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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and

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Speaker 1: today I have the incredible, beautiful, fantastic, peerless Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: How are you, sugar?

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Speaker 2: Okay, that was a lot better than the last time.

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Speaker 2: And I want to point out that I'm dragging something.

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Speaker 2: I'm dragging as we taught wreaths to put it on

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Speaker 2: the front gate. Okay, spring reaths. I just took down

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Speaker 2: a bunch of easter bunnies. I got it, dollar tree, Okay,

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Speaker 2: here we go. Seawn comes Cassie Ventura.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to tell you right now a star

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Speaker 1: was born when you have somebody testify that correctly. It

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Speaker 1: was that much composure that is backed up.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Excuse great my video, text messages and emails boom star witness.

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Speaker 2: Well, can I tell you something. I've had a few

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Speaker 2: rape victims that good on hones standing A few, not

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Speaker 2: a lot, because they're usually so worn up they can

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Speaker 2: hardly walk, much less the usually seeing their accuser for

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Speaker 2: the first time so rape, so they go through HTL.

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Speaker 2: Now in her case, let me tell you I just

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Speaker 2: got off a program on two B with Harvey Levin,

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Speaker 2: Ebony Joe Tacopina, who I haven't seen a really long time,

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Speaker 2: you know, in person, and of course Mark dere goes

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Speaker 2: now Mark and Joe Tacopina. As you can imagine, I

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Speaker 2: wanted something out. I didn't like it, but it's true,

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Speaker 2: and it's thing that we have to deal with, and

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Speaker 2: that is that. Cassie Ventura sent a series of texts

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Speaker 2: to Shawn Comes saying I'm up for a free off

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Speaker 2: any time. I love you. Just a lot of things

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Speaker 2: that are contrary to what the state is saying. Now.

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Speaker 2: I know it's hard to make sense of it, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of times women who are in an abusive relationship,

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Speaker 2: they try to just keep the peace, you know, they

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Speaker 2: just try to make everything work without any more violence

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Speaker 2: or abuse. For instance, I had a case I prosecuted

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Speaker 2: where the wife was highly educated. Okay, of course, abuse

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Speaker 2: goes across all socioeconomic levels. It doesn't matter you're rich,

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Speaker 2: you're poor, middle income, got a PhD, you got a

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Speaker 2: seventh grade education. Same scenario plays out. And Cheryl I

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Speaker 2: trained and trained at the Battered Women's Center to be

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Speaker 2: a volunteer on the hotline, and I heard it in

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Speaker 2: my head. But for those of us that are not

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Speaker 2: in or never have never been in an abusive relationship,

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Speaker 2: we think things like, well, don't you just leave, But

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Speaker 2: when you're in it. For instance, with the women that

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Speaker 2: I dealt with, they thought, and they were probably right

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Speaker 2: by the way. We just said that they would lose

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Speaker 2: because to thee of their children, which I'd go through

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Speaker 2: almost anything to stay with the twins. You know, let

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Speaker 2: me amend that I'd go through anything to stay with

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Speaker 2: the twins. They think they'll lose their children, their home.

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Speaker 2: It's so much to lose, right their jobs, any CASTI

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Speaker 2: venturer's position, she was afraid she would lose her livelihood.

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Speaker 2: That was her fear. So that's what she was dealing

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Speaker 2: with if she didn't go along with Shawn comes Also

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Speaker 2: at the beginning, she was trying to get his skull affection.

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Speaker 2: That's what she wanted, and I think that she believed

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Speaker 2: playing along with his freak offs would make that happen.

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Speaker 2: And I can't crawl her head and figure out what

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Speaker 2: she was thinking. But nothing good, I continue that much.

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Speaker 2: Nothing good.

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Speaker 1: I tell you, there's a reality that she knew when

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Speaker 1: she tried to leave once his security chased her down,

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Speaker 1: And she knew when she dated a rapper that you know,

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Speaker 1: Sean Combs said, I'm gonna blow his gar up and

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Speaker 1: then shut up his car blew.

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Speaker 2: Up, got blown up. You're right, we.

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Speaker 1: Can get to me even if I'm not with him.

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Speaker 2: Well, and she was absolutely right, of course, So that

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Speaker 2: is what Cassy Material was dealing with. But the reality is,

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Speaker 2: for our purposes, the state has to deal with those issues,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know how they're going to deal with them.

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Speaker 2: These prosecutors don't normally do violent crimes like we call

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Speaker 2: them state crimes, because state court, the highest court in

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Speaker 2: every state, is the superior court, the felony court, and

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Speaker 2: violent crimes are usually relegated and handled by the state. Okay,

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Speaker 2: like you and me, they handle different types of cases.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure they've got the sense to bring in

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Speaker 2: an expert in the batter women's syndrome. And it's blained

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Speaker 2: why she would go along with it. And I'm telling you,

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Speaker 2: you think, oh, I would never do that, Well that's

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Speaker 2: what I think. I would never do that, But I

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Speaker 2: don't know what I would do in order to keep

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Speaker 2: the twins.

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Speaker 1: And when your life is on the line, of course,

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Speaker 1: you're going to try to get along and go along

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Speaker 1: and make things better. Maybe he won't beat me if

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Speaker 1: I'm agreeable.

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Speaker 2: I've got an example that was me. I had a

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Speaker 2: judge who shall remain name. What's one I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: off the air when I when I see you again

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Speaker 2: in the flesh well number one. It was a trunk.

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Speaker 2: Let's just start with that. Horrible and more import it,

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Speaker 2: horrible judge, all the wrong rulings. I would just sit

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Speaker 2: there and look at him, thinking, what are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I would have to zerox the law and then yellow

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Speaker 2: highlight it and then hand it to him to get

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Speaker 2: the right ruling. And then sometimes he'd be irritated that

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Speaker 2: I had to hand him as Zero's copy of the

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Speaker 2: wall because he didn't know it and rull against me. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I don't expect to be ruled with every time, but

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Speaker 2: when I give you the black and white letter of

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Speaker 2: the law and you still don't follow it, I mean.

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Speaker 2: He was horrible, but he was still a superior court judge,

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Speaker 2: and some of my cases would be asside to his court,

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Speaker 2: so I'll ever get he quote walked me to my

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Speaker 2: car one evening and then put a liplock on me.

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Speaker 2: The last thing I wanted was to kiss that saggy

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Speaker 2: old man. I just closed. I've never closed my teeth

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Speaker 2: tighter in my life. But what did I do? I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be black bald, I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: lose my job, and I did not want any of

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Speaker 2: my cases with the other judges to be affected. So

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Speaker 2: I just shut the hay up and kept going. I

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Speaker 2: never mentioned it to a soul. I tried to avoid

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Speaker 2: his court room at all costs. I did whatever I

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Speaker 2: thought I had to do to quote, get through it.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't the only one, of course, you know, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't just me. But lot story short, you do what

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Speaker 2: you have to do. My cases were more important to me,

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Speaker 2: and that's how that worked out. So people may say,

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Speaker 2: why did you do that? I wouldn't to quote whatever

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Speaker 2: fill in the blank. But people do what they have

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Speaker 2: to do to get through. So somehow the state's got

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Speaker 2: to explained all that to the jury.

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Speaker 3: How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed

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Speaker 3: twenty times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes,

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Speaker 3: that was the medical examiner's official ruling after a closed

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Speaker 3: door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what

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Speaker 3: happened to Ellen Greenberg a huge American miscarriage of justice.

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Speaker 3: For an in depth look at the facts, see what

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Speaker 3: happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National

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Speaker 3: Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

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Speaker 1: When he beat her in the hotel, Sean Holmes tried

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Speaker 1: to buy off the police officer with a water cash.

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Speaker 1: He tried to buy you know, miss Vanjura off with

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Speaker 1: twenty million dollars. He wanted everybody to keep quiet, and

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Speaker 1: he kept blackmailing people. And let me just say this,

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Speaker 1: and I hope the prosecution brings this out. There were

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people that were abused. He was violent

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Speaker 1: toward other people, and grown men kept quiet. So it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just her, It wasn't just the girl. There were

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Speaker 1: grown men that never talked about him holding people over

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Speaker 1: a balcony and beating people and raping people and all

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Speaker 1: the other things that happened during these freak offs that

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Speaker 1: injured people. And you and I talked a long time

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Speaker 1: ago that we knew there were drivers and assistants and

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Speaker 1: housekeepers and all these people that had to see evidence

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Speaker 1: of these things. And I think they have laid a

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Speaker 1: beautiful foundation. They have done an incredible job with the victim.

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Speaker 1: She was stellar, So.

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Speaker 2: Now where are we going from there? Now? Geargos and

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Speaker 2: I have gotten into it now, I think on three occasions,

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Speaker 2: he keeps claiming what she was running away from the

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Speaker 2: interc Intercontinental Hotel, beating that she was running away because

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Speaker 2: she had become aggressive on Combs after being jealous and

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Speaker 2: having an outburst about him getting text from another woman.

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Speaker 2: She says she was running away from a free cough

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Speaker 2: and she didn't want to do it anymore. Now, how

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Speaker 2: can we corroborate what she is saying and disapprove? Geargho

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Speaker 2: says his daughter is the main trial lawyer for Comes

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Speaker 2: Tenny Gearghos, and how are we going to do that?

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Speaker 2: This is how I think we're going to do that.

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Speaker 2: When the security guard went to the room to help

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Speaker 2: Cassie get her bags, he saw at least one other

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Speaker 2: mail in the room, so that corroborates cassie story that

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Speaker 2: Comes was forcing her to have sex while he watched

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Speaker 2: and masturbated or whatever he did that supports that corroborates

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Speaker 2: her story. Now, I don't know if the state has

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Speaker 2: found that mail. I hope they have so he can

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Speaker 2: further corroborate Cassy story. Now we keep hearing Harrol in

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Speaker 2: the knees. Yes, they've proven Sean Comes as a vile person,

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Speaker 2: but have they proven their case? What a lot of well,

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Speaker 2: and they shouldn't get it. What lay people don't get

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Speaker 2: is the state's case is a ridico normally reserved for mobsters,

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Speaker 2: drug enterprises ahead that you know, think about Sopranos. That's

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Speaker 2: the easy way to do it. Tony Soprano ran the organization.

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Speaker 2: It was a loose confederacy of thugs to carry out

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Speaker 2: in criminal purpose. Their purpose was murderer, drugs, strip bars,

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Speaker 2: laundering money, theft. That was their purpose. Okay, In this case,

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Speaker 2: Antoni Soprano was the head of the snake. In this case,

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Speaker 2: Seawan Combs is the head of the snake. And all

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Speaker 2: the people that worked for him. The quote security guard

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Speaker 2: that chased down Cassie Ventura physically dragged her back to Combs, Well,

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Speaker 2: that's part of the enterprise. The people that arranged travel

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Speaker 2: for sex workers from out of state, they're part of

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Speaker 2: the enterprise. Everybody that worked for Combs and knew what

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Speaker 2: was going on. If you bought baby oil, if you

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Speaker 2: did the lighting, if you did the video, you got

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Speaker 2: the GHB, gamma hydroxy but rate to drug the women.

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Speaker 2: If you did any of that, you're part of a

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Speaker 2: criminal conspiracy. So when they're talking about this bodyguard did this,

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Speaker 2: this person arranged travel, those are unindicted co conspirators the

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Speaker 2: state that's proving its case. People just right now, don't

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Speaker 2: see that. That's what that is.

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Speaker 1: If you watch the video, when she's trying to leave

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Speaker 1: that hotel room, she in no way looks aggressive. She's

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Speaker 1: got a bag that she sits on the ground, she's

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Speaker 1: looking through it. She's waiting on the elevator to come.

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Speaker 1: He's the one that runs out of the towel. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't buck up on him. She in no way tries

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Speaker 1: to defend herself. She doesn't go after him. She's attacked again.

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Speaker 1: So that video is a money tree.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, that is the money tree. If you

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Speaker 2: want to call it that, you're right, it is. It's

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Speaker 2: pretty amazing. And another part of Gerrengos's argument is that

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Speaker 2: that she is the aggressor. She is the one giving

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Speaker 2: comes a good old fashioned technical legal term ass whipping. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's that she is the aggressor. Oh, look to him.

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Speaker 2: I could not believe that.

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Speaker 1: And said that, but he did, so yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: such a fight. His towel didn't even come on.

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Speaker 2: Come on now, And you know what we showed yesterday

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Speaker 2: on Crime Stories, which is let's see It aired last

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Speaker 2: night at sixty nine o'clock on merrit msm SO at

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Speaker 2: six o'clock sharp Eastern. It then goes to YouTube. We

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Speaker 2: played the rest of that video and I got to

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Speaker 2: tell you the rest of the video shows for she's

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Speaker 2: holding her face with one hand and she's holding up

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Speaker 2: her little left she can't weigh more than ninety pounds.

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Speaker 2: She's holding up her left hand to protect herself, holding

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Speaker 2: up that one little hand to try to keep fight

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Speaker 2: off Sean Combs who's beating the hay out of her.

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Speaker 2: So you know that just holding up that one little

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Speaker 2: hand just kind of broke my heart. Trying to defend herself.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it just.

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Speaker 1: It's just upsetting to me when he's kicking her and

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Speaker 1: then drags her back just around that corner. You know,

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Speaker 1: not only did that not in he was just getting

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Speaker 1: ramped up.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally just getting ramped up. So yes, I'm

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Speaker 2: with you on that. So you know, they've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of explaining that they've got to do. How are

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Speaker 2: they gonna do it? I'm not sure, but they're gonna

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Speaker 2: need an expert. I can tell you that much. I

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Speaker 2: can tell you that less. Cher I'm gonna call him.

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Speaker 2: And I do have to mention one thing.

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Speaker 1: You have got something in your house right now that

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Speaker 1: you didn't have a week ago. You got double eagle

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Speaker 1: Scouts in your house. Congratulation.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe it, Cheryl. I actually there were so

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Speaker 2: many times we'll see. I think they went from cubs

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Speaker 2: to eat, you know, to regular scouts. Got so when

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Speaker 2: they were in the sixth grade. So it's been six seven, eight,

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Speaker 2: nine eleven that they've been doing this, camping out every summer,

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Speaker 2: camping out in the winter, digging holes in the dirt

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Speaker 2: and cooking this amazing meal in a hole in the

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Speaker 2: dirt in the middle of nowhere. I'm talking about. They

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Speaker 2: know how to make apple cobbler in a hole in

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Speaker 2: the dirt. Lucy Uld pitch a tent faster than anybody

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Speaker 2: I know. And I'm really proud of something that John

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Speaker 2: David did a couple of years ago. They both got

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Speaker 2: there swimming Merrick Badge, which requires swimming one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty yards NonStop. And you know, when Lucy had to

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Speaker 2: take her tests, I jumped in the lake too. I

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Speaker 2: thought I was going to die, but that said I

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Speaker 2: had to keep going because everybody's watching me. Oh lord,

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Speaker 2: I can't and that up now. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: much lake water I swallowed, but I just kept going.

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Speaker 2: But John David went to a pool party in our neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: This was about two months after he had gotten his

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Speaker 2: swim merit badge, and a little boy who did not

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Speaker 2: know how to swim came to the party and jumped

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Speaker 2: in and nobody noticed he was drowning because you know,

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Speaker 2: music was playing there, playing games, everybody's yelling, there was

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Speaker 2: hot dogs being cooked, and the mom ran out. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that she could swim, but she saw him

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Speaker 2: and scream John David. Nobody heard her. John David looked

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Speaker 2: over and saw the little boy. He jumped in the

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Speaker 2: water and saved the little boy's life. That happened. I've

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Speaker 2: never been And of course he didn't even say anything

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Speaker 2: about it. The mom told me later, and then I

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Speaker 2: asked him and then he told me what had happened.

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of him, and I'm so proud of

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Speaker 2: Lucy because you know how much she hates speaking in

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Speaker 2: public or doing anything in public. She's just very beautiful

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Speaker 2: and smart and articulate. She just I don't like to

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Speaker 2: speak publicly, that little thing. Oh. I love her so much.

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Speaker 2: When she did her Eagle project, it was making one

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Speaker 2: hundred blankets for the homeless to distribute through Trinity Kitchen

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Speaker 2: Trinity Missions in Inner City Atlanta, and she would at

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Speaker 2: each volunteer workshop workday, she would have to stand up

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Speaker 2: to a group it could be five people, it could

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Speaker 2: be fifteen people, and explain how to make these blankets.

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Speaker 2: Because part of Eagle is you don't do it on

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Speaker 2: your own. Part of the Eagle process is you enlist

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Speaker 2: other volunteers to help you, and then you manage a

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Speaker 2: project like a work site. I didn't know it's so complicated,

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Speaker 2: but I would just sit there and watch her and

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Speaker 2: she glanced. I repented me a couple of times, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't jump in like I wanted to. Oper She

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Speaker 2: did it on her own. She led one, two, three, four, five,

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Speaker 2: either five or six workshops, and I was so proud

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Speaker 2: of her because you know, she's like me, like at

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Speaker 2: a party or get together I'd rather be in the

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Speaker 2: kitchen and fixing the food or cleaning the dishes. Unless

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about a case, I don't really like to talk.

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Speaker 2: But she did it. I was so proud of her,

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Speaker 2: and you know, she had a chance. You know, you

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Speaker 2: can be a girl scout, no offense. They're awesome. But

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Speaker 2: her girl Scout trip was basically having cookies after school

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Speaker 2: and learning a craft. So she wanted to go on

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Speaker 2: five mile hikes and learn to swim one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty yards without stopping in a coal lake and pitch

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Speaker 2: a tint under the sky to start a fire with nothing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she did all that, both of them did,

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Speaker 2: and I'd like to add to nobody asked. John David

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Speaker 2: won two sharpshooter awards. What was what they call the

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Speaker 2: quarter where you shoot five five shots at I forgot

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Speaker 2: how many one hundred feet into a quarter forty feet,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. And then he won

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Speaker 2: the dime where he shoot ten shots into a dime

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Speaker 2: at the same distance. They're amazing. Of course, you know

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Speaker 2: how I feel how I feel about guns, but I'm

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Speaker 2: still proud of them. So they had really really I

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Speaker 2: don't know how I got so blessed. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how those two came out of me, but I saw

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Speaker 2: it happen. I know they weren't switched to birth. I

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Speaker 2: know that for a fact. So man, you guys, Eryl,

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Speaker 2: thank you for giving me a chance to brag on them.

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Speaker 1: An amazing accomplishment. Absolutely, and the whole family earned it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just so was their scout masters.

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Speaker 2: My goodness, Miss Leslie and mister Harry. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 2: they never gave up on the twins. They never judged

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Speaker 2: them when they missed meetings, and they missed meet a

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Speaker 2: lot of meetings over the years. They you know, they

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Speaker 2: just supported them the whole way. And just I can't

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Speaker 2: thank them enough. I really can't. Yep, Yeah, I'm proud.

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Speaker 2: I'm proud. You're gonna be at that eagle ceremony, you

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Speaker 2: know that, right. We're gonna put a big old Shending

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Speaker 2: in like we like to say, we're gonna put on

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Speaker 2: the dog.

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Speaker 1: But on the dog that's been earned. Honey. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: believe in celebrating all accomplishments. This needs to have fireworks

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Speaker 1: and some pony rides.

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Speaker 2: It is a big I see on the backside. See yeah,

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Speaker 2: I see you at the salad wheel.

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Speaker 1: Yes, my love, Bye honey,