1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: I was Bloomberg Sound On, the Insiders, the Influencers, the Insiders. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: We continue to open this economy slowly, but it's coming back. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I want to know what the theme is going to 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: be for Republicans. I can't imagine a more important person 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: in Washington right now, then Senator Joe Manchin Bloomberg sund 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. We made it. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Greetings from Bloomberg Headquarters in New York, the Bloomberg Interactive 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Brokers Studio. Indeed, I am Joe Matthew, your new host 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: here on Bloomberg's Sound On, and thanks for coming along 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: this Thursday. It's a great honor for me to join 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: you and the incredible team here at Bloomberg. With a 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: special tip of the hat to Emily Wilkins and Jack 13 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick who helped to keep this program afloat past few weeks, 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: along with our contributors Genie she and Zano and Rick Davis. 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed listening to them and learning from them just 16 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: like you, and we're going to continue to tap their 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: experience as we move forward here on sound On. This 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: program will follow the same inciples it always has to 19 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: bring you hard news from Washington, policy over politics, and 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: as you'll hear conversations with the people who make decisions 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: that affect your life and move the markets. From Joe Matthew, 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: this is Sound on Welcome to Thursday, and welcome to 23 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. President Biden, as you heard live earlier, emerged 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: from his meeting with the Prime Minister with a big 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: announcement on the global fight against COVID. The United States 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: will purchase an additional half billion doses from Visor Visor 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 1: Vaccine that will donate nearly one hundred lower and lower 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: middle income countries. They will be the beneficiaries. We announced 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: that we would donate eighty million doses of our own 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: vaccine in the House now to supply the world by 31 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: the end of June. Many of these doses are shipping 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the countries around the world as we speak, and today 33 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: we're taking a major step that will supercharge the global 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: fight against this pandemic. Super larged from President Biden's sound 35 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: as he spoke to reporters in Cornwall. Bloomberg's Josh wing 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: Grove was there, our White House correspondent who's on the 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: road with the administration, and he joins us now on 38 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On Greetings, Josh. I get the sense, having 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: seen you and heard you on surveillance this morning, that 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: you never sleep. I try, I do when I can. 41 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: Joe and Hardy, congratulations on your new role. Were thrilled 42 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: to have you. Uh and you know you've got a 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: good news day to kick it off. Well, that's right, 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: let's get to it, because you've been making the news 45 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: here and I've been following you all day here. The 46 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: vaccine shots, these are fiser doses, will go to ninety 47 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: two countries in need. Obviously a big step in vaccinating 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: people who have not had access to these vaccines. The 49 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: President that referred several times Josh two American values in 50 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: making his announcement almost a big public relations campaign for 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, he had been under increasing pressure, 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: in particular from countries that don't have access to the 53 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: kind of doses that you have the side access to. Right. 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: Biden has gobbled up doses made on US soil. Uh 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson has done the same thing in the UK. 56 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Other countries, including some of the G seven, Japan, Canada 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: have been you know, sitting there wishing they had that 58 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: that option, that luxury and so now he has been 59 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: facing this mounting pressure. We've got doses in the US 60 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: maybe even expiring, at risk of expiring. You can walk 61 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: into any CBS pretty much and get a shot. So 62 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, he the time had come for him to 63 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: sort of make a decision. Now the big top line 64 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: number here's five million. What they're doing here is actually 65 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: kind of redirecting money. They kicked off this whole thing 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: months ago by saying four billion to Kovacs. That's a 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: global sort of vaccine procarement effort. And they gave too, 68 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: and they were going to hold back the other two 69 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: is a bait on the line. What they've done and said, 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: take that other two and use it, combined it with 71 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: some other money to get these five million doses. So 72 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: they're sort of pulling back on giving money and pivoting 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: to giving these fiser doses. Is really made in Kalazoo, Kalamazoo. 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Excuse me, Michigan. So an American American story. The President 75 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: referred to his visit to the plant there not long ago. Uh. Instead, 76 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: the vaccines would come with no strings attached, with a 77 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: little bit of a nod to China there, but he 78 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: urged other countries to follow the US here, Josh, and 79 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: I wonder who is he talking about. I mean, he's 80 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: going to talk about the UK a little bit. In 81 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: the medium term, he might be talking about other countries 82 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: and the EU. You know, I think he's actually risking 83 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: a little bit being too cute by half here, right, 84 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: Like the reason he can do this is because he 85 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: hasn't really exported until now at all. He leaned about 86 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: four million doses to Canada in Mexico, but until two 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: weeks ago that was it. So you know, if you're 88 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: Europe who has been exporting this whole time, although not 89 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: in numbers anywhere near five hundred million, you might say, well, 90 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: welcome to the party. You know, this might be a 91 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: bit much, but regardless, the money they've given to Kovacs 92 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: is the most of any country, even when they've cut 93 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: it in half. The five million doses donated is by 94 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: far the most because other countries like China are selling 95 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: doses and so Biden is really pivoting hard here and 96 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: he just as he has the doses to do it. 97 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: The wrinkle is fiser as as people who have been 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: paying attention to this now and if you have, Mike 99 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: Indulce's has been a slog these last six months is 100 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: the toughest to store, the toughest to ship. It requires 101 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: the coldest temperature, So there's a bit of an ex factor. 102 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: You've got ninety two the most sort of hard done 103 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: by countries in the world, and so there's a big 104 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: supply chain question here about how this will all work. 105 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: We're talking on Bloomberg Sound On Today with Bloomberg White 106 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: House correspondent Josh wing Rove, who's clearly traveling with the president. 107 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: I hate to be jaded here, Josh, but I work 108 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: in the news business. With this fee happening, if we 109 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: weren't experiencing a major downturn and vaccination rates here at home, 110 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: probably not, and they're worried about that. Biden's goal is 111 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: se having one shot by the July four, right, he 112 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: wants to celebrate Independence Day independence from the virus. They 113 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 1: are not on pace to get there. They're um paced 114 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: to fall somewhere like sixty seven percent. I mean, he'll 115 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: probably take it as a half and you know, he'll say, well, 116 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: this number of states have hit seventy in the country 117 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: will hit seventy probably this month. We're going to run 118 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: through the tape. What have you but you know, I 119 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: think I think the only reason he's doing this is 120 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 1: because he knows that they have so many doses swimming 121 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: around the US right now that no one can credibly 122 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: be to say that, oh, I wanted a dose, but 123 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't get one because we gave a bunch to 124 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: these ninety two countries. I'd like to ask you more 125 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: about the President's meeting with the Prime Minister Boris Johnson 126 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: while you're with us here at Josh. Despite some concerns, 127 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: it was all pleasant trees when the two first sat down. 128 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: This is sound from their pool spray, and I believe 129 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: you were in the room for this. Everybody was pretty 130 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: happy at the moment the Prime minister we have something 131 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: in coman' both married, way above my stas. I'm not, 132 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm descend from that one. But if I'm 133 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: going to disagree with the bread than that, or if 134 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: he on anything else, or on anything else. Remembering that 135 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: Joe Biden once called Boris Johnson a clone of Donald 136 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: Trump opposed brexit, Josh, do we think the pleasant trees 137 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: continued behind closed doors? I think so they need each other, 138 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: and I should clarify my our our esteemed Bloomberg colleague 139 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer Jacobs was in that room. We are a dynamic 140 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: duo covering this trip. I think. Look, Boris has borrowed 141 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: a lot from Trump's playbook, so has Biden. I mean 142 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the America first stuff has kept in place, 143 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: in particular for Europe around terraffs and so you know, 144 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: he's wants to consolidate vaccine manufacturing the US, create US 145 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: jobs on shore stuff, pull away from China, you know, 146 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: gather European allies, sort of link arms and and pushed 147 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: back against Chinese moves abroad, shall we say? You know? So, 148 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: I think I think these who are pretty incentivized to 149 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: work together. The rub has been this border issue, the 150 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: Good Friday Agreement, What does Brexit mean for Northern Ireland 151 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: in the UK. Biden is a proud Irish Irishman, you know, 152 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: it's an Irish Catholic, and this has been a this 153 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: has been a priority for him for sure, and that 154 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: caused a little bit of ruffled feathers here. But but 155 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson took out a big bucket of water and 156 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: try to dust that today when he spoke. So I 157 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: think he's trying to take the tension down. I know 158 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: you have to get back to work in just a 159 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: second here, Josh. But what's going to be the biggest 160 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: issue we're talking about G seven over the weekend. Is 161 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: it corporate taxes or climate change? I think it's both. 162 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: The big question I'm looking at right now is that 163 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: what the communicate will say there, for instance, talking about 164 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: things like pacing out electric or excusing gas powered cars. 165 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: Will look for language on that. Will new climate pledges 166 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: come through? I generally don't hold my breath on things. 167 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: And will other countries come through with new vaccine donations. 168 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: We'll see, but I don't think anyone has the bandwidth 169 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: the pledge that kind of numbers the US is pledging. 170 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg White House Correspondent Josh wind Grove. Thank you so much, Josh, 171 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: for your time and good luck on the road. We'll 172 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: talk to you again. Thank you. You're on Bloomberg sound On, 173 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: And by the way, his colleague, our colleague, Jennifer Jacobs, 174 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg White House correspondent, who was in the room for 175 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: that moment you heard, will be with us tomorrow on 176 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: sound On as we follow the bouncing ball here through 177 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: the G seven meeting and we're just getting started here 178 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: today as we now add none other than Jennie she 179 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: and Zano to the conversation. Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie. It's 180 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: great to see you, welcome. Thank you for everything that 181 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: you have done to make this a great program over 182 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: the past few months. As Charlie said, I'm giving you 183 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: a fist bump, and it's so great to be on 184 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: with you on your inaugural show, first show on Bloomberg Radio. 185 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: Thank you for having well that means a lot to me. 186 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: We covered a lot of ground there with Josh as 187 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: you were listening. I think it's significant that President Biden 188 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: chose to make news on vaccines before the G seven begins. 189 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: It is you know, this is something the United States 190 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: has been criticized for. I think you were right in 191 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: your question to Josh. Would this have been happening if 192 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: the United States hadn't seen COVID numbers go down? And 193 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: of course we have a surplus. If they're not used, 194 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: they could go to waste. So I think those two 195 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: factors are critical. But the United States has to catch 196 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: up with China and Russia in terms of getting these 197 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: vaccines out to these poorer countries. And the President is 198 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: determined to do that and make news on his first 199 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: overseas trip doing that, and it's an important step. Does 200 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: that create a different backdrop for this meeting with the 201 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: leaders of the G seven nations than we would have 202 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: had otherwise? It does? You know, I look at this 203 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: as the big three c's. You've got COVID, You've got China, 204 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: and you've got climate, And of course climate encompasses all 205 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: the other things, including electric vehicles, which is something I 206 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: know you're you're focused on and interested in, and also 207 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: of course the corporate text. So those are big issues. 208 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: But COVID hangs over everything we do and has for 209 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: the last year, and it will continue to as the 210 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: world wrestles with how to respond to this devastation. And 211 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: the president's remarks today, you look at the numbers who 212 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: have been deceased and and and around the world by 213 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: this thing. It is it is, you know, hard to 214 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: even put your head around it. As he reminds us, 215 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: all the modern wars and wars of modern history combined. Uh, 216 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: when we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. When 217 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: you also hear him talk though, you realize how far 218 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: we have to go. I think that's the point you're making. 219 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: You know, we're walking around New York in many cases 220 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: without masks. They're doing that in Washington now and cities 221 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: around this country. But it's a reminder of how much 222 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: is left to be done, particularly in these countries that 223 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: don't have the benefit of the economy we do and 224 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: the ability we've had to battle this and that is 225 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: the big struggle. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound on 226 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Indeed, I am Joe 227 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: Matthew and it's great to be here. Thanks for joining 228 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: us some Bloomberg sound on in the studio today with 229 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Geenie She and say no, of course, 230 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. I won't be able to 231 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: be in here all that often, so I'm making the 232 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: best of it right now. Joining us on the line, 233 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: sound on, j Stephen Morris and Senior Vice President and 234 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: Director of the Global Health Policy Center at the Center 235 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: for Strategic and International Studies. As we take a deeper 236 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: dive on this promise from President Obiden to deliver some 237 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: half billion visor doses two countries around the world, it's 238 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: to have you with us on Bloomberg Sound On. Thank you, Joe. 239 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: Are you skeptical of this? How much of a client 240 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,239 Speaker 1: will this be for the administration? No, I'm not skeptical. 241 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: I'm quite encouraged. This is a big step um committing 242 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: to half a billion doses. Keeping If you put this 243 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: in context, Uh, the United States up to this point 244 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: had committed to eighty million doses by the end of June. 245 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: That was considered fairly modest. Uh. The other wealthy and 246 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: most powerful countries in the world have been very slow 247 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: to step forward and make donations of their surplus doses. 248 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: So this is a this is a big event coming 249 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: right before the G seven. It's also significant for a 250 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: couple of other reasons. I mean it first of all, 251 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: it's the fives are the m r n A vaccine, 252 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: so this is moving that to scale into low and 253 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: middle income countries. There are lots of handling requirements. It's 254 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: a bold move by Albert Burla from Fiser to amp 255 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: that up and deliver it um. And it's Uh. The 256 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: President is is out there showing that he's confident he 257 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: can sell this to American people, emphasizing of adult American 258 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: Americans have had at least one one vaccine. Uh, there's 259 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: been a lot of hesitation up to this point by 260 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: President Biden to get too far out in front on 261 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: the international response. He's come under a lot of pressure 262 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: and criticism in the United States for that. He's making 263 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: his argument as a wartime arsenal mobilization, as something that 264 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: strengthens American manufacturing capacity and has a geopolitical dimension of 265 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: going against China and Russia. He's already drawn vocal support 266 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: from two very prominent Republican Senate figures, Senator Graham and 267 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: Senator sass That's very significant too, because there's been a 268 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,239 Speaker 1: fear of a backlash on part of some grounds against 269 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: the United States taking a leadership position of this kind. 270 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: So he's covered himself quite well. I think in the 271 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: way this has been presented, you make a great point, Stephen, 272 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: that there was a time we were calling Astra Zeneca 273 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: the vaccine of the world. Then we called Johnson and 274 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: Johnson the world's vaccine. Now apparently it's going to be 275 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Fighter for now. That's what it's looking like. And what 276 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: does that mean. It means that Fightser is in a 277 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: way winning the competition right now and being able to 278 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: demonstrate that it can amp up its production capacities very rapidly. 279 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: J and j M has has struggled with that. Astra 280 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: Zeneca has struggled with that in particular. They'll catch up 281 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: in time. But this is this is proving the concept 282 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: that the mr N A vaccine, that technology which is 283 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: the most effective and safe among the new technologies, can 284 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: be entered used on scale to low and middle income countries. 285 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: This is comparable to you remember years ago the debate 286 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: about can we bring anti retroviral therapy to people in 287 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: eastern Southern Africa to to to care for them those 288 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: people who are living with HIV, and the argument being well, 289 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: it's a sophistic it's too sophisticated a technology. We can't 290 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: bring it, handle it, get it down to to cost. 291 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: Fightser is offering this at cost to the United States 292 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: at seven dollars a copy versus the twenty dollar price 293 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: tag that it's used up to now in the sales 294 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: to the United States and others for the rich marketplaces. 295 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: So we're moving into a different phase now in both 296 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: the operators that are that are moving into it by 297 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: Sir in the lead, moving towards mass bulk at reduced prices. 298 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: That's very important. We're joined by j. Steven Morrison's senior 299 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: vice president, director of the Global Health Policy Center at 300 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: the Center for Strategic and International Studies today on Bloomberg 301 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: Sound on the optics here are really compelling to me, Stephen, 302 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: not the America first approach, but in fact a pledge 303 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: to help the world. And as you were just describing 304 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: the have nots in this case, for President Biden to 305 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: be walking into this G seven meeting, the messaging here 306 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: is significant. It's yes, America is back, but also it 307 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: sounds like America is here to help. Yes. And there's 308 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: a couple of points here that reinforce your argument. These 309 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: doses are going to go to what's called KOVACS, which 310 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: is a solidarity mechanism created by a bunch of donors 311 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: and foundations and others international organizations w h O, GAVVY, 312 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: the Vaccine Alliance in order to bring bring vaccines to 313 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: low middle income countries. So what the United States is 314 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: doing is it's stepping forward and becoming the dominant uh 315 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: leading donor to a multilateral mechanism to bring these vaccines. 316 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: It's saying we don't we don't care that these vaccines 317 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: are going to go forward under Kovac's umbrella. They're not 318 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: going to be branded as US vaccines. They're vaccines that 319 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: are being donated that will move forward. The other thing 320 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: I would say is doing this with the timing that 321 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: the President has chosen is also putting a lot of 322 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: pressure back upon the EU, the Canadians UH and the 323 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: British uh too, and the Japanese other members of the 324 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: G seven to step forward and follow with the untas 325 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: we need to see one to two billion donated ghost 326 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: is in one alone. Welcome to Bloomberg Sound On. I'm 327 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew and joined here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker 328 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: studio by Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie She and you know 329 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: and of course as well as we promised, David to Fury, 330 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: former Obama campaign, former policy advisor, former State depart An 331 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: official for Starters. David, welcome. It's great to have you 332 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: with us. Thanks for having me, grad to be on. Genie, 333 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: stay right where we are as we have this conversation, 334 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: looking forward here to the G seven and also reflecting 335 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: on the promise we heard today from President Biden and 336 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: his vaccine pledge. I'd love to hear from you first, David, 337 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: on that as a matter of foreign policy. We've been 338 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: talking about this largely as a health issue, almost a 339 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: public relations uh effort here by the Biden administration. But 340 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: when it comes to foreign policy, there is an element 341 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: here of diplomacy and making people safe. There is This 342 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: is one of the things that I expected. You know, 343 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: we had a rosco of it with COVID nineteen. At 344 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: times we had more cases than any other country in 345 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: the world. But now as we've come on the other 346 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: side of the pandemic as a result of our vaccine 347 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: program and the fact that we've been able to roll 348 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: out vaccines to many of our citizens, the US now 349 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 1: needs to step up and help foreign countries that if 350 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: we don't, it's actually going to boomerang back on us. 351 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: There are many countries in the Third World, countries that 352 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: are on the verge of becoming failed states already. If 353 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: they can't get a handle on the pandemic, it will 354 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: put them further on the brink. And even our allies, 355 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: including countries like India, are struggling. So we can help them, 356 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: and by helping them, we can improve the world economy 357 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: and speed up the recovery for the world economy, which 358 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: is important to our own economies. So this is important 359 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: both for our security and the global economy that we 360 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: do provide vaccines to the extent we can to support 361 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: those countries that are having trouble accessing that genie. It's 362 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: hard not to acknowledge the economic aspect here because we 363 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: cannot have a global recovery without global vaccinations. How much 364 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: does this have to do with protecting Amory America's economy 365 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: by vaccinating the world, It has everything to do with it. 366 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: The United States understands, as does the rest of the world, 367 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: that we all can't be safe until we are equally 368 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: vaccinating the entire world, and so the United States is 369 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: stepping into that. One thing I think is important to 370 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 1: underscore here about what the President has said today is 371 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: that the United States is going to do this with 372 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: no strings attached. According to Joe Biden, and this he 373 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: is trying to say is in sharp contrast to what 374 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: China and Russia have done, where they've used this, you know, 375 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: world vaccination program that they have been pushing to further 376 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: their own geo political interests. And he wants to make 377 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: the case that the United States stands apart from that, 378 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: we are going to be providing these vaccinations regardless of 379 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: our own interests. And I think there's going to be 380 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot of questions there as we follow this rollout. 381 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: Who gets these, when, how and why? Because the no 382 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: strings attached that he's put on this is a big 383 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: promise to make. It's a massive promise, David to Fury, 384 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: They're gonna be a lot of sharp elbows. I'm assuming 385 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: like that references to China over the next couple of days. Well, absolutely, uh, 386 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: you know. And and this comes at an interesting time, 387 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: of course, because President Biden is on his first overseas 388 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: trip and meeting with our traditional European allies, and one 389 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: of the big subjects will be China and of course 390 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: also Russia. Purpose of this visit and it has multi purposes, 391 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: but one of the main ones is to shore up 392 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: the relationship with our allies so that we can have 393 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: a common approach to the threats posed by Russia and 394 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: by China. It will be interesting to see how Biden 395 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: exercises his new position to effectively demonstrate that America is 396 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: back in. America is back in the lead. You mentioned 397 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: the word relationship, and I want to refer back to 398 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: what we saw heard earlier today from President Biden as 399 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: he spoke to one very important relationship following his bilateral 400 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: meeting with Prime Minister Boris Johnson. We have sound on 401 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: President Biden. We affirmed the special relationship, as it's not 402 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: said lightly, the special relationship between our people, and renewed 403 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: our commitment to defending the enduring democratic values that both 404 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: our nations share. Jennie, what is that relationship now, President Biden? 405 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: If you saw some of the op eds in London 406 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: papers this morning, you know what he was walking into here. 407 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: He's he's compared Boris Johnson to call him a clone 408 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump, opposed Brexit. There were op eds waiting 409 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: for him about that this morning, but everyone seemed to 410 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: get along pretty well. What is that relationship now? They did. 411 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: And one thing I will say about Boris Johnson, which 412 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: I think has been lost in some of as you 413 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: mentioned the British press, which is itself can be very tough, 414 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: is that Boris Johnson, for all his you know, closeness 415 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: to Donald Trump that we talked about, he all so 416 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: was amongst the first leaders to call and congratulate Joe 417 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: Biden on his win, and he has you know, made 418 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: the case that he is supportive of the United States, 419 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: not of any individual leader, and so I think that's 420 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: important to underscore. And you know, you're looking at at 421 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: two two leaders in Boris Johnson and Joe Biden, who 422 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: have been at this a long time and who know 423 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: that they have to think about what's in the best 424 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: interest of their nations and this relationship obviously between Great 425 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: Britain and the United States. As they talk about the 426 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: Atlantic Charter eighty years ago in nineteen forty one and 427 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: a new Atlantic Charter for the twenty one century today, 428 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 1: they understand the import of this relationship. So as you know, 429 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: tough as the words were back during the election and 430 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: even a little bit after that, and the concerns Biden 431 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: has expressed about Northern Ireland and so many other things, 432 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: these two gentlemen, these leaders know how important this relationship 433 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: is and they seem prepared to move forward on that. 434 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: So I think the papers are going to have to, 435 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: you know, at least be a little bit more optimistic 436 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: about what's coming down the pike. Here, David the Fury, 437 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: we have less than one minute thirty seconds. Here are 438 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: these two world leaders going to work together and collaborate 439 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: over the next several years. Absolutely they are. You know, 440 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: of course Johnson has an eccentric personality and that's one 441 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: thing he has in common with President Trump. But in 442 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: many ways he's not like President Company Engabenson anidemocratic behavior 443 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: that Trump did, and so they will find a common box. 444 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg you Sound On with Joe Matthew 445 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Nice to see you, Thanks for joining 446 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: us on on Bloomberg Sound On. We're live from the 447 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio in New York. Indeed, I am 448 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew, the new guy, and awfully glad that you're 449 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: here with us, and we have breaking news today on 450 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: sound On, with an eye on Washington and infrastructure. Get 451 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: this one point two trillion dollars over eight years, bipartisan 452 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: group of Senators agreeing to a propos mos infrastructure package. 453 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: To that tune, there'd be five hundred seventy nine billion 454 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: in new spending above baseline spending, the cost nine seventy 455 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: four billion. You do the math, and it's not close 456 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: to the original offer, of course from the White House 457 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: that was in excess of two trillion dollars. We're going 458 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: to talk about this now with Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie 459 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: she and say no, she's still well. This as is 460 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: David to Fury, former Obama campaign foreign policy advisor, former 461 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: State Department official. Before we hear from them, I want 462 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: to hear from White House Press Secretary Jen Saki because 463 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: there is no deal here. We have obviously breaking news 464 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: and a direction, but the deal that we thought might 465 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: be in place fell apart. And Saki tells ABC News 466 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: that when you're being criticized from all sides, whether it's 467 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: Alexandria Costio Cortez or a group of Republican senators, it 468 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: means progress. We have a lot of paths were moving on, 469 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: and the President is quite encouraged by the progress, and 470 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: he'll stay very engaged in this, even as he's on 471 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: his first overseas trip. It's always a sign that we're 472 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: making some progress if there's criticism from all sides. I 473 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: remember telling people that you know, as a broadcaster, Genie, 474 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: like well, you know, if they all, hey, are you're 475 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: doing something right? But is that true here? And do 476 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: you see a path with one point two trillion dollars 477 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: over eight years. Mitt Romney is also now suggesting a 478 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: way to pay for it. He is, and you know, 479 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: I wish that that was the case, that if they're 480 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: all criticizing you, you're moving towards a deal. But this 481 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: is really a question of numbers. They need to get 482 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: ten Republicans to do this without reconciliation, or they've got 483 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: to retain the mansions and cinemas of the world to 484 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: do it with the Democrats and on reconciliation. Plus they've 485 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: got to maintain the Liberals in the House as well. 486 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: We can't forget about them. So it's difficult. It's a 487 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: good sign that they're up to one point to this 488 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: so called group of twenty. That's up. They were at 489 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: about eight hundred and eighty billion before, so they are 490 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. But of course, as you mentioned, 491 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: there's still about five hundred billion short of the president's 492 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: last offer, which was one point seven trillion. We've got 493 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: the president overseas, as you've been talking about, and you 494 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: know he's got people negotiating obviously on his behalf. But 495 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: the clock is working against them. They'll only be in 496 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: session a couple of weeks in July, so they've got 497 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: about five to seven weeks to get this done. And 498 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: then of course we've got a budget to to consider 499 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: and those kinds of things to keep the government open 500 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: in September. So the clock is ticking. They've got to 501 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: move fast, David to fury. Mitt Romney isn't exactly the 502 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: most influential Republican voice on Capitol Hill. I don't know 503 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: how many friends he's going to make with this particular idea, 504 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: but I wonder if you see any chance of this 505 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: happening in the next couple of weeks. Well, Mitt Romney 506 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: is really carved out a position for himself as a 507 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: dealmaker and someone who's willing to compromise and go across 508 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: the aisle, and I think that's consistent with what he's 509 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: doing now. I agree with Jennie that, you know, sometimes 510 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: it is a good thing if if people on the left, 511 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: far left and people on the far right orticizing you, 512 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: you're doing something right. But here it really is about 513 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: the numbers, and Biden can't afford to lose the far left, 514 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: and he's already unhappy, and far left is unhappy with 515 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: aspects of this new compromise suggestion. It's much less than 516 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: Biden originally proposed, and you know, the Senators and House 517 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: members who pushed forward this compromise having even worked out 518 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: how they're going to pay for it, and the pay 519 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: for part of this is particularly problematic. There doesn't yet 520 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: seem to be agreement. And what's really unfortunate is that 521 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: the inability to get a deal on infrastructure is holding 522 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: back Biden from pursuing the rest of his agenda in Congress. 523 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, going back to what we 524 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: were talking about with with Biden overseas, I mean, he 525 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: was saying yesterday and I'm quoting him here. It falls 526 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: to us to prove that democracies will not just endure, 527 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: but they will excel. We have to discredit those who 528 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: believe that the age of democracy is over. And yet 529 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: what's going on at home is not helping him make 530 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: his case. And infrastructure is a key, but not the 531 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: only example of that. We also have voting rights, we 532 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: also have gun control, a variety of issues, We have 533 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: a crisis at the border, and Joe Biden has made 534 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure the top priority of his administration next to COVID, 535 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: and so this is critically important to him to make 536 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: this case, not just in the United States, but across 537 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: the world that democracies can do. And I think he's 538 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: got to be very concerned with the fact we don't 539 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: have a bill to put forward yet. A lot of talk, 540 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: but no bill yet on infrastructure. So the president's walking 541 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: a real tightrope here. Obviously, you move to the right, 542 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: you lose the left. You move to the left, you 543 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: lose the right. But with all of that said, uh, David, 544 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of time here, and a lot 545 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: of promises have been made. Yeah, there's not a lot 546 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: of time here. And you know, unfortunately the victims here 547 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: at American people we do need infrastructure. Um, we you know, 548 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: are engrave need of infrastructure. Well, let me ask you 549 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: about that is the biggest problem here. Defining infrastructure has 550 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: that if we could go back in time, if the 551 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: Biden administration could go back in time and recast the 552 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: way this was described as more than Rhodes bridges and tunnels, 553 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: would this be a different conversation. I think that would help. 554 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: But I suspect that the Republican detractors who don't want 555 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: to pass a bill for reasons other than just what's 556 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: in the bill, would find ways to oppose it. If 557 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: they had done that as well. So this is more 558 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: than about what's in, you know, the compromise. It's really 559 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: also politics. I remember during the healthcare debate a long 560 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: time ago, uh in another administration that Joe Biden was 561 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: part of Genie that I remember President Obama saying, you know, 562 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: we just didn't do good enough job with the communications. 563 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: If we could go back and recast the messaging some how, 564 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: it would have been a different debate and maybe a 565 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: more positive and more by partisan outcome. He did absolutely 566 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: say that. You know, I am not convinced that that 567 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: is the case. However, I think this has a lot 568 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: less to do. We always talk about the communication aspect 569 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: of these things, but the reality is is the government 570 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: was designed to be divided, and it has continued to 571 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: be divided. I'm not just talking partisan divides. I'm talking 572 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: about the fact that we have elections. People go to 573 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: the polls, they vote for Joe Biden and the Democrats, 574 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: and they can't get basic aspects of their policy through. 575 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: That's by design. So yes, you know, everybody can do 576 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: better on messaging. But in this case, I don't think 577 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: it's either personality or necessarily communication. I think this is 578 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: the way the system is built, and they're going to 579 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: have to figure out a way to move forward on this. 580 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that they're going to be able to 581 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: do it at this point, and I think that votes 582 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: very badly for Democrats as we move into the midtern Well, 583 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: this is the way the system is built. Unless you 584 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 1: remove the filibuster, then we have a new system. Then 585 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: is that where you're going, Well, yeah, the filibuster is 586 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: one aspect of it, and of course that's not constitutional. 587 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: That's the Senate rule, so you can change that easily. 588 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: Even so, we have a huge division between Congress and 589 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: the executive branch that you're not seeing in other democracies 590 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: around the world. So there's a lot of structural divisions 591 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: built into our system thanks to James Madison that if 592 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: you can start to, you know, mitigate those, at least 593 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 1: you'd have better ability to be responsive to the public 594 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: who go out and vote for these people and don't 595 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: see their favorite policies come to fruition. A lot of 596 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: great points there, David to a fury. If this one 597 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: point to trillion dollar offer or attempt at a deal 598 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: goes nowhere is it on to reconciliation I'm not sure. 599 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: I really don't know, you know, reconciliation. There's some dangers 600 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 1: with doing it that way. Certainly lose the friends that 601 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: you have in the Senate who are public ends, who 602 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: are somewhat supportive of this um So it's there's a 603 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: real danger there. But this isn't you know, one of 604 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: the most important pieces of the Biden agenda, and his 605 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: supporters in the Democratic Party in the House and Senate 606 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: really want this to pass. So maybe in the Senate 607 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: they do go forward that way and the end of 608 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: the filibuster is a bridge too far or could we 609 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: be talking about that in a couple of weeks again 610 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: that that's are also a really tough there's real danger 611 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: to ending the filibuster. Obviously that would you know, in 612 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: the end, it would hurt Democrats if and when in 613 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: the future they are no longer in the majority. Republicans 614 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: would certainly shove that down their throats. What's good for 615 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: the goose is good for the gander. So I think 616 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: everyone is wary, you know, the filibuster has you know, 617 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: it is often served good purposes in our you know, 618 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: congressional system. It's forced the Senate to move further toward 619 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: consensus and to get you know, biparts and support for legislation, 620 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: which you need for it to be successful. And I 621 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: would hate to see it go. But if there continues 622 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: to be gridlock, I could see some in the Senate 623 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: pushing for that. Yeah, we're in for a heck of 624 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: a year. Here. We only have a minute left this 625 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: Thursday edition of Bloomberg Sound On, just to look ahead 626 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: briefly to tomorrow and the weekend. G seven. Uh, Genie, 627 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: what's the big one that you're looking at? Is it 628 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: climate change? Is it corporate taxes or is it something else? 629 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: I am looking at climate change. I think climate and China. Also, 630 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: I'm back to the three Seas. I'm setting COVID aside 631 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: though for a minute, but I do think I do 632 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: think climate and China are the two big things I'm 633 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: looking for, and what agreements because of course there's a 634 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: lot of division amongst the European nations on how to 635 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: confront China, so that is going to be fascinating. David, 636 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: Will there be news on either of those this weekend? 637 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. What I'm actually most interested in is 638 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 1: what's going to happen on Russia, Because you know, Biden 639 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: his meeting with our allies, and then he's going into 640 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, his historic summit with Putin in Geneva. You know, 641 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: this is the first summit since two thousand eighteen when 642 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: President Trump really embarrassed us in his summit with Prutin, 643 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: and Biden has to demonstrate he can do better. In 644 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: order to do that, he's gonna have to have the 645 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: support of our allies. The G seven is the appetizer. David, 646 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: Thank you. David to Fury, former Obama campaign foreign policy advisor, 647 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: former State Department official with us here on Bloomberg. Sound on. 648 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Batthew. This is Bloomberg.