WEBVTT - Interview with David Soza: polymath, engineer, and wanderer. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.840 Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.879 host Scott Brady and my co host Matt. Scott is 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.280 not with us today because it's his birthday, So happy birthday, Matt. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.040 Thanks for being such an awesome co host and friend. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.279 You have made such a difference in this podcast. So 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.119 thanks for being you, and happy birthday. 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:21.320 Man. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.600 And I have a good friend and a wonderful guest today, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.400 Dave Sosa. Dave has been literally my neighbor next door 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.360 runs a company called turn Overland and they bring in 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.800 windows and doors and other accessories for vans and campers, 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.920 et cetera. I really look at Dave as a polymath. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.680 He's really one of the few that I have met 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.519 in my life that has managed to create mastery in 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.400 so many different levels of his life. And as we're 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.840 going to talk about today, that has really come from 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.120 his experiences, and that's going to be kind of a 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.200 thread that we're going to have through this conversation. 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.600 So David, thank you so much for being on the podcast. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.720 God, it is really an honor to be here. I'll 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.200 tell you, I've been a fan of the podcast since 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.880 the very first episode, so I never thought that I 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.720 would be sitting here in this seat, but it really 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:07.480 is an honor. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.080 To be You're so happy. Yeah, you're so welcome. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:10.400 Now. 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.520 I just so appreciate you being on the podcast. 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.840 And we were just talking right before we started recording 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:17.559 about what are you drinking today? 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.360 I'm drinking Egyptian licorice tea. This is actually given to 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.880 me as a gift. I like lyric teese. Oh nice, 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.720 this is really good stuff. He keeps my throat clear. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.160 Oh okay, now that makes sense and my voice clear. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.319 Because you also seem to enjoy coffee too, so maybe 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.039 you have your coffee, and you have your coffee in 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:34.520 the morning and. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.000 They moved to teas after that. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:36.679 That's exactly what. 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:37.640 Oh that's smart. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:38.520 Yeah. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.680 When I first started the business, Jeremy Edgar was one 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.640 of my first employees and he had grown up. Part 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.960 of his youth was in Argentina, so he drank mate 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.280 tea every day and he wouldn't drink coffee. He would 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.240 walk around with this little bowl with a and they 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.080 called it a bombijia, which is the straw, and he'd 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.760 be walking around drinking his mate tea for most of 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.040 the day. And he and what he liked about it 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.160 was he never really had that kind of caffeine crash. So, yeah, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.320 that's smart. And so many travelers tend to drink tea 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.840 over coffee they've maybe learned in the long hauls. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.160 Yeah. Well, and it's also easier because they don't have 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.600 the cleanup and so forth. Yeah, that's true. Tea bag. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.680 Oh, that's so tre it's easier to clean up. That 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.600 makes that makes a lot of sense. We're going to 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.680 take a brief break and we will be right back. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.840 This week's episode is supported in part by Icamper to 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.760 make innovative hardshell and soft sided roof tents that are 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.960 designed to survive long term overland use. Their revolutionary X 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.600 cover won the Overland Journal Editor's Choice Award, eliminating the 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.480 bulky PBC cover and also allowing for the fitment of 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.720 crossbars for carrying bikes and kayaks. Their Skycamp Mini is 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.200 another award winning design that provides a hard shell tent 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.360 in the footprint of a much smaller clamshell model. This 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.480 is the perfect solution for smaller vehicles or on vehicles 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.680 where rack space is dedicated to other systems. I Camper 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.360 believes that the best times are those spent traveling discovering 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.160 the world with those you love most. You can find 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.119 out more about their quality tents at icamper dot com. Well, 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.600 what I think it would be fun to make the 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.519 listeners aware of some things that you have done, and 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.080 one of the ones that many of the listeners will 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.920 know of is the Top Truck Challenge, and maybe give 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:24.880 us the background on that. I can't remember if you 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:26.680 were in the first year or one of the very 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.960 first years of the event, and so tell us what 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.639 you drove and how that experience was for you. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.720 So I was in. I was in the very first event, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.120 which was really something. And what had happened was just 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.000 to back up a little bit, I'd taken a trip 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.040 around the US and a little Honda Civic, and I 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.400 came back in nineteen eighty seven and I decided that 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.640 I really wanted to do more of this, right, so 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.520 I wanted to build a vehicle that was even more capable. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.240 So I started this in late nineteen eighty seven, and 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.000 I finished the vehicle I think in nineteen ninety two 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.240 or ninety three, so many years it took me to 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.720 build this. But some friends of mine had taken a 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.400 photograph of the t and they'd send it to Four 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:04.120 Wheeler Magazine because they had heard that, you know, they 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:05.880 were going to have this new event. They were looking 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.320 for contestants and all this stuff. So this was unbeknownst 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.000 to me. And there was something like there were three 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.360 hundred and some applicants, I guess, and out of the 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.720 three hundred and sun they chose ten that they wanted 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:17.240 there and I was one of them. So I get 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.279 this letter in the mail from Four Wheeler Magazine about 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.239 something that I wasn't even sure what it was about. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.240 And in the beginning, I wasn't sure that I wanted 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.200 to do it because it didn't seem like the right 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.719 venue for me, you know. I mean this Four Wheeler 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.120 Magazine was a magazine that I liked to read, and 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.039 I was into four wheeling for sure. Yeah, but what 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.280 I built really wasn't a four wheel drive vehicle in 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.039 that sense. It was an expeditionary vehicle, is what I 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.800 called it. And you would call it an overlanding vehicle. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.279 Now the word didn't exist. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.200 Then, certainly wasn't properly used yet, no exactly. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:49.880 So I thought, well, you know, this doesn't make a 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:51.600 lot of sense. It's like taking a motor home to 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.440 an autocross rate. What the hell am I going to 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:54.800 do with that? 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:55.400 Yeah? 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.640 So, but I did decide to go because I thought, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.719 you know, this is a chance for me to really 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.160 test that aspect of the vehicle. And so it was 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.440 an opportunity. And I had just gotten the vehicle running. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.160 I'd hardly had a chance to drive it, so I 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:07.760 hadn't had a chance to shake it out, and I 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.000 was just you know, I wasn't even used to driving 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.000 it yet. You know that's a big deal. Yeah, being 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.400 able to drive the vehicle, being really accustomed to. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:15.560 The vehicle is sure. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.839 So I took a vehicle that I was unaccustomed with, 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.400 that had never been tested to a contest with some 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.880 of the best in the country. Yeah, And so it 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.800 was kind of a gutsy, maybe a stupid move, but 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:28.640 I really felt good about that. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:34.000 So and you, as I recall, you won Best Engineered 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.679 on that event, and that had to have felt really 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.200 good because I would certainly, as one of your many talents, 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.400 I would certainly describe you as an engineer, and I 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.599 believe that that is what you started your professional career as. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.840 And you worked with Intel for many years. So how 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.000 long did you work with Intel? 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:52.960 I worked for Intel for fourteen years. 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:54.440 Fourteen years, well, and I. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:59.039 Worked in the tech industry a total of about eighteen years. Okay, yeah, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:00.679 so a long time in the tech industry. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.080 And then when we were talking earlier, you mentioned that 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.400 Intel was giving people sabbaticals and you took some time off. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.400 And what was some of the first things that started 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.200 to change for you as a traveler from those maybe 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.400 the early backpacking trips and that early sabbatical that you made. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.080 What were some of those lessons that you drew from 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:23.160 those experiences. 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.719 I think that I was really starting to question my 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.560 life's direction by seven years into my profession, and I 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.560 really started to see that the things that fed my 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.640 soul I really wasn't getting from my work. And so 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.440 the trip that I took at the seven year point 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.640 was the chance for me to really kind of evaluate 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.320 those things. I'd always been very comfortable in nature. I 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.600 liked the outdoors. I love to travel, I love the 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.240 sense of adventure. And even though I was very successful 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.719 in what I did and it was very interesting and 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.359 I was working with some of the most intelligent people possible, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.400 I just wasn't finding the satisfaction in sure. So Yeah, 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.400 the trip around the country was a little over three months, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.600 a little over fourteen thousand miles. Else it's a lot 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.080 of driving in three months of driving well, And it 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.080 was in a little Honda Civic that I had actually 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.080 set up for autocross racing because I've always liked vehicles, 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.800 and I bought a Honda crx Si. Those are fun, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.640 and I had it set up for autocross racing and 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.440 it was a blast. But that was the car that 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.080 I took around the country, tiny hatchback, perfect and I 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:20.600 just I lived out of the car. I didn't spend 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.600 a single night in a hotel. I did spend a 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.440 few nights with friends around the country that I knew, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.440 but other than that, I was in the car the 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.160 whole time. Wow. And it was a very sparse existence. 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.120 And it was some of the best time of my 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.920 life and certainly one of the most transformational times in 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.400 my life, because over the period of those months, I really, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.480 I really was able to nail down the things that 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.000 were important to me in life. Yeah, none of them 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.560 were material. Yeah, And so when I came back, I 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.120 was pretty much committed to making changes and it took 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.040 a long time, but I did make those changes and 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.560 I incorporated them into my life. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.320 Yeah, it's been fascinating to hear some of those other 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.520 stories that came later. And it seems like that you've 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.240 had these moments of time where you've either been able 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.720 to be involved with a company like Intel, and then 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.600 you go through this, through this journey maybe in the 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.960 wilderness to a degree, right, Yeah, and then you come 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.560 up with another idea that consumes your creative efforts, and 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.120 then it seems like you come back into the wilderness again. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.360 And as I remember you mentioning that you spent quite 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.400 some time in the wilderness of Wyoming, is that is 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.480 such an interesting story. What brought you to decide to 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.800 literally go solo off the grid completely into the middle 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.280 of nowhere? And then what did you learn from that experience? 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.960 So there again, and you're right about that. I have 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:39.920 gone through these cycles, and that was, I guess the 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.240 second major cycle that I went through. I'd done some 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.679 engineering consulting, and I'd had a couple of businesses at 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.560 that point, but I was really at a turning point 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.520 in my life where again I was searching for meaning, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.520 if you will, and I decided that I needed to 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.840 take a time out and I needed to do something 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.720 really solitary. Yeah, a large extent. So I got involved 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.200 with this rebuilt property care tape. And there are people 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.640 out there that have these large tracks of remote land. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.600 They want somebody out there to kind of keep an 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.600 eye on things. And these are jobs that nobody wants 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.200 because they're hard, they're scary, they don't pay anything. I mean, 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.600 it's you know, it's a miserable deal. So I got 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:19.160 those jobs easily. Yeah, so as I'll take them. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:19.280 So. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.480 Yeah, the thing in Wyoming, there was a guy that 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.720 owned a twenty one square mile ranch. There was an 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.480 old homestead on it that was at the bottom of 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.000 a valley. The homestead was built in I think eighteen 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.199 ninety or eighteen ninety one. You know, none of the 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.280 buildings were habitable at this point, but he wanted to 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.160 start to do some restoration on him and I said 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:34.920 I would work on that. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:35.280 Yeah. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.200 I lived out there for an entire summer. I moved 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.360 in early May in the middle of a snowstorm. That 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.160 was the beginning of it for me, and spent the 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.120 whole summer out there. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.480 And did you find that, I mean maybe it's the 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.360 combination of that. But what did the physical work do 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.280 for you? Was that something that you enjoyed, and what 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.440 did you learn from that? And then I would suspect 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.199 that you probably had a lot of time for stillness 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.880 and my personal thought and what you learn from that 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:01.880 quiet time? 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.320 Right, Well, it was a lot of physical work, for sure. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.920 I was pretty exhausted at the end of each day. 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.760 And it was also the most solitude that I'd ever 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.760 experienced in my life. I mean, even the times when 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.839 I've done a lot of solo traveling and I've done 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.040 a lot of backpacking solo, but they've been for a 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.480 few days at a time, or a week, you know, 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:20.360 maybe even up to two weeks. But we're talking about 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.480 an entire summer without with hardly any human contact, and 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.480 that was a much different thing. And you really you 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:28.920 really get inside your own head in that time. You know, 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.920 there's a period of time where you don't feel it 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.160 so much. And then beyond that, you really you really 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:35.960 have to learn to live with yourself, and you really 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.440 have to understand yourself. You have to understand your fears 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.680 and face them. You have to understand your anxieties and 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.280 face them. So I think that it gave me confidence 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.640 actually in myself. And it could have gone either way. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.679 I suppose I could have gone screaming into the night, 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.560 you know. But I found that I could count on myself, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.800 and I found that I wasn't the worst company, and 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.400 it gave me a chance to really sort through a 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.360 lot of things that I was out there to do. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.840 And you know, by the way, where I was, there 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.520 was no communication of any kind. There was no cell phone, 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.560 there was no internet, there was no anything. And so 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.400 not only was I without human contact, but I was 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.199 without any sort of safety line. Yeah, so if a 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.439 rattlesnake got me, or if an animal got me, or 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.480 if I fell and broke a leg, it could be 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.240 weeks before I was found, if I was ever found. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.520 Sure, Yeah, you may have just gone back into the 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:24.400 environment in a. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.319 Way, right might have. I might have just gone back 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:27.040 into the environment. 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:27.880 That's interesting. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.800 When I first got out of the Air Force, I 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.160 knew that I didn't want to move back to California 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.080 where I grew up, and I moved onto my aunt 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.520 and uncle's ranch, and it was a fifty six thousand 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.319 acre ranch and there were people there, my aunt and 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.960 uncle were there, and my wife at the time was 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.920 there and everything else. But it was some of my 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.640 best memories because you would wake up in the morning 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.160 and you'd put a saddle on a horse and you 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.360 would ride fence line and it was just it was 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.240 actually a very beautiful existence. And I knew it was 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.480 not what I wanted to do with my life, but 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.720 to do that for a year and a half while 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.440 I was going, all I was doing was working on 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.600 the ranch and going to college, and that was I 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.600 learned a lot about myself during that time. 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:11.679 So I think it's good for it. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.520 And maybe that's what draws so many of us as 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.960 overlanders to the outdoors, to the back country, is this 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.920 idea of let's get remote, Let's get some stillness, even 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:22.840 if it's with just the people that we love, but 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.320 get some stillness, get some time in our heads, and 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.520 figure out that we actually like our own company, and 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.720 we build some confidence that we could then apply to 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.120 life after that fact. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.640 Yeah, I think there's really I think there's really a 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.040 couple of aspects of that. One is that you need 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.560 to change the scenery because you need a change of 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.040 reference frame for your life. You know, if you wake 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.080 up every morning, you look out the same window, you 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.280 see the same things, and after a while, you know, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.600 your brain just naturally doesn't see anything. Yeah. But if 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.640 you wake up every morning and you look at it, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:52.960 and you look out a different window and you see 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.520 something different than it forces you to assimilate things in 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.560 a new way. It will bring things to you that 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.000 you wouldn't have ordinarily learned. And then the stillness is 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.720 the other part of this, and that is the assimilation 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.880 of what you've learned. In other words, you learn a 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.360 lesson and then you have to internalize it, and that 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.760 comes through the stillness. Yeah. So travel allows us both 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.880 of those. It allows us a new frame of reference, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.760 and it allows us the time and the luxury to 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:18.800 assimilate those things. 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:20.280 Yeah, and oftentimes we don't. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:26.160 We're so bombarded with communications and entertainment and a distraction 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.600 that we really don't have that time to be still 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.880 and learn the lessons and realize that we've gained a 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.000 lot of confidence as. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.240 Travelers or whatever else. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.679 Now, coming back a little bit to the top truck challenge, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.400 what were some of the things from that vehicle that 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.640 you realized worked really well and you would want to 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.880 incorporate into future projects, and then maybe what were some 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.400 things that you realize that you wouldn't incorporate into future projects. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.400 Well, of course, even back then, I had a real 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.000 appreciation of the value of keeping a vehicle light, keeping 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.320 the center gravity low, and those sorts of things. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.000 And what was the vile that you had for that. 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.480 Started out with a started out being a seventy three 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.520 Ford f two fifty. But I mean from there, you know, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.520 it went down to a bare frame. The frame got 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.640 severely modified. Parts came in from all over the place. 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.480 I mean, it almost was a handmade vehicle by the 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.640 time it was done. Wow. Only the only things I 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.320 used off the original vehicle were I think the cab itself, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:25.040 the doors, and the frame. Wow. And that's about it. Wow. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.480 Everything else came from somewhere else. The motor came from 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.720 somewhere else. The transmission, a lot of the suspension I 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.120 designed and built myself, a lot of the chassis work 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.240 I designed myself. A lot of engineering in that truck. Yeah, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.920 a lot of time, a lot of handwork. And the 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.560 funny thing was they didn't have a lot of money 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.480 at the time, so I built a lot of that 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.200 using very crude tools. You know, I didn't have like 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.280 a big machine shop and all this capability laser cutting, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.120 this and that. Everything hand cut and you know, stick welding, 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.120 which I mean, it is amazing that I was able 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.600 to put together what I did, but but I did so. Yeah, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.760 So I think that, you know, just the balance of everything, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.360 just the fact that it was a balanced vehicle sure 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.600 in terms of the suspension, the engine and everything. That 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.640 nothing overpowered anything else, right, And I think some of 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.680 that came from I've done a lot of different automotive ventures. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.040 Like like I mentioned, I autocross raced and did some 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.520 other types of racing. I raced motorcycles as well. I 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.320 learned a lot from all my other automotive ventures and 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.400 I incorporated those into my truck because I wanted my 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.880 truck to handle well, I wanted to drive well. It 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.120 needed to be a multipurpose type vehicle. Ultimately, I wanted 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.000 it to be able to endure. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.200 Yeah, survive something like the top truck challenge. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.600 Right, exactly, right, because there were a number of challenges 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.440 and they were, you know, they were very very difficult. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.400 A lot of the things were very difficult and certainly 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.440 not suited for something that was specialized this mind. Here's 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.560 the interesting thing about it. I completed every challenge except 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.160 for one. There was only one challenge that I decided 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.720 not to account and that was a really steep hill climb, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.440 and I was my carburetor really wasn't able to function 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.520 on that steep of a hill. If it had been 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.160 a little bit shorter hill, I would have made it. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.400 But it was a long hill, it was pretty technical 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.240 and it was very steep. Sure, and I saw one 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.200 vehicle nearly roll on it. It was a guy in 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.360 a Unimog that got halfway up and couldn't make it. Yeah, 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.800 he tried to get down and ended up sideways, and 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.240 we started clear now I mean people run it because 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.720 we thought that damn unimog was coming down. It was 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.200 going to clear a wide path. But so after that, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.160 I decided, you know, it just wasn't risk. It wasn't 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:25.360 worth resking my vehicle. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.920 Sure, sure, something you'd work so hard to build, right. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:29.920 Exactly right. I wanted to live to fix that and 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:31.960 go another day. And by the way, one of the 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:33.520 first things I did when I got back was I 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:38.120 ripped off that carburetor and I engineered a fuel injection 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.560 system for it. Yeah, so that's one thing that I 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.760 learned for sure mechanically. Yeah. 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:43.800 In fact, that's funny. 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.480 One of my first off road vehicles that I had 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.040 was a nineteen fifty three M thirty eight A one 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.880 jeep and it had a two eighty nine V eight 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.920 swap in it, which is common for that vehicle, and 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.560 I had carburetors on it in the beginning, and it 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.280 just I was constantly climbs and getting stuck because of 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.560 the I mean, I wasn't a very good driver either, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:06.879 but you know, I was learning so much, but the 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.520 vehicle wasn't helping. And when I went to fuel injection 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.359 on that, it just totally changed the way that I 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.000 could operate operate the jeep. It really made a big difference. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.160 But it's funny how some carburetors, though, work great. I mean, 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.000 I had a nineteen eighty four Toyota pickup that had 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.320