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Speaker 1: Questloft Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: So of y'all, June is Black Music Month, and every

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Speaker 2: year we use this time to acknowledge something that really

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Speaker 2: can't be overstated. Black music is one of the foundational forces.

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Speaker 1: Behind modern culture.

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Speaker 2: Now, back when Teams Supreme and I were doing the

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Speaker 2: Questlove Supreme and now on the Quest Loft Show, we've

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Speaker 2: always tried to create a space for those stories. So

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Speaker 2: for the entire month of June, we're bringing you an

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Speaker 2: episode every day focused on the history, influence, and ongoing

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Speaker 2: evolution of black music. Team and I dug through the

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Speaker 2: catalog and selected episodes that feel especially meaningful for now,

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Speaker 2: the conversations that inform, entertain and connect the dots between

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Speaker 2: where this music comes from where it's headed. Now, alongside those,

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Speaker 2: we'll be releasing four new episodes of Quest Loft Show

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Speaker 2: featuring trailblazers, innovators, and cultural connectors and visionaries who represent

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Speaker 2: the past, present, the future of black music. I want

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Speaker 2: you to enjoy this. Thank you. What's up, lazies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: This is another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I mean

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Speaker 2: host Questlove, which means the family. We got Layah, Hello,

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Speaker 2: how are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm well, Hello, sir doing well?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're back in LA right now?

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Speaker 4: I am back in La.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. Gloom and Doom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Gloom and Doom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, May Gray June Gloom. People don't know this about La.

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Speaker 3: Get it, get it into it.

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Speaker 2: Okay. It's good to hear. Fan Tickeolo is in the

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Speaker 2: blue room. Yeah, man, yeah, man, I got a new

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Speaker 2: light bulb. I think previously you're going purple.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was on purple.

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Speaker 2: I went blue. I went cool. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: We got a legend in the building with us today,

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Speaker 4: so you know, I tried to make it cool for him.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that is what it is.

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Speaker 2: Saga, Steve, what's up, bro?

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Speaker 6: How you doing? Hi? Everybody?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 6: Everything's good? Everything's good, Thank you, Steve.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen. I will say our guest tonight is

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like all of our guests are legendary,

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Speaker 2: super legendary, but our guest tonight world famous Songwriting Hall

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Speaker 2: of Fame member having damn near pinned over close close

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Speaker 2: to two thousand joints joints in his illustrious career. He

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Speaker 2: is the architect, in my opinion, the architect of the

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Speaker 2: sound of Memphis, you know, a city that has rich

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Speaker 2: musical history, and you know, as a staff member, as

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Speaker 2: a writer, as a producer for Al Bell's legendary Stax label,

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Speaker 2: he is giving us so much magic over the decades,

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Speaker 2: along with this songwriting partner Isaac Hayes, and on his

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Speaker 2: own of course, you know, he's worked with too many

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Speaker 2: legends to name. Uh, there's Sam and Dave, There's Otis Wridding,

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Speaker 2: bar Kay's, Carla Thomas, the Emotions, Albert King, Rufus Thomas

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Speaker 2: and of course Johnny watch out for Jodie Taylor Eve.

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Speaker 2: Even if those names I mentioned are slightly before your time,

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Speaker 2: I will say that, you know, if you're a hip

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Speaker 2: hop head, can we say that his composition might be

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Speaker 2: the musical backdrop of the East West La beef.

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Speaker 4: O Man, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Well no, no, no, because the word is that you know,

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Speaker 2: Pop got yeah, Pop sort of felt that you know

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Speaker 2: who shot you was about him, which you know, we

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Speaker 2: have clear evidence that Biggie did that rhyme with Keith

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Speaker 2: Murray for the Mary j b interlude, you know, long ago.

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Speaker 4: But the truth didn't matter at that point. The truth

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Speaker 4: didn't matter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the truth didn't matter. I guess the perception was

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Speaker 2: bigger than what reality was. You know, we live in

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Speaker 2: a time where facts don't matter, and so I will

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Speaker 2: just say that, you know, between like Biggie and Wu

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Speaker 2: Tang and Kane and Mop and Will Smith and so

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Speaker 2: many others have used his work. You know, we're in

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Speaker 2: the presence of a legend and we're honored to have

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Speaker 2: the one and only great David Porter on Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, as how I read said, how do you

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Speaker 5: talk that? It's really.

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Speaker 2: You laid the foundation. So I'm just you know, regurgitating

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Speaker 2: your your life's work. So were you right now? Are

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Speaker 2: you still a membhers?

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Speaker 5: No, I'm in New York. I was speaker at the

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Speaker 5: ai mp A summit, which I left there, came right here.

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Speaker 5: That's why I have this loud jacket on. I was

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Speaker 5: along with your fan and your friend Doug it Fresh.

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Speaker 5: He wanted me to tell you.

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Speaker 4: How Oh okay, we had Doug on the show.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you know I was going to ask, like,

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Speaker 2: do you normally dressed this swinky every day?

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Speaker 5: Now? A sweatsuit guy? That's me?

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Speaker 2: Okay right now.

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Speaker 5: Loud jacket on it. But he's folk. But Dougiees wanted

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Speaker 5: me to be sure to tell you hell and yes,

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Speaker 5: it's an honor for me to be here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 5: What you guy?

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us your first musical memory?

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Speaker 5: Well, you mentioned one of the cornerstones of those memories,

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Speaker 5: and that's Maurice. I was born on the Dating Street

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Speaker 5: in Memphis, Tennessee. My next door neighbor was a family

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Speaker 5: called the Cunninghams, and they were drummers, and we sang

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Speaker 5: up the street at a church called Rosy, a Baptist

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Speaker 5: church where if you read Maurice's autobacco, he mentioned that

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Speaker 5: in his bikle but which is true? And Kelly Cunningham

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Speaker 5: and Leander Cunningham were the brothers that were older than

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Speaker 5: Carl Cunningham, who just so happened to be the drummer

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Speaker 5: that was an airplane press with Otis Redding. He was

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Speaker 5: the original drummer for the barcades. Four to us up

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Speaker 5: the street on the left hand side of the street

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Speaker 5: was Maurice White and we came together eight nine years

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Speaker 5: old singing a rose here back to church right on

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Speaker 5: that same dead end street. And the stimulus for the

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Speaker 5: impressions and the motivation for her creativity and people making

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Speaker 5: us thinking that we had some singing talent because they

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Speaker 5: were clapping and shouting, and we didn't realize it because

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Speaker 5: they were worshiping. We thought it was all about as

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Speaker 5: young kids. But the motivation to want to have the

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Speaker 5: passion for music where they stem out of that experience.

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Speaker 2: So you were nine years old when you started playing

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Speaker 2: in your church.

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Speaker 5: Well, actually I was before nine. We were going to church.

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Speaker 5: Uh yeah, but but actually singing in a kind of

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Speaker 5: a quartet that's not the right kind of word, but

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Speaker 5: loop kids singing together Linn, Kelly and Maurice and I

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Speaker 5: was about eighty nine years old. We were going to

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Speaker 5: Rose Elementary School and singing in church on Sunday. That

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Speaker 5: was the real experience of learning how to feel good

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Speaker 5: about doing that in front of people.

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Speaker 2: And you were born in Memphis, Tennessee.

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Speaker 5: I was born at two ninety Virginia Street, up against

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Speaker 5: a building called Coal Manufacturing Company, which was the last

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Speaker 5: last house at the bottom of the hill. When it rained,

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Speaker 5: water would roll down the hill and up against that

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Speaker 5: tin building and very close to going into our home.

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Speaker 5: And the next door neighbor was the Cunninghams, which Carl

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Speaker 5: was the drumming, and right up going up the hill

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Speaker 5: was Maurice and that was it right there.

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Speaker 2: Like I know, a lot of legends were born in Memphis.

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Speaker 2: Aretha Franklin was born in Memphis.

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Speaker 5: Was she notice she was? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, she was.

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Speaker 5: Her father preached Reverend Franklin preached my father's funeral, you know,

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Speaker 5: at Great Whitstone Baptist Church. Yeah. When I first when

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Speaker 5: I told her Reef that years later, it just blew

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Speaker 5: her away because she had recorded I Take what I

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Speaker 5: Want one of the compositions bizic and I and I

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Speaker 5: told her then she just blew her away. Yeah. Yes,

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Speaker 5: she was born in Memphis, Tennessee, right near Fourth Street.

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Speaker 2: So just tell me, like the general like, why is

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Speaker 2: that town so musical?

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Speaker 5: Well, there, in nineteen forty seven, forty eight, there was

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Speaker 5: a radio the first black radio station in the country

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Speaker 5: was WDA in Memphis, Tennessee. And the fact that that

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Speaker 5: before that, all of the music you heard was you know,

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Speaker 5: the pop, flavorite kind of kind of vibe. And so

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Speaker 5: the energy for the originality and I'm going to speak

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Speaker 5: for in just a second didn't come to bear until

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Speaker 5: WDIA started playing all of those amazingly emotional connecting music

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Speaker 5: by black artists. And the one thing that happened that

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Speaker 5: was really really meaningful and impactful on young kids during

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Speaker 5: that time was the individuality of artists and artists. You know,

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Speaker 5: back then you had a four piece rhythm based drums,

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Speaker 5: guitar and keys, and so in order for that kind

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Speaker 5: of magic to happen in a unique kind of way,

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Speaker 5: artists that you were listening to on the radio. One

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Speaker 5: thing that as a he had, one thing that really

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Speaker 5: manifested itself to you was the individuality of artists. You

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Speaker 5: listened to Chuck Berry and what he was doing with

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Speaker 5: the guitar and his rhythm essence of how he was

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Speaker 5: doing what he was on even though he had a

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Speaker 5: rhythm of compingment, but the focus was his guitar playing.

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Speaker 5: And you listened to Little Richard and his piano playing

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Speaker 5: and what he was doing. The individuality, in addition to

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Speaker 5: his persona as a singer was was his personality. Fats

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Speaker 5: Domino with the same piano playing. The individuality of Fats

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Speaker 5: was the Fats buy So you were you were able

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Speaker 5: Jackie Wilson with the range and the magic in his

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Speaker 5: tones and things you were looking at as a youngster,

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Speaker 5: those kind of impressions that were in turn motivating you

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Speaker 5: to understand that the magic having through music was trying

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Speaker 5: to find something that identified you and your uniqueness. And so,

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Speaker 5: starting from that kind of foundation, all of us started

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Speaker 5: trying to find that magic. So when you mentioned Al Jackson,

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Speaker 5: his father was a musician and a drummer. But L

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Speaker 5: started finding his own niche out of an individualistic way

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Speaker 5: for himself. And by the time we got to Stacks

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Speaker 5: with the slope floor in the room, the Stacks was

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Speaker 5: an old movie theater and the floor was sloping. We'd

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Speaker 5: get in there during our records. L would be at

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Speaker 5: the bottom of the floor. We'd be doing the vocal

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Speaker 5: off the top of the floor with Sam and Dave

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Speaker 5: or Johnny Taylor, Aba King or whoever. Isaac would be

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Speaker 5: the mid floor and Steve would be a little higher

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Speaker 5: than that. L heard of the lake when he would play,

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Speaker 5: and his pocket was feeling where the true essence of

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Speaker 5: the tempo was with that laid back kind of essence

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Speaker 5: that was coming throughout the room, and so but everybody

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Speaker 5: would work to find the individuality because of the motivation

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Speaker 5: of the music that we was hearing coming from Wdia,

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Speaker 5: even with BD King before he blew up. You know,

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Speaker 5: there was magic that he was finding it within himself.

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Speaker 5: Bobby Blue Blain and Johnny A's and all these people

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Speaker 5: had their own persona. Of course, was also in turn

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Speaker 5: motivating us with aspirations to do music, to try to

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Speaker 5: find that for ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Actually, I'm glad I have you now because you know,

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Speaker 2: even though it's been kind of six months since the

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Speaker 2: release of the movie. As a director, Baz Luhermann kind

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Speaker 2: of has us at arm's length a little bit with

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Speaker 2: his You know, it's when you make Hollywood biopics, it's

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Speaker 2: either like did these facts really happen? Or is this

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Speaker 2: a Hollywood tale? And I want to believe the Elvis movie,

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Speaker 2: but I gotta hear from someone that was at least

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Speaker 2: in proximity. The way they portrayed it was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: he was just hanging around the way amongst the brothers

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Speaker 2: and whatnot. I mean, is that a fact or was

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Speaker 2: that more or embellosing beers.

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Speaker 5: Lhrmann came to Memphis and asked if he could talk

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Speaker 5: to me. So he came to my studio in Memphis.

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Speaker 5: The reason he came to the studio in Memphis because

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Speaker 5: HBO did a special called The Searcher on Elvis Presley.

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Speaker 5: And if you saw the Searcher, which they showed it

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Speaker 5: for a couple of days in a row, and it

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Speaker 5: was a few years ago, then you saw me talking

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Speaker 5: about Elvis on that special. The reason that I was

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Speaker 5: able to talk about everscol So when I was a

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Speaker 5: kid walking up from the Virginia Street where I was born,

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Speaker 5: up to Beale Street, which wasn't that very far, Maurice

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Speaker 5: did the same thing. We would see people because we

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Speaker 5: were not able to go in the clubs or anything like,

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Speaker 5: we would just walk up the street and just see people.

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Speaker 5: I was a poor kid, like I said, from a

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Speaker 5: lar's family. My dad was died when I was two

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Speaker 5: years old, and so I had a little bit of

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Speaker 5: freedom of beautiful, amazing mother. So I was able to

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Speaker 5: go and just with these aspirations that want to do music,

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Speaker 5: get that kind of vibe. And so there was this

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Speaker 5: young kid, white kid hanging around the street. I didn't

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Speaker 5: know it was Elvis especially anything like that, nothing akin

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Speaker 5: to that. But I've found out that that was, in

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Speaker 5: fact Elvis, a white boy that wanted to sing black

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Speaker 5: And so what I did was I really told bears

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Speaker 5: where Elvis got the vine from. Elvis got the vine

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Speaker 5: from Roy Hamilton. And if you saw the movie The

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Speaker 5: Search It, the reason that the name Roy Hamilton is

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Speaker 5: mentioned in the movie is because I told him that's

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Speaker 5: where it came from. Otis Blackwell, who was the writer

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Speaker 5: who didn't get all of the money and certainly didn't

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Speaker 5: get all this writer credit, was a writer of so

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Speaker 5: much of the Elvis still and if you listen to

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Speaker 5: ODIs if he was alive, you see where Oldis also

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Speaker 5: got it from. But but Roy Hamilton, the flavor and

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Speaker 5: the nuances of Elvers's singing came from Roy Hamilton. Check

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Speaker 5: us out of some MISERI to catalog.

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Speaker 2: I used to Yeah, I used to listen to I

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Speaker 2: think Isaac covered Don't Let Right, Yes right, So my dad,

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Speaker 2: my dad used to play the Roy Hamilton version. Now,

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Speaker 2: I always thought that was Elvis. The turntable was too

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Speaker 2: high for me to see, like what was on the lake.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, for the longest I thought that was

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Speaker 2: an Elvis Presley song.

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Speaker 5: So what with this being straight up in real there

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Speaker 5: was an authenticity about Elvis's comment being influenced by black

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Speaker 5: artists and that that was in fact true. Elvis would

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Speaker 5: come to It was an event that WD I with

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Speaker 5: Hole in Memphis called the Good Real Review. Elvis would

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Speaker 5: show backstage at the Dead Review. There are pictures of

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Speaker 5: Elvis with Rufus Thomas and so, but that's real now.

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Speaker 3: So was he the only white gentleman to do that?

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Speaker 3: Is that why I feel so special?

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Speaker 4: Because he was just by himself?

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Speaker 5: Listen, the individuality of black talents was a template that

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Speaker 5: American used to break talents like that them finding ways

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Speaker 5: to replicate some anuances of black talents was the cornerstone

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Speaker 5: became whatever you want to call it, even up into

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Speaker 5: this day. So no, no, he was not. He was

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Speaker 5: not the only one.

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Speaker 3: And not the first I'm guessing either, just the maybe

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Speaker 3: the most talented.

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Speaker 5: He just blew up, but he, you know, he was.

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Speaker 5: There was so much magic happening around Beal Street. This

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Speaker 5: is famous street Memphis, a lot of poor people, but

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Speaker 5: we were people having a good time inside of what

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Speaker 5: they had to deal with, and that was the place

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Speaker 5: they would go to do it. And there were clubs

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Speaker 5: and the like on that street. That was magic. And

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Speaker 5: like I said, the individuality of people being proud of

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Speaker 5: who they were would manifest itself, not only in the

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Speaker 5: way people would perform on stage, but even the way

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Speaker 5: a guy who may have been working on the garments

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Speaker 5: shop were dressed for the weekend, just be having a

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Speaker 5: good time in his own world. In in the bias

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Speaker 5: and the racism that was going on in that prevalent time,

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Speaker 5: you could not kill the spirit of a people, and

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Speaker 5: that was that was what it was. And then there

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Speaker 5: was some folks lock in the Elvis would would come

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Speaker 5: and hang around that vibe and that spirit, and obviously

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Speaker 5: we eventually found out what it a being.

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Speaker 6: Friend.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you, so, you know, having come

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Speaker 2: of age in the mid seventies early eighties, I'll say

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Speaker 2: that you know, your average soul singer is pretty much

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Speaker 2: at this point like emulating Stevie Wonder like with his

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Speaker 2: soulful voice and whatnot. And so you know, I've of course,

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Speaker 2: because I wasn't born during the time when Elvis first

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Speaker 2: came out, I didn't know for sand like, so everything

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Speaker 2: I learned was you know, sort of like later in

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Speaker 2: my life. And I always knew, you know, that the

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Speaker 2: theory of like, you know, if I could find a

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Speaker 2: white boy that sings like a black guy. I'll make

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Speaker 2: a billion dollars from you know, Colonel Tom Parker saying that.

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Speaker 2: But like, in your opinion, was Elvis's voice in your

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Speaker 2: opinion as a true blue Memphis in that in that era,

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Speaker 2: was that the actual voice of a black guy?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 2: Was it if you were to put him more, was

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Speaker 2: it sort of like Bobby Carwell? Well, yeah, I know

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Speaker 2: I agree with the Roy Hamilton thing. But is that

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Speaker 2: sort of snarling thing that was gonna was that the

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Speaker 2: actual voice of because if I'm thinking of that time period,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking more like Ray Charles and whatnot. But is

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Speaker 2: it just was it just typical for black singers to

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Speaker 2: have that sort of voice?

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Speaker 5: That isn't you got to give him a little bit

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Speaker 5: of him finding what the black brother couldn't give, and

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Speaker 5: that's the whiteness of who he was. And so the

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Speaker 5: nuance is that that gave him a little bit of

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Speaker 5: a tort came out of him not being able to

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Speaker 5: replicate with the truness of what all these talents were.

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Speaker 5: And you consider what Otis was doing. Otis Blackwell, who

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Speaker 5: wrote the songs I Wish you could hurt. I met

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Speaker 5: this brother and knowing that there were a lot of

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Speaker 5: credits that were given to Elvis that I knew Elvis

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Speaker 5: didn't write the songs with him, but he's written the

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Speaker 5: songs with Otis Black well, things that I heard, those

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Speaker 5: kinds of things. But you can listen to him, and

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Speaker 5: you can hear this guy saying and you can say, oh,

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Speaker 5: Ever's got some of that from him. Ever's got some

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Speaker 5: of that from Roy Evers got some of that from him.

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Speaker 5: And so he was able to put those things together

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Speaker 5: but also find a niche that gave you a little

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Speaker 5: bit of what he was about as well. And it

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Speaker 5: became a combination of those things. But it was magnified

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Speaker 5: by the uniqueness of the Black contribution that he grew

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Speaker 5: from fast forward justin without a doubt, right. You know.

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Speaker 5: The interesting being if you think about the seventies and

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Speaker 5: before them, listen, Teddy was Teddy, Otis was Otis. Johnny

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Speaker 5: Taylor was Johnny. Albert who couldn't read, and we would

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Speaker 5: whisper the lyrics. I would be on the mic when

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Speaker 5: he was singing, say the line before he was singing.

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Speaker 5: But the uniqueness of Albert planning to get to us

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Speaker 5: hitting the line, the uniqueness of Albert was inside of

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Speaker 5: his personality as avert. Oh wow, only he to do

354
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Speaker 5: those kinds of things. You give Johnny Taylor the melody

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Speaker 5: that Isaaca and I we wrote out, got love Somebody's

356
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Speaker 5: Baby because somebody been loving mine. Now were the song,

357
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Speaker 5: and Dave wrote a song and to teachers. But when

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Speaker 5: Johnny sang the song, the individuality of Johnny took it

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Speaker 5: to another another kind of a blue song, Little Bluebird.

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Speaker 5: We wrote that one listen to it. The individual reality

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Speaker 5: of the artists, even with the hazing for the song,

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Speaker 5: would take it to the persona that was the inside

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Speaker 5: of their uniqueness. And then by the time we get

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Speaker 5: the Sam and David, we're doing the church thing, which

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Speaker 5: is all we're doing the individual of Sam with the

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Speaker 5: combination of David and I would direct them like a choir.

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Speaker 5: If you listen, I think you you're gonna hear me

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Speaker 5: holler at the very intro, I thank you because I

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Speaker 5: make the mistake and holler. We kept that tape, but

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Speaker 5: that's because I'm on the other side of the mic

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Speaker 5: directing them. But I cannot give them the individuality that

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Speaker 5: brings out the uniqueness of what they were. And it

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Speaker 5: became an identity thing because they were focused on making affairs,

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Speaker 5: and so that's what all of those are. So even

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Speaker 5: before Stevie, the individuality that ultimately ended up being Stevie

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Speaker 5: grew out of some of the influences that he heard

377
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Speaker 5: as a youngster. Because the first record I heard on

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Speaker 5: Steven Fingertips, I didn't hear Stephen One like Stevie Wonder.

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Speaker 5: You all I heard Steven want to like Stevie Wonder

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Speaker 5: because he stopped affecting the uniqueness that was truly him

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Speaker 5: and he magnified it. And then everybody says, to your point,

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Speaker 5: chus start trying to follow that template. But those who

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Speaker 5: followed the temple never got to the strength that Stevie had.

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Speaker 2: I see, I see class for you. When do you

385
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Speaker 2: sort of credit the moment that you started your mission

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Speaker 2: like you're not your come to Jesus moment with music,

387
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Speaker 2: but that this was something that you professionally wanted to pursue.

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Speaker 5: I was, how real should I be with this?

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Speaker 2: Let's super real?

390
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Speaker 5: I was so so poor, from a family of twelve

391
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Speaker 5: with an outdoor toilet in Memphis. I told you who

392
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Speaker 5: my neighbors were, and we all were that way. Maurice

393
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Speaker 5: and I moved from where we worked to a housing

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Speaker 5: project called Lamau Gardens at the same time, which was

395
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Speaker 5: a housemand I just felt that I had to find

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Speaker 5: a way to do this thing. I thought I was

397
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Speaker 5: a singer to do this thing, and I was trying

398
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Speaker 5: to find an identity and didn't know where that was.

399
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Speaker 5: And so here's a kid working at a grocery store,

400
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Speaker 5: just getting ready to graduate from high school from Booker T.

401
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Speaker 5: Washington High School where Maurice White and I graduated in

402
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Speaker 5: nineteen sixty one from and I'm working across the street

403
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Speaker 5: from this movie theater, which was Satellite Records, and I

404
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 5: would go over there because there was a little record

405
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Speaker 5: shop there, and I had no money to buy the records.

406
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Speaker 5: But there was a lady inside there who said if

407
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Speaker 5: they had a recording company and they had a label.

408
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Speaker 5: Asked her about it, so they said we recorded country artists.

409
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Speaker 5: So I said, well, could could you audition me? Would

410
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Speaker 5: you listen to me? She said, well, you can talk

411
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Speaker 5: to my brother, but we just recalld country. So I

412
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Speaker 5: went in there and I talked to Jim Stewart, who

413
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Speaker 5: didn't want to to to listen to me or anything

414
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Speaker 5: such as that. He had a guy working with him

415
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Speaker 5: by the name of Chips Morman. If you google the

416
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Speaker 5: name Chips Moman. He became legendary later on, but he

417
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 5: was the guy that was working with Jim Stewart. Before

418
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Speaker 5: there was no Stacks, it was called Satellite Records. And

419
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Speaker 5: so I got the audition there and froze in the

420
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Speaker 5: room on the audition, but I bought to them. I

421
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 5: got some of my classmates to perform on it for me.

422
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Speaker 5: I got Booker T. Jones to play baritone horn on

423
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Speaker 5: the demo. I got Andrew Love to play tennis sacks

424
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Speaker 5: on the demo. I got William Bail the same background

425
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Speaker 5: along with James Austin on the demo. Willie Bail became yes, Yes,

426
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Speaker 5: and my demo was a song original song. Because he

427
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 5: asked me did I have it? Did I write songs?

428
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Speaker 5: I told him yeah, I didn't have any. He asked me, well,

429
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Speaker 5: did I have a band? I told him yeah, I

430
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Speaker 5: didn't have one, And so he had two artists, Nick

431
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 5: Charles and Charles Hines Country. I convinced him to let

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Speaker 5: me do an audition. I then got the guys together

433
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Speaker 5: to do the audition with me and Froze on the

434
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Speaker 5: demo and flopped. It didn't work for me, but Jim

435
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Speaker 5: Stewart met booker T. Jones, who used to play baritone

436
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 5: on Rufus Thomas record William Bell. He recorded you don't

437
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 5: miss your water to your well run dry, and the

438
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 5: rest is history. I mean, it's so. What it showed

439
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 5: me was that I had a long way to go,

440
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 5: and I started trying to find out who I really

441
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 5: was if I wanted to be this, and I realized

442
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 5: that I couldn't be the artist. I tried a couple

443
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 5: of other records. I recorded for Savoy Records. I was

444
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 5: Little David. I recorded with Willie Mitchell, Kenny Kane. Yes,

445
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 5: on Savoy Records.

446
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know that this avoid subsidiary.

447
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 5: Really, no, no, no, So boy was different. The boy

448
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: wasn't Stax Records.

449
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's for me.

450
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 5: Out hustling, trying to trying to find.

451
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: A pant Okay, I get it.

452
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 5: Okay, that's that's report. But so in trying to do that,

453
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 5: I get with this guy who we we used to

454
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 5: sing on talent shows. It at the Palace Stade on

455
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 5: Beale Street, by the name of Isaac Hayes. So Isaac

456
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 5: and I started talking and said, let's let form a

457
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 5: writing team. Now to come to Jesus. Moment was me

458
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 5: figuring that if I'm gonna get in the music business,

459
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 5: I'd already failed with the audition trying to sing. But

460
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 5: I bought this guy all this amazing talent, and so

461
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 5: I didn't get right in. I got with Isaac and

462
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 5: we formed a label called Genie Records. And there's a

463
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 5: record on a guy by the name of Homer Banks

464
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: called Little Lady of Stone and ain't that a lot

465
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 5: of love? If you find that record, that's a record

466
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 5: that I did with Isaac before Stax Records. Then I

467
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 5: went and Convensium Stuart to get an opportunity as a writer.

468
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 5: I became the first staff writer for Stax Records, given

469
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 5: a six month trial. In the rest of his history,

470
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 5: I started building the writing staff and all of that.

471
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 4: What year was that, I want to.

472
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: Say it's nineteen sixty three, but I could be slightly

473
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 5: slightly off because I was there in nineteen sixty one.

474
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 5: There's a record called The Life I Live On Barbara

475
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 5: Stevenstead that I did with Marvel THOMASLF was before Evan.

476
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 5: Isaac and I really connected, So it was like I

477
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 5: was hustling.

478
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 4: You mentioned Willie Mitchell. What was it like working with him?

479
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 4: At that time?

480
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: Willie Mitchell was was working with a company but of

481
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 5: High Records, that was working with London as a distributor,

482
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 5: and WILLI was not on the inner loop of High Records.

483
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 5: Willie was working with a guy by the name a

484
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 5: white guy by the name of Ray Harris, and they

485
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 5: didn't really realize what Willie Mitchell was. And so I

486
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 5: found a way to convince them to let me make

487
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 5: a record there. And so Willie and I wrote a

488
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 5: song you can google this called practice makes Perfect you'll

489
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 5: see written by Porter Mitchell. That's Willie and I and

490
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 5: I'm Kenny Kane is David Porter so so, but this

491
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 5: is before they allowed Willy to be Willie and Ray

492
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 5: Harris got out of the way and Willy got the

493
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 5: opportunity with some kind of deal. He worked with Joe

494
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 5: Kogie and Nick Pacy and those guys and became the

495
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 5: guy that Royal Studio became and High Records became. The

496
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 5: rest is history with Willie Mitchell. That's how my coming

497
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 5: to Jesus, moment of finding that writing was my in

498
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 5: road defining a.

499
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: Path for this, So was it mostly a trial by

500
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 2: fire in terms of you know, even with me, like

501
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: with my musical education, a lot of my knowledge of

502
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: like the first year that I came to a studio

503
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: was more or less like what does this do? What

504
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: does this do? And you know I didn't. No one

505
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: told me about sixteen bar structure and you know, how

506
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: to find my own sound. So you know, a lot

507
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: of my education of music production just came from like

508
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: the first three years of trying to see what works

509
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: and whatnot. But how do these people know to trust

510
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: you if you don't was expected for you to like

511
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: be accredited songwriters and have experience like writing out charts

512
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: and knowing arrangements and all those things, or you just

513
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: are you singing to the each band members like this

514
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 2: is what you do?

515
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 5: Or yes, all of that, but we didn't do. Isaac

516
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 5: Hayes did not write music. David Border did night No,

517
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 5: he didn't, And so we went through the whole process

518
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 5: of head arrangements. The great artist, the greatest creative that

519
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 5: was Otis Ready. If you were able to be in

520
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 5: a studio with Otis reading during a session, you would

521
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 5: marvel at how he would come up with the baseline,

522
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 5: the horn patterns, the guitar direction for Steve to play

523
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 5: out of. On those records, Isaac and I were motivated

524
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 5: from the church. We realized that motoon had to straightforwth

525
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 5: be with these beautiful melodies on the top of that,

526
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 5: and it was amazing how they did that. But we

527
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,239
Speaker 5: also realized, because we talked strategically about how we were

528
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 5: going to find a path inside of this industry to

529
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 5: do this, we realized that if we want to have

530
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 5: an impact, we had to find an identity. We had

531
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 5: records before we did the Sam and Dave, there are

532
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 5: quite a few of those records, but we were trying

533
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 5: to find the identity way for us to be affected,

534
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 5: and we realized that that opportunity came from the spirituality

535
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 5: of the church on the lower end of things, and

536
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 5: so we started focusing on the bass, drums, guitar lines

537
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 5: rather than the straight four kind of things. And that's

538
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 5: why they became patterns inside of all of the songs

539
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: that we were doing. But those patterns didn't come from

540
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 5: us writing a chart for that came from us giving

541
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 5: the musicians the extra patterns. Hold on I'm coming a

542
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 5: perfect example of that. The drum beat on hold On

543
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 5: I'm Coming did not come about with us just starting

544
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 5: to sing and they started playing No. I went to

545
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 5: Al and said, I remember the record get out on

546
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 5: the Life Woman by leaving play that beat. He played

547
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 5: that beat. I said, Chick, that that's the beat that

548
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 5: we want. Hold On I'm Coming. Isaac had the horn,

549
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 5: just a horn lit on that that lick. It put

550
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 5: that down two or three weeks before we even thought

551
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 5: about hold On I'm Coming. Hold On I'm Coming came

552
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 5: one night late we were We left a club after

553
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 5: we were jamming, went to the studio by two thirty night.

554
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: I went to the restroom. Isaac was trying to get

555
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 5: me the hurry out of the restroom. I said, hold

556
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 5: On I'm coming then, and I said God, it came

557
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 5: out of the room. Twenty minutes later we wrote hold

558
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 5: On I'm Coming. The drum pattern we did all.

559
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 4: That's the movie story. That's the God's true.

560
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: It is the deal.

561
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: I've already seen that acted out in a whole.

562
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 5: Isaac records happen because of the inner spirits inside of

563
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: the creative juices that came, not from somebody doing sitting

564
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 5: down and write a charge from it, but somebody giving

565
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 5: the people the answers or where the songs were in

566
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 5: the individuality was only magnified through that.

567
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: Okay, then I gotta ask you this question. Okay, you

568
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: guys have this like ten minute song on presenting Isaac

569
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: Hay's called I Want to Make Love to You, and

570
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: it is one of the most ambitious arrangements I've ever heard.

571
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: It's like part jazz, part blues, part serious soul, part comedy.

572
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: But there's so many parts to this song. So if

573
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: it's not notated, like how for these like extravagant arrangements

574
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: that you guys are doing, because it's not just like

575
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: here's the A part, here's the B part, here's the

576
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: A part, here's the B part, here's the coda. Like

577
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: you guys are writing these like extravagant arrangements, Like how

578
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: are they able to maintain that memory of what to

579
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: do if you guys aren't notating that stuff?

580
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 5: Well, first place I did, I didn't produce Presenting Isaac Hayes. Okay, right,

581
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: but let me tell you because Isaac and I worked

582
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 5: for from the core, I can tell you how the

583
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 5: things that the core foundation of all of the records

584
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 5: was inside of the base patterns. Now there was chance

585
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 5: done on the up end of the chante. Isaac used

586
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 5: and huns. We'd used al Warren Free. I mean we

587
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 5: used cats to put the orchestration on the top. But

588
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 5: that's also coming out of Isaac's head. That's not some guy.

589
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 5: He given the track to it said okay, create the parts.

590
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 5: That's not how that happened. But because there was such

591
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 5: an authenticity of remembering things, all of the RECs from

592
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 5: hold on them coming to soul man, you don't know

593
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 5: those are things that of course, the records was for

594
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 5: two minutes forty seconds long. Your point is, well, how

595
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 5: are you gonna do this on a long, long, long

596
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 5: lung record. Well, on a long, long, long lung record.

597
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 5: If you were inside of the stacks room and you know,

598
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 5: everybody's standing up looking at Isaac and isa is directing

599
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 5: and cueing on the parts, you guys are write down

600
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 5: four balls here, eight balls here, and the cats would

601
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 5: know if you hold up his hand, it's the next

602
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: it's the next pense, it's the next pats of whatever

603
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 5: was going to be. So I wasn't in the room

604
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 5: when he was doing it, but I'm sure that the

605
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 5: same kind of processes that I did on The Victim

606
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 5: of the Joke AB but what you rights the same

607
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 5: thing because that's what I did.

608
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: So what are al Bell's basic thoughts when you guys

609
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm going back to Stacks in the sixties,

610
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: but I'm just curious, like, when this turns in the

611
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: Enterprise and you guys are making serious albums, what are

612
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: our Bell's thoughts when some of these album cuts are

613
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: seven minutes, thirteen minutes, twenty two minutes.

614
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 4: Not right friendly at all.

615
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: That's how well I know that the age of FM

616
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: radio was sort of like we play longer cuts when

617
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: I at least you know, the first five years of

618
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: this seventies. But I mean, you guys were almost like

619
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: the anti Moodtown, because I know Motown's whole thing was

620
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: like has to be three minutes and thirty seconds and

621
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: easily digestible. And so was that by design or but.

622
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 5: That is that is an amazing question because the truth

623
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 5: needs to be told. Isaac was the first to do

624
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: the extended creative of the song the very first. The

625
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: way that happened was Al bail now was being in

626
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 5: control because Stacks all of the masters that Stax had

627
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 5: recorded Atlantic got those because Jim Stood had signed one

628
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 5: of those funny contracts and didn't realize they'd given the

629
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 5: catalog away. Then Albert l got into the power control

630
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 5: of the company and ultimately end up owning the company.

631
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 5: And so what al did was in order for us

632
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: to get back in the move in a competitior Way said, listen,

633
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 5: we got to create product and get an abundant of

634
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: product to get out there. He encouraged Easac to do

635
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 5: the album. He encouraged Easa going, Isaac said, because we

636
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 5: were already in the power position. Isaac said, if I'm

637
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 5: gonna do it, I gotta do what I feel I

638
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 5: want to do. El had no idea that isa was

639
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: gonna take it there because Isaac always was influenced by

640
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 5: jazz cats. I mean he always, but that wasn't not

641
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 5: the kind of records that we were doing. So when

642
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 5: he'd have the freedom to do it the way he

643
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 5: wanted to do it, we used to go to the

644
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 5: club called Club La Run. We would go there and

645
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 5: just jam before we'd go back to the studio. One

646
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 5: night we were jamming and singing some stuff at the

647
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 5: club to Run. When something is wrong with My Baby

648
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 5: and some of the other songs that we had written

649
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 5: and that they were popular songs we singing, and Isaac

650
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 5: went into a vibe with the substained thing on the

651
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 5: hammonbe three organ that was there and start talking and

652
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 5: he would start talking and the message was on a

653
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 5: song by Glenn Cammell called by the time I get

654
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 5: to Phoenix and Isaac started talking with me standing up

655
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 5: on the stage with him and I knowing what the

656
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 5: heck he's doing, and him start and they were getting

657
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 5: in to listen to him, and he just start making

658
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 5: it longer and longer, and it case he didn't have

659
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 5: it hidden out. It came to him in the natural

660
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 5: way that these lines I'm telling you, and the horn

661
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 5: Patterson came in and he talked the whole thing out

662
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 5: and hit By the time I get the Phoenix with

663
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: the bat three loud and whatever, and the cast was

664
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 5: just trying to follow him, which they did. And by

665
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 5: the time he got the opportunity to record and told

666
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 5: alba Al on a second because presiding Heasac Hayes album

667
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 5: did not really work, so on the second he told

668
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 5: me to do it again. Honestly, I want to really do

669
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 5: it the way I want to do it, and that's

670
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 5: why there are four tunes on that album. And the

671
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 5: first motivation was that Thience thing that we did at

672
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 5: the club I run and that was what nineteen minutes

673
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 5: long as something.

674
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: Would tape ever run out? Would tape run out at all?

675
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 5: Well, that didn't know matter, but you know, Isaac would

676
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 5: we would have been in the studio jam and and

677
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 5: we in it with a lot of tracks that would

678
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 5: then and writing songs off later on, just by the

679
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 5: extended part that we didn't use on a record. So

680
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 5: so cats would know that that. And by the time

681
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 5: I get the Phoenix case that had to be a

682
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 5: new real to tape. Guests would know that he was

683
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 5: going to do extended verse. They just did not know

684
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 5: it was going to be that long. So I don't know.

685
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 5: I wasn't in the room on Phoenix, but I can

686
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 5: tell you.

687
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: So can you explain, especially like with with the tension

688
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: that's happening in the mid to late sixties, especially in

689
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: the civil rights movement, how was it socially, especially with

690
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: you know cats like uh, you know, Donald Duck Dunn,

691
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: Steve Cropper, like because you know the sound of stacks

692
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 2: even though it's gut bunket soul, gut bucket funk like this.

693
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: This is an integrated, intersectional kind of organization with men

694
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: and women, black and white, that sort of thing. So

695
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: how easy was it now navigating especially with sort of

696
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: I guess culminating to King's assassination like in Memphis? What

697
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: is the social atmosphere of these white musicians and black

698
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: musicians playing together?

699
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 5: Like what's a work dinner look like inside the street?

700
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 5: Well to a question, if I think I understand correct,

701
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 5: this is this is the interesting thing about that period.

702
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 5: Racism was still rapid during that period, it was still there,

703
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 5: but because Stewart was smart enough to see that the

704
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 5: black contraditional talents were far exceeding where Steve was and

705
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: dunk Walls. But these were casts that were able to integrate,

706
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 5: for lack of a better word, into the Bible what

707
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 5: we were doing, because they were able to listen to

708
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 5: where we were coming from. And it was it was

709
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: showed that the possibility of seriously making some money until

710
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 5: they were there was a willingness to follow the lead

711
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 5: of the black towns. And when I say say that,

712
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 5: when you could see there's Booker T. Jones in that

713
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 5: in the combination of talent, we called it the Big Six.

714
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 5: That was Al Jackson Junior in that combination of talent.

715
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 5: That was Isaac Hayes in a combination of talents. That

716
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 5: was David Porter in the cumination of talents. And here

717
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 5: is Steve and Duck. And the leading parts was either

718
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 5: coming from Booker or from Isaac, or from I or

719
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 5: from l as relates to where a lot of the

720
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 5: originality come from the abilities to a depth and to

721
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 5: be affecting with it was coming out of the rhythmic

722
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 5: treaties that Cropper would bring to many of the songs,

723
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 5: and Duck would was amazing at remembery and containing the

724
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 5: patterns and giving you the right kund of imagy for that.

725
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: Like what about once y'all left the studio, Because like

726
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: you said, y'all were the leaders in the individualities, but

727
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: y'all couldn't eat in the same places, stay in the

728
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 3: same places, and that.

729
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 5: That is so so true, And then we didn't make

730
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 5: a norm of that. They would go to a place

731
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 5: called the Four Way Green with us, which was a

732
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 5: black restaurant on the Mississippi Walker. And when we wanted

733
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 5: to really eat together, we would go to the Four

734
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 5: Way Grill, and in the Four Way Grill, if you

735
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 5: read the history of it, that was also the place

736
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 5: where doctor King would go. That's also a place where

737
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 5: Jesse Jackson would go. At the front of the four

738
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: Way is the door. People would come in from the street,

739
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 5: but they had a back entrance at the back of

740
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 5: the door. James Brown and a lot of folk we

741
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 5: would go in the back door there and we would

742
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 5: eat some of the best soul for which you ever

743
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 5: want to have. But that was a place when we

744
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 5: would do I was a vocalist Boogleton MG's on the

745
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 5: road playing the College Circuit. To your point, we'd get

746
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 5: in the car. We didn't this is booker ten MG's well,

747
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 5: we do sessions with We worked at the College Circum.

748
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 5: On the weekend, we'd get in the car and go

749
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 5: play gigs and we had a lot of This is

750
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 5: where we could not get in the hotel in a

751
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 5: in a real comfortable kind of way. We'd go and

752
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 5: play the gig on the College State, come back and

753
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: be in the studio on Monday. So it wasn't it

754
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 5: wasn't kind of thing where you'd see a lot of

755
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 5: let's go out and hang out together. There were black

756
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 5: clubs and they were white clubs, and that was still

757
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 5: going on in Memphis by the time you went into

758
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 5: the Stax rooms to do the work. It was a

759
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 5: unity there, but it was also a willingness to follow

760
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 5: the lead of the black talents who was really making

761
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 5: the thing. And that's why the magic came from an

762
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 5: Otis Redding, who showed everybody what all of that meant

763
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 5: what I just said, because there was no one who

764
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 5: could do it to the degree that Otis could do it.

765
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: Did you personally feel some sort of way when like

766
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: your sound and your formula are being used by other

767
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: Memphis Like in other words, like if you were to

768
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 2: if anyone were to listen to like Let's Stay Together, Yeah,

769
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: you know, the sound of the brass band in the

770
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 2: front and the basic gut bucket groove of that song.

771
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: You know, someone to say to me like, oh, that's

772
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: probably Stax Records or something like that. And you know,

773
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: even though you guys are in proximity of each other

774
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: in terms of mileage, like I'm certain that Willie and

775
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: his organization were way different. Might be like one or

776
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 2: two musicians that are the same. Are you guys feeling

777
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: some sort of way that, like the sound that you

778
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: helped make the Blueprint Architects is sort of now being

779
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: even outside of Memphis, because I'm certain that you know,

780
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: there's the Cats and Muscle Souls are also I'm thinking

781
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: that they too, are you know, Memphis based and whatnot, Like,

782
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: especially with the work they were doing with the Refit like,

783
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 2: did you feel some sort of way when your sound

784
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: is sort of like identified with that whole region but

785
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: some of those things that you had nothing to do with,

786
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: it just sounds like you did.

787
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: Well. The beautiful thing about it is we have so

788
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 5: many artists that we have to use other rooms to

789
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 5: do that. The reason that Muscle showed a sound became

790
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 5: revered as it did was because we sent so many

791
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 5: arts this there so many many artists there.

792
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 2: How far was Muscle Souls from Memphis?

793
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe a little bit more than to our drive?

794
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean, I.

795
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 5: Don't know if you're familiar with the album that I

796
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 5: did that that has the victim of the joke, the

797
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 5: song the Masquerade is over.

798
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: Wait time out all right?

799
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: Okay, are you really asking us right now? We know

800
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 2: I'm afraid the Masquerade is over.

801
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 5: But but but that quest that's a huge kind of

802
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 5: things you mentioned earlier about hair stuff. That's one of

803
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 5: those kind of things. I had a mic going around

804
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 5: room with the head says going in the home and

805
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 5: lincense to catch the play. But but but that's also

806
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 5: one of the dumbest mistakes I made because the second

807
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 5: half of it, which has nothing at all to do

808
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 5: with the original song which I was given the head

809
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 5: arranged to and that's where all the samples came from.

810
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 5: Do you know how many millions of dollars I gave

811
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 5: away with that? All of those those how many that's

812
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 5: no story. But but but so we're going.

813
00:42:59,200 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: To ask about that too.

814
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 5: But but but but uh, but muscle shows was so

815
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 5: many ars, Johnny Taylor of the Staple Singers color the

816
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 5: emotions so many that we we went to the rooman

817
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 5: cut what Willie was doing over a high that's Andrew

818
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 5: Love and Wayne Jackson. The horn section. A lot of

819
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 5: the patterns, and I can show you some patterns that

820
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 5: the guys already forgot that we had already did the

821
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 5: patterns on the track over there, and they got into

822
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 5: whatever on the al track. And there's a line that

823
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: we did on this man, what the heck? You so?

824
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 5: But but we were, we were so so unified and

825
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 5: and the magic that was happening out of Memphis. There

826
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 5: was no animosity or anger toward what WILLI was doing,

827
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 5: nor was that coming from really what we were doing.

828
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 5: We were just simply happy that all of the stuff

829
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 5: was connected, and then that there was magic with our Green.

830
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 5: The magic with our Green was reminiscent of the magic

831
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 5: that we felt when we lost over this ring. So

832
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 5: there was a joe and the happiness. And then when

833
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 5: he Willie come up with a record been great, like

834
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 5: I can't stand the rain, I mean just great, great, great,

835
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 5: great music. So there was there was no it was

836
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 5: in a lot. Some of the players were the same.

837
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,959
Speaker 5: It was that kind of spirit in Memphis during that time.

838
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: At any point, was Al Green ever going to go

839
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: to your direction to stacks at any point or just

840
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: he immediately went to high.

841
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 5: No, No, WILLI wi WILLI discovered L.

842
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: But did you know about him before Willie discovered him?

843
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 5: No? No, I don't think it was nobody. No, that

844
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 5: was Willie. Willie. WILLI heard something in him and and

845
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 5: took him to a space. L didn't believe he was.

846
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 5: Al was a hard singer. Willie forced him to find

847
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 5: the identity thing that I was talking about. WILLI forced

848
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 5: l to find that thing. That thing for.

849
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 4: The way he's singing on his first album is back

850
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 4: up Train Yes into the.

851
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 5: Vamp of love and Happiness, and you'll see that's where

852
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 5: Al really is really control how Al found himself. And

853
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 5: then when Al really found himself, then Air magnified the

854
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 5: persona of what that should be. And that's why some

855
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 5: of those vocals that he would do on those songs

856
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 5: were just crazy because he was having so much fun

857
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 5: in discovering new nonsense inside of what he was doing

858
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 5: that was even fresher than he even imagined. I would imagine.

859
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 5: He just he became unbelievable. The same thing was happening

860
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 5: with Otis as well, Johnny Taylor as well.

861
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: Can you tell me or recall the experience of hearing

862
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: what happened to Otis Redding and the original barcas well.

863
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 5: Let me first first said this, because this is this

864
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 5: is this is an interesting story. When Otis came to

865
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 5: Memphis to record on the Doctor the Bay my office

866
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 5: at the Stacks Building. The door to the office was

867
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 5: on the street, because by then we had bought the

868
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 5: other location. There was a cafe next door to the theater,

869
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 5: and there was some other things on the other side,

870
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 5: and there was a grocery store on the other side.

871
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 5: We had bought all of that and converted that into

872
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 5: part of the space. Otis came into the room in

873
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 5: my office. He said, I want you to hear a

874
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 5: song and tell me what you think about it, because

875
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 5: he you know, he there was a miser respect there.

876
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 5: So he came and he sang with an acoustic guitar, openstright, acoustic,

877
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 5: and he sang Sitting on the Dock of the Bay

878
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 5: to me the whole song, and he said, what you think.

879
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 5: I said, well, I think you are to make the

880
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 5: first verse the last verse, and the last verse the

881
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 5: first verse, because the story says so better than he

882
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 5: really thinks he is. He went into the studio and

883
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 5: recorded Sitting on the Doctor of the Bay. Now it

884
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 5: was not complete because he had a plane to catch,

885
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 5: and he then left Memphis, got on did his flight.

886
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 5: I was, as I mentioned the vocals book of tenmg's

887
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 5: That weekend we flew to Ohio and played a cottage

888
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 5: up there in n OHI up there. So we had

889
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 5: finished the gig, were in the airport. I get a

890
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 5: call from my wife at the time. I get a

891
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 5: call saying that first said that Otis Ready was in

892
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 5: an airplane crash. And I said, I couldn't believe. I said, no,

893
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 5: what do you? And I didn't believe it, and she

894
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 5: reinforced it in a real emotional way to me. And

895
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 5: I told the guys that I was told. When I

896
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 5: told the guys that, and we were getting ready to

897
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 5: catch a plane to come back to Memphis when we

898
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 5: found out. So we were coming from a gig Otis

899
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 5: was going they were going to another gig. In the

900
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 5: devastation of finding out about that was when we were

901
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 5: on another gig. Matter of fact, it's in I think

902
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 5: I want to say it say Booker T's book. If

903
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 5: you read Booker talks about it as well, that's that's

904
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 5: that's when that was found out.

905
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: Did you did you know James Alexander, Well, uh, the

906
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 2: basis of the bar kays, Well.

907
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 5: Then you don't know the story about how the record

908
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 5: cut came about. They had a record, a track that

909
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 5: they had and it was just a track. Isaac and

910
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 5: I went into the room. It was a track. Jim

911
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 5: Stood was standing over there listening to it. Didn't know

912
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 5: what they what it was. Then called it they was.

913
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 5: They played the track for us. Isaac Hayes came up

914
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 5: with the title soul Finger. I said, let's put some

915
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 5: kids on the record. I went outside and got twenty

916
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 5: five or thirty kids. Bought him in the room, got

917
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 5: two cases of coke, asked James, James Alexander, when you

918
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 5: interviewed him about this story, got two cases of coke,

919
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 5: gave him the Coca cone. I directed them like a choir.

920
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 5: Every time I raised my hand and do this, you

921
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 5: scream soul finger. And then when I do this, say

922
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 5: so and and so. Isaac gave the title soul thing

923
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 5: for the record. I put the kids on it. That's

924
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 5: that's the record. So James Alexander definitely knows. David Porter

925
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 5: and Isaac Cay's definitely does that the getting jigging record.

926
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 5: But no, no, no no, I did on the barcades,

927
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 5: gave them. I did a head range, gave them fifty

928
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 5: percent of the song. But I came up with it.

929
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 5: Put the kids the same thing again. I got kiss

930
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 5: off the street. I directed him like a que and

931
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 5: had him singing.

932
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 2: No, no, no, and did the track of the Barcades

933
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: singing dance right.

934
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 5: The singing dance so real close to James.

935
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: I've always been curious and you know he's he's definitely,

936
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: he's definitely like one of our buckets, bucket list guests

937
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: that we want to get. Just let me know, oh

938
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 2: please that that's him and Jazzy fake like James.

939
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 5: Lay on the floor in the studio if.

940
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: Really yeah, do you know like how he was able

941
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: to bounce back and start the group all over again,

942
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 2: and just how he felt because I believe the story

943
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 2: is that I don't know if it was a coin

944
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: flippant or not. The thing was that only a certain

945
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: amount of people could fit on the plane. I believe

946
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: the legend is that James Alexander is like, look, I'll

947
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: just catch a commercial flight and him.

948
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 5: And Carl did that another not not not Carl Kunaham,

949
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 5: but another car. Carl Siums did that cause Carl sum

950
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 5: was going to go with it, and James and Carlsiums

951
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 5: did that. That's that's true, Okay, it was ah something

952
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 5: like that, whatever the number sixs was. But James and

953
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,479
Speaker 5: Carl couldn't get on it, and James took a commercial flight.

954
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 5: That's true. James was the one that was asked to go,

955
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 5: and because the Elma didn't want to, she wasn't the

956
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 5: most able to do it. James was the one that

957
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 5: went to identifi Otist.

958
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 2: I know that was such a devastating loss to the label.

959
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Like how are you guys, especially with the transition of

960
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 2: you know, moving into the seventies and whatnot, can you

961
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: explain just the feeling at the time, like especially post

962
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: King by the time the seventies comes, Like what are

963
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 2: you feeling in terms of like where music is or

964
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: where STAX is as an organization, to really.

965
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 5: Appreciate the energy that Otis brought to our environment. Otis

966
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 5: was a driver for another guy that was being recorded

967
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 5: at the time. Otis came in as his driver. Otis

968
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 5: pleaded with Al Jackson's junior to would someone take a

969
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 5: listen to him? Sing? Al told Steve give if you

970
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 5: got a minute, man, people that already was leaving and

971
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 5: already left, would you take a listen to this guy?

972
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 5: He just wanted somebody to listen to him. Otis Redding

973
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 5: saying these arms of mind with Steve cropper who is

974
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 5: not a piano player, playing tribuus on the piano, and

975
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 5: the rest is history for Otis. Ready then, because no

976
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 5: one understood Oldis better than Otis, because Otis was a

977
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 5: huge fan of Little Richard. If you listen to the

978
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 5: B side of These Arms of Mine, you're gonna think

979
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 5: it's Little Richard because that's where Otis was. But the

980
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 5: These Arms of Mine song Otis showed where he was,

981
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 5: and that was the thing that resonated inside of that room.

982
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 5: And no one could do that but Otis, and Otis

983
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 5: was given the lead way to show where that came from.

984
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 5: And then Otis was the one that started really magnifying

985
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 5: the head Arrangers kind of vibe or what ultam became

986
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 5: the cornerstone of everything we did there. So the loss

987
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 5: of Otis created a kind of emotional kind of devastation

988
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 5: to all of us that it's no way to explain

989
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 5: the level of it, because then we began to feel

990
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 5: what could have been with the magic that was coming

991
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 5: from this man. I mean, he would go in the

992
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 5: studio in this like fastest get up, would be able

993
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 5: to come up with all these parts and these tracks

994
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,439
Speaker 5: and just do them and then go on the mic

995
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 5: and make up the song on the mic. That's me

996
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 5: saying homedy with him.

997
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you about that.

998
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, but that's that's im. I didn't know when

999
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 5: it comes, he says, I said this when you're gonna

1000
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 5: come in, he said, you feel it, And it was like,

1001
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,479
Speaker 5: but that's the magic of this this god.

1002
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: The thing is that Otis Redding was twenty seven when

1003
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 2: he died. Was it that typical for during the time

1004
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,720
Speaker 2: that you guys have between the age of what twenty

1005
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 2: he came to you, twenty three or twenty four?

1006
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 5: I don't, I can't.

1007
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: You could be right, yeah, twenty three, twenty four.

1008
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 5: Twinters, but I can't remember.

1009
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 2: Like, were you guys saying to yourselves back then, like

1010
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: this guy has a way older voice than what his

1011
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: age allows. Or was it just the stress of living

1012
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: in that time just brought that age and that experience

1013
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: on your typical singer back then.

1014
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 5: When you listen to the B side of as mentioned,

1015
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 5: of these ums of mine and you hear Otis there,

1016
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 5: and you listen to what Otis was doing, Otis was

1017
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 5: so brilliant as far as seeming in the individuality that

1018
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 5: magnified with people, so you could talk to Otis and yeah,

1019
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 5: how you doing. Everything's fine? Then he said you can't,

1020
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 5: you know, I mean all of this was with a

1021
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 5: purpose aim at locking you in to the persona that

1022
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 5: was Otis Ready. There was no Otis didn't talk like that. Job.

1023
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 5: So that was a character you better believe it was.

1024
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 5: But he also perfected it in such a way that

1025
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 5: the uniqueness of him because he would stumble up on

1026
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 5: other things that he would do, because and he's making

1027
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 5: up things on the microphone as well. It's just.

1028
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 2: That was a character, even on tramp where he's like talking.

1029
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 5: On country like, bro's real what I'm telling you? This

1030
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 5: man was brilliant and and and the Brians were manifested

1031
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 5: in some of the patterns that the guests were able

1032
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 5: to play, which was motivating Isaac and I to get

1033
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 5: better with our patterns I Thank You. The record on

1034
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 5: I Thank You was motivated out of Otis reading I

1035
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 5: went there at Tennessee Walker horses on the drums. Now,

1036
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 5: just the magic of Otis Ready and seeing what he

1037
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 5: would do in the room was the catalyst for so

1038
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 5: much of what happened through all of us. And and

1039
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 5: so us trying to find our traction to get into

1040
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 5: the ballpark. Of that was to your point about a

1041
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 5: little bit of the decline before people were getting to

1042
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 5: find their way. That was part of it. We had

1043
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 5: lost the magic marker for for what we could ultimately

1044
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 5: be when we lost that guy.

1045
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: Who do you think he was trying to emulate since

1046
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: that wasn't his natural voice?

1047
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 5: Otis ready When I say that individuality was the cornerstone

1048
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 5: of the magic of what was happening in the stacks,

1049
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 5: I'm saying that that became the signature thought for everybody

1050
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 5: on every record. William Bale his records in the Sweetness,

1051
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 5: said Booker, and William wrote and the songs everybody loves

1052
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 5: one of those songs, that's William going into a character

1053
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 5: that's one of my best buddies to this day. That's

1054
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 5: also inside of the character of where he know his

1055
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 5: slot was.

1056
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, what you're saying is people there were alter egos

1057
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 3: before there were Sasha fears. That's what you're saying.

1058
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm learning that right now because I

1059
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: just found an interview with Bobby Woomeck talking about Slive recording.

1060
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 2: There's a ride going on, you know, one of the

1061
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: questions I had about Sly was like, well, how come.

1062
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: The voice of slies on that record.

1063
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: Where he's like clear as day on his record, and

1064
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: Bobby was just like, man, Sly's an actor. He was

1065
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: just fucking around, And I see now, like, I don't know,

1066
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 2: it's just that to me, just that voice is so seasoned,

1067
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: like it just and again, like I heard that voice

1068
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 2: when I was ten, so I just thought, that's like

1069
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 2: my grandfather's voice. So when I found out he was,

1070
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: you know, I'm thinking twenty seven, I'm thinking, you know,

1071
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 2: like Chris Brown's voice or bad era Michael Jackson voice

1072
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: like sounds like young, but he just sounds so old

1073
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 2: and seasoned. I just thought that was unusual.

1074
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 5: I came from a period where people who looked like

1075
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 5: me in order to connect in a market that didn't

1076
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 5: handle all the access of internet all those kinds of things,

1077
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 5: had to find a way to make the possibilities of

1078
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 5: that more real. And the best way to do that,

1079
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 5: based on the evidence of time, was to find the

1080
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 5: individualalitor created an s's of weakness for you, And inside

1081
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 5: of that kind of thought process was the desire to

1082
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 5: find that. And in many instances when people would find that,

1083
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 5: they would find themselves and they would know where that

1084
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 5: pocket was. Bobby Womack Ship's moment left Stax Records when

1085
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 5: Stacks went Satellite turned into Stax and Ships went to

1086
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 5: a place called American Studios. And because Bobby couldn't get

1087
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 5: into Stax Records, where did he go? In Memphis, Tennessee?

1088
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 5: Bobby went to American Studios. And if you go by

1089
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 5: the early music of Bobby Womack, you'll find out that

1090
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 5: Bobby Womack was in Memphis, Tennessee recording over there, Danny

1091
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 5: Thomas and Chelsea at Chips Woman Studio. Check it out.

1092
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 5: And so look when we did gigs, and I'll say this,

1093
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 5: and when we did gigs on the college circuit, and

1094
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 5: we'd go and do these gigs. Some of these white

1095
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 5: colleges would have two acts performing. Some of these appearances

1096
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 5: were book of tnmg's on one end of the floor.

1097
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 5: Because they didn't know that Booker had a vocalist, which

1098
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 5: was me. They would hire another group to sing and perform.

1099
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 5: Who did they have one of those gigs and this

1100
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 5: was a guy became a buddy of mine. They hired

1101
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 5: the Osen Brothers, who was playing good time for the

1102
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 5: brothers in these college dates, Jimmy Henry, who came to

1103
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 5: Memphis with me to try to get some gigs and

1104
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,479
Speaker 5: sessions with me in Stat's records, Jimmy Henrix, So all

1105
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 5: of this, all of this speaks to people understanding that

1106
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 5: they had to find an individual that gave them an

1107
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 5: end to where they wanted to go. Jimmy is another

1108
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 5: essence and example of that because he was a bad mother,

1109
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 5: shit your mouth playing bro. But when he got when

1110
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 5: he got time for him to find him, he knew

1111
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 5: how to integrate those nuances that became the rock thing

1112
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 5: and going to that whole look. He knew how to

1113
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 5: do that and he did it to the bone.

1114
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 2: So you're basically saying that rap music isn't the only

1115
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 2: genre in which on one's everyday voice out sewing Carter.

1116
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: And jay Z is you have to be a character.

1117
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: I just thought that was hip.

1118
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 3: Hop, But the land of make Believe didn't start with

1119
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 3: hip hop.

1120
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 5: All nuances of what, in my opinion, many of those

1121
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 5: talents got to where they got to was realizing that

1122
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 5: James Brown seemed like sound like James Brown, and Teddy

1123
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 5: Pendergrass sounded like Teddy Pendergrass and somewhere in between that

1124
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 5: sly Stones sound like sly and somewhere in between that

1125
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 5: you go, you can go down the line. And the

1126
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 5: magic habit when people perfected the essences of who they

1127
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 5: were with the purity of an emotional connecting way to

1128
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 5: an audience, and that was where the magic was. And

1129
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 5: so I think that when you found all these records

1130
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 5: happening on the Tonic and Cat's trying to find a

1131
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 5: way to treat their boys to make themselves sound whatever

1132
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 5: they're doing, they got that undernose to them possible of

1133
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 5: the influences that came through their grandmama, the uncle or whatever,

1134
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 5: talking about how they like I like that James Brown.

1135
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 5: I was like, why y'all doing that kind of stuff?

1136
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 5: And then they found a way to make it work

1137
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 5: for them, and they make it work to the Hill

1138
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 5: and so Nas and these other kids. And they told

1139
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 5: me that that that you mentioned who shot you which

1140
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 5: which which my guy Bigger did do. But they told

1141
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 5: me biggest audition tape was a song of mine and

1142
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 5: writing I.

1143
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: Forget Lyone Alley Yeah came.

1144
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 5: To Memphis to interview me and he told me that

1145
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 5: I said, I, what are you talking, He said, no,

1146
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 5: his audition was I never heard that, and so so

1147
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 5: by the time I unt I heard it was who

1148
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 5: shot you? So But the point I'm just saying, they

1149
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 5: were looking for for ways to find the individuality that

1150
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 5: was uniquely them and they've perfected. So when I listened

1151
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 5: to Biggie and hear where he was coming from, and

1152
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 5: then I listened to Kendrick to say what I'm saying,

1153
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 5: this is because they all found a way to find

1154
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 5: the magic within the said you mentioned day. They all

1155
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 5: find a way to do that. Those who become effected

1156
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 5: with it. As soon as they get the pocket of money,

1157
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 5: they moved to the heels. But it's wrong with that,

1158
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,919
Speaker 5: and not I'm wrong with that, but that's real.

1159
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 2: Well, well, let's Steve ask this question because I'm sorry.

1160
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 6: I forgot my question.

1161
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 7: The story you mentioned earlier about sitting on the dock

1162
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 7: of the bay that it was unfinished. Did you oversee

1163
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 7: the finishing of that song or how did that get finished?

1164
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 5: No, proper did that, Steve did that?

1165
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 6: So what had to be recorded after his accident.

1166
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 5: Wasn't in the session. You know, all this is that

1167
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 5: sing the song to me when he came to my office,

1168
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 5: and then I just gave him that that suggestion. Then

1169
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 5: he went in the studio and recorded. You know, I

1170
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 5: don't know to what degree it was. It was not finished.

1171
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 5: I really don't.

1172
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 7: All right, Well, I have a follow up question then

1173
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 7: about Hendrix. Why didn't Stacks sign Hendrix? Or I'm trying

1174
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 7: to imagine Jimmy Hendrix as a Stacks artist or what

1175
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 7: that would be like.

1176
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 6: Was there any talk guy?

1177
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 5: You know, he wasn't Jimmy Hendrix at the time. He

1178
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 5: was trying to get on successions. There was no essence

1179
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 5: of of of Jimmy being Jimmy at the time, gotcha, Yeah, yeah,

1180
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 5: But and then then Steve had a lock on the studio.

1181
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 5: Being honest with you, he wasn't easy to get get

1182
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 5: in some sessions, you know, and he just came to

1183
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 5: see if he could.

1184
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: How many studios were in total? Rooms?

1185
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 5: Well, there eventually became three rooms in there, A B,

1186
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 5: and C, but it was a while before we got B.

1187
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 5: It was it was a while before we got that.

1188
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: So what's scheduling like?

1189
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 5: It was crazy. We ended up, as I mentioned before,

1190
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 5: having it to do bookings that wasn't a place in

1191
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 5: muscle shows.

1192
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 2: Muscle Okay, I get it now.

1193
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 5: Jackson, Mississippi. We did some bookings, you know, we ended

1194
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 5: up because they had so many acts to do.

1195
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 2: Was Nashville ever an option? Like was did Nashville have

1196
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: any potential of having flavor?

1197
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1198
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 6: As about that?

1199
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 2: Or nah?

1200
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: No?

1201
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 4: So do you feel that it's funny?

1202
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know you know about the gout to

1203
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 3: ask about the Black Music Museum Becau's only one black

1204
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 3: music museum in the country, and it's in Nashville. But

1205
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 3: it's it's it's supposed to feel like a situation where

1206
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 3: to make folks come. Do you feel like that or

1207
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 3: do you feel like that it should be it should

1208
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 3: be a Memphis.

1209
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 5: It should have been Memphis. But but honestly, Henry Hicks Uh,

1210
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 5: the guy who came to message before was built, and

1211
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 5: we met on all that stuff, and I supported him

1212
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 5: in the effort because it's difficult for me to believe

1213
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 5: it actually happened in Nashville. If you know Nashville, believe that.

1214
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 5: But he pulled it off mm hmm, and he got Uh.

1215
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 5: He honored Patty Leabell, Teddy Rodder, Kirk Franklin and myself

1216
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 5: as a program that we did there several years ago

1217
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 5: as he was bringing note the ride and disability to it,

1218
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 5: he would bring several artists that talk about Nashville or whatever,

1219
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 5: and that's and that was part of the surprise for

1220
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 5: me to see that he was a brother that was

1221
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 5: really believing he was gonna pull it together and he did.

1222
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah him and quite a few people shouts at

1223
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 3: Deanna Williams too, and Big John Platt is a nice

1224
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: community of folks that are involved in Yeah, that play

1225
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 3: special and where it's placed, like right in downtown in

1226
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 3: the face of like the opre it's like you we

1227
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 3: here right.

1228
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I give I give I give those guys

1229
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 5: credit for pulling off something that one I found a

1230
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 5: difficult believe that would ever be, but also the level

1231
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 5: of it being that that it is. I mean, it's beautiful.

1232
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 4: I want to ask you, David about you You talk

1233
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 4: about characters and you know, the singers and everybody wanted

1234
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 4: to be individual. Rufus Thomas, man, what was what was

1235
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 4: he like? I thought I loved him. I mean, I

1236
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 4: watch Stacks was all I saw him on. But yeah,

1237
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 4: what was he like?

1238
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 2: Just as an.

1239
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 5: Read it book, if you told Rufus Thomas that he

1240
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 5: wasn't an artist. He'd cut you out. Rufus knew that

1241
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 5: he could go into a song that really magnified marketability

1242
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,479
Speaker 5: for himself. If you try to get in the saying

1243
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 5: saying he was not what you think in terms of that.

1244
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 5: But when he was saying one of his original compositions,

1245
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 5: he could sing say because no one could do it

1246
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 5: better than he could, and he could sell it in

1247
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 5: such a way that that was it was magic. He was.

1248
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 5: He was extremely confident man. He was up in age

1249
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 5: when he started recording. He was, but he was extremely confident,

1250
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 5: and he also felt that he wanted to be able

1251
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 5: to compete with Sam Dave or ODIs or whoever was

1252
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 5: on the stage. So he was he found a way

1253
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 5: to get outfits even though he wasn't getting paid the

1254
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 5: kind of money the others were getting paid on the gigs.

1255
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 5: But you can tell that because every time he hit

1256
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 5: the stage, he'd be shoppings, sharp could beat and when

1257
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 5: he going too his thing, he could do it to him.

1258
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 5: And so but that was because he just he just

1259
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 5: knew where his niche was and he refected us. We

1260
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 5: talked about earlier, the individuality that was powerful for.

1261
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 4: Him Carla was his daughter?

1262
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 5: Correct, Carla was his daughter?

1263
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 4: How was it when she came along? How did that work?

1264
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 5: Well? Carla came along at a time when when Jimster

1265
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 5: recorded Rufus and Colin or a record called Cass I

1266
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 5: Love It, which they said it was a hit, but

1267
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 5: it really was the marginal kind of record. But Jim

1268
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 5: saw something in Carla and asked her if she had

1269
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 5: any original songs, and she had a song called Gee Whiz,

1270
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 5: and Coler paid a little piano and Cola recorded Ge Whiz.

1271
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 5: It really became the dome the for stacks and the

1272
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 5: relationship with Atlantic Records. That initiated the really power of

1273
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 5: the deal for us, and that was what that was.

1274
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 5: And then Isaaca and I had the biggest record on

1275
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 5: Calling because we wrote a song called b A b

1276
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 5: Y and we produced that on Calling and that was

1277
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 5: her biggest record. But yeah, no, she she was. She

1278
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 5: did some some some stuff and the record with as

1279
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 5: quest mentioned with Trump, was she oldest? Brought out another

1280
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 5: kind of person on that. It's very fact.

1281
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 2: We talked about soul Man, but there's a whole like

1282
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 2: barge of classic songs. I'm just gonna name something. Can

1283
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 2: you recall the stories of how or tell me what

1284
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 2: the songwriting processes for some of these songs, like when

1285
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: Something's Wrong with My Baby?

1286
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was. I was. I was a managed boy

1287
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:52,440
Speaker 5: and got a girl pregnant high school and my mama said,

1288
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 5: you got married, and I married? Uh, nineteen years old,

1289
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 5: I married him. And so I'm living been with a

1290
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 5: kid and fantasizing as I'm trying to get the music

1291
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 5: bus as an effective way. I'm about love and what

1292
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 5: would be the power love? Because the young lady didn't

1293
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 5: love me and I didn't love her, but but we

1294
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 5: had a kid, and so I would dream about babies

1295
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 5: and so just I would have a pad up under

1296
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 5: the bed, which I still do that when a right.

1297
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 5: And sometimes I'd wake up with a thought and the

1298
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 5: idea and I would write it down. When something is

1299
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 5: Wrong with my Baby was one of those ideas that

1300
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 5: I woke up in the dream, wrote, wrote the title down,

1301
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 5: got up, wrote the whole song out. Carl Isaac. We

1302
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: couldn't get into the studio, As I mentioned, we didn't

1303
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 5: have a lot of rooms at this time. Couldn't get

1304
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 5: in the studio. We went over to Sidney Kirk's house

1305
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 5: one of Isaac's friend got his piano wrote when Something

1306
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 5: Is Wrong with My Baby in about twenty five thirty

1307
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 5: minutes because they had the melody already in the head.

1308
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 5: And the rest is history with that song. But that

1309
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 5: was like when I mentioned the titles Isaac, he said, man,

1310
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 5: I love that, and we wrote it. So Man came

1311
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 5: about just as equally because Isaac heard something out of

1312
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 5: Detroit and said, man, we need to write a song

1313
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 5: called soul Man, and then here comes sol Man. We're

1314
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 5: talking us. We wanted to be a motivational song for

1315
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 5: our community. So I talked about getting an education. I

1316
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 5: was educated at Woodstock. I was brought up on the science.

1317
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 5: We talked about. I'm the beginning the whole manifestation of

1318
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 5: motivating people, the double meaning of soul Man in the

1319
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 5: Woodstock line in there. That was before the festival Woodstock,

1320
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 5: and when Bluci and Akro was saying, people thought that

1321
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 5: we had Woodstock. Woodstock was a county school in Memphis.

1322
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 5: But but all of those things came about with us

1323
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 5: trying to think of ways to make ideas that people

1324
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 5: can relate to, but also a motivational for people inside

1325
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 5: of the subliminal message in our writings, and that's what

1326
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:49,799
Speaker 5: we were.

1327
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 4: Doing when you and when you and Isaac worked together.

1328
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 4: How did y'all work?

1329
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 6: Like?

1330
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 4: Did you were you on piano? Was he on piano?

1331
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,520
Speaker 4: Or were you more lyrics Isaac.

1332
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 5: Was on piano. I started out as allows the trumpet player,

1333
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 5: to start trying to play trumpet in high school and

1334
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 5: wanted to be a singing star. Mauric went the drama

1335
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 5: in high school and Booker was below us in high school,

1336
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 5: and so I started thinking I was this great great

1337
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 5: singing and put down the instruments. And so by the

1338
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 5: time Isaac and I got together, I understood melodically how

1339
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 5: to do exactly what we needed to do lyrically how

1340
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 5: to do that. And Isaac we started out, I just

1341
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 5: started up playing trippers on the piano before we started,

1342
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 5: just stretching himself to do all he could do. And

1343
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, he started discovering things that he

1344
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 5: would hear inside of his head, which is where the

1345
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 5: head arrange the came. And I started finding things I

1346
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 5: would hear inside of my head. And then when we would

1347
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 5: sit down to write a song or come up with

1348
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 5: an idea, if we had to put some piece of

1349
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 5: something down on another tape to use it as a

1350
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 5: reference for something possibility. We would then sit down and

1351
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 5: create the songs right from stretch. Right at that point

1352
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 5: we'd schedule or writing. We'd go and do a gig

1353
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 5: at a club or something like that and come to

1354
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 5: the studio and just start writing, and we would do

1355
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 5: that artist to artist, song to song individualities and being

1356
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,719
Speaker 5: a blue song on Johnny Taylor, a blue song on Abbath,

1357
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 5: king of a Lover, song on a Soul Children, a

1358
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 5: pretty song on the Emotions, a flat down song on

1359
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 5: Sam and that. We focused on doing it the way

1360
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 5: we felt the inside of the room. But it was Jilly,

1361
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 5: Isaac and I were sitting at the piano, me coming

1362
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 5: up with the melodies and the lyrics of the song,

1363
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 5: singing the song, and we're coming up with a musical

1364
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 5: direction that we would go inside of that. The head

1365
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 5: arranging part of that comes, so we would go into

1366
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 5: the room. We talk about the concept of it if

1367
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 5: we wanted to hold on them coming. It was one

1368
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 5: of those examples where he had had had a horn

1369
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 5: pattern down weeks before and we talked about coming up

1370
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 5: with this idea. After I came out of the restroom,

1371
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 5: and then we talked about an idea about Superman, a

1372
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 5: resking kind of thing and a motivation for people, and

1373
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 5: that was what the thought was. And once we said that,

1374
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 5: twenty minutes later we had the song don't you Ever

1375
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 5: Feel Sad? But you know, I mean when the times

1376
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 5: of bad to day comes, you're down trouble in about

1377
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 5: the drown hold on I'm coming. And we talked about

1378
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 5: the unity and the bond between people with that.

1379
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 2: When you were recalling the story of Something's Wrong with

1380
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 2: My Baby, for half a second, I was like, oh God,

1381
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: this isn't a love song. He's talking about his newborn

1382
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 2: kid being sick. And I was like, wait, where's he

1383
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 2: about to go with this story? Like that's what it

1384
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 2: means literally a baby?

1385
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 5: No. Now, I was trying to think about what it'd

1386
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 5: be like they had a real woman that I could

1387
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 5: really feel all of that for.

1388
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 2: I feel you, I believe. In ninety one ninety two,

1389
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 2: back when the idea of a box set was a

1390
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 2: novel idea, these eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve CD sets

1391
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 2: like a history of a label started happening for the

1392
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,559
Speaker 2: record industry because literally, if you buy the Stacks box set,

1393
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety one. You can hear the entire history

1394
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: of the Wu Tang clan. I want to know, have

1395
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 2: you ever met the Riza and what were your initial

1396
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 2: thoughts in the mid nineties when suddenly the thing about

1397
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 2: Riza and his sampling method is it was even jarring.

1398
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can speak for Liah, Steve

1399
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 2: or Fante, but his level of sampling was really jarring,

1400
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,600
Speaker 2: Like like, I'm very familiar with the sweet inspirations like

1401
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 2: Why Mary and all that stuff, and so just the

1402
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 2: just the very unorthodox way that he sampled that Why

1403
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 2: Mary is a criminology.

1404
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 4: I knew it was always different with Rizza.

1405
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 3: I knew it was never you can't it ain't easy.

1406
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 4: It was never easy.

1407
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 2: That's and he wasn't.

1408
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 4: He wasn't afraid to use voices either, like he would

1409
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 4: a lot generally when you would chop samples, you would

1410
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 4: try to get out of the vocal. You know what

1411
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 4: I'm saying. He would almost intentionally like incorporate the vocal use.

1412
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very so when you're hearing like or

1413
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 2: I guess you know that you have to get permission.

1414
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what the process is like if your

1415
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 2: publisher just says, hey, I give a permission, or they

1416
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 2: got to go to the songwriter. Sometimes we got to

1417
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 2: have a conversation with the songwriter. Sometimes it's just like, yeah,

1418
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 2: you could clear it. But when when your work starts

1419
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 2: getting a lot of traction in the early to mid

1420
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 2: nineties with Biggie, with even Mop, with Annie Up Soul,

1421
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 2: Sister Brown Sugar, I believe yeah, yeah, Like what are

1422
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 2: you feeling? Is are you feeling like to change I'm back?

1423
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:39,120
Speaker 2: Or is it like wait, I didn't intend my songs

1424
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 2: to sound like this, Like what are they doing?

1425
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 5: The respect for the creative process was something that I'm

1426
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 5: marveled at. I know Isaac marvel it and the fact

1427
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,799
Speaker 5: that I just simply felt good they found an interesting

1428
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 5: way to interpret something that I was on the creation of.

1429
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 5: When Rizza and I met Rizza Mett, I've been even

1430
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 5: introduced him on some shows and soff and he's come

1431
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 5: to my studio and everything, and just the level of

1432
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 5: respect that those guys head for the catalog was just

1433
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 5: amazing to me. But also find the interesting ways they

1434
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 5: found to interpret the song like Cream, I mean, like

1435
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 5: I mean, come on, you know, wait, let me.

1436
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 2: Inter up to you because I got a question with

1437
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 2: as long as I Got You? Maybe maybe like four

1438
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 2: five years ago actually, I think during the Motions episode

1439
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 2: I played it. The Emotions have a version of as

1440
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: Long as I Got You, which is even funkier. It

1441
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,919
Speaker 2: sounds like a demo. Why wasn't that version ever released?

1442
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 5: Because it probably sounded like the demo that you're talking about.

1443
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 5: You know, I really, I really don't even remember the

1444
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 5: Emotion's version. You know how embarrassed that is for me

1445
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 5: to say that, because I'm you.

1446
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 4: Got too ate over two thousand songs, like we will forgive

1447
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 4: you for forgetting one.

1448
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:06,520
Speaker 5: Remember everything's say here.

1449
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 2: But again, you you've done over two thousand songs, so

1450
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 2: you can forget a few.

1451
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 5: But but the version that we did with the Chameles,

1452
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 5: Isaac was was uh. I don't want to bust him out,

1453
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 5: but he was. He was a little romandoumly fascinated with

1454
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 5: one of the girls with that. Because we weren't even

1455
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 5: they were not looked upon it as an act that

1456
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 5: we're gonna let's go into and we're gonna record this

1457
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 5: s group called the Chameles. We knew them Mary and

1458
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 5: And and Milk. We knew them, but when Isaac come

1459
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 5: he said, man, we ought to record record them? He said,

1460
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 5: what he said, Well, so we did. And one of

1461
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 5: the banner things that we did, the one banner thing

1462
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 5: that we did that I just s marvel. It was

1463
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 5: as long as I got you. And that was also

1464
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 5: one of those things that we naturally felled the power of.

1465
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 5: And when we just wrote the song and then Barbara,

1466
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 5: who is the least singer of it, her text on

1467
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 5: it was amazing. Isaak is singing background on some of

1468
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 5: the parts in the record. Wow, that's not all the

1469
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 5: girl was saying, so so so it's it's It was

1470
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 5: one of those things that I was shocked at how

1471
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 5: it ended up being sampled so much. Even the Nicole

1472
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 5: bus sample of it. I mean, that's Barbara singing that

1473
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 5: part of it on the record. That's the actual record

1474
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 5: on on you on the cod Okay section of it.

1475
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 2: You know, we gotta mention you've also worked with the

1476
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 2: legendary Cissy Houston and the Sweet Inspirations.

1477
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 5: Not Cissy but but the Sweetest Races because Sissy wasn't.

1478
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 2: She left the group at the time.

1479
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, she left the group at the time. Yeah, if

1480
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 5: it was three of them at the time. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1481
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 5: Sissy wasn't with them, and and wishes and dishes and

1482
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:00,680
Speaker 5: and you're wrong when you're don't get it at the

1483
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 5: home of those songs and sisters not on that.

1484
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 2: So were the Emotions the only group that weren't necessarily

1485
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 2: quote unquote homegrown. Was the main protocol of Stax Records

1486
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 2: to just have like Memphis Homegroom talent or like, how

1487
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 2: did do you know how the Emotions came to the

1488
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 2: label and what was it like working with them?

1489
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 5: Hervis Staples bought the Emotions to us.

1490
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:24,679
Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right.

1491
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he brought him to Isaac and I and

1492
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 5: they were very very young, sixteen years old, very very young.

1493
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 5: Sheila was younger than sixteen. Well I think Wonder was

1494
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 5: the oldest one, I believe, right. But Purvis bought them

1495
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 5: to Isaac and I take a listen to and their

1496
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 5: father was Joe was like a little guitar player. He

1497
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 5: wanted to be a part of the group. He was

1498
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 5: their father. And so we listened to them and we

1499
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 5: said that Joe wanted to be a part of the

1500
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,560
Speaker 5: group because he was impressed with you know, Pop Staples.

1501
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 5: You know with the Staples, and so we said if

1502
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 5: we would do them, we'd have to do just the girls,

1503
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 5: and so we did the Girl but but purpose was

1504
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 5: the one that brought them to us. Wow.

1505
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 2: Okay, so you you mentioned it earlier. I was saving

1506
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 2: it for now, but you gotta tell me, like, what

1507
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 2: is the story behind I'm afraid the Masquerade is over?

1508
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:20,719
Speaker 1: Because every time I.

1509
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 2: Yo, every time I have a breakup, like just that

1510
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:31,599
Speaker 2: is one of the saddest songs ever. And now and

1511
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 2: that's another example of like they're crazy arrangements in that song.

1512
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: And now that you're telling me that you guys are

1513
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 2: going on phillion and all that stuff.

1514
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 5: And iterant, I'm walking around the room to tell what was.

1515
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: The genesis of that song?

1516
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 5: Actually behind the second album which had hang On Sloopy

1517
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 5: on it. I don't know if you ever heard that. Yeah, yeah,

1518
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:59,599
Speaker 5: but I didn't quite hit the mark with hang On Sloopy,

1519
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 5: But I like the concept that I had would hang

1520
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 5: on stupid. So when I came up with the concept

1521
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,640
Speaker 5: of creating acting scenes inside of the next project, I

1522
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 5: knew I was going to create something different. So I

1523
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 5: wanted to have acting scenes.

1524
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 2: Who is who's the woman? Who's the woman that was one.

1525
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 5: Of my secretary but also my wife. My second wife

1526
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 5: was also in that. That's that when the card scene,

1527
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 5: I come up running, Uh, that's my second wife. The

1528
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 5: girl I'm talking to about the girl, yeah that I'm

1529
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 5: fascinated with the girl that was actually my wife.

1530
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 2: Wait time, now there's two women on that song.

1531
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, if you go to the very beginning not

1532
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 5: note on that song. If you go to the very beginning.

1533
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 2: Of the album, yes, I don't know that I want yes.

1534
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, And and I go you open the door, and

1535
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 5: I go into this party and I'm talking, well, the

1536
01:21:56,240 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 5: girl that's talking to me about the other girl that

1537
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 5: was my way. I wrote off the story as I

1538
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 5: would go, and I then selected the songs that would

1539
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 5: fit the concept of where I was going to take

1540
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 5: the story to. If you noticed the last song on

1541
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,800
Speaker 5: it was Airplane Ticket Bus Ride, Can I Borrow Your Car?

1542
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 5: I wrote that at the last minute because I had

1543
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,880
Speaker 5: gone through the whole storyline and didn't have the closed

1544
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:28,719
Speaker 5: out song. But the Masqueraders overcame about where I wanted

1545
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 5: to create something that gave the essences of all the

1546
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 5: things that are having prior to that period in the

1547
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 5: album where this acting scenes. So if you notice the

1548
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:45,040
Speaker 5: breakdown comes and I started rapping, well, I didn't have

1549
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 5: it written out. I knew the concept. I didn't have

1550
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 5: the rap written out on that song. I knew the

1551
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 5: concept and I talked the concept after I did the

1552
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 5: head arrangers for the parts.

1553
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 2: So you're singing it as the band sort of reading

1554
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: your face at the same time.

1555
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,719
Speaker 5: No, no, I did the track first. In my mind,

1556
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 5: I'm looking at I'm going through the motion of this,

1557
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,839
Speaker 5: feel inside of the various transitions. That's why the piano

1558
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 5: part that's running playing the piano, I'm humming the piano

1559
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 5: part for running to play the signature has been saving

1560
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 5: all this time. That's one of those things where a

1561
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,400
Speaker 5: piano player and that's what we want to play more.

1562
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 5: Just play that and stop just that and when I

1563
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 5: clue you stop on that. That's what that was. But

1564
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 5: so so after that was done, now I get rid

1565
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 5: of the sing the song. Now I do the rap,

1566
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 5: and I'm feeling where the parts are before I do

1567
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 5: the horns, and I'm feeling all of that and I'm

1568
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 5: making I promise you, I'm making it up come to

1569
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 5: an extended part, not the actually gotter song. I'm making

1570
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 5: it up the whole time because I know where the

1571
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 5: storyline is going to ultimately end up and where it's

1572
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 5: gonna lead to make song.

1573
01:23:57,720 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 1: But not that I ever counted bars.

1574
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 2: But in your mind you're like, Okay, we're gonna do

1575
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 2: thirty two bars of a break and I'll figure out

1576
01:24:05,439 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 2: something to say in these thirty two bars. No, and

1577
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 2: then it's over, like you.

1578
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 5: Know now what I know? By kind Bob, we do that,

1579
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 5: but not on this song. I said you got. I'm

1580
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 5: walking around the room talking in the microphone, directing cats

1581
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 5: in the microphone. I'm going around the room while the

1582
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 5: track is while I've got the bed foundation of the

1583
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 5: track right, Oh my mama, I'm telling you this how

1584
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 5: this was done. I'm walking around the room harming the parts.

1585
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 5: I don't know how many bars I'm gonna make this.

1586
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 5: I just want to make the emotional connectivity be a

1587
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 5: finif enough for me to feel something I need to

1588
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 5: feel when it's time to make the transition. That's why

1589
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,679
Speaker 5: you hear some call flops and things inside of the track. Listen.

1590
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 5: I know, you know, you know, that's why you hear

1591
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 5: some of that. But after this of it a lot

1592
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 5: of that.

1593
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:07,759
Speaker 2: Listeners of QLs. Right now, I'm doing the Jim Carrey

1594
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,799
Speaker 2: dumb and dumber realization.

1595
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:16,600
Speaker 1: Jeff, I can't believe this.

1596
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,680
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, I was.

1597
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 4: Asked, David, were you a fan by chance of David Axelrod?

1598
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:24,719
Speaker 2: Did you listen to any of his stuff?

1599
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 4: Really?

1600
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:27,639
Speaker 2: Okay?

1601
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 4: I just both of y'all always like, oh yeah, both

1602
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 4: of you guys, y'all kind of have like this really

1603
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 4: dark yeah, dramatic, like big uh, Like it's it's big

1604
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 4: and like beautiful, but it's also kind of dark and

1605
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 4: kind of a Carver as well. And it's really classy.

1606
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,680
Speaker 4: It's elegant, but it's really like dark and it can

1607
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 4: be like, oh you listen to that, listen to it

1608
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 4: in the dark, you might be freaked out little bit,

1609
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 4: but really beautiful stuff. Man. I just I just wondered

1610
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 4: if y'all were fans of each other.

1611
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 5: Well, well, you know what I would tell you this, man,

1612
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,679
Speaker 5: I am. I feel that I've been so blessed because

1613
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 5: what come has come through me is the grace of

1614
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 5: the man upstairs. Because I have a nonprofit program where

1615
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:18,679
Speaker 5: I teach songwriting, record producing, record all of that called

1616
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 5: the constroint MT it's ten years old. A lot of

1617
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 5: what you get coming out of ificent kids that have

1618
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 5: gone through my program in songwriting. All this's got got

1619
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 5: one hundred.

1620
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 8: And thirty some videos with everybody Stevie Baries, Philip Bailey,

1621
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 8: Jimmy jam Bobby Womag, Edie le Verge I mean, let usy,

1622
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 8: I mean on video talking about their concepts of the

1623
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:40,440
Speaker 8: creating process.

1624
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 5: So all of this, I had to come up with

1625
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 5: a set way to understand how I do what I

1626
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 5: do for the success of those things to come out

1627
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:52,519
Speaker 5: of that, because if I was relying totally on how

1628
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,240
Speaker 5: I felt, people don't care about how you feel. They

1629
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 5: care about how you make them feel. So I had

1630
01:26:57,439 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 5: to find a way to make the magic of that

1631
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,559
Speaker 5: be resonating to others. And I had to also know

1632
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 5: in order to replicate it again, find some way to

1633
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 5: understand it. And part of what Isaac and I would

1634
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,639
Speaker 5: talk about, and sometimes he would think I was crazy

1635
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 5: because I was so far into that, but it was

1636
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 5: a gift and Maurice White and I came from Virginia Street. Maurice,

1637
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 5: if you read this book, you see that he talked

1638
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 5: about me being one of the first persons he ran

1639
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 5: the name earth Winn in firedown too. Why I flew

1640
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 5: to La I was a hot producer. Maurice's with Ramsay

1641
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 5: planned the Hong Kong by the Cintray Plaza hotel. I

1642
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 5: flew to La because he wanted to tell me something

1643
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,799
Speaker 5: he did to give. The next day we walking up sunset.

1644
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 5: He's going to tell your concept. I gat Maurice created

1645
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 5: earth Wind and off of a concept in the direction

1646
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,640
Speaker 5: that he had from the gift go and knew exactly

1647
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 5: what he was going to go in and the creative

1648
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 5: process because he knew he wanted to have an identity

1649
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 5: that created a uniqueness that was totally him. That is

1650
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 5: the essence of what comes out of Memphis in such

1651
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 5: unique way. He said, no one can can understand it,

1652
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 5: including me. Is say, if it's a God given gift?

1653
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 2: Was was Marius's uh metaphysical.

1654
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 1: Direction?

1655
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 2: Was it jarring to you at the time, because you

1656
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 2: know what Marius was trying to convey with earth Wind

1657
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 2: and Fire was like the spirit, which which is kind

1658
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,719
Speaker 2: of the exact opposite of even though he was using

1659
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 2: gospel overturns in the Southern Church, but he's really using

1660
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:37,240
Speaker 2: metaphysics and things outside of westernized Christianity. Was that a

1661
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 2: little weird for you at the time, Like what you

1662
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:44,600
Speaker 2: get into Marius? Like, like, how did you perceive this,

1663
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 2: this kind of spirituality that Marius was was conveying with

1664
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 2: with the band.

1665
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 5: We're walking up the street and when he said, tell

1666
01:28:54,840 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 5: me what you think about this earth when in fire?

1667
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:07,440
Speaker 5: Consider the time period that we're talking about, Ohio players,

1668
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 5: mm hmm. All of the men go down there. He

1669
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 5: comes a guy says, earth when in fire, and this

1670
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 5: is the concept David, And then I'm gonna fuse jazz.

1671
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 5: But he ran all of that down to me. He's

1672
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:30,400
Speaker 5: gonna fuse that inside of it. What I thought was

1673
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 5: he's gonna make something work, because we always talked about

1674
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:38,600
Speaker 5: how I stumbled up from the spirituality of what I

1675
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 5: was doing to make it work. And I just believe

1676
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 5: he was gonna make it work. I just didn't know

1677
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,839
Speaker 5: how he was going to accomplish it in the climate

1678
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,040
Speaker 5: that we were living in. Because he was it was

1679
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 5: going to be so innovative, it had to be. But

1680
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 5: when I heard the sound of what he did, because

1681
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 5: he had a group before or winning fire, when I

1682
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 5: heard the sound of what he did with the group

1683
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:03,240
Speaker 5: he was, it was over and we stayed like this.

1684
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 5: I was I would fly to la when when Maurice

1685
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 5: had the parkass just to get him in the car

1686
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 5: and ride in the street because he was through touring.

1687
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 5: We were that close and we talked up and toil

1688
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 5: he left it so his thought about what he was

1689
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 5: going to do because he had that thought about what

1690
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:21,759
Speaker 5: those processes was going to be and what the musician

1691
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,559
Speaker 5: was going to be before he put it together. The

1692
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 5: only thing he told me differently while we were on

1693
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 5: suns he said, I'm going to bring verdein out here

1694
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:32,120
Speaker 5: to California. He told me that. But other than that,

1695
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 5: he was going to put all of those ingredients together

1696
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,840
Speaker 5: and he did it. But yeah, I just because we

1697
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,960
Speaker 5: worked off of concepts in the direction and identity and

1698
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,120
Speaker 5: all of those things we lived off of that. I

1699
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 5: just didn't know he would put it off. He did.

1700
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 5: I believed in.

1701
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:57,720
Speaker 2: There is one important question I forgot to ask as

1702
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 2: a kid that grew up in a three thousand album household,

1703
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 2: and especially a kid that was afraid of clowns dog,

1704
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 2: who was the who was the artistic visionary behind the

1705
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 2: album cover for Victim of the Joke?

1706
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:25,799
Speaker 5: And when he says you can't handle the truth, Listen,

1707
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 5: that's a joke. That's a joke. I didn't know how

1708
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 5: smart I was. I just thought that because I had

1709
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:36,639
Speaker 5: some Tennessee walker horses out in Shelby Farms. I just thought,

1710
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 5: I want to do this cover and I want to

1711
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 5: have a clown outfit on and I want to be

1712
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,760
Speaker 5: I want to sit on a drum because I want

1713
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 5: to make this an opera. Called it victim of the

1714
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 5: joke I wanted to be, and I want to make

1715
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 5: it like who's the clown? Well and so, but this

1716
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 5: is before I wrote out the script. I had that.

1717
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:01,040
Speaker 5: So that was one of those things whereuse its just said,

1718
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 5: it came from another kind of space, just like when

1719
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 5: something is wrong, came from another kind of space. Hold

1720
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 5: on coming came from another kind of space. The toilet

1721
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 5: was there, but it was somewhere else. When it's just

1722
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 5: it's from another kind of space.

1723
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 2: When was the ending of Stacks as we knew it?

1724
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:22,559
Speaker 5: The ending of Stacks happened with Isaac still there, me

1725
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 5: still in charge of five labels ahead of an RM.

1726
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 5: Steve Cropper was gone, Doug Dunn was gone. Al Jackson Jr.

1727
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,520
Speaker 5: Was there, and so it was. It was a situation

1728
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 5: where we didn't know what was going on with the

1729
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 5: business part of the company, but we knew that al

1730
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 5: bail It became such a revered person, certainly after the

1731
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:52,440
Speaker 5: watch Stacks that we did, which was amazing within itself,

1732
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 5: until it was almost I had the feeling that that

1733
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 5: the business white community where the biggest were when it

1734
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 5: found out that because we had a line of credit

1735
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 5: with a particular bank there, when they found out that

1736
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:06,920
Speaker 5: this this black man was was what he was was doing,

1737
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 5: what he was doing, that it was almost they called

1738
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 5: the line and came at us in such a way

1739
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:19,639
Speaker 5: that they got al Bill indicted eighteen indicting it and

1740
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 5: tried to destroy him foreclothes on the company. And the

1741
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 5: last thing we knew was Isaac couldn't get any money

1742
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 5: his money which he it was millions of dollars there

1743
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 5: and the company actually folded because of foreclosure. Isaac then

1744
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 5: left Stacks when it was foreclosed and then signed with

1745
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 5: the other label, but he didn't he didn't sign with

1746
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 5: another label before Stacks closed. Wow, And so but it

1747
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 5: was it was an attack on destroying a powerful company

1748
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 5: that was creating a great amount of jobs and a

1749
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 5: tremendous amount of notoriety for Memphis, Tennessee. And you put

1750
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,680
Speaker 5: that with what Willie Mitchell was doing. We were a

1751
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 5: power base in a city that was seaked in a

1752
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 5: in a kind of bigoty that was not in its

1753
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 5: own interest because the credit bills that we was bringing

1754
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,479
Speaker 5: to the city was tremendous in itself.

1755
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:18,800
Speaker 4: They were you around when Al Bell formed Bellmark, his

1756
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:21,240
Speaker 4: his indie label that they put out they ended up

1757
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:22,760
Speaker 4: putting out there it is, but.

1758
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, he l moved to California when he did that.

1759
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 5: You know, he had an office building on Hollywood there.

1760
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 5: You know, I was definitely wrong when Al when Stax

1761
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 5: was over and everybody thought Al was over. Al he

1762
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 5: ended up, you know, creating baill Mark. As you said,

1763
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 5: Wait a minute, he was. He was still in a

1764
01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 5: brilliant mind.

1765
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think he did. He did Prince the

1766
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 4: most Beautiful Girl in the World.

1767
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:53,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I forgot in Motown and Motown

1768
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 3: say what Al.

1769
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 5: Bell worked with Barry Guardy in Motown.

1770
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 4: For the Bells, them Bells. I'm trying to check that.

1771
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:05,600
Speaker 5: Out, Joe. You know, I'm gonna say I've listened to

1772
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:10,560
Speaker 5: you guys, and I just muddled and how much information

1773
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 5: Wasn't it.

1774
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 2: Was Fantasy Records at all associated with al Bell because

1775
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 2: there was a period in the in the early Arts,

1776
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 2: like in two thousand and whatnot, in which ah damn,

1777
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 2: see I'm messing up right now. One of the executives

1778
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:29,200
Speaker 2: that used to work at Geffen who signed me, went

1779
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 2: to Fantasy and was like, yes, we have all the

1780
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:34,599
Speaker 2: Fantasy masters and all the Stacks masters.

1781
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,720
Speaker 5: Like can I can I say? Of course? Was that

1782
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 5: was that Erny Singleton?

1783
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: I know any Singleton? But no it was not him.

1784
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 5: No, okay, okay, because I only worked for Fantasy period.

1785
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 2: Okay, but okay, So I guess they connected in the

1786
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 2: early arts.

1787
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:52,639
Speaker 5: Well you know how to Fantasy deal happened? Right?

1788
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 2: No, I don't know, okay.

1789
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 5: Stax's closed was totally closed in seventy six. Here comes

1790
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:04,560
Speaker 5: to people to me and asked me, would I create

1791
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:07,400
Speaker 5: a seven and a half tape of what was in

1792
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:11,599
Speaker 5: the Stacked library? And would I do that? Because they

1793
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 5: didn't know what it was. The bank had foreclosers and

1794
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 5: they were just trying to figure out how to get

1795
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 5: rid of stuff, and they didn't know what they had,

1796
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 5: and so what happened was they had to pay me

1797
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 5: one hundred thousand dollars to put seven and a half

1798
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:29,320
Speaker 5: takes together for about forty five minutes. And Fantasy Records

1799
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 5: came to me after that and asked me what I

1800
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:38,599
Speaker 5: had up the label for them. What they wanted was

1801
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 5: to release the catalog of the music, and they wanted

1802
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:47,000
Speaker 5: me to move to Berkeley, California. I said, I would

1803
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 5: not move to Berkeley, California if you answered me doing it.

1804
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 5: I would have to do it in Memphis, and I

1805
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 5: also would have to have the right to sign some

1806
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 5: of the artists to the label and you release records

1807
01:36:57,960 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 5: on them. We said, we don't really want to do

1808
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 5: I said, well then I'm not interested. Well, they would

1809
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 5: not have known what to do with the catalog, so

1810
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 5: they made the deal with me. Ernie Singleton, who later

1811
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:10,719
Speaker 5: became the president of MCA, and that's why we close

1812
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 5: to this day, was working for Fantasy Records. Another guy

1813
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:16,640
Speaker 5: by the name of Bob Orshey was working there. I

1814
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 5: released the record on the Emotions. They had a record

1815
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 5: called Shouting Out Love. I released a record I have

1816
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 5: on ISAAC called hot Bed. I released a record on

1817
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 5: the barcade called Holy Ghosts. I released a record on

1818
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 5: the Soldier and called Can't give Up a Good Thing.

1819
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 5: I had another act by the name of Shown Up.

1820
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:37,920
Speaker 5: And if you go seventy eight should be and you

1821
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:41,040
Speaker 5: google seven eight Billboard magazine, you'll see there were four

1822
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,519
Speaker 5: or five records on the national charts of with Stax

1823
01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:47,080
Speaker 5: Fantasy on it. And then when I told the guy,

1824
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 5: we have an opportunity to be successful, he says, no,

1825
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 5: I don't want I said we can be big. I

1826
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 5: said I don't want to be big, and then I

1827
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:57,720
Speaker 5: left the deal because I realized what time that was. Wow.

1828
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:01,320
Speaker 5: I won't go deeper than that anyway. I wasn't interested

1829
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:05,639
Speaker 5: in that. So that's what happened. So after that, whoever

1830
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:09,519
Speaker 5: signed with Fantasy I lift in seventy eight, after those

1831
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 5: records were released. If those records that I mentioned, Holy

1832
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 5: ghost they hit on the barcades, that was after Saxic Clue.

1833
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,120
Speaker 2: I was going to ask what was it because they

1834
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 2: were Mercury at the time, Like was that in their

1835
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 2: that was just in the vaults or something that was.

1836
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 5: I got that out of the vault, I got the

1837
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,439
Speaker 5: help out of Issa out of the bolt. I got

1838
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:29,639
Speaker 5: the help out of the emotions out of the vault. Ah,

1839
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 5: I recalled it an ah see.

1840
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 2: But because the thing is the Barks era I want

1841
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 2: to know about is again the posts, you know, the

1842
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:47,640
Speaker 2: seventies barcades. But maybe you know the answer, with the

1843
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 2: exception of Holy Ghost, why is every song they ever

1844
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:59,479
Speaker 2: released like derivative of someone else's hit? Like did they

1845
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:03,760
Speaker 2: think that we wouldn't put you and two together? That

1846
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 2: shine was you know, earth wind fires on your face

1847
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 2: or you know, shake your rump to the front might

1848
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 2: be shining star, or like, were they just the type

1849
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,479
Speaker 2: of seventies band that would just get the forty five

1850
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:24,599
Speaker 2: of the moment, study that forty five and figure out, Okay,

1851
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:28,600
Speaker 2: what's our formula for that? Because literally Holy Ghost is

1852
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 2: probably like even even on Stacks, like a song like

1853
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 2: it's on the Cold Blooded records, like one of my

1854
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:41,840
Speaker 2: favorite Barkay's Joint, which is basically kind of derivative of

1855
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:46,320
Speaker 2: when the World's at Peace by the OJ's It's Wow.

1856
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 5: No.

1857
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 2: Literally, Jimmy jam and I like pretty much kept a

1858
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 2: record of every song that the Barks has ever created.

1859
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 2: Oh this is a song called a fighting fire with

1860
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:03,760
Speaker 2: fire or the Stack era Barcas, which you know it's

1861
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:07,320
Speaker 2: also a popular sample for hip hop. But there's almost

1862
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:12,839
Speaker 2: one element in every I mean even on those earlier records,

1863
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:15,639
Speaker 2: like they're sliding and family Stones dance to the music,

1864
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:19,200
Speaker 2: and it's like, don't stop, dance to the music. Don't stop.

1865
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:21,880
Speaker 2: Like were they not afraid that one day they might

1866
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:25,000
Speaker 2: get caught in the sort of litigation with.

1867
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 5: Being well, you understand, the guy who would ended up

1868
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:33,679
Speaker 5: taking them over in total, who didn't have the control

1869
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:36,639
Speaker 5: of Stax Records and then being kept in a particular

1870
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 5: direction that records could be sold on was a guy

1871
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:40,599
Speaker 5: by the name of Work with Us, by the name

1872
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:45,600
Speaker 5: of Alan Jones. Okay, Alan Jones became the producer, the

1873
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 5: only producer and the manager of the Barcades, and he

1874
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 5: came up with the direction that they were going to go.

1875
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:55,160
Speaker 5: In matter of fact, I'm going to be sure to

1876
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:56,519
Speaker 5: get James so you can interview that.

1877
01:40:57,120 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, please do us that salad, please please please.

1878
01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:04,920
Speaker 5: It's done. But but so Alan was the one who

1879
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 5: was giving them this this particular direction, and I would

1880
01:41:08,920 --> 01:41:11,040
Speaker 5: rather I won't butch it up. I'm gonna get James

1881
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:13,519
Speaker 5: and he'll he'll, he would tell you asking about Alan

1882
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:17,880
Speaker 5: Jones and Larry Dobson, who was versatile and his vocal

1883
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:21,639
Speaker 5: could could immolate those be the Oklaha players or whoever.

1884
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:25,639
Speaker 2: Larry Donson is probably one of the most underrated soul cats,

1885
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 2: still in fine form with it with his but yeah,

1886
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:32,040
Speaker 2: the legendary Alan Jones, who you know, I forgot to

1887
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,639
Speaker 2: ask about cold feet with Albert King and I'll play

1888
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,640
Speaker 2: the blues for you and all that stuff. Yes, legendary,

1889
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:42,439
Speaker 2: legendary man. This this is such an honor to just

1890
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 2: to talk to you and finally get some in depth

1891
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:49,719
Speaker 2: stories from you, because we've never seen any feature linked

1892
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 2: article on you or or anything. And you're You're just

1893
01:41:54,120 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 2: a genius and a gentleman, and we thank you for

1894
01:41:57,120 --> 01:41:59,439
Speaker 2: being on our show. Yeah, straight up man.

1895
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:03,719
Speaker 4: Shout out to DJ Khalil too. I'm put this together again.

1896
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 2: Thank you. We appreciate you doing this. Unpaid Bill bruh,

1897
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:12,839
Speaker 2: you missed a you missed the masterpiece of an episode.

1898
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 2: I gotta let you know you're on behalf of Sugar

1899
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 2: Steve and font Ticcolo and Laya and Unpaid Phil and

1900
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:21,800
Speaker 2: the great David Porter.

1901
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:23,240
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1902
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 2: It's another classic episode of Quest Love Supreme and we

1903
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 2: will see you guys on the next go around. Thank you.

1904
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 1: M'ST Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For

1905
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1906
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:54,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.