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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, This is another episode h Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's quest Love, which means the family. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we got Layah. Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm well?

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Speaker 3: Hello, sir doing well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're back in LA right now?

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Speaker 3: I am back in La.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Gloom and Doom, Yeah, Gloom and Doom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, May Gray June Gloom.

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Speaker 2: People don't know this about La.

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Speaker 3: Get it, get it into it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's good to hear. Fan Takeolo is uh in

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Speaker 1: the blue room? Yeah, man, yeah, man, got a new

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Speaker 1: light bulb. But I think previously you're going purple.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going purple.

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Speaker 1: I went blue.

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Speaker 3: I went cool. You know what I'm saying. We got

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Speaker 3: a legend in the building with us today, so you know,

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Speaker 3: I tried to make it cool for him. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: Sugar Steve, what's up, bro? How you doing? Hi? Everybody?

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Speaker 5: Everything's good, Everything's good, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You, Steve. Ladies and gentlemen, I will say our guest

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Speaker 1: tonight is I mean, I feel like all of our

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Speaker 1: guests are legendary, super legendary, but our guest tonight world famous.

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Speaker 1: Songwriting Hall of Fame member, having damn near pinned over

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Speaker 1: close close to two thousand joints joints in his illustrious career.

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Speaker 1: He is the architect, in my opinion, the architect of

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Speaker 1: the sound of Memphis, you know, a city that has

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Speaker 1: rich musical history, and you know, as a staff member,

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Speaker 1: as a writer, as a producer for Al Bell's legendary

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Speaker 1: Stax label, he is given us so much magic over

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Speaker 1: the decades, along with this songwriting partner Isaac Hayes, and

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Speaker 1: on his own of course. You know he's worked with

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Speaker 1: too many legends. The name they're Sam and Dave's otis

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Speaker 1: writing Barks, Carlo Thomas, the Emotions, Albert King, Rufus Thomas

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Speaker 1: and of course Johnny watch out for jo D. Taylor.

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Speaker 1: Even if those names I mentioned are slightly before your time,

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Speaker 1: I will say that, you know, if you're a hip

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Speaker 1: hop head, can we say that his composition might be

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Speaker 1: the musical backdrop of the East West La Beef?

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Speaker 3: Oh man, Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: Well no, no, no, because the word is that you know,

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Speaker 1: pop got yeah, pop sort of felt that you know

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Speaker 1: who shot you was about him, which you know, we

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Speaker 1: have clear evidence that Biggie did that rhyme with Keith

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Speaker 1: Murray for the Mary J. Blige interlude, you know, long ago.

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Speaker 3: But the truth didn't matter at that point. The truth

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Speaker 3: didn't matter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the truth didn't matter. I guess the perception was

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Speaker 1: bigger than what reality was. You know, we live in

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Speaker 1: a time where facts don't matter, and so I will

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Speaker 1: just say that, you know, between like Biggie and Wu

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Speaker 1: Tang and Kane and m P and Will Smith and

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Speaker 1: so many others have used as his work. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're we're in the presence of a legend, and we're

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Speaker 1: honored to have the one and only Great David Porter

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Speaker 1: on Quest Love Supreme. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, as how they reed said, how do you

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Speaker 4: talk that? It's really an honor?

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Speaker 1: Ques, you laid the foundation. So I'm just you know,

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Speaker 1: regurgitating your your life's work. So where are you right now?

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Speaker 1: Are you still a members?

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Speaker 4: No? I'm in New York. I was speaker at the

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Speaker 4: ai mp A summit, which I left there and came

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Speaker 4: right here. That's why I have this loud jacket on.

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Speaker 4: I was along with your fan and your friend Doug

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Speaker 4: it Fresh. He wanted me to tell you.

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Speaker 3: How Oh okay, we had doug on the show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. I was going to ask, like,

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Speaker 1: do you normally dressed this swinky every day?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 4: A sweatsuit guy? That's me okay right now, loud jacket

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Speaker 4: on it, but he's folk. But Dougie wanted me to

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Speaker 4: be sure to tell you, and yes, there's an honor

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Speaker 4: for me to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. What you guys, can you tell us your

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Speaker 1: first musical memory?

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Speaker 4: Well, you mentioned one of the cornerstones of those memories,

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Speaker 4: and that's Maurice. I was born on the Dating Street

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Speaker 4: in Memphis, Tennessee. My next door neighbor was a family

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Speaker 4: called the Cunninghams, and they were drummers and we sang

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Speaker 4: up the street at a church called Rosi, a Baptist

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Speaker 4: church where if you read Maurice's autobaccay, he mentioned that

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Speaker 4: in his Bible, but which is true? And uh, Kelly

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Speaker 4: Cunningham and Leander Cunningham were the brothers that were older them.

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Speaker 4: Carled Cunningham, who just so happened to be the drummer

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Speaker 4: that was an airplane cress with all this reading. He

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Speaker 4: was the original drum for the barricades photos up the

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Speaker 4: street on the left hand side of the street was

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Speaker 4: Maurice White and and we came together eight nine years

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Speaker 4: old singing a Rose Here Baptist church right on on

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Speaker 4: that same dead end street. And the stimulus for the

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Speaker 4: impressions and the motivation for creativity and people making us

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Speaker 4: thinking that we had some singing talent because they were

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Speaker 4: clapping and shouting, and we didn't realize it because they

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Speaker 4: were worshiping. We thought it was all about as young kids.

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Speaker 4: But the motivation to want to have the passion for

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Speaker 4: music where they stem out of that experience.

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Speaker 1: So you were nine years old when you started playing

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Speaker 1: in your church.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually I was before nine. We were going to church.

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Speaker 4: Uh yeah. But but actually singing in a in a

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Speaker 4: kind of a quartet is not the right kind of

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Speaker 4: where but loop heads singing together Linn Kelly and Maurice

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Speaker 4: and I was about eighty nine years old. We were

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Speaker 4: going to Rose Elementary School and and singing and church

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Speaker 4: on Sunday. That was the real experience of learning how

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Speaker 4: to feel good about doing that in front of people.

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Speaker 1: And you were born in Memphis, Tennessee.

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Speaker 4: I was born at two ninety Virginia Street, uh, up

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Speaker 4: against a building called Coal Manufacturing Company, which was the

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Speaker 4: last last house at the bottom of the hill. When

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Speaker 4: it rained, water would roll down the hill and up

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Speaker 4: against that that tin building and very close to going

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Speaker 4: into our home. And the next door neighbor was the

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Speaker 4: cunning Hams, which which Carl was the drumming and right

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Speaker 4: up going up the hill was Maurice and that was

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Speaker 4: it right there.

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Speaker 1: Like I know, a lot of legends were born in Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Aretha Franklin was born in Memphis, was she not?

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Speaker 4: She was, Yes, she was. Her father preached Reverend Franklin

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Speaker 4: preached my father's funeral, you know, at Great Whitstone Baptist Church. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I first when I told Reapa that years later, she

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Speaker 4: just blew her away because she had recorded I Take

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Speaker 4: what I Want one of the compositions bizic and I

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Speaker 4: And I told then she just blew her away. Yeah. Yes,

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Speaker 4: she was born in Memphis, tennes Cee, right there, Fourth Street.

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Speaker 1: So just tell me, like the general, like, why is

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Speaker 1: that town so musical?

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Speaker 4: Well, there, in nineteen forty seven forty eight, there was

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Speaker 4: a radio the first black radio station in the country

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Speaker 4: was WDA in Memphis, Tennessee. And the fact that before

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Speaker 4: that all of the music you heard was you know,

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Speaker 4: the pop favorite kind kind of vibe. And so the

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Speaker 4: energy for the originality and I'm going to speak for

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Speaker 4: in just a second didn't come to bear until WDA

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Speaker 4: started playing all of those amazingly emotional, connecting music by

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Speaker 4: black artists. And the one thing that happened that was

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Speaker 4: really really meaningful and impactful on young kids during that

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Speaker 4: time was the individuality of artists or artists. You know,

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Speaker 4: back then you had a four piece rhythm based drums,

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Speaker 4: guitar and keys, and so in order for that kind

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Speaker 4: of magic to happen in a unique kind of way,

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Speaker 4: artists that you will listening to on the radio, one

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Speaker 4: thing that is a he had. One thing that really

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Speaker 4: manifested itself to you was the individuality of artists. You

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Speaker 4: listened to Chuck Berry and what he was doing with

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Speaker 4: the guitar and his rhythm essens of how he was

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Speaker 4: doing what he was doing, even though he had a

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Speaker 4: rhythm of tumblment, but the focus was his guitar playing.

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Speaker 4: And you listened to Little Richard and his piano playing

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Speaker 4: and what he was doing. The individuality, in addition to

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Speaker 4: his persona as a singer, was was his personality. Fat's

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Speaker 4: Dombao with the same piano playing. The individuality of Fats

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Speaker 4: was the Fats y, So you were you were able

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Speaker 4: Jackie Wilson with the range and the magic in his

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Speaker 4: tones and things you were looking at as a youngster,

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Speaker 4: those kind of impressions that were in turn motivating you

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Speaker 4: to understand that the magic happened through music. Was trying

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Speaker 4: to find something that identified you and your uniqueness, and

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Speaker 4: so starting from that kind of foundation, all of us

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Speaker 4: started trying to find that magic. So when you mentioned

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Speaker 4: Al Jackson, his father was a musician and a drummer,

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Speaker 4: but L started finding his own niche out of an

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Speaker 4: individualistic way for himself. And by the time we go

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Speaker 4: to Stacks with the slope floor in the room, the

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Speaker 4: Stacks was an old movie theater and the floor was sloping.

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Speaker 4: We'd get in there during our records. L would be

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Speaker 4: at the bottom of the floor. We'd be doing the

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Speaker 4: vocal off the top of the floor with Sam and

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Speaker 4: Dave or Johnny Taylor, Aby King or whoever. Isaac would

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Speaker 4: be the mid floor and Steve would be a little

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Speaker 4: higher than that. L heard of the lake when he

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Speaker 4: would play and his pocket was feeling where the true

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Speaker 4: essence of the tempo was with that laid back kind

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Speaker 4: of essence that was coming throughout the room. And so

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Speaker 4: but everybody would work to find the individuality because of

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Speaker 4: the motivation of the music that we was hearing coming

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Speaker 4: from WDA. Even with the BD King before he blew up,

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Speaker 4: you know, there was that magic that he was finding

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Speaker 4: it within himself. Bobby Blue Blind and Johnny A's and

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Speaker 4: all these people had their own persona of which was

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Speaker 4: also in turn motivating us with aspirations to do music

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Speaker 4: to try to find that for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I have you now because you know, even

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Speaker 1: though it's been kind of six months since the release

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Speaker 1: of the movie. As a director, Baz Luhrmann kind of

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Speaker 1: has us at arm's length a little bit with his

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Speaker 1: You know, it's when you make Hollywood biopics, it's either like,

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Speaker 1: did these facts really happen? Or is this a Hollywood tale?

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Speaker 1: And I want to believe the Elvis movie, but I

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Speaker 1: got to hear from someone that was at least in proximity.

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Speaker 1: The way they portrayed it was like, you know, he

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Speaker 1: was just hanging around the way amongst the brothers and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that a fact or was that more

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Speaker 1: embellishing beers.

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Speaker 4: Lhermann came to Limpus and asked if he could talk

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Speaker 4: to me, So he came to my studio Memphis. The

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Speaker 4: reason he came to the studio in Memphis because A

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Speaker 4: did a special called The Searcher on Elvis Presley. And

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Speaker 4: if you saw the Searcher, which they showed it for

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Speaker 4: a couple of days in a row, and it was

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Speaker 4: a few years ago, then you saw me talking about

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Speaker 4: Elvis on that special. The reason that I was able

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Speaker 4: to talk about elverscouse when I was a kid walking

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Speaker 4: up from the Virginia Street where I was born, up

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Speaker 4: to Beale Street, which wasn't that very far. Maurice did

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Speaker 4: the same thing. We would see people because we were

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Speaker 4: not able to go in the clubs or anything like.

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Speaker 4: We would just walk up the street and just see people.

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Speaker 4: I was a poor kid, like I said, from a

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Speaker 4: large family. My dad was died when I was two

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Speaker 4: years old, and so I had a little bit of

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Speaker 4: freedom of beautiful, amazing mother. So I was able to

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Speaker 4: go and just with these aspirations that want to do music,

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Speaker 4: to get those that kind of vibe. And so there

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Speaker 4: was this young kid white kid hanging around the street.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know it was Elvis Presley or anything like that,

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Speaker 4: nothing akin to that. But I've found out that that well,

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Speaker 4: in fact, Elvis the white boy that wanted to sing black.

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Speaker 4: And so what I did was I really told bears

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Speaker 4: where Elvis got the vine from. Elvis got divine from

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Speaker 4: Roy Hamilton. And if you saw the movie The Search It,

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Speaker 4: the reason that the name Roy Hamilton is mentioned in

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Speaker 4: the movie is because I told him that's where it

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Speaker 4: came from. Otis Blackwell, who was the writer who didn't

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Speaker 4: get all of the money and certainly didn't get all

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Speaker 4: this his writer credit, was a writer of so much

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Speaker 4: of the Elvis still and if you listen to Otis

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Speaker 4: if he was alive, you see where Oldis also got

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Speaker 4: it from. But but Roy Hamilton, the flavor and the

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Speaker 4: nuances of Elvers singing came from Roy Hamilton. Check us

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Speaker 4: out of some of Mieri to ketlog.

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Speaker 1: I used to Yeah, I used to listen to I

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Speaker 1: think Isaac covered uh don't let right, yes, right. So

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Speaker 1: my dad, my dad used to play the Roy Hamilton version.

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Speaker 1: I always thought that was Elvis. The turntable was too

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Speaker 1: high for me to see like what was on the label?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, for the longest I thought that was

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Speaker 1: an Elvis Presley song.

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Speaker 4: So what with this being straight up in real there

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Speaker 4: was an authenticity about Elvis' comment being influenced by black

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Speaker 4: artists and that that was in fact true. Elvis would

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Speaker 4: come go to it was an event that wd I

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Speaker 4: would hold in Memphis called the Good Real Review. Elvis

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Speaker 4: would show backstage at the Goody Review. There are pictures

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Speaker 4: of Elvis with Rufus Thomas and but that's real now.

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Speaker 2: So was he the only white gentleman to do that?

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Speaker 2: Is that why I feel so special? Because he would

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Speaker 2: just by himself not listen.

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Speaker 4: The individuality of black talents was a template that American

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Speaker 4: used to break talents like that them finding ways to

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Speaker 4: replicate some abnuances of black talents was the cornerstone which

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Speaker 4: became whatever you want to call it, even up into

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Speaker 4: this day. So no, no, he was not. He was

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Speaker 4: not the only.

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Speaker 2: One, and not the first I'm guessing either, just the

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Speaker 2: maybe the most talented.

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Speaker 4: He just blew up, but he know he was. There

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Speaker 4: was so much magic happening on Beal Street. This is

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Speaker 4: famous fear the Street Memphis. A lot of poor people,

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Speaker 4: but people having a good time inside of what they

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Speaker 4: had to deal with, and that was the place they

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Speaker 4: would go to do it. And there were clubs and

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Speaker 4: the like on that street. That was magic. And like

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Speaker 4: I said, the individuality of people being proud of who

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Speaker 4: they were would manifest itself, not only in the way

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Speaker 4: people would perform on stages, but even the way a

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Speaker 4: guy who may have been working on the garment shop

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Speaker 4: were dressed for the weekend, just be having a good

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Speaker 4: time in his own world. In the bias and the

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Speaker 4: racism that was going on in that prevent time, you

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Speaker 4: could not kill the spirit of a people, and that

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Speaker 4: was what it was. And then there was some folks

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Speaker 4: lock in the elvis would come and hang around that

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Speaker 4: vibe and that spirit, and obviously we eventually found out

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Speaker 4: what it ended up being for.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you, so, you know, having come

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Speaker 1: of age in the mid seventies early eighties, I'll say

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Speaker 1: that you know your average soul singer is pretty much

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Speaker 1: at this point like emulating Stevie Wonder like with this

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Speaker 1: soulful voice and whatnot. And so you know, I've I've,

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Speaker 1: of course, because I wasn't born during the time when

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Speaker 1: Elvis first came out, I didn't know for sand like,

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Speaker 1: so everything I learned was, you know, sort of like

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Speaker 1: later in my life. And I always knew, you know,

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Speaker 1: that the theory of like, you know, if I could

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Speaker 1: find a white boy that sings like a black guy,

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Speaker 1: I'll make a billion dollars from you know, Colonel Tom

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Speaker 1: Parker saying that. But like, in your opinion, was Elvis's

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Speaker 1: voice in your opinion as a true blue Memphis in

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Speaker 1: that in that era, was that the actual voice of

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Speaker 1: a black guy? Like, was it if you were to

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Speaker 1: put him more, was it sort of.

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Speaker 3: Like Bobby Carwell, well, yeah, I know I agree with

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Speaker 3: the Roy Hamilton thing, But is that.

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Speaker 1: Sort of snarling thing that was gonna was that the

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Speaker 1: actual voice of because if I'm thinking of that time period,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking more like Ray Charles and whatnot. But is

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Speaker 1: it just was it just typical for black singers to

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Speaker 1: have that sort of voice that those hasn't No, No,

305
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Speaker 1: you got to give him a little bit of him

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Speaker 1: finding what the black brother couldn't give him.

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Speaker 4: That's the whiteness of who he was. And so the

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Speaker 4: nuance is that that gave him a little bit of

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Speaker 4: a torch came out of him not being able to

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Speaker 4: replicate with the trueness of what all these talents were.

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Speaker 4: And you consider what Otis was doing. Otis Blackwell, who

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Speaker 4: wrote the songs I wish you could hurt. I met

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Speaker 4: this brother, and knowing that there were a lot of

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Speaker 4: credits that were given to Elvis that I knew Elvis

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Speaker 4: didn't write the songs with him, But he's written the

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Speaker 4: songs with Otis black Well, things that I heard, those

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Speaker 4: kinds of things. But you can listen to him, and

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Speaker 4: you can hear this guy saying, and you can say,

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Speaker 4: Evers got some of that from him. Ever's got some

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Speaker 4: of that from Roy. Evers got some of that from him,

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Speaker 4: And so he was able to put those things together.

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Speaker 4: But I also found a niche that gave you a

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Speaker 4: little bit of of what he was about as well.

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Speaker 4: And it became a combination of those things. But it

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Speaker 4: was magnified by the uniqueness of the black contribution.

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Speaker 2: He grew from fast forward justin.

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Speaker 4: Without a doubt, right, You know. The interesting being if

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Speaker 4: you think about the seventies and before then, listen, Teddy

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Speaker 4: was Teddy, Otis was Otis. Johnny Taylor was Johnny Albert

330
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Speaker 4: who couldn't read, and we would whisper the lyrics. I

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Speaker 4: would be on the mic when he was singing, say

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Speaker 4: the line before he was singing. But the uniqueness of

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Speaker 4: Albert planning to get to us hitting the line. The

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Speaker 4: uniqueness of Albott was inside of his personality as avert.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, only he to do those kinds of things.

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Speaker 4: You give Johnny Taylor the melody that Isaaca and I

337
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Speaker 4: we wrote out, got to Love Somebody's Baby because somebody

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Speaker 4: been loving mine. Now we wrote the song, and David

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Speaker 4: wrote a song into teachers. When Johnny sang the song,

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Speaker 4: the individuality of Johnny took it to another another kind

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Speaker 4: of a blue song, little Bluebird. We wrote that that

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Speaker 4: would listen to it. The individual reality of the artists,

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Speaker 4: even with the Hazen Porter song, would take it to

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Speaker 4: the persona that was the inside of their uniqueness. And

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Speaker 4: then by the time we get the Sam and David,

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Speaker 4: we're doing the church thing, which is what we're doing.

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Speaker 4: The individual of paid with the combination of David and

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Speaker 4: I would direct them like a choir. If you listen,

349
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Speaker 4: I think you you're gonna hear me holler.

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Speaker 6: At the very intro, I thank you because I make

351
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Speaker 6: the mistake and holler. We kept their take, But that's

352
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Speaker 6: because I'm on the other side of the mic directing them.

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Speaker 6: But I cannot give them the individuality that brings out

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Speaker 6: the uniqueness of what they were, and it became an

355
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Speaker 6: identity thing because they were focused on making affairs and

356
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Speaker 6: so that's what all of those are. So even before Stevee,

357
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Speaker 6: the individuality that ultimately ended up being Stevie grew out

358
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Speaker 6: of some of the influences that he heard as a youngster.

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Speaker 4: Because the first record I heard on Stevin Fingertips, I

360
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Speaker 4: didn't hear Stephen One like Stevie Wonder, you know, on

361
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Speaker 4: I heard Steven Wander like Stevie Wonder because he stopped

362
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Speaker 4: perfecting the uniqueness that was him and he magnified it.

363
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Speaker 4: And then everybody says, it's to your point, Chris, start

364
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Speaker 4: trying to follow that template. But those who followed the

365
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Speaker 4: temple never got to the strength that Steed had.

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Speaker 1: I see, I see class for you. When do you

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Speaker 1: sort of credit the moment that you started your mission

368
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Speaker 1: like you're not You're come to Jesus moment with music,

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Speaker 1: but that this was something that you professionally wanted to pursue.

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Speaker 4: I was, how real should I be with this?

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Speaker 1: I'll super real good.

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Speaker 4: I was so so poor, from a family of twelve

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Speaker 4: with an outdoor toilet in Memphis. I told you who

374
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Speaker 4: my neighbors were, and we all were that way. Maurice

375
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Speaker 4: and I moved from where we were to a housing

376
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Speaker 4: project called them On Gardens at the same time, which

377
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Speaker 4: was a housemand I just felt that I had to

378
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Speaker 4: find a way to do this thing. I thought I

379
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 4: was a singer to do this thing, and I was

380
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Speaker 4: trying to find an identity and didn't know where that was.

381
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Speaker 4: And so here's a kid working at a grocery store,

382
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Speaker 4: just getting ready to graduate from high school from Booker T.

383
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Speaker 4: Washington High School, where Maurice White and I graduated in

384
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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty one from. And I'm working across the street

385
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Speaker 4: from this movie theater, which was Satellite Records. And I

386
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 4: would go over there because there was a little record

387
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Speaker 4: shop there, and I had no money to buy the records.

388
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Speaker 4: But there was a lady inside of there who said

389
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Speaker 4: they had a recording company and they had a label.

390
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Speaker 4: Asked her about it, so they said, we record country artists.

391
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Speaker 4: So I said, well, could you audition me, would you

392
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Speaker 4: listen to me? She said, well, you can talk to

393
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Speaker 4: my brother, but we just RECALLD country. So I went

394
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Speaker 4: in there and I talked to Jim Stewart, who didn't

395
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Speaker 4: want to to listen to me or anything such as that.

396
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Speaker 4: He had a guy working with him by the name

397
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Speaker 4: of Chips Moman. If you google the name Chips Moman.

398
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Speaker 4: He became legendary later on, but he was the guy

399
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Speaker 4: that was working with Jim Stewart. Before there was no Snacks,

400
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 4: it was called Satellite Records, And so I got the

401
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Speaker 4: audition there and froze in the room on the audition,

402
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 4: but I bought to them. I got some of my

403
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 4: classmates to perform on it for me. I got Booker T.

404
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 4: Jones to play baritone horn on the demo. I got

405
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Speaker 4: Andrew Love to play tennis sacks on the demo. I

406
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 4: got William Bell the same background along with James Austin

407
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Speaker 4: on the demo. Wheniam Bail became yes and my demo

408
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 4: was a song original song because he asked me did

409
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Speaker 4: I have it? Did I write songs? I told him yeah,

410
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Speaker 4: I didn't have any. He asked me, well, did I

411
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 4: have a band? I told him yeah, I didn't have one,

412
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Speaker 4: and so he had two artists, Nick Charles and Charles

413
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Speaker 4: Hines Country. I convinced him to let me do an audition.

414
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Speaker 4: I then got the guys together to do the audition

415
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Speaker 4: with me and froze on the demo and flopped. It

416
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 4: didn't work for me. But Jim Stewart met booker T. Jones,

417
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: who he used to play baritone on Rufus Thomas record

418
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 4: William Ball. He recorded you don't miss your water to

419
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Speaker 4: your well, run try and and the rest is history.

420
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Speaker 4: I mean, it's so. What it showed me was that

421
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 4: I had a long way to go, and I started

422
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 4: trying to find out who I really was if I

423
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 4: wanted to be this, and I realized that I couldn't

424
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: be the artist. I tried a couple of other records.

425
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Speaker 4: I recorded for Savoy Records Little David, I recorded with

426
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 4: Willie Mitchell, Kenny Kane. Yes, it's on Savoy Records.

427
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Speaker 1: I didn't know that was the Savoy subsidiary.

428
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Speaker 4: Really, no, no, No, Savoy was different. The world wasn't

429
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 4: Stax Records. Okay, that's that's for me, out hustling, trying

430
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 4: to trying to find.

431
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Speaker 1: A panthay, I get it.

432
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Speaker 4: That's that's But so in trying to do that, I

433
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 4: get with this guy who we used to sing on

434
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: talent shows at the Palace, stayed on Beale Street, by

435
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 4: the name of Isaac Hayes. So Isaac and I started talking.

436
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 4: I said, this form a writing team. Now to come

437
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 4: to Jesus. Moment was me figuring that if I'm gonna

438
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 4: get in the music business, I'd already failed with the

439
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 4: audition trying to sing. But I bought this guy all

440
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 4: this amazing talent, and so I didn't get right in.

441
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 4: I got with Isaac and we formed a label called

442
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 4: Genie Records. And there's a record on a guy by

443
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 4: the name of Homer Banks called Little Lady of Stone

444
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 4: And ain't that a Lot of Love? If you find

445
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 4: that record, That's a record that I did with Isaac

446
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 4: before Stax Records. Then I went and Convissium Stewart to

447
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 4: give me an opportunity as a writer. I became the

448
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 4: first staff writer for Stax Records, given a six month trial.

449
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 4: In the rest of his history, I started building the

450
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 4: writing staff and all of that. What year was that,

451
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 4: I want to say it's nineteen sixty three, but I

452
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: could be slightly slightly off because I was there in

453
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty one. There's a record called The Life I

454
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 4: Live on Barbara Stevens Stead that I did with Marvel Thomas.

455
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: Was before even Isaac and I really connected, So it

456
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 4: was like I was hustling.

457
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: You mentioned Willie Mitchell. What was it like working with

458
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: him at that time?

459
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 4: Willie Mitchell was was was working with a company but

460
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 4: of High Records, that was working with London as a distributor,

461
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 4: and WILLI was not on the inner loop of High Records.

462
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 4: WILLI was working with a guy by the name a

463
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 4: white guy by the name of Ray Harris, and they

464
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: didn't really realize what Willie Mitchell was. And so I

465
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 4: found a way to convince them to let me make

466
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 4: a record there. And so Willie and I wrote a

467
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 4: song you can google it called Practice makes Perfect you'll

468
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 4: see written by Porter Mitchell. That's Willie and I and

469
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 4: I'm Kenny Kine is David Porter. But this is before

470
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 4: they allowed Willy to be Willie and Ray Harris got

471
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 4: out of their way and Willy got the opportunity with

472
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 4: some kind of deal. He worked with Joe Koogie and

473
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 4: Nick Pacy and those guys and became the guy that

474
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 4: Royal Studio became and High Records became. The rest is

475
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 4: hissue with Willie Mitchell. That's my comment to Jesus. Moment

476
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 4: of finding that writing was my in road defining a

477
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 4: path for this.

478
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: So was it mostly a trial by fire in terms

479
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: of you know, even with me, like with my musical education,

480
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: a lot of my knowledge of like the first year

481
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: that I came to a studio was more or less

482
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: like what does this do? What does this do? And

483
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: you know I didn't. No one told me about sixteen

484
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: bar structures and you know, how to find my own sound.

485
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: So you know, a lot of my education of music

486
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: production just came from like the first three years of

487
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: trying to see what works and whatnot. But how did

488
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: these people know to trust you? If you don't was

489
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: expected for you to like be accredited songwriters and have

490
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: experience of like writing out charts and knowing arrangements and

491
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: all those things, or you just are you singing to

492
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: each band members like this is what you do?

493
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 4: Or yes, all of that, but we didn't do Just

494
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 4: Isaac Hayes did not write music. David Porter didn't either, No,

495
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: he didn't, and so we went through the whole process

496
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 4: of head arrangements. The great artists, the greatest creative that

497
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 4: was Otis Ready. If you were able to be in

498
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 4: a studio with Otis reading during a session, you would

499
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: marvel at how he would come up with the bassline,

500
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 4: the horn patterns, the guitar direction for Steve to play

501
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: out on those records. Isaac and I were motivated from

502
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 4: the church. We realized that Motoon had to straightforth beat

503
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 4: with these beautiful melodies on the top of that, and

504
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 4: it was amazing how they did that. But we also realized,

505
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 4: because we talked strategically about how we were going to

506
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: find a path inside of this industry to do this,

507
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: we realized that if we want to have an impact,

508
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: we had to find an identity. We had records before

509
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 4: we did the Sam and Dave, there are quite a

510
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: few of those records, but we were trying to find

511
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 4: the adentity way for us to be affected, and we

512
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 4: realized that that opportunity came from the spirituality of the

513
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 4: church on the lower end of things, and so we

514
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: started focusing on the bass, drums, guitar lines rather than

515
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: the straight four kind of things, and that's why they

516
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: became patterns inside of all of the songs that we

517
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: were doing. But those patterns didn't come from us writing

518
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 4: a chart for that came from us giving the musician

519
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 4: the actual patterns. Hold On I'm Coming a perfect example

520
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 4: that the drum beat on hold On I'm Coming did

521
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 4: not come about with us just starting to sing and

522
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 4: they start playing No. I went to Alice and I

523
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 4: remember the record get out on the Life Woman by leaving,

524
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 4: may that beat play that beat? I said, Chick, that

525
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: that's the beat that we want. Hold On I'm Coming.

526
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: Isaac had the horn, just a horn lick on that.

527
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 4: That lick it put that down two or three weeks

528
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 4: before we even thought about hold On I'm Coming. Hold

529
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: On I'm Coming came one night late. We were we

530
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 4: left a club after we were jamming, went to the

531
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 4: studio by two thirty night. I went to the restroom.

532
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 4: Isaac was trying to get me the hurry out of

533
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 4: the restroom. I said, hold On I'm coming there and

534
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 4: I said, God, it came out of the room. Twenty

535
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 4: minutes later we wrote hold On I'm Coming. The drum

536
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: pattern we did all.

537
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: That, that's the movie story, that's the God's true.

538
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 4: It is the deal.

539
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: I've already see that acted out in the whole dramatic trail.

540
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 4: The y Isaac of Stacks Records happened because of the

541
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: inner spirits inside of the creative juices that came not

542
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: from somebody doing sitting down and writing a charge for me,

543
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 4: but somebody giving people. The essence of of whether the

544
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 4: songs were in the end of his was only magnified

545
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 4: through that.

546
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: Okay, then I gotta ask you this question. Okay, you

547
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: guys have this like ten minute song on presenting Isaac

548
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: Hayes called I Want to Make Love to You, and

549
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: it is one of the most ambitious arrangements I've ever heard.

550
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: It's like part jazz, part blues, part serious soul, part comedy.

551
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: But there's so many parts to this song. So if

552
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: it's not notated, like how for these like extravagant arrangements

553
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: that you guys are doing, because it's not just like

554
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: here's the A part, here's the B part, here's the

555
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: A part, here's the B part, here's the code of

556
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: Like you guys are writing these like extravagant arrangements, like

557
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: how are they able to maintain that memory of what

558
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: to do? If you guys aren't notating that stuff.

559
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: Well, first, Plase I didn't produce presenting Isaac Hayes.

560
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: Okay, right, but let me tell.

561
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: You, because Isaac and I worked for as from the core,

562
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 4: I can tell you how the things that the core

563
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 4: foundation of all of the records was inside of the

564
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 4: base patterns. Now there was chance done on the up

565
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: end of the charte. We Isaac used and huns we'd

566
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 4: used al warn free. I mean, we use cats to

567
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: put the orchestration on the top. But that's also coming

568
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 4: out of Isaac's head. That's not some guy. He given

569
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: the track to it said okay, create the parts. That's

570
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: not how that happened. But because there was such an

571
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 4: authenticity of remembering things, all of the wrecks from hold

572
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 4: on them coming to soul man, you don't know those

573
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 4: are things that of course, the records was to two

574
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 4: minutes forty seconds long. Your point is, well, how are

575
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: you gonna do this on a long, long, long lung record. Well,

576
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 4: on a long, long, long lung record. If you were

577
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 4: inside of the stacks room and you know everybody standing

578
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 4: up looking at Isaac, and Isaac is directing and curing

579
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: on the parts, the guys are right down four bars here,

580
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 4: eight bars here, and the cats would know if you

581
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 4: hold up his hand, it's the next it's the next pense,

582
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: it's the next pass, whatever it was gonna be. So

583
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 4: I wasn't in the room when he was doing it,

584
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: but I'm sure that the same kind of processes that

585
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 4: I did on the victim of the joke abb of

586
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 4: what you right, the same thing, because that's what I did.

587
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: So what are Al Bell's basic thoughts when you guys,

588
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: and I'm going back to stacks in the sixties, but

589
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like, when this turns into enterprise and

590
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: you guys are making serious albums, what are Al Bell's

591
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 1: thoughts when some of these album cuts are seven minutes,

592
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: thirteen minutes, twenty two minutes.

593
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: Not right friendly at all.

594
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: That's well, I know that the age of FM radio

595
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,719
Speaker 1: was sort of like we play longer cuts when at

596
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: least you know, the first five years of the seventies,

597
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: But I mean, you guys were almost like the anti Motown,

598
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: because I know Motown's whole thing was like has to

599
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: be three minutes and thirty seconds and easily digestible, and

600
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: so was that by design or.

601
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 4: But That's an amazing question, because the truth needs to

602
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: be told. Isaac was the first to do the extended

603
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: creating of the song the very first. The way that

604
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 4: happened was al Ball now was being in control because

605
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: Stacks all of the masters that Stax had recorded, Atlantic

606
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 4: got those because Jim Stood had signed up one of

607
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: his funny contracts and didn't realize they'd given the catalog away.

608
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 4: Then Albert l got into power control of the company

609
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: and ultimately end up owning the company. And so what

610
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 4: L did was in order for us to get back

611
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: in the mood in the competitive way, said, listen, we

612
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: got to create product and get an abundant of product

613
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 4: to get out there. He encouraged Isaac to do the album.

614
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 4: He encouraged easy going, Isaac said, because we were already

615
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 4: in the power position. Isaac said, if I'm going to

616
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 4: do it, I got to do what I feel I

617
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: want to do. L had no idea that isa was

618
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 4: gonna take it there, because Isaac always was influenced got

619
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 4: jazz cats. I mean he always, but that wasn't not

620
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 4: the kind of records that we were doing. So when

621
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 4: he got the freedom to do it the way he wanted,

622
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: to do it. We used to go to the club

623
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 4: called Club La Run. We would go there and just

624
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: jam before we'd go back to the studio. One night

625
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: we were jamming and singing some stuff at the club

626
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 4: to Run when something is Wrong with My Baby and

627
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: some of the other songs that we had written and

628
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 4: that they were popular songs we singing, and Isaac went

629
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 4: went into a vibe with the sustained thing on the

630
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: Hammibe three organ that was there and start talking and

631
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 4: he would start talking, and the message was on a

632
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 4: song by Glenn Cammell called by the time I get

633
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 4: to Phoenix, and Isaac started talking with me standing up

634
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 4: on the stage with him, and I know what the

635
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 4: heck he's doing, and him start and they were getting

636
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 4: in to listen to him, and he just start making

637
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 4: it longer and longer, and it came. He didn't have

638
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 4: it ridden out. It came to him in the natural

639
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 4: way that these lines I'm telling you, and the horn

640
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: Patterson came and he talked the whole thing out and

641
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 4: hit By the time I get the Phoenix with the

642
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: beat three loud and whatever, and the cats were just

643
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 4: trying to follow him, which they did, and by the

644
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 4: time he got the opportunity to record and told al

645
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 4: al on a second because presenting Heinsac Hayes the album

646
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 4: did not really work. On the second he told me

647
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 4: to do it again. Honestly, I want to really do

648
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 4: it the way I want to do it. And that's

649
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 4: why there are four tunes on that album. And the

650
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 4: first motivation was that Phoenix thing that we did at

651
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 4: the club I run and that was what nineteen minutes

652
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: long as something.

653
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: Would tape ever run out, would would tape run out

654
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: at all?

655
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 4: Well, that didn't know that, but you know, Isaac would

656
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 4: we would have been in the studio jam and we

657
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 4: end up with a lot of tracks that would in

658
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 4: a writing songs off but later on just by the

659
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: extended park that we didn't use on the record. So

660
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 4: so cats would know that that and by the time

661
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 4: I get the Phoenix case that had to be a

662
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 4: new real to tape. Cats would know that he was

663
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 4: going to do extended versus they just did not know

664
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 4: it's going to be that law. So I don't know.

665
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 4: I wasn't in the room mothetics.

666
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: But okay, so can you explain, especially like with with

667
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: the tension that's happening in the mid to late sixties,

668
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: especially in the civil rights movement? How was it socially,

669
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: especially with you know cats like uh, you know, Donald

670
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: Duck Dunn, Steve Cropper, like because you know the sound

671
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: of stacks even though it's gut bunkeet soul, gut bucket

672
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: funk like this, this is an integrated, intersectional kind of

673
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: organization with men and women, black and white, that sort

674
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: of thing. So how easy was it navigating especially with

675
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: sort of I guess culminating to King's assassination Like in Memphis?

676
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: What is the social atmosphere of these white musicians and

677
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: black musicians playing together?

678
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: Like what's a work dinner looked like?

679
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: Inside the street? Well, to a question, if I think

680
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 4: I understand correct, this is this is the interesting thing

681
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: about that period. Racism was still rapid during that period.

682
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 4: It was still there, but because Stewart was smart enough

683
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 4: to see that the black contribution of talents were far

684
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: exceeding where Steve was and Dunk was. But these were

685
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 4: casts that were able to integrate, for lack of a

686
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 4: better word, into the Bible what we were doing because

687
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 4: they were able to listen to where we were coming from.

688
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 4: And it was it was showed that the possibility of

689
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 4: seriously making some money until they were there was a

690
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 4: willingness to follow the lead of the black talents. And

691
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 4: when I say that, when you could side, there's Booker T.

692
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: Jones in that in that combination of talent we called

693
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 4: it the Big Six. That was Al Jackson Junr in

694
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 4: that combination of talent. That was Isaac Hayes in a

695
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 4: combination of talents. That was David Porter in the cumbination

696
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 4: of talents. And here is Steve and Duck. And the

697
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: leading parts was either coming from Booker or from Isaac,

698
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 4: or from I or from Al. As relates to where

699
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 4: a lot of the originality come from. The abilities to

700
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 4: adapt and to be affecting with it was coming out

701
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 4: of the rhythmic treaties that Croper would bring to many

702
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 4: of the songs, and Duck would was amazing at remembery

703
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 4: and containing patterns and giving you the right kunt of imagy.

704
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 2: For that, Like what about once y'all left the studio,

705
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: Because like you said, y'all were the leaders in the individualities,

706
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: but y'all couldn't eat in the same places, stay in

707
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: the same places, And that that.

708
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 4: Is so so true. And then we didn't make a

709
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 4: norm of that. They would go to a place called

710
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 4: the Four Way Grill with us, which was a black

711
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: restaurant on the Mississippi Walker. And when we wanted to

712
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 4: really eat together, we would go to the Four Way Grill.

713
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: And the Four Way Grill, if you read the history

714
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 4: of it, that was all also the place where doctor

715
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 4: King would go. That's also a place where Jesse Jackson

716
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: would go. At the front of the Four Way is

717
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 4: the door people would come in from the street, but

718
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 4: they had a back entrance at the back of the doors.

719
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 4: James Brown and a lot of foo. We would go

720
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 4: in the back door there and we would eat some

721
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 4: of the best soul for wos you ever want to have.

722
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: But that was a place when we would do I

723
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 4: was a vocalist for Boogleton MG's on the road playing

724
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 4: in the College Circuit. To your point, we'd get in

725
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 4: the car. We did this is Bookert and mgs well,

726
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 4: we do sessions with we worked at the College Circum

727
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 4: On the weekend, we'd get in the car and go

728
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 4: play gigs and we had a lot of This is

729
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: where we could not get in the hotel in a

730
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 4: real comfortable kind of way we'd go and play the

731
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: gig on the College State, come back and be in

732
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 4: the studio on Monday. So it wasn't It wasn't the

733
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 4: kind of thing where you'd see a lot of let's

734
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: go out and hang out together. There were black clubs

735
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 4: and they were white clubs, and that was still going

736
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 4: on in the mephis by the time you went into

737
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: the stacks rooms to do the work. It was a

738
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 4: unity there, but it was also a willingness to follow

739
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 4: the lead of the black talents who was really making

740
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 4: the thing. And that's why the magic came from an

741
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 4: Otis Rennie, who showed everybody what all of that meant

742
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 4: what I just said, because there was no one who

743
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: could do it to the degree that Otis could do it.

744
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: Did you personally feel some sort of way when like

745
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: your sound and your formula are being used by other

746
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: memphis Like in other words, like if you were to

747
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: if anyone were to listen to like Let's Stay Together, Yeah,

748
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: you know, the sound of the brass band in the

749
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: front and the basic gut bucket groove of that song.

750
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: You know, someone to say to me like, oh, that's

751
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: probably Stax Records or something like that, and you know,

752
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: even though you guys are in proximity of each other

753
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: in terms of mileage, Like I'm certain that Willie and

754
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: his organization were way different. Might be like one or

755
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: two musicians that are the same. Are you guys feeling

756
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: some sort of way that, like the sound that you

757
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: helped make the Blueprint Architects is sort of now being

758
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: not even outside of Memphis, because I'm certain that you know,

759
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: there's the Cats and Muscle Souls are also I'm thinking

760
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: that they too, are you know, Memphis based and whatnot, Like,

761
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: especially with the work they were doing the Refit like,

762
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: did you feel some sort of way when your sound

763
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: is sort of like identified with that whole region but

764
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: some of those things that you had nothing to do with,

765
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: it just sounds like you did well.

766
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 4: The beautiful thing about it is that we have so

767
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 4: many artists that we had to use other rooms to

768
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 4: do that. The reason that Muscle Shows sound became revered

769
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 4: as it did was because we sent so many artists there,

770
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 4: so many many artists there.

771
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 1: How far was Muscle Souls from Memphis.

772
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 4: Maybe a little bit more to our drive? Okay, yeah, yeah,

773
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 4: I mean I don't know if you're familiar with the

774
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 4: album that I do that that has the victim of

775
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 4: the joke, the song the Masquerade is over?

776
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: Wait time out? All right, Okay, are you really asking

777
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: us right now? We know I'm afraid the Masquerade is over?

778
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 4: But but but that quest that's a cute kind of

779
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 4: things you mentioned earlier about hair stuff. That's one of

780
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 4: those kinds of things. I had a mic going around

781
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: room with the head, says, going in the harmon license

782
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 4: to cast the play. But but but that's also one

783
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 4: of the dumbest mistakes I made because the second half

784
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: of it, which has nothing at all to do with

785
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: the original song which I was given, the head arranged

786
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: to it, and that's where all the samples came from.

787
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 4: Do you know how many millions of dollars I gave

788
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: away with that? All of those those how many? But

789
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: that's no story. But but but h so we're.

790
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: Gonna ask about that too.

791
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 4: But but but but uh but Muscle Shows was so

792
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 4: many ars. Johnny Taylor, the staple singers color the emotions

793
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 4: with so many that we we went to the room

794
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 4: in what Willie was doing over it high that's Andrew

795
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: Love and Wayne Jackson the horn section. A lot of

796
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 4: the patterns, and I can show you some patterns that

797
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: the guys are and forgot that we already did the

798
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 4: patterns on the track over there, and they got into

799
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 4: whatever on the al track, and there's a line that

800
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 4: we did on Man, what the heck got so But

801
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 4: but we were we were so so unified and and

802
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 4: the magic that was happening out of Memphis. There was

803
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: no animosity or anger toward what WILLI was doing, nor

804
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 4: was that coming from willly what we were doing. We

805
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: were just simply happy that all of the stuff was connected.

806
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 4: And then that there was magic with our Green. The

807
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 4: magic with our Green was reminiscent of the magic that

808
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 4: we felt when we lost over this ringing. So there

809
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 4: was a joe and the happiness. And then when Willie

810
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 4: come up with a record that stupid great like I

811
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: can't stand the rain, I mean just great, great, great,

812
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 4: great music. So there was there was no It was

813
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 4: in a lot. Some of the players were the same.

814
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 4: It was that kind of spirit in Memphis during that time.

815
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: At any point was Al Green ever going to go

816
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: to your direction to stacks at any point or just

817
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: he immediately went to high.

818
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 4: No, No, WILLI.

819
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: WILLI discovered l but did you know about him before

820
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 1: Willie discovered him?

821
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: No, No, I don't think it was nobody. No, that

822
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: was Willie. Willie. WILLI heard something in him and and

823
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: took him to a space L didn't believe he was.

824
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 4: Al was a hard singer. WILLI forced him to find

825
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 4: the identity thing that I was talking about. WILLI forced

826
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 4: L to find that thing, that thing for am.

827
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 3: The way he's singing on his first album is Backup Train.

828
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 4: Yes, will listen to the vamp of Love and Happiness,

829
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 4: and you'll see that's where Al really is. Willy control

830
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 4: how L found himself. And then when Al really found himself,

831
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 4: then R magnified the persona what that should be. And

832
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 4: that's why some of those vocals that he would do

833
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 4: on those songs were just crazy, because he was having

834
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 4: so much fun in discovering new nonsense inside of what

835
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 4: he was doing that was even fresher than he even imagine.

836
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: I would imagine. He became unbelievable. The same thing was

837
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 4: happening with Otis as well, Johnny Taylor as well.

838
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 1: Can you tell me or recall the experience of hearing

839
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: what happened to Otis Redding and the original barcas well.

840
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 4: Let me first first say this because this is this

841
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 4: is this is an interesting story. When Otis came to

842
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 4: Memphis to record Sitting on the Doctor the Bay my

843
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 4: office at the Stacks Building. The door to the office

844
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 4: was on the street, because by then we had bought

845
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: the other location. There was a cafe next door to

846
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 4: the theater, and there was some other's things on the

847
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 4: other side, and there was a grocery store on the

848
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 4: other side. We had bought all of that and converted

849
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 4: that into part of the space. Otis came into the

850
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 4: room in my office. He said, I want you to

851
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 4: hear a song and tell me what you think about it,

852
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: because he you know, he there was a mis respect there.

853
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 4: So he came and he sang with a acoustic guitar, openstright, acoustic,

854
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 4: and he sang Sitting on the Doctor of the Bay

855
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 4: to me the whole song, and he said, what you think.

856
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 4: I said, well, I think you ought to make the

857
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 4: first verse the last verse and the last verse the

858
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 4: first verse, because the story says so better than me.

859
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 4: He really thinks he is. He went into the studio

860
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 4: and recorded Sitting on the Doctor of the Bay. Now

861
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 4: it was not complete because he had a plane to

862
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 4: catch and he then left Memphis, got on got did

863
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 4: his flight. I was, as I mentioned the vocals book

864
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 4: of Tenmg's that weekend, we flew to Ohio and played

865
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 4: a cottage up there in n OHI up there, so

866
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 4: I we're in. We had finished the gig, were in

867
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 4: the airport. I get a call from my wife at

868
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 4: the time. I get a call saying that their said

869
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 4: that Otis Ready was in an airplane crash. And I said,

870
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe. I said, no, what do you? And

871
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 4: I didn't believe it, and she reinforced it in in

872
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 4: a real emotional way to me. And I told the

873
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 4: guys that I was told when I told the guys that,

874
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 4: and we were getting ready to catch a plane to

875
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 4: come back to Memphis when we found out. So we

876
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 4: were coming from a gig Otis was going. They were

877
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 4: going to another gig. And the devastation of finding out

878
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: about that was when we were on another gig. Matter

879
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 4: of fact, it's I think I want to say, it's

880
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 4: in Booker T's book if you read Booker talks about

881
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 4: it as well. That's that's that's when that was found out.

882
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: Did you did you know, James Alexander, Well, uh, the

883
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: basis of the bar Kays, Well.

884
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 4: Then you don't know the story about how the record

885
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 4: cut came about. They had a record, a track that

886
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 4: they had and it was just a track. Isaac and

887
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 4: I went into the room. It was a track. Jim

888
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 4: Steward was standing over there listening to it, didn't know

889
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 4: what what it was. Then called it they was. They

890
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 4: played the track for us. Isaac Hayes came up with

891
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 4: the title soul Finger. I said, let's put some kids

892
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 4: on the record. I went outside and got twenty five

893
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: or thirty kids, brought him in the room, got two

894
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 4: cases of coke, asked James, James Elexander when you interviewed

895
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 4: him about this story, got two cases of coke, gave

896
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 4: him the Coca cone. I directed them like a choir.

897
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 4: Every time I raised my hand and do this, you

898
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 4: scream soul finger. And then when I do this, you

899
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 4: say you say so. And so Isaac gave the title

900
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 4: soul Finger for the record. I put the kids on it.

901
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 4: That's that's the record. So James Alexander definitely knows David

902
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 4: Porter and Isaac Hayes definitely does that. Getting jigging record.

903
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 4: No no, I did on the Barcades, gave them I

904
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 4: did a head range, gave them fifty percent of the song.

905
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 4: But I came up with it. Put the kiss the

906
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 4: same thing again. I got Kiss off the street. I

907
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 4: directed him like a que and had him sing and

908
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 4: did the track of the Barcades singing dance right, the

909
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 4: singing dance, so real close to James.

910
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: I've always been curious and you know he's he's definitely,

911
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: he's definitely like one of our buckets, bucket list guests

912
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 1: that we want to get. Just let me know, oh please,

913
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: that that's him and Jazzy Fae, like James Son.

914
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 4: Used to lay on the floor in the studio.

915
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: If really yeah, do you know like how he was

916
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: able to bounce back and start the group all over again,

917
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: and just how he felt. Because I believe the story

918
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: is that, I don't know if it was a coin

919
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: flippant not. The thing was that only a certain amount

920
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: of people could fit on the plane. I believe the

921
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: legend is that James Alexander is like, look, I'll just

922
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: catch a commercial flight and him and Carl.

923
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 4: Did that another not not Carl Kunaham, but another car

924
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 4: Carl Siums did that cause Carl Sum was going to

925
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 4: go with it and James and Carl Sums did that.

926
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 4: That's that's true. Okay, it was ah something like that,

927
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 4: whatever the number sixts was, but James and Carl couldn't

928
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 4: get on it, and James took a commercial flight. That's true.

929
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 4: James was the one that was asked to go, and

930
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 4: because Zelma didn't want to, she wasn't the most able

931
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 4: to do it. James was the one that went to

932
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 4: identify this.

933
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: I know that was such a devastating loss to the label.

934
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: Like how are you guys, especially with a transition of

935
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: you know, moving into the seventies and whatnot, can you

936
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: explain just the feeling at the time, like especially post

937
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: King by the time the seventies comes, Like what do

938
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: you feeling in terms of like where music is or

939
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: where Stacks is as an organization to.

940
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 4: Really appreciate the energy that Otis brought to our environment.

941
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 4: Otis was a driver for another guy that was being

942
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 4: recorded at the time. Otis came in as his driver.

943
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 4: Otis pleaded with Al Jackson Junior to would someone take

944
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 4: a listen to him? Sing? Al told Steve give if

945
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 4: you got a minute, man, people that already was leaving,

946
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 4: Andy already left, would you take a listen to this guy?

947
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 4: He just wanted somebody to listen to him. Otis Redding

948
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 4: saying these arms of mind with Steve Cropper, who is

949
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 4: not a piano player, playing tributs on the piano, and

950
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 4: the rest is history for ODIs ready then, because no

951
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 4: one understood oldest better than Otis, because Otis was a

952
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 4: huge fan of Little Richard. If you listen to the

953
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: B side of These Arms of Mine, you're gonna think

954
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 4: it's Little Richard because that's where Otis was. But the

955
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 4: These Arms of Mine song, Otis showed where he was,

956
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: and that was the thing that resonated inside of that room.

957
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 4: And no one could do that but Otis, and Otis

958
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 4: was given the lead way to show where that came from.

959
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 4: And then Otis was the one that started really magnifying

960
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 4: the head arranges kind of vibe or what of became

961
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 4: the cornerstone of everything we did there. So the loss

962
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 4: of Otis created a kind of emotional kind of devastation

963
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 4: to all of us that it's no way to explain

964
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 4: the level of it, because then we begin to feel

965
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 4: what could have been with the magic that was coming

966
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 4: from this man. I mean he would go in the

967
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 4: studio in this like fastest, get up, we'll be able

968
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 4: to come up with all these parts and these tracks

969
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 4: and just do them and then go on to mic

970
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 4: and make up the song on the mic. That's me

971
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 4: singing homedy with him.

972
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you about that.

973
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but that's im.

974
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 6: I didn't know when the times he says I said this,

975
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 6: when you gonna come in, he said, you feeling.

976
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 4: It was like, but that's the magic of this this god.

977
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 1: The thing is that Otis Redding was twenty seven when

978
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: he died. Was it that typical for during the time

979
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: that you guys have between the age of what twenty

980
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: he came to you, twenty three or twenty four?

981
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 4: I don't, I can't.

982
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: You could be right, yeah, twenty three, twenty four, very twitters,

983
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: but I can't remember, Like, were you guys saying to

984
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: yourselves back then, like this guy has a way older

985
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: voice than what his age allows. Or was it just

986
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: the stress of living in that time just brought that

987
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: age and that experience on your typical singer back then.

988
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 4: When you listen to the B side, as mentioned of

989
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 4: these ums of mine, and you hear Otis there, and

990
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 4: you listen to what Otis was doing. Otis was so

991
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 4: brilliant as far as seeming in the individuality that magnified

992
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 4: with people. So you could talk to Otis and I was, yeah,

993
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 4: how you doing, Everything's fine? But then he said, you

994
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 4: can't get that, you know. I mean, all of this

995
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 4: was with a purpose aim at locking you in to

996
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 4: the persona that was Otis. Ready, there was no Otis

997
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 4: didn't talk like that. Job. That was a character you

998
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 4: better believe it was. But he also perfected it in

999
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 4: such a way that that the uniqueness of him, because

1000
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 4: he would stumble up on other things that he would do,

1001
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 4: because and he's making up things on the microphone as well.

1002
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 4: It's just.

1003
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: That was a character man, even on trimp where he's

1004
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: like talking on countries like.

1005
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 4: Bro, it's real what I'm telling you. This man was brilliant.

1006
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 4: And and and and the Brians were manifested in some

1007
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 4: of the patterns that the guests were able to play,

1008
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 4: which was motivating Isaac and I to get better with

1009
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 4: our patterns. I Thank You. The record on I Thank

1010
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 4: You was motivated out of Otis reading I went there.

1011
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 4: Answer right, Tennessee Walker horses on the drums. Now, just

1012
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 4: the magic of Otis Ready and seeing what he would

1013
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 4: do in the room was the catalyst for so much

1014
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 4: of what happened through all of us, and so us

1015
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 4: trying to find our traction to get into the ballpark

1016
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 4: of that was to your point about a little bit

1017
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 4: of the decline before people were beginning to find their way.

1018
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 4: That was part of it. We had lost the magic

1019
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 4: marker for what we could ultimately be when we lost

1020
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 4: that guy.

1021
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: Who do you think he was trying to emulate since

1022
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: that wasn't his natural.

1023
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 4: Voice Otis Ready. When I say that individuality was the

1024
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 4: cornerstone of the magic of what was having in their stacks,

1025
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 4: I'm saying that that became the signature thought for everybody

1026
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 4: on every record. William Bale his records in the Sweeteness,

1027
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 4: said Booker, and William wrote and the songs everybody loves.

1028
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 4: One of those songs, that's William going into a character

1029
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 4: that's one of my best buddies to this day. That's

1030
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 4: also inside of the character of where you know his

1031
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 4: slot was.

1032
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you're saying is people there were alter egos

1033
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: before there were Sasha fears, that's what you're saying, you

1034
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: know what.

1035
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: I'm living that right now because I just found an

1036
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: interview with Bobby Woomeck talking about Slid recording. There's a

1037
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: ride going on, and you know, one of the questions

1038
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: I had about Sly was like, well, how come the

1039
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: voice of slies on that record where he's like clear

1040
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: as day on his record, And Bobby was just like, man,

1041
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: SLID's an actor. He was just fucking around.

1042
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 5: And.

1043
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: I see now, like, I don't know, it's just said

1044
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 1: to me, just that voice is so seasoned, like it

1045
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: just and again, like I heard that voice when I

1046
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: was ten, so I just thought that's like my grandfather's voice.

1047
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 1: So when I found out he was, you know, I'm

1048
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: thinking twenty seven, I'm thinking, you know, like Chris Brown's

1049
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: voice or bad era Michael Jackson voice like sounds like young,

1050
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: but he just sounds so old and seasoned. I just

1051
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: thought that was unusual.

1052
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 4: I came from a period where people who looked like me,

1053
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 4: in order to connect in a market that didn't handle

1054
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 4: all the access of internet all those kind of things,

1055
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 4: had to find a way to make the possibilities of

1056
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 4: that more real and the best way to do that,

1057
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 4: based on the evidence of time, was to find the

1058
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 4: individuality that created an essence of uniqueness for you. And

1059
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 4: inside of that kind of thought process was the desire

1060
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 4: to find that. And in many instance, when people would

1061
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 4: find that, they would find themselves and they would know

1062
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 4: where that pocket was. Bobby Wallman Ship's moment left Stax

1063
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 4: Records when Stacks, when Satellite turned into Stax and Chips

1064
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 4: went to a place called American Studios. And because Bobby

1065
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 4: couldn't get into Stax Records, where did he go? In Memphis, Tennessee.

1066
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 4: Bobby went to American Studios. And if you go by

1067
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 4: the early music of Bobby Womack, you'll find out that

1068
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 4: Bobby Womack was in Memphis, Tennessee recording over there, Danny

1069
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 4: Thomas and Chelsea at Chips Woman Studio. Check it out.

1070
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 4: And so look when we did gigs, and I'll say this,

1071
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 4: and when we did gigs on the on the college circuit,

1072
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 4: and we'd go and do these gigs. Some of these

1073
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,479
Speaker 4: white colleges would have two acts performing. Some of these

1074
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 4: appearances were book of ten emg's on one end of

1075
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 4: the floor. Because they didn't know that Booker had a vocalist,

1076
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 4: which was me. They would hire another group to sing

1077
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 4: and perform. Who did they have one of those gigs

1078
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 4: and this was a guy became a buddy of mine

1079
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 4: behind the Oser Brothers who was playing guitarme for the

1080
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: brothers at these college dates. Jimmy who came to Memphis

1081
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 4: with me to try to get some gigs and sessions

1082
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 4: with me in Stacks Records. Jimmy Henrix. So all of this,

1083
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 4: all of this speaks to people understanding that they had

1084
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 4: to find an individual alder that gave them an end

1085
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 4: to where they wanted to go. Jimmy is another essence

1086
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 4: and example of that because he was a bad mother

1087
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 4: shits your mouth playing bro. But when he got when

1088
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 4: he got time for him to find him, he knew

1089
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 4: how to integrate those nuances that became the rock thing

1090
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 4: and going that whole look. He knew how to do

1091
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 4: that and he did it to the bone.

1092
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: So you're basically saying that rap music isn't the only

1093
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:51,959
Speaker 1: genre in which someone's everyday voice all Sean Carter and

1094
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: jay Z is you have to be a character. I

1095
00:58:57,920 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: just thought that was hip hop.

1096
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: The Land of Lead didn't start with hip hop.

1097
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 4: Nuances of what, in my opinion, many of those talents

1098
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 4: got to where they got to was realizing that James

1099
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 4: Brown saying like sound like James Brown, and Teddy Pendergrass

1100
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 4: sounded like Teddy Pendergrass, and somewhere in between that sly

1101
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 4: Stones sound like sly and somewhere in between that you go,

1102
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 4: you can go down the line. And the magic habit

1103
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 4: when people perfected the essences of who they were with

1104
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 4: the purity of an emotional connecting way to an audience,

1105
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 4: and that was where the magic was. And so I

1106
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 4: think that when you found all these records happening on

1107
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 4: the Tonic and Cat's trying to find a way to

1108
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 4: trick their voice to make themselves sound whatever they're doing,

1109
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 4: they got that undernoess to them possible of the influences

1110
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 4: that came through their grandmama and the uncle whatever talking

1111
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 4: about how they like, I like that James Brown. I

1112
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 4: was like, why y'all doing that kind of stuff? And

1113
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 4: then they found a way to make it work for them,

1114
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 4: and they make it work to the Hill and so

1115
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 4: Nas and these other kids, and they told me that

1116
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 4: that that you mentioned who shot you? Which which which

1117
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 4: My guy bigger did. But they told me biggest audition

1118
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 4: tape was a song of mine and put us writing.

1119
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: I forget Bone Alley, Yeah.

1120
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 4: Came to Memphis to interview me and he told me that.

1121
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 4: I said, I what are you talking? He said no,

1122
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 4: his audition was I've never heard that and so so

1123
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 4: by the time I thing I heard was who shot you?

1124
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 4: So But the point I'm just saying, they were looking

1125
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 4: for ways to find the individuality that was uniquely them

1126
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 4: and they've perfected. So when I listened to Biggie and

1127
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,479
Speaker 4: hear where he was coming from, and then I listened

1128
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 4: to Kendrick to said what I'm saying, this is stupid

1129
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 4: stuff because they all find a way to find the

1130
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 4: magic within the says you mentioned Jay, They all find

1131
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 4: a way to do that. Those who become affected with

1132
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 4: it as soon as they get the pocket of money,

1133
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 4: they moved to the hills. But hey, it's wrong with that,

1134
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 4: and that I'm wrong with that.

1135
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: But real, well, well, lets Steve ask this question because

1136
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I forgot my question.

1137
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 5: Question the story you mentioned earlier about sitting on the

1138
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 5: dock of the bay that it was unfinished, did you

1139
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 5: oversee the finishing of that song or how did that

1140
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 5: get finished?

1141
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 4: No proper did that? Steve?

1142
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 5: So what had to be recorded after his accident.

1143
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 4: In session? You know, all this is just saying the

1144
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 4: song to me when he came to my office, and

1145
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 4: then I just gave him that that suggestion. Then he

1146
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 4: went in the studio and recorded. You know, I don't

1147
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 4: know to what degree he was it was not finished.

1148
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 4: I really don't.

1149
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 5: All right, Well, I have a follow up question then

1150
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 5: about Hendrix. Why didn't Stacks sign Hendrix? Or I'm trying

1151
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 5: to imagine Jimmy Hendricks as a Stax artist, what that

1152
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 5: would be like? Was there any talk blues guy?

1153
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 4: You know, he wasn't entries at the time. He was

1154
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 4: trying to get on SUC sessions. There was no essence

1155
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 4: of jim and being Jimmy at the time, gotcha, yeah, yeah,

1156
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 4: But and then then Steve had a lock on the studio.

1157
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,919
Speaker 4: Being honest with you, he wasn't easy to get get

1158
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 4: in some sessions, you know, and he just came to

1159
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 4: see if he could.

1160
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: How many studios were in total rooms?

1161
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 4: Well, there eventually became three rooms in there, A B,

1162
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 4: and C, but it was a while before we got B.

1163
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 4: It was it was a while.

1164
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: Before we got that, so what's scheduling like?

1165
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 4: It was crazy. We ended up, as I mentioned before,

1166
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 4: having to do bookings that it wasn't a place in

1167
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 4: muscle shows.

1168
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I get it now.

1169
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 4: Goats in Mississippi. We did some bookings, you know, we

1170
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 4: we ended up because we had so many acts to do.

1171
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: Was Nashville ever an option like was did Nashville have

1172
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: any potential of having flavor?

1173
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah? Asked about that?

1174
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: Or nah? No?

1175
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: So do you feel the It's funny, I'm like, I

1176
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: know you know about the guy to ask about the

1177
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 2: Black Music Museum. It's only one black music museum in

1178
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 2: the country, and it's in Nashville. But it's it's it's

1179
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 2: supposed to feel like a situation where to make folks come.

1180
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 2: Do you feel like that or do you feel like

1181
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 2: that it should be Memphis?

1182
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 4: It should have been Memphis. But but honestly, Henry Hicks

1183
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 4: Uh the guy who came to Mesa before it was built,

1184
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 4: and we met on all that stuff, and I supported

1185
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 4: him in the effort because it's difficult for me to

1186
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 4: believe that actually happened in Nashville. If you know Nashville,

1187
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 4: believe that. But he pulled it off and he got uh.

1188
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 4: He honored Pattel, La Belle, Teddy Rodder, Kirk Franklin and

1189
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 4: myself as a program that we did there several years ago.

1190
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 4: As he was bringing note the ride and disability to it,

1191
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 4: he bring several artists that talk about Nashville or whatever,

1192
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 4: and that's and that was part of the surprise for

1193
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 4: me to see that he was a brother that was

1194
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 4: really believing he was gonna pull it together and he did.

1195
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah him and quite a few people shouts at

1196
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,439
Speaker 2: Deanna Williams too, and Big John Platt is a nice

1197
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: community of folks that are.

1198
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,959
Speaker 4: Involved in Yeah, in that place special and.

1199
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: Where it's placed, like right in downtown in the face

1200
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: of like the Oprey.

1201
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 3: It's like you we here right in the face of

1202
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 3: the Yeah.

1203
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 4: So I give I give I give those guys credit

1204
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 4: for pulling off something that one I found a difficult

1205
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 4: lee that would ever be, but also the level of

1206
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 4: it being that that it is. I mean it it's beautiful.

1207
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you, David about you You talk

1208
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: about characters and uh, you know, the singers and everybody

1209
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 3: wanted to be individual Rufus Thomas Man what was what

1210
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 3: was he like? I thought I loved him. I mean

1211
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 3: I watched Tacks was all I saw him on. But yeah,

1212
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 3: what was he like? Just as a dude read book?

1213
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,479
Speaker 4: If you told Rufus Thomas that he wasn't an artist,

1214
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 4: he'd cutsh you out. Rufus knew that he could go

1215
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 4: into a sona that really magnified marketability for himself. If

1216
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 4: you try to get in the saying saying he was

1217
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 4: not what you think in terms of that, but when

1218
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 4: he was saying one of his original compositions, he could

1219
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 4: saying saying because no one could do it better than

1220
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 4: he could, and he could sell it in such a

1221
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: way that that was it was magic. He was. He

1222
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 4: was extremely confident man. He was up in age when

1223
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 4: he started recording. He was, but he was extremely confident.

1224
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 4: And he also felt that he wanted to be able

1225
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 4: to compete with Sam and Dave or Oldis and whoever

1226
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 4: was on the stage. So he would he found a

1227
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 4: way to get outfits even though he wasn't getting paid

1228
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 4: the kind of money the others were getting paid on

1229
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 4: the gigs. But you can tell that because every time

1230
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 4: he hit the stage, he'd be sharp as sharp could be.

1231
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 4: And when he go into this thing, he could do

1232
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 4: it to him. And so but that was because he

1233
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 4: just he just knew where his niche was and he

1234
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 4: refected us. We talked about earlier the individuality that was

1235
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 4: powerful for him.

1236
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 3: Carla was his daughter.

1237
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 4: Correct, Carla was his daughter.

1238
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 3: How was it when she came along? How did that work?

1239
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 4: Well? Cala came along at a time when when Jim

1240
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 4: still recorded Rufus and Colin or a record called Cass

1241
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 4: I Love It, which they said it was a hit,

1242
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 4: but it really was the marginal kind of record. But

1243
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 4: Jim saw something in Carla and asked her if she

1244
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 4: had any original songs, and she had a song called

1245
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 4: Gee Whiz, and Colin paid a little piano and Cala

1246
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 4: recorded Ge Whiz. It really became the dome the for

1247
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 4: stacks and the relationship with Atlantic Records. That initiated the

1248
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 4: really power of the deal for us. And so that

1249
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 4: was what that was. And then Isaaca and I had

1250
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 4: the biggest record on Caller because we wrote a song

1251
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 4: called b A d Y and we produced that on

1252
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 4: Calling and that was her biggest record. But yeah, no,

1253
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 4: she she was shed some some stuff and director with

1254
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 4: Quest mentioned with Trump, was she oldest brought out another

1255
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 4: kind of person. This is very effective.

1256
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: We talked about soul man, but there's a whole like

1257
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 1: barge of classic songs. I'm just gonna name something. Can

1258
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: you recall the stories of how or tell me what

1259
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 1: the songwriting processes for some of these songs, Like when

1260
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: Something's Wrong with My Baby?

1261
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was, I was. I was a man's boy

1262
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 4: and got a girl pregnant high school and my mama said,

1263
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 4: you got married, and I married? Uh, nineteen years old.

1264
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 4: I married. And so I'm living with a kid and

1265
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 4: fantasizing as I'm trying to get in the music in

1266
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 4: as an effective way. I'm about love and what is

1267
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 4: would be the power love? Because the young lady didn't

1268
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 4: love me and I didn't love her. But we had

1269
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 4: a kid, and so I would dream about babies and

1270
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 4: so just I would have a pad up under the bed,

1271
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 4: which I still do that when a right, and sometimes

1272
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 4: I'd wake up with a thought and the idea and

1273
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 4: I would write it down. When something is Wrong with

1274
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 4: my Baby was one of those ideas that I woke

1275
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 4: up in the dream, wrote, wrote the title down, got up,

1276
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 4: wrote the whole song out called Isaac. We couldn't get

1277
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 4: into the studio. As I mentioned, we didn't have a

1278
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 4: lot of rooms at the time. Couldn't get in the studio.

1279
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 4: We went over to Sidney Kirk's house. One of Isaac's

1280
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 4: friend got his piano, wrote when Something Is Wrong with

1281
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 4: My Baby in about twenty five thirty minutes because they

1282
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 4: had the melody already in the head. And the rest

1283
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 4: is history with that song. But that was like when

1284
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 4: I mentioned the titles Isaac, he said, man, I love that,

1285
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 4: and we wrote it and so man came about just

1286
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 4: as equally because Isaac heard something out of Detroit and said, man,

1287
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,560
Speaker 4: we need to write a song called soul Man. And

1288
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 4: then here comes sol mad We're talking. We wanted to

1289
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 4: be a motivational song our music. So I talked about

1290
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 4: getting an education. I was educated at Woodstock. I was

1291
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 4: brought up on the science. We talked about I'm the

1292
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 4: beginning the whole manifestation of motivating people, the double meaning

1293
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 4: of soul Man in the Woodstock line in there. That

1294
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 4: was before the festival Woodstock, and when Bulusi and Akro

1295
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 4: was saying people thought that we had Woodstock, that's Woodstock

1296
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 4: was a county school in Memphis. But but all of

1297
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 4: those things came about with.

1298
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 7: Us trying to think of ways to make ideas that

1299
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 7: people can relate to but also motivational for people inside

1300
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 7: of the subliminal message in our writings.

1301
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 4: And that's what we were.

1302
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 3: Doing when you and when you and Isaac worked together.

1303
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 3: How did y'all work? Like?

1304
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:41,040
Speaker 4: Did you?

1305
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 3: Were you on piano? Was he on piano? Were you

1306
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:43,719
Speaker 3: more lyrics?

1307
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,840
Speaker 4: Isaac was on piano. I started out as a lousy

1308
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 4: trumpet player to start trying to play trumpet in high

1309
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 4: school and wanted to be a singing star. Recent was

1310
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 4: the drama in high school, and Booker was below us

1311
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 4: in high school, and so I started thinking I was

1312
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 4: this great trace singing and put down the instruments. And

1313
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 4: so by the time Isaac and I got together, I

1314
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 4: understood melodically how to do exactly what we needed to

1315
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 4: do lyrically, how to do that. And Isaac we started out,

1316
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 4: I just started up playing trippers on the piano before

1317
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 4: we started, just stretching himself to do all he could do,

1318
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, he started discovering things that

1319
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 4: he would hear inside of his head, which is where

1320
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 4: the head arrangement came and I started finding things I

1321
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 4: would hear inside of my head. And then when we

1322
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 4: would sit down to write a song or come up

1323
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 4: with an idea, if we had to put some piece

1324
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 4: of something down on another tape to use it as

1325
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 4: a reference for something possibility, we would then sit down

1326
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 4: and create the songs right from stretch. Right at that

1327
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 4: point we'd schedule or writing. We'd go and do a

1328
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 4: gig at a club or something like that and come

1329
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 4: to the studio and just start writing. And we would

1330
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 4: do that from artists to artist, song to song individualities

1331
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 4: and be it a blue song on Johnny Taylor, a

1332
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 4: blue song on Elbath King, a lover song on a

1333
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 4: soul children, a pretty song on the Emotions, a flat

1334
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 4: down song on Sam and that we focused on doing

1335
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 4: it the way we felt that inside of the room.

1336
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 4: But it was Jilly, Isaac and I sitting at the piano,

1337
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 4: me coming up with the melodies and the lyrics of

1338
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 4: a song, singing the song, and we're coming up with

1339
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 4: a musical direction that we would go inside of that.

1340
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 4: The head arranging part of that comes and we would

1341
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 4: go into the room. We talk about the concept of it.

1342
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 4: If we wanted to hold on them coming. It was

1343
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 4: one of those examples where where he had had had

1344
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 4: a horn pattern down weeks before, and we talked about

1345
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 4: coming up with this idea after I came out of

1346
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 4: the restroom, and then we talked about an idea about Superman,

1347
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 4: a resking kind of thing and a motivation for people,

1348
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 4: and that was where the thought was. And once we

1349
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 4: said that, twenty minutes later we had the song don't

1350
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 4: you ever feel sad? You know me, but times are bad,

1351
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 4: the day comes, you're down and river troubling about the

1352
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 4: drown hold on I'm coming, And we talked about the

1353
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 4: unity and the bond between people with that.

1354
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 1: But when you saw Roman, when you were recalling the

1355
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 1: story of Something's Wrong with My Baby, for half a second,

1356
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, this isn't a love song.

1357
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: He's talking about his newborn kid being sick. And I

1358
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: was like, wait, where's he about to go with this story?

1359
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: Like that's what it means literally a baby?

1360
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 4: No. Now, I was trying to think about what it'd

1361
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 4: be like they had a real woman that I could

1362
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 4: really feel all of that for.

1363
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: I feel you, I believe in ninety one ninety two,

1364
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: back when the idea of a box set was a

1365
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: novel idea. These eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve CD sets,

1366
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 1: like a history of a label started happening for the

1367
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: record industry because literally, if you buy the Stacks box

1368
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: set from nineteen ninety one, you can hear the entire

1369
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: history of the Wu Tang clan. I want to know,

1370
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 1: have you ever met the Riza and what were your

1371
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 1: initial thoughts in the mid nineties when suddenly the thing

1372
01:12:56,160 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: about Riza and his sampling method is it was even jarring.

1373
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can speak for Liah, Steve

1374
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: or Fante, but his level of sampling was really jarring,

1375
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: Like like I'm very familiar with the sweet inspirations like

1376
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: Why Mary and all that stuff, and so just the

1377
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 1: just the very unorthodox way that he sampled that Why

1378
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 1: Mary is a criminology.

1379
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 2: I knew it was always different with Riza. I knew

1380
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 2: it was never you can't it ain't easy. It was

1381
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 2: never easy.

1382
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 3: That's and he wasn't He wasn't afraid to use voices either,

1383
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 3: like he would a lot. Generally when you would chop samples,

1384
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,600
Speaker 3: you would try to get out of the vocal. You

1385
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:41,560
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying he would almost intentionally like incorporate

1386
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 3: the vocal use.

1387
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very so when you're hearing like or

1388
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: I guess you know you have to get permission. I

1389
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: don't know what the process is like if your publisher

1390
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: just says, hey, I give a permission, or they gotta

1391
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: go to the songwriter. Sometimes we got to have a

1392
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 1: conversation with the songwriter. Sometimes it's just like, yeah, you

1393
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: could clear it. But when when your work starts getting

1394
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:08,560
Speaker 1: a lot of traction in the early to mid nineties

1395
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: with Biggie with Uh even Mop with Annie up Soul

1396
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: Sister Brown Sugar, I believe yeah, yeah, Like what are

1397
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: you feeling? Is are you feeling like to change I'm

1398
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 1: back or is it like wait, I didn't intend my

1399
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: songs to sound like this, Like what are they doing?

1400
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 4: The respect for the creative process was something that I

1401
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:38,719
Speaker 4: marveled at, I know Isaac marvel at, and the fact

1402
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 4: that I just simply felt good they found an interesting

1403
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 4: way to interpret something that I was part of the

1404
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 4: creation of. When Rizza and I met, Rizzi met, we've met,

1405
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 4: I've even introduced him on some shows and stuff, and

1406
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 4: he's kind of my studio and just The level of

1407
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,600
Speaker 4: respect that those guys head for the catalog was just

1408
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 4: amazing to me. But also find the interesting ways they

1409
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 4: found to interpret the song like cream, I mean, like

1410
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 4: I mean, come on, you know wait, let.

1411
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: Me inter it up to you, because I got a

1412
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: question with as long as I Got You, maybe maybe

1413
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: like four five years ago. Actually, I think during the

1414
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 1: Motions episode I played it. The Emotions have a version

1415
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,480
Speaker 1: of as Long as I Got You, which is even funkier.

1416
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: It sounds like a demo. Why wasn't that version ever released?

1417
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 4: Because it probably sounded like the demo that you're talking about.

1418
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 4: You know, I really, I really don't even remember the

1419
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 4: Emotion's version. Do you know how embarrassed that is for

1420
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 4: me to say that?

1421
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:49,719
Speaker 1: Because you got too made over two thousand songs, like we will.

1422
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 3: Forgive you for forgetting one everything, but.

1423
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: Again you you've done over two thousand songs, so you

1424
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: can forget a few.

1425
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 4: Yeah. But but the version that we did to charmels

1426
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:06,720
Speaker 4: Isaac was was uh. I don't want to bust him out,

1427
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,640
Speaker 4: but he was. He was a little romandously fascinated with

1428
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 4: one of the girls with that because we weren't even

1429
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 4: they were not looked upon as an act that we're

1430
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 4: gonna let's go into We're gonna record this s group

1431
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 4: called the Chamels. We knew that, Mary and and Milton,

1432
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 4: we knew them. But when Isaac come he said, man,

1433
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 4: we ought to record record them? He said what he said, Well,

1434
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 4: so we did. And one of the banner things that

1435
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 4: we did, the one banner thing that we did that

1436
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 4: I just marvel. It was as long as I got you.

1437
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 4: And that was also one of those things that we

1438
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 4: naturally felt the power of. And when we just wrote

1439
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 4: the song and then Barbara, who is the least singer

1440
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 4: of it, her text on it was amazing. Isaac is

1441
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 4: singing background on some of the parts of the record. Wow,

1442
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 4: that's not all the girl was saying. So so it's

1443
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:06,360
Speaker 4: It was one of those things that I was shocked

1444
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,520
Speaker 4: at how it ended up being sampled so much. Even

1445
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 4: the Nicole bus sample of it. I mean, that's Barbara

1446
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 4: singing that part of it on the record. That's the

1447
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 4: actual record on you on the cod Okay section of it.

1448
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: You know, we gotta mention You've also worked with the

1449
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 1: legendary Cissy Houston and the Sweet Inspirations.

1450
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 4: Not not Sissy but but the sweetest verses because Sissy wasn't.

1451
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: So she left the group at the time.

1452
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, she left the group at the time. Yeah, if

1453
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 4: it was three of them at the time, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1454
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 4: Sissy wasn't with them. And wishes and dishes and and

1455
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 4: your role when you don't get it at the home

1456
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 4: of those songs, sisus not on that.

1457
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: So were the Emotions the only group that weren't necessarily

1458
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 1: quote unquote homegrown. Was the main protocol of Stax Records

1459
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 1: to just have like Memphis home Groom talent or like,

1460
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: how did do you know how the Emotions came to

1461
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: the label and what was it like working with them?

1462
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 4: Hervis Staples bought the Emotions to us.

1463
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right.

1464
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he brought him to Isaac and I and

1465
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:17,400
Speaker 4: they were very very young, sixteen years old, very very young.

1466
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 4: Sheila was younger than sixteen. Well I think Wonder was

1467
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 4: the oldest one, I believe, right, But Purvis bought them

1468
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 4: to Isaaca and I take a listen to and their

1469
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 4: father was Joe was like a little guitar player. He

1470
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 4: wanted to be a part of the group. He was

1471
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 4: their father, And so we listened to them, and we

1472
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 4: said that Joe wanted to be a part of the

1473
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 4: group because he was impressed with you know, pop staples,

1474
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 4: you know with the Staples, and so we said, if

1475
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 4: we would do them, we'd have to do just the girls,

1476
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 4: and so we did the girl but Purvis was the

1477
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,559
Speaker 4: one that brought them to us. Wow.

1478
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so you you mentioned it earlier. I was saving

1479
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: it for now, but you gotta tell me, like, what

1480
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 1: is the story behind I'm afraid the Masquerade is over?

1481
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: Because every time I have a break up, Yo, every

1482
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: time I have a breakup, like just that is one

1483
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: of the saddest songs ever. And now and that's another

1484
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: example of like they're crazy arrangements in that song. And

1485
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 1: now that you're telling me that you guys are going

1486
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: on phillion and all that stuff.

1487
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 4: And it I'm walking around the room to.

1488
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 1: Tell what was the genesis of that song?

1489
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:38,879
Speaker 4: Actually behind the second album which had hang On Sloopy

1490
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 4: on it. I don't know if you ever heard that

1491
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 4: that's I know, yeah, yeah, but I didn't quite hit

1492
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 4: the mark with hang on Sloopy. But I like the

1493
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:50,640
Speaker 4: concept that I had would hang on Sloopy. So when

1494
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 4: I came up with the concept of creating acting scenes

1495
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 4: inside of the next project. I knew I was going

1496
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 4: to create something different, so I wanted to have thing

1497
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 4: sing who is she?

1498
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 1: Who's the woman? Who's the woman that was one.

1499
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 4: Of my secretary but also my wife. My second wife

1500
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 4: was also in that. That's that when the card scene,

1501
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 4: I come up running, Uh, that's my second wife. The

1502
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 4: girl I'm talking to about the girl. Yeah, I'm fascinated

1503
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 4: with the girl. Man, that was actually my wife.

1504
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: Wait time, now there's two women on that song.

1505
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, if you go to the very beginning, not

1506
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 4: not on that song. If you go to the very

1507
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 4: beginning of the album, yes, I know that I want Yes, yeah,

1508
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 4: and and and I go. You open the door, and

1509
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:42,560
Speaker 4: I go into this party and I'm talking, Well, the

1510
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 4: girl that's talking to me about the other girl, Uh,

1511
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 4: that was my wife. I wrote out the story as

1512
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 4: I would go, and I then selected the songs that

1513
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 4: would fit the concept of where I was going to

1514
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 4: take the story to. If you notice the last song

1515
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 4: on it was Airplane Ticket Bus Ride, Can I Borrow

1516
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 4: Your Car? I wrote that at the last minute because

1517
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 4: I had gone through the whole storyline and didn't have

1518
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 4: the closed out song. But the Masqueraders overcame about where

1519
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 4: I wanted to create something that gave the essences of

1520
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 4: all the things that are having prior to that period

1521
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 4: in the Apple, whether it's acting scenes. So if you

1522
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 4: notice the breakdown comes and I start rapping, well that

1523
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 4: was I didn't have it written out. I knew the concept.

1524
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 4: I didn't have the rap written out on that song.

1525
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 4: I knew the concept, and I talked the concept after

1526
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 4: I did the head arrangers for the parts.

1527
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 1: So you're singing it as the band sort of reading

1528
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: your face at the same time.

1529
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 4: No, no, I did the track first. In my mind,

1530
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:51,760
Speaker 4: I'm looking at I'm going through the emotion of this

1531
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,240
Speaker 4: inside of the various transitions. That's why the piano part

1532
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 4: that's running playing the piano, I'm humming the piano part

1533
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 4: for running to play. The signature has been saying all

1534
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 4: this sun. That's one of those things where a piano player,

1535
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 4: that's what we want to play more right, just play

1536
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 4: that and stop just that and when I clue you

1537
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 4: stop on that. That's what that was. But so so

1538
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 4: after that was done, now I get rid of the

1539
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 4: single song. Now I do the rap and I'm feeling

1540
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 4: where the parts are before I do the horns, and

1541
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 4: I'm feeling all of that and I'm making I promise you,

1542
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 4: I'm making it up come to an extended part, not

1543
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 4: the actually good song. I'm making it up the whole

1544
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 4: time because I know where the storyline is gonna ultimately

1545
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 4: end up and where it's gonna lead to make songs.

1546
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 1: But not that I ever counted bars. But in your

1547
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: mind you're like, Okay, we're gonna do thirty two bars

1548
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,679
Speaker 1: of a break and I'll figure out something to say

1549
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: in these thirty two bars. No, and then it's over,

1550
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 1: Like you know.

1551
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 4: Now what I know? By kn't Bob? We do that?

1552
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 4: But not on this song. I so you got. I'm

1553
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:09,800
Speaker 4: walking around the room talking in the microphone, directing cats

1554
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 4: in the microphone. I'm going around them while the track

1555
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 4: is while I got the bed foundation of the track.

1556
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 4: Oh my mama, I'm telling you this how this was done.

1557
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 4: I'm walking around the room, harming the parts. I don't

1558
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 4: know how many bars I'm going to make this. I

1559
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 4: just want to make the emotional connectivity be a finick

1560
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 4: enough for me to feel something I need to feel

1561
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 4: when it's time to make the transition. That's why you

1562
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 4: hear some call flops and things inside of the track. Listen.

1563
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 4: I know, you know, you know, that's why you hear

1564
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 4: some of that. But after this of it was why

1565
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 4: I kept a lot of that.

1566
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: The wronger saying listeners of QLs Right now, I'm doing

1567
01:23:53,439 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 1: the Jim Carrey dumb and dumber realization, Jeff, I can't

1568
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 1: believe this. Wow. Okay.

1569
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 3: I was asked, David, were you a fan by chance

1570
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 3: of David Axelrod? Did you listen to any of his stuff? Really? Okay?

1571
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 3: I just both of you, y'all. I always like, oh, yeah,

1572
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 3: both of you guys, y'all kind of have like this

1573
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 3: really dark yeah, dramatic, like big uh Like it's it's

1574
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 3: big and like beautiful, but it's also kind of dark

1575
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 3: and kind of a carver as well, and it's really classy.

1576
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 3: It's elegant, but it's really like dark and it can

1577
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 3: be like, oh you listen to that, listen to it

1578
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 3: in the dark, you might be freaked out a little bit,

1579
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,719
Speaker 3: but really beautiful stuff.

1580
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 4: Man.

1581
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 3: I just I just wondered if y'all were fans of

1582
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 3: each other.

1583
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 4: Well, well, you know what I would tell you this

1584
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,759
Speaker 4: man I am. I feel that I've been so blessed

1585
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 4: because what come has come through me is the grace

1586
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 4: of a man upstairs. Because I have a nonprofit program

1587
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 4: where I teach songwriting, recorproducing all of that called the

1588
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 4: Constroining MT. It's ten years old. A lot of what

1589
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 4: you get coming out of ificent kids that have gone

1590
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 4: through my program in songwriting. All this's got got one

1591
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty some videos with everybody Stevie Bariz, Philip Bailey,

1592
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 4: Jimmy jam Bobby Womag, Edite la Verge I mean, let

1593
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 4: usy I mean on video talking about their concepts of

1594
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 4: the creating process. So all of this, I had to

1595
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 4: come up with a set way to understand how I

1596
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 4: do what I do for the success of those things

1597
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 4: to come out of that, Because if I was relying

1598
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 4: totally on how I felt, people don't care about how

1599
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 4: you feel. They care about how you make them feel.

1600
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:45,599
Speaker 4: So I had to find a way to make the

1601
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 4: magic of that be resonating to others. And I had

1602
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,719
Speaker 4: to also know in order to replicate it again, find

1603
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 4: some way to understand it. And part of what Isaac

1604
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 4: and I would talk about and sometimes he would think

1605
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,800
Speaker 4: I was crazy because I was so far end of that.

1606
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,640
Speaker 4: But it was a gift and Maurice White and I

1607
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 4: came from Virginia Street. Maurice, if you read this book,

1608
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 4: you see that he talked about me being one of

1609
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 4: the first persons he ran the name Earth Winning firedown

1610
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 4: to why I flew to La. I was at hot

1611
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 4: producer Maurice's with Ramsay planning the Hong Kong by the

1612
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 4: Cindrey Plaza Hotel. I flew to La because he wanted

1613
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 4: to tell me something he did to gig the next

1614
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 4: day were walking up sunset. He's going to tell you

1615
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 4: a concept I got. Maurice created the earth Wind and

1616
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 4: Fire off of a concept in the direction that he

1617
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 4: had from the gift go and knew exactly what he

1618
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:37,799
Speaker 4: was going to go in and the creative process because

1619
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 4: he knew he wanted to have an identity that created

1620
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:44,599
Speaker 4: a uniqueness that was totally him. That is the essence

1621
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 4: of what comes out of Memphis in such unique ways

1622
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 4: that no one can can understand it, including me and

1623
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 4: say if it's a God given gift?

1624
01:26:52,479 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 1: Was was Maurice's uh, metaphysical direction? Was it jar to

1625
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 1: you at the time because you know what Marius was

1626
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 1: trying to convey with earth, wind and fire was like

1627
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: the spirit which which is kind of the exact opposite

1628
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: of even though he was using gospel overturns in the

1629
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 1: Southern Church, but he's really using metaphysics and things outside

1630
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: of Westernized Christianity. Was that a little weird for you

1631
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:28,640
Speaker 1: at the time, Like what you get into Marius? Like, like,

1632
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 1: how did you perceive this, this kind of spirituality that

1633
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 1: Marius was was conveying with with the band.

1634
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 4: We're walking up the street and he said, tell me

1635
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:49,879
Speaker 4: what you think about this earth when in fire? Consider

1636
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 4: the time period that we're talking about, Ohio players, mm hmm.

1637
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 4: All I meant you couldn't go down.

1638
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 8: He comes a guy says, earth when in fire, and

1639
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:10,520
Speaker 8: this is the concept, David, and then I'm gonna fuse jazz.

1640
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 4: But he ran all of that down to me. He's

1641
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 4: gonna fuse that inside of it. What I thought was

1642
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 4: he's gonna make something work, because we always talked about

1643
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 4: how I stumbled from the spirituality of what I was

1644
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 4: doing to make it work, and I just believe he

1645
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 4: was gonna make it work. I just didn't know how

1646
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 4: he was going to accomplish it in the climate that

1647
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 4: we were living in, because he was it was going

1648
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 4: to be so innovative. It had to be. But when

1649
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 4: I heard the sound of what he did, because he

1650
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:42,600
Speaker 4: had a group before or when the fire, when I

1651
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 4: heard the sound of what he did with the group,

1652
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 4: it was it was over. And we stayed like this.

1653
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 4: I was I would fly to la when he when

1654
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 4: Maurice had to Parkinsons just to get him in the

1655
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 4: car and ride in the street because he was through touring.

1656
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,680
Speaker 4: We were that close and we talked of and left it.

1657
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 4: So his thought about what he was going to do

1658
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 4: because he had that thought about what those processes was

1659
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 4: going to be and what the musician was going to

1660
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 4: be before he put it together. The only thing he

1661
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 4: told me differently while we were on sun So he said,

1662
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to bring Verdein out here to California. He

1663
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:19,720
Speaker 4: told me that. But other than that, he was going

1664
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 4: to put all of those ingredients together and he did it.

1665
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:27,640
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just because we worked off of concepts

1666
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,799
Speaker 4: in the direction and identity and all of those things

1667
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 4: we lived off of that. I just didn't know he

1668
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:41,480
Speaker 4: would put it off. He did it. I believed in him.

1669
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:44,759
Speaker 1: There is one important question I forgot to ask as

1670
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:48,480
Speaker 1: a kid that grew up in a three thousand album household,

1671
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 1: and especially a kid that was afraid of clowns. Dog,

1672
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 1: who was the artistic visionary behind the album cover for

1673
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 1: Victim of the Joke?

1674
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 4: When he says you can't handle the truth? Listen, that's

1675
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 4: a joke. That's a joke. I didn't know how smart

1676
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 4: I was. I just thought that because I had some

1677
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 4: Tennessee Walker horses out in Shelby Farms. I just thought,

1678
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 4: I want to do this cover, and I want to

1679
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 4: have a clown outfit on and I want to be

1680
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 4: I want to sit on a drum because I want

1681
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,400
Speaker 4: to make this an opera. Called it Victim of the Joke?

1682
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 4: I wanted to be, and I want to make it

1683
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 4: like Who's the clown? Well and so, but this is

1684
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 4: before I wrote out the script. I had that. So

1685
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:47,560
Speaker 4: that was one of those things where becuse it's just

1686
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 4: it came from another kind of space, just like when

1687
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 4: something is wrong came from another kind of space. Hold

1688
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 4: on coming came from another kind of space. The toilet

1689
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 4: was there, but it was somewhere else. But it's just

1690
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 4: it's from another kind of space.

1691
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 1: When was the ending of Stacks as we knew it.

1692
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 4: The ending of Stacks happened with Isaac still there, Me

1693
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 4: still in charge of five labels ahead of A and RM.

1694
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 4: Steve Cropper was gone, Doug Dunn was gone, Al Jackson Jr.

1695
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 4: Was there, and so it was. It was a situation

1696
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 4: where we didn't know what was going on with the

1697
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 4: business part of the company, but we knew that al

1698
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 4: bail that became such a revered person, certainly after the

1699
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 4: White Stacks that we did, which was amazing within itself,

1700
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 4: until it was almost I had the feeling that the

1701
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 4: business white community where the biggest work. When they found

1702
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 4: out that because we had a line of credit with

1703
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 4: a particular bank there, when they found out that this

1704
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,639
Speaker 4: this black man was was what he was was doing,

1705
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 4: what he was doing, that it was almost they called

1706
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 4: the line and came at us in such a way

1707
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 4: that they got al Bill indicted eighteen indictment and tried

1708
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 4: to destroy him, foreclosed on the company. And the last

1709
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 4: thing we knew was Isaac couldn't get any money his money,

1710
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 4: which it was millions of dollars there, and the company

1711
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 4: actually folded because of foreclosure Isaac then left Stacks when

1712
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 4: it was foreclosed and then signed with the other labor.

1713
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 4: But he didn't he didn't sign with another label before

1714
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 4: Stacks closed, and so but it was it was an

1715
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 4: attack on destroying a powerful company that was creating a

1716
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 4: great amount of jobs and a tremendous amount of notoriety

1717
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 4: for Memphis, Tennessee. And you put that with what Willie

1718
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 4: Mitchell was doing. We were a power base in a

1719
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 4: city that was seaked in a in a kind of

1720
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 4: bigger fee that was not in its own interest because

1721
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 4: the credibility that we was bringing to the city was

1722
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:01,240
Speaker 4: was tremendous in itself.

1723
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:05,519
Speaker 3: They were you around when Al Bell formed Bellmark, his

1724
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 3: his indie label that they put out they end up

1725
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 3: putting out there it is but uh.

1726
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, he l moved to California when he did that.

1727
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,400
Speaker 4: You know, he had an office building on Hollywood there.

1728
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 4: You know, I was definitely wrong when Al when Stax

1729
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 4: was over and everybody thought Al was over, Ali ended

1730
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:29,200
Speaker 4: up you know, creating Bailmark. As you said, Wait a minute,

1731
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 4: he was. He was still in a brilliant mind.

1732
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he did. He did most Beautiful

1733
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 3: Girl in the World.

1734
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I forgot in Motown and Motown.

1735
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 4: Say what Al Bell worked with Barry Gordy at Motown form.

1736
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:50,680
Speaker 3: Them bells, them bells. I'm trying to.

1737
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 4: Check that out, Joe. You know, I'm gonna say, I've

1738
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 4: listened to you guys, and I just muddled and how

1739
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 4: much information Wasn't it was.

1740
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:03,560
Speaker 1: Fantasy at all associated with Al Bell? Because there was

1741
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 1: a period in the early Arts, like in two thousand

1742
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 1: and whatnot, in which ah damn, see, I'm messing up

1743
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:12,639
Speaker 1: right now. One of the executives that used to work

1744
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: at Geffen who signed me, went to Fantasy and was like, yes,

1745
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: we have all the Fantasy masters and all the Stacks masters.

1746
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 4: Like can I can I say? Of course? Was that

1747
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 4: was that Erny Singleton?

1748
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,080
Speaker 1: I know any Singleton, but no it was not him.

1749
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 4: No, Okay, okay, because I only worked for Fantasy period.

1750
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: Okay, but okay, so I guess they connected in the

1751
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 1: early arts.

1752
01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 4: Well you're not a Fantasy deal happened? Right?

1753
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, okay.

1754
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 4: STAXX closed was totally closed in seventy six. Here comes

1755
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 4: to People came to me and asked me would I

1756
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:53,600
Speaker 4: create a seven and a half tape of what the

1757
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,880
Speaker 4: was in the Stacks library and when I do that,

1758
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 4: because they didn't know what it was, the bankhead or

1759
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 4: closed us and they were just trying to figure out

1760
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 4: how to get rid of stuff and they didn't know

1761
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 4: what they had. And so what happened was they had

1762
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:11,599
Speaker 4: to pay me one hundred thousand dollars to put seven

1763
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 4: and a half takes together for about forty five minutes.

1764
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 4: And Fantasy Records came to me after that and asked

1765
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 4: me what I had up the label for them. What

1766
01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:29,679
Speaker 4: they wanted was to release the catalog of the music,

1767
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 4: and they wanted me to move to Berkeley, California. I said,

1768
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 4: I would not move to Berkeley, California. If you insted

1769
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:37,919
Speaker 4: me doing it, I would have to do it in Memphis,

1770
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 4: and I also would have to have the right to

1771
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 4: sign some of the artists to the label, and you

1772
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,640
Speaker 4: release records on We said, we don't really want to

1773
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:48,959
Speaker 4: do I said, well then I'm not interested. Well, they

1774
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:50,839
Speaker 4: would not have known what to do with the catalog,

1775
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 4: so they made the deal with me. Ernie Singleton, who

1776
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 4: later became the president of MCA, and that's why we closed.

1777
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,679
Speaker 4: To this day, was working for Fantas said records. Another

1778
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 4: guy by the name of Bob Orsche was working there.

1779
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 4: I released the record on the Emotions. They had a

1780
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 4: record called Shouting Out Love. I released the record I

1781
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 4: have on Isaac called hot Bed. I released a record

1782
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 4: on the Barcade called Holy Ghosts. I released the record

1783
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 4: on the Soldier and called Can't Give Up a Good Thing.

1784
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:20,800
Speaker 4: I had another act by the name of Shown Up.

1785
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:24,640
Speaker 4: And if you go seven eight should Be and you

1786
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 4: google seven eight Billboard magazine, you'll see there were four

1787
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 4: or five records on the national charts of with Stax

1788
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,840
Speaker 4: Fantasy on it. And then when I told the guy,

1789
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 4: we have an opportunity to be successful, he says, no,

1790
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 4: I don't want I said, we can be big. I

1791
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 4: said I don't want to be big, and then I

1792
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,960
Speaker 4: left the deal because I realized what time that was.

1793
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:44,559
Speaker 1: Wow.

1794
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 4: I won't go deeper than that anyway. I wasn't interested

1795
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 4: in that, So that's what happened. So after that, whoever

1796
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:56,280
Speaker 4: signed with Fantasy I left in seventy eight, after those

1797
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 4: records were released. If those records that I mentioned holy

1798
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:01,679
Speaker 4: they hit on the bar that was after Staxic Clue.

1799
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 1: I was going to ask what was the because they

1800
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:07,639
Speaker 1: were Mercury at the time, Like was that in their

1801
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,559
Speaker 1: that was just in the vaults or something that was.

1802
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:12,479
Speaker 4: I got that out of the bault, I got the

1803
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 4: help out of Asac, out of the bowl. I got

1804
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:15,760
Speaker 4: the help out of the emotions out of the boat.

1805
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: Ah.

1806
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 4: I recalled it an.

1807
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: Ah see. But because the thing is the barks era

1808
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:29,880
Speaker 1: I want to know about is again the posts, you know,

1809
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: the seventies barks But maybe you know the answer, with

1810
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:39,640
Speaker 1: the exception of Holy Ghost, why is every song they

1811
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: ever released like derivative of someone else's hit? Like did

1812
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 1: they not think that we wouldn't put you and two together?

1813
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:56,720
Speaker 1: That shine was you know, earth wind fires on your

1814
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 1: face or you know, shake it from the front might

1815
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:05,639
Speaker 1: be Shining Star, or like were they just the type

1816
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: of seventies band that would just get the forty five

1817
01:38:08,280 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: of the moment, study that forty five and figure out, Okay,

1818
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: what's our formula for that? Because literally Holy Ghost is

1819
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:19,960
Speaker 1: probably like even even on stacks, like a song like

1820
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 1: it's on the Cold Blooded records, like one of my

1821
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 1: favorite Barkas Joint, which is basically kind of derivative of

1822
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:34,280
Speaker 1: when the World's at Peace by the OJ's it's wow. No, literally,

1823
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 1: Jimmy jam and I like pretty much kept a record

1824
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:42,759
Speaker 1: of every song that the bar Ks has ever created.

1825
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:45,599
Speaker 1: Oh there's a song called a fighting fire with Fire

1826
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:50,760
Speaker 1: or the Stacks era Barkays, which you know is also

1827
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: a popular sample for hip hop. But there's almost one

1828
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 1: element in every I mean even on those earlier records,

1829
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:02,360
Speaker 1: like they're sliding in family Stones, dance to the music,

1830
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:06,280
Speaker 1: and it's like, don't stop, dance to the music. Don't stop. Like,

1831
01:39:06,320 --> 01:39:08,840
Speaker 1: were they not afraid that one day they might get

1832
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 1: caught in sort of litigation with.

1833
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 4: Being well, you understand, the guy who would ended up

1834
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 4: taking them over in total, who didn't have the control

1835
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 4: of Stax Records and then being kept in a particular

1836
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:25,840
Speaker 4: direction that records could be so long was a guy

1837
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 4: by the name of Work with Us, by the name

1838
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 4: of Alan Jones. Okay, Alan Jones became the producer, the

1839
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 4: only producer and the manager of the Barcades, and he

1840
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 4: came up with the direction that they were going to go.

1841
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 4: In matter of fact, I'm going to be sure to

1842
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:43,280
Speaker 4: get James so you can interview this.

1843
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, please do us that salad. He's that solid. Please

1844
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:48,759
Speaker 1: please please, it's done.

1845
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 4: But so Alan was the one who was giving them

1846
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 4: this this particular direction, and I would rather I won't,

1847
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 4: butch it up. I'm gonna get James and he'll he

1848
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:03,040
Speaker 4: would tell you ask them about it. Jones and Larry Dotson,

1849
01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 4: who was versatile and his vocal could could immolate those

1850
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 4: be the players or whoever.

1851
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 1: Larry Dodson is probably one of the most underrated soul cats,

1852
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 1: still in fine form with it with his but yeah,

1853
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:18,760
Speaker 1: the legendary Alan Jones, who you know, I forgot to

1854
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:22,400
Speaker 1: ask about cold Feet with Albert King and I'll play

1855
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:26,719
Speaker 1: the blues for you and all that stuffy, legendary legendary man.

1856
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: This this is such an honor to just to talk

1857
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,200
Speaker 1: to you and finally get some in depth stories from you,

1858
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:37,400
Speaker 1: because we've never seen any feature linked article on you

1859
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: or or anything. And you're You're just a genius and

1860
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:44,639
Speaker 1: a gentleman, and we thank you for being on our show.

1861
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:46,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, straight up man.

1862
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1863
01:40:47,080 --> 01:40:50,479
Speaker 3: Shout out to DJ Khalil too. I put this together again.

1864
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,919
Speaker 1: Thank you. We appreciate you doing this. Unpaid Bill Bruh,

1865
01:40:55,280 --> 01:41:00,000
Speaker 1: you missed, you missed the masterpiece of an episode. I

1866
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 1: gotta let you know yo on behalf of Sugar, Steve

1867
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 1: and font Ticolo and Laya and Unpaid Phil and the

1868
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:10,920
Speaker 1: great David Porter. Thank you so much. It's another classic

1869
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,280
Speaker 1: episode of Quest Love Supreme and we will see you

1870
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:27,760
Speaker 1: guys on the next go round. Thank you much. Love

1871
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 1: Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

1872
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1873
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:40,799
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.