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Speaker 1: Kay Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a

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Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session two thirty of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the

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Speaker 1: episode after a word from our sponsors. Adding a baby

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Speaker 1: to a family can happen many different ways. A few

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Speaker 1: ways we've been hearing about more recently is through the

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Speaker 1: use of egg donors and surrogates. Joining us today to

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Speaker 1: share more about the process of becoming an egg donor

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Speaker 1: or surrogate is Eloise Drain. After completing our NBA, Eloise

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Speaker 1: founded Family Inceptions, a full service surregacy and egg donation

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Speaker 1: agency here in Atlanta. She holds fertility Cafe, an educational

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Speaker 1: podcast on modern family building, and is the creator of

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Speaker 1: a digital course on independence, surrogacy Surrogacy Roadmap. Eloise's passion

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Speaker 1: and unparalleled empathy in this area blossom from her own

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Speaker 1: experience as an egg donor six times and a guestational

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Speaker 1: surrogate three times. Eloise and I chatted about the process

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Speaker 1: of becoming an egg donor or a surrogate, some of

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Speaker 1: the challenges of finding egg donors and surrogates, and some

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Speaker 1: of the common misconceptions related to surrogacy and egg donation.

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Speaker 1: If there's something that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share it with us on social media using the

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Speaker 1: hashtag tv G in session. Here's our conversation. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Elouise, thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me here. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I've really

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Speaker 1: been so interested in this topic and it definitely seems

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Speaker 1: like something more and more people are talking about, and

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Speaker 1: so we wanted to have this conversation with our community.

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Speaker 1: So could you just start by telling us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about what you do and what does the Egg

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Speaker 1: Donation and Surregacy Agency do. So I am owner, founder

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Speaker 1: of Family inceptions, and we are a full service surregacy

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Speaker 1: and egg donation agency where we match intended parents, So

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Speaker 1: families that want to work with the surrogat or egg donor,

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Speaker 1: we matched them with egg donors and surrogates that come

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Speaker 1: to us and obviously want to assist these families. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and how did you get interested in this work? Oh gosh.

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Speaker 1: The catalyst for me, quite honestly was I was a

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Speaker 1: kidney donor, first to a cousin of mine, and when

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Speaker 1: I went to visit him in California, I saw an

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Speaker 1: ad for egg donation. I was like, oh, I could

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Speaker 1: probably do that. At the time, I already had my

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Speaker 1: three kids and I just was sure thought that I

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Speaker 1: was done. I was like, oh, yeah, that sounds like

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Speaker 1: something I can do. But I was obviously fresh out

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Speaker 1: of kidney surgery, so I wasn't doing anything at any point.

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Speaker 1: And then probably about a year later, it came back

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Speaker 1: up in my head. This was in so as you

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Speaker 1: can imagine the information, you know, Dr Google wasn't Dr

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Speaker 1: Google day, right. I reached out to the agency thinking

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Speaker 1: that they were going to tell me that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: donate because I wasn't in California what they told me

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Speaker 1: was I would be a great candidate, but that black

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Speaker 1: women didn't have fertility issues and so it would take

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Speaker 1: a long time to find me a match if any.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, okay, because remember, now there

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Speaker 1: was an information out there that you can really search

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Speaker 1: to see how factual. The information they provided, which I

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Speaker 1: can tell you right now is completely fus but at

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Speaker 1: the time I didn't know that. They eventually called me back.

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Speaker 1: About nine ten months later, I went on to do

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Speaker 1: my first egg donation journey. It was actually a horrible experience.

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Speaker 1: Well I wouldn't say horrible, but it was definitely not

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Speaker 1: what I was thinking it was going to be. I

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Speaker 1: was by myself. I actually ended up hyper stimulating where

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Speaker 1: my body had overproduced eggs, which obviously was good for

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Speaker 1: the family so that they had enough, but my body

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Speaker 1: was just like, WHOA, what's going on? You have all

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Speaker 1: these eggs that you're producing at the same time. Quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: a after my retrieval an hour later, the nurse dropped

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Speaker 1: me off back at the hotel, gave me a check

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Speaker 1: and was like, thanks, call a taxi to the airport home.

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Speaker 1: And I never heard from them again, and I completely

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Speaker 1: felt used. I was just like, oh, this is not

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Speaker 1: what I was expecting. I had obviously the year before

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Speaker 1: had given my cousin to kidney, and it was obviously family, yes,

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Speaker 1: but it was still an experience and a feeling that

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Speaker 1: I had never experienced before. And I thought that doing

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Speaker 1: the donation, I was going to feel that again, and

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Speaker 1: I did it. If anything, I felt frustrated and felt

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Speaker 1: just used. After that, I was like, Okay, I'm never

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Speaker 1: going to do that again. And then probably about two

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Speaker 1: or three years later is when again something popped into

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Speaker 1: my head to become a donor once again, and I

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Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, black women don't really need donors.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably never gonna get selected, but I'll go ahead

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Speaker 1: and put my information. And there was this website at

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Speaker 1: the time that you can put classified ads, and I did,

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Speaker 1: and within two three hours I had so many emails

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Speaker 1: from women looking for black donors and saying they couldn't

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Speaker 1: find black donors. And then it was a completely different

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Speaker 1: experience from then on out. Wow, so it really sounds

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Speaker 1: like you have a personal connection to really wanting to

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Speaker 1: do this work and doing it well. Oh yes, So

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Speaker 1: in total life been a six time egg donor, and

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Speaker 1: I've been a three time sir again personally, and then

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Speaker 1: of course I'd run my own agency, and it was

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I wanted to start my

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Speaker 1: agency from one my experience as being a donor to

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Speaker 1: from them telling me that black women didn't have fertility

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Speaker 1: issues and then coming across all of these black women

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Speaker 1: that we're having fertility issues and realizing at that point

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Speaker 1: and again this is now two thousand to two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: their disparity back then, so you can only imagine what

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Speaker 1: it is now, right, So can you say more about

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Speaker 1: what it means to donate your eggs and what are

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Speaker 1: like the requirements for someone to donate their eggs? Sure, so,

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Speaker 1: in order to become an egg donor, someone that needs

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Speaker 1: to be between twenty one and twenty nine. You have

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Speaker 1: to be healthy, can't be on any kind of medications obviously,

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Speaker 1: can't be a smoker, drug user. You have to be healthy.

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Speaker 1: And yes, there is compensation right now, a first time

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Speaker 1: donor can probably receive about eight thousand dollars and you

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Speaker 1: can donate a maximum um of six times in a lifetime.

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Speaker 1: And donation definitely takes time. Although you're not going to

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Speaker 1: be on medication for an extended period of time. You're

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Speaker 1: probably only on METS for about twelve days. But the

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Speaker 1: process in getting to become a donor is a process.

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Speaker 1: You have to go through medical screening, psychological evaluation, genetic screening,

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Speaker 1: all of the things, just to make sure obviously that

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Speaker 1: you are capable of actually producing the eggs, and then

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Speaker 1: going through the actual retrieval. And unfortunately, there's no way

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Speaker 1: to know how many eggs you're going to produce, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're a first time donor. But what I can

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Speaker 1: tell you that there are a lot of black women

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Speaker 1: that are looking for black egg donors, and there is

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Speaker 1: actually a shortage right now of black donors as well

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Speaker 1: as a shortage of black sperm donors. Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: may be something that people may want to consider. What

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Speaker 1: kinds of things besides like the health considerations, are there

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Speaker 1: some psychological or emotional things that you would want to

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Speaker 1: pay attention to if you're considering this process. Absolutely, you

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Speaker 1: have to remember what you're giving up is d NA, right,

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Speaker 1: So you're giving up tissue, You're you're not necessarily giving

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Speaker 1: up quote a child, but at the same time, you

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Speaker 1: are giving up this DNA makeup that would be come

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Speaker 1: child hopefully one day, and you have to have the

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Speaker 1: emotional bandwidth to be able to realize down the road,

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Speaker 1: one day, this DNA that you're giving up is going

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Speaker 1: to become a human being and someday want to know

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Speaker 1: their origin, want to know their story, want to know

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Speaker 1: their makeup, and they have every right to know that.

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Speaker 1: And even though you may, for instance, my first donation

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Speaker 1: was anonymous, but I don't know one day if one

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Speaker 1: of those children are ever going to come and seek me,

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Speaker 1: And for me, I am totally fine with it. I've

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Speaker 1: always been quite open with the fact that I've been

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Speaker 1: a donor, that I've been a surrogate. I have children

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Speaker 1: of my own, and my children know that I've been

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Speaker 1: a donor because for me, it was never something that

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Speaker 1: I was embarrassed about or ashamed about. If anything, it

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Speaker 1: was something that I was proud to do because I

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Speaker 1: know that I was helping somebody else to be able

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Speaker 1: to fulfill their dream of having children. Maybe they couldn't

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Speaker 1: have children because they have cancer, or they have sickle cell,

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Speaker 1: or they have some kind of other disease that they

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Speaker 1: can't produce eggs, but they want to be able to

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Speaker 1: have a child, they want to be able to have

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Speaker 1: a pregnancy, they want to go through that experience, and

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Speaker 1: this is an option for them. And so how would

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Speaker 1: they get started? Would they find like an agency like yours.

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Speaker 1: They can find an agency like mine, or they can

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Speaker 1: even if they're working with the fertility clinic. Many clinics

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Speaker 1: have fertility egg banks within the fertility clinic. But I

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Speaker 1: can tell you when it comes unfortunately to black donors,

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Speaker 1: it's hard. It's difficult to find them because they're just

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Speaker 1: they're really hard to come by. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: just don't donate for a number of factors, and obviously

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Speaker 1: all legit factors, but a lot of people don't donate.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lack of education, of not really

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Speaker 1: understanding the process and how it works and what's required.

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Speaker 1: There's the history in this country of how black women

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Speaker 1: have been treated more breeders than they were a few

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Speaker 1: being human beings, and so all of those things come

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Speaker 1: into play, and it really is about educating people. And

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Speaker 1: then one of the other thing too, is everybody worries

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Speaker 1: about their fertility. How is it going to affect their fertility?

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Speaker 1: Can I say that there's guarantee that there's never going

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Speaker 1: to be a problem. Nope, can't say that. But what

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Speaker 1: I can say is I personally donated again a total

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Speaker 1: of six times, twice for the same family that wanted

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Speaker 1: to do a sibling journey. But I've donated six times.

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Speaker 1: After my last donation, I went on to have my son,

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Speaker 1: who was now fifteen, and then I went on to

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Speaker 1: be a surrogate three times and delivered a total of

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Speaker 1: four babies for other people. My fertility was fine after

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Speaker 1: my donation. And but again, every situation is different, and

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Speaker 1: you need to just be educated and informed. Even though

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Speaker 1: I'm saying all these informations right now, I would still

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Speaker 1: tell everybody go do your due diligence, Go research yourself,

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Speaker 1: go look at all of the information before you jump

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Speaker 1: into it. And don't just jump into it because you heard,

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Speaker 1: oh you can make eight thousand dollars. Yes you can,

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Speaker 1: but it's a process, and you're putting your body through

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Speaker 1: injecting hormones and having doctor's appointments and all kinds of

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Speaker 1: stuff do you have to do, So it is also

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Speaker 1: a commitment that you're going to have to do. It's

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Speaker 1: not a walk in the park where you decide and

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Speaker 1: you hear this podcast and say, Okay, that's something I

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Speaker 1: can do. No, no, no, this is a process and

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Speaker 1: it's something you have to think through because it's a

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Speaker 1: lifetime decision. It's not one And now, just because I

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Speaker 1: give my eggs and I don't think about it and

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Speaker 1: I don't worry about it, but those eggs could one

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Speaker 1: day become a human being, can you say a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about why the requirements are so tight for

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Speaker 1: egg donation. Nobody wants eggs to be donated, and then

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Speaker 1: there be issues with the embryos. And again, as I

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Speaker 1: mentioned right now, we're talking about DNA, but long term,

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Speaker 1: this could potentially become a human being, and what is

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Speaker 1: the genetic makeup of what this human being is going

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Speaker 1: to be. You don't want to be providing hereditary things

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Speaker 1: that could pass down from this child that would come about.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that they test, especially in

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Speaker 1: black people, is sickle cell. And if the donor is

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Speaker 1: a carrier and the intended father is a carrier, well

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Speaker 1: it's probably going to be with this child could potentially

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Speaker 1: be a carrier also or be where he or she's

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Speaker 1: going to have sickle cell. So it's things like that

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Speaker 1: that they try to mitigate upfront to minimize any potential

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Speaker 1: risk once this child is born. The other thing about

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Speaker 1: the psychological aspect is to make sure that you truly

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Speaker 1: are doing it for the right reasons. Yes, you can

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Speaker 1: do it for the monetary gain, but you also have

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Speaker 1: to really have a heart and a passion to want

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Speaker 1: to do it, because again, there's going to be a

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Speaker 1: time commitment, there's going to be things that you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to do, Like I said, taking injections. They're going

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Speaker 1: to need to make sure that you are really committed

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Speaker 1: and that you're going to follow through and do what

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Speaker 1: you say you're going to do. They also want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that your overall health is good as well.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to work with somebody where they start

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Speaker 1: giving you medication and then there's a problem and now

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Speaker 1: it's caused more problems for you. So there's a number

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Speaker 1: of different things that they need to consider before they say, yes,

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Speaker 1: you're a good candidate. So I want to switch gears

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Speaker 1: a little bit to talk about the surrogacy process. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you have both personal connections to this

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Speaker 1: and professional connections. Can you say a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the process of becoming a s because in some ways

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Speaker 1: it may be similar but very different of course than

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Speaker 1: a Yes, surrogacy, the process is definitely similar in that

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Speaker 1: it's something you have to think about. It is something

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Speaker 1: that you need to process through and where a donation,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of if you do it and you don't

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Speaker 1: ever want anybody to know, they probably may never know.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to surregacy, so well, that's a

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Speaker 1: different story. And then it's a different story because here

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Speaker 1: you are carrying a pregnancy for nine months and then

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Speaker 1: to give this child back to his or her parents,

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Speaker 1: and surrogacy, yes, obviously there is again monetary gain, a

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Speaker 1: substantial amount of monetary gain, but we're talking about nine

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Speaker 1: months of pregnancy including labor and delivery. So a s

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Speaker 1: r M, which is the governing body of our industry,

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Speaker 1: it stands for Assisted Society for Reproductive Medicine. They put

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Speaker 1: out guidelines that for somebody to become a surrogate, they

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Speaker 1: need to be between twenty one and forty five live.

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Speaker 1: They have to have a healthy body max index of

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Speaker 1: I think it's thirty one or thirty two. They have

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Speaker 1: to have a support system in place. They can't be

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Speaker 1: on any kind of psychiatric medications can't be bipolar taking

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Speaker 1: anti anxiety medication or depression medications and so on, And

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Speaker 1: they had to have a full term, healthy pregnancy with

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Speaker 1: the child that they are currently raising or have raised,

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Speaker 1: and they can't have any more than three C sections.

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Speaker 1: So when it comes to surrogacy, there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: stipulations there, and I can tell you probably for every

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Speaker 1: three applications that we receive on a monthly basis for surrogates,

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Speaker 1: maybe one or two actually qualify enough to proceed forward.

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Speaker 1: More from my conversation with Eloise after the break, So, Elouise,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little shock, though maybe not surprised about the

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Speaker 1: rule outs related to like medications related to mental illness

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Speaker 1: kinds of concerns. Can you say more about like why

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Speaker 1: that is? Sure one, especially with pregnancy. They don't know

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Speaker 1: the long term effects of the medications. And so if

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Speaker 1: somebody is taking prozac, for instance, and you're taking it

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Speaker 1: because you need a mood stabilizer to help you through

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Speaker 1: whatever you're going through at that time, well, surrogacy is

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Speaker 1: stressful enough as it is, and these medications for these

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Speaker 1: mood stabilizers, again, they don't know the long term effects

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Speaker 1: where a child is being developed in uter role and

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Speaker 1: how that's going to work. Is there any kind of

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Speaker 1: like psychological evaluation that's a part of this process. Oh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: both on the donor siety and the surrogate side, they

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Speaker 1: do have to complete a psychological evaluation and then in

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Speaker 1: addition to that, they either would take an M then

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Speaker 1: p I or a p a I test which is

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Speaker 1: a personality test that they utilize in addition to that

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Speaker 1: psychological evaluation with the psychologist, and then the psychologists will

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Speaker 1: give them a quote pass or fail, so this person

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Speaker 1: should move forward or this person should not get it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So are there additional requirements or can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about what is required? Maybe let's say

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Speaker 1: once you have passed these evaluations, like what does that

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Speaker 1: process look like when you continue as a sarrogate. So,

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Speaker 1: once you've passed like the preliminary to see, okay, potentially

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Speaker 1: you do qualify, you would need to complete an online

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Speaker 1: application and then you have to sign a release where

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Speaker 1: all of your prenatal and delivery records for each of

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Speaker 1: your pregnancies are requested, as well as your medical records.

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Speaker 1: So it's not where you're just completing an application and

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Speaker 1: telling people, yeah, this is how everything is. Now. Everything

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Speaker 1: has to be proved and then once that's done, medical

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Speaker 1: professional where review all your records make sure that everything

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Speaker 1: is good to go. You have to complete a background check.

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Speaker 1: You and anybody eighteen are over in your home has

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Speaker 1: to have also a background check to make sure that

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Speaker 1: there's no concerns within your background. And then you have

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Speaker 1: to again complete your psychological evaluation. They also do a

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Speaker 1: home visit. Right now, everything is pretty much virtual with

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Speaker 1: those home visits, and the home business is just to

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Speaker 1: make sure you don't live in deplorable conditions. And then

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Speaker 1: once you have completed all that, they also require you

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Speaker 1: then to also have an updated path as well as

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Speaker 1: an updated physical just to make sure again your body

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Speaker 1: is really healthy enough to proceed forward. Once all of

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Speaker 1: that is ready to go, then that's when you could

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Speaker 1: get matched with the family. As a surrogate, you get

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Speaker 1: to choose who you work with. You get to dictate

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Speaker 1: who it is that you want to work with, where

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Speaker 1: are they located, what kind of relationship you want to

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Speaker 1: have with them, how detailed of a relationship do you

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Speaker 1: want to have with them. Even you get to dictate

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Speaker 1: whether they can be in the delivery room or not.

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Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of naysayers and it comes

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Speaker 1: to surrogacy that we are exploiting women, and I think

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Speaker 1: that is the furthest from the truth. I feel with

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Speaker 1: surrogacy number one, you're choosing to make this decision of

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Speaker 1: your own accord, not because anybody is forcing you to

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Speaker 1: do it. I think the second thing is I feel

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Speaker 1: it's an empowerment because when I was a surrogate, what

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Speaker 1: I showed my children was how to be self less

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Speaker 1: and that I was willing to sacrifice for the next person.

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Speaker 1: And um believer, my faith is everything to me and

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Speaker 1: I definitely feel that this was a catalyst and an

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Speaker 1: opening quite honestly from God himself and just how things

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Speaker 1: have happened in my life that just more and more

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Speaker 1: along the way, it just proved to me like this

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Speaker 1: is what I was purposed here for. Mmmmmmmm. So you've

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Speaker 1: already talked a little bit about the emotional weight of

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Speaker 1: this kind of a process. Can you say more about

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Speaker 1: the idea of carrying a baby for all that time

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Speaker 1: and then giving them to their parents. It feels like

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Speaker 1: it would be quite an emotional toll, and so can

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Speaker 1: you say a little bit about like how you support

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Speaker 1: yourself during that time and what kind of totally can

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Speaker 1: take on you. This is why when you first apply

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Speaker 1: to become a surrogate, we do ask about who your

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Speaker 1: support is because you need to have your own personal support,

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Speaker 1: and then when you work with an agency, they should

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Speaker 1: also be support. The parents should also be support, and

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Speaker 1: then you also have access to mental health professionals throughout

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Speaker 1: the entire process. So for me and I can personally

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Speaker 1: speak on when I carried the three different surrogacy pregnancies

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Speaker 1: my first journey, I carry twins. My second one was

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Speaker 1: a boy and the third one was a girl. And

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Speaker 1: quite honestly, I didn't really get attached to the babies

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Speaker 1: at all. What I got more attached to, if you will,

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Speaker 1: was the relationship that I had with the parents. I

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Speaker 1: wanted parents that were local. I wanted parents that were

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Speaker 1: going to be involved and wanted to attend the doctor's appointments,

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Speaker 1: that wanted to be present with the pregnancy, and I

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Speaker 1: had an opportunity to learn who they were and what

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Speaker 1: they were about, and their stories and why they had

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Speaker 1: to go down this road. And for me, especially at

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Speaker 1: the end after I delivered, I missed the relationship more

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Speaker 1: with the parents than I really did with the pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: because with the pregnancy, I knew going into it this

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be my child. Did I love and

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Speaker 1: care for that child? Of course, I still love and

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Speaker 1: care for those children, but they're not my children. And

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Speaker 1: I have my own children who were now grown and

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Speaker 1: all of that. But I did not have the same

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Speaker 1: attachment with those surrogacy babies than I did with my own.

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Speaker 1: And you also have to remember what surrogacy. There's two

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Speaker 1: types of surrogacies. There's traditional surrogacy and then there's ges

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Speaker 1: stational surrogacy. Traditional surrogacy is where the surrogate is also

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00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 1: using her eggs and carrying the pregnancy. Just stational surrogacy

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Speaker 1: is where you have no genetic link to that child whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: That embryo is created outside of the body and then

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Speaker 1: transferred into your uterus. And so my first couple was

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Speaker 1: a white couple that I carried for and so I'm

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Speaker 1: a black woman, but I carried this white couple's baby.

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Speaker 1: And when these babies came out, they looked like their parents,

394
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Speaker 1: they didn't look like me. My second couple happened to

395
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Speaker 1: be from the Caribbean. And then my third couple was

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Speaker 1: another white couple. But each time again these babies didn't

397
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Speaker 1: look like me. They had no genetic ties to me whatsoever,

398
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: no DNA makeup of me. I literally was the carrier,

399
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Speaker 1: and I was grateful that I was able to help

400
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Speaker 1: this family because what I look at as what I've

401
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: done is I've changed the family's legacy, and that's what

402
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: I helped create. I helped create another family's legacy, and

403
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: it's a huge responsibility, but it's an amazing journey to undertake.

404
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: Can you say a little bit about how, maybe personally

405
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: and maybe in the clients that you've worked with, how

406
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: surrogacy impacts the carriers family? So what were those conversations

407
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: with like your kids and other family members around being

408
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: a surrogate for another family? As I mentioned when I

409
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: was even an egg donor, I've been very upfront with

410
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Speaker 1: my children. I have five kids, four that I gave

411
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Speaker 1: birth to and one was gifted to me. She's actually

412
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Speaker 1: my stepdaughter, but she's mine. So five and when I

413
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Speaker 1: did my first journey, my oldest son is fourteen, so

414
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: that they can definitely understand what it was that I

415
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: was doing. However, my youngest one, who was now fifteen

416
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: at the time. When I did my first journey, he

417
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: was I think, like three, so he really didn't understand

418
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Speaker 1: that whole process. All he saw was I want to

419
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: snuggle with mommy, and I can't because there's this big

420
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: belly in the way and I want to move it

421
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Speaker 1: out of the way. And so on. My other kids,

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00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: they were like, as long as ain't nobody babies coming

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Speaker 1: into this house, I'm good. But once, like with my

424
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: youngest son, when I did my second journey, at that point,

425
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: he was five or six, and he did understand more.

426
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Speaker 1: And how I broke it down to him was this

427
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: family and we obviously they met my children, they came

428
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: over to my house, so my family knew them. And

429
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: when my youngest son met the intended parents, we would

430
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: tell them so and so's belly is broken, but they

431
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: want to have a baby to love and to cherish

432
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: like mommy and daddy does you. So Mummy is going

433
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: to help them because my belly is not broken. We're

434
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: going to help them so that they can have a baby.

435
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: But this baby is not going to be with us,

436
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: and this baby is not ours, and this baby is

437
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: not going to look like us, and this baby is

438
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: not going to be your sibling. This is just us

439
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: helping this other family because they want to also have

440
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: a baby. And he understood that concept so well that

441
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: we could be in the grocery store and this one

442
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: time this lady stopped us or we were like in

443
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: the same aisle and she's like, oh, what do you

444
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: you know? What are you having? What do you do?

445
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: And I just said, oh, I'm having a boy. I

446
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: didn't really go much into detail, no, but he didn't.

447
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: He was like, Oh, that's so and So's baby. Her

448
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: belly is broken, and mummy's belly is not broken. So

449
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: as soon as the baby comes out, though, it's going

450
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: back to so and so's house because that's not a

451
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: baby and we don't want the baby in our house.

452
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: They want the baby in their house and they're preparing

453
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, yeah, he understands the message. Yes, yes, yes, exactly.

454
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of information out there and books

455
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: and all kinds of stuff now that really helped to

456
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: educate even your own children about this process and how

457
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: it works. I think society is where babies are made

458
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: by a mom and dad in the bedroom privacy and

459
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, yeah, but that's not the case anymore. Unfortunately,

460
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: there is a lot more families going through fertility issues.

461
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: They may not share it because a lot of people

462
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: feel that it's a private thing and they don't want

463
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: to share it. A lot of people don't know what

464
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: they're going through, and rightfully so it is their business

465
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:47,239
Speaker 1: to deal with. But unfortunately, fertility issues is becoming a

466
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: very prevalent thing in this country, and not just in

467
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: this country worldwide, and then especially when it comes to

468
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: minorities and people of color and so on and so forth. Unfortunately,

469
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: there is a huge health disparities, especially when it comes

470
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: to fertility and fertility care, because insurance companies most often

471
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: don't cover anything. I am in Atlanta, and we unfortunately

472
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: have one of the worst insurance company providers in this country,

473
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: Like especially when it comes to fertility care. Georgia is

474
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: like rated number forty nine or something. It's just ridiculous.

475
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: So so you're saying that health insurance doesn't really pay

476
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: for any of this process, none of it. Yeah, I mean,

477
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: because as I was listening to you, I'm thinking about, like,

478
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: this sounds very costly, right, and so for a family

479
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: who wants to embark up on the surrogacy process, how

480
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: do they financially prepare for this or their resources or

481
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: other things that can help with this process. Unfortunately, there

482
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: are places where you can go get grants and scholarships,

483
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: but it's very minimal. Number one, Ye're applying along with

484
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: hundreds of other people that are trying to apply to

485
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: get it. And even when you do, it might give

486
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: you maybe ten thousand or even twenty thousand dollars, but

487
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: it really isn't that significant. And when you're talking about surrogacy,

488
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: you're easily and it costs of about a hundred and

489
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: twenty to two hundred thousand dollars to do surregacy now

490
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: in the US. Okay, Yeah, so a lot of people

491
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: would have to take out fertility loans. I've known people

492
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: that have taken money out of there four oh one K.

493
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: They've taken out home equity lines, and there are people

494
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: that think outside the box. They do fundraisers. I have

495
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: a fertility podcast, and I have a guest on that

496
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: mentioned about instead of having a baby shower, have a

497
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: fertility shower. Your family and friends share with him that

498
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: what you're going through, so that instead of them giving

499
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: you money for a birthday gift or holiday or whatever. No, no,

500
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: put that in my fertility fund because we're trying and

501
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: I have a baby and we can't. And that's the

502
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: biggest thing. A lot of people don't know that so

503
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: many people in their circle are going through fertility issues.

504
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: Is just something we don't share. Another organization that people

505
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: may want to check out is Fertility for Colored Girls.

506
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: This is an organization that was founded by a black

507
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: woman who's a minister and she just started chapters all

508
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: over the US for black women that are going through

509
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: fertility issues and just coming together to help each other out.

510
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: They also do scholarships through that program. There's another one

511
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: called CADE Foundation C A d E. And they do

512
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: scholarships as well. So there's things out there. You just

513
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: have to be willing to really sit down and do

514
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: the research. Got it more from my conversation with Eloise

515
00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: after the break. So let's talk a little bit about

516
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: some of the challenges that may come up when you

517
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: are looking for US area you've already talked about, if

518
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: you're like a black family or a family of color,

519
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: it may be really difficult to find us. Aregud who

520
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: matches you culturally. Yeah, definitely matches you culturally. But remember too,

521
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: with gestational surrogacy, even if the woman was white, your

522
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: child is still going to come out looking at like

523
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: you because you're the one giving the genetic material. She's

524
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: just carrying for you. But you want someone that you're

525
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: comfortable with. You want someone that you can have a

526
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: rapport with. You know, the worst thing is having somebody

527
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: carrying your child and you can't even have a decent

528
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: conversation with her. That is just not okay. You want

529
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: someone that you know is going to take care of herself,

530
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: that's going to take care of the pregnancy. You want

531
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: to know that she has support and place because the

532
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: worst thing is that she ends up having to go

533
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: on bed rest and somebody else has to step in

534
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: and take care of her children. So you want someone

535
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: that definitely has support, and you want somebody that is

536
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: doing it for the right reasons. Yes, it is definitely

537
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: okay to want to do it for monetary gain. However,

538
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: that should not be your first motivation because when it

539
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: is where you're laid up in the hospital because you're

540
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: on bed rest and not a total stranger, but somebody

541
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: else is helping with your kids because you can't take

542
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: care of them. It all has to be worth it

543
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: for you. So can you say a little bit more

544
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: about the hesitancy that some couples have when it comes

545
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: to using a surrogate. I definitely feel like this is

546
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: something that we're hearing more, especially I think from celebrities. Right. So,

547
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Union, of course has recently been very open about

548
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: like her process, and I think we are hearing people

549
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: talk more about it. But can you say more about

550
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: some of the hesitancy people might have with this process? Oh?

551
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: Of course, I mean just to wrap your head around

552
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: the fact that somebody else is going to grow and

553
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: nurture your child and you have no say as to

554
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: what this person eat, what this person does, where this

555
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: person goes, who was she around, what does she do,

556
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: how does she take care of herself? You get to

557
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: choose who you work with, of course, but you still

558
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: have to put all your faith and trust in another

559
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: human being. And then of course the cost it is

560
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: a significant amount of money. Before it used to be

561
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: where people used to think that surrogacy was only for

562
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: the rich and the wealthy or celebrities, but that definitely

563
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: is not the case. I can tell you I work

564
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: with a lot of just running the mill. I go

565
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: to work nine to five. I've just saved up. I

566
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: desperately want a child. I can't have a child because

567
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: I've had cancer, or because I have a heart condition,

568
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: or I'm the same sex couple, whatever it is. But

569
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: you want to be able to have a child, you

570
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: don't want to do adoption. And I know a lot

571
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: of people say, well, you know, there's so many babies

572
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: out there, or why not adopt? Adoption is not that simple,

573
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: first of all. Second of all, when you're talking about adoption,

574
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: it can get actually quite pricey to do adoption, and

575
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: you have to wait around until you are picked for adoption,

576
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: especially if you want a newborn. Then people will say

577
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: there's plenty of children already here that are in the

578
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: foster care system. What people don't know about the foster

579
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: care system. Foster care isn't the setup for adoption. Foster

580
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: care was set up so that they can reunite those

581
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: families together, not to have it set up where somebody

582
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: can come in and adopt that child. It's not as

583
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: simple as just saying there's so many children out there,

584
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: just adopt so there's a number of different things that

585
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: one has to wrap their head around when it comes

586
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: to letting go of surregacy. Even the morning process of

587
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: the fact that you can't carry your own child and

588
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: you have to trust somebody else, whether you know them,

589
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: whether it's a sibling or a friend, or a cousin

590
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: or a total stranger, it's still where you have to

591
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: mourn the fact that you can't carry your child and

592
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: you have to depend on someone else to be able

593
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: to bring you your child for you. If you've already

594
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: kind of talks about some of this, but are there

595
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: other like misconceptions about this process that you think are

596
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: important for people to know about. Definitely the exploitation, for sure.

597
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the biggest issue, is the naysayers

598
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: of of exploitation and of ken Unfortunately, the cost is

599
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: a humongous factor, and just again the trust factor on

600
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: both sides. You know, the surrogates need to know that

601
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: they can trust the parents, and the parents need to

602
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: know that they can trust the surrogate. Got it. You

603
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that the hardest part for you in terms

604
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: of being a surrogate was like the bond you made

605
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: with the families and then after you deliver the baby

606
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: and give them the baby, and in that relationship kind

607
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: of goes away. Is there a process by which sometimes

608
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: surrogates like continue to kind of be a part of

609
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: the family. Are still are involved in the child's life. Oh? God, yeah,

610
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: even though after delivery it goes away in the sense

611
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: that I mean, you were in a relationship, probably talking

612
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: to them once a week, You probably see them with

613
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: the doctor's appointments and have that rapport. But when they

614
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: have that baby, well they don't have time for all

615
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: that either, and then you move on with your life.

616
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: But yes, you absolutely can continue on with relationships with

617
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: the parents. I definitely have relationships with a couple of

618
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: my parents that I carried for not my first couple,

619
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: but my second and third couple. We still have a

620
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: relationship to this day. And I have plenty of clients

621
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: and plenty of surrogates that they definitely still have a relationship.

622
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: They've attended birthday parties and baby showers and just various

623
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: get togethers or whatever. So the relationship is what you

624
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: make of it. And the thing about surrogacy, there's no

625
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: right or wrong way. It's what are you comfortable with.

626
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: You've already given us a couple of resources. Are there

627
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: other sources that you think would be helpful for anybody

628
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: maybe considering either becoming an egg donor or a surrogate,

629
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: or wanting to start the surrogacy process. I would definitely

630
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: have them go to our website, which is Family inceptions

631
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: dot com. One of the things that we do is

632
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: have an educational based website. There's so much information out

633
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: there for somebody on egg donation, what it is to

634
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: become an egg donor, the things that they need to consider,

635
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: same thing for surrogacy as well as for the intended

636
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: parents and just what the things that they need to

637
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: be aware of the questions they need to ask. Sometimes

638
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: you don't know what you don't know. The other thing

639
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: that we created as well is called Surrogacy Roadmap, because

640
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 1: there are a lot of families that want to work

641
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: with the surrogate but can't necessarily afford to work with

642
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: an agency and are trying different ways to help cut cost,

643
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: and so we developed Surrogacy Roadmap, which is an on

644
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: line course to walk people through how to do it

645
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: on their own and kind of like a d I

646
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: Y program so that you are still doing it properly,

647
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: you're doing things that will make sure that obviously at

648
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: the end you have a healthy baby, that it's all legal,

649
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: you don't have any worries about somebody trying to keep

650
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: your child at the end, or somebody trying to not

651
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: give you back the child. And just real quickly, there

652
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: are more cases of intended parents not coming for their

653
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: babies than there are. Sorry, it's not giving the babies up.

654
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: So that's another misconception out there. Everybody asks like, well,

655
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: what if she doesn't want to give us the baby.

656
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: That woman can have her own babies. She does not

657
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: need to have yours. So you just have to remember

658
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: there's more cases of that. Luckily, thank god, we've been

659
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: in business for thirteen years. We have never once had

660
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: anybody say that they didn't want to come get their

661
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: babies or that they didn't want to give up the baby.

662
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. So at what point

663
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: is it in the very beginning where like legal documents

664
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: and things are a signed talk about okay, after you

665
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: have this baby, like you're gonna give it over, and

666
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: then what is the recourse for intended parents who don't

667
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: come and get their baby? Oh? Yeah, before you take

668
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: a pill. Legal contracts have to be in place, and

669
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: the parents have to pay for all of it. Although

670
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: the surrogate does have separate legal counsel that represents her,

671
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: she gets to choose who her counsel is, but the

672
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: parents have to pay for all of that and within

673
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: the contract, and these are detailed contracts, they're not know

674
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: five temp pages long. I've seen contracts that are a

675
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: hundred pages long. So there's a lot of information that

676
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: has to be agreed upon upfront and golf of it.

677
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: Somebody never came and got their child, it's in the

678
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: contract who the guardian is going to be. And if

679
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: it was that, let's say intended parents died during the process,

680
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: well that guardian would step up. And if it was

681
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: that the intended parents just decided that they didn't want

682
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: to have the child and that child would actually go

683
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: up for adoption. Got it? Okay? Okay? Anything else that

684
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: you feel like it's important for people to know about

685
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: any of this. The thing is you definitely just have

686
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: to take your time, do your research, and when in doubts,

687
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: seek out information. There is a lot of information out

688
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: there for surrogacy, for egg donation, for embryo donation, sperm

689
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: donation for dealing with infertility. There is a lot of

690
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: information out there. You just have to be willing to

691
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: go and seek it out, and you have to be

692
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,439
Speaker 1: willing to not give up. If it is truly the

693
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: desire of your heart, this is definitely something that you

694
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: want to do. I feel like where there's a will,

695
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: there's a way, and you just have to keep at

696
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: it and eventually it will come to fruition. Thank you

697
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: so much, Eloise. I really appreciate all this information you

698
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: share with us today. Absolutely was my pleasure. Thank you

699
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: for having me. I appreciate it. I'm so glad Eloise

700
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: was able to share her expertise with us today. To

701
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: learn more about her and her work, or to check

702
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: out the resources she shared, visit the show notes at

703
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session to thirty

704
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls and

705
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: tell them to check out the episode as well. If

706
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure

707
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black

708
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to

709
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic, are just be in community

710
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: with other sisters. Come on over and join us in

711
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet,

712
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at

713
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: community that Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Thank you

714
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I

715
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

716
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: Take your care,