,

1538
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 4: the music changed shape the minute. Even though you know,

1539
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 4: we were all the same people that had played those

1540
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 4: parts for the most part. The minute we actually just

1541
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 4: played those numbers in a room, the music completely changed shape.

1542
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 3: It stopped being quite as.

1543
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 4: Angular and became greasier and like you know, flowed in

1544
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 4: a different, totally different way, just because it was happening simultaneously.

1545
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 3: It's a totally different.

1546
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 4: Not a collage, you know.

1547
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wasn't involved at that point.

1548
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:01,560
Speaker 4: I didn't want to say.

1549
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,759
Speaker 2: But before we get to wise Up goes more in depth.

1550
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: You know, you're on Quest of Supreme and the audience

1551
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 2: here are as fanatic about Quest as I am about you.

1552
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 2: So can you tell the audience what it was like

1553
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 2: the first time you played live with Quest and the

1554
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:23,719
Speaker 2: Roots when you came onto Late Night with Jimmy Fallon

1555
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 2: in December of two thousand and nine and you did

1556
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 2: high Fidelity and Chelsea.

1557
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:35,680
Speaker 4: Well, I think the high Fidelity was a particularly interesting

1558
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 4: thing because it was the decision, which I don't think

1559
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 4: was mine, was it?

1560
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 2: No, it was mine.

1561
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 3: That was your idea.

1562
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 4: You you had heard the which was then a bootleg.

1563
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 4: You'd heard the bootleg. We were since legitimized it and

1564
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 4: released it in the Aufuls's box set, But it was

1565
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 4: an arrangement that we had not issued. I don't think

1566
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 4: was it available.

1567
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 3: That it was available for Rhino.

1568
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 4: Well maybe we hadn't released it, but we hadn't remixed

1569
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 4: it as well. We hadn't done We hadn't because we

1570
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 4: hadn't gone back to the So what you you were

1571
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 4: referencing was a board tape, and so we put the

1572
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 4: board tape on that Rhino thing, and then in twenty

1573
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 4: twenty we actually went back to the multi tracks. We

1574
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 4: got the multi track and remixed the whole Wow.

1575
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 3: That's sebass ended that wow.

1576
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 4: So that's why the version that's in Unfuls is a

1577
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 4: little bit more kind of bodied to it. But that

1578
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 4: was that was this. I mean, when we did that

1579
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 4: record in Hillsham Wistloud Studios in nineteen eighty, it was

1580
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 4: supposed to be some sort of take on all the

1581
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 4: music that we were talking about earlier, the stuff that

1582
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 4: was kind of like that wasn't made in England. It

1583
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 4: was all the stuff that filtered through. There's much about

1584
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 4: R and B as we kind of knew as we

1585
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 4: call it R and B and soul, that's the words

1586
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 4: we use for it. Those words have different meanings now

1587
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 4: they have different associations. But when I said, you know,

1588
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 4: you know, like nowadays and say you're talking about fifties

1589
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,799
Speaker 4: R and B, you're talking about early sixties like Halean

1590
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 4: Woolf or Slim Harper, you're talking about you know, these

1591
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 4: these different kind of feels. And then the music that

1592
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 4: we identified we saw as distinct. It was a sudden

1593
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 4: soul or soul that was on the Atlantic label. We

1594
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 4: saw something different than Tamla, which was obviously had a

1595
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 4: more poppy The way the voices were and the way

1596
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 4: things were arranged, and the way that, you know, the

1597
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 4: the orchestration, the different kind of other instruments that would

1598
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 4: pop up in them, they seem to have more in

1599
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 4: common with a lot of pop records that were being

1600
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 4: made by the mid sixties. And you know, in these

1601
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 4: definitions of what we heard, it was the just just

1602
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 4: the fact that the Atlantic records, for the most part,

1603
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 4: had horns and a rhythm section with maybe piano and organ,

1604
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 4: whereas the Motown or Tamela records from the mid sixties

1605
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,440
Speaker 4: had a lot of vocal group like often the Temptations,

1606
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 4: even the six and on other people's records, but really

1607
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 4: kind of like very very well arranged vocal parts and strings,

1608
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 4: and they were played by jazz musicians. You can tell

1609
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 4: they're played by jazz musicians. They're kind of light, feel incredible,

1610
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 4: you know, James jameson to hold that whole kind of

1611
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,839
Speaker 4: funk brother's band. It's a very different sound to something

1612
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 4: like Musclesholls or the you know stuff made up on

1613
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 4: forty eighth Street Atlantic, you know, and they're all the

1614
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,799
Speaker 4: bands in England that copied the cues from these records

1615
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 4: were trying very hard to play that. So we grew

1616
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:36,680
Speaker 4: up hearing, as I said, twice over those things and

1617
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 4: sometimes then turned up a little bit like the small Faces.

1618
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 4: Gradually brought volume to bear on that picture. You know,

1619
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 4: you could tell which records different English singers were listening to,

1620
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 4: but they didn't necessarily sound like Faithful Colors. I gradually

1621
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 4: got looser and then by the time we got making records,

1622
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 4: it was completely different. We had a lot of stuff

1623
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 4: to draw from when we went to do that record

1624
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,120
Speaker 4: in Holland that we had already had pretty much all

1625
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 4: the hit records that we were likely to have in England.

1626
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 4: We'd had from Get Happy, you mean well up to

1627
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 4: Get Happy, we had a couple of hits off that

1628
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 4: everything we made was a hit. From late seventy seven

1629
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 4: to eighty there was everything was a top thirty to

1630
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 4: top five record, every single So that was a good run,

1631
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 4: you know. That was like what established us in England.

1632
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 4: At the same time we were barely getting on the

1633
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 4: radio in America, so the things are kind of out

1634
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 4: of joint, you know. So when we got in to

1635
01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 4: do that record, we had arrangements that were still carried

1636
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 4: some of our ideas from the previous year. And the

1637
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 4: big influence on the Armed Forces record were European signing

1638
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 4: records like ABBA and funnily enough, the Bowie records, you know,

1639
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 4: specifically low in Heroes, but also stationed the station and

1640
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 4: station the station was what we were aiming at when

1641
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 4: we did the slow, high fidelity that's brain you know stuff. No,

1642
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:07,320
Speaker 4: that's before Brian, you know, that's the I don't know

1643
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 4: who produced that record, I don't know, I don't know.

1644
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 4: I never really checked who produced it, but it was,

1645
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 4: you know it it had a sort of a funk bass,

1646
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 4: you know, it had a funk bassis to it. But

1647
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 4: then David Bower's kind of vocal and it had like

1648
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 4: the Nina Simone the song associated with Nina Simone, Wild

1649
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 4: is the wind on that record and at TVC one

1650
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 4: five and the beginning of that kind of you know,

1651
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 4: European influenced funk that it didn't. So we were trying

1652
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 4: to we were enamored of that, all that music, and

1653
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:40,600
Speaker 4: we're trying to play.

1654
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 3: Like a machine.

1655
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 4: But we didn't have the guitars, we didn't have the

1656
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:46,600
Speaker 4: sustained guitars, we didn't have the layers of synth, we

1657
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 4: didn't have the layers of production that he did. You know,

1658
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 4: we were just a four piece band. So the live

1659
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,600
Speaker 4: arrangement of that was a sort of feeble attempt to

1660
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,640
Speaker 4: play like station to station. And all that happened was

1661
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 4: when we got in the studio, I said we better

1662
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 4: pick up the tempo because the song is getting away,

1663
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 4: you know.

1664
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: So the live recording was prior to the recording the.

1665
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:07,400
Speaker 3: Studio that was in the summer.

1666
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 4: That was in the summer of seventy nine, so we

1667
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 4: were yeah, well a strange.

1668
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,559
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe you weren't satisfied with with that arrangement,

1669
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 2: but that arrangement does have so much hard to it.

1670
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 4: It has a lot of freedom to the to the

1671
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 4: where the vocal lies. Yeah, because you can dance around

1672
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 4: the beat a lot more because it's much slower, and

1673
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:29,639
Speaker 4: you can sing the melody. I mean, if you here's

1674
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 4: the thing is that high fidelity song at that tempo

1675
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 4: is similar territory to You'll Never Be a Man. It's

1676
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 4: both influenced by the Spinners. You know, they're like the

1677
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 4: Spinner's tunes, you know some things, you know. You know,

1678
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 4: so Philip Winn was like one of my you know,

1679
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 4: the people the voices in the head kind of thing

1680
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:53,680
Speaker 4: I could never sing, like wow, but it shapes the

1681
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 4: way you phrase melody. Allison is based on Philip Winn,

1682
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 4: you know. So it's based on Ghetto Child, you know that.

1683
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,879
Speaker 4: I know it sounds crazy to say that.

1684
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 2: It doesn't tracks my tears or tears of clown or

1685
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:10,040
Speaker 2: something like that.

1686
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 4: Well I would quote those on the end of it,

1687
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 4: but but it's it's really laughing just a little. And

1688
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 4: the spinners that are much more the the staccato way

1689
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 4: that the figure, that part of the Allison, you know,

1690
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:31,560
Speaker 4: comes from the spinners, or the Detroit Spinners as we

1691
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 4: knew them, right.

1692
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 2: I guess my point and we got to it, which

1693
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 2: was that this this arrangement had some real funk to it,

1694
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 2: some hump to it. It sounded to me like questlove.

1695
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 4: That's why that was exactly I mean, when he dropped

1696
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 4: into it, it was like, oh, now it's home because

1697
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 4: now he understands that thing and that and it's more resolute,

1698
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 4: and we've got like a bigger band, you know. It's

1699
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:57,280
Speaker 4: it's got the sounds and had horns, got horns, and

1700
01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:00,040
Speaker 4: you've got Coke who can has got you know, I

1701
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 4: I just had i'd have any effects in those days,

1702
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 4: I'm like God, instead of effects was travelop I don't

1703
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 4: think I had even a distortion that might have had

1704
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:12,479
Speaker 4: a distortion pedal by the time we got to seventy

1705
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 4: nine or some sort of lyft because I never played solos,

1706
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 4: so it was like the guitar straight in and maybe

1707
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 4: just a tramlo pedal. Later on, I used to play

1708
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 4: with a rolling space Echo, you know, and then later

1709
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 4: on an Ecoplex an Acoplex so what Watkins copycat? You know.

1710
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:35,800
Speaker 4: But I didn't really get into processing pedals so much

1711
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 4: later twenty years ago. Really, I didn't play with any

1712
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 4: really until then.

1713
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:43,160
Speaker 2: So so you come onto the show apparently not to

1714
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 2: promote anything at that appearance, because there's no even that way.

1715
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how that even came about.

1716
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 4: It was it?

1717
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 3: It could have had.

1718
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 2: I think you were either supporting Fallon or you want

1719
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 2: to play with the roots or something.

1720
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 4: I think it was just that, or it's what year

1721
01:28:58,120 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 4: is it again?

1722
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: This was end of two thousand and nine, December of

1723
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:02,599
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine.

1724
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 4: It could have been something. Do it spectful? That's around

1725
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 4: then as well. Yeah, give maybe you were a couch

1726
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 4: guest too. I can't remember.

1727
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 3: I can't remember now, you know.

1728
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 4: I just remember two thousand and nine is around the

1729
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 4: time of that Secret Friends Sugarcane and being in Nashville

1730
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 4: and Momofuku. I was making those records all at the

1731
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,680
Speaker 4: same time, you know. If it had been in the

1732
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 4: days of Twitter and I remember when we were making

1733
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 4: What Was Up Ghost? I remember one time we were

1734
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 4: waiting for Quest to come from something that he was

1735
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 4: at and we were checking his feed to find out

1736
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 4: where he was. So, you know, and if that had

1737
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 4: been the case, it would have been like that. There

1738
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 4: was a period where I was doing like a lot

1739
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 4: of different things. When we did the Spectacle show. That

1740
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:49,759
Speaker 4: required a lot of balancing of getting all these people,

1741
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 4: you know, like anything like any television show, getting the

1742
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 4: guests to be there, and then rehearsing for it and

1743
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 4: the different musicians that played on each one. But I

1744
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,960
Speaker 4: could be coming from Nash having made Zigrafine was made

1745
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 4: in three days, so you know, we just went It

1746
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 4: was a three day session. It wasn't an album. There

1747
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 4: were three record dates as in the old Star because

1748
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 4: it was acoustic music. You know, I'd been in.

1749
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 2: So were you thinking EP or something for that now?

1750
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 4: I was thinking I was thinking something. But I was thinking,

1751
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 4: we'll get these songs in the time, because look who

1752
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 4: is playing on it.

1753
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 3: Wow, I got the beggest greatest.

1754
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 4: You know, that's like an all star band to beat

1755
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 4: the band, you know that those players. I had nothing

1756
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 4: at all to do it with Bluegrass. I mean half the

1757
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 4: songs we recorded there I wrote for an opera, you know,

1758
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 4: half the songs we can't on that record were written

1759
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 4: for an opera that I wrote that I did for

1760
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 4: Copenhagen about Hans Chris and Anderson. So it was a

1761
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 4: kind of wild lot of harmony for players who played

1762
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 4: a mandolin to play, you know, they all were like

1763
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 4: they never had anything to do with bluegrass, so it

1764
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 4: was just acoustic acoustically rendered.

1765
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 3: It was like chamber of music, you know.

1766
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 4: So all those different experiences there, I think playing with

1767
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 4: the band again in this in a studio on television

1768
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 4: was pretty much unprecedented. The previous band I'd played with

1769
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 4: on television that wasn't my own group in some.

1770
01:31:11,880 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 3: One way or another.

1771
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 2: Would it be in Letterman's band or something.

1772
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 4: I never played with Lettermans band ever. No, No, never

1773
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:22,679
Speaker 4: played with them. I always played with on my own.

1774
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 2: Well, on Spectacle you must have played with I.

1775
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 4: Played with other mans on that. But prior to that,

1776
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 4: the other experiences for the return to SNL. When I

1777
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:33,400
Speaker 4: went back, I played with the house ban of SNL,

1778
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 4: and Paul may have been in that band then. I

1779
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 4: don't think you think he'd already left and the Beasties.

1780
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 4: But when the beastis backed me and whenever he did

1781
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 4: on the twenty fifth anniversary show.

1782
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 2: But the Roots known as one of the greatest live

1783
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 2: acts that there is on the planet for the last

1784
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:54,000
Speaker 2: thirty years something like that, and so you know, to

1785
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 2: feel that energy behind you on that version of high fidelity, yeah,

1786
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 2: I guess you felt like you made the right decision

1787
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 2: to come on the show hopefully totally.

1788
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. I mean it's like it.

1789
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 4: Was like a realization and we would have never gone

1790
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:09,759
Speaker 4: back to that version in that arrangement.

1791
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 3: You know.

1792
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 4: I did it occasionally after that, and I think the

1793
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 4: band Impostus did learn it and we did it occasionally

1794
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:19,839
Speaker 4: that way or started like that and then cut into tempo.

1795
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 2: That version is what's known as a banger, yeah, because

1796
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 2: it bangs, yeah, like you know, no question.

1797
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 4: And then here in Chelsea that's a different thing again,

1798
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 4: you know, because that's.

1799
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 2: That was I think a mistake on my why. I mean,

1800
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 2: obviously we got a whole new song out of it,

1801
01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 2: and you know, we were referencing not only the original,

1802
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 2: but there's a like a there's another demo version of

1803
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 2: it with a like a distorted organ.

1804
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's the earlier version. Yeah, slightly slow.

1805
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 4: Slower and bit reggae and you know, like and we

1806
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 4: used to come in. You know, bear in mind they

1807
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 4: used to make us re record for television, so when

1808
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 4: the record was a hit in England, you would get

1809
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 4: you would get these three hour sessions and most bands

1810
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:05,400
Speaker 4: couldn't play their records, so they were glad to just

1811
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 4: switch the tape while they weren't looking. They'd switch it

1812
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,799
Speaker 4: for a copy of the record and give the BBC

1813
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 4: essentially just a dove at the record and then say

1814
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 4: they'd cut it.

1815
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:18,720
Speaker 3: You know.

1816
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 4: So there was this whole subterfuge where you had to

1817
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 4: go into the studio for three hours.

1818
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 3: It was intended to protect the.

1819
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 4: Jobs and the union members that had played on records

1820
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 4: in the sixties, and by the time we got to

1821
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 4: everybody playing on their own records, which was most everybody

1822
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,120
Speaker 4: that was on these shows, there was a whole game

1823
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:41,200
Speaker 4: going on where all the studio time went to waste.

1824
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 4: So of course, because we could play, we would come

1825
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 4: in and play the live arrangement, which maybe faster or

1826
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 4: had a different break, and then get pissed off with

1827
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:52,920
Speaker 4: us because we they got their camera cues from the record,

1828
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:54,640
Speaker 4: and then it would be different when we turned up

1829
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 4: at the studio. We just used to fuck with them,

1830
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,360
Speaker 4: you know, Ray, But it was just something to keep

1831
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:01,720
Speaker 4: it from getting stale, because the.

1832
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 3: Whole thing is like.

1833
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 4: The one thing about American television from the get go.

1834
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 4: And the very first time I was ever on TV

1835
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 4: in Americas, he did play live. I was never heard

1836
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 4: on the BBC until Live eight. Every single performance on

1837
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,800
Speaker 4: the BBC I was lip syncing. So my first ever

1838
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,320
Speaker 4: performance is in front of seventy thousand people.

1839
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:22,799
Speaker 3: With one guitar.

1840
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 4: Good chart on the BBC, I did okay, but I

1841
01:34:26,360 --> 01:34:29,000
Speaker 4: played on the other side, on the commercial side. My

1842
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 4: debut was on was just with one guitar as well,

1843
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 4: on a sort of early evening, Sharon Manchester and I

1844
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 4: did one or two performances with the band and then the.

1845
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 6: Shout out to wave away flag while we're here sorry

1846
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:44,679
Speaker 6: and the attractions played only one time a session where

1847
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 6: we played more than one song on the BBC in

1848
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 6: eighty six when Blood and.

1849
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 4: Chocolate was out, and then we didn't play again until

1850
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 4: the nineties. There was no live at all, and even

1851
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 4: now you don't. The other night I was on TV

1852
01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 4: in England, I sang up a track which is just

1853
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 4: carry out it's not real because the music doesn't go

1854
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:06,080
Speaker 4: with you anyway. You have to kind of just sing

1855
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:07,599
Speaker 4: over it. It doesn't sound very good.

1856
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 2: No, I'm not a fan of that.

1857
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 4: No, it doesn't feel very alive.

1858
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:14,679
Speaker 2: And Aretha Franklin came on The Tonight Show or Leaking

1859
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:17,639
Speaker 2: Now with Jimmy Fallon a long time ago. She sang

1860
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 2: to a track and I was like, come on, you know,

1861
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,760
Speaker 2: you got the roots here and for one and even

1862
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 2: you know.

1863
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 4: Just that does seem like a missed opportunity, but a

1864
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 4: little bit.

1865
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 2: She was great obviously, but you know.

1866
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:31,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, but you still want to you know, And

1867
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:35,479
Speaker 4: I mean by the same token, there's a clip of

1868
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 4: her like dragging a BBC band through Don't play that

1869
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 4: song from about sixty eight where she's just killing on

1870
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 4: the piano. She's playing piano and you hear like how

1871
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 4: one player that really knows how it goes can influence

1872
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,040
Speaker 4: even a band of musicians that probably wouldn't ever have

1873
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:54,439
Speaker 4: played anything like that before. So well, sometimes that was

1874
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 4: a really great thing when you have that.

1875
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,080
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, with regards to Chelsea, the reason why, I

1876
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 2: just I thought it was going to be perfect for

1877
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 2: the Roots, and they played it just too similar, I think,

1878
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 2: to the original, and it didn't. I was trying to

1879
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 2: get the reggae aspect into I was trying to mash

1880
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 2: those two versions up the original, and they.

1881
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:13,800
Speaker 4: Should have played it even a little slower.

1882
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 3: It would have been interesting, because then that would have been.

1883
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:16,759
Speaker 4: A different field.

1884
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:19,800
Speaker 2: So the second time you came on, you were promoting

1885
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:20,960
Speaker 2: National Ransom.

1886
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's the one I really have a clear

1887
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 4: memory of. Really right, the other one, I think it's

1888
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 4: also intimidating when you go in and it's a whole

1889
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 4: bunch of new guys and you don't know.

1890
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:32,200
Speaker 3: What they made of it.

1891
01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 4: And I'm not bringing in a hit song or a

1892
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 4: song that's even on the radio or anything I'm playing.

1893
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:41,600
Speaker 4: But even the first time, I'm bringing in like a

1894
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 4: here's a version.

1895
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:44,639
Speaker 3: That we didn't record in the studio.

1896
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 4: This is something I just did in a field in Holland,

1897
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:49,599
Speaker 4: well twenty five years ago. This is a good idea,

1898
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 4: I fellas you know, I think we know. But I

1899
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 4: think I knew right away that the curiosity coming from

1900
01:36:57,000 --> 01:36:59,439
Speaker 4: you and coming from everything that I knew about the

1901
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 4: band and than you'd already done, was this was this

1902
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 4: was okay, This was really good. In fact, it was

1903
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 4: actually what it's about. And I think a little bit

1904
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,599
Speaker 4: like you're talking about the festival band. You know, they

1905
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 4: used to put festival bands together that have like all

1906
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,880
Speaker 4: stars played together on jazz festivals. Particularly harder to do

1907
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 4: with rock and roll bands or any other kind of

1908
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:23,760
Speaker 4: music because they're not equipped to do it, you know,

1909
01:37:23,800 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 4: to get off their own script.

1910
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:28,040
Speaker 3: But they but they but to do this.

1911
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 4: It seems like really in the spirit of being on

1912
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:36,280
Speaker 4: TV where you'd get like really unusual combinations like being

1913
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 4: Crosby House. Here Feliciano and the Supremes. Now check that

1914
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 4: one out on YouTube. You know, there is actually a

1915
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:47,240
Speaker 4: clip of them going through about ninety not ninety, about

1916
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 4: twenty five songs in about four minutes medley on those

1917
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 4: crazy Medalis. It changes every three lines, you know. I

1918
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 4: know they make you nervous, but it's in the same

1919
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:59,679
Speaker 4: spirit of the way they used to jam people together

1920
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,719
Speaker 4: that should have never been seen and occasion that there'd

1921
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 4: be magic, there would be on TV there would be

1922
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 4: some risk involved as well.

1923
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 2: So on November fifth, twenty ten, promoting National Ransom, playing

1924
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 2: Stations of the Cross and Black and White World with

1925
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:21,680
Speaker 2: the Roots tell us.

1926
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:22,559
Speaker 3: What happened that day?

1927
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 4: Well, first thing, the first thing I remember is that

1928
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:30,439
Speaker 4: I was playing World as I don't usually play piano

1929
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 4: for one thing, not leading the band, but I really

1930
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:35,519
Speaker 4: wanted to play.

1931
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:36,559
Speaker 3: I wanted to play the.

1932
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,920
Speaker 4: Field of that song simply on the World's that sort

1933
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:42,320
Speaker 4: of get it locked in From where I was sitting.

1934
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:43,719
Speaker 3: I knew the rhythm would be great.

1935
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 4: I felt like there was something going on with the

1936
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:51,200
Speaker 4: bassline that had been played on a double bass by

1937
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 4: Dennis Crouch, so I was really interested.

1938
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:54,400
Speaker 3: To hear I play it.

1939
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 2: Shout out to Mark Kelley, who specifically asked me to

1940
01:38:57,880 --> 01:38:59,599
Speaker 2: mention his name on this pot bet.

1941
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:04,799
Speaker 4: And then it's it's kind of like it was always

1942
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 4: supposed to be a really ominous song. It was a

1943
01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:10,320
Speaker 4: very dark song. It is a very dark song. Then

1944
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 4: I remember we were walking I don't know, in the

1945
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:15,040
Speaker 4: hallway and quest said this thing about I think you've

1946
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 4: been in here right with with D'Angelo and it had

1947
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:21,840
Speaker 4: gone really late, that's what he told me. Or it'd

1948
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 4: been working or something, you'd been on a session anyway,

1949
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:27,559
Speaker 4: you know, this was for some other thing.

1950
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:28,360
Speaker 3: I don't know what it was.

1951
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:30,360
Speaker 4: And then he said, and now we're learning these inner

1952
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 4: Mountain Flame songs and what the hell for me? You know,

1953
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 4: that's so difficult, it said because John mcgoughlin is here

1954
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 4: as I was sitting in with us, so I said, well,

1955
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:40,519
Speaker 4: can he play on my song?

1956
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:43,479
Speaker 3: And the next thing we're in what I think of?

1957
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 4: I mean, I am always I don't know where are

1958
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:47,799
Speaker 4: you still in that little room or you've got bigger

1959
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:50,640
Speaker 4: since COVID never had to give you a bigger rule?

1960
01:39:50,760 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 3: Where do you think we are?

1961
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,639
Speaker 4: I imagine you're still in that little room. The tartis

1962
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:57,759
Speaker 4: so the tartist I'm sure has been described at length

1963
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:00,120
Speaker 4: on this show, but I mean, from my perspective, it

1964
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 4: is incredible that I'm sure it was just the tech

1965
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:05,960
Speaker 4: covered where they used to keep like spanners and whatever

1966
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,879
Speaker 4: it was before it was your studio. It is amazing

1967
01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 4: that so many people can function and breathe in there.

1968
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 2: You know, we can't function or breathe, but go ahead.

1969
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:16,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, But so that I think is part of the

1970
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 4: magic of playing. In preparation for playing on the show

1971
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:23,400
Speaker 4: is to be in that room in close proximity, because

1972
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 4: you there's no avoiding it. Even though Cress has got

1973
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,120
Speaker 4: his booth horn sections in the back lounge. The rest

1974
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 4: of the mad is in this narrow thing behind your board.

1975
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:34,559
Speaker 4: I mean, it is an amazing And then you add

1976
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 4: John mcgoughlin playing five hundred thousand notes.

1977
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:39,640
Speaker 3: You know, every time I pointed.

1978
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 4: At him because it was simply a vamp on one

1979
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 4: chord in between the verses, so we just let him

1980
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 4: fly and as everybody knows, and he was so good

1981
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:50,719
Speaker 4: natured about it. I mean, I have no idea whether

1982
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 4: he had ever heard my name before that day, but

1983
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:56,880
Speaker 4: he went into it so openly right, and it was

1984
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 4: it created a different kind of tension, if any. It

1985
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 4: was like a moment of lightness him playing all those

1986
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:04,120
Speaker 4: crazy But.

1987
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 2: You've played a lot of those tribute shows and fundraising

1988
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:10,040
Speaker 2: shows where everybody comes on that end of.

1989
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 4: This, Yeah, but they not always that well, you know,

1990
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:14,040
Speaker 4: it's rare.

1991
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:17,360
Speaker 3: I've been in a number of very old bands over

1992
01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 3: the years. You know.

1993
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:21,479
Speaker 4: I was once on the stage in a club for

1994
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 4: a birthday show. I was cut through where I ended

1995
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:26,559
Speaker 4: up on stage with James Burton and Jerry Garcia playing

1996
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 4: behind me. You know, that was pretty weird, wonderful, you know,

1997
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 4: and all playing the wrong guitar. But but for to

1998
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 4: have that kind of lock on that on this ominous

1999
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,160
Speaker 4: groove and this kind of hump that that that Quest

2000
01:41:40,240 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 4: found in it in the in the beat, which ended

2001
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 4: up being like another piece for us. That was great.

2002
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 4: I mean that John was playing on it too, was wonderful.

2003
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:53,519
Speaker 4: And Black and White World was a song that wanted

2004
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:55,479
Speaker 4: to go like that. Now that's a song that Quest

2005
01:41:55,520 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 4: have played with us on me already. Had he had

2006
01:41:57,920 --> 01:41:59,439
Speaker 4: he played it with us then there or did he

2007
01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 4: play No.

2008
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:03,680
Speaker 2: Shortly after this appearance he came and played with us.

2009
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 2: He came to the Beacon or something and played Black

2010
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 2: and White World on stage with you.

2011
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 3: Part of the wheel show, Yeah, part of the spinning song.

2012
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:12,479
Speaker 2: Right, right, but you just called it it wasn't chosen

2013
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:12,880
Speaker 2: on the wheel.

2014
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah he did.

2015
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 4: We often cheated in that way when we got in

2016
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:20,599
Speaker 4: the later and we want some song we wanted to play,

2017
01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:20,840
Speaker 4: you know.

2018
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2019
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 4: He actually ends up singing that night because he was

2020
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 4: pushed off the drums store, right.

2021
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 3: It wasn't best pleased.

2022
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:30,760
Speaker 2: I was like, why isn't Pete Thomas universally known as

2023
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:34,000
Speaker 2: one of the greatest British or whatever drummers.

2024
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 4: Met Any drummers from have you met any other drummers. Yeah,

2025
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:39,639
Speaker 4: there's a lot of really maniacal like.

2026
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 2: Really that's one in particular, But.

2027
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:43,920
Speaker 4: I mean there are there are some that really are

2028
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 4: going to tell you all about their own brilliance. There's

2029
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:48,960
Speaker 4: a lot of them that are not as good as

2030
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 4: they that.

2031
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 2: He doesn't need to speak about himself.

2032
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 3: But why is it?

2033
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 4: Why hasn't I think it's been part of that that

2034
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:57,439
Speaker 4: he hasn't been broadcasting it, and partly, you know, big mouth,

2035
01:42:57,439 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 4: he has been kind of taking up all the airspace

2036
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:02,200
Speaker 4: up in front of him for forty five years. I

2037
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:05,360
Speaker 4: absolutely say straight out now I just have I'll tell

2038
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 4: anybody that wants to listen, now, Charlie Wats has gone.

2039
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:11,040
Speaker 4: He's number one. He's the number one rock and roll

2040
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:14,559
Speaker 4: drummer playing today. Wow, I'll say that right out. That's

2041
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 4: all kinds of other kind of music. But as a

2042
01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 4: rock and roll drummer, there's nobody close.

2043
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:21,720
Speaker 2: And be honest, he's playing now as good as he

2044
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:22,320
Speaker 2: played then.

2045
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:24,640
Speaker 4: I think he might actually be playing better now than that.

2046
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 4: And he would say, I think he would admit the fact.

2047
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 4: Like the one thing about going a Spanish model, you

2048
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 4: know the record we did where we re recorded all

2049
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:37,040
Speaker 4: the vocals in Spanish with guest artists to over the

2050
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:40,160
Speaker 4: attraction's original parts. A lot of those artists are very

2051
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 4: much used to the you know, the conveniences of modern

2052
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:47,920
Speaker 4: recording technique. Two of them, in particular, click track, an

2053
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 4: auto tune. There's none other on that. Obviously we didn't

2054
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,160
Speaker 4: have access to that. Neither of those things were really

2055
01:43:54,200 --> 01:43:57,960
Speaker 4: part of our scene. So that was a lot for

2056
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:00,439
Speaker 4: some of those younger artists who used to knowing what

2057
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:03,160
Speaker 4: the tempo was and they've always got that click going

2058
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 4: keeping them in time, and they said, well, what's the

2059
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 4: tempo and we're going well in the first vers is

2060
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 4: that people want me to say this, but our records

2061
01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:13,559
Speaker 4: do speed up a lot, and well they slow down

2062
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:17,080
Speaker 4: sometimes and as they're supposed to, and then certainly there's

2063
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:19,479
Speaker 4: no autitude on them, you know, so thank god.

2064
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, the Roots and Elvis Costello with John McLachlin.

2065
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 2: You can look it up. Yeah, November fifth, twenty ten

2066
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:29,479
Speaker 2: on Fallon and Black and White World, which again had

2067
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,400
Speaker 2: that high fidelity arrangement hump that I'm talking about.

2068
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that.

2069
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 4: Always had it, that was always had it that when

2070
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:39,840
Speaker 4: we arrange it like that it went a different way

2071
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:42,800
Speaker 4: originally that song, Yeah, it was completely different song. It

2072
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 4: was an acoustic folk song. Sounded like a Gray Davis song.

2073
01:44:46,240 --> 01:44:47,720
Speaker 2: Which version you like better.

2074
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,320
Speaker 4: As a story piece of storytelling? The first version is

2075
01:44:51,680 --> 01:44:54,960
Speaker 4: is that's called number two, right, that's a better. That's

2076
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 4: a better for telling the story of the song. That's

2077
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:01,320
Speaker 4: better as a piece of music. I liked the version

2078
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:04,040
Speaker 4: that we played that night, but that was sort of

2079
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 4: like I remember as being in you know, that was

2080
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,760
Speaker 4: a lot of drinking involved in that happy record. So

2081
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:12,960
Speaker 4: there were these episodes where we just get frustrated and

2082
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 4: all be sort of squabbling and there saying, oh fuck it,

2083
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:18,439
Speaker 4: let's just do that. Play it like Little Feet. That

2084
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 4: was actually what it was like. That was us trying

2085
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:23,479
Speaker 4: to play like Little Feet. And if you sort of

2086
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 4: can hear some of their wilder stuff, not particularly sailing

2087
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,799
Speaker 4: Shoes kind of record, you can sort of get that

2088
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 4: that that Pete is kind of referencing Richie Heywood. It

2089
01:45:32,439 --> 01:45:35,400
Speaker 4: was this great drummer that played with that group. People

2090
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,599
Speaker 4: don't much know that their their music now so much,

2091
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,479
Speaker 4: but then there were they were a band that you know,

2092
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 4: we all admired, and so that was in our references

2093
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:45,320
Speaker 4: along with all the other things.

2094
01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 2: You know, we're talking about drummers, but but let's get

2095
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:51,439
Speaker 2: back to guitarists like John McLaughlin And you mentioned Jerry Garcia.

2096
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 2: So can you just tell us what it was like

2097
01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:56,639
Speaker 2: to know him and to play with him on stage

2098
01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:57,720
Speaker 2: a couple of times.

2099
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:01,040
Speaker 4: I only played with him one time. I spent a

2100
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 4: little time with them. I did an interview for a

2101
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 4: magazine about.

2102
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm only asked because I know you're a fan as well.

2103
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I just think it was there was a

2104
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 4: period where I really did really love the records really

2105
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:16,800
Speaker 4: from I never really did like the long improvisational things

2106
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 4: as much. That didn't fascinate me as much. I liked

2107
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:21,720
Speaker 4: the sound of some of their records that are kind

2108
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:24,960
Speaker 4: of strange, kind of folk baroque, kind of psychedelic stuff.

2109
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:29,639
Speaker 4: And I really love the stuff that's very you can

2110
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:32,960
Speaker 4: hear in so called Americana records. Now all these things

2111
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:37,639
Speaker 4: that echo the Dead from seventy to about seventy four,

2112
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:42,120
Speaker 4: but specifically American Beauty and the record that preceded it,

2113
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:45,439
Speaker 4: wor Commen's Dead. They just have really good songs. They

2114
01:46:45,479 --> 01:46:48,639
Speaker 4: did this really good good like maybe twenty songs that

2115
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,439
Speaker 4: were really unbeatable, and I saw them play a couple

2116
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 4: of times at that time and they were terrific, and

2117
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 4: I just didn't when they went off into the other thing.

2118
01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:00,240
Speaker 4: I could think of other music that extend I did

2119
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 4: like that that held my interest Moble, but I could

2120
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 4: see why people liked it, it just wasn't my thing.

2121
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:09,760
Speaker 2: I guess the next thing chronologically as far as leading

2122
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:13,879
Speaker 2: up to Wysup Ghost is when you graciously cut vocals

2123
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 2: for the Swindles project. For the Squeeze Covers record, you

2124
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:20,720
Speaker 2: and the Roots did a version of someone Else's Heart,

2125
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:22,760
Speaker 2: and that was certainly fun and the first time I

2126
01:47:22,800 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 2: got to do that, but I felt it more like

2127
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 2: that record was a bit of a proving ground for

2128
01:47:26,840 --> 01:47:31,520
Speaker 2: a larger project with the Roots, Like.

2129
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:32,719
Speaker 4: I didn't know that was in your mind at the time,

2130
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 4: but for me it was like.

2131
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 2: It's more looking back on it, it was really like

2132
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:36,920
Speaker 2: I loved.

2133
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:40,800
Speaker 4: It because I produced the original version obviously in East

2134
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:43,439
Speaker 4: Side Story, and I quit when I was ahead as

2135
01:47:43,479 --> 01:47:45,960
Speaker 4: a producer, right, So I mean I had three hit

2136
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:49,879
Speaker 4: albums and succession as a producer of other people's records,

2137
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:52,600
Speaker 4: and I wasn't credited as a co producer on my

2138
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 4: early records. I mean, Nick would say from Enforces onwards,

2139
01:47:56,080 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 4: I had a fairly strong input on the way things

2140
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 4: went and sounded and final mixes, but I was never credited.

2141
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:06,360
Speaker 4: I deliberately didn't credit myself on Imperial Bedroom, even though

2142
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 4: I was the co producer effectively of that record, because

2143
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 4: I gave so much of the responsibility for the way

2144
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:15,599
Speaker 4: the record actually sounded to Jeff Emory. But the music,

2145
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:18,479
Speaker 4: the musical input, and the musical arrangement of the record,

2146
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:20,839
Speaker 4: everything that you would call production now was my idea.

2147
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:24,200
Speaker 4: You know, weeks in the studio on my own, just

2148
01:48:24,240 --> 01:48:27,240
Speaker 4: me and Jeff. Half of the Recession was just me

2149
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:30,280
Speaker 4: and him. So when I got to do some of

2150
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:37,519
Speaker 4: my own production eighty eighty one and eighty five, it

2151
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:40,840
Speaker 4: was only usually with either with friends or bands that

2152
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:43,519
Speaker 4: I thought somebody else would fuck up. So that's how

2153
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:46,639
Speaker 4: I came to do The Specials, which was a band

2154
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 4: that had a very vivid sound live and a genius

2155
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:54,320
Speaker 4: kind of arranger, Jerry Dammers, and I just needed to

2156
01:48:54,360 --> 01:49:02,560
Speaker 4: protect his vision, as I understood it, from any frailties

2157
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 4: that I could detect in the actual playing and they

2158
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:09,040
Speaker 4: didn't have many because they were really very balanced in

2159
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:12,320
Speaker 4: most cases, and the same was true of The Poes,

2160
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:15,320
Speaker 4: which was the last record I produced. The band obviously

2161
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:19,479
Speaker 4: a genius songwriter and a mixed bag of instrumentalists, so

2162
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 4: sometimes I'd have to step in and maybe bring a

2163
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 4: kind of steadying thing somewhere in the instrumental you know, ensemble,

2164
01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:29,040
Speaker 4: But the rest of the time I just tried to

2165
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 4: catch it while it was going on. Squeeze is entirely

2166
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:37,360
Speaker 4: different because you've got like incredible facile in the American sense,

2167
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:41,840
Speaker 4: in the sense that Glenn has tremendous musical facility. Glenn

2168
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:46,080
Speaker 4: Hilborough as a composer, as a singer, as a very

2169
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:49,040
Speaker 4: very underrated guitar player, but he's like the Pete Thomas

2170
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 4: of the guitar you know, you really you never see

2171
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,759
Speaker 4: his name quoted as great guitar players. Glenn should easily

2172
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:59,800
Speaker 4: be in that bag. Great melodic you know, the signatures

2173
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 4: melodies of his solos, it's like George Harrison, they're like

2174
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:06,280
Speaker 4: like hooks and themselves. He's not just string bending kind

2175
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 4: of fancy, you know, dazzling kind of playing the other

2176
01:50:09,080 --> 01:50:14,080
Speaker 4: way can do that too, and incredible lyricist in Christofford

2177
01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 4: and the two voices in this octave kind of relationship,

2178
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,240
Speaker 4: and in that bad of course they had they had

2179
01:50:20,240 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 4: Paul character as well. He'd replaced Charles Hallan, the original

2180
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 4: keyboard player. And then I knew that was the secret weapon.

2181
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,439
Speaker 4: So that's how we made Tempted, which was the big hit.

2182
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 4: And that was my ideas to do it like that,

2183
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:34,040
Speaker 4: to sort of take it and like as if it

2184
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:37,680
Speaker 4: were an Algreen song and put the kind of like

2185
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:42,320
Speaker 4: little single line kind of clickerty click clin of rhythm

2186
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:44,559
Speaker 4: guitar that runs through it. It's not playing a backbeat,

2187
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 4: don't that's me playing that, you know, not singing background vocals,

2188
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:53,599
Speaker 4: singing background vocals. I mean I listened to background vocals

2189
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:55,960
Speaker 4: another kind of ludicrous. And I was kind of doing

2190
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:58,679
Speaker 4: all of the Temptations parts.

2191
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:00,960
Speaker 3: You know, I'm doing but coffee in bed too.

2192
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm doing the bass voice as well as the

2193
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,560
Speaker 4: false htto. But but but we didn't know anybody we

2194
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 4: could get to do that, so we're just doing it

2195
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:10,479
Speaker 4: in imitation of records that we loved, you know, and

2196
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:13,120
Speaker 4: they and it seemed to just work to break it

2197
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:15,280
Speaker 4: up like that. To divide it up, make it more

2198
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 4: of a group composition.

2199
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:19,720
Speaker 2: You know, is the reason you haven't self produced more

2200
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 2: of your records because getting a producer is it's just

2201
01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:28,240
Speaker 2: another opportunity to collaborate with another great music mind. Well

2202
01:51:28,280 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 2: I haven't, or do you have some like disaffinity for

2203
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:32,360
Speaker 2: it or no?

2204
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I think there's a couple of records that

2205
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:39,240
Speaker 4: are definitely I have to take more responsibility for than others.

2206
01:51:39,400 --> 01:51:44,080
Speaker 4: I mean, but I mean, you co produce a lot

2207
01:51:44,080 --> 01:51:48,200
Speaker 4: of record I co produced, you know. I mean, there's

2208
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:49,880
Speaker 4: no doubt I didn't have anything to do with the

2209
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:53,640
Speaker 4: sound of King of America, but that's I'm credited as

2210
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 4: a co producer on that because I had, you know,

2211
01:51:56,000 --> 01:51:59,640
Speaker 4: this sort of like brotherlike partnership with Temabnett from the

2212
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:02,960
Speaker 4: MINUTEIME met him, and there was a lot of things

2213
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:05,160
Speaker 4: that I wanted to try and do on that record,

2214
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:09,320
Speaker 4: which changed because we were going to acoustic instruments for

2215
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,240
Speaker 4: the most part. In the first part of it. It

2216
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 4: was supposed to be half acoustic half electric, and really

2217
01:52:14,120 --> 01:52:17,280
Speaker 4: because the success rate at the first sessions, which were

2218
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:21,320
Speaker 4: with the Hollywood based musicians, you know, the many of

2219
01:52:21,320 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 4: whom had played that they mean ex Wrecking Crew kind

2220
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:28,000
Speaker 4: of and seventies here of Jim Caltoner and people like that.

2221
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:30,840
Speaker 4: When the attractions arrived at the sessions, was nothing for

2222
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:33,240
Speaker 4: them to play. There was nothing, don't know songs left

2223
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:36,200
Speaker 4: Sude Lights, which was a really great one, but there

2224
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 4: was a tense session. It was a tense session that

2225
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:41,120
Speaker 4: added to go down ver well because they still saw

2226
01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:43,320
Speaker 4: it as a as a you know, unified band.

2227
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:44,840
Speaker 3: I'd want to be on that record too.

2228
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:47,640
Speaker 4: I don't know that they particularly wanted to play the

2229
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:50,080
Speaker 4: other songs. I don't think there was much feeling for

2230
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:51,839
Speaker 4: those other songs where.

2231
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:52,280
Speaker 3: I was headed.

2232
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:55,479
Speaker 4: But we did make one more record, which again was

2233
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:58,559
Speaker 4: where we gave it the control to Nick Lowe. I

2234
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 4: had a little bit more put in terms of processing

2235
01:53:01,479 --> 01:53:04,040
Speaker 4: things that I maybe had done earlier. But it was

2236
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:06,800
Speaker 4: Nick's decision to say that's an old Bird, which is

2237
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:10,080
Speaker 4: a pretty great record. That's a Nick low idea to

2238
01:53:10,160 --> 01:53:13,320
Speaker 4: cut between the two keys and have this sort of

2239
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:15,840
Speaker 4: Strawberry Feels Forever incident where it just sort of goes

2240
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:19,040
Speaker 4: into phasing and comes out in another key. These are

2241
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:21,280
Speaker 4: things you'd assume I had kind of picked up from

2242
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:23,680
Speaker 4: Jeff Emertt, but that was all next idea. So it

2243
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:26,240
Speaker 4: was like, so you know, he was capable of getting

2244
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:30,360
Speaker 4: into there wasn't always in the bash it down kind

2245
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:34,160
Speaker 4: of thing. He could also hone ideas. I also produced

2246
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:36,679
Speaker 4: him around that time as well, which was the only

2247
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:37,840
Speaker 4: time I ever produced Nick.

2248
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:41,200
Speaker 2: A lot of artists may not want some other fucking

2249
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:44,080
Speaker 2: genius in the room and keep their album. I wanted

2250
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:45,960
Speaker 2: to be the way that I have it in my

2251
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 2: mind and somebody.

2252
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:50,360
Speaker 4: Else I think you I mean certainly with Debon, I

2253
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:53,600
Speaker 4: think it was the It was his advocacy for the

2254
01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:55,560
Speaker 4: simple storytelling.

2255
01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 3: You know.

2256
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:58,640
Speaker 4: I had this idea that you that I wanted to

2257
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:02,200
Speaker 4: write with the that I liked about Hank Williams songs.

2258
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 4: Even though I was never going to be a country singer.

2259
01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:06,280
Speaker 4: I think had already proved that by going to Nashville

2260
01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:07,560
Speaker 4: and cutting.

2261
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 3: A whole record.

2262
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:08,960
Speaker 2: It's a great record.

2263
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:11,000
Speaker 4: No I liked that record, but I mean it was

2264
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 4: I had to accept that that Billy Cheryl didn't really

2265
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,960
Speaker 4: know why it was those singing those songs, and he

2266
01:54:17,080 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 4: just brought where he could recognize the ability to try

2267
01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:22,439
Speaker 4: and make a hit. He did what he did, which

2268
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:27,400
Speaker 4: was put the you know, make those sweetening devices which

2269
01:54:27,400 --> 01:54:29,800
Speaker 4: he developed over the hits with George Shows and Charlie

2270
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:31,680
Speaker 4: Rich which was the whole reason I wanted to work

2271
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 4: with him. With the benefit of hindsight, I can think

2272
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:37,720
Speaker 4: of maybe three or four other producers. I might have

2273
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 4: got to the heart of what I liked about those

2274
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 4: songs a little easier, but I wasn't that my most

2275
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:47,680
Speaker 4: kind of reasonable or disciplined at that time. There was

2276
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 4: a lot of drinking going on on that record, as

2277
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:53,080
Speaker 4: well as Nine Day, But you know, like tear really

2278
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:55,840
Speaker 4: that we were on in Nashville. You know that that

2279
01:54:56,120 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 4: was a miracle that any record.

2280
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:57,960
Speaker 3: Came out of it.

2281
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:00,560
Speaker 2: Frankly, there's some video of that, right, Yeah, there is

2282
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:03,560
Speaker 2: a documentary, but it's pretty it's pretty sodden at.

2283
01:55:03,480 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 4: Times, you know. Yeah, and kind of modeling.

2284
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:11,200
Speaker 2: So just to continue on the timeline, someone Else's Heart

2285
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 2: is where we left off. And then you came on

2286
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:16,080
Speaker 2: for what we were calling Springsteen Week on the fount

2287
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:17,560
Speaker 2: That's where.

2288
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:19,680
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about fire, That's right, that's right.

2289
01:55:20,440 --> 01:55:24,560
Speaker 2: Brilliant diskies just with Quest and James poyser as an arrangement,

2290
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:26,200
Speaker 2: just a drums, piano, vocal thing.

2291
01:55:26,280 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I had done it as a pretty much

2292
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 4: I'd done it as a solo, and I cut it

2293
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:35,280
Speaker 4: with just a rhythm section with Pete or Well.

2294
01:55:35,160 --> 01:55:36,680
Speaker 3: It was on the extra extras.

2295
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was actually was a demo I cut for

2296
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,000
Speaker 4: for George Jones. I had done it a really weird

2297
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 4: assignment where I'd been asked to interview him for Interview magazine,

2298
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:50,160
Speaker 4: which is even stranger. George Jones an interview magazine doesn't

2299
01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 4: really go. You know, we were on either end of

2300
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:56,400
Speaker 4: a line from wherever he lived outside of Nashville. I

2301
01:55:56,440 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 4: think I had some villa somewhere he lived, and I

2302
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:00,800
Speaker 4: don't know where he lived in any way, he was

2303
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:03,160
Speaker 4: in America, and I was kind of talking to him

2304
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:07,200
Speaker 4: from Dublin, and it was I was asking him why

2305
01:56:07,240 --> 01:56:09,880
Speaker 4: he had never looked like Willie Nelson had done to

2306
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:13,480
Speaker 4: kind of a broader world of songs, because I really

2307
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:16,480
Speaker 4: had these same songwriters that gave him tunes over the years,

2308
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:19,200
Speaker 4: and truthfully, many of them were unworthy of his voice.

2309
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:22,760
Speaker 4: And so I started naming songs that I thought he

2310
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:25,960
Speaker 4: could sing, and he had not heard of any of them.

2311
01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 4: I mean, there were songs by songwriters he'd never considered

2312
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 4: and sort of I said, well, maybe you know, I

2313
01:56:32,600 --> 01:56:34,400
Speaker 4: could send you some of those. And I was trying

2314
01:56:34,400 --> 01:56:36,960
Speaker 4: to basically get a gig producing him, and.

2315
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:39,080
Speaker 3: He didn't quite take the bait, so I thought, well

2316
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:39,760
Speaker 3: he didn't.

2317
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:42,160
Speaker 4: He didn't ask me to do this, but I'm going

2318
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:43,440
Speaker 4: to go in on my own dime.

2319
01:56:43,480 --> 01:56:45,480
Speaker 2: And you had worked with him long before.

2320
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:48,400
Speaker 4: I had recorded with him in nineteen seventy nine on Try,

2321
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:51,040
Speaker 4: and have been on TV with him Stranger interim and

2322
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:53,440
Speaker 4: sung with him on a television show a couple of times.

2323
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:56,760
Speaker 4: So I didn't know him, and I just went for

2324
01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:59,480
Speaker 4: my own amusement as much as anything to go in.

2325
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,840
Speaker 4: And I did, I think ten songs in one day,

2326
01:57:03,920 --> 01:57:08,000
Speaker 4: just recorded them like me, Pete Thomas, and the bass

2327
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:10,720
Speaker 4: player that Pete used to play with before the Attractions,

2328
01:57:11,240 --> 01:57:14,320
Speaker 4: a guy called Paul Riley, who'd been the engineer at

2329
01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:18,400
Speaker 4: Nicklaus Studio Amperor and had been my first choice for

2330
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:22,480
Speaker 4: the attractions. He'd been he'd turned me down, a guy

2331
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:25,160
Speaker 4: called Paul Riley, and I had actually asked him to

2332
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 4: be in a band before we had the Attractions. What

2333
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:28,400
Speaker 4: did he play bass?

2334
01:57:28,920 --> 01:57:29,160
Speaker 3: Yeah?

2335
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:32,640
Speaker 4: And he didn't want to do it. So now Paul

2336
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 4: is a great bass pay and he played in a

2337
01:57:34,480 --> 01:57:36,360
Speaker 4: group called Rugulator, which was a great group.

2338
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:40,720
Speaker 3: And he ended up being a valuable.

2339
01:57:40,440 --> 01:57:44,440
Speaker 4: Engineer at Nicklas Studio, which was a little home studio

2340
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 4: which had been own by Tony Vasconti. Tony Vasconti had

2341
01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:50,000
Speaker 4: downed that building and had a little studio where he'd

2342
01:57:50,040 --> 01:57:52,520
Speaker 4: mixed a bunch of things, sparks and diamond dogs and things,

2343
01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:54,160
Speaker 4: and then Nick did a bunch of things in there.

2344
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:56,120
Speaker 3: I cut with Johnny Cash.

2345
01:57:55,880 --> 01:58:00,080
Speaker 4: There, So there was like it was a tiny.

2346
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:01,960
Speaker 3: You wouldn't even know it was there. It was a

2347
01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:03,440
Speaker 3: little bit like the Tardis, you know.

2348
01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:05,600
Speaker 4: It was like you'd be walking along you would never

2349
01:58:05,640 --> 01:58:07,800
Speaker 4: guess it was a studio inside that building, you know,

2350
01:58:07,800 --> 01:58:09,600
Speaker 4: it didn't look like it looked like a house.

2351
01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:13,520
Speaker 2: So is like the whole bonus disc of Kojak Variety,

2352
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 2: like all those demos, like you're going to make ever lunch?

2353
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:19,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, You're gonna make me lonesome. I don't know

2354
01:58:19,360 --> 01:58:22,160
Speaker 4: what I put out in the end. How long has

2355
01:58:22,160 --> 01:58:24,800
Speaker 4: this been going on? George Gershman song. I always heard

2356
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:26,400
Speaker 4: that as a country song. I thought that could be done.

2357
01:58:26,440 --> 01:58:28,000
Speaker 4: Drig shows could sing the hell out of that.

2358
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:31,280
Speaker 2: So on March first, twenty twelve, you came on and

2359
01:58:31,320 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 2: played brilliant disguise in this totally weird arrangement. I guess

2360
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:39,360
Speaker 2: it's a very spare, very sparse yes, yeah and also

2361
01:58:39,960 --> 01:58:43,360
Speaker 2: fire Bruce Springsteen's song as made famous by the Pointer

2362
01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:45,120
Speaker 2: Sisters and yeah.

2363
01:58:44,680 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 3: And that's where you added two yeah too hot.

2364
01:58:48,440 --> 01:58:53,000
Speaker 4: Which I'd cut with the specials, which was righttles.

2365
01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:54,280
Speaker 3: He said again.

2366
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:57,800
Speaker 4: You see, that's the thing is so we that I

2367
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:01,000
Speaker 4: don't know that so much that people I don't know

2368
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:03,040
Speaker 4: whether they realized that the kind of second kind of

2369
01:59:03,960 --> 01:59:07,640
Speaker 4: like the way a lot of musicians really know a

2370
01:59:07,640 --> 01:59:12,120
Speaker 4: lot of R and B references. You had all these

2371
01:59:12,240 --> 01:59:14,360
Speaker 4: kind of bands that were really kind of blues fanatics

2372
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 4: in the early sixties. By the late sixties, you had

2373
01:59:17,160 --> 01:59:20,400
Speaker 4: people who like that are my age and a little

2374
01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:24,760
Speaker 4: bit older younger than me, who had totally heard reggae

2375
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:26,960
Speaker 4: in a way that I just don't think it was

2376
01:59:27,000 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 4: part of American music in quite the same way.

2377
01:59:29,760 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 3: You know.

2378
01:59:29,960 --> 01:59:33,160
Speaker 4: It's just like Jimmy Cliff and then Bob Marley and

2379
01:59:33,200 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 4: a few other one off hits. But we had a

2380
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:38,120
Speaker 4: lot of it, you know, we had a lot of records,

2381
01:59:38,160 --> 01:59:41,240
Speaker 4: sort of blue beat records, and if they weren't actually

2382
01:59:41,240 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 4: in the charts, they were like the sort of secret

2383
01:59:44,360 --> 01:59:47,440
Speaker 4: music like that we were talking about Northern soul, that

2384
01:59:47,560 --> 01:59:51,360
Speaker 4: kind of reggae that from scad through rockstady through reggae

2385
01:59:51,760 --> 01:59:55,680
Speaker 4: before Male and Whalers. It was like we all knew

2386
01:59:55,680 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 4: these vocal groups that sounded sort of like the impressions

2387
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:01,920
Speaker 4: that were all sort of like influenced by that close

2388
02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 4: harmony groups sometimes doing covers. You know, people, I think

2389
02:00:07,120 --> 02:00:09,600
Speaker 4: the question and I had this talk about this before.

2390
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:13,400
Speaker 4: Don't don't dun, Dun dum, don't.

2391
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:13,480
Speaker 3: Don't go don't dun.

2392
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:16,800
Speaker 4: Everybody says that's I'll take you there, but it's not.

2393
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:20,000
Speaker 4: It's from a reggae record that they were covering, you know.

2394
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:23,000
Speaker 4: So it's like this cross talk between all these musics,

2395
02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:23,240
Speaker 4: you know.

2396
02:00:23,560 --> 02:00:25,440
Speaker 2: So I think this is kind of that point where

2397
02:00:25,440 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 2: you said that famous line standing in the Tartist, which

2398
02:00:28,440 --> 02:00:32,919
Speaker 2: was like, hey, uh, we've recorded half of Get Happy already,

2399
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:37,280
Speaker 2: you know, uh, or remixed or whatever recorded Get Happy,

2400
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:40,240
Speaker 2: Maybe we should make a record. And that's when me

2401
02:00:40,280 --> 02:00:41,800
Speaker 2: and Quest looked at each other, you know, and.

2402
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:44,919
Speaker 4: I see that's not you see that's you. That's the victors.

2403
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:47,280
Speaker 4: The victors get to write the history.

2404
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:47,960
Speaker 3: Now.

2405
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 4: My memory is as I was walking off from the

2406
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:54,520
Speaker 4: set that that second or third time, I don't know

2407
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:57,880
Speaker 4: which time it was, and Quest saying to me, you

2408
02:00:58,000 --> 02:00:58,920
Speaker 4: know you we're going to.

2409
02:00:58,920 --> 02:00:59,560
Speaker 3: Make a record.

2410
02:01:00,360 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 4: So I don't know which which of those remarks happened first.

2411
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:05,920
Speaker 4: Both things could have happened. Maybe I said that because

2412
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:08,680
Speaker 4: he said that. It's true the other way around. Why's

2413
02:01:08,760 --> 02:01:09,160
Speaker 4: up Ghosts?

2414
02:01:09,160 --> 02:01:11,360
Speaker 2: Which you know connects with this conversation that I want

2415
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:14,560
Speaker 2: to have if if he ever comes back, is you

2416
02:01:14,600 --> 02:01:18,280
Speaker 2: know the ultimate example, do you have to pee? Tune

2417
02:01:18,320 --> 02:01:20,960
Speaker 2: in next week to see if Elvis needs to pee.

2418
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:24,280
Speaker 2: This has been part one of our Questlove Supreme interview

2419
02:01:24,320 --> 02:01:28,120
Speaker 2: with Elvis Costello. Check out part two when I squirmed

2420
02:01:28,120 --> 02:01:31,440
Speaker 2: some more as this music monster lets loose and jumps

2421
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:34,680
Speaker 2: the skinny on wise up ghost his collab with the Roots.

2422
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 1: My name is Sugar Steve, I Love my job. Questlove

2423
02:01:39,320 --> 02:01:43,760
Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from

2424
02:01:43,760 --> 02:01:47,640
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

2425
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:49,280
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.