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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Rick Forsberg's temper was legendary in Montanito.

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Speaker 2: When he'd get in a fight, he flexed his chest.

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Speaker 2: We called him a cover of him, and he'd just

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Speaker 2: pretty much turn crazy. There's weird seeing him go from

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Speaker 2: gentle Rick and calm Rick to a madman.

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Speaker 1: This is his childhood friend, Jay Engelshall again. Jay says

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Speaker 1: Rick seemed to enjoy fighting.

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Speaker 2: He'd get in fights and then he'd go back for more.

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Speaker 2: And there was a couple of times at a party.

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Speaker 2: There's every time these two guys met, they'd fight, and

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Speaker 2: a few times Rick would get the better of him,

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Speaker 2: and he'd get better at Rick. But they or they

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Speaker 2: didn't like each other. I remember them both going to

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Speaker 2: the hospital, I think, getting stitches, and then they came

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Speaker 2: back and plought some more.

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Speaker 1: When he was enraged, Rick's strength seemed almost superhuman.

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Speaker 2: He would take over the situation just by being aggressive, real,

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Speaker 2: loud and mad or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Jay remember seeing a girlfriend of Rick's try to intervene

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Speaker 1: when he was losing control.

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Speaker 2: She's trying to calm him down and he's getting really

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Speaker 2: agitated loud, and he s picks up a ladder and

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Speaker 2: he spins it around and he hits her in the

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Speaker 2: face with it on accident, but it hit hit her

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Speaker 2: in the face, and then she was all upset, and

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Speaker 2: it just escalates, you know, it just keep escalating from there.

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Speaker 2: He was usually using drugs and he would get pretty

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Speaker 2: violent sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Jay says Rick started abusing women as a young man.

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Speaker 2: I remember most of his relationships. He'd get violent with

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend. That wasn't good. Nobody should once see that.

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Speaker 2: We'd all step in and something like that happened.

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Speaker 1: Jay's brother Bill also remembers trying to get Rick to

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Speaker 1: stand down. It was such a close community. They were

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Speaker 1: friends with Rick and the young women he beat up.

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Speaker 3: Like Rick his girlfriend was. He used to beat her

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Speaker 3: when they'd argue. He'd punch her. She'd take off running.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes she'd run to my house and hide, you know,

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Speaker 3: and he'd come over and I'd stand up to her.

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Speaker 3: He could kick my ass, but I'd stand up to him.

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Speaker 3: He wouldn't hit me, you know, it's like, go ahead,

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Speaker 3: hit me. Nope, you never did.

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Speaker 1: And you would stand between Rick and her. But did

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Speaker 1: you ever tell him separately, like you have to stop this,

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Speaker 1: this is terrible what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: Of course, you know, But he didn't do any good.

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Speaker 3: He's going to do what he's going to do.

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Speaker 1: Over time, though, as Rick became a hardened abuser, some

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Speaker 1: women would go to the police for help. Women after women, girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: domestic partner, the mother of his only child. They all

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Speaker 1: sought protection from him. If we're going to understand Rick

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Speaker 1: Forsberg and what he might have been capable of, will

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Speaker 1: need the help of women, women who knew him, women

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Speaker 1: he hurt. I'm Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills,

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Speaker 1: episode nine, Fearful Witness. Throughout his adult life, Rick exhibited

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Speaker 1: a toxic mix of good looks, charm, and drug fueled

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Speaker 1: physical aggression. Many women fell into his trap or were

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Speaker 1: dragged into it. Haley and I start calling around. We

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Speaker 1: want to talk to Leslie Alston, the mother of Rick's

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Speaker 1: son Ricky. In a restraining order she requested in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 1: she cited a history of violence against her and her son.

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Speaker 1: She said she'd been trying to avoid Rick for more

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Speaker 1: than seven years, but he researched her to find out

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Speaker 1: where she lived. She never responded to our calls and emails,

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Speaker 1: but the women who would talk had terrifying stories. Rick

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Speaker 1: had a history of strangling women and threatening them with murder.

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Speaker 1: According to court documents, one of Rick's victims attested that

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Speaker 1: when he attacked her, he told her he was going

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Speaker 1: to kill her. Then he called her from prison where

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Speaker 1: he'd been sent after assaulting her, and the two deputies

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Speaker 1: who came to her aid and said quote, I was

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Speaker 1: told that if I hurt you again, I can do

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Speaker 1: fifteen years in here. Since you are the problem, the

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Speaker 1: solution is to kill you because murder only carries ten

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Speaker 1: years less five years off for good behavior. Testifying at

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Speaker 1: Ric's parole revocation hearing, she described herself as a fearful witness.

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Speaker 1: It's been more than thirty years since the assault, but

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Speaker 1: she pleaded with us not to use her name, citing

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Speaker 1: severe PTSD. Knowing that Rick is dead did little to

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Speaker 1: assuage her fear. Among all of Rick's victims, one woman,

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Speaker 1: Darien Merrick, stands up out. She was his last serious girlfriend.

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Speaker 4: They were both very physical with each other, but they

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Speaker 4: loved each other just as much as they would fight too.

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Speaker 4: You know, that's just one of those relationships. It's addicting

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Speaker 4: and chaotic and hard to get out of.

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Speaker 1: This is Sharie Amic again. She's Rick's biggest defender, and

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Speaker 1: so maybe it's not surprising to hear her say Darien

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Speaker 1: provoked Rick.

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Speaker 4: She would just like slap him across the face in

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Speaker 4: front of everybody, you know, and I'd be like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, did you really just do that? Like we

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Speaker 4: were all hanging out and everything be fine, you know,

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Speaker 4: everything would be fine, and we've been talking to Lah Love.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's doing their own thing and everyone's happy making dinner,

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Speaker 4: and then she would do stuff like that, and he's like,

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Speaker 4: you got to get her away from me. You got

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Speaker 4: to get her away from me. That's how it always was,

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Speaker 4: you know, you got to help me get away from her.

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Speaker 2: But they would always go back.

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Speaker 1: Darien was a classic Rick Forrestsburgh love interest, a natural

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Speaker 1: beauty with beechy blonde hair, light eyes, and a perpetual tan.

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Speaker 1: Her father was an Olympic hurdler with a bronze medal.

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Speaker 1: Her mother was a former competitive skier and model. She'd

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Speaker 1: grown up near Zuma Beach and married the eldest son

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Speaker 1: of Malibu's most prominent judge. Their son grew up to

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Speaker 1: be a detective in the Sheriff's department. At the time

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Speaker 1: Darien met Rick, she and her husband had divorced and

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Speaker 1: she was spiraling into full blown addiction. Rick was fresh

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Speaker 1: out of prison. His offense slamming his white Mitsubishi Mighty

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Speaker 1: Max pickup truck into a tree on Topanga Canyon Boulevard

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Speaker 1: while driving barefoot and drunk. The arresting officer reported that

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Speaker 1: beer cans flew out of the car on impact. The

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Speaker 1: police report says that Rick was unconscious and had to

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Speaker 1: be extracted by cutting open the cab. He was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to twenty eight months in prison. By two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: Rick and Darien were living at a place called the

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Speaker 1: Malibu Kanyon Apartments, a complex on Las Virgines near the

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Speaker 1: intersection with the one on one Freeway. Cherie, who was

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Speaker 1: caught up in the party scene back then, had a

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Speaker 1: name for it.

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Speaker 4: What was that stupid show Melrose Place?

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Speaker 5: We were hell Rose Place, because that's what we were.

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Speaker 4: It was total hell Rose Oh my god, idiots, total idiots.

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Speaker 1: Rick was in full on Cobra mode, amped up and

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Speaker 1: paranoid and on a hair trigger. His eyes glazed over.

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Speaker 4: He was always kind of on the edge. No matter what.

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Speaker 4: Rick was always on the edge. You know, That's why

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Speaker 4: he would stay here because you know, his mom and

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Speaker 4: dad wouldn't put up with that crap, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and I try to always talk to Rick, you know,

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Speaker 4: because honestly, back to the out of control times, I

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Speaker 4: was never fearful of him, and I could get through

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Speaker 4: I could get through that glaze, you know, which is

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Speaker 4: very hard.

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Speaker 6: To do.

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Speaker 4: And risky, but I had no fear. It was just

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Speaker 4: I was going to do that. I was going to

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Speaker 4: take care of it.

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Speaker 1: Shari saw Rick and Darien's volatile relationship firsthand. She says,

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Speaker 1: Rick and Darien would spar Darien would call the cops

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Speaker 1: and he'd run straight to her place.

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Speaker 4: So night after night that shit would happen, and he

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Speaker 4: came over. He said, sure, you've got to get me

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Speaker 4: out of here. The cops are coming, and so I

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Speaker 4: took off.

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Speaker 1: I was like, let's go, I'll get you out. Rick

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Speaker 1: and Darien were in a doom spiral.

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Speaker 4: And of course with alcohol involved. I mean, the switch

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Speaker 4: is it's gonna it's gonna crash every time, you know

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Speaker 4: what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: And it was awful because.

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Speaker 4: They would fight and he would come to my house

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Speaker 4: and she would be calling and you know, harassing and

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Speaker 4: like egging. The whole thing. On, I'm gonna call the

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Speaker 4: cops on you, and all you know, he's like, I can't.

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Speaker 4: I'm on probation, Like I got to stay away from her.

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Speaker 4: You know, I can't do this. And that's when you

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Speaker 4: know I was God, I'm out of control too, you know,

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Speaker 4: we were all out of control.

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Speaker 1: In April of two thousand and six, Rick attacked Darien

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Speaker 1: and was charged with two felonies corporal injury resulting in

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Speaker 1: traumatic condition, an assault by means likely to produce great

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Speaker 1: bodily injury. He was convicted on the corporal injury charge

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Speaker 1: and sentenced to three years in state prison. At his

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Speaker 1: sentencing hearing, the prosecutor recommended that he refrain from contact

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Speaker 1: with Darien. He could not even write to her from prison.

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Speaker 1: Rick protested. He said it wasn't fair. They were planning

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Speaker 1: to get married when he was released. Darien was present

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom when she was asked if she had

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Speaker 1: anything to say about the protective order. She tellingly said, no,

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Speaker 1: something else that I find telling. Darien drank herself to

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Speaker 1: death in March two thousand and nine, shortly before the

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Speaker 1: protective order would have expired. In July two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: Rick got out of prison and returned to Montanito. He

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Speaker 1: crashed with Cheri's family and other friends. He built his fort,

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Speaker 1: drank his beers, did his drugs, and mourned the loss

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Speaker 1: of Darien. And when my Terse made her way to

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Speaker 1: Montenito on September seventeenth, two thousand and nine, there Rick

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Speaker 1: was waiting. Two women told us about encounters they'd had

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Speaker 1: with Rick around the time of my Terce's two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine disappearance that left them shaken. One of them

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Speaker 1: was a woman who said that Rick had been her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend when she was a young teenager living in Montanito,

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Speaker 1: and one day, when she was eighteen and he was

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty or twenty one, he came into her house

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Speaker 1: and tried to strangle her. Decades passed in which she

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Speaker 1: avoided him at all costs, and then in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine or ten, she stopped for a hitchhiker in

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Speaker 1: Malibu Canyon. To her dismay, it turned out to be Rick.

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Speaker 1: He was acting crazy, she says, He grabbed the steering

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Speaker 1: wheel and she was afraid they'd plunge over the edge

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Speaker 1: of the canyon. He invited her to go up to

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Speaker 1: his spot off Payuma Road and then he forced to

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Speaker 1: kiss on her. Not long afterwards, she says, Rick left

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Speaker 1: a message on her answering machine. He sounded like a demon,

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Speaker 1: and he was furious that she'd rejected him. He told

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Speaker 1: her he was going to dice her up and kill her.

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Speaker 1: When she heard about my Teres Richardson, the woman says

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Speaker 1: she called Lost Hill Station and begged them to look

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Speaker 1: into Rick. She says no one ever followed up.

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Speaker 7: Karen, Yeah, Hi, it's Dana. This is the recorded line. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The other woman is Karen McKellar. She also dated Rick

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Speaker 1: as a teenager.

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Speaker 7: I just thought he was like the cast me out.

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Speaker 7: But what an idiot I was. I was just a

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Speaker 7: dumb girl with no you know, just dumb, smoking pot

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Speaker 7: and drinking booze and just thinking I was cool with

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Speaker 7: the people and they were all idiots. Little did I know.

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Speaker 7: I was going all the way in the wrong direction

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Speaker 7: in life, and I thought it was cool until I

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Speaker 7: got snared.

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Speaker 1: The relationship left her with permanent scars.

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Speaker 7: He really broke my heart. He wasn't abusive physically, but

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Speaker 7: he abused me mentally as far as the relationship went,

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Speaker 7: and he would screw around with everybody, all all the

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Speaker 7: other girls, and I mean I had, unfortunately, and I'm

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Speaker 7: not proud of it, two abortions from that guy. And

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Speaker 7: he never even went with me. He was just a schmuck.

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Speaker 1: Karen kept tabs on Rick for a while.

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Speaker 7: We were broken up, but I still knew of him,

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Speaker 7: and so I would see Rick and he would be

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Speaker 7: high on angel dust or whatever driving down the canyon

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Speaker 7: and he was obviously we knew it that he was

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Speaker 7: really getting messed up like that where he was driving

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Speaker 7: like ten miles an hour in the canyon where you're

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Speaker 7: supposed to be going fifty. And we pulled him over

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Speaker 7: and said, Rick, what are you doing? And he was

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Speaker 7: like way out there, high by hisself, naked in the

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Speaker 7: car driving. So I was like, oh my god, he

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Speaker 7: was just off the hook. So, yeah, he was experimenting

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Speaker 7: and doing a lot of angel dust when he was

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Speaker 7: a kid. I think it's cow tranquilizer or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: I think that's what they uh because I smoke it too.

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Speaker 7: But he never stopped. You know, there was a point

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Speaker 7: where like, Okay, you got to stop this stuff's twisting

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Speaker 7: your brain.

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Speaker 1: After going through her own struggles with addiction, Karen got

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Speaker 1: sober and devoted her adult life to helping women recover

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Speaker 1: from substance abuse. Then one day, she thinks it was

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Speaker 1: somewhere around two thousand and nine or twenty ten, Rick

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Speaker 1: popped into her head and she called him up.

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Speaker 7: I was in LA I'm helping people, and he said, yeah,

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Speaker 7: come on out, you know, blah blah blah. So I thought, well,

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Speaker 7: maybe you know, I'm not like an idiot. So I

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Speaker 7: went out there, and I got on a bus and

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Speaker 7: went out there, and they picked me up and he

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Speaker 7: was very plied, very nice.

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Speaker 1: At first, she was kind of excited. Rick was still

249
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Speaker 1: good looking, and he was always a neat freak and

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Speaker 1: into personal hygiene, so he presented well.

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Speaker 7: But after a little bit, then he started getting high

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Speaker 7: when I was there, and it became apparent to me

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Speaker 7: that nothing had changed in his life.

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Speaker 1: Rick told Karen he lived with Laura and Ray Robbins,

255
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Speaker 1: Shari Amick's parents, But he also told her about his fort.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, because when we were kids, he always had like

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Speaker 7: a fort, you know, in the mountains there. And so

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Speaker 7: when he was my boyfriend that I thought I was

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Speaker 7: still in love with as a fourteen year old, it

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Speaker 7: was like, really cool, you know, like, oh, they would

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Speaker 7: go up there because we would go up there and

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Speaker 7: drink or whatever. And so he had built one up

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Speaker 7: there from Lauras and he goes like, come on, I

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Speaker 7: want to show you them. I got a little ford

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Speaker 7: up here, and I go, are you serious?

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Speaker 1: Turns out Rick was just showering at the Robin's house,

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Speaker 1: hanging out there. Occasionally. He was living at his fort,

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Speaker 1: the Fort off Payuma Road. Karen humored him and went

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Speaker 1: up there with him. She remembers a small dugout about

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Speaker 1: eight by ten feet.

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Speaker 7: I do remember too, like lounge chairs or a lounge

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Speaker 7: chair or bad thing, and he slept on that I guess.

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Speaker 7: I mean he had little exit all over if I recall, right,

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Speaker 7: like you could go one way, and maybe he did

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Speaker 7: say he had pot up there. I can't, but I

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Speaker 7: remember he took me one way and I didn't see

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Speaker 7: any pop plants, but he might have said he was

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Speaker 7: growing one down there once and then he took there

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Speaker 7: was another path. He had paps out of it.

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Speaker 1: She says he was acting paranoid, worried about police helicopters

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Speaker 1: that might be flying overhead.

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Speaker 7: He didn't want the cops to see him because they'd

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Speaker 7: come in and care up this little place he lived

284
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Speaker 7: in because the cops were always, he said, always out

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Speaker 7: there looking for him. I don't know if they'd thought

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00:18:06,156 --> 00:18:09,516
Speaker 7: about him up there or what that He's said that

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00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:11,676
Speaker 7: they were all they would go by because they were

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Speaker 7: looking for him.

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Speaker 1: At the fort, Rick confided in Karen about Darien, his girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: who had recently died.

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Speaker 7: He really was in love with her, like they did

292
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Speaker 7: everything together, and he was really grieving her. He said

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Speaker 7: they got high and did everything together. He was like

294
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Speaker 7: they were active in sex and everything. So they were

295
00:18:36,276 --> 00:18:40,156
Speaker 7: active in all kinds of ways. I didn't pay attention

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Speaker 7: to all that as much as I really could see

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Speaker 7: that this guy was really broken from her death.

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Speaker 1: While they were talking, Karen says, Rick started showing her

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Speaker 1: things that had belonged to Darien, bras and underwear that

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Speaker 1: he was keeping in a plastic bag.

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Speaker 7: You know. He showed me the bag he had a like,

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00:18:59,356 --> 00:19:02,076
Speaker 7: you know, a little bag of bras and stuff. I go,

303
00:19:02,436 --> 00:19:07,036
Speaker 7: why do you have her clothes? And he said, well,

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Speaker 7: I'd just like to keep her close to me, and

305
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Speaker 7: I went, okay.

306
00:19:11,676 --> 00:19:14,276
Speaker 1: She felt for him, but she was getting a little worried.

307
00:19:14,916 --> 00:19:16,396
Speaker 1: This wasn't the Rick she knew.

308
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Speaker 7: I just remember that he was really devastated that she died,

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Speaker 7: to the point of where I thought, oh my god,

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Speaker 7: he's slipped over the edge, because he's got her clothes.

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Speaker 1: Karen let Rick know she was ready to go. The

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Speaker 1: sun had set, and she didn't want to be out

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Speaker 1: in the woods in the dark because.

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Speaker 7: It was kind of getting dusky, and so I didn't

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Speaker 7: want to stay up there, but he said, give me

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Speaker 7: a minute.

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Speaker 1: Rick disappeared down one of the little paths into the brush,

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Speaker 1: and when he came back, he was wearing a new outfit.

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Speaker 7: And so he went wherever he went probably got high,

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Speaker 7: because then he came back in a song, a literal

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Speaker 7: g string song, a girl song, and I just went,

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Speaker 7: what are you doing? Okay, yeah, I can't even see

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Speaker 7: his face all as I can see the stinking thong.

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Speaker 1: Karen was baffled.

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Speaker 7: When I think about it now that I'm talking to you, guys,

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Speaker 7: he had to have had something, because he slipped way

327
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Speaker 7: far off the planet edge. And when people are like that,

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Speaker 7: they're pretty much capable of doing anything. So I would say, yeah,

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Speaker 7: that guy was something jolted in the way wrong way.

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Speaker 1: Karen wanted to go immediately, but she was also conscious

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Speaker 1: of the delicacy of the situation. She didn't want to

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Speaker 1: upset Rick. They were alone out there, he was high

333
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Speaker 1: and in a thong, and she no longer really knew

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Speaker 1: who she was dealing with or what he wanted.

335
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Speaker 7: I just knew he was really off, and so I

336
00:20:54,236 --> 00:20:58,756
Speaker 7: was trying to be careful, politely exiting out of there,

337
00:20:59,196 --> 00:21:02,356
Speaker 7: you know, because just when somebody slips like that, you

338
00:21:02,436 --> 00:21:05,996
Speaker 7: don't know what they could do. So I remember just going, okay,

339
00:21:06,116 --> 00:21:10,316
Speaker 7: you know, I'm just kind of appeasing him, talking and saying, okay,

340
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Speaker 7: Rick is getting cold and late, I'm going to go

341
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Speaker 7: back down the mountain.

342
00:21:14,636 --> 00:21:17,756
Speaker 1: The encounter put the kaibosh on any idea she'd had

343
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Speaker 1: about rekindling her relationship with Rick.

344
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Speaker 7: It was absolutely the biggest turn off I've ever seen.

345
00:21:25,076 --> 00:21:27,436
Speaker 7: But it was shocking because I knew this kid as

346
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Speaker 7: a kidney wasn't like that. So it was very unsettling

347
00:21:32,156 --> 00:21:34,516
Speaker 7: to see him like that, and he saw it on

348
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Speaker 7: my face and he knew it. And I told him, Rick,

349
00:21:36,596 --> 00:21:39,316
Speaker 7: I don't know what you're doing, but I'm going to

350
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Speaker 7: go down back to Lauras because I didn't feel comfortable.

351
00:21:43,116 --> 00:21:45,836
Speaker 7: I'm not that he was doing anything other than being

352
00:21:45,996 --> 00:21:50,916
Speaker 7: actually so strange by putting it on that I'm not

353
00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:54,476
Speaker 7: into any of that kind of crap, and so I

354
00:21:54,676 --> 00:21:55,276
Speaker 7: just left.

355
00:21:57,716 --> 00:22:02,836
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, I guess you did not want to reconnect

356
00:22:02,836 --> 00:22:04,396
Speaker 1: with your old flame after all.

357
00:22:04,676 --> 00:22:11,036
Speaker 7: Shit, right, you just really should not go backwards. That

358
00:22:11,076 --> 00:22:12,236
Speaker 7: I've learned from that.

359
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Speaker 1: To Karen, Rick seemed completely untethered from his old reality.

360
00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:34,836
Speaker 1: A year after my Terce was buried, something extraordinary happened.

361
00:22:35,556 --> 00:22:38,916
Speaker 1: Her body was exhumed and a second autopsy was performed.

362
00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:44,236
Speaker 1: Doctor Lisa Shinen, the forensic pathologist with the La County Coroner,

363
00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:48,196
Speaker 1: says that in her career, she performed six thousand autopsies

364
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Speaker 1: and this was her one and only experience with exhumation.

365
00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:55,236
Speaker 1: I wanted to know why it happened, so I called

366
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Speaker 1: doctor Ronda Hampton. Huh, Rhonda, all right, Hi, it's Dana calling.

367
00:23:05,836 --> 00:23:06,036
Speaker 5: Hey.

368
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Speaker 6: I'm in the car.

369
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Speaker 1: As I told you said, the exhumation had a lot

370
00:23:11,116 --> 00:23:14,156
Speaker 1: to do with the discovery made by Cleia Koff, the

371
00:23:14,276 --> 00:23:18,556
Speaker 1: independent forensic anthropologist who was working with the family. It

372
00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:21,356
Speaker 1: was just a few hours before my Teresa's funeral.

373
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Speaker 8: She thought she was going to open up a body bag.

374
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Speaker 8: Everything that was going to be fine, and then she

375
00:23:25,676 --> 00:23:28,156
Speaker 8: was going to say Monty, everything fine, but she didn't.

376
00:23:28,636 --> 00:23:30,996
Speaker 8: She called me. She's like fond of the closer in

377
00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:31,636
Speaker 8: the body bag.

378
00:23:32,796 --> 00:23:35,956
Speaker 1: In the normal course of events, the Sheriff's Department homicide

379
00:23:35,996 --> 00:23:38,956
Speaker 1: detectives would have requested the clothing from the coroner and

380
00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:42,196
Speaker 1: sent it to the crime lab for testing. Here was

381
00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:45,396
Speaker 1: a naked female with her jeans and bra stripped off,

382
00:23:45,556 --> 00:23:49,316
Speaker 1: her belt unbuckled and removed, and they'd apparently forgotten to

383
00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:53,636
Speaker 1: test the clothing for DNA. My Teresa's belt, bra, and

384
00:23:53,756 --> 00:23:56,836
Speaker 1: jeans were sitting in a large, clear plastic bag in

385
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Speaker 1: the body bag with her remains.

386
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:01,476
Speaker 8: So the thing is was like, okay, CLEI just do

387
00:24:01,676 --> 00:24:03,916
Speaker 8: everything that you can, and then we're going to have

388
00:24:03,996 --> 00:24:06,836
Speaker 8: to We can't let them know that the clothing is

389
00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:08,836
Speaker 8: there because then we don't know what they're going to

390
00:24:08,876 --> 00:24:10,676
Speaker 8: do it. And we were at a pitch because the

391
00:24:10,716 --> 00:24:14,276
Speaker 8: media is all down there, you know, it was awful.

392
00:24:14,636 --> 00:24:16,596
Speaker 8: So she's like, I'll secure the clothing the way it

393
00:24:16,596 --> 00:24:18,836
Speaker 8: needs to be secured. I'm going to do as much

394
00:24:18,876 --> 00:24:20,396
Speaker 8: of an analysis as they can. We're going to find

395
00:24:20,396 --> 00:24:23,196
Speaker 8: out what they didn't do and then will write at a

396
00:24:23,276 --> 00:24:25,196
Speaker 8: report and we're going to have to have our body agive.

397
00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:31,556
Speaker 1: So almost a year later, on July thirteenth, twenty eleven,

398
00:24:31,796 --> 00:24:34,836
Speaker 1: at ten oh seven in the morning, the concrete vault

399
00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:38,316
Speaker 1: containing my Teresa's casket was removed from the ground at

400
00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:42,316
Speaker 1: Inglewood Park Cemetery. The vault seal was broken and the

401
00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:45,876
Speaker 1: casket was taken into custody by the coroner and transferred

402
00:24:45,996 --> 00:24:50,156
Speaker 1: to the Forensic Science Center. That day, my Teresa's clothing

403
00:24:50,236 --> 00:24:53,476
Speaker 1: and a number of other items were finally collected for analysis.

404
00:24:54,196 --> 00:24:57,676
Speaker 1: Those items included a single nail trimming cubic cares and

405
00:24:57,716 --> 00:25:02,516
Speaker 1: a mysterious material referred to as quote loose green fuzz

406
00:25:02,716 --> 00:25:07,996
Speaker 1: like hair slash fibers located near the legs. What on

407
00:25:08,196 --> 00:25:13,236
Speaker 1: earth was that The test results weren't made public, but

408
00:25:13,316 --> 00:25:16,876
Speaker 1: doctor Hampton says that nothing useful came out of the analysis.

409
00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:21,636
Speaker 1: We can only assume that no other individual's DNA was

410
00:25:21,676 --> 00:25:24,436
Speaker 1: found on her clothes, or on her pubic hair, or

411
00:25:24,516 --> 00:25:29,636
Speaker 1: under her fingernails or on the green fuzz. Doctor Lisa Shinan,

412
00:25:29,996 --> 00:25:33,156
Speaker 1: the pathologist who had done the first autopsy, performed a

413
00:25:33,196 --> 00:25:35,516
Speaker 1: second one to see if there were signs of trauma

414
00:25:35,516 --> 00:25:37,236
Speaker 1: that had been missed the first time around.

415
00:25:38,196 --> 00:25:40,556
Speaker 6: We opened up the top of the head to make

416
00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:43,756
Speaker 6: sure that there was no internal fractures of the bone.

417
00:25:43,796 --> 00:25:47,116
Speaker 6: We didn't see anything externally, and there was nothing on

418
00:25:47,156 --> 00:25:49,916
Speaker 6: the X ray that suggested it. We decided to just

419
00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:52,556
Speaker 6: double check and open it up. Then there was still nothing,

420
00:25:52,796 --> 00:25:56,436
Speaker 6: so there was still no evidence of trauma, so nothing

421
00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:57,316
Speaker 6: had changed.

422
00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:02,596
Speaker 1: Then a forensic dentist examined my Teresa's teeth. That's because

423
00:26:02,756 --> 00:26:05,956
Speaker 1: during her exam just before the burial, clea kof had

424
00:26:05,996 --> 00:26:10,436
Speaker 1: observed pink discoloration. Pink teeth is a phenomenon that can

425
00:26:10,516 --> 00:26:14,236
Speaker 1: happen when blood flow to the teeth is impeded. Historically,

426
00:26:14,396 --> 00:26:17,356
Speaker 1: it's been linked in medical literature with strangulation.

427
00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:26,756
Speaker 6: The old wisdom was that it could be associated with asphyxia,

428
00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:28,116
Speaker 6: but it's.

429
00:26:28,116 --> 00:26:28,956
Speaker 7: Really not.

430
00:26:31,036 --> 00:26:34,636
Speaker 6: The only possible explanation.

431
00:26:35,836 --> 00:26:39,236
Speaker 1: Pink teeth can also be an artifact which results from

432
00:26:39,276 --> 00:26:41,716
Speaker 1: the head being lower than the rest of the body.

433
00:26:42,236 --> 00:26:43,996
Speaker 6: And that could just be a function of how the

434
00:26:44,036 --> 00:26:48,796
Speaker 6: person was lying, which could have a totally innocent explanation.

435
00:26:49,836 --> 00:26:53,276
Speaker 1: At the second autopsy, the forensic dentist did observe some

436
00:26:53,476 --> 00:26:56,916
Speaker 1: pink discoloration at the roots of several of Matreesa's teeth

437
00:26:57,516 --> 00:27:00,316
Speaker 1: and on the surface of one of them, but in

438
00:27:00,356 --> 00:27:03,636
Speaker 1: her opinion, it wasn't a case of true pink teeth.

439
00:27:04,436 --> 00:27:07,356
Speaker 1: There was no justification to change the cause of death

440
00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:11,476
Speaker 1: to homicide. Shinen wrote that the cause of death must

441
00:27:11,516 --> 00:27:16,796
Speaker 1: remain undetermined. Still talking to her today, she says, the

442
00:27:16,796 --> 00:27:19,636
Speaker 1: color of the teeth might be meaningful in the context

443
00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:20,476
Speaker 1: of other evidence.

444
00:27:21,476 --> 00:27:25,876
Speaker 6: I think because of the circumstances. Could the pink teeth

445
00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:29,836
Speaker 6: support a diagnosis of asphixia, Well, it could have happened

446
00:27:29,996 --> 00:27:33,396
Speaker 6: that she was strangled, in which case the pink teeth

447
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:34,236
Speaker 6: would support that.

448
00:27:35,356 --> 00:27:38,836
Speaker 1: The hyoid bone, the delicate bone in the throat, might

449
00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:44,316
Speaker 1: have provided direct evidence of strangulation. Another person's DNA, had

450
00:27:44,316 --> 00:27:47,596
Speaker 1: it been found on my Teres's remains, could have been significant.

451
00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:51,876
Speaker 1: But there was no hyoid bone and no report of DNA,

452
00:27:52,916 --> 00:28:03,196
Speaker 1: so that left circumstantial evidence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think

453
00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:09,396
Speaker 1: you're just kind of okay perfect. So let me just

454
00:28:09,436 --> 00:28:13,236
Speaker 1: start at the beginning, which is how you got to

455
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:17,156
Speaker 1: know Rick Forsberg. We're in an apartment deep in the

456
00:28:17,276 --> 00:28:21,636
Speaker 1: valley talking to a woman named Lisa lapour. She's petite,

457
00:28:21,676 --> 00:28:24,476
Speaker 1: with gnarled hands and pale blue eyes and a cell

458
00:28:24,476 --> 00:28:28,156
Speaker 1: phone that's almost always out of service. It feels like

459
00:28:28,236 --> 00:28:31,236
Speaker 1: a small miracle to meet her in person. Haley and

460
00:28:31,236 --> 00:28:34,236
Speaker 1: I have been door knocking houses and residential hotels for

461
00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:37,596
Speaker 1: months trying to find her. Finally she picks up the

462
00:28:37,636 --> 00:28:40,356
Speaker 1: phone and says we can come over, and then she

463
00:28:40,436 --> 00:28:43,076
Speaker 1: tries to cancel the meeting fifteen minutes before we arrive,

464
00:28:43,756 --> 00:28:47,996
Speaker 1: but we ignore that text and show up anyway. Lisa

465
00:28:48,276 --> 00:28:52,516
Speaker 1: is one of Rick's victims. She met him in twenty twelve,

466
00:28:52,636 --> 00:28:56,356
Speaker 1: about three years after my Teresa's disappearance. They were basically

467
00:28:56,436 --> 00:28:59,436
Speaker 1: drug buddies, and one day when she was hanging out

468
00:28:59,436 --> 00:29:01,236
Speaker 1: with him, he came at her.

469
00:29:02,076 --> 00:29:04,396
Speaker 5: Rick just got freaked out and he just attacked me.

470
00:29:04,436 --> 00:29:07,316
Speaker 5: He just grabbed me and started punching me and choking me.

471
00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:11,516
Speaker 1: I know it's probably horrible to remember, but can you

472
00:29:11,556 --> 00:29:12,076
Speaker 1: describe it?

473
00:29:12,076 --> 00:29:15,036
Speaker 5: In my throat and the got me on the ground.

474
00:29:15,076 --> 00:29:17,836
Speaker 5: He started to punch me repetitively in the face, and

475
00:29:17,876 --> 00:29:22,996
Speaker 5: then he's strangling me, and everybody was sitting there, just

476
00:29:23,036 --> 00:29:26,916
Speaker 5: sitting there watching that. They didn't even move. I didn't

477
00:29:26,916 --> 00:29:30,116
Speaker 5: do anything you know, helped me.

478
00:29:32,036 --> 00:29:34,156
Speaker 1: She has no idea what provoked him.

479
00:29:34,516 --> 00:29:36,236
Speaker 5: He's just off in the head, that's all.

480
00:29:36,796 --> 00:29:39,156
Speaker 1: Lisa's blocked out a lot of the details of what

481
00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:41,956
Speaker 1: happened and was Rick saying anything?

482
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:42,316
Speaker 8: Was this?

483
00:29:42,996 --> 00:29:43,636
Speaker 1: Was yelling?

484
00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:44,076
Speaker 2: Was he?

485
00:29:44,476 --> 00:29:45,276
Speaker 5: Don't you remember?

486
00:29:46,516 --> 00:29:50,076
Speaker 1: But the feeling is still with her. Did you think

487
00:29:50,076 --> 00:29:50,796
Speaker 1: you were going to die?

488
00:29:50,876 --> 00:29:51,116
Speaker 7: Yes?

489
00:29:51,116 --> 00:29:53,476
Speaker 2: I knew I was going to die.

490
00:29:53,956 --> 00:29:55,916
Speaker 5: I knew it. There was no doubt I was going

491
00:29:55,996 --> 00:29:59,676
Speaker 5: to die. It's really traumatizing. I feel like I'm going

492
00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:00,556
Speaker 5: to throw it right now.

493
00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:05,676
Speaker 1: At some point, as Lisa lay there being strangled and

494
00:30:05,716 --> 00:30:09,076
Speaker 1: punched by Rick, her thoughts shifted away from her own

495
00:30:09,196 --> 00:30:11,636
Speaker 1: predicament to my race, and.

496
00:30:11,636 --> 00:30:14,076
Speaker 5: I was thinking, this is what her last moments were like.

497
00:30:14,156 --> 00:30:16,596
Speaker 5: You know, this must be what her last moments were like.

498
00:30:21,156 --> 00:30:24,196
Speaker 1: Neither the coroner nor a team of homicide detectives had

499
00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:27,556
Speaker 1: been able to figure out how my Trees died, but

500
00:30:27,676 --> 00:30:33,676
Speaker 1: Lisa believes she knows. Back before Rick nearly killed Lisa,

501
00:30:33,876 --> 00:30:36,356
Speaker 1: when they were on good terms, she spent a lot

502
00:30:36,396 --> 00:30:38,516
Speaker 1: of time with him at a house belonging to a

503
00:30:38,556 --> 00:30:43,556
Speaker 1: Montanito friend of his. This wasn't the Robin's house. It

504
00:30:43,636 --> 00:30:46,236
Speaker 1: was a big spread at the top of Cold Canyon Road,

505
00:30:46,916 --> 00:30:51,836
Speaker 1: just past will Smith's estate. The owner, Mark Wallace, was

506
00:30:51,876 --> 00:30:54,516
Speaker 1: several years younger than Rick, but he was a Montanito

507
00:30:54,596 --> 00:30:57,916
Speaker 1: boy through and through. He'd grown up there running around

508
00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:01,396
Speaker 1: the hills with the older kids. Then, like his father,

509
00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:04,636
Speaker 1: he'd embarked on a career with the Los Angeles Fire Department,

510
00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:08,836
Speaker 1: becoming a firefighter and paramedic. But Mark was also a

511
00:31:08,876 --> 00:31:13,076
Speaker 1: bit of a renegade. His business card from Wallace and Associates,

512
00:31:13,196 --> 00:31:16,076
Speaker 1: a home building concern he runs on the side reads

513
00:31:16,196 --> 00:31:22,876
Speaker 1: quote buildings erected, land developed, LSD, pot bars, emptied computers,

514
00:31:22,956 --> 00:31:28,996
Speaker 1: verified missiles, tested, bodies inspected. The card identifies him as

515
00:31:28,996 --> 00:31:35,756
Speaker 1: CEO and quote head hancho slash motherfucker in charge. In

516
00:31:35,796 --> 00:31:37,916
Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand and nine, when Rick was

517
00:31:37,956 --> 00:31:41,236
Speaker 1: released from prison, Mark was separated from his wife and

518
00:31:41,276 --> 00:31:46,396
Speaker 1: living alone. His house was the ultimate bachelor pad. It

519
00:31:46,516 --> 00:31:51,076
Speaker 1: was perfect for entertaining and perfect for shooting porn, porn

520
00:31:51,196 --> 00:31:55,716
Speaker 1: being another business Mark dabbled in on the side. In

521
00:31:55,756 --> 00:31:59,116
Speaker 1: those days, Mark Wallace's house was a place where just

522
00:31:59,156 --> 00:32:03,196
Speaker 1: about anything went. And Rick toodling around the neighborhood on

523
00:32:03,276 --> 00:32:06,596
Speaker 1: an old motorcycle, Mark gave him was a frequent visitor,

524
00:32:08,276 --> 00:32:11,196
Speaker 1: so when law Enform Horseman started looking into Rick, they

525
00:32:11,316 --> 00:32:20,916
Speaker 1: focused on what was happening at Mark Wallace's house. Next

526
00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:22,276
Speaker 1: time on Lost Hills.

527
00:32:22,676 --> 00:32:24,836
Speaker 5: I told a police officer what I heard, and I said,

528
00:32:25,316 --> 00:32:26,996
Speaker 5: I'm going to scream it from the tallest mountain. If

529
00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:30,836
Speaker 5: you guys forgot something or whatever, I'm going to investigate

530
00:32:30,876 --> 00:32:32,636
Speaker 5: this because there's a killer down there. I'm going to

531
00:32:32,676 --> 00:32:33,436
Speaker 5: find out about it.

532
00:32:34,956 --> 00:32:45,756
Speaker 1: That's next in episode ten the wally pad. Lost Hills

533
00:32:45,836 --> 00:32:49,076
Speaker 1: is written and hosted by Me Dana Goodyear. It was

534
00:32:49,116 --> 00:32:52,996
Speaker 1: reported by me and Hailey Fox, our senior producer. The

535
00:32:53,036 --> 00:32:57,036
Speaker 1: show was created by Me and Benadere. Lost Hills is

536
00:32:57,076 --> 00:33:05,716
Speaker 1: a production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to

537
00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,756
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus and you can binge the whole season right

538
00:33:08,796 --> 00:33:12,516
Speaker 1: now ad free. Find Pushkin Plus on the Lost Tail

539
00:33:12,636 --> 00:33:16,756
Speaker 1: show page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm,

540
00:33:16,796 --> 00:33:18,156
Speaker 1: slash plus