1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on Hot Money. 2 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: The evidence that led to the raid was incredibly weak 3 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 2: and should have never have led to this raid to happen, 4 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: and we are still suffering from this raid. 5 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: If you want to guess about how worse would an 6 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 3: intelligence asset like marceleg be, then you would say were very. 7 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: Worthy, very very valuable as a very h It's June 8 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Jan Marcelek is in Moscow. It's been 9 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: almost two years since Waquard was exposed as a fraud, 10 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: and during these two years he's been in near constant 11 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: contact with one person in particular via the secure messaging 12 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: app Telegram. Right now, Marcelek is asking this person if 13 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: their regular career can pick up something very important for him, 14 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: something he has a hankering for dessert. We're going to 15 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: read out his messages for you. 16 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 4: On a personal note, would he have time to drop 17 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: by the Saka shop to buy two cakes for me? 18 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: Marcelek is after one of the most famous inventions of 19 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: his home city, Sacha Torte chocolate cake. From the moment 20 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: he fled Europe. This person he's asking about the cake 21 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: has been around to help him life on the run. 22 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: Hasn't always been easy for Marceleg and this friend. He's 23 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: tried when he can to offer some reassurance. Keep your 24 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: chin up, he tells Marcelec. At least the Russian women 25 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: are beautiful, especially the blondes, and Marceleg replies, don't tell me. 26 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 4: I've been there, dangerous and admittedly I never fully recovered. 27 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Is this a reference perhaps to Natalia's Lobina, the woman 28 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: on the yacht with Yan all those years ago in Nice. 29 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: For the most part, Marcelex seems in good spirits. He's 30 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: not one to take anything too seriously really, including being 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: a fugitive. 32 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 4: Being a wanted man helps to refine one's humor, it 33 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 4: might just become a little darker. 34 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: Marcelex's interlocutor has been far more than just a cake 35 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: courier and wingman. However, He's helped Marcelek establish himself in Russia, 36 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: sorted out his finances, organized his chaotic paperwork, and, perhaps 37 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: most importantly of all, he's also been a recruiter for Marcelek. 38 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: When Marcelec took heel as a fraudster and was outed 39 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: on the front page of the FT as a Russian asset, 40 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: you might have thought the jig would be up. But 41 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't the only life that was over for Marcelek. 42 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: The one he permanently said goodbye to was his ordinary one, 43 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: his life in Munich, his corporate persona. Because these telegram 44 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: messages lay bare what Marcelec has continued to get up 45 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: to on behalf of the Russian state since he disappeared 46 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: from view, Marcelek has been running intelligence operations for Russia 47 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: across Europe, not just one kind of operation, a whole 48 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: range of endeavors, aggressive, seemingly unconnected, risky. In this episode, 49 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: for the first time in this series, we get to 50 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: hear from Marceilek directly in his own words, because these 51 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: messages between Marcelek, his friend and others ended up in 52 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: the hands of police when aspiring run by Marcelek was 53 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: caught and went on trial. I'm Sam Jones from the 54 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Financial Times and Pushkin Industries. This is Hot Money, Season three, 55 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: Agent of Chaos, Episode seven, from Russia with Love. So 56 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 1: far this story has taken me to Vienna, to Munich, 57 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: to the south of France, to Tunis. But right now 58 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: here I am in Great Yarmouth. That's the sound of 59 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: a tiny little train, one of those little toy trains 60 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: going past that takes people from car parks to the seafront. 61 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: Great Yarmouth is a seaside resort on the Norfolk coast, 62 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: about three hours northeast of London. There's a beautiful sandy beach, 63 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: a pleasure pier and a fairground. The seafront is lined 64 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: with amusement arcades, a handful of grand buildings hint at 65 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: former prosperity, but there hasn't been much money in the 66 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: town for decades. It's the most in common grows place, 67 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: given what happened here and how significant it was. But 68 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: then again, in this kind of story, and in a 69 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: lot of spy fiction, two half forgotten, liminal places like 70 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: this are often at the heart of the matter. The 71 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: terraced streets off the seafront are full of guesthouses, but 72 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: many of these are boarded up. My producer Peggy and 73 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: I are here to see one guesthouse, in particular on 74 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Prince's Road, the Heyd. There it is on the right. 75 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: It's the white and blue one. Oh here at the end, Yeah, yeah, 76 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: I see that. Windows are all shuttered, curtains all drawn. 77 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: Opposite the Heyd there's a pub, so we go in, 78 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: hoping to find someone who can maybe tell us more 79 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: about what happened here on Prince's Road on a cold 80 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: February morning in twenty twenty three, where A Scott is 81 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: the landlady. She had a ringside seat and. 82 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 5: I turned up just before nine. Always get the doors 83 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 5: a and the straightaway. He saw the vade that there 84 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 5: is a big tent awning thing at the front of 85 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 5: the building. 86 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: Moira knows the rhythm of Great Yarmouth well and she's 87 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: pretty unflappable. 88 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 5: First of all, I thought someone might have been murdered, 89 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 5: but I did think, well, there's no ambulances or anything, 90 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 5: and there's no police cars. And then I saw these 91 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 5: men or women or blest out with bile Klav was on. 92 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: Earlier that morning, squads of police and security officials arrived 93 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: at Number twenty seven, heavily armed and bashed the door 94 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: in body cam footage of one of the officers shows 95 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: police streaming into the building in the dawnlight through dim 96 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: rooms on the ground floor. At the back, they found 97 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: the person they were looking for. All In Russev, a 98 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: Bulgarian man. He looks terrified, his pupils are wide. The 99 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: police officer pushes him up against a wall and holds 100 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: him there, and in the background you can hear other 101 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: officers stamping up the stairs. He stammers to the officer 102 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: restraining him. 103 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 6: I think there's the wrong place. 104 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: The Hedi is no longer a guest house. It's Roussev's home, 105 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: and it's an Aladdin's cave, or perhaps more of a 106 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: poarder's layer. It's stacked high with boxes and clutter. One 107 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: of the rooms at the back seems to be Rousev's office. 108 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: It's packed full of what police later described as a 109 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: vast amount of computer and technical hardware. 110 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 6: You've got a number. 111 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 7: Of US fees on the desk that I can see here, 112 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 7: and to the right of the desk there are a 113 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 7: number of yes, yes, devices yours ah. I have for 114 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 7: purchased some on the eBay, and I'm a repairing many 115 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 7: of those. 116 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: Russev tells them he's running an IT repair business, but 117 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: that's not true. Most of this equipment it's for surveillance. 118 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: And it's only later when technical experts begin to pour 119 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: through the stuff they've seized that they find the treasure. 120 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: The telegram messages between Marcelek and his correspondent. Because all 121 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: An Russev is the cake courier, the fan of Russian blonds, 122 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: the man who has served as Marcelec's right hand during 123 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: his exile in Moscow. There are three hundred thousand telegram 124 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: messages in total. Eighty thousand alone are between Rusev and Marcelek, 125 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: and the rest are between Russev and the agents he'd 126 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: recruited to do Marcelex bidding. A year and nine months 127 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: after the raid in Great Yarmouth, the biggest public espionage 128 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: trial in modern UK history begins in London. All in 129 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: Rusev is in the dock and alongside him of five 130 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: others like him. They're all Bulgarian nationals who had been 131 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: granted the right to live permanently in the UK. The 132 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: Crown Prosecution Service accuses them of participating in a bewildering 133 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: array of high stakes espionage operations on British soil and 134 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: across Europe. My colleague Kelen Warrell had a front row 135 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: seat for it all. She spent years reporting on security 136 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: for the ft. 137 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 8: It's very rare that they get to prosecute espionage, so 138 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 8: this is a huge deal. 139 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: There's one notable absence in the courtroom, of course. 140 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 8: I would say that Marzleck really was like a. 141 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: Sort of ghost that wanted this trial. 142 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 8: He was clearly the organizing mind, and he was there, 143 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 8: you know, in black and white in these telegram messages. 144 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: The messages between Marcelek and Russev are at the heart 145 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: of the prosecution's evidence. What's striking about them at first glance, though, 146 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: is that they're just like any other online conversation between 147 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: two admittedly slightly odd pals. 148 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 8: I mean, one thing that's quite funny is he absolutely 149 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 8: loves this bizarre laughing wombat emoji, which he uses constantly 150 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 8: when Russev says something that sort of tickles him. 151 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: Now, I felt I needed to see this for myself, 152 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: and I can actually confirm that it isn't a wombat 153 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: but a raccoon. Helen says she's no zoologist anyway, you know. 154 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 8: So they're sort of leering about women, and there are 155 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 8: often quite sort of long and tedious exchanges where they 156 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 8: pontificate about geopolitics in quite a sort of boring way. 157 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 8: You know, this is just the sort of message equivalent 158 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 8: to the manosphere. 159 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: As in this choice piece of bravado from Marceilek. 160 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 4: Apologies, I was stuck between the mafia half of Russia's ambassadors, 161 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 4: the gru that doesn't naked girls, and some deep stek 162 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 4: guys whose names no one knows. They forced me to 163 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 4: drink a bottle of gin. 164 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,359 Speaker 1: The messages found that the Hadi also reveal a closeness 165 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: between the two men. At New Year's Marcelek effusively thanks 166 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: his friend for his work, and he signs off. 167 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 4: From Russia with love. 168 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: But far more importantly, the message is exposed to Marcelek 169 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: and Roussev had working for them, And the more I 170 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: learn about them, the more it makes me wonder how 171 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: it could be that Russia, an undoubted espionage superpower, has 172 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: ended up depending on people like this as its frontline 173 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: foot soldiers. Let me take you through the Orc chart. 174 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: Marcelek was at the top of the group giving orders 175 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,239 Speaker 1: from Moscow in Great Yarmouth. Rusev was his number two, 176 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: Marcelex's ideas guy, his operations man, and Rusev then sets 177 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: things in motion via his man on the ground, his 178 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: troop leader, if you will, a man called Beza Zamberzov, 179 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: who he and Marcelex sometimes jokingly referred to as Jean 180 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: Claude van Dam. That's a reference to the nineteen nineties 181 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: movie star and Belgian beefcake. Zambazov lived in North London, 182 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: and it was there that he collected four underlings, who 183 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: he Rusev and Marcelect sometimes disparagingly referred to in their 184 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: messages as the Minions after the hapless yellow comic creatures 185 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: from the Despicable Me films. None of them were professional 186 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: intelligence operatives by day. They had perfectly ordinary jobs a driver, 187 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: a beautician, a decorator, a lab technician. Two of them 188 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: are women, Katrin Ivanova and Vanya Gaborova, and Zambazov had 189 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: rather complicated relationships with both of them. 190 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 8: He and Vanya were naked while when they were arrested 191 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 8: in bed together, so this is him and his girlfriend 192 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 8: while his long term partner, Katrina was at work at 193 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 8: the time. And actually one of the more absurd things 194 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 8: that came out in the trial was that he pretended 195 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 8: to both women that he had brain cancer, so he 196 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 8: sort of was playing them off against each other slightly, 197 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 8: but he was also using this entirely fake diagnosis to 198 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 8: essentially inveiguel them into doing things that they didn't particularly 199 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 8: want to do on the basis that he was too 200 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 8: sick and that he was going through treatment. There was 201 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 8: a completely extraordinary evidence where he was shown speaking to 202 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 8: one of them on a sort of WhatsApp call and 203 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 8: he had wound toilet paper around his head to look 204 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 8: like a bandage, sort of as if he had just 205 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 8: recently had brain surgery. 206 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: You might be thinking, as I am, that all of 207 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: this is beginning to sound a bit more farcical than threatening, 208 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 1: more Keystone Cops than Casino Royal. Because when I think 209 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: of what a good spiring probably needs to work, the 210 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: first things that spring to mind are skill, trust, and loyalty. 211 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: If you don't have those, then how can you hope 212 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: to stay secret. These guys had far too little appetite 213 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: for discretion. Sometimes they seem to be a bit carried 214 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: away by it all. 215 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 8: I think at some points they were sort of surprised 216 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 8: by the excitement of it. There's a those that were 217 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 8: shown in evidence of Gabarova using her RayBan. 218 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: Spyglasses, sunglasses that have been equipped with a miniature camera. 219 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 8: You know, she takes a photo of herself and a 220 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 8: hotel mirror sort of selfie in these glasses, and you 221 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 8: can see that there is an element of glamour here. 222 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: But Here's the thing. Despite how amateurish the minions seem 223 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: to be, the plots Marcelek and Russev tasked them with 224 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: were frighteningly ambitious. In those thousands of telegram messages I 225 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: told you about, Marcelek and his minions discussed a multitude 226 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: of plots, some staid ideas in the ether, others were 227 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: put into action in the real world. I'm going to 228 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: tell you about three of them, which struck me because 229 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: they were operations on the front line of Russia's shadow 230 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: work to manipulate its allies, so chaos amongst its enemies 231 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: and silence its critics. To understand the first, you need 232 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: to know a little bit about Kazakhstan, the largest former 233 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: state of the USSR after Russia itself. Since independence, Kazakhstan 234 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: has had a close but complicated relationship with its neighbour 235 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: and former overlord. In twenty nineteen, when there was a 236 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: change in government, Russia began to worry about Kazakhstan drifting 237 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: out of its political orbit. Enter Yan Marcelek and dominions. 238 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: Russia's intelligence services brief Marcelek on their problem, and Marcelek 239 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: he gets to work engineering a potential solution with Russev 240 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: on the agenda, putting pressure on the new Kazakh president, 241 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: making things hard for him close to home, literally by 242 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: even looking at ways to target his family. What Marcelek 243 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: describes in a telegram message to Russev as creative. 244 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 4: Ways to make their lives miserable. 245 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: Marcelex spitballs some ideas, ways he can spread some nasty rumors. 246 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 4: Maybe a deep fake porn video of the son of 247 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 4: the president. Also a honey trap for the sun when 248 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 4: he is traveling in Europe could be a fun option. 249 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: It sounds like these ideas are going down well in 250 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: Moscow when Marcelek writes to Russev, the gru. 251 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: Guys are saying will be a drama in Kazakhstan if 252 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 4: we publish this. 253 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: To be clear, because this isn't immediately obvious, the messages 254 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: show that the idea was to secretly create a problem 255 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: and then offer a phony solution to it, to set 256 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: up the president's son, and then offer the president fake 257 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: information about the people responsible, because the end goal here 258 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: was to actually strengthen diplomatic relationships between Russia and Kazakhstan 259 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: to make the new Kazakh government think it still needed 260 00:16:53,920 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: Russia's help, and that Russia was a beneficent ally thankfully 261 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: for the president's son. Marcelek and Roussev eventually settle on 262 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: a different course of action, an operation aimed at the 263 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: Kazakh Embassy in London, an operation that would actually require 264 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: a lot of careful planning for false trails to be 265 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: laid and a spectacular Kudae teatre at the end to 266 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: really grab the Kazakh government's attention on paper, a really 267 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: impressive piece of tradecraft with a lot required to pull 268 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: it off. At the center of the plan is a 269 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: protest outside the embassy, but not just any protest, something 270 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: really provocative. They discuss using drones to cover the embassy 271 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: with one hundred liters of pigs blood. They will make 272 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: it look like the pig's blood has been sprayed by 273 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: pro democracy protesters. This seems to get the green light 274 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: because Marcelek and Russev go on to agree a budget 275 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: before discussing details like how can the blood be diluted 276 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: so that it can be effectively sprayed and how can 277 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: it be mixed to glow at night. Russev seems to 278 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: be making progress. One of the minions has sent him 279 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: videos of vials of blood. In a message to Marsilek, 280 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: he tells him the quote Vampire Team are ready for tests. 281 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: Marcelek responds, bloody, glorious literally. Zamberzov and the Minions meanwhile 282 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: take it in terms to surveil the embassy to work 283 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: out the best plan of attack, including using a drone. 284 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: Rusev gets sent videos and photos from their covert reconnaissance. 285 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: It's not just this protest, though, There's a whole hinterground 286 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: that Marcelek, Rusev and the Minions have worked on building 287 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: out for the alleged perpetrators of this protest. They've drawn 288 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: up letters from this fake group to senior American and 289 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: European politicians urging them to sanction Kazakhstan. They've even booked 290 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: out a room in a pub in London under the 291 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: group's name to make it look like there was a 292 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: real planning meeting taking place for their activists. Rusev and 293 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: Zamberzov discussed creating a scene at the pub bar to 294 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: make sure witnesses remember something was going on. The Paulsin plan, 295 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: luckily for London's public hygiene officers, never goes ahead, but 296 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: the groundwork for the operation has been so successful that 297 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: it alone is actually already bearing fruit glorious. 298 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 4: News from Kazakhstan. Kazakh intelligence is in a small panic 299 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 4: and wants our Russian friends to investigate who this new 300 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 4: group of activists is. They will provide money to bribe 301 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 4: the Russians to investigate. 302 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: The thing is this operation. It's super high risk and 303 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: Marceelek seems to know it when he tells Rusev. 304 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 4: Don't want anyone outside a small circle in the GRU 305 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 4: to know about this Kazakh attack story. 306 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: Because obviously, if the Kazakh government ever found out it 307 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: was marcelect behind this and the GRU behind him deliberately 308 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: humiliating them in public and falsely claiming to be able 309 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: to help them. Well, I guess they'd be rather peeved. 310 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: I wonder how all this went down in the Kazakh 311 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: capital Astana when it came out at the trial. Then again, 312 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to intelligence operations, one thing I've learned 313 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: is that Russia very rarely seems to factor in the 314 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: cost of public shame. In another operation, the minions were 315 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: being used to daub hate symbols at various public locations 316 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: around Europe, including the Jewish Museum in Vienna. 317 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 8: They put up material that looks as if it's associated 318 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 8: with the Azov Brigade, which is obviously this group of 319 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 8: fighters in Ukraine who are said to have some sort 320 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 8: of fascist or Nazi ideology, although obviously that is entirely 321 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 8: debatable and some people claim it's not the case at all, 322 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 8: But so they are very much amplifying the Kremlin's arguments 323 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 8: and their sort of propaganda. 324 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: The intent was to generate news stories that would support 325 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: Russia's justification for its invasion of Ukraine, the narrative that Ukraine, 326 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: Austria and Europe are turning fascist, which brings me to 327 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: an even more sensitive mission that the minions were tasked 328 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: with about a year after Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine, 329 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: one which could actually help Russia on the battlefield. At 330 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: this point in the war, Russia was struggling and Ukraine 331 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: was pushing back. Marcelex sent russerv a message. He told 332 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: him he was likely to have a meeting tomorrow with 333 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: our friends. 334 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 4: Who have asked for help in Germany with mobile tracking. 335 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Marcelek tells Russev that his friends, aka Russian military intelligence, 336 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: want to try and locate seventy Ukrainians who have arrived 337 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: in Germany for training at a US air base. Marcelek 338 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: thinks the Ukrainians are there to learn how to use 339 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: Patriot air defense systems, the missiles gifted to Ukraine by 340 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: NATO allies to help defend Ukrainian civilians from Russian bombing raids. 341 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: Marcelek asks, can we use. 342 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 4: The mccatcher in Germany? We need to spy in Ukrainians 343 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 4: at a German military base. 344 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: Now you've probably never heard of an Imsey catcher, and 345 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: for good reason, because this is military grade technology worth 346 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: more than one hundred thousand pounds, and what it does 347 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: is hoover up cell phone data. It collects the individual 348 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: signatures and locations of devices near it. Rusev He's got 349 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: one at home. He's excited to put it to use. 350 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: It's just gathering dust, he tells Marslek in his quote 351 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: Indiana Jones garage. 352 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 8: Now, you can't buy an Imsey device anywhere, you know, 353 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 8: through reputable means. So we don't know how he got 354 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 8: hold of this. And it wasn't just that he managed 355 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 8: to purchase it. He also then sort of retrofitted it. 356 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: Rucev tells Marcelek he can hide the Imsey catcher in 357 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: his car. 358 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 8: So he managed to sort of buy a second hand 359 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 8: Chrysler and he fitted the IMZY into the boot of 360 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 8: the chrysler and he wired it up with a red 361 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 8: button on the steering wheel that pretty much said, you know, 362 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 8: press here to activate the IMZ. So he was sort 363 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 8: of hutting together these different bits of hardware that he'd 364 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 8: managed to acquire. 365 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: As the planning develops, Russev sets up a telegram group 366 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: chat to loop in the Minions. He writes that he 367 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: wants them to quote go on a tour in Germany 368 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: for one or two days. Russev wants Zambazov an Aminion 369 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: to do areki to maybe see if there's an apartment 370 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: they can rent near the base and a discrete spot 371 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: close to its fence where he can park his imsymobile. 372 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: The plan was to set up the imsycatcher there for 373 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: several weeks, to leave it running and to collect as 374 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: much cell phone data from people on the base as possible, 375 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: and then to give all this data to Russia so 376 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: that Russia would be able to locate these trained Ukrainians 377 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: and kill them. Now, if you were a military intelligence 378 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: officer from the GI I'm not sure you'd be able 379 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: to undertake this operation even with all the training and 380 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: skills in the world, because in recent years European intelligence 381 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: agencies have been doing all they can to track Russian 382 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: agents at work on the continent, and they're pretty good 383 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: at it. Hundreds of suspected Russian intelligence operatives have been expelled. 384 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: But if you're a Bulgarian beautician from London or a 385 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: mobile phone repair man from Great Yarmouth, who will be 386 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: paying attention when you drive across a border or end 387 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: up renting an Airbnb in a small town in Germany. 388 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: This whole plot it luckily got stopped in its tracks 389 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: because hours before it was due to begin, police busted 390 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: down all in Roussev's front door. But the trial revealed 391 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: that the Russian state wasn't just using Marcelek and the 392 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: Bulgarians to help wage its murderous war against Ukrainians. It 393 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: was also using them to help in its war against 394 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: its his own citizens. High Roman, oh, I letit on 395 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: on everything, Yes, okay, hi, Hello, thanks very much for 396 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: speaking with us a poem. I know it must be 397 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: quite difficult circumstances at the moment, but we really appreciate it. 398 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: Roman Debrokatov is an investigative reporter and the founder of 399 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: the Insider, an independent media organization with a focus on Russia. 400 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: He helped uncover the identity of the Russian agents behind 401 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: the Botch Saltbury poisonings in twenty eighteen, and he helped 402 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: reveal the attempted murder in twenty twenty of then Russian 403 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: opposition leader Alexey Navalni using the poison Novichok, all of 404 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: which has made him pretty unpopular with Russian President Vladimir Putin. 405 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: Roman currently lives in an undisclosed location. He's under police 406 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: protection and reveals as little information about his movements as possible. 407 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,239 Speaker 1: So we didn't meet in person, but once upon a 408 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: time he lived in Russia. 409 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 410 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 6: Well, actually I'm in Russia every night, because like literally 411 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 6: every night I have a dream that I'm there, and 412 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 6: that usually it's one scenario that I'm doing something ordinary, 413 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 6: like I'm preparing to go to play football, or I'm 414 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 6: i don't know, like speaking with my relatives or something, 415 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 6: and suddenly at some point I realize that something is wrong. 416 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 6: I just remember that actually I can't be now in Russia. 417 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 6: This is impossible, because they are going to arrest me, 418 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 6: and like this is surreal as it's supposed to be 419 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 6: in a dream. A feeling of like what is happening 420 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 6: to you cannot be real. 421 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, Roman had to flee his home, 422 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: his friends, and his family. 423 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 6: It was a choice between being killed or in prison. 424 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 6: I didn't know all this time. I still don't know 425 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 6: what was the plan. And the other auction was just 426 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 6: to have a big risk, but try to get real freedom. 427 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, he crept across a 428 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: sunflower field, out of Russia and into Ukraine. 429 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 6: The second after I crossed the border, I felt, not 430 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 6: even psychologically, but even physiologically. I felt how big was 431 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 6: the broaden that fell. 432 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: From his shoulders, except that in Europe he wouldn't be 433 00:27:53,800 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: entirely safe either. It was November twenty twenty one, several 434 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: months after Roman had left Russia behind. He finished a 435 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: meeting with his team in Budapest, said goodbye to his colleagues, 436 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: and made his way to the airport. But as he 437 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: waited to board his flight to Berlin, he didn't realize 438 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: that he had company because one of the minions was 439 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: waiting to board the plane too. She would be sat 440 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: next to him, not by coincidence, but by design. As 441 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: he settled into his seat, he had no idea that 442 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: someone was watching. 443 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 6: Him if we didn't even have an icon that she 444 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 6: had a camera in her shoulder so she could watch everything. 445 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: As it turned out, weeks earlier, Rusev had gained access 446 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: to a pan European flight booking system used by most 447 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: major airlines, and that meant that Ruceven Marcelek could put 448 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: their minions next to anyone they wanted on any flight 449 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: across the continent and beyond all of this. It's revealed 450 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: in the messages sent back and forth between the group. 451 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: On the telegram, Marcelek was delighted. 452 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: The future flights are amazing data. I absolutely love that 453 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 4: airline system. 454 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: Roman is settling into seat for A, and Russev's undercover girl, 455 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: as he refers to her, is in seat for B. 456 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: She'll be taking lots of selfies during the flight, Rusev 457 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: jokes in a message to Marcelek. Later, he sent Marcelek 458 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: an update. Our agent was very, very observant, he wrote. 459 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: She had even watched Roman unlock his iPhone and remembered 460 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: the code. Marcelek responded with a grinning emoji and. 461 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 4: The words afraid of Noovichok. 462 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: Indeed, stalking Roman on this flight wasn't the end of 463 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: the operation against him. Marcelex seemed to have impressed the 464 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: higher ups in Moscow. Now his team had proved they 465 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: could get close to Roman undetected, it looked like they 466 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: be offered more work, and this time it might involve 467 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: more responsibility. The following year, Marcelec wrote to Rusev. 468 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 4: We might get the opportunity to kidnap r D any 469 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 4: ideas how to do this. 470 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: Rusev confirmed that if they got the green light for 471 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: the kidnapping, he had a team ready in waiting. 472 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 4: A successful operation on British ground would be amazing after 473 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 4: the fuck up scrip Ale stuff. 474 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,719 Speaker 1: This is a reference to the Salisbury poisonings, which had 475 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: ultimately failed because the target was still alive. If Marcelett 476 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: could carry out a successful operation against a target in 477 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: the UK, it would be a huge coup. They brainstormed 478 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: other ways to harm Roman in case Moscow might want 479 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: a more radical intervention, like spraying him with the nerve 480 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: agent VX or burning him alive in the street. It 481 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: wasn't until the Bulgarian cell was busted by UK police. 482 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: That Roman found out about any of this, it made 483 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: him realize that possibly there would never be a place 484 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: where he could escape the predations of his own government. 485 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: Yet for all of that, he has kept remarkably composed. 486 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 6: I think that the persons cannot be like scared for 487 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 6: too long. But like physiologically, this is a feeling that 488 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 6: you can have for a shutdown, to mobilize yourself, and 489 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 6: then it's just a Dournes off. 490 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: Perhaps he's just very brave, but perhaps two he knows 491 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: that being intimidated it's exactly what Russia wants him to 492 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: feel and for others like him to feel too. 493 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 6: So the death threat of investigative illness is still much 494 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 6: lower than in a Ukraine army. So we shouldn't a 495 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 6: bit too depressed about the supation. 496 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: That's a very noble thing of you to say. Given 497 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: that it your life must have changed completely. I mean, 498 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: not only have you left your homeland country you were 499 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: born in, but also now as you've just said, you're 500 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, you're having to move around. You can't talk 501 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: about you know where you are. Your life is very disrupted. 502 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: What can you tell us about the ongoing threat to you? 503 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 6: Yeah? 504 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: So I know that. 505 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 6: Russian intelligence is still dusking other criminals to look for you. 506 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: Roman has been reporting on Marcelect too, and has continued 507 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: despite becoming a target of his aspiring And he's noticed 508 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: a sort of dark parallel. 509 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 6: Well, like people are hunting each other from different parts 510 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 6: of the world. So he came to Russia. I can 511 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 6: do Europe from Russia. I'm sorry, and arrested in absence 512 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 6: in Russia. The same with Masalik in Europe. So yeah, 513 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 6: we have some kind of symmetric to each other. 514 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: On the twelfth of May twenty twenty five, the Central 515 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: Criminal Court in London passed its judgment. All six accused 516 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: were found guilty of conspiracy to spy. The shortest sentence 517 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: handed down was for five years in jail. The longest 518 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: against Russev was for nearly eleven years. You might think, 519 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: hearing all this a tale of aggressive, complicated covert operations 520 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: entrusted to amateurs with little regard for risk or consequences, 521 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: that Russia is pretty out of control, And in one 522 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: sense you would be right. Many European governments are genuinely 523 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: concerned that in recent years Russia has, as Britain's intelligence 524 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: chief told the ft last year, Gone Ferrel. Only the 525 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: rather alarming thing is that this chaos, this risk taking, 526 00:33:50,960 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: it's by design. Coming up on the season finale of 527 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: Hot Money. 528 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 9: They are former intelligence officers and military people with an 529 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 9: intelligence war mindset who have now turned the tradecraft of 530 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 9: the KDB into the statecraft of the Russian state. 531 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 8: Just shows that these people were motivated by money. They 532 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 8: do whatever work was necessary by whoever was prepared to 533 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 8: pay them. 534 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: Hot Money is a production of The Financial Times and 535 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. It was written and reported by me Sam Jones. 536 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: The senior producer and co writer is Peggy Sutton. Our 537 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: producer is Izzy Carter. Our researcher is Marine Saint. Our 538 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: show is edited by Karen shakerge fact checking by Kira Levigne. 539 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: Sound design and mastering by Jake Gorsky and Marcelo de Olivia, 540 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: with additional sound design by Izzy Carter. Original music from 541 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: Matthias Bossi and John Evans of Stellwagen Symphonet. Our show 542 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: art is by Sean Carney. Our executive producers are Cheryl Brumley, 543 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: Amy Gains McQuaid and Matthew Garahan. Additional editing by Paul Murphy. 544 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Ruler Klaffe, Dan McCrumb, Laura Clark, Alistair Mackey, 545 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: Manueli Saragosa, Nigel Hanson, Vicky Merrick, Eric Sandler, Morgan Ratner, 546 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: Jake Flanagan, Jacob Goldstein, Sarah Nix, and Greta Cohne. I'm 547 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: Sam Jones. Hi again. I just wanted to let you 548 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: know about two actions to previous episodes. In episode three, 549 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: we reported that Marcelec told Killian Kleinschmidt that he arrived 550 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: in Palmira in Syria in a Meek eight. That was 551 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: an error. Killian only recalls Marcelex saying that he arrived 552 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: in Syria in a helicopter, and we're not exactly sure 553 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: what kind. In episode four, we said that Marcelek left 554 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: home just before taking his final school exams at age seventeen. 555 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: In fact, he was aged eighteen when he left home. 556 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: I want to take a moment to thank you for 557 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: being a pushkin Plus subscriber. I hope you're enjoying hot money. 558 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: Be sure to take advantage of all pushkin Plus has 559 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: to offer, including ad free access to all pushkin shows, 560 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: bonus episodes, early access, exclusive binges, and full audiobooks. After 561 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: this episode