WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: Can you Treat Mental Illness with Psychedelics? 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.200 Hey there everyone, it's me Josh and for this week's 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.480 s Y s K Selects, I've chosen can we treat 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.080 mental illness with psychedelics? Spoiler alert The answer is a big, 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.159 big yes. This is one of those neat pieces of 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.560 history where things just kind of fell out of place 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.360 for something important, and we also have the rare luxury 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.440 of seeing where it went wrong and exactly who was responsible. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.400 So enjoy this really interesting episode of Stuff you Should Know. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.199 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:43.680 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. WHOA and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:49.800 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Cheek, Bryant Cheech. Yeah, man, yeah, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:51.760 I wanted to start this one out like a twelve 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.600 year old, so that's when I'm going with a twelve 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.400 year old on acid maybe maybe, which has happened before 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.040 in France. Actually really thanks to our old friends the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.240 c I A. Oh, they dosed kids. They just a 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.039 whole town wow to see what would happen. And one 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.760 kid came at his grandmother and tried to strangle her. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.839 Really yeah, I can't remember the name of the town. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.759 I can see you would find that funny, but well, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.640 no people were like showing up at the hospital. There 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.120 a lot of it was funny and that like, you know, 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:26.920 all these nineteen fifties frenchees are losing their stuff for 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.280 no apparent reason, right, right, but you know the suicides 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.000 that resulted from that not very funny. Before we get started, 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.560 I think we should do like an official c o 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:39.759 A for this one. I think that is a very 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.959 good idea because what Josh and I are about to 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.480 talk about are illegal drugs. But we just find it 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.480 fascinating that they used to be used for certain things 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.040 and they're starting to be used again in certain scientific 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.800 research labs for these things. It is extremely fascinating, which 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.080 is what we're talking about, right exactly. I guess this 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.640 could be a follow up to our our mk Ultra cast. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.560 It's a follow up and uh it's an epilogue and 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:07.040 a prologue. Yes, yeah, very nice because we kind of 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.880 came into the the c I A L. S D 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.360 MK Ultra podcast like right in the middle of the 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.240 history of LSD pretty much well towards the beginning, but 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:24.040 um one of the things after when Albert Hoffman, right, 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:30.040 the chemist who created LSD L tried it. Yeah, it 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.400 was attempt uh, and tried it on himself intravenously. As 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.520 I understand it, he injected it. We always says, first 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.639 he took it by mistake, yeah, because it was a 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.160 blood thinner. And then he took it for real. Yeah. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.960 After that first bike ride home he was like, I 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.440 gotta do some more. And then I read his quote, please, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.760 I became aware of the wonder of creation, the magnificence 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.280 of nature. Yes, to create Dr Hoffman. Yeah, and he 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.880 was just some Swiss guy, Sam chemist. Um. He was 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.720 at the first person to come up with a synthetic 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:06.240 hallucin Jim back in nineteen fourteen, a German chemist who 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.480 worked for Merk the pharmaceutical company, came up with M 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.280 d M A better known as ecstasy that far back. Uh. Yeah, 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.520 And here's a tip for you, chuckers Um. Anytime, according 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.280 to the Associated Press, you write about a designer drug 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.200 and use it by its designer name, capitalize it. So 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.359 ecstasy is always capitalized the word ecstasy when you're talking 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.200 about the drug, Yes, and not just the euphoric feeling 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.360 you get from life. That's different. That's a lower case okay, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.200 but it should be all caps. Yeah. Sure, so it 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.160 was nineteen that m d M A was created. Yeah, 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.640 and it was. Um, I guess it served as a 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:50.760 it's not a catalyst, because I think it's changed, but 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.080 it was to be used in the synthesis of other chemicals. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.520 And it kind of sat on the shelves for a 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.040 little while until somebody along the way and then I 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:04.680 wonder what happens if I take this stuff? And they did, 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.480 and the CIA again looked at it. I wanted to 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.160 see what it could do, passed it up. Um, and 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.880 a guy by the name of Alexander Shulgin right, Yes, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.680 he's a dow chemist. And in eight at the age 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.080 of seventy four, he published a study on the uthork 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:26.680 effects of m d m A. It was the first 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:30.560 time anyone had ever published a study here. But he 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.640 was seventy four and he first noticed the uthork effects 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.760 because he liked to take it and go to cocktail parties. Yeah. Um, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.080 so he's like, hey, man, this stuff is the bomb, 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.280 and here's my study on it. Here that my findings, 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.119 and let's everybody start taking this. So he starts giving 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.320 it to his friends, Um, including some psychiatrists. Did he 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.160 give out passifiers? Not yet, that's coming though. That's very 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:04.679 very close past fires came about UM. So Shilgin gives 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.680 them to a friend who's a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist some of 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.599 the more avant garde psychiatrists UM start giving it to 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.600 their patients, and then it gets called ADAM. For a 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.440 little while while this is going on, it is being 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:23.919 used by established psychiatrist. A mysterious financier in Dallas, Texas 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.920 finds out about this stuff and starts taking it, hires 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:31.320 an underground chemist and has it made himself, and then 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.680 start selling it at clubs all over Dallas. And so this, 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:42.039 this illicit use of this substance, simultaneous to its emergence 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.719 on the club scene and about the mid eighties led 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.680 to the outlaw of M D M A. We'll get 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.960 into it more, but the point is to this very 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:57.839 long and rambling intro, both of these drugs and others 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.599 were legal at one time, were put to good use, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:08.760 beneficial use, and then outlawed, possibly unfairly, and then now 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.320 we're starting to see them come back into use, hallucinogens 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.200 being used to treat mental illness and mental harm in 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:21.440 legitimate circles, very legitimate. Quick question was that Dallas person 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.000 was at Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. I don't know. I 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.520 don't think anybody knows who it is. Still gotta start 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:32.960 maybe probably, I think to begin with So, Josh, you 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.520 mentioned the c I A. I do want to point 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.799 out it wasn't just the Americans, Uh, the Canadian government 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:45.159 and British's British's It Works. Britain's m I six also 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.719 experimented with LSD and between ninety and sixty five, forty 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.359 people all over the world had been treated with LSD 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.080 in treatments. Yeah, um, Carrie Grant, Yeah, can we go 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:06.920 back to Hollywood In the nineteen yoursis so, a couple 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.680 of guys set up shop. Arthur Chandler. What was the 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.880 other guy's name, Oh, Hartman Hartman, Mortimer Hartman, who was 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.360 a radiologist, took acid and said, you know, I'm gonna 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.440 get into psychiatry. These guys set up a shop called 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.480 the Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills right in the middle 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.800 of Beverly Hills. And this is back in the day 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.120 when things were it was clean living going on, aside 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:38.080 from the rampant alcoholism and cigarettes being smoked, adultery. Probably 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.040 some marijuana use going on here there, but that was 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.880 among the hopheads, Yeah, exactly. So he sets up a 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.680 couple of rooms with a couch and uh starts booking 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:53.080 patients at a rate of like six or eight hours 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.679 of session, depending on what was going on with the person, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.920 and five days a week. There were books solid hundred 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.160 bucks of pop Hunter, which is a lot of any 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.080 back then. And I guess that included the drugs. The 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.160 drugs and the time that you were there. So they 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:07.920 would sit with you, they would give you some blinders 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.640 to block out distractions, and then you would go into 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.440 sort of like the more meditative sort of acid trip. 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:20.480 Essentially you were tripping hard would because you were on 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:25.320 pharmaceutical grade LSD produced by the Sandoz company. We're talking 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:31.000 about Alice Huxley, novelist, and actually he died tripping. Did 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.480 you know that? Really? Yeah, he was. He had um 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.600 throat cancer, I think, and uh, the last thing he 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.239 ever wrote was a note to his wife requesting um 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.200 such and such milligrams of LSD or micrograms of LSD 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:50.280 injected intramuscular intramuscularly really, and that was about six hours 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.400 before he died. So he died tripping and a grateful 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.360 Dead record. That was his last request before the Grateful 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:05.320 der Uh. Screen screenwriter Charles Brackett took it. Director Sidney 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.920 Lament as it lay or Lament I think okay. I 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.000 always said may, but I think I'm wrong. He took 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.240 it a few times, went through sessions, called it wonderful. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.560 He re experienced his own birth, which apparently a few 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.600 people did. I've never heard of that. I haven't either. 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.720 And um Claire Booth Loose was a playwright married to 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.360 Time magazine publisher Henry Loose. She was also an ambassador 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.480 and possibly an agent um for the US government, and 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.160 they both took acid so much that Henry Loose and 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.880 Time Magazine said we need to write about this. This 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.000 is awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of good press that 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.679 Time Magazine gave LSD in the fifties, um as a 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:48.480 basically a cure. All Um, and again, Carrie Grant got 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.720 into it big time. Apparently he had like at least 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.360 a hundred trips. I believe. Yeah he was. Yeah, let's 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.280 talk about him for a second, because he was one 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.479 of these guys that carefully constru truct did his persona. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:06.240 He worked very hard apparently he was the The line 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.439 he always gave was a lot of people want to 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.319 be carried grant, and I'm one of them, indicating that 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.320 this suave, Mr cool persona was completely fabricating, created by 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.640 himself so he could get you know, the fame and everything, 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:25.800 but deep down he suffered as a human until he 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.720 started taking acid, right, and then he had um, well, 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.400 he had some pretty interesting revelations, one of which I 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.600 read one of the somebody thought to write down the 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.439 stuff that he Some of the insights he had, um, 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.800 some were kind of deep. Others were like, if I 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.400 have to look at a man, he should be required 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.360 to comb his hair and brush his teeth and wear 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.959 a clean shirt. Yes, it was interesting, so it kind 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.439 of ran the gamut. But yeah, he um he became 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:03.240 a real devotee of l s D. He's yeah, and 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.160 um well she got him into it, right. I think 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.120 who wrote that We're we're part of this. We're basing 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.640 this part on a Vanity Fair article art. Yeah. Um, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.160 it's called the Carrying the Sky with Diamonds. But he 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.400 was a huge advocate for LSD. He wasn't the only one, um, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.319 but he lived to see it outlawed and public sentiment 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:29.800 turn against it, right, just like m D, m a UM, pilocybin, magic, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.280 mushrooms and part of the well really one of the 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:39.800 You could say that Timothy Leary almost single handedly led 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.880 to the tremendous suffering of a lot of people who 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.800 might otherwise have been helped by LSD with his his 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.079 naive bravado of you know, the establishment just needs to 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.320 get over its hang ups and we should all take acid. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.160 Whether or not you agree that that's a good idea, 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.319 it's a stupid thing to say. Leary was originally a 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.360 Harvard side chiatrist, right, yes, and he started taking I 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:07.720 think mushrooms and then he eventually started taking LSD and 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.120 was fired from Harvard because he turned into a hippie. Yeah, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.960 and um, that was pretty much the beginning of the 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.719 end of LSD. Yeah, they may have continued to use 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:24.400 LSD as treatment for mental patients, mental illness and depression 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.240 if not for Timothy Leary, who was trying to spread 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.280 the word about acid. That's right. Uh, back to carry 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.120 Grant real quick. He was so into it, Josh. He 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.200 had a couple of stories written about him in nineteen 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.800 fifty nine and Look magazine, the Curious Story behind the 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.560 New Carry. Grant gave a glowing account of LSD and 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.160 then this is the best the following year the Good 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.480 Housekeeping magazine. It got the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:52.960 in the nineteen sixty issue and they called it the 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.760 Secret of Grant's Second youth. I want to get a 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.720 copy of that magazine. How awesome would that be? Yeah? 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.359 And that's kind of like the theme of this podcast 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:06.359 is so weird that these things were considered incredibly wonderful 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.800 and benign um and now they're they're just viewed as 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.600 just so they're evil and their outlaws simply because they 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:21.000 were made illegal right prohibited um. And again there's kind 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.559 of a movement toward saying, hey, you know, maybe Timothy 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.000 Leary did give this a bad name. Maybe that that 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.720 um underground chemist in Dallas, uh really kind of put 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.840 a terrible spread on this, and we should look at 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.400 these again, right, she cannot tell one more story? Yes? 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.240 From Hollywood of the nineteen sixties. Yes, Esther Williams, famous 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.760 UH diva actress from the n g M studio friend 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.000 of Carrie Grants, called Carrie Grant up after these articles 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.120 and said, Hey, can you introduce me to your doctor, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.120 Dr Hartman? He did so. At the time, she was aging, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.480 just had gone through a divorce, Her husband left her 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.440 with huge debt with the I R S. And she 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.439 was still struggling with the death of her sixteen year 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.400 old brother. She goes in the office, she takes acid, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.040 does her session, goes home to her parents, still on acid, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:18.120 has dinner with them, and then goes into the bathroom mirror, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.840 says good night to her parents, looks in the mirror, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.200 and I'm gonna read this quote. I was startled by 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.640 a split image one half of my face, the right 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.320 half was me, the other half was the face of 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.880 a sixteen year old boy. The left side of my 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.560 upper body was flat and muscular. I reached up with 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:38.160 my boys hand to touch my right breast and felt 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.520 my penis stirring. It was a hermaphroditic phantasm. And I 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.040 understood perfectly in that moment. When my brother died, I 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.760 took him into my life so completely he became part 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.240 of me. Yeah, that's a pretty huge thing to understand 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.240 and pretty jarring way to come to terms with that, right. Yeah, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.840 but that's what they're finding out now though, is that 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.080 these people are having these breakthroughs in the throes of 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.360 their final days of let's say cancer, and they have 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:29.440 these epiphanies. So LSD is outlawed. We're following a timeline here. Yes, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.440 LSD is outlawed in I think sixty five something like that. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.680 UM at the very at the latest nineteen seventy they 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.040 shut down the shop in Beverly Hills. Yeah, and Sandos 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.120 stopped making it and it got it was outlawed and 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.400 pushed underground. M D m A made it until and 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.960 M D m A story is linked very closely to 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:55.720 a guy named Dr George Quarte, who is JOHNS. Hopkins researcher. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:00.320 This floored me so in about the time the UM 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.920 D e A is reeling from being caught totally unaware 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:09.080 by the crack epidemic. Uh and basically a lot of 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:15.920 people think looking for a whipping post um they they 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.560 start considering outlawing M D m A. At that moment, 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.440 this guy, Dr George roccarde Um publishes a study that 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:30.000 he says, this drug deplete your serotonin levels permanently, causing 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.440 brain damage. Right, it can kill you. Yeah, Well that 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.360 that didn't that came. So this guy, who is unknown 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.920 at the time, publishes the study, starts to get UM 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.400 National Institute of Drug Abuse funding. So basically this is 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:51.200 his job. He starts a career UM creating scientific evidence 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.920 in favor of banning drugs leads to the outlaw of 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.720 m d M. A right. That wasn't quite enough. They 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.040 scheduled it. Uh. The FEDS went after m d M 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.880 A even harder, and in two thousand two they came 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.080 up with this thing called the Rave Act. It's um, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:15.200 what does rave stand for? Reducing Americans vulnerability to ecstasy? 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.960 I wonder how long they sat around looking at the 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.680 word rave, saying we've gotta make it fit, Yeah, to 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.320 make it fit Yeah. So um, the the Rave Act 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:29.160 basically said, if you are a club owner and somebody 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.760 gets caught taking ecstasy or has ecstasy at your club, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.320 we're going to shut down your club. It was a huge, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.719 huge law, and it was bolstered by another UM another 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.399 study by Dr George rocquarde Um that found that he 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.919 tested on ten monkeys one he injected them with m 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.119 d M a UM, A bunch of them went psychotic. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.679 Some of them UM showed early signs of Parkinson's all 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.160 of a sudden, and two of them died almost immediately 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.639 after being injected. So people started asking questions about this, like, 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.919 what what are you talking about? People have been taking 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.719 this drug forever and this has never happened. So they 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.040 started kind of going after recording and UM, they found 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:18.240 out that he had actually injected him with methamphetamine. The 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.159 first thing that tipped them off as he injected him, 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.639 because people were like, well, you don't inject ecstasy, so 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.800 that's kind of a weird way to do it. And 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.159 then they found out it was methamphetamines, which he blamed 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.679 on a mislabeling of a drug shipment which they traced 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.320 back and they went the label right here. Yeah, the 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.960 drug providers like, don't blame must, it's pretty clear. So 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.440 this is by this time, the Rave Act has already 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.199 passed her and the Rave Act didn't get past but 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.879 something that included that UM was passed by that time. 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.800 The study that recorded a produced was pretty was published 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.960 in Science, the journal Science. Like that's as hyebrow as 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.680 you get as far as scientific journals. Um, And finally 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.760 he gets beaten up and up that he he prints 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.160 a full retraction came clean. The Science runs this retraction 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:10.320 saying the whole, the whole study that I produced just 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.720 forget it ever existed. But that doesn't happen much, No, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.640 it doesn't. That's very unusual. So record A I get 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.960 the impression is kind of this. Um, well, it just 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.359 kind of seems like the scientific community views him largely 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.520 as a shill to the government. Yeah. Um. There's a 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.200 couple of articles that he shows up in on a 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.520 Reason and Reason magazines were checking out. Yeah. And you know, 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.560 the other interesting thing about that whole story about the 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.560 big fake study he did with meth amphetamines as ecstasy 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:44.320 is that the Parkinson's Foundation, the people Parkinson's researchers, said, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.200 I don't think that that's true. That doesn't make much 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.119 sense to us either, that they would show signs of 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.760 Parkinson's right, so they looked into it. People went about 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.360 reproducing his study. Yeah. Um, and the people who run 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:02.320 the Parkinson's Foundation actually issued a statement saying ecstasy does 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:05.679 not do this, So they basically came out in favor 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.600 of ecstasy. It's kind of neat to watch from the 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.880 outside because there's this guy who's again kind of viewed 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.639 as a shill for the government who's beating up on 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.400 this drug that a lot of people who are also 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:24.600 in the scientific community feel is being unfairly outlawed, and 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.360 so there's kind of beating up on him in retaliation. 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.719 It's kind of neat to see eggheads beat up on 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.840 one another, NERD fights and the n I d A. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:34.359 It went so far that the n I d A 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.160 just kind of quietly pulled their fact sheet on ecstasy 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:38.880 and I was like, Um, let's just take this down 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.800 off the website. After the retraction, we'll rewrite it. I'm 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.399 sure it's back up now as something else. Yeah, but 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.840 it doesn't include immediate death and Parkinson's disease. I would 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.240 imagine that's right. So Timothy Larry dies, he gets shot 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.400 into space, he's out of the picture entirely. Everybody gets 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:02.160 sick of hippies generally. Yeah, Um, George Record is basically 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.520 the guy who's single handedly getting ecstasy outlawed. His work 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.720 comes into great, great question, and people start going back 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:12.760 and looking at M D m A again, and they 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.320 start looking at LSD again, and that's where we find 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.159 ourselves right now. Slowly but surely, people are starting to 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.479 run studies on whether or not you can use these 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.520 hallucinogens to treat mental illness. And the results are pretty 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.359 astounding actually, and you know where they're leading the charge 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:35.480 in Switzerland, in Los Angeles all these years later, same place, Yes, 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.920 hippie freaks. Yeah, so yeah, Josh, they are I think 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:46.360 in Switzerland. Uh, in Solo then Switzerland. They have been 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.920 experimenting with lsd um psilocybin, which you might know his 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.000 magic mushrooms. Yes, ketamine you might know, a special k. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.840 That kind of surprised me that that was in there. Yeah, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.560 I hadn't heard much about that one either. And getting 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.080 these uh, these studies published in Nature Reviews, Neuroscience, and 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:10.440 other you know, leading industry peer reviewed publications. Yeah, it's 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.840 not all under the table back room experiments. Oh no, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:18.560 these are very heavily um overseen. You have to be 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.320 a very legitimate researcher to get government approval. They're not 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.760 funded though still there's they say they're still having a 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.359 hard time with funding, and they're just they're sort of 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.119 looking to get some restrictions loosen. They're not saying make 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.760 all this stuff legal, right, They're not battling a legalization 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.680 on the legalization front at all. But what they're one 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.639 of the reason why so many people are kind of 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:43.760 starting to put their reputations on the line. Um, it's 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:48.680 because the results that they're seeing. So we have antidepressants, right, UM, 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.680 they take weeks to kick in, they have all sorts 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.000 of side effects. And what they're what we're seeing in 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.800 these studies now, are that the the things like ketamine, 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.000 uh m d m A, LSD are having like a 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:05.480 huge impact right out of the gate. There's one study, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.080 um that came out in July, I believe, UM, and 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.160 it found it was a study of twelve people who 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:16.440 were diagnosed with PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah, that's 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.800 one of the big ones. Yeah, that's huge that they're 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.960 looking at. UM. That's where you well, it's what we 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.160 used to call shell shock. You go through traumatic experience 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.879 and you relive it over and over again. UM, and 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:33.040 it's it's debilitating. Um. They found that of the twelve 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.640 people in the study, ten of them, after going through 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.919 the study, UM, after taking M D m A no 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.240 longer met the criteria to be diagnosed with PTSD afterwards. 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.440 Ten of the twelve. Yeah, and for my understanding, and 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.800 most of these studies is it's not like you have 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.680 to stay on ecstasy your whole life, Like a lot 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.679 of people have these epiphanies and they quit taking it 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.080 and they have changed their outlook and that right, Yeah, 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.840 that's the impression I'm getting to. Um, Ketamine's good for 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:04.520 depression in the same way. Um, just a very tiny 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.520 dose I can get you over severe clinical depression. Or 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.920 that's the results, the early results, we should say, yeah, 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:17.800 um and everything from quitting smoking two suicidal thought, Yeah, 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:22.359 cluster headaches Harvard studying. Those are migraines for men, right, 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.760 what they called my migraines. I think I know they're 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:29.399 so debilitating that you consider suicide or you know not 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.680 everyone does obviously, but it's just this awful, awful pain. 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:34.080 You can't leave your house, you get to sit in 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.640 a dark room, and so it's helping there. And um, 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.280 what I thought was interesting Johns Hopkins, you might have 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:44.840 heard of them, a little reputable institutions required is from 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:48.760 was it they did an experiment where they gave psilocybin 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.760 too emotionally stable individuals like this wasn't even people that 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:56.320 were mentally ill, people that had never taken hallucinogens before, 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.000