WEBVTT - Matt Johnson Meets World 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:21.319 Yeah, since Writer's birthday is not that far away, and 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.400 I know how much writer loves astrology. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.680 Oh, the Secret Language of birthdays? 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:28.080 Do you have this book? Writer? 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.200 Everybody had? I don't think I have it anymore, but 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.280 of course everybody and everybody's had the team. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.400 That's also the secret language of relationships, and you can 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.240 match up the two birthdays people hit this. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.159 This book was like the best seller back in the day. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.920 It was massive and I loved it. Anytime I had 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:47.520 a crush on a guy, the first thing I would 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.839 do is like, when's your birthday? Like, read about him 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.000 in this book, read about him in the relationship book. 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:58.680 So I writ it's Writer on Friday. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:00:59.800 What do we see? 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:02.920 Okay, I'm going to go to December eleventh here. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:03.440 Mm hmm. 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:16.840 He's Oh my gosh, December eleventh, the day of intensity. 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:23.160 Yes, Oh, I'm already so happy. Those born on December 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:29.000 eleventh are basically serious individuals, intense, thoughtful, and filled with purpose. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.840 They are extremely well directed toward their goals and therefore 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.880 difficult to stop. Despite their deep mental orientation, which is 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.479 not necessarily a verbal one, they often have a commanding 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:45.160 physical presence as well. This combination of thought and physicality 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.440 makes them powerful individuals. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.640 The dynamism verbal physical at all, Okay, keep going. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:59.000 The dynamism of December eleventh people usually carries them through difficulties. However, 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.680 if they are neglected, fall out of favor, or lose 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.320 the support of either their teacher or their followers, they 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.800 can experience tremendous psychological stress, sometimes even coming close to 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.200 giving up or falling apart. Fortunately, those born on this 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.760 day are capable of recovering from even the most drastic 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.680 setbacks and making a comeback, after which they are still 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:20.359 more resilient. 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.200 Agree that every sentence contradicts the one before. It's so 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.600 this is science perfectly written. It's like science. It's like 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.880 teachers or followers. And then the next sentence is like, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.359 it's they'll be really devastated, but they all come back 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.880 really easily. So you see yourself in You're gonna see 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.280 it great. Yeah, it's science. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.000 Not so much their faith in themselves, but the nature 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.400 of their indomitable energy, which seems to take over impersonally 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.840 and have a life of its own, ensures their success. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.520 As conduits of energy. Those born on this day can 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.400 have an enormous influence on those around them. Not only 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.880 their words and deeds, but even their thoughts themselves can 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.640 affect the feelings of their families, friends, and colleagues. One 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.640 look at them may reveal how they feel, for they 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.520 are quite transparent. It is difficult for them to hide 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.040 their emotions, which are usually written openly on their face 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.480 or expressed in their body language for all to see. Paradoxically, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.960 they themselves may not be aware of what is obvious 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.720 to others. In this respect, it is of great benefit 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.880 for them to have an understanding mate or friend who 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.040 can help them be more self aware and keep them 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.680 in touch with how others see them. December eleventh. People 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.280 can assume positions of great responsibility, but are not the 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:33.799 best choice for positions requiring impartial arbitration. Their primary responsibility, well, 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.560 their primary responsibility is to their work and ideas, or 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.160 perhaps their moral understandings and vision of how they wish 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.880 life to be. Those born on this day take matters 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.720 of right and wrong very seriously, and can indeed err 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.160 on the side of being condemning and judgmental. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.160 No Ah. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.320 Such judgment has a severe aspect and is usually taken 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.320 to heart by others as parents. December eleventh, People must 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.520 be extremely careful not to lay heavy pressures on their children. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.320 In fact, a live and let live policy toward the 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.960 world in general may be better than carrying the flaming 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.960 sword of an avenging angel. Furthermore, December eleventh, people must 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.560 learn to relax, have fun, and enjoy themselves. Often their 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.400 high seriousness gets in the way of others feeling lighthearted. 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.839 If they can reserve their seriousness for their work and 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.200 allow themselves to be more playful in their free time, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.400 they will greatly improve their quality of life. 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:31.080 Wow, let me see, I'm embracing more playfulness in my work. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.400 This is my work right now? Yeah, this is so much. Yeah, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.719 it's very playful. Do we have to wait till August 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:37.360 to hear mine? 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:43.359 No? No woman to read? Okay, yes, yes, he's just 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.040 so hungry. August eleventh. Here we go. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:50.760 Part of the eleven brother Sacred Path, Yes exactly August eleventh. 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.320 As you know, those weren't on the eleventh, they're part 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:55.240 of the eleventh Brothers. 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:56.520 Yes, exactly. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.280 All right, yours is the day of validation. Those born 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.080 on August eleventh have a strong desire to reveal the truth. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.280 They also have a feeling for the dark side of 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.919 life and for topics that others may be uncomfortable with. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:07.640 Yeah, I will. 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.839 It is their job, they feel, to courageously bring what 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.400 is hidden to light, to test, to probe, and if necessary, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.039 expose those who pretend to be what they are not. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:18.839 None of this is accurate. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.799 No, the next know, I think of a few text 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.800 messages where you've been like I just someone needs to 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.240 someone needs to reveal this about. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:34.680 Them, defining characteristic of Will. The first thing said, So 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.520 you're rationalizing, trying to make it work because it's August eleventh. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:39.560 Why don't we Why don't we do this? You know 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.600 what we do. Let's stop reading this. Let's take your 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.760 birthday and we'll take I'm going to take three different 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.520 ones and we'll shove from different days, include one that 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.120 including your birthday, and see if you can guess which 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:50.960 one is yours. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:52.919 Well, I have like mind memorized. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:54.440 I was going to say, Daniel is going to know 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:55.479 exactly what hers is. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.120 You can be reading August twelfth right now, for all I. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.600 Wasn't planning on reading. I'm just going to read Wills. Yeah, No, 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:04.839 this is not Will. It is extremely important for August 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.800 eleventh people to have an audience, and I was like, oh, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.720 just to have an audience for their challenging, sometimes disturbing 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:20.400 views and unusual behavior. This is not accurate anyway, Well, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.760 all right, I feel like Writers was pretty good. But anyway, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:24.719 Happy Birthday, Writer. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.279 A month away. 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.480 Happy Birthday. I am the Avenging Angel. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.120 I feel like if somebody had given Rider a sandwich 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.039 before you told him that, it would have been an 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.400 entirely different conversation. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.400 You're exactly right. Welcome to Pon meets World. I'm Daniel Fishel, 0:06:47.480 --> 0:07:03.400 I'm Writer Strong, and I'm Will Fredell. I think we 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.039 all find it cool when something from Boy Meets World 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.600 finds itself mentioned in other forms of pop culture. Some 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.040 favorites Sam Jackson performing beat poetry about the show on 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.440 Jimmy Fallon. We've been an answer on Jeopardy many times. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.320 Multiple rappers have both mentioned the show and Topanga too 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.080 many times to count, Family Guy, The Simpsons, SNL. The 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.960 list goes on and on, but one reference in a 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.000 little known debut movie from a director named Matt Johnson 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.880 is one that is a little less conventional. The Canadian 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.360 actor director made the found footage dramedy independently, eventually catching 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.120 the attention of the festival circuit and Kevin Smith, who 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.400 would join on as a producer after calling the film 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.600 about a school shooter the most important movie you'd see 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.560 all year. And in the movie, the twisted main character 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.640 played by Matt himself does the feenie call nice. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:54.800 At least someone's doing it. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.440 Not the guy who who created it. No, not that guy, 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.040 but someone is doing it, shing it, And we knew 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.560 this was a big deal. It was the rule breaking, 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.360 genre melding kid who had first caught attention with the 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.920 web series then TV show Nirvana the Band, the Show 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.680 that aired in the US on Vice, And then in 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.560 twenty twenty three he'd direct the movie BlackBerry with Glenn 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.720 Howarton and Jay Bearschell, a film that won a record 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:28.880 setting fourteen Canadian Screen Awards with seventeen nominations. And now 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.640 we are all lucky to get Nirvana the Band, the Show, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.120 the movie currently on tour in the US, then released 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.880 nationwide in February, and he's directing the upcoming a twenty 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.840 four Anthony Bourdain movie called Tony, with Dominic Cssa playing 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.680 the late chef and writer. And I have never seen 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.520 Writer or Jensen more excited for it is. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.600 They have been nerding out since they told us he 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:53.600 was coming on. It was like two little kids at 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.040 a candy store watching. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:59.760 Them just nerding out. Welcome to Pod meets World. A 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.240 man who, unlike Corey, never put the cam quarter down. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:04.920 It's Matt Johnson. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:09.120 How are you doing? 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:16.000 You have absolutely no idea A starstruck writer and my 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.360 husband Jensen and nwady even will. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.880 I know I know about Writer because I had met him, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.560 I think for the first time this year in Austin, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.120 South Soide. I met him in person and and and 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.720 I could tell that he had seen a lot of 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:34.880 my films yah were He. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.040 Was probably effusive in his in his you know what, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:39.640 it really. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.160 Does go both ways because I was explained to him. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.199 I'm not sure how much of this you guys want 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.480 to talk about on your show, but but your show 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:53.760 was like the seminal piece of I even use the 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.800 term literature for me as a young person to understand 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.360 not only stories but archetypes of characters. My name's Afew, 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.640 my brother's name is Eric, and and Mike. We had 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.520 two sisters who were both obsessive. Obsessive boy meets World fans, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.920 and so we watched it all the time. I'm in Canada, 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:15.360 so it was a different We didn't have TGAF. We 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.600 had what I mean, you might even know what it 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.720 was called, but they played you and the teenage Witch, okay, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.760 and I don't know what else, but we watched the 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:28.040 show religiously and it was fundamental to my understanding of 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.839 story and character. Fundamentally. There's even Boy Meets World references 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:32.600 in my early fans. 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.440 I was just going to ask you I wanted to 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.520 get it out of the way first, that there was 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.040 a feenie call in The Dirties, which was your first movie. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.720 So was there a reason that you had the psychopath character? 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:44.199 Say it? 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.880 Or look, I'm going to tell you something. No, I'll 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.760 tell you something about Will's character. Okay, And this is 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:56.200 this is deeply sincere. When I was young, I saw 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.920 Eric Matthews as the kind of person I wanted to be. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.960 I saw him. I remember these episode where he walks 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.280 he's defending his brother in like over something, and he 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.079 walks in and music to a like a law and 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.200 Order style show is playing, and then he puts his 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:13.880 briefcase on the table and opens it up and he 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.360 was playing a tape. If you look at just that, 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.840 just that little tiny moment of what he thought was appropriate. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.439 And it's not like he's laughing saying I'm hilarious. He 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.360 does it because he's like, oh, yeah, I'm pretending to 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.439 be an adult. In that, you actually see the genesis 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.400 of a lot of the characters that I wind up 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.920 playing in all of my works, people who have a 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.800 kind of Calvin and Hobbes style approach to reality and 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.680 play where it's like to be an adult is to 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.520 is to pretend to be an adult, and they don't 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.920 actually make the jump, and in not making the jump 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.680 to being serious about it, there's something to that that 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.920 I can't even put my finger on it. But that 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.160 is what I was doing in the Dirties. I don't 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.080 it's funny. I mean, obviously I don't view that character 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.880 as as psychopathic at you him as as having a 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.200 detachment from the real rules of reality. And so he's 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.560 pretending to be a school shooter because to him, it's 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.800 just play in the same way that Eric Matthews would 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.240 constantly play at the world of being an adult, because 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:23.640 rightfully so, I would say the consequences didn't really concern him. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.320 He's sort of above it. He was the character that 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.200 people clapped for when he appeared. He was almost like 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.000 the imaginary friend, you know, and so he had that, 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.160 he had that power and that that they like a 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:38.280 or clearly a lasting impact. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.160 Well, I think the I think the essential quality of 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.360 that too is the earnestness, right, like the commitment to it. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.400 You're never winking, you know, like none of your characters ever. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:48.760 I mean, you have moments, especially in the new form, 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.040 where you turn to the camera and you say, like, brilliant, 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.600 this copyright is going to be a you know, you 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.719 have moments but but you but but the earnestness, the 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.480 heart is always there. There's always so such commitment. And 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.840 that is a very Eric Matthews thing because like Will 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.199 never you know, he never looked at the audience and 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.040 was like I know what I'm doing as stupid. He 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:07.880 was just in it and you're just like, oh my god, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:09.000 this guy's going for it. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.960 Another thing that that this character does so brilliantly, and 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.640 I mean we're talking about him, he's right here, but 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:18.200 he is never ever cruel. Yeah right, And this is 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.160 so and it's so important and again it wind up 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.280 I guess so. I'm sure it's silly to even talk 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.480 about this way, but it winds up forming a layer 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.160 of my own sense of morality as a young person, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.520 where I'm seeing what Eric Matthews is doing. I mean, 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.160 it's an extremely moral show, like the show is. I mean, 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.040 it's a children's show that is kind of about teaching 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.880 tiny moral stories. But the way Eric approached it was 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.640 that you can bend the rules so long as your 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:53.600 intention is actually goodness for everybody. Right. He can lie, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.120 he can he can go into, you know, like kind 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.520 of moral gray zones where the adults can be like, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.040 this guy's trouble, but nobody would ever be like, don't 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.880 stay away from this guy, like he's not actually morally dangerous, right, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.920 And I think that that's something that left the lasting 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.440 impact on me and I in some ways. It's it's 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.680 why a lot of my work is in some ways 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.800 infantile would be the negative way to say it, but 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:25.479 childlike concerned with an adolescent morality formation. Where the characters 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.040 in the Van of the Band, in the Dirties in 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.680 Everything in BlackBerry is another great example, like the characters 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.840 form a morality around the idea that my intention is 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.720 the best for you, and so you must forgive my 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.440 behavior because because you have to look beyond it to 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.960 see that, yeah, I'm screwing around and I'm not maybe 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.920 taking this as seriously as you would like me to, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.640 but my intention is actually for you to be Like 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.120 in the in the episode I bring up, his intention 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.480 is to get his brother out of trouble, right right, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.080 even though it's absertain what he's doing is insane, his 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.560 intention is so pure and good that everybody can't just 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.920 help but kind of laugh at him. And he's also 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.240 the court jesture. He exposes the fact that this the 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:14.960 adult system built around the Matthews family is everybody's playing 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.160 right the soul Like anyway, I could. I could go 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.880 on and on about that, but first the morality of 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:22.240 the show. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:23.320 Yeah, no, it's amazing. 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.880 But also I just wanted to add that everything you're 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.360 saying about Eric, I had planned out from day one, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:29.480 and of course. 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.600 You're feen years old, being like a philosophical approach to 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.320 the character that he's going to transcend the script. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.600 I am going to be the moral center of this show. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.200 I had it planned from day dot. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.280 So I was not saying that's actually a good way 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.720 into Matt, like, like, how much did you plan this out? 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.200 Because you're talking about this and you're you're you're breaking 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.800 down your own sort of sensibility wonderfully. And this is 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.840 what I felt like the moment I saw BlackBerry. I 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.000 watched that film, you know, honestly, like there were a 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:02.800 couple films that came out around the same time that 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.200 were all like the story of a product, you know, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.200 there was like Air and I was just like over 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.360 that as I was like a Tetris movie do we 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.600 need and somebody was like, no, no, no, no, no, BlackBerry 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.560 is the one to watch. And I started watching it, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.280 and about halfway through, I was like, oh my god, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.280 this is this is so brilliant, this is so well written. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.720 And I immediately knew. I was like, and that guy 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.480 on the screen is leading this entire thing. I could 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.360 just feel it. And then of course that weekend I 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.720 did a deep dive and I watched all of your 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.720 movies and like, I just became obsessed. And I feel 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.800 like you're describing exactly exactly what I felt, which is 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.720 that you know, you have this this insistence that character 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.160 sort of overtakes plot and overtakes story and the character 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.600 themself is like seeing themselves in a plot and they 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.360 are able to, you know, influence people around them. I 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.200 just think it's so brilliant. Was that always? Like did 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.480 that happen just naturally? Like where did Like I'm assuming 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.400 Nirvana the Man started from you guys just improving and 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.080 playing together and discovering. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.280 Yes, Jay McCarroll what the other guy and also the 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.800 co creator of the show. It was a childhood friend 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.280 of mine. It's sort of after Boy Means Like I 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.320 was watching Boy Means World as a true adolescent, and 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.760 then by high school. I don't know, I wonder if 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.399 he was even still on the air, but but I'm 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.160 basically trying to put it in your timeline to try 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.439 to figure it out where this happened in terms of 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.400 your own lives. But in high school I met him 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.359 and he went to a different high school, and we 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.760 became very fast friends because we had a similar sensibility. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.080 We were from the same part of town, and so 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.800 all of our references were the same, and it was 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.760 just kind of play. He's a piano savant, like he's 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.600 a true literally can play any song on the piano. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.080 After just hearing it for ten seconds, like he's a 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.320 child genius. He's like he's like Mozart or Dama Dais. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.159 If you've ever seen that, feel like that, that accurately 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.600 shows what he's like. He can he composed in the 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.560 run of the band of the movie composed all that 0:17:55.680 --> 0:18:00.359 music he did. He did the music in BlackBerry is 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.800 like a once in a lifetime talent in terms of 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.439 sitting at a piano and being able to just create anything. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.199 And I, in my own way, I think had a 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:13.600 kind of jealousy envy of that kind of magic, which 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.720 is what it seems like when you're a kid. There's 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.040 even a Boymans episode about this where it's like somebody 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.280 is quite good at something and there's a jealousy. 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.720 Alexand Alexander Niqui sa. 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:27.639 And you're like, oh, I wish I could be this 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.120 and so and that. I think that feeling of wanting 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.520 to match him brought me into a place where it's 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.199 like I would improvise scenarios or talk and and and 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.160 so we created that dynamic between a piano player who 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.800 could basically play anything and somebody with a microphone who 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.640 had sort of in a you know, almost like Jack 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:53.800 Kerouac like talks poetry, talk in live narration, and that 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.720 just kept developing and developing until after I had gone 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.159 through undergraduate film school and we started living together in 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.119 downtown Toronto. We just developed it into a web series. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.399 But your question was like, how much of this was 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:10.520 a plan? Like, really none. I could not articulate the 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.760 themes of my own work. I could not have this 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.600 conversation with you about the influence of Boy Meets World 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.240 over me. When I decided to put that in my 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.160 first movie to Dirteys, I just knew it felt right. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:28.760 I just knew that this character referencing Eric Matthews yelling 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:33.919 at his conscience, which is sort of what Phoenie represents 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.640 in the show, yelling to his conscience to say, come 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.000 out and play with me. I couldn't explain it, but 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.040 it just felt right. And the older I get, the 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.960 further away from that, I see it creating a very 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.040 clear path towards the things that I'm interested in, which 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.359 come from again this kind of adolescence, adolescent sense of play, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.480 and the lasting impact of the games we play when 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:02.000 we're kids into our adulthood. And it's why I actually 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.959 think your show is so brilliantly named, because although it 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.160 may seem trite, it's like, oh yeah, boy, meet World, 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.679 It's like, that's not really what it's about. Everybody in 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.280 that show is kind of learning the script for how 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.360 to be an adult. The Panga is acting way beyond 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.719 her maturity. It's absurd, right to the point where I 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.080 love this episode where you cut your hair thinking that 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.720 you will have absolutely no reaction, you're beyond vanity, etc. 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:34.200 Only to be struck instantly by the fact that I can't. 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:40.359 I like, my persona was so strong it fooled even me, right, 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.760 And so all these characters are pretending to be adults, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.960 which is something that had a lasting impact on me. 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.159 All my movies in some ways are about are about 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.840 people who haven't gone through a write of passage or 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.440 haven't actually transformed into adults pretending to be and the 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.439 magic that you get from still being in that of 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.680 thinking anything's possible, that that you make the rules, et cetera, 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:04.080 et cetera. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.840 Well, I'm so curious because, like, to me, this gets 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.159 to I'm really curious about your process, especially how it 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.960 started versus where it's now. Because you're in your work, 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.560 you have so much tension between improvisation, like clearly improvisation, 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:18.760 Like it seems to me like you're just riffing. You're 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.760 just in front of a camera and you're keeping it 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.600 loose with the camera to keep up with you as 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.400 an actor or your fellow actors. But then structurally you 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.200 always have a way to bring it full circle where 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.520 everything sort of comes back around. So I want to know, like, 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.480 even in the early episodes in Nirvana, were you were 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.800