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Speaker 1: Hey there everyone, it's me Josh and for this week's

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Speaker 1: s Y s K Selects, I've chosen can we treat

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Speaker 1: mental illness with psychedelics? Spoiler alert The answer is a big,

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Speaker 1: big yes. This is one of those neat pieces of

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Speaker 1: history where things just kind of fell out of place

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Speaker 1: for something important, and we also have the rare luxury

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Speaker 1: of seeing where it went wrong and exactly who was responsible.

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Speaker 1: So enjoy this really interesting episode of Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. WHOA and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Cheek, Bryant Cheech. Yeah, man, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to start this one out like a twelve

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Speaker 1: year old, so that's when I'm going with a twelve

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Speaker 1: year old on acid maybe maybe, which has happened before

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Speaker 1: in France. Actually really thanks to our old friends the

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Speaker 1: c I A. Oh, they dosed kids. They just a

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Speaker 1: whole town wow to see what would happen. And one

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Speaker 1: kid came at his grandmother and tried to strangle her.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, I can't remember the name of the town.

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Speaker 1: I can see you would find that funny, but well,

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Speaker 1: no people were like showing up at the hospital. There

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Speaker 1: a lot of it was funny and that like, you know,

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Speaker 1: all these nineteen fifties frenchees are losing their stuff for

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Speaker 1: no apparent reason, right, right, but you know the suicides

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Speaker 1: that resulted from that not very funny. Before we get started,

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Speaker 1: I think we should do like an official c o

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Speaker 1: A for this one. I think that is a very

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Speaker 1: good idea because what Josh and I are about to

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Speaker 1: talk about are illegal drugs. But we just find it

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Speaker 1: fascinating that they used to be used for certain things

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Speaker 1: and they're starting to be used again in certain scientific

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Speaker 1: research labs for these things. It is extremely fascinating, which

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Speaker 1: is what we're talking about, right exactly. I guess this

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Speaker 1: could be a follow up to our our mk Ultra cast.

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Speaker 1: It's a follow up and uh it's an epilogue and

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Speaker 1: a prologue. Yes, yeah, very nice because we kind of

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Speaker 1: came into the the c I A L. S D

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Speaker 1: MK Ultra podcast like right in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: history of LSD pretty much well towards the beginning, but

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Speaker 1: um one of the things after when Albert Hoffman, right,

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Speaker 1: the chemist who created LSD L tried it. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was attempt uh, and tried it on himself intravenously. As

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Speaker 1: I understand it, he injected it. We always says, first

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Speaker 1: he took it by mistake, yeah, because it was a

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Speaker 1: blood thinner. And then he took it for real. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: After that first bike ride home he was like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta do some more. And then I read his quote, please,

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Speaker 1: I became aware of the wonder of creation, the magnificence

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Speaker 1: of nature. Yes, to create Dr Hoffman. Yeah, and he

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Speaker 1: was just some Swiss guy, Sam chemist. Um. He was

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Speaker 1: at the first person to come up with a synthetic

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Speaker 1: hallucin Jim back in nineteen fourteen, a German chemist who

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Speaker 1: worked for Merk the pharmaceutical company, came up with M

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Speaker 1: d M A better known as ecstasy that far back. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And here's a tip for you, chuckers Um. Anytime, according

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Speaker 1: to the Associated Press, you write about a designer drug

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Speaker 1: and use it by its designer name, capitalize it. So

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Speaker 1: ecstasy is always capitalized the word ecstasy when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the drug, Yes, and not just the euphoric feeling

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Speaker 1: you get from life. That's different. That's a lower case okay,

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Speaker 1: but it should be all caps. Yeah. Sure, so it

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Speaker 1: was nineteen that m d M A was created. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was. Um, I guess it served as a

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Speaker 1: it's not a catalyst, because I think it's changed, but

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Speaker 1: it was to be used in the synthesis of other chemicals.

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Speaker 1: And it kind of sat on the shelves for a

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Speaker 1: little while until somebody along the way and then I

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Speaker 1: wonder what happens if I take this stuff? And they did,

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Speaker 1: and the CIA again looked at it. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: see what it could do, passed it up. Um, and

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Speaker 1: a guy by the name of Alexander Shulgin right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's a dow chemist. And in eight at the age

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Speaker 1: of seventy four, he published a study on the uthork

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Speaker 1: effects of m d m A. It was the first

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Speaker 1: time anyone had ever published a study here. But he

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Speaker 1: was seventy four and he first noticed the uthork effects

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Speaker 1: because he liked to take it and go to cocktail parties. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: so he's like, hey, man, this stuff is the bomb,

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Speaker 1: and here's my study on it. Here that my findings,

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Speaker 1: and let's everybody start taking this. So he starts giving

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Speaker 1: it to his friends, Um, including some psychiatrists. Did he

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Speaker 1: give out passifiers? Not yet, that's coming though. That's very

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Speaker 1: very close past fires came about UM. So Shilgin gives

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Speaker 1: them to a friend who's a psychiatrist. Psychiatrist some of

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Speaker 1: the more avant garde psychiatrists UM start giving it to

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Speaker 1: their patients, and then it gets called ADAM. For a

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Speaker 1: little while while this is going on, it is being

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Speaker 1: used by established psychiatrist. A mysterious financier in Dallas, Texas

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Speaker 1: finds out about this stuff and starts taking it, hires

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Speaker 1: an underground chemist and has it made himself, and then

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Speaker 1: start selling it at clubs all over Dallas. And so this,

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Speaker 1: this illicit use of this substance, simultaneous to its emergence

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Speaker 1: on the club scene and about the mid eighties led

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Speaker 1: to the outlaw of M D M A. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into it more, but the point is to this very

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Speaker 1: long and rambling intro, both of these drugs and others

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Speaker 1: were legal at one time, were put to good use,

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Speaker 1: beneficial use, and then outlawed, possibly unfairly, and then now

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Speaker 1: we're starting to see them come back into use, hallucinogens

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Speaker 1: being used to treat mental illness and mental harm in

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Speaker 1: legitimate circles, very legitimate. Quick question was that Dallas person

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Speaker 1: was at Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't think anybody knows who it is. Still gotta start

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Speaker 1: maybe probably, I think to begin with So, Josh, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the c I A. I do want to point

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Speaker 1: out it wasn't just the Americans, Uh, the Canadian government

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Speaker 1: and British's British's It Works. Britain's m I six also

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Speaker 1: experimented with LSD and between ninety and sixty five, forty

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Speaker 1: people all over the world had been treated with LSD

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Speaker 1: in treatments. Yeah, um, Carrie Grant, Yeah, can we go

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Speaker 1: back to Hollywood In the nineteen yoursis so, a couple

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Speaker 1: of guys set up shop. Arthur Chandler. What was the

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Speaker 1: other guy's name, Oh, Hartman Hartman, Mortimer Hartman, who was

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Speaker 1: a radiologist, took acid and said, you know, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get into psychiatry. These guys set up a shop called

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Speaker 1: the Psychiatric Institute of Beverly Hills right in the middle

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Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. And this is back in the day

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Speaker 1: when things were it was clean living going on, aside

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Speaker 1: from the rampant alcoholism and cigarettes being smoked, adultery. Probably

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Speaker 1: some marijuana use going on here there, but that was

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Speaker 1: among the hopheads, Yeah, exactly. So he sets up a

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Speaker 1: couple of rooms with a couch and uh starts booking

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Speaker 1: patients at a rate of like six or eight hours

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Speaker 1: of session, depending on what was going on with the person,

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Speaker 1: and five days a week. There were books solid hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks of pop Hunter, which is a lot of any

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Speaker 1: back then. And I guess that included the drugs. The

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Speaker 1: drugs and the time that you were there. So they

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Speaker 1: would sit with you, they would give you some blinders

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Speaker 1: to block out distractions, and then you would go into

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Speaker 1: sort of like the more meditative sort of acid trip.

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Speaker 1: Essentially you were tripping hard would because you were on

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical grade LSD produced by the Sandoz company. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about Alice Huxley, novelist, and actually he died tripping. Did

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Speaker 1: you know that? Really? Yeah, he was. He had um

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Speaker 1: throat cancer, I think, and uh, the last thing he

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Speaker 1: ever wrote was a note to his wife requesting um

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Speaker 1: such and such milligrams of LSD or micrograms of LSD

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Speaker 1: injected intramuscular intramuscularly really, and that was about six hours

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Speaker 1: before he died. So he died tripping and a grateful

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Speaker 1: Dead record. That was his last request before the Grateful

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Speaker 1: der Uh. Screen screenwriter Charles Brackett took it. Director Sidney

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Speaker 1: Lament as it lay or Lament I think okay. I

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Speaker 1: always said may, but I think I'm wrong. He took

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Speaker 1: it a few times, went through sessions, called it wonderful.

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Speaker 1: He re experienced his own birth, which apparently a few

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Speaker 1: people did. I've never heard of that. I haven't either.

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Speaker 1: And um Claire Booth Loose was a playwright married to

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Speaker 1: Time magazine publisher Henry Loose. She was also an ambassador

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Speaker 1: and possibly an agent um for the US government, and

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Speaker 1: they both took acid so much that Henry Loose and

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Speaker 1: Time Magazine said we need to write about this. This

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Speaker 1: is awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of good press that

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Speaker 1: Time Magazine gave LSD in the fifties, um as a

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Speaker 1: basically a cure. All Um, and again, Carrie Grant got

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Speaker 1: into it big time. Apparently he had like at least

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Speaker 1: a hundred trips. I believe. Yeah he was. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about him for a second, because he was one

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Speaker 1: of these guys that carefully constru truct did his persona.

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Speaker 1: He worked very hard apparently he was the The line

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Speaker 1: he always gave was a lot of people want to

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Speaker 1: be carried grant, and I'm one of them, indicating that

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Speaker 1: this suave, Mr cool persona was completely fabricating, created by

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Speaker 1: himself so he could get you know, the fame and everything,

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Speaker 1: but deep down he suffered as a human until he

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Speaker 1: started taking acid, right, and then he had um, well,

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Speaker 1: he had some pretty interesting revelations, one of which I

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Speaker 1: read one of the somebody thought to write down the

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Speaker 1: stuff that he Some of the insights he had, um,

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Speaker 1: some were kind of deep. Others were like, if I

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Speaker 1: have to look at a man, he should be required

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Speaker 1: to comb his hair and brush his teeth and wear

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Speaker 1: a clean shirt. Yes, it was interesting, so it kind

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Speaker 1: of ran the gamut. But yeah, he um he became

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Speaker 1: a real devotee of l s D. He's yeah, and

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Speaker 1: um well she got him into it, right. I think

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Speaker 1: who wrote that We're we're part of this. We're basing

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Speaker 1: this part on a Vanity Fair article art. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's called the Carrying the Sky with Diamonds. But he

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Speaker 1: was a huge advocate for LSD. He wasn't the only one, um,

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Speaker 1: but he lived to see it outlawed and public sentiment

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Speaker 1: turn against it, right, just like m D, m a UM, pilocybin, magic,

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Speaker 1: mushrooms and part of the well really one of the

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Speaker 1: You could say that Timothy Leary almost single handedly led

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Speaker 1: to the tremendous suffering of a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: might otherwise have been helped by LSD with his his

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Speaker 1: naive bravado of you know, the establishment just needs to

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Speaker 1: get over its hang ups and we should all take acid.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not you agree that that's a good idea,

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Speaker 1: it's a stupid thing to say. Leary was originally a

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Speaker 1: Harvard side chiatrist, right, yes, and he started taking I

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Speaker 1: think mushrooms and then he eventually started taking LSD and

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Speaker 1: was fired from Harvard because he turned into a hippie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and um, that was pretty much the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: end of LSD. Yeah, they may have continued to use

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Speaker 1: LSD as treatment for mental patients, mental illness and depression

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Speaker 1: if not for Timothy Leary, who was trying to spread

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Speaker 1: the word about acid. That's right. Uh, back to carry

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Speaker 1: Grant real quick. He was so into it, Josh. He

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Speaker 1: had a couple of stories written about him in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty nine and Look magazine, the Curious Story behind the

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Speaker 1: New Carry. Grant gave a glowing account of LSD and

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Speaker 1: then this is the best the following year the Good

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Speaker 1: Housekeeping magazine. It got the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty issue and they called it the

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Speaker 1: Secret of Grant's Second youth. I want to get a

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Speaker 1: copy of that magazine. How awesome would that be? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of like the theme of this podcast

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Speaker 1: is so weird that these things were considered incredibly wonderful

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Speaker 1: and benign um and now they're they're just viewed as

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Speaker 1: just so they're evil and their outlaws simply because they

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Speaker 1: were made illegal right prohibited um. And again there's kind

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Speaker 1: of a movement toward saying, hey, you know, maybe Timothy

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Speaker 1: Leary did give this a bad name. Maybe that that

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Speaker 1: um underground chemist in Dallas, uh really kind of put

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Speaker 1: a terrible spread on this, and we should look at

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Speaker 1: these again, right, she cannot tell one more story? Yes?

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Speaker 1: From Hollywood of the nineteen sixties. Yes, Esther Williams, famous

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Speaker 1: UH diva actress from the n g M studio friend

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Speaker 1: of Carrie Grants, called Carrie Grant up after these articles

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Speaker 1: and said, Hey, can you introduce me to your doctor,

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Speaker 1: Dr Hartman? He did so. At the time, she was aging,

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Speaker 1: just had gone through a divorce, Her husband left her

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Speaker 1: with huge debt with the I R S. And she

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Speaker 1: was still struggling with the death of her sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old brother. She goes in the office, she takes acid,

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Speaker 1: does her session, goes home to her parents, still on acid,

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Speaker 1: has dinner with them, and then goes into the bathroom mirror,

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Speaker 1: says good night to her parents, looks in the mirror,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna read this quote. I was startled by

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Speaker 1: a split image one half of my face, the right

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Speaker 1: half was me, the other half was the face of

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Speaker 1: a sixteen year old boy. The left side of my

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Speaker 1: upper body was flat and muscular. I reached up with

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Speaker 1: my boys hand to touch my right breast and felt

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Speaker 1: my penis stirring. It was a hermaphroditic phantasm. And I

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Speaker 1: understood perfectly in that moment. When my brother died, I

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Speaker 1: took him into my life so completely he became part

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Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, that's a pretty huge thing to understand

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Speaker 1: and pretty jarring way to come to terms with that, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's what they're finding out now though, is that

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Speaker 1: these people are having these breakthroughs in the throes of

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Speaker 1: their final days of let's say cancer, and they have

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Speaker 1: these epiphanies. So LSD is outlawed. We're following a timeline here. Yes,

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Speaker 1: LSD is outlawed in I think sixty five something like that.

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Speaker 1: UM at the very at the latest nineteen seventy they

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Speaker 1: shut down the shop in Beverly Hills. Yeah, and Sandos

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Speaker 1: stopped making it and it got it was outlawed and

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Speaker 1: pushed underground. M D m A made it until and

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Speaker 1: M D m A story is linked very closely to

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Speaker 1: a guy named Dr George Quarte, who is JOHNS. Hopkins researcher.

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Speaker 1: This floored me so in about the time the UM

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Speaker 1: D e A is reeling from being caught totally unaware

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Speaker 1: by the crack epidemic. Uh and basically a lot of

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Speaker 1: people think looking for a whipping post um they they

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Speaker 1: start considering outlawing M D m A. At that moment,

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Speaker 1: this guy, Dr George roccarde Um publishes a study that

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Speaker 1: he says, this drug deplete your serotonin levels permanently, causing

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Speaker 1: brain damage. Right, it can kill you. Yeah, Well that

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Speaker 1: that didn't that came. So this guy, who is unknown

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Speaker 1: at the time, publishes the study, starts to get UM

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Speaker 1: National Institute of Drug Abuse funding. So basically this is

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Speaker 1: his job. He starts a career UM creating scientific evidence

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Speaker 1: in favor of banning drugs leads to the outlaw of

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Speaker 1: m d M. A right. That wasn't quite enough. They

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Speaker 1: scheduled it. Uh. The FEDS went after m d M

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Speaker 1: A even harder, and in two thousand two they came

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Speaker 1: up with this thing called the Rave Act. It's um,

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Speaker 1: what does rave stand for? Reducing Americans vulnerability to ecstasy?

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Speaker 1: I wonder how long they sat around looking at the

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Speaker 1: word rave, saying we've gotta make it fit, Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: make it fit Yeah. So um, the the Rave Act

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Speaker 1: basically said, if you are a club owner and somebody

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Speaker 1: gets caught taking ecstasy or has ecstasy at your club,

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Speaker 1: we're going to shut down your club. It was a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge law, and it was bolstered by another UM another

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Speaker 1: study by Dr George rocquarde Um that found that he

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Speaker 1: tested on ten monkeys one he injected them with m

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Speaker 1: d M a UM, A bunch of them went psychotic.

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Speaker 1: Some of them UM showed early signs of Parkinson's all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, and two of them died almost immediately

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Speaker 1: after being injected. So people started asking questions about this, like,

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Speaker 1: what what are you talking about? People have been taking

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Speaker 1: this drug forever and this has never happened. So they

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Speaker 1: started kind of going after recording and UM, they found

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Speaker 1: out that he had actually injected him with methamphetamine. The

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Speaker 1: first thing that tipped them off as he injected him,

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Speaker 1: because people were like, well, you don't inject ecstasy, so

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a weird way to do it. And

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Speaker 1: then they found out it was methamphetamines, which he blamed

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Speaker 1: on a mislabeling of a drug shipment which they traced

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Speaker 1: back and they went the label right here. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: drug providers like, don't blame must, it's pretty clear. So

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Speaker 1: this is by this time, the Rave Act has already

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Speaker 1: passed her and the Rave Act didn't get past but

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Speaker 1: something that included that UM was passed by that time.

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Speaker 1: The study that recorded a produced was pretty was published

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Speaker 1: in Science, the journal Science. Like that's as hyebrow as

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Speaker 1: you get as far as scientific journals. Um, And finally

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Speaker 1: he gets beaten up and up that he he prints

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Speaker 1: a full retraction came clean. The Science runs this retraction

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Speaker 1: saying the whole, the whole study that I produced just

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Speaker 1: forget it ever existed. But that doesn't happen much, No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. That's very unusual. So record A I get

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Speaker 1: the impression is kind of this. Um, well, it just

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Speaker 1: kind of seems like the scientific community views him largely

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Speaker 1: as a shill to the government. Yeah. Um. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of articles that he shows up in on a

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Speaker 1: Reason and Reason magazines were checking out. Yeah. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the other interesting thing about that whole story about the

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Speaker 1: big fake study he did with meth amphetamines as ecstasy

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Speaker 1: is that the Parkinson's Foundation, the people Parkinson's researchers, said,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that that's true. That doesn't make much

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Speaker 1: sense to us either, that they would show signs of

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Speaker 1: Parkinson's right, so they looked into it. People went about

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Speaker 1: reproducing his study. Yeah. Um, and the people who run

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Speaker 1: the Parkinson's Foundation actually issued a statement saying ecstasy does

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Speaker 1: not do this, So they basically came out in favor

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Speaker 1: of ecstasy. It's kind of neat to watch from the

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Speaker 1: outside because there's this guy who's again kind of viewed

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Speaker 1: as a shill for the government who's beating up on

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Speaker 1: this drug that a lot of people who are also

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Speaker 1: in the scientific community feel is being unfairly outlawed, and

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Speaker 1: so there's kind of beating up on him in retaliation.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of neat to see eggheads beat up on

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Speaker 1: one another, NERD fights and the n I d A.

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Speaker 1: It went so far that the n I d A

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Speaker 1: just kind of quietly pulled their fact sheet on ecstasy

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Um, let's just take this down

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Speaker 1: off the website. After the retraction, we'll rewrite it. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's back up now as something else. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't include immediate death and Parkinson's disease. I would

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Speaker 1: imagine that's right. So Timothy Larry dies, he gets shot

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Speaker 1: into space, he's out of the picture entirely. Everybody gets

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Speaker 1: sick of hippies generally. Yeah, Um, George Record is basically

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Speaker 1: the guy who's single handedly getting ecstasy outlawed. His work

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00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: comes into great, great question, and people start going back

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Speaker 1: and looking at M D m A again, and they

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Speaker 1: start looking at LSD again, and that's where we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves right now. Slowly but surely, people are starting to

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Speaker 1: run studies on whether or not you can use these

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Speaker 1: hallucinogens to treat mental illness. And the results are pretty

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Speaker 1: astounding actually, and you know where they're leading the charge

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Speaker 1: in Switzerland, in Los Angeles all these years later, same place, Yes,

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Speaker 1: hippie freaks. Yeah, so yeah, Josh, they are I think

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Speaker 1: in Switzerland. Uh, in Solo then Switzerland. They have been

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Speaker 1: experimenting with lsd um psilocybin, which you might know his

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Speaker 1: magic mushrooms. Yes, ketamine you might know, a special k.

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Speaker 1: That kind of surprised me that that was in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't heard much about that one either. And getting

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Speaker 1: these uh, these studies published in Nature Reviews, Neuroscience, and

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Speaker 1: other you know, leading industry peer reviewed publications. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not all under the table back room experiments. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: these are very heavily um overseen. You have to be

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Speaker 1: a very legitimate researcher to get government approval. They're not

356
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Speaker 1: funded though still there's they say they're still having a

357
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Speaker 1: hard time with funding, and they're just they're sort of

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Speaker 1: looking to get some restrictions loosen. They're not saying make

359
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Speaker 1: all this stuff legal, right, They're not battling a legalization

360
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Speaker 1: on the legalization front at all. But what they're one

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Speaker 1: of the reason why so many people are kind of

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Speaker 1: starting to put their reputations on the line. Um, it's

363
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Speaker 1: because the results that they're seeing. So we have antidepressants, right, UM,

364
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Speaker 1: they take weeks to kick in, they have all sorts

365
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Speaker 1: of side effects. And what they're what we're seeing in

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Speaker 1: these studies now, are that the the things like ketamine,

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Speaker 1: uh m d m A, LSD are having like a

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Speaker 1: huge impact right out of the gate. There's one study,

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Speaker 1: um that came out in July, I believe, UM, and

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Speaker 1: it found it was a study of twelve people who

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Speaker 1: were diagnosed with PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: one of the big ones. Yeah, that's huge that they're

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Speaker 1: looking at. UM. That's where you well, it's what we

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Speaker 1: used to call shell shock. You go through traumatic experience

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Speaker 1: and you relive it over and over again. UM, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's debilitating. Um. They found that of the twelve

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Speaker 1: people in the study, ten of them, after going through

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Speaker 1: the study, UM, after taking M D m A no

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Speaker 1: longer met the criteria to be diagnosed with PTSD afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Ten of the twelve. Yeah, and for my understanding, and

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Speaker 1: most of these studies is it's not like you have

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Speaker 1: to stay on ecstasy your whole life, Like a lot

383
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Speaker 1: of people have these epiphanies and they quit taking it

384
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Speaker 1: and they have changed their outlook and that right, Yeah,

385
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Speaker 1: that's the impression I'm getting to. Um, Ketamine's good for

386
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Speaker 1: depression in the same way. Um, just a very tiny

387
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: dose I can get you over severe clinical depression. Or

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00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: that's the results, the early results, we should say, yeah,

389
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Speaker 1: um and everything from quitting smoking two suicidal thought, Yeah,

390
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: cluster headaches Harvard studying. Those are migraines for men, right,

391
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: what they called my migraines. I think I know they're

392
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Speaker 1: so debilitating that you consider suicide or you know not

393
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Speaker 1: everyone does obviously, but it's just this awful, awful pain.

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Speaker 1: You can't leave your house, you get to sit in

395
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Speaker 1: a dark room, and so it's helping there. And um,

396
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Speaker 1: what I thought was interesting Johns Hopkins, you might have

397
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: heard of them, a little reputable institutions required is from

398
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: was it they did an experiment where they gave psilocybin

399
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: too emotionally stable individuals like this wasn't even people that

400
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Speaker 1: were mentally ill, people that had never taken hallucinogens before,

401
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: which is interesting that you would be. I think they

402
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: had a sixty four year old that signed up for this. Yeah,

403
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: it's crazy, and they said a sixty four and they

404
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: said the experiment. A year later, they said the experience

405
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: is one of the most meaningful and spiritual experiences of

406
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Speaker 1: their entire lives, and that those were mentally stable folks,

407
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: And this is a year on it's still had an

408
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: impact on them. UM. They're also finding that UH O,

409
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Speaker 1: c D and basically mood disorders are the primary target

410
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Speaker 1: of hallucinogenic treatment, right, psychedelics for treatment, and the reason being,

411
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Speaker 1: we think, is because they target serotonin in the brain.

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Speaker 1: This is another reason why they're not addictive. They don't

413
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Speaker 1: they don't employ the reward circuit in the brain, which

414
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: is how we become addicted to things were flooded with dopamine. Member,

415
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: it just affects the mood circuits in the right serotonin.

416
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Speaker 1: And we don't really have a very good grasp on

417
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Speaker 1: serotonin and exactly how that works, but we do know

418
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Speaker 1: that UM, there's correlations between uh high levels of serotonin

419
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Speaker 1: or low levels of serotonin and depression, right, and we

420
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: know that UM using antidepressants which block the reuptake of

421
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: serotonin UM reduces symptoms of clinical depression in people. So

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00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: we know that serotonins in there somewhere. We know that

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Speaker 1: the more serotonin you have, the better generally or low

424
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: serotonin's bad. Uh. And then we also know that hallucinogens

425
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: target this somehow. That's pretty much where the research stands

426
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: right now. It makes you wonder where would we be

427
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: if LSD and m d m A hadn't been in

428
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: the wilderness for the last few decades. Well, yeah, they

429
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: may have a pill, like a low dose pill, because

430
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of these studies, just so you know, back

431
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: in carry Grand State, that mean it was full, full

432
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: on acid trips. But a lot of these, like the

433
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: psilocybin pills, they will give you be very low dose.

434
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: So I don't I get the feeling that it's not

435
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: like this huge mushroom trip that a lot of patients

436
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: are going through because it said I think of the

437
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: people recognized when they did not have the placebo. So

438
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: if it wasn't then it was probably a pretty low dose. Yes,

439
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: it would be. My guess, um, would you if if

440
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: everything was legalized UM and M D m A came

441
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: to be prescribed for just happiness, right, would you take it?

442
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: Would you take a happy pill that was legal and

443
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: didn't have side effects? Not to say m d M

444
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: A doesn't have side effects, there's a um like basically

445
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: the three days after a depression that follows when your

446
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: serotonin levels are repleting themselves. I don't think I would

447
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: because there are quote unquote happy pills now. And I

448
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: mean it's not like I'm against anti depressants or things

449
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: like that, because people definitely benefit from those who need them.

450
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: But I just I don't need that kind of thing,

451
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: so I would not. Uh, I would not, sir, you

452
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 1: are not alone, Chuck. There is a survey conducted for

453
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: this BBC series on Britain of British people that found

454
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: that seventy of them said that they would not take

455
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: a happy pill it was legal and had no side effects.

456
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: It's interesting, yeah, because it kind of I think that

457
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: for a large segment of the population there's just the

458
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: idea of synthesizing happiness is untoward. Yeah, you know, yeah,

459
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: it's it's a little weird. I mean that's not to

460
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: say I'm a square and I don't like to get

461
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: down another aspect, Josh. I mean, we're we're talking right

462
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: now about literally the effect it has on your brain

463
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: and your serotonin levels and your moods. They've also found

464
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: that patients cancer patients in particular, who consume hallucinogens, or

465
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: people with just um traumatic events from earlier in their life,

466
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: they have the ability to relive some of these memories

467
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 1: and events from their past. They can unlock buried traumatic episodes,

468
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: deal with them psychologically, put them to rest, and come

469
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: out the other side with a new understanding free from

470
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: these demons. Right. Um. You remember when in the hypnosis

471
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: episode where we were talking about how the way it's

472
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: viewed now is that you you are You're accessing the

473
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: subconscious eesah more easily. It's like popping open a control panel.

474
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: That's what this. This is what they're seeing with M

475
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: D m A. Apparently, Uh, you are able to access

476
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: things UM from a very empathetic way. I think the

477
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: term I've heard for it is called UM a psychotherapeutic catalyst. Yeah,

478
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: kick starts right things And I think one researcher called

479
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: it it's psychotherapy sped up. The psychiatrists call them. Yeah,

480
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: it's like psycho arap on acid L s D. Specifically,

481
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: hasn't been the greatest friend to everybody who's ever taken it.

482
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: And what's funny in this article that UM that's on

483
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: the site. Can we treat mental illness with hallucinogens? Tom

484
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Sheaf has to go to the sixties psychedelic rock scene

485
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: to find examples of people who have had a bad,

486
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: bad time on acid. Uh, And apparently, what what the

487
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: conventional wisdom is if you are predisposed to mental illness,

488
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: LSD can exacerbate that. If you have a bad trip up,

489
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: you're going to have a really, really bad trip because

490
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 1: you're already predisposed to mental illness. Yeah, he's Brian Wilson

491
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: and Sid Barrett as the two examples, and those are

492
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: stellar examples, they really got to say. But they're also

493
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: counterintwo to what we're seeing with UM. Like PTSD, you

494
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: are already suffering from a mental illness. So here's some

495
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: m D m A right, Probably LSD would be horrible

496
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: to give to a PTSD survivor. Yeah, yeah, right, I

497
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: would say, so, UM And what else, Chuck, can we

498
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: talk about Pamela Secuda? Sure? Yeah, it's a very interesting story.

499
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: This was a woman UM aged fifty seven at the

500
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: time of this article, who was in the final stages

501
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: of colon cancer. She had outlived her prognosis. She was

502
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: anxious and depressed. She was worried about her family, her husband,

503
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 1: and what they were going to do without her. It

504
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 1: was not a good life. She was living here at

505
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: the end and she was prescribed any depressants. Of course,

506
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: it didn't work, didn't do a thing for so she

507
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: volunteered for an experiment at u c l A in

508
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: two thousand five and started taking psilocybin, the magic mushroom

509
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: pill in pill form. She had a lot of breakthroughs. Uh.

510
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: They brought her husband in at the end of one

511
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: of the sessions and he said, there's my Pammy. She

512
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: was just beaming with light and I haven't seen her

513
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: that joyous and so long. She was totally alive and happy.

514
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: And she continued to take it until she didn't need

515
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: it anymore. She had these breakthroughs, and then all of

516
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: a sudden, her husband and uh, Pamela were going to concerts,

517
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: they went hiking at the Grand Canyon, they went on vacations.

518
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: They did all these things that she hadn't been doing

519
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: in a long time. Because of these epiphanies she had

520
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: under the influence of psilocybin and sadly she died, well,

521
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: she had cancer. Yeah, she died. Yeah, that's what she

522
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: died from in two thousand six. And her husband said

523
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: she died in his arms. But her husband was very

524
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: a pre shive and they actually did a benefit about

525
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: a week before she died for the institute that was

526
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: doing this work at U c l A. So it's

527
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Yeah, the definitely, And one of the applications

528
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: that they're finding is end of life care for UM

529
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: using M D m A or LSD R PSILOCYBIN'M sure

530
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: we're special, k. Apparently what about this eyeba gain. They're

531
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: finding the eyeba gain works really well. Iber gain is

532
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: a UM it's from a hallucinatory root plant in Africa,

533
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: I believe UM. And they're finding that you go on

534
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: a thirty six hour trip. That's a long time. It's

535
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: a long time, but they're finding that it's really effective

536
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: in breaking UM addiction and like serious addictions to like heroin,

537
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: yeah and cocaine. So being on this stuff just for

538
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: thirty six hours creates a break in the addiction cycle itself.

539
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: But what they're finding this. Most notable about it is

540
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: it there's a lack of withdrawal symptoms that you see

541
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: in every other type of addiction removal. Yeah, especially with heroin.

542
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: Like heroin, you're supposed to have physical withdraw sintom withdrawal symptoms,

543
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: and people who are taking eyeba gain are not experiencing

544
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: that like they would if if they tried to kick

545
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: the habit without it. It's pretty remarkable. Yeah, it is

546
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: very remarkable. It's very interesting. We should probably say, I

547
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: don't know if we have yet that this podcast is

548
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: in no way an endorsement of going out and buying

549
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: yourself some street drugs and you know, seeing what happens.

550
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: It's a study of what we finally be very fascinating.

551
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: The fact that this is there's been a resurgence in

552
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: this and these you know, qualified doctors U. C. L. A.

553
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins, they're saying we should look into this stuff. Yeah,

554
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: and they definitely are, and they're getting some very interesting results.

555
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: What about the A A guy, We should mention that

556
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: really quickly. That was pretty funny. Oh yeah, Bill Wilson

557
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: yet one of the co founders of A A. Yeah,

558
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: he uh he apparently took LSD in the fifties, wasn't Yeah,

559
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: And this is after he was long after he was

560
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: sober from alcohol. Yeah, can found ance the thirties? I think, yeah. Um.

561
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: And so he takes LSD in the fifties and is like,

562
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: this is really helpful. Um, so I think everybody who

563
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: comes into a should take LSD. Uh. And they were like,

564
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: he should probably not do that, so they talked him

565
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: out of it. But the reason why he found it

566
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: helpful one is that hallucinogen's part of a twelve step

567
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: program is to really reflect on past wrongdoings and then

568
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: elucidate them to another human being. And apparently LSD, M

569
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: D M A UM, these other drugs help. They serve

570
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: as a catalyst for that process, so tap into that.

571
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: That's why Bill Wilson I thought this is this is

572
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: really helpful because again it'sycho therapy sped up, fascinating, very fascinating.

573
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: I will say this though, I'm gonna go out on

574
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: a limb and say, even though we're not saying, oh,

575
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: you should go out and do these things, I will

576
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: say that some chemically created in a lab pill called

577
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: an antidepressant, isn't I mean what's the difference. The difference

578
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: is I think, in my opinion from what I've seen, Uh,

579
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: one's marketed and legal and the other is illegal. Yeah,

580
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: it's as simple as that one is made by murk

581
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: and one is not made by murk but used to

582
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: make this, which is ironic. Public sentiment counts for everything. Yeah,

583
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same reason the alcohol. You can

584
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: go into a bar and get completely wasted out of

585
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: your mind and get in a car, but you can't

586
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: walk into a bar and smoke a joint or shoot

587
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: heroin or shoot heroin. And we're not labbying for anything.

588
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: It's just interesting that the things that society has deemed

589
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 1: acceptable alcoholism is just fine. Well it's not just fine,

590
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: but it's it's legal, and you can do it even

591
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: though it kills all these people, and this is not acceptable.

592
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: It's just it's funny how we've evolved to think things

593
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: are evil and some things are just great. I wonder

594
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: where the future holds, Josh, I wonder myself. We'll find out, Yes,

595
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: we will, if we lived that long. That is about

596
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: it for this one. You should probably check out Can

597
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: we treat mental illness with hallucinogens? On the site. Be

598
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: sure to check out Carrying the Sky with Diamonds Vanity

599
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: Fair article type in George Rick Quarte r I C

600
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: U A R T e uh into Reasons website that

601
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: will bring up some cool stuff. There's a killer Time

602
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: magazine article from I think two thousand or two thousand

603
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: one um on ecstasy on M D M A uh

604
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: it was. That's really It's called the Happiness and a Pill.

605
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: I guess it's time now for listener mail, right, Yes,

606
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: I have a listener mail Josh from Rhea and this

607
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: was about octopus or octopi, but we were corrected octopies

608
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: not right, but she says it she worked at high

609
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: so right, well, we had all these people see and

610
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: actually the Latin thing Jerry just left at that. Hi, guys,

611
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: your podcast on Octopi made my day to day. Thank you.

612
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: I work as an aquarist at a San Francisco aquarium

613
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: and one of my favorite responsibilities is our cephalopod gallery.

614
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: I get to do enrichment with giant Pacific octopods, make

615
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: sure all of our eight legged friends stay out of trouble.

616
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: And I'm currently teaching a two spot octopus how to

617
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: open a jar to get his favorite food, which is

618
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: live crabs. I'm right there with you fromstr octopus. Uh.

619
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: It was great to hear someone besides myself get a

620
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: little too excited about these critters. And you know, we've

621
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: got great feedback on this. People love the octopus because

622
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: they're so freaky. Uh. The story about Lucretia mc evil

623
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: especially cracked me up. I work with the g p O.

624
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: That's the giant Pacific octopod that might give her a

625
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: run for money. For the past few weeks, I've been

626
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: walking around with what my colleagues call octopus kisses up

627
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: the length of my arms. But I'm afraid my husband

628
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: is getting a little suspicious about the number of Vicky's

629
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: I've been acquiring. So that's from the little suckers. Those

630
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: little suckers clearly. Uh. These were given to me while

631
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: I tried to remove the individual from blocking the flow

632
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: to his tank and stop his flooding of the entire aquarium.

633
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: It's never a boring day with cephalopods in your life. Guys.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for all the great podcast. If you're ever in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, one of my favorite places, Josh, let me

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Speaker 1: know and I'll see if I can't work out some

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes cephalopod goodness. And that is from Rhea,

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Speaker 1: and she says, and don't worry, by the way, I

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Speaker 1: have trouble pronouncing hecto caudless as well and have taken

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Speaker 1: to calling in the sperm tentacle. Sperm tentacle works, the spermacle.

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Speaker 1: That's what she says. She says, it's time to rename

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Speaker 1: that organ. Yes, well, thanks Rhea, right, yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: My dad always said life is better with stuffalo pods

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Speaker 1: in it. Really yeah. Uh, if you have a fantastic

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Speaker 1: saying that your father, mother, grandfather, some old timing person

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Speaker 1: told you, we want to hear it, wrap it up

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Speaker 1: in an email, spank it on the bottom, and then

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Speaker 1: send it to Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.