WEBVTT - Selects: How No-fly Zones Work 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:05.240 Hey, everybody, Chuck here on a hopefully lovely Saturday afternoon, 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.360 wherever you are. And this week, everybody, we are going 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.560 to re release the episode on no fly zones. I 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.480 think for obvious reasons. What's going on. They're in Ukraine 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.040 with Russia's invasion and the idea of a no fly 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:26.320 zone being requested by Ukraine America saying we can't really 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.920 do that. Uh, the international community debating whether or not 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.000 no fly zone is a good idea in this case, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.600 it's very complicated situation. Hopefully this episode that we recorded 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.440 and shed some light on that. Although it is from 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.639 quite a few years ago, it's basically still the same thing. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.559 It's not super complicated. Uh. And you can decide for 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.680 yourself whether or not you think we should as Americans 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.599 wade into those waters right now. So here we go 0:00:54.040 --> 0:01:02.840 with how no fly zones work. Welcome to Stuff you 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:11.480 should know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.319 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.640 Chuck Bryant mad as heck and he's not gonna take 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:23.520 it anymore. I said, heck. I revised a classic movie 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.120 quote in the heck Yeah Network man have you ever 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.399 seen that? Have you seen that recently? I've never seen it. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.479 It was on Netflix streaming and I had hit my instinct. 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.720 Cuban passed it up, Well you should watch it again 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.080 because you'll watch it now and go. Man, when was 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.960 this made so far ahead of its time? Really as 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.920 far as like how things are in the media, like, uh, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.720 coma yeah, but when you watch network back then, people 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.160 said things like how ridiculous, like stuff like this could 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.040 never happen. Oh, I see it's prescient right, very much. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:54.720 So yeah, I'll have to watch it then. Yeah, it's 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.320 a good one. That's uh is it? Like? Um, what 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.840 is it? What's that Aaron Sorkin show? I don't like 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.040 a news hour that? Yeah, that just thinks? Is that 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.320 what it's called? News out? Newsroom? Yeah. I didn't care 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.120 for it other than the fact that it stars our 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.080 guest starred, Mr Paul Schneider, who's one of my one 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.519 of my boys. So uh, sometimes people accuse that show 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.200 being preachy. What do you think? I just I'm not 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.000 a sworking guy, so he's a little worthy for me. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.040 I liked West Wing. I didn't watch it. You never 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.560 watched West Wing, not one episode guarantee you you would 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.959 like it. You think it was he I hate to 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.040 say this, but it was like his his masterpiece from beginning. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.239 I'm not kid Chuck. I'm telling you, this is somebody 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.320 who didn't like Studio sixty, who doesn't like Newsroom West 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.359 Wing from beginning to end was just really great. I'll 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.720 try it, but I swear the way that guy writes, 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.240 I'm always just like nobody talks. I'm with you, I'm 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.600 totally with you. But this cast of characters, the characters 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.560 that he wrote, the actors, they pulled it off. I've 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.320 never seen a give a shot do Paul Schneider's not 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.079 on it. I'm come into your house this afternoon and 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:05.160 we're gonna watch them. Okay, okay, uh so, I guess 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.440 that's the segway for no flyes on. Not a bad 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:12.040 setup because this is political and presidential. I have something, 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.600 actually have a bit of an intro. Okay, well, let's 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.280 let's hear it. You've heard of the Wright brothers, Dayton's Pride, 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.720 Orville and Wilbur Wright. Oh yeah, can joined twins? Yes? 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.720 No they weren't, but they did fly. They did build 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.480 the first airplane. Yes, that flew and they flew it 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.919 out at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. And after they had 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.560 that flight, actually I think before they undertook that flight, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.800 while they were still in the development stage, they went 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.960 to the United States government and said, hey, War Department, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.280 you want in on this action. Not once, not twice, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.520 but thrice did the War Department turn the Right Brothers down, 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.440 say what good our planes in the warfare? Exactly Luckily 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.000 there was a very smart person heading the Post Office 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.480 Department who said, Okay, maybe you shouldn't drop bricks out 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.360 of air planes onto people's heads, but we could use 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:07.720 this to deliver the mail. Martin ben Ostrin right to 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.240 heck with the auto gyro, We're gonna start using this 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.280 Wright Brothers plane to deliver mail. And for three years 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.920 the only aircraft that were in service under the United 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.160 States government was for delivering mail. And then a postal 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.440 carrier and as a pilot accidentally dropped a mail bomb 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.240 and they went, wow, that's a good idea, works very well. Yeah. 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:29.920 It didn't take very long for the War Department and 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.840 be like, oh, okay, maybe we should use this. And 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.520 then by nineteen fourteen, the aviation section of the Signal 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.320 Corps was set up and all of a sudden, planes 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.200 were militarized. Within just years of their invention, they were 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.359 being used to murder people. Yeah, and this article points 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:50.359 out in seven Spanish Fastest dropped a bunch of bombs 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.560 on the town of Guernica. A hundred thousand pounds of 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.080 explosives killed sixteen hundred people. And yeah, well, not only 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.160 was it the explosive, people were running on a down 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.640 and they were gunning them down for millions. Yeah, so 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.800 that's what fascists do. As outrageous and horrible as that is, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.480 it was definitely the beginning of what would be a 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.240 long romance in warfare with the plane. Yeah, you had 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:18.160 the red baron Eddie Rick and Backer. Uh. They're a 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.840 very long, bloody history associated with planes and war. Um. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.960 When the fascists in Spain used planes to take out 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:35.080 a lot of civilians, the world was, you know, appropriately disgusted. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.040 It wasn't a whole lot that could be done. It 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.000 actually wasn't until the very early nineteen nineties that people 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.080 figured out a way to use planes to thwart planes 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:49.240 from being used against civilian populations by their own government. Yeah, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.720 I thought no fly zones had been around long before that, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.880 So this was very eye opening. I had no idea 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:55.800 that it was in the nineteen nineties when they first 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.400 did this. Right, no fly zones are new. They've only 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.640 been used three times. Like it just seems like there's 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.400 just it's something that they just commonly do. Yeah, but 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.680 it's kind of a big deal to issue no flies one. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.120 And the reason why is because what you're doing is 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.840 intervening in a sovereign nation, undermining the power of the 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.880 ruler of that nation, choosing sides in a way. You're saying, 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:19.560 at the very least, I'm not gonna let you just 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.520 slaughter these civilians. I'm not going to cast my lot 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.640 one way or the other. Really, but I'm going to 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.440 protect these civilians. And uh, it takes a United Nations 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.840 mandate to to even get started, that's right. So, um, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.680 you want to talk about the first one. Yes, Uh, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.960 let's harken back to the spring of nine. I'm in 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.120 college drinking a lot of beer. That's where I first 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.880 discovered beer. I was drinking a lot of beer too, 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.160 and I wasn't in college. Well, I'm just kidding. I 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.760 was about um. So I remember sitting around and watching 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.560 like this stuff on CNN for the first time, like 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.560 being interested in politics really for the first time. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.680 that's kind of when I got into stuff like that. Well, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.680 that was the first war that was really televised. I mean, 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.120 Vietnam was, but this was the one that this is 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.200 the first one that had like twenty four hour coverage. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:10.760 Was the goal was the first goal four And it 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:15.040 was spectacular to watch. Uh, it was pretty enthralling, especially 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.120 when you're you know, twenty years old and you're sitting 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.720 around with your friends drinking beer. Yeah, like look at 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.480 that's good. Safe in Athens, Georgia. Um, so what happened 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:29.800 There was a guy named Saddam Hussein he Um was 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.040 not doing very nice things to the people in Kuwait 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.400 well well put and the Curtish minority in northern Iraq 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:44.880 was encouraged by American radio broadcast two Revolt, like take 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.240 a stand, and so they did. And Sadam Hussein Um 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.720 sent gunships and with napalm and chemical weapons and helicopters, 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:54.960 because that's that's what you do. That's what he does 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.520 when you have a civilian population that's unhappy with your rule. Yeah, 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.240 and so they fled. Basically hundreds of thousands of them, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.240 uh Kurtish civilians fled um and sort of got wedged 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.240 there at the Turkish border. Yeah, because the Turks were like, yeah, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.960 we feel for you, but stay there, so don't cross 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.360 over here. They didn't have food and water. And H. W. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:18.040 Bush President George H. W. Bush and allies in Europe said, 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.800 you know what, oh boy, I don't know what to 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:22.680 do here because we kind of encourage these people to 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.160 do this and now they're stuck in a between a 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.640 rock and a hard place. And but we really don't 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.320 think we should invade and remove Sadam Hussein like with 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.280 all of our might. Yeah, let's give another ten twelve 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.079 years exactly. Or we could go to the U n 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.640 in and say, hey, how about passing a resolution against 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.839 this guy? Right what they did, but they did. They said, Okay, 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.839 we're gonna um deliver humanitarian aid to these Kurds who 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.280 are trapped along the Turkish border, and Hussein, if you 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:58.079 do anything to interfere, we're going to bomb you. We're 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.440 going to take on your guys that you send interfere 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.959 at the very least right um. And not only that, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.600 we're establishing a safe zone for these people it's above 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.839 the thirty six parallel, and uh, if you send any 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.679 planes over there, we're gonna take them on. So this 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.880 is what we're going to call a no fly zone. 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.280 It was the first one, and Saddam Hussein went, no 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.440 fly zone. I've never heard of such a thing. That's stupid, 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.400 And the UN said that's because this brand new jerk, right, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.839 and he's like, oh, I'm the first one. He went first. First, 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.079 he's so um they did this, and then second no 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.000 fly zone um south of the thirty second parallel was 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.640 established to protect the Shiite Muslims, who also rose up 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.240 under the encouragement of the United States. If you're interested 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.160 in this kind of thing, check out Three Kings. It 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.280 was a lot to do about that. It was after 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.160 the uprisings had started, and also after the time the 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.840 United States didn't support them. Remember the one scene where 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.920 when the guy made Marky Mark drink the oil. That 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.599 was hardcore man, a little over the ham fisted of 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.480 David o' rusty. Think you don't like that guy that 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.280 you get problems with him? No, I like Three Kings 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.200 a lot. Okay, what else has he done that I've 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.360 seen Silver Linx playbook? He didn't like. I thought it 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.719 was okay. Yeah, see, you don't love him, But I 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.240 like Three Kings a lot. I thought that was a 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.520 good movie. Yeah, me too. Uh So, no fly zone 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.720 is going on Sodom Hussein violates said no fly zone. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.480 He's like, yeah, well, what's gonna happen. Let me send 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.559 some jets up there. And we responded by or the 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.600 coalition I should say, responded by shooting down these aircraft 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.440 or destroying just you know, military targets on the ground. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.960 Because that's as we found out, one of the parts 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.559 of a no fly zone to be effective is to 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.080 also bomb like radar equipment and stuff on the ground 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.520 that can get jets up in the air and guide 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.360 them disabled. Their force can also find your jets. So 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.280 you want to disable their force, like you said, but 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.920 you also want to protect your own force. The thing was, 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.199 this is very new. Uh The U N was a 0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:00.320 little squeamish at the idea of undermining again a sovereign 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.240 ruler a jerk, everyone agreed, but still a sovereign ruler 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.760 and kind of one of the stabilizing forces of the 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.720 Middle East, whether the US liked it or not. Um 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.319 So they just kind of said, yeah, protect these people, 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:16.640 but just really you got to take it all in 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.720 a case by case basis. Can't be the least bit aggressive. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.600 You have to be completely reactive. And even then maybe 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.199 we should just kind of chase him out of the 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.839 no flies him rather than shoot him down over time 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:31.880 after sortie after sortie after shorty. They started just by attrition, 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.520 wearing down Hussain's defenses and his um, his air force 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.839 just because he kept sending him man and we kept 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.800 shooting him down until two thousand three, when we, you know, 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.160 went in in full force and took out Sadam Hussein. Right, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.760 the northern part and the southern part of Iraq was 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.680 off limits to Sadam Hussein for twelve years his own country. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.439 There was a wide swath in the middle that he 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.520 could move around him, but anything else he wasn't allowed. Okay, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.959 so those are the that's the first use of the 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.040 no fly zone ever, right. Uh. In the early nineteen nineties, 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.960 when Yugoslavia broke up, um NATO forces said, all right, 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.520 how about another no fly zone. We're going to authorize 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:15.520 this one. It's over the breakaway region of Bosnia and Herzegovina. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.360 It was called Operation Denied Flight, which is terrible little 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.040 on the nose if you want to talk about on 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:26.400 the David R. Russell named said mission, and it was 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.360 gonna block Bosnian Serbs who controlled all the military aircraft 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.560 in that region, right, and who were using it against 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.040 all of their neighbors that they were um going to 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:41.120 war against, specifically the Um Muslims, Yeah, Serbian Muslims, right, yeah, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.920 in a big way. Yeah. Um. So the I guess 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.880 NATO undertook that no fly zone that was number two. Yeah, um, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.160 and uh, that was a little more aggressive. I believe 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.240 they went after they'd learned from you know, I guess 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.520 about eight years of the Iraqi no fly zone that 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.319 you really they kind of have to go after like 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.800 military installations and anything that can be used to violate 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.680 the no fly zone, and maybe even go a little 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:12.360 step further as punishment, like not only is is are 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.040 we gonna shoot down your plane, We're gonna maybe blow 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.040 up your base and pants you right in front of everyone. Right. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.400 So that was the second no fly zone. The third 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.360 was even more aggressive, Yeah, against Khadafi just a couple 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.199 of years ago in two thousand eleven, that's right, And 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:33.280 it lasted about six months, I believe. Yeah, it was 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.760 extremely effective. Yeah, well that's because they authorized, um quote, 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.959 all necessary measures to protect the Libyan civilians. And that 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.199 was uh, you know, that meant a lot of a 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.920 lot of bombs being dropped, a lot of cruise missiles 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.200 taking out bases on land. And this one was named 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.559 by Angle. It was called Operation Odyssey Dawn. It was 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:58.240 the result of U N Security Council Resolution ninety three, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.319 which is confused using because it was carried out in 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.640 two thousand eleven. That's right, But basically it said, you guys, 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:11.560 we think Kadafi is totally nut so um and he's 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.880 gonna kill a lot of his own people. Go in 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.559 there and declare all of Libya no fly zone. And 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.320 NATO said, okay, let's do it, right, So u US 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.520 and British led NATO coalition kind of took the reins 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.400 and turned the six hundred and eighty thousand square mile country, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:38.600 which is about one point seven million square kilometers uh 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.680 into a no fly zone. All of Libya was a 0:14:40.720 --> 0:15:04.200 no fly zone, all right. So since this is a 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.360 new thing, it's there is no as this article says, playbook, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.040 there's not like a exact way that these go into effect. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:13.520 It sort of depends on what you're dealing with, what 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.920 countries you're dealing with. But the first thing that you 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.880 have to do, according to Chapter seven, Article forty two 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.440 of the UN Charter, is UH, get the fifteen member 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.360 UN Security Council on board, right, which sounds easy, but 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.680 it's not necessarily because you have five permanent members the UK, France, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.280 the US, China and Russia. And China and Russia loved 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.280 to veto anything that the US, the UK, and UM, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.320 France are all about. UM, which is gets called a 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:45.440 balance of power, but UM specifically with Libya, France, or 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.080 Russia and China where they were against it, but they 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.320 were persuaded to abstain from the vote because all it 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.520 takes is one one permanent member nation on the Security 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.520 Council of veto and it's done. Yeah. I wonder what 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.080 that persuasion entailed. I don't know, you know, looking the 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.920 other way on human rights violations. Maybe I have no idea, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.640 but I'm sure it wasn't just as easy as hey, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.000 you mind sitting this one out? Sure, no problem, right, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:14.320 I'm drunk anyway. So, UM, the the UN resolution for 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.280 the Libyan. Uh, no fly zone. UM, it's a pretty 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.560 good example of how this kind of thing can work. 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.000 So no flights in Libyan airspace bands all flying unless 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.240 it's a humanitarian mission carrying food or water or getting 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.160 out um for nationals who are in like bad places. Yeah, 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.840 you're allowed to do that. Other than that, no fly, 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.360 no fly and UM it's not uh. You don't just 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.160 shoot down any plane on site when you're patrolling the 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.640 no fly zone. If a if a plane is flying 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.560 in Libyan airspace, you want to first figure out if 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.480 it was there accidentally or if it's hostile. And if 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.920 it's hostile, you go back to the ground and say, hey, man, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.200 can I shoot this thing down? Yeah? Well, first you 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.600 got figure out who's who's doing the shooting. You know, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.800 you gotta set it all up. He's gonna be in 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.840 worsing all this. I was just jumping ahead of Okay, Yeah, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.280 you gotta figure out who's who's in charge of the operation, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.800 basically in the lib in the case of Libya, it 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:12.040 was NATO and UM. Then you established the Rules of 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.040 Engagement RU, which is partially has to do with hey, 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.159 do we shoot first and ask questions later? Do we 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.800 check passports. How's this gonna work? Right? And and like 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.840 you said, Olibya, it was pretty aggressive. Um. The first 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.000 thing that happened on day one was the US and 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.800 I believe the UK sailed warships off the coast of 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:39.000 Libya and started shooting missiles into Libya's interior, knocking out 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.400 military installations, radar installations, as much of the Libyan military 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.639 as or at least air force as could be destroyed. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:53.320 Hundred twelve Tomahawk cruise missiles boom. Yeah, each one precisely shot. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.920 That's right, and uh, I love the article says the 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.280 goal is to shape the battle space in quotes. Yeah, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.680 that's the euphemism. Huh yeah, Victor time. So um, after 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.760 this they send in the drone surveillance aircraft to check 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.720 things out. You see what's going on? And did you 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.760 get the impression the US is kind of showing off 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.680 a little bit like, well, we've got some missiles we 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:13.719 can use, and then after we're we'll send in our 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.560 unmanned drones and make sure everything's bombed. And then after 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.560 that we're going to send in radar jamming equipment just 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.200 in case you have anything left on the ground. We'll 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.000 take care of that too. Yeah, that was the first 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.600 like two days. Yeah, and get off his his air 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.879 force was you know, they call them vintage jets in 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.680 this uh, in this article, and that's in that case, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.800 vintage is not a good thing. You know, it's from 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.280 the nineteen sixties. It's old gear. Basically, it's vintage, not retro. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.560 That's right. Um, so it's it's still it was effective. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.480 It worked even beyond the fact that, um the jets 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.440 were vintage and we crippled the his radar system, his 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.560 air force military installations. Um, there was still a lot 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:05.600 of shoulder launched rockets in Libya an estimated six hundred. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.440 I believe that like during this time, Kadafi was handing 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.879 out to people who were on his side. Yeah, And 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.160 Sadam Hussein famously offered a bounty on any aircraft shutdown 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.760 of like fourteen grand, which I thought, why not fifteen 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.480 you know, Yeah, that was a weird number. I wonder 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.879 if if that makes like a significant round number in 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.600 Iraqi money. You know, it's a lot of denari, Yes, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.280 thank you. You shouldn't invest in those, by the way, 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.719 that's a big scam invest in denari. Have you heard 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.160 of people doing that. It's a thing where people buy 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.480 up Iraqi denari and thinking you're like, they're gonna hit 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.720 it big one day. You shouldn't do that. Why, it's 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.640 just you do a little research and it's it's sort 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.000 of one of those scams, is it. Yeah, so like 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.200 if you bought denari from a legitimate currency broker, it's 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.800 still not a good investment. Huh. I know someone who 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.199 did it. Oh no, yeah. Is it possible it's going 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.040 to come back in ten years? I doubt it. Are 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.160 they going to go euro I don't know. Huh, but yeah, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.680 that's just a sidebar. Okay, that was a nice one. 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.080 Save your money, folks. So we were talking about the 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:17.200 possibility that a NATO jet or any jet patrolling a 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.360 no fly zone could get shot down by some dude 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.480 on the ground. Yeah, it hasn't happened. No, but it 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.840 couldn't have to be one lucky shot. It raises one 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.600 of the concerns. Uh, actually it has happened. It hasn't 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.600 happened from somebody on the ground, but it raises a concern, 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.680 a risk that, um, we're sending in people again into 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.520 a sovereign nation that maybe has to deal with his 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:44.720 own problems, and um, we're putting our people in danger 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.280 for that. Most people, I think myself included side on 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:54.960 the idea of going in and protecting civilians from certain slaughter. Um, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.719 but I do agree that there is a risk as 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.920 well in um. Scott McGrady remember him, Oh yeah, yeah, 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:05.040 Owen Wilson. Yeah. During the Balkan War. Uh, during that 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.080 no fly zone he was shot down I guess by 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:12.399 a Serbian plane. Uh it was a surface to air missile. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.600 But okay, so somebody has shot down somebody from the ground. Well, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.520 I don't know if it was a person. Okay, Well, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.840 he was shot down patrolling a no fly zone, and uh, 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.000 he was in very big trouble for a little while. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.520 Had he not been quite the survivalist, who knows what 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.440 would have happened. Because the Serbs were hot on his 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.639 trail and he spent six days evading them. Yeah, he 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.600 did a really good job and a hero. Yeah. He 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.400 ate ants and and lived on collected rainwater and avoided 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:42.639 the bad guys and eventually got through. Uh a radio 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.639 signal and and Gene Hackman picked up. Gene Hackman was like, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.200 we're going to get you out of there. Yeah, Uncommon 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.080 Valor man. That was the gene Hackman was in the 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:54.640 Owen Wilson movie too, Was he really? I'm pretty sure 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:56.840 he was the one that was in charge of saving him. 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.160 Oh man, Well he's he's always going in and saving 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:02.440 and uncomming Valor. It was his son who was a yeah, 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:07.760 Vietnampio w Right. Yea good Randall tex Cob Yeah, what 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.280 was his name in it? I don't remember that. That 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:11.840 movie came out at a great time for me though. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.520 It was the perfect age. Uh. He wore like a 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:19.399 live grenade around his remember, Yeah, that's the second time 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.680 we talked about Uncommon Valor in like two months. When 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:24.680 was the other one? I remember? I don't remember. I 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.600 do remember talking about it and probably when what happens 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:32.480 if the earth stops spinning? Yeah? Probably so. Um so 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.240 you got anything else? I guess. We had the opportunity 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.280 to to really invade Libya, and in President Obama said, 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.760 you know what, let's not do that. Um, let's not 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.760 do the regime change game. Well, a lot of people 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.040