1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: This episode contains discussion of suicide and self harm. Listener 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: discretion is advised. 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to forget all the places I had slept, 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: no one knowing where I was, always one step away 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: from tragedy. All I'd wanted growing up was to read 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: books and study, but instead I learned how few acceptable 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: ways there were to need help. You had to be perfect, deserving, 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: hurt in just the right way. Even then, adults were 10 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: so constrained in what they could offer. Everyone who dealt 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: with disadvantaged kids, from therapists to college admissions officers, treated 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: us as if we could overcome any abuse or neglect 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: with sheer force of will. 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: In the present tense, I was sick of pretending to 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: be so resilient, so I preferred to keep my mouth shut. 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: That's Emmy Neatfeld, software engineer and author of the recent 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: memoir Acceptance, and Emmy's is, in fact a story of 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: profound resilience, not the kind that is pretend or performed, 19 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: but the real, true kind of inner compass that points 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: again and again toward belief and hope and home. I'm 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, the secrets that 22 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: I was born in Minneapolis, and I lived in the. 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: City for the first five years of my life, and 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: then my parents and I moved to a suburb just 27 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: outside the city, where we lived basically through elementary school. 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: My mom was a crimecy photographer and my dad stayed 29 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: at home with me. 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 3: We were pretty really. 31 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: I was a state Bible memorization champion, and I really 32 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: loved going to school and reading and learning. And I 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: didn't have that many friends. I was kind of a 34 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: nerd and was often on keemps with like on brush hair, 35 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: dirty sock. But I really loved school and studying and 36 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: had all these big dreams for my future, mostly dreams 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: that involved like glorifying God and disproving evolution. 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: What did religion mean to you in those early years? 39 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: It was a place where I felt like I could 40 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: be myself. I did not have good social skill. I 41 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: came from a very strict household, and so I feel 42 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: like I was not having as much fun as other 43 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: people my age were having. My dad had a pretty 44 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: bad temper, but I felt like in religion. I could 45 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: imagine this future in which I would be like the 46 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: most about, the most pious, and would be really rewarded 47 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: and seen by God for my devotion. I had an 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: older half brother, and he was the son of my 49 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: mom's first marriage. He really loved me. He is a 50 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: great brother to me, but my dad felt a lot 51 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: of hostility towards. 52 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: Him, and starting around when I was. 53 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: Around three years old, I was really prevented from seeing him. 54 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: And you were described as an only child, right, I 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: mean they wanted you to think of yourself as. 56 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: An only child. Yeah. 57 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: Even my mom, who would never say that my brother 58 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: wasn't anything but kind and loving to me. She would say, like, 59 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, you're the prototypical only child. She would describe 60 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: me that way in from other people, even though I 61 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 1: had a brother who I lived with for the first 62 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: years of my life. 63 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: Any excels in school. She's a bit socially awkward, a 64 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: self described nurse, very bookish. She loves to read and 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: she loves to learn. One day, when she's nine years old, 66 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: her dad picks her up from school and makes an announcement. 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: He tells her something she's supposed to keep secret. 68 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: When I was in fourth grade. 69 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: My dad picked me up from school one day and 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: told me I'm changing my name to Michelle. And I 71 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: was a little bit shocked, but mostly I just wanted clarification. 72 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: So I asked her, you know, does this mean you're 73 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: going to be a woman now? And she said yes, 74 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: and that I should you she her pronouns, but not 75 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: tell my mom. It was still a secret from her. 76 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: In Minnesota in two thousand and two, nobody around me 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: had ever even heard of somebody being tramped, Like there 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: was no kind of cultural touchstones. There was no like 79 00:04:53,920 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: Caitlyn Jenner or Transparent or even Oprah featuring somebody trans. 80 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: This is pretty new and not something that I that 81 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: I really knew about. 82 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: Like my church was very. 83 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: Anti gay, and I had it ingrained in me that 84 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: being gay was a sin from a very young age, 85 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: but I didn't really know how being trans was related, 86 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: if it was being gay, and even if we were 87 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: going to stay in the church anymore. 88 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: And so in Michelle asking you to not tell your mother, 89 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: she was asking you to keep a secret. 90 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: When she asked me not to tell my mom, I 91 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: recognized it as Michelle will tell my mom. Eventually that 92 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: she's not ready yet, And it made a lot of 93 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: sense to me that it. 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 3: Would be something where you wanted to be really prepared. 95 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: But it did put me in an awkward position, especially 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: because I grew up with this really strong sense of morality. 97 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: And on one hand, I wasn't supposed to lie to 98 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: my parents, and keeping a secret can easily feel like lying. 99 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: And on the other hand, I was supposed to obey 100 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: my parents, especially my father, which is this role that 101 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: Michelle had been playing. And luckily I only had to 102 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: keep that secret for a couple months because Michelle did 103 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: come out to my mom. 104 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 3: In my head, I really imagined that. 105 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: Michelle was going to come out and then my parents 106 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: were going to stay together, and then it was going 107 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: to take some time for Michelle to lay this groundwork 108 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: so that we could continue being a family. And when 109 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: Michelle did come out about two or three months after 110 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: telling me, I was completely unprepared that my mom was 111 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: not okay with it. My mom felt really betrayed, and 112 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: I remember being in my bedroom and listening to my 113 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: parents downstairs at the kitchen table, and Michelle was crying 114 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: and telling. 115 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: My mom, you know, Jesus would accept me. 116 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: How I am, and my mom replied, I'm not Jesus 117 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: and called my dad by her dead name. You know, 118 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: I think I held out hope at that point that 119 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: my parents were. 120 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 4: Going to find a way to make it work and 121 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 4: they were going to stay together, especially because the church 122 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: we were in really thought of divorce as a sin, 123 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 4: and so I thought, you know, how could it be 124 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: worse for my parents to stay together than for them 125 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 4: to get divorced. But my mom told me a few 126 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 4: weeks later that she was going to move out and 127 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 4: once again told me not to tell Michelle. 128 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: After my parents separated. 129 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: I continued living with Michelle in the same house where 130 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: we'd been, and I really wanted to stay with her. 131 00:07:54,880 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: My parents started going through this divorce process and they 132 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: were not going to agree on anything. They'd had a 133 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: very contentious relationship and it was going to be an 134 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: even more conscientious divorce. So I remember being taken into 135 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: all these offices with social workers who asked me what 136 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: I wanted, and I said, you know, I want. 137 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: To live with Michelle. She had been the person who 138 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 3: was home with me, you know, every. 139 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: Day after school. We had that relationship. She wasn't perfect, 140 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: but she was there and then the same social workers 141 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: would tell me that I was too young and it 142 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: didn't matter what I wanted, they were going to figure 143 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: it out. And I encountered again and again people would assume, like, oh, you. 144 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: Must be really traumatized by the transition. It must have really. 145 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: Screwed you up, and basically viewed Michelle as a bad 146 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: parent for transitioning, or as a bad. 147 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: Person or bad influence. And you know, it had been 148 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: kind of little shocking, but I was nine, Like, I got. 149 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: Used to it really quickly, and even though Michelle had 150 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: been really harsh at times and a strict disciplinarian, I 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: don't think that she was always a great parent to 152 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: me before that, but it all made a lot more 153 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: sense once she came out and she was, you know, 154 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: kinder to me and nicer to me. But nobody around 155 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: really seemed to recognize that, and instead I felt like 156 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: everybody was just listening to my mom, and everyone had 157 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: a lot of sympathy for my mom because her marriage 158 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: had dissolved in this way, and you know, I think 159 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: it is hard, but I think Michelle also deserves sympathy. 160 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: Q It became extremely frustrating to me to feel like 161 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: I was sharing what I wanted and it didn't matter. 162 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: My mom was this super charismatic woman. She was really 163 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: really smart. As a girl, she had dreamed about going 164 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: to Stanford and she had not gotten in and felt 165 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: like it was a really close call. And she told 166 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: everyone who would listen about her high IQ and her 167 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: SAT score. And this sounds like something that would be 168 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: really annoying, but she was just so personable and so 169 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: easy to talk to, very gregarious, so she could convince 170 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: people of almost anything. And meanwhile, she from the time 171 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: that I basically could remember. 172 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: She was a big clearance shopper. 173 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: I remember coming to her office at work and seeing 174 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: all of these bags from Target that were filled with 175 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: like dozens of watches Winnie the Pooh watches printed with 176 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: a tigger character with the little orange tags them that 177 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: showed the low price, and it was such a good 178 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: deal that she bought one hundred and my dad would 179 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: not have tolerated that, so instead she had these bags like. 180 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 3: In her office at work, in her car, and it 181 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 3: was something that. 182 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: I knew I was not supposed to talk about, otherwise 183 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: she'd get in trouble with my dad. 184 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: So there was this contrast between this charismatic, articulate woman, 185 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: very intelligent, you know, charming and seemingly together in some ways, 186 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: and you know sort of the chaos that was lurking 187 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: just beneath the surface of that. 188 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I think my mom's chaos and her charm. 189 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: Developed in pandem where the charm was a defense that 190 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: she could use. It's somebody disagree with her or they 191 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: tried to challenge her, she always had a respond and 192 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: she could always justify what she was doing. So I 193 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: don't remember her ever really admitting that she was wrong 194 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: or imperfect, or that there was something that could change 195 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: the weekend before I started sixth grade, Michelle came home 196 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: from a hearing. 197 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: And told me that my mom had one custody and 198 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: that I. 199 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: Was moving in with her, and that she was going 200 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: to arrive any minute then. And then she went to 201 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: her room and slammed the door, and I was sitting 202 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: there just completely shocked. 203 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 3: I had been. 204 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: Prepared to start sixth grade at middle school with my 205 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: best friends, and now is going to be in a 206 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: different school district, living with my mom in a different 207 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: part of the Twin Cities. 208 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: And I went up to my room, you know, my 209 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: space covered in tears. 210 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: I packed all my stuff into these black plastic trash 211 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: bags before my mom arrived, and that night I moved 212 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: in with her. 213 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 3: Before the custody evaluators came to do a home visit. 214 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: She had cleaned out her apartment by moving all of 215 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: these boxes of stuff into an adjacent apartment. We lived 216 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: in a duplex, and during that time, the top floor, 217 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: which she normally rented out, became a storage facility for 218 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: her junk. But by the time that I moved in, 219 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: there were boxes of photo albums, receipts, packaging, empty water bottles, 220 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: already kind of encroaching on our living area, you know. 221 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: And I had hoped that my parents really split custody. 222 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: But a few weeks after my mom won custody, Michelle 223 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: came to see me at school and she was moving 224 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: across the country. And that was the last time that 225 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: I ever saw her. And you were how old I 226 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: was ten, about the turn eleven. 227 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: Suddenly, Emmy is living a whole new life. She's in 228 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 2: a new place, in a new neighborhood, in an entirely 229 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: new family dynamic. She's alone with her mother, whose chaos 230 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: is tangible. Emmy's mom is hoarding amassing all sorts of 231 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: stuff that spills into every corner of Emmy's world. 232 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: At first, I was really lonely and sad, and I 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: did my best to move forward and to make new friends, 234 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: make new hobbies. But as the year went on, it 235 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: became increasingly difficult to live with. 236 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: My mom in her house. 237 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: Almost every night after school, she would pick me up 238 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: and we would go shopping, and we had a rotation 239 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: of the late local drug store, target, the grocery store, 240 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: home depot, and we would stay out at these places, 241 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: laid into the night. My mom had legal debt from 242 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: the divorce, and then pretty soon she had these big 243 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: credit card bills from shopping, and the piles of stuff 244 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: in our home were just closing in on me and 245 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: my mom. Maybe she saw that I was struggling, and 246 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: she took me to therapy. And I think a lot 247 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: of parents in her position they would take their kids 248 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: the therapy if they could, but it was not really 249 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: a place for me. 250 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: To talk about how I was feeling. 251 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Instead, we went to the family therapy and my mom 252 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: told the therapist like, there's something wrong with Emmie, And 253 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: her first complaint was telling him I think Emmy has 254 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: add and my mom had attention deficit disorder, and she 255 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: thought maybe my brother had to and so she told 256 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: the doctor, you know, she's disheveled, she's chronically late, and 257 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, I was ten, right, how can a ten 258 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: year old be chronically late? But he gave my mom 259 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: a questionnaire and my teacher a questionnaire, and after cube appointments, 260 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: I was diagnosed and. 261 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: Referred for medication. 262 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: I was perscribed concerta and my first week taking it, 263 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: I hit a kid over the head with a textbook. 264 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: And then I was given Vanak to help me deal 265 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: with the panife that I felt from the concerta, and 266 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: my mom gave me her leftover adderall and the doctor 267 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: prescribed me adderall on the condition that my mom would 268 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: stop giving me. 269 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: Medication that wasn't prescribed. 270 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: And it just went from like one medication to another, 271 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: and after a while I believed that I was really. 272 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: Sick because I believe what the doctor. 273 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: Said, like, oh, this medication is going to fix me. 274 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: It's going to make me feel better, and that the 275 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: problems that I'm feeling are all in my head and 276 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with me. And when the drugs weren't working, 277 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: it felt like it was just confirmation that I was 278 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: messed up and that nothing was going to help me, 279 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: and then I was never going to be happy. 280 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. In addition to feeling unwell and unhappy, 281 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: Emmy is also feeling frustrated nobody is listening to her. 282 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: She wants the medical professionals to actually evaluate her. She 283 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 2: wants them to pay attention to her mom's disposition too, 284 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: to come see where and how they live. 285 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: In my house, there was one rule where which was 286 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: don't let people inside, especially not people from the government. 287 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: And even though we had that rule, when my mom 288 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: took me to the doctor, I told them, I said, 289 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: you need to come see our house, see how we're living. 290 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 1: For months, we didn't have hot water and we couldn't 291 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: take a shower. It was the winter Minnesota, and it 292 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: was all because the pilot light was off on the 293 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: water here, but we legitimately couldn't get access to it 294 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: for six months because that's how bad the boarding was. 295 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: And I told all of these professionals, therapists, doctors, social workers, 296 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: and nobody came or even treated it like there was 297 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: a possibility that something real was going on at home 298 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: that was responsible for the way that I was feeling, 299 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: and nobody flagged either that it was weird that my 300 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: mom was taking me to the doctor, first because she 301 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: thought I had add and then adding on other problems 302 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: that she thought I was having, like seizures or eating disorder. 303 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: Just one thing after another. She was taking me to 304 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: the doctor, sometimes two or three times a week. 305 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: And even though the doctors could be how many times 306 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 3: I've been in, nobody seems. 307 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: To pull the alarm or come to interview or even investigate. 308 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: This is all taking a serious toll on Emmy. The 309 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 2: myriad medications are basically fighting with each other in her system, 310 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 2: and she begins to exhibit a number of alarming symptoms, 311 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: both physical and psychological. 312 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: I did become really depressed, and I started hurting myself, 313 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: mostly scratching myself To say to him, I did start 314 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: making myself pro love and not eating and abusing adderall 315 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: that was left over from the medication and all this 316 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: stuff was expected of me, and I felt like I 317 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: was doing what people expected. And also it helped me 318 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: try to deal with the feeling of not having any 319 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: control over my life and just feeling so bad that 320 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: I had to do something to make myself feel better. 321 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: And when I was thirteen, I was going off of 322 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: one medication and having really bad withdrawal, and I had 323 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: been suicidal for a while, just feeling like there was 324 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: really no way out and that the medication wasn't going 325 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: to help me, adults weren't going to help me, and. 326 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: I really thought it's going to be like this for 327 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 3: the rest of my life. So that summer I overdosed 328 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: and tried to kill myself. 329 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: After Emmy's suicide attempt, she is admitted to a psychiatric hospital. 330 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: There she encounters the first medical professional who truly listens 331 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: to her, who recognizes that perhaps Emmy isn't the troubled 332 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: one here, perhaps it's her mom. 333 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: When there was finally one psychiatrist who thought, Okay, my 334 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: mom is the. 335 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: Problem, my mom got really. 336 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: Suspicious of him, and she took me out of the 337 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: hospital against medical advice. He had contacted Hennepin County where 338 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: I lived, and I had then referred to a social worker. 339 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: And this wasn't like a Child Protective Services complaint. She 340 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: was a case for her who worked with teenage girls 341 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: who were deemed thick. 342 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 3: Enough to be their own problems. 343 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: But finally she wasbody who my Mom was not able 344 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: to shake, like she could not just make this woman 345 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: go away. Ingrid had been working as a social worker 346 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: for a number of years and she came to my 347 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: house one afternoon. And I had been begging people for years, 348 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, come. 349 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 3: See how we live. 350 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: And then she was finally there. And it was a 351 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: summer afternoon when my mom was at work, and she 352 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: probably knew this, and she asked me, would you let 353 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: me inside? 354 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: Can I just come in? 355 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: I immediately recognized that, you know, it felt like a trap, right. 356 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: She didn't have a warrant to come in or anything 357 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: like that, and so if I let her in, it 358 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: was going to be my choice. And even though I'd 359 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: wanted people to come, I could imagine what was going 360 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: to happen if Ingrid did come inside. And I just 361 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: I kept looking at her car, which was this white 362 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: like government looking forward, and I knew that if I 363 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: opened the door, I would be taken away and I 364 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: would be placed in Child protectives and Services again involved, 365 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: I would be placed in the foster care system, and 366 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: my mom's house would probably be condemned. And even though 367 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: my mom had so many. 368 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 3: Challenges and was doing things that really really hurt me. 369 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: She was also my biggest advocate and I couldn't imagine 370 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: hurting her like that. You know, when the social worker 371 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: when Ingrid came to my house, I felt completely hopeless 372 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: about my future. But I thought, at least if I 373 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: stay with my mom, I can kill myself, because she 374 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: wasn't supervising me to twenty four to seven, and. 375 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 3: She opened doors that otherwise wouldn't be open. 376 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: She had just proven her power by signing me out 377 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: of the hospital against medical advice, and that gave me 378 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: the sense of there's certain things that parents can do 379 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: that nobody else in the world can do for me. 380 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: And at the time, it made me feel hopeless in 381 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: a way because it's like this is the parent that 382 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm stuck with, right and she is my only hope. 383 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: Shortly after that, I was hospitalized again, and from there 384 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: I was sent to a residential treatment center. But when 385 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: I was in the hospital, something unexpected happened, which is 386 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: that I was sent to a even disorder unit in 387 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: the suburbs. And before that, I I've been in psych 388 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 1: words in the city filled with kids who were a 389 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: lot like me, who were working class like I was, 390 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: and there wasn't a lot of like talk about our future. 391 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: But at this hospital eating disorder unit, the doctor asked 392 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: me where do you want to go to college? And 393 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: it was the first time anyone in a medical capacity 394 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: had taken such a serious interest in my future. And 395 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: even though I ended up being taken from that place 396 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: in restraints in an ambulance and taken. 397 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: To this locked facility, I had. 398 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: This sense of purpose for my life that I wanted 399 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: to go to college, and I wanted to go to college. 400 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: Early I was living in this facility that was locked 401 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: three times by three different doors. There were bars are 402 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: over the windows, and we spent hours a day in 403 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: quiet time, just sitting alone in our room. But when 404 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: I got an act test prep book, I felt like, 405 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: for the first time my life had this purpose and 406 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: that if I could just study and I get a 407 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: good act score, I might be able to go to 408 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: college in the next few. 409 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 3: Years and have the escape that I was looking for, the. 410 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: Escape that really didn't feel possible when I was living 411 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: with my mom, and so I put really all of 412 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: my hope into this idea of going to college, and 413 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: it was for me a reason to live. But the 414 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,959 Speaker 1: adults who were who were watching me and the other kids. 415 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: They did not approve of this ambition, and they told me, 416 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, you're avoiding your problems. 417 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 3: You're not still busing on treatment. 418 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: And they took away the Act book. 419 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 3: And all my other books and said that. 420 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: From then on, I was only allowed to read appropriate 421 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: teen fiction that they had specifically approved. And when they 422 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: did this, my mom was the person who advocated on 423 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: my behalf, and they didn't listen to her, and they 424 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: didn't give me the books back. But she was the 425 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: person who was there saying, you know, my daughter's smart, 426 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: she can go to college. You should honor that about 427 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: her and let her read the book. 428 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 2: What do you make of that, Emmy, That particular way 429 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: of your mother advocating for you, as you say, it's 430 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 2: one thing that you really shared and were kind of 431 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 2: aligned with her about, was that that you could have 432 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 2: that kind of ambition and that you could end up 433 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 2: going to you know, prestigious university, and that you were 434 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 2: that smart. 435 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: My mom really believed in me. She had so much 436 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: face that I was brilliant, I was a genius, that 437 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: I was destined to do great things. And when she 438 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: talked like this in front of doctors, it made her 439 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: sound crazy, Like I could tell that something was changing 440 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the medical professionals when they heard 441 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: her speak about me like this, almost like they wanted 442 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: to prove her wrong. And in hindsight, I do think 443 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: that a lot of my mom's faith in me was irrational. 444 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: And I grew up with this narrative for my mom 445 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: of her saying all the time, I almost got into Stanford, 446 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, I almost got into Stamford. And that was 447 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: how she interpreted a rejection from Stanford, was I almost 448 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: got in. But you know, as a kid, and I 449 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: believed it because she was really smart, you know, even 450 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: though she didn't go to Stanford. And if one of 451 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: the smartest people I knew was telling me that I 452 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: was smart, I was like, okay, I better. 453 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 3: Believe in this, you know. And it didn't really matter 454 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 3: to me as. 455 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 1: A kid if it was rational or not, because I 456 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: felt that warmth of having someone believe in me. And 457 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: how even though there were all these ways in which 458 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: she was failing me, there was this one really important 459 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: way in which she had my back. After I got 460 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: out of the residential treatment center, I went into foster care. 461 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: And most kids who are going into foster care it's 462 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: after an investigation from child Protective Services where they deemed 463 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: the parent unfit because of abuse or neglect, and there's 464 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: a court proceeding and the parents have their rights taken away. 465 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: And that was not what happened in my case. 466 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: Instead, I was deemed to need extra emotional support that 467 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: my mom couldn't give, and so it went through another 468 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: channel where basically I was placed with a foster home 469 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: without really an investigation or looking into my mom, and 470 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: she maintained the power to agree to let me go 471 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: to foster care and also to remove me at any time. 472 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: I was placed with a family I called the foster parents, 473 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: Dave and Jan, and they lived in a suburb about 474 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: an hour away from Minneapolis, in the big mcmmansion on 475 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: a cul de sac and in a really good school district. 476 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: I had been afraid that foster here was going to 477 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: be like this place where there were a million kids 478 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: being neglected. It wasn't bad at all in my case, 479 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: and I had pretty much the best case scenario, but 480 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: it was not easy. Dave and Jan were taking me 481 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: in trying to do a good thing. It's really hard 482 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: to find homes for teenagers, and they were offering that, 483 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: but we quickly ran into conflict, especially around school, where 484 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to be studying and doing homework, and Dave 485 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: and Jan were convinced that I was miserable and depressed, 486 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: not because I was in foster care or because my 487 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: family was spelling apart, but because I was too ambitious 488 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: for my own good, and they wanted to help me 489 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: by teaching me that I was normal like everybody else, 490 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: not special, and have a normal life, which was a 491 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: life just like there. And all of this was made 492 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: worse by conflict with my mom, who was constantly pushing 493 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: their boundaries and being critical of them. But she wasn't 494 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: the bad guy. There was no bad guy besides me 495 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: because there had never been an investigation or a trial 496 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: or anything like that. 497 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 498 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: Emmy's time with Dave and Jan is made fraught and 499 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: complicated by the fact that her mother is always late, 500 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: very late whenever she comes to see Emmy or drop 501 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 2: her off after a visit. She's constantly impinging on their plans, 502 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: which is ironic because Emmy's mother had identified Emmy as 503 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: the one who had issues with chronic lateness. Emmy has 504 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: also started a new high school, which she loves, but 505 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: her schoolwork becomes a point of friction with Dave and jam. 506 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: At my new high school, I really flourished, especially in 507 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: art classes, and one of the early big conflicts that 508 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: I had with Dave and Jan was over my advanced placement. 509 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 3: Art history homework. 510 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: I had to print out pictures of famous artwork and 511 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: attach them to note cards. And one day, after I 512 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: sent my images to the family printer, I was intercepted 513 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: by Dave, and that night Jan called me down to 514 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: the TV room and asked me what I was doing 515 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: with the pictures and that they did not want to 516 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: have pornography in their home. 517 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 3: And I was so confused. 518 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: About what they were talking about until she showed me 519 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: a sheet that had to print it out black and 520 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: white picture of Michelangelo's David. That was what she meant 521 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: by pornography. It was just such a different culture than 522 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: the way that I was raised. It was just a 523 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: completely different attitude towards life, which peeped into all of 524 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: our interactions. 525 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: As a result of yet another tenuous home dynamic, Emmy 526 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 2: is backed even further into a corner. She continues to 527 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 2: self harm. She cuts herself and makes herself throw up. 528 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 2: She believes there's nothing else to do and nowhere else 529 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 2: to go until there is summer camp. 530 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 3: When I was in foster hair my photography feature miss Day. 531 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 3: She was one of the few people who. 532 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: Knew about my living situation, and she would ask me 533 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: if I miss my mom. 534 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: She knew about my visits. 535 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: With her because my mom and I would take photos together, 536 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: and she suggested that I applied. 537 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 3: To summer camp. 538 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: She wrote me a letter of recommendation and I got 539 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: into this photography camp at interlock In in Michigan. 540 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 3: It was very complicated for me to actually go. 541 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: My foster parents did not support the plan, and going 542 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: to camp meant that I would give up my foster 543 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: care placement and I would have to find a new 544 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: home if I came back to foster care. But while 545 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: I was at summer camp, I was recruited for the 546 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: boarding school that interlock In ran, and I ended up 547 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: getting a scholarship to attend for my junior year of 548 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: high school. I said that I was able to leave 549 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: foster care and really focus on my dream, which was 550 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: to attend in Ivy League college. 551 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 2: How were you mentally and emotionally during that time, you know, 552 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 2: once you're closer to your dream. You're living away from home, 553 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 2: you're living away from your mother, you're no longer in 554 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 2: foster care, You're at this prestigious and very art centered 555 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: and academically challenging place. How were you when, for the 556 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 2: first time in your life, you were in a place 557 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 2: that sort of matched up with who you were. 558 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: When I got to camp, I was so amazed by 559 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: just how happy I was. I had felt for so 560 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: many years like an outcast or unwanted or bad, and 561 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: suddenly I was just the thousands of other teenage artists, 562 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: and we were all aware the same uniform, which feels 563 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: like such a small thing, but for once I actually 564 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: fit in. And a few days into summer camp there 565 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: was a barbecue, and afterwards I went to go make 566 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: myself grow up, just because, you know, a routine that 567 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: I had, And before I did it, I really stopped 568 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: to ask myself why, and I found that I no 569 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 1: longer really had a reason that for once in my life, 570 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: I felt happy, And once I got to boarding school, 571 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: distresses of my life outside did not go away, and 572 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: it was a stressful time, in part because the Great 573 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: recession was really at its full swing, and I worried 574 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: about my financial future, but I just had so much 575 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: more emotional stability being in. 576 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 3: This place where I felt supported. 577 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: And I was free in many ways from my mom 578 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: and from my foster parents at some of these adults 579 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: who are well meaning but were not able to actually 580 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: help me. 581 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 2: Interlockn is finally a place where no one is stopping 582 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 2: Emmy from dreaming big. She begins to look at colleges 583 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 2: and wants to aim sky high. She discovers a college 584 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 2: counselor based in New York City, a woman named Kat Cohen, 585 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 2: who runs a company called Ivy Wise. Emmy notes on 586 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 2: doctor Kat's website that she does some pro bono work, 587 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 2: so she does what she's always done. She asks for help, 588 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 2: and this time she gets it. Doctor Kat takes Emmy on. 589 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: She believes in her. Emmy begins the college application process, 590 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 2: applying pretty much exclusively to Ivy League universities. But then 591 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: the thin letters of rejection begin to drift in, and 592 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 2: when she receives these we regret to inform you letters, 593 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 2: she resorts to old behaviors. She starts cutting herself again. 594 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: When I applied to college, I had so much riding 595 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: on the decisions. I thought, if I get in, my 596 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: life is going to be totally different. 597 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to have stability. 598 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: I'm going to continue to be in this place free 599 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: from my mom's influence, where I can be myself and 600 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: I can be stable. And so when I applied to 601 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: Yale early and then I was rejected, I was completely 602 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: crushed because I had really let myself hope that the 603 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: waiting would be over and that my future would be set. 604 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: It became clear that things were not going to be 605 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: that easy for me. And so I did the only 606 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: thing that I could think of, and I went and 607 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: I taught myself. And I hadn't done it for a 608 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: year and a half at that point, but I reverted 609 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: to it and it made me feel calm, And then 610 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: I also felt dumb. I felt like it was a 611 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: melodramatic thing to do. 612 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 2: Emmy ends up completely revising her applications and essays to 613 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: better reflect her truth. She writes what is known in 614 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 2: the world of academic admissions as a letter of extenuating circumstances. 615 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: Writing my college applications felt like the hardest thing that I. 616 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 3: Had ever done. 617 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: Doctor Kat told me that I had to be completely 618 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: straightforward with colleges about my parents, about what they did, 619 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: about my background, and I didn't even know where to 620 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: art because even though I had been through all of 621 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: this therapy and quote unquote treatment, I had never really 622 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: talked frankly about my parents' problems. It was always I'm 623 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: the problem, or I did something bad and I need 624 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: to confess. 625 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 3: And so I found myself trying. 626 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: To write these essays basically telling colleges everything I had 627 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: ever done wrong because I didn't have another model for 628 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: looking at the world, and doctor Kat told me, you 629 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: have to just say I was in foster care, I 630 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: was sleeping in my car during school breaks, I was homeless, 631 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: and that felt like such a betrayal to my parents. 632 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: It felt like, even though it was actually accurate, it 633 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: felt untrue because I was so used to taking responsibility 634 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: that laying out what had happened to me just felt 635 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: completely wrong. But at the same time, I knew that 636 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,760 Speaker 1: my future depended on it, so I. 637 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 3: Really had no choice but to do it. 638 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: After a few excruciating months of waiting, not being able 639 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: to sleep, really engaging in bad habits, I finally on 640 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:37,760 Speaker 1: April first, twenty ten, got the email from Harvard saying 641 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 1: that I had gotten in. I was at the public 642 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: library on spring break, all alone, and my scream just 643 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: builled up the atrium of the library and I ran outside, just. 644 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 3: Screaming yes, yes, yes, yes. 645 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: And I knew that my life was going to change, 646 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: even though I could only begin to imagine the ways 647 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,240 Speaker 1: that that it would be. After I graduated from Harvard, 648 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: I was working as a software engineer at Google, and 649 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: I lived in Silicon Valley and then in New York 650 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: with a guy that I met while I was an intern. 651 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 3: His name is Byron, and he was one of the few. 652 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: People who I told about my past, only really the 653 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: broad stroke, but he still loved me, and I had 654 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: been really worried that I wasn't going to be able. 655 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 3: To have a normal relationship. 656 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: But we were really happy together and set up our 657 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: first apartment together in Manhattan, which had been a dream 658 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: of mine for years. 659 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 3: And I was getting promoted at work. 660 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: And just had the type of life that I had 661 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: fantasized about when I was a teenager and that I 662 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: never really believed could be mine or that I could 663 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: be capable of enjoying. 664 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 2: And where was your mother during this period of time. 665 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:30,360 Speaker 1: My mom texted me a lot, especially once Tyne and 666 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: I got engaged. She took it upon herself to help 667 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: with our wedding by buying me things like, you know, 668 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: two thousand candles for a daytime wedding in a venue 669 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: that didn't allow eplain. Her texts were super well meaning, 670 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,320 Speaker 1: but they really highlighted for me all that we hadn't 671 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: been talking about, both between us and for me. 672 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,720 Speaker 3: And other people in my life. 673 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: And so, six weeks before the wedding, Byron and I 674 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: were going out to Minnesota to finalize our preparations, and 675 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: Byron's parents decided that they were going to come out 676 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: to because they wanted to meet my mom. 677 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 3: And that was. 678 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: When I realized, you know, maybe I needed to tell 679 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 1: them something, because even though I'd been dating Byron for 680 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,720 Speaker 1: four years and spent all those holidays with his family, 681 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,760 Speaker 1: I had only told them that I went to boarding school, 682 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: and that was really all that they knew about my past. 683 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 2: And Byron as well. 684 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: Byron knew a little bit more. He knew that I 685 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: had been in foster care and that I had self harmed, 686 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 1: but he didn't really know all the details either, and 687 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: so suddenly I was confronted with the decision of how 688 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: much am I going to tell these people in my 689 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: life and how are they going to treat me after 690 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: they know. I called Iron's mom before our parents met, 691 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: and I did tell her that my mom was a 692 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: hoarder and that I'd been with foster care. And when 693 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: she came to meet them, it went as well as 694 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: it possibly could have, but I was really shaken by 695 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: the experience. I felt like, you know, there's more there 696 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: that I'm not talking about, and I wanted more than 697 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: anything to have a normal relationship with my mom. I 698 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: still hadn't spoken to Michelle in many, many years, like 699 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: since I was eleven, and I had come to accept 700 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: that Michelle we couldn't really be in contact. So my 701 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: mom almost the one the one parent that I still. 702 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 3: Had, and I. 703 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: Had been in denial about the nature of our relationship 704 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: until I really got married and started to have this 705 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,280 Speaker 1: this family of my own and had someone who could 706 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: notice how I felt after my mom texted me or 707 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: after our rare phone calls, and could see the way 708 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: that all that we weren't talking about was weighing me down. 709 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 3: Even so many. 710 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: Years later, about a year after I got married, I 711 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 1: started calling my mom and asking to talk about what 712 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:52,719 Speaker 1: she remembered, and I really believed that she would tell 713 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: me her set of the story and we would find 714 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: a middle ground that we could agree on and that 715 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: would be kind of the foundation for our relationship moving forward. 716 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 3: One evening, I called. 717 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: Her and I asked her about a family therapy session 718 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 1: that we'd had back when I was an eating disorder treatment, 719 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: and she immediately shut it down and said that never happened. 720 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 3: We never had family therapy there. It's impossible. 721 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: And I was left totally stunned because I remembered this 722 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:32,760 Speaker 1: conversation so clearly, where she had told the therapist Emmy's 723 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: really lost her breath and that that was what concerned 724 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,280 Speaker 1: her about my eating disorder. And it was so shocking. 725 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,920 Speaker 1: It felt like this isn't the kind of thing that 726 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 1: I would make up. But I found myself questioning my 727 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: memory and my sense of reality. But I was an adult, 728 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: and I had tools at my disposal that I hadn't 729 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: had when I was a teenager, and I was able 730 00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: to get the insurance billing statements from my health insurance 731 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,280 Speaker 1: company back then and find the receipt for the therapy 732 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: appointments that matched up with what I remembered, and that 733 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:16,359 Speaker 1: was how far I had to go in order to 734 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: convince myself that my memory was accurate. And my mom 735 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: refused to see my side of things or acknowledge that 736 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: she could be wrong or that things could happen that 737 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: she didn't remember. And I found as I was trying 738 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: to talk about these very real memories that had shaped 739 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: my life, that she was unwilling to engage. 740 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 3: After I brought up some of. 741 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 1: These things, my mom would punish me with her silence, 742 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: sometimes not messaging me for months at a time. 743 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 3: Once I started talking to other people from my. 744 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,399 Speaker 1: Past, I learned so much many things that had been 745 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 1: kept from me When I was a teenager. I had 746 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,359 Speaker 1: assumed that my brother and sister in law didn't want 747 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: to see me because they thought that I was crazy 748 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,880 Speaker 1: and was bad influence on their kids, and meeting up 749 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: with them and asking them was one of the hardest conversations. 750 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,359 Speaker 3: That I've ever had, and I. 751 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 1: Was totally stunned when they told me that they tried 752 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: to have me move in with them instead of going 753 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: into fostercare. They had told my mom that they had 754 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: an extra bedroom My sister in law was a stay 755 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: at home mom of two boys, and they had plenty 756 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: of space and room in their family, and my mom. 757 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 3: Completely goes to them. 758 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: Kinship placements, where kids live with relatives are really common 759 00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:01,360 Speaker 1: in foster care, and most eight and the federal government 760 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: have laws that stayd kids have a right with the 761 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,759 Speaker 1: family first. But in my case, even though everyone knew 762 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: that I had an older brother, nobody talked to him, 763 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 1: and I discovered that there were other opportunities as well. 764 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,839 Speaker 1: I had other family members who, when they eventually learned 765 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,719 Speaker 1: about what was going on, expressed so much sadness that 766 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,160 Speaker 1: they hadn't known back then because they also had. 767 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 3: Extra room in their house. 768 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: And I had a mentor who was really essential to 769 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,360 Speaker 1: my life in high school, and I learned that even 770 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 1: she had tried to take me in. 771 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,399 Speaker 3: In her case it wouldn't work out. 772 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,360 Speaker 1: But she had also filed multiple maltreatment reports with the 773 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 1: Kinnecan County and it seemed like nothing had been done 774 00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:58,439 Speaker 1: about them. 775 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,919 Speaker 3: This really shook my world because even as an adult. 776 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: I had been living with this idea that I was 777 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:11,239 Speaker 1: bad and I was the problem, and then I was 778 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: living with this really pessimistic idea that the way things 779 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,839 Speaker 1: unfolded for me was really the only way that they 780 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: could have happened, and there was no use being upset 781 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,720 Speaker 1: because there were no better alternatives. 782 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,959 Speaker 3: But then all of that. 783 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:34,719 Speaker 1: Was challenged, and I was forced to confront how, you know, 784 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,160 Speaker 1: for all the ways that my mom loved me, she 785 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: had made decisions that prevented me from having a relatively 786 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:50,360 Speaker 1: normal adolescent surrounded by my family. That was really, really hard, 787 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 1: but it also helped me forgive myself for the suffering 788 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,120 Speaker 1: that I went through as a teenager and some of 789 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 1: the unhealthy decisions that I made, and stop seeing myself 790 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,239 Speaker 1: as responsible for what happened when I was a kid, 791 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: and instead blamed the systems that really failed me and 792 00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 1: my family for keeping these secrets that prevented me from 793 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: getting help. 794 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,160 Speaker 2: Here's Emmy reading from her moving memoir, A powerful testament 795 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 2: to the tenacity that allows us to overcome secrets and 796 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:36,760 Speaker 2: betrayals and instead of turning against ourselves, facing outward bravely 797 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 2: and meeting our true selves in the wider world. 798 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,240 Speaker 1: The more I researched, the more I realized how little 799 00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: I understood about my own adoleccums as a teenager. I'd 800 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 1: only known what I was told, and many things had 801 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,080 Speaker 1: been kept from me. In the absence of all the 802 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,760 Speaker 1: facts and any larger context in which to understand them, 803 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,000 Speaker 1: I felt responsible for everything that transpire. Instead of making 804 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,600 Speaker 1: a life that would redeem the past an impossible feat, I. 805 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,359 Speaker 3: Thought out a life I could live with. 806 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,959 Speaker 1: For the first time, I felt lucky for the little things, 807 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,600 Speaker 1: to wake up in the morning in my own bed, 808 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,680 Speaker 1: to eat breakfast, to do my work. It was no 809 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,760 Speaker 1: longer so important to me to choose something great because 810 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,080 Speaker 1: I was happy to be alive, which. 811 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,200 Speaker 3: Had seemed impossible and tenuous. 812 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,560 Speaker 1: I became grateful for the passing of time, each milestone 813 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,400 Speaker 1: that brings me away from then into now, my marriage, 814 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,239 Speaker 1: buying an apartment, changing jobs one day, a child our own, 815 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,280 Speaker 1: for whom I swear I will not make the same mistake, 816 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,200 Speaker 1: so I know a fall short sum regard. On my wall, 817 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,680 Speaker 1: I have a poster that always reminds me of when 818 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,120 Speaker 1: I was growing up. A girl stares out the window 819 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: at a city while a plane crosses. 820 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 3: In front of the moon. 821 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,239 Speaker 1: Every time I see it, I say a prayer of 822 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: gratitude for my younger felt for delivering me here into 823 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,359 Speaker 1: adulthood where I can bake biope with what I learned 824 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: along the way. 825 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 2: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly Zacur is 826 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,880 Speaker 2: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 827 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,120 Speaker 2: If you have a family secret you'd like to share, 828 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 2: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 829 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,399 Speaker 2: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 830 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 2: eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also 831 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder. And if you'd 832 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,040 Speaker 2: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 833 00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,319 Speaker 2: check out my memoir Inheritance. 834 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,480 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple 835 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 3: Podcasts 836 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,240 Speaker 4: Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.