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Speaker 1: So then fast forward, you know, five ten years from Howard,

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Speaker 1: where are you at in your career and do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you are doing baby Kaya proud in terms

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Speaker 1: of like where you've ended up.

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Speaker 2: My life is not. It doesn't necessarily look like what

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Speaker 2: I thought it would. But I have so many people

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Speaker 2: who message me or text me or reach out to

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Speaker 2: me and they're just like, oh my gosh, I wish

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Speaker 2: I could do this, or how did you do this?

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Speaker 2: Or Kaya, you represent what we want to do in

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Speaker 2: the Southeast as a filmmaker or even actors like you

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Speaker 2: have an audition in four years and you're booking nine episodes.

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Speaker 2: How every opportunity has come from a seed that I

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Speaker 2: sold prior.

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Speaker 1: Hey, hey va, fam I am so so excited to

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Speaker 1: welcome you all back to the show. I have an

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Speaker 1: incredible guest here in the virtual studio today. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Kaya Klingman, and I got to be honest with y'all.

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Speaker 1: This woman is the definition of brown ambition in action.

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Speaker 1: Talking about a Howard grad corporate alum and now in

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Speaker 1: a award winning indie producer and breakout actress who is

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Speaker 1: bringing deeply human black blackery, black back black stories to

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Speaker 1: the screen. She has been adopted by the city of Atlanta, Yes,

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Speaker 1: my beloved Atlanta, although she was raised in Cincinnati, and

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Speaker 1: Kaya has built her own lane with her production studio,

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Speaker 1: Kaya Canned Productions. She's also helped lead the Tribeca at

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Speaker 1: and t Untold Stories winning feature color book from Pitch

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Speaker 1: to Festival Darling, while quietly stacking over two dozen producer

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Speaker 1: credits across short series and features. On top of that

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Speaker 1: already crazy impressive resume, She's now stealing scenes as Kristen

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Speaker 1: in the Hulu Onyx collective legal drama Reasonable Doubt. Ariyalla's

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Speaker 1: obsessed with Reasonable Doubt, as I have become because of

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Speaker 1: Kaya's performance.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I hope.

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Speaker 1: So what I love about Kaya, what we'll get into today,

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Speaker 1: is that this was actually a role that she booked

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Speaker 1: off an audition that she almost did not submit and

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Speaker 1: has since turned her into a fan favorite for her

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Speaker 1: role as a complicated Ride or Die sister to former

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Speaker 1: child star Ozzi Edwards Whiyahamasso. From corporate life to calling

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Speaker 1: the shots behind the camera to standing in her power

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Speaker 1: on set with creators like ram La Mohammed and Carrie Washington.

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Speaker 1: Kaya's career is a masterclass embedding on yourself, owning your

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Speaker 1: work and staying ready for the door that could change everything.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me on Brown Ambition.

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Speaker 2: Kaya, Thank you, Mandy, and I need to steal that bio. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we can have it.

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Speaker 1: We can tweak it, yeah, it can tak it.

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Speaker 2: You can really incorporated all facets of my career. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: truly a multi hyphen it and it's sometimes ark of people,

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Speaker 2: especially in this industry, trying to pigeonhole you into being

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Speaker 2: just a producer, just an actor, and you incorporate all

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Speaker 2: that so beautifully.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, girl, it's your life. I'm just here

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Speaker 1: to help tell that story.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's been so easy for you, right, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: just walked into that set, got that job, unreasonable doubt.

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Speaker 1: You're just an overnight success. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Happened? Sometimes? I such a short interview right the end.

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Speaker 2: I wish it was that easy, but so many of

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Speaker 2: us who are who are on the journey decided to

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Speaker 2: do this journey for some weird reasons. Not easy. I actually,

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Speaker 2: you're right. I almost did not submit that audition tape

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Speaker 2: because I had not booked a role in four years.

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Speaker 2: And we don't talk about that a lot as actors,

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Speaker 2: the in between times, you know, on social media, we

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Speaker 2: typically just see the picture of someone in front of

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Speaker 2: their trailer when they book a role, or the deadline

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Speaker 2: article or their wrap photos, and we don't ever really

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Speaker 2: talk about the dark times, the times in between bookings.

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Speaker 2: And it's crazy that it had been four plus years

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Speaker 2: since I had had a sag booking, and it had

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Speaker 2: been so long that I essentially gave up on acting

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Speaker 2: and pivoted to be a full time filmmaker. I was

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Speaker 2: already a filmmaker before that, started my production company in

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, but I decided to pursue that full time,

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Speaker 2: leave my corporate career at Deloitte in twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: and committed my career to producing, directing, and writing. But

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Speaker 2: fast forward to this year twenty twenty five. March twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five, I was at a film festival for a

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Speaker 2: short film and a feature film, one which you mentioned

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Speaker 2: color Book, that I had produced, and I got a

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Speaker 2: text from a casting associate with the breakdown for Kristen

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Speaker 2: asking me to send in a self tape, And because

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Speaker 2: I had not been actively auditioning, I immediately felt insecure.

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Speaker 2: I felt imposter syndrome. The casting associate even mentioned that

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Speaker 2: they wanted the character to wear glasses, and not as

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Speaker 2: a pro, but actually wear glasses. And I wear glasses

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Speaker 2: every day. I really wear my checks, and so you

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Speaker 2: would think on paper, I would immediately been like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is meant to be, this is perfect for me.

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Speaker 2: But I was at a hotel. I wasn't in my

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Speaker 2: safe space of my self tape room, I didn't have

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Speaker 2: my reader that I always do auditions with, and put

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Speaker 2: on top of that, I hadn't really auditioned regularly in

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Speaker 2: over two and a half years. So all that combined,

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Speaker 2: it was very easy for me to say, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to do this. But I met a

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Speaker 2: filmmaker at I had already known the filmmaker, but I

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Speaker 2: ended up meeting up with a filmmaker in Cleveland who

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Speaker 2: is also an actress, and she told me that she

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Speaker 2: brings her ring light everywhere she goes and she'd be

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Speaker 2: happy to tape me that evening at her hotel. So

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what I did. I even posted on Instagram

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Speaker 2: our setup because we were in the hotel and we

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Speaker 2: had to rig the phone on top of a trash

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Speaker 2: can and like a water bottle and an iron and

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Speaker 2: in a whole thing. Yeah, and we but we got

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Speaker 2: it done. And I hated my audition so much that

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Speaker 2: I actually went back to my hotel room that night

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Speaker 2: and tried to retape it with my boyfriend and did.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say, it didn't go as well, but we

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Speaker 2: just didn't have enough lighting and it was our first

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Speaker 2: tape together and so there were a lot of things

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Speaker 2: to learn. But I ended up submitting the first audition

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Speaker 2: that I did with my friend Madison, and I found

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Speaker 2: out that I booked the role a week later. Within

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Speaker 2: that week, it was a lot of you know, nerves

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Speaker 2: because you find out that you're pinned for the role

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Speaker 2: and that you may get an offer, and there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of steps in between. But literally almost a

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Speaker 2: week later, I got my deal from my reps and

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Speaker 2: they told me I was going to be in nine episodes,

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Speaker 2: which crazy from going from not booking anything for four

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Speaker 2: years to doing nine episodes as a recurring guest star.

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Speaker 2: It is pretty unheard of. So I'm very thankful.

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Speaker 1: Uh well, I mean that story, I kind of get

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Speaker 1: chills thinking about it. I love the Sisterhood and that

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Speaker 1: like that wasn't someone that was like, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a best friend or like a relative. This is someone

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Speaker 1: who was just in the business yeah and knows maybe

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Speaker 1: you needed that extra little nudge.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and she'szy me too. Yeah, she gave me some

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Speaker 2: feedback and direction and she showed up for me when

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Speaker 2: I needed it. Like she she was, you know, running

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Speaker 2: around at the festival doing her thing, but she decided

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Speaker 2: to take time and pour into me because she knows

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Speaker 2: how it feels to be a director and an actor.

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Speaker 2: And she's an incredible writer too, so we know how

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Speaker 2: to wear that multi hype in it hat well. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm just grateful of how everything. And then and then

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Speaker 2: I coached with my boyfriend. I got a shout him out,

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Speaker 2: but he was really coaching with me, helping me memorize

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Speaker 2: the lines because again I was so rusty. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was Yeah, it's.

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Speaker 1: Not is that anything that would have been on your

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Speaker 1: radar for this year at all? Like not just to

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Speaker 1: have a role in a show. It could have been

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Speaker 1: a cameo, It could have been like a one you know,

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Speaker 1: like a one extra or something like that. But to

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Speaker 1: be to have that kind of arc in this huge

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Speaker 1: of a show and your character. Should we do spoilers

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Speaker 1: in this episode if y'all haven't watched the latest season

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Speaker 1: every week watched it?

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Speaker 2: Hey, okay, we we can add like a spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: but tell.

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Speaker 1: Tell be a fan about the show, like if they

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Speaker 1: haven't watched Reasonable Doubt yet, because you all need to.

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Speaker 1: It's on Hulu. You can binge it. You know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even watch seasons what is it?

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Speaker 2: Third season? So I'm in season three a Reasonable Doubt.

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Speaker 1: I did not have the patience.

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Speaker 2: You got to catch up everyone, and you got to

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Speaker 2: watch one, two and three because you get you get

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Speaker 2: deeply connected to the characters. But what I loved about

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Speaker 2: our season is that we got to really really focus

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Speaker 2: even more in the case. At least that was from

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Speaker 2: my perspective of season one and two. I feel like

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Speaker 2: we've focused a little more on Jack's and her family,

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Speaker 2: and we still get that in season three, but we

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Speaker 2: dig into the case even more. We build this ensemble

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Speaker 2: around Ozzy, so we get to and Ozzie is the

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Speaker 2: person that that that we're every every season focuses on

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Speaker 2: someone who is on trial that Jackson is defending, and

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Speaker 2: for season three.

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Speaker 1: Jack is the badass partner of a long black woman.

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Speaker 2: Just she's the attorney that you want to have, that

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Speaker 2: you want to hire. You probably can't afford, but but

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Speaker 2: you want her. And so I get to play Ozzie's sister.

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Speaker 2: And I could never if you would have told me

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Speaker 2: last year that I would book a nine episode show

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Speaker 2: as a guest star on Hulu's hit show Reasonable Dow.

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Speaker 2: That's epeed by Larry Wilmore and Carrie Washington and produced

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Speaker 2: by a slew of other incredible people and show ran

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Speaker 2: by one of the best black one I've ever met, Mohammed,

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Speaker 2: with an all black writers room like so many like

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Speaker 2: all black department heads and just black women directors.

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Speaker 1: I would have laughed, in your new hometown, you didn't

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Speaker 1: have to even travel nowhere, No, I.

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Speaker 2: Would like, yeah, literally up the street. We shot at

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Speaker 2: Eagle Rock in Norcross. So yeah, it was such an

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Speaker 2: incredible experience. And I was doing my best to be

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Speaker 2: present because I struggle with that just as an anxiety

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Speaker 2: girly like just always thinking about the future and trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out what's next. I was really trying to

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Speaker 2: hold myself accountable to be present every day I got

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Speaker 2: to be on set with a blessing. Whether I was

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Speaker 2: just sitting in the courtroom and didn't have lines that day,

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Speaker 2: or whether I was like actively going at it with

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Speaker 2: my brother with Kyle Berry or having a love scene

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Speaker 2: with Tim Joe, like whatever it was, I was so

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Speaker 2: happy and grateful to be there and knew that the

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Speaker 2: opportunity would come to an end eventually, so I really

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Speaker 2: wanted to just soak up every moment. And then I mean,

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Speaker 2: I only had to wait a couple months and then

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Speaker 2: we aired, and that's not typical, like usually you have

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Speaker 2: to wait a year before the show comes out, and

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Speaker 2: we waited just a few months, and then I got

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Speaker 2: to relive that entire experience in a new way, getting

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Speaker 2: to see how each episode was edited, because we read

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Speaker 2: the scripts and we performed, but we don't get to

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Speaker 2: watch anything, so we don't know how like what scenes

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Speaker 2: are going to be cut or tweaked, or how they're

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Speaker 2: going to rearrange different scenes in the episode. And so

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Speaker 2: all of that was just a roller coaster ride for

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Speaker 2: me as a fan and as an audience member, but

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Speaker 2: also getting to watch myself as Kristen as this character.

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Speaker 2: It was it was an amazing, like out of body experience.

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Speaker 2: That I will cherish forever.

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Speaker 1: I know I gave you some shit for that one line.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get over it.

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Speaker 2: Vam Daniel know what lights your fire? I know, come

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Speaker 2: on now.

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Speaker 1: But no, we love the writers, we love the Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's such a juicy role too, And for if you

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Speaker 1: love any I love. I love drama, but I also

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Speaker 1: love suspense and the who done it?

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Speaker 2: Of it all.

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Speaker 1: I like to be guessing. I like to as you

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Speaker 1: can tell, I was like texting you like was it you?

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Speaker 2: It was?

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Speaker 1: It wasn't. Yeah, you did a good job making me

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Speaker 1: look like a fool. It must have been so fun.

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Speaker 1: But if you love any kind of show where it's

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Speaker 1: like who done it? Then you will love reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 1: It's sexy, it is empowering, it's satisfying. It's just such

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Speaker 1: a juicy, juicy, juicy show. But let's back up a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Howard Alum, you grew up in Cincinnati. Find

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Speaker 1: your way to Howard also proud Delta Delta Gurley, Yes,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about your early you went to Howard?

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Speaker 1: Did you go for film? Was that your ambition to

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Speaker 1: be an act?

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Speaker 2: No? But a story I don't think i've ever told

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Speaker 2: publicly is that I was rejected from Howard's Theater School.

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Speaker 2: I actually auditioned that I went to Howard's Theater School,

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Speaker 2: and so this is a Brown and Vision exclusive. But

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Speaker 2: my dad likes to tell the story, and he drove

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Speaker 2: me up to DC while I was in high school

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Speaker 2: and I auditioned, and my anxiety got a hold of me.

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Speaker 2: I totally like forgot my monologue or whatever I had

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Speaker 2: to do with at the time, and I had been

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Speaker 2: preparing and preparing and preparing and just completely just lost

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Speaker 2: it in the room and tried to recover, of course,

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Speaker 2: but blanked out. I remember walking out of the Fine

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Speaker 2: Arts building and my dad was right there, and I

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Speaker 2: just like started falling, and you know, you still have

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Speaker 2: hope that like maybe again, maybe they'll see past that.

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Speaker 2: But I did not get in, and so I was

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out what was closest to performing arts

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Speaker 2: or what's something that I could do. My dad's a writer,

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Speaker 2: he's an author, he was a columnists for years and

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Speaker 2: an editor, and so I actually ended up pursuing journalism,

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Speaker 2: and I pursued broadcast journalism for my first year and

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Speaker 2: did not love it. So I ended up changing my

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Speaker 2: concentration to advertising my sophomore year and graduated with a

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Speaker 2: major in advertising in the School of Journalism and a minor,

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Speaker 2: a double minor.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know you were a journalism girly too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: And then I minored in theater in history, so I

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Speaker 2: was able to still get my love for theater through

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Speaker 2: through my minor. But God works in a serious ways

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Speaker 2: because I ended up leaving Howard with almost like twenty

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Speaker 2: short films under my belt as an actress, but also

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Speaker 2: learning the craft of producing, which I didn't know that's

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Speaker 2: what I was doing at the time at the time

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Speaker 2: at all, But I was casting. I was like finding locations,

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Speaker 2: We were figuring out crew. We weren't doing contracts back

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Speaker 2: then because it was just us students. But like, I

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Speaker 2: learned how to operate a sound and like was learning

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Speaker 2: about cameras with my friends. But because I was in

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Speaker 2: the school of communications and not Fine Arts, and communications

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Speaker 2: was at the bottom of the hill and fine arts

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Speaker 2: at the top. I was with all of the aspiring filmmakers,

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Speaker 2: and so they were always looking for actors and actresses

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Speaker 2: and they didn't want to go all the way up to

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Speaker 2: fine arts and fine arts. Students were, you know, focused

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Speaker 2: on theater, and so I became like the go to

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Speaker 2: actress at Howard. And it's crazy because a lot of

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Speaker 2: the fine arts students, even now, they think that I

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Speaker 2: graduated with the major in theater because I was around

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Speaker 2: them all the time. But then I was also like

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Speaker 2: the actor and everyone's short films, everyone's skits, and and

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have had that same

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Speaker 2: opportunity if I would have actually majored in theater. So

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Speaker 2: I got to really learn about filmmaking by being in

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Speaker 2: the school of Communications, and I'm thankful for how that

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Speaker 2: worked out.

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Speaker 1: Wow, hey, ba Fam, we got to take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: pay some bills and we'll be right back, okay, to

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Speaker 1: unpack that. So, while you're at Howard, you're you're rejected

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Speaker 1: from the from getting into that theater program, you're which

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Speaker 1: you're still there, you're nearby, and you're building these relationships

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Speaker 1: with your peers who are doing these creative projects. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like we'll talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: importance of building those relationships. And as someone who, like

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Speaker 1: you've talked about, you know, struggles with anxiety, I have

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Speaker 1: been very transparent with ba Fam, y'all, know, hella introverted,

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Speaker 1: very anxious girl like dealing with that but having to

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Speaker 1: overcome that. Can you talk about how you overcame that

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Speaker 1: to build those relationships and that reputation for your craft

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Speaker 1: really in your career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't even say that I over came it.

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Speaker 2: I do think it's actually progressively gotten worse as I've

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Speaker 2: become more assault. But I think I used it. I

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Speaker 2: definitely used it. But I would still perform, and I'm technical.

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Speaker 2: I tepically have like perform or mental anxiety, but I

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Speaker 2: would still figure out a way to perform and push

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Speaker 2: through it. I don't know if that was the healthiest

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Speaker 2: thing back then at the time. And now I have

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Speaker 2: a you know, a psychologist who can help me through

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Speaker 2: with coping techniques, but back then I didn't necessarily have that.

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Speaker 2: But I also had a crazy, crazy work ethic. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes when you feel like you may be lacking in talent,

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Speaker 2: like I think, if you have a very strong work ethic,

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Speaker 2: it can almost like balance itself out. And that's at

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Speaker 2: least how my my career has been. But I worked

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Speaker 2: really really hard at Howard on the academic side but

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Speaker 2: also on the social side, and I don't know how

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Speaker 2: I did that. I guess I just didn't sleep, I guess.

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Speaker 2: But like I graduated as alutatorian, I just I studied

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Speaker 2: abroad in London because I was going to graduate early

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Speaker 2: and I didn't want to. So they said, well, you're

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Speaker 2: a whole semester half ahead. So I was like, let

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Speaker 2: me just go to London and study theater since so

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Speaker 2: I can still graduate with my class. And I think

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Speaker 2: because I'm an only child, I craved friendship. I craved sisterhood,

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Speaker 2: I craved relationships in general, and I was also struggling

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Speaker 2: to find my identity when I left high school. I

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Speaker 2: grew up in an all white neighborhood. My school was diverse,

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Speaker 2: but the classes that I that I took, I was

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Speaker 2: one of two to three black folks in our class,

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Speaker 2: and so I was very brainwashed as a kid. And

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Speaker 2: even though I had a father who was an activist

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Speaker 2: for black economic empowerment, I was just in the sunken

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Speaker 2: place and I was like wanting to detach from that

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Speaker 2: and rebel against what my dad was teaching me. And

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Speaker 2: I remember when he my mom actually encouraged me to

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Speaker 2: go on the HBCU College tour. I didn't want to go,

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Speaker 2: but I ended up going, and that's when my eyes

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00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 2: were open to Howard, to Spelman to fam We traveled everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and I remember getting on Howard's campus and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: it touched my heart in a way, like I didn't

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Speaker 2: even know what I was missing until I stepped on

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Speaker 2: to Howard's campus. And I think when I got to Howard,

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Speaker 2: I was wrestling with a huge identity crisis, and Howard

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Speaker 2: forces you to confront all of those things on the

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Speaker 2: academic side, but especially on the social side. I didn't

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Speaker 2: know much about fraternities or sororities, or the history behind it,

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00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 2: the importance of them, especially when connected to an HBCU,

362
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Speaker 2: and I decided to pursue dust Sigma Data Authority Incorporated

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Speaker 2: and everything that I learned from pledging, but also the

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Speaker 2: relationships I made that I'm still deeply indebted to so

365
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 2: many women who have changed my life, changed the course

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Speaker 2: of my life because of principles that they taught me

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Speaker 2: and they continue to instill in me. I met my

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Speaker 2: best friend Shamiel McKay, who's my twenty six on my

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Speaker 2: line through Delta, and I can't imagine life without her,

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Speaker 2: Like Delta Howard, all that entire experience, the entire four years.

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Speaker 2: I always tell people it's the best four years of

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Speaker 2: my life. It changed who I am as a as

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Speaker 2: a black woman, and just instilled so much heritage and

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Speaker 2: power and confidence in me that I didn't have when

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Speaker 2: I was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy for baby Kaya, I know, and for

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Speaker 1: everyone who gets that experience. Yeah, I had to do.

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Speaker 1: I had to cobble together an HBCU experience within a PWI.

379
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Speaker 1: I went to University of Georgia and I'm so indebted

380
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: to Black Uga because it really was. I feel like

381
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Speaker 1: they should put Black Uga on the list of HBCUs,

382
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Speaker 1: but like not an official one obviously, but the community

383
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Speaker 1: is so strong and so like once I found that

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Speaker 1: pocket within Uga and I didn't, I'm so I mean

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Speaker 1: the fact that you had parents who were pushing you

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Speaker 1: toward HBCUs, like my parents, I know about all that.

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Speaker 1: Like I was so ignorant in a way, but I

388
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Speaker 1: was lucky enough to have been in that safe space

389
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Speaker 1: and sisterhood and like that. You know, and our stories

390
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: really overlap in terms of being like going to schools

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00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: where yes, they can be diverse, but when you get

392
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Speaker 1: put in those like ap classes and all that, like,

393
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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you become the only chocolate ship in

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Speaker 1: the pancake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so I could really just relax. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had a place where I

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Speaker 1: could relax and just be me and understood until that experience,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, that's just beautiful.

400
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Speaker 2: And I wasn't any more in Howard. I went to

401
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Speaker 2: Howard and there was so many different types of black

402
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: people there were. It was like, okay, let's get this

403
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 2: out the way. We're all smart. It wasn't like in

404
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 2: high school it's the smart kids black kids against the

405
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 2: kids that aren't in AP or IB classes. Like it

406
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: was very weird, and so at Howard it was like, hey,

407
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 2: that's the standard. What else can you do? What are

408
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: your hobbies, what's your personality? Where are you from? And

409
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 2: how does being from LA differ from being from Baltimore

410
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 2: and getting to see those groups of people. And then

411
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Speaker 2: we had Ohio Club and Georgia Club, Ohio Club. Oh yeah,

412
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: I was Ohio Club. Okay, that's the cool thing. It's

413
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: like we're all black, but like let's let's dig deeper

414
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 2: and like figure out, you know, who we are as people,

415
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: and it was an incredible experience. For sure, you learning

416
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 2: about African and he's like in math class, which is wild.

417
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Speaker 1: Not I have sometimes fantasized about just going back to

418
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: an HBCU, like getting a master's or something, just make

419
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: maybe I'll just you know, just show up like you did,

420
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: just like being I never no, am, I allowed, I'm

421
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: not what.

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00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna go. We gotta go, you know. Al well,

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00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: we went this year and then my mom got a

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Speaker 2: car accident the first ding we got there, so didn't

425
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: get to go. But I got to make up for

426
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: that next year. So maybe we can go. We can

427
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: get Oh my god, I would love does it taste?

428
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: I think that since COVID, But they're starting to get there,

429
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 2: they're getting better, and you're ge to look being in

430
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: a sea of folks that look like you, oh and

431
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: just like it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So you're in that you know, happy bubble of Howard.

433
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Speaker 1: And then I'm not surprised to hear that your anxiety

434
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Speaker 1: got worse as you got older. The same because life

435
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: gets harder. They don't tell you that it gets harder,

436
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: and you get to really enjoy those younger years because

437
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: it gets so much more complex, and the stakes get

438
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: higher and the pressure gets it builds. So then fast forward,

439
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, five ten years from Howard, where are you

440
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: at in your career and do you feel like you're

441
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: you know you are doing? Baby KaiA proud in terms

442
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: of like where you've ended up at that point.

443
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 2: Because I'm so hard on myself, I've had to release

444
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 2: the timelines of life and where you think you should be,

445
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: because if I looked back and I really thought where

446
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: I would be at twenty five or twenty eight, then

447
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: I'd be like, no, I didn't I didn't get there.

448
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: But then I look at the different things I've done.

449
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: I never would have dreamed that I would raise or

450
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: be able to win a grant for a million dollars

451
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 2: to make a film in a year, and then hit

452
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: two strikes so then have to make the film in

453
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: five months. I wouldn't have even been able to conjure

454
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: that scenario up. So yes, I do think that baby

455
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: Ki would be amazed at what she did. Would it

456
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: have been the ideal timeline or looked like exactly what

457
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: she imagined? No, but her mind will be blown because

458
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: she would be like, you.

459
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: Did what and you're doing what okay, okay, a pivot

460
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: for sure, But I like, you know so, and I

461
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: like that, and I'm starting to accept that, like my

462
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 3: life it's not it doesn't necessarily look like what I

463
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: thought it would.

464
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: But I have so many people who message me or

465
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 2: text me or reach out to me and they're just like,

466
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I wish I could do this or

467
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: how did you do this? Or kaya, and you represent

468
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: so many you know, what we want to do in

469
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: the Southeast as a filmmaker and like man raising a

470
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: million dollars from from Georgia, like as from being a

471
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 2: filmmaker in Georgia, that that doesn't happen and so or

472
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: even actors like you have an audition in four years

473
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: and you're booking nine episodes? How like what? Who did

474
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: you know? And it's like it's not this, not that,

475
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 2: it's like it's beautiful, And I like that. My life

476
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: and my opportunities have come from like trusting the process

477
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: and kind of just going with I don't want say

478
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: going with the flow, because there's a ton of hard

479
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 2: work behind it. All of this, even how my reasonable

480
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: doubt audition came came from two and a half years

481
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: of work and building a relationship with the casting director.

482
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, I still every opportunity has come from something

483
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: from a seed that I sowed prior and I get

484
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 2: to see it blow maybe three years later or five

485
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: years later or ten years later. And I think that's

486
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 2: the beautiful, bittersweet part of life, because you know, we

487
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: want answering, gratification, we want things to happen like now

488
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: or yesterday.

489
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: I think you're such a testament too, like you said,

490
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: to making those in those small little investments, whether it's time,

491
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: a relationship, building early and not really knowing where they're

492
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: going to lead you, but just you know, leading with

493
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: integrity and with your creative spirit. And I know that

494
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily like a linear path. It wasn't like

495
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: you graduated and it was like acting job to acting job,

496
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: like you you worked at Deloitt. I don't think it

497
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: gets more corporaty than Deloitte, you know, like I'm a

498
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: huge it's all over, you know. But at the same time,

499
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: can you talk about while working nine to five how

500
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: you continued to flex those creative muscles, writing, producing, making films.

501
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: How did you make that happen while you were working

502
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: full time.

503
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to promote not sleeping, because everyone should

504
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: be getting seventy to nine hours of sleep a night,

505
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: but I did not do that.

506
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: We just want the truth.

507
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: Right after college, I so I had eight to five

508
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: and then a nine to five I mean, and then

509
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: a five to nine or five to nine or five

510
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: to twelve, whatever you want to call it. So I

511
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: got into producing officially in twenty six, twenty seventeen. And

512
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: again I was doing it before that, not calling myself

513
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: a producer, not really knowing what I was doing. But

514
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen is when I officially got into it and

515
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: produced a web series Caught out Landish with no budget

516
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: that garnered well over a million views and having opportunity

517
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: to pitch to Ester Ray Productions, and it became this

518
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: like witch thing.

519
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: Really.

520
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: That's where I kind of became like the go to

521
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: producer in Atlanta and then went to Then I produced

522
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: thirty short films and short docs, narrative branded content, et cetera,

523
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: and then got into features.

524
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: So basically, as soon as you clocked out, as soon

525
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: as you clocked in to everything else.

526
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: Exactly, and you have to and so and weekends. I

527
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: never had a weekend I sacrificed a lot, a lot,

528
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: a lot a lot right after college, like I put

529
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: relationships on the back burner, both platonic and romantic. Like

530
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: I and I look back in sometimes I regret, like

531
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: not going out with friends, or not building some of

532
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: the friendships or retaining some of the friendships, like even

533
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: that I had at Howard. We have a Howard community

534
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: here in Atlanta, and I didn't really build on those.

535
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: I'm like I should have because I was obsessed with

536
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: my career. And after I got home from Deloitte, and

537
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 2: this was you know, pretty remote days. So I was

538
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 2: going into an office with no windows in the CDC

539
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: doing federal health consulting, and I did that, got home

540
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: and then I would clock in and figure out what

541
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: I was gonna do producing or I was working on acting,

542
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: like getting headshots done, submitting to agents, doing self tapes.

543
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: I was doing both of those things, and every minute

544
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: of a free time that I had was devoted to that,

545
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: to building that career. And so then we fast forward,

546
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, to the million dollar grant. It's like that

547
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: director of that project reached out to me because of

548
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: the work I did for those years prior, for all

549
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: of the projects before. He saw a project that I

550
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: had produced that went to Tribeca and and said, oh

551
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: my gosh, she got a mall. Then I know she

552
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: can get Marta, which we can we can dig into

553
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: color book later, but as a location, yeah exactly. Yeah,

554
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: so he's like, what togell in a short film a

555
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: mall in Georgia. Then okay, yeah she can get Marda.

556
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: But you know that was a seed planted for that,

557
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 2: and there's just seeds of punk seeds bunk Sea's planet.

558
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: But like, if you want something bad enough, you gotta

559
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: figure out how to survive, but then also how to

560
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: how to pursue that Plan A and make sure your

561
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: Plan B doesn't become your Plan A. And that's what

562
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: I was starting to feel with Deloitte when I was

563
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: approaching my fourth fifth year, which is why I did

564
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: like a code turkey quit two weeks dry, got a mortgage,

565
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: I bought a condo, and I quit two weeks later.

566
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: Not take me to that. Wait, you're leaving all these crumbs.

567
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: I need to pick some of these up. Okay, I

568
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: know I want to come back to but I want

569
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: to come back to you. I want to double click

570
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: on ew gross. I just used that to double click.

571
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: I don't think it gets more corporate bro than double click.

572
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: Where did that come from?

573
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: I kind of like that.

574
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: I think the system is poisonous, like it got into

575
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: my brain. But I want to I want to come

576
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: back to producing because I want to know. I want

577
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: you to define producing and the way that you produce

578
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: because I know it can mean a bunch of different things.

579
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: But right quick, though, I wasn't sure when you eventually

580
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: like quit Deloitte and then you know full time went

581
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: into the creative part. But yeah, tell us about that,

582
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: Yeah twos after you got a mortgage?

583
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: What I was inspired to quit and walk out on

584
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 2: faith because I had tested for my first series regular

585
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: role on the acting side in twenty twenty one.

586
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: What does that mean you tested for your Yeah?

587
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: So series regular is like the highest type of role

588
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: that you can get in TV. So like I wasn't

589
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: a series regular on reason with that of the guest star,

590
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: and then there's like recurring co star, and then there's

591
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: co star, but the highest is a series regular, right,

592
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: And so this was at this point twenty twenty one,

593
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: the highest point of my career. I had done an

594
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: initial audition I had done a callback and then I

595
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: did a director session with the director of this new

596
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 2: show and it was for a series regular role, and

597
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 2: then I found out that I would be testing and

598
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: it was during COVID. So usually when you test for

599
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: a role, they fly you out to LA or we're

600
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: in New York wherever, and you actually do like camera

601
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: tests with the other characters, or the directors get to

602
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: give you live feedback. And we didn't get to do that,

603
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: so mine was on zoom. But you negotiate all of

604
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: your terms. You get an attorney and like, you negotiate

605
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 2: all of your terms before you do the test session

606
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: because they want to know, like, hey, is everything kosher

607
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: before we like you and then we and then we

608
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: lock you in. But by this time it's usually like

609
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: two to three people that they're looking at. It's all arbitrary,

610
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: but typically what I've seen it is like it's down

611
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: to like you are. You are one of the choices,

612
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 2: you know, and your life could change. Because the numbers

613
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: that were attached to what I was going to get

614
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: paid per episode, my life was going to change. It

615
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: would have been very easy to lead Juloitte. So I

616
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: killed my test session, like I remember I had to

617
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: do like forty pages of like memorize forty pages and

618
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: do it live because they actually had me read for

619
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: multiple characters, and I knocked all the characters out, like

620
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: I remember killing it. And I got this idea in

621
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: my head and I was like, you know what, I

622
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: know my life is about to change in two weeks,

623
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: like I'm going to I'm going to leave delay. It's

624
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: time I've been wanting to do it. There's no better

625
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: time because if for some reason, I don't get this,

626
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: which I didn't even I couldn't even fatho my head

627
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: that I wouldn't get it, but I will. This is

628
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: a like it'll be a great reason for me to quit.

629
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: But I know if I wait and I find out

630
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: I don't get it, then I'm gonna stay here out

631
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: of just fear. And I'm going to continue to work

632
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: at a job that I said that I was going

633
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: to quit after two years. I said, I wanted to

634
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: meet my signing bonets. You know you have to if

635
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: you don't stay for two years and you have to

636
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: give your signing bonus back. I said I was going

637
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 2: to stay for two years, and I was out, and

638
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: somehow I don't know what happened, like and we and

639
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: if we get into money money. I did not get

640
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: a four one K, which my parents were so upset

641
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: about because I was like, I don't need that. I

642
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: want all my money to go in my pocket. And

643
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: they they matched, Oh that they had a great I

644
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: think they matched like eight percent.

645
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: And I was like, so you had access to it,

646
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: but you didn't invest into it.

647
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: Now I did not, and I stayed for five years. Yeah,

648
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: don't do that, kids, But yeah, I uh, I did

649
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 2: the session. I thought I killed it. I put in

650
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: my two weeks at Deloitte. Thought they were going to

651
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: like grovel with my feet and asked me to stay.

652
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 2: But it was like, oh, no, send us your laptop back. Hey,

653
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: exit interview, You're out. I was like, what, No, I'm okay.

654
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: I'm really just a cog.

655
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: We got a hundred more like it.

656
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 2: Literally bye h. And I was like, it's okay, because

657
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a call that I booked this show.

658
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: And I remember in the call farm Manager, I was

659
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: actually in Greenville with my parents and I had had

660
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: a I had had something similar my first role I

661
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: ever booked. I got cut from on the day of

662
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: my fitting and I went into like one of the

663
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: deepest depressions. I had never felt anything like that before.

664
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 2: And that was bad because I actually booked the role

665
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: and signed the paperwork and then I got dropped the

666
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: day in my fitting for someone who had more credits.

667
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 2: It was my first credit. This was a different feeling

668
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: because I knew I had made like a huge mistake

669
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: and had to figure out how to pay a mortgage

670
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 2: with maybe like three months. I did not get the role.

671
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: It got down to me and one other girl, and

672
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: they chose the other girl, and yeah, I found out

673
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: in my mom's kitchen and I remember like crying and

674
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: just it was awful. It was awful. I still would

675
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: say the first time that I got like when I

676
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: got droppedrom the fitting was was worse. But after two

677
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: big blows like that, you start building this like callous

678
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: of from so much rejection. Because we self tape all

679
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: the time and we don't hear anything, we don't get feedback,

680
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 2: We don't get like good job. Our agents will if

681
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 2: you have a good team, then they'll watch your tapes

682
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: and give you some feedback, which is very which is awesome,

683
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: But from casting directors, from producers, you rarely hear anything

684
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: back unless you're actually moving forward. And so we're submitting

685
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: hundreds of auditions a year, pre strikes and pre COVID.

686
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 2: But I remember one year I submitted like one hundred

687
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: and twenty auditions in the year, didn't hear back from

688
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: any of them. And we're taking time off work to

689
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: set up a self tape, to find a reader, to

690
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 2: sometimes pay to coach, and to pay for someone to read,

691
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: and it takes up hours of your time and you

692
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: don't hear anything. And so I was tired of it,

693
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm gonna do filmmaking full time

694
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 2: and really build up my production company. I had already

695
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: set up my LLC and my s corp. And I

696
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: was just like, let me just this is the perfect

697
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: opportunity to just pour all my energy. I don't care

698
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: about acting anymore at the time. That's what I said to,

699
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: you know, to cope. But I was like, I'm going

700
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 2: to stop this. And then color Book came, that opportunity came,

701
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm going to focus on this one.

702
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was sad. It was sad, but I

703
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: think I so I told someone else there's an article recently.

704
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: But the director who directed me in that test session

705
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 2: is a producing director of Reasonable Doubt, and so I

706
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: got to see him on my first Dafts on set,

707
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: walked up to him, and I don't think he remembered

708
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: me at the time, and I got to tell him eventually,

709
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: like I think I told him maybe like a few

710
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: episodes later, and I was like, you know, I was,

711
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: I auditioned and tested in front of you, and you

712
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: directed me for this role in this show. And it

713
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: was just like the most serendipitous like moment of just wow,

714
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: you know, and like it took for you. But this

715
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: was a full circle moment, really, And he's one of

716
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: the best people I've ever met and most talented producers

717
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: and directors. Antion Cropper, Yeah.

718
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: I can't think of a more relatable and heartbreaking kind

719
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: of crushing story that I know listeners like I know myself.

720
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: I can think back to those times in my career

721
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: where the rug has been pulled out from beneath you

722
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: and it feels like, well, the signs are telling me

723
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: that this is not the path for me. So I'm

724
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: going to set that to the side and go in

725
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: this new direction. And I don't even want to say

726
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: it's not giving up. I think it's a healthy way

727
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: of coping. I think the pivoting that you did to

728
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: take care of yourself and to flex some other muscles

729
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 1: to build those relationships as a filmmaker, I think that

730
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: that it all matters. It all kind of adds up

731
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: to whatever that next opportunity is. But God, I just

732
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: empathize so much with where you were at in that moment,

733
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: and I'm just so it's very encouraging and courageous of

734
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: you to pick yourself up and to keep going.

735
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: It's hard, it reminds me. But it allowed me to

736
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: take a break and come back to acting in a

737
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 2: healthy way because I used to have this feeling of

738
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 2: desperation every time I taped, and that you can see

739
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: that when you're auditioning. And I also got to learn

740
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: more about what it looks like on the other side

741
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: of acting, because when I cast color Book, we worked

742
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: with one of the best casting directors here in the

743
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: Southeast are Eric Arbold, who ended up being the casting

744
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: director for Reasonable Dult, But I hired her to pass

745
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: our film color Book, and I got to see how

746
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: it worked on the other side of getting the tape

747
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: sit to us and saying, hmm, can we get some

748
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: more tapes or no, you know, and we're getting what

749
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: the casting director is saying. So hundreds of people are

750
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: submitting to her and her team, and then we're getting

751
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: maybe twenty tapes, and so we're getting to look through those,

752
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: and some directors, like like our director for Color Book,

753
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: he wanted more so he would be like, no, send

754
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: me fifty, send me one hundred. So we get to

755
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: really look at the entire pool of talent. But on TV,

756
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: like you don't have time, directors are like watching tapes quick, quick, quick,

757
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: So they're trusting their casting director to have sifted through

758
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: one hundred thousands of submissions and picking the best folks

759
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: for the role. And that helped me kind of separate

760
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: myself from being this like hungry talented artist, like I

761
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: deserve every role that I auditioned for, and like, first

762
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: of all, there is a middle person in between this

763
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: of you seeing like this get getting sent to the

764
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: producers or directors. So just because you submit it tape

765
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: doesn't mean like you're going to be automatically seeing. But

766
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: also there's a thousand reasons why you don't get a role.

767
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: We audition so many talented people for color Book, and

768
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: then something else happened where it's like, oh, this person

769
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 2: or this person, and it was completely out of their control.

770
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: And my heart went out for every person who was pinned,

771
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: or when you're pinned, you really think you have a chance,

772
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: and you do. But things went a different way, and

773
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: I was on the producing side of that, And so

774
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: now that I'm back acting again, I'm able to do

775
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: it from a much healthier mindset and know that, like,

776
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: I'm doing this audition, but I'm just gonna have fun

777
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: with it because it may get seen by the producers.

778
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: It may not. This casting director may watch ten seconds

779
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 2: of it, they may watch all of it. But that's

780
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: not I can't control that. I can just control like

781
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: having a good audition, having fun, and putting out my

782
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: best work and that's it, you know, continuing to make

783
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: relationships on the producing side and on the casting side,

784
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: because I have seen that work.

785
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: I feel like what you're talking about is detaching your

786
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: self worth and detaching like your idea of success up

787
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: into this one decision that is truly out of your control.

788
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's so applicable to anyone. I don't

789
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: care if you're an actor, you're a ux designer, a

790
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: software engineer, a teacher, and you're applying for something like

791
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: so many people are right now in this job market,

792
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, sending out your self tape, sending out your

793
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: application into the nether mary.

794
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: Hire someone, I'm like, what I know?

795
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: You know about LinkedIn? Yes, and you never hear back,

796
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: or if you're lucky enough, you get an automated response

797
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: from a bot saying you've been passed over and you

798
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: can't And it's so hard, but it's important to learn

799
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: how to disassociate from it a little bit and not

800
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: tie up your It's not like you are inherently undeserving

801
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: or worthy or not talented. It's just out of your

802
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: control in a lot of ways.

803
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: Exactly.

804
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break,

805
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: pay some bills and we'll be right back. All right,

806
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: ba fam, we're back. As a producer, can you can

807
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: we go back to that where you're talking about producer

808
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: because you talk about like you know, getting a getting

809
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: a mall or getting murda for a film. You're a

810
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: very hands on producer, like really helping build the well.

811
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: You tell me, as a producer, what do you do

812
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: day to day? And like, for someone who's interested in

813
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: pursuing that, would you talk about that job?

814
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 2: I wish there was another word for the type of

815
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: producing that I do and that others do, because producers

816
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: is very vague word that you know, anybody can get nowadays,

817
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: Like people put celebrities on on projects that may not

818
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: have done any hands on producing, but you know they

819
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: are using their likeness and their network or money or

820
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: whatever resources and they can still get like the big

821
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: P producer credit is what we call it. But what

822
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: I do and what I have done on projects is

823
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: exactly what you said, be very hands on. And so

824
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: I like to explain to people who haven't heard what

825
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: producing is. I tell them to, like, look at the

826
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: credits into a movie, and it's a lot of them,

827
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,479
Speaker 2: typically even a short film. And if you look at those,

828
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: the producers are the ones hiring all of those people

829
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: and and and making sure everyone on that list works

830
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: well together and is all clued in on the vision,

831
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: the creative vision for what our leader, which is our director,

832
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: wants and so and our job is to protect our

833
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: cre the creative vision for the director. So uh that

834
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: as far as like actual tangible things. I can name

835
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 2: a few of them, but like we're in charge of

836
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 2: setting up our all of our accounting, so like getting

837
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 2: our accounting team together in payroll and hiring an attorney

838
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: in an or a legal team to be able to

839
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: uh go through to create contracts for every single person

840
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: that's going to be in our crew. We are in

841
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: touch with the project from like the time that the

842
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: script is born all the way to wherever the film

843
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: ends up living, whether that is being distributed on Apple

844
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 2: or through with Neon or A twenty four, or it's

845
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: just going through film festivals, or it has an impact

846
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: campaign and shown in schools and by nonprofits, et cetera,

847
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: et cetera. Like the producer is with the project the longest,

848
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: and we touch every single part of production. We touch

849
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 2: the cast, and we touch the crew above the line

850
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 2: crew and below the line crew, and us as like

851
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 2: big p producers, we typically are also on set every

852
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: single day. Where you have some like vanity producers who

853
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: are just who you know. They show up like one

854
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 2: once or twice and that's it. But like I'm on

855
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: set every single day in the trenches with the team

856
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: putting out fires, and I will say I've seen this

857
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: more in like indie projects because we don't have as

858
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: much money or resources where we can just like sit

859
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: by monitor and chill. But we're usually like putting out fires.

860
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: And I've said, like we're firefighters because there's always going

861
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: to be a fire on every production, and it's our

862
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: job to make sure that the director is able to

863
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,479
Speaker 2: keep going and direct their scenes and get what they want,

864
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: and we're kind of protecting them from all the madness

865
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: that's happening around them.

866
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: You're like a COO exactly, Chief operating.

867
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: Office, Yes, sir, exactly, Yeah, exactly, Okay.

868
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: CEO is a visionary yeah, COO is executioner, done all

869
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: the pieces.

870
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: And you're out catering how everyone's going to eat or

871
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: like how many chairs that you are going to have

872
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: to for extra to sit you know what I mean?

873
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: And this is if like you don't have a look,

874
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: you don't have money to have a locations person or

875
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 2: it it is. It's a it's a role that like

876
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: encompasses anything and everything, but you're getting more, you're getting

877
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 2: it done.

878
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: And how do you get paid? Do you get paid?

879
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: Have you been paid for that kind of work or

880
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: is it like after your eyes got so big. Yeah.

881
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: So, like short films, which I don't typically produce anymore

882
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 2: because my rate is just to my rate is usually

883
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: like half the budget of whatever the short film is, okay,

884
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: and so I just can't have anymore.

885
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: As I had a project as a producer, You're like,

886
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: here's how much it would cost for this project for

887
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: me to be So Yeah.

888
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: What I've how I've like structured everything now is like

889
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: I can come on as a producer or a co producer,

890
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: or an associate producer or a consulting producer, and we

891
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: can do different rates depending on that. If I'm coming

892
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 2: on as like a big p producer, I already know that,

893
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: like sometimes my fee can be deferred, it'll be wrapped

894
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: up and like if we sell the film or like

895
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: I can get equity or back end uh like points

896
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: on the back end. I but but going forward, I

897
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: will I'll have a fee that I want to get

898
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: I know, I want to get paid this much upfront,

899
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: and then I'll have of fund money that I will

900
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: want on the on the back end as well as

901
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: part of like ownership of the film. So when it

902
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 2: sells and when it's streamed, I'll continue to get paid

903
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: on a project that I've worked on for years or

904
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,959
Speaker 2: I'm still working on even when it's it sells, that's

905
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: the goal, right, But I have not had that opportunity

906
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: necessarily yet. Like Colorbook, for example, we are in the

907
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: process of trying to sell that. So if and let

908
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: me just say when it sells, because it is, you know,

909
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 2: that's when, Like I deferred a lot of my rate,

910
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: which I will not do again, but I deferred a

911
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: lot of my rate. And so once our investors get

912
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: paid back, then everyone who has deferred pay gets paid back,

913
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: and then the waterfall begins of back end of like

914
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: depending on how many points you have. If you have

915
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 2: one percentage point of the producer's pool, it gets really heady,

916
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: but you get a percentage of whatever you own of

917
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: the films as the film continues to make money over time.

918
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: And then Yeah, I do a lot of consulting though too,

919
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: Like I'll come on and for like a thousand dollars

920
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: if they have a budget of twenty five thousand dollars,

921
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: and I'll be there to consult. That doesn't mean I'm

922
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 2: going to be on set every day or at all,

923
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 2: but I'll be consulting and helping them with their budget

924
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 2: or doing story or script notes or whatever they might need.

925
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: Or I'll do an hourly rate, or I do a

926
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 2: page count rate if they want me to focus more

927
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: on their script and do like intense script notes. So

928
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: they have a lot of different ways I can I

929
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: can make it work for filmmakers.

930
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: I'm curious about you know, over those four years, obviously

931
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: Color Book beautiful film. By the way, I had the

932
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to see that.

933
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: It was much premiere Mandy came to the world premiere. Yes, yeah, I'm.

934
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: Such a gorgeous film. Father Son story in Atlanta Story.

935
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: It was very like talk about Marta and the filming

936
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: that you did there, and you're with these films for

937
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: so long, like getting a little view into what you've done,

938
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: and then what my brother who's been on the show

939
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: has done, like he's in the film scene as well,

940
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: and you just you make these projects and then you

941
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: are like on the road, showing up at festivals all

942
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: over the country if you're lucky, right, But then you're

943
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: paying your own way most of the time.

944
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: Day.

945
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 2: Why are we doing that to I don't know, you.

946
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: Know, because if I get asked to go to a

947
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: conference to talk about doing.

948
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: You're getting paid to do it, yeah, you.

949
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: Know, for the most part, when you get to a

950
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: certain level, right And yeah, but y'all have such a

951
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: love of the craft right to do that. But it's

952
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: also a huge investment of time and money. Yes, And

953
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 1: at the same time, you're having to make ends meet somehow.

954
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: So can you talk about some of the like the

955
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: bridge opportunities bridge jobs you've had if you've been just

956
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: like cobbling together different you know, contract or part time work,

957
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: or have you gone back to full time to make

958
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: those ends meet while pursuing their creative passions.

959
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say the past four years, Like the first

960
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: year I left Deloid, I had some savings that like

961
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 2: really helped sustain the beginning of me trying to build

962
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: a production company. And I actually was surprisingly getting a

963
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 2: lot of contract work. Like I did some work for

964
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone, which was really cool. I got to produce

965
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 2: some like the Musicians a Musicians segment with Big Boy,

966
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: and I worked with Flomilly and lot Lotto and like,

967
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: and I did some short doc work that I got

968
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 2: paid decently on. And I worked with this company called

969
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: Straight to Tel in Atlanta that had me like on

970
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: retainer making COVID uh like we were demnking de monking

971
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: debunking COVID myths about about the vaccine and so like

972
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: I was on retainer with them, like doing lots of

973
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 2: different projects. I got to make a short film about

974
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: black women in fibroids that I also was on retainer

975
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: on with this company. Like so I was. I was

976
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: stead of working, I'd say, like the first two years,

977
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 2: and then once I took on color Book, I had

978
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 2: to stop everything because I like it took up one

979
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: hundred percent of my time and I knew that I

980
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 2: was not going to make any money for that like year.

981
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: Because you had deferred your pay right, which we said

982
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: we won't do again.

983
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 2: Now we won't do again.

984
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: And it will look at me when I say, I

985
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: have been exactly where you are.

986
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I will not do again. I would

987
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 2: not do again.

988
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: It's like writing my book because you get a book advance,

989
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: but you don't get that money until you do the book,

990
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of time to do the book.

991
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: I just saw that and energy, So you got to

992
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 1: let shit go that makes you money to do the

993
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: thing that I'll make you money in the future.

994
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, you're like the thing if I'm

995
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: guaranteed with film, because like we haven't sold the film

996
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: and it's been almost three years, you know what I mean.

997
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then even if you sell it, you

998
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: have to sell it for a certain amount so that

999
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: you even continue star have to pay your investors back.

1000
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 2: So like.

1001
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: You know, I have these streamers out there now, you

1002
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: would think that there'd be even more opportunity to sell

1003
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: a project like that. Can you talk about like what

1004
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: is the escape?

1005
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 2: Like right now it's not good. It's not good. Which

1006
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: is I was gonna say, like the first years were good,

1007
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: and then I'd say, like this last year and a

1008
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: half to two years has been rough and I've made

1009
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 2: If you look at my tax returns, it's awful, like awful.

1010
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 2: It's crazy to think, like, oh, I was twenty three

1011
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 2: making this much. I was on my way to making

1012
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: well over six figures at Deloitte, you know, doing the

1013
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: job I hated, and now I'm like doing what I

1014
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 2: love and just like you know, got food stamps all

1015
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: all the things, you know, And so it's been hard because,

1016
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 2: like like I said, you look at baby Kaya and

1017
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: I'm like looking at my life and I'm like, I

1018
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: wanted to be married by this time. I wanted to

1019
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: do this, by this time, I want to have kids.

1020
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 2: I'm like, I can't even I'm trying to figure out

1021
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: how to take care of my own self. And I'm

1022
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: just now getting back into dating after like not dating

1023
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: for five years and sacrificing that part of my life.

1024
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I I actually had to swallow my pride.

1025
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 2: I was door dashing and uber doing Uber eats for

1026
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: a year and a half, two years, i'd say, like

1027
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: right after we finished color Book That's when I started

1028
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: doing that. And then I got in a bad car

1029
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: Accidentuary January of this year. So I do think that

1030
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 2: was a wakeup call for me to stop door dashing

1031
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: because it was not not only was it not glamorous,

1032
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: but it just wasn't safe. And I didn't have a

1033
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: car for five months, so I had to figure something

1034
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 2: else out. But I recently started working part time at

1035
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 2: a wellness studio in Buckhead called Pause, and it's actually

1036
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: been really great for me so far. I've only been

1037
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 2: there for five weeks now, and I felt so free

1038
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: in my interview process for the first time because I

1039
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: was just very honest about everything. They know that I

1040
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 2: am a filmmaker, creative. They know that I burnt out

1041
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: for producing, and that I really wanted some part time,

1042
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: like stable work, and I wanted to do it in

1043
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 2: a field that was going to be beneficial for me

1044
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 2: and my health because I'm getting older and I'm like

1045
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 2: dealing with a lot a lot of things that I

1046
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: just didn't know I would have to deal with, Like

1047
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: I have high cholesterol. Now, I'm like, what is going on?

1048
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: And then we could talk for like another hour, But

1049
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 2: dealing with endometriosis and HPV and my short film, my

1050
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 2: solo directorial debut that's coming out next year, is all

1051
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: about that, and I'm like, Okay, I need to really

1052
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 2: pour in her pina. Yes, yes, yes, you wrote act?

1053
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: Are you acting? No?

1054
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: No? No, not acting with Pineapple Cut Pictures. Yes, we

1055
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: hope pretty heard that project. But yeah, I So it's

1056
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 2: been it's been nice, and I've had to, like, like

1057
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: I said, just kind of pull my ego aside and

1058
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 2: be like, you know what, Yeah, I'm gonna Yes, I

1059
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: just got finished with nine episodes a reasonable doubt, but

1060
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: that's not going to sustain me for the next year.

1061
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: You know. So I got a and I was already

1062
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: so behind before I booked a reasonable doubt financially, that

1063
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 2: like reasonable doubt helped me get here, you know, just here.

1064
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, I need to get here so

1065
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: I can get.

1066
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: Like residuals are happening.

1067
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean hopefully soon, you know, not soon,

1068
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: but but I don't know. I've heard the streaming model

1069
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: is so different as well, and that there's not a

1070
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 2: lot of residuals that come from streaming, so who knows,

1071
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 2: but that won't come for a while. So yeah, I

1072
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: was like, let me, let me, let me do this,

1073
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: but this is still giving me the flexibility to take

1074
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 2: on other work. I actually just signed on to be

1075
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: a field producer for a documentary called Midwife, and it's

1076
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 2: about black and brown midwives in Georgia, well around the country.

1077
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 2: They actually followed a or I think for the proof

1078
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: of concept, they followed a woman and a midwife in Chicago,

1079
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: but now they're focusing on Georgia for their feature. And

1080
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 2: this is a director. Her name's Mia Harvey and she

1081
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 2: she lives in the UK, but she's coming here to

1082
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 2: Atlanta for nine weeks and I'm going to be her

1083
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: field producer for all nine weeks, and so I'm going

1084
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 2: to be doing that and I get to work my

1085
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 2: my wellness shop as well.

1086
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: Oh that sounds okay. I'm really happy to I'm really

1087
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: glad to hear that. And thank you for your vulner

1088
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: your candid or vulnera. I hate to say vulnerability because

1089
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: that has some connotation of like there's some shame around it,

1090
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: but just thanks for the candor.

1091
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 2: There was shame. I know that there's maybe for years.

1092
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: So that's why I talk about it every interview, because

1093
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: like we don't talk about it enough, and it's something

1094
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: I struggled with for feeling unwanted and disgusting and all

1095
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 2: the things, and and it's something we should talk about

1096
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: because most women clear it and most people clear.

1097
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 1: Fellow survivor, yeah, yeah, but.

1098
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: I and I unfortunately have a severe strain that didn't

1099
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: clear by twenty five and I've you know, had to

1100
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: get a piece at my cervix from I'VE in twenty

1101
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: eighteen because I had pre cancer. So it was like

1102
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 2: I was like I got to talk about this because

1103
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 2: I wish I had someone talking to me about it

1104
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 2: when I was dealing with it, and still am but yeah, yeah,

1105
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 2: not to get to.

1106
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: You, to use your art in a way to tell them, Yeah.

1107
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: And to use comedy because it's dark comedy. So you're

1108
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: gonna laugh watch it. You're gonna feel uncomfortable, but you're

1109
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: going to laugh too, because like we got to talk

1110
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: about the pain with you know, a little bit of humor.

1111
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that you're still drawn to these

1112
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: projects that are very they're very feminist in nature, and

1113
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: they're really are tackling these issues that are central to

1114
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: our lives. I mean, the idea of talking about midwifery

1115
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: at a time with the black maternal health rate mortality

1116
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: rate is so high in Atlanta, Atlanta. I'm like, that's

1117
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: incredible too. Yeah, well reasonable doubt, I know that that

1118
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: was such a high. H How does it feel? I

1119
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: mean with that, with that opportunity, you're on set for

1120
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: those weeks and you're a part of that that core community.

1121
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: Do you have any insight or like advice for someone

1122
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: who's got this great opportunity You talked about wanting to

1123
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: be present on making those connections and planting some seeds

1124
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: during that that could potentially bear fruit, you know, down

1125
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: the line. While you have that opportunity.

1126
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's exactly what you said. I think

1127
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: building those connections while you have the opportunity, but not

1128
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 2: not doing it in a cringy like forced way. I

1129
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 2: was just so excited every day to show up and

1130
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: be there early, and whether I was in my trailer

1131
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 2: or being on set or in the hair and makeup

1132
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: trailer like I and sometimes I wasn't talking. I was

1133
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: just like letting my light and letting my like positive

1134
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: energy just radiate wherever I was. Whether it was that

1135
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: that was intimately between the my makeup artist Yvonne, who

1136
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 2: was who was, you know, beating my face, or whether

1137
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 2: that was like with my scene partner. I just tried

1138
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: to to like be a light and I didn't. I

1139
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: never was the loudest person in the room or trying

1140
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: to like ask the director of a million questions. But

1141
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 2: I showed up and I made sure that I knew

1142
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: my lines and I had done my character work, so

1143
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: that was never an issue. That's the first thing, like

1144
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: come up and show up for your job and be

1145
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 2: prepared for your job, because I have seen bad things

1146
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: happened when you then that doesn't happen with other people.

1147
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: But if you start there and just I think that

1148
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 2: allows you to be present because the work is already done.

1149
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: You're just there soaking up people and like making genuine

1150
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: connections with folks around you. And me getting to like

1151
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: watch Kyle Berry act or Brandy Evans act, who I

1152
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: had had the privilege of casting in Color Book. Those

1153
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: opportunities were just beautiful. And yeah, I never forced anything.

1154
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: I was just I was just there present.

1155
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as someone who knew you before, Like I

1156
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: really was able to just to to look at you

1157
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: but forget it was you a little bit. Oh, I

1158
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: was like, but she looks so much like you in

1159
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: real life with the glasses and like your natural hair

1160
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: and like gorgeous and stunning. But personality, why it is

1161
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: so different?

1162
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1163
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: Good? And just the nature of like who killed this girl?

1164
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: Who did it? Was it her?

1165
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: Could it be her? Not my baby? Kaya it was?

1166
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't know?

1167
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, Kristin has I had some dark side,

1168
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: but Kristin has way more.

1169
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,959
Speaker 1: What was your biggest like pinch me moment from the set,

1170
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: even before or after during shooting.

1171
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question, because I feel like I

1172
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: had so mean. I think it was Amy Anniobe who

1173
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 2: has done many episodes of Insecure, and she's the show

1174
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: runner of Survival of the Thickest. But she directed episode five,

1175
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 2: which was one of my biggest episodes. It was my

1176
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: first intimate scene I've ever done. But she faced timed

1177
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: to me the weekend before. Like to have a TV

1178
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: director as acclaim to accomplishes, she is FaceTime you and

1179
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 2: I talk to you for like an hour about your scene.

1180
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: And I was in LA for my birthday, so I

1181
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 2: was already on a high, but she facetiming. I got

1182
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 2: to talk to her, and she helped me, of course,

1183
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: like prepare for my intimate scene and just wanted to

1184
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: get to know me, and we got to talk and

1185
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 2: build the scene together. I told her like, hey, I'm

1186
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: my little like not concern, but like when we kiss,

1187
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: our glass is hitting each other because Tim also wears

1188
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 2: the glasses. And I was like, I was thinking, maybe

1189
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 2: we use that in our you know, like can we

1190
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 2: actually lean into that awkwardness. She was like, yes, yes,

1191
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 2: get yes, we can try that. Let's do it, and

1192
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: we did that and they kept it in the scene.

1193
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: And so I think, like getting to the place where

1194
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: a director is facetiming you and a director of a

1195
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: show that, like you are such a huge fan of

1196
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 2: and have done. She's done so much work on Insecure

1197
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 2: and and helped really build that show, and now she's

1198
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: show runner up Survival of the Thickest. I'm just like,

1199
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 2: I yeah, just that was a pinch me moment. I'm like, oh,

1200
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 2: I'm really in this show. I'm really a core character.

1201
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 2: And that was right in the middle of the season,

1202
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 2: so I felt like I had put in enough work

1203
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 2: to where I felt like they were not necessarily writing

1204
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: more for me, but every the writer's room that they

1205
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 2: knew who I was by that time, and they and

1206
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: who knows, I don't know if they did or not.

1207
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 2: My boyfriend thinks they did, but I could tell they

1208
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: were really like leaning into my strengths and and and

1209
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 2: just building this really amazing world for Kristen to play in.

1210
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: Such a satisfying arc, like such a satisfying now, Like,

1211
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: I just I'm just so excited for you. Because I

1212
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: love stories, I love film, I love TV, I love books,

1213
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: all of it. And when you have a character that

1214
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: gets that like big moment and a big twist and

1215
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: a big monologue at the end, and that it was

1216
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: your you know, first acting job and four years. Just

1217
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: huge congrats, And you know, and I I just feel,

1218
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: even from this conversation and just from knowing you that

1219
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: I know that you planted so many seeds that are

1220
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: going to bloom from that experience and that and I'm just, yeah,

1221
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: I'm genuinely happy for you too that you found this

1222
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: balance with this role with pause. I can't wait to

1223
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: come check out still little self care baby, because you're

1224
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: getting to do some self care that you've been working

1225
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: so hard for so long. Just what you said, I

1226
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: really identify with your workaholic nature in college and how

1227
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: that served you and how it served you in the

1228
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: corporate and building your early career. And then I really

1229
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: truly think our thirties are like for unlearning some of

1230
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: the strategies that made us successful because they're not sustainable

1231
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: at all. And it's like, oh, so, how do we

1232
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: untangle these how do we un you know, pull apart

1233
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: these threads this like not that we've created with all

1234
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: these habits and replace them with new healthier ones. Yeah, yeah,

1235
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 1: still be successful, but not in a toxic way that

1236
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna like be really second ill and burnt out exactly.

1237
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 2: You know, So yeah, it's so important. Well, I can't.

1238
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: I cannot thank you enough for for sharing yourself with

1239
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: us at Brown Ambition and for sharing your story. I

1240
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: meant it when I said your Brown Ambition personified. I mean,

1241
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: look at this girl, come on now, this story?

1242
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: Thank you? Andy? Well? So are you so? I'm inspired

1243
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 2: by you always and how you do it all and

1244
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 2: a mother as well. I'm just like girl goals because

1245
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 2: I'm not there yet, but you truly do it all.

1246
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: You just let me know we want to talk about that? Okay,

1247
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: how will you interview me about that? I'll let you

1248
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: know the real real line. What can well? How can

1249
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: be a fan show up for you? Right now? We

1250
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: all have to go stream Reasonable Doubt on Hulu and

1251
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, leave those reviews and talk about it and

1252
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: share the show. But how else can we support any

1253
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: projects we can support? Check out?

1254
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't have an announcement of where Her Vagina

1255
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 2: is going to premiere yet, but I would love if

1256
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 2: you all follow me at kayak Kiah Dot Alexandria A

1257
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 2: l e x A and d r I A and

1258
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: my production company at kaya Can Productions, where I will

1259
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: be posting all things about her pretty Vagina in twenty

1260
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 2: twenty six. That is going to be my solo directorial debut,

1261
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 2: so all my energy is going to be going into

1262
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: that next year. I'll be flooding your timelines with all

1263
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 2: things women's health, INDO, fibroids, cyst HPB, all of the

1264
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 2: I love it, I love and we're all gonna love it.

1265
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would love if you'all like support that project.

1266
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 2: Sarcast and who have been waiting like anxiously, and I'm

1267
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 2: really really proud of that project. And I'm doing a

1268
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 2: lot of unlearning like I did with acting when it

1269
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 2: comes to festivals and not getting selected for Sunday and

1270
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 2: or south By Southwest or you know, and just doing

1271
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 2: a lot of them learning with that on the filmmaking

1272
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: side of things now. But I'm so excited to wherever

1273
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 2: it's going to land, and I know our premiere is

1274
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 2: going to be beautiful.

1275
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, we're going to put your social handles

1276
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: in the show notes. And I mean, if there's one

1277
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: thing I've learned, it's like show up to those film

1278
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: festivals and like go support your local into indie artists,

1279
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: because if you don't show up to those festivals, you

1280
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: really can't see that outside of those.

1281
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: Festivals, likes say, which is very hard.

1282
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: Because so many of these projects, right they don't get

1283
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: bought and distributed. So it's been a pleasure to for

1284
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: me to feel like being a little seeing a little

1285
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: bit of window into that space has made me want

1286
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,479
Speaker 1: to go support these like local festivals a lot more.

1287
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: And all right, so best of luck with her Pretty Vagina.

1288
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: That's the short come coming out in twenty twenty six.

1289
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna go follow Kaya on all social channels. I

1290
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: hope to have you back on the show someday and

1291
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Speaker 1: just thank you so much. Okaba fan, thank you so

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01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. I will see y'all next time.

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01:07:54,640 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: Bye bye. And before I go, Ba fam, I want

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01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: to shout out the team that helps make Brown Ambition possible.

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01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: Huge thanks to my fam at iHeartRadio, Katrina Norvel and

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01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: Jenna Cagel, my worker Bees, behind the scenes, booking assistant

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01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 1: Brittany Laier and virtual assistant Cameron McNair who keep me organized,

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01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: and of course my editor Courtney Dean. Thank y'all so

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01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: much for supporting the show. If you love Brown Ambition,

1300
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: share it with a friend. Tag us on social and

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01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: don't forget to leave a comment or review until next time.

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Speaker 1: By ba Fam