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Speaker 1: Welcome In Wednesday edition Clay Travis buck Sexton show.

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Speaker 2: I am in Israel, buck is in Miami.

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Speaker 1: The geographic distance is wide, but my goodness, we have

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Speaker 1: a lot to dive into today as the fallout of

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Speaker 1: the Daniel Penny verdict continues, but also the United Healthcare

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Speaker 1: CEO murder now that they have this lunatic in prison,

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Speaker 1: the number of women out there that are in love

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Speaker 1: with him is crazy. And the overall attempt which has

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Speaker 1: become quite common now to try to analogize these two

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Speaker 1: situations and suggest that they are in any way reflective

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Speaker 1: of one another. To me, Buckett feels like it's only

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Speaker 1: growing here. And we had a discussion yesterday, and I

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Speaker 1: understand that there are many people that are fired up

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Speaker 1: about the healthcare system in America, and it is extremely frustrating,

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Speaker 1: and it is extremely inefficient, and there are lots of

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Speaker 1: things that everyone out there has had as an issue

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Speaker 1: at some point in time in their family.

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Speaker 2: But you can't kill CEO because you don't like the United.

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Speaker 3: States healthcare system.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that people out there are saying, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: in one case, vigilante justice is rewarded with Daniel Penny,

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Speaker 1: and in the other case, Oh my goodness, they're not

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Speaker 1: giving any justification to the killer here. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: that this argument could even occur, or that people buck

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Speaker 1: with functional brains could even attempt to analogize these to me,

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Speaker 1: as in most life, most of life, and most of

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. Frankly, it comes down to intent.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Penny's goal that day was to go safely take

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Speaker 1: a subway ride. He felt compelled to act to try

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Speaker 1: to protect his passengers around him. The killer of the

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Speaker 1: United Healthcare CEO plotted in cold blood to kill a

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Speaker 1: man who'd never done anything to him directly and had

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Speaker 1: committed no crimes.

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Speaker 4: I got to say, Clay Penny's attitude, his perspective on

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Speaker 4: this is pretty remarkable. This is cut one. He's telling

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Speaker 4: everybody after this acquittal. You know, usually well, it's always

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Speaker 4: the case that the process is the punishment with a

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Speaker 4: criminal prosecution, right You're you don't ever want to be

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Speaker 4: criminally prosecuted. But Penny seems to have no bitterness about it.

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Speaker 4: He says, a trade off I would make again to

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Speaker 4: step in and defend people play cut one.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not a confrontational person. I don't really

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Speaker 5: extend myself. I think this type of thing is very uncomfortable.

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Speaker 5: All this attention in line mind is very uncomfortable, and

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Speaker 5: I would prefer without it. I didn't want any type

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Speaker 5: of attention or praise or and I still don't the

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Speaker 5: guilt I would have felt if someone did get hurt,

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Speaker 5: if if he did do what he was threatening to do,

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Speaker 5: would never be able to live with myself. And I'll

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Speaker 5: take a million court appearances and people calling me names

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Speaker 5: and people hating me just to keep one of those

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Speaker 5: people from getting hurt or killed.

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Speaker 4: Clay, this is what a code is. When you talk

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Speaker 4: about a man who has a code of honor, a

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Speaker 4: code of ethics, it is more important to me to

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Speaker 4: achieve a moral end than it is to avoid suffering

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Speaker 4: or to avoid the negative consequences of the state. So

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Speaker 4: I think Penny has acquitted himself after his acquittal in

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Speaker 4: these interviews in a remarkable way. And beyond that, I

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Speaker 4: would just say this, Clay, if Penny had done this,

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Speaker 4: we haven't talked about this yet. I'm wondering if you agree.

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Speaker 4: If Penny had done this in the summer of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: he's sitting in prison right now because oh I think

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Speaker 4: you're right, you know, because people have woken up. They've

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Speaker 4: realized that the big problem is not systemic racism, in fact,

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Speaker 4: at the hands of police. The big problem for millions

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Speaker 4: and millions of Americans is not being safe on their streets,

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Speaker 4: on the subways, you know, walking in front of their homes,

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Speaker 4: going to the store. We've seen all the videos. Enough

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Speaker 4: is enough.

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Speaker 1: The fever's broken, the woke fever has broken. And here's

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Speaker 1: what I would say about the subway incident in particular,

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Speaker 1: the City of New York failed Daniel Penny and they

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Speaker 1: failed Jordan Neely. There are a lot of people out

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Speaker 1: there who want to say, oh, Jordan Neeely is the victim.

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Speaker 1: Daniel Penny's the bad guy. Some people want to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Penny's a hero, Jordan Neely is the is the

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Speaker 1: awful villain I gotta take here. I think the City

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Speaker 1: of New York is the villain here, because the City

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Speaker 1: of New York had a test. Did Jordan Neely for

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Speaker 1: violent incidents that definitely sprang from his mental illness? I

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Speaker 1: think the number is forty two times. This is a

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Speaker 1: guy who socked a sixty seven year old woman in

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Speaker 1: the face and broke her orbital bone, and Broker knows this.

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Speaker 4: Guy who could have gone blind in one eye. When

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Speaker 4: you when you shatter somebody's orbital bone, it is not hard.

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Speaker 4: Any of the ophthalmologists or surgeons know that very easily

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Speaker 4: could press on the optic nerve and you could go

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Speaker 4: blind in an eye. Not a minor thing to do

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Speaker 4: to an elderly woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sixty seven year old woman is often a grandma.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're not talking about somebody who was a

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Speaker 1: threat to him, but he was a threat to himself

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Speaker 1: and he was a threat to others, and they let

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Speaker 1: him out on the street because of the soft on

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Speaker 1: crime policies. Daniel Penny had to act that day in

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Speaker 1: his mind, and a jury believed he was justified in

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Speaker 1: doing that act because New York City failed.

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Speaker 3: This was and is to me on New York City.

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Speaker 1: And then buck New York City doubled their failure by

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Speaker 1: deciding they needed to put Daniel Penny on trial and

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Speaker 1: try to imprison him. So not only did they create

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Speaker 1: the toxic circumstances of this situation. If Jordan Neely's family

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Speaker 1: wants to sue somebody, they should sue the state of

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Speaker 1: New York and the City of New York because they

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Speaker 1: failed to take a violent criminal off the streets and

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Speaker 1: someone who was mentally ill. Can we bring back you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about things that we need to bring back,

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Speaker 1: can we bring back insane asylums?

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Speaker 2: I mean a huge portion a violent crime.

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Speaker 1: In this country is directly connected to mental illness. And

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Speaker 1: we basically have decided nobody needs to be put in

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Speaker 1: a mental institution anymore, and all those people are out

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Speaker 1: on our streets.

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Speaker 4: This may or may not shock you, Clay, but you

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Speaker 4: know who very much agrees with some of this analysis.

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Speaker 4: Mourning Joe Scarborough himself, this is c whoa.

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Speaker 2: He is attacked.

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Speaker 4: My goodness, his fellow Democrat lunatics were passing insane laws

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Speaker 4: about homelessness, et cetera. Play four.

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Speaker 6: Middle health system in this country is just grossly insufficient.

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Speaker 6: Whether you're talking about New York, whether you're talking about Florida,

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Speaker 6: whether you're talking about California. You have people walking around

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Speaker 6: on the streets that have mental health issues. And the fact.

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Speaker 7: That some progressives have said, basically, well, we're just you know,

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Speaker 7: let's pass laws that allow homelessness all you know, you

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Speaker 7: look in San Francisco, you look at Los Angeles. As

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Speaker 7: we've said all along and reve and I've said all along,

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Speaker 7: there's nothing compassionate about that. Now, there's nothing progressive about that,

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Speaker 7: leaving people.

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Speaker 6: With mental health problems on the street.

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Speaker 4: No, by the way, this is a total reversal, a

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Speaker 4: rejection of Democrat dogma for certainly the last decade and

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Speaker 4: maybe the last you know, several decades, going back to

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Speaker 4: the Giuliani crime miracle of New York. Clay, just like

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Speaker 4: with so many things Democrats, whether it's oh, the real

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Speaker 4: problem with violence in this country is white cops against

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Speaker 4: young black men. That is a lie. It's actually incredibly rare.

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Speaker 4: And the real problem with the violence is criminals shooting

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Speaker 4: each other, and disproportionately their minority young men shooting minority

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Speaker 4: young men. Put that aside for a moment. Clay here,

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Speaker 4: they like to make everybody think that homelessness is caused

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Speaker 4: by healthcare denials followed by bankruptcy. Somebody couldn't hit the

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Speaker 4: mortgage payment. Somebody all of a sudden ran a little

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Speaker 4: too much on their credit card bills. Anybody with any

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Speaker 4: experience dealing with and I mean in a institutional way, right,

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Speaker 4: like trying to help. You know, I had a grandfather

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Speaker 4: who is involved with the Coalition for Shelter for you know,

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Speaker 4: many many many years in New York. Anybody who spent

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Speaker 4: any time doing this will tell you it is overwhelmingly

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Speaker 4: extreme mental health issues and extreme drug addiction issues, either

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Speaker 4: a combination or one of those two things. Eighty or

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Speaker 4: ninety percent of the homeless you see. And they keep saying,

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Speaker 4: don't punish people for these things by taking away their freedom,

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Speaker 4: But they're taking away the freedom of other people to

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Speaker 4: walk the streets safely. Then this is what By the way,

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Speaker 4: the Jordan Neely, he was given a safe place to sleep, food,

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Speaker 4: a room to sleep, and all this stuff left after

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Speaker 4: I think it was fourteen days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw eleven days. But you're right.

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Speaker 1: They tried to get him off the streets. And this

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Speaker 1: is where again I grew Jeff Scarborough. We got to

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Speaker 1: bring back in some way mental institutions. Remember when I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've read the studies because I was fascinated by it.

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Speaker 1: We basically just gave up on the idea of putting

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Speaker 1: people in mental institutions in an effort to rehabilitate them there.

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Speaker 1: And now all of those people are back out on

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Speaker 1: the streets. Per capita, we have almost no one in

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Speaker 1: mental health institution compared to we just call them insane

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Speaker 1: asylums back in the day. And by the way, Daniel

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Speaker 1: Penny also ripped New York because he said, I think

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Speaker 1: some degree of what I said, which is the City

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Speaker 1: of New York's failure, is what created the conflict between

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Speaker 1: Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny. That never needed to happen.

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Speaker 1: Listen to cut two.

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Speaker 3: How does it serve them to hurt you just political gain?

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Speaker 5: I mean, these are their policies that are and I

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Speaker 5: don't mean to get political. I don't really want to

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Speaker 5: make any enemies really, although I guess I have already,

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Speaker 5: But I mean these these are their policies that I've

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Speaker 5: clearly not worked, that that that the people, the general

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Speaker 5: population are not in support of. Yet their egos are

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Speaker 5: too big just to admit admit that they're wrong.

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Speaker 1: I think he's right here, Buck. I think your point

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Speaker 1: is a good one. If Jordan Eely did this exact

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Speaker 1: same thing in the sun of twenty twenty, I think

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Speaker 1: he would have gotten convicted in the fall of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: So this is strong evidence that there is a rejection

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Speaker 1: and repudiation of New York City policies. And I would

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Speaker 1: just hammer this home if Jordan Neely couldn't get convicted

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Speaker 1: in New York City, if in fact a jury there

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Speaker 1: would unanimously agree that his actions were justified. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure there is a single jurisdiction in all of America

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Speaker 1: right now where Daniel Penny could have been convicted. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's not getting convicted in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live,

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Speaker 1: or my own to your point, he wouldn't even be prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't even get charged. Yes, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: they couldn't even get a conviction there. He wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: prosecuted in most jurisdictions based on the evidence here. But

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Speaker 1: the fact they couldn't even get a conviction there. Maybe Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC you could get it. I don't even think you

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Speaker 1: could get it there because I've ridden the Metro in

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Speaker 1: the subway there, and there's that same fear now in

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Speaker 1: DC that didn't used to be there.

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Speaker 4: I Clay, I mean I read, I've ridden the subway

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Speaker 4: thousands of times over my life. I used to ride

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Speaker 4: the subway even before the pandemic. I was on the

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Speaker 4: subway four times a day because I was sort of

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Speaker 4: commuting twice for two different things, so at least four

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Speaker 4: rides a day right during the week. And the stuff

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Speaker 4: that you started to see in the New York City

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Speaker 4: subway in a post Bloomberg era because of Deblasio, because

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Speaker 4: of the end of stop question and frist. They always

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Speaker 4: leave out the question part. They do that on purpose.

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Speaker 4: They always, you know, all these different decisions that were made,

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Speaker 4: and what it turned into was build a Blasio and

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Speaker 4: progressive ideologues like him, the Soros prosecutors across America, Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 4: by the way, same ideology. There are a lot of

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Speaker 4: people that jumped on this bandwagon. They they decided that

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Speaker 4: New Yorkers should have to hope that they don't have

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Speaker 4: some maniac who you know, reeks of This is I'm

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Speaker 4: speaking facts here, Okay, they often reek of urine and feces.

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Speaker 4: I'm talking about people that are deeply mentally ill, that

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Speaker 4: need help, that cannot function normally in order threat to others.

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Speaker 4: You're supposed to just get on a subway and that

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Speaker 4: maniac can come up to you, scream and spit in

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Speaker 4: your face, and you have to hope that they don't

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Speaker 4: stab you, or hope that they don't punch you in

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Speaker 4: the face and do real damage to you before you

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Speaker 4: do anything. A jury, a multi ethnic, multi gender jury

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Speaker 4: in New York City, said no, sorry, those aren't the

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Speaker 4: rules we want to play by anymore. It is a

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Speaker 4: profound rejection of that progressive lunacy that has led to

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Speaker 4: unfortunately thousands of excess deaths, tens of thousands of additional

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Speaker 4: assaults and rapes and horrible things and no benefit. By

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Speaker 4: the way, you know, people as why is the Democrat

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Speaker 4: Party so devoted to this horrible idea, whether it's defund police,

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Speaker 4: abolish prisons, all this stuff, Clay the Soros prosecutors. What

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Speaker 4: has the Democrat Party done for low income minority communities

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Speaker 4: in America of the last twenty years? What real achievements

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Speaker 4: have they had. Is it easier for them to say,

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Speaker 4: you know what, we stink and we need to change

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Speaker 4: and we need.

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Speaker 2: To help these communities.

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Speaker 4: You know, the party has to come forward and take accountability,

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Speaker 4: or it's systemic racism. I think we all know the answer,

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Speaker 4: and I think we all know the answer not only

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Speaker 4: in how this jury reacted, but in how many different

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Speaker 4: people of minority backgrounds, Black, Asian and Hispanic voted in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. They're seeing the impact of full Democrat,

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Speaker 4: blue state, blue city law.

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Speaker 1: And it ain't helping them. And they're finally, if you

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Speaker 1: want to use the woke phrase, they're finally waking up

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Speaker 1: to a new reality. And I hope it's a safer

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Speaker 1: reality for everyone. And that's certainly the world that I'm

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Speaker 1: hopeful that we're moving to prize picks. I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: Buck picks on Friday. I am flying back from Israel.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm over here in Jerusalem right now,

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Speaker 1: but it's time for us to win a ten to one.

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Speaker 1: I want you to get signed up and then you

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Speaker 1: will find out whether or not Buck can read my

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Speaker 1: writing and whether or not he can correctly deliver the pick,

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Speaker 1: because some of you will remember the infamous Pickles play

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Speaker 1: and George Pickens not George Pickles. But if you want

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Speaker 1: to see and experience the fun, Buck is solo Friday,

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Speaker 1: and he will be attempting to determine what exactly is

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Speaker 1: going on. We'll get hooked up with that. You can

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Speaker 1: get in a role right now with a holiday bigger

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Speaker 1: and brighter with price picks you can win up to

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Speaker 1: two hundred times your money. We're going to try to

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Speaker 1: hit on a ten to one, and all you have

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Speaker 1: to do is use my name Clay and you get

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars instantly when you play five dollars my name

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Speaker 1: Clay as your promo code. Join now Holiday Season Fun.

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Speaker 1: Get hooked up right now fifty dollars when you play

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Speaker 1: five dollars at pricepicks dot com. Code Clay, Clay, Travison,

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Speaker 1: Buck Sexton, Mike Drops.

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Speaker 3: That first sounded so good. Find them on.

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Speaker 1: The free iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 4: All right, welcome back into Clay and Buck play. I

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Speaker 4: always have to make sure that I'm factually accurate here

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Speaker 4: we talk about this. I guess this isn't really a fact,

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Speaker 4: but a bit of a correction. I had mentioned that

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Speaker 4: a good and longtime friend of mine had always told

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Speaker 4: me that Whoopy Goldberg was quite kind and always very

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Speaker 4: kind to him, even though he was conservative. I have

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Speaker 4: since been informed that she's actually gone super woke and

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Speaker 4: is mean and won't talk to him anymore. So looks

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Speaker 4: like a little correction there. I did not realize she

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Speaker 4: is not nice according to our sort of engineering. Brain's

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Speaker 4: broken like the mini her brain is absolutely broken. I

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Speaker 4: was giving her way too much credit. According to a

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Speaker 4: longtime friend of mine in media, God I've known for

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Speaker 4: fifteen years now, but anyway, she's also not happy about

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Speaker 4: the Daniel Penny situation.

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Speaker 3: Over at the view this is cut three play it.

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Speaker 8: I don't know that seeing them celebrating in a bar

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Speaker 8: made me comfortable. I mean, you killed a guy. The

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Speaker 8: man is dead, and maybe just you take the celebration home,

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Speaker 8: you don't do it outside.

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Speaker 9: But that's just me.

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Speaker 8: Don't listen to anything I say.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's just totally out of context here, Clay

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Speaker 4: with the he's not celebrating that he killed the guy,

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Speaker 4: celebrating that he's not going to spend the next fifteen

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Speaker 4: years of his life in a cell, which he didn't deserve. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's quite obvious.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I will say is I agree with

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Speaker 1: Whoopee on the outcome here. I wouldn't have wanted him

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Speaker 1: to go to a bar because I don't think for

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Speaker 1: a very different reason, yes, totally different reasons, but I

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Speaker 1: just I know he went with his lawyers and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to celebrate.

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Speaker 4: You don't want some maniac to decide that he's going

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Speaker 4: to try to you know, even the stud what.

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Speaker 1: Happened to the United Healthcare CEO. I mean, that's my

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Speaker 1: concern for him going forward. I wish that he had

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Speaker 1: gotten on a plane and moved straight to the free

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Speaker 1: state of Florida for instance.

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Speaker 3: Where you are.

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Speaker 1: Look, you need more energy and stamina to get through

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Speaker 1: a day. Heck, you know long days over here in Israel.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad that I still got some functional testosterone,

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Speaker 1: unlike a lot of the MSNBC and CNN All Stars,

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Speaker 1: unlike the white dudes. For Kamala, you need some more

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Speaker 1: health in your life, some more testosterone in your life.

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Speaker 1: Maybe your maybe you looked in the mirror the other

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Speaker 1: day and he thought, you know what, I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: feel like a white dude. For Harris, I get hooked

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Speaker 1: up now with Chalk. You don't want to be a

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Speaker 1: white guy for Kamala cchoq dot com. You want to

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Speaker 1: have some actual testosterone in your life. You get a

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Speaker 1: a new subscription, in addition to a massive lifetime discount.

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Speaker 1: Use my name Clay to get hooked up with both

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Speaker 1: the lifetime discount and the fifty dollars value gift. You

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Speaker 1: can also call five zero chalk three thousand. Say Clay

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Speaker 1: and Buck sent me. That's five zero chalk three thousand.

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Speaker 1: Chalk dot com five zero chalk three thousand. Get hooked

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Speaker 1: up for the holiday season with some testosterone in your life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back in play Travis buck Sexton show Hope. Everybody

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Speaker 1: is having a fantastic Wednesday all over the country.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna call out women here. It always goes well.

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Speaker 1: The number of women Buck that are basically losing their

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Speaker 1: mind over this Luigi character who is a murderer, and

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Speaker 1: are convinced that he is the hottest human being who

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Speaker 1: has ever existed. There are many aspects of this story

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Speaker 1: that have blown my mind, beginning with the fact that

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Speaker 1: anyone would in any way defend his actions. But actually

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Speaker 1: it may even be crazier that not only are people

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Speaker 1: defending his actions, but there are women losing their mind

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Speaker 1: over how much they love this guy because they think

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Speaker 1: he's attractive. Now, I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.

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Speaker 1: I've been married for twenty years to a woman. I

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Speaker 1: don't think this guy's that good looking and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I'm missing. I admittedly I don't know what

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Speaker 1: makes women lose their minds over attractiveness. But this is

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Speaker 1: crazy town, even for crazy women town, and so I

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Speaker 1: want to get some reactions. There is there any woman

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Speaker 1: who can defend women finding this guy attractive? Eight hundred

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Speaker 1: and eight two two eight eight two only women or

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Speaker 1: gay men? I guess maybe uh?

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to play this because we were talking

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: Buck.

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Speaker 1: How in the world did he get recognized? At an Altoona,

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania McDonald's, they found the guy who caught him and

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Speaker 1: they interviewed him. The McDonald's customer, did you see this?

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Speaker 3: No, but go for it. Let's play it.

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Speaker 1: This is this is the hero of the story. The

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Speaker 1: McDonald's customer, listen, Larry.

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Speaker 10: When the shooter I'm assuming was the shooter who they

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Speaker 10: made the arrest on came in, he made a comment,

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Speaker 10: but that looks like the shooter from New York. But

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Speaker 10: I thought he was the group of us. I thought

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Speaker 10: it was more was a joke and we were kidding

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Speaker 10: about it. But then as it turned out, it was him.

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Speaker 10: And like I said, the employee thought it was him.

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Speaker 10: That I guess started the initial investigation on it. I

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Speaker 10: talked to her later. I said, I said, was I

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Speaker 10: here when he came in? And she goes, yeah, and

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Speaker 10: she goes, actually, you and your friends and all were

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Speaker 10: making a joke, almost like saying, and that's pretty much

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Speaker 10: about it. I mean, he ordered went to the rear

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Speaker 10: of the store and sat. I passed him whenever I left,

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Speaker 10: I left and went to church. Come back because I

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Speaker 10: heard there was an arrest. I didn't know which McDonald's

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Speaker 10: it was, but it was this, you know, where we

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Speaker 10: were at.

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Speaker 1: So the McDonald's guys are sitting around joking that Luigi

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Speaker 1: looks like he might be the killer, and then one

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Speaker 1: of the McDonald's employees calls in and next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: he's arrested at Altuna Pa.

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Speaker 4: Can I just say that this is not an unusual

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Speaker 4: circumstance for how people. It's this is why they want

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Speaker 4: to when they need help to find somebody, they blast

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Speaker 4: their image all over You go back to what was

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Speaker 4: that show that it was America's Most Wanted, Thank you,

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Speaker 4: America's most wanted.

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Speaker 3: You know it.

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00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 4: It's somebody sees somebody the gas station and the facial

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Speaker 4: recognition in their own brain triggers and next thing you know,

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Speaker 4: you know, you've got an arrest.

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Speaker 11: Right.

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Speaker 4: So people were saying, like, how was he found that, Well,

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Speaker 4: he's gonna be found somewhere. He wasn't hiding. It's not

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Speaker 4: like they found him deep out in the woods after

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Speaker 4: some extended manhunt that required a lot of, you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of gumshoe detective work.

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Speaker 3: This was just.

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Speaker 4: Somebody who had seen him and was able to, you know,

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Speaker 4: make the right call in the moment. I'm also just

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Speaker 4: gonna point out, though, Clay, this guy wasn't trying to

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Speaker 4: He knew he was gonna get caught. It's just question

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Speaker 4: of when you don't just show up in a McDonald's

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Speaker 4: when your face is everywhere and not even that far

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Speaker 4: from where the shooting was. Really when you think about it,

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Speaker 4: I know people say, I'll tune in Pennsylvania. It was

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Speaker 4: like two three hour drive or something. So it wasn't

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Speaker 4: like he was found in Saskatchewan pretending to be a logger.

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Speaker 4: This was a guy who was gonna get caught. And

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Speaker 4: you can already see he's shouting things. What was it

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Speaker 4: he he used a phrase that is just such a oh,

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Speaker 4: lived experience. He said, lived experience. Let me tell you,

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Speaker 4: anybody whoever this is when he was arrested, and he's

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Speaker 4: being kind of marched, you know, from one facility to another.

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Speaker 4: Anybody who says lived experience, it's up there with announcing

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Speaker 4: your pronouns. Right when you say lived experience, you're a leftist.

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Speaker 4: This is one of their kind of Marxist dogma slogans.

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Speaker 4: And he's gonna use he's not he's pleading not guilty.

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Speaker 4: He's not facing the death penalty. They can't offer him

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Speaker 4: anything other than life in a cell. So Clay, this

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Speaker 4: is going a trial. And this guy, I think, is

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Speaker 4: going to try to make a big thing about the

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Speaker 4: healthcare industry and how you know, you have lunatics like

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00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 4: that woman from the formerly of the Washington Post, Taylor Wrenz,

437
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 4: saying that the healthcare industry is murdering millions of people

438
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: or thousands of people whatever, crazy either way.

439
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 3: And here we are.

440
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 4: You know, is there an outsize outside chance that he

441
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: maybe has one juror who is a little bit.

442
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: Of a holdout. I think it's low, but I don't

443
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: think it's zero. I think he has a chance. Again,

444
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: if I were the the criminal defense attorney here and

445
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm not in any way justifying it, but when you're

446
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: a lawyer, you play the hands that you are dealt

447
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: and try to play the hand the best you can.

448
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: That is, you are an advocate. I think the defense

449
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: here is going to be a form of insanity defense.

450
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: They will say that he was so angered at what

451
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: he saw as the depredations of the American healthcare system that,

452
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: based on his lived experience to use the phrase that

453
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: he wanted to scream, that he felt compelled to act,

454
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: and in a moment of insanity, he acted against this CEO,

455
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: And they will hope that one person will buy that

456
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: as a result, he is not culpable for his act

457
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: because his brain basically just like went on the fritz.

458
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: And this was a This was almost like an insanity

459
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: style defense. The reason I say insanity style defense, Buck

460
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: is I don't know whether some states specifically don't allow

461
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: you to make an insanity defense in a criminal context,

462
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: and so and so I'm not sure New York does.

463
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: Fun fact, one of the first successful insanity defenses ever,

464
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: General Daniel Sickles, who was a one of the heroes

465
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: of the Battle of Gettysburg, killed his wife's lover and

466
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: argued that in the heat of the moment, he had

467
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: gone insane and therefore was not criminally responsible for the

468
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: murderous act.

469
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 4: Crime of passion used to be a criminal defense, or

470
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 4: you know, there used to be that you could say

471
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 4: that you could argue something was a crime of passion,

472
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 4: and it was always you found some guy in bed

473
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 4: with your wife, and a jury wouldn't always convict over that, right,

474
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 4: I mean, that's actually the way.

475
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: That this this used to go.

476
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: So I think one part of this play that hasn't

477
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 4: really gotten it hasn't really gotten enough.

478
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: Focus.

479
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 4: This guy's a terrorist, right, I mean we use the

480
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 4: word assassin, and that's true, but he is a terrorist, yes,

481
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: the same way that somebody who you know tried to

482
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 4: and they one of the prime suspects randomly in the

483
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty Wall Street bombing, the huge bomb on Wall

484
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 4: Street was a guy named Luigi as well. So Luigi

485
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 4: making a comeback. This guy committed a high profile murder

486
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 4: in the furtherance of a clear political and I don't

487
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 4: mean the ideology is clear, but a clear connection to

488
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 4: a political ideology. This guy's a terrorist. I mean this

489
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: is terror one oh one. He is and quite Honestly,

490
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 4: there's some efficacy to his terrorism because he has forced

491
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 4: a national conversation to be occurring right now about healthcare.

492
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 4: So you know, as a society, I think we have

493
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 4: to be very cognizant of what this guy wanted is

494
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: everyone to talk about United healthcare denials and to think

495
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 4: that they're apparently much higher than they really are. But

496
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 4: put that aside. What this guy wanted is everyone to

497
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: sit around and say, what's really the legacy of Obamacare?

498
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 4: What's really better about Canada system than ours or not?

499
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: Like he actually wanted that to happen, and it is happening,

500
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: And when terrorists get their way, I think we should

501
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 4: all be very cautious about the trajectory of what we're discussing.

502
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 4: That's why I think he wants the trial, of course,

503
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 4: like he wants to make the case in the courtroom

504
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 4: of a dramatic fashion about his actions, which ties in

505
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 4: By the way, Daniel Sickles, here's something people didn't expect.

506
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: Killed his wife's lover eighteen fifty nine, then became a

507
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: general in the Civil War. Argued that he was one

508
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 4: of the heroes of the Battle of Gettysburg and was

509
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 4: a member of the Grant administration later in his life.

510
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: That's a crazy story.

511
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: Eighteen fifty nine, he was one of the first people

512
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: to get away with the insanity defense. He committed a murder,

513
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: said that he was temporarily insane. I don't know that

514
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: you can use it officially as a defense in New

515
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: York State. Maybe somebody who's listening to us is an

516
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: expert on New York penal law. Some states have specifically

517
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: disallowed it. But every crime requires typically two parts, the

518
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: act and the intent to commit the act. When you

519
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: are temporarily insane, you do not have the mental faculty

520
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: to intend to commit the act. That's how you get

521
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: away with doing something like that. One other aspect to

522
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: your buck that I think is significant. The guy who

523
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: was killed, Brian Thompson.

524
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: He is a from a.

525
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: Working class family, state school education. He pulled himself up

526
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: by his proverbial bootstraps. This kid, twenty six year old

527
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: Luigi is the definition of white privilege. Went to Gilman

528
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: High School forty thousand dollars a year. It's the elite

529
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: prep school of Baltimore, double ivy League degrees. Family is

530
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: very wealthy. Isn't it interesting when the white privilege. Mantra

531
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: is just completely abandoned. This guy is the definition of

532
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: white privilege, and I would argue defending him is a

533
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: furtherance of his entire life where everything has been set

534
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: out for him.

535
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you from years of being in

536
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 4: the CIA's kind of terrorism center, Clay and having access

537
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 4: to the literature and the training that they give analysts,

538
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 4: poverty does not cause radicalism. And if you look historically,

539
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: it is often the case that the most extreme radicals

540
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 4: in a society tend to be what you would think

541
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: of as upper middle class and above, bin Laden being

542
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 4: one of the most obvious and prominent examples of this.

543
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 4: I'm in Alswaheri a doctor. A lot of terrorists running

544
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: around with the with the nom de guere of the

545
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: engineer because they studied engineering because that's very popular in.

546
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: The Middle East as a as a degree.

547
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 4: So I'm just saying, you know, this is also a

548
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 4: reminder for people that it is the progressive elites in

549
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: a society who can often be the most radical and

550
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: the ones who are most willing to kick at the

551
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: load bearing walls of civilization.

552
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: No doubt, And one of the reasons why is because

553
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: they have the intellectual ability and also they're well educated

554
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: in some sense, but more importantly, they have the financial

555
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: wherewithal to not be worried about where every meal is

556
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: coming from. They can sit around and focus on things, and.

557
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 4: They're disconnected from I mean, there's the there's a dangerous

558
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 4: idealism that can come from being disconnected from the problems

559
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: of everyday people, which is like, how do I live

560
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 4: in a safe and secure place, how do I feed

561
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 4: myself in my family? How do I provide? How do

562
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: I when? When you can sit around and just think

563
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 4: deep thoughts, yeah, sure, sometimes that results in beautiful artwork

564
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: and literature, I get it. But for people who go

565
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: down a path of radicalization, they they become disconnected from

566
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 4: the humanity that they seek to mold in the most

567
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 4: extreme ways. True of communists, true of jihadist, true of

568
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 4: go down the list. This holiday season, you have the

569
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 4: opportunity to share the gift of life with a pregnant

570
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Speaker 4: mother and her unborn baby. Imagine a young woman facing

571
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Speaker 4: an unplanned pregnancy, unsure of what to do. That's where

572
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Speaker 4: the preborn ministries come in. They operate preborn clinics nationwide

573
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574
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575
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576
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577
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578
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Speaker 4: And they've done this with hundreds of thousands of babies

579
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580
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581
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582
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583
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584
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585
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586
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587
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588
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594
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Speaker 1: Cheek out with the guys on the Sunday Hang with

595
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Speaker 1: Clay and Buck podcast, a new episode every Sunday.

596
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 6: Find it on the iHeart app or wherever you get

597
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598
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Speaker 4: Put out the ask here for a whole lot of calls,

599
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Speaker 4: and we've got a bunch of them.

600
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: Let's get to them.

601
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 4: But first up, you'll notice I'm wearing the T shirt

602
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603
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604
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605
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606
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607
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608
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609
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611
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612
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613
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618
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Speaker 4: Crocketcoffee dot com. All right, let's take Barbara and Fort Meyers. Barbara,

621
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: what have you got for us?

622
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 3: Hello?

623
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 11: Bringing the Luigian his eyebrows And as a natural born female,

624
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 11: I have to admit, Yeah, the kid's pretty cute. That

625
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 11: doesn't mean that when somebody is attractive that if they

626
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 11: go off the deep end then that dark side comes out.

627
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 11: They can also turn equally as unattractive.

628
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 4: So well, yes, personality matters, and being an assassin and

629
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 4: a psycho is clearly a downer on the dating scene.

630
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: But yes, do you think women would be more likely

631
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: to find him not guilty if you were his defense attorney,

632
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: would you try to get as many women on the

633
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: jury as you could?

634
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 11: Oh? Of course, I think I'm smart lawyer would definitely

635
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 11: go that way. But I think there will be smart

636
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 11: women that will look beyond what the kid looks like.

637
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 11: And they're gonna they got too much proof. It appears anyway,

638
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 11: fingerprints and what have you. So I think they'll get him.

639
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 3: I think so.

640
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he's on video theoretically committing the crime. Sandy

641
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: and California. You got a beef to pick with me here?

642
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Or bone to pick with me? I don't guess you

643
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: could pick a beef? May you could? I don't know.

644
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 9: I don't know if if the screener was referring to

645
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 9: my comment about Kamala, because I remember one of you

646
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 9: saying that you thought she was attractive and as a

647
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 9: straight woman, maybe I shouldn't judge, but I don't find

648
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 9: anything attractive about her.

649
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: I think Kamala is an awful politician, but I think

650
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: she is an attractive sixty year.

651
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: Old woman, and she used to be really good looking.

652
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: Did I just.

653
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: Blow just blow Sity's mind? Did she just hang up

654
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: on the spot She was calling in to tell us

655
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: Luigi was good looking, but that I couldn't be trusted

656
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: because I said Kamlo was good looking.

657
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 4: But I just I need to know. I mean, who

658
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: is better looking, Luigi or Mario.

659
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: Mario? I mean Mario the original active he's the o G.

660
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, I think. I don't think there's

661
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: any doubt. Uh, would we come back? A lot of people?

662
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: By the way, we could have some fun with this.

663
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: During the course of the show Buck, a lot of

664
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: people fired up about the Harry Potter versus Star Wars

665
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: debate we got into. We'll have some fun with that,

666
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: but also serious stuff. Our two necks