1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from dot 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: com even everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm Jonathan 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: Strickland and I'm joined today by a special guest host, 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. Josie, Hello, Hi. You totally cannot follow instructions. 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: I said hello and you said hi. Joe, of course 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: is one of my co hosts on another show, Forward Thinking, 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: And so Joe, I am so thankful you could join 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: me here today. Lauren, of course, is out on vacation 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: right now. So Joe kindly agreed to step in. And 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 1: I gave Joe the the the the ability to choose 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: whatever topic he wanted to pick, as long as it 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: wasn't something that we had, you know, covered extensively in 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: tech stuff in the past. So, Joe, what would you 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: like to talk about? Well, um, on Forward Thinking, we 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: usually talk about the future or another and um, so 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: I want it to go in completely the opposite direction 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: and talk about the technology of the past. And I 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: started thinking, I wonder, what's the oldest computer that we 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: know about? Oh, I got you. So we're talking nineteen 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: forty six with any ac right, that computer that you 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: would end up programming with lots of plugs and switches. 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: Not at all. Wow, No, so wait are you you're 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: saying it's older than that? Older? Okay? All right, well fine, 24 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: how about the ninety two that's the Tennis soft Berry 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: Computer or ABC, which was built at Iowa State College 26 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: which now university obviously, but it was there was a 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,279 Speaker 1: patent dispute actually, that was decided in the United States 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: government about whether any AC or the ABC computer were first, 29 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: and ultimately they said that it uh, you could not 30 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: have anyone to claim they were the ones to invent 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: the computer. That's the first one, right, ABC computer. Okay, alright, 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: N one. We're starting to get a little fuzzy here, 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: but all right. So Conrad Zeus builds the Z three 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: computer and that was also the same year when the 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: first BOMBA was built, you know, one of the devices 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: meant to help decrypt German messages. That's it, right, alright. 37 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Ninety nine George Stibbitts completes the complex number calculator, the 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: c n C at Bell Telephone Laboratories. We just finished 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: talking about Bell Labs. This has got to be it. 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: And even in the first demonstration he used teletype so 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: that he could program this remotely. Over special telephone line. 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: So it was the first remote computer as well. So 43 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: that's it, right, I think you need to think less electricity, Fine, Fine, 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: eight thirty seven. The analytical Engine. Charles Babbage, he designs this, 45 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: never finishes it in his lifetime. But of course that 46 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: is the device that Ada Lovelace, the Enchantress of numbers, 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: had possibly even created computer programs for algorithms where she 48 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: envisioned a time where you could encode things like music 49 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: and poetry into mathematics. That's it, the analytical engine. Okay, 50 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: so we're gonna talk about that. You know, you're you're 51 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: about two years off, say what not? Not about almost? Okay, 52 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: so what are you talking about? I'm talking about something 53 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: that is called the antique antique antique. Oh, we're gonna 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: have this problem the whole time. The anti Cithera message, Yes, 55 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: the anti Cithera mechanism or also known as the antikathera mechanism. Yeah, 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: it all depends on the r which pronunciation you follow. 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: Antiquithera seems to be fairly commonplace. So we're gonna go 58 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: ahead and use that one and probably switch off without 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: even thinking about it. All right, I know a little 60 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: bit about this. But I guess before we talk about 61 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: this mechanism, maybe we need to say what the heck 62 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: is Anti Cithera. For anyone who is not familiar with 63 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: the geography of Greece, you may not know this. This 64 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: refers to a place. Yeah, it's an island in the 65 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: Mediterranean Sea. And if you um, if you imagine you're 66 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: looking at the Mediterranean, it's the small island that's between 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: Crete to the south and the Peloponnesian Peninsula up to 68 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: the north, so the mainland of Greece, and it's right 69 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: there in the middle. Um, there's a bigger island just 70 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: called Cythera, and this is a smaller one offset from it, 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: called Anti So if Antikithera and Kythera were to collide, 72 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: it would just destroy one another. Total positronic revers Yeah, 73 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: tell him about the twinkie. So, you know, joking aside. 74 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: Does that mean that this is where that mechanism was 75 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: was made? Um? No, probably not. This is where the 76 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: mechanism was discovered. It got its name, gotcha. So someone 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: was walking around Anti Cithera one day and they stubbed 78 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: their toe and oh what's this and found the world's 79 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: oldest computer. No, it's much creepier. Um. Okay, So the 80 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: story goes like this, around the year nineteen hundred, there 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: was a group of sponge divers who were off the 82 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: coast of Antikythera, and they were doing their diving and 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: guess whatever sponge divers do, they were gathering sponges, gathering 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: sponges to wash all their dishes exactly. Um. So they 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: were doing their thing. But apparently one of the divers 86 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: came up to the surface and he was like, guys, 87 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: there are dead women lying all over the bottom of 88 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: the ocean. There's a bunch of naked dead ladies at 89 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, sounds creepy. But statos. Yeah, Actually, 90 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: what he was seeing were statues. There were bronze and 91 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: marble statues that were part of the payload of a 92 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: almost well, I guess about exactly two year old ship 93 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: wreck of a ship that was a Roman ship, a 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: large Roman ship carrying a lot of cargo, much of 95 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: it probably stolen or looted cargo. Right, we're talking at 96 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: an era just around the time when the Romans were 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: beginning to uh, let's say, incorporate the Hellenistic societies into 98 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: their empire. Course, so it had all these Greek artifacts 99 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: on it and luxury items, like really expensive stuff in 100 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: the Greek world. Uh. Yeah. And so the idea is, 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what the ship was doing. What 102 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: we think it was probably a ship that was returning 103 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: to Rome from some destination uh in the Greek world. 104 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: And so there are a lot of these Greek artifacts, 105 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: including currency. Uh. They had like you said, statues, they 106 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: had lots of pottery, um, and they had this this device, 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: which was well, at first it was just a lump, 108 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: right yeah, right, yeah, first. Well, and of course it 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: didn't get that much attention early on because there was 110 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: so much other stuff down there in that shipwreck. Right, 111 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: So the people who went into really investigate the shipwreck 112 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: and take a look and see what was going on, 113 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: they didn't necessarily realize that there was something truly special, 114 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: something that was beyond just uh special from an artistic 115 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: merit point of view, but could tell us a lot 116 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: about how much the ancient Greeks knew about craftsmanship, about astronomy, 117 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: about math, all of these things we've become apparent, but 118 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: only a hundred years later, right after the explorer. So 119 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: so it it's it's forgotten for two thousand years essentially, 120 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: and then for another hundred years we don't really know 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: what it is. So it's kind of this lump of 122 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: corroded bronze inside what what used to be a wooden 123 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: box essentially disintegrated. Yeah, so there's like there's one big 124 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: remaining lump, but they're about eighty two fragments in total, right, 125 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: So one of those fragments, the main fragment, has the 126 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: vast majority of the what we know of as the 127 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: inner workings of whatever this device was supposed to be. 128 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: And we know a lot more about now, but don't 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: want to ruin the surprise, no, But so basically we 130 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: can say like what it was made of. So what 131 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: they think now is, Okay, this looks like it was 132 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: some kind of collection of bronze gears inside of a 133 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: wooden casing. Yeah. In fact, at first they thought it 134 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: might only be just one gear that somehow was loose 135 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: from something else, and then they realized, no, there's actually 136 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: several gears here, but it's all corroded together. Yeah, it's 137 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of like a fused into a big bottom 138 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: of the ocean, snotball, Yeah, exactly. That's very accurate. Um. 139 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: But so if you can imagine I would call like 140 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: imagine a mid sized dictionary, not like a pocket dictionary, 141 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: but also not that huge one from the library that 142 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: you couldn't see it a pedestal, like a like a 143 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: large hardback dictionary. Um. And it's got a wooden casing, 144 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: so you could open that casing up and then inside 145 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: you've got this corroded mass that uh, that is all 146 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: this gear formation. Now, of course the wooden casing doesn't 147 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: really remain except in rotted fragmentary form. Um. But that's 148 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: the basic mechanism we're dealing with. And if you start 149 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: to look at it, you would see this one big 150 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: gear um, but you might wonder what does this thing do? Yeah? 151 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: And beyond that, I mean, before we even get to that, 152 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: like how old is this thing? Oh? Yeah, because I 153 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: mean we we figured that the shipwreck happens sometime around 154 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: eighty five b c. E before common eras because mostly 155 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: because of the dates that we found and I say we, 156 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: but the explorers found on the currency. Yeah. You know, 157 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: sometimes Joe and I we get we get tired of 158 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: working on stuff. Before thinking we pop out to the 159 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: Greek islands and then just go well skin diving, yeah, 160 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, and X, by the way does mark the 161 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: spot now, but we by dating things like the currency, 162 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: they have sort of narrowed the ranged around eighty five 163 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: b C. But that that doesn't necessarily mean that's how 164 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: old the device is. No, they think that the device 165 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: is older than the wreck, so it wasn't built like 166 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: right before that. It's generally dated between a hundred and 167 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty b C. So it's thought of 168 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: as a second century b c e device, right, So 169 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: so it is an ancient device. Uh, that seems to 170 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: be about how old it is. Uh, we've got some 171 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: ideas of where it may have come from. There were some, No, 172 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: we don't we don't have any The instruction manual for 173 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: this device was not anywhere to be found. It was 174 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: not on the glove compartment of this shipwreck, so we 175 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: can't be absolutely certain. Uh. There's some speculation that maybe 176 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: it was the island of Rhodes, which was known for 177 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: its scholarship and also it's craftsmanship. But there are some 178 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: other options as well that we can talk about. But 179 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: beyond that, Um, you know, we've talked about what was 180 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: made of we talked about how old it was. But yeah, 181 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: what what did this thing do? And at first it 182 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: was a real mystery. In fact, for like we said, 183 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: like a century, it was a mystery. We just didn't 184 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: have enough information to be able to determine. We had 185 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: some wild guests. There were people who made some good guesses, 186 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: but they didn't know the full extent yet. Um, and 187 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: that they didn't realize initially how awesome this thing was. 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: You know, we can make an argument that this is 189 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: the oldest computer, which obviously means that it has to 190 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: do more than just have some inner work, inner working 191 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: gears that moves smoothly. It has to do something beyond that, 192 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: because otherwise anything that was reliant on gears and clockwork 193 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: you could call a computer. But we'll get into exactly 194 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: what it is that this thing did. That kind of 195 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: makes us consider it more of a computer device and 196 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: analog computer than some sort of interesting clockwork. Right. So, um, 197 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: but in general, what we understand it to have been 198 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: able to do, and in fact, we understand a lot 199 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: more about it in very recent years than we had 200 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: for the century leading up to it. Oh well, I'd 201 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: say now we've basically had a slam dunk in this one. 202 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: Recent recent revelations have shown us, Oh, this is pretty 203 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: much exactly what it is, Yeah, which is phenomenal when 204 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: you think of how badly and repair this thing was. 205 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: But but ultimately what it does is it's it's a 206 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: device that not only tracks celestial events and the movement 207 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: of celestial bodies in relation to our perspective here on Earth, 208 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: it also predicts them. So in other words, you not 209 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: only can you can you keep track of what's going on, 210 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: and it could give you an indication of where you 211 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: would need to look in the sky if you wanted 212 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: to see something like Mars. It also would tell you that, oh, 213 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: on this particular date, you will have a full solar eclipse. 214 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: It's kind of cool, yeah. In other words, an astronomical 215 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: calculatory UM. And so what it would do is it 216 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: would have a position of the Earth and then UM 217 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: by moving the hand crank, which which no longer exists, 218 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: but that's that's what figure. It was a hand crank 219 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: that that provided the the kinetic energy to make everything turn. 220 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: But by moving that you could see at the same time, 221 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: based on a projected date in the future, the positions 222 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: of the Sun of the Moon. UM probably of the 223 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: planets we don't know. The planet gears are missing, probably 224 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: at least the plants that the Greeks knew about, which 225 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: included the probably not the planet probably not the we 226 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: don't think, well, not Neptune Uranus or or if you 227 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: want to be kind, Pluto. Um. They they had identified 228 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: as far out as Saturn. Now, if in fact, we 229 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: were to find evidence that it included these other planets 230 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: as well, that, as far as we know, they didn't 231 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: know about, then that would make the third part of 232 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: our conversation to get a little more interesting. It also 233 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: had yeah, as you said, an eclipse prediction dial uh, 234 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: and that's really cool. Uh. And it also predicted cultural events. 235 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: So that's like the Olympiad, right, because you had a 236 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: schedule of when that would take place, and so by 237 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: plotting it against this device and actually inscribing it on 238 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: the device, you could, in a factor of the end, 239 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: you could see what the what the celestial events were 240 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: going to be at a planned future event that way, 241 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: which is kind of handy. Um. But we'll talk specifically. 242 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: We need to really get into the nitty gritty of 243 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: how this is possible, and then we'll conclude at the 244 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: end talking about how we know all of this stuff, because, 245 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: as you're gonna learn, it's really complicated to figure out 246 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: how a device works if you can't actually visualize all 247 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: the gears when you first get hold of it. Before 248 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: we get into that conversation, let's take a quick break 249 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. So we've got a cool sponsor today, 250 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: Trunk Club. This is a really interesting service. 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The stylist talk to me, got my measurements, 261 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: my my clothing sizes, and started looking around for stuff 262 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: that I normally wouldn't shop for myself, and ended up 263 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: picking up some great investment pieces for me to look at. 264 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: And here's how it works. They they have. You tell 265 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: them when you want a trunk sent to you, and 266 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: then they'll send you the trunk. They pay for the shipping. 267 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: You take a look, you see what you like, You 268 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: keep what you like, You send back anything else you 269 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: don't like in the same box. They give you a 270 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: return shipping label, so you don't have to pay for that, 271 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: and you just pay for whatever it is you keep, 272 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: and it's not a subscription service. You just do this 273 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: whenever you want to get some new awesome clothing. So 274 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: go to www dot trunk club dot com and check 275 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: it out. All right, we're back. So let's talk about 276 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: how this device actually tracked celestial events. Okay, so we 277 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: we know they're all these gears. There's a hand cranky turn. 278 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: It moves things forwards that you can look at what 279 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: the celestial conditions are on any given date, or you 280 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: can even advance it so that you can look for 281 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: a specific celestial event. Let's say you're looking specifically for 282 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: when is the next eclipse going to occur? So you're 283 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: not looking to see what the celestial scott what the 284 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: sky is going to look like, um three months from now, 285 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: You just want to know when the next eclipse is 286 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: you could advance the handle from your date and keep 287 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: doing it until you saw the eclipse information come up, 288 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: and then compare that, see what the date is on 289 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: the other part of the indicator. And we'll talk about 290 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: all the different dials. This would be indicated by a dial, 291 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: so it's like it's like an analog clock face. You 292 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: would be spinning around a point to let you know 293 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: when this is coming exactly, and then you could say, oh, 294 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: all right, so the next eclipse is in you know, 295 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, three months and two weeks from now or whatever. 296 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: And uh so there's a lot of different ways you 297 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: could use this. Well, um, there were about thirty thirty 298 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: one gears that we know of, probably at least more 299 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: or at least thirty, probably more. So it's i think 300 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: hypothesized that there were more to deal with the movement 301 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: of the planet that that's just lost. And you know, 302 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: it's not a surprise because again, like I said, when 303 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: we call it bad repair, I mean you're you think 304 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: about this. This is like essentially the imagine a clock 305 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: that's been fused into one piece. I mean an old 306 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: style gear clock fused into one piece. That's kind of 307 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: and it's it's opaque, so you can't see these gears 308 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: that are on the inside just with the naked eye. 309 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: But we'll get into how we figured more about this 310 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: in a little bit. But so you had all these 311 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: different dials that would mark different events, uh and different 312 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: time spans. Right, So you would have a dial that 313 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: would be set up for uh, for just regular keeping 314 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: of of a calendar year. But there were also dials 315 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: that were more attuned to specific celestial cycles. So for example, 316 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: there might be a nineteen year cycle that's represented by 317 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: one dial, another one had i I think a seventy 318 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: five year dial, And these dials were to refer to 319 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: things that patterns that would repeat once you hit those 320 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: time frames, so like every nineteen years, this one set 321 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: of pattern would repeat itself. So that's why they have 322 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: these different dials to indicate exactly what's happening at exactly 323 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: what time. UH. What I loved was the idea that 324 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: there was one gear specifically devoted to showing the phase 325 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: of the moon. So not only would you see the 326 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: position of the moon on any given date, but you 327 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: would also see what phase it was in, whether it 328 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: was waxing or waning, a new moon, full moon, whatever, 329 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: and and uh, I really thought that was very clever. 330 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, you essentially either either refer to the dates 331 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: and look at the celestial events to compare the two, 332 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: or you had said it so that you would look 333 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: at a specific configuration of the celestial body and then 334 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: look at what date corresponded to it. It's um kind 335 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: of amazing to imagine the complex planning and craftsmanship that 336 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: went into a machine like this, because, um, when you 337 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: start thinking about it, Okay, say somebody set you down 338 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: and told you to try to build something like this, 339 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: and you had you know, it was in book test. 340 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: You knew what time frame all these celestial events would 341 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: occur in. How would you do it? Yeah, I mean God, 342 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: so you would have some kind of figure out the 343 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: relationships between the sizes of gears um and the way 344 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: they would interlock to create fractional relationships between of the 345 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: movements of all the different bodies at the same time. 346 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: And keep in mind that if this thing is reflecting 347 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: say planets and stuff like that, well, from a geocentric 348 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: point of view, the movement of the planets is not 349 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: just a simple circle. I mean you see them, they 350 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: persiss and then they go backwards and all of these 351 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: things exactly. So if you and there's a fellow named 352 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Michael T. Wright who built a replica of this device, 353 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: and we'll talk more about him probably in a bit, 354 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: but he there's a great video that demonstrates him using 355 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: this machine to show the movement of these different elements 356 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: and sometimes you see them moving kind of backword compared 357 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: to other elements, and you think, wow, the gears have 358 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: to account for that too. The gears have to be 359 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: able to do very complex movements of these uh, these 360 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: these arms that are on these dials in order to 361 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: reflect what is really happening. And while the model itself 362 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: uh does depict a geocentric view of celestial bodies, we 363 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: can't be sure that the person who built it necessarily 364 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: ascribed necessarily ascribed to a geocentric philosophy. Oh, that's certainly true, 365 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: because for the devices function I mean it was, it 366 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: was functionally geocentric, right, because we're from exactly, even if 367 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: the person who made it actually thought the Earth went 368 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: around the Sun, it would still look the same pretty much. 369 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: Because if you're reflecting how the world, how the how 370 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: the celestial you know, elements look compared to being on 371 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: the Earth, it makes no sense to make it anything 372 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: other than geocentric. So the heliocentric theories had been placed 373 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: ahead of when we think this device was made. So 374 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: it's possible we don't know because there were still people 375 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: who who's ascribed to a geocentric worldview. I that was dominant, Yeah, 376 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: because because it was similar to what we would see 377 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: centuries later, where to propose such a thing as a 378 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: helos helio centric view would mean that you might suffer 379 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of let's say, you might get ostracized 380 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: with extreme prejudice. People didn't like here in that. Yeah, 381 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: So anyway, you know, it does look like it was 382 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: going to show you not only the Sun and Moon's movements, 383 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: which is already complex enough because they don't move at 384 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: the same you know rate or you know, they changed positions, 385 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: uh differently relative to one another. Uh. Then to throw 386 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: in the other planets makes that or the plants that 387 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: the Greeks knew about makes it even more complex. So 388 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: here's the question, does this count as a computer? I 389 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: would say absolutely. I would say so too, And I've 390 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: got a little argument here. Tell me what you think 391 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: about so um, I'd say the basic definition of a 392 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: computer a lot of times it's included that it's electronic. 393 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: But let's take that part out and say, well, whether 394 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: or not it's electronic. Um, a computer is like an 395 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: interactive machine that can and these words often come up, store, retrieve, 396 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: and process data. That's fair. Um, So it's like input, 397 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: output and processing and storage. Yeah. I always think of 398 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: it as something that can can take input, put it 399 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: through some form of algorithm, meaning a set of rules, 400 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: and then give you output on the other side. And 401 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: it's predictable. It's going to do that the same way. Like, 402 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: assuming that you put in the same input and you're 403 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: running it through the same algorithm, you're always going to 404 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: get the same output. Okay, so both definitions work very 405 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: well together. Yeah, I'd say the biggest distinction is that 406 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: today's computers we think of as being general use. So 407 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: you you have hardware that can compute, but you've also 408 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: got software to boss the hardware around, so it can 409 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: tell it to compute in different ways. Right, So in 410 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: that way, you can have a single machine allow you 411 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: to do Excel spreadsheets or play you know, uh, first 412 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: person shooter game. Right, But obviously without electronics, this uh, 413 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: this ancient computer doesn't have software, it just has hardware. 414 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: Or it's like thinking about a computer that can only 415 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: run one program, which is not that difficult to imagine. 416 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you think of calculators as 417 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: a subset of computers, calculators like your basic calculator. I'm 418 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: not talking about your super crazy calculators that have apps 419 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: on them and everything, but your basic calculator does basic 420 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: calculator functions. It's, you know, again, taking that input, putting 421 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: it through an algorithm, some sort of mathematical process, and 422 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: you get an output similar to this device. Yeah, so 423 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: this device, it's like a computer that only has one job, 424 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: but within that job, I think it's definitely worth saying 425 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: it's a computer because its stores data. So the relationships 426 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: between the astron comical pathways are represented by the mechanical 427 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: math that's done between the teeth and the gears. So 428 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: like the gear sizes themselves are sort of storing that data. 429 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: Sure um. And then it takes input. You turn the 430 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: hand crank to give it the input of the date 431 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: you want to calculate, and then it gives you output. 432 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: It's got the dials that reflect the computed values of 433 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: the of what you're looking for and even as I 434 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: have said before, you could do it the other way, 435 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: where you keep turning the dial until you get the 436 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: configuration you were interested in and then you look at 437 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: the date. So it works in either sense, and uh, 438 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal. I mean, it's when you think about how 439 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: precise you have to be to make sure you get this, 440 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: and not only that, but just the huge amount of 441 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: information you have to have at your disposal to even 442 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: start in the craftsmanship of this thing. Because the Greeks 443 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: had a lot of of information about astronomy, some of 444 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: it they got from the Babylonians, so the Babylonians were 445 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: known as very very much interested in astronomy. The Greeks 446 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: were as well, and so they had to have had 447 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: all this observation data that they had, the things that 448 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: they had observed about the movement of celestial objects in 449 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: the sky and how those patterns would arise, in order 450 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: for them to plan that out into a mechanical device. 451 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: And that to me is really amazing because you're not 452 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: talking about, oh, you know, every four weeks, this one 453 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: event happens. Now, some of these cycles, like I said, 454 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: are incredibly long. You had a nineteen year cycle, you 455 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: had a seventy six year cycle, you had a fifty 456 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: four year cycle. All of these were taken into account 457 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: to explain the movement of celestial objects in various ways, 458 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: whether it's a solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse, or 459 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: that you get both a lunar and a solar eclipse 460 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: within a certain amount of time. Uh, not to mention 461 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: the movement of the other planets. That's a lot of 462 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: information that you have to have compiled before you ever 463 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: cut into a sheet of bronze. Uh. Yes, it's certainly 464 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: is and and even harder is imagining how you would 465 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: begin to compute that data. Yeah, I mean nobody. Um well, 466 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: actually this is a good question. Um, had anybody ever 467 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: made anything like this before? Obviously we don't know for sure, 468 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: right well, we don't have evidence this is the earliest 469 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: existing device. In fact, we don't have any other devices 470 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: to point to. Uh. And let's be clear when we're 471 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: calling it the earliest known computer, that that doesn't mean 472 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: we think that there's nothing that like this that could 473 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: have come before it. That just means the it's the 474 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: earliest one that we have, so and we don't have 475 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: any others. It's not like, there are you know, twenty 476 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: other examples of this. In fact, if you want to 477 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: look at for another object that's as complex as this one, 478 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: you have to go about fifteen hundred years further into 479 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: the early Renaissance and look at the Middle East, China, 480 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: and Europe for devices that start to equal this level 481 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: of complexity. However, these historians of chanical engineering, they say 482 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff doesn't show up until late medieval 483 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: clockwork at the earliest. So when you take that into account, 484 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: you think, well, you know, is this is this an anomaly? 485 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: Is it a one off site some mad genius come 486 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: up with us? But if you if you were to 487 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: actually carefully examine those gears, and we'll talk more about 488 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: how people have done that over the last decade or so, 489 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: if you were to very carefully examine them, you would 490 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: see that they appear to have been made flawlessly, like 491 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: there were no mistakes. Uh. You know, a lot of 492 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: experts have said that if you were to build, say 493 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: a clock, and it's your first clock, it may be 494 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: a functional clock, but if you were to look at 495 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: the clockwork, you might see where there were mistakes that 496 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: were made and then corrected for later on. There, there's 497 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: no evidence of that in this device, which suggests that 498 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: whoever built it had done it at least a few 499 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: times before to perfect the whole process before building another one. Yeah, 500 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: and combine with the fact that this thing is just 501 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: so smart that it suggests it was probably not the 502 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: only one of its kind. It probably came from a 503 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: line of similar devices, maybe of advancing complexity. And you 504 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: might think, well, if this is the case where the 505 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: heck is everything else and well, some of it could 506 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: just be lost or destroyed. And also being made out 507 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: of bronze means that it's a valuable resource which occasionally 508 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: for other purposes, like I don't know, war, you would 509 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: melt down so that you could use it for other stuff. Yeah, 510 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean, think about what we're talking about the first 511 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: and second century b C. In the Hellenistic world. I mean, 512 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: it's it's a time when stuff might have gotten grabbed 513 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: and taken to another place, melted down, or just lost, 514 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: just like just like this one was lost. There's stuff 515 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: going on if you look at uh, and we should 516 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: mention this stuff you missed In History Class Sister podcast 517 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: they did an episode on this same topic. Fantastic episode, 518 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: highly recommended you should definitely go listen to it. Um. 519 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: But one of the things they pointed out was that 520 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: if you look at bronze statues from that era, they're very, 521 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: very few of them, and I think like nine out 522 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: of ten came from shipwrecks because the ones that were 523 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: left on land, more frequently than not, had been melted 524 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: down for other purposes. So it's it's one of those 525 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: There was not necessarily a sense of permanency in the 526 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: time of the world. Okay, so we don't have, like, 527 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: in terms of archaeology, another device like this from the time. 528 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: Has anybody ever described a device like this from the time? Uh, 529 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: that's a good question. Do you have any actual information 530 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: on that? Because when I was looking for it, I 531 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: was it seemed to me at the time that everyone 532 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: was absolutely shocked by this device, because it didn't seem 533 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: to have any kind of shock, shocked to the point 534 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: where they were wondering if it was perhaps a hoax, 535 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: that maybe someone had planted this thing and it was 536 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: a fake. But it may be that there are sources 537 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm I'm aware of. Do you know any I think 538 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: there are ancient descriptions of ore ries. Okay, So those 539 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: are wouldn't be exactly like this, but sort of ancient 540 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: models of the movement of the Planet's interesting. So it Yeah, 541 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: and of course we do know that there were philosophers 542 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: who had described, uh the very motions that this device enacted, 543 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: that you know they were they were just describing it 544 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: for scholarly purposes, and this device would show that in 545 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: action if you were to move the handle. Well, here's 546 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: an interesting question. Who built this thing? Yeah? Where did 547 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: it come from? We don't We don't know, is the 548 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: short answer. We have some suspicions. Uh sometimes the name 549 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 1: Archimedes gets thrown around there. Yeah, so one clue is 550 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: just that Archimedes he was around, you know, a century 551 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: before this, and he was a genius inventor and uh 552 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: or at least we assume, so some of his inventions 553 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: we cannot actually be certain were ever built. But sure, 554 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: Oh come on, he built a death ray, just just 555 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: death ray, okay, probably and a giant a giant arm 556 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: that would upset besieging ships. I want to believe, I understand. Okay, So, uh, well, 557 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: is that the only evidence that it might have been 558 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: our comedies? Well, no, Archimedes, as you might remember, was 559 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: from Uh. He lived in Syracuse in the which is unfortunate. Yeah, well, 560 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: unfortunate for our comedies. Uh, he lived in Syracuse. And 561 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: an interesting fact about the device that we discovered later 562 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: is that, okay, so the device has inscriptions all over it, 563 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: very faint inscriptions, and they're hard to read because of 564 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: all the corrosion from the thousands of years. But what 565 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: they discovered was, oh, okay, actually we can make out 566 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: some of these with some of this imaging we're about 567 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,719 Speaker 1: to talk about in the next section. And it's in 568 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: coin A Greek, So that was sort of like coin 569 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: A Greek was the lingua franca of the Hellenistic world, 570 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: and you know, people spoke it all over the place. 571 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: But the calendar that was represented on here reflected the 572 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: kind of calendar that would be used in the Ionian area, 573 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,239 Speaker 1: which would include Syracuse. Right, So that that gives at 574 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: least some again circumstantial evidence that perhaps our comedies could 575 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: have been involved in this. Then again, our comedies probably 576 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: died too early to have made this particular device due 577 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: to an over zealous soldier. We know he died in 578 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: think to twelve BC, and the device was made in 579 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: the probably sometimes between a d So, Yeah, that does 580 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: put some he died too early to have personally made it, right, 581 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: Maybe he made an earlier one. Yeah, And that's one 582 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: idea is that it could have come out of a 583 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: sort of a Syracuse based school of our comedies maybe. 584 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: And again, the Island of Rhodes is another example that 585 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: people have have presented, saying that they were very much 586 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: on that island. There was a scholarly center that was 587 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: devoted to astronomy, and that they also had craftsmen who 588 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: worked in clockwork type devices. So it's possible that it 589 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: could have originated from that area. We just we don't know. 590 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: There's some clues there, but we we don't know for sure. Yeah. 591 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: Another name I just want to mention real quick that 592 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: gets brought up is Hipparcos. Hipparcos Hippocaus of of Nicia. 593 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: And he was a Greek astronomer um and geographer and 594 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: he did the maths. He was a smart guy trigonometry right. Yeah. 595 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: He he was also uh he wasn't Hippocrates, but anyway, 596 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: he he He also was known for describing the movements 597 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: of the sun and the moon, right and uh, and 598 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: some indications that uh, it maybe could have had something 599 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: to do with him or that. Uh, the astronomical theories 600 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: that are reflected in this, including like the movement of 601 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 1: the moon, reflects his thoughts about the movement. So it 602 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 1: may not be that he had a direct hand in it, 603 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: but that perhaps a student or someone familiar with his 604 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: work took the theory and put it into a physical object. Okay, 605 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: but I have another theory about who created it. Yeah, 606 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: I have a feeling. I know what you're gonna say. 607 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: But hit me with it, buddy. Okay, Well, it goes 608 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: like this, This mechanism is way too advanced to have 609 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: been built by human beings at the time. Obviously it 610 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: was built by a aliens be time traveler see transdimensional reptilians. Right, 611 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: so um or or sorry d um, like a super 612 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: advanced secret human society that we don't know about, like Atlantis, 613 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: but we do know about them, we don't think they exist, 614 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: all right. So all right, and Joe, I know you're 615 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: you're presenting this as a tongue in cheek because you 616 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: and I share a common opinion on this about how 617 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: it's absolutely ridiculous nonsense to assume this. Yeah, for one thing, 618 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: it it really, it really says a lot about the 619 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: cynicism of people when it comes to the creativity of 620 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: human beings and ingenuity and our ability to process complex 621 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,439 Speaker 1: thoughts and bring them into reality. You know. I mean 622 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: it's the same argument that no, the Pyramids, no human 623 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: could have built those. Actually thousands of humans built those. 624 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: Tens of thousands of humans built those. Yeah, it's um, 625 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: it's not like somebody in ancient Greece building a warp drive, right, 626 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: It's it's somebody who was building something that was totally 627 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: available to someone with the technology of the time. All 628 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: they had to be was really really smart, right. Yeah. 629 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: We know that the astronomical knowledge was there. You know, 630 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: the scholarship was there. We know that the bronze working 631 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: was there. We know that people there were craftsmen who 632 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: generally it wasn't as good as this, right, but there 633 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: were craftsmen who could create incredible work. A lot of 634 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: bronze U Now, a lot of those that haven't survived 635 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: because of again the fact that people would melt stuff down. 636 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 1: But the ones that have survived have shown that there's 637 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, there has there was a level of artistry there. Yeah, 638 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: it's I think the bottom line is it's quite exceptional 639 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: for its time, but it's not unthinkable. And so we 640 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: are discounting the h the alien slash time traveler slash reptilian. 641 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: So whatever I mean, if it was from Aliens, you'd 642 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: think that, you know, it would reflect a little more 643 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: complete astronomical knowledge. You might be electronic or something. Also, 644 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be geocentrically talked about it, you know, it's 645 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: functionally geocentric, even though the person who made it might 646 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: have been right. But why would an alien bother to 647 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: make something from Earth's perspective when oh, yeah, they could 648 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: make an oory from the outside right, including the Earth 649 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: revolving around the sun. Yeah, why would they do? Yeah? 650 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me. Not 651 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: knowing about planets past Saturn, you know that maybe they 652 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: just thought those were those were not really high up 653 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: on the list. Yeah, you don't wanna, you don't want 654 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: to visit those. Yeah, So I think we can discount 655 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: the whole alien hypothesis. So we've got more we want 656 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: to talk about exactly we want to We want to 657 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,280 Speaker 1: cover how it is that we actually know this stuff. 658 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: But before we get into that, let's take another quick 659 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: break and thank our sponsor. Alright, so we have discussed 660 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: what it was, we discussed how it worked. How do 661 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: we know that it did this thing? I mean, you know, 662 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: you're talking about a giant hunk of corrodd bronze. How 663 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: could you possibly ever figure out what this thing actually did? 664 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: As we already mentioned, people originally did not know. They 665 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: had no idea what this hunk was capable of. For 666 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: a century, we really didn't know. We had some people 667 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: make some guesses occasionally, but for the most part, it 668 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: wasn't until we were able to use something far more 669 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: sophisticated than just our own eyeballs to look at it. 670 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: We had to use X rays, and with the X rays, initially, 671 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 1: the X rays show that there were lots of gears 672 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: inside this hunk of corrod at bronze, and that they 673 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: were connected in some way. But those early X rays 674 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: were not perfect. Mostly they due to the fact that 675 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: you couldn't tell depth with it, so you couldn't see 676 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: how the gears were connected. It was like a massive gears, 677 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: but you weren't sure where where they were in relation 678 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: to one another. Um But enter something called three D 679 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: X ray. Yeah, where sphy, Yeah, you start scanning it 680 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: from all different angles using different approaches. Did you did 681 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: you come across the powerful X ray machines called blade 682 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: Runner I didn't. Yeah, yeah, so blade Runner X ray machines. Sorry, 683 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: they used lots of different X ray machines throughout the 684 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: study of this device, as we began to learn that 685 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: this was far more important from a historical perspective than 686 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: anyone had had thought leading up to this. I mean 687 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: everyone was thinking that these other artifacts were really important 688 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: and this other thing was a curiosity. But as we 689 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: learned more about it, we realized, whoa this thing is amazing. Uh. Well, 690 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: the the various X ray devices we use showed more 691 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: or of the relation of all these different gears, so 692 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: we got to see how they were laid out inside 693 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: this hunk of corroded bronze. But the Blade Runner device, 694 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: all right, So it was an X ray machine that 695 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: was designed to look for tiny cracks and turbine blades. 696 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: That's what the original design of these machines was for, 697 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: and to tell whether or not you're a replican. Also 698 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: to tell whether Yeah, I would ask you, if a 699 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: turtle is on its back, what do you do? Why 700 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,800 Speaker 1: doesn't the mechanism turn the turtle over. Yeah, so anyway 701 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: it would look for these tiny It was designed so 702 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: that you could detect the tiniest of cracks and turbine blades, 703 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: so that you could do maintenance before a catastrophic failure. 704 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: They used it to look at this device, the anti 705 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: antikythera device. We keep avoiding saying it so that I 706 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: don't fall over myself. Let's say it three times together, 707 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: Jonathan An. That's fantastic, all right, now you have to 708 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: say it backwards. No. Um. So the antikythera device, the 709 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: blade Runner thing, it looks at it, and it actually 710 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: is able to see because it has such precise measurements. 711 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: It's able to to to distinguish what the tiny, shallow 712 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: carvings are on those dials. That's how we were able 713 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: to read the words the inscriptions, Yeah, because some of 714 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: them were just very faded already, even before you talk 715 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: about the corrosion effort in there or element in there, 716 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,879 Speaker 1: I should say. And the blade Runner X rays were 717 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 1: able to measure these very tiny changes in the surface 718 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: of these different dials, and that's how we were able 719 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: to see what the writing was and thus able to 720 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: really um translated and figure out what this thing actually did. 721 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: And that's how people once they started reading it, once 722 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: they started being able to read the writing, it became 723 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: clear that this was a far more sophisticated device than 724 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: what what predecessors were thinking. Even the earliest guesses were 725 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: things that probably can predict solar and lunar movements, or 726 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: maybe it's some form of calendar, but it No one 727 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: was really aware of how sophisticated it was until we 728 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: were able to take this closer look. And I think 729 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 1: it's pretty phenomenal what we've learned about it so far, 730 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: Like those shallow engravings have told us pretty much everything 731 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: we need to know about its basic function, and that's 732 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: how we're able to draw some conclusions and clearing the 733 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: conclusions that lad Michael t right to build his replica 734 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: of the device to the point where he's got a 735 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: working replica. Uh it as far as we can tell, 736 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:43,959 Speaker 1: it's as accurate to the original as we can possibly get. Yeah, 737 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: you should look this up on YouTube and see it, 738 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: because it's not just a model, it is a working replica. Yeah, 739 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: he built the machine. He he used very similar methods 740 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: as to what the ancient Greeks would have He used 741 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: the same sort of dimension of gears. Uh, you know, 742 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: keeping in mind that we don't he's working from an 743 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: incomplete model. Even with our very very sophisticated techniques these days, 744 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: you can't see what's not there, right, there's still some 745 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: missing pieces that we don't really have. You know, he 746 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: was able to recreate it based upon what we think 747 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: the device was meant to do, and his works and 748 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: the videos are amazing. When you watch the just the 749 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: minute movements of each of these pieces in relation to 750 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: one another and think of how complex this is, it's 751 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: mind blowing. It's well, and it's also it's a it's 752 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: a gorgeous device, you know. It's just it's a beautiful device. 753 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: You would look at and you might think. Originally, if 754 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: you were just to glance at it, you might think 755 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: it was either a really weird clock or maybe some 756 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: sort of navigational equipment for like a ship or something, 757 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: just because you've got bronze and wood there. But um, yeah, 758 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: once you've get a deeper understanding of what it is, 759 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty nifty. I think was made with brass 760 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: instead of I think you're right. I think it was 761 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: brass instead of bronze, So Yeah, even more ship like 762 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: then with the brass and would combination. Yeah. There's recent 763 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: scholarship going on with a project called the antikit thro 764 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: A Mechanism Research Projects. That's a collaborative project between lots 765 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: of different research organizations and individuals. Yeah, there's a mathematician 766 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: named Tony Freethe and uh he's been using imaging technology 767 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,800 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of questions that remain about 768 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: the mechanism. Yeah. They the group, the research group was 769 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: founded in two thousand five and has been extremely active. 770 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: They have sponsored several museum exhibitions throughout the world. I 771 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,839 Speaker 1: think right now as the record of this podcast, at 772 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: least some of the device is on display in uh 773 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: in a museum in Athens, but I believe that ends 774 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: in January. Yeah, it's the it's an exhibition called the 775 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: Antikitthera Shipwreck, the ship the treasures and the mechanism, and 776 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 1: it's at the National Archaeological Museum in Athens, Greece. Yeah, 777 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: and so that of course has more than than the 778 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: device itself. It also has examples of the other stuff 779 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: that was found in at shipwreck, which, by the way, 780 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,720 Speaker 1: people have gone back to that shipwreck and found more 781 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: things around it since that initial discovery, UM, and so 782 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: there's there. There's also been a lot of symposia that 783 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: they've held. They've had a lot of gatherings where they 784 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: they combine research and they published that research. There's lots 785 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: of information on their website about the device and the 786 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: circumstances around its discovery and just the process of discovery 787 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: as we used more and more sophisticated techniques to examine it. 788 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: And it's really a great resource. I highly recommend visiting 789 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: that website. I'll link to that on our Facebook page 790 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: and Twitter handle so you guys can see it, because 791 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty neat stuff. I mean, it's um, you know. 792 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed reading about the process they went through 793 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: as they would learn more and more, and of course 794 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: that hasn't finished. In fact, there's there's one thing, one 795 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: question besides who built it that we don't know the 796 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: answer to yet, which is why did they build it? Like? 797 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: Why is it? Was it? What? What was the in purpose? 798 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: Was it a scholarly tool? Was it so that they 799 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: could uh create, you know, specifically plan out events to 800 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 1: coincide with celestial events, so that perhaps it was a 801 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,880 Speaker 1: political tool? You know, maybe if if an eclipse is 802 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: seen as a bad omen, you may want to avoid 803 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: planning some big event around an eclipse just so that 804 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: people don't think that the event itself is cursed. I mean, 805 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 1: it's it's I'm sure in the ancient world you could 806 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: probably get some amount of power just by being able 807 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,879 Speaker 1: to accurately predict eclipses. Yeah. Yeah, and that's another possibility. 808 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 1: It could just be religious power or political power. We 809 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: don't know, and it's possible that as much as we 810 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,800 Speaker 1: can learn about this device, maybe we never really figure 811 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: out with any degree of certainty who built it or 812 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: why it was built. In fact, I'd be amazed if 813 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: we ever are able to figure out who built it. 814 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: That would be phenomenal to me. Unless someone's like, oh, 815 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: look here there's an inscription on the bottom Johan from Sweden. 816 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: What that would would be a big upset, But not 817 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: that I think that would ever happen. But yeah, I 818 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: mean it was I want to float another possibility steampunks, right, 819 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: so steampunk cost players. But I'm thinking that it was 820 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: a steampunk convention, a certain doctor showed up at it 821 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: accidentally ended up grabbing this device, and on a further 822 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: adventure maybe three episodes down the line ended up accidentally 823 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: dunking it into the ocean off the coast degrease. That's 824 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. UM explains everything. Uh did you see 825 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: the the lego really cool? Now? This wasn't We probably 826 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: might not want to call it a replica because it's 827 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: not trying to copy the form of the original, just 828 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: the function, right, And even the function it was I 829 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: think a limited part of it because it was really 830 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: showing things like eclipses in the UH in the the 831 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: Lego version, I don't think it necessarily showed all the 832 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,879 Speaker 1: movements that the antikitthera device showed because I was when 833 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: I watched the video, It's like, this is really clever 834 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: because it would show you the the date and UH 835 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 1: when the next eclipse would occur, whether it was solar 836 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: or Luna or both. But it didn't um both as 837 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 1: in like a region of time when both would occur, 838 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: not both occurring at the same time. UM necessarily, but 839 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: the uh, the it didn't tell you things. It didn't 840 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: tell you things like the movement of the planets as 841 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 1: far as I could tell, So it was it had 842 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: a limited set of functions. That the Antikia device actually did, 843 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: but it was still really cool to watch. It was 844 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: really cool. Let me tell you, I'm going to invent 845 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: a device and it's gonna tell you it will predict 846 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: when the sun passes in front of the moon that 847 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,799 Speaker 1: will be a bad day. I'm gonna make sure I 848 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: stay indoors that day. What is that called? That's called 849 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's called uh Well, it 850 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter because we're not. That's it's essentially called 851 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: uh boy. It's sure as vaporized outside today, isn't it. 852 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: H Yeah, no, that would not not go over well. Well, 853 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: that kind of wraps up our discussion about this amazing device. 854 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoyed it. It It was fun for 855 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,280 Speaker 1: us to look at something that was from the ancient world. Remember, 856 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: you can write to us and suggest your own. Topics 857 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: are email addresses tech stuff at Discovery dot com. You 858 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 1: can follow us on our social networks. We are when 859 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: you know, the ones that we're on, not the ones 860 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: that belong to us. Say that every time, but Facebook, 861 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: Twitter and Tumbler are handled. There is tech stuff hs 862 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,319 Speaker 1: W Joe. Of course they can listen to the two 863 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 1: of us and Lauren on the Forward Thinking audio podcast, 864 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, go to FW thinking dot com sometime. 865 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 1: You can check out that site. We've got the videos there, blogs, podcasts. 866 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 1: If you enjoy tech stuff, I have a feeling you 867 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,800 Speaker 1: would really dig Forward Thinking to go check that out too, 868 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:12,880 Speaker 1: and we will talk to you again really soon for 869 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,320 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it 870 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: how staff works dot com