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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a squat for hers. I've never lied to you.

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Speaker 3: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 3: don't welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 3: belief and the abuse of power from two consumers who've

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Speaker 3: actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and I am

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Speaker 3: Megan Elizabeth and today our guest is Taylor Brown. She's

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Speaker 3: a former corporate executive who has a lot to say

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Speaker 3: about tech CEOs and what they have in common with

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Speaker 3: cult leaders. Full disclosure, Taylor's not our real name.

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Speaker 4: She tells us all about her experiences working as an

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Speaker 4: exec at several companies that you have definitely heard of,

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Speaker 4: where the line is between company culture and cult, and

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Speaker 4: how tech superstars are regarded as the new gurus who

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Speaker 4: are going to change the world.

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Speaker 3: Other topics we touch on include group retreats, We Work,

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Speaker 3: of course we watch the We Work documentary, and our

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Speaker 3: dear leader, Elon Musk Amen. I don't know why, I

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Speaker 3: am so cond so convinced that Elon Musk will be

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Speaker 3: the ruler of the world in a very scary way

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Speaker 3: at some point. I don't know why, but this is

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Speaker 3: what I think.

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Speaker 4: I absolutely agree I'm ready for it, though I think

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Speaker 4: anything would be better.

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Speaker 5: At least you have some ideas.

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Speaker 3: True, Okay began, Well, I'm chatting with you from New York,

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Speaker 3: so I don't know what's going on in LA. Tell

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Speaker 3: me what the cultiest thing to happened to you this

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Speaker 3: week was.

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Speaker 4: Oh, man, I am embedded in a war here of

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Speaker 4: different sides of something, both being kind of culty. So essentially,

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Speaker 4: I am on medication for depression and anxiety. I have

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Speaker 4: a psychiatrist and we talk every three months or whatever,

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Speaker 4: and some of it hasn't been really resolving itself. So

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Speaker 4: then I started to talk to some other people who

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Speaker 4: are like going to people who are doing ketamine therapy

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Speaker 4: and you know, or going out and doing.

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Speaker 5: Some drug in Peru or all of those things.

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Speaker 4: And whereas my psychiatrist is like, no, you shouldn't do that.

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Speaker 4: No one is telling me not to go to a psychiatrist,

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Speaker 4: but people are saying, maybe you should start looking into

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Speaker 4: alternate solutions. And it doesn't feel to me as though

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Speaker 4: people on either side are willing to look further.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. I get a lot of that too. There

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Speaker 3: are people who are like sort of heavily entrenched in

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Speaker 3: the idea of their side, which is either that like

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Speaker 3: all modern medicine is bad and psychiatry is very dangerous

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Speaker 3: and we don't know what it's doing to our bodies.

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Speaker 3: And people who are like, don't do drugs. Drugs aren't

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Speaker 3: gonna help, right, They're not gonna help your depression. Right,

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Speaker 3: Not that people are saying don't do drugs, but that

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Speaker 3: it's like I was just talking to someone the other

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Speaker 3: day about ayahuasca and how his friend was an alcoholic

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Speaker 3: and then he did ayahuasca and he was completely changed

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Speaker 3: for three months and then immediately got back to his alcoholism.

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Speaker 3: So then he was like, Okay, I gotta go back

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Speaker 3: and do ayahuasca again and it will change me again,

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Speaker 3: and was completely changed for two more months, right, and

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Speaker 3: now as an alcoholic.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, there's some deep seated shit you gotta get into.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I've spent fifteen years in therapy, so

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Speaker 4: I would like to move.

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Speaker 5: On, and I feel you maybe drugs are cool. I

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Speaker 5: don't know.

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Speaker 3: We'll see, there's research being done, more will be revealed.

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Speaker 3: I go to talk therapy and I love it and

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Speaker 3: I think it's really important. But I also feel like,

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Speaker 3: as women, our lives are kind of talk therapy because

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Speaker 3: we are socialized to talk about our feelings. So while

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Speaker 3: it's very important for somebody who maybe doesn't have the

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Speaker 3: person in their life to challenge them and be real

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Speaker 3: with them and help them look deeper, at a certain point,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, but I need like some actionable things

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Speaker 3: to do exactly that aren't just like telling you about

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Speaker 3: my trauma, because like, I know what it is now,

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Speaker 3: and I know what my hang ups are, and I

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Speaker 3: know I like have a deep seated need to be

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Speaker 3: respected by men, and you know, but now, what, like

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Speaker 3: what's next? What are the actionable things that I can

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Speaker 3: do to make myself better?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 4: I I sure do. What's going on in New York?

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Speaker 4: What's the cultiest thing that happened to you out there?

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Speaker 3: I watched that docuseries you know how we love docuseries

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Speaker 3: on this show called Sons of Sam on Netflix. Do

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Speaker 3: you know anything about it?

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Speaker 4: I've seen it sitting up there and I've meant to

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Speaker 4: press play.

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Speaker 5: But I haven't yet.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So no, it's about the murderer, the son of Sam.

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Speaker 3: And listen, folks, I'm about to spoil the series, is it?

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Speaker 5: Okay?

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Speaker 3: If I spoil the series. Yeah, okay. If you don't

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Speaker 3: want Sons of Sam on Netflix about the serial killer

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Speaker 3: spoiled for you, then do not listen further. Skip ahead

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Speaker 3: five minutes. Okay. Basically, as we're watching, they're painting this picture.

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Speaker 3: It all centers around this journalist who kind of became

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Speaker 3: obsessed with the case with these murders. For context, the

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Speaker 3: Son of Sam murders were it was basically like shooting

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Speaker 3: couples and lovers lane and shooting random women on the

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Speaker 3: street and no rhyme or reason to it, just random

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Speaker 3: shootings in New York in like the seventies. I think

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Speaker 3: this one journalist sort of became obsessed with this idea

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't just committed by the one guy, David Burkowitz,

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Speaker 3: that it was committed by several people who were in

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Speaker 3: a Satanic cult. And there are a few pieces of

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Speaker 3: evidence that are really compelling, But then he just gets

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Speaker 3: deeper and deeper into it and nothing ever really seems

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Speaker 3: to pan out. He's like traveling to other states to

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Speaker 3: talk to them about cult stuff there and two of

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Speaker 3: the guys who were actually the Son of Sam, which

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Speaker 3: was the name that David Burkewit's like he got Sam

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Speaker 3: from his neighbor Sam and hung out with his sons apparently,

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Speaker 3: so the actual sons of Sam were alleged to be

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Speaker 3: in this satanic cult and then they both mysteriously died,

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Speaker 3: one in a car accident, in one of suicide. But

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Speaker 3: like within rapid succession, there's some interesting stuff, but the

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Speaker 3: farther it down it goes. I was like, this documentary

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Speaker 3: is I feel like there's this is just painting a

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Speaker 3: picture and this is what happened in the end of

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Speaker 3: a basically early very cue and any kind of conspiracy

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Speaker 3: where it's like a bunch of satanic cults they're all

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Speaker 3: conspiring together, and it gets deeper and deeper and deeper,

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Speaker 3: and it involves snuff films and I think children are

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Speaker 3: somehow used at some point, and.

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Speaker 5: Is this a documentary?

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Speaker 3: It is, and then by the final episode you learned that,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, So it seems like he really was just

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Speaker 3: kind of this sad man who had a few things

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Speaker 3: and didn't want to believe that they didn't add up

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Speaker 3: to the thing he wanted them to add up to.

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Speaker 3: There's an interview with the killer where he's leading him

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Speaker 3: the whole time where the journalist is doing an and

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Speaker 3: televised interview with him and basically leading him the whole time,

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Speaker 3: and David burg Whiz is just like, yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: that's what it was. Yeah. Anyway, it's really sad. It's

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Speaker 3: really sad, and there are a couple of unanswered questions.

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Speaker 3: But to me, you know, and the person I'm staying

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Speaker 3: with is like convinced that it was definitely more than

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Speaker 3: David Burkwoods who acted. But I'm not compelled by that

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Speaker 3: evidence because it largely relies on witness memory, which we

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Speaker 3: know is very very malleable. If they're exposed to information

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Speaker 3: or certain ideas before an interview, like they're more likely

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Speaker 3: to have that be the thing in their mind. So anyway,

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Speaker 3: it's very interesting and they try to connect like or

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Speaker 3: he tried to connect I should say this like local

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Speaker 3: group that would meet in the woods for Satanic rituals

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Speaker 3: and potentially killed a couple of German shepherds, which is

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Speaker 3: fucked up to this group called the process to Charles Manson,

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Speaker 3: to Satanism at large. But this was all during while

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Speaker 3: all of this investigation is happening, the Satanic panic, right,

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Speaker 3: and we know about the Satanic panic, Like we know

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Speaker 3: that people were totally put in prison who did not

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Speaker 3: deserve to be there because people were just so convinced

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Speaker 3: that Satanists were behind every evil thing that happened. Because

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Speaker 3: it's easier to believe that there's a terrifying group of

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Speaker 3: Satan worshiping folks out to get us than it is

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Speaker 3: to believe that some people are just randomly evil for

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Speaker 3: no reason, right, you know? Anyway, that's my rant. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's worth a watch. But I find this

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Speaker 3: idea of like conflicting evidence really interesting, and I think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of an important lesson in general that like

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Speaker 3: every conspiracy will have elements that are legitimate and elements

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Speaker 3: of truth every conspiracy theory, but that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 3: it leads to all of the things that people have

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Speaker 3: connected it to. You know, Yeah, what's the closest you've

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Speaker 3: come to believing in the conspiracy theory? Like a wild

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Speaker 3: conspiracy theory?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know if the nine to eleven

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Speaker 4: conspiracy theories are so wild that I remember watching videos

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Speaker 4: where it's like.

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Speaker 5: Look, the plane flying into the tower has no windows

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Speaker 5: in it.

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Speaker 4: This isn't a like commercial airplane and they're like zooming

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Speaker 4: in pixel on YouTube and I'm like, hey, that doesn't

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Speaker 4: have windows. And I was like, okay, I need to

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Speaker 4: like chill and not because I'll just get I'll get

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Speaker 4: too deep. So that was what ten years ago that

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Speaker 4: I kind of started looking into that and then I

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Speaker 4: and then I just cut myself off.

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Speaker 3: That's good. Yeah, it's a good place to nip it

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Speaker 3: in the butt. The phrase, by the way, is nip

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Speaker 3: in the bud. And I'm just gonna say that because

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Speaker 3: so many people think it's nip in the butt. And

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Speaker 3: my friend texts to me nip in the butt the

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Speaker 3: other day. I was like, honey, whoa it is? It

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Speaker 3: is bud, my dear, all right, that's my anyway. I

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Speaker 3: am excited for this one because you know, I love

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Speaker 3: to talk about our future, dear leader yell On Musk,

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Speaker 3: love to talk about tech gurus and how culty they are,

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Speaker 3: especially because they genuinely do have so much to offer

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Speaker 3: the world so much of the time. And that's that

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Speaker 3: same thing. It's like, there's good with the bad, there's

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Speaker 3: good with the bad.

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Speaker 5: All right, shall we.

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Speaker 3: Talked to her?

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Speaker 5: Let's get into it. Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, welcome Taylor Brown your alias, but hello everyone, This

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Speaker 3: is Taylor Brown. Hi everyone, thanks for coming to the show.

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Speaker 4: Taylor is an enormously successful person who was kind of

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Speaker 4: talking to me one night about the cult of corporate

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Speaker 4: America or just business in general. The more we talked

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Speaker 4: about it, the more I was like, I want to

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Speaker 4: know what.

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Speaker 2: All your opinions on this are. So she agreed to

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Speaker 2: come on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Taylor, you have some real life experience in

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Speaker 3: the world of tech and corporate CEOs and such.

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Speaker 1: Correct, I do extensive experience.

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Speaker 3: You've worked at some major companies yourself. Can you just

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Speaker 3: like dive in and tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 3: what your experience has been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when I was watching the We Work documentary.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was just watching that.

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Speaker 7: Yes, it got me thinking because I had known a

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Speaker 7: bit about the company, and I had known a bit

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Speaker 7: about the leadership, and over the years had talked to

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Speaker 7: different employees that were there currently or had been there

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Speaker 7: in the past, and.

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Speaker 1: They kind of said to me, yeah, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: this kind of culture that is pretty extreme, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we kind of believe in the mission, but we're just

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Speaker 1: we're just kind of playing along, right, like we have

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Speaker 1: these crazy retreats and we have these crazy events that

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Speaker 1: we do, and everybody's got it buy in. And there's

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Speaker 1: some people that are really bought in, and then there's

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Speaker 1: other people that are you know, we're just kind of

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Speaker 1: like going along for the ride. The main distinction for

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Speaker 1: people was like had they had a lot of prior

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Speaker 1: work experience before or not. And I think the folks

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Speaker 1: who maybe hadn't really had other places that they worked,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of one hundred percent bought it. And

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Speaker 1: you kind of saw that a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: document to where his assistant was talking and she was

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Speaker 1: just absolutely devastated about the kind of the demise of

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Speaker 1: the company. And then there were some other folks who

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Speaker 1: were a little bit more experienced and they were kind

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Speaker 1: of like, yeah, you know, we've been around the block

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Speaker 1: a little bit and we were kind of questioning things,

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Speaker 1: but they were still all playing along, right, And so

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Speaker 1: it just got me thinking, especially as I was watching

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Speaker 1: these like rock concerts that they were putting on, and

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Speaker 1: like how they would idolize him. And I've seen this,

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Speaker 1: you know, in real life, and a lot of times

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Speaker 1: these CEOs they kind of like get high on their

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Speaker 1: own supply, right, Like they believe their own stuff, and

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Speaker 1: it kind of just becomes this like self perpetuating. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: why is this person really good at their job?

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Speaker 2: Like why is this a great idea?

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Speaker 1: Like there's not a whole lot of like digging in

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Speaker 1: becomes really about like the personality, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: times what I see in organizations is it.

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Speaker 2: Is a culture personality.

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Speaker 1: It's like whatever that person's kind of behaviors and beliefs are,

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Speaker 1: whether or not they actually abide by them, well, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that they're preaching, it's almost like they exploit

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Speaker 1: the people that come to work for them and they

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Speaker 1: tap into something that those people want to hear. You

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Speaker 1: saw a lot with that, specifically if we work, which

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Speaker 1: was like oh the we, not the me, right, and

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Speaker 1: which is a very kind of millennial idea, right, Like

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Speaker 1: you see it even in like politics, where like Bernie

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Speaker 1: Sanders is super popular with millennials, right, Like I'm a

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Speaker 1: gen X or so it's a bit of a generation

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Speaker 1: got for me. But what you see is this kind

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Speaker 1: of turnaround from my generation, which was all about like

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Speaker 1: what do you have, what kind of CARDI drive? What

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Speaker 1: do you you know?

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Speaker 2: All of the like vary.

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Speaker 1: About the me, right, and then this next generation is

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Speaker 1: kind of going back to like this kind of communal

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Speaker 1: like experiences, which is why we work successful as a business,

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Speaker 1: which is why you know Instagram and Airbnb and these

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Speaker 1: other companies are successful because they're all about like these

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Speaker 1: experiences that people are having rather than like an accumulation

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Speaker 1: of things that you're possessing. And so there is this

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Speaker 1: like idea in the kind of zeitgeist of this age

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Speaker 1: group that's coming in and has been in the workforce

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Speaker 1: of the kind of communal like what about like the

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Speaker 1: rest of society and what about corporate social responsibility and

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Speaker 1: what about the we? And so he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of tapped into that, and it was like the

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Speaker 1: perfect time, you know, in kind of corporate history to

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Speaker 1: be able to run a company kind of based on

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Speaker 1: that idea. I don't know how much money everybody else

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Speaker 1: walked away with, right, versus how much money he walked

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Speaker 1: away with, even though the business is clearly not what

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Speaker 1: he said it was right. There certainly was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a bait and switch there.

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Speaker 2: I don't think him redistributing his wealth. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe he is, but I don't think.

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Speaker 1: Him redistributing his wealth to the rest of his employees,

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Speaker 1: who you know, worked really hard and we're promised, you know,

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Speaker 1: equity in this company that was going to be worth

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Speaker 1: you know, however, many.

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Speaker 2: Billions of dollars over time, which is kind.

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Speaker 1: Of like the antithesis of what he was preaching, which

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Speaker 1: was the wea really when it actually was really just

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Speaker 1: about them.

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Speaker 3: For anyone who hasn't watched the WeWork documentary and doesn't

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Speaker 3: know that story, can you just explain what happened? Because

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Speaker 3: I only got halfway through, but basically, like what I

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Speaker 3: saw is this guy who's had some ridiculous ideas in

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Speaker 3: the past. One of them included knee pads for babies,

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Speaker 3: because babies crawl around like when they've been fined through

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Speaker 3: all of history. But he thought babies needed kneed pads.

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Speaker 3: So he creates we Work, and there are these like

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Speaker 3: Coachella like company weekend retreats where it's like a fucking

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Speaker 3: party and everyone's getting wasted. Can you just kind of

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Speaker 3: give a brief overview of what happened for anyone who

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Speaker 3: doesn't really know the story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the company and they talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this in the documentary, the premise of what they

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Speaker 1: were doing was not particularly all that innovative, Like leasing

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Speaker 1: real estate in you know, cities and maybe like less

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Speaker 1: desirable areas of cities and then subdividing it and releasing

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Speaker 1: it out like was not.

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Speaker 2: Really a new idea.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of companies that have been doing this

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Speaker 1: for years where you would go and you know, you

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Speaker 1: pay a premium for an office space and they have

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Speaker 1: everything set up, like there's a bunch of companies that

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Speaker 1: have been doing this for a long time. But what

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Speaker 1: he was kind of doing is like he was re

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Speaker 1: packaging it as if it was some sort of tech

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Speaker 1: company and so he wanted clearly wanted to be like

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Speaker 1: a tech company.

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Speaker 2: CEO, although really it was a real estate company.

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Speaker 1: He would say over and over again, this is not

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Speaker 1: a real estate but that's essentially what they were doing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they were just going into buildings, leasing the space,

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Speaker 1: remodeling it to make it look like super slick and

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Speaker 1: you know, and have they have like beer kegs.

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Speaker 2: I actually never personally liked we.

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Speaker 1: Work had gone into them a few different times, but

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Speaker 1: it always felt a little strange to me, just like

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Speaker 1: the vibe there felt strange, I never really wanted to

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Speaker 1: work in one. And then there were other companies that

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Speaker 1: were trying to kind of ride their coattails that were,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing similar things after that that never quite

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Speaker 1: got as big. What then started happening was they started

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Speaker 1: getting investments from venture capital and so then they started

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Speaker 1: going like deeper and deeper and going in like bigger

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Speaker 1: buildings and better areas and so and then that just

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Speaker 1: like became this explosion of hiring, and their valuation kept

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Speaker 1: going up, up, up and up right, and then they

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Speaker 1: got this big investment from soft bank and soft bank

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Speaker 1: if if it's I don't want to go into boring

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Speaker 1: stories about vcs, but they're they're based in Asia.

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Speaker 2: And they have a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: They have a lot of they have a lot of

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Speaker 1: Saudi money, which is always kind of ironic when you

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Speaker 1: trace the money when you're working for an organization, then

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Speaker 1: you trace back where the money is coming from, and

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Speaker 1: then you kind of try to square that circle with

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Speaker 1: like what do we actually stand for versus like who's

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Speaker 1: funding is always.

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Speaker 2: That's a totally separate conversation, but it's just kind of interesting.

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Speaker 1: But as things are kind of getting bigger and bigger

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Speaker 1: and bigger. You know, you see that the ego inflation

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Speaker 1: is getting bigger and bigger, right, and the hype is

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Speaker 1: getting bigger, and people are starting to poke holes a

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Speaker 1: little bit in it, like reporters are poking holes.

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Speaker 2: But then he's so charming, right, and and you.

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Speaker 1: Even see some reporters in the documentary talking about it

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Speaker 1: as like I should have pushed harder. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like they wanted to believe it, right, because he

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Speaker 1: was so charismatic. He was like such a like he

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Speaker 1: it's just this like kind of tall guy. His wife

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Speaker 1: was a Paltrow. She was a cousin of Glenna Paltrow,

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Speaker 1: so like there was a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit of that going on.

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Speaker 1: There's a little bit of this like celebrity kind of association,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of bizarre and strange. And then his

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Speaker 1: wife started getting more and more involved in the company,

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Speaker 1: and then things just started to like where they weren't

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Speaker 1: adding up over time. You know, they were just bleeding money,

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Speaker 1: and they were they had a special formula for how

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Speaker 1: they were accounting for where their money was coming in,

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Speaker 1: where the money was going out, and.

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Speaker 2: So they made it kind.

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Speaker 1: Of look as if they were profitable to a certain extent,

385
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Speaker 1: but really like their balance sheet was to completely upside down.

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Speaker 1: He's questioned on it a couple times, but it had

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Speaker 1: been going on for a while and nobody really kind

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Speaker 1: of pushed him on it, and so they were just

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Speaker 1: like hemorrhaging money. And then they were spending money. You know,

390
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Speaker 1: they were hiring people like crazy, they were building out

391
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Speaker 1: space like crazy. And they would have these events where

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Speaker 1: they were like mandatory events where they would make people

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Speaker 1: go for the weekend and they would just have these

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Speaker 1: crazy concerts and everybody was just drinking and they'd have

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Speaker 1: all this team bonding and and you just.

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Speaker 2: Feel like, why are you making people do this?

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Speaker 1: Right? Like you're a not Will employee, right, and this

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Speaker 1: is my weekend and I'm being forced you're telling me

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Speaker 1: that this is mandatory.

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Speaker 2: So that's where you start to see a lot of

401
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Speaker 2: occulty behavior, like.

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Speaker 1: Where people are screaming to the CEO like he's like

403
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Speaker 1: a rock star. You know. You would have think like

404
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 1: Bono just walked out on stage and people are like screaming,

405
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Speaker 1: and it's like it's the CEO, And so I'm just like,

406
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Speaker 1: what's going on here?

407
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Speaker 2: And then who's part of this cult?

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Speaker 1: Right, Like there's a bit of the employee is being

409
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Speaker 1: part of the cult, but honestly, there's a bit of

410
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 1: the investors being part of the cult too and buying.

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Speaker 1: And you see that, you saw that a lot with

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Speaker 1: Farnho's was Elizabeth Holmes and all of those, you know,

413
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Speaker 1: kind of like old white men who were super happy

414
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Speaker 1: to be in her presence and wanted to just give

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Speaker 1: her a bunch of money, right and with like no

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Speaker 1: real evidence of a product. And so they're part of

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Speaker 1: the cult too, right, Like they're buying in their believers,

418
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Speaker 1: right without actually having an thing to show for it.

419
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Speaker 1: So it just it caught me thinking, and I was like,

420
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Speaker 1: I feel like there is a type of person that maybe,

421
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Speaker 1: you know, forty fifty years ago would have like gravitated

422
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Speaker 1: towards cult leadership in a way. But now there's this

423
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Speaker 1: avenue for people who have this kind of almost just

424
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Speaker 1: like egomaniacle need for like validation, and they can sell

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Speaker 1: anything to anybody. And I've been in rooms where I've

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Speaker 1: seen somebody sell something that is complete bullshit and people

427
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Speaker 1: are throwing money. Smart people are throwing money at them.

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Speaker 5: Oh you know, what is that thing?

429
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Speaker 2: What is that gene?

430
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Speaker 1: What is that personality quirk that makes somebody want to

431
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Speaker 1: do that and have almost like a cult following.

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Speaker 5: What do you think is the common thread?

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Speaker 1: I think there is like exceptional narcissism and exceptional insecurity

434
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Speaker 1: all kind of bundled into one where there's just like

435
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Speaker 1: an extreme need for validation, and there's also so this

436
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: ability to be super charming and people want to believe,

437
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: Like when someone's charming and likable and smart and says

438
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Speaker 1: the right things and is telling you something that you're like,

439
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is true, but I want

440
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Speaker 1: to believe it.

441
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 2: I've been in so.

442
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: Many rooms where that's the case, where or even after

443
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: the fact, where you know, there's certain people that I've

444
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 1: that I've worked with and worked.

445
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: For that after the fact people are like, I knew it.

446
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: I knew that was you know, But I'm like, did

447
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 2: you really?

448
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: Because you were buying into it just as much as everybody,

449
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: because you're like, how could this be true?

450
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 2: Right? How could you be soundling me right?

451
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: Because there are you know, there are those people who

452
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: have achieved a level of success, like an Elon Musk

453
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: or whatever like who have had that combination of like

454
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: that like just total leglomania, but also the smarts and

455
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: also kind of like the business avoy to kind to

456
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: back it up. But then there's people that are kind

457
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: of just mimicking right that they have all those qualities,

458
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: but they don't actually know how to run a business

459
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: or like they have a bunch of ideas and they

460
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: can sell you on the ideas, but they don't know

461
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: how to actually execute them right.

462
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 2: And you know, and like I.

463
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: Think investors are you know, they throw their money around

464
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 1: and hoping, you know, out of ten things that they

465
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: throw it to, that one of them is going to stick.

466
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: And so you know, they're happy to give their money

467
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: because they're like, if this works, it's going to be

468
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: exponential returns on what I'm giving. So like I kind

469
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: of don't really care if it works because one of

470
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: the ten is going to So yeah, So I think

471
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: that there's like because it's happened before, and people are

472
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: greedy and they want to be part of something that

473
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: they think is going to be the next Facebook or

474
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: the next you know, Google, or the next like explosion

475
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: of you know of wealth, like a wealth generator for them.

476
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: They ignore maybe what their instincts are saying, where it's

477
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: like this is too good to be true and buy

478
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: into that person's vision because they're like, well, maybe I

479
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: don't understand it, but they understand it.

480
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: They're going to be able to navigate.

481
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: They're smarter than I am, and so they maybe see

482
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: things that I don't see, and so maybe just because

483
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't understand it doesn't mean that it's not possible.

484
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: Right, People like Elon Musk make it very difficult, I think,

485
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: because he does have that personality and he does have

486
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: that charisma, and then he also is innovating and like

487
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 3: is actually changing the world on some level, which is

488
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: what you kind of hope that all of these people

489
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 3: are doing when you're believing in them, I guess, And

490
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 3: how to tell the difference is a great question. I Mean,

491
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 3: I'm not much of an investor, so so I certainly

492
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 3: don't know. But like I've been in the room with Weirdly,

493
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 3: I have like some tech stuff in my family background

494
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: and some of my friends. So I've been in the

495
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: room with a handful of like very very major tech execs,

496
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: and they really do have that thing. They really do

497
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 3: have this energy where you're like, I believe in you.

498
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 3: I just believe in you as a person. You know,

499
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 3: so whatever whatever the idea is, like, it's gonna work

500
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 3: because you're this genius, you know, to me and to

501
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 3: both of you. I'm sure Donald Trump is someone who,

502
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: like we can see that he's such so obviously bullshit,

503
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: but he obviously has made people feel this way for

504
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 3: many years. I mean, look how many people have been

505
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: buying what he's selling in all different senses.

506
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 5: Of the word.

507
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. The idea of the genius is just

508
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: something that I like, I'm fascinated by that, and I

509
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: want to know how to, like how to really tell

510
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: the difference, you know, when it's not as obvious as

511
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 3: it is with Trump, because that one's obvious.

512
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for.

513
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: I mean not to get down the rabbit hole of Trump,

514
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: but like for him, if you look over his financial

515
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: dealings and his kind of business acumen from the eighties on,

516
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: really he's exploited every single loophole that can possibly be exploited,

517
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: whether it's like for the irs or through the courts

518
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: or through a banks, Like he has screwed over pretty

519
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: much every entity that he's ever kind of comm in

520
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: contact with and pushed it to its edge and really

521
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: like has leveraged like his on paper money over and

522
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: over and over again. It's actually like it would be

523
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: an interesting like business school class to like think through

524
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: like how he's exploited everything, every rule that has ever

525
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: been kind of created, and every loophole that he's ever

526
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: been able to find and then gotten people to believe

527
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: that he's actually successful in spite of all the evidence

528
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: to point that he's not.

529
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 4: You know, right, what the fuck is that about? Because

530
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 4: the place you used to work used to make you

531
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: go on retreats all the time. Nexium was all about

532
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 4: the retreats. It feels a little weird. But why do

533
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 4: I need to go on a retreat with the people

534
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 4: I work with?

535
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: I'm not what? Why? Yeah?

536
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Why do I need to do that all the fucking time?

537
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: That's also like a philosophical debate around what is the

538
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: role of the company in your life personally? And I

539
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: think that there's a continuum of involvement that people would

540
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: say there's a base camp CEO enough for the company

541
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: based camp. But that just kind of came out in

542
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: the last couple of days where he was like, you're

543
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: not allowed to talk about anything that's going on in

544
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: the world.

545
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: We're only talking about work at work.

546
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: And same with Shopify, Like he kind of came out

547
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: and was like, I, you know, I don't want people

548
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: on you know, trolling slack and you know, being distracted

549
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: and talking about you know, because there's a lot of

550
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: a lot of shit going on in the world right,

551
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: both in our own country and abroad. And then there

552
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: is the other side where you know, people are talking about,

553
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, how to create inclusion and belonging and how

554
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: to bring your int whole self to work and how

555
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: to be authentic corporate social responsibility and you should be

556
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: able to talk about these things at work and things

557
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: at work, and the leaders should have a point of

558
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: view about what's going on with Asian Americans and what's

559
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: going on and.

560
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: The Gaza strip and you know, like all of that.

561
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: Like now, CEOs are not.

562
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: Just expected to like run the business, but they're expected

563
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: to like be these types of leaders that haven't say

564
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: all the right things about everything that's going on in

565
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: the world, right, And so those are the kind of

566
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: extremes of like, well, how involved should the company be.

567
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of people that you know, are

568
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: on the one side that think that the company that

569
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: where you work is part of like who you are

570
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: and as part of your identity, and that's where your

571
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: friends are. That's how you meet friends. Maybe you're dating

572
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: somebody at work. These are the people you spend a

573
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: lot of time with, and they're all in with the retreats.

574
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: They're all in with the off sites and the overnights

575
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: and their treats, and you're right, Like I worked for

576
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: companies before where like almost every week I was at

577
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: an off site like or retreat or I would fly

578
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: all around the world and all around the country, and

579
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: we do overnights, and it was like it was intense, and.

580
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I think it was.

581
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: There are some benefits to it where you're developing trust

582
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: and you're understanding who people are like as humans, and

583
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, you can resolve conflict quicker right when you

584
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: trust people and you know who they are as opposed

585
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: to just kind of seeing each other like quote nine

586
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: to five in the office. So I think that there's

587
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: some benefit to it, But then there is it goes

588
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: to these extremes where it's like it's a mandatory or

589
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: requirement where it's like you're away from your family, you're

590
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: away from your spouse or your children or your life

591
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, maybe your care for parents, and

592
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: like now you have to on your kind of off

593
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: hours also be you know, like it's like forced.

594
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: Fun right, right.

595
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: And there was times where I would be like why

596
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: do I have to do this, you know, like why

597
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: do I have to like and then we would go

598
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: away and like every meal we'd have to have every

599
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: meal together, and it was like everything was scheduled, right,

600
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I've developed like deep friendships

601
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: from that, and I don't I don't think. I definitely

602
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: don't like regret having that experience, but I but there

603
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: is something about that requirement that feels sketchy because at

604
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like the company, if the

605
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: company wants to let go of you're like, guess what,

606
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: You're dropped, Like you're dropped tomorrow.

607
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: But yet you're expected.

608
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: To like go to all of these things, leave your life, right,

609
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: like put your life on hold, and you know, be

610
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: part of these like overnights that are it's like invasive, right.

611
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,239
Speaker 1: And there was always and I don't really drink, there

612
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: was always a lot of drinking.

613
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: You know, people would say things.

614
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: And then you're just like, oh, I have to.

615
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm really uncomfortable.

616
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 4: It feels like a breeding ground for people to just

617
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: have sex with each other or like stupid shit that happen.

618
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: What's what's something at a retreat that you're like, oh,

619
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: that was actually really helpful, Like have you ever done

620
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 4: an exercise? Or like what the fuck are they doing

621
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: on these things?

622
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: Like sometimes you're talking about business stuff, but sometimes you're

623
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: doing karaoke, you know, like sometimes you're like doing hikes

624
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: or bike rides.

625
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: Or I don't know.

626
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we would go to the crazy places and

627
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: do these really interesting things with the people in those

628
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: countries and like get to know the cultures and like,

629
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: so some of it was cool, you know, like we

630
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: did like scavenger hunts and like, but it's also like,

631
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: how is this.

632
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: Moving anything forward?

633
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: You know? I think there's companies that take it to

634
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: the total extreme.

635
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: I mean it seems like a good business practice in

636
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: a way, because it is important to like you were saying,

637
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: conflict resolution is easier when you trust people, and the

638
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: way to trust people is to like spend quality time

639
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: with them and do exercises with them. I mean, obviously

640
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 3: this is the opposite of corporate culture, but like I

641
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: think in any kind of group scenario, you know, I've

642
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: gone to like Sunrise Movement group meetings, and one of

643
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: the first things you do is like pair off, where

644
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 3: you get into smaller groups and you like tell each

645
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 3: other things about yourself, and then you do these like

646
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: song exercises, and the whole thing is about like getting

647
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 3: comfortable with each other so that there is a culture.

648
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: And I think the line between like having a culture

649
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: and then just straight up having a cult is one

650
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: that can be difficult to see because yeah, nextim on

651
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: the surface, like some of that stuff is just like

652
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: regular stuff that corporations do or the companies do.

653
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, we used to you can't spell culture

654
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 1: with all cultures. The other thing too, that is kind

655
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: of cult like that you see a lot is like

656
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: now companies are and I work with companies on this,

657
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: but like companies are talking about like what are their

658
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: values and what are their behaviors and like how do

659
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: they want people to act? And so it's like.

660
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 8: It's interesting because there's some similarities there where these are

661
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 8: our beliefs, right, and a lot of times those beliefs

662
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 8: are the leafs of like the leader of the CEO,

663
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 8: which they should be right.

664
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: And so I do advise people on this.

665
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: I say that like they should have values, they should

666
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: have beliefs, they should right. But it is a little

667
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: bit of a prescription for a cult, right, because it's

668
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: like what happens in a cult is like you think

669
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: and act the way that we tell you to think

670
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: and act, and if you sink or act outside of

671
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: the framework, then you're not part of this cult.

672
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 6: Right.

673
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: And it's like, hey, if you think and.

674
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: Act outside of these values, then you're not going to

675
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: be an employee anymore, right.

676
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: And so it's like it's.

677
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: Pushing people towards like behaving in a certain way and

678
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: saying that if you act in ways that are not

679
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: in accordance with these kind of shared rules that we've

680
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: come up with, then you can't really and you can't

681
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: work here, right, and you're not going to get a

682
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: good performance review or whatever. But there's a delicate balance

683
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: to it, right, Like there's you have to have that

684
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: right because you have to have like some semblance of

685
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: like shared understanding and shared language and shared beliefs. But

686
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: I think when you see it take into these extremes

687
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: where these employees are like, you know, they're in like

688
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: deep therapy for years coming out of these companies because

689
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: they felt like their minds were so manipulated and so

690
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: distorted of thinking what reality was versus what reality actually is.

691
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: And like you saw that a little you saw that

692
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: in the documentary, like where she was like, I've been

693
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: in therapy like talking about this because I really believed

694
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: in something and it was not real. Right. That sucks.

695
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: That does suck. There is this yearning for community like

696
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: you were talking about earlier, like we are so isolated

697
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: on social media, and I really do get the need

698
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: to feel like you're a part of something, but so

699
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: much of it also just feels like a capitalistic drive

700
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: when it comes to corporate stuff, specifically because it's like

701
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to make the most money if I bet

702
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: on this guy, I'm going to be the richest person

703
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: in the world, which is not something I feel like

704
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: I see that often. I guess that's not true. I

705
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: guess Nexim was like telling people they would make a

706
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: lot of money.

707
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, and that's the belief, like, right,

708
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: So it's like I'm going to get you to leave

709
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: your job at you know ge Okay, that's like you've

710
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: been at for fifteen years. I'm just making this up,

711
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: And you're going to come to this company and you're

712
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: going to make a lower salary, but you're going to

713
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: get equity, right, And the reason that you do that

714
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: is because you believe in the leadership, You believe in

715
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: a product, you believe in a service like whatever it

716
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: might be, and you think that there's going to be

717
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: some like real upside for you think that this is

718
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: going to be a wealth generator. Right, So you take

719
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: that risk. And like because you probably have some friends

720
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: or have friends of friends that have you know, we're

721
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: early employees at certain companies that you know had an

722
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: exit and they you know, they did make a bunch

723
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: of money, But like, really, who stands to make the

724
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: real who stands to.

725
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: Make the life changing money?

726
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: Like?

727
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: Right, are you going to be able to buy a car? Yeah?

728
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: Are you going to be able to buy a house?

729
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: Maybe? Are you going to be able to buy a jet?

730
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: No? Right? But is the CEO going to be able

731
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: to buy a jet?

732
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: Right?

733
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 5: Right?

734
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: In success?

735
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: Right?

736
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: In success?

737
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people get on both ends, Like there

738
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: is like exploitation of the possibility of like this upside

739
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: where it tempts people because they have they have in

740
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: themselves a bit of greed where they're like, oh, I

741
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: think this is a possibility for me, right, Like I

742
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: think that I think this could be it. I believe

743
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: in this person, and so I'm going to take this chance,

744
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: when in reality, like the money that they're going to see,

745
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: if they ever see any, is like pales in comparison

746
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: to what and even in this, even in this wee

747
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: work scenario, right, like they didn't even have a successful exit,

748
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, right, And but he had

749
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: a huge like golden parachute right where he was just

750
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: completely taken care of in like orders of magnitude, and

751
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: everybody else just kind of they just kind of like

752
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: lost their job, right and now they have we work

753
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: on the resume.

754
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 4: Did he have like thirty million dollars or it was

755
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 4: like three hundred million something absurd that he left with?

756
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: Do you remember that amount? I think it wasn't the

757
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:07,959
Speaker 2: hundreds of mineys.

758
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

759
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: They say it at the end of the documentary. I

760
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: can't remember because it's been a couple months since I

761
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: watched it, but they say it at the end of

762
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: like how much he's how much he walked away.

763
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 3: With Yeah, this is not related, but that guy's a

764
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: fucking goof. Like I'm sure in person he's very charismatic,

765
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: but on film, I'm like, this guy, that's the guy.

766
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: Especially when you see him where things are starting to

767
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: unwind towards the end and he's having to go out

768
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: on that like pitch round where he has to go

769
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: from like person to person and basically like put his

770
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: hands out and say like thank you, but please gonna

771
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: have some more. He's doing that video right where he's

772
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: like trying and then he's like trying again and trying

773
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: again and try and get and you're just like what

774
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: is going on? And you know what's really fascinating is

775
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: the amount of footage which is similar to Nexium right,

776
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: which kind of tells you, like how like Egomaniacle these

777
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: guys are. Is like the amount of footage that you

778
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: were able to have that you had from Nexium right,

779
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: amount of fact like behind the scenes footage that you

780
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: had because they're so believing in themselves, like they're like

781
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: film everything. Like I think one of the guys that

782
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: was in the documentary was part of the kind of

783
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: like event planning, like he basically built his business event

784
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: planning for.

785
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 2: We work right, Like that.

786
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: Was a whole business, right, And so they did they

787
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: have all of these recordings because you know, they were like,

788
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: well why wouldn't you right, like, why wouldn't you want

789
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: to record all this stuff? So you have all this

790
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: behind the city.

791
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: And then you kind of see him.

792
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: With like Ashton Kutcher because I guess Ashton Kutcher was

793
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: like an early investor and he's and you can even

794
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: kind of tell I don't know if you saw that part,

795
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: but it's towards the end where things are really the

796
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: wheels are really starting.

797
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: To come off, and he said he's having to go on.

798
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: The different like financial shows and say like everything is fine.

799
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: Becausoft Bank ended up pulling out their their investment like

800
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: they were going to invest again and they pulled it

801
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: out last minute and they were like everything's fine. You know,

802
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: we're super healthy, our financials are healthy. And like he's like,

803
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, propping up Ashton Kutcher, and Ashton's like, yeah,

804
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: I believe that everything's great. And I was an early

805
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: investor in Uber and and you're like watching it, you're

806
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: like you're not that good of an actor because you

807
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: kind of can tell that you think he's full of

808
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: shit too, and now you're just in it and like

809
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: he's teddling you around like to say no, tell them

810
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: it's real, right, and so you just like, oh, the

811
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: wheels are coming off with this guy.

812
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: But it's it's sad for those people. And then all

813
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: the companies.

814
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: That we don't know about or that don't get documentaries

815
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: made where people's kind of you know, their time and

816
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: energy and work is exploited for the benefit of the

817
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: person at the top who's using this idea of the

818
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: communal right, Like they're using this idea of the we,

819
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: right when really who.

820
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: Stands to profit the most?

821
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 6: Right?

822
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: And like I get it, you came up with the idea,

823
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: you went out and pitched, you got the money. But like,

824
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: then don't say it's about the week, right, Like that's

825
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: I think the thing that bothers me is like just

826
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: call it what it is, right, Like why are you

827
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: why is this pretense happening where we're pretending that it's

828
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: like some sort of like communal sharing, like we're all

829
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: going to just like share in the wealth equally, right,

830
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: That's not what's really happening. And so but you're getting

831
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: people to do what you want them to do because

832
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: you're telling them what you know they want to hear

833
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: when it's not actually.

834
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 3: What's happening right, motion to rename it me work right,

835
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: Just saying what do you think of Elon Musk just

836
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: in general? Tell me your thoughts.

837
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's some people that are like,

838
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: he's the smartest person the world. I don't know. I mean,

839
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: I've known a handful of people that have worked directly

840
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: for him. I don't think there's anybody that would ever

841
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: kind of accuse him of being an easy person to

842
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: like work around or work for. I think he's certainly inspiring.

843
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: He inspires for I think some of the wrong reasons.

844
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: He inspires a lot of CEOs because they look to

845
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: him and they're like, what is Elon doing? You know,

846
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: like what is tests to do? This is what they did,

847
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: and I heard that Elon must did this and this,

848
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: and you know, and then it becomes like the hype

849
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: becomes bigger than the person and their actual successes, and

850
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: it's like this kind of like web of stories that

851
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: go around that are what are they grounded in any truth?

852
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: Right?

853
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: Like oh I heard this right, but you heard it

854
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: from somebody who heard it from somebody who probably made

855
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: it up right, and then they're modeling themselves after whatever

856
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: it is that they're thinking that they've heard about what

857
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: he did because they're trying to like they think it's

858
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: some formula of success, right, like, if he did it,

859
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: it must be the.

860
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: Right thing to do. So I think it's dangerous.

861
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's certain obviously certain things

862
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: that he's.

863
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: Doing that are amazing for the world.

864
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: There's other things that it's like terrifying that he can

865
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: make one comment and like crash the cryptocurrency market, you know,

866
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: a day later. It's almost Trump like where he can

867
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: make like one tweet and then it's just kind of

868
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: which is scary that somebody could have that much power.

869
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: I think it's dangerous because people are looking to him

870
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: as a model for kind of how to be as

871
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: a leader, and I think he's a really exceptional visionary

872
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: and what he's been able to pull off is pretty amazing.

873
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: But I think personality, I mean, I don't know that

874
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: he's somebody that I would particularly want to model myself

875
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: after in terms of admiration from an approach, maybe as

876
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: a business person, but it's almost like people they're like

877
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: the new rock stars, you know, they're these like yeah,

878
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, I work with so many leaders that are

879
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: like what is this company doing? What is that company doing? What?

880
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: Like Bill Gates in his early days did this and that,

881
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: and like, you know, Mark Zuckerberg does this, And so

882
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: they look at these guys like they're just like absolutely

883
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: Like they're just like the Beatles, right, They're just like

884
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: absolute like idols, they have a very small sliver of

885
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: like understanding about like who they actually are and why

886
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: they do what they do and what makes them tick

887
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: and how they make decisions. And so people take little

888
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: pieces of everybody. They kind of try to create an

889
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: identity for themselves. And I think that's pretty dangerous. You know.

890
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: I think like you're not being your authentic self, like

891
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: as a leader, you're not being really true to you.

892
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 1: You're trying to like emulate what you think somebody else

893
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: is doing, right, and that I think can be really dangerous. So, like,

894
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: while I think that he as a person has had

895
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: like a tremendous impact on the world and cares about

896
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: the planet and like there's some amazing things that he's done,

897
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: it's pretty dangerous Its kind of scary to think, like

898
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: how dangerous that can be, Like the level of influence

899
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: that he can have from just like a little thing.

900
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 4: Especially if he's on acid all the time. Like what

901
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 4: it's scary, Like.

902
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: You're reading his tweets and you're like, is this happening?

903
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: Like is he a person that says somebody feel is password?

904
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: Like what's going on?

905
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: And I think it's much more so like that idea,

906
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: that tech ceo, that idea, you know, fifty sixty years ago,

907
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: people weren't like you know, who the.

908
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: Hell knows who?

909
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: Like and also this like founder idea, like this idea

910
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: of being a founder, like that's a very new, like

911
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: twenty first century term, right, Like I don't know who

912
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: was the founder of Delta Airlines?

913
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: Who the hell knows?

914
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: Right, Like nobody knows libody used that term before, Like you, right,

915
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: a chief executive officer because you came up through the

916
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: ranks of the country, right, And like the founder idea

917
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: in this like visit this VC like tech space world,

918
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: Like that's a whole other thing.

919
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: Like I was talking to.

920
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: Somebody the other day he's like he like he was

921
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: saying how he is the founder and like he has

922
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: the CEO and I was like, well, well, what do

923
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: you actually do and he's like, well, I'm the founder

924
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, but that's not a job,

925
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: Like he had a job in the company at this point,

926
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: or are you like.

927
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: The shadow CEO or you the.

928
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: One is the job you Like? Do you ever watch

929
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: Black Mirror?

930
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 3: I try not to watch it too much because it

931
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 3: depresses me.

932
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 2: There was this Black.

933
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: Mirror episode with this tech CEO and it was tofer

934
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 1: Grace was playing the tech CEO and it was very

935
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: like Jack Dorsey esque and he was like away at.

936
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: Some retreat in the mountains, like you know, like in a.

937
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: Low disposition, like meditating and like doing that right, you know.

938
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: And so it's just like kind of funny that, like

939
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: what you know, these guys like they have to be

940
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: it's almost like actors in a way.

941
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 2: Like really successful actors, like you almost.

942
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: Have to be a little off Yeah, you kind of

943
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: have to be like a little off center to be

944
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: able to be successful, Like you can't be really like

945
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: a normal, down to earth, like straight shooter person. You

946
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: Very rarely I've worked with people that are and have been,

947
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: but a lot of them they are these like maniacs, right,

948
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: and that it's almost like when you're a kid and

949
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: you're free and you have no fear and you're just

950
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: like running around and you're jumping and you're just like, oh,

951
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 1: the world is going to save me. And like it's

952
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: like they have that like idea that there's always going

953
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: to be like this safety, Like they can say anything

954
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: and do anything.

955
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: And somebody's always going to be there.

956
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: To like catch them, right, and like that they're they're

957
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: never going to quite fall. And so it's interesting to

958
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: see that as like adults, right, because that's kind of

959
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: the way they are. It's like, don't you have any

960
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: sense of self responsibility for what you're saying and what

961
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: you're putting into the world. It's almost like the more

962
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: controversial and the more especially with must like the more

963
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: controversial and the more like out there that he is,

964
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: the more people give him attention, right, And there is

965
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: like there is that trait of like that attention seeking, right,

966
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: Like you know, I mean like if you think about

967
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: like the twentieth century ceo and like part of this

968
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: whole talk was basically like tech CEOs as the twenty

969
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: first century cult leaders, right, Like and if you think

970
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: about like the twentieth century CEOs, like they were just

971
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: like you know whatever, like they had you know, some

972
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: of them had personalities, but for the most part they're

973
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: just like boring like business guys, right right, They're not

974
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: like out there saying and doing whatever the fuck they

975
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: want and just going off the rails, right, which you

976
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: see so much of that now.

977
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: One point that I was reading about earlier was just

978
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 3: how when somebody is considered so much of the secret

979
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 3: sauce to the company, that can make them be less

980
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 3: likely to be held accountable because it could mess with

981
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about finance, and I don't know

982
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 3: anything about text, so I'm probably going to use all

983
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: the wrong terms, but it could mess with the stock

984
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 3: market because the CEO is like, what's holding the corporation up?

985
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: Can you explain what that means?

986
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: Is obviously like the major shareholder in Tesla and SpaceX,

987
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: I'm assuming I'm sure it's still him, and so their

988
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: public companies. Well, Tesla's a public company, and so that

989
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 1: means that it's traded publicly on the markets, on the

990
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: open market, and so he can make a comment, you know,

991
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: he can make you know, have a tweet or make

992
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: a comment, and that can greatly influence the stock price,

993
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: right that can up swing it down or up and

994
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: manipulate it in ways, and that's nerve wracking for the

995
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: rest of the shareholders, especially the majority shareholders. I'm sure

996
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: that there are people that are big investors in TUSLA

997
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: that would love to, you know, take his phone away

998
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: from him so that he's stuff tweeting, but like it

999
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: can go on the place it could go in the

1000
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: in the plus or mind us. And you can see

1001
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: that a lot like the same way that you know,

1002
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: Trump would tweet about something and in the markets would

1003
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: move like these you know CEOs, most of the time

1004
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: they're pretty especially public company CEOs, they're pretty careful about,

1005
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 1: you know, what they're saying. He has not at all

1006
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: has not all been careful. He says whatever he wants,

1007
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,479
Speaker 1: whenever he wants, however he wants to do it. There's

1008
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: probably he could get in trouble with like the SEC

1009
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: if there's certain things he's saying because there's like obviously

1010
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: rules and laws around the manipulation and so he can't reveal.

1011
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: It's not like he could go out and kind of

1012
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: reveal the company's numbers prior to their earning state or

1013
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: something like that, although I'm sure he's probably been been tempted,

1014
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: so certainly there's big ways that people can manipulate by

1015
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: sharing information that they know they wouldn't traditionally, you wouldn't

1016
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: traditionally see shared. But he has no seems to have

1017
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: no filter, right.

1018
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 3: I read something about it was from like twenty eighteen

1019
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: or something, how he did get in trouble with the

1020
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: SEC but it was like ultimately just a slap on

1021
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: the wrist because he's like too important to the company,

1022
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 3: which is scary. I found an article in the Atlantic

1023
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 3: about this culture of elevating founders as this like godlike figure,

1024
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 3: and I thought that was really interesting too, because I'm

1025
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: just going to rattle off some facts here. Companies where

1026
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: the founder sticks around a CEO tend to be more

1027
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 3: innovative and more valuable. They tend to have higher stock

1028
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,959
Speaker 3: market returns, and businesses with founder CEOs have three times

1029
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 3: the returns if businesses without them, which is really interesting. However,

1030
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 3: companies led by founder CEOs have lower management scores. They're

1031
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: not as good as monitoring what happens within the firm.

1032
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: They're not as good at promoting and rewarding employees based

1033
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: on performances, and they have have less of a clear

1034
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: understanding of their own weaknesses. So that to me kind

1035
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: of feels like they can be really effective, but on

1036
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: the other hand, like they're more prone to a cult

1037
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: like environment where you know, they're not necessarily taking stock

1038
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 3: of what's actually happening within their company, right, And I think.

1039
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: This is when you see that people have had success

1040
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: up until a certain point using a playbook and they

1041
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: want to continue to double down on that playbook. I mean,

1042
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: this is sometimes when I kind of go into companies

1043
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: to help people, is like that playbook is no longer working,

1044
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: and that playbook is no longer going to continue to

1045
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: help them to kind of scale and grow.

1046
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: But some people can just want to double.

1047
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: Down on it, and they want to do the thing

1048
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: that brought them from like A to B and brought

1049
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: down that level of success, and they want to kind

1050
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: of take it from all the way from B all

1051
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: the way to Z and they don't want to necessarily

1052
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: like learn or evolve or change. And a lot of

1053
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: times they actually haven't worked anywhere else, like this might

1054
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: be like the first place that they've worked at and

1055
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: certainly the first place that they've been a CEO, and

1056
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 1: so they don't really know know how to like hire

1057
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: and manage, you know.

1058
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: So that's why I'm not surprised that those other.

1059
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: Scores, Like they tend to be like really good externally

1060
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: facing with investors and with the press, and like so

1061
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: much of who they are is so much of what

1062
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: the company is, and so their like outward presence is

1063
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: like invaluable, but like inward facing, they're not like particularly

1064
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 1: a debt to actually operating. And that's not like why

1065
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: they were give That's not why they were given the money.

1066
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: They weren't given money because they're a good operator. They

1067
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: were given money because they had a good idea, right, right,

1068
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: and so and so then they kind of keep.

1069
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: Doubling down on that.

1070
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: So I'm not surprised that, like, yeah, they're successful in

1071
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: one in the kind of externally facing way, but they're

1072
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: not successful internally. And unfortunately, corporations are about like the

1073
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: bottom line and where the money is, and so if

1074
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: investors are getting returned, they kind of don't care, Like

1075
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 1: they kind of don't care that like people are unhappy.

1076
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 2: We'll just find different people, you know.

1077
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: They tend to see the perpetuation of these leaders, you know,

1078
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: these CEOs who are actually not particularly good internal leaders,

1079
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: who might be good at inspiring people but not necessarily

1080
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: are good at actually managing people.

1081
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: And that's what the world sees.

1082
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: And that's what people are kind of buying into. And

1083
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 1: that's where you see the cult of personality, right, because

1084
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: it is all about like that one individual personality is

1085
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: running the entire company, right, it's all kind of like

1086
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: circled around them, which is you know, obviously where the

1087
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: danger comes in. But yeah, it's interesting to think about

1088
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 1: the tech CEO as the twenty first century cult.

1089
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: Leader, right, Like that persona.

1090
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: That idea of that being an option and an avenue

1091
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: for a person who has these tendencies and has or

1092
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: maybe they're maybe it's like maybe in the twenty twenties,

1093
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: because of Trump, like it's going to be the politician

1094
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: that's going to be the cult leader. You know, Like

1095
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what the next version is, but maybe

1096
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: right kind of see that happening now where it's like

1097
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to blindly follow like and you see like

1098
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: the Trump supporters like I'm going to blindly follow you

1099
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: even though like statements that you're making are not based

1100
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: in evidence, are fact, they're pre early based on opinion.

1101
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: But you're tapping into something inside of me, right, which

1102
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: is like a lot of what the in terms of

1103
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: the politics is like othering right, Like you're bad, you're

1104
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: like you're the reason that you're bad off is because

1105
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: of this other person, and we need to get rid

1106
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: of that other person to make you better off, right,

1107
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: And so it's very like it's very blame, which is

1108
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: which is easy in politics because there's unfortunately there's only

1109
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: kind of like it's been boiled down to like lowis

1110
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: common denominator of two sides. And so it'll be interesting

1111
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: to see, like Sarah Palin was the reason that Donald

1112
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: Trump became into power was because of Sarah Palin, So

1113
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see who comes into power because

1114
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump? And like what that next iteration is

1115
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: of somebody who can just really say things that are

1116
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: completely factually inaccurate, but that is tapping into the emotion

1117
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: of somebody and exploiting that emotion for their own personal gain.

1118
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 9: So is there like an answer, Is there a solution

1119
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 9: or any way that we can run businesses better and

1120
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 9: have this be something that can be a positive for

1121
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 9: us in the world and not a total fucking cult.

1122
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: There is starting to be like even just like having

1123
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: this weework documentary and like having there in those documentary

1124
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: like people, hopefully investors like and hopefully employees like, are

1125
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: starting to see what that pattern could be that there

1126
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: will be some reckoning of like not allowing this to

1127
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: kind of perpetuate and continue, that there will be more

1128
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: like evidence based decisions that are made as opposed to

1129
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: like I'm going to bet on this person because I

1130
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: like this person, because I think this person's smart, because

1131
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: the charismatic and they have really good ideas right that

1132
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: they're dead, They're making decision based on some set of

1133
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: evidence rather than just like I'm going to give you

1134
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollars and take your word

1135
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: for it, right, because it's just stupid money. Right, It's

1136
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: like totally stupid money.

1137
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 2: And hopefully that will be the reckoning.

1138
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, there's I'm sure there's

1139
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: still there's going to be the next one that's coming up.

1140
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this would be these were obviously like quite

1141
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: quite big because these companies were valued in the billions.

1142
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: This I'm sure is happening more and more on a

1143
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: smaller scale. But these people happen to be particular narcissists

1144
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: that were right like set a new low for what

1145
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: not to do. I mean, there's going to at some

1146
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: point be a correction in the in the market in general,

1147
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: just from like a global financial perspective.

1148
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: The money that's been flying.

1149
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: Around for the past ten or fifteen years has just been.

1150
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 2: Like since after the bubble, really the past.

1151
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: Ten years too, since their session has just been like

1152
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: absolutely crazy, right, And like you're seeing like how are

1153
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: all these kind of so many companies valued at a

1154
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: billion dollars? Like you look at a company that's been

1155
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: around for one hundred and fifty years and is in

1156
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: value at a billion dollars. In this company that's been

1157
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: around for ten months is a billion dollar?

1158
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: Like what's going on here? How many billions of dollars

1159
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: do you have the world based on?

1160
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: And like what's what evidence? Like what's the business case

1161
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: for this?

1162
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: And so I think people are starting to get more wise.

1163
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: To it, But there's you know, maybe it's maybe it's

1164
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: your generation, right, Maybe it's your generation when when you

1165
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: guys are really like running the show and greed is

1166
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: not at the top of mind, and it is more

1167
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: about the community. Maybe that's when something will change, but

1168
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: like only when greed and capitalism and the me like,

1169
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: if that's always running the show, then I think it's

1170
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: going to be difficult to kind of like.

1171
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 2: See through it and to get past it. But I mean,

1172
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: I have hope.

1173
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: I have hope that the that the next generation of

1174
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: people will be less greedy.

1175
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: Because at some point it's like how much.

1176
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: Do you need?

1177
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 3: You're more hopeful than I am. I feel like it

1178
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: seems to me like the younger people that I know

1179
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 3: are more more individualistic than ever so before. And on

1180
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 3: the other hand, like, of course you have people who

1181
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: are fighting for political change, young people who are doing

1182
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 3: that in a way that they never really did before.

1183
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: So honestly, like crypto is interesting, like conceptually, I think

1184
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: the reason why it's successful right now is one, obviously,

1185
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: the technology is there, and the technology has been developed

1186
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: over the years, where you know, thirty forty years ago,

1187
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: like blockchain technology was not what it is today, if

1188
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: it even existed. I think the one the technology is there,

1189
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: but the democratization of financial institutions. I think the decentralization

1190
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: of finance could be an interesting like we'll see what

1191
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: where this leads, Like we'll see what happens with this,

1192
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: like with this technology and in these digital assets over

1193
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: the next ten to twenty years. And if the central

1194
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: banks are no longer running the show and it truly

1195
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: is decentralized, like we could be at a.

1196
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 2: Really interesting place in the world.

1197
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: Right, there might be a forcing function there where it

1198
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: isn't the same. It isn't the like one hundred people

1199
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: that are running the world anymore, right, Like there's a

1200
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: decent I mean, even the TikTok thing. It's like good

1201
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,919
Speaker 1: for them, yeah, right, like good for them for making

1202
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: that money.

1203
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, what's the name of that one

1204
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 3: app that had its reckoning recently? Oh Rob Yeah, Robinhood.

1205
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 3: That was young people behind that, right yeah.

1206
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1207
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 3: So that So that is a really good point. But

1208
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 3: I think the basing your conclusions on evidence is a

1209
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: really important point because like with cult leaders of all kinds,

1210
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 3: be they religious or political, or new age or self

1211
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 3: help or whatever, so much of it is about like

1212
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: people getting tricked by this like heightened elevated emotional state

1213
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 3: that is induced by another person who's really good at

1214
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 3: manipulating their feelings, and especially when it comes to money,

1215
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: like it, we just can't be basing it on that.

1216
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 3: Although I say that, But then isn't the stock market

1217
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 3: just one giant game of the Emperor's New Clothes where

1218
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: it's really like entirely about how people feel? So I

1219
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 3: don't know, Yeah.

1220
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: Now I do.

1221
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 1: I think it is like I think it's up to

1222
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: each individual to recognize, like why are they making the

1223
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: decisions that they make? And like are they who are

1224
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: they propping up? Right? Like?

1225
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 2: Who are they?

1226
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: What kind of company are they joining? Why is it

1227
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: that they believe in them? Are they believing in it

1228
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: because of selfish reasons or did they really think that

1229
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: there is some evidence that this company is doing some

1230
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: doing the thing that they said they were going to do.

1231
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: But yes, it's the manipulation. It's the tapping into the

1232
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: emotions and the manipulation. But it's the exploitation of that

1233
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: emotion and using it against you, right to get you

1234
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: to do things that you wouldn't normally want to do.

1235
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 5: Right?

1236
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 3: Who do you have any final thoughts on tech CEOs

1237
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 3: or other corporate things?

1238
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 6: No?

1239
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: I mean again, I'm hopeful, Like I actually love being

1240
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: you know, I love being in this business. I think

1241
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: like these are total edge cases, right, Like this is

1242
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: not the norm. You know, we're taught We've talked about

1243
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: a very small handful of people in a world where

1244
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: there's like millions of people involved in it, and so

1245
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: like they are edge cases. I don't know. I am

1246
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: hopeful for the later millennial and the gen z's, the

1247
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: generation as they come into the workforce. I hope that

1248
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: I hope that corporations will start to become they'll start

1249
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: to care more about things just then, you know, besides

1250
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: just the bottom line, right, Like they'll start to care

1251
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: about their impact and society impact that they're having on individuals,

1252
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: like the responsibility socially, and you know, it's like, you know,

1253
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: I think Facebook is you know, Facebook was started by

1254
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: a millennial, right, and like, look at the impact that

1255
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: Facebook has had in the world. There's been some amazing

1256
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: things that have happened as a result of Facebook. There's

1257
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: also been some terrifying things that have happened, right, But

1258
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: that's not due to them necessarily. It's like, you know,

1259
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: there's people out there using it as a platform for

1260
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: good or for evil.

1261
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 3: Well, but the algorithm was designed a particular way.

1262
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I do.

1263
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: Think that those companies have to have a level of

1264
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: responsibility for the effects that they're.

1265
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: Having on society.

1266
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 6: Right.

1267
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: They can't just like rake in the profits and be

1268
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: like I forget it, right, Like, let's put one person

1269
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: on it, you know, right, you have to have a

1270
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: level of accountability and responsibility for what you're doing to

1271
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: the world.

1272
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 3: Right, Amen, thank you, Taylor, Thank you, Taylor, thank you.

1273
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1274
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on.

1275
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 3: Okay, Megan, Yeah, let's pick a CEO. Okay, obviously I'm

1276
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: going to pick Elon Musk. Right, would you join the

1277
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 3: Cult of Elon Musk? Would you join Elon Musk on

1278
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 3: the Moon?

1279
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 4: I am so dangerously close to joining Elon Musk on anything?

1280
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 5: Just yeah, I love them. I love them, do you?

1281
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 5: I really do?

1282
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 4: Like I honestly, he just moved to Austin, and I

1283
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 4: feel like the culture in Los Angeles has lost like

1284
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 4: it's been guess, I don't know.

1285
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 5: I'm so disappointed.

1286
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 4: I'm just like, we like had this person who's gonna

1287
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 4: get us all into space and understands AI and understands

1288
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 4: all this shit, and he like had some quote about

1289
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 4: how he won't go in hot tubs at night anymore

1290
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 4: and talk about ais because it's too much, and I'm

1291
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 4: just like, let me in, I gotta talk to you.

1292
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 5: Oh I love him. Yes, I'm in danger.

1293
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's funny. I have a really hard

1294
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 3: time with the idea of geniuses in general. I feel

1295
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 3: like that can be such a problematic thing and it

1296
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 3: can be kind of used as a tool of exclusion.

1297
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 3: That said, I do think he's done some great things.

1298
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 3: Do I think he's a raging narcissist? Absolutely?

1299
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 5: Certainly?

1300
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: Sure is colonizing space? Is that something that is gonna

1301
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: be good?

1302
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1303
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 3: Maybe for really rich people, you know, I don't know.

1304
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 3: I have a lot of conflicting feelings.

1305
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 5: But no, you're good on it.

1306
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: Here's what appeals to me about Elon Musk, the environmental stuff. Yes,

1307
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: we are losing our planet right now, and he is

1308
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 3: actually making a genuine, real impact absolutely in that, and

1309
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 3: that is really like, that is the reason that I

1310
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 3: would join the Elon Musk c That's why. Yes, side note,

1311
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 3: going to the Moon, I applied. It wasn't Elon Musk though,

1312
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 3: Oh wait, yes it is. That like Japanese billionaire who

1313
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 3: chartered the first Moon trip to the for the public,

1314
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 3: and it was gonna be eight like artists or whatever.

1315
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: I fucking applied for that shit. I want to go

1316
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 3: to the Moon so badly? Are you kidding me? Yeah?

1317
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 3: I didn't get in. Of course I didn't get in.

1318
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: Why would I get in?

1319
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: Well?

1320
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 5: Who did they choose?

1321
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 3: They chose like really epically interesting and important and deep

1322
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 3: people who are not me. I was like, I, you know,

1323
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 3: belief is something that's really employed central, soho I am?

1324
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 3: And why I want to explore the big questions of

1325
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 3: life by going to the moon. They didn't buy it.

1326
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 3: Next time, I'll be on the second flight to the Moon.

1327
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 3: That's me, that's right, Yeah, that's where I want to be. Anyway,

1328
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 3: I don't want to blow up on the first one.

1329
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 4: No offense to Elon or Japanese.

1330
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 3: I would be willing to take that risk. I know

1331
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 3: it's stupid, but I want. I just want like that

1332
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 3: kind of new experience so badly that I would take that.

1333
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 3: I would take that risk.

1334
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we will leave it there for not Okay.

1335
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 3: You can find me Lola on Instagram at La Lola

1336
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 3: o O h l A l O l A and

1337
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 3: on Twitter at Ola lola with only one oh at

1338
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 3: the beginning, wow wow yeah.

1339
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 4: Okay, and you can find me at vipeire Bitch on Instagram.

1340
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 3: And trust me, he's on social media to guys, look

1341
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: us up. All right, here we go. Okay, all right,

1342
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 3: thank you so much for listening.

1343
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 5: You guys.

1344
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 4: We want you to just remember this week to follow

1345
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 4: your guy, watch out for red flags, and never ever

1346
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 4: trust me hie.

1347
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 6: In an unpredictable world, creating a stable coin that stands

1348
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 6: apart isn't easy. It requires experience, adaptation, and a commitment

1349
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 6: to highest standards. But when you get it right, you

1350
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 6: get ripple USD, a stable coin driven by years of

1351
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 6: experience and supplied by a trusted, regulated issuer. Introducing Ripple

1352
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 6: USD stability shaped by experience, availability, dependent on jurisdiction