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Speaker 1: Happy Holidays at Landia. Alexa and I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: you a conversation that we had a few weeks back

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Speaker 1: just after Thanksgiving with three pet guests, Jared Dicker. Jared

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Speaker 1: Dicker is back to talk to us about all things

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Speaker 1: web three. As the Web three n f T Crypto

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Speaker 1: Conversation continues on, we wanted to take a step back

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Speaker 1: and really dig into some of the fundamentals around what

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Speaker 1: we need to know as marketers and the implications and

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Speaker 1: applications as we turned the page into twenty two. Hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy I'm off my game today. No, you're not.

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Speaker 1: People are going to have to start making better content.

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna be talking about this for a

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Speaker 1: long time. When you program for everyone, you program for

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Speaker 1: no one. I think it's a were purpose driven platform,

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Speaker 1: like we're trying to get to substance. How was that?

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Speaker 1: Are you happy with that? This is marketing therapy right

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Speaker 1: now and it really is. What's up? I'm Laura Currency

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Speaker 1: and I'm Alexa Kristen. Welcome back Landia. Happy holidays at Landia.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, I have a very big family, all

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Speaker 1: of which convenes at my house every year. This is

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Speaker 1: a tradition, right, yes, longtime tradition in my house watching

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Speaker 1: the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, and it was the first

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Speaker 1: time and very relevant to this conversation, I had heard

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Speaker 1: the word n f T s in such a mainstream setting.

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Speaker 1: You know, so much of what I've been following in

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Speaker 1: the n f T space either comes from you or

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Speaker 1: Web three, Twitter. And it was part of the parade

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Speaker 1: where they were talking about Disney putting out a series

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Speaker 1: of n f T s and special moments, which I

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Speaker 1: think you picked up as well. Yeah, there was a

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Speaker 1: bunch of a R work that they did. Actually, there

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Speaker 1: was a balloon. If no one saw this. My daughter,

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Speaker 1: my six year old daughter watches Macy's Day parade, so

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Speaker 1: I was sitting there with her and there was a

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Speaker 1: R balloon and a whole are Millennium falcon that came

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Speaker 1: onto the screen. It actually looked very real. She thought

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Speaker 1: it was a real balloon, and then it flew away

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Speaker 1: into the sky. It was amazing. But what was exciting

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Speaker 1: about it? This is why it was cool. To your point,

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Speaker 1: it was like super mainstream. As our producer Ryan shared,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't get more mainstream than the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade,

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Speaker 1: and then I want to step further and just looking

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Speaker 1: into it, Macy's was auctioning off ten n f T s,

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Speaker 1: all proceeds going to make a Wish Foundation and releasing

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Speaker 1: upwards of free n f T s. So are we

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Speaker 1: at an interesting inflection point. N f t S Crypto

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Speaker 1: Web three did not come up at my Thanksgiving table,

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Speaker 1: but I imagine it came up at many others, And

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Speaker 1: so we thought it was the perfect time Alexa to

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Speaker 1: have a long time friend and guests of Atlantia come

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Speaker 1: back on the show. Our three Pete Jared Dicker, general

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Speaker 1: partner at the Chairning Group ECG. He is coming back

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Speaker 1: to join us. And one of the things that Laura

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Speaker 1: and I have been talking a lot about is how

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Speaker 1: does the community in the show really become a bridge

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Speaker 1: from where we are today to where we're going tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: And Jared is a great guest who's always been kind

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Speaker 1: of not only open to but pushing towards a very

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Speaker 1: kind of real future. Really, like, here's the infrastructure that's

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Speaker 1: being built. These are the things that I can point

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Speaker 1: to and I know for certain that these are the

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Speaker 1: things that are being thought about, invested in, built, and

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Speaker 1: so we're going to continue to do that, continue to

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Speaker 1: have those types of guests and conversations. Jared is one

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Speaker 1: of those people. He has a really interesting kind of

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Speaker 1: background and I think perspective and all of that really

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Speaker 1: makes sense to where he is today. But music journalism,

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Speaker 1: do technology to media company, running ad tech and running

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Speaker 1: the advertising products at Washington Post now too, building funding

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Speaker 1: and finding the best in the crypto media space. What

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Speaker 1: was really interesting about the Jared conversation is this idea

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Speaker 1: of brands having the ability to drive value in ways

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Speaker 1: that they have never had. That the idea about getting

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Speaker 1: away from the just transactional, just advertising side of things. Again,

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Speaker 1: advertising is not bad. This is not a versus. This

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Speaker 1: is an and it's also it's an iteration, but it's

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Speaker 1: really about how do you start taking content again which

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Speaker 1: has been happening for the last ten to fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: and not just create value for your view but now

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Speaker 1: it's about creating value with your viewer, with your audience.

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have a lot more CEOs and

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Speaker 1: see a lot more CEOs in particular starting to look

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Speaker 1: at where they can extend their business, where can they

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Speaker 1: actually start to find more value market opportunities through web

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Speaker 1: three and specifically on the quote unquote brand side, specifically

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Speaker 1: on how that company starts to translate in new places.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say transact because it

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Speaker 1: is a new way of thinking about transacting. That too,

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Speaker 1: That too, we are there with transaction, new transaction models,

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Speaker 1: new payment methods and models. I mean you can look

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Speaker 1: at Square, to coin based, to any kind of crypto wallet,

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Speaker 1: etcetera huge huge changes in this and how we buy,

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Speaker 1: how we invest right is completely changing. And one example

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Speaker 1: of that I will give you coin Based. The CEO

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Speaker 1: recently said, I see us eventually and probably near future

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Speaker 1: rather than far future, looking more like Instagram. Why because

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Speaker 1: that's how people interact. But to your point, transaction and payment,

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Speaker 1: how we pay and transact is completely changing into something

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Speaker 1: that I think is much more mainstream and how we live.

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Speaker 1: And you can look at shop you know, you can

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Speaker 1: look at Shopify, you can look at e commerce, you

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Speaker 1: can look at what Rachel Typographs started doing with McMackin

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Speaker 1: thinking about how do you bring the transaction and the

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Speaker 1: experience much closer together or one and the same. Um

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Speaker 1: I think that's influenced how we transact. I'm thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot about from the brand marketing side, what are the implications.

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Speaker 1: And there's two ways in right now that I am

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Speaker 1: able to start to begin to understand. The first one

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Speaker 1: is about loyalty and providing tokens two consumers, presumably in

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Speaker 1: a similar way you give people loyalty points. The loyalty

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Speaker 1: points from my experience, particularly in retail, you buy something,

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Speaker 1: your crew points to use those points to unlock offers

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Speaker 1: that could be free shipping and handling, for example, right

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Speaker 1: that could be early access to holiday sales. What I'm

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Speaker 1: learning in this space is having a token also gives

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Speaker 1: you access into this community. And it's really interesting to

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Speaker 1: think about how a token allows you access into a

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Speaker 1: curated dinner um with a hundred other people who are

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Speaker 1: interested in said brand that want to come together and

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Speaker 1: talk about specific industry. Right. So this idea of moving

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Speaker 1: from loyalty for more consumption now can become loyalty for

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Speaker 1: more content, loyalty for more experience, loyalty for more access,

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Speaker 1: loyalty for more like minded conversations ownership. So there's that

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Speaker 1: angle of it, and then the other one is the

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Speaker 1: transaction element. We've been tracking over the last few weeks.

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Speaker 1: The creation of the Constitution Dow. A number of people

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Speaker 1: got together and said, there is a copy of the

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Speaker 1: Constitution coming up for auction at South of Bees. We're

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Speaker 1: going to begin to crowdsource the funds to bid on

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Speaker 1: a copy of the U S Constitution one and twenty

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Speaker 1: and it created fractionalized ownership. So the spoiler is unfortunately

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Speaker 1: the Constitution Dow was outbid during this auction by a

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Speaker 1: single bitter, by a single bidder. But there's some amazing

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Speaker 1: statistics that came with this record number of money crowdfunded

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Speaker 1: uh in less than seventy two hours was over twenty

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Speaker 1: million dollars. I read on the Constitution Dow Twitter. They

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Speaker 1: had seventeen thousand, four d and thirty seven donors, with

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Speaker 1: the median donation size of two hundred and six dollars

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Speaker 1: six cents, with a significant percentage of these donations coming

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Speaker 1: from wallets that had been initialized for the first time.

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Speaker 1: This thing took off in a way that was fascinating

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Speaker 1: to watch, and despite the fact that they were outbid,

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Speaker 1: proof of concept in fractionalized ownership. Thinking about a future

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Speaker 1: where people are going to come together to buy things,

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Speaker 1: it's just fascinating to think about all of the different

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Speaker 1: things that this type of infrastructure can make possible totally.

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Speaker 1: And what I thought was the most exciting was that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't about a board ape, which I love board

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Speaker 1: eight yacht club. That's not it. But I think that

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Speaker 1: the world UM that's starting to learn about n f

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Speaker 1: t S and learning about taos, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: skepticism right around the money that's spent, the things that

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Speaker 1: are being created, digital art, etcetera, etcetera. And for the

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Speaker 1: first time, I think that we saw a major historical

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Speaker 1: coveted artif act that people got around UM not only

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Speaker 1: with their dollars and their wallets, they got around in philosophy.

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Speaker 1: It made sense. And here's the thing. The thing that's

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Speaker 1: different about the DOW is that it says also says

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Speaker 1: as much about your identity and your belief system, what

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Speaker 1: you do and who you are as much as you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe the board ape you buy or the bio you

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Speaker 1: have for yourself and the work that you do, well,

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Speaker 1: your wallet becomes your bio right and there you go,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty crazy. Like if you start to think

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Speaker 1: about what you buy, what you invest in, and the

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Speaker 1: taos or the communities that you belong to that starts

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Speaker 1: making up an identity for you. Um that is maybe

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Speaker 1: more meaningful than your identity on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, cetera. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's because what you're actually investing in. It's about where

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Speaker 1: you're putting your wallet. And with that, we'll be right

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Speaker 1: back all right at Landia. We are back with our

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Speaker 1: partners that yield Mo, and this mini series we take

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Speaker 1: on how contextual targeting is being reimagined as brands make

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Speaker 1: every interaction with their consumer meaningful. Welcome Lisa Bradner, GM

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Speaker 1: of Data and Analytics from yield Mo. Thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: great to be back. Always great to talk to you guys, Lisa.

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Speaker 1: Every brand, every marketer is chasing the customer and the

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Speaker 1: consumer what they want, and brands really need to have

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Speaker 1: a perspective on where they show up, how they show up,

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Speaker 1: and what those consumers need. And I think it really

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Speaker 1: changes how marketers actually process and move through not only

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Speaker 1: their marketing organizational structure, but maybe more importantly right now,

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Speaker 1: their marketing process. How does that change the role of

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Speaker 1: the marketer and really getting more closely aligned with the need,

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Speaker 1: like a specific need of the consumer. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I would say I would argue we've swung too far

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Speaker 1: to sort of this insecure running after our customers hoping

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Speaker 1: they'll pay attention to us, as opposed to going back

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Speaker 1: to the brand d n A and saying, who am I,

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Speaker 1: what do I stand for? How do I show up?

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Speaker 1: What do I offer? And what cultural moments do I

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Speaker 1: belong in and building from there. So it's a mix, right,

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Speaker 1: It's it's what cultural moments are important to my consumers,

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Speaker 1: but what cultural moments are important to my consumers that

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Speaker 1: also fit for me. It's really closer to product management

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Speaker 1: in the sense of, yes, sure you do research and

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Speaker 1: you know what the market needs, and you understand what

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Speaker 1: competitors are offering, and you know what people are looking for.

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Speaker 1: But you've got a really clear brand value proposition and

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Speaker 1: you're clear where that belongs and where that doesn't, and

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Speaker 1: you're willing to sacrifice some of the you know, constant

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Speaker 1: running to have bigger impact in key moments. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that's part of it too, that sure, there's

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Speaker 1: an always on strategy and the media will always have

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Speaker 1: a level of always on, but that you're really thinking

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Speaker 1: about the cultural moments or the seasonal moments or the

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Speaker 1: audience moments where you need to be there and how

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Speaker 1: you show up there, and you're crafting and experience around

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Speaker 1: that that your media and creative partners are helping you

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Speaker 1: build soup nuts. I wish more media buyers, creative directors,

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Speaker 1: chief creative officers would actually think of themselves and by

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Speaker 1: the way, cmos would think of themselves as product marketers

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Speaker 1: in the way you're talking about, because it actually upends

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Speaker 1: the way you start to think about your media. It

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Speaker 1: starts to become a playground where you can get so

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Speaker 1: close to the consumer in visa V and text and

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Speaker 1: visa VI really testing those different signals. Um that it

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Speaker 1: actually just changes the whole kind of role of a

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Speaker 1: media person, a media buyer or or a creative Well,

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Speaker 1: and you just said something really important, right, the testing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's keep building on the product analogy. Right,

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Speaker 1: here's a prototype, here's an m v P. Let's put

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Speaker 1: it out, Let's let's see how people react to it.

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Speaker 1: Let's pull it back, maybe tweak it a little more.

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Speaker 1: Now we're ready for our big launch. But this notion,

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Speaker 1: and you know what it is, it's rooted in sort

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Speaker 1: of twentieth century TV campaigns. We have the campaign tadah

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Speaker 1: um versus real time data, analytics and learning that can

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Speaker 1: let us constantly iterate and get smart. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: thinking like a direct marketer, but not in the way

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Speaker 1: that we think of that sort of brand and performance line.

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Speaker 1: Is it performing from brand metrics, Is it performing from

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Speaker 1: sales metrics? Is it performing from long term brand health metri?

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Speaker 1: Is it performing in terms of next step of sales happening?

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Speaker 1: And everybody in your organization, brand or demand needs to

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Speaker 1: be incentive across all of those kpi s, so they're

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Speaker 1: working together. How does this then potentially bring brand and

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Speaker 1: direct response closer together? A few years ago we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it. You know, when you think like this, it

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Speaker 1: completely collapses the funnel. Is that what you're saying, and

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Speaker 1: and how do you think about that and really guide

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Speaker 1: your clients into um kind of that test and learned

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Speaker 1: mindset collapse the funnel. I totally understand why people use

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Speaker 1: that firm, but I think it's potentially dangerous because then

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Speaker 1: the temptation is to turn every single add into a

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Speaker 1: direct response add right, or try to cram that call

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Speaker 1: to action in your brand campaign. I think that the

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Speaker 1: real time nature of data and putting a dr message

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Speaker 1: in a brand message out in the same place and

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Speaker 1: testing and seeing which one people engaging with, which one's

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Speaker 1: working for you, which one is getting the next thing

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Speaker 1: to happen. And you know, constantly running your brand health

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Speaker 1: metrics so you make sure you're not undercutting your brands

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Speaker 1: to drive sales, Constantly running your sales metrics and making

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Speaker 1: sure that you're getting getting the sales numbers you need.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's more subtle in the sense of understanding

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Speaker 1: what each medium is best at, but then testing that

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Speaker 1: hypothesis constantly. Um, so you're testing like a direct marketer.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean everything is a direct marketing message.

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Speaker 1: So Lisa, three things just to recap this conversation that

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Speaker 1: marketers need in their contextual toolbox, connecting media and creativity,

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Speaker 1: finding moments of serendipity, and common sense. How is yield

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Speaker 1: MO helping advertisers achieve one, two, or all three of

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Speaker 1: those things to get started on the roadmap to contextual reimagined. Absolutely, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know the easiest way to get started is to

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Speaker 1: start now. And I think the common sense part of

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Speaker 1: this is starting to test and learn the reimagining context

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Speaker 1: rule and what that means. We have pre curated deals

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Speaker 1: that can be bought through your your trading desk and

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Speaker 1: can quickly be executed, So you can start to get

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Speaker 1: that data, you can start getting reporting, you can start

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Speaker 1: to understand how we're reimagining context rule the signals that

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Speaker 1: are available, and you can start imagining for your own

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Speaker 1: company all the ways that those signals could be used

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Speaker 1: to guide your marketing effort. You know, that's just one

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Speaker 1: of many ways to start. I love to talk to

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Speaker 1: about dynamic content a bunch of other things, but let's

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Speaker 1: start there. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much to you and the team at

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Speaker 1: yield Mo for this conversation and for supporting Atlantia. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for having me. It's always fun. M

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Speaker 1: Welcome back at Lantia. We have a good friend and

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Speaker 1: a third time at Landia guest, Jared Dicker, the general

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Speaker 1: Partner at Cherning Group BCG. Welcome back, Jared. Hello, great

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Speaker 1: to be here. So Jared, you have had this unlikely,

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Speaker 1: very nonlinear career. You started at out as a journalist,

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Speaker 1: You ran technology UH and the whole innovation advertising group

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Speaker 1: at Washington Post. You went over to be the founding

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Speaker 1: CEO of poet, a block chain startup that was looking

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Speaker 1: at how decentralization and journalism and blockchain was going to work.

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Speaker 1: And now now you're leading the crypto practice for the

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Speaker 1: Churning Group. How did you get here? It's um uh?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do I describe? I like very much

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Speaker 1: accidentally have fallen into all of these different jobs that

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Speaker 1: have been extremely fun. Um. You know, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: I started as a music journalist. I'm a I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge music head, and you know, it was pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that that was going to be my life. And accidentally

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Speaker 1: got a job at the Hufbon and Post off Craigslist

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Speaker 1: and found, you know, found it so exciting to be

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Speaker 1: building that's a new fact. I didn't know it was Craigslist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and and like this wasn't even too long ago.

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Speaker 1: Like I worked at the Huffing and Post in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and ten, two thousen so um people were still

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Speaker 1: I guess looking for jobs off Craigslist then, or I

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Speaker 1: just didn't know what I was doing. But I ended

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Speaker 1: up at the Huffing and Post and really just started

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Speaker 1: to fall in love with the business side of media.

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Speaker 1: Found that it was a pretty low bar, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many of the people who listened to this show listened

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Speaker 1: to the show in order to be inspired and kind

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Speaker 1: of think about how to lift that bar. And I

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Speaker 1: just found that to be a very like liberating, amazing experience,

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Speaker 1: so stayed in media for a while. UM My venture

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Speaker 1: into blockchain the first time was really a result of

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Speaker 1: kind of things that I was seeing in the media business.

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Speaker 1: Um you know, very obvious ones like big news and

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Speaker 1: deep bigs, but even more so, like the sentiment that

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Speaker 1: many media companies have, which is their content is valuable,

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Speaker 1: they invest talent, it's better than their competitors. But when

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Speaker 1: you looked at the um all the business models that

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Speaker 1: reward that content, it's all effectively the same. Like a

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Speaker 1: three million dollar investigative journalism piece from the New York

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Speaker 1: Times could render the same financial results as a buzz feed,

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Speaker 1: you know, viralistical article, even though so much money was

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Speaker 1: put into one and barely any investment was going into

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Speaker 1: the other. So that was kind of the main um

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Speaker 1: patalyst for me wanting to get into blockchain. The technology was, well,

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Speaker 1: what if all digital content starts to go on chain?

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Speaker 1: And what are really cool things that we can do

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Speaker 1: both in terms of leveraging provenance but also ownership and

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Speaker 1: control to kind of put more value on creative works

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Speaker 1: way too early, UM, but really kind of got me, UM,

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Speaker 1: got me obsessed with this space. And now you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been at Turning Group for about five six months. UM.

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Speaker 1: I get to work with all of these founders that

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Speaker 1: are now building you know, many of what you're building

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Speaker 1: on that vision or aligned with that vision that you know,

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Speaker 1: poet poet like originally seeked out to to solve. And

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Speaker 1: it's been absolutely phenomenal. And I'm I like love people

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Speaker 1: and love hanging out with people, and I'm extremely eight peeks.

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Speaker 1: So there's no better job for me than to work

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Speaker 1: with a million companies at once, So, Jared, so much

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Speaker 1: of the hype, intrigue, and interest around Web three is

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Speaker 1: seemingly coming at us from all angles, very very heavy

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Speaker 1: in Twitter and following, certainly your Twitter handle, which if

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Speaker 1: you're not following at Jared Dicker. There's so much Web

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Speaker 1: two to Web three insight knowledge being dropped. But let's

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Speaker 1: go to the one oh one Can you take us too?

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Speaker 1: And its most simplistic form, the definition or at least

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Speaker 1: the fundamental principles of Web three. What do we need

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Speaker 1: to abandon or or build from in Web two to

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Speaker 1: really understand the power and impact of Web three. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So one thing I'll start with, since this is at

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Speaker 1: Landia and there's a lot of marketers that listen to this,

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Speaker 1: is that I think I think we're hearing a lot

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Speaker 1: more about web free because it is such a better

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Speaker 1: brand and name to market than crypto and blockchain for

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Speaker 1: the masses. You know, Web three has been a term

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Speaker 1: that's been thrown around, and there's you know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: some people that argue that we're we're not in Web three,

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Speaker 1: We're in Web four, you know, blah blah blah. But

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Speaker 1: like putting that all aside, I think Web three as

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Speaker 1: a um, as a description and as a marketing term

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Speaker 1: to describe what's happening as really stuck. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of become a bit obvious when people are

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Speaker 1: looking at differentiation and the evolution of how we're moving

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Speaker 1: from you know, social mobile web into blockchain has been

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Speaker 1: something that's really stock. So I think that that's been

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Speaker 1: a great marketing victory UM and one that I've been

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Speaker 1: leveraging and leading on very heavily as well. UM. The

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Speaker 1: ways that kind of like there's a bunch of different

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Speaker 1: directions really think about Web three, but the biggest I

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Speaker 1: think is um this bottoms up approach versus top down approach.

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Speaker 1: So when you think about media, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: great way to UM kind of really visualize this is

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Speaker 1: that you know, media for the past five years on

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Speaker 1: the Internet has been really top down, right, it's the

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Speaker 1: brand and you know, the brand owned distribution at one point,

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Speaker 1: you know, helps manage the audience, provides content and programming

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Speaker 1: that keeps people engaged, UM. But the relationship with the

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Speaker 1: consumer or the reader or the user UM is very

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Speaker 1: transactional and kind of one side. It's like you either

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Speaker 1: pay for content with money through a subscription and you

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Speaker 1: get access to it and it kind of ends there.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, you get content for free by means

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Speaker 1: of attention and advertising and the content is there, but

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Speaker 1: there's really been like no strong benefit for uh, the

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Speaker 1: individual consumer and reader beyond the programming and content itself.

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Speaker 1: And that's because of this top down approach. And Web

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Speaker 1: three is really leaning it on this bottom stuff approach.

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Speaker 1: So a great way to really kind of visualize this

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Speaker 1: as well is UM if you write for sub stack

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Speaker 1: In Web two, you're writing on a platform. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have a newsletter, Uh, you are um making money,

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Speaker 1: you know, or driving subscriptions off of your newsletter. So

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Speaker 1: Jared Dicker has a newsletter, He's making money off it.

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Speaker 1: You know. I'm like, I kind of want substack to succeed,

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Speaker 1: but I'm pretty indifferent, right because I'm not really incentivized.

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Speaker 1: Like if substack doesn't exist tomorrow, I can move my

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Speaker 1: blog over to you know, mirror or or medium or

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Speaker 1: other types of platforms. I'm like, okay, if other readers

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Speaker 1: are competitors, succeed, but again, like that's really not an

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Speaker 1: incentive that I have. I'm more interested, you know, if

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Speaker 1: my newsletter does well. And with Web three and bottoms up,

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Speaker 1: you effectively are incentivized to do all three. Right, You

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Speaker 1: as publisher want to make money and drive value off

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Speaker 1: of your work. Because of the way that token mechanics work,

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Speaker 1: you effectively have equity in that platform. So not only

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Speaker 1: are you making money and driving value out of your work,

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Speaker 1: but if the platform succeeds, you succeed as well. And

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Speaker 1: you're kind of rooting for all other writers and contributors

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Speaker 1: to be successful too, because that makes the platform more successful.

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Speaker 1: So it's a way more bottoms up collective kind of

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Speaker 1: holistic approach. And UM, what I'd say is like, I

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Speaker 1: don't think Web two and Web three is binary, and

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Speaker 1: we could go deeper on this, like I think there's

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's areas of opportunity for both sides.

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Speaker 1: But the way I would think about web free is

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Speaker 1: a completely new evolution, new business models, new ways of

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Speaker 1: working together and coordinating, um, and really kind of an

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Speaker 1: unlocked from what we've traditionally been locked into, especially on

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Speaker 1: the media side, which has been advertising and subscriptions. What

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Speaker 1: pushed this frenzy around n f t S and as

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Speaker 1: you're going into it, practicality of how that's going to expand, shape, grow, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: So I think very quite simply like you could just

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Speaker 1: think of n f t S as bringing digital ownership

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Speaker 1: to the Internet. Um. You know, in all of its

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Speaker 1: existence of the Internet, UM, we have presumed that anything

430
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: published or put online can easily be replicated, mimicked, stolen,

431
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: and we built entire businesses around that, right, like Napster

432
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: basically deconstructed music and then we built music again back

433
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: up through Spotify, an Apple and SoundCloud. Et cetera. Um,

434
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: we saw it in digital media, right, Like you know,

435
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: the whole entire business of the Huffing and Post was

436
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: around paraphrasing New York Times articles but winning in search

437
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: and social because we wanted we if we got more traffic,

438
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: we would drive more revenue through advertising. So the whole

439
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: kind of ethos of the Internet was that nothing that

440
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: was really done digitally to be probably owned. Thus we

441
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: built no business models around that. And the main disruptor

442
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: with n f t S is that, for the first

443
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: time ever, digital ownership has probably come to the Internet,

444
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: and um, you know that's that's a massive impact that

445
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: can't be overstated, but I think is very underappreciated and

446
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: not yet understood because we've just been trained and have

447
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: worked and have you know, engaged on a web where

448
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: that just has never been the case. So the main,

449
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: the main thing to know with n f t S

450
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: is that it is a function and digital ownership. I

451
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: think people focus on what's transacting on openca and looking

452
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: at JPEG's and digital art and they start to think

453
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: about n f t S in this very macro vision,

454
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: which is like everything needs to be a hundred thousand

455
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: dollars or everything's collectible or everything's tradeable UM. But it's

456
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: really important to not think about n f t s

457
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: as a product. You really have to think of NTS

458
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: as a process, which is, you know, when you put

459
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: something online, you want to be able to prove ownership

460
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: UM and provenance of that sort of information. So right

461
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: now we're seeing that happen in digital art UM. We're

462
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: seeing a massive kind of acceleration towards music. But my

463
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: my point of view is that every single piece of

464
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: content or i P or information that goes on the

465
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: Internet will start as an n f t and and

466
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: we're going to very quickly enter a world where every

467
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: single thing is an n f t UM. You know,

468
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: everyone is going to be able to seek prominance of

469
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: information who created what. It really opens up like massive

470
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: opportunities throughout a variety of industries. I mean, one of

471
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: which is ticketing. Right Like if all tickets were n

472
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: f t s, UM a lot of like league owners.

473
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: Let's say you know, the owner, the owner of the

474
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: New York Giants UM sells primary tickets and then in

475
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: the secondary market when they go on StubHub, they you know,

476
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: see no value return of that right, The fans who

477
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 1: buy the tickets could resell them, resell them, resell them,

478
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: resell them, and the owners, you know, get no benefits

479
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: there if tickets become an en T. That's a really

480
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: good example, by the way, Yeah, because if tickets become

481
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: an n f T, all the like royalties are programmable

482
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: through smart contracts. So if you issue a ticket as

483
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: an n f T, you say, you know, primary sales

484
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: are a hundred dollars and all subsequent secondary sales ten

485
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: percent goes back to the owner. And that happens completely programmably,

486
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Like there doesn't need to be a human intermediary. It's

487
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: just every time that ticket is resold and goes from

488
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: a wallet to another wallet, ten percent goes back to

489
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: the owner. So now you live in a world where owners, right,

490
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: or artists or whomever right, Like it could be musicians

491
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: who are selling tickets. They don't just benefit from secondary markets,

492
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: but now they encourage it. Right. The idea of StubHub

493
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: is actually fascinating, and um there is there's like some

494
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: conversations happening where you know, eventually secondary markets may be

495
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: more lucrative or artists or owners or you know, people

496
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: that work in creative entertainment type businesses or secondary just

497
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: is a lot more lucrative than primary. What I think

498
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: it's also important to think about, like as I mentioned,

499
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: Web two two, Web three is kind of evolutionary um

500
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: and Chris Dixon has a great point about things being skew.

501
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: More pick is that we're kind of in that phase

502
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: of blockchain, which was very similar to when we went

503
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: from linear and print to the web to mobile, where

504
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, until it becomes very obvious what's foundational and native.

505
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: Everybody has like a mobile strategy and a mobile website

506
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: and thinking about how to retrofit this new technology into

507
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: their existing models, and then all of a sudden, right

508
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: the app store comes out and it's a holy ship

509
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: moment where oh, this is what mobile is, and this

510
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: is how mobile native things are built, and you know,

511
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: like that kind of really sparks and becomes obvious to

512
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: the masses what this new industry is. In blockchain, we

513
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: are in that intermediary phase where there's a lot of

514
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: companies thinking about their blockchain strategy or how they can

515
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: leverage it with their existing business, or what their blockchain

516
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: angle is going to be, and all of a sudden,

517
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: something's going to happen rather quickly. That is very blockchain

518
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: foundational and obvious where we're going to see, right, the

519
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: blockchain native companies start to rise and be pure Web three,

520
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: and it's just going to become very obvious that we're

521
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: in this next space. So I'd be careful to like

522
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: focus too much on how blockchain works for your existing

523
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: business and pay more attention to, you know, the things

524
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 1: that are truly decentralized in the Web three that are

525
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: going to become foundational and lead us in this next half. Yes,

526
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: what are you creating new and who are you creating with?

527
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: I think is the way I think about it and

528
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: process right, and it is a whole new process. So Jared,

529
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: I want to I want to break down a couple

530
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: of things because for a lot of our listeners, their marketers,

531
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: their marketing leaders breakdown Providence. It's actually so I was

532
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: an art student and Providence came from art, right, So

533
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: the way you knew who created a work and then

534
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: who owned that work was Providence. There was a date,

535
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: a history of that ownership passed down quite literally on paper,

536
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: and the value of that particular asset, and so talk

537
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: about why Providence. You've said it a few times in

538
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: the conversation, is so critical to the idea, the process

539
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: of blockchain of web three. And then what I also

540
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: think is under talked about, especially in on the marketing side,

541
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: a smart contract. Mm hmmm, yeah, so on the provident

542
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: side of things. I mean, I think like this is

543
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: again blockchains. You know, the biggest core value you know,

544
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: being being you know, effectively an immutable database is that

545
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: you are able to kind of see where information derives

546
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: from um and then you could effectively build things on

547
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: top of that. So UM I said before that I believe,

548
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to think about n f T

549
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: is not just as a product, but as a process.

550
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: And no, and that all digital content is going to

551
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: be an n f team means that every single like

552
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: inception of an idea or i P frankly, whenever it's

553
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 1: published to something M is going to store all the

554
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: information of who created it, you know, who were the collaborators,

555
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: who purchased it, what hands it exchange And you could

556
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: really kind of drill that down and you know to

557
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: the point that you were making with art. And I

558
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: think while we're seeing so much um, so much adoption

559
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: and excitement happening in the digital art world is because

560
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: it is carrying that ethos over right. You can see, um,

561
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: get artists from original creators. You know, that value is

562
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: perceived and purchased, and then you could see like a

563
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: lot of people find value in purchasing something that might

564
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: have been owned by you know, Alexa Christian previously, like

565
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: there's there's a value apprual that is built on top

566
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: of this sort of providence and blockchain you know, really

567
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: kind of opens and enables that. Um. What I loved

568
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: about it in the early IT days was, you know,

569
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: and this was like a time work. Fake news was

570
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: really you know, the topic to sure was that, you know,

571
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: there could be a world where you're going through your

572
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: Facebook news feed and you see a video of Obama

573
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: speaking and it may look like Obama and sound like

574
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: Obama and have the CNN logo. Um, but it might not.

575
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: It might be a deep fake. It might have been

576
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: created by someone else, you know, maybe false information. And

577
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: I believe that there's going to be more value brought

578
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: to the Internet by being able to kind of expose

579
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: and bring that information up. So the main kind of

580
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: ethos of that is that you are able to kind

581
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: of like build a supply chain around everything that is

582
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 1: happening and you're able to kind of track it down

583
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: to its inception, which you know is great information and

584
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: data to have, but also so important when it comes

585
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: to perceive value and ability to transact and and um

586
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: kind of better understand like purchased a good and truth. Yeah,

587
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: I mean it gets pretty heavy in terms of truth

588
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: and verifying truth yeah, um, which is I think pretty exciting,

589
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: especially when you go back to the fake news, which

590
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: I don't think we're out of. Yeah, And like smart contracts,

591
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, just quickly go hand in hand. It's like

592
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 1: if you're if all information is going to be put

593
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: on chain, then you want to be able to programmably

594
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: set the rules of operations of how that's going to work,

595
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: so you know the price of it being purchased, you

596
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: know what secondary markets set up start to look like

597
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: we're really trying to figure out how you build more

598
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: efficiency in that. And that's kind of goes the whole

599
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: ethos of kind of the ownership economy, right. It's like

600
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: we are we are for the first time, like able

601
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: to prove ownership digitally on digital content on the Internet.

602
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating is that, Yes, we're like seeing all

603
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: of these new platforms and crypto native opportunities emerge that

604
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: are built off of that. But think about how much

605
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: we have to rethink how we've structured our businesses on

606
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: the Internet for the past twenty years. Right, we assume

607
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: that digital ownership wasn't possible because it wasn't and now

608
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: all of a sudden its So I think we're going

609
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: to see a lot of existing like industries and businesses

610
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: really start to rethink, like one, how this affects them

611
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: and to what the opportunity could possibly be for them

612
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: to build better businesses because for most of them, um,

613
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, the Internet was highly disruptive for a lot

614
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: of these legacy businesses, whether it was like newspapers, record labels,

615
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: um or broadcast stations, and pre Internet was really an

616
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: error where they owned everything. They didn't just like own

617
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: the assets, but they own their audience, they own distribution,

618
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: and you know, this idea of digital ownership could bring

619
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: a lot of that back. So I think it's interesting

620
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: to look at both sides of the coin and brands

621
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: have had to keep pace with that. I think a

622
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: lot of marketing teams cmos are thinking about how does

623
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: this impact my communication strategy, How does this impact my

624
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: marketing plan? How does this impact what I'm buying, How

625
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm buying, where I'm buying, why I'm buying. What would

626
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: your advice be, two brands, because to me, this isn't

627
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: a should I. This is a matter of when I

628
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: and what's the process brands have to go through to

629
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: adapt to what will become the next iteration of the web,

630
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean the whole i E conversation and what's happening

631
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: in this space with kind of n f T s

632
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: and and and p fps which are kind of the

633
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: profile pictures, the board at clubs, the crypto punks, the

634
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: ones that are kind of umm becoming people's identity. Is

635
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: that I p starting to become compossible, which is fascinating.

636
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: So a lot of these major n f T projects,

637
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, namely board Apiacht Club. Um they've sold ten

638
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: thousand apes and if you purchase one of these apes,

639
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: you have full commercial rights to do whatever you want

640
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: with that ape. So um they have, like the creators

641
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: of board apes, like make money off the first purchase

642
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: and make money off all subsequent purchases. However, if you

643
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: buy that ape. You could use that for whatever you want.

644
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: You can build t shirts, you can sell them, you

645
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: can leverage their likeness. Um. A friend of mine built

646
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: a character out of his board a called Jenkins the valet. Um.

647
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: There their their literary writers. Um, they built this entire character,

648
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, wrote this entire story and created this narrative

649
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: around this ape who was the valet at the board

650
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: a yacht club and all the things that he sees

651
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: and experiences, and uh, it got massive. You started selling merch,

652
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, physical merch, digital merchant. Now he's signed the

653
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: cia UM to do a book deal and as a

654
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: huge following on Discord I follow Yeah, a massive following

655
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: on Discord. But it's like it would be a situation

656
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: where like Disney would create a new movie and effectively say, well,

657
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: any of the fans who purchase or part of the

658
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: community could go and build on top of that I

659
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: P and monetize. Right. So it's a completely new way

660
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: of thinking about I P UM and the compossibility of

661
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 1: i P which effectively is like i P is put

662
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: into you know, into the ether, and then other people

663
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: could build on top of it as they please. But

664
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: that's a major shift, um and I think it's a

665
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: shift that a lot of brands need to think about

666
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: because there's definitely a lot of benefit to enable that,

667
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: to open that up, to get people more deeply engaged,

668
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: to have more affinity with brands, um you know, but

669
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: arguably like isn't going to work everywhere, Like you're not

670
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: going to see Marvel or Disney or others kind of

671
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: brushed to that too quickly. Um. So that's a big

672
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: thing that I think is like worth everyone who's listening

673
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: to this spending their time on like really kind of

674
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: seeing all of them building of IP and leverage of

675
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: IP that's happening in the n f T world, and

676
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: that is because of just how the business model and

677
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: structure is set up. You have to be very authentic

678
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: in this space. Uh. I think I think you could

679
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: probably say that for everything, like for every um you know,

680
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: big marketing trend or you know. The way the way

681
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: I've been saying and now is like once it makes

682
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: the like digital or ad week or ad age um

683
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: like things, things, things start to bubble up. And I

684
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: think it's very important in this space to remain authentic

685
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: if you want to reach the right audience and you know,

686
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: be perceived well and bring the most value because this space,

687
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: more than any is just very tribal. Right, people have

688
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,959
Speaker 1: to build reputation like both like socially but like quite

689
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: literally on chain, Like everything you do with your cryptoolities

690
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: is like reported. So like you know, people people build reputation. Um,

691
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: you have to like be in and spend time and

692
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: spend energy like really kind of showing value. And I

693
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: think you know, brands that may try to come in

694
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: and do an n f T drop um, you know,

695
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: could often come across as like an authentic So I

696
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: think there needs to be a lot of time really

697
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: put in and thought about how how brands play, where

698
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,439
Speaker 1: they play, what that value actually is. Because I think

699
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: for most, at least at this time, since it's early,

700
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: it's better for them to stay out of it than

701
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: for them to just artificially be in it. Here's what

702
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: I think it's really exciting. I actually think for the

703
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: true brand strategist, right, and that's not just marketing, that's

704
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: looking at the brand, the business, the business models, those

705
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: types of things. For the true brand strategist, this is

706
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: an incredibly exciting time. So it's not just about associating

707
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: your brand and your product right and thinking about how

708
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: does it live in this new world. It's really about

709
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: how to extend that brand ethos and purpose and philosophy

710
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: right into all new spaces and places. That to me,

711
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: when you say authenticity, that's what I think about, and

712
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: that it's like almost the possibility in my mind. Why

713
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: I get so excited when you were talking to you

714
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: see me like bouncing. Why I get so excited is

715
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: because for the true kind of business minded marketer and strategist,

716
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: this is kind of a turn almost to a classic

717
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: era of marketing that actually drives new marketplace value. And

718
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about your brand like that, if you're

719
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: thinking about your infrastructure like that, you will win Alexa.

720
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 1: As you're saying that, I'm thinking about there's ten thousand

721
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: iterations of the board eight. There is only one iteration

722
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: of most legacy brand logos. You would never dream of

723
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: iterating on a logo that has been in the market

724
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: for over a hundred years, that that identity and the

725
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: equity that exists there. Thinking about breaking up one of

726
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: those logos into ten thousand pieces and then handing it

727
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: as too shareholders who can make it their own now

728
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: instead of having this one vertical identity. There are ten

729
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: thousand ways to move into new spaces and places that

730
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: all will come back to a central ethos, right, I

731
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: mean is that fair to say? Yeah? A way to

732
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: really just boil that down in one sentence is that

733
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: every single one of your customers becomes a paid influencer, right, So,

734
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: like right now, like I'm drinking like a spin drift,

735
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: and I have an iPhone and you know these are

736
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: like utilities and things I consume, but anyone who sees me,

737
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: I'm effectively marketing their products for them, right, But right

738
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: now I don't get any benefit out of that. Um

739
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: And of course, like you know, there's an argument that

740
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: I should, right, And that's not the way it's set

741
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 1: up in Web three. It's different right in Web three,

742
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: because you are both, like I wrote a piece called

743
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: wise subscribe when you can invest, right, you're effectively a

744
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: consumer and a shareholder of that brand. Right. You are

745
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: thus incentivized right to to promote it, to be a

746
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: part of it. So if you're building native Web three,

747
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: you know you are really thinking about each of your

748
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: customers as like an influencer. You know, a subscriber as

749
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: someone who shares mutually beneficial value and tries to push

750
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: the brands. And that's how you really kind of need

751
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: to set things up. That's also why right the the

752
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: authenticity is so important because I do believe that in

753
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: Web three, the biggest opportunity today, right is in the

754
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: active consumer. I think like the biggest things that we're

755
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: seeing unlocked, at least from an investment perspective, And what

756
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: I'm looking at is this notion of seven consumer, so

757
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: people being able to participate and engage around the clock, right,

758
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: not limited on time. Um, we kind of saw that

759
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: unlock with point base right point based basically said you

760
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: don't have to trade markets between not like nine and five,

761
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: and not over the weekends, because that's when it opened

762
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: into encloses. You trade on your time, and there's you know,

763
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: we're seeing that across a variety of industries, Like we

764
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: invested in a company called z dot Run, which is

765
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: a virtual horse racing game where people purchase horses right

766
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: as n f T s. They could breathe them, they

767
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: could raise them, and then they could earn value and

768
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: upside right if their horse places whenever they want. You

769
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: don't have to purchase the physical horse. You don't have

770
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: to go to the derby. You know, you're not constricted

771
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 1: by physical limitations. And on the other side, right, it's

772
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: like this idea of like ownership, like ownership is massive

773
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: and it is unlocking a ton of different things. So

774
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: it is it is foundationally something that is completely new

775
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: UM and you know that is going to take a

776
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: lot of like infrastructure focus and the architecture of how

777
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: things currently exist in order to get comfortable doing that,

778
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: which is why I believe like a lot of these

779
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: things are going to happen natively in blockchain first before

780
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: they're really going to happen in more legacy environments. Some

781
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,959
Speaker 1: of the things you're saying. And also this idea makes

782
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: me think so much of bology, Sir ronson um inheriting

783
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: versus founding, and it is everyone should read it. It

784
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: is brilliant and it is right. And we've been in

785
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: this kind of um inheritance world and I want to

786
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: this is all jump us into media. You know, if

787
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: you think about all the major media at companies in

788
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: the world, they've been inherited literally passed down from families, right,

789
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: and you think about that, and now web three is

790
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: this opportunity and blockchain has created this opportunity that to

791
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: your point, if you are a practitioner, if you like

792
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: really learn the technology, really understanding get involved with the community,

793
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: then you become a practitioner. The idea and the potential

794
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: for partnership and founding. I think we're going to see

795
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: a completely kind of new twist. So that takes us too.

796
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: What is the future of media? Jared? Yeah, So, I um,

797
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: I mean you you head on a topic that will

798
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: segue nicely into this. I always believed for like years

799
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: that you know, the media business was somewhat evolutionary that

800
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: you know, we had advertising and subscriptions and you know,

801
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: all kind of innovations for new models kind of emerged

802
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: out of that. So you know, e commerce was effectively

803
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: a part of advertising, and you know, subscriptions kind of

804
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: moved through like membership type models. But basically we had

805
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: to foundational pillars that were built out of and Web

806
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: three is really kind of the first time, like in

807
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred years, that we've had a very

808
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: revolutionary type model and it kind of has to do

809
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: with we're seeing like a lot of people that are

810
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: building in media leveraging it right now. So the ability

811
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: to basically crowdfund your media business before it launches as

812
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: an n f T. So there's some companies that are like,

813
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to write about this topic. You know, this

814
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: is our editorial plan. We're going to do it for

815
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 1: six months. This is the amount that we need to raise.

816
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: Right In exchange, you get this n f T, which

817
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: gives you, you know, kind of like founder type relationships

818
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: with the media company itself. You may get social tokens

819
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: out of that that if you governance right, so you

820
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: can help us decide what we should cover, what topics

821
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,760
Speaker 1: are interesting, if there's treasury, what events we should do.

822
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 1: But really kind of like reinventing the idea of how

823
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: media companies need to be structured versus traditional VC or

824
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: advertising models or subscription models or billionaire buyers like and

825
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: what's amazing with that sort of structure is that your

826
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: readers are, you know, kind of foundational in the success

827
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: of your company. And it's kind of built up a

828
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: sentiment that I think we have today, right, Like I

829
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: subscribe to a lot of substacks. I subscribe to some

830
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: media UM and like at least like news media or

831
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: written media UM. For the most part, I'm doing it

832
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: right in in a somewhat altruistic way, like I may

833
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: read the content, but I may but I really like

834
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: the topic, and I want them to continue writing because

835
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: I think it's important. And I may want to support

836
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: the writer because they're my friends, and all of those

837
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: kind of feelings could completely be stronger if you know,

838
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 1: I moved over to feeling more like an investor because

839
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I want to do, right, Like

840
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: the content is cool, but I really believe in what

841
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: you're doing. I want to support you, and how can

842
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: I start to align incentives to do that. So that's

843
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: really where I think Web three revolutionizes media in a

844
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: very fantastic way. UM, where you know, you really have

845
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: this core group of people who effectively are baked in distribution,

846
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: right because they're incentivized to do so. They want to

847
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: share this content, um, they're hyper incentivized to engage, so

848
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: there's no like gimmix to get people to click or

849
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: to get people to spend time in the chat. Anyone

850
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: who spends time in these discords or these dows or

851
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: like sees the activity happening there because everyone is kind

852
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: of sharing the same purpose as opting in and seeking

853
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: and and and finding value and kind of what they're doing.

854
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like I always use the hufband

855
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: and Post example, right, because we kind of did this

856
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Um. The success of the hufband and

857
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: Post really wasn't about the content um going viral right

858
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: or winning search and social, which is very important. It

859
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: was about the comments section, if you remember, like so

860
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: many people would spend time there, they comment, they'd gauge

861
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: a conversation. We've built an intrinsic badging mechanism which basically,

862
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: the more you participated, the more you completed, the more

863
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: you unlocked. Maybe you were able to curate conversations or

864
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: be a leap moderator. Eventually, blog on the post and

865
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: crypto is that what three? Is that with extrinsic added

866
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: on as well, So not only is it valuable for

867
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: you socially, but now it can also be valuable for

868
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: you financially. And that changes the whole ethos. That kind

869
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: of how we think about this. And that's not going

870
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: to be possible for like you know, WAPO or Wall

871
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: Street Journal or buzz Feed or others to really do right.

872
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: They have their existing business and they'll probably leverage n

873
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: f T s and there'll be great things that they

874
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: could test and do there. But to really see the

875
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: revolutionized mechanisms that are going to happen, We're going to

876
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: see things happen more foundationally, and I think like we'll

877
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: see that, like the creator economy was a great bridge

878
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: to that because people were leaving aditional jobs. They're building

879
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: on their own, don't realize, hey, this is really hard. Um.

880
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: I want to find other like minded people to build with,

881
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: and they're gonna effectively build their own media companies that

882
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: I am very hopeful that they're going to build those

883
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: on top of platforms like Mirror and like you know,

884
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: these Web three type platforms that have built these functions

885
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: and mechanisms for them to do that. What happens to

886
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: CNNs and NBCs even more important? I look at Netflix.

887
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: Netflix is still a one pipe distribution. They own it,

888
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: they decide, right, they decide the content, the programming, they

889
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: own it, and they distribute it. Yeah. So my feelings here,

890
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: and I kind of said this before, is that I

891
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: feel Web three at this moment is really about the

892
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: active consumer. Um. I think the passive consumer platforms are

893
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: more powerful than ever and more valuable than ever. Like

894
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be very hard to disrupt Spotify,

895
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: where I get all the music in real time for

896
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: ten dollars. Netflix has the best programming. Um, you know,

897
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: when I consume Netflix kind of sitting back, I want

898
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: to be told what to watch. Um. Same with CNN.

899
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: So I think that there's a place, Like I said, like,

900
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's binary. I don't think Web three

901
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: needs to sweep through. That's why I do believe the biggest,

902
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: like the biggest like holy Ship moments are going to

903
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: come from foundationally Web three properties that show us how

904
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: these things you're done from the ground up, because I

905
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: do think, you know, like a great examples Twitter, I

906
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: think Web three conversation and crypto has made Twitter, a

907
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: web to centralized platform, more powerful than ever. Where people

908
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: are spending time, that's where the conversations are, That's where

909
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: people are putting their n f t s as their

910
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: profile pictures. So there's definitely a place. I think the

911
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: focus for Web three and the excitement for Web three

912
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 1: should be around the active consumer. How you can better

913
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: incentivize people to engage or do things. Thinking about both

914
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: the intrinsic social and extrinsic financial mechanics that crypto unlocks

915
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: and really try to see how those could you know,

916
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: better affect your business. As you're talking about the implication

917
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: stions for the media industry around subscription versus investing that transition,

918
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: I really don't see much of a difference on the

919
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: brand side either. On our last episode with MICHAELA. Solar March,

920
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: who was the former CMO of Tishman, we were talking

921
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: about dows and the idea of consumers coming in um

922
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: around brand, around spaces, around clubs, whatever the case is,

923
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: and actually having that level of ownership through investment. What

924
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I feel

925
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: like if you go to like my ethos that all

926
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: digital content will be n f T s, then like

927
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: the biggest opportunity I think for brands is, you know,

928
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: anything that they do physically should have something UM connected

929
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: to them digitally, right because now there's a lot of

930
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: value and perceived function on that. So, like I think,

931
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: like the fashion industry, you know, we're seeing like in

932
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: games like rollblocks or even you know more kind of

933
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: blockchain based games, people are paying a lot of money

934
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: for like assets, you know what they look like, um,

935
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: you know how they could use them within the functions

936
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: of how they work within kind of more virtual worlds.

937
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 1: I was going to say metaverse, but I promised myself

938
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say metavers on this and this on this thing.

939
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: But like I think, I think for brands like a

940
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: philosophical way and like very like you know, kind of

941
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: heavy way to think about it. Is this, right, we

942
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: we spend more time than ever online. Um, Like I

943
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: talk to probably hundreds of people a day online who

944
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: know me through my Twitter avatar or through my email

945
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: address or you know, through Instagram. Like, however, however I'm

946
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: communicating with them. Rarely anyone sees me physically, right besides

947
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: my family and maybe some when I meet for dinner.

948
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: And the whole movement of web three is more people

949
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: living online, right, Like how we make money online, you know,

950
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: how we spend our time. Time and identity and status

951
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: are massive unlocks and opportunities on the brand side for

952
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: what it looks like when we live online, Like I

953
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: wear this hat, I wear this shirt at tattoos. Right,

954
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: It's like, if more people see me online and I

955
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: care about my presence, then I'm going to want to

956
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: represent the brands that I love. Have the kind of

957
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: perceived you know, kind of notion and identity that I want.

958
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: And that's where I think brands really start to start

959
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: to really push on lock and the whip three, the

960
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: captis and you guys don't know the stat better. Like

961
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 1: the early days of e com, remember it was like, oh, women,

962
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: women like aren't spending money online? And now what like

963
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: I think they make up? But think about web three.

964
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: It's like, right now people are transacting with meta masks

965
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: wallets and they're buying things on open sea. But one

966
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: thing to note is like, and I don't have the

967
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: science behind this, but I am way more willing to

968
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: spend thousands of dollars out of my meta mask wallet

969
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: that I am to spend thousands of dollars out of

970
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 1: my actual wallet. Like just the functions we talked about us,

971
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: but the functions of being able to make that purchasing

972
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: decision and buy it because digital goods hold value is

973
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: a way easier decision for marketers to think about then

974
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: be actually like spending money out of my pocket. Um.

975
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: But the second thing is is that right now it's

976
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: it's mostly dues, right, and if blockchain and this sort

977
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: of way to transact and digital ownership is basically going

978
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: to be taking over e commerce. Think about the opportunity

979
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: for brands and all of these companies that are going

980
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: to bring in those audiences, and that should be where

981
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 1: the focus is. The focus should be like how do

982
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: I bring everything that I do and the value that

983
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: is perceived on me physically digitally because now I have

984
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: the functions to do it, and how do I bring

985
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: my customers for that ride? And I think there will

986
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: be a massive opportunity there. Chris Dixon was just on

987
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: Tim Ferris. It was actually it was a great to do.

988
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: Listen to that podcast. It was great, it was fantastic.

989
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: And one of the things Christic since that was he

990
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: was like, point based didn't need marketing, doesn't need marketing.

991
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: Coin Based now has a CMO, but whatever, Right, this

992
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: person didn't need marketing. This person didn't need marketing because

993
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: their fans and members are also owners and those people

994
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: and this is what you're going back to, Like the influencer, right,

995
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: It puts so much more meaning around the influencer. Those

996
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: people are doing the marketing. Naturally, they're incentivized to do

997
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: the marketing. But I think what's really interesting for marketers

998
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: and to your point about like brands getting involved in

999
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,959
Speaker 1: this and looking for the right partners and those types

1000
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: of things is like, in a bit, it's kind of like, also,

1001
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: look no further right than your best customer, and how

1002
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: are you working with them, How are you leveraging them,

1003
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: how are you investing in them versus what they're buying

1004
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: from you? The marketing teams now need to be thinking

1005
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: about thousand residents totally. I think that's the great idea.

1006
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that and and and this already exists, right,

1007
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: these brands and marketers and whatever. Companies just have to

1008
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: like send an internal note and asking like I get

1009
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, tons of d ms a day from people

1010
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: that work in agencies or media companies or elsewhere that

1011
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, um wanted like are fascinated with this space,

1012
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: like people people at Washington Post. I had a group

1013
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,959
Speaker 1: of like fifteen people who were into crypto, who deeply

1014
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: understood the space. Who were you know, frankly like expert consumers.

1015
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: And the way the way to really go about it

1016
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,479
Speaker 1: if you're one of these larger companies and you're trying

1017
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: to figure out what's going on, is one ask who's involved,

1018
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: Like talk to people within your organization. Guarantee there's many

1019
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: of them that are buying n f t s that

1020
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: are in the discord, groups that contribute to dows Um,

1021
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: that are building again, like I said earlier, reputation around

1022
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: their work and making the connections and figure out how

1023
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: to pull those people up. It's kind of like and

1024
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: this is like so like philosophically sound for dows right,

1025
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: Like why I love dallos Um for like many sorts

1026
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: of reasons, one of which is like, you aren't like

1027
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: categorizing value and talent based on a hierarchy, Like anyone

1028
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: who's worked in a large company knows that, like the

1029
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: sea level makes the decision there acratic hierarchy exactly and

1030
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: DAWs effectively like break up that hierarchy. Everyone could contribute,

1031
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: could share ideas. You know, everything is pretty much like

1032
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: discussed and you know what kind of brought to a

1033
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: vote in terms of governance, but it really kind of

1034
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: breaks down that structure. And you could argue right that

1035
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: there is a ton of value lost in companies being

1036
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: structured this way. I don't think like all companies should

1037
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: be dallas Um by any means, but I think there

1038
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: should be certain groups or areas, or at least certain

1039
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: decisions like, Hey, we're a media company and we want

1040
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: to figure out if we should be doing things in

1041
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, um like this new platform, and if we

1042
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: should invest in it. Traditionally, they'll write a memo, they'll

1043
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: discuss it with the executive team, and the executive team

1044
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: makes a call. What they should really be doing is

1045
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: grabbing the twenty five people that work at that company

1046
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: who are experts to actually live this world and let

1047
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: them figure it out together and make that decision. Yeah. Well,

1048
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting in the big shift because

1049
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: I worked at you for a long time and it

1050
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: is the company that actually built the manager right to

1051
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: find what middle management was is that, Yes, grab the people,

1052
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: hire the practitioner and work with them to figure this out.

1053
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: But also go and work with your customer. I think

1054
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: that customers right want very specific things, and they know

1055
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: your brand sometimes and I think more so now and

1056
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: is going to be increasingly better than the marketing manager

1057
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: working on the brand. Yeah, of course, of course. And

1058
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: like that's where again like to really kind of go

1059
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: full circle in the conversation. It's really a bottom suck mentality.

1060
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: It's welcoming in you know, your your your collaborators, your colleagues,

1061
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: your employees, your customers, and really trying to build a

1062
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: new way to come to better decisions, to kind of

1063
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: move forward value value right, And it's probably doing that.

1064
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean, dows are still early, right, Like we we

1065
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: wrote about this one article on dark Star, which is

1066
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: probably my favorite one so far, which was basically like

1067
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: that these crypto communities are the MC mansions of the Internet.

1068
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: So basically like digital ownership is here and everyone is

1069
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: like launching an n F team project and building a

1070
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 1: community and setting up a dowb um. And it's kind

1071
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: of like in the eighties or nineties when everyone like

1072
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: moved to like rural areas and their mega mansions, right,

1073
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: but there was like no downtown. No one spent time

1074
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: building community activities. It was just like a mortgage lender

1075
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: and a bank. And now like a lot of them

1076
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: are deserted or you know people people no longer live there,

1077
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: they move back to the cities. So it's very important,

1078
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: I think to focus on programming when it comes to

1079
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: like building these relationships and building these communities. And I

1080
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: think some dows, depending on who's in them, will do

1081
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: that very well. But I think to assume that all

1082
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: dows are going to do that isn't necessarily the case.

1083
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: So I think like programming is very important. People that

1084
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: are spending time and helping to coordinate and drive conversations

1085
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: will be critical to like seeing seeing these things succeed

1086
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: long term. So Jared, what should marketers be watching in

1087
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: the media space or who should they be watching in

1088
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: the media space? Yeah, I mean I think like Twitter,

1089
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: like Twitter is the best place for this um, you know,

1090
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: especially if you want to keep up to date on

1091
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, certain thought leadership. UM. I call it like

1092
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: business fiction UM, where like people are just coming up

1093
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: with crazy ideas that they just work to make factum,

1094
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: which I find very like motivating UM. Or like what

1095
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: new like n f T projects or products or programs

1096
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: are really coming out? UM. People people do great lists,

1097
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: so like I would like check out like Koopa. Troopa

1098
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: is a great handle who creates these lists of like

1099
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: who you should follow if you want to learn more

1100
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: about Taos, if you want to learn more about n

1101
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: f T s UM. I feel like those things are

1102
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: more like like are just so more and more common.

1103
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: But that's the best way. I mean a lot of

1104
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: the builders and the thinkers and um, you know people

1105
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: who are spending time they're not like writing articles, are

1106
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: necessarily doing interviews. I mean some are obviously like we're here,

1107
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: but for the most part, people are spending most of

1108
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: their time on Twitter, creating content, putting ideas out there,

1109
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: having discourse with one another. So to really go deep,

1110
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: one like find the right people, which you easily account

1111
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and two you have to put in the effort,

1112
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: like if you want to learn about web three, sign

1113
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: up for a wallet, you know, get on Twitter, get

1114
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: into the discords, like really throw yourself in it for

1115
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: two weeks. I guarantee you'll get like addicted and it'll

1116
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: just kind of open your eyes as for what's possible,

1117
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: and you'll both be inspired but also pretty convinced that

1118
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: this is, you know, the next the next front, here

1119
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: an opportunity. Who are you watching from a media company

1120
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: standpoint me, you're leading the crypto practice presumably, I mean

1121
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: the Turning Group is but investing in media companies and

1122
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: new media companies entertainment for a while. Now. This is

1123
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: obviously not investment advice, just disclaimer. So i'd like, I

1124
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: don't really I believe that there is opportunity in bottoms

1125
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: of media that is going to happen through dows and

1126
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: you know companies like mirror Um which don't necessarily need

1127
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: investment or funding because they're basic doing that with the community,

1128
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: with the people UM. I actually have yet to really

1129
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: get super excited about traditional media companies and web three

1130
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: I think and exists and new media companies and web

1131
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: three that are outside of those like smaller kind of

1132
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: like bottoms up consortiums. I actually think that the brands,

1133
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: like the companies that are building like platforms, whether that's

1134
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: around like learning, you know, different ways to engage with

1135
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: blockchain or gaming, are actually going to become the media companies.

1136
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: Like I think we're like it's funny, right, we always

1137
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: talked about brands publisher and it became such like a

1138
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: weird like b S type thing UM. But in the

1139
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: case of it wasn't originally of course, like all Laura's

1140
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: clients do it the best. But in like this space,

1141
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: like some of the most provocative thinkers and workers are

1142
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: the CEOs or the people that work at these platforms

1143
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: and they're creating content and they're bringing community, and I

1144
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: think like the media companies that will kind of look

1145
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: at and consume, and you know, in like like like

1146
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 1: focus our energy on, are actually going to be companies

1147
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: that provide a service and value that want to like

1148
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: target more top of funnel, create content, focus on distribution,

1149
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: and media companies are kind of built out of that.

1150
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean a big one, a big one that I

1151
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: always talked about that I think is like very relatable,

1152
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: is like if local news was it now, So if

1153
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: local news effectively you're gonna need another show. There's so

1154
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: much innovation going on in this area. By the way,

1155
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: there's so much innovation. I just want to like for

1156
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: marketers out there. Local news used to be a service, right, Like,

1157
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: its role was really informing the community around you know, crime,

1158
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: new business, selections, government, um et cetera. And then just

1159
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: because of the business models, they had to move away

1160
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: from that, right, advertising became a scale game. So your

1161
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: local newspapers started focusing on national actions and national stories

1162
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: and you were like, I don't need them for this, right, Like,

1163
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: I think the cool idea for this would be if

1164
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: there was a community that you know, each household purchased

1165
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: a token right that gave them ownership of the local newspaper,

1166
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: and that token allowed them to kind of choose and

1167
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: vote who to hire, as like the editor um allowed

1168
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: them governance on what to cover, so like basically, you know,

1169
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: the residents would be able to say, don't cover you know,

1170
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: the mid term elections, cover why this five G tower

1171
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: is in my backyard and who's funding it, and like

1172
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: let's get to the bottom of this, like really being

1173
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: hands on with getting local news to like service the community.

1174
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: That's an amazing use case and it's less And this

1175
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 1: is what I love about Web three. People focus so

1176
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: much on the financials, but that is way less about

1177
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: the financials and way more about the influence and more

1178
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: about saying, I'm not investing in this because I want

1179
01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: to make money and dairy drives the bottom line. Of course, Jared,

1180
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:01,919
Speaker 1: you have to come back. We have a part two,

1181
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 1: Part three. We didn't even get to secondary markets. There's

1182
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 1: so much more to unpack on the brand side. But

1183
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: as you know, before you go, we need the jard

1184
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 1: Dicker Web three bye bye bye. So what am I buying?

1185
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 1: I am I am actually buying Meta like not the stock,

1186
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: but I love the even though like I know there's

1187
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:31,600
Speaker 1: so much discussion around like Facebook et cetera, and the announcement.

1188
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: I am very butt in on the idea of what

1189
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: oculus has done and how quickly it's been able to move,

1190
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,480
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of like outside innovation

1191
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: that needs to influence it. But I am pretty bought

1192
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 1: in on that area of meta in the future. Okay,

1193
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 1: what are you saying goodbye to? By? What am I

1194
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: saying goodbye to? Um? Honestly, I think I think I

1195
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: think I'm saying about it. I mean, this is a

1196
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: is me being totally roped into Web three, but I'm

1197
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: definitely saying about the traditional advertising. Yeah, well, thank you.

1198
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: I hope we all are so there will not be

1199
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: banner ads on the blockchain. No, I think I think

1200
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: brand dollars will exist, But I think brand should start

1201
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: focusing on like n f t s, building stronger communities,

1202
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: how to like build more loyal audiences, like just use

1203
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: your money elsewhere right, Like, Because if brands are purchasing

1204
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: advertising in order to reach audiences and convert to purchase goods,

1205
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,879
Speaker 1: you know what better way, going back to the example earlier,

1206
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: if you could start to build mechanisms where if you

1207
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 1: are you know, effectively advertising for a brand, but that

1208
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: brand is also like recognizing that now and rewarding you.

1209
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: Then do they really need to be spending money to

1210
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 1: target you or do you actually start to find those

1211
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: brands find that value because you're incentimized to do that. So,

1212
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that's right obvious and that writing is on

1213
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: the wall. But a lot of people will challenge that

1214
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,440
Speaker 1: and be like, you know, it's you know whatever, gazillion

1215
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: dollar market and the dollars need to go somewhere. You know,

1216
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 1: I do believe that that that that marketers, you know,

1217
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: especially one is listening right here, and you know, advertisers

1218
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,640
Speaker 1: should get smart about where that goes. It doesn't just

1219
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 1: mean reallocate display or targeting users. It should go to

1220
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: like how do you functionally start to invest in your customer? Yes? Also,

1221
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: is it fair to say that will be the end

1222
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: of the CPM model? I mean, I mean that's really

1223
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: up to you guys. Okay, Well, I think here's the thing, right, Well,

1224
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: here's the thing. The ad like object on digital. The

1225
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: banner AD came out of right remnant inventory. The battery

1226
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: ad right basically came out of the transitionary moment, which

1227
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: is from printed digital where where newspapers didn't want to

1228
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 1: spend any energy on digital advertising because print was their

1229
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: business and they put one person on it that designed

1230
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: the page in an exact replica of the printed and

1231
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: put the ads on the side and didn't stop it.

1232
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: So Google came in and said, hey, we'll figure out

1233
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,839
Speaker 1: how you monetize that, and then all of a sudden

1234
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,839
Speaker 1: they own their business. I mean traditional like media companies

1235
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 1: give that business away Goog Google didn't take it. They

1236
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 1: didn't put any attention for time on that. And we're

1237
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: in that moment right now. This is why, like when

1238
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 1: people you go back to and I think maybe we

1239
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: spend maybe part of session to episode two with Jared

1240
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: dicker on this is the content evolution because I think

1241
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,440
Speaker 1: that for marketers, they looked at it is like another

1242
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 1: place to do advertising rather than creating valuable, right, something

1243
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 1: valuable And like, let's look at that fucking arc by

1244
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 1: the way, you follow that, Excuse me, I get so excited,

1245
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: But you look at that arc and then you can

1246
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 1: see where Web three is going. Yeah, well it finally

1247
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: is what. Content is not an afterthought or an add

1248
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,719
Speaker 1: on or an ancillery project. It is the path, Yes,

1249
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: it is, yes, content and programming, it's programming and then

1250
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: you want to talk about the the agency model. Now

1251
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: is the time where agencies have the opportunity to go

1252
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: and create. You have to shift. There are so many

1253
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: freaking amazing storytellers and creatives and in innovators and under

1254
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: they understand the fact that there are thousands of creatives

1255
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: sitting in advertising agencies still making thirty second adds when

1256
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: they could be creating these phenomenal experiences and value for

1257
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: the consumer blows my mind. So when you're no longer

1258
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: confined to a thirty second time frame orny nine bucks,

1259
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: it changes the game. But before you go, what are

1260
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,800
Speaker 1: you doing yourself? The last by B why what is

1261
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 1: Jared Dicker doing? What am I doing myself? D I? Y? Yes,

1262
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Oh it's Christmas time. I'm gonna be

1263
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: putting together all the kids towards Jared Dicker. You're coming back.

1264
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: If you're not following at Jared Dicker, be sure to

1265
01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: go hit the follow button. So much unfolded in the feed, Jared.

1266
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure when we can find you. We appreciate you.

1267
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 1: Know how many texts have Jared? Where are you? Are

1268
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: you there? Oh? Well, thank you Jared, and come back

1269
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: from part with you, of course, so always a fascinating

1270
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 1: conversation with Jared. We're fortunate enough to get our own

1271
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: version of Jared Dicker consulting on the group text, but

1272
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: appreciate Jared coming by. This is like conversation one of

1273
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: a hundred and getting deeper into an understanding, uh, everything

1274
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 1: that this new Web three space has to offer. And

1275
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,600
Speaker 1: I think what's really interesting, Alexas you don't have to

1276
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: wait for your organization to get into Web three to

1277
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: start to think about the application of principles for how

1278
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: we market today. You shouldn't wait. I think that's the

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01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: big thing. Like, you shouldn't wait, and you should be

1280
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: hiring people and talent and partners and talking to lots

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01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: of people about where you can kind of uniquely start

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01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: to experiment. I was talking to a really good friend

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01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: of ours the other day, Nick Dasarian at Target, and

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01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 1: we were talking about maybe now more than ever, brand

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01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 1: marketers and media folks who have been on the media

1286
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 1: side really have the opportunity to think and act and

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01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 1: start to function in their organization more like product people

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01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: or product marketers. And why that's important is because understanding, again,

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01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: you always have to go back to understand that consumer

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01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:48,799
Speaker 1: and what they're about, what they're doing, and what they're

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01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 1: interested in, and then how to bring them value. Plus,

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01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: the whole world basically is driven by media right now.

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01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 1: And I think Jared prompts us in this the media

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01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 1: model for how we buy, how we look at media,

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01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: where we buy media, who we're buying it from, how

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01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 1: we're actually transacting on that media has got to change.

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01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 1: So there's huge change. I don't know how that's going

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01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 1: to happen, but you know one thing that I would

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01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: love to do is invite the Atlantia community to come

1300
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: and start to think about that with us. So Atlantia,

1301
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of things to solve out there

1302
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: and we love to hear from you. How are you

1303
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: thinking about Web three, what are you doing, what are

1304
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: your questions, who are you talking to and how do

1305
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: we start to think about media buying, selling and strategy

1306
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 1: for Web three. We want to hear from you, So

1307
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: hit us up at Landia podcast on Twitter. We want

1308
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 1: to hear from you. So that is it. At Landia

1309
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 1: coming to a close. Thank you so much for listening

1310
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 1: to all of our great conversations this year. Big thank

1311
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: you to all of our guests for stopping guy and

1312
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: I heart for supporting us, Alexa Ryan, our producer, and

1313
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: I wishing you all the best. In two we'll be

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01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: back with all new episodes, and be sure to follow

1315
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Atlantia Podcast to hear what's coming next.

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Speaker 1: H