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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hello, everybody, we are live

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Speaker 1: at the courthouse. Injury is just left for a lunch break,

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Speaker 1: so let's pack it in as quickly as we can.

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you everything that has gone on

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom since we spoke yesterday. Number one, Alex

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Speaker 1: Murdog's own brother calls police to report suspicious behavior after

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Speaker 1: the roadside shooting as it is euphemistically called, and car

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Speaker 1: data maps out Alex Murdog's every movement in his vehicle

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Speaker 1: the night his wife and his son were gunned down

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Speaker 1: dead on the floor of the dog kennels. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grays, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation. In series M one eleven.

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Speaker 1: What a day in the courtroom. You know, just when

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Speaker 1: you think you can't hear anything else, nothing else can

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Speaker 1: surprise you, then you find out what's happening in the

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdog trial. First of all, you learn that the

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Speaker 1: roadside shooting evidence is coming in. What we mean by

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Speaker 1: that is allegations that the double murdered defendant Legal Air

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdog agreed with someone cousin Eddie Curtis Edward Smith

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Speaker 1: to shoot him Murdog in the head for a life

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Speaker 1: insurance proceeds. Well, I don't think that was the motive

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Speaker 1: at all. I think the motive for that fake shooting

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Speaker 1: was to make it appear that Maggie and Paul's killer

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Speaker 1: was now after Alex Murdog, so he couldn't possibly be

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Speaker 1: the killer. That's what it's all about in my mind.

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Speaker 1: But I want you to hear just as as jury

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Speaker 1: heard it today. Take a listen to our cut one

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Speaker 1: and so stood close to this car and he shot me.

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Speaker 1: He missed and hit me in the back of the head. Kay,

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Speaker 1: and Edie was all of being hitting the back of

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Speaker 1: the head. Did that have any physical back? Did I

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Speaker 1: lot some of the engine for a little bit? And

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Speaker 1: I just I'm not sure that not me to the

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Speaker 1: ground or not. But let's just I was disoriented. So

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Speaker 1: you're intense was to have him kill you? Soho he

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Speaker 1: could collect the issue life insurance right, so my son could?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I knew what I was about to lose everything,

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Speaker 1: and I think he's better off that way then, even

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Speaker 1: with me. Oh boo hoo, stop it. I heard some

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Speaker 1: sniveling there at the end. Just save all the tears

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Speaker 1: and all the snot and let's stick to the story.

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Speaker 1: Hey Christine, let me just throw another monkey you mentioned

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Speaker 1: in this thing. Could you pull up the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call where Alex Murdog call some beside the street

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Speaker 1: after he has been shot by an unknown assailant, who

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Speaker 1: he goes on to say, he's a pretty good looking guy.

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Speaker 1: And he calls nine one one to say he's been

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Speaker 1: shot in the head. But his first thing is, he says,

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Speaker 1: is I had a flat okay here, Oh oh, you've

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Speaker 1: got it really already. Now I want you to compare

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Speaker 1: this story. Now that he's caught redheaded. Even his own

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Speaker 1: brother calls detective to say something is way wrong with

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Speaker 1: this story. This is the version he finally tells flat

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Speaker 1: South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. But this is what he

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Speaker 1: told nine one one. Listen, Okay, what's going on? I stop?

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Speaker 1: I got a flat tire stopped. Somebody stopped to help me,

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Speaker 1: and when I turned my back, they tried to shoot me.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, will you shot? Yeah? But oh mean I'm

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Speaker 1: okay you shot where? Where? Will you shot it? Huh?

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Speaker 1: They actually shoot you? They're time to shoot you? They

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Speaker 1: shot me? Okay. He goes on to talk about how

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Speaker 1: he had a flat tire and he was trying to

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Speaker 1: fix the tire and along comes the guy out of

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Speaker 1: nowhere and shoots him in the head. Listen to Alex

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Speaker 1: murdog lie Man, this guy can lie like a rug deal. Carson,

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Speaker 1: you're the high profile defense attorney out of Jacksonville, former

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Speaker 1: FBI agent at Dale Carson Law dot com. What about it?

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Speaker 1: What if you were this defense attorney your clients caught

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Speaker 1: lying flat out, no way around it? Carson. Well, what

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Speaker 1: you try to do is keep that evidence out of

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Speaker 1: the juror's views, and she really stop pretending the jury's

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Speaker 1: already heard it, no wishing, it's not gonna come in.

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Speaker 1: It's in right. So it's devastating because it reflects his

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Speaker 1: lack of candor. But of course, any one who's ever

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Speaker 1: heard a shooting victim make a nine one one call

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Speaker 1: is nothing like this. So from the very outset, of course,

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Speaker 1: he's sush back. You know, I want to go to him,

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Speaker 1: a longtime friend and colleague, and this guy's a real hero.

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Speaker 1: Doctor William Maroney joining me. He's here today to talk

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Speaker 1: about opioid addiction because that is his specialty. But now

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Speaker 1: that you just said that del Carson, doctor At Maroney

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Speaker 1: and doctor Michelle Dupree with us, both pathologists, medical examiners.

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Speaker 1: They got a c CV out the wazoo, doctor Moroney,

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Speaker 1: come on, you're shot in the head and the first

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Speaker 1: thing you say to nine one one is hey, I

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Speaker 1: had a flat tire. Really well, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: significant lack of dramatic energy and crisis in his voice.

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Speaker 1: If people who are shot immediately going to flight or

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Speaker 1: fight and he just doesn't have it. Now, if he's

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Speaker 1: really a substance use disorder individual, he may be stoned

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Speaker 1: on opiates when he's seeing this. We have to explore

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Speaker 1: that later in the show, but that would be the

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Speaker 1: only explanation. Otherwise there's just not enough crisis in his voice.

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Speaker 1: You know, Maroney, I thought you were going to back

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Speaker 1: me up totally, and there you go, being a medical

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Speaker 1: doctor again, dad, Doctor Michelle Dupree, that what Maroney just

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Speaker 1: said brings to mind a real life moment. I was

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Speaker 1: tromping through a very very congested inner city housing complex

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Speaker 1: and looking for a witness in a triple homicide case.

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Speaker 1: And it was hot and bright outside in Atlanta, and

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Speaker 1: I was looking through a screen door into a dark apartment,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't really see in there. The first thing

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Speaker 1: I saw was a shotgun barrel about lesson a foot

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Speaker 1: from my face, pointed right at me. I remember that

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Speaker 1: moment that froze a moment. But then my investigator or

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Speaker 1: this was with me and we both he grabbed me.

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Speaker 1: We both went diving off the porch. So that moment

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Speaker 1: that you see a gun pointing at you as something

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Speaker 1: you never forget. So what do you make of him calling, hey,

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Speaker 1: have a flat tire? Nancy? Again, this was such a hoax.

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Speaker 1: Anybody who is, like you said, had a gun pointed

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Speaker 1: at them, or certainly anyone who has actually been shot,

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Speaker 1: regardless of how minor it may be. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's going to act so calm, cool and collected. You know,

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Speaker 1: he should be upset for one thing. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think i'd be talking about my flat tire. I'd be

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Speaker 1: wanting to get some help out there and help right now.

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Speaker 1: I've taken these calls everybody. I would just tell you,

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Speaker 1: and it's clear that if you're shot, you're going to

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Speaker 1: be worrying that you're gonna die, because no one knows

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Speaker 1: what goes Indie, and he didn't know if the guy

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Speaker 1: was going to come back. Well, everybody and their sister

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Speaker 1: knows that this is a big fat light, including Murdoch's

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Speaker 1: own brother who called detectives. So you know the jig

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Speaker 1: is up. Take a listen to our cut four. I

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Speaker 1: told him that things were getting ready to get really

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Speaker 1: bad and that I would be better off not here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm ask him to shoot me. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think at Burkey it was a little surprised, but then

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Speaker 1: he set okay, and what kind of weapon did you

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Speaker 1: get him? Revolt with pistol? What come? Third thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: he followed me in town to where two overwhere I

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Speaker 1: stopped by the Sinoco gas stations. I told him, followed

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Speaker 1: me out and that UHL made a flat tire and

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Speaker 1: he would go past me and turn around and come

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Speaker 1: back and do it. I stopped, um made my tarret claught.

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Speaker 1: I could make a tart fla with a night now

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Speaker 1: joining me. A former homicide detective has had hundreds of

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Speaker 1: homicide investigations. Now the store of the interview room on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Director of the Coal Case Foundation, Chris mcdonna, Chris, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. His credibility is totally shot.

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Speaker 1: Pardon the pun it's over. Because if he can lie

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Speaker 1: like that to the nine one one dispatch and now

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Speaker 1: he's telling a different story about he bargained with Curtis

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Speaker 1: Edward Smith to shoot him in the head, how can

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Speaker 1: the jury believe anything he says or his lawyers? What

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Speaker 1: else will he say to save his own skin? Chris

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Speaker 1: great observation, Nancy, I think the statement of the day

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Speaker 1: is some of the best confessions I ever had come

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Speaker 1: from through defense attorneys. And if you listen to that

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Speaker 1: nine one one call right away, the first thing that

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Speaker 1: sticks out is he says, they shot me. Who's they now,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's him, You know, if his

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Speaker 1: lying started right from the get goal on that call.

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Speaker 1: But we all know when we're hearing more and more

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Speaker 1: evidence come to the plate that it started long before

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Speaker 1: this fake shooting. And you know, Dell Carson, you're intimately

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Speaker 1: familiar with these facts because we've been going over and

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Speaker 1: over them every day, every inch of the way in

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Speaker 1: the development of the evidence. They see. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: catch that until mcdonnod pointed it out. That's why I

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Speaker 1: believe he was still trying to fabricate a phantom killer.

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Speaker 1: The same killer that killed Maggie and Paul now after him. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what he's trying to do. He's trying to

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Speaker 1: create that narrative and support it. I don't know whether

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Speaker 1: he's addicted to opiates or not, but of course that

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Speaker 1: would affect adversely his ability to contain, to maintain a

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Speaker 1: lie in a structure to his lying, which was up

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Speaker 1: the door for all of this investigative activity. And Chris

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Speaker 1: is absolutely right they to he rather obvious from the

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Speaker 1: very beginning. It's like his saying scene when he's talking

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Speaker 1: to the investigators about his dead wife and son, those

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Speaker 1: are not words you would ordinarily use time stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace guys. He is saying, quote, I was in

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Speaker 1: a bad, bad way. This guy would do anything for money.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe he's got an altruistic bone in his body.

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Speaker 1: Talking about giving his surviving son Buster the life insurance benefits.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I even believe that, but I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear our cut three or he admits

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Speaker 1: to the arranged shooting. I did not tell anybody the

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Speaker 1: truth until yesterday. Until yesterday afternoon, I've been really, really sick.

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Speaker 1: It's really the first day where I had any go

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Speaker 1: here though? About this? Can I sincerely apologize again for

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Speaker 1: lying to all about everything that I did. Basically, the

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Speaker 1: way I told you what happened is kind of how

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Speaker 1: it happened, except it was arranged by me. Why weren't

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Speaker 1: you mean, why weren't you choos when? When? When this

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Speaker 1: initially happened. I don't have a good reason, bad bad,

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Speaker 1: bad belief. Okay, doctor Moroney, opioid expert, author of America

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Speaker 1: narcn on the Like Zone and heroin fental associated mortality.

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Speaker 1: He's a medical exam or, a toxicologist, a pathologist, and

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Speaker 1: he's been in a hundred courtrooms or more. Doctor Moroney,

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Speaker 1: just hold just a moment, just a moment. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear everything he just said? I don't have time to

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Speaker 1: dissect it all the blackboard like the English teacher. But listen,

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Speaker 1: I sincerely apologize again for lying to you all about

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Speaker 1: everything I did. I mean, it's lie after lie after lying.

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Speaker 1: Now he was the jury to believe his Cockamami's story,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have a good reason for lying. I

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Speaker 1: was in a bad, bad way. Hold wait for it,

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Speaker 1: wait for it, doctor Maroney. I want you to hear

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Speaker 1: about his dry habit. In our cut two, Smith is

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Speaker 1: the primary person who I've purchased peals frown for years

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Speaker 1: and some weeks. You would give him how much money

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Speaker 1: for bill? We didn't weeks? Where they would be fifty

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Speaker 1: sixty dollars? How would you pay him? In cash? And

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Speaker 1: mostly in checks, but in some cash too, okay? And

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Speaker 1: on accounts? Would those checks come from divastment? Audy of

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Speaker 1: them would come from the Bank of America account, but

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Speaker 1: there would also be some funds that would come from

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Speaker 1: the Palmetta State account And who's account of us mane um?

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Speaker 1: The Bank of Americans accounts are in my name. And

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Speaker 1: then there's another account there that I created, that's the DBA.

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Speaker 1: That's my name, BBA. Ford. Did you pay Curtis any

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Speaker 1: money for this? You know, sir, you didn't pay him anything.

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Speaker 1: So you just asked of a favor and he did. Yes,

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Speaker 1: kill me. Okay. You know doctor Moroney, and I read

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Speaker 1: you his qualifications. But do you know this man? In

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Speaker 1: addition to help raising his family, has created money for

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Speaker 1: a traveling science lab to help opioid addicted people all

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Speaker 1: across the country. He's the expert. Okay, A fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a week opioid habit. Everybody on social media says

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Speaker 1: that's not possible. Fifty thousand dollars a week for some pills.

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Speaker 1: Here's the truth. In America, we do have social disparities.

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Speaker 1: But one of those disparities is the drug addiction that

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Speaker 1: you can see in the upper class and people of means,

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Speaker 1: they pay a lot of money to make sure that

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Speaker 1: they don't get fake pills. Ordinarily a thousand dollars a

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Speaker 1: day habit. We can go with that. I can believe that.

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Speaker 1: Thousand and two thousand dollars a day. Yeah, we've seen that.

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Speaker 1: And the average person that has subsidies disorder, that has

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Speaker 1: that kind of habit, they're going to be stealing, they're

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Speaker 1: going to be selling their body that you just don't

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Speaker 1: have that kind of money. But in people of means,

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Speaker 1: he wants to make sure he doesn't get fake fentonel

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Speaker 1: pills to die and he is paying extra money. Now

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Speaker 1: it is ridiculous, but he can pay that because what

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Speaker 1: was described in his habit was oxycodone thirty milligrams, and

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Speaker 1: we don't know how many he's taking. But the average

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Speaker 1: person on the street when they were addicted, when these

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Speaker 1: pills flooded the street. Eighty milligrams cost eighty to one

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars and you paid a dollar a milligram. And

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Speaker 1: I have seen in our addiction setting our clinic people

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Speaker 1: addicted to ten to fifteen pills a day. Let's say

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Speaker 1: twelve is a good average at eighty milligrams, that's nine

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty milligrams a day, and you pay a

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Speaker 1: dollar a milligram to the drug dealer for these pills.

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Speaker 1: Everybody on the street takes what they can get, but

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Speaker 1: when you're a person of means and you can shell

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Speaker 1: out more money, you better make sure that you're not

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Speaker 1: taking fentanyl. And fake fentanyl pills are everywhere. So is

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Speaker 1: he actually getting that forty fifty thousand dollars a week

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Speaker 1: for the actual drugs? No, he's paying for the drugs,

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Speaker 1: and he's paying a ridiculous amount of insurance to make

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Speaker 1: sure he doesn't end up with fake pills. That's the

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Speaker 1: way I interpret this. And the other thing he has

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Speaker 1: to worry about is he taking these and he's destroying

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Speaker 1: his liver. If it's fake stuff, you don't know what's

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Speaker 1: in it. Okay, wait, just let me stop you right there.

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Speaker 1: Just right there, Moroni. I am not concerned today about

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdock's liver. I'm concerned about Maggie and Paul shot

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Speaker 1: up on the floor of a dog kennel. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear about his liver. But I can tell

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Speaker 1: you this much. If this is some how going to

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Speaker 1: be used with the jury to make them feel sorry

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Speaker 1: for Alex murdog and his fifty thousand dollars a week

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Speaker 1: drug habit, it ain't working. That is not going to work.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, isn't it true Chris mcdonna

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Speaker 1: that when you are looking at a host of potential suspects,

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Speaker 1: if you pick the nut or the drug addict, you're

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Speaker 1: going to find the right one because all of his

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Speaker 1: so called enemies are not going to take a twelve

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Speaker 1: gage and go gun down his wife and son. He

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Speaker 1: is the one thinking out of his mind on opioids.

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Speaker 1: He is the one whose world is crashing down around him.

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Speaker 1: And typically I would feel badly for someone like that

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Speaker 1: and try to help them through their crisis get back

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Speaker 1: on their feet. But he murdered two people, according to

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Speaker 1: the state, and when you're looking at choices of candidates,

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Speaker 1: he stands out Chris mcdonnah. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: if we really think through this, right, if if he

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Speaker 1: does have the means, most of those types of individuals

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Speaker 1: are going to docs you know, who are writing bad scripts, right,

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Speaker 1: and those scripts are multiplied, you know, times one hundred

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Speaker 1: for opioids. They're not going to drug dealers and asking hey,

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Speaker 1: do you take checks, you know, for for my drug addiction?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I've you and I both know and

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Speaker 1: Dale and everybody else on this. Baniel knows that when

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Speaker 1: these things go down like this, if it's a drug hit,

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Speaker 1: you know, type of connection, it's certainly not going to

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Speaker 1: be tied together with checks. And I think that was

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Speaker 1: again another mistake. Guys. I'm hearing in my ears that

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Speaker 1: we are now beer. If Magic char were here, she'd

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Speaker 1: be asking this simple question, where's Alex Murdoch's withdrawal? Where

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Speaker 1: is it? I don't see it at all during the

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Speaker 1: entire course of the investigation up to this point. I

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Speaker 1: don't see him on medications to help him out of

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Speaker 1: a massive withdrawal from that continued use of opioids. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's another big question in my mind as to whether

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Speaker 1: or not he truly was addicted in that strict gent well. Also,

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Speaker 1: we know that he after he arranged a shooting in

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Speaker 1: the head incident, he did go briefly into a savannah.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was hospital and then in Atlanta rehab,

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Speaker 1: very very briefly, and he's come out as fresh as

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Speaker 1: a daisy. I'm hearing in my area. Are now being

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Speaker 1: joined by Anne Anderson, senior investigative reporter WCIV and she's

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Speaker 1: the host of an incredible podcast, Unsaft South Carolina, The

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Speaker 1: Murdoch Murders, Money and Mystery. And I believe one of

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Speaker 1: the last things I heard before the judge announced the

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Speaker 1: lunch break was that Murdoch had arranged for a six

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars line of credit for the farm Nancy.

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Speaker 1: This morning has just been unbelievable testimony coming in from Sled. Basically,

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Speaker 1: we had a SLED agents up on the stand with

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Speaker 1: the prosecution sort of giving this condensed timeline of what happened.

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Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack here because there are new

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Speaker 1: details that were just learning. But the one that you

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Speaker 1: just said, they really came out swinging at the very end,

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Speaker 1: right before the lunch break. They came out to say.

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Speaker 1: There were some very very specific messages that we're going

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Speaker 1: back and forth between Alec Murdoch, his son Paul, as

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Speaker 1: well as Alec Murdoch and Russell Lafitte, where he reached

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Speaker 1: out to his personal banker, Russell Lafitte, who's already gone

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Speaker 1: up on charges of financial fraud and has already been

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Speaker 1: in federal court on this, and he told Russell what

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Speaker 1: was it? Let me look, I think it was like

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Speaker 1: literally two days okay, so four days before before the murderers,

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Speaker 1: he reached out to and staid, I need to extend

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Speaker 1: my farm credit six hundred thousand dollars. My dad will

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Speaker 1: sign how much? How long will it take to turn

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Speaker 1: this around? Is what the text message said, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much what he went out on, along with

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Speaker 1: a couple of pictures of Maggie with her sister and

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Speaker 1: Maggie with the family. That is, of course, we now

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Speaker 1: know that the father of Alec Murdoch, the father that

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Speaker 1: he's talking about that would sign that loan with him

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Speaker 1: for six hundred thousand dollars, passed away and was on

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Speaker 1: his deathbed on June seven. Doctor William Moroney, opioid expert

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Speaker 1: and author of American narcan What do opioids do to you?

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Speaker 1: How was he still able to go into the law

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Speaker 1: office and handle matters and arrange six hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: line of credit increases and carry on a normally. In

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Speaker 1: the beginning, you become tolerant, and once you become tolerant,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get the opioid, you can't function. You

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Speaker 1: are sick. So the euphoria, the what we call the

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Speaker 1: buzz or the getting high, it's really not part of

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Speaker 1: the long term part of his disease. He if his

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Speaker 1: addiction is real, he needs the opioids to function at

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Speaker 1: a normal level because without him, he'll be vomiting, He'll

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Speaker 1: be running into the bathroom, he can't breathe, they'll have

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Speaker 1: panic attacks, He'll be draining from every hole in his

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Speaker 1: body with some kind of fluid, and that is withdrawal.

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Speaker 1: So you need to continue increasing the dose. And it

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Speaker 1: was demonstrated that he was probably on oxycotton thirties. Well,

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Speaker 1: you start on one or two or three, and you

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Speaker 1: end up on two over fifteen and maybe twenty. What

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Speaker 1: you need to understand is, if this is real and

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Speaker 1: it's ongoing, he needed those opioids to function, and once

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Speaker 1: he went to rehab. The top five rehabs in Savannah,

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Speaker 1: three of the five use something called medication assisted treatment.

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Speaker 1: They continue a safe FDA approved opioid called bupin orphine,

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Speaker 1: and that allows you to continue functioning. So he needed

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Speaker 1: higher doses to stay functioning. The euphoria is gone. It's

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Speaker 1: just to keep from getting sick. But what he has

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Speaker 1: and what we don't see happen when people get this tolerances.

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Speaker 1: The clarity of thought still isn't there, because now he

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Speaker 1: has impaired functioning, impaired thinking that the opioid is part

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Speaker 1: of the focus. And if I don't get it, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to function. So his higher

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Speaker 1: level functions, which could be morals, which could be ethics,

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Speaker 1: which could be time management, higher thinking that begins to suffer.

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Speaker 1: So that's how he gets to such high doses, and

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Speaker 1: that's how that works. He needed it to function. If

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Speaker 1: this is real substance use disorder, he would have driven

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Speaker 1: his tolerance up. I'm just still having a hard time

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Speaker 1: taking in a fifty thousand dollars a week drug addiction

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Speaker 1: on pills. But he's not that smart. Same as fantastical

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Speaker 1: to make what he's not that smart. He overpaid for that,

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Speaker 1: or that's as big a lie as some of the

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Speaker 1: other things. Fifty thousand dollars a week, maybe two, maybe four,

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Speaker 1: maybe three, but not fifty If he did, he's not

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Speaker 1: that smart. Guys, Also today, card data mapping out Alex

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Speaker 1: Murlog's every move in his vehicle the night at Maggie

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Speaker 1: and Paul are murdered, and it seems I hope you're

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Speaker 1: not too surprised to contradict his story, but I want

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Speaker 1: to finish about the rehab. Guys, take a listen now

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Speaker 1: to our cut six. A lot of firewars between lead

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Speaker 1: Attorney Hartpootlian and the agent, Special Agent Ryan Kelly on

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Speaker 1: the stand. Listen, we're having a difficult time here communicating

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Speaker 1: this morning. Did you tell anyone in his family the

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Speaker 1: reason you wanted to see him while he was in

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Speaker 1: rehab was to show him a picture of a truck.

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Speaker 1: The conversations about the picture of the truck we obtained

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Speaker 1: the picture of the truck on and around. Excuse me

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Speaker 1: if you would just answer yes or no, and then

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Speaker 1: you can explain your answer. A senior Special Agent Kelly,

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Speaker 1: we knew the truck that, mister Smith, I didn't ask

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Speaker 1: you what else you knew? I asked you the whips

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of complete as answer, mister al Pool,

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Speaker 1: they didn't talk to me about his medical records. Then

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Speaker 1: you didn't ask them, did you? He and you asked

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Speaker 1: them the testing that was that you ask them, not

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Speaker 1: asked to discuss specific aspects of mister Murdoch's medical condition. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that irritated me. No end for the agent to be

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Speaker 1: spoken to that way, Senior Special Agent Kelly, I mean

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Speaker 1: Ann Emerson. That had to irritate the jury or do

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Speaker 1: I have it, Bess Akwards. I think they're starting to

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Speaker 1: understand Attorney Harputlian's way of handling witnesses. He's got a

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Speaker 1: very gruff. He was barking, like you said. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was definitely like moments. What he's trying to do

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Speaker 1: is he's setting up that things were not done the

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Speaker 1: way they should have been. This is what they've been

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Speaker 1: using for their whole defense. Now, this is an example

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Speaker 1: of what was going on with this competency. And he

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Speaker 1: even said, and I don't know if y'all caught this,

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Speaker 1: but they literally had to send the jury out at

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Speaker 1: one point during this very heated exchange with Harputlian and

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Speaker 1: Agent Kelly because they he was arguing so emphatically that

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Speaker 1: if this really, if they really wanted to take it there,

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Speaker 1: he would call for a competency hearing to see have

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Speaker 1: one of the doctors brought up from Savannah Memorial Hospital

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Speaker 1: to say whether or not Alec Murdock was in any

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Speaker 1: shape to be talking to anybody about anything. But of

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Speaker 1: course Agent Kelly said, look, we thought he was a victim.

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Speaker 1: We needed to get as much information. Doesn't matter so

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Speaker 1: the jury, that doesn't matter about the evidence they were listening.

426
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: Competency is a legal issue to be determined by the

427
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: judge competency at the time. If it had been ruled

428
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: Alex Murdock was not competent to speak to SLED agents

429
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: while he was in rehab, that would have been hashed

430
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: out between the lawyers, not arguing the evidence can't come

431
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: in in front of the jury. That's completely backwards. Guys,

432
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. We represented on that call

433
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: that he was in a detox facility before when we

434
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: called you to set up the call in Atlanta, and

435
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: he was now and I think we've said on the

436
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: recording that the doctors indicate he's coherent, he's been through

437
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: the detox was a pretty tough process, and would he

438
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: was willing to talk to you once he was competent

439
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: to do so. Isn't that correct? That's the information you

440
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: relate to me. Yes, okay. Do you have any reason

441
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: to doubt that? No? Sooner okay? And so while he

442
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: as soon as he came out of the initial stages

443
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: of detox. You don't know this, but we went down.

444
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: We called you. It's hard pulling. You can't testify. Yeah,

445
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: Hartpoolian is testifying. It's not really a question. He's saying

446
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: things that this witness couldn't possibly know about the defense

447
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: team's movements at the time. And I've done a little

448
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: research on Hartpoolian by contacting multiple members of multiple state

449
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: bars that have done business with him. And guess what,

450
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: they all like him. All the lawyers love heart Pooling

451
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: and he's like a good old guy. They love to

452
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: go to a bar fux and throw back a couple

453
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: of drinks, swap stories. And you know, I've seen that

454
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: conviviality wanders with a jury. I don't know if that's

455
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: working in this case. So bottom line to you, doctor Moroney,

456
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: opioid expert, tell me about rehab, because it seems like

457
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: Mardi was pretty coherent when he talked to Sled. The

458
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: amount of detox you doing rehab that really punishes you

459
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: is probably the first two to three days where we're

460
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: trying to find the right medicine to see. The big

461
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: three or four things that happen in detox and rehab

462
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: is you get hot and cold flashes. Your skin feels

463
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: like it has snakes and ants crawling on it. We

464
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: give you clinidine. The second thing is you get huge

465
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: panic attacks and anxiety. Some places give you hydroxyzine, non narcotic,

466
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: other places give you audavan or valium. It's schedule four.

467
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: And then you get the nausea. You want to vomit,

468
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: you feel like you're on the edge of the flu

469
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: or you gotta run to the toilet. We give you

470
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: fenergan chromethazine to reduce the nausea. And one of the

471
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: final things is insomnia. Your body's hyper. It's driven because

472
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: while you're on opioids, you're chilled, you're numbed. That's what

473
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: the opioids do. Even though you're not getting euphoria. There depressants.

474
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: People to do opioids are very special people. They in addiction,

475
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: you go one or two ways. You either like uppers

476
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: or you like downers. And if you're into opioids, the

477
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: opioids bring you down, so you can't sleep. So when

478
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: you're in with ROW, you're on over drive. So we

479
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: you know, we can give you some trazodone, or we

480
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: can give you some syrac will or maybe a little ambient.

481
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: Those are the four things. In two or three days,

482
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: we probably have you back to where you can talk

483
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: to people. You're not running to the bathroom, you don't

484
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: have any accidents, you don't vomit your food, you're not

485
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: having panic attacks. And after that, the medicine keeps you stable.

486
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: So I've been setting you up all along, Maroni, this

487
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: is where I'm going. Number one, you've already told me

488
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: that even on a high amount of opioids an addict,

489
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: if you're used to it, you built up a tolerance

490
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: and you can function normally. In other words, go into

491
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: your law office, have conversations, drive your car. You've just

492
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: told me that if you're on opioids, you can also

493
00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: become numbed. So my theory, So what you've told me.

494
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: My conclusion is the night of the murders, he could

495
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: function properly. He could lay out a plan and carry

496
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: out the plan and then be numbed to what he

497
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: was really doing murdering his wife and son. He could

498
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: have been taking the OxyContin with a beer chaser to

499
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: get into the mood, to relax, to get there, and

500
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: that impaired thinking that comes with long term opioid use

501
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're slow. It means you may not be

502
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: functioning higher powers, so morally and ethically, you may not

503
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: be activating those parts of your brain which lead you

504
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: to criminal activity. With me and Emerson s investigatory reporter WCIV,

505
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm very anxious for our listeners and viewers to hear

506
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: about the car data that mapped out Alex Mardog's movement

507
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: then of the double murders. Explain what happened, Well, we

508
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: got a new data at last Friday. They received new

509
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: data that basically was looking at what GM on Star

510
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: data didn't have before. Now this data is all I

511
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: think it was forty eight hundred data points that they

512
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: didn't have before, and the State was able to crunch

513
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: those numbers put it on the timeline that they were

514
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: already working on, and what it did was it solidified

515
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: some things they didn't know and brought a little bit

516
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: clarity to us where Alec Murdock was on in his car.

517
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: One of the very important parts is when he gets

518
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: to Almeda the night of the murders nine twenty two

519
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: to forty three. We now know Shelley Smith her assertion

520
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: that he was there for twenty minutes is right on,

521
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: because that's how long his car was. We also learned

522
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: that he parked not in the parking lot of Almita,

523
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: but he actually parked near the woodline or near the

524
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: out buildings, just passed that parking lot. They were showing

525
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: it to us on a map. Another very important data

526
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: point that we got from GM in this new uh,

527
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: this new load of information, was that when he got

528
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: back to Moselle in the car, we know that he

529
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: arrived at ten O five fifty seven. We know that

530
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: the nine one one call was at ten O six eleven.

531
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: That's approximately anywhere you know, what is that fourteen to

532
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: twenty second twenty seconds us in twenty seconds before that's

533
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: not enough time for him to go to And that's

534
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: very and find their bodies. It sounds to me, Del Carson,

535
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: based on what Ann Emerson just told us, you know,

536
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: thirty twenty seconds have passed by the time he got

537
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: back to Moselle and called nine one one. He didn't

538
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: have time too And I was we were singing that

539
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: earlier deal, Carson, but we were looking at the opening

540
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and the shutting of the car door and what was

541
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: going on. There didn't seem to be any time for

542
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: him to go and discover the bodies and come back

543
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: to the car based on the opening and the closing

544
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: of the doors so rapidly just before the nine one

545
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: one call. Remember that, and now what Ann Emerson is

546
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: explaining interpreting for us what was heard on the stand

547
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: was that he pulls into Moselle, the hunting lodge, and

548
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: within just seconds he's calling nine one one. He never

549
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: got a chance to look at the bodies. Well, the

550
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: most damaging testimony that's appeared so far is that Maggie's

551
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: cell phone was traveling forty five miles an hour until

552
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: the same track that was taken by Alex It was

553
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: thrown out and stopped moving exactly where they found the phone. Yes,

554
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: that is damning guys. I want you to hear the

555
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: way the jury heard it in our cut seven about

556
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: Murdoch's car leaving Moselle the night of the murders, and

557
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: what del Carson is describing traveling along with Maggie's cell phone.

558
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: Listen to the orange that's going to represent approximately where

559
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: Maggie Murdas phone was located the following day on June eight,

560
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, right, and we have a time reference

561
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 1: for the suburban at this time we do it's gonna

562
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: be nine oh eight thirty six seconds at showing a

563
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: speed of forty two miles an hour. Moving on to

564
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: the next one, so i'll jury what this is. In

565
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: the grayish white looking box, you can still see the

566
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: little circle where it says Maggie Murdas phone location, and

567
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: right under its where the pin the pinpoint's going to

568
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: be between nine oh eight thirty six forty two miles

569
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 1: an hour. Next live twenty five the upper halfway portion

570
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: of that box, you're going to see the circle again,

571
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: orange circle. That's me Maggie Murdas phone. And at nine

572
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: eight forty two we have the suburban traveling approximately forty

573
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: five miles an hour after passing that location, as the

574
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: defendant's vehicle start to accelerate it does you know while back,

575
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, star of the Interview Room on YouTube, we

576
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: were talking right here on a lunch break, and either

577
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: you or I said, wow, I wish we had the

578
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: paying data and the phone data that can match and

579
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: put their phones together traveling when her phone was discarded

580
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: and lo and behold it happened. Chris, Yeah, exactly, Nancy

581
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: Ann and I think collectively we were thinking this, and

582
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: so again, as an investigative process, it comes down to

583
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: these minutia details here. These are situations where that GM,

584
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: that GM data comes back, They put it through the

585
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: the cast programs. Remember we talked about Gladiator as well,

586
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of weeks ago. These are the

587
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: kind of programs welcome to the twenty first century, where

588
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: you can try to hide your digital footprint as much

589
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: as possible. You can even be a trial lawyer like

590
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: Murdoch was, and then all of a sudden, out of

591
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: nowhere comes this type of information that says, hey, you

592
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: forgotten this because you didn't see it. And this is

593
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: where you know, I think he realized again and his

594
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: team realized today. You know, this is a real problem.

595
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious if Sled's not going to move now that

596
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: this stat has just come in to start looking for

597
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: the weapons in and around that area as well, now

598
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: that they know his direct path, you would hope that

599
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: they've already done that. I mean, we used to walk

600
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: rural roadways this exact map, though, Dale, They've just gotten

601
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: the evidence in the past couple of days. Remember, all

602
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: of this evidence as it lines up with the car tracking,

603
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: has just come in. Hey to doctor Michelle Dupree forensic pathologists,

604
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: medical examine or former detective and author of Homicide Investigation

605
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: Field Guide. Even at the level of opioid addiction that

606
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: he was at, as you heard described by doctor Moroney,

607
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: could he have been able to aim and fire the

608
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: way he did? Absolutely, Nancy. I think that a functioning

609
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: drug addict or alcoholic. I mean, that's what it means.

610
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: It means that they can still function relatively normally when

611
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: things like this are going on. I wanted to say

612
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: something about this car data though It's not only that.

613
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: Remember that there were seventy three or four erasures on

614
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: his phone that still showed up, and that's something that

615
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: we have an investigation we call pertinent negatives. Who is

616
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: going to take the time to erase seventy four calls

617
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: or texts from something? What is he trying to hide?

618
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: And I think that's very talent, as well as all

619
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: of this other data crime stories with Nancy Grace to you,

620
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. If he was high unopia was to the

621
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: ten of fifty thousand dollars a week, which I still reject,

622
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: but let's just go with it. Would he have been

623
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: able to form the thought pattern to take Maggie's phone

624
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: and throw it out? Remember he's a trial lawyer, he

625
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: knows all about evidence, and we've got the phone traveling

626
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: the same way as his vehicle as suburban. So would

627
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: he be able to have the coherent thought process to

628
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: discard her phone? I think it might not have been

629
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: something that he could pre think about. Level this is

630
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. I need to do something

631
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: because you follow that and then you go, oh my god, no,

632
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: I didn't do this this Um, there's obviously many things

633
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: he forgot to do and he tried to catch up on.

634
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: But eventually the higher level functioning, because he's educated and

635
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: he's a person of means, keeps him going. The function

636
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: that's disturbing in substance use disorder, and that we say

637
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: is the impaired thinking, is the moral and the ethical

638
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: component that would lead to the criminal behavior. Because that's

639
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 1: an excuse, right, that's an excuse why. Yes, that's why

640
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: they want it. But wouldn't you create that excuse for

641
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: yourself if you're a defense attorney and you're trying to

642
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: create the view that he was so out of whack

643
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: on drugs, and the way you do that is you

644
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: have him spending fifty thousand dollars a week on drugs.

645
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: The person who knows why, yes, man, yes, I think

646
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: Maroni said yes, and answer to that question, guys, I

647
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: want to hear it one more time, Christine, do you

648
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: mind playing seven? Now that we've hashed through it, I

649
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: want to hear it again with a deeper appreciation for

650
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: the evidentiary value of it. Our cut seven. So the

651
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: orange dot that's going to represent approximately where Maggie Murdo's

652
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: phone was located the following day on June eighty twenty one.

653
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: All right, and we have a time reference for the

654
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: suburban of this time we do. It's gonna be nine

655
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: oh eight thirty six seconds at showing a speed of

656
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: forty two miles an hour. Moving on to the next one. So, Jerry,

657
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: let this is in the grayish white looking box. You

658
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: can still see the little circle where it says Maggie

659
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: Murdos phone location, and right under its where the pin

660
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: the pinpoint's going to be. It's GOWE nine h eight

661
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: thirty six forty two miles an hour. Next live twenty

662
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: five the upper halfway portion of that that box, you're

663
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: going to see the circle again. Orange cool, that's me,

664
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: Maggie Murdo's phone. And at ninety two we have the

665
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: suburban traveling approximately forty five miles an hour after passing

666
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: that location. As the defendant's vehicles start to accelerate, it

667
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: does so after he throws the phone out of the car,

668
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: he speeds up, heading for his alibi. Mozelle to Ann Emerson,

669
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: what was the jury doing. Was it dawning on them

670
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 1: that Maggie's cell phone is leaving Mozelle at the time

671
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: is leaving the hunting lodge at the same time. He

672
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 1: said it to Mozelle. Absolutely, I mean these are connecting

673
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: the dots. This is exactly what the state. This is

674
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: where they wanted to rush their case later today. They

675
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: want to be able to show the jury very clearly

676
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: and went back to make sure they heard it that

677
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: truly this is happening, this is how it went down.

678
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: And when the jury hears this, you can see them

679
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: leaning and they were all paying wrapped attention. They're trying

680
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: to understand these these these dots that have to be connected.

681
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: And once again I have to say, like the jury

682
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: doesn't get to take notes like I do, you know,

683
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: so I'm sitting here writing down every single thing. So

684
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: what the state prosecutor really has to do is stop,

685
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: take stop whatever's happening with his timeline and say did

686
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 1: you hear that? Did you hear what I just said?

687
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: And that's that's really what he did. He took those

688
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: major points and he said, did you hear what this

689
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: agent just told you? Yeah? Yeah, So the dawning that

690
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: it must have just descended on them that Maggie's phone

691
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: is traveling along the same route at the same time,

692
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: at the same speed as Murdog's suburban leaving the hunting

693
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: lodge at Mozelle for Mom's house at Almida. It's traveling

694
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: in his suburban. There's only one one conclusion to make,

695
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: and that's not all. Take a listen to our cut eight.

696
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: So this is going to be from his drive back

697
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: from Almita to Moselle Road. The max speed that was

698
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: obtained during that drive was at nine fifty one forty

699
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: three seconds was eighty miles an hour. You're traveling as

700
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: fast as you possibly can and still be reasonably safe.

701
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct? And have you had

702
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: call prior to this road being paved to run code

703
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: down that road? That's correct? All right? Would you at

704
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: night or did you ever at night on the roads

705
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: as they existed at the time of June south of

706
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, running code with your lights on run

707
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: eighty miles an hour down that road? I would not know.

708
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: Due to the time of night, the heavy deer population

709
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: out there as everyone could probably see, I mean, deer

710
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: will run out all the time. And then also the

711
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: road conditions the road be you know, was very a

712
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: lot of potholes. Postal speed limit is fifty five man.

713
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: You can say that again to Chris McDonough who has

714
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: traveled those roads and looking at the side of the

715
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: roadside shooting. The first time I went to the Carlton

716
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: County Courthouse. I wanted to have supper with my children

717
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: before I left on a Sunday night, so I left

718
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: late and I drove through the night to get there.

719
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: And it was just the way this witness is describing.

720
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: No street lights, it's a two way. It's really really dark.

721
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: I know I passed. I had to pass forty deer

722
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,320
Speaker 1: possums coming out in front of you right as you

723
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: come up on them. There's it would be very, very

724
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: difficult to speed under those conditions. Yeah, and it's pitch black, right, Nancy.

725
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: I mean, and as well as not only do you

726
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: have the animals coming out, but you you know, if

727
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: you're running on opioids, you know, let's hypothesize there for

728
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: a moment. You know, remember that's a depression. And so

729
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: he's also you know, under the influence, and that could

730
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: impair his driving, not necessarily his thought process based upon

731
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: his tolerance level that the doctor's talking about. I mean,

732
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: you and I have both known and others that there

733
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: are functioning addicts out there, you know, day to day

734
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: and have been through many many years. But for him,

735
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: I think what we've got going on here is the

736
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: adrenaline of everything going on. He's you know, he's got

737
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: to get back there, and he's going to go as

738
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: the defense attorney dead, running code at himself, not the officer,

739
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: but you know, Murdoch, he's running code himself internally to

740
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: get back to that house, to get his play back

741
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: in motion. Well, and his running code is, you know,

742
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,959
Speaker 1: trying to answer a call. That's what that means. Go ahead, Dale.

743
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: The iPhones themselves now are capable of showing not only

744
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: steps but frequency, So at the time of the purported murders,

745
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,760
Speaker 1: at the actual murders, you can see that he's running

746
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: seventy steps a minute, which is running. So there's a

747
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: lot of activity going on at the original site of

748
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: the shootings that is memorialized in those phones. It's pretty incredible. So, guys,

749
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: we've got him going eighty mph on those back roads

750
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, no street lights, dear possums,

751
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: animals coming out in front of you. Why why was

752
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: he in such a hurry to get back to the

753
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: hunting lodge at Moselle. Then he arrives. Take a listen

754
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: to our cut nine. This is going to be a

755
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: time stamp of ten h five oh six pm and

756
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: this is showing Alex Murdile leaving for the kennels, and

757
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: then slide fifty two this is showing the suburban arriving

758
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: at the kennels ten or five fifty seven PM. And

759
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: to your recollection, during the nine one one call, did

760
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: the defendant say he was returning back to the residence

761
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: or during that nine one one call he did all right,

762
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: And so we're on slot fifty three one. Does this

763
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,959
Speaker 1: reflect this would be him heading back to the house

764
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: around ten eleven fifty four. Again highly significant. Ann Emerson

765
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 1: WC I V. Explain the significance of those times ten

766
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: oh five point six, ten oh five point fifty seven

767
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: and then the ten O six nine one one call. Well,

768
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: that's right. So what we were able to learn from

769
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: these new data points is that he arrived at Moselle immediately,

770
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: Moselle being the main hunting lodge. He went up that

771
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: main driveway right, he goes to the house, turns straight

772
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: down into the kennels. He arrives at the kennels at

773
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: five fifty seven ten O five fifty seven. He makes

774
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: his call to nine one one at ten O six eleven,

775
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: which only gives him twenty seconds are so right to

776
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: check the bodies, because that's what what we understand from

777
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: him when he was talking to when when he was

778
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 1: this is what I'm asking is because that's what that's

779
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: what he said. He said he checked pulses, that he

780
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: went to the bodies. How do you do that in

781
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: fourteen to twenty seconds? That's that's very difficult to understand.

782
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: For the according to my count, it's not even twenty seconds.

783
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: Fifty seven to eleven would be fourteen seconds to go

784
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: in see your wife and your son murdered, and take

785
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: their pulse and put the phone back on Paul's body,

786
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: and get the wherewithal to go call nine one one,

787
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: all of that in fourteen seconds. It would take me

788
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: fourteen seconds to get out of the car and walk

789
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: to the kennel at least. And this is a timeline.

790
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: He's a timeline issue that is going to be hard.

791
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: He was flat out lying. He was lying. And you

792
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: know that's the thing about opioid addicts, to you, doctor Moroni,

793
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: they just lie. Drug addicts lie. They lie to get drugs,

794
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: they lie to cover up drugs, they lie to keep

795
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: a normal life going. Everything is a lie. It's impaired

796
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: thinking because the drugs rewire the brain, and that's gonna

797
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: be their defense. The truth is, we don't know if

798
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: he was really addicted. We don't know if he had

799
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: a substance use disorder problem. He will have to give

800
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: the source of drugs that he bought. And what dealer

801
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: is going to put their hand on a bible and say, yep,

802
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: I sold him everything. Nobody. He doesn't have anybody to

803
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: back that up. But about a Dell Carson. Curtis Smith

804
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: is his supplier according to him. And so you just

805
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: ask Curtis Smith with a deal because he's gonna get charged,

806
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: and ask him where did you get the drugs that

807
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: you gave to Alex. That's the clear answer to the problem. Yes,

808
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm hearing in my ear from my producer

809
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: when she Kelly and I were driving that road, she says,

810
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: white knuckles, white knuckles because we were holding on so

811
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: tight to see and he's going eighty mph, you know,

812
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: slides in and in fourteen seconds and once he arrives

813
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: he has correct me if I'm wrong, and he has

814
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: turned off the car, got in out of the car,

815
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: walked to the kennels, gone in the kennels, probably saying, hey, guys,

816
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: where are you? How did he not even go to

817
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: the kennels. Did he stop by the house first? How

818
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: did he know they were in the kennels? Go in there,

819
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: have the shock of seeing their bodies, he said, he

820
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: took their pulse, tried to turn Paul over, put the

821
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: phone back on his body, and then go call nine

822
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: one one, all in fourteen seconds. That's the theory. That

823
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: is a lie. And well, and not only that, now

824
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: we also have a problem with who he was calling

825
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: based on these Verizon records, because of course they put

826
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: that in the timeline as well. Even though they were

827
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: deleted off of his phone, some of these calls, the

828
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: calls end up on the Verizon call records. And we

829
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 1: now see that if we tie back that kennel video

830
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: that last eight forty four PM when the last time

831
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: we heard, according to all of these witnesses that that's

832
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: Alex's voice on the kennel video, we now learned today

833
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: that he had tried to call Rogan multiple times before

834
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: that first cop arrived. Why, guys, I also want you

835
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: to hear what was happening in the courtroom just before

836
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: the lunch break. In our cut twelve. Guy at the

837
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: bottom of the page, what time is the nine one

838
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: one call? Ten h six fourteen? How many seconds of

839
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: that from the time that the suburban arrives at the

840
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 1: kennels and he calls nine one one, roughly twenty seconds.

841
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 1: You recall the defendants statements to law enforcement shortly after

842
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: the crime that he went over and checked the bodies

843
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing I do, what if anything?

844
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: And his statements to law enforcement. Did the defendants say

845
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: about what he did when he arrived at the scene.

846
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: The defendant stated that he went and checked on Paula Magge,

847
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: checked the bodies from the moment, yeah, suburban arrived at

848
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: the kennels. How long did it take for that nine

849
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: one one calls to be made? That's twenty seconds? You know,

850
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: all of the first thing discussion. Wouldn't the first thing

851
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: go ahead, go ahead, to be to flee? You're right up.

852
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: You see people killed. The first thing you're gonna think

853
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: is where's the killer? I'd better get out of here.

854
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: The first thing I think I would rush to my

855
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: my son's body and my husband's body. I think that

856
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: would be the first thing I would do. And then

857
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: it might dawn on me, but all of our discussion,

858
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: I mean, does it ever dawn on any of you?

859
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure it does as we're talking about time stamps

860
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: and MPH and the distance traveled and the logistics we

861
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: are talking about. Maroney, You've got a beautiful son and daughter.

862
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: This is his son, this is his wife, gunned down

863
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: on the floor of a dog kennel, and the jury

864
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: is trying the husband father of the victims. These were

865
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: real people with lives in front of them, a loving mother,

866
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: a son, And we're talking about MPH and data and

867
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,959
Speaker 1: the distance between Moselle and Almita, And somehow I feel

868
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: that Maggie and Paul are just getting lost in the sauce. Yeah, Nancy,

869
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 1: can I say something to that? Sure, Chris, the the

870
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: you are a thousand percent on target again. I mean,

871
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: the emotional side of this story for these two victims

872
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: is getting lost. And if we if we really think

873
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: even a little bit deeper in relationship to that nine

874
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: one one call, we can think about why doesn't he

875
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: run to the bodies, you know, have an emotional breakdown,

876
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: have an emotional response. You know what? We hear The

877
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: first thing the officer when they get on scene is

878
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: about a boat accident, and it's almost as if you

879
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: know what is going on. Here comes to the sain

880
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: his head and I want to go back to you, Moroni,

881
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: because I know your children and your family. These are

882
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: his this is his family we're talking about. And you

883
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: know what Chris said, if I could put their pictures

884
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: up again. When you're addicted to drugs, are you so

885
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: out of your mind that your family, your child means

886
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: nothing to you anymore? I'll tell you that the first

887
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: thing you do when you're really addicted to the oxy

888
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: cotton with substance us to sort. The first thing you

889
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: do in the morning, before you see your wife, the kids,

890
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: you make your coffee. You call your dealer because you

891
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: don't want to be sick that day. You call your

892
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: drug source. That's the first thing you do. And I've

893
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: seen it in pregnant patients struggling with heroin. Instead of

894
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: doing what the hospital needs them to do, instead of

895
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: getting in on time, they're chasing cocaine. I guess your

896
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: answer is yes, rewired, You're you're rewired. You're going for

897
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: the dealer. You know um as we as I say,

898
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: your your wife or husband, your son or your daughter,

899
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: all I can think about is my husband and my

900
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: son and my daughter, and the thought of finding them

901
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: that way. It's just very overwhelming, and I don't want

902
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: to lose sight of what this is all about. And

903
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: let me remind everyone on our panel that voluntary use

904
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: of drugs or alcohol is not a defense, no matter

905
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: how much hartpoot Lean wants this jury to feel sorry

906
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: for Alex Murdog. We're going back in the courtroom. Goodbye, friend,