1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's have a big hand 4 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: for our one and only super producer, Mr Max Williams. 5 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: I am Ben. I'm a big I think you can 6 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: clap for yourself. Max, you've fully support Yes, Yes, that 7 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: is my rider die Mr Noel Brown himself, the one 8 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: and only. I am Ben Boland. We're hurtling headlong toward 9 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: the end of one the beginning of two. Uh. This 10 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: is the time of year when a lot of people 11 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: in the US, regardless of their personal religious beliefs, are 12 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: living in Christmas Land. Right. We've we've just gotten over 13 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving hump. Hope everybody had a good one, and 14 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: now for the next. For the next few weeks, everything 15 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: is gonna be Christmas. Right. It's gonna be the Mariah 16 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: Carey song again, right, and all the all the old hits. Yeah. 17 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: People have really strong opinions about that Mariah Carey song. 18 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Like there's some jukeboxes that won't let you play it 19 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: more than once, you know, any given night. I've seen 20 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: memes about it. It's very divisive. I mean it's obviously 21 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: a stone called banger, But do I want to hear 22 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: it like ad nauseum throughout the Christmas time? It does 23 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: kind of suck some of the joy out of the 24 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: song when it's beaten to death, you know. Yeah, And 25 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: and television shows will have themed Christmas episodes your Saturday 26 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: Night Lives, your Simpsons and so on. You will also 27 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: see a lot of nostalgia, and you'll see things become 28 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: singularly important, like every every parent in the audience today Again, 29 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: whether or not you celebrate Christmas, you've heard the same stories. 30 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: They come back, insert toy here is the new hot thing, 31 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: and thus it is impossible to find, you know, an 32 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: Elmo that wants you to tickle it, which no one 33 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: thinks it's creepy for some reason, but everybody needs one 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: and they did. That was a frenzy around that weird toy. Uh. 35 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: It's one of those things where it's like, I think 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: the frenzy just comes from the exclusivity, right, Like you 37 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: gotta wonder is it manufactured? Do they not make enough 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: of them on purpose? So there would be this like 39 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: massive hysteria around what is ultimately a pretty obnoxious toy. 40 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: The novelty of which would probably wear out pretty quick 41 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: for most kids. You don't even see them around anymore, 42 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: Like I've never run into one, like in a thrift 43 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: store or anything, which surprising. Maybe they are covenant, maybe 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: like people just held onto them. And and it is 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: still continues to be an item of great pride that 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: you that you got one, you know, yeah, like a 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: badge of of capitalist honor, you know, like you wouldn't 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: see a purple heartner thrift store. Maybe that's uh, maybe 49 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: that is an unfair comparison spoiling, which would be sad 50 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: but not. Yeah. And and so we were talking a 51 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: little bit off air about different things that happened in 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: the nostalgia wave of American Christmas. And we notice, of 53 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: course that there are the same movies that pop up. 54 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: People watch them almost ritualistically with their loved ones, family 55 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: and friends. There's one film without the most creative name, 56 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: but it's definitely a classic this time of year. It's 57 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: called a Christmas Story, and the Christmas Story plot concerns 58 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: the adventures of a young man named Ralphie Ralphie Parker, 59 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff goes down here. It's kind 60 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: of tough to spoil this one, NOL, I think because 61 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: the story is so quin essentially like established culture, but 62 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: we're we're using poor Ralphie as a tangent here, I 63 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: believe a segway or just just kind of like a 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: setting the stage kind of situation. You know. It's funny 65 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: been um here in Atlanta, I think this might be 66 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: at our neck of the woods center kind of thing. 67 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: But on TBS every year, they for for many many years, 68 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: they would play a Christmas story for like twenty like 69 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: on a loop leading up to Christmas, like over and 70 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: over and over and over again. So I'm pretty sure 71 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: I've seen the entirety of a Christmas story, just not 72 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: in the right order. Like I I know everything about 73 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: that movie literally more more like backwards than front words, 74 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: but I absolutely know everything that happened. But I don't 75 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: think I've ever sat down in one go and watched 76 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 1: a Christmas story. Oh fun. So so you have a postmodern, 77 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: you have a post experience non linear. I love it, 78 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: and it is ultimately a postmodern kind of story because 79 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: it's a retelling of an era sort of stylized kind 80 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: of fantasy version of the nineteen fifties, um, you know, 81 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: with Ralphie and his brother and the you know, his 82 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: father and the leg lamp that was like, what was 83 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: that He got that as a prize or some sort 84 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: of clearinghouse sweep steaks or something like that, this major reward. 85 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: I just remember that, but I don't remember quite how 86 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: he got it. Yeah, it's um, it's weird, like a 87 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: love letter to this period of time, definitely through rose 88 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: colored glasses. It's uh, it's believed to be set in 89 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: nineteen forty, but there are a lot of anachronisms in 90 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: there because it's really it's really more about the vibe, 91 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: like the Norman Rockwell esque vibe of how people viewed 92 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: America at the time. And it heads up, folks, this 93 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: is a two part episode. This is gonna be a 94 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: wild ride. We're gonna go some weird places, will return 95 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: to a good place. But we are very proud of 96 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: ourselves for making sure you know it's a two part episode. 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: In advance. Thank you Max, Thank you Uh Nolan. I 98 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: would like to accept this award on behalf of all 99 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: the other episodes that accidentally became two parters. Major award, 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: this major award. And there's this thing, No, there's this 101 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: thing that happens there. There's so many iconic moments in 102 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: a Christmas story that you almost just remember them as 103 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: moments rather than like one long narrative. You know, he 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: gets his tongue stock, he curses in front of his parents, 105 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: you'll shoot your eye out, etcetera. For a big part 106 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: of the movie, he has this quest two interact with 107 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: his favorite radio program, the equivalent of like his favorite 108 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: TV show, and his favorite radio program is something called 109 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: Little Orphan Annie. Uh and Max Nolan, I have a 110 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: clip of this the Little Orphan Annie radio show that 111 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: we'd like to would like to just drop in play that. 112 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:02,119 Speaker 1: For us, it was the Little Church Balls Want Long? 113 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Who do you see? It's a little yesterday. Remember Mr 114 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: Flint was trying to sell stock in the new Bridge 115 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: to Jake at the emporium. But and he convinced Jake 116 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: you ought to think the matter over before he went 117 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: into debt to buy stock. But here it is the 118 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 1: next day after school and Annie and joy of walking 119 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: across the snowy field pard the river to see the 120 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: new bridge. She'd see any it sure did seem good 121 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: to get back to the old school again, didn't I'll 122 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: say it? Did you? Gee? The kids were awful glad 123 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: to see it's worth it, and I was awful glad 124 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: to see them. Wow, gee, Willakers, that was an awful 125 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: team Ben, Where did you dig that one up? Whole wowser? Okay, 126 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, I just I think we buried the 127 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: lead there little bit. She's trying to convince somebody not 128 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: to go into debt to buy stock. That's that's that's 129 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: the conflict, that's the central const like in this episode. 130 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: This episodes from nineteen thirty six. So yeah, I didn't 131 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: want to spoil the whole thing, but yeah, I'm glad 132 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: that stood out to you guys as well, the concept 133 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: of like what do children worry about? Yeah, so this 134 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: was a theme. I mean, this is something that that 135 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: played throughout the series. Um, you know, it originally was 136 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: a comic strip that was based on subject matter that 137 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: went even further back to a five poem called Little 138 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: Orphans Annie by James Whitcomb Riley. I think it maybe 139 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: it wasn't based on that exactly, but originally the comic 140 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: was going to be called Little Orphan Auto Um, but 141 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: a friend of the comic strip creator, Harold Gray, was 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: convinced to change the name and the you know, the 143 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: gender of the of the main protagonist to Little Orphan 144 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: Annie based on the I think popularity of that poem. 145 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: But it was all about like strike breaking and like 146 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: it was very anti Roosevelt policies. You know, it was 147 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: very interesting. And then it was like clearly you know, 148 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: meant for kids, I think, but I mean adults like 149 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: the Funnies too. There's a lot of an interesting kind 150 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: of like buried adult messaging and like old comic strips. 151 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: If you look back at the the father or the 152 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: adoptive father, the figure, Yeah, it's literally named Warbucks as 153 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: a surname, so that's clearly seems like a war profit 154 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: here went over my head as a kid. I thought 155 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: he was just wealthy, going over my head until you 156 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: just pointed it up. And I didn't even think about 157 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: the the not too subtle buried message their war bucks, 158 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: like it was my war chests, you know, Yeah, that's 159 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: exactly what it was. Um. But that transferred over to 160 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: the radio show and then this was like you know 161 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: the golden age of of wireless you know, the radio people, 162 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: families gathering around hearing you know, the news and all 163 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: of that stuff. But also these serialized drama performances, you 164 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: know that that like you know, had new stories, Monster 165 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: of the Week kind of things a week to week. Yeah. Yeah. 166 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. So if you look back at 167 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: this now from one, it's easy for us to go, okay, 168 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily controversial. There are some hidden political agendas 169 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: in there. Are they a proposed to today? Maybe not exactly. 170 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: And this probably goes over the heads of most children. 171 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: It might surprise folks to realize that a lot of 172 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: parents were squigged out by this radio program because it 173 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: had a hold on their children. And when we say hold, 174 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: it had the same kind of hold that a show 175 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: like Breaking Bad, or The Sopranos or or The Wire 176 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: a Game of Thrones would have on people. But it 177 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: was a children's show and it was four kids, and 178 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: it was able to direct children to do things, to 179 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: push their parents for things, namely products, right to make 180 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: their parents buy stuff because uh, you know, little orphan anity, 181 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: just like old dirty Bastard said about Wu tang is 182 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: for the kids. Parents were freaked out. They didn't appreciate 183 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: all the child directed marketing. They were to the mercy 184 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: of whatever these folks who created the show decided to 185 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: sell absolutely and little or Finanni was also in the 186 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: words of the wood Saint clani Fern, which remember nothing 187 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: to with because her catchphrase was she was the spunky 188 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: orphan with a heart of gold and a fast left, 189 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: and that was referring to the fact that she and 190 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: her dog Sandy were kind of this like almost like 191 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: detective pair Like you could clearly see the influence and 192 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: other pop culture pairings of like kid detectives, kind of 193 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: like Scooby Doo for example, you know, clearly influenced by 194 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: the pairing of you know, Annie and her dog um 195 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: or things like Brain and Penny and inspector Gadget. You know, 196 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: this is very much a pop culture trope that clearly 197 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: got its beginnings here. But you're right, then the political 198 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, messaging aside, which apparently really you know, stemmed 199 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: from Gray's own political views. Um many of the plots 200 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: of the comics, apparently, um almost got the comic pulled 201 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: from the newspapers that it ran in, Like I'm just 202 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: gonna really quickly because this interesting time ran an article 203 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: called the surprisingly controversial plots that almost got Little Orphan 204 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: Annie axed, one of which I'm just gonna read it 205 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: right from here because it's fantastic. Um. The plot takes 206 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: a turn for the propagandistic when political racketeers threatened to 207 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: destroy one of Daddy Warbuck's factories. To the editor of 208 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: the Huntington Herald Dispatch, the rhetorics seems better suited to 209 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: Ann Rand than to America's Best Love Orphan, as he 210 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: describes the offending plotline per time, here's from the letter 211 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: to the editor. All political leaders, and it follows every 212 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: public official are at once indicted as crooks. And to 213 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: accept such a sweeping indictment is to permit the creator 214 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: of Little Orphan, Annie and the Chicago Tribune syndicate to 215 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: attack and condemn all persons, all institutions, and all ideas 216 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: save those they choose to label acceptable. And I pointed 217 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: out because it's interesting because clearly the source material of 218 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: this comic, or the inspiration behind it, I guess, is 219 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: pretty virulently pro capitalism. It's a little interesting because it's 220 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: the dude's politics seems to change a little bit as 221 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: time goes on, but he ends up in a place that, 222 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: while seeming to be like pro hard work and the 223 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: working man and all that really kind of raises up 224 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: characters like Daddy Warbucks, who are ultimately the you know, 225 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: fat cats right in the factories and all of that stuff, 226 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: And it takes on this kind of weird, almost propagandistic tone, right, Yeah, 227 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: but it was very randy and in its concepts, you know, 228 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: just just as you said. In fact, when F. D 229 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: Are was elected president in thirty two, Great appeared to 230 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: kill off Warbucks, later implying that Warbucks could not coexist 231 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: in the world with Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He actually killed 232 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: him off in forty five, and then after the real 233 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: life Roosevelt dies, Gray brings Daddy Warbucks back and he 234 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: and he says in the comic strip, so how I 235 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: feel that the climate here has changed since I went away? 236 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: So it's like, come on, man, this is for kids. 237 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: What are you doing getting in their heads this way? 238 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: This is this is at best a precursor to the 239 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: approach that is later perfected by a big corporation Little 240 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: orphan AI. This massively successful radio program was I Kid 241 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: you not. This is a true story. It was pretty 242 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: much one long commercial. It was entirely sponsored by Ovaltine 243 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: and the writing staff they were all advertising executives at Ovaltine. 244 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: You know, for some, for some advertisers, this is like 245 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: a dream you wouldn't dare to dream. The radio show 246 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: existed entirely to propagate the use of Ovaltine in the 247 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: American public, and it was so successful because it was 248 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: a new approach. It was a new kind of media 249 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: um well, not necessarily a new strategy, but it was 250 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: new in terms of its target audience. And we see 251 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: the dangers of this reflected today and things like um 252 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: Facebook or Metaverse or whatever meta I'm supposed to call 253 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: them now apparently you can see this and things like 254 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: their plans to make an Instagram for children, exclusively and 255 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: specifically for children. And this just shows us that there 256 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: is a cyclical, continual history of media technology scares when 257 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: it comes to kids, like even now, you know, there's 258 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: a lot of debate about when a child should have 259 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: a smartphone or when a kid should be allowed to 260 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: have UM Well, nowadays, I guess to be a TikTok 261 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: account because kids aren't really on Facebook unless they have 262 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: to keep in touch with you know, their mom or 263 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: their uncle or something. But what's startling is that it's 264 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: not so surprising that these conversations always come up, but 265 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: it is incredibly surprising that they are so similar from 266 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: one century to the next. I mean, you and I 267 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: were looking into some of this stuff and we found 268 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: a great Slate article called a History of Media Technology 269 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: Scares or Don't Touch that Dial by Vaughan Bell, and 270 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: in this Bell points out that these concerns over like 271 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: technology and how it affects it molds the young minds 272 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: of children date all the way back to the birth 273 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: of literacy. Was a technology that's so crazy and I 274 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: love this and we're gonna get back to a Christmas 275 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: story and all of the uh, you know, new fangled technology, 276 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: you know as we kind of know it today, which 277 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: really set the groundwork for what we know as advertising 278 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: and television and commercials and all of that good stuff. 279 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: But it's true, Uh, it was intensely distrusted. Socrates warned 280 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: against writing itself because he thought that it would quote 281 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: create forgetfulness and the learners souls. And let's remember that 282 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: so much of the history and mythology of that time 283 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: was passed down through the oral tradition, and it was 284 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: very important memorization and all of that was such a 285 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: crucial feature of that storytelling and essentially academia. So Socrates 286 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: warned that it would actually corrupt the youth. He advised 287 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: that children won't be able to distinguish fantasy from reality, 288 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: and so it's up to parents to ensure that they 289 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: only hear allegories that are deemed to be proper as 290 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: opposed to quote unquote improper tales. Uh could in fact 291 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: completely screw up their developmental process, you know, as their 292 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: brains are developing in this crucial time. And you know, 293 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: the this whole line of thinking from Socrates really did 294 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: set a foundation for what we think of today as 295 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 1: like too much screen time. You know, it's kind of 296 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: evolved into that kind of thinking. Are like video games 297 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: will rot your brain and all that kind of stuff. 298 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: Older generations typically worn and are suspicious of new technology, 299 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: whatever it might be, whether it's um even the new 300 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: type of music. You know, like to maybe our grandparents, 301 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: like jazz and kind of swing music at the time 302 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: would have been incredibly controversial, you know, to their parents. 303 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: They would have thought of that as there's the devil's music. 304 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: And nowadays, you know, with music being so all over 305 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: the place, and they're being certainly some pretty extreme forms 306 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: of it. Parents that maybe aren't as keyed into that 307 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: kind of pop culture stuff certainly, or maybe you're a 308 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: little more religious in their background certainly could look at 309 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: things like slipnot or like heavier music is absolutely being demonic, 310 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, satanic in some way and not not to 311 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: mention like corrupting like centuries ago. So when it's like 312 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: I don't and music with different instruments, that's on God, 313 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: Like give me Gregorian chat. Okay, back when things were good, 314 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: I like this is you're you're absolutely right. And the 315 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: same thing happened with television, The same thing happened with VHS, 316 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: the same thing happened with dungeons and dragons. Now it's 317 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: a social media technology. Yeah, now it's all about social media. 318 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: And so when the radio came into play, this immediately 319 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: fit the bill of a new technological threat to the 320 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 1: minds of the young. Wireless radio was now accused of 321 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: distracting children from practicing the same literacy Socrates have warned 322 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: about so long ago. Radio was apparently also making children 323 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: do terribly in school, and a big part of the 324 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: blame fell specifically on these audio thick shin programs, which 325 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: now are considered so like old timey you you find 326 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: them as nostalgia clips on YouTube, or if you go 327 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: into a a Cracker Barrel, which is a nostalgia based 328 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: restaurant here in the US, you'll see you'll see DVDs 329 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: of stuff like Little or fananim or The Shadow Knows 330 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: sold in their um faux country store. But think about 331 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: the alternative what it was luring kids away from. You know, 332 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: they're like very strict taskmasterly like school teachers that were 333 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: just kind of teaching them. They're you know, reading, writing 334 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: and arithmetic, probably not with a whole lot of theatrical flare. 335 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: So I mean even just the most basic kind of 336 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: levels of performativeness or theatricality that they would hear on 337 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: what we now you know, clock is being incredibly dated 338 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: and stuffy. Radio shows would have been just like a 339 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: whole new world of of of information and of just 340 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: you know, and absolutely could have could have been distracting. 341 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: It's described here, um in this Slate article, Um his 342 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: sure you have media technology scares from the printing press 343 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: to Facebook. Um As. Actually they quote a Grammophone magazine 344 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: article from ninety six um and it says that children 345 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: quote had developed the habit of dividing attention between the 346 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: hum drum preparation of their school assignments and the compelling 347 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: excitement of the loudspeaker. Yeah, play that back in your head, folks, 348 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: because I I have a question, and I don't want 349 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: this to be gotcha journalism or got a game show 350 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: question for you guys, but Noel Max, When is the 351 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: last time that you just watched a television show or 352 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: a film without also being on your phone, without also, 353 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, working on something on your computer, Or when's 354 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: the last time you listen to a song without also 355 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: being on your phone or engaging with some other piece 356 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: of media. That's what the grammophone is complaining about, right, Well, 357 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: it's an important question, and I think the pandemic has 358 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: really tipped the scales in a negative way. I mean, 359 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: spent so much time just consuming media in our homes 360 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: and multitasking with the subtitles on and and we have 361 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: just infinite distractions at our fingertips. I recently went and 362 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: saw a movie in the theater and and it kept 363 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: having to fight the urge to whip out my phone. 364 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: But you know that in the theater you will get 365 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: shamed and and for good reason. But at home, when 366 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: it's just you in charge, you can do whatever you want. 367 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: And I would argue that you are not fully experiencing 368 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: any of those things, you know, if you're like kind 369 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: of bouncing back and forth between watching the New Dune 370 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: movie while also checking the you know, doom scrolling on 371 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: Instagram and also perhaps um, you know, dealing with a 372 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: kid or something that's actually there in person. Okay, so 373 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: for you, it was a it was a movie. It 374 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: was you answer to your question was it was? It 375 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: was a movie in the theater a week or so ago, 376 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: I saw The French Dispatch by west Anderson. Nice Max, 377 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: how about you? Yeah, I look that Noel mentioned like 378 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: a movie because like when I'm watching a movie, whether 379 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: it's at home or out, I will generally us watch that. 380 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: But from at home, I'll take a break and go 381 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: do something. But like, and I watch a lot of sports. 382 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: And if I'm watching sports, I'm like have multiple games on. 383 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: I will be texting people, I will be doing watch 384 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: mccallough and everything else in the side. Like I never 385 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: just sit down really just watch TV and watched sports. 386 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, it reminds me of there's a scene and oh, brother, 387 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: where art thou Where there the group is. I think 388 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: it's a brother art that where the group is singing 389 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: as the Saggy Bottom Boys. And then you cut to 390 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: different homes where people are listening to this song and 391 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: people are just sitting there in their rooms with the 392 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: radio on, just kind of nodding because they're fully they're 393 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: fully engaged. And so for the Gramophones example, and I 394 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: love that you bring this quote in all the Grammophones 395 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: example of multitasking is interesting because they phrase it as 396 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: the worst thing since unsliced bread. You know, if I 397 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: could play with that cliche. So it's strange because now 398 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: we see that that is normal in this age of 399 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: ubiquitous information. And as we continue, we are going somewhere 400 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: with this folks. We're going back to Annie. We're gonna 401 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: hang out with her for a while. As we continue 402 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: in this episode, it's a question that maybe you can 403 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: ask yourself and your friends and your family, um kids, 404 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: if you have kids, which is, how how normal is 405 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: it to multitask this way? And how normal should it be? Um? 406 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: It's a good question, and I think it really is 407 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: at the heart of the same argument that we still 408 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: make today when it comes to social media, it's too 409 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: intense based on you know, for kids brains, it takes 410 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: them too many different directions, and it gives them too much, 411 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: too many options, and they they're not really equipped maybe 412 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: to juggle all those options, just like I'm not equipped 413 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: to juggle watching done uh dooms growing on Instagram and 414 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, pay them out with my cat. You know, 415 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: I would probably pick one and roll with it. And 416 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: that became the crux of the argument in the nineteen 417 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: thirties as these kind of children's radio hours began to 418 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: get more and more popular, and shows like specifically Little 419 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: or Finanni dealt with, you know, kind of more shady 420 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: aspects of of life. You know, there's like seductive villains 421 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: and you know, cat burglars like you know, breaking into 422 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: homes and criminals and like very unsavory types that maybe 423 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: kids would have kind of been um shielded from even 424 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: knowing about. Yeah, yeah, and children have a tremendous capacity 425 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: for imagination and radio creates, uh, something that we still 426 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: owe a lot to in the world of podcasting, which 427 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: is a theater of the mind of folks. We hope 428 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: that you enjoy our occasional re enactments of things on 429 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: on any of the shows the three of us do 430 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of work, but there are 431 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: a lot of fun and we quite enjoy them. Podcast 432 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: making No Mistake at her best or a direct descendant 433 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: from the golden age of radio. Parents were worried, like, 434 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I like that you pointed this out, man. Parents were 435 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: worried that this gave kids too much to think about, 436 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: to put it in really simple terms, and that it 437 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: might make things that are dangerous in real life seem appealing. Right, mysterious, 438 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: Edgy Cool, I love that you just said. Mysterious. Bennett 439 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: reminds me of There's this amazingly hilarious and heartwarming scene 440 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: in The Sopranos where Bobby bacalas kids they've lost their mother, um, 441 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: and there's a whole subplot where like Janice is like 442 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: trying to essentially, you know, reel them in and make 443 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: become like the new mom, and she's told psychopath playing 444 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: all these head games. But at one point Bobby's daughter 445 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: is upset and Bobby's like, did you let her read 446 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: her Nancy Drew book? So it was like she wouldn't 447 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: even calm down by reading her Nancy Drew book. She 448 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: said they were too mysterious. That's great, h Nancy drew, Well, yeah, 449 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: like this is this is fascinating. There's a letter that 450 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: one guy wrote to The New York Times with the 451 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: ninety three and he described, uh, he described the delatorious 452 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: effects that radio's children's hours would have on his kid. 453 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: He said the adventures were all too hair raising, and 454 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: he wrote, my son has never known fear. He now 455 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: imagines footsteps in the dark, kidnappers looking in every quarter, 456 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: a ghost a period and disappearod everywhere, and admitting their 457 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: blood curdling noises, all in true radio fashion. Uh. Like 458 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: he thought this was I don't know. I think a 459 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: lot of kids about the experience where you see a movie, 460 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: or maybe you hear a spooky campfire story and you 461 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: stay up late in the night afterwards because you're worried. 462 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: You know that someone in your house may have said 463 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: bloody Mary three times right, or you're worried that someone 464 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: made a past two um or candy Man past three. 465 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, you certainly feel compelled to do so um. 466 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: You know. And in the same way, I think we've 467 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: all more or less landed on like movies and video 468 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: games do not serial killers create. Uh, maybe could push 469 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: someone over the edge who's already you know, got serious 470 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: inclinations towards that kind of behavior, or maybe they get 471 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: some inspiration from a particular act they see. But in general, 472 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: healthy you know, kids with the with the balanced you know, 473 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: life style and and parents that are supportive or whatever 474 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: typically are not going to be turned into raving psychopaths 475 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: by listening to a spooky radio programmer, you know, playing 476 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: Grand Theft Auto or whatever. And this argument really does 477 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: go as far back as this, which is so funny 478 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: considering how it really was like a total theater of 479 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: the mind. So so let's get into why Little Orphan 480 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: Annie specifically. Were lots of other programs You mentioned The Shadow, 481 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, that was a big one, Um, which was 482 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: another kind of spooky masked figure fighting crime. A lot 483 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: of these were like you know, pro know d C 484 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: comics kind of vibes. You know, they were like a 485 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: protagonist sort of like with the world against them and 486 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: they were kind of trying to right wrongs and all 487 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: of that stuff sort of do good y um. But 488 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: Little Orphan Annie specifically was a kid with a dog 489 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: um and she got the brunt of a lot of 490 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: these concerns from parents. Yeah. Yeah. There was a question 491 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: that a noted educator named Sidney Gruenberg asked The Times 492 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: when she said, why is it that the children seemed 493 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: to get their greatest pleasure from the very things which 494 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: parents most deplore. That's a question people ask in the 495 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: modern day. Right, you want to make something cool, have 496 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: people's parents tell them it's dangerous and you shouldn't listen 497 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: to it. Uh. Yeah. The program that kids loved the 498 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: most and the parents hated the most was Young Ralphie's Favorite. 499 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: That part of the story is true. It is Little 500 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: Orphan Annie. So she battle the big evil unions, gangsters, pirates, 501 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: other you know, the like the the Whitman's Sampler of 502 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: ne'er do wells, scoundrels and wrap scallions. Everybody apparently listen 503 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: to that show. Richard German in the Saturday Night Review 504 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine had a great line about this. 505 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: He said, all people during that period, one to two 506 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: budding deliquents, safecrackers, stock market manipulators or whatever, all listened 507 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: to Little Orphan Annie and a group of I'm laughing 508 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: just because I know this was a serious issue at 509 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: the time. But tell, tell us, fellow ridiculous historians, if 510 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: this does not sound a bit like overkill. Here we go. 511 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: In March of nineteen thirty three, a group of concerned 512 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: mothers in Scarsdale, New York, got together to protest radio 513 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: shows that shattered nerves, stimulate emotions of horror, and teach 514 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: bad grammar. Which was a big one. They singled out 515 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: Little Orphan Annie, and he said that it was very 516 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: poor because the main character, Little Orphan Any had a 517 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: bad emotional effect and an unnatural voice. Exactly what don't 518 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: we going with all these Verdi origons about? Exactly? And like, 519 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, it introduced things like slang. You know, well, gosh, 520 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: she will ocurs. That's keen, you know, I mean, like 521 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure again as goofy and dated is that way 522 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: of talking sounds now? Now? I bet a lot of 523 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: parents really were not into that, especially teachers, you know, 524 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: they were like, no, this is essentially tantamount to swearing. Yeah, 525 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: like in that what is that? That musical? The music 526 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: man Seth McFarlane, creator Family Guy, is a great cover 527 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: of it, the one where it's like P and that 528 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: stands for pool and that in River City it's gonna 529 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: it's gonna totally upend our way of life, you know, right, 530 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean Pool, You got Pool of Step one. Next thing, 531 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: you know is the complete you know, crumbling of civilization ship. 532 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: People will be yeah, exactly, Yeah. I want to bring 533 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: that up because there's this commonality between these fears, the 534 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: idea of a slippery slope. Right, it's gonna terrorize children 535 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: in a way that compromises their moral standing and makes 536 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: them God forbid scali wags in the future. This is 537 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: what they thought was the sinister aspect of Little Orphan 538 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: Annie in the beginning, and people were adopting resolutions in 539 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: communities throughout the US that that wanted to fight back 540 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: against what they saw as the unnatural overstimulation and thrill 541 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: of children's cereals. S. E. R. I A L. S. 542 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: Mainly Orphan Annie and show called Skippy, which was about 543 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: a street willy city boy and it was a radio 544 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: and like like Annie, it was a radio show based 545 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: on a comic strip. What I what I love about 546 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: this too, though, man is I don't know if you 547 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: guys read a lot of young adult fiction, but I do, 548 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: and there's some really dark stuff in there. We talked 549 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: about roll Dall. That guy is nuts, you know, the true, 550 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: the actual original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. He's got 551 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: this banger called George's Marvelous Medicine, which is all about 552 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: a kid trying to poison his grandmother fatally while his 553 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: parents are away shopping. It accidentally makes her giant. I've 554 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: got it if you want to borrow it. It's like 555 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: a quick afternoon read. But it's it's messed up. It's 556 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: about him trying to unsuccessfully murder his grandmother. So there's 557 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: there's already so much darkness and serious themes and like 558 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: children's books and young adult content, and it may owe 559 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: a lot to this period of radio drama, but what 560 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: like how valid is that concern? Do we think this 561 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: concern that it's just it's too much for children to 562 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: hear a little orphan? It depends, right, So, like at 563 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: this time, you know, radio is just starting to come 564 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: to like the heartland, you know, in places where kids 565 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: had to maybe do chores, you know, or it was 566 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: maybe they lived in a more of an a grarian 567 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: type situation. And I'm gonna go back to the the 568 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: other pop culture reference you made, which is that song 569 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: from the music Man trouble right here in Ritter City, 570 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: River City. The lyrics are fantastic, this one verse, in particular, 571 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: frittering away their noontime suppertime, short time to get the 572 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: ball in the pocket, never mind getting dandelions pulled, or 573 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: the screen door passed, or the beefsteak pounded, never mind 574 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: pumping any water until your parents are caught with the 575 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: sister and empty on a Saturday night. And that's trouble. Yes, 576 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: You've got lots and lots of trouble. Um. So it's 577 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: the idea of this distracting element. You could argue that maybe, yeah, 578 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,479 Speaker 1: maybe that maybe they did have a point, but again, 579 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: it all comes down to discipline and like you know, 580 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: how you balance that stuff out with your kids. You 581 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: can't really blame the technology because, as we always say, 582 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: you can't really put those genies back in their bottles. 583 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: You can't shelter your kids on that stuff for long 584 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: because then what are they gonna do. They're just gonna 585 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: seek it out and and go to more underhanded lengths 586 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: to kind of get at them, you know, because they 587 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: they don't want to be left behind. That's that's how 588 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: kids are. Um. So I think to that end. There 589 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: there is a point. Is it making them, you know, 590 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: into is it robbing them in some way of like 591 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: brain capacity? Like I don't think so. I think time 592 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: has shown that, like plenty of very intelligent people came 593 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: out of this period and came out of the period 594 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: that we're living in with social media. It's all about balance, 595 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: and some kids can handle it better than others. And 596 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: a lot of that has to do with their parents. 597 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: It's true, It's true, And a lot of it has 598 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: to do with the support structure and community a kid 599 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: has beyond just their parents. But the parents are the 600 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: principal actors here, not not the media. Uh there's also 601 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: I love this slippery slope idea because it's like, ah, shucks, 602 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: mom won't let me listen to a little or fananny. 603 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna read the necronomicon Like that does 604 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: to me. It just doesn't. It doesn't quite compute. But 605 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: they they didn't get the necronomicon in the Heartland for 606 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: many more years though, so or even just like I 607 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go you know, torture cats, you know, 608 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess I'm gonna burn something. Uh. 609 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: So this it's funny because, uh, there was this great 610 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: line in a Smithsonian mag article about this period of 611 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: hysteria and and yes, we know the problematic etymology of hysteria, 612 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: but this period of panic of social outrage. In the 613 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: Smithsonian mag they point out that this radio series was 614 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: kind of like the Grand Theft Auto of its day, 615 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: which is wild but it's but it's it's funny because 616 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: this radio show for most people, I'd say these days, 617 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: you when you think of or fanany you think of 618 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: the musical that is, like you said, old based on 619 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: the radio show that has based itself upon a comic 620 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: strip that itself is based or inspired by the title 621 00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: from an earlier poem. And these adaptations and reimaginings aren't 622 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: always the same, not the same tone that comic we 623 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. It's kind of grim because grim 624 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: stuff was happening in the uh in the twenties and thirties. 625 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: And then the Broadway musical is super optimistic, right, you know. 626 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: And I will also say that that easy Street song 627 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: is pretty great. There's a lot of great songs in 628 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 1: Annie the musical, um and I mean there's things about 629 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: the movie that are pretty grim, like MS hannighan Is 630 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: is incredibly portrayed by Carol Burnett, just like sopping lee 631 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: drunk and like you know, again we mentioned earlier the 632 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: idea of the seductive villain like she is like all 633 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: you see her in her like weird kind of ninety 634 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: all the time and very inappropriate. I mean, there's some 635 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: pretty wild things in that movie as well. But the 636 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: Broadway Musical it was relatively optimistic, you're right, the idea 637 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 1: of Annie's getting rescued from this bad situation by Daddy Warbucks, um, 638 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: and then she's able to kind of help her compatriots, 639 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, escape their you know, plite as well. But 640 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: in general, the comic strip and then the radio show 641 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: it was all about, like, you know, Annie being this 642 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: kind of force of good and justice in a completely 643 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: crooked and uh and negative and abusive world. And we're 644 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: we're midway through this strange exploration, and I think Noel's 645 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: fair to say that we've already gone to some pretty 646 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: interesting unexpected spaces here. Indeed, who knows what those are. 647 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: We haven't actually listened to the edit yet. We're just 648 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: kind of flying blind here, but we know that we 649 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: definitely touched on some interesting stuff. And now I'm drinking 650 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: my ovaltine. I don't know if you see this, but 651 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: I've got a big old glass of good stuff. Yeah 652 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: for bones, for your bones, um, and it gives you 653 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: a pep. Yes. And we will return very soon with 654 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: part two of the Sinister Influence of Little Orphan Annie Uh. 655 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: So everybody make sure to drink your ovaltine. I guess 656 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: that's the main takeaway of our story today. And and 657 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to PEP, we always want to thank 658 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: our very own PEP master one and only super producer, 659 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. Thinks also to Alex Williams, who composed 660 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: the banging soundtrack that is I believe playing behind us now. 661 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: One would think so many mysteries in the world of 662 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: podcast production editing, but I really hope that Max uh 663 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: followed the president that he has set for low these 664 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: many years or months anyway, and has the music playing 665 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: underneath this as we speak. PEP PEP to Christopher Haciots 666 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: and Eaves Jeff Cotes, both here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland, 667 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: the Quister, may your pep drained from you, sir, and 668 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 1: and and leave you a husk of a man, and 669 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: that you may never darken our doorstep again. No, that's 670 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 1: not sure. I missed Jonathan. We gotta have him back. 671 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: We don't. It's not really up to us, though, so 672 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens behind the curtain. He's a busy guy. 673 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: Check out his show tech stuff, with new episodes coming 674 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: out like every day. Wait, Ben, you're not saying that. 675 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: He also like Moonlights as an another podcast teams Nemesis, 676 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: are you because that would be too much for me 677 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: to bear. I can't handle that, you know. I was 678 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: thinking of, Uh, We've got some exciting stuff on the 679 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: way early next year, folks. I was thinking of seeing 680 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,240 Speaker 1: if he might be a somewhat like a thematic bridge 681 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: in the expanding Ridiculous Universe. But it's a it's a 682 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: weird thing to sell to our colleagues, like over Ridiculous Romance. 683 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: We were like, let's explain what our whole thing is 684 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: with this guy. Do you want them on? You know, 685 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: we're still working out negotiations are underway. Jonathan's rider is crazy, 686 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: but as you said, we do love him. Shout out 687 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: of course, also to Mr Casey Pegram. Isn't it weird 688 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: that Jonathan only wants left foot socks and his rider. 689 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: What's that about? Yeah, yeah, it's uh, you know, I 690 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: gotta be honest. I've read the whole thing once, but 691 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: it took all weekend. It is very specific. I don't 692 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: know what happens with all. We have a pile of 693 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 1: just right foot socks in the office. Yeah, and then 694 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: in the whole whole section of this writer is just 695 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: like in Cipher's like Zodiac killer type stuff. It's very odd. Hey, 696 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: it takes all kinds. We've got to get a decoder badge. 697 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: We all do Cliffhanger. We'll see you next time. Books. 698 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 699 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 700 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.