WEBVTT - Craig Hodges 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:05.760 Welcome to The No Sports Report, a production of I 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:14.200 Heart Radio Entree Fork Media. My name is Jensen carp 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:16.520 and I'm as sports fan and I miss watching it. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.520 But over the past few weeks doing this podcast, I've 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.560 realized maybe sports is just a conduit from normalcy. Maybe 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.200 I missed normalcy, and I really all of us think 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.480 sports can help get us there again. And the truth 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.280 is it can, maybe even in more ways than you think, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.559 And even if we're off the field just trying to rebuild, 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.720 so as we face unprecedented times in this country, I 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.920 continue to talk to athletes and sports industry professionals about 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.159 what they're doing right now, hoping to figure out if 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.239 famous competing as much as I miss watching it. This 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:50.760 is the No Sports Report. Craig Hodges played in the 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.080 NBA for ten seasons and is considered one of the 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.560 greatest three point shooters of all time. He's one of 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.080 only two players who win three consecutive three point contest 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.400 during All Star Weekend. The other is Larry Bird. Hodges 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.720 also holds the record for the most consecutive shots made 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.360 in the contest with nineteen, and is tied for most 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.560 points scored in a single round at He won two 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.240 NBA championships with the early nineties Bulls alongside Michael Jordan 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.679 and Scottie Pippen and was an instant offensive threat, But 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.680 it was the threat of Craig off the court as 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.760 a political activist that seemed to outshine his undeniable stats. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.280 When the team visited the White House to celebrate their 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.640 NBA championship, his decision to wear a daishiki and attempt 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.000 to get a letter to President Bush found him labeled 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.120 as militant and a problem within the NBA. He questioned 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.080 black representation in the league and had revolutionary ideas for 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.520 African American players to shine a light on issues within 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.480 the black community. A year later, his time in Chicago 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.920 ended abruptly, and he was then ignored and denied to 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.120 work out with any other team in the league. It 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.559 became obvious to anyone following the game at the time 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.840 that he was being blackballed. The following year, he became 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.160 the first free agent to compete during All Star weekend, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.400 defending his three point championship in an NBA logo jersey, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.400 since he couldn't get signed by a specific team. As 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.720 our nation faces a familiar problem of prejudice and racial inequality. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.480 I can't help but notice Craig Hodges has been at 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.240 the front and center of these issues since he entered 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.880 professional sports in the eighties, and he paid the price 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.400 for it. Today we talked about his past, our present, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.360 and his hopes for the future. This is Craig Hodges 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:28.560 on the No Sports Report From Creig Hodges to Accept 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:33.480 Press One. Hello Craig, Yes, I wanted to first start 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.000 off just by asking where you've been quarantined and how 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.640 you're holding up during the the COVID pandemic. Well, first 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.480 of all, just pointed out for hopefully everybody's well and 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.400 saved this crazy period of time man on this rogo 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.239 right now in the South suburb. Well, I'm happy to 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.120 hear that everything is going well with you, but clearly 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.320 the events of this past weekend unfolding. I wanted to 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.200 talk to someone who has had a racial identity and 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.680 politics that I've always looked up to and helped shaped, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:00.880 you know, help shape me sort of a white kid 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.600 growing up in the suburbs. And and even if this 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.280 wasn't a sports podcast, you truly were the first name 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.760 that I sat when asked, and it means a lot 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.160 for me to be able to talk to you today. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.320 So for people who don't know who Craig Hodges is, 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:12.919 is there any way you could kind of go over 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.079 your upbringing and how as a kid you first got 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.920 into activism growing up? Yeah, well, once again I was 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.880 Bush the nutho came down in the Hodges how so 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.920 James twenty nine, at the height of the Civil rights movement. Um, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.720 my mom was instrumental in as part as being the 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.360 secretary of the movement in the South suburbs. And you know, 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.320 during that period of time, there wasn't baby for it. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.640 So where Mom, when you went? And I was at 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.360 all the meetings, watching a love leadership, watching Robert Low 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.000 who was the president of the organization, and to see 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.080 how it was when, you know, when everybody was repressed 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.440 from the same telling, the same pressure from the same place, 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.800 whether you're a millionaire or a bus driver. And for me, 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:02.160 how's it called? Coming home? Ninety eight April fourth and 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.640 and my granny and mym crimes I got never say 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.360 before it Dr King had been murdered. So from that 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.800 point on I was on the quest to see what 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.400 his life meant and how much it mentor so many 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.800 people and then to have you know, models in front 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.599 of me like Muhammad Ali, John Carlos, Tommy Smith, Jim Brown. 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.160 And my family was one that was My granddad was 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.240 the he was the director of the parks in our community. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:34.200 And my granny was the homemaker and stabilizer. So for me, 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.600 I was blessed to have anch who taught me how 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.640 to read before I went to school. So education was 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:44.200 primary and secondary was my athletics. So it's truly m 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:49.120 a trainer of student athleticism with the overriding principles that 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.599 undergrated so the civil rights movement, social activism, and now 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.039 where we face is truly a human rights situation that 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.880 the planet has to face that has never been taught 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.760 to about it. Really wanted to really look into the 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.919 depths of it. Yeah, absolutely, And your basketball skills, like 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.159 you said, your athleticism sent you to the West Coast, 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.520 out to Long Beach State to play where you had 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.159 a friend to become a victim to police brutality. Correct, Yeah, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.080 no doubt. And once again, you know, I think text 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.440 winner Laura rush isself for recruit me at Northwestern and 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.920 then he got to drive the Long Beach State he 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.840 took me the Long Beach State UM. I was blessed 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.840 to have had Dr Malanikringer, who's the founder of Plans 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.840 as my first professor at Long Beach, and I was 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.159 turned on. And that was almost just a reconnection of 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.120 what I had landed his child and how important what 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.920 we were doing in the movement was concerned. And during 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.520 that period of time, during my first three years, I 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.280 had a chance to become friends of a better body 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.799 man of Ron Settles. It was the premier football player 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.960 and I was just pretty a basketball player and me 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.720 the summer before I senior year, he was murdered by 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.919 the Signal Real Police and UM Sitnal World, California, and 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.200 you know the data that happened. Happened June six, and 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.599 I recalled before I left LL, I never really came 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.880 on campus because you met of golf campus. But the 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.360 two days before I got ready to leave, he came 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.080 on campus looking for me, and he was just telling 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.400 me how he was gonna be ready. He's getting ready 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.800 in the summer because he knew he's gonna get drafted 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.480 in the NFL and at the Dallas Cowboys was looking 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.440 at him and I said, I didn't know who was 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.960 gooding at me, but we were gonna have great senior years. 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.800 And I was coming home to Chicago the train and 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:34.719 then I get a call to find out he had 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.560 been he has been hung in his jail cell and 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.600 and it was it was a very eye opening thing 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.560 for me, and and that far when we went back 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.920 to school, we protested, and you know, it was there 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.240 was value of lessons for me and as far as 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:54.400 how valuable life is and how oftentimes we are looked at, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.920 we are looked upon as equals, and those who were 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.440 uniforms often times have a certain eager trip that they're 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.000 on for whatever reason. And and Ron happened to be 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.960 the victim of that that so many other people. Once 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.960 we had covered the truth of what was happening and 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.840 sticking the heel police for itself, for me, there was 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.360 a it's another endue quest man, the truth and justice 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.320 and for human rights for all people on the planet. Yeah. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.440 I'm such a big fan of your book that was released, 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.520 which we'll get into a little bit later. And I remember, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.600 I think the detail is he went to jail for speeding. Correct. Yes, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.920 And the thing about that was, you know, it was 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.000 it was camera showing and it didn't go down and 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.200 what they said, So it was a lot that went 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.040 on then. And then to find out that the other 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.600 victims of the Signal Hell police force which was only 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.480 like a police officers and one of which was got 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.080 by a name of Jid Round, Jerry Wilson or something 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.600 like that. But you know, it was it was crazy, man, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.440 just to have had that experience as a year old, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.520 to know that, you know, life is precious and and 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.720 you have to protect it. And when one of your 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.520 you know, one of your partments will victims, you can't 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.080 you can't stand by and watch. You have to, okay, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.080 some type of proactive measure, but you have to make 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.720 sure that you maintain your fability and when what is uh, 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.200 what is life? Men? And you know, being twenty years old, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.400 like you said, and the era in which you were, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.320 you were in college, like, were there any ramifications for 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.600 what happened back then? What were the chances of justice 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.400 actually being served or getting to the truth. Well, you 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.000 know that that was one of Danny Cockinents first big cases. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.679 So he was able to get the family some restitution. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.320 But you know, I think at that point in time 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.000 there was we were still in that climate where cops 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.880 having violence against young Bladen man with the other centers 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.280 all over the country. That was at the height of that, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:50.520 you know, and there was the height of the all 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.319 of the the stuff come along with the crack and 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.839 everything else. It was one of those things where the 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.920 almost suspects on site as opposed to it would actually 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.120 went down. So, you know, we have to realize that 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.400 it today's combination of a live has gone on for 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.640 the found years and when not a country is coming 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.440 to a drastic reality of it's not just black people. 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.679 I think people of all nationalities and ethnicoes and cultures 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.559 and relating to are can the realities and the injustice 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.320 of gone on that gives you Black men and black 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.640 people in America for years? Absolutely, And and so let's 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.040 get to the NBA. You have an incredible tenure career 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.040 playing with the San Diego Clippers, the Bucks, the Sons, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.479 but most notably the Chicago Bulls. You won two championships 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.719 with them. The team obviously we've been seeing a lot 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:45.160 of during the pandemic with Michael Jordan's ninety two. After 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.600 winning the ninety two championship, you visit the White House 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.040 as most teams do that win, and you visit the 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:53.959 president at the time, which is George Bush, and and 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.719 explain to people who don't know the story, what controversy 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.599 came out of this visit. Well, you know, actually is 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.840 I told the first one went after the first campionship 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.360 and gave President Bush and letter. Actually I wrote a 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.240 letter as night before we went, and I had planned 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.719 on win African Daishiki, you know, because that's how it's 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.679 caught growing up, is that whenever you come to a 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.240 royal event, become with your culture. And for me it 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.800 was was probably one of the greatest days in my life. Man. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.640 Then as far as representing um people who can't represent 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.000 the plays and delivering their message to the most possible 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.439 man on earth. Whether you read it or not, I 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.720 don't know, but uh, through my research for my book, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.199 and and the book has has been optioned by the 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.400 producers A Black Mirror in Britain, so we're getting really 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.800 and I have a documentary and future film come out 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.400 on the book, which is you know, it's another great 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.240 thing for me and as far as been able to 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.319 utilize its the economic vehicle as opposed to just my 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.280 own personal wealth. For me and my family. Um, and 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:58.920 you know that thay are to do the things for 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.960 me man, just knowing that within the context of how 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.559 you raise you can't stand unflexible. And you know, the 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.360 chance to need to take go to the White House, 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.000 regardless of what it what it may have cost me 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.720 on an immediate level the next four or five years 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.199 which I felt I could have played. Uh, he gave 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.720 me a chance to you know, become closer and tiedle 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.120 with my son and to see and being able to 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.280 be in their lives on the level that I hadn't 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.839 been for years because of the league. So it was 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.080 a blessing in the burden then that period of time. 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.280 But now I see it for what it is is 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.920 lessons learned, and you know, lessons learned for this period 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.920 of time where we can you know, be strong and 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.360 courageous and the strategic in the manner in which we 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.120 come out of this thing and not be re actionary 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:52.120 and violence. And you were only thirty two at that time, correct, Yeah, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:57.000 same age as Kevin Durant right out. I mean someone 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.439 watching from afar right. So for for research for this, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.360 I remember you being in a daishiki was was a 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.920 very big deal in the press, and doing research for this, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.280 I thought that I would find pictures and that you 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.120 would be very much ostracized at the White House and 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.160 not smiling, and it was literally the exact opposite. You're 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.280 having a ball, George Bush asked you to shoot a 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.760 three pointer. You guys are all laughing together. I'm so 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.800 surprised by the militant angle that was taken by the 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.400 press and to people like me who were sports fans 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:28.960 at the time about that visit and the letter, which 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.400 I remember people saying was about the Gulf War, but 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.880 but it wasn't. You had a completely different angle in 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.920 the letter. Absolutely, and that's the part where you know, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.559 the stand that can happen from professional sports franchise is 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.800 from professional sports in general is media driven, and if 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:51.239 the media is into with the franchise, that the franchise 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.240 has a certain look at a player, then that player 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.079 is going to be pilted in that night. And for 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.640 me it was one that you know, he's for salmon 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.679 and rather, don't you know, no one asked me what 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.439 the letter said until I did thirty with ESPN, and 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.640 they never showed it, which is funny to me again 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.640 of how you could to come out and do a 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.000 whole documentary about the letter and then never released it 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.839 because or whatever. And when we were filming and I 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:19.480 told them, I said that they're not gonna let you 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.600 show this because it's too important and it's too clear, 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.000 and it wasn't anything bash in America or any of that. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.520 Is just laying down the historical facts of what my 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.040 people have been through, as well as those who have 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.320 been disenfranchise. It's not just about black people. It's about brown, yellow, red, 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:41.800 and white who evolved in um totally disenfranchise in so 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.880 many ways because it's only about the rich and the 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.800 powerful that have been able to flex their their will 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.560 and power over people. And you become a free agent 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.080 at that time after this, you know, quote unquote controversy, 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.120 and you don't get any any tryouts from any other 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.319 teams in the NBA. Even the Bulls coach who you know, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.800 Phil Jackson at the time, who was coaching you, doesn't understand, 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.760 even looking back now, how someone with your three point 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.200 average uh and and you know your athleticism at thirty 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.000 two wasn't given that. And so a lot of people 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.800 in the league believe you had been blackballed right. And 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.920 you know, the funny part about it is that when 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.880 I came in SWAG in nineteen eighty two, I was 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.760 drafted to forty eight player selected. There was no pretty 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.640 point shot in college basketball and during that period of time. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:25.200 So when people look at my career and they said, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.640 and then needs a pretty point shooter, that's cool. But 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.760 I was I'm a professional basketball player. And then my 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.880 my basketball intellectors. You know, I I challenge anybody on 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.640 the planet when we want to sit down and talk 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.600 basketball and strategy, look get at it. So from that end, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.200 and I was talked by the best, I was talked 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.640 about tech s winner. I came into a league under 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.360 Paul Silence. I had Jimmy Lynon, I uh don, I 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.640 had done Nelson, I had kind of send me by 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.160 a bad Collins, and I had Till Jackson. But then 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.160 when we talk about the staff, just to coaching staffs 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.880 under Phil Jackson alone, when you talk about a hundred 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.240 years of service, when he come about Johnny Back, Jim Clemens, 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.680 Text Winn and Frank Hamblin, you're talking about you know, 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.440 you're talking about guys who had you could just you 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.520 could just learning from them just about sitting next to 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.960 them and not saying anything. So right, right, So for 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.960 the fact that you're coming off the two World championship 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.920 and three consecutive prepoint titles and no one wants to 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.960 even bring you in, it's it's crazy insane, you know. Yeah. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.560 And and before this instance, and I remember this from 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.280 the book, you had talked to Magic Johnson and Michael 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.520 Jordan about boycotting that game one of the NBA Finals 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.840 as a response to the beating of Rodney King and 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.880 and they looked at you like it was crazy, right. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.920 And you know, the funny part is that when we 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.480 look at the hierarchy of both society and then whatever 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.480 realm you're in, there's a certain pecking order, and if 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.160 you're on the bottom part of that packing order and 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.160 the people aren't hearing you, man, it's almost you know, 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.120 you casting aside and anything that I'm saying to agree 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.200 unless we're on the court hoop. And I guess, but 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.000 you know, from me, it was one of those things 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.120 where I talked to Michael about, you know, opening up 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.920 the same manufacturer we have overseas in America, and that's 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.160 being able to produce, choose and stuff here, and that's 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.520 the part that I felt like we kind of missed 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:18.160 a boat in its pri championship on both levels, Chicago 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.440 and Los Angeles, two of the biggest media markets. What 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.720 would happen if we would have said, we're going to 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.320 have a work stoppage and we want to change the 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.680 condition of police and civilians and you know, we want 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.440 to protect the Sarah to really mean something. But at 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.440 that take period of time, I was asking us to 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:39.400 boycott in order to create some type of ownership black 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.560 ownership within the league. Having the lead looked reflective on 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.920 the ownership level to what was on the court. And 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.920 it continues today. You know, I've seen yesterday what the 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.680 lead is talking about, some type of um ratial justice 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.920 committe or whatever. I'm glad to see that. Hopefully they'll 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.600 bring in the mood up the role for myself and 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.120 other players who are short feel like they have been 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.320 castigated in the past. Yeah, yeah, I mean it was 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.800 right around the same time of the beating of Rodney King, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.640 correct of that game that you would you would ask 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.800 maybe to boycott. Absolutely, it was. And that's you know, 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.320 and that's the thing where you know, how oftentimes, man, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.840 I think you know, we have the ability to turn 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.600 the blind eye or play ignorance to causes and issues 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:26.280 because it's not palpable to be endurance since we may 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.359 have or to a deal, we may be trying to 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.360 strike or whatever, and we have to start to put 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.320 to human the human condition above money. And that through that, 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:37.879 I think is one of the things that I have 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.800 a lot of love for is what Lebron has been 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:46.160 doing and and not being afraid to stand with what's right. Man. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.199 Everybody knows this way. Yeah, well, ironically I thought, I mean, 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.119 I thought of you pretty quickly when I saw on 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.119 Sunday that Michael Jordan put out a three paragraph statement 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.720 about racism and brutality. Did did you get to read it? Yeah, 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.600 saying that this morning, and I was and and you know, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.560 once again and I give a pause where Paul is 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.000 due man, and I loved my brother and I never 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.320 you never have not. You know, they've been to agree 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.960 with a lot of a lot of the principles that 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.399 he supported and endorsed, and as far as products and 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.560 and the like, so that you know, it's not on 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.399 need to judge anyone that it's going everyone to come 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.800 to their consciousness and do what they feel necessary to 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.840 given time, but too much, as given much is required. 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.600 I was with him when they were riding in Miami 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.120 and ride and stopped just so we could come down 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.760 to Miami so they could see Michael Jordan play. So 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.639 I know the power and impact that he has. So 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.920 him putting out a statement is it is very good. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.840 I mean, it's um, it's timely and hopefully it would 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.160 just be the start of much more more with Craig 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:58.000 Hodges after this. Right now, Feeding America is working tirelessly 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.040 to ensure our most vulnerable population, like students who are 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.400 out of school, the elderly individuals whose jobs are impacted, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.200 and low income families continue to have access to food 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.760 and other needed resources during the COVID nineteen pandemic. The 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.760 Feeding America Food Bank Network is committed to serving communities 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.560 and people facing hunger in America, and their greatest need 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.000 is donations and support of local food banks. This podcast 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.280 is committed to donating a portion of the proceeds from 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.560 the show to Feeding America, and we hope that you 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.879 can join us in this effort to find out how 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.360 you can help Feeding America dot org. Backslash COVID nineteen 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.120 and now the rest of my chat with NBA legend 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:43.479 and activist Craig Hodges. So let's talk about this past weekend. Now, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.280 what went through your head when you saw the horrific 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.879 video the murdering of of George Floyd. Well, it's just 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:57.280 just a continuation then, and I think for I think everyone, 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:03.600 any human beings, Ah, the we canness in it, saw 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:09.440 the unholiness in it, saw the vitality, and you know 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:15.800 the fact that you can murder someone and feel comfortable 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:17.800 with doing it and thinking that you're going to get 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.359 away with it. And I think that's the part and 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.560 parcel of what white suffromacy, racism, and the systematic brutality 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:33.800 have gone on, unh untried, unprosecuted, unjustified. And now we're 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.280 seeing where the planet is riding up there, having demonstrats 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.560 in Tokyo, Japan. Black Lives Matter, Germany, Black Lives Matter. 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.160 So that's telling us that the human condition is one 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.160 that vibrates worldwide and that what effects one affects all. 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.679 So those who have power and might are waking up 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.560 this morning with a different idea and scope. When you 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.640 think about the magnitude of people power and people being 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.440 able to take this thing and take anger to a 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.120 level where they're destroying it, and they're destroying the system. 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.560 And you know, it looks like it may be a 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.760 wal model and maybe a Maciez or maybe this or that, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.280 But when we look at the root of it, then 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.000 people are angry with the system and they don't have 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.040