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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: Vice is beautiful. Just be careful. Walter Crawford see, I

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Speaker 1: think it would be something like this old not Then

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Speaker 1: My daughter and I are walking through Saint Patrick's Cemetery

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Speaker 1: number three. We're still trying to find the Crawford family gravesite,

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Speaker 1: but the name isn't listed in the cemetery's directory. Some

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Speaker 1: of these are so old that you can't even really

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Speaker 1: read the headstones. I can look it up on Google.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't She said that she looked at the computer

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Speaker 1: and she couldn't find it. I don't think it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be big, so let's live down here. This is a

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Speaker 1: challenge because there are tombs that look like many houses,

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Speaker 1: and all the grave sites are slightly raised. I was

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Speaker 1: a little concerned before our trip because I had read

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Speaker 1: that robbers liked to hide in between the tombs and

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Speaker 1: ambush visitors in some of the cemeteries. But Saint Patrick's

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Speaker 1: Number three felt very safe. Thank you come with me.

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Speaker 2: I think where he died, yes, yes, So based on that,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think any of these.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these seemed too ornate for the Crawfords.

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Speaker 1: This looks like something This could be a possible I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be this kind. It's very simple.

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Speaker 1: We're sort of running out of time. In March of

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Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, newspapers across the country assigned suspected serial killer

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Speaker 1: Annie Crawford numerous unsavory nicknames. Reporters called her a dope fiend,

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Speaker 1: the morphine missionary, and a modern Lucretia Borgia. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: heard that last one before, so I researched it. Lucrecia

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Speaker 1: Borgia was a beautiful, stoic noblewoman and a politician in

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Speaker 1: sixteenth century Spain who has been cast in history as

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Speaker 1: a fem fatale. Lucrezia allegedly had a hollow ring that

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Speaker 1: she used to secretly poison rivals with arsenic during parties.

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Speaker 1: I asked poison expert doctor Neil Bradberry about the Borgia's

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Speaker 1: family reputation. Tell me about the Borgia family. This is Spain, right,

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Speaker 1: This is Spain.

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Speaker 3: They were a family in Renaissance Europe. The patriarch of

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Speaker 3: the family eventually became Pope Rodrigo. They eliminated many of

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Speaker 3: their compatriots with arsenic. One of the things that was

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Speaker 3: true at the time, was that if an individual died,

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Speaker 3: then their wealth automatically went back to the pope. So

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Speaker 3: the pope would go round making an individual a bishop.

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Speaker 3: The bishop would accumulate lots of wealth, then he would

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Speaker 3: be invited to the Borges for a party, would be

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Speaker 3: killed off, wow, and then the pope would accumulate all

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Speaker 3: the bishop's riches. And several people were killed that way.

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Speaker 1: That's terrible, And the Borgias, including Lucrezia, allegedly used arsenic

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Speaker 1: like many others did later in history.

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Speaker 3: It's an old poison and one that has a long

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Speaker 3: hit history. Arsnik's been known as a poison obviously for

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Speaker 3: many many years, even going back into the early times.

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Speaker 3: It's been known for many thousands of years.

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Speaker 1: Probably so Lucrezia Borgia killed for wealth and power. But

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Speaker 1: did Annie Crawford kill four members of her own family

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Speaker 1: for money? In nineteen twelve New Orleans DA Sinclair Adams

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Speaker 1: said yes to Sinclair, there was no other logical motive.

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Speaker 1: A reminder of the amount of money we're talking about

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Speaker 1: with these life insurance policies. Mary Agnes had three hundred dollars. Emma,

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Speaker 1: her mother had about three hundred dollars. Also, her father, Walter,

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Speaker 1: had an estate of one thousand dollars and Elise had

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Speaker 1: a three hundred dollar policy. Plus there was that forty

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Speaker 1: five dollars paycheck and Annie collected all of that money

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Speaker 1: over fourteen months. She had one thousand, forty five dollars,

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Speaker 1: which is more than thirty thousand dollars today. And this

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Speaker 1: all was supposed to be split between the surviving relatives,

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Speaker 1: who were Annie and Gertrude and Emma thirty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: People have killed for far less. Investigators had interviewed members

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Speaker 1: of the Crawford family. Annie's uncle, Robert Crawford didn't believe

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Speaker 1: that Annie murdered Elise. He couldn't imagine a woman in

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Speaker 1: his family would do that, but his wife, aunt Mary,

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Speaker 1: told the police that Annie had delayed calling the doctor

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Speaker 1: and that she seemed dismissive of Elisa's symptoms. Author Alan

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Speaker 1: Gotrow says the district attorney was methodical with his investigation

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Speaker 1: into Annie's scams.

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Speaker 4: So they start to see motive. Did Alice have a

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Speaker 4: life insurance policy? Wasn't quite sure, but when we look

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Speaker 4: at her checking account, her checking account had been drained.

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Speaker 1: Witnesses began to take the stand on Monday, March eleventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, at the courthouse in New Orleans, including Annie's

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Speaker 1: aunt and her sister Gertrude. The district attorney believed that

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Speaker 1: Annie spent all of the insurance money on clothes, though

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Speaker 1: it's not clear where he got that idea. As I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Annie was a dowdy dresser. She didn't keep

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Speaker 1: up with the latest expensive fashions. I think he just

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Speaker 1: couldn't figure out where all of the money went. After

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Speaker 1: reading the testimony, Historian Terrence Fitzmorris disagrees with the prosecutor.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 6: According to the testimony from Annie's older sister, the money

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Speaker 6: was spent on funerals, and considering the cost of funerals,

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Speaker 6: even in nineteen eleven and twelve, insurance money barely paid

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Speaker 6: for funerals.

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Speaker 1: More about funeral expenses a bit later. At least part

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Speaker 1: of that life insurance money went to the funerals, and

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Speaker 1: of course the life insurance from the parents and Mary

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Speaker 1: Agnes were split between the surviving sisters. It's not that

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Speaker 1: much money. In the end. The press described Annie Crawford

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Speaker 1: as pale and frail and a woman of small stature.

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Speaker 1: She appeared to be more like a prim and self

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Speaker 1: conscious school teacher than a person with criminal inclinations. And

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Speaker 1: she looked like a school teacher in mourning. You said

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Speaker 1: she were all black in a veil. Is that right?

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Speaker 7: During the show?

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Speaker 4: We're all black and a veil during the trial the

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Speaker 4: whole time, the whole time, Well, yeah, most of the time.

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Speaker 4: You saw the picture of her, you know, from the newspaper,

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Speaker 4: that was definitely a black dress.

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Speaker 7: I think she played the mourning card, let's put it

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Speaker 7: that way.

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Speaker 4: When she went to trial hopefully to get sympathy from

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Speaker 4: the jury. Maybe that was her show of remorse by

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Speaker 4: you know, wearing a black dress.

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Speaker 1: So did the prosecutor go after her? And what was

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Speaker 1: the reaction of her defense attorney?

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Speaker 4: The prosecution didn't go after as aggressively as one thing.

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Speaker 4: And when Lionel Adams saw this, it was his opportunity

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Speaker 4: to convince the jury that, hey, look okay, So she

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Speaker 4: made a mistake.

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Speaker 7: It wasn't intentional, it wasn't pre meditated.

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Speaker 1: Annie sat stoically at the defense table, never making eye

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Speaker 1: contact with anyone sitting behind her. She occasionally placed a

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Speaker 1: black fan across her face, as if hiding from the audience.

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Speaker 1: She seemed almost coy. Annie refused to show any emotion

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Speaker 1: as everyone in the packed courthouse gulked. The newspaper reporters

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans were relentless and misogynistic, as you could guess.

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Speaker 1: One paper labeled her the poison Queen. While they were

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Speaker 1: still in the middle of the trial.

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Speaker 6: There was a reference to a newspaper article in the

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Speaker 6: New Orleans Item, which was a scurriless rag in the

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Speaker 6: early part of the twentieth century, and it had a

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Speaker 6: little story and it talked about the one person who

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Speaker 6: could shed some light on Annie Crawford was dead, and

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Speaker 6: it was her mother, And did the mother really know

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Speaker 6: what moral feelings Annie had, if ever she had Annie.

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Speaker 6: And it was a horrible, vicious depiction without any evidence

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Speaker 6: at all of this.

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Speaker 1: So the press was convicting her before the trial was

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Speaker 1: even over, even in the death of her own mother.

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Speaker 6: It was a terrible thing, and she sued them for that.

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Speaker 6: She sued the New Orleans Eiety because they had depicted

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Speaker 6: her in such a fashion that she was a moral monster.

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Speaker 6: And this stemmed from also their depiction of her as

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Speaker 6: being anything but attractive. You know that no man would

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Speaker 6: possibly look at Annie Crawford more than once. She was

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Speaker 6: a spinster and an old maid even before she was

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Speaker 6: thirty years old.

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Speaker 1: Retired law school professor Linda Frost says that there is

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Speaker 1: an inherent bias in the criminal justice system for many defendants.

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Speaker 8: I think it's a risk really with justice writ large,

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Speaker 8: that we bring our own impressions and biases to the process.

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Speaker 8: This is not a sanitized environment that isn't influenced by

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Speaker 8: our beliefs and suppositions and prejudices about the world in general.

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Speaker 8: So sure people's beliefs on what is possible for a

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Speaker 8: woman to do and what isn't would affect things, just

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Speaker 8: as we bring our biases about racial inclinations and people

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Speaker 8: of education, people with lower levels of education. All of

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Speaker 8: those things come together to influence the way people perceive

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Speaker 8: a set of ledge facts.

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Speaker 1: Experts in nineteen twelve constructed a narrative for Annie right

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Speaker 1: out of Hollywood. One criminologist said, quote, the girl was

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Speaker 1: such a victim of morphine that she worshiped the drug

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Speaker 1: with a sort of fanatical reverence, a love so great

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Speaker 1: that she wanted everyone to share it with her. Framing

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Speaker 1: Anne as a drug addict was certainly the most sensational storyline,

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Speaker 1: and she told the police that she was an addict

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Speaker 1: I suspect. That was to explain why she had morphine

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Speaker 1: with her at home. Yet Annie sat calmly in court

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Speaker 1: with no signs that she was on morphine or having

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Speaker 1: withdrawal symptoms. Virtually all observers wondered if she really was

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Speaker 1: an addict. That description seemed off. As the trial continued,

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Speaker 1: the courtroom became very exciting as Annie sat pensively at

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Speaker 1: the defense table, her attorney and the DA debated each

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Speaker 1: fact loudly, almost violently.

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Speaker 7: These two couldn't stand each other.

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Speaker 4: The prosecuting attorney and Lionel Adams are going at each

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Speaker 4: other constantly over what they're arguing over every little thing.

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Speaker 4: And what happens is if the defendant gets on the stand,

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Speaker 4: it's almost an assured conviction because the prosecution gets free reign.

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Speaker 1: But the defense decided to chance and they put Annie

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Speaker 1: on the stand. Annie sat quietly in the witness chair,

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Speaker 1: as steady as ever. She removed her veil as the

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Speaker 1: defense attorney began asking questions. She said that yes, she

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Speaker 1: had handled both the morphine tablets and the doctor's medicine

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Speaker 1: at the same time. She intended to take the morphine herself,

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Speaker 1: but to give Elise the other pills from doctor maguire.

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Speaker 1: But she made a mistake. Yes, she knew that Elise

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Speaker 1: was an addict. No, she wasn't her supplier. They didn't

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Speaker 1: even like each other. Who knows morphine wasn't difficult to

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Speaker 1: buy in nineteen ten, so a magazine could have been

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Speaker 1: Elise's supplier. And remember, she had a job, so she

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Speaker 1: had the money to buy it herself. Alise likely became

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Speaker 1: addicted when the deaths began in her family, said the police,

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Speaker 1: but it also could have been earlier her life was

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Speaker 1: so troubled. Annie testified that after Elise fell asleep, she

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Speaker 1: flushed the rest of the morphine pills down the toilet.

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Speaker 1: Annie's testimony was brief but effective, which is unusual. Most

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Speaker 1: defendants don't do well on the stand, which is why

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Speaker 1: they don't often take the stand. Annie was calm and

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Speaker 1: confident and composed, all qualities that the male jurors seemed

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Speaker 1: to respect. She appeared to be non threatening. She made

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Speaker 1: eye contact with everyone. After she finished her testimony, the

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Speaker 1: attorneys continued to call witnesses.

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Speaker 4: Mary gets on the stand and she gave testimony as

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Speaker 4: indicated she suspected Annie's culpability in the death of her sister,

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Speaker 4: didn't mention about the parents yet.

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Speaker 1: Then there were more tensions in the courtroom as the

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Speaker 1: DA and the defense attorneys started to fight.

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Speaker 4: Literally, they start threatening each other back and forth, and

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Speaker 4: all hell breaks loose in the courtroom, and that judge says, look,

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Speaker 4: you know this isn't going to happen anymore, and finally

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Speaker 4: he gains control of the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Okay, who is next on the witness list.

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Speaker 4: Gertrude Crawford takes the stand again and she stated that

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Speaker 4: Annie had forged checks to obtain family money that she

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Speaker 4: did not earn, and she insisted that she did not

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Speaker 4: discover that her sister had forged the checks in her

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Speaker 4: name until she was officially accused of murder. So the

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Speaker 4: jury's hearing all of this, and they're combining these statements

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Speaker 4: with the fact that she had given Eleise the morphine,

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Speaker 4: that she was a beneficiary of the life insurance policies.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot of money because Elise had money

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Speaker 1: from her parents and her sister's life insurance.

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Speaker 4: She got it all. But then now you look at

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Speaker 4: she's writing checks forging checks as well, So money becomes

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Speaker 4: a very strong motive too. Now does the addiction do

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Speaker 4: that to you? You know who knows.

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Speaker 1: Gertrude said that Annie took checks from Elise's account, Ann

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Speaker 1: Gertrude's own account, signed their names, and withdrew hundreds of dollars.

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Speaker 1: And Gertrude confirmed that she watched Annie give a lease

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Speaker 1: something in a glass the night before she died. And

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Speaker 1: here's the kicker. Annie also had a life insurance policy

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Speaker 1: on Gertrude, and Gertrude told the district attorney that she

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Speaker 1: was afraid of Annie. On the stand, Gertrude said that

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Speaker 1: she never suspected Annie had anything to do with her

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Speaker 1: other sister's death or the deaths of their parents, but

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Speaker 1: Gertrude had said earlier that she was suspicious, so Gertrude

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Speaker 1: was not the most reliable witness. Then the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: took the stand and decided to do something unusual and

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Speaker 1: disturbing to help illustrate something for the jurors. Assistants passed

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Speaker 1: around jars containing pieces of Elise's brain and her spleen

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Speaker 1: to illustrate the damage done by the morphine. It was

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Speaker 1: a gruesome scene in the courthouse. Watched Annie closely as

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Speaker 1: jars moved past her, not one bit of emotion, And

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Speaker 1: when reporters searched the courthouse for members of the Crawford family,

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Speaker 1: they were disappointed unless they were called to the stand.

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Speaker 1: Annie's family chose to stay away from her murder trial.

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Speaker 6: You know, they seem to be not wanting to talk

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Speaker 6: about any of this, not wanting to be involved in

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Speaker 6: any of this.

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Speaker 1: So Gertrude and Aunt Mary testified, but everyone else was quiet.

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Speaker 1: Like Emma and Uncle Robert.

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Speaker 6: They don't give testimony in any of these cases. They

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Speaker 6: don't appear in the newspapers, they don't say anything. So

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Speaker 6: I find them to be uniquely missing in action. Just

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Speaker 6: do something wrong with that.

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Speaker 1: There were substantial amounts of victim blaming, and the defense

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Speaker 1: attorney tried to claim that Elise was suicidal because she

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Speaker 1: had given her child up for adoption. The prosecutor had

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Speaker 1: previously ordered Elise's body to be exhumed to examine it

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Speaker 1: for evidence of morphine. That's when they discovered that there

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Speaker 1: were huge amounts in her system. But the defense also

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Speaker 1: took the opportunity to have her examined for their benefit.

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Speaker 6: That's when they brought in their experts who discovered that

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Speaker 6: Elise had had a child prior to about nineteen oh six,

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Speaker 6: that she was not a virgin, and that was an

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Speaker 6: important evidence for the defense to show that Elise had

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Speaker 6: a child out of.

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Speaker 1: Wedlock, and the defense attorney, Lionel Adams, put Elise Crawford's

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Speaker 1: character on trial.

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Speaker 4: He stated, quote, Elise was morose and despondent because of

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Speaker 4: this dark chapter in her life. She had given allegedly

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Speaker 4: given birth to a child that she gave up for adoption.

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Speaker 1: Now there might have been some truth to that. Gertrude

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Speaker 1: said that Elise asked her to come to her room

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Speaker 1: the night before she first became sick. Alise handed Gurtry

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Speaker 1: two precious rings and a necklace that she always wore.

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Speaker 1: Alice told Gertrude that she didn't believe she would be

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Speaker 1: alive much longer. Was she hinting to her sister about

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Speaker 1: a suicide attempt or was she suspicious of Annie. Alise

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Speaker 1: had first vomited when she returned home from work Thursday night.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps she was going through morphine withdrawal and asked Annie

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Speaker 1: for pills. Annie's defense attorney brought in character witnesses, including

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Speaker 1: a reverend who had visited her in jail as she

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Speaker 1: awaited trial.

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Speaker 4: There was a reverend that came in and he said,

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to quote him, he says, I've seen

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Speaker 4: many criminals in the time that I have been chaplain

285
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Speaker 4: at the State Penitentiary in Baton Rouge.

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Speaker 7: That's Angola.

287
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Speaker 4: A criminal was always bitter or sarcastic when approached by anyone,

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Speaker 4: even though he is a friend. Annie Crawford is not

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Speaker 4: such a person. She is always just as polite as

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Speaker 4: though she is entertaining someone in her own home, and

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00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 4: her manners are polished. The Annie Crawford I knew is

292
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 4: a tenderhearted girl who is prayerful and fears God.

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Speaker 1: Did she confess? She never confessed, even in jail. Is

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Speaker 1: that right?

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Speaker 9: Was it?

296
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Speaker 6: No?

297
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 7: She didn't. She just said she made a mistake.

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Speaker 10: That was it.

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Speaker 4: She was sorry, I made a mistake, you know, And

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Speaker 4: there was no real remorse. I mean, she didn't think

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Speaker 4: she did anything wrong.

302
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Speaker 1: After about two weeks of testimony, the all male jury

303
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 1: debated the facts for about twelve hours behind a locked door.

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Speaker 1: They reviewed the evidence, the life insurance, the supposed new

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Speaker 1: clothes that the defense said no one had actually ever

306
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Speaker 1: seen The jurors considered any strange behavior, as well as

307
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Speaker 1: the four mysterious deaths in about a year in one home.

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Speaker 1: They finally summoned the judge.

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Speaker 4: At ten forty on March twenty six, nineteen twelve, the

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Speaker 4: court reconvened and the jury stood nine to three for

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Speaker 4: acquittal and the minority was holding out for a verdict

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Speaker 4: of murder with capital punishment.

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Speaker 1: The jurors couldn't agree and they gave up. It was over.

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Speaker 1: Annie Crawford was released from jail after the jury failed

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Speaker 1: to convict her of murdering her sister Elise, and Terence

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Speaker 1: Fitzmorris thinks that the results were probably right, and.

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Speaker 6: You can see where Saint claud Adams would have a case.

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Speaker 6: It's circumstantial, you know. But again the circumstances break down

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Speaker 6: in my estimation because they don't hold up to the testimony.

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Speaker 1: Nine of the twelve men believed Annie Crawford when she

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Speaker 1: said she had accidentally poisoned her sister. Was it because

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Speaker 1: the evidence just wasn't strong enough, probably? Or was it

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Speaker 1: because she was a woman. Maybe? Of course, there are

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Speaker 1: very famous cases of women perhaps getting away with murder.

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Speaker 1: Lizzie Borden went on trial for killing her father and

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Speaker 1: stepmother in eighteen ninety two in Fall River, Massachusetts. Lizzie

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Speaker 1: Borden was acquitted because an all male jury found it

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Speaker 1: hard to fathom that women could be cold hearted killers.

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Speaker 1: Author Kara Robertson says that the jury was so convinced

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Speaker 1: of Bordon's innocence that they sent her a present after

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Speaker 1: the verdict.

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Speaker 9: The jury is unanimous on the first ballot, and they

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Speaker 9: actually just sit in the jury room for a while

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Speaker 9: so that they appear reasonably deliberative. They find Lizzie Borden

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Speaker 9: not guilty, and they themselves then you know, head out

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Speaker 9: of the courtroom and go to a bar where they

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Speaker 9: have a drink, because that's they've been suffering under enforced

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Speaker 9: temperance d during the trial. And they have a picture

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Speaker 9: taken of themselves and they present it.

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Speaker 7: To Lizzie Bordon.

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Speaker 9: What you know, I think if you put those things

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00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 9: together that you'd say that this isn't really a case

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00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 9: of reasonable doubt for them. This is a this is

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Speaker 9: a case where they were absolutely certain that she was

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Speaker 9: not the murderer, or at least they were not prepared

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Speaker 9: to consider the possibility that she was the killer.

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Speaker 1: And this is what Lizzie Borden had in common with

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Speaker 1: Annie Crawford.

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Speaker 9: She's an unmarried daughter, engaged in good works, who lives

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Speaker 9: at home.

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Speaker 1: Not an ideal murder suspect. The prosecutor, Sinclair Adams discussed

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Speaker 1: the case with his colleagues. He could put her on

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Speaker 1: trial again, but would he Trials were costly and it

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Speaker 1: would be a horrible embarrassment for a politically savvy district

355
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Speaker 1: attorney to lose once again. I still find it hard

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Speaker 1: to believe that she wasn't convicted. Historian Terrence Fitzmorris isn't

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Speaker 1: surprised at all.

358
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Speaker 6: Again, in the United's in the court of law, you

359
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 6: must have a reasonable doubt and if there's no forensic evidence,

360
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Speaker 6: and the nine men on the jury said that there

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Speaker 6: was no forensic evidence to support the circumstantial evidence that

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Speaker 6: the district attorney brought the bear.

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Speaker 1: As we talked about earlier, it was possible and perhaps

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Speaker 1: even likely, that the deaths in her family were just

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Speaker 1: a string of unfortunate circumstances that might not have been

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Speaker 1: that unusual. In the early nineteen hundreds, she and her

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Speaker 1: sister spent the majority of the life insurance money on

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Speaker 1: the funerals and their gravesite to bolster the theory that

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Speaker 1: Annie was innocent. She never confessed to murder, never wavered,

370
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Speaker 1: but there was a coldness about her that haunted the

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Speaker 1: people who sat near her every day in the trial.

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Speaker 1: How could a woman from a seemingly lovely family be

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Speaker 1: so aloof? Mary kay McBriar says that serial killer Jane

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Speaker 1: Tappin was also known to be aloof.

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Speaker 10: She said that she probably wouldn't have killed all those

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Speaker 10: people if she had been married with children, because she

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Speaker 10: wouldn't have had time. And she said, I'm you know,

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Speaker 10: I'm glad you arrested me when you did. Otherwise I

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Speaker 10: probably would have killed those the people who I was

380
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 10: staying with, too so wild to me.

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Speaker 1: Once Annie Crawford was released from jail, she quickly returned

382
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: to her aunt and uncle's home on Peters Avenue, packed

383
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: up her belongings, and vanished from New Orleans. Within a day,

384
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Speaker 1: she reappeared in Port Arthur, Texas to start a new

385
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: life with her eldest sister, Emma Leo. Annie moved into

386
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: the family's home and lived there for much of her life.

387
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: She helped take care of Emma's children, including Patrick, who

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Speaker 1: was Cecil's husband. Cecil Leo never knew at the time

389
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Speaker 1: that she had lived for two years with a suspected

390
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Speaker 1: serial poisoner. Patrick's family just never talked about it. I

391
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: spoke with Gertrude's family too. They said they didn't even

392
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: know who the Crawfords were. They had wondered why that

393
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: name was etched on the family's plot in Saint Patrick's

394
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Speaker 1: Cemetery number three. What I wonder is, how could Gertrude

395
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Speaker 1: and Emma ever trust their sister Annie after all of this?

396
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: Or did those sisters somehow believe Annie was innocent? How

397
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: was that possible. Annie's niece in law, cecil Leo, has

398
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: been thinking about that too. Remember, cecil was married to

399
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: Emma's son. She called her missus Leo.

400
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 5: I can't imagine that Missus Leo would feel safe with

401
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 5: her taking care of Edward when Edward was born and

402
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 5: when Kitty was born, you know, I would have been

403
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 5: afraid of her.

404
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: I asked cecil about Annie's habits. Did they ever suspect

405
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: that she took drugs of any sort? Did she even

406
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: drink alcohol?

407
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 4: No?

408
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: She said, and She never suspected Annie of anything like murder.

409
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 5: There's no way that I could have suspected anything like that.

410
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 5: She was very quiet, sat there on the edge of

411
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 5: the couch. The only place she ever went was on

412
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 5: Sunday afternoon.

413
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: That's when Annie would go visit her eldest sister Emma,

414
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: with Annie's nieces.

415
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 5: She'd go with Mary and Kitty. They'd pick her up

416
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 5: and they'd go to the nursing home.

417
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 7: But she.

418
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 11: Never remember of her going anywhere else.

419
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: Cecil is shocked by all of this because she lived

420
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: with Annie and she seemed a bit off putting, but harmless.

421
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 5: I just I can't believe it. It's unbelievable because this lady

422
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: was in I'd see her every day for two years now.

423
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 5: She loved cookies, and she'd carry a bunch of cookies

424
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 5: in her pocket and she'd eatokis all day long. You know,

425
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 5: she's quite just very very quite dead for herself and

426
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 5: kept herself clean. I'll have to say that, what do

427
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 5: you mean She was a very clean person for herself.

428
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 5: You never smelled her. I mean, for an elderly person

429
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 5: and being by herself, she evidently took her back. While

430
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 5: I was at work and everything, and had solid white

431
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 5: hair and it always looked so clean.

432
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: So was Annie Crawford a killer. Some people don't believe

433
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: in coincidences and murder investigations, but I do. In my

434
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: first book, Death in the Air, I write about serial

435
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: killer John Reginald Christy, who murdered at least six women

436
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: in London in the nineteen forties and fifties. While he

437
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: was killing them, a woman and her baby who were

438
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: living two floors above him were found dead. Her husband,

439
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: Timothy Evans, confessed he was abusive and a raseing alcoholic.

440
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: He later recanted, but to no avail. He was eventually hanged.

441
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: John Reginald Christy confessed to all of those murders after

442
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: he was finally caught, including the murders of Timothy Evans's wife,

443
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: Beryl and her daughter Geraldine. The public had always believed

444
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: that Christy killed Beryl and Geraldine and that tim Evans

445
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: was innocent. It was too much of a coincidence, a

446
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: serial killer and another murderer living in this same building

447
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: at the same time, unaware that the other was guilty

448
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: of something horrible. But I absolutely believe it. Because domestic

449
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: violence was so pervasive in London at that time. So

450
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: is it possible that Annie was innocent, that all of

451
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: those deaths were either unrelated or accidental. I asked author

452
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: Alan Gotro to speculate a little bit about Annie's case.

453
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: It'd be interesting to find out if anybody else died

454
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 4: of poisonings now, it probably would have been a family member.

455
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 4: I don't think she would have gone outside of the family,

456
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: but I don't think she relished in the attention, the

457
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 4: media attention per se. But I think she liked being

458
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 4: kind of top dog in the family that way.

459
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: I agree. I don't think she would have poisoned anyone

460
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: outside of the family.

461
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot more deeper psychological issues there

462
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 4: because later on in life, we don't know if she

463
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: killed again.

464
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because if you subscribe to Annie

465
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: killing people in the family who she didn't like, she

466
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: really did not like this woman at all, and she

467
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: lived with them for a couple of years. But I said,

468
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: did you ever get sick? And she said, no, nothing

469
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: like that ever happened. I thought about that as my

470
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: daughter and I finished our visit to the Crawford family's gravesite.

471
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: Hold on, you know, I can't even read the tombstone.

472
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 7: But this.

473
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 4: Hair.

474
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: Let's sit down here, bab. And then I think we're

475
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: going to have to go. They're going to kind of

476
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: kick us out a little bit. I don't think we have.

477
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: After about thirty minutes, we finally found it. Hold on,

478
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: this is a relative of theirs because I've traced them. Comear,

479
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: I recognize this name, and yeah, and enjoy. This is

480
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: oh Crawford, this is it.

481
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 11: That's it, that's it. Crawford. Wow.

482
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: We found it a diition time too. Just crazy. It's

483
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: a few feet above the ground and the name Crawford

484
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: is etched on the coping on the front, and I

485
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: was a little bit surprised at how ornate it was.

486
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Marble steps allow you to step up to the top.

487
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: So this is where all four victims were buried.

488
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 9: So they're here.

489
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: They're all here, and some of their descendants are here.

490
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: People who never knew them are buried here too. They

491
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: chose to bury them in this same tomb. That's amazing.

492
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: But there were more modern markers with other family member names. Okay,

493
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: so Crawford, this is the name of it. We found Crawford,

494
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: the family members, this was their family. These were their children.

495
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, hold on, let's let me get some

496
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: good photos here. Hold this up out of the way.

497
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: There are at least nine family members in this grave,

498
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: including the four Crawfords who died in nineteen ten and

499
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven. And then I found a piece of information

500
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: in a local paper. Annie had purchased the coping for

501
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars. That's more than six thousand dollars today.

502
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: And that two hundred dollars didn't include the marble headstones

503
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: and the steps and the upkeep. This is an expensive plot,

504
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: so it looks like Annie Crawford spent a lot of

505
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: money on this grave site. Maybe Terence Fitzmorris's right. If

506
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: Annie were a killer, then money didn't seem to be

507
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: the motive, and perhaps it wasn't anger either. What's your

508
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: impression of this story.

509
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 6: Well, that's a great obviously, that's a great story.

510
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 7: You did great detective work there.

511
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: If she killed people for money, why not kill Aunt

512
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: Mary because they didn't get along at all.

513
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, Mary was the one that needed to go, and

514
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 6: Gertrude didn't touch them.

515
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: And Annie didn't get along with cecil Leo either, and

516
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: obviously she never poisoned her. So the three people who

517
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: Annie didn't like the most managed to survive, while her

518
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: parents and her two sisters died. Still, the whole thing

519
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: is very off putting to Cecil. I mean, if you were,

520
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: if you were someone hearing this story, what would you

521
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 1: think about her nanny?

522
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 11: I'd been kind of afraid of her.

523
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 9: Luckily you didn't know.

524
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: What would that That would have been a knock down

525
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: fight when you think.

526
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 5: Right, I don't know that I'd wanted to move into

527
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 5: the house with her, you know, because Pat and I

528
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 5: I did this.

529
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 11: You know, we had a discussion.

530
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: How do you know that Patt even knew?

531
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 11: Well, I see now now that I don't.

532
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 5: I can't tell you because I don't know myself how

533
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 5: he knew, if he even knew.

534
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: Is there a chance he did not know about any

535
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: of this?

536
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 11: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

537
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 5: I just cannot imagine, though, that I lived with him

538
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 5: for thirty years and he didn't mention something about it.

539
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like that your husband was loyal to

540
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: this family. Obviously, to have this woman would move in

541
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: when he had just had just been married the year

542
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: before seems like a very kind gesture.

543
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 7: To me.

544
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, he was loyal to her, for true, but

545
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: she loved him though she loved Pat. I mean, there's

546
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: no question about that.

547
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: After reading all of this and talking to relatives, I

548
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: think it's clear that Annie Crawford was not an easy

549
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: person to get along with. She was controlling and manipulative.

550
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: She might have taken morphine, but it doesn't sound like

551
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: she was an addict. She seemed to tolerate some people

552
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: but despised others. She could have been vengeful, but she

553
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: didn't seem greedy. There were no other incidents after she

554
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: moved to Texas that we know of. After visiting the grave,

555
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: I do believe that the life insurance money went mostly

556
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: to burials and services. Annie's quick reporting to life insurance

557
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: agencies might have just been pragmatic considering how little money

558
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: the family had, So I don't think she murdered four people,

559
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: as far fetched as it seems. I think that Mary, Agnes,

560
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: and Walter and Emma all died of natural causes. I

561
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: think Alice begged Annie for morphine, and Annie gave her

562
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: too much and didn't want to admit it. I also

563
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: think I could be totally wrong about all of this

564
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: and Annie Crawford was a murderer who got away with it.

565
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: I asked to cel Leo why Annie finally moved out

566
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: of the house just a few years before Annie died.

567
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: Annie was in her eighties at that time.

568
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 5: After about two years, we had observed she wasn't making

569
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 5: the trip upstairs very well. She'd fall every now and then,

570
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 5: and we had a space heater in the entrance, had

571
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 5: a four year like and had a space heater there,

572
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 5: and she'd get up before everybody else did, and she'd

573
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 5: like that heater. And this one morning, Pat and I

574
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 5: was still we were still sleeping, you know, upstairs, sleeping,

575
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 5: and we were booming. And Pat jumped up and he went,

576
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 5: What had happened is that she would turn the gas

577
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 5: jet at the wall. Then there was a hose that

578
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 5: the heater was attached to, and she turned the gas

579
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 5: on at the wall, and that gas would be just

580
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 5: pouring out. And then by the time and she was

581
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 5: slow because she was in her eighties then, and by

582
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 5: the time that she'd get to the heater and strike

583
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 5: the match, well, that gas would all accumulate. She couldn't

584
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 5: and start the house on fire. You know. Well, Pat

585
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 5: ran downstairs this one morning when we heard this boom,

586
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 5: and he said, Nanny, you don't turned it on at

587
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 5: the wall. And he didn't fuss at her, He just

588
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 5: kind of reprimanded her a little bit and helped her

589
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 5: up and everything. She was sitting on the floor and

590
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 5: I came, I was right behind him and all, and

591
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 5: he said, Nannie's not getting around as well as she

592
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 5: used to.

593
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: Annie moved out after that. She died in Port Arthur

594
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two at age eighty nine. She outlived

595
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: both of her remaining sisters. Just like Lizzie Borden, Annie

596
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: died unmarried, with no children, no close friends. Her life

597
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: was an enduring mystery. In the end, her family took

598
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: care of her, but the Crawfords might not have really

599
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: trusted her. Again. Gertrude had once told her sister Emma

600
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: that if she were to become ill, to not let

601
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: Annie take care of her, no matter how much Annie insisted.

602
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: And one more thing. When Annie was finally forced to

603
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: move out of Cecil's home, Cecil's husband Pat met with

604
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: his two sisters.

605
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 5: And Mary and Kitty had a little discussion. I remember

606
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 5: Mary said, well, I know one thinks she's not gonna

607
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 5: come live with me.

608
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this season of Tenfold War Wicked

609
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: on Exactly Right. You can hear the trailer for our

610
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: next season in one week next Monday. If you love

611
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: a good, real ghost story, my new audiobook Original The

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Speaker 1: are sold. I can't wait to tell you the real

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Speaker 1: story about the world's most famous ghost hunter, who was

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Speaker 1: the head of the world's most famous ghost club, and

616
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Speaker 1: how he investigated England's most famous haunted house. Please also

617
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Speaker 1: check out my new book All That Is Wicked, which

618
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Speaker 1: is based on the first season of Tenfold War Wicked.

619
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right tenfold War. Media production

620
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: producers Jason Whaling, Alexis and Morosi and Natalie Wren, sound

621
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork by Nick Toga.

622
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,840
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623
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625
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626
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627
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