WEBVTT - Are we in the Middle of a Rudeness Epidemic? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.920 Guess what will? What's that? Mango? So? I know Portlandia 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.600 has kind of mocked Portlands and the stereotypes mercilessly, but 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:08.399 can I just tell you about one thing that made 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.280 me fall in love with the city? Yeah, of course, 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.680 what's that? So the first time I was visiting, we 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:14.800 were staying at a friend's place in the city and 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.639 we decided to go downtown and Lizzie is big on 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.120 public transportation, so she made me take the bus. It 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.919 was the super rainy day and gray, but we got 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.400 on and we had this really long bus ride, so 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.040 we watched a lot of people get on and off 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.560 and here's what's amazing to me. Every single person who 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.760 got on the bus thanked the bus driver as they 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:38.159 got off. It like it was really amazing and so civil. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.199 And that day was so gray and everyone could have 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.040 been miserable, but the fact that everyone, like this whole 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.879 group of people one by one, where each telling the 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.479 bus driver thank you for doing his job, I don't know, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.800 it just made me so happy and it made me 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.960 want to thank the bus driver too. But it also 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:55.960 made me wonder, like, why isn't every other place in 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.800 the US like this? Why isn't this just the expected 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.360 behavior across the US? And of course, as you and 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.319 I both know, as full as the world is of 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:08.120 good people were also played with horrible internet commenters and 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:13.040 surly reality show judges and politicians who are anything but decent, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.400 and it makes you wonder is the world getting ruder? 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.760 Do scientists really believe that rudeness spreads like an affection? 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.680 And what can we do to change this tide? And 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:46.600 that's what we're talking about today. Let's dive in a 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.360 their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.440 Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.680 man guest Ticketer and sitting on the soundproof booth sporting 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.480 his what's it say? I'm Bart Simpson. Who the heck 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.760 are you? T? Shirt? That's our pal and producer Christen McNeil. 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.640 That is one rude T shirt. You know, when when 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.720 The Simpsons first came out on the air and that 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.760 shirt came out in fifth grade, kids in my school 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.440 either had to turn their shirts around or put duct 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.280 tape over the word heck and uh, and then the 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.800 shirts got banned. Yeah, I remember parents thinking like these 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.800 kids today and shaking their heads but you know, actually 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.880 that's always been the case. Kids have always been rude, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.600 and parents have always complained about it. And in fact, 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.960 we have the perfect person to chat with about that 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.600 and all things rude, the author of a new book. 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.919 F you very much understanding the culture of rudeness and 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.560 what we can do about it, Danny Wallace. Welcome to 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.560 Part Time Genius. Thank you very much, pleased to be here. So, Danny, 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.760 one of the most amazing things to me about the book, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.880 and it is truly, truly wonderful. I'm just amazed that 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.560 it was inspired by a hot dog. Would you mind 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.760 telling us a little bit about that story? Of course? Um, yes, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.480 it was. It was inspired by by hot dog. I 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.399 like hot dogs. There's no crime in that, um, and 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.400 there was. There was one day where I really fancied 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.040 the hot dog, and my son wanted a hot dog 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.720 as well, and we found a place that sold hot 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.720 dogs advertised, you know, the hot dogs that it was selling. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.160 So so really this should have been very, very easy, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:15.680 and this is as long as the story should ever 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.880 have been. But I went inside to get the hot dog. Again, 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.480 I've done it before. I know what I'm doing. Um, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.720 I go in and I asked for the hot dog. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:26.480 But I don't know if you've ever walked in, it's 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.480 too I don't know, well anywhere really where it just 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.720 feels like the person behind the counter has already taken 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.960 against you somehow, And that's really how it felt. There 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.080 was something in the air, some sort of vibe, and 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.200 she made me pay up front, which I thought was unusual. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.960 But you know, it wasn't just like a fast food thing. 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.920 It was a proper kind of little diner style restaurant 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.960 down by the seaside um. But you know, I did 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:53.960 everything that was required of me, and then I was 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.760 standing waiting for it, and she made us kind of 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.480 stand outside and kind of fifteen minutes passed, and that 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.840 seemed like the right amount of time to pass for 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.440 what should be a very quick meal to make for 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.440 me to go in and ask where it was. She 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.480 kept going, you don't understand how it works, and I 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.120 kept going, well, I do understand how it works. You know, 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:15.880 I had a hotdog, and you give me the hot dog, 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.200 and she keeps she keeps going, they're cooked to order. 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:20.960 And I was like, well, I ordered one and you 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.680 haven't cooked it. You know, I've been to restaurance before that, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.560 that's how every restaurant works. And at one point she 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.120 ended up saying something very insulting, or at least it 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.159 sounded insulting. She she said, you're probably the sort of 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.000 people who'd queue up for forty minutes for fish and chips. Wow, 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.080 I I still be done. If they don't know what 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:46.000 that means. It struck to the very core of me 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.800 um and maybe question who I would I use forty 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:51.520 minutes official chips? I don't know. I don't know worry 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.120 em anymore. The reason I realized that I was kind 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:56.400 of going a bit mad with this and I was 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.000 obsessing over it because for a couple of days, like 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.960 when someone's been truly rude to you and they've broken 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.080 those rules, it's very confusing you and up quite bewildered. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.599 It's why people can't often come up with something witty 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.479 to say in the moment. And because they disrespected you 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.280 or made you feel kind of publicly disrespected, you are 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.440 trying to claw back some of that respect somehow, And 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.200 so it kept going over and over in my head, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.280 and you know, I'll be driving around and they'd be 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.240 like a lull in the conversation between me and my 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.679 wife and me and my son, and then out of nowhere, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.159 I would just immediately go that woman was unbelievable, and 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.039 just start talking about her again. And the next night 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.400 I drove past the diner and it was completely dark 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.960 and it was empty, and I found myself, as a 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.960 grown man, flipping off a diner and with no one 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.720 in it. There was nothing to be gained by doing it, 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.880 apart from my own sort of sanity. And that's when 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.880 I realized, you know, these these rude things that happened 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.200 to us, they they send us temporarily insane, I think, 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.160 and I wanted to find out why. I mean, I 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.440 think one of the amazing things about it is that 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.039 you actually write that rudeness is airborne and the passes 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.400 from person to person like a yarn. And I'd love 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.760 to hear you talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, well, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.200 science has shown that that really rudeness does spread. It 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.000 is kind of contagious, and it kind of spreads throughout 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.920 an office or a school or a workplace or wherever 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.920 um in much the same way as the common cold. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:30.040 So those people who were sitting there, shiny eyed, gleeful, watching, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.960 you know, an altercation between a hot dog less man 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.719 and the keeper of the hot dogs. When they saw 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.200 people being rude to each other without realizing it, they 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.080 will now sort of be infected. It will be much 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.159 easier for them to be rude later on in their day. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.520 And when someone's being directly rude to you, and again 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.680 those unwritten rules kind of have been broken. Um. If 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.200 they've been rude to you, you're going to feel much 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.920 worse in yourself. It can affect um how you were 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.040 lacks after work. You won't be able to switch off 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:03.760 in quite the same way you might be snapp here 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:08.560 with your partner. Your downtime won't be as as downtimey 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.920 as you as you'd like it. Your rest period won't 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.360 be as RESTful as you'd like it. If you snap 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.520 at your partner, they now being infected and they'll then 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.240 take that rudeness elsewhere. Um. But anyone who even just 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.840 witnesses the rudeness will become primed for more rudeness. So, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.320 for example, if you've seen someone you know in the 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.160 line for coffee this morning, be rude to the barista 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.680 even though it had nothing to do with you. Later 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.200 on in the day, because you've experienced that moment, and 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.840 it may have dredged up some kind of you memories 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.680 of rudeness for you, and feelings of being slightly on edge. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.720 You're much more likely to now see rudeness where none 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.880 was intended. So you might get an email which is 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.960 perfectly neutral in tone, and yet you will be more 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:54.040 likely to read sarcasm into it or maybe passive aggression. Um, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.360 and that person is completely oblivious. They just they put 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.160 a smiley there just to be nice. But you're like, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.640 what is this smiley really me? So it kind of 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.320 puts us all on edge even just seeing it. So 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.280 I was recently on a train and I paid extra 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.520 to be on a quiet car, and this person came 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.400 in with their cell phone and just chatted the whole time. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.360 And I just could not ignore the person, and uh, 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.520 personally because they were bragging about themselves continuously, but also 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.360 just because I couldn't avoid listening in. And you actually 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.360 have a section about half of ARDSCA. Can you talk 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.840 a little bit about cell phones and why they're so annoying? Yeah, 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.560 of course, Well, on one level, when we got onto 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:37.319 a train and we're in public space, UM, certainly I understand, Uh, 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.839 you know, my part, my rules. If I got a table, 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.400 I'm not going to spread my stuff all over the table. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.400 I understand I've got a little bit of the table. 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.040 I'm not gonna, you know, shove my legs out right 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:48.800 in front of me, because I understand that person's got 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:54.800 their space. We all have these little instinctive moments of 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.240 respect that we pay to one another so that we 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.680 can all, you know, get along. And when someone stands 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.000 up and starts chatting away loudly on their phone and 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.280 knows that everyone else must be able to hear it, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.680 they're sort of removing themselves from the group that they're saying, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.920 you're a group. You you're all the group, but I'm special. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.480 I'm having my phone call and they have their phone call. 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.040 And why it's so annoying for other people. If you have, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.920 you know, two old ladies sitting, you know, in the 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.800 row behind you and they're just chatting away and laughing, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.080 it's sort of fine because they're they're chatting and you 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.360 can hear the whole conversation. It might be annoying, but 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.680 it's not necessarily rude. Why someone chatting on their phone 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:43.480 is impossible to ignore? Um and is is rude is 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.239 because you can only hear that half of the conversation 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.800 that you're talking about behalf a log um. And the 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.240 human brain, no matter what you're trying to do, it's 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.640 always hungry for a story. It's always trying to solve, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.480 you know, problems, it's trying to work stuff out. So 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.480 even if you're trying your best to ignore this person 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.480 having their chat, your brain is trying to fill in 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.120 the blanks. And and there's also the kind of the 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.360 staccato nature of a conversation. You're trying to get into 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.679 your flow, your rhythm wherever you do. When you're driving 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.800 and someone cuts you up, they disturb your flow. If 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.480 you're on a train and you're reading a book and 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.000 you have to read the same sentence nineteen times because 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.960 of the person having the chat, your flow has been interrupted. 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.720 And we feel that on some level that is always 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:32.319 quite a rude thing. But the random nature of replies 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.600 on a one sided conversation, because you don't know how 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.640 long the other guy is gonna talk for. You know, 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.520 you might do a one word answer, you might you 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.719 might you talk for ten minutes and you'll just here 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.719 a man going hard the whole time. So because it's 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.079 completely unpredictable, it's another reason that we find it impossible 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.680 to ignore and hugely annoying. But the rudeness certainly comes 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.079 from removing yourself from the group and going no one 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.760 here matters. I'm talking to Nigel. He's had a hair transplant. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.880 Stay right there, more with Danny Wallace right after this break. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.880 Welcome back to Part Time Genius. We're talking to Danny Wallace. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.320 You know, one of the most amazing stories in your 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.320 book is about a politician in Colombia who decided to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.400 fight rudeness, and to fight rudeness with mimes of all things, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.160 and I was hoping you could talk a little bit 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.400 about that. Yeah, this is a guy stumbled across named 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:38.480 Anthonys Marcus who is either the craziest politician in the 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.600 world or some kind of genius. And I think he's 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.680 some kind of genius because he takes problems and he's 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.199 sort of he comes up with what seem on paper 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:53.720 to be insane ideas, insane solutions, and yet they seem 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.480 to work. And this is a guy who had been 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.800 kind of in charge like the chancellor thing or directorally university. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.199 At Bogata University, Um, and there was like there was 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.200 kind of some student unrest one day and there were 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.240 hundreds and hund of the students all shouting, and he 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:09.800 was on the stage and he was trying to calm 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.679 them down, and they would not be calm him. They 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.920 would not listen, they would not give him the time 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.679 of day, and no matter what he did on that microphone, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.080 they wouldn't shut up. And so he very calmly walked 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.520 to the front of the stage, undid his belt, turned around, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.440 pulled down his trousers, and showed the world his ass, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.440 at which point every student was kind of silent and 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.480 slacked George. No one knew why he was doing this. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.120 Had he gone mad, you know? Was he protesting their 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.400 rudeness or was he being rude himself? And it was 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.679 a massive scandal and every sort of newspaper was talking 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.280 about it. Everyone was disgusted at his behavior. How could 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.480 he act that way? It was so rude, Um, And 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.240 he ended up having to leave his job. But because 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.360 he had done this current crazy thing, he was now 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.199 in the public kind of consciousness. So when he then 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.080 ran for there at a time when Bogutar was seen 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:10.040 as pretty much the most um chaotic, let's stay city 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.240 in the world, and there was corruption left right and center. 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.720 They felt that this was a guy they could trust. 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.679 So he was, you know, put into power. But crucially, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.360 because he didn't owe anyone any favors, he could get 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.720 rid of everyone that he felt was potentially corrupt and 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.560 instead bring in a bunch of his friends, all of 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.520 whom had crazy ideas like him. And they looked at 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.280 the city and they saw what was going on, and 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.800 they saw that people were driving in considerately, They were 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.720 mounting the sidewalks, they were jaywalking left right and center. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.800 They were being incredibly loud when when they shouldn't have been, 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.640 you know, um, And he just thought, right, what do 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.720 we do here? And just as you say, he did 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.680 something a bit crazy, which was that he got rid 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.320 of the vast majority of the notoriously corrupt traffic police 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:05.600 and he replaced them with minds, so actual minds. So 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.760 people dressed in black, the traditional white gloves, their faces 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.520 painted white. And he just unleashed this army of minds 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.720 onto the streets and said, find rude behavior, find bad behavior, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.960 and call it out. So if you were someone who 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.600 was saying jaywalking and there was traffic. You know, you're 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.400 putting people in danger and you're doing what you shouldn't 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.400 be doing. You might look behind you and find five 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.640 or six mins who are copying you and mocking your walk, 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.160 completely in front of the whole world, and it would 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.720 make you think twice about doing that again. Or if 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.680 you'd part your car somewhere where you weren't allowed to 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.760 park your car, you might suddenly find loads and loads 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.600 of minds surrounding your car, just pointing at you and 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:51.040 shaking their heads. And what it did was it made 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.400 people accountable for their actions, but it also showed everybody 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.920 else that, look, there's people on your side. So these 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.680 rude people they're not being because you know, we're just 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.400 letting them anymore. They're breaking the rules, and we are 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.360 sort of shaming them, but in a playful but powerful way. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.600 And the public started to join in, and he had 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.280 more and more schemes that didn't just involve minds. I 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.160 mentioned people being loud. You know, there might be playing 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.840 there I guess back then their boom boxes and their 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.880 disco music or whatever it was about. Then, you know, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.240 loudly on the train, and suddenly a bunch of fellows 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.800 dressed up as benedicting monks would get on um, you 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.760 know and just put their fingers to their lips just 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.080 to sort of highlights you know, their their their vow 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.120 of silence and how you were impinging upon it. So 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.680 there's all these kind of it was almost like almost 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.080 like kind of weird hidden camera moments, except no one 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.160 was really filming it. It was just there to show 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.400 the public. Look, we understand there's a way to behave 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.200 and we're going to help you, and we're gonna puncture 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.880 the kind of the aggression underneath it that it normally 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.360 goes to and and we're going to show that that 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.720 you've got people on your side. And it worked to 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.920 an astounding degree. You know, even homicides went down, um, 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.080 just thanks to a series of kind of quite playful 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.960 things and and and crucially um people offered to pay 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.920 more tax just because the mayor said, listen to be 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.920 really lovely if you would offer to pay more tax. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.280 So it just showed that people were hungry for a 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.880 non rude world. But it felt like that chance had 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.360 been lost at a time when Bogitar had gone crazy, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.680 and it just took one crazy guy to turn this around. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.920 That's really such an incredible story. So I do want 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.640 to get back to a little bit of how rudeness 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.480 affects us. And I know in one part you talk 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.600 about how, um, rudeness can sort of curb people's creativity, 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.640 But I was also curious how rudeness can actually be 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.960 dangerous in a medical context. When you talk a little 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.680 bit about that. Yeah, of course, UM, well, when someone 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.040 has been unnecessarily rude to you, UM, it really does 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.719 affect your brain, affects the frontal loads, which is responi 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.520 was responsible for kind of working memory and whatever the 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.720 task at hand is um, And studies were done that 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.240 showed that, yes, absolutely, it doesn't make people less creative. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.960 So people were kind of surprised by rudeness um, and 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.200 then set simple tasks. They didn't realize that the rudeness 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.040 was kind of part of it, so it would happen 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.640 on the way into the experiment. But the people who 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:33.600 had experienced rudeness found themselves far less able to, for example, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.679 come up with very simple anagrams or creative uses for 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.040 a brick that was my favorite. Um. So they just 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.280 couldn't come up with as many ideas as other people could. 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.400 The people who hadn't experienced any rudeness whatsoever. And it's 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.840 been sort of shown time and time again just how 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.600 much this affects us. I mean, there were studies done, 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.080 I think in the seventies that showed that even just 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.880 a loud noise changes we are and how much empathy 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.040 we have. So if you had an old woman at 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.280 the top of some stairs and to have shopping bag 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.800 is broken and all her shopping is tumbling down the 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.679 stairs and oranges and tin cans, but our instinct is 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.000 to run to her and to help her. But the 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.840 science has shown that if someone nearby, and this is 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.840 the crazy bit, if someone nearby is doing some gardening 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.439 and has quite a lowed lawnmower, it affects us in 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.080 such a way that we are much less likely to 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.480 go and run to that woman's aid, because part of 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.480 our brain is dealing with what's going on over here. 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.600 So it's much the same when it comes to rudeness. 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.000 Part of your brain is coping with that. And where 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.399 it becomes very dangerous isn't when you're like a rioter 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.240 who hasn't been served the hot dog. It's much more 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.320 when you have a position of you know, real authority 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.360 or responsibility over other people's lives. So there were studies 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.600 done in Tel Aviv with a bunch of surgeons, three 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.160 groups of surgeons, and one of the groups in particular 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.960 was told that while they were doing their simulated surgery 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.159 on a on a on an infant um, they were 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.520 going to be observed by a medical professional from America. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:15.720 And when that medical professional came over on Skype to 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.119 say hello to them, he was just very rude. He 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.920 was very dismissive. He said he had no real respect 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.040 for the medicinal community in the in Tel Aviv, and 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.720 that you know, he wishes them well. Nonetheless, and when 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.200 they went and did their surgery um, it was shown 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.440 afterwards by an independent group that that team, in particular, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:40.160 those bunch of surgeons who had experienced rudeness, became less 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:45.159 effective at the surgery they were doing. They didn't communicate well, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.080 they picked up the wrong instruments. They would become fixated 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.080 on the original diagnosis, so that if something changed that 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.080 was really obvious, they would kind of ignore it because 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.359 they couldn't deal with it at that time. They didn't 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:02.399 resascitate properly, and essentially, the infant in the simulation would 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.639 have died had it been an actual of surgery. So 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.000 that's when you start to see that, you know, rudeness 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.480 which cuts to the very core of who we are 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.960 and makes us feel disrespected and confuses us and bewilders 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:20.879 us in those situations, and that's when big accidents can happen, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.600 medical errors can happen. It's been shown that truck drivers 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:29.400 with rude dispatches miss more stop science. Um so anyone, 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.840 you know, if you have an airline pilot, you know, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.280 at least when they've had a drink, you know, you 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.160 can you can sort of see their glassy eyes or 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.040 see them sway around. But there's there are no clues 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.639 when it comes to rudeness and what someone may have 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.560 just experienced. And and that's when when I was writing 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.960 the book, I started to realize just how dark this 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.320 can kind of get. Because we've always found rudeness to 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.600 be quite amusing and we love, you know, rude people 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.800 in sitcoms, whether it's Basil Faulty or the Supernancy or whatever, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.360 and we love changing stories, you know, about rudeness, but 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.879 we don't really appreciate that it is genuinely a silent killer. 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.720 If if someone's been rude to a doctor in the morning, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.960 it can affect the next five patients. So suddenly you 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:16.479 start to see how it can affect all of us. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.560 And when you've got the world's rudist man in the 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.680 in the world's most powerful position, um, then you start 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.080 to have problems. Yeah, it's a well, those are all 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.080 scary situations. Though I don't think you should minimize the 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.320 hot dog thing. I still can't get over that you 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.240 didn't get a hot dog for an hour in a minute, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.160 but it will stay with you for quite some time 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.919 gractually of that day. You know. There there is a 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.160