1 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co editor in chief 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: of Variety Today. My guests are producers Brad Simpson and 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: Nita Jacobson. The pair are writing high right now off 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: the success of the FX limited series Love Story John F. 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: Kennedy Junior and Carolyn Bissett. The Ryan Murphy produce series 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: aired its powerful conclusion on March twenty sixth. I spoke 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: with Jacobson and Simpson a few days before the finale 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: aired as they absorbed the impact that Love Story had. 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,639 Speaker 1: The show definitely touched a nerve in pop culture, sparking 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: a wave of nostalgia for Finn to Sekl America. You 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: can hear the joy in Simpson and Jacobson's voices that 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: they delivered a show that broke through to become that 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: rare thing, a show that everybody's watching and talking about 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: all at the same time in real time. Our conversation 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,919 Speaker 1: also dives into the state of the development marketplace in Hollywood, 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: why their alliance with FX and Ryan Murphy has been 19 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: so fruitful for the past decade, and why they are 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: active supporters of the producer's united effort within the creative community. 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: But mostly Simpson and Jacobson extol the experience of bringing 22 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: Love Story to life. They credit Murphy's instincts and the 23 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: work of their creator, executive producer Connor Hines, finale director 24 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Anthony Hemingway, as well as Love Story stars Sarah Pidgeon 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: and Paul Anthony Kelly co stars Grace Schomer, Constance Zimmer, 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: Jessica Harper, and Moore. If you've enjoyed Love Story, you'll 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: really enjoy this conversation. But fair warning if you haven't 28 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: seen the finale, stop listening because the conversation includes numerous spoilers. 29 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: But before we hear from Jacob's at Simpson, let's get 30 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: some perspective from Love Story stars Sarah Pigeon and Paul 31 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: Anthony Kelly. This interview was done as part of Variety's 32 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: cover story on Love Story that was published February fourth 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: in print and online. Here the two stars talk about 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: what it was like to put themselves back in time 35 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: into a different era of celebrity mania, and that's followed 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: by my conversation with Nina and Brad. 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: What we were trying to accomplish in this series was 38 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: the interior lives of these very public figures. 39 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: I think that was sort of overarching me. 40 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 4: My goal of trying to take in as much as 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 4: I could about who Carolymbus that was and then infuse 42 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 4: that knowledge into what it might have happened behind closed doors. 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: So I think that was really my goal. 44 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 5: They were intense scenes. Being surrounded by the paparazzis or 45 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 5: people that played the paparazzis. Your senses are so heightened 46 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 5: and you almost collapse into yourself. They were tough and 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 5: very real and if that was their life day and 48 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 5: day out, Oh my gosh, yeah, oh thank you. 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: About to say that, I feel like the intensity of 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 2: someone who's inhabiting a world that's fabricated for the sake 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: of television. In those moments, I think it gave me 52 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 2: an appreciation for what that intensity must have felt like 53 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: without the safety of an ad right there. 54 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: You know, they were intense. It really made you understand 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: just how hunted I think at some of. 56 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: My Sakrat Simpson and Nina Jacobson. Thank you so much 57 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: for joining me today. 58 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 6: Nice to be here. 59 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: Thanks for having us. 60 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,839 Speaker 1: We are talking here coming off the heels of the 61 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: conclusion of Love Story, John F. Kennedy Junior and Carolyn Bissett. 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: It is quite a journey, and I will tell you 63 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: it is quite a journey for those of us that 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: remember it firsthand as a much younger adult back then, 65 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: seeing that time and place of that era of America, 66 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: which seems so distant in so many ways, seeing it 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: writ large on screen, and boy, episode nine, you really 68 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: brought it to a profound conclusion. Really, congratulations, it was 69 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: beautifully handled. What did you find most significant about the 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: finale episode? Was there anything that was challenging to capture 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: or shoot? 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: The plane? 73 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 6: Definitely was something that we talked about quite a bit. 74 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 6: We always knew that we were going to have a 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 6: structure where they passed away halfway through and we would 76 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 6: be left with the aftermath. But there was a lot 77 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 6: of conversation about how to handle the plane, whether we 78 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 6: should show the plane at all. We didn't want to 79 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 6: be gratuitous, We didn't want to turn it into a 80 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 6: crazy thrill ride. We spent so much time loving these 81 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 6: characters and knowing that this was going to end the 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 6: way it did. We wanted to end it a way 83 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 6: that honored them, and so really it was about how 84 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 6: do we tone that plane ride and show enough of 85 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 6: what happened on the flights that people understand without ending 86 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 6: in some sort of crazy spectacle. And the thing that 87 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 6: we learned along the way is that they didn't know 88 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 6: that they were about to crash into the water. When 89 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 6: they crashed, that they knew something was wrong and they 90 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 6: were worried, but the way spatial disorientation works that it 91 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 6: wasn't like they were going to be screaming and falling 92 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 6: into the water, that actually they died instantly. 93 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: Nina, anything stand out to you in terms of in 94 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: terms of the finale, getting it done, getting it just right. 95 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 7: I think our cast is an embarrassment of riches, you know, 96 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 7: particularly the women who are left in the wake of 97 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 7: this devastating loss is like unimaginable loss. I just really 98 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 7: applaud our writers, Connor Julie and Kim Julie Wiener and 99 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 7: Kim Rosenstock and obviously Connor Hines for like, I've so 100 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 7: moved by how dimension all these women are in this 101 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 7: impossible situation and how slowly they've built these relationships, a 102 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 7: relationship that is, they're forced together in this impossible moment. 103 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 7: That is it's beyond imagination. And I think the complexity 104 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 7: of the performances from the women, like it's all of 105 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 7: the things that you would hope for when it all 106 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 7: comes together and you see people doing incredible work together 107 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 7: and it's one of those moments where you just feel 108 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 7: like they all I just really revel in the acting 109 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 7: in the episode. 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: So many great performances. Jessica Harper, who is a great 111 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: character actor. She packs a lot into Ethel Kennedy and 112 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: that relationship that we know from reported John the Kennedy's 113 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: of which there has been a ton we know that 114 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: has been a special bond, and just the anguish of 115 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: Carolyn Kennedy and to know this is not fiction. 116 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 6: We were very lucky to have these incredible actors, and because 117 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 6: we knew that we were going to not have John 118 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 6: and Carolyn in the second half of the episode. In 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 6: a lot of these shows we've done OJ or VERSATCHI, 120 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 6: you know what's going to happen. You know, and Oj 121 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 6: he's going to get off, you know, and Versace that 122 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 6: he's going that Andrew Canain's going to kill himself in 123 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 6: a houseboat and everyone knows that this plane crash happens 124 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 6: and you're left in the aftermath, and we were just 125 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 6: lucky that we had these incredible actresses to carry us 126 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 6: through and to be sort of living testaments for them. 127 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 6: Ethel actually wasn't going originally scripted as being in the finale. 128 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 6: Originally was going to be Constance and Grace and you know, 129 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 6: the mother of Carolyn and Caroline coming together and talking. 130 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 6: And Ryan actually had fallen in love with Jessica Harper's 131 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 6: performance as he'd seen more and more throughout and he 132 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 6: really wanted to bring her back to for the finale 133 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 6: to sort of talk about what it was like to 134 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 6: be a Kennedy woman and what they had been through, 135 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 6: So we added that to this. 136 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: In general script, Sarah Pigeon over the course of this series, 137 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: she embodies this person full of conflicts and with the 138 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: element that we know that she is going to meet 139 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: an untimely death. And then Anthony Hemingway just an incredible 140 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: job in building the tension and the drama in this finale. 141 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: I know Anthony is a reunion for you from people 142 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: versus O Jay Simpson. 143 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 6: We have a shortthand with Anthony because we'd worked with 144 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 6: him extensive on People Versus OJ Simpson. He's a really 145 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 6: talented filmmaker. He came in and this was a script 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 6: that was finished very close to when we were shooting it. 147 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 6: He was getting it handed to him in pieces as 148 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 6: he was prepping. And it was also, like a lot 149 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 6: of these episodes, you don't really fully know how to 150 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 6: end them. You have emotional ideas, you know that you're 151 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 6: going to be in the aftermath in some ways, but 152 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 6: you know, really the peak of most TV shows is 153 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 6: the penultimate one. In the last episode, we saw them 154 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 6: almost break up, and so this is about them coming 155 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 6: back together and then the tragedy that befalls them. It's 156 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 6: a bunch of things that people know, so really has 157 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 6: to ride purely on emotion, and I think Anthony is 158 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 6: an emotional filmmaker first and foremost. He is a little 159 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 6: bit more restrained in this series than he sometimes is 160 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 6: in some of the other rhyme Murphy shows because we 161 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 6: had a much more strained palette, and I thought it 162 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 6: was fun for him to work within that restraint. But 163 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 6: he really understands emotions. The actress loved him and felt 164 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 6: really really secure with him. I think The hardest thing 165 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 6: for everybody on this was it was the end, and 166 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 6: the actors were so connected to the roles and they 167 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 6: felt very protective of their characters. It felt like a 168 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 6: real tragedy. I know that Grace. The crew was destroyed 169 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 6: by the scenes she has in the kitchen and where 170 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 6: she's refusing to believe that her brother can be dead, 171 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 6: and she's just telling her husband that he doesn't want 172 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 6: him to come into the kitchen because he knows what 173 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 6: he's going to say, and then sitting down with Constance 174 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 6: the mother, where there had been tensions within the family 175 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 6: and trying to work it out and come to some understanding. 176 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 6: These were scenes that had the crew in full tears. 177 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 6: But I would say one of the most emotional moments 178 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 6: was when Grace walked out of Northmoor into the crowds 179 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 6: who'd been waiting there with pictures of Carolyn and John, 180 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 6: and this was a real walk that had been taken. 181 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 6: It was the real space. There's a hontology about it. 182 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 6: It just being there and watching Carolyn walk through this 183 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 6: space where you can feel almost the presence of people 184 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 6: who been there before getting into the car, and then 185 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 6: watching her break down. She later told us that she 186 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 6: didn't feel like she was inhabiting or playing Carolyn and Kennedy, 187 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 6: that she was Caroline Kennedy in those moments. 188 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: Stepping back a little bit, looking across the series and 189 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: the goals, what would you say were some of the 190 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: larger kind of cultural than in now themes that you 191 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: tried to draw out. 192 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 7: It's such an incredible experience to have a show that 193 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 7: is being shared by so many people at the same time. 194 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 7: It's what you're always dreaming of and rarely ever getting 195 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 7: to experience when you're in this line of war. And 196 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 7: so to reflect on fame and our relationship, these parasocial 197 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 7: relationships that we have now and that we had then, 198 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 7: and how different it was though when it was mediated 199 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 7: through both the monoculture and the tabloids, and that the tabloids, 200 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 7: So the cruelty of the tabloids and the cost on 201 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 7: real people's lives on the one hand, and yet the 202 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 7: nostalgia of actually how much less exposed even the most 203 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 7: exposed people seemed then. 204 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 3: I think also our relationship to fame, the. 205 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 7: Idea that I think obviously the show really explores both. 206 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: It's a lower I mean, Carolin, there's no Rube. 207 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 7: She was instrumental in publicity and marketing at Calvin Klein 208 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 7: in the heyday. At that time in her career, she 209 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 7: was really very savvy and it still burned her right. 210 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 7: And yet our relationship with fame has changed so much 211 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 7: that everybody wants to be famous, and loads of people 212 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 7: are famous, and I think there's a lot of nostalgia 213 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 7: for that time. Although there was a lot of cruelty 214 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 7: that ran through the narrative, there was still a degree 215 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 7: of agency that people had over their lives even then, 216 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 7: and we're watching her lose that agency. And now you 217 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 7: take the way that we live now and how often 218 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 7: people lose that agency, how often a person ends up 219 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 7: famous without wanting to be famous for a minute, Like 220 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 7: our relationship fame's just so different, and it's really been 221 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 7: particularly how young people have consumed the show and the 222 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 7: way that the look back at just a time that 223 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 7: is so different. It's almost feels like a fairy tale, right, 224 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 7: And obviously we're telling a romance, and so it is 225 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 7: a bit of a fairy tale. We loved our characters 226 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 7: and it's optimistic about them as a couple, and we 227 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 7: rooted for them because we loved them, and it's a 228 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 7: bit optimistic about the time, maybe, but it's been a 229 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 7: joy to watch people enjoy that and be able to 230 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 7: submerge themselves in it. And it's been incredible to watch 231 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 7: people enjoy the show. 232 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: The show is performing very well for FX Hulu. It's 233 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: been a cultural conversation. Every costume choice, every prop. You've 234 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: had that kind of scrutiny that I'm guessing that when 235 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: you see that, you know you're connecting. 236 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 6: We had such press attention on us last summer when 237 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 6: people were worried we were going to get it right, 238 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 6: and you saw the depths of the fandom and concern, 239 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 6: but really everyone who worked on this was mission driven. 240 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 6: We really wanted to bring back A lot of us 241 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 6: had grown up in that New York or the nineties, 242 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 6: and we wanted to bring it back. But what I 243 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 6: think is really interesting is not just people who have 244 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 6: nostalgia for that time, but people who have false nostalgia 245 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 6: for that time. The show is doing really well among 246 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 6: millennials in Gen X, and they're looking back to the 247 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 6: simplicity of that time, a time when you could go 248 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 6: out and not be bothered by seeing where your friends 249 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 6: were on Fine my iPhone and we're able to smoke 250 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 6: in clubs and be silly and not be worried about 251 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 6: being photographed. And the sort of care free world that 252 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 6: that was I think is really appealing to a lot 253 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 6: of younger people. We didn't even intentionally we talked about 254 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 6: nineties nostalgia. We wanted to get it right, but we 255 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 6: just tried to recreate what we loved about it. We 256 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 6: brought the music we loved in through gen Malone. It 257 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 6: wasn't calculating. It was just something where everybody was doing 258 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 6: something about what they loved and it really has touched 259 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 6: a chord and it's great to see it resonating. It's 260 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 6: great to see that it's become cross generational viewing. 261 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: Of course, you can't produce a true life story without 262 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: a lot of strong criticism. Obviously, Daryl Hannah has spoken 263 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: out about she's not very happy with her portrayal. How 264 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: did you feel about what she had to say? 265 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 6: You know, from the beginning of this, this was going 266 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 6: to be John and Caroline's story, and we put a 267 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 6: lot of research and rigor into all the people in 268 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 6: moments in this series that ultimately shape their relationship. You know, 269 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 6: we read a lot of biographies and journalistic accalents. Anytime 270 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 6: you're dealing with characters, they're based on real people. There 271 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 6: are big emotions and sensibilities. I think it's tough for 272 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 6: anybody to see themselves represented. For all of us in 273 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 6: the show, we did approach every character with empathy and love, 274 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 6: and we love all our characters, so obviously it's difficult 275 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 6: for some people to see themselves represented. We know this 276 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 6: is a real trategedy of affected real people. 277 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: Is it becoming harder in any kind of legal sense 278 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: or production sense to tackle real life characters, especially if 279 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: they're living. 280 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 6: The legal team is very rigorous about fact checking us, 281 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 6: even though it's dramaization, and even though these shows from 282 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 6: the beginning that we're trying to tell the emotional truth 283 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 6: and we are dramatizing events, there is like a very 284 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 6: vigorous fact checking that has only gotten more and more vigorous. 285 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 6: I think that what's actually interesting is that back during 286 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 6: the age of OJ we actually there was a lot 287 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 6: more journalists out there, so they would do journalistic deep 288 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 6: dives into our episodes and read all the books and 289 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 6: be in conversation. And I think what's different now is 290 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 6: there's just a lot of hot takes on Twitter and 291 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 6: on Instagram, and so you don't have as many journalists 292 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 6: out there who are going back and debating, Okay, this 293 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,479 Speaker 6: is what we think happened in real life. They're competing 294 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 6: narratives and this is what the show's presenting. How did 295 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 6: they do that? And that happened a lot on OJ, 296 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 6: and it happens less on this. It just becomes a 297 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 6: quick they got it wrong, they got it right based 298 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 6: on somebody's Wikipedia dive. 299 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: That is a sad sign of the times. Let me 300 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: ask you about your larger partnership with Ryan Murphy and FX. 301 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: It seems very fruitful. 302 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 7: It makes me smile because of the fact that Ryan 303 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 7: and I we've known each other since we both like 304 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 7: small children in the industry. I knew Ryan when I 305 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 7: was in my in my twice, he was in his 306 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 7: and he was part of Act Up, which Bruce Cone 307 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 7: and I started at the time, and so we've known 308 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 7: each other forever. And even when the first time that 309 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 7: we partnered on people versus OJ, I mean, he's so 310 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 7: obviously so accomplished in television and we had a resume 311 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 7: of zero in television, and so we didn't know what 312 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 7: to expect. 313 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: Obviously, he was the big fish. 314 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 7: And in you know, and we had our feature career, 315 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 7: but we hadn't really no. 316 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: You had a few features under your belt. 317 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 7: We did, We're not whankers, but still we didn't know 318 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 7: what the relationship would be like. And it has been 319 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 7: a really wonderful partnership. It's a very nimble partnership. We 320 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 7: work differently on different shows together, and I think we 321 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 7: challenge each other. I marvel, honestly at how much I 322 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 7: just his instincts, so his instincts on casting, his instincts on. 323 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: Production, on what a show should feel like. 324 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 7: And bringing someone mcconnor into the fray. And to have 325 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 7: a young person like that incredible voice emerging, I think, 326 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 7: who will have a huge career ahead of him as 327 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 7: a writer, but to also have the guidance of like 328 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 7: a director and a filmmaker and showrunner like Ryan. It 329 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 7: has been for us a real gift to be able 330 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 7: to partner with somebody just there's you know, his instincts 331 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 7: and acknowledge of the medium. 332 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: He has really grown into not just being a very 333 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: in demand showrunner, but he has a company. He has 334 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: a company of actors and a team of artisans that 335 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: work with him over and over, it's no surprise why 336 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: he gets the results. 337 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 6: In general, Nina and I have a very simple approach 338 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 6: to what we take on, which is like, if it's 339 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 6: a book and it's a page turner and we finish it, 340 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 6: don't think of the reasons why it may not work, 341 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 6: think of the reasons why it might. Like, we had 342 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 6: both loved the book that people versus O. J. Simpson, 343 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 6: but we knew that wasn't a movie and we just 344 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 6: needed to wait for the rise of the big Grand 345 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 6: Limit series and CLASSYTV to catch up with us. And 346 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 6: I think with Ryan it's been pretty organic in terms 347 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 6: of the FX of it all. What do they particularly 348 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 6: bring to the table. Twelve thirteen years ago, Nina and 349 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 6: I decided to get into TV, and we were driven 350 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 6: by creative jealousy and survival instincts, and we just saw 351 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 6: what was coming, and we saw the House of Cards 352 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 6: and all these things, and we went to meet with 353 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 6: every studio and The Hunger Games had just come out, 354 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 6: and we were surprised people want to do deals with 355 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 6: us even though we had no TV experience, and Joe Cohen, 356 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 6: our agent, pushed us towards FX. We watched their shows 357 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 6: and liked their shows. We sav with John Landgraf, who 358 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 6: was at that time Eric Schreier and Nick Rad and 359 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 6: it was just the three of them in a room 360 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 6: and they were brilliant. And Joe said, they're going to 361 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 6: offer you the least amount of money, and everybody wants 362 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 6: to go to HBO right now, but you should be 363 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 6: with them. They don't have anybody like you, and your 364 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 6: sensibilities will match. And so we took the lowest amount 365 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 6: of money from them and it paid off. It paid 366 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 6: off in a big way. Oj was our first show 367 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 6: and we were soon exclusive with them, and basically since 368 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 6: then we've only worked with them. They believe in literary pulp. 369 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 6: They believe in that pulpy poster, but then a shakespeareans fine. 370 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 6: You want to be able to reference check off when 371 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 6: you're talking to John Landgraf, and they push for quality, 372 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 6: and they sort of like, don't stop. They don't stop 373 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 6: giving you notes in a way that sometimes for some 374 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 6: writers can be annoying. But we are also the same way. 375 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 6: We believe that you know, a great TV show or 376 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 6: a movie is just finally a band and never finished. 377 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 6: And they listen to their creators, and they believe in 378 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 6: their creators, and there's something different when you see one 379 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 6: of their shows you can just tell and that they 380 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 6: have confidence in the vision of the people who are 381 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 6: making it. 382 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 7: I will echo that I think FX we were intuitively 383 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 7: drawn to them as just feeling like these feel like 384 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 7: our people. They talk, they're interested in the same things 385 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 7: we're interested in, and they're as ambitious and hopeful about 386 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 7: the reach of storytelling. It means as much to them 387 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 7: as it does to us. Just a gift to have 388 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 7: a relationship like that over all these years, and especially 389 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 7: at a time where there is not a lot that 390 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 7: most people can count on, and to say I believe 391 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 7: something's really good, they'll make it, and that what they 392 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 7: have to add to it is almost always pretty smart. 393 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 7: And when it isn't, we argue. 394 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: Tell me about The Shards. 395 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 6: It's a book reddyston ellis who is a touch shown 396 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 6: for us between Less Than Zero and American Side Go. 397 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 6: He'd written a book called The Shards Is set in 398 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 6: nineteen eighty one. It's sort of like Less than Zero, 399 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 6: but if there were serial killers and murders happening. A 400 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 6: coming of age piece. It's a piece that like many 401 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 6: of these things is defined by a mood, by the 402 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 6: music of the time, but the clothes of the time, 403 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 6: and by teenagers who feel like adults and are acting 404 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 6: like adults, aren't at adults yet. And it was a 405 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 6: book that HBO had originally optioned, he'd done as a podcast, 406 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 6: and we were incredibly jealous of it, and when it 407 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 6: became free, bounced on it. Ryan got it and knew 408 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 6: how much we loved it, and so brought us on 409 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 6: to it. And it's got an incredible young cast and 410 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 6: is I think going to be something that when it 411 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 6: comes on later in the summer is surprising to everybody. 412 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 6: But it has all the great elements of people who've 413 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 6: been looking for that sort of Georgia or moroder American 414 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 6: Jigelow vibe of the teenagers of the early eighties. It 415 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 6: delivers on all of those things. 416 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 7: One of the things about the current moment that is, 417 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 7: I think people love discovering a new generation of stars 418 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 7: and not just being told who the star is, but 419 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 7: being able to be part of the making of stars 420 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 7: and getting to have these communal events like that. 421 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: Is it's the dream. 422 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 7: It's what you always hope for, is the shared cultural experience. 423 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 7: The freedom of being able to see people fall in 424 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 7: love with your cast and have Ryan's brand behind. 425 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: You is to have that freedom is really a gift. 426 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: My last question for you, it's a big one, but 427 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: I'd be curious, how do you feel about the marketplace 428 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: right now? Was a tough year, a lot of retrenching. 429 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: There's still a lot of drama in the general marketplace. 430 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: What would you say in terms of your optimism your 431 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: sense of the selling marketplace for TV and film right now? 432 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: I mean, it's no day at the beach. 433 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 7: Obviously there was a course correction that had to happen, 434 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 7: you know, as John landgraft too much TV. It's true 435 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 7: it was too much if there had to be less. Ultimately, 436 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 7: the hope is always have the shared experience. And when 437 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 7: there's so much out there and everybody's watching it in 438 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 7: different ways at different times, it's very hard. We have 439 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 7: a nostalgia as well for the time that we used 440 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 7: to all everybody's watching Roots, everybody was seeing Jaws. Whatever 441 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 7: it was that we had these shared cultural experiences and 442 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 7: it brought us together and made us hate each other less, 443 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 7: I think, And so we have a lot of longing always. 444 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: To try to achieve that it's hard. 445 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 7: Need to be able to take shots, and you need 446 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 7: to be able to take some risks, certainly in development. 447 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 7: In order to have any chance of getting to bad 448 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 7: and having a home run, you've got to be able 449 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 7: to swing the bat right. I think the retrenchment on 450 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 7: development feels like it's loosening up a little bit because 451 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 7: I think with the too much TV realization came the 452 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 7: too little development realization, or at least it felt that way. 453 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 3: I do think it's starting to lift a. 454 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 7: Bit, but it's definitely the fear factor and the how 455 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 7: do you make a peep in a saturated market that 456 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 7: pervades everything, and that's still there. 457 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 6: One of the things that Nina is hitting on right 458 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 6: now as there's a realignment is that people have forgotten 459 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 6: how to develop. They've forgotten that you have to take 460 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 6: chances on things and that you have to develop internally. 461 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 6: And I think a lot of the studios right now 462 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 6: are just becoming reliant on these big packages that come 463 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 6: out prepackaged, and then they complain about how they're having 464 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 6: to overpay for these prepackages. And we came up during 465 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 6: a time in which you would have a whole bunch 466 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 6: of producers developing and trying to take shots to get it. 467 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 6: It's always unexpected stuff that pops and I do hope 468 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 6: business says people realize that you need a development incubator 469 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 6: in some way in order to continue to make good stuff. 470 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 7: Need producers to keep interrogating the material and keep trying 471 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 7: to make it better. At the most basic level, that's 472 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 7: our job is just to keep trying to make it 473 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 7: better and to keep asking how it could possibly be better, 474 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 7: and let better be the best version, hopefully of each 475 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 7: person who's contributing. And obviously Brand and I have been 476 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 7: involved as well in Producers United. Just the sustainability of 477 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 7: this as a line of work development contracts, even though 478 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 7: the paltry fee that Producers United has also talked about 479 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 7: as really trapped in the seventies at a time there's 480 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 7: no way to grow new producers if there's hardly any 481 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 7: production companies left. We're very lucky to have the relationship 482 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 7: with Effects where they recognize and that we have value 483 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 7: because there are a lot of producers who have a 484 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 7: lot of value who don't have a home. And then 485 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 7: the question of like how do you actually make a 486 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 7: living doing this? The economy has to also feed and 487 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 7: sustain itself, so that you have people like who just 488 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 7: do nothing but stand around trying to figure out how 489 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 7: to find something that hopefully resonates, how to make it 490 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 7: as good as it possibly can be, and put together 491 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 7: as talented of a team of people as you possibly can, 492 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 7: and then desperately hope that you can get it made 493 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 7: and have partners who support you. But you have to 494 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 7: have an economy that supports people doing that for a living. 495 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 7: And then that's part of why we've gotten involved in 496 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 7: Producers United, is because we're aware that having this the 497 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 7: backbone of e FS have. Being a partner like Brian 498 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 7: keeps us in the game obviously on television side in 499 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 7: a way that allows them when we go to make movies, 500 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 7: which are so much more infrequent. I mean, we used 501 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 7: to make our living as feature producers. That was how 502 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 7: we made a living, and TV was the side hustle. 503 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 7: I mean, I love future but they don't come around 504 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 7: as often, and so having to balance our business and 505 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 7: do both, it's been a gift creatively. 506 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: Bringing it back to love Story, it was touching, it 507 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: was heartbreaking. It is a Shakespearean drama for our times. Well, 508 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: congratulations on. 509 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: Thank you. 510 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: I know we're going to be talking to you through 511 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: Emmy season. 512 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Thanks Anthia for having us. 513 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 514 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: at the podcast platform of your choice. We love to 515 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: hear from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and 516 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: sign up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and 517 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: don't forget to tune in next week for another episode 518 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: of Strictly Business.