WEBVTT - Duro Olowu 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.120 Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:05.400 and Adamized Studios. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.160 When my good friend duro Olowu calls me, I never 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.280 know if he's on his way to show his collection 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.640 in Paris, curate an exhibition in Chicago, visit a wool 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.599 factory in Tuscany, or just sitting down to have a 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.480 plate of spaghetti Patarka in the River Cafe. Fajura is 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.640 a man of many parts, fashion designer, art director, ventor 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.920 to young entrepreneurs, and a passionate lover of food. Right 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.680 now we are in my kitchen. I'm wearing one of 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.880 his beautiful, bright dresses, and he is grating Patarka. We'll 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.240 have a talk about everything he is thinking and doing 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.320 over a long lunch. Then he will tell me he 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.120 has to go, and as always I will try and 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.520 persuade my friend to stay with me just a little 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.680 bit longer. Okay, okay, all right, we are so action. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:04.000 Spaghetti Bataga gota guy so batarga is. I think it's 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.480 one of the great delicacies of life. Really, you know, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.840 it's identified completely with sardinia. It's the dried row of 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.440 the mullet of the gray mullet, and there is botarga 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.040 of tuna, but we always use the botarga of the 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:20.959 gray Manalat. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.440 And it's wonderful. And here's how to cook it. Two 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.920 hundred and fifty grams of spaghetti, three tablespoons of olive oil, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.360 two garlic clothes peeled and finely chopped, fifty grams of 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.199 fresh flat leaf parsley, very family chopped, one dried red 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:45.560 chili crumbled, one hundred grams of botaga, coarsely grated juice 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.560 of one lemon. Those are the ingredients. You cook the 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.640 pasta in a generous amount of boiling salted water, then 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.800 drain thoroughly and return to the saucepan. Meanwhile, heat the 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.960 olive oil in a sep fit saucepan and fry the 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.360 garlic with the parsley and chili for a few seconds. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.280 Add to the drained pasta, then stir in most of 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:14.480 the botaga, serve immediately with the remaining botago on top 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.960 or more plus a squeeze of lemon. 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:23.359 How wonderful, Oh, thank you to why botaga. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.160 It's interesting because it's a difficult one. Whenever anyone asks 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.800 you for a favorite anything, it's always best to think 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.160 like a child and go for the first thing that 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.040 comes to your mind, because there's a reason during the lockdown, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.520 and every time the lockdown was lifted. One of the 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.120 greatest things that I got to do with friends was 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.280 to sneak out the river cafe and thinking about the food. 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:52.239 It was the pizzetta with talagio and time or the botaga, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.079 and the botaga had to come up top because it's 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.720 a very I mean, the pizzetta is difficult to make, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:58.360 but good. 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.080 Botaga spaghetti is. 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:02.760 The most difficult thing is I would never try to 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.160 make it at home, and that's why I always look 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:06.240 forward to having. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.520 A river cafe it But have you been to Sardinia. 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.160 I went to Sardinia twice, once in my teens and 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.960 once in the early two thousands. 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:16.000 I loved Sardinia. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.680 You know, you arrive in Santa as Morelda No, and 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.880 then you just think, okay, we drive inwards, you know, 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.959 and there you just drive past this wonderful, dry, almost brutal, 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.040 but beautiful terrain, and every way you stop and eat, 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.760 you start to feel the essence of this part of 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.040 Italy that has a history of severe poverty and very 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.360 harsh conditions. It sort of has that feel. So to me, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.720 spaghetti potaga reflects that terrain and the colors and just 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.080 the coarseness, but delicious coarseness. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.280 I think if you go to Sardinia, but targa is 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:58.120 so associated with Sardinia. It is the food of Sardinia, 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.480 and I don't think I'd ever had it until I 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.280 went to Sardinny and then you have it everywhere. You 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.400 have it on salads, you have it in you know, pasta's, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:07.800 you have it on other fish. 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.440 And in a way for me eating Botoga that it 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.040 wasn't the first time I'd had spaghetti bottaga, but it 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.159 was different. It was a revelation because you really understand 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.960 how it's so basic in one way, you know, it's row, 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.360 but at the same time it's not caviat it's row 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.080 and it's but it's so sort of respected and beautifully treated, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.240 and I love that. Of course, I've eaten it in 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.839 Milana Lodge where go. I also in Peruja, where I 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.400 have a factory that makes my network. But I mean, 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.680 I haven't been to Sardinia for many years, but I 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.760 have my little sardina at the River cafege. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.039 Yeah, it is it's also I think Sardinia is so wild. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.000 It is you can imagine the coast, but then it's 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.640 so the interior is like the wild West. And what 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.360 about the food of your country? Tell me about growing 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.320 up in Lake. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.359 Yes, and you know the food in Nigeria. First of all, 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.919 I had a Jamaican mother, but my mother learned to 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.359 cook all the Nigerian food. And I'm Uruba, so we 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.920 had this household where we had Nigerian food all sorts. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.240 It's very meat based, I have to say, at least 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.160 from the region that I'm from. So we had this 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.960 real mix. So we'd have Nigerian food, you know, pounded yam, 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.760 rich vegetable sauces with meat or fishes. But then we'd 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.400 also have rice and peas, you know. And my mother 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.239 would make the best coconut candy and she would bake 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.719 and she would make rice and peas. We didn't have 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.280 aki and sulfish so much, but we had jahanny cakes, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:39.800 which they're almost like little buns of our fried They're 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.520 like little flour buns, but the dough has to be 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.840 just right and you stick them in the oil and 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.880 they quick fry. And usually we'd have them with scrambled 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.760 eggs on the side, but in Jamaica you have them 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.560 with aciine sulfish sometimes, but we had this mix. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.839 So your mother came from Jamaica and how old was 0:05:58.880 --> 0:05:59.520 she when she came. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:00.720 My parents met here. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.040 My father she came to study nursing on the winter 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.720 the windwress generation, and my father came to study law 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:07.760 and he trained as a barrister. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.599 That's how they met. Had two children. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.720 Here, my oldest brother and sister, and then went back 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.520 to Nigeria in nineteen fifty nine, so just before independence. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.840 So that's how they met and they went back. But 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.719 you know, my extended family on my mother's side, a 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.480 lot of them worked on the trains and in car 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.760 factories here in Darby in London, so you know we 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.200 would always come on holiday and then we would be 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.120 staying in central London, but we would visit them. So 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:39.040 I also had that sort of incredible experience of being 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.480 with my cousins. Some of them were raster and I 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.440 was completely engulfed in that. Food was an important part 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:51.799 of that, but mostly things like Jamaican patties. Whenever we'd 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.200 have the chance to visit, my older cousin say, come on, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.400 let's go for a walk and you'd stop and get 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.960 the patties. But my parents were very very food with 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:00.480 very much. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.280 Was it important to them. Did you sit down for 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.160 dinner every meal? Every meal? Tell me about the lunches 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:06.840 and the dinner as well. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.320 Well, you know, of course in the day when I 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.640 was in school and I during the day, you know, 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.560 you go to school, but we all have breakfast and 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:15.240 then you know. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.800 What would you have for breakfast? 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.520 I mean, funny enough, the big thing with like bacon 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:25.080 and eggs, like breakfast bacon and eggs, toast or my 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:26.800 mother used to make a great thing. I mean big 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.480 beans which aren't the best, but they were delicious on 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.080 brown slices, bread toasted with a thin sort of layer 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.920 of butter and tomatoes. But you know, the thing is 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.080 there was this thing of you couldn't we could talk 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:41.960 at the table, but you know, if you sat down, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.000 the table was set, everything was set. And my mother 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.360 always cooked the other thing, which was incredibly rare because 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.160 you know, my father's this old school that my father 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:53.760 cooked amazingly. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.520 Well, I remember you telling me about your father cooking. 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:58.360 Tell me what did he cook that? 0:07:58.480 --> 0:07:58.640 Well? 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:03.200 He cooked Nigerian food really well, everything the fourie row, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.320 which is a sort of particular vegetable that has a 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:11.000 bitter taste with different kinds of meat or fish. My 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.520 father loved fresh fish, he loved catfish, he loved the 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.920 equivalent of sea bream, you know. And there were always 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.440 people in the huge market, the special fish ladies who 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.280 were the queens. But my father loved to cook. And 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.200 sometimes on Sundays or whatever, he'd say, I'm cooking. And 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.400 what struck me was my mother was an incredible cook, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.800 really incredible. But when my mother cooked, the kitchen could 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.240 look like a vombinan fish. And then they'd be a 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.760 big clean up with my father as he'd be cooking, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.000 everything would be washed and put away. Your father was 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.880 and I watched that. I mean I learned a bit 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:47.360 from that. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.280 But do you know where he learned to cook? 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:51.440 I mean, if I take my father, the son of 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.200 a king, nobody told him. My father taught himself. Yeah, 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.800 my father taught himself. Nobody told my father to cok 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.320 and he came from that sort of really. You know, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.160 he's very quiet about it, but you know, you know 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.800 that he you know, this is something that he just felt. 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.800 He loved and he took pride in He didn't do 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.200 it often, but he did it, and he loved to cook. 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.200 And sometimes he would meet us here on holiday, if 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.080 we were here, he'd come and he would go on 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.920 special trips to certain markets where you could get Nigerian 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.240 ingredients and cook. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.200 There was a comment that you just mentioned that I 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.800 don't want to that slip and you said your father 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.960 was the son of a king. I don't think I've 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.840 ever met anybody. I don't hang around the royal family 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:32.319 very much. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.720 No, No, my grandfather is an about, you know, of 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.280 a certain region. And my father said, mother, I'm saying, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.360 is my father or back insurgion. My grandfather was this 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.720 guy that we just I never really looked at this ray. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.400 We just bowed to him all the time. He was 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.960 a wonderful man and he died in one hundred and something. 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:55.120 Very stoic but very wise, tough, but very wise. We 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.160 used to go up and see him. He would come 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.959 to Legous with his whole entourage and stay with us. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.960 And what would food be like my mother's food? 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.880 He would only eat my mother's food. Really, yeah, which 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.640 was the biggest compliment considering you know there we would 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.440 eat what they cooked. We usually used to go for 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.400 the New Year, so it would go three days before 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.560 New Year. They'd be cars full of fireworks for the 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.760 kids in the village and then and then. But I 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.640 don't really remember the food. It's strange, I think because 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.640 we were just you know, it's rural, rural, and you know, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.400 you go crazy. It's like children just being allowed to run. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.600 So food was really not something that was on my mind. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.040 But again, there was a lot of meat and a 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.160 lot of fish. We didn't eat chicken in the village, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.959 and I asked my father. We ate chicken at home. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.360 But later he stopped in his sixties, and I said why, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.760 and he said, there's this whole story. Basically, chicken saved 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.960 the village. Hundreds of years ago, the enemies were coming. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.320 People ran up through the mountains. I don't know if 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.640 this is true. It's a fable. They ran off into 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.800 the mountains. When they got to the village, they were 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.920 looking for the people, but all the foot prints leading 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.840 to where they had escaped to were visible. But when 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.920 the villagers were leaving, they let loose all the chickens 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.760 because they didn't want them to be captured, and the 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.360 chickens ran all over the footprints and scattered them, so 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:18.720 they're held in high esteam. 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:19.400 I see the. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.560 Chickens generally, you know, I love chickens. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.320 When I see you in the river cafe, usually come 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.160 with one person, and you're very engaged, and I think that, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.800 how does that work when you're designing? Do you have 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.280 pins in your mouth? Can you eat or do you 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.720 do not eat? Or do you do take your team 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.280 out for meals or do you I. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.520 Don't have a team, which you know, I have to 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.400 say I have a very very small team, and therefore 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.080 it's sort of not isolated. I don't make all the things. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.319 I have someone who cuts them properly for me. I 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.400 can do the early things. But sometimes if I'm working 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:09.079 really intensely, you look and it's three o'clock and you think, gosh, 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.199 I haven't had lunch. But then I just save it 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.439 up for supper, you know, for a really good supper. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.240 So I usually, you know, breakfast, I can just have 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:21.040 a coffee and some homemade granola. But lunch, now, yes, 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.000 I will stop. And especially during lockdown, you know, you 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.800 make something and sometimes it's Yesterday's faster sauce with fresh 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.240 faster or a salad. I used to think I didn't 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.720 have the patience to make really good salads. 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:35.360 But I do. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.000 You need patience to make a good. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.200 Sell, need patience to make food patience. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.360 Yeah, when you cook at help, do you find it 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.520 relaxing to cook? Do you find it's a way of 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.240 kind of winding down? 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.400 Absolutely, because you do switch off. I mean when you're 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.720 trying to get the peel off the garlic, things like that. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.160 Concentrating tomatoes, like getting the core out is always a 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.440 chill for me. I've tried focused, but with everything else 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.439 I do not have. I was really out your eloquently 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.600 written recipe, but I never know how much of anything 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:05.040 to put in. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:06.120 I just go with my gut. 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.640 Do you go with your Yeah? Yeah? And what about 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.160 Chicago when you were there? Tell me about the show. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.920 It involved the city, it involved culture, it involved design 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:17.960 and art, and yeah. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.520 Well, you know, the director of Madeline Greenstein asked me 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.240 if I would do a show of my work, and 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.800 I thought, I mean, I love what I do, but 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.199 I just felt, you know, there's more. I have curated 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.400 art shows, contemporary art shows, and I said I wouldn't 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.120 do that, but I'll do this, and I said, I'm 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.360 going to curate because Chicago is an incredible city that 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.560 has incredible people and the most incredible things in the world. 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.600 Very quietly, it's all there. And basically I decided to 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.320 do a show that shows people in Chicago what they have. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.280 So the MCA, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago, 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.080 where I did it. I picked a lot from their collection, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.720 but then I asked every major museum there, from the 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.920 Art Institute, the Terror Foundation into it high Low, if 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.840 I could borrow works, and everyone says, oh, they'll never allow. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.920 You know, it's very complet They all did, and of 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.040 course some of the people with the greatest collections, I'd 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.880 never even seen some of their collections, but all of 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.640 them opened their doors to me, usually over breakfast, lunch, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.600 or dinner, to look at their collection and borrow anything. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.480 So really I sort of was left with this encyclopedic 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:32.479 from David Hammond's to Margriet to Lynette, to Louis Nevilson 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:37.080 to Michael Armitage, Bryce Marten, you name it. I mean 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:42.160 unbelievable mixed with Malix c Dbay mixed with it was 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:47.680 all inspiring and it all came together because they were 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.880 featured out about the size of it and the number 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.200 of works, But I think it's the same thing with 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.920 you when you're cooking. The way I approach my curatorial 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.120 practice with art, which is why I do it, is 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.840 I don't believe in put things in categories because I 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.960 always think ingredients go together when they're together, if they're 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.240 right for each other. So my approach is it can 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.120 be the biggest or the most revered artists mixed with 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.240 people that are as incredible artists but not known. And 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.600 I don't like the world or use the word outside 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.400 artists because it's so patronizing. Really, it's almost the way 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.320 women artists were called women artists in the seventies. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:28.520 And you put it all. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.680 Together and at the end, I would walk through the 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.920 gallery about an hour or two before, and it was 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.040 six huge galleries, you know, filled with work, three hundred works, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.480 and there was a calm, and that's how I know 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.640 it's fine. So yes, I wanted to really show that 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.480 city because I think a lot of people Borrow, Borrow 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.080 Borough have the shows that involve works from all over 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.920 the world, so much planning and finance or whatever, and 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.120 they have incredible things in their cities. That the public 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.320 don't see. And I think, why do people give all 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.400 this art, you know, these families and people that have 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:01.760 donated art to these museums. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.240 It's for the public to see. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.160 But it also sounds like you're a personal relationship with 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.000 the people that gay And then you had that tiny 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.400 little sense if we did this in over lunch, dinner, breakfast, 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.440 because I think that's also interesting how people use or 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.400 go to a restaurant, and so maybe do you think 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.320 that made them more relaxed with you or yes? 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:23.080 I think so. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.200 I think you're right, and I think, you know, some 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.120 people do it with alcohol, and I like a good 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.080 glass of wine or whatever, but food levels everyone alseo. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.320 It disarms certain people. And because people always think, whether 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.200 it's in the art world, in the fashion world, in 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.160 the food world, people always think that you're coming into 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.720 a scenario with a plan. No one just has lunch 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.480 with each other. Like if somebody calls references, Oh, I 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.480 was wondering if you like lunch, and I say, oh, yeah, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.240 of course, Oh do you want to know why? And I, well, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.640 I didn't think there were why you know, And you're right, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.520 I think the great thing about food you can start 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.600 even talking about business or work. But once the first 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:11.240 monscules go into your mouth slightly off, the other thing 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:18.560 is really it's almost what you said, projects, deals, breakups, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.639 getting together, dangerous liaisons, you know, ideas. I love eating 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.360 in restaurants on my own, I get great. I love 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:27.520 eating in restaurants. 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:28.800 What do you like about it? 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.320 Because it's I feel grown up? Yeah, I feel like 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.800 the movies, you know, and I feel grown up, and 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.080 I just think, you know, this is a wonderful establishment. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.760 I can just admire it. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.760 I can look around and when you hear the murmurs 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.920 and no one's looking at you, I mean they are 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.040 because they're thinking, how come? But really all you can 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.159 see are people eating. You see the movie, it's like 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:54.040 a Brunell movie. 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.160 I remember that used to come. I mean, it feels 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.359 so long ago. Yeah, but I think coming meet me 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.840 when I'm almost finished work. And so we'd come at 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.080 the end of the s and sit down, and you'd 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.919 come in a bit before, and then I would be 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:10.680 up and down. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:12.600 Remember sometimes you'd get up and say, oh, I have 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:13.600 to do this, and I'd say no. 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.840 Go go. And we watched the restaurant winding down, and 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.200 every beautiful scene come and talk to you. And do 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.480 you remember the night that you gave me a coat? 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.480 And I was waiting and those at the end, and 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.960 the restaurant was almost empty, and so I just put 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.439 on this beautiful Durer coat and then everybody was putting 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.440 it on. The receptionist was putting it on, and everybody. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.600 We were all so excited about. And I think that 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:44.520 restaurants are places where you say the unexpected happen. Magic 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.919 when you create a dress, when you created the skirt 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.879 that I'm wearing of yours right now, and the process 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.359 of creating and then it being worn and then it 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.840 may be lasting for centuries. Maybe not. And food, do 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.680 you think that there's a kind of relationship. I sometimes 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.840 think that I make a work of art when I 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.080 make up a parat art, and maybe it is a 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.200 slight work of art. It's not like a dua dress, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.680 and then it's eaten and then it's gone. So you're 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.040 judged by the moment if somebody's paratart is too sweet 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.560 or it isn't cooked enough. Because fashion is could be 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.520 defined is temporary, absolutely, but it's in fashion. But do 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.760 you think there's relationship between food? 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.160 I do, But I think what you said about food 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.359 is very interesting because it's true there's a moment for food, 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.120 and as soon as it's consumed, it's the memory that remains. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.800 But for the maker, who's like the creator of it, 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.200 that's the only moment they feel they will be judged. 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.840 I don't like to think of what I do as fashion. 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.320 I'm a fashion designer, but I'm not interested in fashion. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.040 I never have been. I'm interested in the culture of style, 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.600 and that's not pompous. That just incorporates everything, you know. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.840 But at least with clothes, you really get the chance 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.760 to see it on different women of different shapes, different ethnicities, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.040 different physiques, you know. I mean, it's a very beautiful 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:14.879 thing to see. And you see it on people you 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.359 don't know. Sometimes I'm in New York or even in 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.359 London or wherever in the world, and I see someone 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.280 run across the road and I think it's four winter. Yeah, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:29.119 twenty four winter twelve. You know, that's nice. So I 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.080 do have this constant reminder of the work in a 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.080 way that for you you have to keep creating it. 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.040 You know, it's not it comes and it goes, but 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.160 it's it's more sustaining routie than I work aout. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:42.920 Food is life. 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.919 Food is life. Clothes a life. 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.400 Close a life, but food is life. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.800 Yeah. And do you think that when you talked about 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.720 food in growing up, because your clothes are a reflection 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.840