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Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast

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Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable

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Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV

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Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: We are your host. I'm a vet GENTI.

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Speaker 4: Lay and I'm Raschia Peccuerero and as always, our text

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Speaker 4: and producer Trevor Young is with us.

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Speaker 1: Hello, good morning, good afternoon, and good night.

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Speaker 3: All the things.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when people are listening to this, so

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Speaker 1: just had to get all the covered.

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Speaker 4: I know it could be any time of day, but

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Speaker 4: they are listening.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I wanted to maybe do today just

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Speaker 1: before we get going, is talk about some important podcasts

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Speaker 1: that are out there, you know, some of our contemporaries

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Speaker 1: and some of the work they're doing. One show that

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Speaker 1: is on the Tenderfoot side of things is a new

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Speaker 1: true crime show called La Monstra that I think everybody

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Speaker 1: should be listening to. Matt Graves who is originally from Austin,

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Speaker 1: Texas like me. We bonded over this when I talked

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Speaker 1: to him once. Is the host of the show. He

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Speaker 1: moved to Belgium decades ago and got entwined in the

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Speaker 1: story about a Belgian serial killer named Mark Dutroux. And

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Speaker 1: it's a really fascinating story of a number of people

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Speaker 1: who were missing and murdered in the eighties and nineties

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Speaker 1: by Mark Dutroux. So it's going now and for anybody

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Speaker 1: who hasn't started listening, I couldn't recommend it anymore. It's

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Speaker 1: just incredible. So I wanted to throw that out there.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say that we're making a show

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Speaker 1: right now. It's actually the third season of a show

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Speaker 1: called Thirteen Days of Halloween. It's just a fun little

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Speaker 1: anthology horror story for October people. So but yeah, are

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Speaker 1: are you all listening to anything? Or anything you guys

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about? So?

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Speaker 4: Well, Number one, I have to tell you Trevor Vanna

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Speaker 4: is obsessed with and please tell me Sola Monstra, right,

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Speaker 4: that's how you pronounce it monstra. So she started down

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Speaker 4: that rabbit hole because prior to you know, root of

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Speaker 4: Evil and facing Evil. She hadn't ever really listened to

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Speaker 4: true crime, and she realized that because she she was

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Speaker 4: recently diagnosed with ADHD, that she was listening to music

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Speaker 4: when she was working and she wasn't staying focused. But

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Speaker 4: when she was listening to Facing Evil, she was like,

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Speaker 4: maybe I should try other true crime shows because I

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Speaker 4: kept sending her all these other shows because I like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'll self help and Happy Galucky shows a

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Speaker 4: lot of the time. And so she started Withla Monstra

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Speaker 4: and now she's listened to everything that Tenderfoot and iHeart

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Speaker 4: have done together, but her favorite thus far is Atlanta Monster. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: She just loves really everything you have done, Trevor.

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Speaker 1: I'll have to hear that, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just have to say that I love

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Speaker 2: The ten News and I know it is, you know,

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Speaker 2: four children, and we are so lucky that, you know,

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Speaker 2: our producer Tracy Kaplan, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, is the head of that show.

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Speaker 2: And my lovely niece Leilani has you know, been a correspondent.

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Speaker 4: She's a tenor.

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Speaker 3: She's a tenor.

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Speaker 2: But I just love it because it's so informative, yes

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Speaker 2: for the kids, but even for us adults. So that's

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Speaker 2: what I am listening to.

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Speaker 4: All right, So with all of that being said, Trevor,

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Speaker 4: I would be honored if you take us through today's case.

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Speaker 3: We're the cast from My Sister Sam. Now one of

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Speaker 3: us is gone forever.

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Speaker 5: Rebecca Schaeffer was only twenty one years old when her

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Speaker 5: life was taken by a single shot from a handgun.

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Speaker 5: There's a fellow here that's been here are lots of

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Speaker 5: times who has a large bouquet and about a five

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Speaker 5: foot teddy bear, and he's left it with us, and

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Speaker 5: he wants us to deliver it to Rebecca Shaeffer. Zenka's

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Speaker 5: testifies that Barto hired him to find Rebecca Shaeffer's birthdate

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Speaker 5: and home address in May nineteen eighty nine, two months

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Speaker 5: before the murder.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Shaeffer was a twenty one year old model and

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Speaker 1: actor who was killed in Los Angeles, California, in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine. She was known for roles in TV shows

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Speaker 1: like My Sister Sam and the film Scenes from the

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Speaker 1: Class Struggle in Beverly Hills. One person who watched her

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Speaker 1: developed an obsession with Rebecca. This man attempted to meet

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Speaker 1: Rebecca multiple times and even hired a private investigator to

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Speaker 1: find her home address. On January nineteenth, nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: that fan showed up at Rebecca's door. She politely asked

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Speaker 1: him to leave, but he showed up again a few

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Speaker 1: hours later. He pulled out a gun and shot her

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Speaker 1: point blank in the doorway, and she died before reaching

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Speaker 1: the hospital. The stalker was quickly arrested. He was convicted

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Speaker 1: of first degree murder and given a life sentence without

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Speaker 1: the possibility of parole. Rebecca Schaeffer is one of many

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Speaker 1: women who have faced violence at the hands of a stalker,

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Speaker 1: and for high profile individuals, stalkers can be particularly dangerous

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Speaker 1: and difficult to manage. And so who was Rebecca Shaeffer,

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Speaker 1: who was the man who murdered her? And what does

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Speaker 1: the story tell us about parasocial relationships and how they

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Speaker 1: often lead to dangerous situations.

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Speaker 4: So that's all so much, right, I mean, every case

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Speaker 4: that we talk about is so much. But when we

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Speaker 4: first started looking at cases, I knew I wanted to

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Speaker 4: do Rebecca Shaeffer's case because I remember being such a

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Speaker 4: big fan of hers. You know, I was really young

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Speaker 4: and the show she was on was all about you know, sisters.

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Speaker 4: My sister Sam was one of my favorite shows when

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Speaker 4: I was a kid. But I couldn't fathom how someone

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Speaker 4: could just go to her home and shoot and kill her, right,

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Speaker 4: And I wanted to know more. And I do remember

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Speaker 4: initially like knowing all the good things that happened after that,

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Speaker 4: and because of that, and that's why I wanted to

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Speaker 4: to talk about it. But you know, I was thinking

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Speaker 4: about stalking and about if that had ever happened to

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Speaker 4: like me or Evet or you know, thankfully nothing like

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Speaker 4: that has ever happened. But anytime you put yourself in

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Speaker 4: the public eye, you're vulnerable, right, Yeah, And we even have,

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Speaker 4: you know, sadly, we have some cyberstockers that we've had

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Speaker 4: to keep it bay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everything that you said is very true.

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Speaker 2: And you know, what we do know is the majority

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Speaker 2: of stockings that take place in this country, they are

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Speaker 2: perpetrated by someone that the victim knows.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, like an.

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Speaker 2: Ex boyfriend or you know, a friend, I mean someone

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Speaker 2: that they know, a coworker, yeah, someone that they know.

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Speaker 2: But then there are people that are in the public eye,

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Speaker 2: like Rebecca Schaeffer, and they're stalkers. They usually have no

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Speaker 2: prior relationship to those that they pray upon, and yet

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Speaker 2: they behave right as if they already know them, right,

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Speaker 2: Like that is someone that they already have a relationship with,

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Speaker 2: and they don't.

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Speaker 4: That is they're infatuated with them, right m Yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: a real problem, and I think that's that happens with

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Speaker 4: a lot of celebrities. You know, it happened back then,

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Speaker 4: it's happening now. I mean, nearly one in three women

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Speaker 4: and one in six men have experienced stalking at some

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Speaker 4: point in their lifetime. And that's according to the Stocking

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Speaker 4: Prevention Awareness and Resource Center. And of course that behavior

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Speaker 4: can range from harassment to threats to invasion of privacy

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Speaker 4: two of course more serious crimes like assault or even murder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to be potentially an even more risky

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Speaker 1: thing in the age of social media. I think, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, people who are high profile are now like

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Speaker 1: making their lives more accessible and visible through things like

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Speaker 1: social media, and so I think people have to be

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Speaker 1: even more careful now, you know, especially what kind of

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Speaker 1: presence they have on Instagram or Facebook or what have you,

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Speaker 1: because you know, all of a sudden, you're posting pictures

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Speaker 1: of your family and your kids and your fans now

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Speaker 1: know who your kids are, what inside of your house

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Speaker 1: looks like, you know, all this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they know your location. You have to be very conscious,

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Speaker 2: you know, of being on social media and Russia and

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Speaker 2: I have this conversation all the time and again with me.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a love hate relationship because of that.

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Speaker 2: Like I just don't feel that everybody needs to know,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're whereabouts at all times because of situations

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Speaker 2: like this.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I will say, you know, for me

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Speaker 4: of course personally, like yes, I am very open on

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Speaker 4: social media. But Mom gave us a really good tip

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Speaker 4: years ago, especially when Facebook first started. She was like,

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Speaker 4: you know, baby, just always, you know, post your location

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Speaker 4: after you've left, you know. I mean, and I've had

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Speaker 4: especially like right after I was on the Biggest Loser

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Speaker 4: and Facebook was just kind of starting, I happened to

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Speaker 4: check in somewhere and a fan you know, showed up

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Speaker 4: at Red Robin where I was having a burger and

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Speaker 4: like just wanted a photo. But like what if that

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Speaker 4: would have been someone like Rebecca's stalker? You know, Like

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to balance it, especially being a mom and

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Speaker 4: having a family and all the things and my sister Evet,

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Speaker 4: And I know, Trevor, you're you're much more private too,

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Speaker 4: like you both teach me. Well, I'm doing my best

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Speaker 4: to be open yet still you know, share and still

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Speaker 4: be protected as well.

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Speaker 2: But let's get back to Rebecca. I mean, we know

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Speaker 2: she was so very young, and she was twenty one

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Speaker 2: years old, right, Trevor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, she, much like Dominique Dunn, was very

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Speaker 1: much at the beginning of her career. Dominique Dounn was

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Speaker 1: another actor in Hollywood who we talked about a couple

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Speaker 1: episodes ago, and you know, like Dominique, she had just

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Speaker 1: started to make a name for herself on TV. Primarily

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Speaker 1: I already mentioned the show My Sister Sam, which y'all

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Speaker 1: had mentioned as well, which she was actually on with

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Speaker 1: Pam Dauber, and that show ran for two seasons before

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Speaker 1: it was canceled in nineteen eighty eight. Did either of

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Speaker 1: you watch the show?

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Speaker 4: I was heartbroken when it was canceled. Oh my god,

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Speaker 4: I was obsessed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we totally watched this show and it was so

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Speaker 2: cool because you know, it was filmed as if it

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Speaker 2: was in San Francisco, you know, so to see the

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Speaker 2: cable cars and all that before I'd ever come to

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Speaker 2: San Francisco. Was like, you just loved it in the

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Speaker 2: chemistry that they had, you know, between the two sisters.

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Speaker 3: It's like Russia.

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Speaker 4: We always of course, of course, yeah, but I was.

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Speaker 4: I was actually really really sad when it was canceled.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's because, if I remember correctly, it's

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Speaker 4: because it moved to a different night, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, Like it had a really bad, you know spot,

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Speaker 4: and it was up against the facts of life, like

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Speaker 4: you know, everybody loves the facts of life, so it

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Speaker 4: was kind of dead in the water when it moved

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Speaker 4: to a different night. But yeah, I and I just

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Speaker 4: loved the chemistry between yeah, the two women on and

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Speaker 4: off screen, and you know, we'll get into that more

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Speaker 4: because Pam, Pam loved Rebecca. Yeah, yeah, and so funny too,

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Speaker 4: like of course, you know watching my sister Sam, like I,

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Speaker 4: I of course love that show. But I had no

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Speaker 4: idea that Rebecca spent a bunch of time in Oregon,

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Speaker 4: where my wife and I live, and she was actually

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Speaker 4: born in Eugene, Oregon, near University of Oregon Go Ducks.

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Speaker 4: The Schaeffer family was Jewish, and as a child, Rebecca

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Speaker 4: considered become a rabbi when she grew up, before she

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Speaker 4: became the famous actress that she became. She began modeling

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Speaker 4: in her junior year of high school and was even

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Speaker 4: featured in print ads and was also an extra in

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Speaker 4: TV and film. And Eugene, Oregon is really close to Portland, Oregon,

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Speaker 4: and Portland is the bigger city, so she ended up

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Speaker 4: actually getting an agent in Portland, and that is where

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Speaker 4: she got the acting and modeling bug, so she was

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Speaker 4: working consistently, and so with her parents' permission, she ended

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Speaker 4: up moving to New York to pursue her career. So

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Speaker 4: she landed a small role on one of my favorite

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Speaker 4: soaproppers of all time on ABC one, Life to Live.

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Speaker 4: And she ended up really just more so focusing on

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Speaker 4: her acting rather than her modeling because she was only

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Speaker 4: five seven, So she modeled a little bit in Japan.

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Speaker 4: But then once she you know, came back to the States,

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Speaker 4: she realized that New York probably wasn't the best fit

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Speaker 4: for her, at least for modeling, but for acting is

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Speaker 4: where she knew that was her sweet spot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and she definitely, you know had the drive,

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Speaker 2: you know what, you absolutely have to have in this business.

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Speaker 2: And apparently, you know, everybody said that she was a

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Speaker 2: spitfire and you could just look at her and tell that,

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Speaker 2: you know, she just you know, when they say that,

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Speaker 2: you you have it. Like she definitely had it. And

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Speaker 2: she was really, you know, serious about her work. So

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Speaker 2: like you said, she wasn't modeling, you know, or doing

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Speaker 2: as much modeling as she would like to do because

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Speaker 2: of her height. So she was off, you know, to

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Speaker 2: LA to get serious and become a serious actress.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm not sure if she was in LA

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Speaker 4: or New York when she was cast in the Woody

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Speaker 4: Allen film, but she was cast in a small role

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Speaker 4: in the Woody Allen movie Rado Days, but sadly, her

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Speaker 4: part was mostly left on the cutting room floor. So

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Speaker 4: she kind of thought that was going to be her

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Speaker 4: big break, but it wasn't. But interestingly enough, her big

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Speaker 4: break came from being on the cover of seventeen magazine.

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Speaker 4: And I had this magazine. I looked at it. I

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Speaker 4: remember seeing her bright, shining smile and her curls and

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Speaker 4: her dimples. And TV producers saw her on that cover

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Speaker 4: and they ended up you know, going through a whole

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Speaker 4: casting and auditioning process. But that is how Rebecca Schaeffer

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Speaker 4: was cast on the show. We keep talking about my

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Speaker 4: sister Sam, and Pam Dabber played her sister, and you

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Speaker 4: might remember Pam from.

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Speaker 2: Work and Mindy as Mindy, And apparently Rebecca and Pam

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Speaker 2: became really close in real life. They were almost like

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Speaker 2: real life sisters, you know, in that chemistry, like you

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Speaker 2: can't make that up.

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Speaker 4: So the show was incredibly successful, you know, we have

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Speaker 4: said so much today. We both Vet and I watched

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Speaker 4: the show, absolutely loved it. But sadly, after two seasons,

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Speaker 4: my sister Sam ended up getting canceled and Rebecca ended

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Speaker 4: up appearing in a few more you know, movies, and

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Speaker 4: I think she did some more TV movies and I

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Speaker 4: think one film, but by this time she had already

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Speaker 4: moved out of Pam's house and into an apartment in

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Speaker 4: the Fairfax neighborhood in LA.

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Speaker 1: And just to back up a little and talk about

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Speaker 1: the stalker in this case, it was while Rebecca was

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Speaker 1: doing My Sister Sam that she started to receive fan

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Speaker 1: letters from a man named John Bardo. And he was

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Speaker 1: a teenager himself, a couple of years younger than she was.

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Speaker 1: He certainly wasn't her only fan, but she responded to him,

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Speaker 1: writing that his letter was quote the most beautiful that

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Speaker 1: she had ever received. And on this letter she drew

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Speaker 1: a peace sign a heart and signed it quote with

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Speaker 1: love from Rebecca. So the day Bardo received this letter,

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Speaker 1: he wrote in his diary, quote, when I think of her,

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Speaker 1: I would like to become famous to impress her end quote.

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Speaker 4: Little did she know she was writing to the person

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Speaker 4: who would one day stock and kill her.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but we need to take a break, so we

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Speaker 1: will talk more about that after we get back.

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Speaker 4: So to catch you up. Rebecca Schaeffer was a teenager

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Speaker 4: at the time while she was co starring in the

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Speaker 4: popular TV show My Sister Sam, and that's when she

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Speaker 4: began receiving fan letters from John Bardow. But who was

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Speaker 4: John Bardow?

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Speaker 1: Well? Bardo was born in nineteen seventy in Edwards, California,

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Speaker 1: and he was the youngest of seven children. He allegedly

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Speaker 1: had a somewhat troubled childhood and he was diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: bipolar disorder at a very young age. He was institutionalized

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Speaker 1: at age fifteen to treat some suppose emotional problems, and

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Speaker 1: he ended up dropping out of high school not long

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Speaker 1: after that point. So he was just a young teenager

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Speaker 1: himself when he began to stalk a different girl named

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Speaker 1: Samantha Smith, who was a well known peace activist. So

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Speaker 1: Bardo went as far as taking a bus to Maine,

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Speaker 1: where Smith lived, and he continued to stalk her until

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Speaker 1: she tragically died in a plane crash in nineteen eighty five. Wow.

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Speaker 1: But the following year, in nineteen eighty six, John Bardo

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Speaker 1: found somebody new he was watching My Sister Sam and

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Speaker 1: quickly developed an obsession with Rebecca on screen. He built

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Speaker 1: a shrine to her in his bedroom, supposedly, and started

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Speaker 1: to obsessively write letters to her. Wow.

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Speaker 2: In June nineteen eighty seven, he attempted to meet Rebecca

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Speaker 2: by showing up at the Warner Brothers studio where My

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Speaker 2: Sister Sam was being filmed, and the studio's chief of

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Speaker 2: security said that that he just thought that this guy

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Speaker 2: was love struck, adding that Bardo had actually called the

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Speaker 2: studio multiple times, and he also said that when he

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Speaker 2: was there, he was terribly like insistent upon being let

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Speaker 2: into the studio and every you know, every other word

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Speaker 2: that he was saying was Rebecca. This Rebecca that, So

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Speaker 2: to me, that is a red flag. If I was

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Speaker 2: the security guard, I'm just saying I would have told

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Speaker 2: her people, right, told her manager, told someone that, you know,

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Speaker 2: this guy is there's something askew here.

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Speaker 4: So I was actually watching an entire documentary on Rebecca

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Speaker 4: and her life in her case, and her manager was

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Speaker 4: with Rebecca on set when John Bardo was at the

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Speaker 4: gate at the Warner Brothers lot, and they did call

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Speaker 4: over to set and talked to the manager, not to Rebecca,

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Speaker 4: and the manager just dismissed it like, oh, not a

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Speaker 4: big deal, like sorry, we don't have time for that

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Speaker 4: fan today, and they didn't even think about it again.

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Speaker 4: So to them, it wasn't a cause for concern. But

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Speaker 4: for me and I think we can all three agree,

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Speaker 4: like these are all major red flags, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would definitely have to agree.

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Speaker 2: You know, they just thought he was just a fan, right,

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Speaker 2: a love struck fan, and ultimately, you know, they deemed

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Speaker 2: him harmless and he was just escorted off of the premises.

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Speaker 1: Right. Well, a few years later, that might have been

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Speaker 1: different if this was happening in a different time period,

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Speaker 1: because in nineteen ninety four, the Violence Against Women Act

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Speaker 1: was passed, and since then, every single state has passed

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Speaker 1: laws making this sort of stalking a crime, but back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, there was no such law in existence.

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Speaker 4: Sadly it is, it is so sad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, after this particular incident, John Barto returns to Tucson,

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Speaker 4: where he lives in Arizona, and once he was there,

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Speaker 4: he kind of got distracted and he ended up fanning

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Speaker 4: out over Debbie Gibson, Tiffany and Madonna. So he was

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Speaker 4: in a pop star phase as opposed to focusing on Rebecca, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was it was a sign of the times.

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Speaker 4: But it was later discovered that Bardo had been carrying

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Speaker 4: a knife in his bag when he was trying to

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Speaker 4: reach Rebecca at the studio back.

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Speaker 2: In LA That's just crazy. But can't you imagine though,

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Speaker 2: if he would have gotten on and he's he's got this, you.

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Speaker 3: Know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And at the time, I don't know if they

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Speaker 4: would have patted him down or even done a metal

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Speaker 4: detector or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, anyway, his new obsessions with you know, the pop

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Speaker 4: stars didn't last very long, and in nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 4: I think this was a really big trigger for him.

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Speaker 4: He watched Rebecca's latest film at the time, and it

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Speaker 4: was a movie called Scenes from a Class Struggle in

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Speaker 4: Beverly Hills, and it's very different from her past work,

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Speaker 4: and it's let's just say, it's truly a film for adults.

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Speaker 4: It's not for a teenage mind. And it's this farcical, dark,

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Speaker 4: upside downstairs comedy about rich people and their staff in

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles hooking up with one another. So Bardo I

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Speaker 4: think he was very triggered, and he hated the fact

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Speaker 4: that there is one scene in particular where Rebecca's character

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Speaker 4: has sex with someone. Okay, so he's held on to

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Speaker 4: this idea that Rebecca is this innocent girl like her

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Speaker 4: character and she's like not having sex, right, and he

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Speaker 4: says that she's now become quote one more of the

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Speaker 4: bitches of Hollywood end quote. He was so upset and

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Speaker 4: so enraged that he even drew a diagram of Rebecca's

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Speaker 4: body and marks spots where he planned to shoot her.

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Speaker 4: And he even asked his older brother to buy him

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Speaker 4: a gun, and his brother helped him buy a gun.

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Speaker 1: So now John Bardo has a weapon and he just

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Speaker 1: needs to locate Rebecca Schaeffer, and so he goes to

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Speaker 1: the links of hiring a private investigator to retrieve her

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Speaker 1: personal address, and he's able to do that pretty easily.

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Speaker 1: He goes to the California Department of Motor Vehicles and

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Speaker 1: at the time, all you had to do was pay

395
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Speaker 1: four dollars for that information and basically anybody could get it.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And so Bardow knows how to do all this, how

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Speaker 1: to hire the investigator and find out where she lives,

399
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Speaker 1: because he's right up on it and apparently it's not

400
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Speaker 1: a huge secret. So back in nineteen eighty two, there

401
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: was actually another actress named Teresa Saldana who had this

402
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: stoker who stabbed her at her apartment. After that man

403
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Speaker 1: acquired her address, pretty much going the same route, right,

404
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: like hiring a private investigator and going through the DMV

405
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Speaker 1: in this whole thing. So there's like a method to

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Speaker 1: doing this, and John Bardow has learned how to do that, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's become a stoker. Well, it's like he knows

408
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Speaker 4: he's a stocker, right, Well, he knows he knows because

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Speaker 4: he's doing exactly what that stalker did to Teresa Saldana,

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Speaker 4: who thankfully survived. She survived, Yeah, and she became an advocate.

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Speaker 4: So John Bardo in his head he's like, wait, that's

412
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Speaker 4: some way that I can get to Rebecca. Like does

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Speaker 4: he not know that he's a psychopath?

414
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Speaker 3: Like yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the crazy thing about this is that same you

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Speaker 2: know investigator, that same PI was.

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Speaker 4: The same guy, right, he used the same PI.

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Speaker 1: His career is helping stalkers kill people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, how can that PI feel good about themselves?

420
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Speaker 4: Like that's just gross. So it is, needless to say,

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Speaker 4: deeply unsettling. So around this time, John Bardo apparently writes

422
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 4: in a letter to his older sister which includes the

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Speaker 4: lines quote I have an obsession with the unattainable. I

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Speaker 4: have to eliminate what I cannot attain end quote. So

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Speaker 4: this now us up to the morning of the crime.

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Speaker 4: So that day in July of nineteen eighty nine, Rebecca

427
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Speaker 4: was awaiting the delivery of the script for The Godfather

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Speaker 4: Part three, which she's auditioning for. And this is a

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00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 4: normal thing. Couriers come by, they ring your doorbell, they

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Speaker 4: drop off the script you signed for it. It's like

431
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 4: a total thing in Hollywood. I remember, you Bet used

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Speaker 4: to get these all the time when we lived together

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Speaker 4: in La Yeah. So, but this time, when Rebecca's doorbell rings,

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Speaker 4: like I said, she's expecting it to be the script

435
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 4: being dropped off, but it's not. So Instead standing there

436
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 4: is John Bardo, so ABC News reported.

437
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: Quote.

438
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 4: When she opened the door, he showed her the card

439
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 4: that she had sent him in response to one of

440
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 4: his many fan letters, as well as an autographed photo

441
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: of her, and told her he was her biggest fan.

442
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 4: According to police, she politely excused herself, telling him she

443
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 4: had to get ready for an interview. End quote. So

444
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: she is kind to him. She didn't say hey, get

445
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 4: the f out. She was nice. But this apparently pissed

446
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 4: him off because I felt maybe he felt like he

447
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 4: wasn't special. But anyway, he ends up leaving and he

448
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 4: goes to a diner where he stews over this entire interaction.

449
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: Right, and just a quick sidebar. An interesting detail is

450
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: that John Bardo has in his bag at the moment

451
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: a copy of the book Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger.

452
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: And interesting parallel with that is if that's the same

453
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: book that was in the possession of John Hinckley Junior,

454
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: who shot Ronald Reagan as well as Mark David Chapman,

455
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: who we all know shot and killed John Lennon. So

456
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: John Bardo is carrying this book around as a sort

457
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: of copy characters. You know you were asking about earlier,

458
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: like does he know he's like a stalker slash killer

459
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: And it's like very clear, like who he looks.

460
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: Up to and who who idols are.

461
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: I think he's like very actively putting himself in the

462
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: shoes of those people, you know, in his stated goal,

463
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, going back from the earliest time he was

464
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: exchanging letters with Rebecca Schaeffer, was to be famous like

465
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: she is. And that's what a lot of stokers say, right,

466
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: a lot of stocker killers. So it seems like he

467
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: thought this was his path to stardom, right, this, this

468
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: would make him famous by killing a star, a celebrity.

469
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,479
Speaker 4: And so that's exactly what John Bardo is on his

470
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 4: way to do. So he returns to Rebecca's apartment shortly after,

471
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 4: and he rang her doorbell again, and this time when

472
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 4: she answers, she's annoyed, right and tells him he's wasting

473
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: her time, and he then responds by withdrawing the gun

474
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 4: that was in his waistband, and he shoots her point

475
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 4: blank in the chest. She dies before she even reaches

476
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 4: the hospital.

477
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: Right Bardo then flees from Los Angeles, but he has

478
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: found the next day stumbling through highway traffic in Tucson.

479
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: Police apprehend him, and he almost immediately incriminates himself in

480
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 1: the crime. He also claimed he was quote stunned and

481
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: saddened to see on television that Shaeffer had died, which

482
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: is an interesting thing to say. You know, it obviously

483
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,239
Speaker 1: implies that maybe he didn't intend to kill her, but

484
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, wanted to harm her or just be known

485
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: for having tried maybe, you know. Yeah, but you know,

486
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: we may never know.

487
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that is the case.

488
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: You know, we may never know getting into the head

489
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: of someone like that, you just you don't you have

490
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 2: no clue of what they're thinking.

491
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 3: But we do know that.

492
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 2: It takes two years for the trial to get underway,

493
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: and it's a very dramatic trial.

494
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: Yes, and we will talk about that trial after we

495
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: take another quick break.

496
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 4: So in the fall of nineteen ninety one, two years

497
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: after he's admitted to knocking on her door and shooting

498
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 4: her at point blank range, John Bardow's trial for the

499
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 4: murder of Rebecca Schaeffer begins.

500
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: The prosecuting attorney is Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney Marcia Clark.

501
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: And yes, that is the Marsha Clark that we all

502
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 2: know who would later go on to be the lead

503
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: prosecutor in the very famous OJ Simpson murder trial.

504
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that OJ trial was also covered by a journalist,

505
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: Dominic Dunn, who is the father of Dominique Dunn, who

506
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: we talked about in a few episodes ago. So interesting

507
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: connection there.

508
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. So Bardo by this time has confessed to

509
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: this crime, but he's pleaded not guilty to first degree murder,

510
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: which would classify the killing as premeditated. And this leaves

511
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 4: the prosecution with two big challenges. So first, Marcia Clark

512
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 4: needed to prove that John Bartow acted intentionally, so that

513
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 4: would mean at least twenty five years to life in prison,

514
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 4: but even with this there would be the possibility of parole.

515
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: So she also needed to prove that there's been a quote,

516
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 4: special circumstance, and Marcia Clark said that in this case,

517
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: that special circumstance was the fact that Barto was basically

518
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: lying in wait.

519
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: Right.

520
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: So to prove this, she goes to a videotape jailhouse

521
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: interview with Bardo, and in this video he describes the

522
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: killing in detail, showing how he hid the gun when

523
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: he knocked on the door, and in that tape he

524
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: also acted out the sounds of the gun shut and

525
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: Rebecca like dying and screaming.

526
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: And as if that weren't enough to show that he

527
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: had arrived at her apartment that day with an intent

528
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: and a plan to kill her. He also revealed that

529
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 4: the song Exit by YouTube inspired him to murder Rebecca.

530
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: When the song was played in the courtroom, he actually

531
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 4: sat there drumming along, smiling and lip syncing the lyrics.

532
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: A psychiatrist who examined Bardo after his arrest did testify

533
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 4: that Barto interpreted parts of the lyrics as literal references

534
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 4: to himself and Rebecca Schaeffer.

535
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. That's a thing a lot of murderers do,

536
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: is they imprint on musicians and songs, you know, like

537
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: they see music as being about something more personal to

538
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: them than it ever actually could be. You know, I

539
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: think back to Charles Manson and his obsession with things

540
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: like Helter Skelter, right where he was entirely misinterpreting it

541
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: to be about some personal image he had in his

542
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: own head that was very narcissistic in nature, but had

543
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: no basis in reality. Anyways, on October thirtieth of nineteen

544
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: ninety one, John Bardo is indeed found guilty of first

545
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: degree murder. He's also found guilty of the special circumstance

546
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned Russia of the lying in wait to kill

547
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: Rebecca Schaeffer. So basically what this means is that he

548
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: now gets a life sentence without the possibility of parole,

549
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: and in fact he's still serving his life sentence today.

550
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: There was actually an attempt on his life in two

551
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: thousand and seven when he was stabbed repeatedly with a

552
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: shive by another inmate, but he survived this and is

553
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: alive today.

554
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 5: Wow.

555
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 4: I don't ever want anyone to die, of course, but

556
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: you know, I'm happy that he does not have the

557
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: option of being prolled. But I will say, like I

558
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: said at the very top of the episode, I remember

559
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 4: being so inspired by Rebecca's case because I do know

560
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: that laws were changed because of the Teresa Saldama's and

561
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: the Rebecca Schaefers, and one of those laws that was

562
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: passed was in nineteen ninety four, the Driver's Privacy Protection

563
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 4: Act was passed. So this is a federal law that

564
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: limits the disclosure of personal information like where someone lives

565
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: that you can get from state DMVs, So no one

566
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 4: can obtain someone's home address from DMV reports the way

567
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 4: that that private investigator that John Bardo hired did. And

568
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: this law was spurred to try to ensure the safety

569
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: of people like Rebecca Schaeffer who are being stocked or battered,

570
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 4: as well as instances of anti abortion activists targeting abortion

571
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 4: providers and patients, you know, I mean, it protects so many, yeah,

572
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 4: and so in that way, I truly believe that there

573
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: is a little bit of light in this darkness of

574
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 4: this story. Right, things are a little bit better for

575
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: those of us or those of you who experience the

576
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 4: terror of stalking, you know, But of course the problem

577
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: is sadly far from over, but it's getting better.

578
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: And that brings us to our EMUA. Today's message of

579
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: hope and healing goes out to all of those like

580
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: Rebecca Schaeffer who have faced fear and intimidation at the

581
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: hands of a stalker.

582
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 4: Being stocked can be a very scary experience. We have

583
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: to remember that stalking victims suffer much higher rates of depression, anxiety,

584
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: and insomnia than others, and the advancement of technology has

585
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 4: made the problem more acute in many ways. More than

586
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 4: twice as many victims are stocked with technology than without.

587
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: Cyber stalking and cyberbullying are sadly on the rise.

588
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: And what we do know is stocking behavior is still

589
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: too often portrayed as just harmless or even romantic.

590
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: But it isn't.

591
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: It's incredibly dangerous and it should never be considered acceptable.

592
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: End of story.

593
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 4: If you're among the estimated thirteen point five million people

594
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 4: who are stocked in a given year, we see you,

595
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: and we will continue to speak out on your behalf.

596
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 4: When enough of us do this, it can really make

597
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 4: a difference. We all need to use our voices for good.

598
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 4: Onward and upward, Emua, Emua. If you or someone you

599
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: know is experiencing stalking behavior, you can find tools and

600
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 4: resources to help at www dot stokingawareness dot org. That's

601
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 4: www dot stokingawareness dot org.

602
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 3: Well, that is our show for today.

603
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 2: As always, we'd love to hear what you thought about

604
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: today's discussion and if there is a case that you

605
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: would like us to cover, find us on social media

606
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: or email us at Facingeable Pod at tenderfoot dot tv

607
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: and one request. If you haven't already, please find us

608
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: on iTunes and.

609
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: Give us a review and a good rating. If you

610
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 4: like what we do, your support is always cherished until

611
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 4: next time. Aloha.

612
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and tenderfoot TV.

613
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Pequerrero in a Vetchintila,

614
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf

615
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald

616
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of

617
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico.

618
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on

619
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: social media or email us at Facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.

620
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the

621
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

622
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Speaker 1: favorite shows