1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:15,506 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:25,216 --> 00:00:28,616 Speaker 2: Rick Forsberg's temper was legendary in Montanito. 3 00:00:29,516 --> 00:00:31,696 Speaker 3: When he'd get in a fight, he'd flex his chest. 4 00:00:31,736 --> 00:00:36,796 Speaker 3: We called him Cobra. He just pretty much turned crazy. 5 00:00:38,036 --> 00:00:42,016 Speaker 3: It was weird seeing him go from gentle Rick or 6 00:00:42,396 --> 00:00:44,676 Speaker 3: calm Rick to a madman here. 7 00:00:46,746 --> 00:00:51,296 Speaker 2: This is his childhood friend, Jay Engelschall, again. Jay says 8 00:00:51,656 --> 00:00:53,036 Speaker 2: Rick seemed to enjoy fighting. 9 00:00:53,056 --> 00:00:57,556 Speaker 3: He'd get in fights, and then he'd go back for more. 10 00:00:58,036 --> 00:01:01,096 Speaker 3: And there was a couple times at a party, every 11 00:01:01,136 --> 00:01:05,626 Speaker 3: time these two guys met, they'd fight. And a few times, 12 00:01:05,766 --> 00:01:07,866 Speaker 3: Rick would get better at him, and he'd get better 13 00:01:08,086 --> 00:01:12,666 Speaker 3: at Rick, but they didn't like each other. I remember 14 00:01:12,706 --> 00:01:16,926 Speaker 3: them bickering. both going to the hospital, I think, getting stitches, 15 00:01:16,976 --> 00:01:18,686 Speaker 3: and then they came back and fought some more. 16 00:01:19,946 --> 00:01:24,146 Speaker 2: When he was enraged, Rick's strength seemed almost superhuman. 17 00:01:25,126 --> 00:01:28,866 Speaker 3: He would take over the situation just by being aggressive, 18 00:01:29,066 --> 00:01:32,206 Speaker 3: real loud, and mad or whatever. 19 00:01:33,056 --> 00:01:36,116 Speaker 2: Jay remembers seeing a girlfriend of Rick's try to intervene 20 00:01:36,196 --> 00:01:37,476 Speaker 2: when he was losing control. 21 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:43,816 Speaker 3: She's trying to calm him down, and he's getting really agitated, loud, 22 00:01:43,836 --> 00:01:46,316 Speaker 3: and he's He picks up a ladder and he spins 23 00:01:46,376 --> 00:01:48,236 Speaker 3: it around and he hits her in the face with 24 00:01:48,296 --> 00:01:50,576 Speaker 3: it on accident, but it hit her in the face 25 00:01:50,656 --> 00:01:56,076 Speaker 3: and then she was all upset and it just escalates, 26 00:01:56,116 --> 00:02:00,506 Speaker 3: you know, it just keeps escalating from there. He was 27 00:02:00,586 --> 00:02:05,006 Speaker 3: usually using drugs and he would get pretty violent sometimes. 28 00:02:05,806 --> 00:02:09,066 Speaker 2: Jay says Rick started abusing women as a young man. 29 00:02:09,086 --> 00:02:15,786 Speaker 3: I remember most of his relationships He'd get violent with 30 00:02:15,826 --> 00:02:20,546 Speaker 3: his girlfriend. That wasn't good. Nobody wants to see that. 31 00:02:21,566 --> 00:02:24,246 Speaker 3: We'd all step in if something like that happened. 32 00:02:26,146 --> 00:02:29,156 Speaker 2: Jay's brother Bill also remembers trying to get Rick to 33 00:02:29,216 --> 00:02:33,056 Speaker 2: stand down. It was such a close community. They were 34 00:02:33,116 --> 00:02:36,096 Speaker 2: friends with Rick and the young women he beat up. 35 00:02:37,016 --> 00:02:43,766 Speaker 1: Like Rick, his girlfriend was, he used to beat her. 36 00:02:44,976 --> 00:02:48,216 Speaker 1: When they'd argue, he'd punch her. She'd take off running. 37 00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:50,986 Speaker 1: Sometimes she'd run to my house and hide, you know, 38 00:02:51,086 --> 00:02:53,746 Speaker 1: and he'd come over and I'd stand up to him. 39 00:02:53,786 --> 00:02:55,926 Speaker 1: He'd kick my ass, but I'd stand up to him. 40 00:02:55,946 --> 00:02:59,546 Speaker 1: He wouldn't hit me. You know, it's like, go ahead, 41 00:02:59,586 --> 00:02:59,926 Speaker 1: hit me. 42 00:03:00,506 --> 00:03:01,526 Speaker 3: No, he never did. 43 00:03:01,546 --> 00:03:05,646 Speaker 2: And you would stand between Rick and her, but did 44 00:03:05,686 --> 00:03:11,676 Speaker 2: you ever tell him separately, like, you have to stop this? 45 00:03:11,756 --> 00:03:13,076 Speaker 2: Is this terrible what you're doing? 46 00:03:13,356 --> 00:03:14,136 Speaker 4: Well, of course. Yeah. 47 00:03:14,596 --> 00:03:17,646 Speaker 1: You know, but it didn't do any good. He was 48 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:18,866 Speaker 1: going to do what he was going to do. 49 00:03:20,666 --> 00:03:24,546 Speaker 2: Over time, though, as Rick became a hardened abuser, some 50 00:03:24,586 --> 00:03:29,746 Speaker 2: women would go to the police for help. Woman after woman, girlfriend, 51 00:03:29,946 --> 00:03:33,626 Speaker 2: domestic partner, the mother of his only child, they all 52 00:03:33,746 --> 00:03:38,636 Speaker 2: sought protection from him. If we're going to understand Rick Forsberg, 53 00:03:39,096 --> 00:03:42,026 Speaker 2: and what he might have been capable of, will need 54 00:03:42,046 --> 00:03:46,946 Speaker 2: the help of women. Women who knew him. Women he hurt. 55 00:03:52,056 --> 00:03:55,516 Speaker 2: I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is Lost Hills. 56 00:03:55,536 --> 00:04:00,016 Speaker 5: Lost Hills. 57 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:30,316 Speaker 2: Episode 9, Fearful Witness. Throughout his adult life, Rick exhibited 58 00:04:30,336 --> 00:04:35,356 Speaker 2: a toxic mix of good looks, charm, and drug-fueled physical aggression. 59 00:04:36,196 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 2: Many women fell into his trap or were dragged into it. 60 00:04:40,796 --> 00:04:43,756 Speaker 2: Haley and I start calling around. We want to talk 61 00:04:43,796 --> 00:04:48,236 Speaker 2: to Leslie Alston, the mother of Rick's son, Ricky. In 62 00:04:48,276 --> 00:04:51,786 Speaker 2: a restraining order she requested in 2012, She cited a 63 00:04:51,826 --> 00:04:55,366 Speaker 2: history of violence against her and her son. She said 64 00:04:55,406 --> 00:04:58,416 Speaker 2: she'd been trying to avoid Rick for more than seven years, 65 00:04:58,876 --> 00:05:01,196 Speaker 2: but he researched her to find out where she lived. 66 00:05:02,396 --> 00:05:05,636 Speaker 2: She never responded to our calls and emails, but the 67 00:05:05,676 --> 00:05:10,066 Speaker 2: women who would talk had terrifying stories. Rick had a 68 00:05:10,106 --> 00:05:16,016 Speaker 2: history of strangling women and threatening them with murder. According 69 00:05:16,076 --> 00:05:19,416 Speaker 2: to court documents, one of Rick's victims attested that when 70 00:05:19,456 --> 00:05:21,266 Speaker 2: he attacked her, he told her he was going to 71 00:05:21,306 --> 00:05:24,326 Speaker 2: kill her. Then he called her from prison, where he'd 72 00:05:24,346 --> 00:05:27,146 Speaker 2: been sent after assaulting her and the two deputies who 73 00:05:27,186 --> 00:05:30,826 Speaker 2: came to her aid, and said, quote, I was told 74 00:05:30,866 --> 00:05:33,256 Speaker 2: that if I hurt you again, I can do 15 75 00:05:33,256 --> 00:05:36,856 Speaker 2: years in here. Since you are the problem, the solution 76 00:05:36,976 --> 00:05:40,176 Speaker 2: is to kill you, because murder only carries 10 years, 77 00:05:40,496 --> 00:05:45,216 Speaker 2: less five years off for good behavior, unquote. Testifying at 78 00:05:45,316 --> 00:05:49,996 Speaker 2: Rick's parole revocation hearing, she described herself as a fearful witness. 79 00:05:51,696 --> 00:05:54,586 Speaker 2: It's been more than 30 years since the assault, but 80 00:05:54,626 --> 00:05:57,326 Speaker 2: she pleaded with us not to use her name, citing 81 00:05:57,406 --> 00:06:02,246 Speaker 2: severe PTSD. Knowing that Rick is dead did little to 82 00:06:02,306 --> 00:06:07,566 Speaker 2: assuage her fear. Among all of Rick's victims, one woman, 83 00:06:07,866 --> 00:06:12,116 Speaker 2: Darian Merrick, stands out. She was his last serious girlfriend. 84 00:06:13,196 --> 00:06:17,756 Speaker 4: They were both very physical with each other. But they 85 00:06:17,796 --> 00:06:20,056 Speaker 4: loved each other just as much as they would fight, too. 86 00:06:20,156 --> 00:06:23,306 Speaker 4: You know, that's just one of those relationships. It's addicting 87 00:06:23,366 --> 00:06:25,766 Speaker 4: and chaotic and hard to get out of. 88 00:06:26,946 --> 00:06:31,446 Speaker 2: This is Cherie Amick again. She's Rick's biggest defender. And 89 00:06:31,486 --> 00:06:34,706 Speaker 2: so maybe it's not surprising to hear her say Darian 90 00:06:34,766 --> 00:06:35,506 Speaker 2: provoked Rick. 91 00:06:36,686 --> 00:06:38,976 Speaker 4: She would just, like, slap him across the face in 92 00:06:38,996 --> 00:06:43,116 Speaker 4: front of everybody. You know, and I'd be like, Oh 93 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:45,216 Speaker 4: my God, did you really just do that? Like we 94 00:06:45,256 --> 00:06:47,696 Speaker 4: were all hanging out and everything would be fine. You know, 95 00:06:47,716 --> 00:06:50,176 Speaker 4: everything would be fine. And we've been talking, everyone's doing 96 00:06:50,196 --> 00:06:52,976 Speaker 4: their own thing and everyone's happy making dinner. And then 97 00:06:53,016 --> 00:06:54,996 Speaker 4: she would do stuff like that. And he's like, you 98 00:06:55,016 --> 00:06:56,986 Speaker 4: got to get her away from me. You got to 99 00:06:56,996 --> 00:06:59,266 Speaker 4: get her away from me. That's how it always was. 100 00:07:00,006 --> 00:07:01,886 Speaker 4: You know, you got to help me get away from her. 101 00:07:02,186 --> 00:07:03,186 Speaker 4: But they would always go back. 102 00:07:05,066 --> 00:07:08,966 Speaker 2: Darian was a classic Rick Forsberg love interest. a natural 103 00:07:09,006 --> 00:07:12,916 Speaker 2: beauty with beachy blonde hair, light eyes, and a perpetual tan. 104 00:07:13,696 --> 00:07:16,296 Speaker 2: Her father was an Olympic hurdler with a bronze medal. 105 00:07:16,776 --> 00:07:20,336 Speaker 2: Her mother was a former competitive skier and model. She'd 106 00:07:20,356 --> 00:07:23,136 Speaker 2: grown up near Zuma Beach and married the eldest son 107 00:07:23,256 --> 00:07:26,886 Speaker 2: of Malibu's most prominent judge. Their son grew up to 108 00:07:26,926 --> 00:07:30,406 Speaker 2: be a detective in the sheriff's department. At the time 109 00:07:30,466 --> 00:07:33,666 Speaker 2: Darian met Rick, she and her husband had divorced, and 110 00:07:33,706 --> 00:07:38,006 Speaker 2: she was spiraling into full-blown addiction. Rick was fresh out 111 00:07:38,046 --> 00:07:43,146 Speaker 2: of prison. His offense? Slamming his white Mitsubishi Mighty Max 112 00:07:43,266 --> 00:07:47,296 Speaker 2: pickup truck into a tree on Topanga Canyon Boulevard while 113 00:07:47,336 --> 00:07:51,876 Speaker 2: driving barefoot and drunk. The arresting officer reported that beer 114 00:07:51,916 --> 00:07:55,356 Speaker 2: cans flew out of the car on impact. The police 115 00:07:55,396 --> 00:07:58,016 Speaker 2: report says that Rick was unconscious and had to be 116 00:07:58,076 --> 00:08:01,676 Speaker 2: extracted by cutting open the cab. He was sentenced to 117 00:08:01,676 --> 00:08:07,166 Speaker 2: 28 months in prison. By 2006, Rick and Darian were 118 00:08:07,206 --> 00:08:10,226 Speaker 2: living in a place called the Malibu Canyon Apartments, a 119 00:08:10,266 --> 00:08:15,266 Speaker 2: complex on Las Virginas, near the intersection with the 101 freeway. Cherie, 120 00:08:15,416 --> 00:08:17,336 Speaker 2: who was caught up in the party scene back then, 121 00:08:17,616 --> 00:08:18,406 Speaker 2: had a name for it. 122 00:08:19,296 --> 00:08:22,056 Speaker 4: What was that stupid show, Melrose Place? We were Hellrose Place, 123 00:08:22,076 --> 00:08:24,546 Speaker 4: because that's what we were. It was total Hellrose. Oh, 124 00:08:24,576 --> 00:08:27,556 Speaker 4: my God. Idiots. Total idiots. 125 00:08:28,536 --> 00:08:32,176 Speaker 2: Rick was in full-on Cobra mode, amped up and paranoid 126 00:08:32,236 --> 00:08:35,056 Speaker 2: and on a hair-trigger. His eyes glazed over. 127 00:08:35,816 --> 00:08:38,876 Speaker 4: He was always kind of on the edge, no matter what. 128 00:08:38,956 --> 00:08:42,136 Speaker 4: Rick was always on the edge. You know, that's why 129 00:08:42,156 --> 00:08:44,336 Speaker 4: he would stay here, because, you know, his mom and 130 00:08:44,356 --> 00:08:48,036 Speaker 4: dad wouldn't put up with that crap. And, you know, 131 00:08:48,116 --> 00:08:53,256 Speaker 4: and I try to always talk to Rick, you know, because, honestly, 132 00:08:53,516 --> 00:08:57,176 Speaker 4: back to the out-of-control times, I was never fearful of him. 133 00:08:57,196 --> 00:09:00,456 Speaker 4: And I could get through. 134 00:09:00,476 --> 00:09:02,716 Speaker 2: I could get through anything. 135 00:09:03,196 --> 00:09:05,996 Speaker 4: That glaze, you know, which is very hard. 136 00:09:05,896 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 1: To do. 137 00:09:07,846 --> 00:09:08,366 Speaker 3: And risky. 138 00:09:09,236 --> 00:09:11,646 Speaker 4: But I had no fear. It was just, I was 139 00:09:11,686 --> 00:09:14,026 Speaker 4: going to do that. I was going to take care 140 00:09:14,046 --> 00:09:14,286 Speaker 4: of it. 141 00:09:15,966 --> 00:09:20,906 Speaker 2: Cherie saw Rick and Darian's volatile relationship firsthand. She says 142 00:09:21,146 --> 00:09:24,266 Speaker 2: Rick and Darian would spar, Darian would call the cops, 143 00:09:24,606 --> 00:09:26,786 Speaker 2: and he'd run straight to her place. 144 00:09:28,126 --> 00:09:29,586 Speaker 4: So night after night, that shit would happen. 145 00:09:29,606 --> 00:09:29,676 Speaker 3: And. 146 00:09:31,706 --> 00:09:33,326 Speaker 4: He came over. He said, true, you've got to get 147 00:09:33,366 --> 00:09:35,866 Speaker 4: me out of here. The cops are coming. And so 148 00:09:35,946 --> 00:09:38,646 Speaker 4: I took off. I was like, let's go. I'll get 149 00:09:38,666 --> 00:09:39,006 Speaker 4: you out. 150 00:09:40,226 --> 00:09:42,166 Speaker 2: Rick and Darian were in a doom spiral. 151 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:47,456 Speaker 4: And of course, with alcohol involved, I mean, the switch is, 152 00:09:47,676 --> 00:09:49,996 Speaker 4: it's going to crash every time. You know what I'm saying? 153 00:09:50,776 --> 00:09:57,036 Speaker 4: And it was awful because they would fight and he 154 00:09:57,056 --> 00:09:59,616 Speaker 4: would come to my house and And she would be 155 00:09:59,656 --> 00:10:04,906 Speaker 4: calling and harassing and egging the whole thing on. I'm 156 00:10:04,926 --> 00:10:06,956 Speaker 4: going to call the cops on you. And, you know, 157 00:10:06,976 --> 00:10:09,796 Speaker 4: he's like, I can't. I'm on probation. Like, I got 158 00:10:09,816 --> 00:10:10,316 Speaker 4: to stay. 159 00:10:10,176 --> 00:10:10,696 Speaker 6: Away from her. 160 00:10:11,236 --> 00:10:14,396 Speaker 4: You know, I can't do this. And that's when, you know, 161 00:10:14,416 --> 00:10:18,486 Speaker 4: I was going, I'm out of control, too. You know, 162 00:10:18,586 --> 00:10:19,706 Speaker 4: we were all out of control. 163 00:10:22,406 --> 00:10:26,586 Speaker 2: In April of 2006, Rick attacked Darian and was charged 164 00:10:26,646 --> 00:10:31,396 Speaker 2: with two felonies. corporal injury resulting in traumatic condition and 165 00:10:31,496 --> 00:10:35,936 Speaker 2: assault by means likely to produce great bodily injury. He 166 00:10:35,956 --> 00:10:39,156 Speaker 2: was convicted on the corporal injury charge and sentenced to 167 00:10:39,216 --> 00:10:43,506 Speaker 2: three years in state prison. At a sentencing hearing, the 168 00:10:43,546 --> 00:10:47,806 Speaker 2: prosecutor recommended that he refrain from contact with Darian. He 169 00:10:47,866 --> 00:10:52,286 Speaker 2: could not even write to her from prison. Rick protested. 170 00:10:52,566 --> 00:10:54,936 Speaker 2: He said it wasn't fair. They were planning to get 171 00:10:55,036 --> 00:10:59,136 Speaker 2: married when he was released. Darian was present in the courtroom. 172 00:10:59,796 --> 00:11:01,866 Speaker 2: When she was asked if she had anything to say 173 00:11:01,926 --> 00:11:07,766 Speaker 2: about the protective order, she tellingly said no. Something else 174 00:11:07,806 --> 00:11:11,846 Speaker 2: that I find telling? Darian drank herself to death in 175 00:11:11,906 --> 00:11:16,556 Speaker 2: March 2009, shortly before the protective order would have expired. 176 00:11:19,736 --> 00:11:23,436 Speaker 2: In July 2009, Rick got out of prison and returned 177 00:11:23,496 --> 00:11:27,776 Speaker 2: to Montanito. He crashed with Cherie's family and other friends. 178 00:11:28,516 --> 00:11:31,876 Speaker 2: He built his fort, drank his beers, did his drugs, 179 00:11:32,236 --> 00:11:36,586 Speaker 2: and mourned the loss of Darian. And when Mitrice made 180 00:11:36,616 --> 00:11:39,606 Speaker 2: her way to Montanito on September 17, 2009, there Rick was. 181 00:11:39,906 --> 00:11:40,186 Speaker 1: Waiting. 182 00:11:40,266 --> 00:12:01,106 Speaker 2: Waiting. Two women told us about encounters they'd had with 183 00:12:01,206 --> 00:12:05,246 Speaker 2: Rick around the time of Mitrice's 2009 disappearance that left 184 00:12:05,286 --> 00:12:08,426 Speaker 2: them shaken. One of them was a woman who said 185 00:12:08,486 --> 00:12:10,446 Speaker 2: that Rick had been her boyfriend when she was a 186 00:12:10,506 --> 00:12:14,126 Speaker 2: young teenager living in Montanito. And one day, when she 187 00:12:14,166 --> 00:12:17,486 Speaker 2: was 18 and he was maybe 20 or 21, he 188 00:12:17,526 --> 00:12:22,406 Speaker 2: came into her house and tried to strangle her. Decades passed, 189 00:12:23,026 --> 00:12:27,216 Speaker 2: in which she avoided him at all costs. And then, 190 00:12:27,416 --> 00:12:29,786 Speaker 2: in 2009 or 10, she stopped for a hitchhiker in 191 00:12:29,806 --> 00:12:33,066 Speaker 2: Malibu Canyon. To her dismay, it turned out to be Rick. 192 00:12:34,346 --> 00:12:37,946 Speaker 2: He was acting crazy, she says. He grabbed the steering wheel, 193 00:12:38,106 --> 00:12:40,186 Speaker 2: and she was afraid they'd plunge over the edge of 194 00:12:40,226 --> 00:12:42,766 Speaker 2: the canyon. He invited her to go up to his 195 00:12:42,876 --> 00:12:46,316 Speaker 2: spot off Paiuma Road. And then he forced a kiss 196 00:12:46,396 --> 00:12:50,776 Speaker 2: on her. Not long afterwards, she says, Rick left a 197 00:12:50,816 --> 00:12:54,256 Speaker 2: message on her answering machine. He sounded like a demon. 198 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:57,896 Speaker 2: and he was furious that she'd rejected him. He told 199 00:12:57,936 --> 00:13:00,676 Speaker 2: her he was going to dice her up and kill her. 200 00:13:02,096 --> 00:13:05,056 Speaker 2: When she heard about Mitrice Richardson, the woman says, she 201 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:08,116 Speaker 2: called Lost Hill Station and begged them to look into Rick. 202 00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:11,166 Speaker 2: She says no one ever followed up. 203 00:13:14,826 --> 00:13:15,266 Speaker 5: Karen? 204 00:13:15,866 --> 00:13:20,126 Speaker 7: Yes. Hi, it's Dana. This is the recorded line. Okay. 205 00:13:20,826 --> 00:13:24,176 Speaker 2: The other woman is Karen McKellar. She also dated Rick 206 00:13:24,216 --> 00:13:24,896 Speaker 2: as a teenager. 207 00:13:24,916 --> 00:13:28,896 Speaker 7: I just thought he was like the cat's meow, but 208 00:13:28,956 --> 00:13:31,336 Speaker 7: what an idiot I was. I was just a dumb 209 00:13:32,156 --> 00:13:37,026 Speaker 7: girl with no, you know, just dumb. Smoking pot and 210 00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:39,346 Speaker 7: drinking booze and just thinking I was cool with the 211 00:13:39,446 --> 00:13:42,506 Speaker 7: people and they were all idiots. Little did I know 212 00:13:42,546 --> 00:13:45,246 Speaker 7: I was going all the way in the wrong direction 213 00:13:45,306 --> 00:13:49,186 Speaker 7: in life and I thought it was cool until I 214 00:13:49,206 --> 00:13:49,956 Speaker 7: got snared. 215 00:13:50,946 --> 00:13:53,406 Speaker 2: The relationship left her with permanent scars. 216 00:13:54,506 --> 00:14:01,176 Speaker 7: He really broke my heart. He wasn't abusive physically, but 217 00:14:01,216 --> 00:14:05,396 Speaker 7: he abused me mentally as far as the relationship went. 218 00:14:05,916 --> 00:14:11,276 Speaker 7: And he would screw around with everybody, all the other girls. And, 219 00:14:12,116 --> 00:14:15,876 Speaker 7: I mean, I had, unfortunately, and I'm not proud of it, 220 00:14:15,946 --> 00:14:18,546 Speaker 7: two abortions from that guy, and he never even went. 221 00:14:19,256 --> 00:14:21,256 Speaker 7: With me, he was just a schmuck. 222 00:14:22,536 --> 00:14:24,556 Speaker 2: Karen kept tabs on Rick for a while. 223 00:14:25,596 --> 00:14:28,016 Speaker 7: We were broken up, but I still knew of him. 224 00:14:28,876 --> 00:14:31,036 Speaker 7: And so I would see Rick and he would be 225 00:14:31,096 --> 00:14:35,476 Speaker 7: high on angel dust or whatever, driving down the canyon. 226 00:14:36,296 --> 00:14:40,326 Speaker 7: And he was obviously we knew it is that he 227 00:14:40,376 --> 00:14:44,746 Speaker 7: was really getting messed up like that, where he was 228 00:14:44,826 --> 00:14:47,486 Speaker 7: driving like 10 miles an hour in the canyon where 229 00:14:47,506 --> 00:14:50,426 Speaker 7: you're supposed to be going 50. And we pulled him 230 00:14:50,546 --> 00:14:52,666 Speaker 7: over and said, Rick, what are you doing? And he 231 00:14:52,706 --> 00:14:56,686 Speaker 7: was like way out there high by himself, naked in 232 00:14:56,706 --> 00:15:00,126 Speaker 7: the car driving. So I was like, oh my God. 233 00:15:00,806 --> 00:15:03,306 Speaker 7: He was just off the hook. So yeah, he was 234 00:15:03,406 --> 00:15:06,206 Speaker 7: experimenting and doing a lot of angel dust when he 235 00:15:06,226 --> 00:15:11,726 Speaker 7: was a kid. I think it's cow tranquilizer or something. Yeah, 236 00:15:11,786 --> 00:15:15,046 Speaker 7: I think that's what they... Because I used to smoke 237 00:15:15,066 --> 00:15:15,466 Speaker 7: it too, but. 238 00:15:17,666 --> 00:15:20,786 Speaker 7: He never stopped. You know, there was a point where, like, okay, 239 00:15:20,806 --> 00:15:24,246 Speaker 7: you gotta stop. This stuff is twisting your brain. 240 00:15:25,106 --> 00:15:28,046 Speaker 2: After going through her own struggles with addiction, Karen got 241 00:15:28,106 --> 00:15:31,306 Speaker 2: sober and devoted her adult life to helping women recover 242 00:15:31,346 --> 00:15:37,086 Speaker 2: from substance abuse. Then one day, she thinks it was 243 00:15:37,126 --> 00:15:41,286 Speaker 2: somewhere around 2009 or 2010, Rick popped into her head, 244 00:15:41,586 --> 00:15:42,206 Speaker 2: and she called him up. 245 00:15:43,366 --> 00:15:48,376 Speaker 7: I was in L.A. helping people, and, um, He said, yeah, 246 00:15:48,396 --> 00:15:52,036 Speaker 7: come on out, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I thought, well, maybe, 247 00:15:52,056 --> 00:15:54,936 Speaker 7: you know, like an idiot. So I went out there 248 00:15:54,956 --> 00:15:57,816 Speaker 7: and I got on the bus and went out there 249 00:15:57,836 --> 00:15:59,886 Speaker 7: and they picked me up and he was very polite, 250 00:15:59,926 --> 00:16:00,466 Speaker 7: very nice. 251 00:16:01,426 --> 00:16:04,086 Speaker 2: At first, she was kind of excited. Rick was still 252 00:16:04,126 --> 00:16:06,566 Speaker 2: good looking and he was always a neat freak and 253 00:16:06,606 --> 00:16:08,926 Speaker 2: into personal hygiene. So he presented well. 254 00:16:10,006 --> 00:16:13,536 Speaker 7: But after a little bit, then he started getting high again. 255 00:16:14,096 --> 00:16:16,396 Speaker 7: when I was there, and it became apparent to me 256 00:16:16,436 --> 00:16:18,356 Speaker 7: that nothing had changed in his life. 257 00:16:19,256 --> 00:16:22,256 Speaker 2: Rick told Karen he lived with Laura and Ray Robbins, 258 00:16:22,536 --> 00:16:26,186 Speaker 2: Cherie Amick's parents. But he also told her about his fort. 259 00:16:27,086 --> 00:16:30,906 Speaker 7: Yeah, because when we were kids, he always had, like, 260 00:16:30,986 --> 00:16:34,546 Speaker 7: a fort, you know, in the mountains there. And so 261 00:16:34,586 --> 00:16:37,746 Speaker 7: when he was my boyfriend that I, you know, thought 262 00:16:37,766 --> 00:16:41,606 Speaker 7: I was so in love with as a 14-year-old, It 263 00:16:41,646 --> 00:16:44,406 Speaker 7: was like really cool, you know, like, oh, they would 264 00:16:44,446 --> 00:16:45,906 Speaker 7: go up there because we would go up there and 265 00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:49,866 Speaker 7: drink or whatever. And so he had built one up 266 00:16:49,906 --> 00:16:51,606 Speaker 7: there from Lawrence and he goes, come on, I want 267 00:16:51,626 --> 00:16:53,946 Speaker 7: to show you something. I got a little fort up 268 00:16:53,986 --> 00:16:55,466 Speaker 7: here and I go, are you serious? 269 00:16:56,586 --> 00:17:00,246 Speaker 2: Turns out Rick was just showering at the Robbins house, 270 00:17:00,886 --> 00:17:04,776 Speaker 2: hanging out there occasionally. He was living at his fort, 271 00:17:05,376 --> 00:17:09,616 Speaker 2: the fort off Paiuma Road. Karen humored him and went 272 00:17:09,716 --> 00:17:13,506 Speaker 2: up there with him. she remembers a small dugout, about 273 00:17:13,506 --> 00:17:14,826 Speaker 2: 8 by 10 feet. 274 00:17:15,966 --> 00:17:20,966 Speaker 7: I do remember two, like, lounge chairs or a lounge 275 00:17:21,186 --> 00:17:24,596 Speaker 7: chair or bed thing, and he slept on that, I guess. 276 00:17:24,976 --> 00:17:27,876 Speaker 7: I mean, he had little exits all over, if I 277 00:17:27,916 --> 00:17:31,796 Speaker 7: recall right. Like, you could go one way, and maybe 278 00:17:31,836 --> 00:17:34,176 Speaker 7: he did say he had pot up there. I can't, 279 00:17:34,736 --> 00:17:37,786 Speaker 7: but I remember he took me one way, and I 280 00:17:37,806 --> 00:17:39,686 Speaker 7: didn't see any pot plants, but he might have said 281 00:17:39,706 --> 00:17:44,156 Speaker 7: he was growing one down there once, and then he took, 282 00:17:44,276 --> 00:17:46,856 Speaker 7: there was another path. He had paths out of it. 283 00:17:48,036 --> 00:17:51,976 Speaker 2: She says he was acting paranoid, worried about police helicopters 284 00:17:52,096 --> 00:17:53,556 Speaker 2: that might be flying overhead. 285 00:17:54,466 --> 00:17:56,946 Speaker 7: He didn't want the cops to see him because they'd 286 00:17:56,986 --> 00:17:59,966 Speaker 7: come in and tear up his little place he lived in. 287 00:17:59,986 --> 00:18:03,506 Speaker 7: Because the cops were always, he said, always up there 288 00:18:03,546 --> 00:18:06,456 Speaker 7: looking for him. I don't know if they thought about 289 00:18:06,516 --> 00:18:10,526 Speaker 7: him up there or what, but He said that they 290 00:18:10,546 --> 00:18:12,686 Speaker 7: would go by because they were looking for him. 291 00:18:13,586 --> 00:18:17,366 Speaker 2: At the fort, Rick confided in Karen about Darian, his 292 00:18:17,446 --> 00:18:19,066 Speaker 2: girlfriend who had recently died. 293 00:18:19,086 --> 00:18:23,726 Speaker 7: He really was in love with her. Like, they did 294 00:18:23,986 --> 00:18:28,996 Speaker 7: everything together. And he was really grieving her. He said 295 00:18:29,016 --> 00:18:31,916 Speaker 7: they got high and did everything together. He was like 296 00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:36,156 Speaker 7: they were active in sex and everything. So they were 297 00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:40,136 Speaker 7: active in all kinds of ways. I didn't pay attention 298 00:18:40,176 --> 00:18:42,936 Speaker 7: to all that as much as I really could see 299 00:18:43,096 --> 00:18:47,076 Speaker 7: that this guy was really broken from her death. 300 00:18:48,056 --> 00:18:51,096 Speaker 2: While they were talking, Karen says, Rick started showing her 301 00:18:51,136 --> 00:18:54,496 Speaker 2: things that had belonged to Darian, bras and underwear that 302 00:18:54,536 --> 00:18:56,076 Speaker 2: he was keeping in a plastic bag. 303 00:18:57,426 --> 00:19:00,126 Speaker 7: He showed me the bag. He had a little bag 304 00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:03,926 Speaker 7: of bras and stuff. I go, why do you have 305 00:19:03,946 --> 00:19:07,646 Speaker 7: her clothes? And he said, well, I just like to 306 00:19:07,726 --> 00:19:11,116 Speaker 7: keep her close to me. And I went, oh, okay. 307 00:19:11,696 --> 00:19:14,256 Speaker 2: She felt for him, but she was getting a little worried. 308 00:19:14,896 --> 00:19:16,276 Speaker 2: This wasn't the Rick she knew. 309 00:19:16,296 --> 00:19:21,076 Speaker 7: I just remember that he was really devastated that she 310 00:19:21,116 --> 00:19:23,386 Speaker 7: died to the point of where I thought, oh my God, 311 00:19:23,426 --> 00:19:26,046 Speaker 7: he slipped over the edge because he's got her clothes. 312 00:19:26,746 --> 00:19:29,386 Speaker 2: Karen let Rick know she was ready to go. The 313 00:19:29,446 --> 00:19:31,226 Speaker 2: sun had set, and she didn't want to be out 314 00:19:31,266 --> 00:19:32,246 Speaker 2: in the woods in the dark. 315 00:19:33,166 --> 00:19:36,886 Speaker 7: Because it was kind of getting dusky, and so I 316 00:19:36,926 --> 00:19:40,026 Speaker 7: didn't want to stay up there. But he said, give 317 00:19:40,046 --> 00:19:40,486 Speaker 7: me a minute. 318 00:19:41,086 --> 00:19:44,196 Speaker 2: Rick disappeared down one of the little paths into the brush, 319 00:19:44,776 --> 00:19:47,116 Speaker 2: and when he came back, he was wearing a new outfit. 320 00:19:48,176 --> 00:19:51,176 Speaker 7: And so he went wherever he went, probably got high 321 00:19:51,216 --> 00:19:56,176 Speaker 7: because then he came back in a thong. a literal 322 00:19:56,676 --> 00:20:02,096 Speaker 7: G-string thong, a girl's thong. And I just went, what 323 00:20:02,116 --> 00:20:02,576 Speaker 7: are you doing? 324 00:20:04,456 --> 00:20:05,076 Speaker 2: Oh, God. 325 00:20:05,996 --> 00:20:08,766 Speaker 7: Yeah. I can't even see his face. All I can 326 00:20:08,806 --> 00:20:10,346 Speaker 7: see is the stinking thong. 327 00:20:11,406 --> 00:20:12,466 Speaker 2: Karen was baffled. 328 00:20:13,546 --> 00:20:15,626 Speaker 7: When I think about it now that I'm talking to 329 00:20:15,646 --> 00:20:19,546 Speaker 7: you guys, he had to have had something because Karen 330 00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:24,556 Speaker 7: wanted to go immediately, but she was also conscious of 331 00:20:24,656 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 7: the delicacy of the situation. She didn't want to upset Rick. 332 00:20:29,056 --> 00:20:31,876 Speaker 7: They were alone out there. He was high and in 333 00:20:31,996 --> 00:20:32,416 Speaker 7: a thong. 334 00:20:46,846 --> 00:20:48,986 Speaker 2: And she no longer really knew who she was dealing 335 00:20:49,026 --> 00:20:50,396 Speaker 2: with or what he wanted. 336 00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:54,076 Speaker 7: I just knew he was really off, and so I 337 00:20:54,116 --> 00:20:58,896 Speaker 7: was trying to be careful, politely exiting out of there, 338 00:20:59,176 --> 00:21:02,376 Speaker 7: you know, because just when somebody slips like that, you 339 00:21:02,396 --> 00:21:06,146 Speaker 7: don't know what they could do. So I remember just going, okay, 340 00:21:06,166 --> 00:21:09,206 Speaker 7: you know, I'm just kind of appeasing him, talking, you know, 341 00:21:09,706 --> 00:21:12,026 Speaker 7: and saying, okay, Rick, it's getting cold and late. I'm 342 00:21:12,046 --> 00:21:13,246 Speaker 7: going to go back down the mountain. 343 00:21:14,626 --> 00:21:17,726 Speaker 2: The encounter put the kibosh on any idea she'd had 344 00:21:17,886 --> 00:21:20,146 Speaker 2: about rekindling her relationship with Rick. 345 00:21:21,526 --> 00:21:25,226 Speaker 7: It was absolutely the biggest turnoff I've ever seen. But 346 00:21:25,246 --> 00:21:27,526 Speaker 7: it was shocking because I knew this kid as a 347 00:21:27,606 --> 00:21:31,136 Speaker 7: kid and he wasn't like that. So it was very 348 00:21:31,216 --> 00:21:34,336 Speaker 7: unsettling to see him like that. And he saw it 349 00:21:34,376 --> 00:21:36,756 Speaker 7: on my face and he knew it. And I told him, Rick, 350 00:21:36,776 --> 00:21:39,276 Speaker 7: I don't know what you're doing, but I'm going to 351 00:21:39,316 --> 00:21:43,056 Speaker 7: go down back to Laura's because I didn't feel comfortable. 352 00:21:43,096 --> 00:21:43,336 Speaker 2: I'm not. 353 00:21:43,926 --> 00:21:46,866 Speaker 7: that he was doing anything other than being actually so 354 00:21:47,066 --> 00:21:51,726 Speaker 7: strange by putting it on that I'm not into any 355 00:21:51,766 --> 00:21:55,266 Speaker 7: of that kind of crap. And so I just left. 356 00:21:55,286 --> 00:22:02,776 Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I guess you did not want to reconnect 357 00:22:02,816 --> 00:22:04,416 Speaker 2: with your old flame after all. 358 00:22:06,776 --> 00:22:07,276 Speaker 8: Right? 359 00:22:07,976 --> 00:22:11,756 Speaker 7: You just really should not go backwards. That I've learned 360 00:22:11,876 --> 00:22:12,356 Speaker 7: from that. 361 00:22:14,716 --> 00:22:18,796 Speaker 2: To Karen, Rick seemed completely untethered from his old reality. 362 00:22:30,946 --> 00:22:35,686 Speaker 2: A year after Mitrice was buried, something extraordinary happened. Her 363 00:22:35,726 --> 00:22:38,826 Speaker 2: body was exhumed, and a second autopsy was performed. 364 00:22:40,176 --> 00:22:40,496 Speaker 5: Dr. 365 00:22:40,586 --> 00:22:44,156 Speaker 2: Lisa Scheinen, the forensic pathologist with the L.A. County Coroner, 366 00:22:44,616 --> 00:22:48,636 Speaker 2: says that in her career she performed 6,000 autopsies, and 367 00:22:48,676 --> 00:22:52,676 Speaker 2: this was her one and only experience with exhumation. I 368 00:22:52,716 --> 00:22:55,546 Speaker 2: wanted to know why it happened, so I called Dr. 369 00:22:55,586 --> 00:23:00,466 Speaker 2: Rhonda Hampton. Hello? 370 00:23:01,646 --> 00:23:02,106 Speaker 3: Rhonda? 371 00:23:03,266 --> 00:23:03,546 Speaker 7: Hi. 372 00:23:03,626 --> 00:23:07,826 Speaker 2: Hi, it's Dana calling. Hey, I'm in the car as 373 00:23:07,846 --> 00:23:11,396 Speaker 2: I She said the exhumation had a lot to do 374 00:23:11,456 --> 00:23:15,496 Speaker 2: with a discovery made by Clea Coff, the independent forensic 375 00:23:15,576 --> 00:23:19,056 Speaker 2: anthropologist who was working with the family. It was just 376 00:23:19,116 --> 00:23:21,296 Speaker 2: a few hours before Mitrice's funeral. 377 00:23:22,386 --> 00:23:24,166 Speaker 5: She thought she was going to open up a body bag, 378 00:23:24,226 --> 00:23:25,646 Speaker 5: everything that was going to be fine, and then she 379 00:23:25,666 --> 00:23:27,986 Speaker 5: was going to say, Rhonda, everything's fine. But she didn't. 380 00:23:28,606 --> 00:23:29,306 Speaker 4: She called me. 381 00:23:29,326 --> 00:23:31,546 Speaker 5: She was like, Rhonda, the clothes are in the body bag. 382 00:23:32,796 --> 00:23:35,896 Speaker 2: In the normal course of events, the sheriff's department homicide 383 00:23:35,916 --> 00:23:38,956 Speaker 2: detectives would have requested the clothing from the coroner and 384 00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:42,186 Speaker 2: sent it to the crime lab for testing. Here was 385 00:23:42,236 --> 00:23:45,246 Speaker 2: a naked female with her jeans and bra stripped off, 386 00:23:45,566 --> 00:23:49,266 Speaker 2: her belt unbuckled and removed, and they'd apparently forgotten to 387 00:23:49,326 --> 00:23:54,106 Speaker 2: test the clothing for DNA. Mitrice's belt, bra, and jeans 388 00:23:54,206 --> 00:23:56,946 Speaker 2: were sitting in a large, clear plastic bag in the 389 00:23:56,986 --> 00:23:58,406 Speaker 2: body bag with her remains. 390 00:23:59,486 --> 00:24:01,186 Speaker 5: So the thing is, I was like, okay, Clea, just 391 00:24:01,386 --> 00:24:03,686 Speaker 5: do everything that you can, and then we're going to 392 00:24:03,726 --> 00:24:06,646 Speaker 5: have to... We can't let them know that the clothing 393 00:24:06,706 --> 00:24:08,786 Speaker 5: is there, because we don't know what they're going to 394 00:24:08,806 --> 00:24:10,516 Speaker 5: do with it. And we were in a pinch, because 395 00:24:10,536 --> 00:24:14,816 Speaker 5: the media's all down there. It was just awful. So 396 00:24:14,836 --> 00:24:16,716 Speaker 5: she's like, I'll secure the clothing the way it needs 397 00:24:16,736 --> 00:24:18,916 Speaker 5: to be secured. I'm going to do as much of 398 00:24:18,976 --> 00:24:20,496 Speaker 5: an analysis as I can. We're going to find out 399 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:23,586 Speaker 5: what they didn't do, and then we'll write up a report, 400 00:24:23,646 --> 00:24:25,166 Speaker 5: and we're going to have to have her body examined. 401 00:24:26,886 --> 00:24:27,126 Speaker 4: So. 402 00:24:27,616 --> 00:24:32,636 Speaker 2: Almost a year later, on July 13, 2011, at 10.07 403 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:36,876 Speaker 2: in the morning, the concrete vault containing Mitrice's casket was 404 00:24:36,966 --> 00:24:40,926 Speaker 2: removed from the ground at Inglewood Park Cemetery. The vault 405 00:24:40,986 --> 00:24:43,966 Speaker 2: seal was broken and the casket was taken into custody 406 00:24:43,986 --> 00:24:47,466 Speaker 2: by the coroner and transferred to the Forensic Science Center. 407 00:24:48,426 --> 00:24:51,476 Speaker 2: That day, Mitrice's clothing and a number of other items 408 00:24:51,546 --> 00:24:55,876 Speaker 2: were finally collected for analysis. Those items included a single 409 00:24:55,956 --> 00:25:00,476 Speaker 2: nail trimming, pubic hairs, and a mysterious material referred to as, quote, 410 00:25:01,056 --> 00:25:05,916 Speaker 2: loose green fuzz-like hair slash fibers located near the legs. 411 00:25:07,536 --> 00:25:12,656 Speaker 2: What on earth was that? The test results weren't made public, 412 00:25:13,136 --> 00:25:15,996 Speaker 2: but Dr. Hampton says that nothing useful came out of 413 00:25:16,036 --> 00:25:20,556 Speaker 2: the analysis. We can only assume that no other individual's 414 00:25:20,656 --> 00:25:23,816 Speaker 2: DNA was found on her clothes or on her pubic 415 00:25:23,856 --> 00:25:28,826 Speaker 2: hair or under her fingernails or on the green fuzz. Dr. 416 00:25:28,886 --> 00:25:33,046 Speaker 2: Lisa Scheinen, the pathologist who'd done the first autopsy, performed 417 00:25:33,086 --> 00:25:35,046 Speaker 2: a second one to see if there were signs of 418 00:25:35,106 --> 00:25:37,216 Speaker 2: trauma that had been missed the first time around. 419 00:25:38,216 --> 00:25:40,516 Speaker 8: We opened up the top of the head to make 420 00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:43,706 Speaker 8: sure that there was no internal fractures of the bone. 421 00:25:43,726 --> 00:25:47,086 Speaker 8: We didn't see anything externally, and there was nothing on 422 00:25:47,126 --> 00:25:49,906 Speaker 8: the x-ray that suggested it, but we decided to just 423 00:25:49,926 --> 00:25:52,486 Speaker 8: double-check and open it up. Then there was still nothing, 424 00:25:52,806 --> 00:25:56,476 Speaker 8: so there was still no evidence of trauma, so nothing 425 00:25:56,536 --> 00:25:57,316 Speaker 8: had changed. 426 00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:02,976 Speaker 2: Then a forensic dentist examined Mitrice's teeth. That's because during 427 00:26:03,016 --> 00:26:06,416 Speaker 2: her exam just before the burial, Clea Coff had observed 428 00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:10,786 Speaker 2: pink discoloration. Pink teeth is a phenomenon that can happen 429 00:26:10,826 --> 00:26:14,526 Speaker 2: when blood flow to the teeth is impeded. Historically, it's 430 00:26:14,566 --> 00:26:17,436 Speaker 2: been linked in medical literature with strangulation. 431 00:26:20,956 --> 00:26:26,796 Speaker 8: The old wisdom was that it could be associated with asphyxia, 432 00:26:27,336 --> 00:26:34,806 Speaker 8: but it's really not the only possible explanation. 433 00:26:35,826 --> 00:26:39,206 Speaker 2: Pink teeth can also be an artifact. which results from 434 00:26:39,246 --> 00:26:41,346 Speaker 2: the head being lower than the rest of the body. 435 00:26:42,246 --> 00:26:43,986 Speaker 8: And that could just be a function of how the 436 00:26:44,026 --> 00:26:48,826 Speaker 8: person was lying, which could have a totally innocent explanation. 437 00:26:49,886 --> 00:26:53,406 Speaker 2: At the second autopsy, the forensic dentist did observe some 438 00:26:53,486 --> 00:26:56,806 Speaker 2: pink discoloration at the roots of several of Mitrice's teeth 439 00:26:57,546 --> 00:27:00,316 Speaker 2: and on the surface of one of them. But, in 440 00:27:00,376 --> 00:27:03,556 Speaker 2: her opinion, it wasn't a case of true pink teeth. 441 00:27:04,456 --> 00:27:07,296 Speaker 2: There was no justification to change the cause of death 442 00:27:07,376 --> 00:27:10,686 Speaker 2: to homicides and Dr. Scheinen wrote that the cause of 443 00:27:10,746 --> 00:27:16,156 Speaker 2: death must remain undetermined. Still, talking to her today, she 444 00:27:16,236 --> 00:27:18,976 Speaker 2: says the color of the teeth might be meaningful in 445 00:27:19,016 --> 00:27:20,436 Speaker 2: the context of other evidence. 446 00:27:21,476 --> 00:27:25,796 Speaker 8: I think because of the circumstances, could the pink teeth 447 00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:29,736 Speaker 8: support a diagnosis of asphyxia? Well, it could have happened 448 00:27:29,976 --> 00:27:33,356 Speaker 8: that she was strangled, in which case the pink teeth 449 00:27:33,426 --> 00:27:34,286 Speaker 8: would support that. 450 00:27:35,366 --> 00:27:38,816 Speaker 2: The hyoid bone, the delicate bone in the throat, might 451 00:27:38,836 --> 00:27:44,286 Speaker 2: have provided direct evidence of strangulation. Another person's DNA, had 452 00:27:44,326 --> 00:27:47,526 Speaker 2: it been found on Mitrice's remains, could have been significant. 453 00:27:48,506 --> 00:27:51,966 Speaker 2: But there was no hyoid bone and no report of DNA. 454 00:27:52,916 --> 00:27:55,016 Speaker 2: So that left circumstantial evidence. 455 00:27:55,036 --> 00:28:02,876 Speaker 5: So, um. 456 00:28:08,956 --> 00:28:11,336 Speaker 2: Can we just start at the beginning, which is how 457 00:28:11,416 --> 00:28:16,596 Speaker 2: you got to know Rick Forsberg? We're in an apartment 458 00:28:16,716 --> 00:28:19,796 Speaker 2: deep in the valley talking to a woman named Lisa Lepore. 459 00:28:20,836 --> 00:28:24,096 Speaker 2: She's petite with gnarled hands and pale blue eyes and 460 00:28:24,166 --> 00:28:27,746 Speaker 2: a cell phone that's almost always out of service. It 461 00:28:27,786 --> 00:28:30,126 Speaker 2: feels like a small miracle to meet her in person. 462 00:28:30,826 --> 00:28:34,026 Speaker 2: Haley and I have been door-knocking houses and residential hotels 463 00:28:34,086 --> 00:28:37,426 Speaker 2: for months trying to find her. Finally, she picks up 464 00:28:37,466 --> 00:28:40,186 Speaker 2: the phone and says we can come over. And then 465 00:28:40,306 --> 00:28:43,066 Speaker 2: she tries to cancel the meeting 15 minutes before we arrive. 466 00:28:43,806 --> 00:28:48,046 Speaker 2: But we ignore that text and show up anyway. Lisa 467 00:28:48,246 --> 00:28:51,926 Speaker 2: is one of Rick's victims. She met him in 2012, 468 00:28:51,926 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 2: about three years after Mitrice's disappearance. They were basically drug buddies. 469 00:28:57,696 --> 00:28:59,736 Speaker 2: And one day, when she was hanging out with him, 470 00:29:00,156 --> 00:29:01,196 Speaker 2: he came at her. 471 00:29:02,076 --> 00:29:04,376 Speaker 6: Rick just got freaked out and he just attacked me. 472 00:29:04,436 --> 00:29:07,226 Speaker 6: He just grabbed me and started punching me and choking me. 473 00:29:07,246 --> 00:29:11,496 Speaker 2: I know it's probably horrible to remember, but can you 474 00:29:11,506 --> 00:29:11,846 Speaker 2: describe it? 475 00:29:11,846 --> 00:29:14,596 Speaker 6: He grabbed me by my throat and he got me 476 00:29:14,636 --> 00:29:16,556 Speaker 6: on the ground. He started to punch me repetitively in 477 00:29:16,576 --> 00:29:20,876 Speaker 6: the face. And then he was strangling me. And everybody 478 00:29:20,916 --> 00:29:24,416 Speaker 6: was just sitting there, just sitting there watching. They didn't 479 00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:30,136 Speaker 6: even move. Didn't do anything, you know, to help me. 480 00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:33,816 Speaker 2: She has no idea what provoked him. 481 00:29:34,476 --> 00:29:36,826 Speaker 6: He's just off in the head, that's all. 482 00:29:36,846 --> 00:29:39,646 Speaker 2: Lisa's blocked out a lot of the details of what happened. 483 00:29:40,566 --> 00:29:41,946 Speaker 1: And was Rick saying anything? 484 00:29:41,986 --> 00:29:43,696 Speaker 2: Was he yelling? 485 00:29:43,826 --> 00:29:45,296 Speaker 7: I don't even remember. 486 00:29:46,516 --> 00:29:50,056 Speaker 2: But the feeling is still with her. Did you think 487 00:29:50,076 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 2: you were going to die? Yes, I did. 488 00:29:52,316 --> 00:29:53,276 Speaker 3: I knew I was going to die. 489 00:29:53,296 --> 00:29:54,386 Speaker 4: I knew it. 490 00:29:54,876 --> 00:29:58,016 Speaker 6: There was no doubt I was going to die. It's 491 00:29:58,096 --> 00:30:00,096 Speaker 6: really traumatizing. I feel like I'm going to throw up 492 00:30:00,136 --> 00:30:00,456 Speaker 6: right now. 493 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,636 Speaker 2: At some point, as Lisa lay there being strangled and 494 00:30:05,696 --> 00:30:09,066 Speaker 2: punched by Rick, her thoughts shifted away from her own 495 00:30:09,136 --> 00:30:10,696 Speaker 2: predicament to Mitrice. 496 00:30:11,636 --> 00:30:14,056 Speaker 6: I was thinking, this is what her last moments were like, 497 00:30:14,096 --> 00:30:16,576 Speaker 6: you know? This must be what her last moments were like. 498 00:30:21,136 --> 00:30:24,136 Speaker 2: Neither the coroner nor a team of homicide detectives had 499 00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:27,976 Speaker 2: been able to figure out how Mitrice died. But Lisa 500 00:30:28,016 --> 00:30:34,016 Speaker 2: believes she knows. Back before Rick nearly killed Lisa, when 501 00:30:34,056 --> 00:30:36,396 Speaker 2: they were on good terms, She spent a lot of 502 00:30:36,456 --> 00:30:39,076 Speaker 2: time with him at a house belonging to a Montanito 503 00:30:39,116 --> 00:30:43,696 Speaker 2: friend of his. This wasn't the Robbins house. It was 504 00:30:43,736 --> 00:30:46,186 Speaker 2: a big spread at the top of Cold Canyon Road, 505 00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:51,826 Speaker 2: just past Will Smith's estate. The owner, Mark Wallace, was 506 00:30:51,866 --> 00:30:54,486 Speaker 2: several years younger than Rick, but he was a Montanito 507 00:30:54,526 --> 00:30:57,846 Speaker 2: boy through and through. He'd grown up there, running around 508 00:30:57,886 --> 00:31:01,416 Speaker 2: the hills with the older kids. Then, like his father, 509 00:31:01,656 --> 00:31:04,596 Speaker 2: he'd embarked on a career with the Los Angeles Fire Department. 510 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:08,986 Speaker 2: becoming a firefighter and paramedic. But Mark was also a 511 00:31:08,996 --> 00:31:12,986 Speaker 2: bit of a renegade. His business card from Wallace & Associates, 512 00:31:13,226 --> 00:31:16,386 Speaker 2: a home-building concern he runs on the side, reads, quote, 513 00:31:16,406 --> 00:31:19,586 Speaker 2: The card identifies him as CEO and, quote, head honcho 514 00:31:19,606 --> 00:31:37,436 Speaker 2: slash motherfucker in charge. In the summer of 2009, when 515 00:31:37,496 --> 00:31:40,616 Speaker 2: Rick was released from prison, Mark was separated from his 516 00:31:40,696 --> 00:31:45,586 Speaker 2: wife and living alone. His house was the ultimate bachelor pad. 517 00:31:46,346 --> 00:31:49,966 Speaker 2: It was perfect for entertaining. And perfect for shooting porn. 518 00:31:50,746 --> 00:31:53,906 Speaker 2: Porn being another business Mark dabbled in on the side. 519 00:31:55,626 --> 00:31:58,526 Speaker 2: In those days, Mark Wallace's house was a place where 520 00:31:58,916 --> 00:32:03,036 Speaker 2: just about anything went. And Rick, tootling around the neighborhood 521 00:32:03,176 --> 00:32:06,516 Speaker 2: on an old motorcycle Mark gave him, was a frequent visitor. 522 00:32:08,296 --> 00:32:11,696 Speaker 2: So when law enforcement started looking into Rick, they focused 523 00:32:11,856 --> 00:32:21,086 Speaker 2: on what was happening at Mark Wallace's house. Next time 524 00:32:21,146 --> 00:32:21,866 Speaker 2: on Lost Hills. 525 00:32:22,746 --> 00:32:24,766 Speaker 6: I told the police officer what I heard, and I said, 526 00:32:24,786 --> 00:32:26,886 Speaker 6: I'm going to scream it from the tallest mountain. If 527 00:32:26,926 --> 00:32:30,796 Speaker 6: you guys forgot something or whatever, I'm going to investigate 528 00:32:30,816 --> 00:32:32,516 Speaker 6: this because there is a killer down there. I'm going 529 00:32:32,536 --> 00:32:33,316 Speaker 6: to find out about it. 530 00:32:34,936 --> 00:32:45,716 Speaker 2: That's next in Episode 10, The Wally Pad. Lost Hills 531 00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:49,036 Speaker 2: is written and hosted by me, Dana Goodyear. It was 532 00:32:49,096 --> 00:32:52,996 Speaker 2: reported by me and Haley Fox, our senior producer. The 533 00:32:53,056 --> 00:32:56,816 Speaker 2: show was created by me and Ben Adair. Lost Hills 534 00:32:56,956 --> 00:33:05,626 Speaker 2: is a production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe 535 00:33:05,666 --> 00:33:08,386 Speaker 2: to Pushkin Plus and you can binge the whole season 536 00:33:08,486 --> 00:33:12,556 Speaker 2: right now, ad-free. Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hills 537 00:33:12,596 --> 00:33:17,746 Speaker 2: Show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm slash plus.