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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Ann Wilson. A party and how are

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Speaker 1: you doing. I'm doing great. Good to see you now.

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Speaker 1: You say you're out in the country without giving us

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Speaker 1: your address. Generally speaking, where are you Northeast Florida close

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Speaker 1: to St. Augustine, the way out in the country in

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Speaker 1: a rural setting. If you're from the Pacific Northwest, how

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Speaker 1: did you end up in Florida with humidity? And which

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Speaker 1: do you prefer? I prefer the Pacific Northwest in the

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Speaker 1: summer and fall. I prefer Florida in the spring and winter.

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Speaker 1: So I guess that's kind of a snowbird thing, isn't

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Speaker 1: it right? Right? But we're talking in July, so it

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite make sense, right, Yeah, I know, But I'm

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Speaker 1: working right now. I can't just visit where I want

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Speaker 1: to visit, you know. Um, it's too hot here right now.

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Speaker 1: It's too hot and humid. Okay, So you say you're working,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing. I'm getting ready to start setting

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Speaker 1: up a new album that's gonna come out the first

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Speaker 1: quarter of twenty two, and I'm getting ready to go

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Speaker 1: out and do some more gigs. And uh, I'm just

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Speaker 1: involved in all this new music and gigs and stuff. Okay,

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Speaker 1: needless to say, the music business has changed from when

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Speaker 1: you started, and it's hard for any it's hard for

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Speaker 1: anybody to get recognition with their new recordings. So what

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Speaker 1: keeps you motivated? Well, I think what keeps me motivated

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Speaker 1: now that everything is so different is uh, kind of

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Speaker 1: the same um impetus that got me going in the

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Speaker 1: first place, which is just I had things to say,

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Speaker 1: and I had ideas that just keep banging around in

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Speaker 1: my head and in my soul that I want to

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Speaker 1: set to music. It's it's hard to describe why musicians

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Speaker 1: want to do it from the inside out. It's easy

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Speaker 1: to understand why they might want to create an image

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Speaker 1: and have fame and all that kind of stuff from

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Speaker 1: the outside in, But what makes you just scrape it

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Speaker 1: together and go from zero to something on your own?

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Speaker 1: And that's that's really what I've found since we've been

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Speaker 1: in lockdown and all that kind of stuff in the

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Speaker 1: music business shut down. There's no money to be made really,

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Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So so what motivates that creative process?

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Speaker 1: You're just lying in bed, something comes to you. What says, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to start. I gotta get my thoughts down.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty emotional, and I guess I'm feisty. And so

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Speaker 1: you put those two things together, and you you need

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Speaker 1: an outlet, even though nobody might be listening. It's a

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Speaker 1: way to handle the energy and force of these emotions.

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Speaker 1: So I come from a family that loves poetry and

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Speaker 1: loves words. You know. My father used to stand up

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Speaker 1: after a few glasses of wine and recite poetry to

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Speaker 1: the to the friends and family and stuff, and a

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Speaker 1: tear would come down. And and uh, that's where I

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Speaker 1: come from, so that I love words. I love to write.

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Speaker 1: You say, you say your emotional and feisty. Yeah, since

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Speaker 1: you lay that out there, how does that manifest itself?

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Speaker 1: How do you describe yourself that way? What does it

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Speaker 1: ultimately mean? I guess it means I want my way

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Speaker 1: just and by that I mean I want to get

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Speaker 1: these things down and physicalize them, bring them into the world,

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Speaker 1: make them be. Do you usually get your way? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I don't get it my way all the time, but uh,

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Speaker 1: when I do, it sure feels good. It really really does.

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Speaker 1: And how does it feel when you don't get your way? Frustrating,

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Speaker 1: totally frustrating, and it just makes me want to try

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Speaker 1: harder to find another way to get it, you know,

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Speaker 1: and in writing songs and making music and everything. At

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Speaker 1: this point, after all these years of doing it, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting what I'm going through now because I'm working with

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Speaker 1: much younger people in the studio as players, and uh,

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Speaker 1: some of them at the technical level are much younger,

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Speaker 1: and so I feel kind of like in some cases

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Speaker 1: the wise old owl. Not not that I know everybody's business,

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Speaker 1: but I have to teach everyone my business. They weren't

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Speaker 1: around to understand what it was like at the beginning

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Speaker 1: and the feelings that we tried to access at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You know, how did you get hooked up with these

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Speaker 1: younger people. I was just looking for fresh input and

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Speaker 1: players that were trying to push the envelope out and

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Speaker 1: level up and move forward, you know, and especially I

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Speaker 1: was looking for people that weren't dying on the vine,

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Speaker 1: who weren't just resting on their laurels. I was looking

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Speaker 1: for an escape from riding the old horse down, you know,

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Speaker 1: from getting into a cycle of just going out and

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Speaker 1: playing the sheds and repeating and repeating until there's nothing left.

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Speaker 1: I really didn't want to do that. So how did

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Speaker 1: you literally find these people? Oh? Literally just by asking around?

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Speaker 1: So you're in Florida. Now where you actually going to

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Speaker 1: record the record? I recorded a few of the songs

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Speaker 1: at Muscle Shoals, and a few of them in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: and a few of them in Seattle. And who's producing

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Speaker 1: the record? Well, it's produced by me, and by mostly

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Speaker 1: by me. I guess there's like, there's no set producer

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Speaker 1: except for me. I'm where the buck stops on this.

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Speaker 1: And where did you find the money to record? In

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Speaker 1: my pocket? So it's your money, so in your idea

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Speaker 1: and you're in your mind, what was the budget for

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Speaker 1: how much you wanted to spend for this new project?

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Speaker 1: Oh god, I never thought of it that way. I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'll pay as much as it takes to bring these

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Speaker 1: ideas to fruition. And luckily I'm married to someone who

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Speaker 1: really understands how to tighten the belt and uh cut

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Speaker 1: costs and do do things in a really smart way.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't the big old lavish record recording experience

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Speaker 1: of the past, of the eighties or nineties. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty close to the leather and and lean,

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Speaker 1: but I like the way it sounds. Okay, So how

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Speaker 1: far along are you in the project? Well, I'm done recording,

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Speaker 1: You're done? Yeah, so you have the record? Is not

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Speaker 1: gonna come out to the four first quarter? Uh? How's

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Speaker 1: it going to come out? As there a label? You're

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Speaker 1: gonna do it yourself? And why wait to the first quarter? Well,

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Speaker 1: we're dangling it around to all the labels. Now it's done.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to say here it is. What do

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Speaker 1: you think it's the labels that want to wait until

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Speaker 1: the first quarter because they need to have actual time

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Speaker 1: to set it up. You know, you're gonna make a

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Speaker 1: deal with one label? Maybe, I don't know. It's still

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Speaker 1: depends on what they come back with. We only are

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Speaker 1: um showing it around, like starting right now, so I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it'll take a while for them to go through

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Speaker 1: their process where they go, let's see, do we hear

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Speaker 1: a single? You know if that's that old thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Wednesday morning singles meeting? You know absolutely? Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: Since you are you a student of the game or

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Speaker 1: the type of person who just makes the music and

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Speaker 1: let the business people take care of it, or you

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Speaker 1: know how the label works. You're talking to people. You're

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Speaker 1: in the woods in the weed. Excuse me. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I'm in the weeds that much. I think that

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Speaker 1: over the years I've gone in the weeds a little

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Speaker 1: bit and been frustrated the question. But you're you said

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Speaker 1: you're earlier, feisty person, and you know, you scratch the

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Speaker 1: itch and then sometimes things happen. The music is a

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Speaker 1: music similar to the music you've made before, rock music

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Speaker 1: or is it different? Oh, it's it's rock music for sure,

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Speaker 1: and it's it goes from soft emotional ballad all the

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Speaker 1: way up to pretty out there, balls out rock, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've got this great band that's called The

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Speaker 1: Amazing Dogs, and they they're just cooler than cool, just

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Speaker 1: so great players. Tony Lucido on base and Tombukavac on guitar,

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Speaker 1: and um young guy from Seattle named Shanty Lane on

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Speaker 1: drums and Paul Moke on keyboards. I mean, they're they're

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Speaker 1: really amazing. The rhythm section in particular so good. So

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Speaker 1: how old are these guys? I think they're in there

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Speaker 1: late thirties, mid forties. They're young. Yeah, when you reference

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Speaker 1: when you reference the seventies, whatever, they have any idea

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. They're fans of the music. They

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Speaker 1: love Barracuda for instance. It's just it's sick how much

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Speaker 1: guys in bands, younger guys in bands want to play Barracuda.

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Speaker 1: They just want to play that song and a few

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Speaker 1: others like it, Magic Man, stuff like that. Do you

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Speaker 1: get tired of Barracuda? Yeah? So how do you cope?

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Speaker 1: How do you cope with that? Um? Well, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Just it's only like four minutes. I like Veracuda. I

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Speaker 1: think that the the idea behind it is great. The

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Speaker 1: the Heart version with Roger Fisher playing guitar was pretty iconic.

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Speaker 1: So to me, it's it's just trying to recapture the

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Speaker 1: spirit of the song that makes it interesting to do

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Speaker 1: now because we don't have that Roger Fisher sound now.

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Speaker 1: And do you sometimes sing it and think about your

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Speaker 1: laundry or what you're gonna do after the gig? Or

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Speaker 1: you always invested in saying it? No, I'm always invested.

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Speaker 1: That's ah that that kind of split in your attention

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Speaker 1: is something that is a sin to me. When you're

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Speaker 1: up there on the mic. Okay, and so you're doing

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Speaker 1: this project independently, yet you still tour with Heart. So

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Speaker 1: how do you decide to do which one? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a really good question because it's kind of just like

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Speaker 1: the the relationship between Nancy and I is good enough,

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Speaker 1: so we can if she gets her thing done over here,

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Speaker 1: I get mind done over here. We could just say

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Speaker 1: let's do this other thing and we can do it

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Speaker 1: in terms of our relationship. But it's it's just we

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Speaker 1: want to do a Heart tour when it really matters.

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Speaker 1: We don't just want to waste it. You know, who

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Speaker 1: knows how many more years we have left with it.

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Speaker 1: It's been together for nearly fifty years now. So you

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Speaker 1: have a big birthday this year. How's that messing with

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Speaker 1: your head? Well? Yeah, I had a seventy one this year,

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Speaker 1: so uh so, you know, I don't know. I had

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Speaker 1: a couple of things I got Lukibia ten years ago

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Speaker 1: that I knew I wouldn't really live forever. Then I

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Speaker 1: turned sixty and it really fucked me up. H'm not

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Speaker 1: quite as old as you are, but I was wondering

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Speaker 1: your perspective because one thing is for sure, we're not

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Speaker 1: gonna live forever. Yeah, that's that's dang sure, yeah it.

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Speaker 1: I think seventy messed with my head and set me

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Speaker 1: back on my heels, like my my bravado just wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even take it. Seventy was just one step too far.

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Speaker 1: But then I got over it, and I just I

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Speaker 1: feel the same. Um, yeah, I don't know, it's just

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Speaker 1: seventy one. I didn't even feel because it's not one

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Speaker 1: of those years with the zero after it. Eight will

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Speaker 1: be heavy, right, you know? Well, just you know, I

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Speaker 1: think a ringo is either eight one eighty two. Paul

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Speaker 1: McCartney will be a d hard to conceive. The other thing. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are people Joe Walsh had, as somebody

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Speaker 1: else said, said, I'm too old to die young. It

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Speaker 1: used to be such a tragedy these rock stars would die.

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Speaker 1: But if you die when you're eighty, people die when

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Speaker 1: you're eighty. It's very hear that our generation is going yeah,

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Speaker 1: well except you know, eighties the new sixty. I guess so.

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Speaker 1: I think internally that's true. We just haven't learned that

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Speaker 1: physically in our bodies are bodies are not quite there.

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Speaker 1: I think that that the most challenging part of being

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Speaker 1: older in rock is just trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: you can relate to the younger music that's coming out now,

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Speaker 1: because it's coming from people whose experienced levels are so

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Speaker 1: much different. And it's hard to get interested in somebody's

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Speaker 1: song about their boyfriend when you're seventy one, you know,

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Speaker 1: so I certainly understand that lyrically, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. I have the perspective that, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: our frame of reference with because he was the Beatles

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Speaker 1: of British Invasion, San Francisco, etcetera. But Mariah Carey came

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Speaker 1: out thirty years ago. A lot of people that's all

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Speaker 1: they know. Is some they don't even know what we

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Speaker 1: grew up with. So it's hard to hard to relate

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Speaker 1: in general, it is. And one of the things that's

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Speaker 1: really hard to relate to for me is is the

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Speaker 1: way of singing, the human way of singing, which is

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Speaker 1: a way that is un altered. It's not tuned without

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Speaker 1: a tune, it's it's a human way of singing, like

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Speaker 1: jan Is saying and like Jagger saying and stuff. Those

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Speaker 1: human ways that are out of tune and imperfect and

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Speaker 1: full of imperfection, um, and those are really that's the

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Speaker 1: that's the stuff that's it's range now in our time,

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Speaker 1: it's so easy to hear Mariah Carey, but it isn't

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Speaker 1: easy to hear Mick Jagger. You know, it's our imperfections

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Speaker 1: that make us lovable. Okay, that's right. You've cut a

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Speaker 1: lot of Zeppelin songs. What's your favorite Zeppelin song? I

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Speaker 1: think my favorite Zeppelin song is No Quarter? Really? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like No Quarter up. I like the stuff from

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Speaker 1: the Zeppelin four and Houses of the Holy era really

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Speaker 1: a lot. I think they really hit some real diamonds

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Speaker 1: and that that era, So No Quarter What else going

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Speaker 1: to California see in My Time of Dying? Yeah, God

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Speaker 1: for Sticks, just some of those songs that are just

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Speaker 1: a little bit more sophisticated but still just down, you know.

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Speaker 1: I like. I love that stuff. They get kind of tricky,

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Speaker 1: like on the Crunch, and they show that their their

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Speaker 1: intelligence but their insanity at the same time. I like that.

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Speaker 1: How did you discover led Zeppelin? M Well, my best

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Speaker 1: friend in high school, uh got a hole. She turned

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Speaker 1: me onto led Zeppelin when a whole lot of love

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Speaker 1: came out, and it's one of those deals where we're

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Speaker 1: high school girls, you know, sitting in her room listening

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Speaker 1: to Plant do a lot of of and just our

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Speaker 1: mind's going crazy and what does this mean? You know,

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Speaker 1: way down inside you need it and we're like what

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Speaker 1: But you can't look away from that when you're seventeen

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Speaker 1: or eighteen or something. That's how I got turned on

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Speaker 1: the ZEP one. Well, you know, certainly on that album. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they have the Lemons song and a lot of sexual references.

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Speaker 1: Were you were you? Were you a fast girul or

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Speaker 1: were you naive? I was super naive And I remember

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Speaker 1: too well going to a led Zeppelin concert in Seattle

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Speaker 1: at the Green Lake Aqua Theater. I think it was

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Speaker 1: nine or eight and so um with Nancy and the

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Speaker 1: two of us sat there listening to led Zeppelin and

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Speaker 1: the Lemon Song and all this stuff. And by the

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Speaker 1: time the Lemon Song was half half over, I was

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Speaker 1: headed to the car because it was just too much

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Speaker 1: for me. It was like, this is too much for

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Speaker 1: me to comprehend. I don't know whether this is dirty

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Speaker 1: or whether it's incredible or what okay was to say?

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Speaker 1: They say sex, drugs and rock and roll. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: were singing, how did the sex party end up? You know?

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Speaker 1: Being awakened by real life, you know, But just the

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Speaker 1: lovers that I had and experiences, especially when I got

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Speaker 1: into um road life with the band, and I was

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Speaker 1: old enough to be in a relationship in my own

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Speaker 1: that was full fledged, you know, real relationship. Plus being

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Speaker 1: on the road with all these dudes all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's where I got my education, I think. I mean,

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Speaker 1: long before Nancy joined the band, it was just me

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Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of men in vans, in busses,

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Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I guess I learned quick. But

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Speaker 1: didn't you have Roger Fisher as a boyfriend through most

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Speaker 1: of that? Nancy had a boy friend named Roger Fisher.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me you his brother Michael Fisher. Weren't you involved

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Speaker 1: with Yes? I was, yeah, and we were together from

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Speaker 1: about seventy two to about seventy nine, and uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he he taught me everything I know. And do you

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Speaker 1: ever talked to him? Now? Occasionally will will connect on

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Speaker 1: UM line. I've he actually after we broke up, he

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Speaker 1: went on to have like eleven children with various other mayors.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and a couple of times I've reached out

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Speaker 1: to him to ask him advice on parenting anyway, But no,

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Speaker 1: we don't really hang out or anything. So, uh, when

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Speaker 1: did you know you wanted to sing as a career

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Speaker 1: right off the bat? Probably when I was fifteen. It

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Speaker 1: just it was one of those things like in Close

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Speaker 1: Encounters where he's making the mountain out of mashed potatoes

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't know why. It's just just drawn to

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Speaker 1: making this mountain out of mashed potatoes. That's what it

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Speaker 1: was for me in music. It's just like I just

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Speaker 1: that's I just knew that's what I was gonna do.

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Speaker 1: Nothing else was even a possibility, Not boyfriends, not nothing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Well what led up to that? I mean, were you

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Speaker 1: turned on by the Beatles or were you a music

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Speaker 1: head before that? What inspired you to this life? Um?

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Speaker 1: I started out by loving classical music and playing an

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Speaker 1: orchestra with the flute, and I come from a musical family,

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Speaker 1: classical music, opera, all that stuff, always playing, and so

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Speaker 1: one thing just kind of led to the next. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I started just like singing along in the family, and

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Speaker 1: then feeling the urge to sing in front of people

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Speaker 1: the family, and then church group and then whoever would listen,

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Speaker 1: and it just kept growing exponentially. Okay, were you known

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Speaker 1: as the singer growing up all that that's the girl

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Speaker 1: with the amazing voice. I didn't discover I had a

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Speaker 1: voice until about seventy when I was up in Vancouver,

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Speaker 1: about seventy four, that's when I discovered I had a voice.

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Speaker 1: Up until then, I was playing at bands, but I

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Speaker 1: was just like the chick in the band who would

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Speaker 1: sing the ballad, you know, like she'd sing Superstar by

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Speaker 1: the time I get to Phoenix or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and then and then bang of tambourine while the guys

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Speaker 1: did all the rock. We were trying to work out, uh,

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Speaker 1: some Zeppelin songs back in the early days, and none

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Speaker 1: of the guys in the band could sing that high.

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Speaker 1: So it felt to me. And that's when I discovered

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Speaker 1: that I could sing rock. So you were just you,

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Speaker 1: weren't You were playing the tambourine, singing backup vocals in

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Speaker 1: an occasional lead, and the and the cowbell and things

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Speaker 1: like clubs, and I mean, what did you see is

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Speaker 1: where you were going? Was this just another step down

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Speaker 1: the road or you said, holy ship, you know, something's

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Speaker 1: got to change here. Well, I didn't have a view

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Speaker 1: of what I was doing from the outside. I only

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Speaker 1: felt that I wanted to keep pushing up, and so, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just found different guys to be in

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Speaker 1: a band with who would like slept the gear into

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Speaker 1: the next club, and then we get a like we

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Speaker 1: played there for a week, and then somebody would come

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Speaker 1: in and go, wow, we like this week, We like

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Speaker 1: the chick. How about this club a little bit better

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Speaker 1: of a place? You know how it goes, step up,

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00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: step up, step up, until you finally get some kind

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Speaker 1: of really cool offer where they say, okay, um, Rod

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Speaker 1: Stewart was gonna play in Montreal at the Forum, but

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Speaker 1: um the opening band got six so you can open

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Speaker 1: up for Rod Stewart if you want for one night.

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Speaker 1: And then one thing leads to another. Okay, going back

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Speaker 1: before that, did you play in bands in high school? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I did. I started when I was a sophomore in

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Speaker 1: high school, just trying to just stitch it together with

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Speaker 1: whoever I could find who either had a car or

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Speaker 1: had a guitar or a shirt with a high boy

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Speaker 1: collar or something like that. You know, did you have

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Speaker 1: bands that would work during high school that got paid

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Speaker 1: to work? No? No, I don't think that I ever

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Speaker 1: got paid to play in a band really until we

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Speaker 1: were up in Vancouver, and we we're able to maybe

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Speaker 1: make ten bucks each week because we lived in a

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Speaker 1: UM in a communal situation, so we take all the

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Speaker 1: money the band would make and we'd split it all

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Speaker 1: up between the band members and the wives and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you'd end up with ten bucks a week. UM,

359
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: but that was pay, you know. That would have been

360
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Speaker 1: seventy four seventy Okay. So you when you were in school,

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Speaker 1: were you a good student, bad student? Were you popular

362
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Speaker 1: and not popular? I was not popular and I was

363
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Speaker 1: a mediocre student. I excelled in art and music and

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Speaker 1: English class. All the humanities were easy for me. Um,

365
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Speaker 1: but still I only got ces, you know. I graduated

366
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Speaker 1: with the two point five or six or something like that.

367
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Speaker 1: Nothing to write home about. I was interested in music. Okay,

368
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Speaker 1: So you graduated from high school. Did you ever get

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Speaker 1: education beyond that point? You say, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: be a musician. I went to out of high school.

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Speaker 1: I went to Art College in Seattle, and then after that,

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Speaker 1: I um went into bands. So you know, it didn't

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Speaker 1: take long for me to go from school to being

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Speaker 1: in a band for a living. How long did you

375
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Speaker 1: go to school for I went to Art College for

376
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Speaker 1: two years after high school. Okay, And when you leave

377
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Speaker 1: art school and starting bands, where are you're living? Well,

378
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Speaker 1: I was still living with my parents, mooching off my parents,

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Speaker 1: you know. Uh. But then when I met Michael Fisher,

380
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Speaker 1: which was right then after art school, I went away

381
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Speaker 1: to Canada and the rest is just heart history. Well

382
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Speaker 1: a little bit slower. How did you meet him? And

383
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Speaker 1: how did you end up in Vancouver? Oh? Okay? Um.

384
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Speaker 1: The band I was at the time was called it

385
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: was with Roger Fisher and Steve fossen Um. Well, yeah,

386
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Speaker 1: it was called hocus Pocus and we were we got

387
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Speaker 1: a gig at this club in Bellingham, Washington called the

388
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Speaker 1: Iron Bull, where we were the house band. We were

389
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Speaker 1: playing there for two weeks I think. And Michael Fisher,

390
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Speaker 1: the brother of Roger Fisher who was in my band,

391
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Speaker 1: was a draft evader and he was living up in Vancouver,

392
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Speaker 1: b C. He snucked down over the border to Bellingham

393
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Speaker 1: to see his brother's band, and he spotted this chick

394
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Speaker 1: singer who was sitting cross legged on the dance floor

395
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Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette, and she spotted him and their eyes

396
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Speaker 1: just went lock. And uh, that's how it started. And

397
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: and I couldn't not be with him, and he just

398
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: kept coming down to see me, and finally we got

399
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: together as a couple and I left the band went

400
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: up to Vancouver. That lasted about six months before the

401
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: band chased me up there and we formed the band

402
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: up in Vancouver. So Michael and I probably had about

403
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: six months as a couple in romance up in Vancouver

404
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: before the band came and joined. For somebody who was

405
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: so driven in music, it seemed like you abandoned it

406
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: for six months. What was going through your head? I

407
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: love is pretty powerful. I mean when it's when it's

408
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: like that, you know, and it's I couldn't see anything else.

409
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: And that's really saying something because I, like you say,

410
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: I always have been pretty driven about making the band,

411
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: keeping it together, keep feeding it, being in it, you know.

412
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: Um yeah, so that that love just kind of washed

413
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: everything else away for six months. Now, it was a

414
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: different era. But did you want to get married? No,

415
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think about getting married then. We were just Yeah,

416
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: it was a hugely different era. It was the era

417
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: of Joni Mitchell saying, we don't need no piece of

418
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: paper from the city hall keeping us tied and true,

419
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that Michael and I really

420
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: bought into that. Okay, so this was you know. Also,

421
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, today, everybody's got cable TV, everybody's got the Internet.

422
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: There really is no flyover country. But at that point

423
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: in the early seventies, how different was Vancouver from Washington. Oh,

424
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: it was hugely different. Vancouver was a really international, because

425
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: cosmopolitan city, small but very sophisticated. And coming into Vancouver,

426
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: I remember in the springtime during the easter being they

427
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: used to have in Stanley Park, it was just magic.

428
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: Seattle seemed like a real kind of a cowboy town

429
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: next to Vancouver. I remember Vancouver was very um, full

430
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: of artists and um it didn't have that that American

431
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: nationalism that was very bothersome at the time. And so

432
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: the band follows you up with what intention to put

433
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: the band back together? I think that they realized that

434
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: we had something as long as I was in it,

435
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: they we had something special. And Michael Fisher was a

436
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: really smart, kind of um entrepreneurial type guy. I mean,

437
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: he got the whole concept of how to manage a band,

438
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: what needed to happen. He and his brother would get

439
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: out there in the sun with their shirts off and

440
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: build the speaker cabinets and um, there's very hands on.

441
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: And we all lived together in this little one room

442
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: house for a short time and really built the band

443
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: up from nothing in kind of a um communal tribal away.

444
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: And what was the gig situation there? Oh, it was

445
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: just at that time Vancouver had two booking agencies, Bruce

446
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: Allen and Access, which was the more into indie type one,

447
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: and we couldn't get any gigs. You know, nobody knew us.

448
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: We were just some band until we finally decided to

449
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: pull a demo together and we took it to Bruce Allen,

450
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: who was the big booking agent there in town, and

451
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: he passed on heart. So we went to the other indeed,

452
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: and they said okay, so we went with them. He

453
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: got us our first gig at this place called the

454
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: Cave in downtown Vancouver, which was made to look like

455
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: it had stalactites and stalagmites inside and it was all

456
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: dark and it looked like a real cave. You know.

457
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: That was where our first gig was. And then how

458
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: often did you work thereafter? We probably worked there, um, god,

459
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: a couple of different stints, maybe a weekend at a time,

460
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: and then we started getting gigs, playing high school dances

461
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: and um and different bars around Vancouver and New Westminster

462
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: and that area. So we just started stepping it up.

463
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: Things started coming to us and with these originals or covers. Oh,

464
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: they were all covers until we started trying to slip

465
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: these songs like Crazy on You and these new originals

466
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: like Crazy on You and Magic Man and stuff into

467
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: the set, and the bar audience would they'd wait through

468
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: this new Crazy on You song until we could get

469
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: back to the Deep Purple and the rolling Stones and

470
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: the led Zeppa Stop. I just remember them just politely

471
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: waiting through us banging through Crazy and until it was over,

472
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: and then it's like, okay, now let the fund resume. Okay,

473
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: So when did you start writing songs? And how did

474
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: you write Crazy on You? And Magic Man started writing

475
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: Crazy on You and Magic Man uh for the Dreamboat

476
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: Any album, which was up in Vancouver. All the songs

477
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: written in Vancouver about seventy three, and yeah, just started

478
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: We were writing and playing and traveling all at the

479
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: same time. So we we'd write a song on the

480
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: bus during the day and try to fit it in

481
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: at night. Sometimes I would work sometimes it wouldn't and

482
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: literally hot on You develop um. Nancy and Roger and

483
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: Michael and I were living in a house in Point Roberts, Washington,

484
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: and let's see, and Nancy was sick with the flu.

485
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: And I had come up with these words, all the

486
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: words of crazy on You, and so I I was

487
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: really excited about him. So I went into her sick

488
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: bed and I went, God, you gotta check these out

489
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: for Nancy. You know, she had a high fever and everything,

490
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: and I made her sit up and listen to these words.

491
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: And then she got excited too. And we said, well,

492
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: what shall we do for the guitar part? It should

493
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: be an acoustic song. And so then we said, well,

494
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: what would Justin Hayward do on the acoustic And that's

495
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: that's how we arrived at the acoustic part for Crazy

496
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: on You? And Uh, Magic Man was I guess, uh

497
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: like a leaving home song. When I moved up to

498
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: Vancouver and my mother was just really against me moving

499
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: not only out of the country, but moving in with

500
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: a man. And she didn't know if I was just

501
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: going to end up barefoot and pregnant or you know.

502
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: That was before Roe V. Wade and mothers were extremely um,

503
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: a lot more Victorian with their daughters. Then there was

504
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: no attitude like all, honey, just go ahead, just you know,

505
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 1: keep your dignity. That they were like, no, you don't.

506
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: You don't go there with him. You just don't do that.

507
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: So it was a whole different era. So so Magic

508
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: Man was about this thing that went between my mother

509
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: and I when I was gonna move in with Michael. Okay,

510
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: were those songs just spontaneous or you writing them specifically

511
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: for an album? They were spontaneous. All the songs on

512
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: Dreboat Any were spontaneous. Um, there wasn't really an idea

513
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: to make an album. Uh. We were playing most of

514
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: the song the songs that would translate to a live situation.

515
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: We were playing in clubs and Mike Flicker came and

516
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: heard us play these songs. I thought that he liked

517
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: the way I saying he liked the way at that point,

518
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: the way Nancy played. She was sitting in with us

519
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: sometimes she'd come up from college in Forest Grove, and

520
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: he liked that combo. And so that's when the idea

521
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: was hatched for us to make an album. But it

522
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: wasn't until you know, pretty late the songs were already

523
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: in existence. Did you already have a desire? I mean,

524
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: were you somebody was a teenager say man, I'm gonna

525
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: make it. I'm gonna be famous. Oh yeah, yeah. And

526
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: back then in my young twenties mind, it was like,

527
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: you know what I want is I want the glory.

528
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: I didn't think about money. I thought about I wanted

529
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: to be to get up there and feel the power.

530
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: And did reality live up to the dream at some moments?

531
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: I think it did. Um, I think it would depend

532
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: on which era you're talking about and which kind of

533
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: drugs were involved in or not involved, you know, because

534
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: you know some of those eras that were big party

535
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: eras and wild, crazy rock star eras, the ego might

536
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: be a little bit more inflated than other times, so

537
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: the glory might be more powerful than other times. But yeah,

538
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: I think I felt all different kinds of being rapturous

539
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 1: at being in it, or just going like boy, this sucks,

540
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, all different levels of all that. And you

541
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: mentioned the drugs. Was that something you got into more

542
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: as part of the rock star a lifestyle where you

543
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: were an experiment or at an earlier age I was

544
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: an experimenter with LSD before I went into bands, um seriously.

545
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: And but then in the rock star life, as the

546
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: years rolled on, the drugs changed and they did different

547
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: things to your perception of course, like uh, you know,

548
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: cocaine is no ls it's it's a whole different numb world,

549
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: you know. Um. But I was mostly just doing it

550
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: out of because back then the glorious thing was to

551
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: be the fabulous disaster, right. Everyone wanted to be Keith

552
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: Richards or some kind of version of you know, Anita

553
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Palenberg or something and so u. But the trick was

554
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: to stay alive and not lose it and keep your

555
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: keep your your clothes on, your shreds around you of

556
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: intelligence so you can keep on doing this thing and

557
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: make it be good, you know. So how did you

558
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: take LSD the first time? And how old were you? Mm? Hmm.

559
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: I was seventeen. I had a friend who was going

560
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: to University of Washington and she was living in the dorm.

561
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: And uh, I was in art school at the time,

562
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: so I must I must have been eighteen. So I

563
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: was in art school on Capitol Hill in Seattle, and

564
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: she was at the Youth dub and so I just

565
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: went over there from school one time to her dorm room,

566
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: and uh, she had this acid and we only had

567
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: one album to listen to, and it was Bookends by

568
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: Simon and Garfunkel, and so we dropped acid and stayed

569
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: in her room for twenty four hours just looping this record.

570
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: And at some point I think we may have snucked

571
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: down the hall to buy some hostess pies out of

572
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: the vending machine and get some water. But but other

573
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: than that, it was just that was my first asset

574
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: trip in that album supported the whole thing, no problem.

575
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: It was really really amazing. I'll never forget it. Can

576
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: you listen to that album? Yeah? Yeah I can. So

577
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: what were the what were the great insights of your

578
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: first trip? The visual ones were, We're subtle, but I

579
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: won't forget them. And it was just seeing the complementary

580
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: neon colors lining every um sharp edge. If you would

581
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: look up at a at the window sill or something,

582
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: there'd be this Neon green and Neon purple just lining

583
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: the window sill. I remember that. The other um more

584
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: important things I took from it were just the way

585
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: music was. It was so much more than just auditory.

586
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: It was just there was this soul inside the way

587
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: each song was written lyrically, and just the the character

588
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: of each instrument and the colors that are all created. Um,

589
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: you could almost taste it. It's just all the senses

590
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: just bled together. I think, like save the life of

591
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: my child, you know, just imagine that, Yes, with all

592
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: the sounds in the background, the other thing on that wreck,

593
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: the other thing on the record which I quote all

594
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: my friends, I'm not quite there. How terribly strange to

595
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: be seven day oh god, yeah, yeah, and the voices

596
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: of old people. Oh yeah. But the other thing is

597
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: is that America that encapsulated something that was something you

598
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: did in the sixties and seventies. You've got a new

599
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: car and you look, people don't even do that anymore.

600
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: You know, they'll fly somewhere over that whole experience of anonymity,

601
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: discovering the country, the world yep, like being on a

602
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: bus or a train or something. Right, So you had

603
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: a good experience. How often did you do do LSD

604
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: after that? Well? After that, I did it every chance

605
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: I could. Um, probably had probably another I don't know,

606
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,479
Speaker 1: a dozen trips or something with Nancy and with Sue

607
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: and us, with my sister Lynn and her commune every

608
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: chance I could. I think I even had a couple

609
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: by myself. Um, But I was never a person who

610
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: wanted to go out and climb trees or stuff like that.

611
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be inside in a controlled situation

612
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: with the music I wanted to listen to. It was

613
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: about It was all about music for me. Um, with

614
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: the music I wanted to listen to. Ready to go,

615
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: So I the all the loose ends tied up. Nobody's

616
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: gonna come over, no one's gonna call, you know, so

617
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: you don't have to deal with the outside world. Just

618
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: I just wanted to dive into music as far as

619
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: I could. Did you ever have a bad trip once? Yeah,

620
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: And it was because I didn't get the loose ends

621
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 1: tied up. And I was over with Nancy at Sue

622
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: and us his house. Sue's ers were gone, um somewhere

623
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: on vacation. So we had the house and we took

624
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: this opportunity, and I neglected to tell my parents that

625
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: Nancy and I were going to spend the night over there.

626
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: We just went, you know, like sometimes young people will

627
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: just do that. And so we dropped. The acid was

628
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: orange Sunshine, and I was supposed to be at band practice.

629
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: Nancy was supposed to be home. So so first the

630
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: guys at ben practice started calling the house and saying,

631
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: where's Anne. She didn't show up, We can't find her.

632
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: Were worried about her. And then so my mom would say, oh,

633
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, she's not here. And then pretty soon

634
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: Nancy didn't come home. So my mom is going, where's Nancy,

635
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: where's Ann? Right? And so she figured out we were

636
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: probably at best friend Seu's house. So she started calling

637
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: up there, and the phone kept ringing, and we kept

638
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: pretending we didn't hear it, and finally my mom just

639
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: got in the car and came over and banged on

640
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: the door and Nancy's who hit upstairs in the bedroom.

641
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: And because we're in the middle of this, we're in

642
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: another universe, you know, we can't deal with a angry

643
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: mother at that time. But I went downstairs, I answered

644
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: the door. She pulled me out into her car and

645
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: confronted me. Are you high? You know, look at you

646
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 1: You're high, right, And I'm like, oh, no, I'm not hot,

647
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, like and uh, she let me have it,

648
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, across the face once and and then she

649
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 1: kind of shoved me out of the car and said, okay,

650
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: go back to it. You can go to hell. Tell

651
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: Nancy to go there too, And then she backed out,

652
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: knocked over all the trash cans in the street and

653
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: took off and I went back in the house. And

654
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: the whole rest of the trip, Nancy and Sue and

655
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: I were just in hell. It was like we could

656
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: not come back from that. You know, that was a

657
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: bad trip. So what music did you like to listen to?

658
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: At that point? We were listening to Moody Blues, uh,

659
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: in Search of a Lost Card, the White Album, Sergeant Pepper,

660
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: and possibly maybe the first Elton John album. And that's

661
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what it was. You know, I can't

662
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: remember if there was anything else, but you know, you

663
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: could listen to the White Album on acids and it's

664
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: like an hour plus long, and that's a that's a

665
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: universe of time, and then you might listen to it again,

666
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, And is in Search of the Lost Cords?

667
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: Your favorite Boody Blues album at this time? I think

668
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: maybe Days of Future Past is again, but those two

669
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: I think are my favorite. They've just really hit on

670
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: something right then, you know, Timothy Leary and all the

671
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: other things, but I went back to that at this point.

672
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: It's the one I listened to most. So you're in Vancouver,

673
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: what was your relationship with Nancy? With Nancy and how

674
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: did she fit into your bands before you moved to Vancouver. Um,

675
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: she wasn't in the bands I was in before I

676
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: moved to Vancouver. She was still in high school. And

677
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: then after that she went to university in Oregon, and

678
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: she was serious about spending some time in college and

679
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't. So I was just already out in this

680
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: band life. And we were driving to Montana, um Idaho,

681
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: up into Saskatchewan and just ranging out in these gigs

682
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: with the band I was in, and she was not involved. Finally,

683
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: because she and I had been so tight growing up

684
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: and learning how to play guitars together and singing together. UM,

685
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: I really wanted to to enrich Heart or Hocus Focus.

686
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: I mean the band I was in with more ability

687
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: to play acoustic guitar, more ability for backup harmoniars, because

688
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: we had settled into Hocus Focus, had settled into this

689
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: sort of bar band mentality was just like maybe two

690
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: part harmonies tops. Um, every song was kind of on

691
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: a Johnny be good level, you know, like nothing really

692
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: sophisticated was coming out of that band. Um Steve Foston

693
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: singing Suffragette City and stuff like that. And it was okay,

694
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: but it wasn't gonna go anywhere, you know, it was

695
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: just gonna end up being in bars forever. So I

696
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: started asking Nancy to come up and visit us in

697
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: Vancouver and sit in and provide her acoustic and provide

698
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: some more harmony singing, which she did. She was really shy.

699
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: She she didn't really enjoy it, you know, but it

700
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: sure made the band sound better on that level. And

701
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: then um, one thing led to another person. We started

702
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: writing those songs. She and Roger Fisher got together and

703
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: the two Wilson sisters and two Fisher brothers became a

704
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: family living group. And she left college and moved up

705
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: and that's when um Mike Flicker had discovered us playing

706
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: in a club called Starwin Marvin's and said, well, come

707
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: on down and let's demo you guys. So we went

708
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: in first without Nancy any past. Then we went in

709
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: again a year later with Nancy, and he liked the

710
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: two sisters thing, you know, and so that was kind

711
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 1: of a an extra added um, smallsey thing that worked

712
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: for him, and so mushroom scientists on the basis of it,

713
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: be me, Nancy and Roger, and we may dream bout Annie. Okay,

714
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: I have two sisters, and older sister and a younger sister.

715
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: They can be lovey dovey. They can be at each

716
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: other's throats, calling me bitching about the other one. What's

717
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: it like being in a band with your sister, Boy,

718
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: there's no one way that it's like. Um. Sometimes it's

719
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: just great because you come from a common stamp, you know,

720
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: and you know, uh, you've got like a language together

721
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: and all that where you can finish each each other's sentences.

722
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 1: But also along with that you have this incredibly complex

723
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: um set up of buttons you can push to upset

724
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: each other or or you know, just a little tiny,

725
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: little throwaway comments that just hurt like hell or shut

726
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: you down, or you can do the same thing for them.

727
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: So it's equally as good as it is bad. It's tricky.

728
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: The Nancy and I managed to make it be mostly

729
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: good for years as long as it was just she

730
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: and I, but when other people came into our lives,

731
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: it got more and more and more tricky because we

732
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: started to grow up and have our you know, come

733
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: into our own two separate Like people used to treat

734
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: us like we were joined at the hip, and I

735
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: guess we kind of were. But the minute we separated, Um,

736
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: that's when things got good and things got super hard.

737
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: And it's the status of it today. Well, it's she's

738
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: doing She just released an album, a solo album you

739
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: probably know, and um, we've both been doing our solo things.

740
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: But in two thousand nineteen, before the lockdown, we did

741
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: Heart Tour that was the most satisfying and successful commercial

742
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: to her hearts done in a long time. UM. So

743
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: we can do that whenever we want, and our relationship

744
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: will take it. Like things that have happened in the

745
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: past are we've come to the point where we've let

746
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: the air out of them and when we want to

747
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: get together and make music, we can do it, you know,

748
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: without it being all negative and personal and stuff. I mean,

749
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: we're she's a good, great musician. I really like her.

750
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: She's an original, she can do stuff, um, and she

751
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: gets me do. We just have to really watch out

752
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: for the sibling pitfalls, you know. And I know you

753
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: know what I mean because you were talking about your sisters,

754
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: you know. So let's just say you're not on the road,

755
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: you're not preparing or doing a hard tour. How much

756
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: contact do you have if any? Yeah, we have some,

757
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: but not that much. It's mostly birthdays and and you know,

758
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: something happens in the family or just something that made

759
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: us think of the other. One will go, hey, I

760
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: saw this, and I thought of you. You know, after

761
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: forty five years of living in each other's pockets, it's

762
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: kind of refreshing to be an adult, a completely separate adult. Um.

763
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: And it really has helped me with my writing and

764
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: my own agenda of just doing things my way, you know,

765
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: which is what I was doing before she joined the band.

766
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you go into the studio with Mike Flicker.

767
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: How long does it take to cut dream Body any?

768
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: And how different are the songs from how you were

769
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: playing them live? And were you happy? Um? Let's see

770
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,959
Speaker 1: how long did it take to make the record? Trying

771
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: to remember, I think it wasn't as long as we

772
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: usually take now. It's probably a month or a month

773
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: and a half tops, um, because we've been out there

774
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: playing the songs live, so the songs were already road tested.

775
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: Some of them sounded much better on the record than

776
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: they did live, because, for instance, the song Crazy on You,

777
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: we did have a drummer that we liked enough to

778
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: use in the studio, So on stund Crazy on You,

779
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: it's the drum part is a series of edits that

780
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: Mike Flicker did very cleverly, and you can't even tell

781
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: that it's not being played all the way through. But

782
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: I remember how complicated that one track was. The drummer

783
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: we were using live just wasn't up to it. So

784
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: we got this guy cat h Hendrix in to play,

785
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: and he was like a jazz player almost, and he

786
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: played on Crazy Um, So it sounded better on record

787
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: than live. Same with magic Man Boy. You should have

788
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: heard the demo I came in with for Magic Man.

789
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: It was the groove that we were playing live was

790
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: more like like the old Indian thing of do do

791
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: Do Do do you Know? And then in the studio

792
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: that evolved to do to do do you Know? Um?

793
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: And songs like how Deep It Goes and Hear Song

794
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: and all that were my romantic love songs you know

795
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: that I wrote just on my acoustics. So from that

796
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: little demo, the songs just opened up into like full

797
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: band productions. So they really did come alive a lot

798
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: on that record. And there was a third part to

799
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: your question, was I happy yet when it was all done?

800
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: Were you satisfied or you felt like you missed it

801
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: a little bit or it didn't sound like it was

802
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: in your head? Now? I was thrilled. I was just

803
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: like over the moon. And the experience in particular of

804
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: singing the lead vocal on Crazy and You is something

805
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: I'll never forget because this first time I'd ever opened

806
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: up and sung in a studio with a big mike

807
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: and everything and Mike Flicker. They're producing me and coaching

808
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: me and drawing me out, you know, and I just

809
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: I just remembered what that felt like too, to sort

810
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: of arrive at that, you know, it was like a revelation. Well,

811
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: you said earlier that you've learned that you could sing

812
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: in seventy four. Was that when you were cutting the

813
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: record or was it before but slightly before it was live?

814
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: When I started, we used to do this led Zeppelin

815
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: medley in bars that was, you know, twenty five minutes

816
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: long and just one song into the next. That's when

817
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: I realized that rock was really a blast. To sing

818
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: sing loud and high, and I could sing Aretha, and

819
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: I could sing um Ian Gillen from Deep Purple and

820
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And what was wild about

821
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: that too is that it's back then it was a

822
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: woman singing it and no one else was doing that.

823
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: So the audiences were like, yeah, that was something that

824
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: really caught their imagination. Okay, how long after you cut

825
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: the album does it come out? And when do you

826
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: realize something starting to happen in terms of airplay and sales.

827
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: Mustroom Records was a small, little indie label in Vancouver,

828
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: and they it was all this little in house staff,

829
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 1: very small operation, and we got through with the record.

830
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:31,399
Speaker 1: It was released on Valentine's Day, I think, and by

831
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: summer we were out on tour supporting it and riding

832
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: around in the back of Nancy and I riding around

833
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: in the back of a car being driven by Shelley Siegel,

834
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: who was the um the publicist at Mustroom, and we

835
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: did this coal miners daughter thing with him where he

836
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: drove us to the record stations, I mean the radio stations,

837
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: and we'd go in and sit down and go HI,

838
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: where the girls from Heart and and and then the

839
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: the jock would play our song and we talk a

840
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: little bit, and then we'd leave and Shelley Wood slept

841
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: down like a grammar blow and get him a hooker later.

842
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: It was that old seventies kind of payola deal. So

843
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: we did that within a couple of months with the

844
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: record being done, and that kind of got the radio

845
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: play going. And and then once it was being played,

846
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: then people started calling in and different part of the country.

847
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: Parts of the country opened up at different rates. It

848
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: was interesting. You'd think it would be the glamorous part

849
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: of the country's like New York and l A, but

850
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: they were the last to like Heart. The places that

851
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: came to us first were St. Louis and Atlanta and

852
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: Detroit and Cleveland, you know, places like that, Chicago, the

853
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: ones that were where people are more down that they

854
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: liked their rock, you know. And when was the first

855
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: time you heard it on the radio? Oh? Um, the

856
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 1: first song I heard in the radio was Magic Man

857
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: and it was I was It was probably uh a

858
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: month after we got done recording, and I was coming

859
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: back from the grocery store with my dog in the

860
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: back of the car, and I had the radio on

861
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: and here comes well first it's like Captain into Neil,

862
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: you know, love will keep us together. And then the

863
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: next song is magic Man, and I had to pull

864
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: over and freak and freak out, you know, because it

865
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: was so cool. It's so surreal. The first time you

866
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: hear that it's it breaks this kind of little hyman

867
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: and your brain of yourself image. It breaks it all down.

868
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: So you're just like, whoa, here's me and that's me.

869
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: You know, you have to learn how to accept that

870
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: it's one. I don't know if that makes any sense,

871
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: but no, absolutely, But how is yourself image? How was

872
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: it before? Could you embrace the success? Did you feel

873
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: you weren't worthy? You're getting the attention? So what was

874
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: it like being inside you? I always thought that I

875
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: was worthy. I never felt that I was the ship

876
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: like because I knew I was learning. I was still

877
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: worshiping at the knees of my idols like Plant and

878
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: Ian Gillen and Elton John and the Rod Stewart, the

879
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: various people that I liked, the singers at that time.

880
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: And I guess that, you know, all I could here

881
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: was someday I'll be able to sing that great. You know,

882
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have any sense of trying to sing like

883
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: a woman or sing like a man. I just wanted

884
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: to sing like a soul, you know. So summer the

885
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: being really explodes. You know. I was traveling in the

886
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: West and you know, not the metropolis, and you heard

887
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: the records everywhere before I came ultimately to l A.

888
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: So could you feel that? And the album was as

889
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: successful as any other album that summer and you're on

890
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: this little independent label out of Vancouver, did you realize

891
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: it was going well? It didn't really go as quick

892
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: as we wanted it too, because we weren't able to

893
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: come down to the States to turi it because Michael

894
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: Fisher was wanted for a draft evasion. Um. It was

895
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: that summer. I think that he realized that he had

896
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: to go get that straightened out so that he could

897
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: come down with us as the band's manager to the

898
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: States and we could open up down here, you know. Um,

899
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: So we didn't really get a feeling for what it

900
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: was like to drive around to America and here our record.

901
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: We only knew Canada at that point. But then once

902
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: we were okay to come down here, it seemed like

903
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: it was everywhere. Especially crazy On You was the first

904
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: single I think, and then Magic Man came after that

905
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: and we couldn't get it played that. This is funny.

906
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: It took us a while to get Magic Man to

907
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: really hit because it was long, and back then, to

908
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: really hit you had to be played on AM radio

909
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: and the songs couldn't be any longer than say, three

910
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: minutes in fifteen or twenty. And so finally somebody, I

911
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: don't exactly know how this went down, but somebody didn't

912
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: edit that was the right length and they put that

913
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: on AM radio and then all hell broke loose. We

914
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: were an FM band up until then All Hell breaks loose?

915
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: How does it change you in the band in the situation, Well,

916
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: we start getting these really amazing gig offers like cal

917
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: Jam two, and you know, it's just so funny what

918
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: happens when all of a sudden your song is on

919
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: the radio and everyone just thinks that you've taken this

920
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: gigantic leap up into their view as some kind of

921
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: mythological creature. Um. So yeah, we started getting really good

922
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: gig offers to warm up for Jefferson Starship, and I

923
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: guess there was Airplane at first, and then just about

924
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: everybody bgs all the bands that were huge. Then we

925
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: started getting offers to warm up for them and get

926
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: on getting on these big stages, and just it just grew,

927
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: just started to inhale and did you int your on

928
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: your inter your level. I want to say, Okay, I'm

929
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: gonna blow I'm gonna win over the audience who frequently

930
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: doesn't pay attention to the opening act, and I'm gonna

931
01:02:53,640 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: blow the headliner off the ridge. All right. Well I

932
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: never held the headliner any ill will, but yeah, I

933
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: wanted to go out there and just bulow everybody away.

934
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: And especially when you go out there and maybe it's

935
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: still light out and people are filing in. That's hard.

936
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: That's hard. And I think about that now with opening acts,

937
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, like especially when you're playing sheds and it's

938
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: six o'clock at night or seven o'clock at night, still light,

939
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: it's hot and everything, the sun's on the stage. Some

940
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: poor openers out there just sweating away, trying to just

941
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: get them off. So I was trying to be nice

942
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: to them, you know, given whatever they need, because that's

943
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: a that's a hard place to be in. But um, yeah,

944
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: back then it was mostly indoors. We didn't play the

945
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: whole shed live nation shed thing didn't exist then, So

946
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: we got We came up playing inside arenas mostly and

947
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: some outdoor. So now you have this level of success.

948
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: You're somebody from Seattle, which was not a hotbed. They

949
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: had the Kingsman then ultimately the Grunero, but you were

950
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: between that. You in Vancouver was a different country. Suddenly

951
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: you have this international success. You start meeting all your heroes.

952
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: What's that like? Yeah, yeah, well it didn't take long

953
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: to realize that there where the myth stops and the

954
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: person starts, you know, when you start meeting people. And

955
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: but still the thrill was not gone, you know, Meeting

956
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: and John was just so over the top amazing. Um,

957
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: Freddie Mercury, Brian, all those guys, all the different people

958
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: we met. We opened up for Nazareth overseas and I

959
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: was a huge fan of them. Um oh, Grace Slick,

960
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: just all the different people who I looked up to

961
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid. Um, I mean not

962
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: even that little, just the five years before. You know, Uh,

963
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: that was really eye opening, life changing stuff. And it

964
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: changes you because all of a sudden they're looking at you,

965
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: talking to you as if you're an equal and you.

966
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: I rapidly lost the thing of not worthy. Not worthy,

967
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, I felt like, well, maybe these are like dots,

968
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: Maybe there are people that understand how I feel, and

969
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: it it is true. I came to the feeling that

970
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,919
Speaker 1: there's there's definitely a type of alien being that does

971
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: this for a living, and especially if you have the

972
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: drive and the push to take it all the way,

973
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: you've got to be a certain kind of animal. And

974
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: so when you meet those animals, you reckon as each

975
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: other sometimes, you know, other than Elton John who lived

976
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: up to the rep plant I think Robert plant Um,

977
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: I meant Jagger, and he was just as much of

978
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: a princess as I thought he would be. We opened

979
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: up for the Stones at in Boulder, Colorado, and their

980
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: huge tour with the pink stage that raked down, you know,

981
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: the lips and tongue thing, and they just had shuttles

982
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: going from the hotel to the gig, and Michael and

983
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: I were standing down there waiting for a shuttle to

984
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,919
Speaker 1: take us over there, and Jagger comes down to get

985
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: the shuttle and he grabs the first shuttle and doesn't

986
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: want anybody else in the car with him because it'll

987
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: wrinkle his trousers right, and so I went, yeah, okay,

988
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 1: I got it. Um Um. I thought Brian May wasn't

989
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: an incredible intelligent person and a gentleman. Um John Paul Jones,

990
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: same thing. Just there are so many of them, you know.

991
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: I thought Grace Slick was. She was probably one of

992
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: the wildest aliens I've met. So did you like the

993
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 1: grind of the road? I did? Yeah, I was good

994
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: with it. When you're in your mid twenties, even later twenties,

995
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: it's it's no big deal, you know what I mean.

996
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: You recover from from the travel you can. You're just

997
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: much more rough and tumble, you know, and uh, the

998
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: hours and the all the different modes of transportation, like

999
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: especially over in Europe, it's not, uh the tour bust

1000
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: thing is not as developed as it was over here,

1001
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: so you're on trains and and vans and stuff like that,

1002
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, and especially over in Europe back then rock

1003
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 1: was just such a new thing. Rock shows were it

1004
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: wasn't anything like it is now, you know, as you

1005
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: will know. And so you'd go in and you'd play

1006
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: these weird places like I remember we had a gig

1007
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: in Belgium that where it was just this creepy, little old,

1008
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 1: mildewy theater with Nazareth, and they put us in a

1009
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 1: hotel that all the lampshades were torn and there was

1010
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: trash all over the floor and dirty sheets and stuff.

1011
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: And I was it scared the ship out of me

1012
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: because I was just a little girl from Bellevue, you know,

1013
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: where everything was fine and there's a big learning experience

1014
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: and lots of those places. Needles say, in the last

1015
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: five years we had me to awareness in America. But

1016
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: you were one of only a handful of successful female

1017
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: rock stars at the time. In addition, you were the

1018
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: front person. What was that like? Yeah, it was kind

1019
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: of like being being from another planet because no one

1020
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: really knew how to treat you, where to put you.

1021
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 1: If you were a folk singer or a disco diva,

1022
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: they would have known, but being a rock singer, they

1023
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 1: just automatically pegged me as is this wild kind of

1024
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: like a nymphamaniac um uh crazy drunk, just wild thing,

1025
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: you know, And that really wasn't what I was like.

1026
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, there was a real stereotype that was

1027
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,920
Speaker 1: like an instantaneous, made up stereotype that was placed on me,

1028
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: and Nancy too to a lesser degree, because she's She's

1029
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: blond and fair and a little bit more delicate physically

1030
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: and everything. So they just saw me and went, there's

1031
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: a rock bitch, you know, and that I really didn't

1032
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: measure up. I want to messer up to that inside

1033
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: my own self. Well, I'm sure you had some bad

1034
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: experiences as a result of people's perceptions and their aggressiveness. Yeah,

1035
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: but I weathered that. I weathered it because I didn't

1036
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: take it seriously. Um. I just kind of had an

1037
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 1: attitude like, well, they don't know, you know, the band

1038
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: I'm with takes me seriously, and what really matters is

1039
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: what I do when I get up there. I kind

1040
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: of think I had a sense that I was instrumental

1041
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 1: in changing a perception of what women could be and

1042
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: do in music. I was one of the few that

1043
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: we're doing that. Okay, you have the legal situation with Mushroom.

1044
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: You end up on Portrait, which is basically epic part

1045
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: of CBS Records at the time. What was different about that, Well,

1046
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: it was different in that, like all of a sudden

1047
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 1: things got big, you know. It was just you went

1048
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 1: to New York to the Black rock, you know, and

1049
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: and you you hung out at a in a penthouse

1050
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: in a champagne cocktail party with Slim Whitman. You know,

1051
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: it just got automatically huge. And you met Yoko Ono

1052
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 1: and you met Bob Grulin and it got big fast. Um,

1053
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: it's very breathless cool time for sure. Uh. And just

1054
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: they made things happen. Okay, you know you're living in obscurity, right,

1055
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: the first album that blows up, then you have to

1056
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,720
Speaker 1: write more songs. What was the pressure like, Yeah, that

1057
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: was a good one in terms of pressure. I mean

1058
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: it was. It was just like there's kind of a

1059
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: um hypocrisy because people just love your first record and

1060
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: they just go, oh, you're such an artist. You know,

1061
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: we just love your mind, we love your sensibility. Right,

1062
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:02,879
Speaker 1: another one? So then you do and they go, well,

1063
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: why isn't that like the first one? You know? Like

1064
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: that then, And I'm not blaming other people for being

1065
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: um that way, because they're that way with all artists.

1066
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: The thing that blows up between the artists and the

1067
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: salesman is a year old. It will never change. That

1068
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 1: goes back to your question about how the music industry change, Well,

1069
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: not at all. You know, um, but yeah, the second

1070
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 1: record was more us writing songs that were that came

1071
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: out of being on the road and traveling and all

1072
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:53,839
Speaker 1: this big concerts and stuff and are my personal experience.

1073
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: Like the song Little Queen, I think has a certain

1074
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: sort of bitterness about it, like, Okay, you gotta get

1075
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 1: up there, no matter how you feel, you gotta get

1076
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: up there. It's almost like a Judy Garland mentality, you know,

1077
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,640
Speaker 1: put on the nose, get out there and just do it,

1078
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 1: you know. Um. So yeah, the second album had elements

1079
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: of that, almost biting the hand that was feeding us,

1080
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 1: but not quite. Yeah, but you had success with that

1081
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: second record. As long as you sell records, they don't

1082
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: in retrospect, they'll stay off of you. But how much

1083
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: did they interfere with your creative process there? Not at all,

1084
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:37,480
Speaker 1: Not at all. I don't remember being interfered with it all. Um.

1085
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 1: We had the we had a combination in me and

1086
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 1: Nancy writing songs and Roger Fisher writing songs with us,

1087
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: and Mike Flicker producing. That was that was working at

1088
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: the record company company level two. So they didn't really

1089
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: start interfering with us until the eighties. Well, let's wait

1090
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: for the eighties. First, Second, how did how did? How

1091
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 1: did it end? With you and Michael Um? We were

1092
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: living in we bought a house together in Seattle, came

1093
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:18,639
Speaker 1: down from Vancouver, Um and we were working on Baby

1094
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 1: Less Strange recording in Seattle at Case Smith and Uh,

1095
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: it was revealed to me by other people that he

1096
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: was unfaithful. And because I was off writing songs with

1097
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: Nancy and Sue all the time, and and I was

1098
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: or I was in the studio, we drifted apart and

1099
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: he found solace elsewhere. And I wasn't the kind of

1100
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 1: person who could just turn my head and say, well,

1101
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: that's my fault. You know. I walked out. I felt

1102
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: not jealous, but I felt rejected, and so I left.

1103
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: That's how we've split up. But he was your first

1104
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: serious relationship, and you can't get over that so fast.

1105
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 1: See I I didn't think so either, Like I felt

1106
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: that was a serious betrayal. I thought that maybe he,

1107
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: at the very worst, maybe he would tell me. But

1108
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: it got to this point where everyone else in the

1109
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: whole group knew except me, and everyone was trying to

1110
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 1: keep it from me because the golden goose, right, and

1111
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: they don't want to upset me or something make it

1112
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 1: so I killed myself or stop writing songs or whatever.

1113
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: As it turned out, I found out and that's what happened,

1114
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: and I went into a real tail spin for a

1115
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 1: long time about that. I think it shook myself confidence

1116
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: in a way that was real deep. How long did

1117
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: it take you to recover from that? If ever? Well,

1118
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 1: I didn't get into another serious relationship until I was

1119
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: sixty four years old, So it took me thirty plus

1120
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: years to actually trust again. Um, but that's not to

1121
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: say I didn't have a good time in those thirty

1122
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: five years. You know, I dove headlong into being free

1123
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 1: and individual and wild and uh, doing whatever I wanted

1124
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: with whoever I wanted for a long time, but not

1125
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: committing to anyone. So I guess you could say I

1126
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: didn't recover until I was in my sixties. And what

1127
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: changed I met Dean? What was different about him? He's

1128
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent. Um, he's he's like, uh, he's like me.

1129
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: It's almost like we're two versions of the same thing.

1130
01:16:54,960 --> 01:17:01,799
Speaker 1: And he's got this spirituality that it's it's really basic

1131
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 1: and simple and that I can really identify with. We

1132
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 1: both felt like we recognized each other. Um, that's about

1133
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 1: all I can say is like, it's just like this

1134
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,680
Speaker 1: familiarity of someone that you just know that you know

1135
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: them and that well, this is it, this is what

1136
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: it's going to be. It's so comfortable. It's it's like,

1137
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: uh something that where you know you're supposed to be.

1138
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 1: But he's he's a lot, I mean, Deans a lot.

1139
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: He's a beautiful, highly intelligent person, but he's complicated and

1140
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: sensitive and brainy and scientific, you know, a lot of

1141
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: a lot. They're a lot there. So how do you

1142
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 1: cope between the two of you? You see, you have arguments,

1143
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 1: you see a therapist. How do you how do you

1144
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 1: all relationships have these issues? How do you guys cope? Well,

1145
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: he's he's a therapist. I see a therapist, you know,

1146
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: I mean our problems we mostly talk out. Um, sometimes

1147
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 1: we can't because we're both so complicated and we'll just

1148
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 1: go round and round until the elephant in the room

1149
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: is so big that we have to you know. Um.

1150
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,719
Speaker 1: And when we got married, we just kind of walked

1151
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: off together, you know, we we didn't. We got together

1152
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: in November and we were married by April. Um. That

1153
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: was seven years ago, and we've been together every day

1154
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: and every night since, except for the four Daisy spent

1155
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: in the slammer over that White River deal that happened. Um,

1156
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: but it's pretty intense how much total immersion we have

1157
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: together now in the interim in that thirty five years.

1158
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: You have children, correct, Yes, I do. I do. So

1159
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: how did that? How did that come to be? And

1160
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:04,879
Speaker 1: what was that like? Well, I adopted both my children.

1161
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: They I was looking to adopt, um because I was

1162
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 1: ready to have children. I just didn't feel that I

1163
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: wanted to wait and wait and wait and wait for

1164
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 1: Mr Wright, you know, because I was in my thirties

1165
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: at that point. Um, no, actually early forties. So I

1166
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: went to an adoption agency and another one and another one,

1167
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: and they weren't really having it because here I am,

1168
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 1: this single woman in rock and roll, right, and they

1169
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: weren't looking to place babies. They were looking to place

1170
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 1: babies with two parents, upwardly mobile, stable families. So then

1171
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:53,679
Speaker 1: it just happened that a young girl that I knew

1172
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: peripherally came to me and said that she was pregnant,

1173
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 1: she couldn't keep her child, would I consider adopting it?

1174
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 1: So I had That happened twice, and both my children

1175
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: came to me before they were born, and I supported

1176
01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: the mothers. They're both like seventeen year old girls who

1177
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: had just gotten out of their depth, you know, and

1178
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to be mothers yet, and so I supported them,

1179
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: took them to their doctor's appointments, and then when the

1180
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 1: time came for the births, I was there and you know,

1181
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 1: had two babies seven years apart. And what was it

1182
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: like being a single mother in addition working and working

1183
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: on the road frequently. Yeah, Well, luckily, you know, I

1184
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: took the babies on the road with me that when

1185
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: they're little, football is like that, they're fine on the road. Um.

1186
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: I was able to get to our buses where you

1187
01:20:55,320 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 1: could child proof them, you know. And and uh, I

1188
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 1: think my daughter was with me on the road until

1189
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: she's about thirteen when she finally said, you know, Mom,

1190
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: I've seen every aquarium and every minuteure golf place in

1191
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: this country and I'm sick of it. I want to

1192
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: be with my friends. And the same with my son.

1193
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:20,719
Speaker 1: You know, they had great upbringing. They went to Europe

1194
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: and Japan and Australia and all over the country that

1195
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 1: they had a great childhood and what are they up

1196
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 1: to today. My daughter is thirty and she has got

1197
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 1: six kids. She married a man who had twins, then

1198
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: she had four of her own. And my son is

1199
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 1: twenty three and he's uh a corrections officer at the

1200
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: Monroe State Prison in Washington State. And are they independent

1201
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 1: of you or do you support them financially? They're independent,

1202
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: they're independent of me. Okay, let's go back. Ye, so

1203
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:04,720
Speaker 1: you're on Epic, you have a number of hits. How

1204
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: does it end with Epic? M hmm, let's see. Um.

1205
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: I think it ended with Epic when we did the

1206
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 1: private audition album, or it might have been Passion Works.

1207
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 1: That was our first record that did not sell, the

1208
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: first one that was a commercial failure, right, and uh,

1209
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: suddenly we took this commercially, this big nose dive and

1210
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 1: heart couldn't really get arrested on the radio, which is

1211
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, which is how you did

1212
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 1: things back then. There was no MTV yet or anything.

1213
01:22:52,520 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: It's just starting up. And so eventually at it just

1214
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: kind of went well, no, we're we're done here, you know.

1215
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: And right at that same moment, Don Grierson at Capitol

1216
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 1: came to us and said, well, you know, I think

1217
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: that you guys could really be huge if you allow

1218
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: me to introduce songwriters to you and if you take

1219
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 1: advantage of this MTV thing and if you signed a capital.

1220
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: So we we did that. You know, we were did

1221
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: kind of a faustian bargain with that. I think. I

1222
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 1: think at that point I wasn't ready to just go

1223
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: back to obscurity. I wanted to keep it going, uh

1224
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,799
Speaker 1: And I liked getting all dressed up. I liked up singing,

1225
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: and so I didn't have any qualms about singing other

1226
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: people's material. It was just like going back to the

1227
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: beginning for me um at first. So we signed a

1228
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:03,560
Speaker 1: Capital and made this record with ron Nevison producing Dan Sacelito,

1229
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: and it went number one. And of course they there

1230
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: were of the twelve or fourteen so songs that are

1231
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: on there, four of them or five of them were

1232
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 1: our compositions. The rest were from Diane Warren and Um

1233
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: Peter both and Bernie Taupin and a few other people

1234
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:36,759
Speaker 1: who Kelly Steinberg, and so we had this huge success.

1235
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 1: So we made three albums right in the Rover Capital

1236
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 1: that that happened with, and we made all these big,

1237
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 1: expensive MTV videos and and and wore the big hair

1238
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:54,639
Speaker 1: and all the whole kabuki set up, and that became

1239
01:24:55,760 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 1: a real trap, became a real uncomfortable deal, especially when

1240
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 1: you try to take that MTV thing with all the

1241
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:08,480
Speaker 1: stylists and take it out in the hot summer outside

1242
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: shed setting where it's a hundred degrees and you're wearing

1243
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 1: this corset and this big, huge mane of hair and

1244
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 1: everything is just really hard um to maintain that pose.

1245
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 1: And so at the end of the eighties, after we

1246
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 1: did Heart Bad Animals and Brigade, I think we were

1247
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: done with that. We just were we were exhausted, and

1248
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: we went home to Seattle and just took everything off

1249
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 1: and just went, well, I don't know what's going to

1250
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: happen now, but I'm not doing that anymore. You know,

1251
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 1: we've gone about as first week ago with that one,

1252
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 1: and then there was grunge and we kind of landed

1253
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 1: in the middle of that. So all your hits previously

1254
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 1: been written by the band, primarily you and your sister.

1255
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 1: What's it like singing somebody else's songs and having all

1256
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: the recognition for that. Yeah, it's that's a real um

1257
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: double edged sword, because if the if, if the song

1258
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 1: is a great song that somebody else has written, it's

1259
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 1: a pleasure, like the song Alone or These Dreams or

1260
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 1: one of the really well written ones that has substance,

1261
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's a pleasure and a joy. But some

1262
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 1: of those other songs that were just written for the

1263
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 1: radio for the eighties radio, like nothing at All or

1264
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: who Will You Run To? Or Never, those types of

1265
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 1: things boring, boring, boring, and uh, for me, it was

1266
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: just like some kind of I don't know, I'm I'm

1267
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: trying not to get too colorful here, but some kind

1268
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 1: of master masturbatory, um, meaningless exercise. Then I got real

1269
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: tired of and it wore on my voice because they

1270
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: weren't songs that I'd written for myself. But I knew

1271
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: how to pitch, you know. Um. So I think the

1272
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: mood changed in the eighties for us, and it was

1273
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 1: it was hard. It wasn't exciting. It was hard and

1274
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: commercial and corporate. How was your relationship with a label

1275
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:45,759
Speaker 1: with Capital? It was good. I mean, we spent time

1276
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 1: over there at the Capitol Building in l A. And

1277
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: I went a couple of the Wednesday morning singles meetings,

1278
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: and you know, played that game a little bit, uh

1279
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: back then, because you get into the situation where they

1280
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:07,840
Speaker 1: sort of have you over a barrel, like if if

1281
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: you don't cooperate, then they won't cooperate. If if you

1282
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: don't do what's necessary, then they could just let the

1283
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 1: whole project sit and fail. Um. So pretty soon you

1284
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 1: wake up and find yourself just in this situation of powerlessness,

1285
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 1: and the realization came to me that, like, God, what

1286
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: am I spending my life on this for? You know,

1287
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:40,679
Speaker 1: this isn't what I got into this for. I'm only

1288
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 1: coming back to that now, you know. Okay. Needless to say,

1289
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: MTV is all about image, and women are very concerned

1290
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:57,760
Speaker 1: about their image. How did you feel about being in

1291
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:03,679
Speaker 1: videos in the focus, etcetera. Yeah, that that was really

1292
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 1: really hard because it was big, big money to make

1293
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:14,560
Speaker 1: these big productions that were like mini movies with stylists

1294
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: and catering and um all these cameras and big name

1295
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: producers and directors and uh, it was a whole lot

1296
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: of work. And they the videos are what sold the

1297
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 1: records in those days, so it worked. Needless to say,

1298
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:39,639
Speaker 1: there were issues in the eighties with your body and weight.

1299
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: What was that experience for you. Oh, it was really

1300
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:49,720
Speaker 1: hard and and personal. It got really personal and it

1301
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 1: was hurtful. But I used to look at myself and go, well,

1302
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, like, I'm not following the rules of how

1303
01:29:55,880 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be, so do I deserve the because

1304
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm not a h obeying the rules of what you're

1305
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 1: supposed to look like. And I always came back too, well, yeah,

1306
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:13,440
Speaker 1: I'm not observing the rules, so maybe I deserve this. Um.

1307
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 1: I went through everything I could do, like, you know,

1308
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: every diet, every fasting, every thing you could do, but

1309
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: it was just too hard for me to live behind.

1310
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,840
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of what changed the mood

1311
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: about it the eighties for me too. Now, ultimately, after

1312
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: the Capital era, you do TV ads for weight loss? Yeah,

1313
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 1: how do you decide to do that? Well? I met

1314
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: these people who, um, who were willing to help me

1315
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:49,719
Speaker 1: in my weight loss goals and if I would speak

1316
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: out for one of their products, and so I did,

1317
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:59,759
Speaker 1: and then they helped me, they paid for the medicine.

1318
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:02,759
Speaker 1: And where are you at with your body and weight

1319
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:06,719
Speaker 1: and image today? Well, you know, I I'm pretty relaxed

1320
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:11,600
Speaker 1: about it. Um. I really have spent so much of

1321
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,759
Speaker 1: my life struggling with it. That I it's just something

1322
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: that you can You can have it stopped your whole life,

1323
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: or you can realize that you can go on with

1324
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 1: your life and accept yourself radically. And I think I've

1325
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:31,600
Speaker 1: met just the right people, like a couple of my

1326
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:35,480
Speaker 1: trainers and stuff, who have taught me about radical self acceptance.

1327
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,600
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean just being happy to be a slab.

1328
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 1: That means looking at yourself realistically and and not through

1329
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: the eyes of pop culture. Okay, So you and your

1330
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:54,440
Speaker 1: sister wrote all these songs. Who owns those songs today?

1331
01:31:54,760 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 1: Owns um? I don't know about Nancy, about her. I

1332
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 1: know that some of some of the publishing is with Merk.

1333
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,679
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that's I'm not sure how that's

1334
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 1: going right now. But so in in terms of your publishing,

1335
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:17,679
Speaker 1: have you sold all your interest for a lump sum

1336
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 1: to Murk or there are things that doesn't own. There

1337
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 1: are the things that he does not own. So what

1338
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: does Mirk own? Okay? And what you do with the

1339
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:35,679
Speaker 1: money that Mark gave you it's going to be invested, Okay.

1340
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: Was that a tough tough decision to make a deal

1341
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 1: with Mark, No, because because you know, we met with

1342
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 1: him and and talked a lot about about ideals and

1343
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: and you know how we're going to do this that Like,

1344
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 1: I didn't just want to sign it away or sell

1345
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:58,759
Speaker 1: if it was just going to go into the toilet,

1346
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:04,560
Speaker 1: you know. Oh okay. So if we go through the seventies,

1347
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 1: you're writing the songs, but revenue from the music business

1348
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,759
Speaker 1: is less. We go into the eighties, the hit songs

1349
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 1: are not written by you, so you're making record royalties

1350
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: which are not extremely high and split with other members

1351
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 1: of the band. So how does it worked for you

1352
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 1: financially over these decades? Not in a bad way, because

1353
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 1: there's been a constant tour going on. We've just Heart

1354
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 1: has been touring, and I've been touring as a solo

1355
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 1: artist solidly since the eighties, No, I mean the beginning

1356
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 1: of the nineties. Just all the different forms that my

1357
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,759
Speaker 1: touring life has taken. My solo stuff stuff with Heart,

1358
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:54,640
Speaker 1: a duet with Nancy, the more recent stuff with the

1359
01:33:55,680 --> 01:34:00,519
Speaker 1: band I'm in now with That's like where the money

1360
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 1: has come from. For god, two decades it was playing live.

1361
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. You have these big

1362
01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 1: hits did you see any money? Oh yeah, yep, dump

1363
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 1: trucks and what do you do with the money? Um?

1364
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 1: But things houses, cars, And I didn't be really smart

1365
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 1: with investments until just recently. Uh. But I never ran

1366
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: out of money. I was able to keep it just

1367
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 1: at a nice level and have the things I wanted,

1368
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 1: but not be all lavish. If you didn't go on

1369
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: the road anymore, you have enough money to get to

1370
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 1: the end in the lifestyle you want. Yeah, I think

1371
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:53,719
Speaker 1: so now. I think so now. But you really don't

1372
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 1: know because you don't know what's what's going to happen.

1373
01:34:56,920 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 1: You know, whatever money a person is able to put

1374
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 1: away could be just blown away if something catastrophic happens.

1375
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 1: So there's never a time when you're gonna be safe,

1376
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, I think if everything goes well,

1377
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:13,920
Speaker 1: I'll be fine. I won't have to worry. I can

1378
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:17,080
Speaker 1: just go about my life. So you want to be

1379
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:21,360
Speaker 1: on the road, I do. Yeah. In fact, when enough

1380
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 1: time passes that I'm not on the road, I start

1381
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:25,760
Speaker 1: to really climb the walls and I start to not

1382
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 1: be able to speak in a fluid way. And it's

1383
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:31,519
Speaker 1: just that's what singing does for me and you're gonna

1384
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 1: do this forever till you drop, or at some point

1385
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:36,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna say you're gonna hang up your shoes. I'm

1386
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 1: probably gonna do it till I drop, run till my

1387
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 1: children's children escort me off the stage, and go go out,

1388
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: go out there and get your grandma, you know, bring

1389
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 1: her back. And when you're home. Are you a reader,

1390
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: a TV watcher, traveler? How do you fill your time

1391
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,680
Speaker 1: when you're not on the road travel? Dean and I

1392
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: watch a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff HBO, Netflix,

1393
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: You know, boy, do we ever, especially living out here

1394
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 1: in the country, swimming a lot of swimming. So what

1395
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 1: have you watched on Netflix? You recommend? Um, let's see

1396
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 1: God Marathy's Town. We're just actually finishing up watching Sopranos

1397
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: because I was on the road when that was out,

1398
01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: when that was on TV, I never saw it. Best

1399
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 1: television show ever, totally. We're just finishing it up now

1400
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:40,040
Speaker 1: for the first time, so that I really love fantastic

1401
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 1: And the only the only sad thing is that Gandalfoeni

1402
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 1: passed away. Well, don't tell me the end of the series.

1403
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:50,719
Speaker 1: I'm only talking about a real life he passed away

1404
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:55,719
Speaker 1: the guy okay, because you also know that they're making

1405
01:36:55,760 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: a prequel with his son. Oh, so it's gonna so

1406
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:05,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna come out relatively soon. And do you listen

1407
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 1: to new music? Do you care about the music scene

1408
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 1: today or just pretty much self focused? I gotta admit

1409
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:16,240
Speaker 1: I'm pretty much self focused right now. Um. I think

1410
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:22,880
Speaker 1: it's it's hard for me to um. I'm such a

1411
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 1: word person. It's hard for me to get into the

1412
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:34,600
Speaker 1: thought levels of people who are and thirty, you know.

1413
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:38,880
Speaker 1: So that's the trouble I have with listening to new music.

1414
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 1: It's not that it's bad, it's that I've heard it

1415
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 1: before and I'm always trying to keep it going out,

1416
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 1: you know. Any regrets? Um Nah? I think that one

1417
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: thing makes the next thing happen. If I had to

1418
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:00,519
Speaker 1: go back and make all those so us is again,

1419
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:04,680
Speaker 1: those decisions again, they'd be the same. I think one

1420
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: thing I would do it I would be a a

1421
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:09,519
Speaker 1: little bit more careful, not to be quite as much

1422
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:13,200
Speaker 1: of a wild partier as I was in the eighties.

1423
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 1: But that's about the only thing that's something that you

1424
01:38:16,240 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 1: grow out of, you know. And the two songs you

1425
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 1: like to sing most m hmm. Right now, I'm enjoying

1426
01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:28,880
Speaker 1: singing black Wing. It's a song I wrote for my

1427
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:36,480
Speaker 1: new album, and uh, I like singing no quarter okay,

1428
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,840
Speaker 1: And it's been fantastic. Thanks so much for spending your time.

1429
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 1: Obviously you're still in the thick of it making new music,

1430
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 1: going on the road. Thanks a lot for taking the

1431
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,599
Speaker 1: time with us. It's been really great. Until next time.

1432
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sex,