Speaker 1: Happy Holidays at Landia. Alexa and I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: you a conversation that we had a few weeks back
Speaker 1: just after Thanksgiving with three pet guests, Jared Dicker. Jared
Speaker 1: Dicker is back to talk to us about all things
Speaker 1: web three. As the Web three n f T Crypto
Speaker 1: Conversation continues on, we wanted to take a step back
Speaker 1: and really dig into some of the fundamentals around what
Speaker 1: we need to know as marketers and the implications and
Speaker 1: applications as we turned the page into twenty two. Hope
Speaker 1: you enjoy I'm off my game today. No, you're not.
Speaker 1: People are going to have to start making better content.
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna be talking about this for a
Speaker 1: long time. When you program for everyone, you program for
Speaker 1: no one. I think it's a were purpose driven platform,
Speaker 1: like we're trying to get to substance. How was that?
Speaker 1: Are you happy with that? This is marketing therapy right
Speaker 1: now and it really is. What's up? I'm Laura Currency
Speaker 1: and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome back Landia. Happy holidays at Landia.
Speaker 1: Because you know, I have a very big family, all
Speaker 1: of which convenes at my house every year. This is
Speaker 1: a tradition, right, yes, longtime tradition in my house watching
Speaker 1: the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, and it was the first
Speaker 1: time and very relevant to this conversation, I had heard
Speaker 1: the word n f T s in such a mainstream setting.
Speaker 1: You know, so much of what I've been following in
Speaker 1: the n f T space either comes from you or
Speaker 1: Web three, Twitter. And it was part of the parade
Speaker 1: where they were talking about Disney putting out a series
Speaker 1: of n f T s and special moments, which I
Speaker 1: think you picked up as well. Yeah, there was a
Speaker 1: bunch of a R work that they did. Actually, there
Speaker 1: was a balloon. If no one saw this. My daughter,
Speaker 1: my six year old daughter watches Macy's Day parade, so
Speaker 1: I was sitting there with her and there was a
Speaker 1: R balloon and a whole are Millennium falcon that came
Speaker 1: onto the screen. It actually looked very real. She thought
Speaker 1: it was a real balloon, and then it flew away
Speaker 1: into the sky. It was amazing. But what was exciting
Speaker 1: about it? This is why it was cool. To your point,
Speaker 1: it was like super mainstream. As our producer Ryan shared,
Speaker 1: it doesn't get more mainstream than the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade,
Speaker 1: and then I want to step further and just looking
Speaker 1: into it, Macy's was auctioning off ten n f T s,
Speaker 1: all proceeds going to make a Wish Foundation and releasing
Speaker 1: upwards of free n f T s. So are we
Speaker 1: at an interesting inflection point. N f t S Crypto
Speaker 1: Web three did not come up at my Thanksgiving table,
Speaker 1: but I imagine it came up at many others, And
Speaker 1: so we thought it was the perfect time Alexa to
Speaker 1: have a long time friend and guests of Atlantia come
Speaker 1: back on the show. Our three Pete Jared Dicker, general
Speaker 1: partner at the Chairning Group ECG. He is coming back
Speaker 1: to join us. And one of the things that Laura
Speaker 1: and I have been talking a lot about is how
Speaker 1: does the community in the show really become a bridge
Speaker 1: from where we are today to where we're going tomorrow.
Speaker 1: And Jared is a great guest who's always been kind
Speaker 1: of not only open to but pushing towards a very
Speaker 1: kind of real future. Really, like, here's the infrastructure that's
Speaker 1: being built. These are the things that I can point
Speaker 1: to and I know for certain that these are the
Speaker 1: things that are being thought about, invested in, built, and
Speaker 1: so we're going to continue to do that, continue to
Speaker 1: have those types of guests and conversations. Jared is one
Speaker 1: of those people. He has a really interesting kind of
Speaker 1: background and I think perspective and all of that really
Speaker 1: makes sense to where he is today. But music journalism,
Speaker 1: do technology to media company, running ad tech and running
Speaker 1: the advertising products at Washington Post now too, building funding
Speaker 1: and finding the best in the crypto media space. What
Speaker 1: was really interesting about the Jared conversation is this idea
Speaker 1: of brands having the ability to drive value in ways
Speaker 1: that they have never had. That the idea about getting
Speaker 1: away from the just transactional, just advertising side of things. Again,
Speaker 1: advertising is not bad. This is not a versus. This
Speaker 1: is an and it's also it's an iteration, but it's
Speaker 1: really about how do you start taking content again which
Speaker 1: has been happening for the last ten to fifteen years,
Speaker 1: and not just create value for your view but now
Speaker 1: it's about creating value with your viewer, with your audience.
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have a lot more CEOs and
Speaker 1: see a lot more CEOs in particular starting to look
Speaker 1: at where they can extend their business, where can they
Speaker 1: actually start to find more value market opportunities through web
Speaker 1: three and specifically on the quote unquote brand side, specifically
Speaker 1: on how that company starts to translate in new places.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say transact because it
Speaker 1: is a new way of thinking about transacting. That too,
Speaker 1: That too, we are there with transaction, new transaction models,
Speaker 1: new payment methods and models. I mean you can look
Speaker 1: at Square, to coin based, to any kind of crypto wallet,
Speaker 1: etcetera huge huge changes in this and how we buy,
Speaker 1: how we invest right is completely changing. And one example
Speaker 1: of that I will give you coin Based. The CEO
Speaker 1: recently said, I see us eventually and probably near future
Speaker 1: rather than far future, looking more like Instagram. Why because
Speaker 1: that's how people interact. But to your point, transaction and payment,
Speaker 1: how we pay and transact is completely changing into something
Speaker 1: that I think is much more mainstream and how we live.
Speaker 1: And you can look at shop you know, you can
Speaker 1: look at Shopify, you can look at e commerce, you
Speaker 1: can look at what Rachel Typographs started doing with McMackin
Speaker 1: thinking about how do you bring the transaction and the
Speaker 1: experience much closer together or one and the same. Um
Speaker 1: I think that's influenced how we transact. I'm thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about from the brand marketing side, what are the implications.
Speaker 1: And there's two ways in right now that I am
Speaker 1: able to start to begin to understand. The first one
Speaker 1: is about loyalty and providing tokens two consumers, presumably in
Speaker 1: a similar way you give people loyalty points. The loyalty
Speaker 1: points from my experience, particularly in retail, you buy something,
Speaker 1: your crew points to use those points to unlock offers
Speaker 1: that could be free shipping and handling, for example, right
Speaker 1: that could be early access to holiday sales. What I'm
Speaker 1: learning in this space is having a token also gives
Speaker 1: you access into this community. And it's really interesting to
Speaker 1: think about how a token allows you access into a
Speaker 1: curated dinner um with a hundred other people who are
Speaker 1: interested in said brand that want to come together and
Speaker 1: talk about specific industry. Right. So this idea of moving
Speaker 1: from loyalty for more consumption now can become loyalty for
Speaker 1: more content, loyalty for more experience, loyalty for more access,
Speaker 1: loyalty for more like minded conversations ownership. So there's that
Speaker 1: angle of it, and then the other one is the
Speaker 1: transaction element. We've been tracking over the last few weeks.
Speaker 1: The creation of the Constitution Dow. A number of people
Speaker 1: got together and said, there is a copy of the
Speaker 1: Constitution coming up for auction at South of Bees. We're
Speaker 1: going to begin to crowdsource the funds to bid on
Speaker 1: a copy of the U S Constitution one and twenty
Speaker 1: and it created fractionalized ownership. So the spoiler is unfortunately
Speaker 1: the Constitution Dow was outbid during this auction by a
Speaker 1: single bitter, by a single bidder. But there's some amazing
Speaker 1: statistics that came with this record number of money crowdfunded
Speaker 1: uh in less than seventy two hours was over twenty
Speaker 1: million dollars. I read on the Constitution Dow Twitter. They
Speaker 1: had seventeen thousand, four d and thirty seven donors, with
Speaker 1: the median donation size of two hundred and six dollars
Speaker 1: six cents, with a significant percentage of these donations coming
Speaker 1: from wallets that had been initialized for the first time.
Speaker 1: This thing took off in a way that was fascinating
Speaker 1: to watch, and despite the fact that they were outbid,
Speaker 1: proof of concept in fractionalized ownership. Thinking about a future
Speaker 1: where people are going to come together to buy things,
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating to think about all of the different
Speaker 1: things that this type of infrastructure can make possible totally.
Speaker 1: And what I thought was the most exciting was that
Speaker 1: it wasn't about a board ape, which I love board
Speaker 1: eight yacht club. That's not it. But I think that
Speaker 1: the world UM that's starting to learn about n f
Speaker 1: t S and learning about taos, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: skepticism right around the money that's spent, the things that
Speaker 1: are being created, digital art, etcetera, etcetera. And for the
Speaker 1: first time, I think that we saw a major historical
Speaker 1: coveted artif act that people got around UM not only
Speaker 1: with their dollars and their wallets, they got around in philosophy.
Speaker 1: It made sense. And here's the thing. The thing that's
Speaker 1: different about the DOW is that it says also says
Speaker 1: as much about your identity and your belief system, what
Speaker 1: you do and who you are as much as you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the board ape you buy or the bio you
Speaker 1: have for yourself and the work that you do, well,
Speaker 1: your wallet becomes your bio right and there you go,
Speaker 1: which is pretty crazy. Like if you start to think
Speaker 1: about what you buy, what you invest in, and the
Speaker 1: taos or the communities that you belong to that starts
Speaker 1: making up an identity for you. Um that is maybe
Speaker 1: more meaningful than your identity on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, cetera. Well,
Speaker 1: it's because what you're actually investing in. It's about where
Speaker 1: you're putting your wallet. And with that, we'll be right
Speaker 1: back all right at Landia. We are back with our
Speaker 1: partners that yield Mo, and this mini series we take
Speaker 1: on how contextual targeting is being reimagined as brands make
Speaker 1: every interaction with their consumer meaningful. Welcome Lisa Bradner, GM
Speaker 1: of Data and Analytics from yield Mo. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: great to be back. Always great to talk to you guys, Lisa.
Speaker 1: Every brand, every marketer is chasing the customer and the
Speaker 1: consumer what they want, and brands really need to have
Speaker 1: a perspective on where they show up, how they show up,
Speaker 1: and what those consumers need. And I think it really
Speaker 1: changes how marketers actually process and move through not only
Speaker 1: their marketing organizational structure, but maybe more importantly right now,
Speaker 1: their marketing process. How does that change the role of
Speaker 1: the marketer and really getting more closely aligned with the need,
Speaker 1: like a specific need of the consumer. First of all,
Speaker 1: I would say I would argue we've swung too far
Speaker 1: to sort of this insecure running after our customers hoping
Speaker 1: they'll pay attention to us, as opposed to going back
Speaker 1: to the brand d n A and saying, who am I,
Speaker 1: what do I stand for? How do I show up?
Speaker 1: What do I offer? And what cultural moments do I
Speaker 1: belong in and building from there. So it's a mix, right,
Speaker 1: It's it's what cultural moments are important to my consumers,
Speaker 1: but what cultural moments are important to my consumers that
Speaker 1: also fit for me. It's really closer to product management
Speaker 1: in the sense of, yes, sure you do research and
Speaker 1: you know what the market needs, and you understand what
Speaker 1: competitors are offering, and you know what people are looking for.
Speaker 1: But you've got a really clear brand value proposition and
Speaker 1: you're clear where that belongs and where that doesn't, and
Speaker 1: you're willing to sacrifice some of the you know, constant
Speaker 1: running to have bigger impact in key moments. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's part of it too, that sure, there's
Speaker 1: an always on strategy and the media will always have
Speaker 1: a level of always on, but that you're really thinking
Speaker 1: about the cultural moments or the seasonal moments or the
Speaker 1: audience moments where you need to be there and how
Speaker 1: you show up there, and you're crafting and experience around
Speaker 1: that that your media and creative partners are helping you
Speaker 1: build soup nuts. I wish more media buyers, creative directors,
Speaker 1: chief creative officers would actually think of themselves and by
Speaker 1: the way, cmos would think of themselves as product marketers
Speaker 1: in the way you're talking about, because it actually upends
Speaker 1: the way you start to think about your media. It
Speaker 1: starts to become a playground where you can get so
Speaker 1: close to the consumer in visa V and text and
Speaker 1: visa VI really testing those different signals. Um that it
Speaker 1: actually just changes the whole kind of role of a
Speaker 1: media person, a media buyer or or a creative Well,
Speaker 1: and you just said something really important, right, the testing.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's keep building on the product analogy. Right,
Speaker 1: here's a prototype, here's an m v P. Let's put
Speaker 1: it out, Let's let's see how people react to it.
Speaker 1: Let's pull it back, maybe tweak it a little more.
Speaker 1: Now we're ready for our big launch. But this notion,
Speaker 1: and you know what it is, it's rooted in sort
Speaker 1: of twentieth century TV campaigns. We have the campaign tadah
Speaker 1: um versus real time data, analytics and learning that can
Speaker 1: let us constantly iterate and get smart. You know, it's
Speaker 1: thinking like a direct marketer, but not in the way
Speaker 1: that we think of that sort of brand and performance line.
Speaker 1: Is it performing from brand metrics, Is it performing from
Speaker 1: sales metrics? Is it performing from long term brand health metri?
Speaker 1: Is it performing in terms of next step of sales happening?
Speaker 1: And everybody in your organization, brand or demand needs to
Speaker 1: be incentive across all of those kpi s, so they're
Speaker 1: working together. How does this then potentially bring brand and
Speaker 1: direct response closer together? A few years ago we've talked
Speaker 1: about it. You know, when you think like this, it
Speaker 1: completely collapses the funnel. Is that what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: and how do you think about that and really guide
Speaker 1: your clients into um kind of that test and learned
Speaker 1: mindset collapse the funnel. I totally understand why people use
Speaker 1: that firm, but I think it's potentially dangerous because then
Speaker 1: the temptation is to turn every single add into a
Speaker 1: direct response add right, or try to cram that call
Speaker 1: to action in your brand campaign. I think that the
Speaker 1: real time nature of data and putting a dr message
Speaker 1: in a brand message out in the same place and
Speaker 1: testing and seeing which one people engaging with, which one's
Speaker 1: working for you, which one is getting the next thing
Speaker 1: to happen. And you know, constantly running your brand health
Speaker 1: metrics so you make sure you're not undercutting your brands
Speaker 1: to drive sales, Constantly running your sales metrics and making
Speaker 1: sure that you're getting getting the sales numbers you need.
Speaker 1: So it's it's more subtle in the sense of understanding
Speaker 1: what each medium is best at, but then testing that
Speaker 1: hypothesis constantly. Um, so you're testing like a direct marketer.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean everything is a direct marketing message.
Speaker 1: So Lisa, three things just to recap this conversation that
Speaker 1: marketers need in their contextual toolbox, connecting media and creativity,
Speaker 1: finding moments of serendipity, and common sense. How is yield
Speaker 1: MO helping advertisers achieve one, two, or all three of
Speaker 1: those things to get started on the roadmap to contextual reimagined. Absolutely, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know the easiest way to get started is to
Speaker 1: start now. And I think the common sense part of
Speaker 1: this is starting to test and learn the reimagining context
Speaker 1: rule and what that means. We have pre curated deals
Speaker 1: that can be bought through your your trading desk and
Speaker 1: can quickly be executed, So you can start to get
Speaker 1: that data, you can start getting reporting, you can start
Speaker 1: to understand how we're reimagining context rule the signals that
Speaker 1: are available, and you can start imagining for your own
Speaker 1: company all the ways that those signals could be used
Speaker 1: to guide your marketing effort. You know, that's just one
Speaker 1: of many ways to start. I love to talk to
Speaker 1: about dynamic content a bunch of other things, but let's
Speaker 1: start there. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to you and the team at
Speaker 1: yield Mo for this conversation and for supporting Atlantia. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. It's always fun. M
Speaker 1: Welcome back at Lantia. We have a good friend and
Speaker 1: a third time at Landia guest, Jared Dicker, the general
Speaker 1: Partner at Cherning Group BCG. Welcome back, Jared. Hello, great
Speaker 1: to be here. So Jared, you have had this unlikely,
Speaker 1: very nonlinear career. You started at out as a journalist,
Speaker 1: You ran technology UH and the whole innovation advertising group
Speaker 1: at Washington Post. You went over to be the founding
Speaker 1: CEO of poet, a block chain startup that was looking
Speaker 1: at how decentralization and journalism and blockchain was going to work.
Speaker 1: And now now you're leading the crypto practice for the
Speaker 1: Churning Group. How did you get here? It's um uh?
Speaker 1: I mean, how do I describe? I like very much
Speaker 1: accidentally have fallen into all of these different jobs that
Speaker 1: have been extremely fun. Um. You know, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: I started as a music journalist. I'm a I'm a
Speaker 1: huge music head, and you know, it was pretty sure
Speaker 1: that that was going to be my life. And accidentally
Speaker 1: got a job at the Hufbon and Post off Craigslist
Speaker 1: and found, you know, found it so exciting to be
Speaker 1: building that's a new fact. I didn't know it was Craigslist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and and like this wasn't even too long ago.
Speaker 1: Like I worked at the Huffing and Post in two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten, two thousen so um people were still
Speaker 1: I guess looking for jobs off Craigslist then, or I
Speaker 1: just didn't know what I was doing. But I ended
Speaker 1: up at the Huffing and Post and really just started
Speaker 1: to fall in love with the business side of media.
Speaker 1: Found that it was a pretty low bar, I'm sure
Speaker 1: many of the people who listened to this show listened
Speaker 1: to the show in order to be inspired and kind
Speaker 1: of think about how to lift that bar. And I
Speaker 1: just found that to be a very like liberating, amazing experience,
Speaker 1: so stayed in media for a while. UM My venture
Speaker 1: into blockchain the first time was really a result of
Speaker 1: kind of things that I was seeing in the media business.
Speaker 1: Um you know, very obvious ones like big news and
Speaker 1: deep bigs, but even more so, like the sentiment that
Speaker 1: many media companies have, which is their content is valuable,
Speaker 1: they invest talent, it's better than their competitors. But when
Speaker 1: you looked at the um all the business models that
Speaker 1: reward that content, it's all effectively the same. Like a
Speaker 1: three million dollar investigative journalism piece from the New York
Speaker 1: Times could render the same financial results as a buzz feed,
Speaker 1: you know, viralistical article, even though so much money was
Speaker 1: put into one and barely any investment was going into
Speaker 1: the other. So that was kind of the main um
Speaker 1: patalyst for me wanting to get into blockchain. The technology was, well,
Speaker 1: what if all digital content starts to go on chain?
Speaker 1: And what are really cool things that we can do
Speaker 1: both in terms of leveraging provenance but also ownership and
Speaker 1: control to kind of put more value on creative works
Speaker 1: way too early, UM, but really kind of got me, UM,
Speaker 1: got me obsessed with this space. And now you know,
Speaker 1: I've been at Turning Group for about five six months. UM.
Speaker 1: I get to work with all of these founders that
Speaker 1: are now building you know, many of what you're building
Speaker 1: on that vision or aligned with that vision that you know,
Speaker 1: poet poet like originally seeked out to to solve. And
Speaker 1: it's been absolutely phenomenal. And I'm I like love people
Speaker 1: and love hanging out with people, and I'm extremely eight peeks.
Speaker 1: So there's no better job for me than to work
Speaker 1: with a million companies at once, So, Jared, so much
Speaker 1: of the hype, intrigue, and interest around Web three is
Speaker 1: seemingly coming at us from all angles, very very heavy
Speaker 1: in Twitter and following, certainly your Twitter handle, which if
Speaker 1: you're not following at Jared Dicker. There's so much Web
Speaker 1: two to Web three insight knowledge being dropped. But let's
Speaker 1: go to the one oh one Can you take us too?
Speaker 1: And its most simplistic form, the definition or at least
Speaker 1: the fundamental principles of Web three. What do we need
Speaker 1: to abandon or or build from in Web two to
Speaker 1: really understand the power and impact of Web three. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So one thing I'll start with, since this is at
Speaker 1: Landia and there's a lot of marketers that listen to this,
Speaker 1: is that I think I think we're hearing a lot
Speaker 1: more about web free because it is such a better
Speaker 1: brand and name to market than crypto and blockchain for
Speaker 1: the masses. You know, Web three has been a term
Speaker 1: that's been thrown around, and there's you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: some people that argue that we're we're not in Web three,
Speaker 1: We're in Web four, you know, blah blah blah. But
Speaker 1: like putting that all aside, I think Web three as
Speaker 1: a um, as a description and as a marketing term
Speaker 1: to describe what's happening as really stuck. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of become a bit obvious when people are
Speaker 1: looking at differentiation and the evolution of how we're moving
Speaker 1: from you know, social mobile web into blockchain has been
Speaker 1: something that's really stock. So I think that that's been
Speaker 1: a great marketing victory UM and one that I've been
Speaker 1: leveraging and leading on very heavily as well. UM. The
Speaker 1: ways that kind of like there's a bunch of different
Speaker 1: directions really think about Web three, but the biggest I
Speaker 1: think is um this bottoms up approach versus top down approach.
Speaker 1: So when you think about media, I think it's a
Speaker 1: great way to UM kind of really visualize this is
Speaker 1: that you know, media for the past five years on
Speaker 1: the Internet has been really top down, right, it's the
Speaker 1: brand and you know, the brand owned distribution at one point,
Speaker 1: you know, helps manage the audience, provides content and programming
Speaker 1: that keeps people engaged, UM. But the relationship with the
Speaker 1: consumer or the reader or the user UM is very
Speaker 1: transactional and kind of one side. It's like you either
Speaker 1: pay for content with money through a subscription and you
Speaker 1: get access to it and it kind of ends there.
Speaker 1: Or you know, you get content for free by means
Speaker 1: of attention and advertising and the content is there, but
Speaker 1: there's really been like no strong benefit for uh, the
Speaker 1: individual consumer and reader beyond the programming and content itself.
Speaker 1: And that's because of this top down approach. And Web
Speaker 1: three is really leaning it on this bottom stuff approach.
Speaker 1: So a great way to really kind of visualize this
Speaker 1: as well is UM if you write for sub stack
Speaker 1: In Web two, you're writing on a platform. You know,
Speaker 1: you have a newsletter, Uh, you are um making money,
Speaker 1: you know, or driving subscriptions off of your newsletter. So
Speaker 1: Jared Dicker has a newsletter, He's making money off it.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm like, I kind of want substack to succeed,
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty indifferent, right because I'm not really incentivized.
Speaker 1: Like if substack doesn't exist tomorrow, I can move my
Speaker 1: blog over to you know, mirror or or medium or
Speaker 1: other types of platforms. I'm like, okay, if other readers
Speaker 1: are competitors, succeed, but again, like that's really not an
Speaker 1: incentive that I have. I'm more interested, you know, if
Speaker 1: my newsletter does well. And with Web three and bottoms up,
Speaker 1: you effectively are incentivized to do all three. Right, You
Speaker 1: as publisher want to make money and drive value off
Speaker 1: of your work. Because of the way that token mechanics work,
Speaker 1: you effectively have equity in that platform. So not only
Speaker 1: are you making money and driving value out of your work,
Speaker 1: but if the platform succeeds, you succeed as well. And
Speaker 1: you're kind of rooting for all other writers and contributors
Speaker 1: to be successful too, because that makes the platform more successful.
Speaker 1: So it's a way more bottoms up collective kind of
Speaker 1: holistic approach. And UM, what I'd say is like, I
Speaker 1: don't think Web two and Web three is binary, and
Speaker 1: we could go deeper on this, like I think there's
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's areas of opportunity for both sides.
Speaker 1: But the way I would think about web free is
Speaker 1: a completely new evolution, new business models, new ways of
Speaker 1: working together and coordinating, um, and really kind of an
Speaker 1: unlocked from what we've traditionally been locked into, especially on
Speaker 1: the media side, which has been advertising and subscriptions. What
Speaker 1: pushed this frenzy around n f t S and as
Speaker 1: you're going into it, practicality of how that's going to expand, shape, grow, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So I think very quite simply like you could just
Speaker 1: think of n f t S as bringing digital ownership
Speaker 1: to the Internet. Um. You know, in all of its
Speaker 1: existence of the Internet, UM, we have presumed that anything
Speaker 1: published or put online can easily be replicated, mimicked, stolen,
Speaker 1: and we built entire businesses around that, right, like Napster
Speaker 1: basically deconstructed music and then we built music again back
Speaker 1: up through Spotify, an Apple and SoundCloud. Et cetera. Um,
Speaker 1: we saw it in digital media, right, Like you know,
Speaker 1: the whole entire business of the Huffing and Post was
Speaker 1: around paraphrasing New York Times articles but winning in search
Speaker 1: and social because we wanted we if we got more traffic,
Speaker 1: we would drive more revenue through advertising. So the whole
Speaker 1: kind of ethos of the Internet was that nothing that
Speaker 1: was really done digitally to be probably owned. Thus we
Speaker 1: built no business models around that. And the main disruptor
Speaker 1: with n f t S is that, for the first
Speaker 1: time ever, digital ownership has probably come to the Internet,
Speaker 1: and um, you know that's that's a massive impact that
Speaker 1: can't be overstated, but I think is very underappreciated and
Speaker 1: not yet understood because we've just been trained and have
Speaker 1: worked and have you know, engaged on a web where
Speaker 1: that just has never been the case. So the main,
Speaker 1: the main thing to know with n f t S
Speaker 1: is that it is a function and digital ownership. I
Speaker 1: think people focus on what's transacting on openca and looking
Speaker 1: at JPEG's and digital art and they start to think
Speaker 1: about n f t S in this very macro vision,
Speaker 1: which is like everything needs to be a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars or everything's collectible or everything's tradeable UM. But it's
Speaker 1: really important to not think about n f t s
Speaker 1: as a product. You really have to think of NTS
Speaker 1: as a process, which is, you know, when you put
Speaker 1: something online, you want to be able to prove ownership
Speaker 1: UM and provenance of that sort of information. So right
Speaker 1: now we're seeing that happen in digital art UM. We're
Speaker 1: seeing a massive kind of acceleration towards music. But my
Speaker 1: my point of view is that every single piece of
Speaker 1: content or i P or information that goes on the
Speaker 1: Internet will start as an n f t and and
Speaker 1: we're going to very quickly enter a world where every
Speaker 1: single thing is an n f t UM. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone is going to be able to seek prominance of
Speaker 1: information who created what. It really opens up like massive
Speaker 1: opportunities throughout a variety of industries. I mean, one of
Speaker 1: which is ticketing. Right Like if all tickets were n
Speaker 1: f t s, UM a lot of like league owners.
Speaker 1: Let's say you know, the owner, the owner of the
Speaker 1: New York Giants UM sells primary tickets and then in
Speaker 1: the secondary market when they go on StubHub, they you know,
Speaker 1: see no value return of that right, The fans who
Speaker 1: buy the tickets could resell them, resell them, resell them,
Speaker 1: resell them, and the owners, you know, get no benefits
Speaker 1: there if tickets become an en T. That's a really
Speaker 1: good example, by the way, Yeah, because if tickets become
Speaker 1: an n f T, all the like royalties are programmable
Speaker 1: through smart contracts. So if you issue a ticket as
Speaker 1: an n f T, you say, you know, primary sales
Speaker 1: are a hundred dollars and all subsequent secondary sales ten
Speaker 1: percent goes back to the owner. And that happens completely programmably,
Speaker 1: Like there doesn't need to be a human intermediary. It's
Speaker 1: just every time that ticket is resold and goes from
Speaker 1: a wallet to another wallet, ten percent goes back to
Speaker 1: the owner. So now you live in a world where owners, right,
Speaker 1: or artists or whomever right, Like it could be musicians
Speaker 1: who are selling tickets. They don't just benefit from secondary markets,
Speaker 1: but now they encourage it. Right. The idea of StubHub
Speaker 1: is actually fascinating, and um there is there's like some
Speaker 1: conversations happening where you know, eventually secondary markets may be
Speaker 1: more lucrative or artists or owners or you know, people
Speaker 1: that work in creative entertainment type businesses or secondary just
Speaker 1: is a lot more lucrative than primary. What I think
Speaker 1: it's also important to think about, like as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: Web two two, Web three is kind of evolutionary um
Speaker 1: and Chris Dixon has a great point about things being skew.
Speaker 1: More pick is that we're kind of in that phase
Speaker 1: of blockchain, which was very similar to when we went
Speaker 1: from linear and print to the web to mobile, where
Speaker 1: you know, until it becomes very obvious what's foundational and native.
Speaker 1: Everybody has like a mobile strategy and a mobile website
Speaker 1: and thinking about how to retrofit this new technology into
Speaker 1: their existing models, and then all of a sudden, right
Speaker 1: the app store comes out and it's a holy ship
Speaker 1: moment where oh, this is what mobile is, and this
Speaker 1: is how mobile native things are built, and you know,
Speaker 1: like that kind of really sparks and becomes obvious to
Speaker 1: the masses what this new industry is. In blockchain, we
Speaker 1: are in that intermediary phase where there's a lot of
Speaker 1: companies thinking about their blockchain strategy or how they can
Speaker 1: leverage it with their existing business, or what their blockchain
Speaker 1: angle is going to be, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: something's going to happen rather quickly. That is very blockchain
Speaker 1: foundational and obvious where we're going to see, right, the
Speaker 1: blockchain native companies start to rise and be pure Web three,
Speaker 1: and it's just going to become very obvious that we're
Speaker 1: in this next space. So I'd be careful to like
Speaker 1: focus too much on how blockchain works for your existing
Speaker 1: business and pay more attention to, you know, the things
Speaker 1: that are truly decentralized in the Web three that are
Speaker 1: going to become foundational and lead us in this next half. Yes,
Speaker 1: what are you creating new and who are you creating with?
Speaker 1: I think is the way I think about it and
Speaker 1: process right, and it is a whole new process. So Jared,
Speaker 1: I want to I want to break down a couple
Speaker 1: of things because for a lot of our listeners, their marketers,
Speaker 1: their marketing leaders breakdown Providence. It's actually so I was
Speaker 1: an art student and Providence came from art, right, So
Speaker 1: the way you knew who created a work and then
Speaker 1: who owned that work was Providence. There was a date,
Speaker 1: a history of that ownership passed down quite literally on paper,
Speaker 1: and the value of that particular asset, and so talk
Speaker 1: about why Providence. You've said it a few times in
Speaker 1: the conversation, is so critical to the idea, the process
Speaker 1: of blockchain of web three. And then what I also
Speaker 1: think is under talked about, especially in on the marketing side,
Speaker 1: a smart contract. Mm hmmm, yeah, so on the provident
Speaker 1: side of things. I mean, I think like this is
Speaker 1: again blockchains. You know, the biggest core value you know,
Speaker 1: being being you know, effectively an immutable database is that
Speaker 1: you are able to kind of see where information derives
Speaker 1: from um and then you could effectively build things on
Speaker 1: top of that. So UM I said before that I believe,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to think about n f T
Speaker 1: is not just as a product, but as a process.
Speaker 1: And no, and that all digital content is going to
Speaker 1: be an n f team means that every single like
Speaker 1: inception of an idea or i P frankly, whenever it's
Speaker 1: published to something M is going to store all the
Speaker 1: information of who created it, you know, who were the collaborators,
Speaker 1: who purchased it, what hands it exchange And you could
Speaker 1: really kind of drill that down and you know to
Speaker 1: the point that you were making with art. And I
Speaker 1: think while we're seeing so much um, so much adoption
Speaker 1: and excitement happening in the digital art world is because
Speaker 1: it is carrying that ethos over right. You can see, um,
Speaker 1: get artists from original creators. You know, that value is
Speaker 1: perceived and purchased, and then you could see like a
Speaker 1: lot of people find value in purchasing something that might
Speaker 1: have been owned by you know, Alexa Christian previously, like
Speaker 1: there's there's a value apprual that is built on top
Speaker 1: of this sort of providence and blockchain you know, really
Speaker 1: kind of opens and enables that. Um. What I loved
Speaker 1: about it in the early IT days was, you know,
Speaker 1: and this was like a time work. Fake news was
Speaker 1: really you know, the topic to sure was that, you know,
Speaker 1: there could be a world where you're going through your
Speaker 1: Facebook news feed and you see a video of Obama
Speaker 1: speaking and it may look like Obama and sound like
Speaker 1: Obama and have the CNN logo. Um, but it might not.
Speaker 1: It might be a deep fake. It might have been
Speaker 1: created by someone else, you know, maybe false information. And
Speaker 1: I believe that there's going to be more value brought
Speaker 1: to the Internet by being able to kind of expose
Speaker 1: and bring that information up. So the main kind of
Speaker 1: ethos of that is that you are able to kind
Speaker 1: of like build a supply chain around everything that is
Speaker 1: happening and you're able to kind of track it down
Speaker 1: to its inception, which you know is great information and
Speaker 1: data to have, but also so important when it comes
Speaker 1: to perceive value and ability to transact and and um
Speaker 1: kind of better understand like purchased a good and truth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it gets pretty heavy in terms of truth
Speaker 1: and verifying truth yeah, um, which is I think pretty exciting,
Speaker 1: especially when you go back to the fake news, which
Speaker 1: I don't think we're out of. Yeah, And like smart contracts,
Speaker 1: you know, just quickly go hand in hand. It's like
Speaker 1: if you're if all information is going to be put
Speaker 1: on chain, then you want to be able to programmably
Speaker 1: set the rules of operations of how that's going to work,
Speaker 1: so you know the price of it being purchased, you
Speaker 1: know what secondary markets set up start to look like
Speaker 1: we're really trying to figure out how you build more
Speaker 1: efficiency in that. And that's kind of goes the whole
Speaker 1: ethos of kind of the ownership economy, right. It's like
Speaker 1: we are we are for the first time, like able
Speaker 1: to prove ownership digitally on digital content on the Internet.
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating is that, Yes, we're like seeing all
Speaker 1: of these new platforms and crypto native opportunities emerge that
Speaker 1: are built off of that. But think about how much
Speaker 1: we have to rethink how we've structured our businesses on
Speaker 1: the Internet for the past twenty years. Right, we assume
Speaker 1: that digital ownership wasn't possible because it wasn't and now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden its So I think we're going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of existing like industries and businesses
Speaker 1: really start to rethink, like one, how this affects them
Speaker 1: and to what the opportunity could possibly be for them
Speaker 1: to build better businesses because for most of them, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet was highly disruptive for a lot
Speaker 1: of these legacy businesses, whether it was like newspapers, record labels,
Speaker 1: um or broadcast stations, and pre Internet was really an
Speaker 1: error where they owned everything. They didn't just like own
Speaker 1: the assets, but they own their audience, they own distribution,
Speaker 1: and you know, this idea of digital ownership could bring
Speaker 1: a lot of that back. So I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: to look at both sides of the coin and brands
Speaker 1: have had to keep pace with that. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of marketing teams cmos are thinking about how does
Speaker 1: this impact my communication strategy, How does this impact my
Speaker 1: marketing plan? How does this impact what I'm buying, How
Speaker 1: I'm buying, where I'm buying, why I'm buying. What would
Speaker 1: your advice be, two brands, because to me, this isn't
Speaker 1: a should I. This is a matter of when I
Speaker 1: and what's the process brands have to go through to
Speaker 1: adapt to what will become the next iteration of the web,
Speaker 1: I mean the whole i E conversation and what's happening
Speaker 1: in this space with kind of n f T s
Speaker 1: and and and p fps which are kind of the
Speaker 1: profile pictures, the board at clubs, the crypto punks, the
Speaker 1: ones that are kind of umm becoming people's identity. Is
Speaker 1: that I p starting to become compossible, which is fascinating.
Speaker 1: So a lot of these major n f T projects,
Speaker 1: you know, namely board Apiacht Club. Um they've sold ten
Speaker 1: thousand apes and if you purchase one of these apes,
Speaker 1: you have full commercial rights to do whatever you want
Speaker 1: with that ape. So um they have, like the creators
Speaker 1: of board apes, like make money off the first purchase
Speaker 1: and make money off all subsequent purchases. However, if you
Speaker 1: buy that ape. You could use that for whatever you want.
Speaker 1: You can build t shirts, you can sell them, you
Speaker 1: can leverage their likeness. Um. A friend of mine built
Speaker 1: a character out of his board a called Jenkins the valet. Um.
Speaker 1: There their their literary writers. Um, they built this entire character,
Speaker 1: you know, wrote this entire story and created this narrative
Speaker 1: around this ape who was the valet at the board
Speaker 1: a yacht club and all the things that he sees
Speaker 1: and experiences, and uh, it got massive. You started selling merch,
Speaker 1: you know, physical merch, digital merchant. Now he's signed the
Speaker 1: cia UM to do a book deal and as a
Speaker 1: huge following on Discord I follow Yeah, a massive following
Speaker 1: on Discord. But it's like it would be a situation
Speaker 1: where like Disney would create a new movie and effectively say, well,
Speaker 1: any of the fans who purchase or part of the
Speaker 1: community could go and build on top of that I
Speaker 1: P and monetize. Right. So it's a completely new way
Speaker 1: of thinking about I P UM and the compossibility of
Speaker 1: i P which effectively is like i P is put
Speaker 1: into you know, into the ether, and then other people
Speaker 1: could build on top of it as they please. But
Speaker 1: that's a major shift, um and I think it's a
Speaker 1: shift that a lot of brands need to think about
Speaker 1: because there's definitely a lot of benefit to enable that,
Speaker 1: to open that up, to get people more deeply engaged,
Speaker 1: to have more affinity with brands, um you know, but
Speaker 1: arguably like isn't going to work everywhere, Like you're not
Speaker 1: going to see Marvel or Disney or others kind of
Speaker 1: brushed to that too quickly. Um. So that's a big
Speaker 1: thing that I think is like worth everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: to this spending their time on like really kind of
Speaker 1: seeing all of them building of IP and leverage of
Speaker 1: IP that's happening in the n f T world, and
Speaker 1: that is because of just how the business model and
Speaker 1: structure is set up. You have to be very authentic
Speaker 1: in this space. Uh. I think I think you could
Speaker 1: probably say that for everything, like for every um you know,
Speaker 1: big marketing trend or you know. The way the way
Speaker 1: I've been saying and now is like once it makes
Speaker 1: the like digital or ad week or ad age um
Speaker 1: like things, things, things start to bubble up. And I
Speaker 1: think it's very important in this space to remain authentic
Speaker 1: if you want to reach the right audience and you know,
Speaker 1: be perceived well and bring the most value because this space,
Speaker 1: more than any is just very tribal. Right, people have
Speaker 1: to build reputation like both like socially but like quite
Speaker 1: literally on chain, Like everything you do with your cryptoolities
Speaker 1: is like reported. So like you know, people people build reputation. Um,
Speaker 1: you have to like be in and spend time and
Speaker 1: spend energy like really kind of showing value. And I
Speaker 1: think you know, brands that may try to come in
Speaker 1: and do an n f T drop um, you know,
Speaker 1: could often come across as like an authentic So I
Speaker 1: think there needs to be a lot of time really
Speaker 1: put in and thought about how how brands play, where
Speaker 1: they play, what that value actually is. Because I think
Speaker 1: for most, at least at this time, since it's early,
Speaker 1: it's better for them to stay out of it than
Speaker 1: for them to just artificially be in it. Here's what
Speaker 1: I think it's really exciting. I actually think for the
Speaker 1: true brand strategist, right, and that's not just marketing, that's
Speaker 1: looking at the brand, the business, the business models, those
Speaker 1: types of things. For the true brand strategist, this is
Speaker 1: an incredibly exciting time. So it's not just about associating
Speaker 1: your brand and your product right and thinking about how
Speaker 1: does it live in this new world. It's really about
Speaker 1: how to extend that brand ethos and purpose and philosophy
Speaker 1: right into all new spaces and places. That to me,
Speaker 1: when you say authenticity, that's what I think about, and
Speaker 1: that it's like almost the possibility in my mind. Why
Speaker 1: I get so excited when you were talking to you
Speaker 1: see me like bouncing. Why I get so excited is
Speaker 1: because for the true kind of business minded marketer and strategist,
Speaker 1: this is kind of a turn almost to a classic
Speaker 1: era of marketing that actually drives new marketplace value. And
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about your brand like that, if you're
Speaker 1: thinking about your infrastructure like that, you will win Alexa.
Speaker 1: As you're saying that, I'm thinking about there's ten thousand
Speaker 1: iterations of the board eight. There is only one iteration
Speaker 1: of most legacy brand logos. You would never dream of
Speaker 1: iterating on a logo that has been in the market
Speaker 1: for over a hundred years, that that identity and the
Speaker 1: equity that exists there. Thinking about breaking up one of
Speaker 1: those logos into ten thousand pieces and then handing it
Speaker 1: as too shareholders who can make it their own now
Speaker 1: instead of having this one vertical identity. There are ten
Speaker 1: thousand ways to move into new spaces and places that
Speaker 1: all will come back to a central ethos, right, I
Speaker 1: mean is that fair to say? Yeah? A way to
Speaker 1: really just boil that down in one sentence is that
Speaker 1: every single one of your customers becomes a paid influencer, right, So,
Speaker 1: like right now, like I'm drinking like a spin drift,
Speaker 1: and I have an iPhone and you know these are
Speaker 1: like utilities and things I consume, but anyone who sees me,
Speaker 1: I'm effectively marketing their products for them, right, But right
Speaker 1: now I don't get any benefit out of that. Um
Speaker 1: And of course, like you know, there's an argument that
Speaker 1: I should, right, And that's not the way it's set
Speaker 1: up in Web three. It's different right in Web three,
Speaker 1: because you are both, like I wrote a piece called
Speaker 1: wise subscribe when you can invest, right, you're effectively a
Speaker 1: consumer and a shareholder of that brand. Right. You are
Speaker 1: thus incentivized right to to promote it, to be a
Speaker 1: part of it. So if you're building native Web three,
Speaker 1: you know you are really thinking about each of your
Speaker 1: customers as like an influencer. You know, a subscriber as
Speaker 1: someone who shares mutually beneficial value and tries to push
Speaker 1: the brands. And that's how you really kind of need
Speaker 1: to set things up. That's also why right the the
Speaker 1: authenticity is so important because I do believe that in
Speaker 1: Web three, the biggest opportunity today, right is in the
Speaker 1: active consumer. I think like the biggest things that we're
Speaker 1: seeing unlocked, at least from an investment perspective, And what
Speaker 1: I'm looking at is this notion of seven consumer, so
Speaker 1: people being able to participate and engage around the clock, right,
Speaker 1: not limited on time. Um, we kind of saw that
Speaker 1: unlock with point base right point based basically said you
Speaker 1: don't have to trade markets between not like nine and five,
Speaker 1: and not over the weekends, because that's when it opened
Speaker 1: into encloses. You trade on your time, and there's you know,
Speaker 1: we're seeing that across a variety of industries, Like we
Speaker 1: invested in a company called z dot Run, which is
Speaker 1: a virtual horse racing game where people purchase horses right
Speaker 1: as n f T s. They could breathe them, they
Speaker 1: could raise them, and then they could earn value and
Speaker 1: upside right if their horse places whenever they want. You
Speaker 1: don't have to purchase the physical horse. You don't have
Speaker 1: to go to the derby. You know, you're not constricted
Speaker 1: by physical limitations. And on the other side, right, it's
Speaker 1: like this idea of like ownership, like ownership is massive
Speaker 1: and it is unlocking a ton of different things. So
Speaker 1: it is it is foundationally something that is completely new
Speaker 1: UM and you know that is going to take a
Speaker 1: lot of like infrastructure focus and the architecture of how
Speaker 1: things currently exist in order to get comfortable doing that,
Speaker 1: which is why I believe like a lot of these
Speaker 1: things are going to happen natively in blockchain first before
Speaker 1: they're really going to happen in more legacy environments. Some
Speaker 1: of the things you're saying. And also this idea makes
Speaker 1: me think so much of bology, Sir ronson um inheriting
Speaker 1: versus founding, and it is everyone should read it. It
Speaker 1: is brilliant and it is right. And we've been in
Speaker 1: this kind of um inheritance world and I want to
Speaker 1: this is all jump us into media. You know, if
Speaker 1: you think about all the major media at companies in
Speaker 1: the world, they've been inherited literally passed down from families, right,
Speaker 1: and you think about that, and now web three is
Speaker 1: this opportunity and blockchain has created this opportunity that to
Speaker 1: your point, if you are a practitioner, if you like
Speaker 1: really learn the technology, really understanding get involved with the community,
Speaker 1: then you become a practitioner. The idea and the potential
Speaker 1: for partnership and founding. I think we're going to see
Speaker 1: a completely kind of new twist. So that takes us too.
Speaker 1: What is the future of media? Jared? Yeah, So, I um,
Speaker 1: I mean you you head on a topic that will
Speaker 1: segue nicely into this. I always believed for like years
Speaker 1: that you know, the media business was somewhat evolutionary that
Speaker 1: you know, we had advertising and subscriptions and you know,
Speaker 1: all kind of innovations for new models kind of emerged
Speaker 1: out of that. So you know, e commerce was effectively
Speaker 1: a part of advertising, and you know, subscriptions kind of
Speaker 1: moved through like membership type models. But basically we had
Speaker 1: to foundational pillars that were built out of and Web
Speaker 1: three is really kind of the first time, like in
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred years, that we've had a very
Speaker 1: revolutionary type model and it kind of has to do
Speaker 1: with we're seeing like a lot of people that are
Speaker 1: building in media leveraging it right now. So the ability
Speaker 1: to basically crowdfund your media business before it launches as
Speaker 1: an n f T. So there's some companies that are like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to write about this topic. You know, this
Speaker 1: is our editorial plan. We're going to do it for
Speaker 1: six months. This is the amount that we need to raise.
Speaker 1: Right In exchange, you get this n f T, which
Speaker 1: gives you, you know, kind of like founder type relationships
Speaker 1: with the media company itself. You may get social tokens
Speaker 1: out of that that if you governance right, so you
Speaker 1: can help us decide what we should cover, what topics
Speaker 1: are interesting, if there's treasury, what events we should do.
Speaker 1: But really kind of like reinventing the idea of how
Speaker 1: media companies need to be structured versus traditional VC or
Speaker 1: advertising models or subscription models or billionaire buyers like and
Speaker 1: what's amazing with that sort of structure is that your
Speaker 1: readers are, you know, kind of foundational in the success
Speaker 1: of your company. And it's kind of built up a
Speaker 1: sentiment that I think we have today, right, Like I
Speaker 1: subscribe to a lot of substacks. I subscribe to some
Speaker 1: media UM and like at least like news media or
Speaker 1: written media UM. For the most part, I'm doing it
Speaker 1: right in in a somewhat altruistic way, like I may
Speaker 1: read the content, but I may but I really like
Speaker 1: the topic, and I want them to continue writing because
Speaker 1: I think it's important. And I may want to support
Speaker 1: the writer because they're my friends, and all of those
Speaker 1: kind of feelings could completely be stronger if you know,
Speaker 1: I moved over to feeling more like an investor because
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I want to do, right, Like
Speaker 1: the content is cool, but I really believe in what
Speaker 1: you're doing. I want to support you, and how can
Speaker 1: I start to align incentives to do that. So that's
Speaker 1: really where I think Web three revolutionizes media in a
Speaker 1: very fantastic way. UM, where you know, you really have
Speaker 1: this core group of people who effectively are baked in distribution,
Speaker 1: right because they're incentivized to do so. They want to
Speaker 1: share this content, um, they're hyper incentivized to engage, so
Speaker 1: there's no like gimmix to get people to click or
Speaker 1: to get people to spend time in the chat. Anyone
Speaker 1: who spends time in these discords or these dows or
Speaker 1: like sees the activity happening there because everyone is kind
Speaker 1: of sharing the same purpose as opting in and seeking
Speaker 1: and and and finding value and kind of what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like I always use the hufband
Speaker 1: and Post example, right, because we kind of did this
Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Um. The success of the hufband and
Speaker 1: Post really wasn't about the content um going viral right
Speaker 1: or winning search and social, which is very important. It
Speaker 1: was about the comments section, if you remember, like so
Speaker 1: many people would spend time there, they comment, they'd gauge
Speaker 1: a conversation. We've built an intrinsic badging mechanism which basically,
Speaker 1: the more you participated, the more you completed, the more
Speaker 1: you unlocked. Maybe you were able to curate conversations or
Speaker 1: be a leap moderator. Eventually, blog on the post and
Speaker 1: crypto is that what three? Is that with extrinsic added
Speaker 1: on as well, So not only is it valuable for
Speaker 1: you socially, but now it can also be valuable for
Speaker 1: you financially. And that changes the whole ethos. That kind
Speaker 1: of how we think about this. And that's not going
Speaker 1: to be possible for like you know, WAPO or Wall
Speaker 1: Street Journal or buzz Feed or others to really do right.
Speaker 1: They have their existing business and they'll probably leverage n
Speaker 1: f T s and there'll be great things that they
Speaker 1: could test and do there. But to really see the
Speaker 1: revolutionized mechanisms that are going to happen, We're going to
Speaker 1: see things happen more foundationally, and I think like we'll
Speaker 1: see that, like the creator economy was a great bridge
Speaker 1: to that because people were leaving aditional jobs. They're building
Speaker 1: on their own, don't realize, hey, this is really hard. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to find other like minded people to build with,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna effectively build their own media companies that
Speaker 1: I am very hopeful that they're going to build those
Speaker 1: on top of platforms like Mirror and like you know,
Speaker 1: these Web three type platforms that have built these functions
Speaker 1: and mechanisms for them to do that. What happens to
Speaker 1: CNNs and NBCs even more important? I look at Netflix.
Speaker 1: Netflix is still a one pipe distribution. They own it,
Speaker 1: they decide, right, they decide the content, the programming, they
Speaker 1: own it, and they distribute it. Yeah. So my feelings here,
Speaker 1: and I kind of said this before, is that I
Speaker 1: feel Web three at this moment is really about the
Speaker 1: active consumer. Um. I think the passive consumer platforms are
Speaker 1: more powerful than ever and more valuable than ever. Like
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be very hard to disrupt Spotify,
Speaker 1: where I get all the music in real time for
Speaker 1: ten dollars. Netflix has the best programming. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: when I consume Netflix kind of sitting back, I want
Speaker 1: to be told what to watch. Um. Same with CNN.
Speaker 1: So I think that there's a place, Like I said, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's binary. I don't think Web three
Speaker 1: needs to sweep through. That's why I do believe the biggest,
Speaker 1: like the biggest like holy Ship moments are going to
Speaker 1: come from foundationally Web three properties that show us how
Speaker 1: these things you're done from the ground up, because I
Speaker 1: do think, you know, like a great examples Twitter, I
Speaker 1: think Web three conversation and crypto has made Twitter, a
Speaker 1: web to centralized platform, more powerful than ever. Where people
Speaker 1: are spending time, that's where the conversations are, That's where
Speaker 1: people are putting their n f t s as their
Speaker 1: profile pictures. So there's definitely a place. I think the
Speaker 1: focus for Web three and the excitement for Web three
Speaker 1: should be around the active consumer. How you can better
Speaker 1: incentivize people to engage or do things. Thinking about both
Speaker 1: the intrinsic social and extrinsic financial mechanics that crypto unlocks
Speaker 1: and really try to see how those could you know,
Speaker 1: better affect your business. As you're talking about the implication
Speaker 1: stions for the media industry around subscription versus investing that transition,
Speaker 1: I really don't see much of a difference on the
Speaker 1: brand side either. On our last episode with MICHAELA. Solar March,
Speaker 1: who was the former CMO of Tishman, we were talking
Speaker 1: about dows and the idea of consumers coming in um
Speaker 1: around brand, around spaces, around clubs, whatever the case is,
Speaker 1: and actually having that level of ownership through investment. What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I feel
Speaker 1: like if you go to like my ethos that all
Speaker 1: digital content will be n f T s, then like
Speaker 1: the biggest opportunity I think for brands is, you know,
Speaker 1: anything that they do physically should have something UM connected
Speaker 1: to them digitally, right because now there's a lot of
Speaker 1: value and perceived function on that. So, like I think,
Speaker 1: like the fashion industry, you know, we're seeing like in
Speaker 1: games like rollblocks or even you know more kind of
Speaker 1: blockchain based games, people are paying a lot of money
Speaker 1: for like assets, you know what they look like, um,
Speaker 1: you know how they could use them within the functions
Speaker 1: of how they work within kind of more virtual worlds.
Speaker 1: I was going to say metaverse, but I promised myself
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say metavers on this and this on this thing.
Speaker 1: But like I think, I think for brands like a
Speaker 1: philosophical way and like very like you know, kind of
Speaker 1: heavy way to think about it. Is this, right, we
Speaker 1: we spend more time than ever online. Um, Like I
Speaker 1: talk to probably hundreds of people a day online who
Speaker 1: know me through my Twitter avatar or through my email
Speaker 1: address or you know, through Instagram. Like, however, however I'm
Speaker 1: communicating with them. Rarely anyone sees me physically, right besides
Speaker 1: my family and maybe some when I meet for dinner.
Speaker 1: And the whole movement of web three is more people
Speaker 1: living online, right, Like how we make money online, you know,
Speaker 1: how we spend our time. Time and identity and status
Speaker 1: are massive unlocks and opportunities on the brand side for
Speaker 1: what it looks like when we live online, Like I
Speaker 1: wear this hat, I wear this shirt at tattoos. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like, if more people see me online and I
Speaker 1: care about my presence, then I'm going to want to
Speaker 1: represent the brands that I love. Have the kind of
Speaker 1: perceived you know, kind of notion and identity that I want.
Speaker 1: And that's where I think brands really start to start
Speaker 1: to really push on lock and the whip three, the
Speaker 1: captis and you guys don't know the stat better. Like
Speaker 1: the early days of e com, remember it was like, oh, women,
Speaker 1: women like aren't spending money online? And now what like
Speaker 1: I think they make up? But think about web three.
Speaker 1: It's like, right now people are transacting with meta masks
Speaker 1: wallets and they're buying things on open sea. But one
Speaker 1: thing to note is like, and I don't have the
Speaker 1: science behind this, but I am way more willing to
Speaker 1: spend thousands of dollars out of my meta mask wallet
Speaker 1: that I am to spend thousands of dollars out of
Speaker 1: my actual wallet. Like just the functions we talked about us,
Speaker 1: but the functions of being able to make that purchasing
Speaker 1: decision and buy it because digital goods hold value is
Speaker 1: a way easier decision for marketers to think about then
Speaker 1: be actually like spending money out of my pocket. Um.
Speaker 1: But the second thing is is that right now it's
Speaker 1: it's mostly dues, right, and if blockchain and this sort
Speaker 1: of way to transact and digital ownership is basically going
Speaker 1: to be taking over e commerce. Think about the opportunity
Speaker 1: for brands and all of these companies that are going
Speaker 1: to bring in those audiences, and that should be where
Speaker 1: the focus is. The focus should be like how do
Speaker 1: I bring everything that I do and the value that
Speaker 1: is perceived on me physically digitally because now I have
Speaker 1: the functions to do it, and how do I bring
Speaker 1: my customers for that ride? And I think there will
Speaker 1: be a massive opportunity there. Chris Dixon was just on
Speaker 1: Tim Ferris. It was actually it was a great to do.
Speaker 1: Listen to that podcast. It was great, it was fantastic.
Speaker 1: And one of the things Christic since that was he
Speaker 1: was like, point based didn't need marketing, doesn't need marketing.
Speaker 1: Coin Based now has a CMO, but whatever, Right, this
Speaker 1: person didn't need marketing. This person didn't need marketing because
Speaker 1: their fans and members are also owners and those people
Speaker 1: and this is what you're going back to, Like the influencer, right,
Speaker 1: It puts so much more meaning around the influencer. Those
Speaker 1: people are doing the marketing. Naturally, they're incentivized to do
Speaker 1: the marketing. But I think what's really interesting for marketers
Speaker 1: and to your point about like brands getting involved in
Speaker 1: this and looking for the right partners and those types
Speaker 1: of things is like, in a bit, it's kind of like, also,
Speaker 1: look no further right than your best customer, and how
Speaker 1: are you working with them, How are you leveraging them,
Speaker 1: how are you investing in them versus what they're buying
Speaker 1: from you? The marketing teams now need to be thinking
Speaker 1: about thousand residents totally. I think that's the great idea.
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that and and and this already exists, right,
Speaker 1: these brands and marketers and whatever. Companies just have to
Speaker 1: like send an internal note and asking like I get
Speaker 1: you know, tons of d ms a day from people
Speaker 1: that work in agencies or media companies or elsewhere that
Speaker 1: you know, um wanted like are fascinated with this space,
Speaker 1: like people people at Washington Post. I had a group
Speaker 1: of like fifteen people who were into crypto, who deeply
Speaker 1: understood the space. Who were you know, frankly like expert consumers.
Speaker 1: And the way the way to really go about it
Speaker 1: if you're one of these larger companies and you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what's going on, is one ask who's involved,
Speaker 1: Like talk to people within your organization. Guarantee there's many
Speaker 1: of them that are buying n f t s that
Speaker 1: are in the discord, groups that contribute to dows Um,
Speaker 1: that are building again, like I said earlier, reputation around
Speaker 1: their work and making the connections and figure out how
Speaker 1: to pull those people up. It's kind of like and
Speaker 1: this is like so like philosophically sound for dows right,
Speaker 1: Like why I love dallos Um for like many sorts
Speaker 1: of reasons, one of which is like, you aren't like
Speaker 1: categorizing value and talent based on a hierarchy, Like anyone
Speaker 1: who's worked in a large company knows that, like the
Speaker 1: sea level makes the decision there acratic hierarchy exactly and
Speaker 1: DAWs effectively like break up that hierarchy. Everyone could contribute,
Speaker 1: could share ideas. You know, everything is pretty much like
Speaker 1: discussed and you know what kind of brought to a
Speaker 1: vote in terms of governance, but it really kind of
Speaker 1: breaks down that structure. And you could argue right that
Speaker 1: there is a ton of value lost in companies being
Speaker 1: structured this way. I don't think like all companies should
Speaker 1: be dallas Um by any means, but I think there
Speaker 1: should be certain groups or areas, or at least certain
Speaker 1: decisions like, Hey, we're a media company and we want
Speaker 1: to figure out if we should be doing things in
Speaker 1: you know, um like this new platform, and if we
Speaker 1: should invest in it. Traditionally, they'll write a memo, they'll
Speaker 1: discuss it with the executive team, and the executive team
Speaker 1: makes a call. What they should really be doing is
Speaker 1: grabbing the twenty five people that work at that company
Speaker 1: who are experts to actually live this world and let
Speaker 1: them figure it out together and make that decision. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting in the big shift because
Speaker 1: I worked at you for a long time and it
Speaker 1: is the company that actually built the manager right to
Speaker 1: find what middle management was is that, Yes, grab the people,
Speaker 1: hire the practitioner and work with them to figure this out.
Speaker 1: But also go and work with your customer. I think
Speaker 1: that customers right want very specific things, and they know
Speaker 1: your brand sometimes and I think more so now and
Speaker 1: is going to be increasingly better than the marketing manager
Speaker 1: working on the brand. Yeah, of course, of course. And
Speaker 1: like that's where again like to really kind of go
Speaker 1: full circle in the conversation. It's really a bottom suck mentality.
Speaker 1: It's welcoming in you know, your your your collaborators, your colleagues,
Speaker 1: your employees, your customers, and really trying to build a
Speaker 1: new way to come to better decisions, to kind of
Speaker 1: move forward value value right, And it's probably doing that.
Speaker 1: I mean, dows are still early, right, Like we we
Speaker 1: wrote about this one article on dark Star, which is
Speaker 1: probably my favorite one so far, which was basically like
Speaker 1: that these crypto communities are the MC mansions of the Internet.
Speaker 1: So basically like digital ownership is here and everyone is
Speaker 1: like launching an n F team project and building a
Speaker 1: community and setting up a dowb um. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of like in the eighties or nineties when everyone like
Speaker 1: moved to like rural areas and their mega mansions, right,
Speaker 1: but there was like no downtown. No one spent time
Speaker 1: building community activities. It was just like a mortgage lender
Speaker 1: and a bank. And now like a lot of them
Speaker 1: are deserted or you know people people no longer live there,
Speaker 1: they move back to the cities. So it's very important,
Speaker 1: I think to focus on programming when it comes to
Speaker 1: like building these relationships and building these communities. And I
Speaker 1: think some dows, depending on who's in them, will do
Speaker 1: that very well. But I think to assume that all
Speaker 1: dows are going to do that isn't necessarily the case.
Speaker 1: So I think like programming is very important. People that
Speaker 1: are spending time and helping to coordinate and drive conversations
Speaker 1: will be critical to like seeing seeing these things succeed
Speaker 1: long term. So Jared, what should marketers be watching in
Speaker 1: the media space or who should they be watching in
Speaker 1: the media space? Yeah, I mean I think like Twitter,
Speaker 1: like Twitter is the best place for this um, you know,
Speaker 1: especially if you want to keep up to date on
Speaker 1: you know, certain thought leadership. UM. I call it like
Speaker 1: business fiction UM, where like people are just coming up
Speaker 1: with crazy ideas that they just work to make factum,
Speaker 1: which I find very like motivating UM. Or like what
Speaker 1: new like n f T projects or products or programs
Speaker 1: are really coming out? UM. People people do great lists,
Speaker 1: so like I would like check out like Koopa. Troopa
Speaker 1: is a great handle who creates these lists of like
Speaker 1: who you should follow if you want to learn more
Speaker 1: about Taos, if you want to learn more about n
Speaker 1: f T s UM. I feel like those things are
Speaker 1: more like like are just so more and more common.
Speaker 1: But that's the best way. I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: the builders and the thinkers and um, you know people
Speaker 1: who are spending time they're not like writing articles, are
Speaker 1: necessarily doing interviews. I mean some are obviously like we're here,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, people are spending most of
Speaker 1: their time on Twitter, creating content, putting ideas out there,
Speaker 1: having discourse with one another. So to really go deep,
Speaker 1: one like find the right people, which you easily account
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and two you have to put in the effort,
Speaker 1: like if you want to learn about web three, sign
Speaker 1: up for a wallet, you know, get on Twitter, get
Speaker 1: into the discords, like really throw yourself in it for
Speaker 1: two weeks. I guarantee you'll get like addicted and it'll
Speaker 1: just kind of open your eyes as for what's possible,
Speaker 1: and you'll both be inspired but also pretty convinced that
Speaker 1: this is, you know, the next the next front, here
Speaker 1: an opportunity. Who are you watching from a media company
Speaker 1: standpoint me, you're leading the crypto practice presumably, I mean
Speaker 1: the Turning Group is but investing in media companies and
Speaker 1: new media companies entertainment for a while. Now. This is
Speaker 1: obviously not investment advice, just disclaimer. So i'd like, I
Speaker 1: don't really I believe that there is opportunity in bottoms
Speaker 1: of media that is going to happen through dows and
Speaker 1: you know companies like mirror Um which don't necessarily need
Speaker 1: investment or funding because they're basic doing that with the community,
Speaker 1: with the people UM. I actually have yet to really
Speaker 1: get super excited about traditional media companies and web three
Speaker 1: I think and exists and new media companies and web
Speaker 1: three that are outside of those like smaller kind of
Speaker 1: like bottoms up consortiums. I actually think that the brands,
Speaker 1: like the companies that are building like platforms, whether that's
Speaker 1: around like learning, you know, different ways to engage with
Speaker 1: blockchain or gaming, are actually going to become the media companies.
Speaker 1: Like I think we're like it's funny, right, we always
Speaker 1: talked about brands publisher and it became such like a
Speaker 1: weird like b S type thing UM. But in the
Speaker 1: case of it wasn't originally of course, like all Laura's
Speaker 1: clients do it the best. But in like this space,
Speaker 1: like some of the most provocative thinkers and workers are
Speaker 1: the CEOs or the people that work at these platforms
Speaker 1: and they're creating content and they're bringing community, and I
Speaker 1: think like the media companies that will kind of look
Speaker 1: at and consume, and you know, in like like like
Speaker 1: focus our energy on, are actually going to be companies
Speaker 1: that provide a service and value that want to like
Speaker 1: target more top of funnel, create content, focus on distribution,
Speaker 1: and media companies are kind of built out of that.
Speaker 1: I mean a big one, a big one that I
Speaker 1: always talked about that I think is like very relatable,
Speaker 1: is like if local news was it now, So if
Speaker 1: local news effectively you're gonna need another show. There's so
Speaker 1: much innovation going on in this area. By the way,
Speaker 1: there's so much innovation. I just want to like for
Speaker 1: marketers out there. Local news used to be a service, right, Like,
Speaker 1: its role was really informing the community around you know, crime,
Speaker 1: new business, selections, government, um et cetera. And then just
Speaker 1: because of the business models, they had to move away
Speaker 1: from that, right, advertising became a scale game. So your
Speaker 1: local newspapers started focusing on national actions and national stories
Speaker 1: and you were like, I don't need them for this, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I think the cool idea for this would be if
Speaker 1: there was a community that you know, each household purchased
Speaker 1: a token right that gave them ownership of the local newspaper,
Speaker 1: and that token allowed them to kind of choose and
Speaker 1: vote who to hire, as like the editor um allowed
Speaker 1: them governance on what to cover, so like basically, you know,
Speaker 1: the residents would be able to say, don't cover you know,
Speaker 1: the mid term elections, cover why this five G tower
Speaker 1: is in my backyard and who's funding it, and like
Speaker 1: let's get to the bottom of this, like really being
Speaker 1: hands on with getting local news to like service the community.
Speaker 1: That's an amazing use case and it's less And this
Speaker 1: is what I love about Web three. People focus so
Speaker 1: much on the financials, but that is way less about
Speaker 1: the financials and way more about the influence and more
Speaker 1: about saying, I'm not investing in this because I want
Speaker 1: to make money and dairy drives the bottom line. Of course, Jared,
Speaker 1: you have to come back. We have a part two,
Speaker 1: Part three. We didn't even get to secondary markets. There's
Speaker 1: so much more to unpack on the brand side. But
Speaker 1: as you know, before you go, we need the jard
Speaker 1: Dicker Web three bye bye bye. So what am I buying?
Speaker 1: I am I am actually buying Meta like not the stock,
Speaker 1: but I love the even though like I know there's
Speaker 1: so much discussion around like Facebook et cetera, and the announcement.
Speaker 1: I am very butt in on the idea of what
Speaker 1: oculus has done and how quickly it's been able to move,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of like outside innovation
Speaker 1: that needs to influence it. But I am pretty bought
Speaker 1: in on that area of meta in the future. Okay,
Speaker 1: what are you saying goodbye to? By? What am I
Speaker 1: saying goodbye to? Um? Honestly, I think I think I
Speaker 1: think I'm saying about it. I mean, this is a
Speaker 1: is me being totally roped into Web three, but I'm
Speaker 1: definitely saying about the traditional advertising. Yeah, well, thank you.
Speaker 1: I hope we all are so there will not be
Speaker 1: banner ads on the blockchain. No, I think I think
Speaker 1: brand dollars will exist, But I think brand should start
Speaker 1: focusing on like n f t s, building stronger communities,
Speaker 1: how to like build more loyal audiences, like just use
Speaker 1: your money elsewhere right, Like, Because if brands are purchasing
Speaker 1: advertising in order to reach audiences and convert to purchase goods,
Speaker 1: you know what better way, going back to the example earlier,
Speaker 1: if you could start to build mechanisms where if you
Speaker 1: are you know, effectively advertising for a brand, but that
Speaker 1: brand is also like recognizing that now and rewarding you.
Speaker 1: Then do they really need to be spending money to
Speaker 1: target you or do you actually start to find those
Speaker 1: brands find that value because you're incentimized to do that. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's right obvious and that writing is on
Speaker 1: the wall. But a lot of people will challenge that
Speaker 1: and be like, you know, it's you know whatever, gazillion
Speaker 1: dollar market and the dollars need to go somewhere. You know,
Speaker 1: I do believe that that that that marketers, you know,
Speaker 1: especially one is listening right here, and you know, advertisers
Speaker 1: should get smart about where that goes. It doesn't just
Speaker 1: mean reallocate display or targeting users. It should go to
Speaker 1: like how do you functionally start to invest in your customer? Yes? Also,
Speaker 1: is it fair to say that will be the end
Speaker 1: of the CPM model? I mean, I mean that's really
Speaker 1: up to you guys. Okay, Well, I think here's the thing, right, Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. The ad like object on digital. The
Speaker 1: banner AD came out of right remnant inventory. The battery
Speaker 1: ad right basically came out of the transitionary moment, which
Speaker 1: is from printed digital where where newspapers didn't want to
Speaker 1: spend any energy on digital advertising because print was their
Speaker 1: business and they put one person on it that designed
Speaker 1: the page in an exact replica of the printed and
Speaker 1: put the ads on the side and didn't stop it.
Speaker 1: So Google came in and said, hey, we'll figure out
Speaker 1: how you monetize that, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: they own their business. I mean traditional like media companies
Speaker 1: give that business away Goog Google didn't take it. They
Speaker 1: didn't put any attention for time on that. And we're
Speaker 1: in that moment right now. This is why, like when
Speaker 1: people you go back to and I think maybe we
Speaker 1: spend maybe part of session to episode two with Jared
Speaker 1: dicker on this is the content evolution because I think
Speaker 1: that for marketers, they looked at it is like another
Speaker 1: place to do advertising rather than creating valuable, right, something
Speaker 1: valuable And like, let's look at that fucking arc by
Speaker 1: the way, you follow that, Excuse me, I get so excited,
Speaker 1: But you look at that arc and then you can
Speaker 1: see where Web three is going. Yeah, well it finally
Speaker 1: is what. Content is not an afterthought or an add
Speaker 1: on or an ancillery project. It is the path, Yes,
Speaker 1: it is, yes, content and programming, it's programming and then
Speaker 1: you want to talk about the the agency model. Now
Speaker 1: is the time where agencies have the opportunity to go
Speaker 1: and create. You have to shift. There are so many
Speaker 1: freaking amazing storytellers and creatives and in innovators and under
Speaker 1: they understand the fact that there are thousands of creatives
Speaker 1: sitting in advertising agencies still making thirty second adds when
Speaker 1: they could be creating these phenomenal experiences and value for
Speaker 1: the consumer blows my mind. So when you're no longer
Speaker 1: confined to a thirty second time frame orny nine bucks,
Speaker 1: it changes the game. But before you go, what are
Speaker 1: you doing yourself? The last by B why what is
Speaker 1: Jared Dicker doing? What am I doing myself? D I? Y? Yes,
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Oh it's Christmas time. I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: putting together all the kids towards Jared Dicker. You're coming back.
Speaker 1: If you're not following at Jared Dicker, be sure to
Speaker 1: go hit the follow button. So much unfolded in the feed, Jared.
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure when we can find you. We appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Know how many texts have Jared? Where are you? Are
Speaker 1: you there? Oh? Well, thank you Jared, and come back
Speaker 1: from part with you, of course, so always a fascinating
Speaker 1: conversation with Jared. We're fortunate enough to get our own
Speaker 1: version of Jared Dicker consulting on the group text, but
Speaker 1: appreciate Jared coming by. This is like conversation one of
Speaker 1: a hundred and getting deeper into an understanding, uh, everything
Speaker 1: that this new Web three space has to offer. And
Speaker 1: I think what's really interesting, Alexas you don't have to
Speaker 1: wait for your organization to get into Web three to
Speaker 1: start to think about the application of principles for how
Speaker 1: we market today. You shouldn't wait. I think that's the
Speaker 1: big thing. Like, you shouldn't wait, and you should be
Speaker 1: hiring people and talent and partners and talking to lots
Speaker 1: of people about where you can kind of uniquely start
Speaker 1: to experiment. I was talking to a really good friend
Speaker 1: of ours the other day, Nick Dasarian at Target, and
Speaker 1: we were talking about maybe now more than ever, brand
Speaker 1: marketers and media folks who have been on the media
Speaker 1: side really have the opportunity to think and act and
Speaker 1: start to function in their organization more like product people
Speaker 1: or product marketers. And why that's important is because understanding, again,
Speaker 1: you always have to go back to understand that consumer
Speaker 1: and what they're about, what they're doing, and what they're
Speaker 1: interested in, and then how to bring them value. Plus,
Speaker 1: the whole world basically is driven by media right now.
Speaker 1: And I think Jared prompts us in this the media
Speaker 1: model for how we buy, how we look at media,
Speaker 1: where we buy media, who we're buying it from, how
Speaker 1: we're actually transacting on that media has got to change.
Speaker 1: So there's huge change. I don't know how that's going
Speaker 1: to happen, but you know one thing that I would
Speaker 1: love to do is invite the Atlantia community to come
Speaker 1: and start to think about that with us. So Atlantia,
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of things to solve out there
Speaker 1: and we love to hear from you. How are you
Speaker 1: thinking about Web three, what are you doing, what are
Speaker 1: your questions, who are you talking to and how do
Speaker 1: we start to think about media buying, selling and strategy
Speaker 1: for Web three. We want to hear from you, So
Speaker 1: hit us up at Landia podcast on Twitter. We want
Speaker 1: to hear from you. So that is it. At Landia
Speaker 1: coming to a close. Thank you so much for listening
Speaker 1: to all of our great conversations this year. Big thank
Speaker 1: you to all of our guests for stopping guy and
Speaker 1: I heart for supporting us, Alexa Ryan, our producer, and
Speaker 1: I wishing you all the best. In two we'll be
Speaker 1: back with all new episodes, and be sure to follow
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Atlantia Podcast to hear what's coming next.
Speaker 1: H