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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and

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Speaker 1: today we're discussing how to keep yourself out of debt. Yeah, dude,

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Speaker 1: this makes me think about Okay, so you know the

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Speaker 1: played out scene and pretty much any TV show, cartoon,

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Speaker 1: or movie where somebody like gets kicked thrown out of

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Speaker 1: a bar and they're like, get out of here, and

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Speaker 1: they throw them and then they're like and stay out.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about today. And we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about We're not going to focus on how to get

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Speaker 1: out of debt. We're gonna talk about how you can

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Speaker 1: stay out of debts. And by the way, have you

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Speaker 1: ever gotten like kicked out of a bar? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I'm trying to think. I wish I had

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Speaker 1: a good story, but you and I are two, We're

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Speaker 1: two law abiding dudes, and yeah, I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: even ever been asked to leave. I tend to be fair,

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Speaker 1: really well behaved when I'm mountain, one thing I'm not

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Speaker 1: terribly proud of. But a long time ago, this is

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Speaker 1: what I'm day before I the dirt, Okay, at a

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Speaker 1: Braves game, I was sitting next to the bullpen for

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Speaker 1: the opposing team the It was the Florida Marlins back then.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they had name changed. They're the worst,

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Speaker 1: and I think I maybe was like just you know,

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Speaker 1: not no cursewords or anything like that, but just just

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Speaker 1: some general unkind heckling. Yes, the part of the game.

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Speaker 1: And I remember as the security guy coming up to

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Speaker 1: me like that's enough, and I was like, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: I'm done. But he didn't ask you to leave or anything.

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Speaker 1: No, no no, no, I did. I hadn't gotten to that point.

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Speaker 1: I just said a few things and he was like,

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Speaker 1: that's your good buddy. Okay. I hadn't even been drinking.

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Speaker 1: I was just literally just kind of a pump punk kid,

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Speaker 1: I think, a punk yeah, being a punk kid. So

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Speaker 1: you were right behind the dugout or no, behind the

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Speaker 1: bullpen in the outfield? Yeah, oh, in the outfield, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking because if you were, no, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have the premos seat. If you can get the premos

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Speaker 1: seats occasionally, because back then you could get the company

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Speaker 1: tickets and if nobody claimed those, I mean you're sitting

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Speaker 1: pretty close to the batter's box. Yeah. Well, even back

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Speaker 1: in the day, almost no one went to Braves games,

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Speaker 1: so you could get the cheap tickets and still like

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Speaker 1: move up to the fancy seats, which which was nice.

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Speaker 1: That was one of those like extra perks where like oh,

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Speaker 1: going down for the four hundreds to the one hundreds

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Speaker 1: without paying any more money? Was it? Joyce? Was that

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Speaker 1: the the usher? Yes? She was really. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: I remember her name. She was awesome. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: what section she was in charge of guarding. Then she

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Speaker 1: did not keep out the people who are not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be out. Well, in our case, we got to

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Speaker 1: know her pretty well. And there's value in relationships. That's

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Speaker 1: what that taught me to And Joyce, she and I

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Speaker 1: became friends and we would sit there. We would talk

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Speaker 1: during the game and stuff, and I got to know her,

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Speaker 1: she got to know my family. It was one of

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Speaker 1: those things where, uh, it just we just kept going

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Speaker 1: down to that section and hung out with Joyce every

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Speaker 1: time we went to a baseball game. I missed those days. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: And the fact is, if you know, it's the second

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Speaker 1: third inning and she looks down and only the rows

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, have people in them, Like, why

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Speaker 1: not let somebody down? It looks better for TV? Right, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's what I always thought. If there are people in

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Speaker 1: the stands, then you're gonna go. Yes, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember watching speaking of the Marlins their games, and

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Speaker 1: there they used to be in. I don't know these days,

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Speaker 1: I don't watch baseball as much, and we don't even

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Speaker 1: know if there's gonna be a baseball season this year

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Speaker 1: or not at this point. But nobody went to the

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Speaker 1: Marlins games, Like nobody. You think someone would hit a

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Speaker 1: home run and you would see somebody from like four

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Speaker 1: sections over running over to try to get the home running.

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Speaker 1: Five minutes later they get the ball exactly. That's how

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Speaker 1: a few people there were at those games. But Matt,

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Speaker 1: let's let's move on. Let's mention the beer that we're

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Speaker 1: having on this episode. This one is called Empress Rising.

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Speaker 1: It's a bourbon barrel aged stout by Birds Fly South.

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Speaker 1: You pick this up on your recent trek to South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and uh, we'll give our thoughts on this

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Speaker 1: one at the end of the episode, but for now,

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Speaker 1: let's get on. Let's talk about debt for a second.

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Speaker 1: And and like you said, Matt, we're talking about how

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Speaker 1: to keep yourself out of debt. So We've done episodes

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Speaker 1: on how to get out of debt, but but the

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Speaker 1: thing is, nobody talks about how to stay out of debt,

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Speaker 1: and so for for some people, debt becomes this recurring cycle.

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Speaker 1: And you made a good analogy at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the episode, But what it made me think of was

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Speaker 1: the Seinfeld Reservation episode. Do you remember that one? Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that? You always bring up Seinfeld and I

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Speaker 1: always have to say, no, I'm not a boomer, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like this gen xer who is in love

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Speaker 1: with Seinfeld. Please, there are lots of millennials and Gen

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Speaker 1: zears watching Seinfeld on Netflix as we speak. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be surprised, honestly if there are more gen's ears watching

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Speaker 1: Seinfeld as like a nostalgia thing, because I feel like millennials,

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Speaker 1: it was just before time, so it's not old enough

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Speaker 1: to be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean I've

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Speaker 1: I've watched a number of episodes. I'm not like a

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Speaker 1: Seinfeld person all the way, although I do think it's

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Speaker 1: really funny. But there's this one episode, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's maybe one of the funnier ones where Jerry gets

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Speaker 1: to the rental car counter and they're like, I'm sorry, sir,

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Speaker 1: we don't have a car for you. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: but I have a reservation and they're like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: still don't have the car. He's like, wait, wait a second.

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Speaker 1: You know how to take the reservation, but you don't

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Speaker 1: know how to keep the reservation, and really that's the

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Speaker 1: most important part. And they're you know, they go through

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Speaker 1: this whole song of dance talking to the supervisor and

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Speaker 1: all that, and he's just you know, lamb basting the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. Um. I think he eventually gets like a

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Speaker 1: subcompact car or something like that. But similarly, folks might

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Speaker 1: know how to get out of debt, and but the

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Speaker 1: problem is they might have to be doing it on

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Speaker 1: a regular basis because they don't know how to stay

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Speaker 1: out of debt. And so, yeah, you might find yourself

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Speaker 1: digging out of a debt hole each year right around

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Speaker 1: this time, because this is when most people are getting

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Speaker 1: their credit card statements in the mail or in the email,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and so holiday spending that it tends to

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Speaker 1: sneak up on a lot of people and that's why

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Speaker 1: so many folks are feeling the after effects now. But

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Speaker 1: we think a crucial part of making meaningful progress with

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Speaker 1: your money is learning how to take debt to the

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Speaker 1: curb for good, at least the kinds of debt that

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Speaker 1: we think are are the worst forms. Yeah, because you know,

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Speaker 1: we also try to give a nuance take when we

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Speaker 1: talk about debt, like, we don't think that all forms

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Speaker 1: of debt are inherently evil. There are some forms of

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Speaker 1: debt that are certainly way less evil that that than

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Speaker 1: some other types, almost tinging on good but not quite exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but much of the debt that folks took out over

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Speaker 1: the holidays, like you said, are the bad kind. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about credit card debt. A Walt Hubs survey shows

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Speaker 1: that folks say that they overspent during the Christmas shopping season,

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Speaker 1: and roughly the same percentage of Americans confessed that that

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Speaker 1: meant taking on higher levels of debt. This is according

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Speaker 1: to a lending Tree survey, the average American has one thousand,

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Speaker 1: two nine dollars of debt weighing them down like an

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Speaker 1: anvil this time of year. From Christmas, and of course,

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Speaker 1: what is their preferred form of debts? Many of them

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Speaker 1: put those purchases on their credit card. Uh, and they're

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Speaker 1: stuck now with that debt for months to come. That

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Speaker 1: is our problem that we're trying to address. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And Matt, you might think after hearing those statistics that

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Speaker 1: you and I were anti credit card, but that is

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Speaker 1: not the case either, right, But we are against buying

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Speaker 1: stuff we like to play with fire evidently, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's definitely. It's one of those things we

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Speaker 1: have always said is a tool. And think of all

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Speaker 1: the wonderful things you can do with fire, exactly exactly,

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Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, you have a nice wood burning stove

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Speaker 1: up on the screen port in your house. It's quite lovely.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a great mood center, and it's just like

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Speaker 1: provide some warmth during these winter months. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, like, yeah, you could burn the house down

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Speaker 1: and you weren't careful. And so the same thing is

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Speaker 1: true with credit cards. Right, We're not against buying stuff

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Speaker 1: on on a credit card, but we are against buying

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Speaker 1: that same stuff on a credit card if you're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to afford to pay that bill

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Speaker 1: in full when it arrives. And so, yes, since January,

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Speaker 1: debt hangovers have become like kind of a cycle. I

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Speaker 1: would say for a lot of people Matt where they're like,

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Speaker 1: how did I end up here again? Uh, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about how we ensure that we don't end up in

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Speaker 1: the same place in early planning ahead so that we

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Speaker 1: avoid this cycle next year. So our first piece of advice,

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Speaker 1: it's going to sound maybe kind of simple, but we

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Speaker 1: would say to avoid debt in the first place. And

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Speaker 1: that could probably be the entire like that could be

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Speaker 1: the new title for this episode in the first place. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, you know you we've talked about strategies before

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Speaker 1: to get yourself out of debt. But the best way

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Speaker 1: to to dig yourself out of debt is to is

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Speaker 1: to not have any to begin with, right, to not

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Speaker 1: start in that hall. And and for most folks, the

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Speaker 1: basic way to do that is to start planning ahead

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Speaker 1: in a better way. And so, yeah, you might not

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Speaker 1: be thinking about your Christmas or holiday present for late

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Speaker 1: right now. I'm sure you're not like picking out presents

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Speaker 1: for Grandma and your sister at this moment in time

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Speaker 1: in January, but you should be baking the dollars you

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Speaker 1: want to spend into your budget and your savings plan. Now.

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Speaker 1: You should have an idea for how much you're going

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Speaker 1: to spend later on in this year, even now, and

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Speaker 1: you should be saving right now those dollars that you

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Speaker 1: eventually want to spend in this right. Yeah, and now

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Speaker 1: is the perfect time because you know roughly what you

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Speaker 1: spent this past Christmas, so you can put together an

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Speaker 1: accurate picture of of how much you will likely need

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Speaker 1: tennis months from now. And plus you've got more time

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Speaker 1: to save. You can make some of these these more

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Speaker 1: minor changes to ensure that you avoid debt if you

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Speaker 1: start soon enough. So, for instance, you know you've heard

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Speaker 1: of lay away right kind of feels like this old

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Speaker 1: school way of buying stuff, But you know that that's

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Speaker 1: when you want to buy something, you don't have the money,

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Speaker 1: but the retailer it sets the item aside and you

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Speaker 1: make payments in order to finally make the purchase take

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Speaker 1: the thing home. We've got no qualums with this approach,

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Speaker 1: but you know it sometimes comes without it fees. We

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Speaker 1: don't like that. Plus I hate the idea of a

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Speaker 1: retailer being the one who holds your money, you know,

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Speaker 1: like why let a retailer act as a savings account

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Speaker 1: when you have your own savings account. And so we're

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Speaker 1: all about the principles behind layaway, but we just want

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Speaker 1: to see you doing that yourself. Plus actual lay away.

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Speaker 1: It's it's kind of disappearing right now because of the

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Speaker 1: different buy now, pay later programs. But Joel, this this

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Speaker 1: kind of makes me think of you know, earlier this month,

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Speaker 1: we talked about some of the different money challenges that

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Speaker 1: can jump start your finances. The fifty two Weeks Savings

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Speaker 1: Challenge is made for saving for Christmas. Like literally, you

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Speaker 1: set aside a dollar every single week, which means that

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Speaker 1: even though we're a month into the year already, it's

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Speaker 1: only gonna take you like tin bucks to get caught up.

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Speaker 1: And you can join the fifty two Weeks Savings Challenge.

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Speaker 1: And what's really cool, it's a it's a dollar week,

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Speaker 1: but then it ramps up it's an extra dollar sorry exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so week one one dollar week to two dollars and

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Speaker 1: then you know, obviously of your balance gets larger and larger.

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Speaker 1: But what's super cool is that by the end of

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Speaker 1: the year, you're gonna have like around which is the

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Speaker 1: same amount of money that everyone is going in debt force.

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Speaker 1: It is I feel like this challenge, the fifty two

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Speaker 1: Weeks Savings challenge was made for saving money and setting

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Speaker 1: it aside for Christmas. So if that's something that you

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Speaker 1: missed earlier this month, will make sure to include that

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Speaker 1: sign up in the show. No, it's for this episode

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Speaker 1: up on the website at how the Money dot com.

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Speaker 1: But we would highly recommend if you have had a

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Speaker 1: problem going into debt for Christmas, that you at least

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Speaker 1: consider joining the fifty two week savings Plane. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you're like, I'm bad at planning, but I really really

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that this doesn't happen again, that

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Speaker 1: turning it into a game. It's like we talked about,

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Speaker 1: is this great way to make planning ahead a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier because you're challenging yourself and you're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna rise this challenge. I'm gonna make it happen. And

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Speaker 1: and Matt, if if people sign up for that challenge,

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Speaker 1: not only will they get helpful reminder email from us,

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Speaker 1: but also a PDF that you created to help them

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Speaker 1: track their progress and print it out physical representation of

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Speaker 1: the money progress that you're making. Is is just so

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Speaker 1: helpful in in helping you like stay at it. And

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Speaker 1: you mentioned by now pay later, which I wanted to

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Speaker 1: touch on too, because you're right, like those layaway plans

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Speaker 1: at Walmart brought him back I don't know, seven or

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Speaker 1: eight years ago and they became popular kind of again.

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Speaker 1: But now they're they're becoming less popular because by now

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Speaker 1: pay later is like the new layaway, but there are problems.

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Speaker 1: It's we don't think by now, pay later is helpful

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Speaker 1: for folks in the same way that layaway plans were

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Speaker 1: because with by now pay later plans, you're getting the

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Speaker 1: item right now, which provides that immediate gratification, whereas with layaway,

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Speaker 1: the retailers holding onto the item until you actually have

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Speaker 1: all the money in hand to to pay for it,

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Speaker 1: or even not l away, but just the preferred method

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Speaker 1: of you saving up cash to buy something yourself. As

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Speaker 1: you're saving o that money, yeah you've got that money

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Speaker 1: in the bank, but you do not yet have that item.

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Speaker 1: So there's this massive difference in how we experience the

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Speaker 1: act of buying something. If we immediately get an item

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Speaker 1: when we didn't have the money versus if the store

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Speaker 1: is holding onto it or versus waiting until we actually

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Speaker 1: have all the money to purchase the item at once,

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Speaker 1: we feel like we can move on and start buying

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Speaker 1: other stuff that we want, because heck, we're on that

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Speaker 1: payment plan. Just four or six easy payments and you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll be done paying off that Teddy Bear for our

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Speaker 1: daughter in in like, you know, four months, which sounds

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Speaker 1: crazy for smaller toys, but that's that's how far by

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Speaker 1: now pay later is going. Is You're you're stretching out.

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Speaker 1: You'll being able to stretch out almost any anything that

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Speaker 1: you want to buy now, even just an article of clothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that shift that takes place, I mean it makes me

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Speaker 1: think about going for like a run or like going

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Speaker 1: to work out or something like that. Sometimes folks will

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Speaker 1: reward themselves with like maybe a little piece of chocolate

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Speaker 1: after they get back from their run. Right, it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like saying, Okay, I want to give myself the

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Speaker 1: chocolate now, and then after that then I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go for a run. Like no, what's the point, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't actually earned the thing yet, I think

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Speaker 1: you have a much less chance of actually doing the

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Speaker 1: hard thing as opposed to immediately gratifying yourself with the easy, fun,

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Speaker 1: delicious thing. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And and it seems

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Speaker 1: like because we're we're putting the purchase down into bite

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Speaker 1: size payment chunks that we can actually afford things that

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Speaker 1: that ultimately we really can't afford, and and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be paying for the item for months to come.

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Speaker 1: And it just it's psychologically makes it so much easier

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Speaker 1: to buy stuff that we we don't need or that

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Speaker 1: we don't have the money to buy, which increases the

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Speaker 1: likelihood that we're gonna find ourselves back in this debt hole.

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Speaker 1: So I think by now pay later is it seems

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Speaker 1: like a solution to people where they can get the

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Speaker 1: things that they want without taking on debt, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you're just doing an installment plan instead of taking put

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Speaker 1: it on the credit card. But but ultimately it's it's

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Speaker 1: having a very similar effect on your budget. Yeah. Well

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Speaker 1: that also assumes that you make your payments on time.

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Speaker 1: You're assuming the best case scenario. But if let's say

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Speaker 1: you hit a little rough patch and you're not able

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Speaker 1: to make that payment, well that's when you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: hit with those late fees. And that's I mean, you

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Speaker 1: call it what you want, you call a late fee,

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Speaker 1: you call it interest payments. You are still paying more

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Speaker 1: for an item because you're using leverage to to buy

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Speaker 1: things that you can't afford in the here and now.

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna give some more practical tips for keeping

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Speaker 1: folks out of debts, and we'll get to those after

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Speaker 1: this break. All right, Matt, we're back. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: how to keep yourself out of debts, right and you know,

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Speaker 1: let's let's talk about why for a second. And Um,

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Speaker 1: that might sound self explanatory, but one of the things

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Speaker 1: we want to point out, we want to make sure

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Speaker 1: you hear, is that you know, the biggest problem with

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Speaker 1: debt isn't necessarily the fact that you want new stuff.

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Speaker 1: Matt and I were not against buying new things on occasion.

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Speaker 1: We get the new items occasionally, yes, and we're human.

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Speaker 1: I talked to you in passing about the home rento

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Speaker 1: that I'm doing at our house right now. We're doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of work and it involves buying a lot

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Speaker 1: of new stuff and it's gonna get used. You get

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Speaker 1: new tile exactly. You didn't get used would although I

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Speaker 1: thought about getting used out but I did not. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's it's one of those things where or

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Speaker 1: at least it's like vintage tile at reclaimed would oftentimes

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Speaker 1: that's all even actually more expensive than getting even new

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Speaker 1: the new stuff. True, it's like, we don't wanna pretend

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Speaker 1: that we don't buy new stuff. And and and we have

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Speaker 1: friends in this space, friends we've had on the show

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Speaker 1: who are almost like against buying new stuff at all,

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Speaker 1: and they make that a pattern of their lives to

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Speaker 1: encourage people not to buy new things, and they don't

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Speaker 1: do it themselves. And we think that's admirable, but that's

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Speaker 1: not the stance that we take. And so we just

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Speaker 1: we don't want to suggest that you shouldn't be buying

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Speaker 1: new things, but we do want to suggest and uh

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Speaker 1: strongly suggest that you shouldn't be paying interest in order

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Speaker 1: to finance the new stuff. That's what we dislike. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not being able to pay for it in full means

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Speaker 1: that you're paying more for everything that you're buying. And

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Speaker 1: the average person Matt has a revolving credit card balance

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Speaker 1: of close to six thousand dollars, which means not only

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Speaker 1: do they have that like credit card debt hangover right

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Speaker 1: now in January, but at the same time they're they're

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Speaker 1: paying roughly a thousand dollars in interest to the credit

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Speaker 1: card companies every single year, and you know, that's a

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Speaker 1: huge portion of your annual income going to the credit

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Speaker 1: card companies because you were not able to rain in

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Speaker 1: some of that spending, right, And so yeah, just think

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Speaker 1: of all the other good that that money could be

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Speaker 1: doing for you, not for the visa or master card.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, we would say utilizing debt for everyday

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Speaker 1: purchases means that you're overpaying for everything. Everything that if

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Speaker 1: it's sixty bucks, it turns out it actually costs you

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Speaker 1: seventy two dollars, right, everything is costing you more, that's right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And remember too that the concept of interest, like that

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Speaker 1: concept right there, like that isn't inherently evil either. You

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Speaker 1: just want to make sure that you are on the

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Speaker 1: receiving end of interest, not on the paying end. We've

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Speaker 1: used this analogy before, but interest is kind of like

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Speaker 1: an escalator, right, and so when you're walking up the

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Speaker 1: side that is going up like a normal human being,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get to that next floor really quickly.

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Speaker 1: Like that is what happens when you invest your money

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Speaker 1: and you've got interest working for you. But if you're

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Speaker 1: going against the flow, you've got the steps coming at

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Speaker 1: you rather than with you. It sounds like a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. If you're like a middle schooler, then it's

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Speaker 1: gonna take so much more effort. And that is what

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Speaker 1: it's like to have consumer debt. That's a great way

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Speaker 1: to think about interest. You what it's working for you,

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Speaker 1: not against Yeah, and this is not an episode about investing,

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Speaker 1: but we talked about that enough and how that is

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Speaker 1: giving you the opposite effect over time, right that that

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Speaker 1: your money is working for you, whereas you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're in debt, uh, the lack of money is working

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Speaker 1: against you. Now that we're planning ahead, though, in order

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Speaker 1: to attempt to avoid debt in the future, it's also

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Speaker 1: important to evaluate what lad you into debt in the

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Speaker 1: first place. So we'd say that's another really important step

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Speaker 1: in making sure that you don't find yourself ground like

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Speaker 1: groundhog Day, you know, in the same position every single year.

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Speaker 1: And so, yeah, there are probably some underlying behaviors that

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Speaker 1: you're not incredibly aware of that you need to kind

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Speaker 1: of come to grips with, Like was it something random

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Speaker 1: like a medical bill from an accident that was a

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Speaker 1: one time thing, Because that's that's a different thing that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about when it comes to the debt load

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Speaker 1: that you have in your life. If so, then a

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Speaker 1: simple solution is to have more cash in savings. You

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Speaker 1: probably know what we're gonna say here, but you need

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Speaker 1: an emergency fund, right, and so yeah, for for those

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Speaker 1: that margin, those things you can't plan for, you've gotta

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Speaker 1: have the margin exactly, and so yeah, it's it's obviously

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Speaker 1: it's way easier to not go into debt if you've

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Speaker 1: got cash money on hand in your account. And the

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Speaker 1: number we think you should be working towards as a

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Speaker 1: minimum threshold of savings is two thousand, four hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty seven dollars. That's the number we always share because

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Speaker 1: that is a statistic that economists have found to be

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Speaker 1: helpful for the majority of people. And hopefully hopefully that

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Speaker 1: I fund grows even bigger. Matt like more people should

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Speaker 1: have more money than that in savings, but getting at

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Speaker 1: least to that buffer point is crucial when it comes

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Speaker 1: to staying out of debt in the future. That's right,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, with inflation, it is probably more than two

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Speaker 1: four six seven. That's probably yeah, that's true. It's probably

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Speaker 1: now it's like or something. Yeah, But until we get

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Speaker 1: that new updated number, we're holding to the two four

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Speaker 1: six seven number. But having savings on hand, this provides

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Speaker 1: an incredibly tangible benefit. There are real dollars there to

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Speaker 1: help you out in case you need them. But it

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Speaker 1: also has like some of these uh psychle logical benefits

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Speaker 1: and ramifications as well. You know, just knowing that you

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Speaker 1: have money on hand to tackle any emergency that might

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Speaker 1: come along, it's going to diminish the stress that you

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Speaker 1: feel when you think about your finances. Just knowing that

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Speaker 1: you've got money to cover an unexpected expense or even

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Speaker 1: a last minute gift for a friend that slipped your mind.

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Speaker 1: It's just relaxing in a really helpful way to know

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Speaker 1: that you do have that margin, you have that money

429
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 1: set aside. It's not just about physically covering the cost

430
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: of something, but just the mental benefit that it can

431
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 1: provide as well. Yeah, and knowing how you got into

432
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,199
Speaker 1: trouble in the first place just helps you know how

433
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: to get out right. If you know that you took

434
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: this path down into this pit in the Grand Cany

435
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, how do I get out of here?

436
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,399
Speaker 1: When you're when you're on a hike, when you can

437
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: go up the way you came. But if you're if

438
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: you kind of lost your positioning and you're trying to

439
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 1: figure out how to get back up, you might take

440
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 1: a more treacherous path or something, right, And so we

441
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: want you to know how you got into it in

442
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 1: the first place. If it was just slow and steady

443
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: spend this drip drip drip, where you were just spending

444
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,439
Speaker 1: more than you made every single month, that's a different

445
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: story and that needs to be addressed a little bit

446
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 1: differently than something like a one time medical bill, right,

447
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: and and so yeah, that that's when you you start

448
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: to evaluate, you realize maybe it was more than than

449
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: a random one off event. And so yeah, in this case, uh,

450
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: if it is that drip drip drip, what we want

451
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: a huge component of avoiding debt is to tamp down

452
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 1: lifestyle inflation, because the less of stuff that you're jonesing

453
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 1: to buy, the more intact your finances are going to be.

454
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: You'll be less inclined to take on debt if you

455
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: have what Matt and I like to call lower expectations.

456
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: And it's it's one of those things that sounds a

457
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: little weird, to lower your expectations. Who tells people that, well, yeah,

458
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: nobody is you and I do? We do, and it's

459
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: it's certainly counter to the consumption based economy we live in,

460
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: but there's real power in having lower expectations. For instance,

461
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: if you work out, let's say, three times a week,

462
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: but your expectation to work out is only twice a week,

463
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: you are going to be so happy because you are

464
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: an overachiever crushing it. But if you're expecting to work

465
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: out five days a week, you're probably not going to

466
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: be happy with just getting you know, on your buy

467
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: here to the gym three times. And so lifestyle inflation

468
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: is similar. If we can change our expectations, we'll find

469
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: that we can easily be happier with less. And when

470
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: we're happier with less, that makes it far less painful

471
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: to say no, which helps to keep us out of debt. Yeah,

472
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, the fact is too that that someone might

473
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: have champagne taste on a beer budget. And yeah, the

474
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: I like expensive stuff, right, some people? What can I say?

475
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: Some people do they raise that way or they just

476
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: maybe even were raised in like a house where fancy

477
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: stuff was like completely ignored, and so they were like, no, no,

478
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: I want my portion of fancy stuff now. But they

479
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 1: can't actually afford it, and so the psychological shift is

480
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: really the only remedy in that case. Right, Um, And

481
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: you know we talked about sometimes like intentionally taking on hardship,

482
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, there are a lot of stoic Yes, yeah, exactly.

483
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's certainly a philosophy of the stoics is

484
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: to intentionally do hard things to build your resilience levels.

485
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: So there are certain things we would never ask people

486
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: to do just the same of building resilience. We're not

487
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: necessarily stoics, but there are things that we believe that

488
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: we could do to better ourselves and certainly better our

489
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 1: our our financial position. Yeah, initiating a certain amount of

490
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: hardship on purpose can be a good thing, and not

491
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 1: only just from your savings habit now staying out of debt,

492
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: but also just from you know, an emotional psychological standpoint.

493
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: And we would say, like intentionally stepping out of your

494
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: comfort zone that can allow you to completely rethink an

495
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: issue that maybe you used to think was important but

496
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: now it kind of isn't any more. And so yeah,

497
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: during a moment of clarity where you're intentionally doing something

498
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: more difficult, like a spending challenge or a Savings challenge.

499
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: Like we've talked about different things that you can implement

500
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: into your life to kind of make it a little

501
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: more make the road a little more difficult for a

502
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: shorter period of time. It can allow you to adopt

503
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: a healthier perspective moving forward. And so, yeah, putting yourself

504
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: in some of those harder situations on purpose helps to

505
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: build some of that resiliency that we think is important

506
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: to help keep you out of debt in the future too.

507
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, as you're talking about the challenges,

508
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 1: it makes me think of the no spend challenge because

509
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: for some people that is going to be a form

510
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: of self deprivation, right to say I am not going

511
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: to spend in this particular category for the rest of

512
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: the year. And again we'll make sure to link to

513
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: the episode where we talked about some of the different challenges,

514
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: but those will all be available to sign up for

515
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: in our show notes. But you know, like it, it

516
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: also does make me think of some of these different

517
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 1: practices I've heard of. I've heard of folks who will

518
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: like only eat beans and rice for an entire week,

519
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: and it's not like go on some special diet. They're

520
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: just literally doing that in order for them to appreciate

521
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: the food that they normally eat that they do have

522
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: access to the same thing I actually need somebody in

523
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: college you did this, uh, And he would sleep on

524
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: a sleeping bag on the floor in order to appreciate

525
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: his bed. In his case, he was getting ready to

526
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: go camping, like he would do it, paring yourself for

527
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: for that. Eventually, when he went camping, he would enjoy

528
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: it because it was something he was more used to.

529
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: But again, we're not necessarily recommending you go that far,

530
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: but finding some small ways to introduce some of these

531
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: challenges I think can be a good way for us

532
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: to kind of take the like stoicism. Lie. Yeah, And

533
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: I think there was something the other day, I don't

534
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: remember what it was where Emily and I were talking

535
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: and it was something really special that we got to

536
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: do and we just had a lot of fun. And

537
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: I was like, man, you know some people do this

538
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: almost every day like that, or I think it was

539
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: a special meal that we shared, and I was like,

540
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: some people, I don't know that. I see they're eating

541
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: like this on the rag. How can you appreciate it

542
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: if you're doing it all the time? And I was

543
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: just so appreciative that we got to have that experience,

544
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: and I think it makes it even more valuable when

545
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: it's not something that's a constant in your life. But

546
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: at the same time, you have to everyone has to

547
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 1: identify their craft beer equivalent exactly. That's what we're always

548
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: trying to strike that balance, right exactly. Another helpful practical

549
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: way to stay out of debt that we wanted to

550
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: mention too is to get rid of some of the

551
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: different triggers that cause you to spend. We want you

552
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: to avoid temptation in the first place, because if you

553
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: can avoid that temptation in the first place, that might

554
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: also allow you to avoid debts to begin with. So,

555
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: for instance, it's easier to say no to eating ice

556
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: cream if you don't have any ice cream in the freezer. Right,

557
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot harder if you have to

558
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: resist it when it's just ten feet away behind the

559
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: doors of your freezer. Have the willpower amount that's needed

560
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: to avoid it, just like it just went up, vastly

561
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: stronger amounts of willpower required. That's why we have the

562
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: old adage of never going grocery shopping while you're hungry.

563
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: But for general spending, this probably means using different social

564
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: media platforms like Instagram or TikTok less often maybe not

565
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: even at all, if that's the place that consistently gets

566
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: you to spend. I say this from personal experience, but

567
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: the different algorithms and ads that pop up. Man on Instagram,

568
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: they've gotten so good, And I swear I searched for

569
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: one thing, and I try to do some price comparing online,

570
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: and then next time I hop on Instagram, you know,

571
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: literally every other ad that I'm fed, it's just like

572
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: five versions of that exact item that I'm looking. I

573
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: think Instagram knows you better than your best friend. Man,

574
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: sorry I don't know you as well. That's probably right.

575
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: But something else you might need to unsubscribe from your

576
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: favorite retailer. You know, the emails at least send out

577
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: where they're giving you the different discounts and what new

578
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: items they have in stock. We want you to determine

579
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: where temptation sets in for you and actively work to

580
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: avoid those situations moving forward. But we've got several other

581
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: practical steps that we're gonna recommend for you to consider

582
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: in your life. And we're also going to talk about

583
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: shifting debt around whether that makes sense for you or not.

584
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that right after this break.

585
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: We'll back. We're still talking about staying out of debts,

586
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: and one of the things we talked about is that

587
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: part of the problem is that people are putting purchases

588
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: on credit cards. And again we want to reiterate we're

589
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: not against credit cards. We are heavy users have credit

590
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: cards whose pay the bill off on time and in

591
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: full every month. But one thing that might need to

592
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: happen for some people who have a tough time actually

593
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: using credit cards and using them well, who say, actually,

594
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: this tool in my hands is an instrument of of

595
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: evil for my finances, then cash might be something that

596
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: they need to consider. And so I want to point

597
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: out something that you said that you said this tool

598
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: is an instrument for evil. You didn't say that it's

599
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: an evil instrument, right, And that's what we're saying here.

600
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: It's like it's being able to realize that you're not

601
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: able to use it effectively, that you are evil. It's

602
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: not the tool. It's like it's like a really sharp knife, right,

603
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: Like used effectively, you want a really sharp knife. I

604
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: think a lot of chefs say that like the worst

605
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: accidents that happened in the kitchen, they happened with a

606
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: dull knife because you're not able to use it properly.

607
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: But guess what, you can also cut off the tip

608
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: of a finger with a really sharp knife too, so

609
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: you do need to be careful. It's also kind of

610
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: like the ring in Froto's hands versus in Gollum's hands.

611
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: And you know, there's there's a clear winner that you

612
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: want that that he can use the tool effectively. The

613
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: other guy is just gonna worship it, right, But eventually

614
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: Frodo also knew that he had to get rid of

615
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: the rings. It was also it was only destroyed by

616
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: by an accident, so that's an imperfect analogy. But speaking

617
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: of severed fingers, all right, so this is cash is

618
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: not our preferred method to buy things, Like we said,

619
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: we use credit cards, but yeah, if you have a

620
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: hard time not going overboard, then yeah, using cash is

621
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: going to be helpful. And if you want to continue

622
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: to use plastic because of the rewards and you think

623
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: that you can do better, we would say make a

624
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: point to write down every purchase that you make when

625
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: you make them, so kind of like a ledger on

626
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: a checkbook, the old school thing, but make your own

627
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: and carry it around with you wherever you go, because

628
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: keeping track of every expense and you know the current

629
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: balance that's left in your account, even though it's not

630
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: actively coming out of your account, is gonna help ensure

631
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: that you're not spending more than you have. So we'd

632
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: say no yourself. If you can't use a credit card responsibly,

633
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: don't do it um. And then if you're somewhere in between,

634
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: you're like, I think I can then give this a shot.

635
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: Or you're tracking your spending as you go, because that

636
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: can help you stay out of that that's right. But

637
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: if you can't, you know, avoid it altogether because that

638
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, that seven fifty dollar sign a bonus, it's

639
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: not gonna be worth it if you're going to overspend

640
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: from now until the end of time. But like you said,

641
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: if you are using your credit card wisely for the

642
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: most part, but maybe you just need a little bit

643
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: more accountability, it's pretty easy to turn on notifications where

644
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: you get alerted or you know, you get a little

645
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: text message every time that card is used. And so

646
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: I think this could be a really handy uh method

647
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: if you have combined finances with your partner. But this

648
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: could even be something that you implement with a money

649
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: accountability partner, someone you know, who you trust, who is

650
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: willing to help coach you a little bit. Uh. And

651
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: the thing is too, this can go both ways. It

652
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: can be a reciprocal relationship. If you have found somebody

653
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: who shares the you know, similar goals as you, who

654
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: has shared interests, who is also frugal, this canna be

655
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a practice that goes both ways. Like it makes me

656
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: think back like back in the Dagil especially if you

657
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: know I was married, you had just gotten married, um

658
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: to Emily. But if you were single, and if I

659
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: was single, I could totally you know, when we first

660
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: met in More Buds, I could totally see us having

661
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: been like financial accountability partners to a certain extent because

662
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, we've shared recently during our

663
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: money origin stories how like we were getting into real

664
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: estate and to kind of have that accountability of like, hey,

665
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: do you think that's really gonna be worth it? Or

666
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: are you gonna put that money towards a down payment

667
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: for that rental property that you've been talking about. That's

668
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: the kind of give and take that's the kind of

669
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: behavior and like camaraderie honestly that we're hoping that you

670
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: can start implementing in your life. Yeah, And I think

671
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot to be said for expertise and

672
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: having being in a relationship with someone who's more knowledgeable

673
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: than you are, some something like a mentor, right, a

674
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: money mentor or something like that. But I think there's

675
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: a heck of a lot to be said for doing

676
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: it simultaneously with someone that you're close with, even if

677
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: they don't know a whole lot more than you, because

678
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: you can spur each other on. And sometimes it is

679
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: it's like you don't necessarily need some Arnold Schwarzenegger looking, uh,

680
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: super fit person to help you work out. It could

681
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: just be a friend who's willing to show up at

682
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: the same time as you, and that can be also

683
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: wants to work out because he deals with the same struggles.

684
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: That can be just as effective, I think as hiring

685
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: some sort of expensive personal trainer, totally and honestly to

686
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: while we're talking about credit cards, it also makes me

687
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: think about freezing your credit you know, uh, Well, we're

688
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: talking about different things that you can implement, different layers

689
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: of accountability, different barriers that you can erect that can

690
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: keep you from accessing maybe more credit than you can handle. Uh.

691
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Even though yes, you can go in there and unfreeze

692
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: it and then apply to that credit card, you still

693
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: have the shame of being like, am I really going

694
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: to go in there and unfreeze my credit? When I'm

695
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: going back to the A T M at the casino? Like?

696
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: Am I actually gonna do that? The walk of shape? Yeah, Uh,

697
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: it's anything you can implement in your life like that

698
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: that causes you to think twice about it. That's what

699
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: we want you to consider. Yes, all right, Matt. Another

700
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 1: thing that I think is really helpful for a lot

701
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: of people when it comes to staying out of that

702
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: is to create lists and then stick to them. Because

703
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: let's say, yeah, you're grocery shopping, and it's so easy

704
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: if you don't have a list to just toss random

705
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: things in your card, like a six dollar box of

706
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: Lucky Charms. Why not, Like, might as well throw in

707
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: some bags of Doritos while I'm at it, And so yeah,

708
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: if you don't have to throw in the towel, like

709
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: nothing matters anymore. I'm getting all the junks I guess

710
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: I'll get the hogandas too. I mean, there's all sorts

711
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: of things if you don't have a list that's gonna

712
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: that are gonna end up in your basket and at

713
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: the end you're gonna be like, why was that bill

714
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: so high? And how to them? I don't have anything

715
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: to cook for dinner this week, still even after going

716
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: on that grocery store run. And so yeah, I think

717
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: that list is a full way to stay focused on

718
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: the task at hand. Not only do they help you

719
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: put blinders on, but they're also gonna to make sure

720
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: that you get everything you need and then avoid another

721
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: trip back to the store, which stinks. And while grocery

722
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: shopping is a meaningful part of your monthly budget, like

723
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: the stakes are a little bit lower than they are

724
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: maybe in other phases of life. But I think to

725
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: drive this point at home, Matt, there's the example of

726
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: airline safety, and case after case when it comes to

727
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: airline safety, it demonstrates that accidents on airplanes are almost

728
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: always come from the pilot or the flight crew skipping

729
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: a pre flight checklist. It's one of those things where

730
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: they're like, I know this by heart. I don't know

731
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: how to go to the checklist and then ultimately what

732
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: ends up happening is they miss one or two of

733
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: those important items and then disaster strikes. Right, And so

734
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: we would say that lists are helpful in almost every

735
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: sphere of life, and so you should start creating lists

736
00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: more frequently for grocery shopping, for your needs, for your kids,

737
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: even like whatever it is, have a list set out

738
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: when you're shopping for clothes, like what do you need

739
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: so you don't end up buying random pairs of pants

740
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: that aren't needed. Um, there are all sorts of ways

741
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: to implement lists into your life so that you avoid

742
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: buying more than you need and going into more debt.

743
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: That's right. You can go with pin and paper, but

744
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: you can just I mean, having digital lists on our

745
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: phones is such an incredible help. I mean, Kate and

746
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: we use the basic Apple Reminder's app when it comes to,

747
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, putting things on the grocery list that we need.

748
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: But you can like to do isst any do? Like

749
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: these are great applications that can allow you to stay focused,

750
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: to help you to keep the blinders on when it

751
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: comes to staying on task, and it could also be

752
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: helpful to oper grocery pickup instead. You know what we're

753
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: talking about food here, but when you do grocery pickup,

754
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: but it helps you to avoid uh, not only the

755
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: delivery fees, but this also means that you don't have

756
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: to set foot inside the store if you have a

757
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: tough time not going overboard when you go shopping in person. Target,

758
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: they are totally free. In Kroger and Walmart are both

759
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: free with a thirty five dollar minimum order, which isn't

760
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: hard to do these days, and Grated. You know, these

761
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: grocery stores aren't going to be as affordable as Aldi

762
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: or Costco, our favorites. But if going with pick up

763
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: at a slightly more expensive store keeps you from spending

764
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: a ton in person at a more affordable store, we'll

765
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: pick up is going to win every single time. Yeah,

766
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: it's if you're going to go into Aldi and buy

767
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: five bags of those Clancys uh Torito rip offs, which,

768
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: by the way, people everybody disagree with me on that.

769
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: And you know what, the last time I had them right,

770
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: I think they're right. Honestly, I was terrible. I was like,

771
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: they're much worse. To remember that you were saying that

772
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: they're like pretty good and we we we had like

773
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: listeners right in they're like, oh no, no, no no, no, no,

774
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: what's wrong with actually way like Matt, we're with you

775
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: the knockoff and I gotta say I'm with you two.

776
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: I regret my decision to say that they were a

777
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: worth worthy food item. They're not. You can go ahead

778
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: and pick up a six pack of Aldi beer while

779
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: you're eating your clain seas. You can ed your Clancys

780
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: beer in your They have baked barbecue chips, which are

781
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: actually pretty good, though are they I don't know if

782
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: they're Clancys brand or something else, but um, whatever, the

783
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: baked barbecue chips they're they're pretty good. Just avoid the

784
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: Dritto dot com. Yes, actually do so. Sorry about that

785
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: for advice earlier. But let's talk about discipline to Matt,

786
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: because that's that's a part of the equation, right you

787
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: have to I'm guessing there are some folks who are

788
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: listening right now and they're saying, yeah, I track my

789
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: spending and I create lists. That stuff's easy. Um, but

790
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: just because those are hard, tangible actions that we can take,

791
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily make the getting to where we want

792
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: to go easy. It doesn't mean the road is isn't hard.

793
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: And so going back to physical fitness, right like, if

794
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: you have a desire to eat more veggies um and

795
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: to go on more runs, well, there are clear tangible

796
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: steps you can take if you're trying to live a

797
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: healthier life. It doesn't mean that actually living a healthier

798
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: life is easy. It might be simple, like the steps

799
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: might not be terribly difficult, but it doesn't mean it's easy.

800
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: And so the same thing is true with our finances,

801
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: right like simply put, spend less money than you make

802
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: and invest the rest. That's how you build wealth. Like

803
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: how in the world is there a personal finance podcast

804
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: that has almost five episodes, like it's really it's it's

805
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: not rockets. Formula is pretty simple. But again, there's a

806
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: big difference between something being simple and something being easy. Yes,

807
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: because it takes patients. As you work and you build

808
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: up the discipline in your financial life. We would say,

809
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: don't expect to perfectly turn your spending around on day

810
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: one or even on day thirty. Progress is slower than

811
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: we want it to be. It's gonna take some time,

812
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: and so don't be hard on yourself when you make

813
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: a mistake. Don't let that be the reason that you

814
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: get off the train altogether, and you're like, screw it,

815
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like go back to the debt cycle

816
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: that that I've been in. But at the same time

817
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: realize that discipline is is a real part of the

818
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: equation to staying out of debt. That's right. Let's make

819
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: another observation about debt real quick. Um, As we said,

820
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: some forms of debt are going to be worse than others.

821
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: A paid a loan right like like that comes with

822
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: interest rates and the hundreds of percentage points if you

823
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: were to annualize it, but your mortgage it might only

824
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,959
Speaker 1: have a rate of two point seven, most likely sub

825
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: three on a third of your mortgage. There's just this

826
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: massive gap like the size of Russia here. Uh. Like

827
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: these things honestly, like they're more dissimilar than they are similar. Uh.

828
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: And so one thing you should do is see if

829
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: you can aim to make your current debt look better.

830
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: The ultimate goal is to pay off those debts, for sure,

831
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: but there are ways to make your debt less heinous

832
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: while you're working towards that goal. Balance transfer offers are

833
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: one excellent way to do this. We have an article

834
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: up on the website that will actually link to in

835
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: our show notes for this episode that will explain how

836
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: balance transfers work if you've not given one of those

837
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: a shot, as well as some of the cars that

838
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: we recommend. You can also negotiate your debt if it's

839
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: getting overwhelming. Know that you are not stuck in this

840
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: rut of paying exactly what it is that you are

841
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: entitled to pay. Know that you like there is some

842
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 1: local room if you can negotiate with a credit card. Yeah,

843
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a good point. Mat. I

844
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: think there are ways to make bad debt look not

845
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: as bad by luring the a p R of that debt.

846
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, you mentioned a couple of going the APR,

847
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: negotiening of the terms of an interest free period perhaps,

848
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: and maybe you don't even have to negotiate, like you said,

849
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: just transfer that batt it's to another card like are

850
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: a readily available zero percent interest rate for eighteen months,

851
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: and then while you're paying lesson interest, figure out find

852
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: find a way to make sure that that card is

853
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: paid off inside those eighteen months, so you're avoiding interest altogether. Um,

854
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think, like you said, there are

855
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: ways that you can d I Y. This one thing

856
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: that we don't ever want folks to do. Those to

857
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: listen to people who want to consolidate your debt for you.

858
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: Those are that's a pitfall and that will actually keep

859
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: you in debt longer. That's not gonna help you stay

860
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: out of debt. Uh. These companies often charge up front

861
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: fees and they make these lofty promises, but they almost

862
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: never help in the ways that they're promising too. So, yeah,

863
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: we just make sure you avoid those companies they advertise

864
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: on the internet. Avoid them like the plague. They often

865
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: like leave people in just a much worse financial position.

866
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: And so if you need actual help, the best place

867
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: to turn is to nonprofit companies that have relationships with

868
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: the credit card companies, with the companies that you might

869
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: be in debt to who can actually help. They can

870
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: help reach ructure your debt potentially, uh and help you

871
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: come up with a payment plan that's actually gonna work.

872
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: And so Money Management International is one of our favorites.

873
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: NFCC dot org is another great place to turn. Those

874
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: are two nonprofits that provide a whole lot of free

875
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: help for people that continue to struggle with that. Yeah,

876
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: that's right, So we're talking mostly about staying out of debt,

877
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: but we at least stuck in a little bit of

878
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: getting out of debts talk here, uh and Joel, one

879
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: other thing we wanted to mention, what about other like

880
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: outside of the box options to avoid debt in the

881
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: first place, Because you know, someone who's listening, they might

882
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: say something like, well, you know, to avoid taking them

883
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: more debt, I'm just gonna snack some money from my

884
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: retirement funds. That's better than putting it on the credit card. Right. Well,

885
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: they're both awful, not quite because you know, it's not

886
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: that there aren't any instances we're taking money from a

887
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: retirement account is the best route, but they are few

888
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: and far between. Depending on what type of account you

889
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: pull that money from and what mechanism you use to

890
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: get it, you might owe taxes plus that additional ten

891
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: percent penalty oftentimes and us Now that's money that is

892
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: not invested. That's money that originally, at some point you

893
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: had sacrificed and you had denied yourself, but instead now

894
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: you're using the money to fund some purchases, and instead

895
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 1: we want you to keep that money invested in your

896
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: different retirement accounts. Please do not touch that money. Yeah,

897
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: that can be tempting. It's like Matt and Joel said

898
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: that I should stay out of debt, and so the

899
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: best way to do this is take cash that I

900
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: have on hand out of my retirement account. You think

901
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: that's cash on hand, but it's not that that should

902
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: be like considered luck box money. And so, yeah, you

903
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: want to do all of these other things. You don't

904
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: want to be tempted to reach into that that bucket

905
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: that's for your future starting yanking money out of there, because,

906
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, that is going to have devastating

907
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: consequences for financial you ten years down the road. So yeah,

908
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: hopefully these were some helpful thoughts on how to keep

909
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: yourself out of debt, because we don't want to just

910
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: see people climb out. We want to see people never

911
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: not be able to pay that credit card bill in

912
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: full ever. Again, Like, that's what we want that that

913
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: never even have to cross your radar, to have enough

914
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: money saved built up to where debt basically becomes a

915
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: foreign concept in your life. That's that's what we want

916
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: to see for you. That's right, ma, Let's go ahead

917
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: and shift gears and go back to the beer that

918
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: you and I enjoyed during this episode. Um, we had

919
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: an Empress Rising, which is a bourbon barrel imperial stout

920
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: by Birds Fly South up there in Greenville, South Carolina.

921
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on this beer? Okay, so I've

922
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: had a few beers from Birds Fly South, and I

923
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: feel like I'm used to their more earthy beer styles.

924
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: They've got some good farmhouse farmhouse says on stuff like that,

925
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: and I like everything I've had from them and that

926
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: that those are styles that I really enjoy and appreciate.

927
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had a stout from them,

928
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: and this how this stout had like some funkiness to it,

929
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: which I wasn't expecting. Um, it's not making my top

930
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: ten list, but I feel like I can see what

931
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: they were going for. It's just to me, the flavor

932
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: profile is it's like there's one cylinder missing out of

933
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: a six cylinder inchin or something. I feel like there's

934
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: just something slightly off. It's just not probably doing it

935
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: for me. Although I find it interesting and I think,

936
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: you know, they usually make great beers, this is just

937
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: not the best one I've had from them. Yeah, this

938
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: is specifically a a mole style, and so I do

939
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, earlier on Monday, we had a beer that

940
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: was that was a hatch chili screen hatch, and we're

941
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: talking about having beers with with more peppers in it,

942
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: and so I appreciate that this has some of that

943
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: going on. It's a mole style, so it's got some heat.

944
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: You can taste the you know, the different Chipotle peppers.

945
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: They've got some other peppers that are listed out here.

946
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: But you mentioned that you feel like it's missing a cylinder.

947
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that there's an extra cylinder thrown then

948
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: thrown in there, like it's like a four cylinder and

949
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 1: somehow they fit a fifth. Because the acidity of this beer,

950
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: like it wasn't noted anywhere on the can, but to me,

951
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: like that's what really stands out. It's it's almost part

952
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: which makes me wonder if this beer is slightly off

953
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: or if maybe the pH wasn't exactly where they had

954
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: intended it, because it doesn't say anything on this can

955
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: about this kind of being more of a tart stout,

956
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: and typically that's not a style that brewers are going for.

957
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: But that being said, even if this is this beer

958
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: is off, I still enjoyed it. It was still all

959
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: those different flavors they had going on, that higher acidity.

960
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear me talking about acid all the

961
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: time on the on the podcast with when it comes

962
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: to my beers. But I really like having a beer

963
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: that's higher in a cidity. It's just that maybe the

964
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: flavors aren't totally on, Like it's a well balanced beer,

965
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: but maybe the actual specific flavors might be off. I'm

966
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: not I'm not totally sure. We haven't had a ton

967
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: of off beers, and so I feel like I need

968
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: to need to take a course and like this is

969
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: what you need to look for tastes, you know, Okay,

970
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: so specifically, I know one of the things that you

971
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: look for in a bad beer is if it tastes

972
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: like butter. So I think maybe like an I P

973
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: A S or maybe I can't remember specifically what styles.

974
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: Isn't that what Harry Potter drinks. It's true, but Harry

975
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: Potter likes bad beer, that's true. Evidently he likes beer

976
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: that has like this chemical But if it tastes like

977
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: if you are drinking a beer and it tastes like

978
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: butter popcorn and it's not supposed to. That is a

979
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: clear sign of a beer that is off. When it

980
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: comes to this one, I'm not totally sure. So that's

981
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: kind of like there's a big question mark on this beer.

982
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: But I still enjoyed it. Well, good times. They'll tell

983
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: you that a medical the listeners. When I was there

984
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: at the brewer, you did. Yeah, So it's always fun.

985
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: By the way, if anybody like just come up and

986
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: say hi, we love just meeting people, especially if we're

987
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: at a brewery. I mean, that's like, that's how they

988
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: know it's us exactly. That's gonna be it for this episode. Listeners.

989
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: You can find show notes up on the website, and

990
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: how It's Money dot Com will make sure to link

991
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: to any of the different resources that we may have

992
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: mentioned during this episode, yes, including some of those money challenges.

993
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: If you have not joined, please do sign up for that.

994
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: It's completely free, we won't spam you, and hopefully it'll

995
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: help you achieve some of those money goals, including staying

996
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: out of debts. Right all right, Matt, Until next time,

997
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,