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Speaker 1: Yeah, since Writer's birthday is not that far away, and

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Speaker 1: I know how much writer loves astrology.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the Secret Language of birthdays?

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Speaker 1: Do you have this book? Writer?

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Speaker 2: Everybody had? I don't think I have it anymore, but

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Speaker 2: of course everybody and everybody's had the team.

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Speaker 1: That's also the secret language of relationships, and you can

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Speaker 1: match up the two birthdays people hit this.

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Speaker 2: This book was like the best seller back in the day.

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Speaker 1: It was massive and I loved it. Anytime I had

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Speaker 1: a crush on a guy, the first thing I would

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Speaker 1: do is like, when's your birthday? Like, read about him

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Speaker 1: in this book, read about him in the relationship book.

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Speaker 3: So I writ it's Writer on Friday.

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Speaker 4: What do we see?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to go to December eleventh here.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 5: He's Oh my gosh, December eleventh, the day of intensity.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, I'm already so happy. Those born on December

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Speaker 1: eleventh are basically serious individuals, intense, thoughtful, and filled with purpose.

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Speaker 1: They are extremely well directed toward their goals and therefore

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Speaker 1: difficult to stop. Despite their deep mental orientation, which is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a verbal one, they often have a commanding

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Speaker 1: physical presence as well. This combination of thought and physicality

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Speaker 1: makes them powerful individuals.

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Speaker 2: The dynamism verbal physical at all, Okay, keep going.

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Speaker 1: The dynamism of December eleventh people usually carries them through difficulties. However,

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Speaker 1: if they are neglected, fall out of favor, or lose

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Speaker 1: the support of either their teacher or their followers, they

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Speaker 1: can experience tremendous psychological stress, sometimes even coming close to

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Speaker 1: giving up or falling apart. Fortunately, those born on this

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Speaker 1: day are capable of recovering from even the most drastic

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Speaker 1: setbacks and making a comeback, after which they are still

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Speaker 1: more resilient.

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Speaker 2: Agree that every sentence contradicts the one before. It's so

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Speaker 2: this is science perfectly written. It's like science. It's like

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Speaker 2: teachers or followers. And then the next sentence is like,

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Speaker 2: it's they'll be really devastated, but they all come back

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Speaker 2: really easily. So you see yourself in You're gonna see

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Speaker 2: it great. Yeah, it's science.

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Speaker 1: Not so much their faith in themselves, but the nature

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Speaker 1: of their indomitable energy, which seems to take over impersonally

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Speaker 1: and have a life of its own, ensures their success.

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Speaker 1: As conduits of energy. Those born on this day can

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Speaker 1: have an enormous influence on those around them. Not only

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Speaker 1: their words and deeds, but even their thoughts themselves can

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Speaker 1: affect the feelings of their families, friends, and colleagues. One

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Speaker 1: look at them may reveal how they feel, for they

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Speaker 1: are quite transparent. It is difficult for them to hide

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Speaker 1: their emotions, which are usually written openly on their face

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Speaker 1: or expressed in their body language for all to see. Paradoxically,

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Speaker 1: they themselves may not be aware of what is obvious

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Speaker 1: to others. In this respect, it is of great benefit

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Speaker 1: for them to have an understanding mate or friend who

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Speaker 1: can help them be more self aware and keep them

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Speaker 1: in touch with how others see them. December eleventh. People

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Speaker 1: can assume positions of great responsibility, but are not the

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Speaker 1: best choice for positions requiring impartial arbitration. Their primary responsibility, well,

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Speaker 1: their primary responsibility is to their work and ideas, or

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Speaker 1: perhaps their moral understandings and vision of how they wish

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Speaker 1: life to be. Those born on this day take matters

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Speaker 1: of right and wrong very seriously, and can indeed err

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Speaker 1: on the side of being condemning and judgmental.

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Speaker 4: No Ah.

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Speaker 1: Such judgment has a severe aspect and is usually taken

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Speaker 1: to heart by others as parents. December eleventh, People must

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Speaker 1: be extremely careful not to lay heavy pressures on their children.

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Speaker 1: In fact, a live and let live policy toward the

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Speaker 1: world in general may be better than carrying the flaming

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Speaker 1: sword of an avenging angel. Furthermore, December eleventh, people must

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Speaker 1: learn to relax, have fun, and enjoy themselves. Often their

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Speaker 1: high seriousness gets in the way of others feeling lighthearted.

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Speaker 1: If they can reserve their seriousness for their work and

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Speaker 1: allow themselves to be more playful in their free time,

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Speaker 1: they will greatly improve their quality of life.

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Speaker 2: Wow, let me see, I'm embracing more playfulness in my work.

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Speaker 2: This is my work right now? Yeah, this is so much. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's very playful. Do we have to wait till August

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Speaker 2: to hear mine?

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Speaker 1: No? No woman to read? Okay, yes, yes, he's just

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Speaker 1: so hungry. August eleventh. Here we go.

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Speaker 2: Part of the eleven brother Sacred Path, Yes exactly August eleventh.

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Speaker 1: As you know, those weren't on the eleventh, they're part

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Speaker 1: of the eleventh Brothers.

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Speaker 6: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: All right, yours is the day of validation. Those born

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Speaker 1: on August eleventh have a strong desire to reveal the truth.

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Speaker 1: They also have a feeling for the dark side of

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Speaker 1: life and for topics that others may be uncomfortable with.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I will.

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Speaker 1: It is their job, they feel, to courageously bring what

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Speaker 1: is hidden to light, to test, to probe, and if necessary,

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Speaker 1: expose those who pretend to be what they are not.

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Speaker 6: None of this is accurate.

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Speaker 1: No, the next know, I think of a few text

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Speaker 1: messages where you've been like I just someone needs to

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Speaker 1: someone needs to reveal this about.

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Speaker 2: Them, defining characteristic of Will. The first thing said, So

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Speaker 2: you're rationalizing, trying to make it work because it's August eleventh.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we Why don't we do this? You know

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Speaker 2: what we do. Let's stop reading this. Let's take your

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Speaker 2: birthday and we'll take I'm going to take three different

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Speaker 2: ones and we'll shove from different days, include one that

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Speaker 2: including your birthday, and see if you can guess which

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Speaker 2: one is yours.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have like mind memorized.

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Speaker 6: I was going to say, Daniel is going to know

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Speaker 6: exactly what hers is.

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Speaker 2: You can be reading August twelfth right now, for all I.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't planning on reading. I'm just going to read Wills. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: this is not Will. It is extremely important for August

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Speaker 1: eleventh people to have an audience, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just to have an audience for their challenging, sometimes disturbing

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Speaker 1: views and unusual behavior. This is not accurate anyway, Well,

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Speaker 1: all right, I feel like Writers was pretty good. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: Happy Birthday, Writer.

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Speaker 6: A month away.

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Speaker 2: Happy Birthday. I am the Avenging Angel.

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Speaker 3: I feel like if somebody had given Rider a sandwich

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Speaker 3: before you told him that, it would have been an

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Speaker 3: entirely different conversation.

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Speaker 1: You're exactly right. Welcome to Pon meets World. I'm Daniel Fishel,

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Speaker 1: I'm Writer Strong, and I'm Will Fredell. I think we

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Speaker 1: all find it cool when something from Boy Meets World

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Speaker 1: finds itself mentioned in other forms of pop culture. Some

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Speaker 1: favorites Sam Jackson performing beat poetry about the show on

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon. We've been an answer on Jeopardy many times.

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Speaker 1: Multiple rappers have both mentioned the show and Topanga too

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Speaker 1: many times to count, Family Guy, The Simpsons, SNL. The

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Speaker 1: list goes on and on, but one reference in a

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Speaker 1: little known debut movie from a director named Matt Johnson

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Speaker 1: is one that is a little less conventional. The Canadian

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Speaker 1: actor director made the found footage dramedy independently, eventually catching

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Speaker 1: the attention of the festival circuit and Kevin Smith, who

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Speaker 1: would join on as a producer after calling the film

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Speaker 1: about a school shooter the most important movie you'd see

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Speaker 1: all year. And in the movie, the twisted main character

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Speaker 1: played by Matt himself does the feenie call nice.

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Speaker 6: At least someone's doing it.

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Speaker 1: Not the guy who who created it. No, not that guy,

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Speaker 1: but someone is doing it, shing it, And we knew

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Speaker 1: this was a big deal. It was the rule breaking,

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Speaker 1: genre melding kid who had first caught attention with the

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Speaker 1: web series then TV show Nirvana the Band, the Show

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Speaker 1: that aired in the US on Vice, And then in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three he'd direct the movie BlackBerry with Glenn

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Speaker 1: Howarton and Jay Bearschell, a film that won a record

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Speaker 1: setting fourteen Canadian Screen Awards with seventeen nominations. And now

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Speaker 1: we are all lucky to get Nirvana the Band, the Show,

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Speaker 1: the movie currently on tour in the US, then released

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Speaker 1: nationwide in February, and he's directing the upcoming a twenty

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Speaker 1: four Anthony Bourdain movie called Tony, with Dominic Cssa playing

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Speaker 1: the late chef and writer. And I have never seen

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Speaker 1: Writer or Jensen more excited for it is.

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Speaker 3: They have been nerding out since they told us he

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Speaker 3: was coming on. It was like two little kids at

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Speaker 3: a candy store watching.

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Speaker 1: Them just nerding out. Welcome to Pod meets World. A

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Speaker 1: man who, unlike Corey, never put the cam quarter down.

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Speaker 1: It's Matt Johnson.

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Speaker 4: How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: You have absolutely no idea A starstruck writer and my

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Speaker 1: husband Jensen and nwady even will.

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Speaker 4: I know I know about Writer because I had met him,

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Speaker 4: I think for the first time this year in Austin,

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Speaker 4: South Soide. I met him in person and and and

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Speaker 4: I could tell that he had seen a lot of

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Speaker 4: my films yah were He.

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Speaker 1: Was probably effusive in his in his you know what,

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Speaker 1: it really.

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Speaker 4: Does go both ways because I was explained to him.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure how much of this you guys want

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Speaker 4: to talk about on your show, but but your show

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Speaker 4: was like the seminal piece of I even use the

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Speaker 4: term literature for me as a young person to understand

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Speaker 4: not only stories but archetypes of characters. My name's Afew,

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Speaker 4: my brother's name is Eric, and and Mike. We had

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Speaker 4: two sisters who were both obsessive. Obsessive boy meets World fans,

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Speaker 4: and so we watched it all the time. I'm in Canada,

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Speaker 4: so it was a different We didn't have TGAF. We

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Speaker 4: had what I mean, you might even know what it

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Speaker 4: was called, but they played you and the teenage Witch, okay,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know what else, but we watched the

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Speaker 4: show religiously and it was fundamental to my understanding of

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Speaker 4: story and character. Fundamentally. There's even Boy Meets World references

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Speaker 4: in my early fans.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you I wanted to

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Speaker 1: get it out of the way first, that there was

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Speaker 1: a feenie call in The Dirties, which was your first movie.

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Speaker 1: So was there a reason that you had the psychopath character?

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Speaker 2: Say it?

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Speaker 4: Or look, I'm going to tell you something. No, I'll

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Speaker 4: tell you something about Will's character. Okay, And this is

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Speaker 4: this is deeply sincere. When I was young, I saw

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Speaker 4: Eric Matthews as the kind of person I wanted to be.

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Speaker 4: I saw him. I remember these episode where he walks

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Speaker 4: he's defending his brother in like over something, and he

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Speaker 4: walks in and music to a like a law and

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Speaker 4: Order style show is playing, and then he puts his

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Speaker 4: briefcase on the table and opens it up and he

201
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Speaker 4: was playing a tape. If you look at just that,

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Speaker 4: just that little tiny moment of what he thought was appropriate.

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Speaker 4: And it's not like he's laughing saying I'm hilarious. He

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Speaker 4: does it because he's like, oh, yeah, I'm pretending to

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Speaker 4: be an adult. In that, you actually see the genesis

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Speaker 4: of a lot of the characters that I wind up

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Speaker 4: playing in all of my works, people who have a

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Speaker 4: kind of Calvin and Hobbes style approach to reality and

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Speaker 4: play where it's like to be an adult is to

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Speaker 4: is to pretend to be an adult, and they don't

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Speaker 4: actually make the jump, and in not making the jump

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Speaker 4: to being serious about it, there's something to that that

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Speaker 4: I can't even put my finger on it. But that

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Speaker 4: is what I was doing in the Dirties. I don't

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Speaker 4: it's funny. I mean, obviously I don't view that character

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Speaker 4: as as psychopathic at you him as as having a

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Speaker 4: detachment from the real rules of reality. And so he's

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Speaker 4: pretending to be a school shooter because to him, it's

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Speaker 4: just play in the same way that Eric Matthews would

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Speaker 4: constantly play at the world of being an adult, because

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Speaker 4: rightfully so, I would say the consequences didn't really concern him.

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Speaker 4: He's sort of above it. He was the character that

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Speaker 4: people clapped for when he appeared. He was almost like

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Speaker 4: the imaginary friend, you know, and so he had that,

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Speaker 4: he had that power and that that they like a

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Speaker 4: or clearly a lasting impact.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the I think the essential quality of

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Speaker 2: that too is the earnestness, right, like the commitment to it.

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Speaker 2: You're never winking, you know, like none of your characters ever.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you have moments, especially in the new form,

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Speaker 2: where you turn to the camera and you say, like, brilliant,

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Speaker 2: this copyright is going to be a you know, you

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Speaker 2: have moments but but you but but the earnestness, the

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Speaker 2: heart is always there. There's always so such commitment. And

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Speaker 2: that is a very Eric Matthews thing because like Will

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Speaker 2: never you know, he never looked at the audience and

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Speaker 2: was like I know what I'm doing as stupid. He

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Speaker 2: was just in it and you're just like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: this guy's going for it.

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Speaker 4: Another thing that that this character does so brilliantly, and

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Speaker 4: I mean we're talking about him, he's right here, but

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Speaker 4: he is never ever cruel. Yeah right, And this is

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Speaker 4: so and it's so important and again it wind up

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Speaker 4: I guess so. I'm sure it's silly to even talk

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Speaker 4: about this way, but it winds up forming a layer

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Speaker 4: of my own sense of morality as a young person,

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Speaker 4: where I'm seeing what Eric Matthews is doing. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's an extremely moral show, like the show is. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's a children's show that is kind of about teaching

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Speaker 4: tiny moral stories. But the way Eric approached it was

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Speaker 4: that you can bend the rules so long as your

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Speaker 4: intention is actually goodness for everybody. Right. He can lie,

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Speaker 4: he can he can go into, you know, like kind

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Speaker 4: of moral gray zones where the adults can be like,

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Speaker 4: this guy's trouble, but nobody would ever be like, don't

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Speaker 4: stay away from this guy, like he's not actually morally dangerous, right,

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Speaker 4: And I think that that's something that left the lasting

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Speaker 4: impact on me and I in some ways. It's it's

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Speaker 4: why a lot of my work is in some ways

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Speaker 4: infantile would be the negative way to say it, but

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Speaker 4: childlike concerned with an adolescent morality formation. Where the characters

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Speaker 4: in the Van of the Band, in the Dirties in

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Speaker 4: Everything in BlackBerry is another great example, like the characters

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Speaker 4: form a morality around the idea that my intention is

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Speaker 4: the best for you, and so you must forgive my

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Speaker 4: behavior because because you have to look beyond it to

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Speaker 4: see that, yeah, I'm screwing around and I'm not maybe

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Speaker 4: taking this as seriously as you would like me to,

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Speaker 4: but my intention is actually for you to be Like

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Speaker 4: in the in the episode I bring up, his intention

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Speaker 4: is to get his brother out of trouble, right right,

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Speaker 4: even though it's absertain what he's doing is insane, his

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Speaker 4: intention is so pure and good that everybody can't just

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Speaker 4: help but kind of laugh at him. And he's also

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Speaker 4: the court jesture. He exposes the fact that this the

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Speaker 4: adult system built around the Matthews family is everybody's playing

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Speaker 4: right the soul Like anyway, I could. I could go

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Speaker 4: on and on about that, but first the morality of

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Speaker 4: the show.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, no, it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: But also I just wanted to add that everything you're

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Speaker 3: saying about Eric, I had planned out from day one,

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Speaker 3: and of course.

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Speaker 4: You're feen years old, being like a philosophical approach to

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Speaker 4: the character that he's going to transcend the script.

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Speaker 3: I am going to be the moral center of this show.

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Speaker 3: I had it planned from day dot.

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Speaker 2: So I was not saying that's actually a good way

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Speaker 2: into Matt, like, like, how much did you plan this out?

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Speaker 2: Because you're talking about this and you're you're you're breaking

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Speaker 2: down your own sort of sensibility wonderfully. And this is

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Speaker 2: what I felt like the moment I saw BlackBerry. I

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Speaker 2: watched that film, you know, honestly, like there were a

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Speaker 2: couple films that came out around the same time that

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Speaker 2: were all like the story of a product, you know,

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Speaker 2: there was like Air and I was just like over

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Speaker 2: that as I was like a Tetris movie do we

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Speaker 2: need and somebody was like, no, no, no, no, no, BlackBerry

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Speaker 2: is the one to watch. And I started watching it,

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Speaker 2: and about halfway through, I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: this is this is so brilliant, this is so well written.

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Speaker 2: And I immediately knew. I was like, and that guy

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Speaker 2: on the screen is leading this entire thing. I could

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Speaker 2: just feel it. And then of course that weekend I

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Speaker 2: did a deep dive and I watched all of your

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Speaker 2: movies and like, I just became obsessed. And I feel

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Speaker 2: like you're describing exactly exactly what I felt, which is

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Speaker 2: that you know, you have this this insistence that character

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Speaker 2: sort of overtakes plot and overtakes story and the character

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Speaker 2: themself is like seeing themselves in a plot and they

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Speaker 2: are able to, you know, influence people around them. I

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Speaker 2: just think it's so brilliant. Was that always? Like did

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Speaker 2: that happen just naturally? Like where did Like I'm assuming

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Speaker 2: Nirvana the Man started from you guys just improving and

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Speaker 2: playing together and discovering.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Jay McCarroll what the other guy and also the

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Speaker 4: co creator of the show. It was a childhood friend

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Speaker 4: of mine. It's sort of after Boy Means Like I

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Speaker 4: was watching Boy Means World as a true adolescent, and

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Speaker 4: then by high school. I don't know, I wonder if

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Speaker 4: he was even still on the air, but but I'm

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Speaker 4: basically trying to put it in your timeline to try

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Speaker 4: to figure it out where this happened in terms of

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Speaker 4: your own lives. But in high school I met him

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Speaker 4: and he went to a different high school, and we

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Speaker 4: became very fast friends because we had a similar sensibility.

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Speaker 4: We were from the same part of town, and so

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Speaker 4: all of our references were the same, and it was

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Speaker 4: just kind of play. He's a piano savant, like he's

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Speaker 4: a true literally can play any song on the piano.

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Speaker 4: After just hearing it for ten seconds, like he's a

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Speaker 4: child genius. He's like he's like Mozart or Dama Dais.

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Speaker 4: If you've ever seen that, feel like that, that accurately

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Speaker 4: shows what he's like. He can he composed in the

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Speaker 4: run of the band of the movie composed all that

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Speaker 4: music he did. He did the music in BlackBerry is

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Speaker 4: like a once in a lifetime talent in terms of

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Speaker 4: sitting at a piano and being able to just create anything.

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Speaker 4: And I, in my own way, I think had a

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Speaker 4: kind of jealousy envy of that kind of magic, which

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Speaker 4: is what it seems like when you're a kid. There's

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Speaker 4: even a Boymans episode about this where it's like somebody

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Speaker 4: is quite good at something and there's a jealousy.

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Speaker 6: Alexand Alexander Niqui sa.

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Speaker 4: And you're like, oh, I wish I could be this

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Speaker 4: and so and that. I think that feeling of wanting

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Speaker 4: to match him brought me into a place where it's

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Speaker 4: like I would improvise scenarios or talk and and and

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Speaker 4: so we created that dynamic between a piano player who

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Speaker 4: could basically play anything and somebody with a microphone who

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Speaker 4: had sort of in a you know, almost like Jack

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Speaker 4: Kerouac like talks poetry, talk in live narration, and that

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Speaker 4: just kept developing and developing until after I had gone

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Speaker 4: through undergraduate film school and we started living together in

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Speaker 4: downtown Toronto. We just developed it into a web series.

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Speaker 4: But your question was like, how much of this was

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Speaker 4: a plan? Like, really none. I could not articulate the

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Speaker 4: themes of my own work. I could not have this

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Speaker 4: conversation with you about the influence of Boy Meets World

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Speaker 4: over me. When I decided to put that in my

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Speaker 4: first movie to Dirteys, I just knew it felt right.

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Speaker 4: I just knew that this character referencing Eric Matthews yelling

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Speaker 4: at his conscience, which is sort of what Phoenie represents

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Speaker 4: in the show, yelling to his conscience to say, come

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Speaker 4: out and play with me. I couldn't explain it, but

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Speaker 4: it just felt right. And the older I get, the

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Speaker 4: further away from that, I see it creating a very

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Speaker 4: clear path towards the things that I'm interested in, which

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Speaker 4: come from again this kind of adolescence, adolescent sense of play,

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Speaker 4: and the lasting impact of the games we play when

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Speaker 4: we're kids into our adulthood. And it's why I actually

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Speaker 4: think your show is so brilliantly named, because although it

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Speaker 4: may seem trite, it's like, oh yeah, boy, meet World,

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Speaker 4: It's like, that's not really what it's about. Everybody in

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Speaker 4: that show is kind of learning the script for how

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Speaker 4: to be an adult. The Panga is acting way beyond

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Speaker 4: her maturity. It's absurd, right to the point where I

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Speaker 4: love this episode where you cut your hair thinking that

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Speaker 4: you will have absolutely no reaction, you're beyond vanity, etc.

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Speaker 4: Only to be struck instantly by the fact that I can't.

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Speaker 4: I like, my persona was so strong it fooled even me, right,

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Speaker 4: And so all these characters are pretending to be adults,

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Speaker 4: which is something that had a lasting impact on me.

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Speaker 4: All my movies in some ways are about are about

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Speaker 4: people who haven't gone through a write of passage or

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Speaker 4: haven't actually transformed into adults pretending to be and the

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Speaker 4: magic that you get from still being in that of

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Speaker 4: thinking anything's possible, that that you make the rules, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm so curious because, like, to me, this gets

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Speaker 2: to I'm really curious about your process, especially how it

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Speaker 2: started versus where it's now. Because you're in your work,

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Speaker 2: you have so much tension between improvisation, like clearly improvisation,

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Speaker 2: Like it seems to me like you're just riffing. You're

395
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Speaker 2: just in front of a camera and you're keeping it

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Speaker 2: loose with the camera to keep up with you as

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Speaker 2: an actor or your fellow actors. But then structurally you

398
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Speaker 2: always have a way to bring it full circle where

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Speaker 2: everything sort of comes back around. So I want to know, like,

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Speaker 2: even in the early episodes in Nirvana, were you were

401
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Speaker 2: you writing things? Were you improvising and then going back

402
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Speaker 2: and writing a script that sort of made sense of

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Speaker 2: the improv or were you just improving scene for like

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Speaker 2: how does how does this work? I mean I'm assuming

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Speaker 2: like BlackBerry, you out a script.

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Speaker 4: Yes, But again, all of this we had stolen from

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Speaker 4: sitcom television. So again to keep bringing this back to

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Speaker 4: like TGF boy Mean's world style storytelling. It's like when

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Speaker 4: you're a kid watching these shows, you don't realize that

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Speaker 4: it's not just happening life, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm ten years old watching the show. I

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Speaker 4: literally believe it's unfolding. Yeah, and there's no plan And

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Speaker 4: it's only when as a young filmmaker, in a way,

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Speaker 4: I was almost trying to mock the form of the sitcom.

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Speaker 4: Like Nirvana the Band, the show in some ways is

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Speaker 4: pretending itself to be a sitcom, and because we were

417
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Speaker 4: pretending to be one, we wound up needing to learn

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Speaker 4: how a three act structure for television actually works, and

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Speaker 4: how funny it can be to put characters who are

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Speaker 4: so stupid and don't and really don't deserve that kind

421
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Speaker 4: of treatment in that world, and so that when the

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Speaker 4: movie's a perfect example, it's like as when Matt goes

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Speaker 4: back to the year twenty twenty five and the world

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Speaker 4: is different and he's gotten the come upance that of

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Speaker 4: course you would expect he would get if this were

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Speaker 4: a sitcom where you know, you wish on a with

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Speaker 4: a with a lamp, and then you get the wish,

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Speaker 4: but it's corrupted, like in some ways that's a cliche,

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Speaker 4: but in our world all the cliches seem fresh, and

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Speaker 4: so we became addicted to them. And so I wound

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Speaker 4: up teaching myself. I won't even say like I sat

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Speaker 4: down to try to learn it. But in editing these things,

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Speaker 4: the more we could cleave to the strict rules of

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Speaker 4: Hollywood television story writing, the better it was, and it

435
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 4: was like the exact opposite of what I thought in

436
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 4: film school, where I thought, oh, I'll make movies and

437
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 4: I won't follow any rules at all, like screenwriting is

438
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 4: for old people, like all it sucks, like why would I,

439
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 4: why would I know any of this? And then it

440
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 4: was the exact opposite was true.

441
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: And that was discovery in editing. That was when you started.

442
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: Completely completely once we shot an entire episode, because I

443
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 4: was editing the original episodes of that show. As I

444
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 4: was doing it, the more I could fake it into

445
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 4: a sitcom three act structure and make it like it

446
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 4: was a boy Meets World episode, the more I was like,

447
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 4: this is unsquarsably funny to me. And it's almost like

448
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 4: you tie it together with a like an invisible structure

449
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 4: that I don't even know that the audience even follows.

450
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 4: But it makes all of the asinine nonsense of in

451
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 4: the movie's example, a time travel story where really like

452
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 4: these guys, at any moment, a real person could stop them,

453
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 4: be like you guys, can stop, you don't need to

454
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 4: do this, You're wasting your time. And yet because they

455
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 4: are in the propulsive mode of well, I'm on tgif

456
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 4: I gotta finish this movie. I have to do this.

457
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: It creates a kind of new thing which is like

458
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 4: the real world and real people colliding with this nineties clean,

459
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 4: morally clear story that that, for whatever reason, I found

460
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 4: very addictive when I was young.

461
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 6: It's incredible.

462
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: One of the things that I loved is because I

463
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: just kept rewinding certain parts and rewinding certain parts. But

464
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 3: the overall idea about the film that I loved so

465
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: much was it really shows how wonderful, how important, and

466
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: how really difficult friendship can be. And I just I

467
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: you know, it's arguably the most important relationship you'll ever

468
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 3: have in your life, is your best friend or best friends,

469
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: And there's times it's not the easiest thing in the world,

470
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: but you know that it's helping you develop the kind

471
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: of person that you're becoming.

472
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 6: And there's something you just.

473
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: Caught that where it's like, God, I love you so much,

474
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 3: and I can't be anywhere near you right now, of course,

475
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 3: and it's just so great about it.

476
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 4: The great quote that that that that rings in my

477
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 4: mind as this young young quote that says, a great

478
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: friend tells you who you are, and it's not something

479
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: you can decide. You don't get who you are, even

480
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 4: though of course we all think that we do.

481
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 7: And yeah, again, almost every single episode of Boy Meets

482
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 7: about this. Right wants to be this, Sean wants to

483
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 7: be this, but they actually need to tell one another

484
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 7: you're not that. And how many times in your show

485
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 7: did the characters say this isn't you.

486
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a cliche, and yet what are they deeply saying.

487
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: They're saying, you are acting outside of your moral norm

488
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 4: and you keep going down this path, it will destroy you. Right,

489
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 4: It's it's almost every third episode somebody will say this

490
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 4: isn't you. But there's deep wisdom in that, right, which

491
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: is that your friends create you, right, they make you.

492
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 4: And so the decisions that you make, my decision to

493
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 4: sit down and watch Boy Meets World, my whole family

494
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: being drawn to it. Why why was that? Do you know?

495
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: Like you write these questions like people think these questions

496
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 4: are meaningless, but there's something there that that is well

497
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: what you say, it's like it's profound. Yeah, even though

498
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: it's this teg I have show that many people think

499
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 4: about it almost mock. But what are you talking about?

500
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 4: It developed your sense of morality?

501
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely?

502
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: Absolutely? How much does being in Canada play into your work.

503
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: I think that now that I'm older, it is it's

504
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 4: become more clear to me that being outside of the

505
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 4: American system. Even even the fact that I didn't have

506
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 4: TGIF when I was a kid, and I would watch

507
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: it on whatever our Canadian subsidiary broadcaster was, but I

508
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: would see the ads between in between Boymans was like

509
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: a TGIF and I'd be like, what is this tag that?

510
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 4: It just seems so cool? I want to be a

511
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 4: part of that, but I couldn't be. It gave me

512
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: a kind of ironic distance from all of American culture,

513
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 4: and so I think it's why The Dirties is so

514
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 4: much about a kid obsessed with in almost like a

515
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 4: younger brother way American culture and wanting to touch it,

516
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 4: you know, like wanting so desperately to be a part

517
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 4: of it. I think there's a there's read of my

518
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 4: whole career, which is this guy is just this younger

519
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: brother of American culture and he just wants he wants

520
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 4: people to know that he loves it, and I want

521
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 4: to reach out and be able to hold it in

522
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: my hand like a jewel. Right, Navana the band is

523
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: basically a whole series of that of us making these

524
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 4: somewhat cryptic but sometimes very overt references to American media

525
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: that shaped us. But it's not ours. I just made

526
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: a movie in the United States about Anthony Bourdain with

527
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 4: it for the first I remember with an American crew,

528
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 4: and it was amazing to me. Was the first time

529
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 4: I ever shot anything in America. I'm going from location

530
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: to location with this huge American film crew and they're

531
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 4: saying things like, oh, yeah, this is where these people

532
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 4: shot Jaws, and this is the and we just shot

533
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: this movie over here that won an Oscar. And then

534
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: they just made that movie The Holdovers, which was nominated

535
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 4: for all these Oscars, and I was like, whoa, this

536
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 4: is like their lives. Like for you, guys, you are like,

537
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 4: it's you. You get to be the defining culture of

538
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 4: planet Earth. And it was the first time that I'd

539
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: thought about it from the perspective of, oh, like what

540
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: I just think of as multi media culture, Like what

541
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 4: I just think of is the stuff that I watch.

542
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: That's just American culture, water that you swim in.

543
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: And well, so you were empowered then by this sort

544
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: of outsider status or the sensus. I mean, are are

545
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: you going to be able to hold on to it, like,

546
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: did you feel it with this film? Now that you

547
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: were working with an American crew and American producers and

548
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: you know you're going to be it's going to get

549
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: released right you're are, do you still how are you

550
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: going to be able to maintain that that outsider sensibility?

551
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: It was very difficult, And I will say that in

552
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 4: a lot of ways, as I'm making movies that are

553
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 4: that are bigger where it isn't where it's not cute,

554
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: necessarily for me to kind of make movies like Nirvana

555
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 4: the band to show the movie right, like, I don't

556
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: have those same tools his. Let me put it this way,

557
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: When I made BlackBerry, I thought that that movie was

558
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 4: me leaving that part of my esthetic behind, and it

559
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 4: proved to instead be the movie that most people know

560
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: me by as opposed to my earlier work. And so

561
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 4: I was I had thought that I had already had this,

562
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: you know, sell out my aesthetics moment, and it seems

563
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 4: as though it didn't occur. So I think that anything

564
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: that I make, because in some ways I'm so limited

565
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 4: and because my experiences are so defined, it's always going

566
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: to be in my voice at some level now, and

567
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: that may prove to be false. We'll find out.

568
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: One of my favorite parts of the movie is just

569
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: no matter what, no matter what the characters are going through,

570
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: no matter what they're doing, they'll always stop and welcome

571
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: people to Toronto.

572
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 6: It's just like, oh my god, everything's going Hey, welcome,

573
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 6: welcome to the city. We're really happy to have because it's.

574
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: Just both patriots. You got to understands. Toronto is such

575
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 4: a diverse city and so many people come to visit here.

576
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 4: And I think that almost self consciously. When we're shooting

577
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: the show, people look at us and they're like, what

578
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: are these people doing? And I feel a kind of no, no, no,

579
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 4: like a statesmanship like as like no, no, I'm happy

580
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 4: you're here. Yea. But I like it when the when

581
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: the when the French girl at the end plug the

582
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: cable in and she's like, what are you doing? I'm like,

583
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: I need your help. Oh you're where you're from? France

584
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: or Quebec.

585
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: Can you see you? My favorite?

586
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 6: Could you press the button on the side there.

587
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: But this speaks to you were you were. You're literally

588
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: on the street filming with with regular people, right, I mean,

589
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: this is in proversation.

590
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 6: Okay, so we need listen.

591
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: We need our listeners to know this in case they've

592
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: never seen a Matt Johnson movie, we need to explain

593
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: this a little bit. How you blend written, scripted moments

594
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: blended with man on the Street style stuff.

595
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, A great way to think about it is that

596
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 4: imagine a Boy Meets World episode. The only actors in

597
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 4: it are Will Ryder, Danielle and Ben And that's right.

598
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: So so you as a shoot, you're in a high school,

599
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 4: and everybody in the high school there's real they don't

600
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 4: know where they're in a movie, but you guys know

601
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: the script, and so you're going through an episode being like, well,

602
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: somehow we've got to do this. And so whenever somebody

603
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 4: joins in, they don't know they're in a movie, but

604
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 4: but you talk with them. It's a lot like the

605
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 4: movie Borat. If Borat was like in a eighties like

606
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 4: family movie. That's right, thinking about it.

607
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: Great, have you ever had a bad experience while shooting

608
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: on the street.

609
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 6: I mean something happens where it's like.

610
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we've almost got beaten up, we almost

611
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: got arrested. I mean, so any of these kind of

612
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: things happened arrested.

613
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 4: Sure, because sometimes we're shooting things like that, that crazy

614
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 4: moment at the beginning with the c and tower like that,

615
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: that one was an extremely close call. But we're because

616
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: we're not mocking anybody, and we're not trying to ever

617
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: make anyone look bad. You'd be surprised at how nice

618
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: people are. We've never ever been in a situation where

619
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 4: somebody thought, Oh, I'm being like you guys are making

620
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: fun of me and I'm mad. That's that never ever happened.

621
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 4: And I think it's because we seem so mhmm, charitably brainless,

622
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? I think this person

623
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: could not mean any harm whatsoever.

624
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: Like like Eric, exactly like Eric, like you actually you

625
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: will think, like how many times do people get mad

626
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: at you in the show.

627
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 4: It's only when they misunderstand what you're doing. That's when

628
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 4: Eric Matthews would get into trouble. It would be like, Oh,

629
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 4: they just didn't understand that he actually meant the best,

630
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: Like your brother would get furious with you all the

631
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 4: time until he realized, oh, he's trying to help me. Yeah.

632
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: But that also it also it just shows that the

633
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: senior talking about the sea and tower shows, so the

634
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: differences between Canada and the United States because you're just

635
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: sitting there watching and you're pulling it, pulls out the

636
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: pliers and it is like, oh, I'd use these for

637
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: my jeans, and like you're good, come on through where

638
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you would have guard dogs around you.

639
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: By that point, it's like.

640
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 3: Oh, it's delightfully Canadian. That moment, it is just wonderful.

641
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, they're letting them go.

642
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 3: It was just so crazy.

643
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 4: I think that might be the other piece of my

644
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 4: citizenship that comes through in my work is that there's

645
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 4: a kind of fearlessness because of the provincialism of my

646
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 4: country that there. It's not that there's no consequences here,

647
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 4: but it's just that we are such a different level

648
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 4: of safety via in Toronto, where like if anything, if

649
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: somebody gets hit by a car in Toronto, it's national news. Right, Wow,

650
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? It's just so so different.

651
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: Must be nice. How did you now?

652
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: I have to ask how did you shoot the CN

653
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: tower stuff, like the stuff at the top and the

654
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: pair of shooting off.

655
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: I mean, how is this green screen?

656
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 6: It didn't look like it so.

657
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: We never use We never used green screens, but but

658
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: often because because we would as soon as people know

659
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 4: that we're shooting something, they act different, right, so we

660
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: can't do anything.

661
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 6: That's the Heisenberg principle.

662
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, as soon as they know. As soon as

663
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 4: people know, then then it's then it's then it's over. Well,

664
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 4: you must know how many times did you guys bring

665
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 4: a guest star into the show and then you look

666
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 4: at one another after a take and you go, they

667
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 4: don't get it?

668
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 6: Yeah?

669
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 4: Right, Like how often does that? I mean, I'm actually

670
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 4: sincerely curious how often did that happen?

671
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know.

672
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: You know, what's funny, I see it more. I saw

673
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: it on On Boy occasionally. But where I really see

674
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: people out of their element where they think it's one

675
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: thing and they get there and something completely different is

676
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: voiceover when you're when you're going into doing an animated

677
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 3: series and you get these brilliant actors that come in

678
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 3: that just don't get it.

679
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

680
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: I felt a lot of feature films. On features you

681
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: would be like, oh, we're in different movies. I mean,

682
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: the thing a sitcom is that the form is so given.

683
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean people come in knowing

684
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 4: what they're you know what. Of course, obviously maybe that

685
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 4: would happen in like the first season. Once that's done,

686
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: you're such a phenomenon that people are coming to audition

687
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 4: with the boy World exactly.

688
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: I mean they have like the rhythm of the language

689
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: literally in their head, do you know what I mean?

690
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: Like by by season two or three, like we know

691
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: how every line is going to be delivered, like just

692
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: by reading that on the page, and everybody can kind

693
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: of feel that rhythm and like get into it, and

694
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: you know it's Michael Jacob's voice. Like as a writer,

695
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: we all just sort of like, oh okay, we hear it,

696
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: we know it. But also, the sitcom as a form

697
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: is so formalized, it's so structured, it.

698
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: Has a standard beat to it, which is why when

699
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 3: you get somebody like a Matthew Perry or something like that,

700
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: who's everybody else is listening to one song and he's

701
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: obviously completely has a different beat in his head, he

702
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: stand out as a sitcom actor because it's like, oh okay,

703
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: you hear the beat, but you're going jazz. And so

704
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 3: it's that that's where so writer's right, you get a

705
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 3: lot of people that come in that know that it's

706
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: the joke and set up joke and set up joke.

707
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 6: I mean, that's kind of what a sitcom is.

708
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 3: But when you do that, get that actor who walks in,

709
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: he's like, oh man, you're totally off on another thing.

710
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 6: That's kind of you can you can create.

711
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: That, But I've felt that on features, you know, where

712
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: you're literally looking around the room going, oh, they think

713
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: they're doing a comedy and the rest of us are

714
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: doing a horror film. How do we make this work

715
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: troll too? Yeah?

716
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 4: Right?

717
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, I mean and hopefully I mean

718
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: that is the job of a director, right, is to

719
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: manage that tone and hopefully get everybody on the same

720
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: page as far as you know what you're doing. But

721
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 2: what I love about your work is that element of chaos. Like, so,

722
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: I want to hear about Shooting the Dirties because that's

723
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: a movie that is very funny but ultimately very tragic

724
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: and dramatic too. And so from what I've heard, you

725
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: just had run of a high school to make this movie.

726
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 4: Multiple different high schools. Again, I made that movie when

727
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 4: I was so young that we were able to go

728
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: into high schools in Canada and just film without people

729
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 4: really they whether they thought we were students or thought

730
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 4: that were we meant to be there. It was a

731
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 4: kind of mix of both. And again because we really

732
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: didn't need no harm and we were interacting with students

733
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: sort of at their level, and we shot a ton.

734
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 4: I would say that what has to have been brought

735
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: up is that in all of this work, unlike an

736
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 4: episode of Boy Meets World, we shoot more that we

737
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 4: don't use than we do. So we shoot, we shoot

738
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 4: scenes and scenes and scenes, sometimes entire movies that don't

739
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 4: make it to ask.

740
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: So what does the script look like? Is it an outlet?

741
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 4: Don't write scripts? That's that's that's the big that's the

742
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 4: biggest thing. S IF on BlackBerry. Because I was working

743
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 4: with American actors, I wrote a very very detailed script

744
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 4: with Matt Miller, the producer, and we sent that script

745
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 4: to actors and that was the entire movie. Now that

746
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 4: changed a ton because we played a lot on set

747
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 4: and in editing I completely reformatted the movie with with

748
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 4: Kurt Lob and Bobby up Church, the editors of all

749
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: this stuff. But in general, the Dirty's Operation Avalanche of

750
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 4: Front of the band, the show. They not only did

751
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 4: they not have scripts, we well, maybe have a one

752
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 4: or a two page outline that will set up the

753
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 4: entire movie, and then once it's been typed out, we

754
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 4: don't even refer to it. Like the six or seven

755
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 4: of us who make this stuff, we just keep it

756
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 4: all in our heads because it changes every day. Right,

757
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 4: so we'll be out in the street, I'll give you

758
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 4: a bad Luckily, the producer, Matt Gregson is one of

759
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: those key's part of the team. So the gold standard

760
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 4: example of this in that movie is the scene will

761
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 4: brought up where we're sneaking into the sea and tower

762
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 4: and the security guard lets us through with those pliers

763
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 4: that were later going to use to cut the safety cords.

764
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 6: To jump off, and clearly wearing parachutes.

765
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 4: Well this is the secret, okay, So we're clearly wearing

766
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: these parachutes on our back under our clothes. We assumed

767
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 4: that security was going to say, what are those on

768
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: your back? They were going to expose that we were

769
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 4: wearing parachutes? And then and the original a plot was

770
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 4: us sneaking into the SkyDome a different way, but when

771
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 4: security one didn't mention the parachutes on our back and

772
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 4: then to let me in with the pliers. We thought,

773
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 4: all right, so I guess now we're doing this instead.

774
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: So our plan was never to jump off the CN tower.

775
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 4: That was not nobody well it's inconceivable, like, I don't

776
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: even know how you would do it. And it was

777
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 4: only because the reality let us go there that we

778
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 4: kept going.

779
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: So when do you regroup? When do you then look

780
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: at each other and say.

781
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 4: Times oftentimes one beat that we shoot will be an

782
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 4: entire day, and then we all go back to our

783
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 4: office and go, okay, so now what So we group

784
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 4: every single day and rewrite based on what we got.

785
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: Oh, such a free, amazing way to shoot a filmy.

786
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 4: Let me disabuse you of that will and answer your

787
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: question at the same time. Video Okay, So it is

788
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: the most painful thing I've ever done in my life.

789
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 4: I really do it again for any amount of money.

790
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 4: And Danielle, we shot for two hundred days. That movie

791
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: has a two hundred day production schedule. We literally shot

792
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 4: the movie for two hundred days.

793
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

794
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: It so it's it's apocalypse now and then your film essentially.

795
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: It's it's a nightmare to make and although it seems

796
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 4: fun and like, oh wow, these guys are having such

797
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: a good time. We're not two.

798
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: Hundred days over how long? In one year?

799
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 4: A year? We shot the movie for one year, two

800
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 4: hundred days.

801
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: But but your your crew has to be tiny. I

802
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: mean you're six of us, six of them. Okay, so

803
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: so there is you are nimble, you are able to

804
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 2: sort of just.

805
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 4: But we all van Yeah, oh my god.

806
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: Do you ever get nervous out there?

807
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 4: Yeah? Every single time I need to talk to a stranger,

808
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 4: I get nervous because I'm like, because I don't want

809
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 4: to embarrass them. I want them to be happy. And

810
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 4: normally once we start talking, then it's like, oh good,

811
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 4: they're in a good movie. This is good vibes. But

812
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 4: the think like any of those things when I had

813
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 4: to go through security and we're when we're in Canadian

814
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 4: tire and that libertarian is telling us not to jump

815
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 4: because he's worried able to die, Like all of that

816
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 4: stuff is neurve.

817
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: Wracking, right, But now I'm sorry you you have to

818
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 3: give certain people lines because at one point you go

819
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: up to a guy on the street and you say

820
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: what year is it?

821
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 6: And he says it's two thousand and eight.

822
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 4: Yes, we cheat so so in that instance. Now that's

823
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 4: a very specific part of Toronto Young and then Desk

824
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 4: Square where it's what's a wild area you'll remember later

825
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 4: on in the movie. From that moment, I see a

826
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 4: guy who says, Hollywood, Hollywood, mister Rocky, mister Arnold, mister

827
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: Jennifer Lopez. That's the place where there's where there's like

828
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 4: a lot of day drink king. I'll just say and

829
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 4: so and so. Yes. Sometimes if like we're desperate to

830
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 4: have somebody say something, we'll give them a line. But

831
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: they're always strangers and there are always people are like

832
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 4: in a movie, hell.

833
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, o god, our releases a thing? Do you have

834
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: to get? Okay?

835
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 4: So much? If who speaks, anybody who like, who interacts

836
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 4: with the plot, our producers chain stand to get releases

837
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 4: from and we don't always get them. Sometimes we have

838
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 4: to blur their faces.

839
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 6: How close are the cameras? I mean, does everybody see

840
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 6: that you're filming something or not?

841
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 4: That's ugh Jered Rabb. The cinematographer move in some ways

842
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 4: developed this language is shooting on cameras that sometimes are

843
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: like three hundred and fifty enilimeters like the lengths. They're

844
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 4: so long that Jay and I can't even see where.

845
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: They wow wow wow.

846
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 4: And on the Dirties, that was that was necessary because

847
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: that's a movie where if people were to see the cameras,

848
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 4: it completely breaks well, it breaks the reality in a

849
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 4: way because because the trick, the magic really is is

850
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 4: that these guys know they're in a movie nobody else does,

851
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: and so it's almost like they're glowing. You know, do

852
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 4: you guys read Calvin Hobbs.

853
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: You know, Waters's obsessed.

854
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 4: So Bill Watterson's what's so amazing about his technique to me?

855
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 4: To me, I don't know anything about about comic books,

856
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: but his backgrounds are like paintings. They're these beautiful, like

857
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 4: gorgeous and yet incredibly simple paintings. And so Calvin and

858
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 4: Hobbes and the characters they stand out in this almost

859
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 4: like tin tin way where it's like whoa, It's like

860
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 4: they pop right out and and that aesthetic. We're almost

861
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 4: trying to follow that by having a world that is

862
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 4: so dynamic and wild. But you know, these two guys,

863
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 4: whether it's Me and Owen in the Dirties or Me

864
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 4: and Owen in Operation Avalanche, or Matt and Jay in Nirvana,

865
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 4: the band. They it's like they glow like you follow

866
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 4: them because because you have put a context around them

867
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: where it's like, oh, they're in the movie, right, and

868
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 4: so you can follow them against these very rich, bizarre

869
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 4: backgrounds that are kind of out of step with with

870
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 4: with what they are. And if you're trying to we're

871
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 4: going to try to recreate like your Boy Meets. Did

872
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 4: you guys ever shoot an episode on location in the

873
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 4: real world?

874
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: This is just a little bit, but you know they

875
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 2: did Disney World World.

876
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's evil again, is it's horrible?

877
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 4: It's hard? Fine?

878
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 6: Thanks me.

879
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 4: So let me ask you something because this this episode

880
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 4: doesn't come to mind for me. Do you remember watching

881
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 4: that episode and thinking, oh, there's a real estatic shift

882
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 4: when we're outside and with like, it's so crazy. I

883
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 4: remember the Fraser shot an episode where they had actually

884
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 4: shot in Seattle, and it doesn't it doesn't look like

885
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 4: the show at all. You just what it's So Seinfeld

886
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 4: had the same issue, and we were thinking, Okay, let's

887
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: have it so that that that is our base level

888
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 4: the outside in the world, real people like that's that's

889
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 4: what the show always looks like. So there isn't that

890
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: that's correct when you go from them from one.

891
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: To well, that's one of them.

892
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: I'm convinced it's still you know, everyone said they hated

893
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 3: the story, but I think psychologically one of the reasons

894
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 3: people hated the last episode of Seinfeld is because they

895
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 3: didn't recognize any of the sets. They're in there in

896
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 3: a different place, then they're in court, then they're in

897
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 3: It's like, wait a minute, I've been for nine years.

898
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: I've been watching these people in this apartment, and now

899
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: you're not going to have them in the.

900
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 6: And this way. Yeah.

901
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: Right, So that's why I still think it was a

902
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,959
Speaker 3: psychological thing for people. It's like I didn't like the story.

903
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, but I also think you didn't know

904
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: where you were. Yeah, And that's that's a big concession,

905
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: especially on sitcom. It becomes you want it to be there.

906
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: Our living room is your living room. That's how that works.

907
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 3: And so when you take ability, that lets you break

908
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 3: yes exactly. So, oh god, I just I'm thinking about

909
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 3: the idea of two hundred days of shooting I make it.

910
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: Well, so I'm curious you you so you made BlackBerry,

911
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: which is sort of a leap up into more mainstream,

912
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: more Hollywood style film filmmaking, and then you choose to

913
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: go back to nirvana. That is that the right, that's

914
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: the order, right? So why or what was the process

915
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: did you enjoy BlackBerry?

916
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: Was that?

917
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: Is that what you want to continue doing? Are you

918
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: going to try and do both styles of filmmaking?

919
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: Well? I already made the Boordain movie yeh, Cape Cod

920
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 4: a few months ago, and that was shot very much

921
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 4: like BlackBerry, with a script where it's all with a

922
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 4: huge crew.

923
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 2: Are you in that one as well?

924
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 4: No? No, I couldn't. Interesting, There wasn't There was not

925
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 4: a role for me. It's nineteen seventy five and any

926
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 4: more day is twenty years old and falling in love

927
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 4: meeting Yeah, it was something you It would have hitch

928
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 4: got it.

929
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: You didn't hitchcock it at all.

930
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 3: You're walking in the you're walking a dog in the background,

931
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: You're you're the barista.

932
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 6: Nothing.

933
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 4: It would have been like Eric Matthews walking onto the

934
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 4: set of mad Man.

935
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 6: Okay, I gotcha, Yeah, I gotcha. That makes sense.

936
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: People would have been like, like such an error that

937
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 4: again you'll you'll see the movie and maybe have a

938
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 4: different opinion. But the answer is Yes, I like working

939
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 4: in things where it is not, for lack of a

940
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 4: better word, all about me, where it's not like my

941
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 4: own where I'm at the center of it. And uh.

942
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 4: And I didn't think I ever would like making movies

943
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 4: like that, and BlackBerry was quite painful to make, but

944
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 4: I feel like it has been an opportunity for me to.

945
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 4: I know, I say this unpretentious, it's like I like

946
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 4: exploring story that way, and I feel like whatever it

947
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 4: was that I had to say with this childish, adolescent,

948
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 4: make your own reality style of filmmaking, I am finding

949
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 4: ways to transpose into these more standard stories because I

950
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 4: think that message is somehow important. I think nearly it's

951
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 4: the message of my life, which is that there is

952
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 4: a kid in everybody, and so much of adulthood is

953
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 4: learning to silence and strangle that for good reason, like

954
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 4: we have to socialize ourselves to be normal. But if

955
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: you killed that person, you actually die. And so trying

956
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 4: to where the message of nor or less anything I do,

957
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 4: is that that you were who you are when you

958
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 4: were ten, and that may humiliate you. That may not

959
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 4: be who you want to be, but you really can't

960
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 4: escape that, and so you may as well, embrace all

961
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 4: the positives what ever that was, Yeah, yeah, for its maximum,

962
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 4: because otherwise you're you're just going to be pure persona

963
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 4: like you won't actually get to live a life. You're

964
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 4: you're you're gonna you're going to be a performer forever.

965
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 3: Well, I always say, I mean, I I say this

966
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 3: to my wife, I say this to my friends. I

967
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 3: always live by a very simple model motto, which is

968
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 3: there is a very big difference between childish and childlike. Yes,

969
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 3: and so I think, I like, I embrace it, and

970
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 3: you have to. I mean, it's it's super important. But yeah,

971
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 3: that's the pers I mean.

972
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: One of the things that I've always loved about your

973
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 2: work is is also you're you're acting like you're a

974
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: genuinely wonderful actor. And I learned from the best dude.

975
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 2: It's and I think that I think that you know,

976
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: in something like Black Bear, I could see your influence

977
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: just by being part of the team. You know, you're

978
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: in on the in the scene with them, you can

979
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: see the other actors sort of upping their game or

980
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 2: or adjusting to you. So I'm curious, when you're not

981
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: in the scene with them, how has it been working

982
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: with actors and trying are you still like doing scenes?

983
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: Are you like, what's it been like to direct?

984
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 4: I'll tell you my process. I made this movie with

985
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 4: Dominic access at the cast of the BOORDA movie is unbelievable,

986
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 4: like especially the four main pillars of it, and domin Accessor,

987
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 4: who was the star of The Holdovers. He's the young

988
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 4: guy who is buddies with Jiamatti. The way that I

989
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 4: work is that I typically wind up doing most of

990
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 4: the writing with the lead, right, So Glenn Jay and

991
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 4: I on BlackBerry, like we talked a lot about like

992
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 4: what it was that was interesting in this script that

993
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 4: was also kind of a part of their life, and

994
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 4: trying to find as many connections to that as we

995
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 4: possibly could. And in that discussion you wind up talking

996
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 4: through a lot of the scenes on Tony with domin

997
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 4: access So much of it is us going through it together,

998
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 4: finding ways to make one another lap and on set,

999
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 4: I'm like literally right beside the actress when we're doing scenes,

1000
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 4: like I'm talking them in most cases, like I mean

1001
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 4: physically my hand, especially with with dom like we would

1002
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 4: be in physical contact with one during takes.

1003
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 2: And then you're rewriting on the day you're like, oh,

1004
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: that didn't work, let's try this, or you know, you're.

1005
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 4: Normally it's not me saying that didn't work. Normally, it's

1006
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: do I'm telling me we need to change it right

1007
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 4: now and be like yeah, because you know what. You

1008
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 4: guys will know this when when you're not telling the truth,

1009
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 4: when you are being given dialogue where it's like, wait

1010
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 4: a minute, Sean wouldn't say this, and the director's like

1011
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 4: that's the line, you're like, ah, but wait a minute.

1012
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 4: You don't understand. It's hard to make people understand that.

1013
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 4: It's like I can't say that. And it's not that

1014
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 4: I am I'm moralizing or that I'm like trying to

1015
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 4: be a diva Topanga can't say that. You try to

1016
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 4: get me to say that is like you're like you're

1017
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 4: torturing me, and you're not just torturing me, you're kind

1018
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 4: of killing what it is that this is. And I

1019
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 4: think that because I love acting and i'm ACTI get

1020
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,959
Speaker 4: my own things and I'm always playing myself. I wound

1021
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 4: up learning, oh, you can't actually have an actor lie

1022
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 4: if they're if, unless that's their skill set, unless they're

1023
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 4: Denzel Washington, and they can literally make any piece of

1024
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 4: dialogue sound like certain people who have a gift totally.

1025
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 4: But if you don't, you just you just can't. And

1026
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 4: so I'm I'm always like if an actor says this

1027
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 4: doesn't work for me, it's not even a discussion. It's like, one,

1028
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 4: you're right, and two let's figure out what how you do?

1029
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 4: Say this?

1030
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 3: But you just mentioned Denzel Washington, who if you could

1031
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 3: pick anybody, who would you work with?

1032
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 4: Like?

1033
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 6: Who you.

1034
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 4: Pick? I think he's the best actor? A lie, you

1035
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 4: can there is no movie where did you see he

1036
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 4: can do anything?

1037
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, not a good movie. He's awesome.

1038
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, he says, just like, yes, write that down. Whatever

1039
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: he just said, that's that's a truth. Write it down.

1040
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1041
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1042
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: There are some pretty big rumors about you with future

1043
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: movies like Magic the Gathering. So it's.

1044
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 3: A magic are you Are you kidding?

1045
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 4: Are you kidding?

1046
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: Yes?

1047
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 3: Magic Cards, O writer taught me how to play magic

1048
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: and a hash.

1049
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: Hash bar on Amsterdam.

1050
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 6: He taught me how to play Magic the Gathering.

1051
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 2: We were in the back we were backstage of boy

1052
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,959
Speaker 2: playing magic all the time, yes, the time.

1053
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 4: I can't believe that. So Magic Cards taught me to

1054
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 4: read when I was a kid, I refused to read.

1055
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 4: I thought reading was for girls, you know, I was

1056
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 4: like like five years old. Truly, it's a it's a

1057
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 4: generational problem that literacy seems somehow feminine to to certain people.

1058
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 4: And it was only through comics and magic cards literally

1059
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 4: that I was like, oh, reading can be amazing. And

1060
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 4: it was because Danielle, have you seen a magic card before?

1061
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 6: Like you, oh yeah, we got it.

1062
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: They got me playing. Yeah.

1063
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 4: What's so great for young people with magic cards is

1064
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 4: that in order to play it is a game about reading.

1065
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: And what's so great is so many of the cards

1066
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 4: are verbs, and so it's like an action word and

1067
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 4: so there's the name, there's a picture of what's happening,

1068
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 4: and then you get to see what the rules text are.

1069
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 4: So it's such a great for me. I'm being like, oh, yeah,

1070
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 4: I'm lightning bolt and there is a lightning bolt. That

1071
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: must be a lightning bulb.

1072
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 2: Right, but your vocabulary is peppered with words like irma's

1073
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 2: and softer and relate to the world.

1074
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: Is one red tap one red for your lightning bolts.

1075
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 3: That's three points of damages against it.

1076
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you throw in random roab. Yeah, there's so

1077
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 2: many times when I've realized, like, oh, that's just a

1078
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: magic term. That doesn't make sense to anybody else in

1079
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 2: the world.

1080
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 4: Writer, do you know why the vocabulary in magic cards

1081
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 4: become so esoteric and interesting and become such a why

1082
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 4: they white ramps up in terms of its difficulty. It's

1083
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 4: because they're printing so many cards. They need to find

1084
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 4: new words to say these same simple verbs, and so

1085
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 4: it's such an em Oh. Anyway, I'm a I'm a

1086
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 4: i'm a. I was addicted. I wanted to be a

1087
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 4: professional magic card player when I was a kid. That

1088
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 4: was my dream. And it was at the end of

1089
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 4: film school where I was going to brand Pre Detroit,

1090
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 4: and I had made Day two, which is this is

1091
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 4: like a big magic card tournament and it was limited

1092
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 4: champions of chemicgaua block, and I was like, oh my god,

1093
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 4: I'm going to become a professional magic card player. I'm

1094
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 4: just a kid. I guess it was in the second

1095
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 4: year actually, and I lost. I came like thirty seventh

1096
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 4: or something like that, and I was like, damn it.

1097
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 4: And then I decided that day I think I'll just

1098
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 4: I'll just finish film school and I'll.

1099
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: Make films such a Defeat.

1100
00:55:58,600 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: Circle.

1101
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 3: Okay, wait wait, wait, First, I want to know what

1102
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: what did you play?

1103
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 4: Well? I played limited, I played, I played everything like.

1104
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 4: I played so much that to say what I would

1105
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 4: play whatever was winning. But colors that I love are

1106
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 4: blue and red like I love is it? But I

1107
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 4: love great? I love every color like I love back

1108
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 4: in the day when the color wheel wasn't so defined,

1109
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 4: like there'd be all kinds of crazy effects happening in

1110
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 4: everything called. The very first card I ever opened was Balance.

1111
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 3: I won Balance from Riders Brothers Silo in a game

1112
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: we were playing for cards, and it's the first cards we.

1113
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 2: Played for ant and I.

1114
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: Won my I still have it. I still have my

1115
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 3: Balance card. It's a phenomenal card.

1116
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 4: All right.

1117
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: What can you tell us about the movie? What can

1118
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: you tell us?

1119
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 4: Like?

1120
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 2: What are you writing it right now?

1121
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 4: It's being written. We're writing it right now and and

1122
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 4: hopefully we we I don't even I can think. I

1123
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 4: can say but but but it's I think, But I've

1124
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 4: say this. Magic Card fans are going to love this

1125
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 4: movie because I am a I am A I am

1126
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 4: a'm like magic cards raised me. So when I know

1127
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 4: they were making a movie. I said, oh, I should

1128
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 4: make this because the outcome of it it will matter

1129
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 4: a lot to me. Like I bought this movie to

1130
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 4: be for other people what this game did for me

1131
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 4: when I was a kid, which is open up a

1132
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 4: world of I can't even say, you know, it's just

1133
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 4: too much.

1134
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 3: But anyway, I never, I never ever do this. Ken

1135
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 3: Ryder and I come to the set and be atmosphere.

1136
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 4: I was about to say, you please, yes, of course.

1137
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 4: Are you kidding?

1138
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 2: Are you gonna be shooting in America or where? Do

1139
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: you even know?

1140
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

1141
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: I just want to come. You will come wherever I will,

1142
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: We will be there.

1143
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 6: You're kidding.

1144
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: I will come. I will come. They tried to get

1145
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: they got me to play on a slumber party night,

1146
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I don't know if the game

1147
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: is for me, but I will, I will come. I

1148
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: would like to just officially ask if you would like

1149
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: to be our new Corey when.

1150
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 4: We do when we do the one. Here's the thing,

1151
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 4: I don't think I have what Corey has, because he,

1152
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 4: more than any other character in that show, had a

1153
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 4: kind of moral center and an indignity. When that was

1154
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 4: impugned that I could. I mean, if if Will dies,

1155
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 4: then I'll have then you'll have a use for me.

1156
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 4: I can't. You can't be worried. It's not possible. It

1157
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 4: would be again, it would be such a stretch. What

1158
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 4: he was doing was was was unique. I mean, he

1159
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 4: he was the center of that show, which, which like

1160
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 4: Seinfeld was like so many of these shows, kind of

1161
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 4: meant that he couldn't really be that fun. Yes, yeah, right,

1162
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 4: like things needed to happen to him. One of my

1163
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 4: one of my favorite episodes, and actually an episode that

1164
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 4: becomes more and more true to me the old r

1165
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 4: I get is when Ryder sneaks into the philosophy class.

1166
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 4: You guys know this episode and and what does the

1167
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 4: professor say that He's like, oh, you're brilliant, but you

1168
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 4: but you don't know how to write, like you actually

1169
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 4: need to go back to high school to understand the basics.

1170
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 4: This is like that is that is so deeply I mean,

1171
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 4: this sounds so insipid, like so moronic for me, but

1172
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 4: it's like that was in the same way that I

1173
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 4: thought I would leave film school and just make all

1174
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 4: kinds of crazy no rules, like nothing mattered. It would

1175
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 4: be pure insanity capturing the camera. It's like I had

1176
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 4: to go through that exact exact learning where it was,

1177
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 4: oh I can, I've got great ideas. I can. That's

1178
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 4: all I need, right, And it was, oh no, I

1179
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 4: actually need to learn how to write. I need to

1180
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 4: put all my stories in this structure that they were

1181
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 4: trying to teach me in film school, but I thought

1182
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 4: was lame and I didn't want to have anything to

1183
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 4: do with it. It's like I literally went through that

1184
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,479
Speaker 4: episode of the show. So, yeah, I think I could

1185
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 4: play I think I could maybe play Sean. I could

1186
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 4: definitely play Eric. I can't play it, Corey, What am

1187
00:59:58,760 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 4: I going to do?

1188
00:59:59,240 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 2: Completely agree?

1189
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 6: So I'm out of a job.

1190
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: Thanks man.

1191
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 4: What's going on with with Boy Meets World? I'm so

1192
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 4: painfully ignorant, Like is it's like, are you you guys

1193
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 4: had a Girl meets World? Did Yeah? They didn't girl?

1194
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: Well, we did a girl meets World and now there's

1195
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: nothing going on with it. We just meant I meant more.

1196
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: Actually in our personal circle, will you be our ben?

1197
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 4: Will you enjoying the click? Yes?

1198
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: Can you just more of us.

1199
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 4: Are now interviewing other people? I'm just a fan, I

1200
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 4: love it.

1201
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: We're just okay, great that that's really what we what

1202
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: we want. Funny, Okay, I know you have talked about

1203
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: with this with and now we're talking about magic the gathering,

1204
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,959
Speaker 1: and that you are going to infuse your sensibility into

1205
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: all the movies you do. But is there also a

1206
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: possibility that you're going to just keep alternating between you know, match.

1207
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 4: Gathering in movies. Yeah, I think yes, and I think

1208
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 4: that's actually a good thing. I hope I get to

1209
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 4: do it like that. The thing is, I have a

1210
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 4: like a group of friends who I work with all

1211
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 4: the time, and it is impossible in some ways to

1212
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 4: move that group into these gigantic American productions where in

1213
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 4: some ways, like on the Boordame movie, well like I am,

1214
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 4: I'm a much smaller piece of the machine right as

1215
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 4: I'm sure you guys can relate to on like on.

1216
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 4: As soon as something gets so big, like the director

1217
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 4: is an important person, but they're not, they don't get

1218
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 4: to call really any real big shots, and so that

1219
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 4: is that's a very different system. And so yeah, I'm

1220
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 4: going to continue to make movies in Canada where it

1221
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 4: is just small group of people working out of the

1222
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 4: office I'm in right now, and then larger style films

1223
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 4: where I get to deal with things that were important

1224
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 4: to me as a kid. It's strange how whether it's

1225
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 4: magic cards or Anthony Bourdain or BlackBerry, all of these

1226
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 4: things are all stuff that I just was exposed to

1227
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 4: when I was a young teenager, and I just can't escape.

1228
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: Well it's okay there now we're all best friends.

1229
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 8: So yeah, so that's how it works, don't discribe.

1230
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: So Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie will be

1231
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: showing in Boston, Dallas, Austin, and Chicago in December and

1232
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: then wide come February thirteenth, twenty twenty six. And when

1233
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: can we see Tony the Anthony Bourdain movie? When will

1234
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: that be released?

1235
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 4: I think A twenty four is releasing it next year,

1236
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 4: but I don't know when. Okay, so exciting, you know.

1237
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 4: I invite you guys to the community. Please we would

1238
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 4: all go together.

1239
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 6: We would love that that yeah, hell yeah, definitely.

1240
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, thank you so much for being here, and sure,

1241
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean just the thrilling to have you. I'm sure

1242
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: you could tell by the way we all fanned out

1243
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: over you.

1244
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,919
Speaker 4: But I can say, sincerely, it was much more so

1245
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 4: for me. I mean, I hope I've expressed it. But

1246
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 4: the work that you guys did when you were just kids,

1247
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 4: and I recognize that, I know, I know that at

1248
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 4: some level it was out of your control, but it

1249
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 4: shaped me and my family's view of the world. Wow.

1250
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 4: From wherever you were shooting the show in the United States,

1251
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 4: it making it up to Ontario. It was like the

1252
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 4: vade Meekham for us. We carry it with us wherever

1253
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 4: we go.

1254
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a thank you so much, thank you for

1255
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: spending your time with us. And we'll see you at

1256
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: the premiere.

1257
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much.

1258
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 4: Matt. Goodbye, Yeah, goodbye. It was nice meaning you too.

1259
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 4: Goodbye Rider, I'll see you again.

1260
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: I'll see you again for sure, definitely.

1261
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 6: Bye bye.

1262
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 1: What a guy.

1263
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, it's so cool.

1264
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: It's a combination of a brilliant filmmaker and an incredible

1265
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 3: actor who also just wanted to spend his time making

1266
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 3: us feel awesome about ourselves.

1267
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. Like I it's so I always

1268
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 2: love this moment when you connect with somebody's work, you know,

1269
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: like the way I did with his movies, where I

1270
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: just immediately was like there's something going on here. That

1271
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: speaks to me as an writer, as an artist, as

1272
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: an actor, with all of it. And then when I

1273
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: actually met him and he reciprocates that, you know, he's like, well,

1274
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 2: you were huge influence on me and we were able

1275
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 2: to and I was just like, oh my god, Like

1276
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 2: I love that. That's like one of my favorite things.

1277
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I mean like he you know, like

1278
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 2: he says, you know, he's waxing poetic about the influence

1279
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: of Boy Meets the World on his life. But and

1280
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: I and I think some of that is hyperbolic to

1281
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 2: a degree. But on the other hand, it's also like

1282
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 2: he believes that art can change the world. He believes

1283
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 2: that the things he's saying, even though they're silly fun movies,

1284
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: often are affecting viewers. They are getting under your skin.

1285
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 2: They are And like, that's that's a real artist.

1286
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 4: You know.

1287
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 3: I tell you something, right, Okay, I tell you something

1288
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 3: in that Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie has

1289
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 3: made me re evaluate my creative output.

1290
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 2: Me too, Man, I'm in the exact same space we

1291
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: were texting rider at I were texting about it last night,

1292
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,439
Speaker 2: like we gotta get together, we got to do something.

1293
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: We gotta I mean, it's it makes you want to

1294
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 3: to be creative, but you also have to realize he

1295
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 3: is a one in a million creative true one Jane

1296
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 3: can who can handle that undertaking.

1297
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 2: And a kind of chaos with structure that he's constantly balancing.

1298
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: It's so much work. It's so much work.

1299
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 3: Two hundred days of shooting, two hundred days of shooting.

1300
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 6: That's insanity, I know.

1301
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 2: But the movie is so funny. Everybody out there, if

1302
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: you can get if you can watch it, if you

1303
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: just get a hold of this movie when it's out

1304
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 2: or in your town. It is so freaking good. It's

1305
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: one of the I haven't laughed that hard in a

1306
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: movie in like a decade. I was crying with laughter

1307
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: at the premiere. I watched it again two nights ago

1308
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: and I just could not stop laughing. It's so brilliant

1309
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: and Yeah, I love Yeah man, he's a hero.

1310
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Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Podmeets World.

1311
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod meets

1312
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: World Show. You can send us your emails podmeets World

1313
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: Show at gmail dot com. And we've got merch.

1314
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 6: Two whites, two blues. Tap for merch.

1315
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: Podmeets worldshow dot com will send us out.

1316
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 6: We love you all, pod dismissed.

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01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 3: Podmets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel,

1318
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 3: Wilfordell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensencarp and Amy Sugarman,

1319
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 3: Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,

1320
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 3: Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore.

1321
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 2: Engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen.

1322
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and

1323
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 3: you can follow us on Instagram at Podmeets World Show

1324
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 3: or email us at Podmets Worldshow at gmail dot com