1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. And today we're going 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: to talk about space and NASA's most recent program intended 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: to put American astronauts back on the Moon and eventually 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: to go beyond the Moon. But first let's do a 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: quick look back into the history of the space program. 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: So back in the early nineteen sixties, the United States 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: was in a fierce competition with the then Soviet Union. 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: The Soviets had shocked Americans upon the launch of the 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: satellite Sputnik that was the first man made object launched 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: into orbit around the Earth. Sputnik didn't really do a 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: whole lot of other than send out a little beap 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: of a radio signal as it traveled miles above the 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Earth's surface, but the implications of that launch were enormous. First, 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: the fact that the Soviets could launch an object into 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: orbit suggested that the USS are also had the capability 19 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: of launching, say, you know, a missile somewhere else, like 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: across the world. At the United States coupled with a 21 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: nuclear warhead. That was a chilling thought. The US and 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: the USS are held a great deal of animosity for 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: each other, which is putting it lightly, or at least 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: the governments of those countries did, and each government supported 25 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: an awful lot of propaganda aimed at vilifying the other side. 26 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: As a child of the eighties, I remember a lot 27 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: of sort of anti Soviet, anti Russian kind of messaging 28 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: in pop culture and beyond well anyway, the second part 29 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: of this is that the world is a stage, as 30 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: Shakespeare once wrote, and on that stage, the Soviets were 31 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: poised to take on the role of most technologically and 32 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: scientifically advanced nation on the planet. And that was something 33 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: that the US government wasn't too keen on either, and 34 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: so there was a very strong incentive to give the 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: US space industry its own shot in the arm to 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: catch up and then ultimately to pass the Soviet space program. 37 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: The space race would showcase the best and worst of 38 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: human traits. Among the best were ingenuity, problem solving, collaboration, exploration, 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: and curiosity. Among the worst, you had pride, you had 40 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: boasting not to mention the fact that the finish line 41 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: kept getting pushed back whenever one side would achieve something notable, 42 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: like you might say, oh, well, really, the real test 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: is to put the first person up in space, And 44 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: then the Soviets did that, and the Americans said, well, really, 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: the real test is docking to spacecraft in space together. 46 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: And then the Americans did that, and the Soviets said, well, 47 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: really it's and so they kept pushing that back until 48 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: finally it got to the real goal isn't to put 49 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: something into orbit, but to get to the moon, and 50 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: that was viewed as the ultimate goal, the ultimate finish line. Now, 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: I mean, for reals, a lot of the space race 52 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: was really just about moving those goal posts so that 53 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: one side could not easily declare victory and superiority over 54 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: the other side. And yes, it is more than a 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: little bit childish. It might remind you of kids playing 56 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: a game where they keep changing the rules whenever it 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: seems like they're losing. However, that childish desire is also 58 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: what helped drive and perhaps more importantly, fund the actual 59 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: engineering and science that would lead to some of the 60 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: greatest achievements in human history. These are achievements that would 61 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: spend off numerous beneficial technologies that we rely upon and 62 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: benefit from today anyway. In the US Space Agency, NASA 63 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: initiated a new program named Apollo, and this was an 64 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: official response to a promise that had been made in 65 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one by US President John F. Kennedy. He 66 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: announced a commitment to get astronauts to the Moon by 67 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: the end of that decade. Now, in Greek mythology, Apollo 68 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: is the son of Zeus. He's the god of the arts, 69 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: of poetry, and of the Sun. The Apollo missions saw 70 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: several successful moon landings, beginning with Apollo eleven in July 71 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine and ending with Apollo seventeen in December 72 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. The program also had its share of tragedy. 73 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty seven, three astronauts died in a pre 74 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: flight test when a fire broke out in the cockpit 75 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: of the command module. NASA would later designate this mission, 76 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: originally known as Apollo two oh four, Apollo one, in 77 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: an effort to honor the three astronauts who lost their 78 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: live in this accident. Apollo seventeen would mark the last 79 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: time a human would set foot on the Moon, and 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: that stands true up to the date of this recording. 81 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: No human has been back to the Moon since December 82 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, and that's what brings us to today's topic, 83 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: because once again NASA and numerous partnering companies and organizations 84 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: are looking to send people back to the Moon's surface. 85 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: This time, the goal is to include women astronauts in 86 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: the project, something that just didn't happen back in the 87 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies. The new program is called Artemis. Now, 88 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: like Apollo, the name Artemis comes to us from Greek mythology. 89 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: She's actually Apollo's twin sister, which makes sense as a 90 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: sort of the twin Sister project to Apollo. Now. Frankly, 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: I would argue Artemis is much better suited as a 92 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: name for this project because she's the goddess of the Moon. 93 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: She's also the goddess of you know, the wilderness and 94 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: hunting and other stuff. The Greek gods were famous multitaskers. 95 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 1: As goddess of the Moon, she does have the perfect 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: name for the NASA endeavor to put people up there. 97 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: She did not just spring into being, either in mythology 98 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: or in the space project. In space terms, Artemis follows 99 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: some earlier attempts to get astronauts back to the Moon. 100 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: She's sort of the evolution of some earlier programs that 101 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: have since been either canceled or just transformed. So this 102 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: means we need to look at a span of time 103 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: between the Apollo missions and the upcoming Artemis missions. In 104 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: the first decade of the twenty one century, NASA announced 105 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: a program called Constellation. The scope of Constellation was pretty 106 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: darned big. It laid out the many advances NASA identified 107 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: as being pivotal for the most extensive missions to the 108 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: Moon and beyond. It called for the retirement of the 109 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Space Shuttle program. It was already on its way out, 110 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: and so the reason for that was that the Space 111 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: Shuttle program was limited in its ability. Really could only 112 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: go into orbit. It can't go to the Moon or beyond. 113 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: And also, uh the Columbia disaster had brought up serious 114 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: questions about the viability of the Space Shuttle program in general, 115 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: it was an aging fleet of spacecraft. So this particular 116 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: Constellation program laid out requirements for a new type of 117 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: spacecraft called Oriyan, also known as the Crew Exploration Vehicle, 118 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: and it's similar to the old Apollo capsules, but it's 119 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: actually larger. The end has a lot more features and 120 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: could support a crew of astronauts on a mission to 121 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: the Moon and back, or extended trips to the International 122 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: Space Station. I'll talk more about the Orion in detail 123 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: a little bit later. So the Constellation program, in turn, 124 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: was a response to a call from the US President, 125 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: George W. Bush, and he was asking NASA to really 126 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: shoot for the goals. He wanted something really aspirational and 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: inspirational to kind of get people excited about this. Presidents 128 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: tend to do this, by the way, when they need 129 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: a kind of a a boost in their own popularity. 130 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: It's great that we benefit from it from a scientific perspective, 131 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: but it does not always come from a genuine desire 132 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: to push science. Sometimes that desire is more linked to 133 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: the politics of the situation than the actual scientific goal 134 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: of the situation. And in fact, there are plenty of 135 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: people who argued that this whole approach was not the 136 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: right thing for NASA to do, that putting people back 137 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: on the Moon didn't really solve any big issues or 138 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: didn't open up any other opportunities. We had already been 139 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: to the Moon. People were arguing that maybe we wouldn't 140 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: be able to learn anything new by going back to 141 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: the Moon, that we should instead dedicate our efforts to 142 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: or other things. But the Moon is one of those 143 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: things that's easy to point out and say that is 144 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: a big challenge. How do we get back there? And 145 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: then you can worry about the other stuff later on 146 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: down the line. I think that there is value of 147 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: going back to the moon, by the way, I don't 148 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: want to dismiss it out of hand, but I can 149 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: see the validity of arguments that state maybe we should 150 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: look at other goals instead, goals that might have a 151 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: more obvious payout in either the benefits we get from 152 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: technological advancement or the direct result of the missions themselves. 153 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: So I can see both sides of both arguments, um, 154 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: and so I haven't I guess I haven't really fully 155 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: made up my mind of which side I really subscribe to. Anyway, 156 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: So we get this deadline set for this idea of 157 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: going back to the moon. The vehicle, the Orion spacecraft, 158 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: was supposed to be ready by and then you had 159 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: the goal of actually getting people back on the Moon 160 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: by it is and spoiler alert, that ain't gonna happen 161 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: this year. NASA Administrator Michael Griffin unveiled this plan in 162 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: two thousand five, and that included a plan for two 163 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: new rockets systems that would provide the umph needed to 164 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: get the Orion spacecraft out into space on its way 165 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: to the Moon or the International Space Station. And those 166 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: rockets were the Aries one and the Arias five launch 167 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: vehicles No. Two and three just one in five and 168 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: they were or four, i should say, but one in 169 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: five were also meant to kind of mirror the Saturn 170 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: one and Saturn five rockets that were used in previous 171 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: NASA programs. Areas one was the smaller of the two rockets. 172 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: That one was intended to launch payloads like the Orion 173 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: spacecraft and its crew into orbit. The Area's five would 174 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: be a heavy lifting rocket and it would be used 175 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: to launch significance of amounts of a payload into space 176 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: of cargo. So if you wanted to create say Ace 177 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: Moon station, you know, to actually build a station on 178 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: the Moon, you would use a series of Aries five 179 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: rockets to launch those payloads into space and then presumably 180 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: you would find a way of getting them to the 181 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: Moon for construction. So it's not that different from models 182 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: like SpaceX, where they have the Falcon nine rocket or 183 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: launch vehicle that can send a capsule into space, or 184 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: the Falcon nine Heavy, which is meant to push much 185 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: heavier payloads into space. Developing the rockets would be another 186 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: really big task on top of building this Orion spacecraft. 187 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: But this was a thing that Griffin thought was necessary. 188 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: Lunar missions are going to require a lot of support 189 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: systems in order to make sure the astronauts can get 190 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: to the Moon, they can land there, they can operate 191 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: on the Moon, and then they can return from the 192 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: Moon safely back to Earth. That fires a lot of work. 193 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: So according to NASA estimates, relying on older launch vehicles 194 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: like the Delta or Atlas rockets would require many more 195 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: launches to get the required equipment back into space. So 196 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: that would drive up the cost of the program. And 197 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Griffin was saying, well, it's gonna cost a huge amount 198 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: of money to develop new rockets, but it will cost 199 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: another huge amount of money if we rely on older rockets, 200 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: because we'll have to we'll have to use more of them. 201 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: And so he was weighing those two options and ultimately 202 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: decided that it made more sense to push for brand 203 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: new launch systems. Now spoiler alert. This whole plan that 204 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: was laid out in two thousand five did not pan out, 205 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: at least not as Constellation had laid it all out. 206 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: We didn't have a spacecraft ready in time, nor are 207 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: we ready to put anyone on the Moon this year. 208 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: And one of the main contributors to the shortfall was 209 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: down to budget. The original Hollow program had a budget 210 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,359 Speaker 1: of twenty five point eight billion dollars from nineteen sixty 211 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy three. If we adjust that for inflation 212 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: and look at it in today's money, that would come 213 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: out to about two hundred sixty billion dollars, a truly 214 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: princely sum. But that was across the entire lifespan of 215 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: the Apollo program, not just one particular year. In nineteen 216 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: sixty six, the peak year the Apollo program. From a 217 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: vegetary perspective, the agency spent the equivalent of forty seven 218 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: point eight billion dollars in today's money, and that was 219 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: just for the Apollo program. So the budget for all 220 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: of NASA in two thousand five, not just Constellation, but 221 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: all the programs that NASA oversees was fifteen point six 222 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: billion dollars. That's a lot less than fourty seven point 223 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: eight billion. Trust me, I ran the math. Even adjusted 224 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: for inflation, that comes to just under seventeen billion dollars. 225 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: It is an enormous amount less than what was spent 226 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, or the equivalent of what was 227 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: spent in nineteen sixty six. And yet Griffin was describing 228 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: Constellation as Apollo on steroids. So that got a lot 229 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: of people asking, can you really design Apollo on steroids 230 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: if you're using a budget that's less than half of 231 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: what Apollo's program spent in nineteen sixty six. So this 232 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: was a question that a lot of people were asking, 233 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: and ultimately the answer appears to be, now, you can't 234 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: really do it. So despite having access to less money, 235 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: NASA still really tackled this challenge. I mean, a lot 236 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: of people poured a ton of work and effort into 237 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: trying to make this happen. In two thousand nine, the 238 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: agency released a statement saying the Orion would not be 239 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: ready for a fourteen launch. They were hoping that they 240 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: could maybe make it a twenty fifteen deadline. Um, but 241 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: here's the thing. While on on the surface that says, oh, 242 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: it's a delay of just one year, that's actually not 243 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: that bad, especially when you consider the budgetary restraints. It 244 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: actually was three years later than what Griffin had been 245 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: hoping for. He had hoped to have the Orion ready 246 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: for launch by twelve, so now they were sure it 247 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be ready till at least. The agency was 248 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: really trying to narrow a gap that was going to 249 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: exist when the space shuttles retired and the USA would 250 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: no longer have a spacecraft capable of launching and docking 251 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: with the newly finished International Space Station, so the I 252 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: s S gets finished around at the same time the 253 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: space shuttle program retires. Now, the USA is reliant on 254 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: other countries and their space program in order to get 255 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: astronauts to and from the space station, typically Russia, so 256 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: that's not ideal, and they were waiting on commercial space 257 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: companies like SpaceX to catch up, but that just hadn't 258 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: happened yet. So the real hope was that the Orion 259 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: spacecraft could take over those duties and make USA independent 260 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: of other countries and also of commercial spacecraft companies, where 261 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: NASA would be owning and operating these vehicles. But that 262 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: just wasn't gonna happen. That gap was going to get 263 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: wider and wider, not narrower. NASA did have a cost 264 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: overrun of three point one billion dollars, though again this 265 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: was much less than what the agency spent during the 266 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: Apollo program years. But that delay of the program and 267 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: they overrun in costs gave Constellation a really bad reputation. 268 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: That was a reputation that President Barack Obama actually referenced 269 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: back in two thousand eight. NASA also predicted that the 270 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: program would continue to cost more than had been originally projected, 271 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: with an increase of about a hundred forty percent of 272 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: the original budget marked out for the years between two 273 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: thousand ten and two thousand and fourteen, not great news. 274 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: On top of that, the focus of NASA was almost 275 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: entirely on the Orion spacecraft and the Arias one launch vehicle. 276 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: Again no big surprise here. The idea of sending people 277 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: to the Moon is generally one that people really get 278 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: excited about, and excitement translates into governments approving bigger budgets 279 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: because you know, representatives want to support the things that 280 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: their constituents are really excited about. But that meant that 281 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: the Area's five rocket, the heavy lifting rocket, had a 282 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: much smaller development budget that all the focus was on 283 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: the crude stuff. The Orion crew doesn't c R E 284 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: W E D the Orion spacecraft, and the Areas one 285 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: launch vehicle, not the Area's five, but the Areas five 286 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: was gonna need a lot of money. I mean, this 287 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: was a heavy lifting rocket concept, but that meant that 288 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: because it didn't get that big budget, the development was 289 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: getting delay it over and over again, and that led 290 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: to a point where analysts believed that based on the 291 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: budgetary trajectory at NASA, the earliest the Arias five rocket 292 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: would be able to launch the lunar landing hardware that 293 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: would be necessary to actually land on the Moon would 294 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: be sometime in the twenty thirties, if that were at 295 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: all possible even then, so that would delay that that 296 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: deadline of landing on the Moon by more than a decade. 297 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: The idea here was that the Space Agency would put 298 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: a lunar landing spacecraft into Earth orbit, and it was 299 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: to be called the Lunar Surface Access Module or l SAM. 300 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: Later it was renamed the al Tear, and an Aries 301 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: five would launch this al Tear into Earth orbit. Because 302 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: it was heavier than the Orion spacecraft, so you wouldn't 303 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: want to use like an ARIES one rocket, you need 304 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: the heavy lifting rocket. There a separate areas. One rocket 305 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: would launch an Orion spacecraft into Earth orbit, and then 306 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: the Orion spacecraft would rendezvous with the orbiting al tear. 307 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: The two would dock and then together they would make 308 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: the rest of the trip to the Moon. Upon entering 309 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: lunar orbit, the two spacecraft could separate. The entire crew 310 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: of the Orion could move over into the al Tear 311 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: because the Orion would be automated and it would just 312 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: remain in orbit around the Moon. Then the al Tear 313 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: would land on the Moon. The astronauts would go out 314 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: and you know, do moon stuff. Then they would come 315 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: back to the altear, launch off the Moon back into 316 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: orbit doc with the Orion, transfer back over to the 317 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: Orion spacecraft, and then they could make the trip back 318 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: to Earth. But because of these budget limitations, the focus 319 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: on the Orion and the ARIES one vehicles meant that 320 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: all of this other stuff, the ARIES five and the 321 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: lunar module, all of that just remained hypothetical. It was 322 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: a proposal, not an actual spacecraft. So while the agency 323 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: might have produced an Orion spacecraft in time to get 324 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: into space. By there was just no hope of making 325 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: enough progress to land on the Moon any earlier than 326 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: the twenty thirties, and some people thought that even that 327 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: was too ambitious. Meanwhile, NASA, the agency was struggling with 328 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: budget constraints in general, not just for the Constellation program. 329 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: Sometimes one project would have to siphon funds intended for 330 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: a totally different project. You had a lot of internal 331 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: battles in NASA as different project leads would kind of 332 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: squirrel budgetary money away that was intended for some other 333 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: project for their own. That did not help morale in 334 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: the agency. And moreover, it was never enough to cover 335 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: all the costs that were mounting up in NASA received 336 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: its new budget from the U. S government, and that 337 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: budget listed zero for the Constellation project. I'll explain more 338 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: in just a moment, but we'll take a quick break. 339 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: So why did the US government pull the plug in 340 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: two on the Constellation project? Well, it's actually pretty complicated 341 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: to answer that, but it comes down to several factors. So, 342 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: for one thing, the design specs for the various components 343 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: in the Constellation project had changed over time, some of 344 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: them had changed a few times since two thousand five. 345 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: The team made various determinations that then led them down 346 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: different paths, requiring NASA to invest more in new technologies 347 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: and new designs and launchcraft. And the initial plan would 348 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: have seen using them using more components that already existed, 349 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: right that we're already in production. But a lot of 350 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: the decisions they made meant, oh, no, we're gonna have 351 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: to actually make new stuff. So that meant that the 352 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: process was going to take longer and also cost more. 353 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: The prospects didn't look promising as far as achieving goals 354 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: on time, so that was another strike against it. And 355 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: you also had the case of a change in political administrations, 356 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: which frequently shakes things up with government funded projects. In fact, 357 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest challenges NASA faces with space travel. 358 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: It's not just the incredibly difficult task of designing technology 359 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: capable of bringing people into space safely and back home again. 360 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: It's dealing with a changing political climate that may have 361 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: vastly different priorities than the previous administration, which in turn 362 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: can mean that the funding you were counting on early 363 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: in the project disappears midway through the project and that's 364 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: that just means it's the end of your your your 365 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: whole process. Want a way to run a space railroad? Right. So, 366 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: in two thousand eight, when Obama won the presidency, one 367 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: of the things that followed was a change in NASA administrators. 368 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: He and his advisers had a different set of priorities 369 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: than the previous administration, which included dedicating more money toward 370 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: commercial space companies like SpaceX rather than going down the 371 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: traditional path in which NASA would contract with big companies 372 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: like Boeing or Lockeed. Griffin resigned upon Obama taking office, 373 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: which in turn is not an unusual thing to happen 374 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: when you have a change in administrations. It's not it's 375 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: not out of the realm of of of normal you know, 376 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: practice for administrators to resign. In those cases, it often happens. 377 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: His replacement would eventually be Charles Bolden, himself a a 378 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: former astronaut. Theo takes several months before Bolden would be 379 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: appointed that position and confirmed as the new administrator of NASA. 380 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: These challenges are part of why the private space industry 381 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: was able to get a foothold. Private companies aren't beholden 382 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: to a government for their budgets, although a private company 383 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: might find itself burning through its startup cash before it 384 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: can become a viable business, and private space companies like 385 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: SpaceX were becoming prominent right around the same time, which 386 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: in turn created a chance to rely on those companies 387 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: for key components rather than having them all be designed 388 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: or contracted through NASA. After a committee evaluated Constellation and 389 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: determined that the program simply could not succeed given its 390 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: very ambitious goals coupled with its very limited resources, the 391 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: project got the axe. It wasn't necessarily that the project 392 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: was bad, just that its reach was further than its grasp. 393 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: NASA was to shift money over to long range goals 394 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: such as developing new heavy lift rockets and propulsion systems 395 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: to be used in space, all with an eye towards 396 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: powering missions to Mars in the future. The area's rockets 397 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: and the Orion were scrapped, at least temporarily. Congress reacted 398 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: negatively to these changes because, well mostly because they weren't 399 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: included in the decisions. Obama amended his decision after encountering 400 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: intense opposition from certain members of Congress, and he brought 401 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: Orion back into the picture, so it no longer was scrapped. 402 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: It was now back on the docket, and he set 403 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: a deadline for a new lawn system to be ready 404 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: to go by Congress then took that plan and tweaked 405 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: it by giving NASA the directive to repurpose the rocket 406 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: designs for the Constellation project and have that ready to 407 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: go by twenties sixteen. The new launch vehicle would be 408 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: called the Space Launch System or s l S. One 409 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: of Obama's advisers said it was it was pretty clear 410 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: that members of Congress were doing their best to keep 411 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: contracts with big companies that had been involved in Constellation, 412 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: indicating that this might have been some sort of you know, 413 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: smokey filled room politicking going on here rather than you know, 414 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: technical discussions. One other goal in this era was to 415 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: develop a mission in which NASA would send astronauts to 416 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: an asteroid, again as sort of a staging ground for 417 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: an eventual mission to Mars, and that's where things mostly stayed. 418 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: During Obama's administration, NASA was working on developing these initiatives, 419 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: and the private space industry began to grow at the 420 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: same time. Now, ultimately that asteroid mission would get scrapped, 421 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: but it would stick around for quite some time. Now. 422 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: When Donald Trump won the presidency, things would change again. 423 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: So one thing you do often see with these changes 424 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: in administrations is that a succeeding administration will attempt to 425 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: set more ambitious goals than the preceding one. It's a 426 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: way for presidents to kind of set themselves apart and 427 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: to try and get the nation excited about some particular initiative. 428 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: So Obama's administration was looking at the moon and asteroids, 429 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: with a further goal being Mars in the future. Trump's 430 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: approach was similar in that it was Moon and then 431 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: straight onto Mars. Now I'm not going to go into 432 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: all the budget details here except to say, despite the 433 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: fact that you kept seeing these lofty goals in place, 434 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: you didn't necessarily see an enormous boost in budgets at NASA, 435 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: certainly nothing close to the peak that was spent back 436 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six with the Apollo program. The budget 437 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: fluctuated year to year. In TWI was nineteen billion dollars, 438 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: but a year later the budget had reduced down to 439 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: eighteen point eight billion dollars. In ten, it would bounce 440 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: back to nineteen point five billion, but it kind of 441 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: hovered right around that area, you know, just under twenty 442 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: billion dollars. And they're still political battles being fought around 443 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: the subject of relying on commercial space companies like SpaceX 444 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: versus going the traditional route where NASA lands contracts with 445 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: specific big companies like Boeing and Lockheed in order to 446 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: build spacecraft. These battles typically play out with congressional representatives 447 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: from states that rely on big manufacturing jobs, with those 448 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: companies like Boeing and Lockheed arguing that the key elements 449 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: of any mission should ultimately be owned and operated by NASA. 450 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: Then others say that the financially responsible thing to do 451 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: is to outsource this to commercial space companies, whom they 452 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: argue can do the same work but for less money. 453 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: And a lot of these argue has come down to 454 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: financial and political matters, again, not technological decisions, and it 455 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: gets really messy. Tech is way easier to explain. In 456 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: April twenty nineteen, NASA announced that the Artemis program and 457 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: its ambitious goal of putting a man and woman on 458 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: the Moon by twenty twenty four would become a reality. 459 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: Of course, we have to remember that elements of This 460 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: plan had been in development since two thousand five, because 461 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: the SLS is largely built upon the bones of the 462 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: proposed Aries five rocket design. Heck, the Orion spacecraft, which 463 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: will actually hold the crew of a NASA Artemis mission, 464 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: has been the one piece that's been most consistently in 465 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: development since George W. Bush was president. In February twenty 466 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: the document titled Moon twenty twenty four Mission Manifest made 467 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: the rounds now. NASA has since disputed the contents of 468 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: this document, saying that it does not accurately reflect the 469 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: current state of the Artemis pro program. However, as of 470 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: the time of this recording, it's the most recent version 471 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: of the plan I can find. Everything else is kind 472 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: of gone dark, So I'll explain the the manifest version 473 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: of the mission here with the caveat that things have 474 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: already changed. But this plan kind of gives us a 475 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: peek into the ambition surrounding the Artemis program, even if 476 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: the subsequent plan that will get announced probably right around 477 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: the time this episode publishes, might have more details. So 478 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: here we go. In April twenty twenty one, according to 479 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: this manifest, NASA would test a Block one s l 480 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: S launch vehicle carrying an unmanned Orion spacecraft in a 481 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: mission dubbed Artemis one. So that raises a question, what's 482 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: a Block one s l S. Well, the s l 483 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: S is designed in a way that will allow NASA 484 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: to swap out elements further down the line to give 485 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: it a a boost in performance. Specifically, will allow NASA 486 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: to include more powerful boosters and rockets that are intended 487 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: to get a crew to Mars. But those are still 488 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: being designed and constructed, and so we don't even have 489 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: an example to point at for the more advanced ones. 490 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: And rather than wait on all of that to finish 491 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: before making any other progress, NASA has placed a strategy 492 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: in which an initial version of the Space Launch System 493 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: Block one will be used to get the Orion into 494 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: orbit or to send it to the Moon, and the 495 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: future will get a more powerful Block two s l 496 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: S that would be able to send the Orion and 497 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: cargo to Mars. So how does all this play out? 498 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: Will keep in mind that the Block two doesn't really 499 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: exist yet, so things could change dramatically by the time 500 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: we actually have something built, if it even gets built. 501 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: The Block one s l S is the version it's 502 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: currently being finalized now, and it will have two boosters 503 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: similar to the Space Shuttle, and it will also have 504 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: a core stage like a central like rocket tank with 505 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: four engines. The pair of solid propellant rocket boosters are 506 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: really similar to what the Space Shuttle used. In fact, 507 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: some of the early SLS launch vehicles will be using 508 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: unused Space Shuttle booster casings. Then in the future UH 509 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: new casings will have to be made because we'll have 510 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: run out of ones that weren't used in the Space 511 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: Shuttle program. But the old Space Shuttle boosters had four 512 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: segments of solid propellant rocket fuel. The Block one SLS 513 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: boosters will have five segments. The core stage, that central 514 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: rocket UH will have four engines, and it will use 515 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: liquid propellant. Once in space and the Orion spacecraft separates 516 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: from its launch vehicle, the Orion spacecraft will use what 517 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: is called the interim cryogenic propulsion stage to travel to 518 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: its destination, such as the Moon. This version of the 519 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: s l S will be able to send fifty seven 520 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: thousand pounds or twenty six metric tons of payload into space. 521 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 1: In fact, it will be able to deliver payloads of 522 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: that size into orbits beyond the Moon. Now between Block 523 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: one and Block two, NASA also plans a version of 524 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: the SLS called Block one B. It will have a 525 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: little bit more oomph, The central core will have more fuel, 526 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: it will be a bigger fuel tank, and it will 527 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: be able to put not just the Orion spacecraft into orbit, 528 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: but an orbiting habitat up into space. It can lift 529 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: a heavier payload up into space, creating opportunities for missions 530 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: and and more ambitious goals. Block two's goal is to 531 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: create a launch vehicle capable of putting forty five tons 532 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: of payload into deep space and will be used for 533 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: missions that aim to go to Mars. All right, so 534 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: let's get back to this timeline that has since been 535 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: disputed by NASA. So, according to the original timeline, or 536 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: at least the manifest timeline, UH, NASA planned for the 537 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: first Crude Orion mission. The first mission to have astronauts 538 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: aboard the Orion spacecraft, which would be called the Artemist 539 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: two mission, would launch in January twenty twenty three. The 540 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: mission will use a Block one s l S as 541 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: the launch vehicle, and it would see the astronauts go 542 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: on a path around the Moon and back to Earth, 543 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: not landing on the Moon, but doing an orbit of 544 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: the Moon and then returning, or maybe not even a 545 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: full war bit. I think it's just a flyby behind 546 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: the Moon, similar to some of the earlier Apollo missions. 547 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: In August twenty twenty four, NASA plans to launch the 548 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: Artimists three mission. This mission's purpose is to send a 549 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: lunar lander to the Moon on a Block one b 550 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,959 Speaker 1: S l S. More on the whole lunar lander thing 551 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: in a bit, because that part of the plan has 552 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: definitely changed a couple of times. October twenty twenty four 553 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,959 Speaker 1: is the big one. That would be a mission called 554 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 1: Artemis four, and the purpose would be to send astronauts 555 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: to actually set foot on the Moon, including at least 556 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: one woman. This mission would use a Block one SLS 557 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: to send the Orion to rendezvous with a thing around 558 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: the Moon's orbit. Will get back to that because it 559 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: has changed. Originally was just gonna be a lunar lander. 560 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: Now it's slightly different. And this does not end the 561 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: Artemis program right The landing on the Moon is not 562 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: the ultimate end of Artemis. NASA plans a few other missions. 563 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: One would happen in September twenty twenty five. This one 564 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: is not not technically an Artemis mission, but it will 565 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: use the same spacecraft. It will use the the SLS 566 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: Block one UM in order to launch a satellite called 567 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: the Europa Clipper, and this one would fly over to 568 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: Jupiter and get an orbiter around Jupiter and do flybys 569 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: of Jupiter's moon Europa to get a closer look. And 570 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: part of the purpose of this mission is to see 571 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: if Europa has environments that could potentially support life, so 572 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: that's really exciting. Then in June, NASA plans to send 573 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: another mission to the Moon, this one designated Artemis five, 574 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: with more astronauts visiting Old Luna, using a Block one 575 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: B SLS to get there, so this is the slightly 576 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: larger version of the SLS. The following June, NASA would 577 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: launch a lander to head to Europa, giving us an 578 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: even closer look at Jupiter's moon because we'd have a 579 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: lander setting foot, a lander unscrewed lander setting foot or 580 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: landing on Europa. But that would be super cool. In August, NASA, 581 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: according to this manifest would plan to launch the Artemis 582 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: six mission, which would once again take astronaut to the Moon, 583 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: but this time aboard a block one b SLS, And 584 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: in February nine, Artemis seven would send cargo to the 585 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: Moon and would be the first mission to rely on 586 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: a block to s l S. August nine also brings 587 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: us to Artemish eight. Um, and that is also using 588 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: a block to SLS to send people astronauts aboard and 589 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: orion mission. I have no idea where that one specifically going. 590 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: It might be a mission to test the block too, 591 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: for a manned spaceflight mission in general. Um, but maybe 592 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: it's going to the Moon. I don't know. The manifest 593 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: was unclear, and the final two Artemus missions that were 594 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: in that manifest included a twenty thirty one called Artomus 595 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: nine that would be a cargo mission using an SLS 596 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: block two and an Artemus ten that would also use 597 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: a astronaut lad mission on a block to SLS. So 598 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: that's what the manifest had laid out, which NASA again 599 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: has disputed, saying that there are numerous errors or discrepancies 600 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: with their current plan. But that's the most information I 601 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: have as of the recording of this podcast. It gives 602 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: us a general idea of what they were thinking when 603 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: we come back. I'll talk about some other things that 604 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: have complicated this, but first let's take a quick break. 605 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: As I record this, we're in a blackout on information 606 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: about further details of the Artimist program, largely because NASA 607 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: is in contract negotiations with multiple companies for different parts 608 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: of this program. So there's a lot of details that 609 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: haven't been nailed down. There's nothing to share because they 610 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: haven't decided which version they're going with on some of 611 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: these things. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking. But while we 612 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: don't have concrete facts to talk about, we can at 613 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: least go over what NASA has in mind. Now, I've 614 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: mentioned the Orion spacecraft several times without really going into 615 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: any real detail about it. Again, out of all the 616 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: pieces for the Artemis program, this one has had the 617 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: most consistent support behind it. Since two thousand five, the 618 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: first Orian spacecraft has been completed in in manufacturing. So 619 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: it's something that we can actually talk about because there 620 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: is one hasn't been used yet, but it exists. It 621 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: has changed a few times since its original concept of 622 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: The prime company responsible for building the Orion spacecraft is Lockheed. 623 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: Now lots of folks call Orion a gum drop shaped spacecraft, 624 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: and to me it looks really similar in design of 625 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: the old Apollo capsules, but it's larger and fancier than 626 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: this old spacecraft. It could carry more people. The Apollo 627 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: spacecraft would carry a crew of three, the Orion is 628 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: designed to carry a crew of four. A lot of 629 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: the documentation says they could carry a crew of up 630 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: to six, but NASA consistently describes it as being a 631 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: four person spacecraft. It is capable of traveling in space 632 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: for twenty one days, or it can uh ex ut 633 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: down in space for up to six months when docked 634 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: with some other spacecraft like the International Space Station. NASA's 635 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: plan is to crew the Orion spacecraft with four astronauts, 636 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: though as I said before, it could potentially hold as 637 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: many as six, at least according to most documentation i've 638 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: I've read. The crew module, which is the bit that 639 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: the astronauts will actually be in, is the part that 640 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: looks like an old Apollo capsule, but bigger. It has 641 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: three sixteen cubic feet of habitable volume. The old Apollo 642 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: spacecraft had numerous dials, switches, buttons, and screens all over 643 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: the place, but the Orion has just three computer screens, 644 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: and it distills all of those various technologies that were 645 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: represented by those buttons and dials and switches into a 646 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: computer controlled system accessible through on screen commands, which in 647 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: itself is a pretty big departure and a big bet. 648 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that makes some people nervous, 649 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: the idea that you have these computerized systems, and you question, well, 650 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: what happens if something goes wrong? How do you take 651 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: manual control of a spacecraft. I've already talked about the SLS, 652 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: but there's a third part of that that we need 653 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: to mention really quickly, which is what NASA calls the 654 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: Exploration Ground Systems or e g S. I would call 655 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: that a launch pad. The SLS will use new ones 656 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: constructed for that purpose, and the project will also make 657 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: use of two new space suit designs. But rather than 658 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: go into detail about those space suits, I'm gonna save 659 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: that for its own podcast to talk about the evolution 660 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: of the space suit and how uh that has changed 661 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: over the past few decades. To actually visit the Moon, 662 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: NASA does have some other plans, and one of those 663 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: now is the Lunar Gateway. Before I was talking about 664 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: a lunar lander that the Orion would have presumably rendezvous 665 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: with around orbit in the Moon and then gone down 666 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: to the surface. But UM things have changed since then. 667 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: So here's how it's supposed to work. You have what 668 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: is essentially a lunar satellite or lunar space station. This 669 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: not as big as the International Space Station, but a 670 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: a station in orbit around the Moon itself. And NASA 671 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: would launch this in parts in several launches and then 672 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: construct it in space around lunar orbit. And when finished, 673 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: it should be the size of a studio apartment, according 674 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: to NASA, capable of supporting astronauts for several months at 675 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: a time if necessary. Orion would be docking with this 676 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: gateway satellite or gateway station in order to go to 677 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: Moon missions, and astronauts would not stay aboard the Lunar 678 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 1: Gateway all year round. Instead, they would just be there 679 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: for the duration of a mission before departing in the 680 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: Orion capsule to come back home. UM, and you would 681 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: have to occasionally or frequently send UM cargo up to 682 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 1: replenish the Lunar Gateway. From the gateway, astronauts would board 683 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: a spacecraft that would be a type of transfer module 684 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: so they would dock their Ryan capsule with the Lunar Gateway, 685 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 1: transfer over into the Lunar Gateway, get stuff ready for 686 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: their Moon adventures. Then they would go over into this 687 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: transfer module and that would uh detach from the Lunar Gateway. 688 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: It would make its way to the descent point for 689 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 1: the Moon's surface. It would then separate so that you 690 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: would have a descent stage, a descent module that would 691 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: go down and land on the surface of the Moon. 692 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: Astronauts would then do their thing on the lunar surface, 693 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: using the descent stage as sort of a base of 694 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: operations for up to two weeks. Then they would board 695 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: the part of that module that would be the ascent module. 696 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: So this is the part that actually launches back off 697 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: of the Moon's surface, leaving part of it behind, right, 698 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: So everyone piles into the ascent module, they launch, and 699 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: then that puts them into a trajectory where they can 700 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: rendezvous with the Lunar Gateway, dock with it, and come 701 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: back to that studio apartment floating around the surface of 702 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 1: the Moon. They could then continue work in the Lunar Gateway, 703 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: or they could transfer over to the Orion spacecraft for 704 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: the journey home now that part of the plan is 705 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: largely being left to commercial space programs, So this is 706 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: really not a description of a specific piece of technology. 707 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: It's more of a description of what NASA wants in 708 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: order for them to be able to have these missions work. 709 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: So it's more like, this is what the technology needs 710 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: to be able to do, but we're leaving it up 711 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: to various companies to present proposals on how they want 712 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: to do that. So while there's some concept art, it's 713 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: all just a placeholder. Uh, these companies could each come 714 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: up with very different proposals on how to achieve the 715 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: same goal, and and ultimately NASA will select whichever one 716 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: the agency feels as the most the perfect one for 717 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: their mission. Hard to say the best, because things like 718 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: not just the technological capability, but also the price factor 719 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: into this sort of stuff. Anyway, honestly, that's pretty much 720 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: where Artemis shakes out today. It's uh, it's a lot 721 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: of placeholders. Even to this day. That still blows my mind, 722 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: considering that the goal is to get boots on the 723 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: Moon by twenty twenty four. But then we've moved pretty 724 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: quickly in the past in the space race, and honestly, 725 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: this might be exactly what we need to drive innovation. 726 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 1: So they're generally two paths you can take when you're 727 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: making these sort of big, big programs. One is you 728 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: can work on the technology that you're gonna need for 729 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: space exploration, and then you can set a timeline based 730 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: on your progress as you produce these pieces of technology. 731 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: But that opens up the chance for projects to fall 732 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: into an observation called Parkinson's law law that's named after 733 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: Cyril Northcote Parkinson, a British author, and Parkinson observed that 734 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: work tends to expand to fill the time available for 735 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: it to be completed. So, for example, let's say I'm 736 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: researching a podcast and initially I have a deadline of 737 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: four hours to finish my research before I have to 738 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: go into the studio, and that means it's gonna take 739 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: me four hours to complete that research. I've got it 740 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: all planned out, I'm ready to go. I'm hitting the 741 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: ground running. I'll be done in four hours. But let's 742 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: say that something happens. Let's say that there's another podcast 743 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: in the studio where I was supposed to go in 744 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: they're running late. Then I'm told, hey, it's actually gonna 745 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: be two hours later than what you thought. Now you 746 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 1: have six hours to finish that research. Well, according to 747 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: Parkinson's law, that that the work of that research will 748 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: actually expand for that six hours. That does not necessarily 749 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: mean that the podcast I record is going to be 750 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: longer than it would have been if it had stated 751 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: its original studio time, or that even be better than 752 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: it would have been when I was supposed to go in, 753 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,840 Speaker 1: rather than just the work itself expanded to fill in 754 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: those extra two hours. So let's say we're working on 755 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: a project and we're not sure how long it's going 756 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: to take us to complete this project, but we're supposed 757 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,479 Speaker 1: to give an estimate, So if we're conservative, then we'll 758 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: give an estimate that's further out than what we think 759 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: we actually need, and the idea being well, things are 760 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,399 Speaker 1: gonna pop up, we're gonna have to deal with them. 761 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: So let's let's plan for it to take twenty days, 762 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: but we think it's really gonna only take ten. Well, 763 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: according to Parkinson's law, the work we're doing is actually 764 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: going to expand to fill up those extra ten days. 765 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 1: So at the end we're gonna say, boy, aren't we 766 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: glad we said twenty days because it turned out that's 767 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,839 Speaker 1: how long we needed. But there's also the possibility that 768 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: you could have completed it in ten days, and that 769 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,479 Speaker 1: you really just allowed the work to expand to fill 770 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 1: that space, that if you had given a ten day deadline, 771 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: you still have gotten the work done. There is a 772 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: diminishing return here, though. There is a point where you 773 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: might give a deadline there's just too aggressive, right that 774 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,320 Speaker 1: maybe you say, oh, it's gonna take us five days 775 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: when you really think it's going to take you ten, 776 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: and you're doing it so that you motivate yourself, but 777 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: turns out you've sabotaged the whole project because there's just 778 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: no way to get it all done in five days. 779 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,319 Speaker 1: That can also happen. So it's a delicate line you 780 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: have to walk, right. So Parkinson's law is really more 781 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: about how we let time get away from us, or 782 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,760 Speaker 1: how we allow bureaucracy to play a large role in things, 783 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: or otherwise bog ourselves down in the stuff that keeps 784 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,919 Speaker 1: us from getting the core work done. However, it does 785 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: not mean we can set these arbitrarily short deadlines and 786 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: then magically get things done faster. As I said, there 787 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: is that tipping point that you have to look at. 788 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: NASA's approach is to set aggressive but potentially achievable deadlines 789 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 1: that in turn sets expectations and the pace of work. 790 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: It also gets people into the habit of looking at 791 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: practical approaches. If the goal is to get people back 792 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: on the moon by four what are the things that 793 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: have to happen in order to achieve that goal. If 794 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: we're going to send people to Mars in the following 795 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: decade and thirties, what do we absolutely have to have 796 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: nailed down to make that happen. Rather than just having 797 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: feature creep come in where we say, oh, wouldn't it 798 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,000 Speaker 1: be nice if we also added this. By saying these 799 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: aggressive goals, you kind of push feature creep to the 800 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: side because you say, listen, our main concern is getting 801 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 1: this to happen by this date. The things that would 802 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: be nice are out of the discussion because that doesn't 803 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: contribute to what we actually have as our goal. So 804 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: that's kind of what happened in the nineteen sixties to 805 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 1: a large extent, and it does work as a motivating 806 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: factor to a certain level. Now, besides, these these timelines 807 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: have to be aggressive anyway, because NASA can't count on 808 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 1: having a budget sufficient for achieving its goals from one 809 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: year to the next. Definitely not between presidential administrations, and 810 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 1: there's the potential for the presidential administration to make a 811 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: big change in so who knows what the next president 812 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: might prioritize when it comes to budgets. So if they 813 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: set longer timelines, if NASA said, Okay, we're gonna we're 814 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: gonna give ourselves more space, no pun intended to get 815 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: this stuff done, there be a lot more chances for 816 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: things like budget cutbacks which would sabotage emission just as 817 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,240 Speaker 1: effectively as hitting some sort of technical or design challenge 818 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,760 Speaker 1: that would become harder to solve than you thought. NASA 819 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,360 Speaker 1: is moving forward with their goals that we're gonna have 820 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: to wait and see if they actually are achievable. But 821 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: in the meantime, the agency has opened up the application 822 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,240 Speaker 1: process for people who are interested in becoming astronauts. Right now, 823 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 1: the US Astronaut program has about forty people in it. 824 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,880 Speaker 1: NASA needs more for this pro program to be workable. 825 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,480 Speaker 1: So it's possible someone listening to this podcast could be 826 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: the first woman or the next man to set foot 827 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 1: on the moon. To apply, you have to meet some 828 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,440 Speaker 1: pretty high standards, which again is understandable. There are three 829 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,399 Speaker 1: general types of folks that NASA is looking for during 830 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,960 Speaker 1: this application process. They're looking for people who hold at 831 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,719 Speaker 1: least a master's degree in a STEM related field, so 832 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: like engineering or astrophysics or something like that. They are 833 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,479 Speaker 1: also looking for people who are medical doctors. It gets 834 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: more specific than that, but that's one of the three types, 835 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: and the third are people who are certified test pilots. 836 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 1: Those are the three types that NASA is looking for. 837 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 1: So if you belong to one of those three groups, 838 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: you can look into the requirements that NASA has in 839 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: place to see if you meet all the criteria. The 840 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: application process includes an online component for the very first time, 841 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 1: which is I understand it takes a couple of hours 842 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 1: to complete. I wouldn't know because I don't meet the 843 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 1: initial criteria, but maybe one of you guys can find out. 844 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,720 Speaker 1: And we'll have to wait and see if Artemis actually 845 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: gets people to the moon. We just don't know if 846 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,879 Speaker 1: it's going to be possible yet. I have high hopes. 847 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: I would love to see it happen. I don't know 848 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,240 Speaker 1: how useful it will be in the long term unless 849 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: we're actually able to use the stuff we learn on 850 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,920 Speaker 1: the Moon as UH platform for learning how we can 851 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: get to Mars. But um, it's definitely something that is 852 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: inspirational and that alone has value. You just have to 853 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: weigh that value against other considerations like risk and the 854 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,840 Speaker 1: other goals that you have with the agency, because NASA 855 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: is doing obviously a lot more than just these programs, 856 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: and you don't want to have a big, high risk, 857 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 1: high payoff project fail like the Constellation project did and 858 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: potentially set the agency backward. So it's a complicated thing, 859 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,799 Speaker 1: but we'll have to keep our eyes open. I'm sure 860 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: I'll do an update on this in the future once 861 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: we know more about what the ARTAMUS program is going 862 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,439 Speaker 1: to be uh moving forward and whether those deadlines stay 863 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: in place or if they shift around. And in the meantime, 864 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: if you guys have any suggestions for future topics, whether 865 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,319 Speaker 1: they're space related or tech company or some trend and 866 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: technology you want to know more about, send me a message. 867 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: You can contact me on social media at Facebook or Twitter. 868 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: We are tech Stuff hs W at both and I'll 869 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:34,520 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an 870 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: I Heart radio production. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 871 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,720 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 872 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,320 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.