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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff I've Never told you Production by Heart Radio,

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Speaker 2: and today we are bringing back one of our very

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Speaker 2: early halfy hours, the second one I ever did, which

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Speaker 2: was about one of my very favorite tropes, the cinnamon roll.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's been on your head for so

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Speaker 3: like that's been on your mind?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, long it has.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say, since this came out, I

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Speaker 2: have started publishing fan fiction and I've just discovered all

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Speaker 2: of the various terms people used to refer to this.

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Speaker 2: I do talk about it in here. Samantha helped me

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Speaker 2: do the early part of that because I was too

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Speaker 2: scared to learn.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, no, one just.

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Speaker 3: And this is a naive atay, and it's kind of

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Speaker 3: faded away. Now you're telling me things. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't like this.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 2: I got a friend that has far surpassed me in

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Speaker 2: the fan fiction world, and she is constantly telling me

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Speaker 2: about some Star Wars story that I'm like, how do

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Speaker 2: you know about this?

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Speaker 1: And I don't. That's funny. I don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, a lot of these as fan fiction has

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Speaker 2: gone more mainstream, a lot of these tropes and terms

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Speaker 2: have gone more mainstream, and as I discussed recently in

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Speaker 2: a Happy Hour, I saw what I believe was a

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Speaker 2: misuse of cinnamon.

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Speaker 1: Roll in an article.

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Speaker 2: I disagree with how they described it. I don't disagree

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Speaker 2: with some of their points, but I disagree how they

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Speaker 2: described it. And this was when I was asking you

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Speaker 2: about True Blood, and I had just had so many

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Speaker 2: questions because I did watch that show, but I couldn't

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Speaker 2: remember it very well, right and Blood, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I can't imagine there's anybody on that show that's

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Speaker 3: a cinnamon roll.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember it well enough, but I do.

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Speaker 2: I I personally think because they were talking about the

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Speaker 2: bad boy vampire having a spell on him and being good,

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Speaker 2: which true, I don't think that counts as a cinnamon

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Speaker 2: role because the cinmon role only works if it's genuine.

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Speaker 2: If it's not genuine, it doesn't work.

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Speaker 4: So he kills somebody in his innocent stage.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I mean, you can't explain that a way

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Speaker 2: depending But I just because it was a spell, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: It has to be here.

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Speaker 3: And I'm pointing to our heart, y'all, just so you know,

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Speaker 3: she's pointing to our Heart.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, please enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to stepman.

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Speaker 1: Never told you protection Heart Radio.

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Speaker 2: So it is time for another Happy Hour once again

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Speaker 2: by happy coincidence, is actually Thursday.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so happy Thursday, everyone.

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to invite you to get a drink or

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Speaker 2: a snack or just do something to relax with us

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Speaker 2: for a little bit, as we love to share these

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Speaker 2: hopefully spaces in perhaps a stressful time or day for

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Speaker 2: you to take that moment whatever that means to you.

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Speaker 2: Please join us because I'm actually I'm so excited, and

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Speaker 2: Samantha can see, but I'm like smiling because I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited to talk about this. What I chose for this

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Speaker 2: Happy Hour topic which is my favorite fan fiction term

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Speaker 2: that I only discovered within the past year, I think, which.

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Speaker 1: Is cinnamon roll.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And so before we get into what that is,

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Speaker 2: and I swear this is related to feminism and women,

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Speaker 2: I promise, I promise, I promise.

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Speaker 1: Samantha knows that I love this very very much.

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Speaker 2: And as part of our watching Star Wars cocktail thing

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Speaker 2: that we've done where we've created a bunch of cocktails

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Speaker 2: for the original trilogy, Samantha, you created one called the

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Speaker 2: Cinnamon Roll.

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Speaker 3: Actually it's Annie's Cinnamon Roll. Oh, remember it was very

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Speaker 3: very specific. Did we name your segment because it's specific

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Speaker 3: to your nerd loves?

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Speaker 2: Well, the working title is Annie's Nerd Corner. But as

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Speaker 2: I said, I'm still workshopping.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: I was just trying to say if you've came up

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Speaker 3: with a new one or an actual lasting term.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I did create something for our very beginning.

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Speaker 3: Watchings, and because it is cinnamon roll, and I for

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Speaker 3: the longest time really thought you meant cinnamon roll, and

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Speaker 3: every time we talk about it, I crave cinnamon rolls,

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Speaker 3: and I'm very upset right now that I don't have

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Speaker 3: one in my face.

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Speaker 4: But it's okay.

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Speaker 3: I did decide that I was going to do a

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Speaker 3: cocktail specifically for you, because I have this love of

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Speaker 3: coffee and hot chocolate mix together. Of course, this is amocha,

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Speaker 3: I know. Don't don't at me. People, I know, but

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Speaker 3: we're not fancy like that. So I had to create

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Speaker 3: my own, which ended up being a dark coffee with

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Speaker 3: a scoop of your favorite hot chocolate.

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Speaker 4: Mine is a double dark chocolate.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a little dash of cinnamon obviously, because for

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Speaker 3: the cinnamon roll part. Some type of dairy or non

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Speaker 3: dairy ish creamer if you want. If you want to

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Speaker 3: make it alcoholic cool, do your Bailey's. If not, go

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Speaker 3: for your favorite creamer. I also have my sweet cream

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Speaker 3: Chibboni creamer.

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Speaker 4: I really do like that.

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Speaker 1: None of these things are sponsored in the way sponsorship.

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Speaker 3: And then you of course mix it up, stir together,

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Speaker 3: and then at the top, if you also want to

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Speaker 3: do a dash of whiskey, you know, for any I

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Speaker 3: do this for her specific you know, cinnamon roll, and

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Speaker 3: then we do a swirl of whipped cream because I

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Speaker 3: love some whipped cream with another dash of cinnamon top

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Speaker 3: of it. And that is your any cinnamon roll and.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Samantha. You nailed it. And that is

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Speaker 1: what we're sipping on right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm sipping on kind of a modified version because I

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Speaker 2: don't have all those ingredients. And I'll tell you as

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Speaker 2: I told Samantha, I'm a two coffee before noon gal.

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Speaker 1: I'm a two cup gal.

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Speaker 2: It's now like three here and I've had four coffees,

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Speaker 2: so I feel like I am flying high right now.

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Speaker 3: Yes, your jitteriness and happiness of caffeine is quite obvious.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, And I did want to mention one time, Like,

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Speaker 2: way back when I was I often talked to Samantha,

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Speaker 2: who was very kind to let me indulge.

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Speaker 1: In my fandom.

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Speaker 2: I often talked about cinnamon roll and sometimes I'll just say, like,

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Speaker 2: my sweet cinnamon roll randomly. One time, you did get

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Speaker 2: cinnamon rolls the food so we could enjoy cinnamon.

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Speaker 4: Rolls one bite and then I ate the rust, but

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Speaker 4: it was okay. I was still okay with it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so that is what we are sipping on.

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Speaker 2: But let's talk about the fan fiction term. So it

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Speaker 2: means someone who is too pure, too sweet, too innocent

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Speaker 2: for this world or galaxy, and usually suffers for it.

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Speaker 2: Almost always, in my fan fiction realm, it is almost

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Speaker 2: exclusively used to refer to Luke Skywalker from the original

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Speaker 2: Star Wars series. I've never seen it apply to anyone else,

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Speaker 2: but my fan fiction realm is pretty narrow, so like,

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Speaker 2: I can't say for sure, but he like I imagine

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Speaker 2: if this was a Dictionary entry, his picture would be

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Speaker 2: next to it. And it's my absolute favorite thing when

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Speaker 2: I read it. And as you know, samanth I was

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Speaker 2: scared to google what it meant. When I found out

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Speaker 2: the definition, I was like, oh my god, this is

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Speaker 2: exactly the thing.

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Speaker 1: This is what I love, and I love that.

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Speaker 2: It has a term, yes, and it also describes what

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Speaker 2: I Yeah, what I write there is also I want

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Speaker 2: to put in here cinnamon roll with an S.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. We went through a whole deep dive of these

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Speaker 3: different versions of cinnamon rolls.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you you helped me do it because I was

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Speaker 1: afraid to google it.

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Speaker 2: And that describes someone who appears to be super innocent

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Speaker 2: but is actually the opposite, or maybe better put like,

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Speaker 2: they appear to be a cinnamon roll with the sea,

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Speaker 2: but they're not. And then there's burnt Sinemon role, who

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Speaker 2: is somebody who was a cinnamon roll but thanks to

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Speaker 2: some trauma, is no longer a cinnamon eral. They are burnt,

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Speaker 2: and some people I could see the argument that Luke

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Speaker 2: and the Last Jedi is a burnt Centamon role.

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Speaker 3: Maybe in the newer ones Yon roll right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think so. I can see that.

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Speaker 2: And that's actually funnily enough, even though I would imagine

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Speaker 2: most people don't know this term. That is what they

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Speaker 2: didn't like about Luke in the newer ones that he

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Speaker 2: is a burnt cinnamon roll, and Luke is also specifically

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Speaker 2: for him. He's also interchangeably called son, sign child or

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Speaker 2: puppy in a poncho, which are very related.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one very specific scene. I have that pancho now,

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Speaker 2: Yes I know, and yes, I love this so much

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Speaker 2: that Samantha, she made me a wonderful She got a

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Speaker 2: wonderful mug made for me that has Luke on it

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Speaker 2: and a cinnamon roll that says precious cinnamon roll, too good,

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Speaker 2: too pure for this world.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'm drinking out of it right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was so excited when I found a person who

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Speaker 3: could do that for me on the perfect mug with

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Speaker 3: a perfect like this is why I love Etsy again,

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Speaker 3: not sponsored find people who are local and can do

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Speaker 3: these crafts.

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Speaker 4: For you, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I still love to think whoever this person was who

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Speaker 2: wonders about it, what is the cinnamon roll or either

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Speaker 2: knew it and was like, ah.

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Speaker 3: I feel like and it was so she Her response

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Speaker 3: seemed to be like, I know exactly what you want.

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Speaker 4: Like it, and it's exactly what I wanted.

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Speaker 3: So I have a feeling she knew, like, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to give a credit to that because there was no question.

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Speaker 2: I love it, I hope, so I absolutely adore the

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Speaker 2: I have a homemade coaster for cinnamon roll and a

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Speaker 2: shirt that says cinnamon rolls, not gender roles.

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Speaker 1: So I love it. I will put out there if

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Speaker 1: you're interested.

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Speaker 2: I would love if anyone was interested in wanting to

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Speaker 2: google more about this afterwards. I'd be surprised. But there

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Speaker 2: is a sex slang term sinmon roll too. It's actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe Google knows me too well, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: It was not on like the first page even I

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Speaker 2: don't think. Yeah, but just to put.

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Speaker 4: That out there now, I'm gonna wonder what that is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, don't look at it, okay, I can explain to

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Speaker 1: you later if you would like. No, no, no, no.

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Speaker 3: That says a lot, so I'm good.

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Speaker 2: So this term is believed to have originated from an

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Speaker 2: Onion article about how cinnamon rolls the food were too

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Speaker 2: good for this world, like we didn't deserve cinnamon rolls,

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Speaker 2: and some words and phrases associated with a cinnamon role.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go through a list. I did this

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Speaker 2: last night because I actually wrote this outline a long

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Speaker 2: time ago, and I kept thinking of things so kind, sweet, genuine, earnest.

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Speaker 2: Did I say kind, because that's a big one. Always

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Speaker 2: putting others first, self sacrificing, friendly, affectionate, compassionate, brave, standing

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Speaker 2: up for their beliefs, loyal, open, vulnerable, honest, good, pure, innocent,

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Speaker 2: a damn sweetheart right, breuscious, gentle, soft sunshine. They like

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Speaker 2: really see you, you know, and they're so open and

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Speaker 2: giving with their hearts and they're usually pretty forgiving. Okay,

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Speaker 2: but yes, what does this have to do with feminism

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Speaker 2: and women's issues? So this is my theory and it

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Speaker 2: is very personal to me. I don't think this is

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Speaker 2: why everyone likes or write cinnamon rolls of people who do,

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Speaker 2: but it is what resonates with me. And just a reminder,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately women and other marginalized groups, do you experience trauma

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Speaker 2: and PTSD at higher rates? And also they're the ones

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Speaker 2: most fan fiction, so I'm sure people are like, wait,

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about PTSD? Yeah, So the idea of

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Speaker 2: being so good and so pure that you make others better,

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Speaker 2: and this is a rhetoric we've heard particularly against women,

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Speaker 2: like used against women making men better in that hetero sense.

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Speaker 2: Sineminerals are also very genuine in their emotions and instead

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Speaker 2: of being judged for it, they're loved for it. And

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Speaker 2: that's nice to think, especially if you have been through

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Speaker 2: a trauma, that being open with yourself and your emotions

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Speaker 2: wouldn't drive people away, but instead it is a lovable

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Speaker 2: Trait is something people love about you, something that makes

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Speaker 2: you special.

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Speaker 1: That's a nice idea.

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Speaker 2: And then being so innocent that all the harm that

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Speaker 2: comes to you is not your fault, which is particularly

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Speaker 2: powerful when you've gone through a trauma and you're looking

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Speaker 2: for all these reasons, examining all these things of how

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Speaker 2: it was your fault, you're victim, blaming yourself, And just

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Speaker 2: that term innocent it is really loaded.

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Speaker 1: And here I'm not talking.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that often is used in a sexual

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Speaker 2: sense of like importunity.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that.

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Speaker 2: And this question of like can you still be innocent

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Speaker 2: and quotes after a trauma, And for me that was

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Speaker 2: a very important thing. I wanted to believe that even

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Speaker 2: after everything I've been through, I could be normal and

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Speaker 2: heavy quotes and happy and sweet. And also there's for

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Speaker 2: me personally, again, there's a level of not understanding the

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Speaker 2: world around you, especially the romance aspect and bad evil

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Speaker 2: things and just kind of not so great things and

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Speaker 2: bringing out those protective instincts and others because it without

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Speaker 2: you don't have to ask, and that is comforting because

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Speaker 2: for again, I have a really hard time asking for help,

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Speaker 2: and so the idea that someone could just help me,

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Speaker 2: that they can see that I need help and they

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Speaker 2: will and I don't have to ask, is.

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Speaker 1: Really comforting for me.

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Speaker 2: And this trope does almost always involve someone being comforted

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Speaker 2: and assured that you did nothing wrong and people just

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Speaker 2: being really protective of you. And this is tricky because

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Speaker 2: for me, I had these traumas at four hundive points

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Speaker 2: in my life and this protection protection at all king

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Speaker 2: met I price. So it's extremely powerful for me to

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Speaker 2: think that someone would protect me because they want to

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Speaker 2: because they like me, and not because they want something

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Speaker 2: from you. Which I know you can protect someone because

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Speaker 2: you like them and you love them and also want

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Speaker 2: something from them, but that is really hard for me

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Speaker 2: to accept. That's something I'm actually working on because of

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Speaker 2: what I went through. Yeah, semon rolls themselves are generally

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Speaker 2: always putting others first and never thinking of themselves and

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Speaker 2: that necessitates this protective instinct in others, even when it

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Speaker 2: comes to making sure they eat or sleep, which is

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Speaker 2: something I.

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Speaker 1: Can really relate to.

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Speaker 2: And I will say some people really don't like this trope.

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Speaker 2: They think that it's unrealistic, which no one's saying. It's

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Speaker 2: not a kind of goody two shoes territory. And that's

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Speaker 2: where you see the opposite of this, as in Loop

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Speaker 2: becomes an evil. Sith Board are kind of similarly Harry

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Speaker 2: Potter is in Slytherin. This is really cunning. I would

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Speaker 2: argue for some this is also a reaction to trauma.

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Speaker 2: Those things and they just coped in a different way

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Speaker 2: than I did, And that's not bad or wrong. It's

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Speaker 2: just how, as we said, people cope in different ways.

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Speaker 2: But TLDR, I love ceminon rolls, not a food. Yes,

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Speaker 2: the food is okay, but the trope is my favorite,

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Speaker 2: even though I know they are unrealistic. And I would

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Speaker 2: never want to put these restrictions on trauma on anyone

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Speaker 2: or how you should handle trauma. But it's nice for

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Speaker 2: me to read and write about I'm jokingly said, I'm

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Speaker 2: seminal sexual.

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Speaker 4: I could see that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I will say this was probably

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Speaker 3: the first things you told me about in fan fiction

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Speaker 3: world as I'm learning of such things. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think it's definitely a conversation about trauma as well. And

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Speaker 3: when we talk about Hey Potter specifically, I come from

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Speaker 3: like a social work perspective of like, no real kid

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Speaker 3: would be this okay and this good and this reality.

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Speaker 4: But that's not true. That's not true.

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Speaker 3: People react differently, and some do fight against the evil,

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Speaker 3: and some Jews have come to their own traumas. And

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Speaker 3: then when I say SubCom that means like whether it's

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Speaker 3: exploring yourself and finding yourself however necessary.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a whole thing.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, cinnamon rolls sounds really nice and does make

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Speaker 3: me want to eat a cinnamon roll.

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Speaker 1: It can be accomplished.

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Speaker 2: There's a part of me that's like, I wonder if

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Speaker 2: I could convince Samantha to read one of these fan

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Speaker 2: fictions so she knows what I'm talking about that I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I know you talk a lot about it,

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Speaker 3: so I feel like I've read some things, like even

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Speaker 3: without reading things, that's.

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Speaker 4: Okay, thank you well.

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Speaker 2: And I also want to say if I wasn't clear

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Speaker 2: I'm sure plenty of people read this and like it

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Speaker 2: because there is that dichotomy of like super sweet Luke

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Speaker 2: Skywalker and then you're like gruff on Solo, and that's

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Speaker 2: just some people just enjoy that, like contrasting characters, and

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Speaker 2: they're not reading it because it's like trauma interpretation. But

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Speaker 2: that's just for me. I think that's one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons that it really resonates. And I do think that

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Speaker 2: probably for other trauma people who've experienced trauma, that might

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Speaker 2: be something similar, but I could be absolutely wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from any listeners of your thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of any kind of like fan

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Speaker 3: fiction or when we talk about writing or needing something

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Speaker 3: cathartic and when you connect with a character so deeply

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Speaker 3: you see it part of yourself into that character, or

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Speaker 3: whether it's the environment and too I wanted to go

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 4: You hope for or you are fearful of. That's therapeutic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is, and I know I've talked about

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Speaker 2: it before, but it has been very therapeutic for me.

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Speaker 2: And if you want the mineral fan fake recommendations, I

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Speaker 2: have a million of them. I have a lot they're

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Speaker 2: almost all original trilogy Star Wars because that is what

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Speaker 2: I mostly read right now, and Luke is the main

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Speaker 2: character I've seen with that label. As I said, the

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Speaker 2: most Cinnamon role of the Cinnamon Rolls I've read is

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Speaker 2: a ten part twin swap fic being Luke and La

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Speaker 2: switch places called How the Other Half Lives by Arcadian Knights,

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Speaker 2: and I adore it. It's a series, so yes, ten

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Speaker 2: parts is a lot. Also, what's coming to an end?

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Speaker 2: And I'm very very sad you told me this. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and the author I wonder if they would agree about

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Speaker 2: the cinnamon role label, but I think so. But yes,

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Speaker 2: I have many recommendations. I will totally shout out your

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Speaker 2: fan fiction if you send it to us, and I

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Speaker 2: will send any rex to you. I also have a

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Speaker 2: music playlist that's Inmonroal themed and it's very sad. So

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Speaker 2: if you have any fan fiction you want to highlight,

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Speaker 2: or if you're looking for suggestions, you can email us

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Speaker 2: our email Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never

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Speaker 2: Told You, are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.

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Speaker 4: Thank you Christina, and.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening stuff I've never told you.

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Speaker 2: Use a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or ready listen to

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Speaker 2: your favorite shows