1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb. Today is Saturday, So once again 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: we venture into the vault to finish up our two 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: parter on strange Ice. This episode originally published two one, 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Let's dive right in. 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 8 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: name is Robert. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 3: Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 3: part two of our look at Strange Ice. Now, initially 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: we didn't know this was going to be a two 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 3: part series. Last time, we looked at odd ice formations 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: that can occur on Earth, such as the main one 14 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 3: I looked at was this thing called nieves penitentes or 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: just penitentes, which are these very strange sort of blades 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 3: or spikes or pinnacles of ice that you can sometimes 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 3: find in high mountain ranges, especially in the dry Andies. 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 3: And we looked at a historical anecdote of Charles Darwin 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 3: trekking across the Andes and coming across a field of 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: these things, one that had a horse frozen inside it. 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: But we also looked at ice formations such as ball ice, 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: candle ice, rotten ice, and a lot of other creepy, interesting, 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: physically counterintuitive ways that ice can form or decompose. And 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: so we're coming back today to talk some more about 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 3: strange ice. 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess this episode's kind of a release valve 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: from the last episode. There were a number of threads 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: that had come up in our research that we just 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: had to continue to pursue. So some of these are 30 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: definitely still going to deal with direct examples of ice 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: manifesting in a way that we might think of as weird, 32 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: behaving in a way that some people might think of 33 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: as weird. But we'll also get into some some I 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: thought very fascinating and haunting folk traditions concerning the ice. 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 3: All right, what have you got, Rob. 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: So in the last episode we discussed mostly in passing 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the dangers of ice, specifically coastal sea ice and any 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: sort of icy environment that humans will attempt to traverse 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: or in any way exploit for hunting, fishing, recreation, scientific purposes. Specifically, 40 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: thinking about rotten ice, you know, the idea that it's 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: just not safe to venture upon. And I imagine we 42 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: have plenty of listeners out there who grew up in 43 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: places with icy environments who can attest to the dangers 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: of ice that. I mean, there's just so many ways 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: that it can potentially be dangerous. There's, of course, you 46 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: know the fact that ice can be slippery, You can fall, 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: and if you fall on ice, it is hard, and 48 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: you know that can hurt you as well. Then you 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: get into areas where ice may give way, It may 50 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: plunge us into freezing water, It may plunge us into 51 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: hollow areas where the water is drained out, and so forth. 52 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: There are so many ways that ice can pose a danger. 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: Ice can also just be physically heavy as well. 54 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the danger of plunging through ice into a hazard 55 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: below is not only the case on say like a 56 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: frozen pond or lake or something. But think about what 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: happened to that horse that Charles Darwin came across. We 58 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: don't know, but he speculated, well, maybe when the snow 59 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: was packed higher, it somehow like fell into a hole 60 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: or crevasse in the ice and then and then died 61 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: like that, and then the rest of it sublimated away 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: around it. 63 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't even have to have really extreme 64 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: environments for potentially dangerous examples of this from occurring. Like 65 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I remember as a kid encountering situations where you'd have 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: like a bog or you know, a marshy area, and 67 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: you would have a situation where you would have this 68 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: sort of ice cap on top, and I guess like 69 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: the water drained down during the melting, and so you'd 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: have this this thin layer of ice on and you 71 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: could fall down through it potentially or climb down through 72 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: it and play in it as a child, And so yeah, 73 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: I guess that's one of the things that we'll be 74 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: getting into here, is like ice creates unique environments that, 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: especially to a child, can be as intriguing as they 76 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: are potentially hazardous. 77 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: I'm just thinking now about little rob climbing down through 78 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: the ice to play in the bog. Yeah. 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was part of my childhood. So yeah, I 80 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: think it should come as no surprise that there are 81 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: traditional tales and folk traditions seemingly meant to keep children 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: away from ice, Because again, ice is great fun, children 83 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: are curious, and since time out of Mind parents have 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: invented and passed down tales of perhaps more embodied threats 85 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: monsters to scare children away from potentially dangerous environments. Now 86 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: this may ring a bell because we discussed one of 87 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: these on the podcast a few years back. This would 88 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: be Jenny green Teeth, a river hag of English folklore, 89 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: understood as a kind of nursery boogie to keep children 90 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: away from the water's edge, bogie rather not boogie. 91 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think Jenny could be used to warn children 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 3: of the dangers of water in multiple environments. But the 93 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: one that I remember being really salient was like in 94 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: certain regions of England, there might be places where there 95 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: were holes or pits in the ground, maybe marl pits 96 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 3: or something like that, that had been hollowed out and 97 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 3: then filled in with water. And sometimes this water would 98 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: have coverings of like algae or plant matter or something 99 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 3: on top of it that would just make it look 100 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 3: very green, make it look like it was just you know, 101 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 3: a continuation of the grass almost yeah. 102 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, look to your point. You know, 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: once you have a folk creation like this, it can 104 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: be deployed in various ways. It can sort of take 105 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: on different meanings and different stressors in different stories. But 106 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: there are many variations on this theme in global traditions 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: where there's some sort of supernatural being it is associated 108 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: with the water and the dangers of the water, especially 109 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: for young children. The Japanese Kappa is one that we've 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: also discussed in the past. This sometimes takes on these connotations, 111 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: and then of course this is another thing we're discussed 112 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: in the show before. There's of course the nineteen seventy 113 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: three British public information film Lonely Water, also known as 114 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: the Spirit of Dark and Lonely Water, featuring the voice 115 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: of Donald Pleasance. This very much carries on the tradition here, 116 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: and it's often discussed as something that traumatized an entire 117 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: generation of British children. 118 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: It sounds like it worked. I mean, are you going 119 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: to go play in the flooded mind pits now? 120 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? You know. It's a complicated topic though, the use 121 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: of boogiemen and boogie women, I guess to frightened children. 122 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: I remember reading about some of the works of Francisco 123 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: Goya in which he was criticizing this and and like 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: tying in this whole idea that like, by having parents 125 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: that invoke supernatural threats to keep children in line, they're 126 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: not only potentially protecting their child from these threats, but 127 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: they're also instilling supernatural belief at an early age that 128 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: then you know, matures and becomes these other modes of 129 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: supernatural belief that to some may be seen as more 130 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: harmful in their adulthood. 131 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: So, like his idea is, if you teach a child 132 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 3: to fear spectral dangers, even if it's useful in keeping 133 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: them away from a real physical danger in childhood, maybe 134 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 3: they just grow up to continue to project spectral dangers 135 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: that are not necessary. 136 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that's the argument. Though. Of course this 137 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: is a complicated issue, so you know, obviously it's there 138 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: are a lot of a lot of ins and outs here, 139 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: so I don't want to simplify it too much. But 140 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about, like what is mean when 141 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: you introduce something like this? What does it mean when 142 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: you introduces something that's not even tied to scaring children 143 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: so much, like something like a Santa Claus or Easter bunny? 144 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: You know what effect does that have? And of course 145 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: you know a lot has been written and continues to 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: be written and said about this. So anyway, given all 147 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: of this, it again should comes no surprise that there 148 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: are traditions that involve creating supernatural entities or monstrous entities 149 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: that are associated with the dangers of ice and keeping 150 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: children away from the ice. So I want to turn 151 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: to a couple of these from Native American First Nations traditions. 152 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: The first of these is the Abo dampkin. This. I 153 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: was reading about this in the Dictionary of Native American 154 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: Mythology by Sam D. Gill and Irene F. Sullivan. This 155 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: is apparently an entity in the traditions of the Malaset 156 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: and Passimaquadi people in what is now the Canadian province 157 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: of New Brunswick and the US state of Maine. The 158 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: authors here describe it as a boogie monster with long 159 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: hair and huge teeth. Quote. Fear of him keeps small 160 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: children from straying on thin, newly frozen ice in the 161 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: winter and unguarded beaches in the summer. 162 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 3: Oh so is this creature in the water? 163 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I was looking for more information on this 164 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: and according to Native languages as Native hyphen Languages dot org, 165 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: it is also sometimes sometimes described as a fanged sea serpent, 166 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: sometimes with like long red hair, and some accounts say 167 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: that it might have once been a human woman and 168 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: was transformed into this state. And despite the fact that 169 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: some Western interpretations apparently have classified this is a kind 170 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: of vampire. It is actually better thought of as a 171 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,239 Speaker 1: sea monster. So yeah, this would be something that dwells 172 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: within the water. Now. Another one that I was reading 173 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: about this one is also a number of review may 174 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: be familiar with, is the Qualipeluit. This is an entity 175 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: in the traditions of the Inuit, and there's an excellent 176 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: ride up about it on the Kikwitani Inuit Association's Inuit 177 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: Myths and Legends website. That's Inuit Myths dot Com, which 178 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: features some just haunting artwork and also text that is 179 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: available in both English and Inuit. Joe I included one 180 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: of these images from the website here that is just 181 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:34,599 Speaker 1: absolutely terrifying. 182 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, extremely Oh no, and it's like snatching a baby. 183 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: That's what they do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The website describes 184 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: them as scaly marine humanoids that reek of sulfur, and yeah, 185 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: they snatch children. They prey on children who play alone 186 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: on the beach or get too close to breaking ice. 187 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: They may also feature pouches on their back to stuff 188 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: children in. I couldn't tell. It seemed ambiguous based on 189 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: the entry and based on the illustrations. There are a 190 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: couple of additional illustrations on the website whether this pouch 191 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: is in their clothing or if this is a pouch 192 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: in their body. Here's a haunting excerpt from the inuitens 193 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: dot com website quote. Usually the qualipi luit jump out 194 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: of the water and grab children without any warning. Sometimes, however, 195 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: you can hear them knocking under the ice. Some elders 196 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: have said that if the ocean begins to become wavy 197 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: in an area, or steam begins to rise from the ocean, 198 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: a qualipiluit might be hiding underneath the water. 199 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 3: This one is so scary. 200 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love the idea that of one 201 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: of these creatures underneath the ice, like tapping or knocking 202 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: at it, especially. 203 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 3: Especially because if you ever do have experiences out on 204 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 3: ice over a frozen body of water, you can hear 205 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: strange sounds emanating from below. 206 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: That's right, right, And one of the things we'll get 207 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: into your hair in a bit is things that can 208 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: suddenly occur that also have sounds regarding the ice, especially 209 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: the ice close to the shore. So the direct line 210 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: was not made between these two topics and the material 211 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: I was looking at, But I can't help but think 212 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: about it now that I've researched it a little bit. 213 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: But anyway, I highly recommend inuitmths dot com, the website 214 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: futures profiles, and a handful of other mythological beings and creatures, 215 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: including the two Knit who I mentioned in a recent 216 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: Monster Fact episode. Wow. All right, so I mentioned the 217 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: ice making sounds. So I want to move on now 218 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: to the topic of what is known as ice shove. Now, 219 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: this is more of a clear example of weird ice, 220 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: or rather ice behaving in a way that many myths 221 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: might think of as weird. Though for a number of 222 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: you out there, ice shove is just a reality, potential 223 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: reality of the winter months. I was reading about this 224 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: in Barry Lopez's Arctic Dreams, and he mentions there's a 225 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: whole passage where he's talking about like long stillness broken 226 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: by sudden moves as sort of a hallmark of Arctic landscapes, 227 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: and he ties this also into just like a sense 228 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: of patience that is also that he observed as being 229 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: present in native populations and indigenous peoples. But he cites 230 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: an example of this ice shove concerning the breaking of 231 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: both river ice and sea ice, and for river ice. 232 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: Lopez describes it as follows, quote pistol reports of cracking 233 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: on the river, and then the sound of breaking branches 234 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: and the whining pop of a falling tree. Is the 235 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: careening blocks of ice gouge the river banks. And he 236 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: describes the sea ice variation as follows quote Suddenly, in 237 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: the middle of winter and without warning, a huge piece 238 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: of sea ice surges hundreds of feet inland like something alive, 239 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: and he cites the inopiat word ivu. I hope I'm 240 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: pronouncing that right. My apologies for any mispronunciations on these terms. 241 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: And it is also as ice shove. I've also seen 242 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: it referred to as ice tsunamis, along with a number 243 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: of other English names. Ice shoves are generally classified as 244 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: onshore ice pushes caused by wind currents, changes in temperature, 245 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: and other causes. As meteorologist Matthew Capucci explained it in 246 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: a twenty twenty Washington Post article, there are a lot 247 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: of explainers out these out there that often pop up 248 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: when exceptional or notable examples of ice shoves occur, and 249 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: this I believe is one of those cases. This meteorologists 250 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: pointed out that as the wind blows over a long 251 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: sheet of ice, it can give that sheet of ice 252 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: enough momentum that it can't stop when pushed against the shore. Instead, 253 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: it fragments, and then the fragments pile up in heaps 254 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: of shattered ice on the coast. Conditions have to be 255 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: just right. The ice has to be thin enough, it 256 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: has to be brittle enough, and it generally only piles 257 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: up a few feet onto the shore. But there are 258 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: of course exceptional examples where things get much higher, or 259 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: they go up the shore a little bit more. Apparently 260 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: some places are more ideal for it. I saw Lake 261 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: Erie pointed out in this article due to its length 262 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: and particular orientation. And again there's some pretty exceptional examples. 263 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: In June of twenty eleven, along the Chuck Chisea coast 264 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: in Alaska, ice shove piled up fifteen feet, and I've 265 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: seen it record heights as high as like forty feet 266 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: in some cases. So that's like a forty foot wall 267 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: of ice fragments piling up along the coast. 268 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 3: Yikes. 269 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And Lopez's ice shove measurements here Seaman keeping with 270 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: the measurements I'm seeing in twenty twenty and ice shove 271 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: on Lake Winnebago was, according to NBC twenty six out 272 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: of Northeastern Wisconsin quote, a couple of hundred feet long 273 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: and taller than the supper club itself. What does that 274 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: quote mean? I'm taking it out of context. The article 275 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: had this a foot of the ice shove piled up 276 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: next to Jim and Linda's Lake Shore supper club in 277 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: the town of Pipe. Appears to be like a single 278 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: floor building. But still that is a lot of ice. 279 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Like that's a huge wall of moving ice or I 280 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: mean it's no longer moving, but you know, still it 281 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: has moved up, it has advanced in a way that 282 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: is concerning. 283 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: The supper club is threatened. They're gonna get ice in 284 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 3: their hot dish. 285 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: Oh man. Wow. 286 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 3: So I looked up a few pictures of this, and 287 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 3: it is alarming because, yeah, you can see cases where 288 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: I guess these are lakeside houses where the ice is 289 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: just shoved right up against the house like you're saying, 290 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: happen to the supper club here, and in some cases 291 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 3: shoved into the house and apparently causes damage, like you know, 292 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: busts the wall or something. 293 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I you know, I guess It's the 294 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of thing where you had observed it and you 295 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: knew that it can kind of occur. Suddenly you you 296 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: might have that in your mind when can try to 297 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: convince the children not to play too close to the 298 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: ice sometimes, though it also seems like a rare it's 299 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: not so regular in occurrence that it really would happen 300 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: all of the time. And coming back to our point earlier, 301 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: there are a number of other more common things that 302 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: could be dangerous about the ice and the ice at 303 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: the edge of the coast. Or of course, even when 304 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: the ice is melted like the water's edge can still 305 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: be dangerous, especially to a young child. 306 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I mean there's plenty of danger just from 307 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: falling in. 308 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, another interesting ice related phenomena I wanted to 309 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: talk about here. There's less to this, and this one 310 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: will be kind of quick, I guess, but I ran 311 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: across this idea of ice blink. It's not so much 312 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: a property of the ice itself, but rather an optical interaction. 313 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: It's essentially a glare in the sky over an ice field, 314 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: though not to be confused with various other various actual 315 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: forms of mirages, such as the fata Morgana, which we've 316 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: discussed in the show before. These are also found in 317 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: the Arctic, and there's an entire chapter in Lopez's book 318 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: Arctic Dreams where he talks about this, about the Northern 319 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: lights and so forth. But basically, ice blink is just 320 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: the bright white reflection in the clouds above an expanse 321 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: of ice. So if you're at sea in the Arctic 322 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: and you see ice blink in the distance and you 323 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: know what you're looking at for and looking at, of 324 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: course you can navigate by it, knowing that this means 325 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: that there's likely a large expanse of ice in that direction. Likewise, 326 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: the opposite is true with water sky. So if you're 327 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: on a great expanse of ice and the overcast sky 328 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: is bright with reflected light, you might see a dark 329 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: patch of sky in the distance that indicates a body 330 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: of open water beneath it. So in other words, it's 331 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: you know, it's the presence of dark clouds over an 332 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: area of open water in a region that is otherwise frozen. 333 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: And this this is you know, these are signs that 334 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: indigenous peoples would have known about and used to navigate, 335 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: and and techniques that would then would have been adopted 336 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: by individuals exploring from other parts of the world. It 337 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: reminds me of some of some of what we discussed 338 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: in our episodes about Pacific navigation and how there are 339 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: signs that the informed mind could look for in the 340 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,479 Speaker 1: sky that would indicate the presence of an island. 341 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So listeners, if you haven't heard, we 342 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: did a series of while back on yeah, techniques of 343 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 3: navigation used by Pacific island peoples to make long sea 344 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 3: voyages without modern instruments and stuff like that, and it's 345 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: amazing how much information you can actually get from things 346 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: like the stars, sea currents, birds and things like that 347 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 3: that the untrained eye would never understand to interpret as 348 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 3: relevant information about where the position of an island was 349 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 3: relative to you. But that was truly one of the 350 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 3: most mind blowing series I think we've ever done, because 351 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: it just opened my eyes to the fact that there 352 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: is so much information in the world that can be 353 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: exploited if you know what to look for, and to 354 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 3: a person who doesn't know what to look for, it's 355 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 3: completely invisible. You'd have no idea that it corresponded to 356 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: any kind of navigationally relevant facts. 357 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, it's such a fascinating topic. 358 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: And anyway, yeah, this is another thing like that. I 359 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: never would have thought of this, but this is very 360 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 3: interesting navigating by the reflection of the surface color of 361 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 3: a landscape over the horizon as it reflects on the 362 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 3: clouds in the sky. 363 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, because to the untrained eye, you would just think, O, 364 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: dark cloud in the distance. There's a white clouds in 365 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: the distance. But yeah, to know what it means, we 366 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: can give you vital information about where you're going. 367 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 3: Now, speaking of the color of ice and of sea ice, 368 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 3: this brings me to something I wanted to talk about today, 369 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 3: which is the color of icebergs. I was thinking about 370 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 3: how most icebergs of court, most icebergs and sea ice 371 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 3: and ice sheets you see are basically white in color. 372 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 3: But occasionally I will see photos of icebergs that have 373 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: streaks or whole surfaces that are other colors, maybe blue 374 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 3: icebergs that look very beautiful and strange, and I wonder 375 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: what makes the difference there, So I looked into this 376 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 3: a little bit. Now, most icebergs are indeed white in color, 377 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 3: but of course sometimes icebergs of other colors can be found, apparently, 378 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: especially coming off of Antarctica, and we can talk about 379 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: reasons for that. But the white, relatively opaque surface of 380 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 3: a common iceberg is caused by how ice accumulates, which 381 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: is by adding layers of snow. In most cases, so 382 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: icebergs typically begin as part of a glacier or a 383 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 3: polar ice sheet, which eventually breaks off in pieces and 384 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 3: floats away in the ocean. So it originally formed along 385 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 3: with the rest of the glacier. And the way that 386 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 3: forms is snow falls down from the sky, it piles up, 387 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 3: it gets compressed, and if it doesn't melt seasonally, more 388 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 3: snow falls on top of it and just keeps piling 389 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 3: up and getting more and more compressed until it forms 390 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 3: this solid chunk or sheet of ice. This process can 391 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 3: become cumulative over many snowfalls, many seasons, many years, and 392 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 3: eventually it forms this glacier, and then a piece of 393 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 3: this glacier or ice sheet can break off and float 394 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 3: away in the water. So what determines the difference in color, Well, 395 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 3: when you see a white iceberg, what you're seeing there, 396 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 3: apparently is the relatively uncompressed upper or outer layers of 397 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 3: the snowpack that is forming the ice on top of 398 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 3: it that relatively uncompressed snow contains lots of little imperfections 399 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: like air bubbles especially, and just lots of little reflective 400 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: surfaces within the relatively low density outer layers, and these 401 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: little imperfections and air bubbles and things tend to scatter light. 402 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: They reflect all frequencies of light equally, and of course 403 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: when you combine all colors of light, you get white light, 404 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 3: so that light bounces off and it appears white to 405 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 3: our eyes. But when you're making a glacier, as each 406 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 3: layer of ice becomes more deeply buried in a glacier 407 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 3: or iceberg, it gets pressed harder by the layers above. 408 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 3: Some new snowfalls, the ice load above it becomes heavier, 409 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: and the imperfection tend to get squeezed out, like air 410 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 3: bubbles get compressed and removed. The ice crystals that were 411 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 3: originally snowflakes get squeezed and they form larger crystals of 412 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 3: dense ice. So this dens or more compressed ice does 413 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 3: not reflect all frequencies of light equally. Instead, it starts 414 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: to behave in a different way. It absorbs some wavelengths, 415 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 3: especially longer wavelengths toward the red end of the spectrum 416 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 3: colors like red, orange, and yellow, whereas shorter wavelengths on 417 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: the green, blue, indigo, violet into the spectrum are less 418 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 3: likely to be absorbed and more likely to bounce back out. 419 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 3: So if you see an iceberg that looks opaque white 420 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 3: on the outside, it is probably covered with snow or 421 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 3: uncompressed surface ice, or ice that has been weathered and 422 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 3: scratched up in some way. If you see an iceberg 423 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 3: that looks a more cloudy blue, you're probably seeing the exposed, 424 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 3: compressed layers of ice from an older glacier or from 425 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: deep in inside the glacier formation. And sometimes icebergs also 426 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: look blue and a bit more translucenter even transparent when 427 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: they somehow capsize in the water, bringing up the smoother 428 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: blue portion that was once under the waterline. And there 429 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 3: are also some other formation methods for blue spectrum and 430 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 3: translucent bergs, and frankly, with these they look not only beautiful, 431 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: but downright shocking. Rob I've attached a couple of examples 432 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: for you to look at here, and it's almost beyond words. 433 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, this looks like a potential fragment of an amazing 434 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: airbrush mural on the side of a Van from the 435 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties, that it is somehow ended up 436 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: in the Arctic. It's like it has that much. It's 437 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: like marbled looking as well, like it's just amazing. 438 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like held in the hand of an 439 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 3: airbrush wizard. I think, I don't know, breathing smoke on 440 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 3: it or something. 441 00:25:59,160 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 442 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 3: Now, to see ice really looking blue, you don't actually 443 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 3: have to look for an iceberg floating in the water 444 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 3: that has flipped over. Somehow. You can see this, for example, 445 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 3: in cracks and crevasses, in ice sheets and glaciers. I 446 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 3: dug up some pictures for you to look at here, Rob, 447 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: but if you look this up at home, you can 448 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 3: see it for yourself. Look up like glacier crevasse. Often 449 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 3: the way it will appear is that the top layer 450 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 3: is opaque white like we're used to seeing. You know, 451 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: where the snow has been piled on. But if you're 452 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 3: able to look down into the crack, you will see 453 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 3: progressively bluer and bluer shades, like the light coming out 454 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 3: is a deeper blue the deeper you go down. And 455 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 3: again this is a result of that ice being more compressed. 456 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: And the blue can look just quite dark to like 457 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: to the untrained eye, you would almost think artificially blue. Yeah, like, 458 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: what happened to this glacier? What kind of toilet water 459 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: was transformed into this glacier? Now? 460 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: I was reading about this in an article for Scientific 461 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 3: American by Catherine Wright called icebergs can be green, black, striped, 462 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 3: or even rainbow. And one of the things this article 463 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 3: mentions is it cites an expert named Daniella Janssen who 464 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 3: is a geophysicist at the Alfred Wegner Institute for Polar 465 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 3: and Marine Research in Germany, and this researcher talks about 466 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: a different iceberg formation process, which is the direct freezing 467 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 3: of sea water leading to the creation of marine ice. So, 468 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: according to Jansen, this kind of ice can build up 469 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: underneath ice shelves, and an ice shelf is where part 470 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 3: of a land based glacier extends past dry land and 471 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 3: juts out over the sea, So it's like a shelf 472 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 3: over the water. And under the ice shelves of Antarctica, 473 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: actual frozen seawater can agglomerate into formations that can eventually 474 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 3: become icebergs. Whereas the snow that falls layer by layer 475 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: and accumulates into a glacier on land is mostly pure water. 476 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 3: Ice that accumulates by the freezing of sea water, which 477 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 3: is more rare, comes with a lot of stuff in it. 478 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: So because it's seawater, right, so it can have mineral 479 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 3: dust and just you know, grains of rocks and various 480 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 3: kinds of minerals that can bring different colors to a 481 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: resulting iceberg that comes from the freezing of the seawater. 482 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 3: Maybe it has a lot of iron particles in it, 483 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: or maybe it has black looking you know, volcanic lava minerals. 484 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: It can also have a lot of dead stuff in it, 485 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 3: dead or living organic matter. And apparently marine ice that 486 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 3: forms this way out of seawater with a lot of 487 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 3: dead cells from organic matter can tend to be yellow 488 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 3: or green in color. And so if you're ever seeing 489 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 3: yellow or green icebergs, especially coming from around Antarctica, because 490 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 3: these types of marine ice iceberg, they tend to form 491 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 3: only in very cold conditions because again they have to 492 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: be formed out of seawater. Seawater, having greater salt content, 493 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: is harder to freeze than fresh water. So basically all 494 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: of this like multicolored ice made out of seawater only 495 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 3: forms around Antarctica. Anything from the Arctic North will typically 496 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 3: be white or blue. This marine ice that forms around 497 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 3: Antarctica sometimes has these like gross amazing you know, like 498 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: green jade or yellow death colors, and a lot of 499 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: this tends to be organic contaminants. Meanwhile, marine ice that 500 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 3: forms underneath these ice shelves but doesn't have much in 501 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 3: the way of contaminants tends to be very translucent or 502 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 3: even almost transparent, appearing you can see deep into it. 503 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 3: This is where you get these these strange looking bergs 504 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 3: that are almost as clear as glass and a very 505 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 3: dark color, almost a deep blue or even a black. 506 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: You can also get striped icebergs, and this happens when 507 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: you have an ice shelf hanging out over the ocean 508 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: and cracks form along the submerged portion, and these areas 509 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 3: can flood with seawater, forming stripes of different colors and 510 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 3: opacity than the surrounding ice. So maybe you've got some 511 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 3: ice that's you know, the regular sort of blue ice, 512 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 3: and then it fills in with some marine ice from 513 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 3: seawater that had a bunch of dead organic matter in it, 514 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 3: so it might have like stripes of yellow or stripes 515 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 3: of green. But I want to move on to another 516 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: iceberg related topic, which is icebergs beyond Earth. So you 517 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 3: might kind of wonder, well, how could that even be possible, 518 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: because we know that Earth is the only planet in 519 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 3: the Solar System with liquid water oceans on the surface. 520 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: Other planets may have had them long ago in the past, 521 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 3: but not today. We do know that there are some 522 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 3: some other objects, some moons in the Solar System that 523 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: have liquid oceans underneath the surface, like Jupiter's moon Europa. 524 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: But there is one other object in the Solar System 525 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 3: that does have liquid seas and lakes and rivers on 526 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 3: its surface, though they are not made out of water. 527 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 3: That space object is Saturn's moon Titan, which is Saturn's 528 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 3: largest moon, the second largest moon in the whole Solar 529 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: System after Jupiter's Ganymede, and the only moon in the 530 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 3: Solar System with a dense atmosphere, which is made mostly 531 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 3: of nitrogen and is in fact extremely thick. The atmospheric 532 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 3: pressure on the surface of Titan is about fifty or 533 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 3: sixty percent greater than the pressure at sea level on Earth. 534 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 3: So one comparison I've come across is that just standing 535 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 3: in the air on the surface of Titan would feel 536 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 3: kind of like it would be a level of pressure 537 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 3: similar to being fifteen meters or fifty feet underwater on Earth. 538 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's thick. Titan is also extremely cold, with 539 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: an average surface temperature of one hundred and eighty three 540 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: of a negative one hundred and eighty three degrees celsius 541 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 3: or negative two hundred and ninety seven degrees fahrenheit. That's 542 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 3: really cold. Of course, that is too cold to support 543 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: liquid water on the surface. It is not going to 544 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 3: have water oceans. But nevertheless, Titan does have large stable 545 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 3: systems of rivers, lakes, and seas made out of not water, 546 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 3: but liquid hydrocarbons, especially liquid methane, ethane, and some liquid nitrogen. 547 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 3: So methane is a hydrocarbon that we know here on 548 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: Earth as well chemical formula H four. On Earth, it's 549 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: pretty much always in the form of a gas. Ethane, 550 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 3: another hydrocarbon, is C two H six, and together methane 551 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 3: and ethane contribute to a kind of atmospheric chemical cycle 552 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 3: on Titan that has some resemblances to but also some 553 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: differences from the water cycle on Earth. So, like methane 554 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 3: is released apparently from deep inside the interior of Titan, 555 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 3: and then it forms a sort of weather system. It 556 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 3: gets broken down by sunlight in the upper atmosphere and 557 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 3: there are there is some kind of methane or methane 558 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 3: downstream product weather system where you know, these these organic 559 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 3: molecules fall down from above, so you get like rains 560 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 3: and snows that have these hydrocarbon features. So one of 561 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 3: the consequences of this wet hydrocarbon environment is a surface 562 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 3: with snaking rivers and massive lakes of liquid hydrocarbons, especially 563 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 3: clustered around the Moon's polar regions. So the three largest 564 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 3: of these hydrocarbon seas in order of are Kraken, mare 565 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 3: Lygia Mara, and Punga Mara, which are all situated around 566 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 3: the Moon's north pole. Mythology notes, by the way, I 567 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 3: think we know the kraken, but the Punga is the 568 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 3: name of a being in Maori mythology who is a 569 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 3: son of the sea deity Tangaroa, but also the father 570 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 3: of all creatures considered strange and ugly, including lizards and sharks. 571 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 3: Ligia was the name was a name that appeared in 572 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 3: Greek mythology in multiple contexts, but always associated with minor 573 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 3: sea deities like the Nereids or the Sirens, and also 574 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 3: in a creepy Edgar Allan Poe short story where I 575 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 3: think the deal is Ligia was the narrator's wife and 576 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 3: she died, and then he marries another woman and then 577 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 3: she dies but then resurrects from the dead as his 578 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 3: first wife, Ligia. 579 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 1: This would be the tomb of Ligia, right. 580 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 3: I think so. And that's the one that has the 581 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 3: poem the Conqueror Worm. 582 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And there was a Vincent Price adaptation of 583 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: this one to some time. Yeah. Yeah. 584 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: So anyway, you've got these Maria, these these seas or lakes, 585 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: I don't know what the you know, whether you want 586 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 3: to call them sees or lakes. The biggest one, I 587 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 3: think has been compared roughly to the size of the 588 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 3: Caspian Sea on Earth. I think, Likegia Mara I've seen 589 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: compared roughly to the size of Lake Superior. But whatever, 590 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 3: however we classify them. These bodies of liquid hydrocarbons on 591 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 3: Titan were documented extensively through radar imaging carried out by 592 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 3: the Cassini mission orbiter over a period of many years 593 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 3: in the in the two thousands, and twenty tens. So 594 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 3: I wanted to zoom in on some of these different 595 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 3: radar images of Legimra, the second largest sea on Titan, 596 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 3: and these photos were taken at intervals between two thousand 597 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 3: and seven and twenty fifteen. Rob, I've got these for 598 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 3: you to look at here. So what we see appears 599 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 3: to be a sort of flower shaped peninsula of land 600 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 3: jutting out into the sea and off of one of 601 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 3: the petals of this flower of land. There is a mystery. 602 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 3: In the image from two thousand and seven, the land 603 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 3: terminates and there's just nothing but dark lake beyond it. 604 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 3: Then in an image from twenty thirteen, suddenly there is 605 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: what appears to be an island off the same coastal feature. 606 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 3: Then in another image from twenty fourteen, the island seems 607 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 3: to have faded into just a wisp of discoloration, something 608 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 3: that looks like it could be you know, I'm using 609 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 3: too much of an Earth analogy here, but it looks 610 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 3: like it could be like an atoll, or like a 611 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 3: bank of shallows. And then by twenty fifteen, the island 612 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 3: has vanished completely and only the dark liquid remains once more. 613 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 3: What the heck or how is the topography of Titan 614 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 3: changing like that are islands appearing and disappearing on this 615 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: alien c So these types of anomalies have been referred 616 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 3: to in the press as the magic islands of Titan, 617 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 3: since they seem to appear and disappear when we're not looking, 618 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 3: and it's still not known for sure what they are, 619 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 3: but there are some ideas, some proposals. You would need 620 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 3: something that would be present long enough to have a 621 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 3: reasonable chance of being caught in images taken by the orbiter, 622 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,240 Speaker 3: but also something that would disappear completely within a couple 623 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 3: of years. So there have been various suggestions, including floating 624 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 3: hydrocarbon solids like particles that have fallen from the atmosphere, 625 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 3: maybe a sort of carbon based dust floating on the lake, 626 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 3: or perhaps massive upwellings of nitrogen gas bubbles appearing as 627 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 3: bright spots on the radar image. But just recently in 628 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 3: January twenty twenty four, a group of researchers suggested another possibility, 629 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 3: which is hydrocarbon icebergs, basically pourous honeycomb like frozen masses 630 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 3: of hydrocarbons. So the paper in question here is by 631 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: zenting Uau, Julia Garver, Xi Jiang and Patricia Migugen. It's 632 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 3: called the Fate of simple organics on Titan's surface, a 633 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 3: theoretical perspective published in Geophysical Research Letters. So the authors 634 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 3: here are saying, in the atmosphere of Titan, you've got 635 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 3: these simple compounds like methane that get broken down, maybe 636 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: by exposure to sunlight, and they recombine and end up 637 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 3: transformed into bigger, more complex organic molecules. And many of 638 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 3: these carbon based compounds freeze solid and fall to the surface. 639 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 3: Now what happens when these hydrocarbon ices fall on the 640 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 3: surface of Titan's lakes. It seems that most of them 641 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 3: probably sync to the bottom, becoming new layers of lake 642 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 3: bed sediment. Because remember it's peculiar to water that frozen 643 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 3: water floats on the surface of liquid water. Most frozen 644 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 3: solids increase in density and would be likely to sink 645 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 3: in liquid, but not all frozen hydrocarbons would sink. The 646 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 3: author's right quote, imagine a sponge full of holes. If 647 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: the solids are like this, with twenty five percent to 648 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: sixty percent of their volume being empty space, they can float. 649 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 3: Some solids, like hydrogen cyanide ice can also float due 650 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 3: to surface tension effects, and I was reading. In a 651 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 3: press release, the lead author UT San Antonio planetary scientist 652 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 3: Zinting Yu has compared these icebergs to the way that 653 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 3: porous volcanic pummice can float on the surface of oceans 654 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 3: on Earth before eventually becoming saturated and sinking. So in 655 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 3: this paper, the authors created a model of how various 656 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 3: materials would behave on the lake surface, and they concluded 657 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 3: that it wouldn't work unless conditions were just right. But 658 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 3: if they were right, it would work. You could have 659 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 3: these floating icebergs of hydrocarbons. So to read from the 660 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,879 Speaker 3: press release summary, quote used modeling suggested individual clumps are 661 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 3: likely too small to float by themselves, but if enough 662 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 3: clumps mass together near the shore, larger pieces could break 663 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 3: off and float away, similar to how glaciers calve on 664 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 3: Earth calving. They're referring to yeah parts of a glacier 665 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 3: breaking off and falling into the water. The press release continues, 666 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 3: with a combination of a bigger size and the right porosity, 667 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 3: these organic glaciers could explain the magic island phenomenon. So 668 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 3: the issue is not settled. This is yet another proposal 669 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 3: for what it could be to explain these magic islands 670 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 3: in the radar images. But I kind of hope this 671 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 3: explanation has proven right because I love the idea of 672 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 3: icebergs on Titan. Maybe that would like warn us away 673 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 3: from the humorous of trying to launch a Titanic on 674 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 3: the lakes of Titan. I don't know, But then again, 675 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 3: I guess if they're very porous and honeycomb like, maybe 676 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 3: they wouldn't or represent much of a threat to boat. 677 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:13,720 Speaker 3: So I'm not sure. 678 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: Well, this is this is fascinating. Yeah, I had not 679 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: thought about you know, obviously the topic of ice and 680 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: oceans and water on other worlds and moons within our 681 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: Solar system has coming before, but I had not looked 682 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: at this idea of giant honeycomb glaciers. Potentially this is 683 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: This is fascinating, But to be clear, not an alien 684 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: space ship. 685 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 3: No reason to think so. I think we would we 686 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 3: would exhaust the I don't know, planetary science explanations before 687 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 3: turning to alien technology. 688 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: It's probably telling that the press latched onto the term 689 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: magic islands yet like it kind of maybe even too 690 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: much of a stretch to say, is this is this 691 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: is an alien spaceship? Now at best Magic Island. 692 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 3: Well, I have no inclination to think it's the spaceship, 693 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 3: but I still do find that just the idea of 694 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 3: surface features appearing and disappearing on the Lakes of Titan 695 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 3: very very spooky and fascinating. 696 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right, well, we're gonna go ahead and close 697 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: out this episode. Obviously there's there's so much more regarding 698 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: ice we could cover. I don't we haven't decided yet. 699 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: If we're doing a third ice episode, we may go 700 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: on to some other topic. But potentially we could come 701 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: back to ice in the future if that's the case, 702 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: because just in Lopez's book, I mean, he has whole 703 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: stretches where he's talking about like different types of ice 704 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: and the behavior of ice, and when of course indigenous 705 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: beliefs and traditions concerning ice. There's a lot we could cover. 706 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,439 Speaker 1: And and likewise, we know a lot of you out there. 707 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: You have direct experience with ice in ways that we don't. 708 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: You may have takes on some of the things we've 709 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: discussed here, observations, traditions, et cetera. We would love to 710 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: hear from you. Just a reminder that stuff to blow 711 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 1: your mind is primarily a science podcast with core episodes 712 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,879 Speaker 1: publishing on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the stuff to blow 713 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: your own podcast feed listener mail on Monday's, a short 714 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: form episode on Wednesdays, and on Fridays, we set aside 715 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: most serious concerns to just talk about a weird movie 716 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: on Weird House Cinema. 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