Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
Speaker 1: today we're discussing how to keep yourself out of debt. Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: this makes me think about Okay, so you know the
Speaker 1: played out scene and pretty much any TV show, cartoon,
Speaker 1: or movie where somebody like gets kicked thrown out of
Speaker 1: a bar and they're like, get out of here, and
Speaker 1: they throw them and then they're like and stay out.
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about today. And we're not talking
Speaker 1: about We're not going to focus on how to get
Speaker 1: out of debt. We're gonna talk about how you can
Speaker 1: stay out of debts. And by the way, have you
Speaker 1: ever gotten like kicked out of a bar? I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I'm trying to think. I wish I had
Speaker 1: a good story, but you and I are two, We're
Speaker 1: two law abiding dudes, and yeah, I don't think I've
Speaker 1: even ever been asked to leave. I tend to be fair,
Speaker 1: really well behaved when I'm mountain, one thing I'm not
Speaker 1: terribly proud of. But a long time ago, this is
Speaker 1: what I'm day before I the dirt, Okay, at a
Speaker 1: Braves game, I was sitting next to the bullpen for
Speaker 1: the opposing team the It was the Florida Marlins back then.
Speaker 1: I don't think they had name changed. They're the worst,
Speaker 1: and I think I maybe was like just you know,
Speaker 1: not no cursewords or anything like that, but just just
Speaker 1: some general unkind heckling. Yes, the part of the game.
Speaker 1: And I remember as the security guy coming up to
Speaker 1: me like that's enough, and I was like, okay, that's
Speaker 1: I'm done. But he didn't ask you to leave or anything.
Speaker 1: No, no no, no, I did. I hadn't gotten to that point.
Speaker 1: I just said a few things and he was like,
Speaker 1: that's your good buddy. Okay. I hadn't even been drinking.
Speaker 1: I was just literally just kind of a pump punk kid,
Speaker 1: I think, a punk yeah, being a punk kid. So
Speaker 1: you were right behind the dugout or no, behind the
Speaker 1: bullpen in the outfield? Yeah, oh, in the outfield, Okay.
Speaker 1: I was thinking because if you were, no, I didn't
Speaker 1: have the premos seat. If you can get the premos
Speaker 1: seats occasionally, because back then you could get the company
Speaker 1: tickets and if nobody claimed those, I mean you're sitting
Speaker 1: pretty close to the batter's box. Yeah. Well, even back
Speaker 1: in the day, almost no one went to Braves games,
Speaker 1: so you could get the cheap tickets and still like
Speaker 1: move up to the fancy seats, which which was nice.
Speaker 1: That was one of those like extra perks where like oh,
Speaker 1: going down for the four hundreds to the one hundreds
Speaker 1: without paying any more money? Was it? Joyce? Was that
Speaker 1: the the usher? Yes? She was really. I can't believe
Speaker 1: I remember her name. She was awesome. I can't remember
Speaker 1: what section she was in charge of guarding. Then she
Speaker 1: did not keep out the people who are not supposed
Speaker 1: to be out. Well, in our case, we got to
Speaker 1: know her pretty well. And there's value in relationships. That's
Speaker 1: what that taught me to And Joyce, she and I
Speaker 1: became friends and we would sit there. We would talk
Speaker 1: during the game and stuff, and I got to know her,
Speaker 1: she got to know my family. It was one of
Speaker 1: those things where, uh, it just we just kept going
Speaker 1: down to that section and hung out with Joyce every
Speaker 1: time we went to a baseball game. I missed those days. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: And the fact is, if you know, it's the second
Speaker 1: third inning and she looks down and only the rows
Speaker 1: you know, you know, have people in them, Like, why
Speaker 1: not let somebody down? It looks better for TV? Right, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's what I always thought. If there are people in
Speaker 1: the stands, then you're gonna go. Yes, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I remember watching speaking of the Marlins their games, and
Speaker 1: there they used to be in. I don't know these days,
Speaker 1: I don't watch baseball as much, and we don't even
Speaker 1: know if there's gonna be a baseball season this year
Speaker 1: or not at this point. But nobody went to the
Speaker 1: Marlins games, Like nobody. You think someone would hit a
Speaker 1: home run and you would see somebody from like four
Speaker 1: sections over running over to try to get the home running.
Speaker 1: Five minutes later they get the ball exactly. That's how
Speaker 1: a few people there were at those games. But Matt,
Speaker 1: let's let's move on. Let's mention the beer that we're
Speaker 1: having on this episode. This one is called Empress Rising.
Speaker 1: It's a bourbon barrel aged stout by Birds Fly South.
Speaker 1: You pick this up on your recent trek to South Carolina.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and uh, we'll give our thoughts on this
Speaker 1: one at the end of the episode, but for now,
Speaker 1: let's get on. Let's talk about debt for a second.
Speaker 1: And and like you said, Matt, we're talking about how
Speaker 1: to keep yourself out of debt. So We've done episodes
Speaker 1: on how to get out of debt, but but the
Speaker 1: thing is, nobody talks about how to stay out of debt,
Speaker 1: and so for for some people, debt becomes this recurring cycle.
Speaker 1: And you made a good analogy at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the episode, But what it made me think of was
Speaker 1: the Seinfeld Reservation episode. Do you remember that one? Have
Speaker 1: you seen that? You always bring up Seinfeld and I
Speaker 1: always have to say, no, I'm not a boomer, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm not like this gen xer who is in love
Speaker 1: with Seinfeld. Please, there are lots of millennials and Gen
Speaker 1: zears watching Seinfeld on Netflix as we speak. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised, honestly if there are more gen's ears watching
Speaker 1: Seinfeld as like a nostalgia thing, because I feel like millennials,
Speaker 1: it was just before time, so it's not old enough
Speaker 1: to be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean I've
Speaker 1: I've watched a number of episodes. I'm not like a
Speaker 1: Seinfeld person all the way, although I do think it's
Speaker 1: really funny. But there's this one episode, and I think
Speaker 1: it's maybe one of the funnier ones where Jerry gets
Speaker 1: to the rental car counter and they're like, I'm sorry, sir,
Speaker 1: we don't have a car for you. And he's like,
Speaker 1: but I have a reservation and they're like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: still don't have the car. He's like, wait, wait a second.
Speaker 1: You know how to take the reservation, but you don't
Speaker 1: know how to keep the reservation, and really that's the
Speaker 1: most important part. And they're you know, they go through
Speaker 1: this whole song of dance talking to the supervisor and
Speaker 1: all that, and he's just you know, lamb basting the
Speaker 1: whole thing. Um. I think he eventually gets like a
Speaker 1: subcompact car or something like that. But similarly, folks might
Speaker 1: know how to get out of debt, and but the
Speaker 1: problem is they might have to be doing it on
Speaker 1: a regular basis because they don't know how to stay
Speaker 1: out of debt. And so, yeah, you might find yourself
Speaker 1: digging out of a debt hole each year right around
Speaker 1: this time, because this is when most people are getting
Speaker 1: their credit card statements in the mail or in the email,
Speaker 1: I guess, and so holiday spending that it tends to
Speaker 1: sneak up on a lot of people and that's why
Speaker 1: so many folks are feeling the after effects now. But
Speaker 1: we think a crucial part of making meaningful progress with
Speaker 1: your money is learning how to take debt to the
Speaker 1: curb for good, at least the kinds of debt that
Speaker 1: we think are are the worst forms. Yeah, because you know,
Speaker 1: we also try to give a nuance take when we
Speaker 1: talk about debt, like, we don't think that all forms
Speaker 1: of debt are inherently evil. There are some forms of
Speaker 1: debt that are certainly way less evil that that than
Speaker 1: some other types, almost tinging on good but not quite exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but much of the debt that folks took out over
Speaker 1: the holidays, like you said, are the bad kind. We're
Speaker 1: talking about credit card debt. A Walt Hubs survey shows
Speaker 1: that folks say that they overspent during the Christmas shopping season,
Speaker 1: and roughly the same percentage of Americans confessed that that
Speaker 1: meant taking on higher levels of debt. This is according
Speaker 1: to a lending Tree survey, the average American has one thousand,
Speaker 1: two nine dollars of debt weighing them down like an
Speaker 1: anvil this time of year. From Christmas, and of course,
Speaker 1: what is their preferred form of debts? Many of them
Speaker 1: put those purchases on their credit card. Uh, and they're
Speaker 1: stuck now with that debt for months to come. That
Speaker 1: is our problem that we're trying to address. That's right.
Speaker 1: And Matt, you might think after hearing those statistics that
Speaker 1: you and I were anti credit card, but that is
Speaker 1: not the case either, right, But we are against buying
Speaker 1: stuff we like to play with fire evidently, well, I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's definitely. It's one of those things we
Speaker 1: have always said is a tool. And think of all
Speaker 1: the wonderful things you can do with fire, exactly exactly,
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, you have a nice wood burning stove
Speaker 1: up on the screen port in your house. It's quite lovely.
Speaker 1: It's it's a great mood center, and it's just like
Speaker 1: provide some warmth during these winter months. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, like, yeah, you could burn the house down
Speaker 1: and you weren't careful. And so the same thing is
Speaker 1: true with credit cards. Right, We're not against buying stuff
Speaker 1: on on a credit card, but we are against buying
Speaker 1: that same stuff on a credit card if you're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to afford to pay that bill
Speaker 1: in full when it arrives. And so, yes, since January,
Speaker 1: debt hangovers have become like kind of a cycle. I
Speaker 1: would say for a lot of people Matt where they're like,
Speaker 1: how did I end up here again? Uh, let's talk
Speaker 1: about how we ensure that we don't end up in
Speaker 1: the same place in early planning ahead so that we
Speaker 1: avoid this cycle next year. So our first piece of advice,
Speaker 1: it's going to sound maybe kind of simple, but we
Speaker 1: would say to avoid debt in the first place. And
Speaker 1: that could probably be the entire like that could be
Speaker 1: the new title for this episode in the first place. Yes,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know you we've talked about strategies before
Speaker 1: to get yourself out of debt. But the best way
Speaker 1: to to dig yourself out of debt is to is
Speaker 1: to not have any to begin with, right, to not
Speaker 1: start in that hall. And and for most folks, the
Speaker 1: basic way to do that is to start planning ahead
Speaker 1: in a better way. And so, yeah, you might not
Speaker 1: be thinking about your Christmas or holiday present for late
Speaker 1: right now. I'm sure you're not like picking out presents
Speaker 1: for Grandma and your sister at this moment in time
Speaker 1: in January, but you should be baking the dollars you
Speaker 1: want to spend into your budget and your savings plan. Now.
Speaker 1: You should have an idea for how much you're going
Speaker 1: to spend later on in this year, even now, and
Speaker 1: you should be saving right now those dollars that you
Speaker 1: eventually want to spend in this right. Yeah, and now
Speaker 1: is the perfect time because you know roughly what you
Speaker 1: spent this past Christmas, so you can put together an
Speaker 1: accurate picture of of how much you will likely need
Speaker 1: tennis months from now. And plus you've got more time
Speaker 1: to save. You can make some of these these more
Speaker 1: minor changes to ensure that you avoid debt if you
Speaker 1: start soon enough. So, for instance, you know you've heard
Speaker 1: of lay away right kind of feels like this old
Speaker 1: school way of buying stuff, But you know that that's
Speaker 1: when you want to buy something, you don't have the money,
Speaker 1: but the retailer it sets the item aside and you
Speaker 1: make payments in order to finally make the purchase take
Speaker 1: the thing home. We've got no qualums with this approach,
Speaker 1: but you know it sometimes comes without it fees. We
Speaker 1: don't like that. Plus I hate the idea of a
Speaker 1: retailer being the one who holds your money, you know,
Speaker 1: like why let a retailer act as a savings account
Speaker 1: when you have your own savings account. And so we're
Speaker 1: all about the principles behind layaway, but we just want
Speaker 1: to see you doing that yourself. Plus actual lay away.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of disappearing right now because of the
Speaker 1: different buy now, pay later programs. But Joel, this this
Speaker 1: kind of makes me think of you know, earlier this month,
Speaker 1: we talked about some of the different money challenges that
Speaker 1: can jump start your finances. The fifty two Weeks Savings
Speaker 1: Challenge is made for saving for Christmas. Like literally, you
Speaker 1: set aside a dollar every single week, which means that
Speaker 1: even though we're a month into the year already, it's
Speaker 1: only gonna take you like tin bucks to get caught up.
Speaker 1: And you can join the fifty two Weeks Savings Challenge.
Speaker 1: And what's really cool, it's a it's a dollar week,
Speaker 1: but then it ramps up it's an extra dollar sorry exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so week one one dollar week to two dollars and
Speaker 1: then you know, obviously of your balance gets larger and larger.
Speaker 1: But what's super cool is that by the end of
Speaker 1: the year, you're gonna have like around which is the
Speaker 1: same amount of money that everyone is going in debt force.
Speaker 1: It is I feel like this challenge, the fifty two
Speaker 1: Weeks Savings challenge was made for saving money and setting
Speaker 1: it aside for Christmas. So if that's something that you
Speaker 1: missed earlier this month, will make sure to include that
Speaker 1: sign up in the show. No, it's for this episode
Speaker 1: up on the website at how the Money dot com.
Speaker 1: But we would highly recommend if you have had a
Speaker 1: problem going into debt for Christmas, that you at least
Speaker 1: consider joining the fifty two week savings Plane. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm bad at planning, but I really really
Speaker 1: want to make sure that this doesn't happen again, that
Speaker 1: turning it into a game. It's like we talked about,
Speaker 1: is this great way to make planning ahead a little
Speaker 1: bit easier because you're challenging yourself and you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna rise this challenge. I'm gonna make it happen. And
Speaker 1: and Matt, if if people sign up for that challenge,
Speaker 1: not only will they get helpful reminder email from us,
Speaker 1: but also a PDF that you created to help them
Speaker 1: track their progress and print it out physical representation of
Speaker 1: the money progress that you're making. Is is just so
Speaker 1: helpful in in helping you like stay at it. And
Speaker 1: you mentioned by now pay later, which I wanted to
Speaker 1: touch on too, because you're right, like those layaway plans
Speaker 1: at Walmart brought him back I don't know, seven or
Speaker 1: eight years ago and they became popular kind of again.
Speaker 1: But now they're they're becoming less popular because by now
Speaker 1: pay later is like the new layaway, but there are problems.
Speaker 1: It's we don't think by now, pay later is helpful
Speaker 1: for folks in the same way that layaway plans were
Speaker 1: because with by now pay later plans, you're getting the
Speaker 1: item right now, which provides that immediate gratification, whereas with layaway,
Speaker 1: the retailers holding onto the item until you actually have
Speaker 1: all the money in hand to to pay for it,
Speaker 1: or even not l away, but just the preferred method
Speaker 1: of you saving up cash to buy something yourself. As
Speaker 1: you're saving o that money, yeah you've got that money
Speaker 1: in the bank, but you do not yet have that item.
Speaker 1: So there's this massive difference in how we experience the
Speaker 1: act of buying something. If we immediately get an item
Speaker 1: when we didn't have the money versus if the store
Speaker 1: is holding onto it or versus waiting until we actually
Speaker 1: have all the money to purchase the item at once,
Speaker 1: we feel like we can move on and start buying
Speaker 1: other stuff that we want, because heck, we're on that
Speaker 1: payment plan. Just four or six easy payments and you know,
Speaker 1: we'll be done paying off that Teddy Bear for our
Speaker 1: daughter in in like, you know, four months, which sounds
Speaker 1: crazy for smaller toys, but that's that's how far by
Speaker 1: now pay later is going. Is You're you're stretching out.
Speaker 1: You'll being able to stretch out almost any anything that
Speaker 1: you want to buy now, even just an article of clothing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that shift that takes place, I mean it makes me
Speaker 1: think about going for like a run or like going
Speaker 1: to work out or something like that. Sometimes folks will
Speaker 1: reward themselves with like maybe a little piece of chocolate
Speaker 1: after they get back from their run. Right, it's sort
Speaker 1: of like saying, Okay, I want to give myself the
Speaker 1: chocolate now, and then after that then I'm going to
Speaker 1: go for a run. Like no, what's the point, Like,
Speaker 1: if you haven't actually earned the thing yet, I think
Speaker 1: you have a much less chance of actually doing the
Speaker 1: hard thing as opposed to immediately gratifying yourself with the easy, fun,
Speaker 1: delicious thing. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And and it seems
Speaker 1: like because we're we're putting the purchase down into bite
Speaker 1: size payment chunks that we can actually afford things that
Speaker 1: that ultimately we really can't afford, and and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna be paying for the item for months to come.
Speaker 1: And it just it's psychologically makes it so much easier
Speaker 1: to buy stuff that we we don't need or that
Speaker 1: we don't have the money to buy, which increases the
Speaker 1: likelihood that we're gonna find ourselves back in this debt hole.
Speaker 1: So I think by now pay later is it seems
Speaker 1: like a solution to people where they can get the
Speaker 1: things that they want without taking on debt, because you know,
Speaker 1: you're just doing an installment plan instead of taking put
Speaker 1: it on the credit card. But but ultimately it's it's
Speaker 1: having a very similar effect on your budget. Yeah. Well
Speaker 1: that also assumes that you make your payments on time.
Speaker 1: You're assuming the best case scenario. But if let's say
Speaker 1: you hit a little rough patch and you're not able
Speaker 1: to make that payment, well that's when you're gonna be
Speaker 1: hit with those late fees. And that's I mean, you
Speaker 1: call it what you want, you call a late fee,
Speaker 1: you call it interest payments. You are still paying more
Speaker 1: for an item because you're using leverage to to buy
Speaker 1: things that you can't afford in the here and now.
Speaker 1: But we're gonna give some more practical tips for keeping
Speaker 1: folks out of debts, and we'll get to those after
Speaker 1: this break. All right, Matt, we're back. We're talking about
Speaker 1: how to keep yourself out of debts, right and you know,
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about why for a second. And Um,
Speaker 1: that might sound self explanatory, but one of the things
Speaker 1: we want to point out, we want to make sure
Speaker 1: you hear, is that you know, the biggest problem with
Speaker 1: debt isn't necessarily the fact that you want new stuff.
Speaker 1: Matt and I were not against buying new things on occasion.
Speaker 1: We get the new items occasionally, yes, and we're human.
Speaker 1: I talked to you in passing about the home rento
Speaker 1: that I'm doing at our house right now. We're doing
Speaker 1: a lot of work and it involves buying a lot
Speaker 1: of new stuff and it's gonna get used. You get
Speaker 1: new tile exactly. You didn't get used would although I
Speaker 1: thought about getting used out but I did not. Um,
Speaker 1: And it's it's it's one of those things where or
Speaker 1: at least it's like vintage tile at reclaimed would oftentimes
Speaker 1: that's all even actually more expensive than getting even new
Speaker 1: the new stuff. True, it's like, we don't wanna pretend
Speaker 1: that we don't buy new stuff. And and and we have
Speaker 1: friends in this space, friends we've had on the show
Speaker 1: who are almost like against buying new stuff at all,
Speaker 1: and they make that a pattern of their lives to
Speaker 1: encourage people not to buy new things, and they don't
Speaker 1: do it themselves. And we think that's admirable, but that's
Speaker 1: not the stance that we take. And so we just
Speaker 1: we don't want to suggest that you shouldn't be buying
Speaker 1: new things, but we do want to suggest and uh
Speaker 1: strongly suggest that you shouldn't be paying interest in order
Speaker 1: to finance the new stuff. That's what we dislike. And so, yeah,
Speaker 1: not being able to pay for it in full means
Speaker 1: that you're paying more for everything that you're buying. And
Speaker 1: the average person Matt has a revolving credit card balance
Speaker 1: of close to six thousand dollars, which means not only
Speaker 1: do they have that like credit card debt hangover right
Speaker 1: now in January, but at the same time they're they're
Speaker 1: paying roughly a thousand dollars in interest to the credit
Speaker 1: card companies every single year, and you know, that's a
Speaker 1: huge portion of your annual income going to the credit
Speaker 1: card companies because you were not able to rain in
Speaker 1: some of that spending, right, And so yeah, just think
Speaker 1: of all the other good that that money could be
Speaker 1: doing for you, not for the visa or master card.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we would say utilizing debt for everyday
Speaker 1: purchases means that you're overpaying for everything. Everything that if
Speaker 1: it's sixty bucks, it turns out it actually costs you
Speaker 1: seventy two dollars, right, everything is costing you more, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And remember too that the concept of interest, like that
Speaker 1: concept right there, like that isn't inherently evil either. You
Speaker 1: just want to make sure that you are on the
Speaker 1: receiving end of interest, not on the paying end. We've
Speaker 1: used this analogy before, but interest is kind of like
Speaker 1: an escalator, right, and so when you're walking up the
Speaker 1: side that is going up like a normal human being,
Speaker 1: you're going to get to that next floor really quickly.
Speaker 1: Like that is what happens when you invest your money
Speaker 1: and you've got interest working for you. But if you're
Speaker 1: going against the flow, you've got the steps coming at
Speaker 1: you rather than with you. It sounds like a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. If you're like a middle schooler, then it's
Speaker 1: gonna take so much more effort. And that is what
Speaker 1: it's like to have consumer debt. That's a great way
Speaker 1: to think about interest. You what it's working for you,
Speaker 1: not against Yeah, and this is not an episode about investing,
Speaker 1: but we talked about that enough and how that is
Speaker 1: giving you the opposite effect over time, right that that
Speaker 1: your money is working for you, whereas you know, when
Speaker 1: you're in debt, uh, the lack of money is working
Speaker 1: against you. Now that we're planning ahead, though, in order
Speaker 1: to attempt to avoid debt in the future, it's also
Speaker 1: important to evaluate what lad you into debt in the
Speaker 1: first place. So we'd say that's another really important step
Speaker 1: in making sure that you don't find yourself ground like
Speaker 1: groundhog Day, you know, in the same position every single year.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, there are probably some underlying behaviors that
Speaker 1: you're not incredibly aware of that you need to kind
Speaker 1: of come to grips with, Like was it something random
Speaker 1: like a medical bill from an accident that was a
Speaker 1: one time thing, Because that's that's a different thing that
Speaker 1: we're talking about when it comes to the debt load
Speaker 1: that you have in your life. If so, then a
Speaker 1: simple solution is to have more cash in savings. You
Speaker 1: probably know what we're gonna say here, but you need
Speaker 1: an emergency fund, right, and so yeah, for for those
Speaker 1: that margin, those things you can't plan for, you've gotta
Speaker 1: have the margin exactly, and so yeah, it's it's obviously
Speaker 1: it's way easier to not go into debt if you've
Speaker 1: got cash money on hand in your account. And the
Speaker 1: number we think you should be working towards as a
Speaker 1: minimum threshold of savings is two thousand, four hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty seven dollars. That's the number we always share because
Speaker 1: that is a statistic that economists have found to be
Speaker 1: helpful for the majority of people. And hopefully hopefully that
Speaker 1: I fund grows even bigger. Matt like more people should
Speaker 1: have more money than that in savings, but getting at
Speaker 1: least to that buffer point is crucial when it comes
Speaker 1: to staying out of debt in the future. That's right,
Speaker 1: And honestly, with inflation, it is probably more than two
Speaker 1: four six seven. That's probably yeah, that's true. It's probably
Speaker 1: now it's like or something. Yeah, But until we get
Speaker 1: that new updated number, we're holding to the two four
Speaker 1: six seven number. But having savings on hand, this provides
Speaker 1: an incredibly tangible benefit. There are real dollars there to
Speaker 1: help you out in case you need them. But it
Speaker 1: also has like some of these uh psychle logical benefits
Speaker 1: and ramifications as well. You know, just knowing that you
Speaker 1: have money on hand to tackle any emergency that might
Speaker 1: come along, it's going to diminish the stress that you
Speaker 1: feel when you think about your finances. Just knowing that
Speaker 1: you've got money to cover an unexpected expense or even
Speaker 1: a last minute gift for a friend that slipped your mind.
Speaker 1: It's just relaxing in a really helpful way to know
Speaker 1: that you do have that margin, you have that money
Speaker 1: set aside. It's not just about physically covering the cost
Speaker 1: of something, but just the mental benefit that it can
Speaker 1: provide as well. Yeah, and knowing how you got into
Speaker 1: trouble in the first place just helps you know how
Speaker 1: to get out right. If you know that you took
Speaker 1: this path down into this pit in the Grand Cany
Speaker 1: and you're like, how do I get out of here?
Speaker 1: When you're when you're on a hike, when you can
Speaker 1: go up the way you came. But if you're if
Speaker 1: you kind of lost your positioning and you're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to get back up, you might take
Speaker 1: a more treacherous path or something, right, And so we
Speaker 1: want you to know how you got into it in
Speaker 1: the first place. If it was just slow and steady
Speaker 1: spend this drip drip drip, where you were just spending
Speaker 1: more than you made every single month, that's a different
Speaker 1: story and that needs to be addressed a little bit
Speaker 1: differently than something like a one time medical bill, right,
Speaker 1: and and so yeah, that that's when you you start
Speaker 1: to evaluate, you realize maybe it was more than than
Speaker 1: a random one off event. And so yeah, in this case, uh,
Speaker 1: if it is that drip drip drip, what we want
Speaker 1: a huge component of avoiding debt is to tamp down
Speaker 1: lifestyle inflation, because the less of stuff that you're jonesing
Speaker 1: to buy, the more intact your finances are going to be.
Speaker 1: You'll be less inclined to take on debt if you
Speaker 1: have what Matt and I like to call lower expectations.
Speaker 1: And it's it's one of those things that sounds a
Speaker 1: little weird, to lower your expectations. Who tells people that, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody is you and I do? We do, and it's
Speaker 1: it's certainly counter to the consumption based economy we live in,
Speaker 1: but there's real power in having lower expectations. For instance,
Speaker 1: if you work out, let's say, three times a week,
Speaker 1: but your expectation to work out is only twice a week,
Speaker 1: you are going to be so happy because you are
Speaker 1: an overachiever crushing it. But if you're expecting to work
Speaker 1: out five days a week, you're probably not going to
Speaker 1: be happy with just getting you know, on your buy
Speaker 1: here to the gym three times. And so lifestyle inflation
Speaker 1: is similar. If we can change our expectations, we'll find
Speaker 1: that we can easily be happier with less. And when
Speaker 1: we're happier with less, that makes it far less painful
Speaker 1: to say no, which helps to keep us out of debt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, the fact is too that that someone might
Speaker 1: have champagne taste on a beer budget. And yeah, the
Speaker 1: I like expensive stuff, right, some people? What can I say?
Speaker 1: Some people do they raise that way or they just
Speaker 1: maybe even were raised in like a house where fancy
Speaker 1: stuff was like completely ignored, and so they were like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want my portion of fancy stuff now. But they
Speaker 1: can't actually afford it, and so the psychological shift is
Speaker 1: really the only remedy in that case. Right, Um, And
Speaker 1: you know we talked about sometimes like intentionally taking on hardship,
Speaker 1: and yeah, there are a lot of stoic Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean that's certainly a philosophy of the stoics is
Speaker 1: to intentionally do hard things to build your resilience levels.
Speaker 1: So there are certain things we would never ask people
Speaker 1: to do just the same of building resilience. We're not
Speaker 1: necessarily stoics, but there are things that we believe that
Speaker 1: we could do to better ourselves and certainly better our
Speaker 1: our our financial position. Yeah, initiating a certain amount of
Speaker 1: hardship on purpose can be a good thing, and not
Speaker 1: only just from your savings habit now staying out of debt,
Speaker 1: but also just from you know, an emotional psychological standpoint.
Speaker 1: And we would say, like intentionally stepping out of your
Speaker 1: comfort zone that can allow you to completely rethink an
Speaker 1: issue that maybe you used to think was important but
Speaker 1: now it kind of isn't any more. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: during a moment of clarity where you're intentionally doing something
Speaker 1: more difficult, like a spending challenge or a Savings challenge.
Speaker 1: Like we've talked about different things that you can implement
Speaker 1: into your life to kind of make it a little
Speaker 1: more make the road a little more difficult for a
Speaker 1: shorter period of time. It can allow you to adopt
Speaker 1: a healthier perspective moving forward. And so, yeah, putting yourself
Speaker 1: in some of those harder situations on purpose helps to
Speaker 1: build some of that resiliency that we think is important
Speaker 1: to help keep you out of debt in the future too.
Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, as you're talking about the challenges,
Speaker 1: it makes me think of the no spend challenge because
Speaker 1: for some people that is going to be a form
Speaker 1: of self deprivation, right to say I am not going
Speaker 1: to spend in this particular category for the rest of
Speaker 1: the year. And again we'll make sure to link to
Speaker 1: the episode where we talked about some of the different challenges,
Speaker 1: but those will all be available to sign up for
Speaker 1: in our show notes. But you know, like it, it
Speaker 1: also does make me think of some of these different
Speaker 1: practices I've heard of. I've heard of folks who will
Speaker 1: like only eat beans and rice for an entire week,
Speaker 1: and it's not like go on some special diet. They're
Speaker 1: just literally doing that in order for them to appreciate
Speaker 1: the food that they normally eat that they do have
Speaker 1: access to the same thing I actually need somebody in
Speaker 1: college you did this, uh, And he would sleep on
Speaker 1: a sleeping bag on the floor in order to appreciate
Speaker 1: his bed. In his case, he was getting ready to
Speaker 1: go camping, like he would do it, paring yourself for
Speaker 1: for that. Eventually, when he went camping, he would enjoy
Speaker 1: it because it was something he was more used to.
Speaker 1: But again, we're not necessarily recommending you go that far,
Speaker 1: but finding some small ways to introduce some of these
Speaker 1: challenges I think can be a good way for us
Speaker 1: to kind of take the like stoicism. Lie. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think there was something the other day, I don't
Speaker 1: remember what it was where Emily and I were talking
Speaker 1: and it was something really special that we got to
Speaker 1: do and we just had a lot of fun. And
Speaker 1: I was like, man, you know some people do this
Speaker 1: almost every day like that, or I think it was
Speaker 1: a special meal that we shared, and I was like,
Speaker 1: some people, I don't know that. I see they're eating
Speaker 1: like this on the rag. How can you appreciate it
Speaker 1: if you're doing it all the time? And I was
Speaker 1: just so appreciative that we got to have that experience,
Speaker 1: and I think it makes it even more valuable when
Speaker 1: it's not something that's a constant in your life. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, you have to everyone has to
Speaker 1: identify their craft beer equivalent exactly. That's what we're always
Speaker 1: trying to strike that balance, right exactly. Another helpful practical
Speaker 1: way to stay out of debt that we wanted to
Speaker 1: mention too is to get rid of some of the
Speaker 1: different triggers that cause you to spend. We want you
Speaker 1: to avoid temptation in the first place, because if you
Speaker 1: can avoid that temptation in the first place, that might
Speaker 1: also allow you to avoid debts to begin with. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, it's easier to say no to eating ice
Speaker 1: cream if you don't have any ice cream in the freezer. Right,
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot harder if you have to
Speaker 1: resist it when it's just ten feet away behind the
Speaker 1: doors of your freezer. Have the willpower amount that's needed
Speaker 1: to avoid it, just like it just went up, vastly
Speaker 1: stronger amounts of willpower required. That's why we have the
Speaker 1: old adage of never going grocery shopping while you're hungry.
Speaker 1: But for general spending, this probably means using different social
Speaker 1: media platforms like Instagram or TikTok less often maybe not
Speaker 1: even at all, if that's the place that consistently gets
Speaker 1: you to spend. I say this from personal experience, but
Speaker 1: the different algorithms and ads that pop up. Man on Instagram,
Speaker 1: they've gotten so good, And I swear I searched for
Speaker 1: one thing, and I try to do some price comparing online,
Speaker 1: and then next time I hop on Instagram, you know,
Speaker 1: literally every other ad that I'm fed, it's just like
Speaker 1: five versions of that exact item that I'm looking. I
Speaker 1: think Instagram knows you better than your best friend. Man,
Speaker 1: sorry I don't know you as well. That's probably right.
Speaker 1: But something else you might need to unsubscribe from your
Speaker 1: favorite retailer. You know, the emails at least send out
Speaker 1: where they're giving you the different discounts and what new
Speaker 1: items they have in stock. We want you to determine
Speaker 1: where temptation sets in for you and actively work to
Speaker 1: avoid those situations moving forward. But we've got several other
Speaker 1: practical steps that we're gonna recommend for you to consider
Speaker 1: in your life. And we're also going to talk about
Speaker 1: shifting debt around whether that makes sense for you or not.
Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that right after this break.
Speaker 1: We'll back. We're still talking about staying out of debts,
Speaker 1: and one of the things we talked about is that
Speaker 1: part of the problem is that people are putting purchases
Speaker 1: on credit cards. And again we want to reiterate we're
Speaker 1: not against credit cards. We are heavy users have credit
Speaker 1: cards whose pay the bill off on time and in
Speaker 1: full every month. But one thing that might need to
Speaker 1: happen for some people who have a tough time actually
Speaker 1: using credit cards and using them well, who say, actually,
Speaker 1: this tool in my hands is an instrument of of
Speaker 1: evil for my finances, then cash might be something that
Speaker 1: they need to consider. And so I want to point
Speaker 1: out something that you said that you said this tool
Speaker 1: is an instrument for evil. You didn't say that it's
Speaker 1: an evil instrument, right, And that's what we're saying here.
Speaker 1: It's like it's being able to realize that you're not
Speaker 1: able to use it effectively, that you are evil. It's
Speaker 1: not the tool. It's like it's like a really sharp knife, right,
Speaker 1: Like used effectively, you want a really sharp knife. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of chefs say that like the worst
Speaker 1: accidents that happened in the kitchen, they happened with a
Speaker 1: dull knife because you're not able to use it properly.
Speaker 1: But guess what, you can also cut off the tip
Speaker 1: of a finger with a really sharp knife too, so
Speaker 1: you do need to be careful. It's also kind of
Speaker 1: like the ring in Froto's hands versus in Gollum's hands.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's there's a clear winner that you
Speaker 1: want that that he can use the tool effectively. The
Speaker 1: other guy is just gonna worship it, right, But eventually
Speaker 1: Frodo also knew that he had to get rid of
Speaker 1: the rings. It was also it was only destroyed by
Speaker 1: by an accident, so that's an imperfect analogy. But speaking
Speaker 1: of severed fingers, all right, so this is cash is
Speaker 1: not our preferred method to buy things, Like we said,
Speaker 1: we use credit cards, but yeah, if you have a
Speaker 1: hard time not going overboard, then yeah, using cash is
Speaker 1: going to be helpful. And if you want to continue
Speaker 1: to use plastic because of the rewards and you think
Speaker 1: that you can do better, we would say make a
Speaker 1: point to write down every purchase that you make when
Speaker 1: you make them, so kind of like a ledger on
Speaker 1: a checkbook, the old school thing, but make your own
Speaker 1: and carry it around with you wherever you go, because
Speaker 1: keeping track of every expense and you know the current
Speaker 1: balance that's left in your account, even though it's not
Speaker 1: actively coming out of your account, is gonna help ensure
Speaker 1: that you're not spending more than you have. So we'd
Speaker 1: say no yourself. If you can't use a credit card responsibly,
Speaker 1: don't do it um. And then if you're somewhere in between,
Speaker 1: you're like, I think I can then give this a shot.
Speaker 1: Or you're tracking your spending as you go, because that
Speaker 1: can help you stay out of that that's right. But
Speaker 1: if you can't, you know, avoid it altogether because that
Speaker 1: you know, that seven fifty dollar sign a bonus, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna be worth it if you're going to overspend
Speaker 1: from now until the end of time. But like you said,
Speaker 1: if you are using your credit card wisely for the
Speaker 1: most part, but maybe you just need a little bit
Speaker 1: more accountability, it's pretty easy to turn on notifications where
Speaker 1: you get alerted or you know, you get a little
Speaker 1: text message every time that card is used. And so
Speaker 1: I think this could be a really handy uh method
Speaker 1: if you have combined finances with your partner. But this
Speaker 1: could even be something that you implement with a money
Speaker 1: accountability partner, someone you know, who you trust, who is
Speaker 1: willing to help coach you a little bit. Uh. And
Speaker 1: the thing is too, this can go both ways. It
Speaker 1: can be a reciprocal relationship. If you have found somebody
Speaker 1: who shares the you know, similar goals as you, who
Speaker 1: has shared interests, who is also frugal, this canna be
Speaker 1: a practice that goes both ways. Like it makes me
Speaker 1: think back like back in the Dagil especially if you
Speaker 1: know I was married, you had just gotten married, um
Speaker 1: to Emily. But if you were single, and if I
Speaker 1: was single, I could totally you know, when we first
Speaker 1: met in More Buds, I could totally see us having
Speaker 1: been like financial accountability partners to a certain extent because
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, we've shared recently during our
Speaker 1: money origin stories how like we were getting into real
Speaker 1: estate and to kind of have that accountability of like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you think that's really gonna be worth it? Or
Speaker 1: are you gonna put that money towards a down payment
Speaker 1: for that rental property that you've been talking about. That's
Speaker 1: the kind of give and take that's the kind of
Speaker 1: behavior and like camaraderie honestly that we're hoping that you
Speaker 1: can start implementing in your life. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot to be said for expertise and
Speaker 1: having being in a relationship with someone who's more knowledgeable
Speaker 1: than you are, some something like a mentor, right, a
Speaker 1: money mentor or something like that. But I think there's
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot to be said for doing
Speaker 1: it simultaneously with someone that you're close with, even if
Speaker 1: they don't know a whole lot more than you, because
Speaker 1: you can spur each other on. And sometimes it is
Speaker 1: it's like you don't necessarily need some Arnold Schwarzenegger looking, uh,
Speaker 1: super fit person to help you work out. It could
Speaker 1: just be a friend who's willing to show up at
Speaker 1: the same time as you, and that can be also
Speaker 1: wants to work out because he deals with the same struggles.
Speaker 1: That can be just as effective, I think as hiring
Speaker 1: some sort of expensive personal trainer, totally and honestly to
Speaker 1: while we're talking about credit cards, it also makes me
Speaker 1: think about freezing your credit you know, uh, Well, we're
Speaker 1: talking about different things that you can implement, different layers
Speaker 1: of accountability, different barriers that you can erect that can
Speaker 1: keep you from accessing maybe more credit than you can handle. Uh.
Speaker 1: Even though yes, you can go in there and unfreeze
Speaker 1: it and then apply to that credit card, you still
Speaker 1: have the shame of being like, am I really going
Speaker 1: to go in there and unfreeze my credit? When I'm
Speaker 1: going back to the A T M at the casino? Like?
Speaker 1: Am I actually gonna do that? The walk of shape? Yeah, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's anything you can implement in your life like that
Speaker 1: that causes you to think twice about it. That's what
Speaker 1: we want you to consider. Yes, all right, Matt. Another
Speaker 1: thing that I think is really helpful for a lot
Speaker 1: of people when it comes to staying out of that
Speaker 1: is to create lists and then stick to them. Because
Speaker 1: let's say, yeah, you're grocery shopping, and it's so easy
Speaker 1: if you don't have a list to just toss random
Speaker 1: things in your card, like a six dollar box of
Speaker 1: Lucky Charms. Why not, Like, might as well throw in
Speaker 1: some bags of Doritos while I'm at it, And so yeah,
Speaker 1: if you don't have to throw in the towel, like
Speaker 1: nothing matters anymore. I'm getting all the junks I guess
Speaker 1: I'll get the hogandas too. I mean, there's all sorts
Speaker 1: of things if you don't have a list that's gonna
Speaker 1: that are gonna end up in your basket and at
Speaker 1: the end you're gonna be like, why was that bill
Speaker 1: so high? And how to them? I don't have anything
Speaker 1: to cook for dinner this week, still even after going
Speaker 1: on that grocery store run. And so yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that list is a full way to stay focused on
Speaker 1: the task at hand. Not only do they help you
Speaker 1: put blinders on, but they're also gonna to make sure
Speaker 1: that you get everything you need and then avoid another
Speaker 1: trip back to the store, which stinks. And while grocery
Speaker 1: shopping is a meaningful part of your monthly budget, like
Speaker 1: the stakes are a little bit lower than they are
Speaker 1: maybe in other phases of life. But I think to
Speaker 1: drive this point at home, Matt, there's the example of
Speaker 1: airline safety, and case after case when it comes to
Speaker 1: airline safety, it demonstrates that accidents on airplanes are almost
Speaker 1: always come from the pilot or the flight crew skipping
Speaker 1: a pre flight checklist. It's one of those things where
Speaker 1: they're like, I know this by heart. I don't know
Speaker 1: how to go to the checklist and then ultimately what
Speaker 1: ends up happening is they miss one or two of
Speaker 1: those important items and then disaster strikes. Right, And so
Speaker 1: we would say that lists are helpful in almost every
Speaker 1: sphere of life, and so you should start creating lists
Speaker 1: more frequently for grocery shopping, for your needs, for your kids,
Speaker 1: even like whatever it is, have a list set out
Speaker 1: when you're shopping for clothes, like what do you need
Speaker 1: so you don't end up buying random pairs of pants
Speaker 1: that aren't needed. Um, there are all sorts of ways
Speaker 1: to implement lists into your life so that you avoid
Speaker 1: buying more than you need and going into more debt.
Speaker 1: That's right. You can go with pin and paper, but
Speaker 1: you can just I mean, having digital lists on our
Speaker 1: phones is such an incredible help. I mean, Kate and
Speaker 1: we use the basic Apple Reminder's app when it comes to,
Speaker 1: you know, putting things on the grocery list that we need.
Speaker 1: But you can like to do isst any do? Like
Speaker 1: these are great applications that can allow you to stay focused,
Speaker 1: to help you to keep the blinders on when it
Speaker 1: comes to staying on task, and it could also be
Speaker 1: helpful to oper grocery pickup instead. You know what we're
Speaker 1: talking about food here, but when you do grocery pickup,
Speaker 1: but it helps you to avoid uh, not only the
Speaker 1: delivery fees, but this also means that you don't have
Speaker 1: to set foot inside the store if you have a
Speaker 1: tough time not going overboard when you go shopping in person. Target,
Speaker 1: they are totally free. In Kroger and Walmart are both
Speaker 1: free with a thirty five dollar minimum order, which isn't
Speaker 1: hard to do these days, and Grated. You know, these
Speaker 1: grocery stores aren't going to be as affordable as Aldi
Speaker 1: or Costco, our favorites. But if going with pick up
Speaker 1: at a slightly more expensive store keeps you from spending
Speaker 1: a ton in person at a more affordable store, we'll
Speaker 1: pick up is going to win every single time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's if you're going to go into Aldi and buy
Speaker 1: five bags of those Clancys uh Torito rip offs, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, people everybody disagree with me on that.
Speaker 1: And you know what, the last time I had them right,
Speaker 1: I think they're right. Honestly, I was terrible. I was like,
Speaker 1: they're much worse. To remember that you were saying that
Speaker 1: they're like pretty good and we we we had like
Speaker 1: listeners right in they're like, oh no, no, no no, no, no,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with actually way like Matt, we're with you
Speaker 1: the knockoff and I gotta say I'm with you two.
Speaker 1: I regret my decision to say that they were a
Speaker 1: worth worthy food item. They're not. You can go ahead
Speaker 1: and pick up a six pack of Aldi beer while
Speaker 1: you're eating your clain seas. You can ed your Clancys
Speaker 1: beer in your They have baked barbecue chips, which are
Speaker 1: actually pretty good, though are they I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're Clancys brand or something else, but um, whatever, the
Speaker 1: baked barbecue chips they're they're pretty good. Just avoid the
Speaker 1: Dritto dot com. Yes, actually do so. Sorry about that
Speaker 1: for advice earlier. But let's talk about discipline to Matt,
Speaker 1: because that's that's a part of the equation, right you
Speaker 1: have to I'm guessing there are some folks who are
Speaker 1: listening right now and they're saying, yeah, I track my
Speaker 1: spending and I create lists. That stuff's easy. Um, but
Speaker 1: just because those are hard, tangible actions that we can take,
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily make the getting to where we want
Speaker 1: to go easy. It doesn't mean the road is isn't hard.
Speaker 1: And so going back to physical fitness, right like, if
Speaker 1: you have a desire to eat more veggies um and
Speaker 1: to go on more runs, well, there are clear tangible
Speaker 1: steps you can take if you're trying to live a
Speaker 1: healthier life. It doesn't mean that actually living a healthier
Speaker 1: life is easy. It might be simple, like the steps
Speaker 1: might not be terribly difficult, but it doesn't mean it's easy.
Speaker 1: And so the same thing is true with our finances,
Speaker 1: right like simply put, spend less money than you make
Speaker 1: and invest the rest. That's how you build wealth. Like
Speaker 1: how in the world is there a personal finance podcast
Speaker 1: that has almost five episodes, like it's really it's it's
Speaker 1: not rockets. Formula is pretty simple. But again, there's a
Speaker 1: big difference between something being simple and something being easy. Yes,
Speaker 1: because it takes patients. As you work and you build
Speaker 1: up the discipline in your financial life. We would say,
Speaker 1: don't expect to perfectly turn your spending around on day
Speaker 1: one or even on day thirty. Progress is slower than
Speaker 1: we want it to be. It's gonna take some time,
Speaker 1: and so don't be hard on yourself when you make
Speaker 1: a mistake. Don't let that be the reason that you
Speaker 1: get off the train altogether, and you're like, screw it,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like go back to the debt cycle
Speaker 1: that that I've been in. But at the same time
Speaker 1: realize that discipline is is a real part of the
Speaker 1: equation to staying out of debt. That's right. Let's make
Speaker 1: another observation about debt real quick. Um, As we said,
Speaker 1: some forms of debt are going to be worse than others.
Speaker 1: A paid a loan right like like that comes with
Speaker 1: interest rates and the hundreds of percentage points if you
Speaker 1: were to annualize it, but your mortgage it might only
Speaker 1: have a rate of two point seven, most likely sub
Speaker 1: three on a third of your mortgage. There's just this
Speaker 1: massive gap like the size of Russia here. Uh. Like
Speaker 1: these things honestly, like they're more dissimilar than they are similar. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so one thing you should do is see if
Speaker 1: you can aim to make your current debt look better.
Speaker 1: The ultimate goal is to pay off those debts, for sure,
Speaker 1: but there are ways to make your debt less heinous
Speaker 1: while you're working towards that goal. Balance transfer offers are
Speaker 1: one excellent way to do this. We have an article
Speaker 1: up on the website that will actually link to in
Speaker 1: our show notes for this episode that will explain how
Speaker 1: balance transfers work if you've not given one of those
Speaker 1: a shot, as well as some of the cars that
Speaker 1: we recommend. You can also negotiate your debt if it's
Speaker 1: getting overwhelming. Know that you are not stuck in this
Speaker 1: rut of paying exactly what it is that you are
Speaker 1: entitled to pay. Know that you like there is some
Speaker 1: local room if you can negotiate with a credit card. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a good point. Mat. I
Speaker 1: think there are ways to make bad debt look not
Speaker 1: as bad by luring the a p R of that debt.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you mentioned a couple of going the APR,
Speaker 1: negotiening of the terms of an interest free period perhaps,
Speaker 1: and maybe you don't even have to negotiate, like you said,
Speaker 1: just transfer that batt it's to another card like are
Speaker 1: a readily available zero percent interest rate for eighteen months,
Speaker 1: and then while you're paying lesson interest, figure out find
Speaker 1: find a way to make sure that that card is
Speaker 1: paid off inside those eighteen months, so you're avoiding interest altogether. Um,
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think, like you said, there are
Speaker 1: ways that you can d I Y. This one thing
Speaker 1: that we don't ever want folks to do. Those to
Speaker 1: listen to people who want to consolidate your debt for you.
Speaker 1: Those are that's a pitfall and that will actually keep
Speaker 1: you in debt longer. That's not gonna help you stay
Speaker 1: out of debt. Uh. These companies often charge up front
Speaker 1: fees and they make these lofty promises, but they almost
Speaker 1: never help in the ways that they're promising too. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: we just make sure you avoid those companies they advertise
Speaker 1: on the internet. Avoid them like the plague. They often
Speaker 1: like leave people in just a much worse financial position.
Speaker 1: And so if you need actual help, the best place
Speaker 1: to turn is to nonprofit companies that have relationships with
Speaker 1: the credit card companies, with the companies that you might
Speaker 1: be in debt to who can actually help. They can
Speaker 1: help reach ructure your debt potentially, uh and help you
Speaker 1: come up with a payment plan that's actually gonna work.
Speaker 1: And so Money Management International is one of our favorites.
Speaker 1: NFCC dot org is another great place to turn. Those
Speaker 1: are two nonprofits that provide a whole lot of free
Speaker 1: help for people that continue to struggle with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, So we're talking mostly about staying out of debt,
Speaker 1: but we at least stuck in a little bit of
Speaker 1: getting out of debts talk here, uh and Joel, one
Speaker 1: other thing we wanted to mention, what about other like
Speaker 1: outside of the box options to avoid debt in the
Speaker 1: first place, Because you know, someone who's listening, they might
Speaker 1: say something like, well, you know, to avoid taking them
Speaker 1: more debt, I'm just gonna snack some money from my
Speaker 1: retirement funds. That's better than putting it on the credit card. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: they're both awful, not quite because you know, it's not
Speaker 1: that there aren't any instances we're taking money from a
Speaker 1: retirement account is the best route, but they are few
Speaker 1: and far between. Depending on what type of account you
Speaker 1: pull that money from and what mechanism you use to
Speaker 1: get it, you might owe taxes plus that additional ten
Speaker 1: percent penalty oftentimes and us Now that's money that is
Speaker 1: not invested. That's money that originally, at some point you
Speaker 1: had sacrificed and you had denied yourself, but instead now
Speaker 1: you're using the money to fund some purchases, and instead
Speaker 1: we want you to keep that money invested in your
Speaker 1: different retirement accounts. Please do not touch that money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that can be tempting. It's like Matt and Joel said
Speaker 1: that I should stay out of debt, and so the
Speaker 1: best way to do this is take cash that I
Speaker 1: have on hand out of my retirement account. You think
Speaker 1: that's cash on hand, but it's not that that should
Speaker 1: be like considered luck box money. And so, yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to do all of these other things. You don't
Speaker 1: want to be tempted to reach into that that bucket
Speaker 1: that's for your future starting yanking money out of there, because,
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, that is going to have devastating
Speaker 1: consequences for financial you ten years down the road. So yeah,
Speaker 1: hopefully these were some helpful thoughts on how to keep
Speaker 1: yourself out of debt, because we don't want to just
Speaker 1: see people climb out. We want to see people never
Speaker 1: not be able to pay that credit card bill in
Speaker 1: full ever. Again, Like, that's what we want that that
Speaker 1: never even have to cross your radar, to have enough
Speaker 1: money saved built up to where debt basically becomes a
Speaker 1: foreign concept in your life. That's that's what we want
Speaker 1: to see for you. That's right, ma, Let's go ahead
Speaker 1: and shift gears and go back to the beer that
Speaker 1: you and I enjoyed during this episode. Um, we had
Speaker 1: an Empress Rising, which is a bourbon barrel imperial stout
Speaker 1: by Birds Fly South up there in Greenville, South Carolina.
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on this beer? Okay, so I've
Speaker 1: had a few beers from Birds Fly South, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm used to their more earthy beer styles.
Speaker 1: They've got some good farmhouse farmhouse says on stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and I like everything I've had from them and that
Speaker 1: that those are styles that I really enjoy and appreciate.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had a stout from them,
Speaker 1: and this how this stout had like some funkiness to it,
Speaker 1: which I wasn't expecting. Um, it's not making my top
Speaker 1: ten list, but I feel like I can see what
Speaker 1: they were going for. It's just to me, the flavor
Speaker 1: profile is it's like there's one cylinder missing out of
Speaker 1: a six cylinder inchin or something. I feel like there's
Speaker 1: just something slightly off. It's just not probably doing it
Speaker 1: for me. Although I find it interesting and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, they usually make great beers, this is just
Speaker 1: not the best one I've had from them. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is specifically a a mole style, and so I do
Speaker 1: you know, earlier on Monday, we had a beer that
Speaker 1: was that was a hatch chili screen hatch, and we're
Speaker 1: talking about having beers with with more peppers in it,
Speaker 1: and so I appreciate that this has some of that
Speaker 1: going on. It's a mole style, so it's got some heat.
Speaker 1: You can taste the you know, the different Chipotle peppers.
Speaker 1: They've got some other peppers that are listed out here.
Speaker 1: But you mentioned that you feel like it's missing a cylinder.
Speaker 1: I feel like that there's an extra cylinder thrown then
Speaker 1: thrown in there, like it's like a four cylinder and
Speaker 1: somehow they fit a fifth. Because the acidity of this beer,
Speaker 1: like it wasn't noted anywhere on the can, but to me,
Speaker 1: like that's what really stands out. It's it's almost part
Speaker 1: which makes me wonder if this beer is slightly off
Speaker 1: or if maybe the pH wasn't exactly where they had
Speaker 1: intended it, because it doesn't say anything on this can
Speaker 1: about this kind of being more of a tart stout,
Speaker 1: and typically that's not a style that brewers are going for.
Speaker 1: But that being said, even if this is this beer
Speaker 1: is off, I still enjoyed it. It was still all
Speaker 1: those different flavors they had going on, that higher acidity.
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear me talking about acid all the
Speaker 1: time on the on the podcast with when it comes
Speaker 1: to my beers. But I really like having a beer
Speaker 1: that's higher in a cidity. It's just that maybe the
Speaker 1: flavors aren't totally on, Like it's a well balanced beer,
Speaker 1: but maybe the actual specific flavors might be off. I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not totally sure. We haven't had a ton
Speaker 1: of off beers, and so I feel like I need
Speaker 1: to need to take a course and like this is
Speaker 1: what you need to look for tastes, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: so specifically, I know one of the things that you
Speaker 1: look for in a bad beer is if it tastes
Speaker 1: like butter. So I think maybe like an I P
Speaker 1: A S or maybe I can't remember specifically what styles.
Speaker 1: Isn't that what Harry Potter drinks. It's true, but Harry
Speaker 1: Potter likes bad beer, that's true. Evidently he likes beer
Speaker 1: that has like this chemical But if it tastes like
Speaker 1: if you are drinking a beer and it tastes like
Speaker 1: butter popcorn and it's not supposed to. That is a
Speaker 1: clear sign of a beer that is off. When it
Speaker 1: comes to this one, I'm not totally sure. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of like there's a big question mark on this beer.
Speaker 1: But I still enjoyed it. Well, good times. They'll tell
Speaker 1: you that a medical the listeners. When I was there
Speaker 1: at the brewer, you did. Yeah, So it's always fun.
Speaker 1: By the way, if anybody like just come up and
Speaker 1: say hi, we love just meeting people, especially if we're
Speaker 1: at a brewery. I mean, that's like, that's how they
Speaker 1: know it's us exactly. That's gonna be it for this episode. Listeners.
Speaker 1: You can find show notes up on the website, and
Speaker 1: how It's Money dot Com will make sure to link
Speaker 1: to any of the different resources that we may have
Speaker 1: mentioned during this episode, yes, including some of those money challenges.
Speaker 1: If you have not joined, please do sign up for that.
Speaker 1: It's completely free, we won't spam you, and hopefully it'll
Speaker 1: help you achieve some of those money goals, including staying
Speaker 1: out of debts. Right all right, Matt, Until next time,
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,