1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 2: I'll that for me.

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: I'm a man, I'm forty.

4
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,079
Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

5
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?

6
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Edo State is that? Whoo whoo?

7
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: And no, Dan and Tie.

8
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 3: Dan Rubenstein, welcome back to the show My Good Friend,

9
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 3: A little something.

10
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 2: Different on today's episode. Am I right? You are right?

11
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 2: Everybody who has clicked to listen or review knows that

12
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 2: Chuck Closterman is coming on, author of the new book

13
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,159
Speaker 2: entitled Football. Longtime pop culture writer, has written about all

14
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 2: sorts of things, has written fiction, but football has always

15
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,519
Speaker 2: been a big deal to him. If you've listened to

16
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 2: him on podcasts, if you read any of his books,

17
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 2: and he is out and about talking about his new book.

18
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 2: And we figured, and we knew this going in that

19
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: he's just a major college football head. And so I

20
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 2: had listened to him on a number of different shows

21
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,600
Speaker 2: and a lot of what he talks aout his football

22
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 2: as a sport and football as it's played in the NFL.

23
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,959
Speaker 2: But we wanted to, I think dig deep on the

24
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,479
Speaker 2: college aspect of his brain.

25
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I mean we're kind of starting a little

26
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 3: bit of a book club here, now's the time to

27
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 3: do it. It's true, it's the dead of the off season.

28
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 3: It's cold, it's snowy, at least here it is. So

29
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 3: if we're going to talk about bigger picture themes with

30
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 3: big name authors and guests, now will be the time

31
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 3: to do it.

32
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,960
Speaker 2: So I'm going to hold this up.

33
00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,399
Speaker 3: You'll see it during the interview, like, here's the book.

34
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 3: It's a nice little sheen to it. It feels very distinguished.

35
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 3: I went through it this weekend. I picked it up

36
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,600
Speaker 3: on Friday, and I ripped through the whole thing this

37
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 3: weekend as it was snowing outside. It's a quick read.

38
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,399
Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun, and it's clear not just

39
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 3: that Chuck Closterman is a football fan, not just that

40
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 3: he's a college football fan. Dude's a football sicko, which

41
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 3: totally computes for you and I.

42
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it absolutely does.

43
00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: No.

44
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 2: He's open and willing and enthusiastic about mactionin on Tuesday nights.

45
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: He is he has lots of thoughts about everything he's

46
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 2: watched over the past, you know, forty fifty years. It's uh,

47
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 2: it's great and I can't wait to get into it

48
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 2: with him, and it evoked a lot of questions and

49
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 2: invoked a lot of like opinions. I didn't realize I

50
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 2: needed to I didn't need to have, but opinions I

51
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,240
Speaker 2: was forming while reading the book. It's a really good read,

52
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 2: even if it's just a few pages before bed or

53
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 2: on the toilet or what it really it's fast, it's

54
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 2: great and very excited to have him on.

55
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many times going through this

56
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 3: I sort of stopped, looked out the window as it

57
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 3: was snowing, and ruminated on the words that I just read,

58
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,800
Speaker 3: which in my opinion, is one of the signs of

59
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 3: it being a good book. So I would encourage her

60
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 3: body to check it out. It's Football by Chuck Kloserman.

61
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 3: We're going to talk through all of this, or at

62
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 3: least as much as we can, over the next hour

63
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 3: or so. If you're new here, welcome on in Hit

64
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 3: follow hit subscript if you like what you hear. Twice

65
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 3: a week all throughout the off season, Dan and I

66
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,920
Speaker 3: talking all things college football. Every now and again, take

67
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 3: a little bit of a left turn, do something different.

68
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 3: But this is by a large college football show. We

69
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 3: will continue on throughout the remainder of the off season,

70
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 3: at which point we'll switch over to three a week

71
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 3: once things get a little bit bigger in the window

72
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 3: of course, going out to overballers dot com if you

73
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 3: want to further support, directly support what Dan and I

74
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,799
Speaker 3: do out on our Patreon.

75
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 2: By the way, and on that note, Ty, this is

76
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 2: just us. We don't have fancy producers behind the scenes.

77
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: We don't have pas, we don't have interns. We have

78
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 2: a very very dedicated group of listeners and viewers. But

79
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 2: this nonsense is created exclusively by the two handsome gentlemen

80
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 2: you are looking at or listening to right now. And

81
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 2: so any support, even if it's just hitting that subscriber

82
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 2: or follow, does go a long way. So it does. Yeah,

83
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 2: we are this is This is all elbow grease and

84
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 2: chicken wire and duct tape and I guess diffuse lights.

85
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 2: It's good, diffuse light, Ty, you look very good today.

86
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,000
Speaker 3: It's it's a wonder that the duct tape and chicken

87
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 3: wire is still holding after like seventeen years of.

88
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 2: Doing the show. But here we are. Yeah, we made it.

89
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 2: This is what we do. This is we pour everything

90
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 2: we have into it, whether it looks like it or

91
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't. All right, joining us now. He is the

92
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 2: author of twelve books.

93
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,040
Speaker 3: He has written for everyone from Esquire to ESPN, to

94
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 3: New York Times magazine and just this weekend. While reading

95
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 3: his book, I learned he was also a high school

96
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 3: punter who averaged forty two yards per kick and practiced

97
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 3: punting over a barn.

98
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 2: Chuck Klosterman, welcome to the solid verbal. How are you.

99
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 1: It's great to be here or there. Look at it.

100
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,600
Speaker 2: Forty two yards per kick is not bad. It's nothing.

101
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,919
Speaker 1: You know, it was interesting, there was there is a

102
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 1: sort of a caveat to that, which is I did

103
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 1: realize that a lot of high school kids don't want

104
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 1: to feel the ball. They only want to feel the ball.

105
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,040
Speaker 1: It's a high spiral, and if you kick a line drive,

106
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 1: they will just let it go. So there is a

107
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,600
Speaker 1: spit of deception with that. I was not like, I

108
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 1: was not booming these ray eye kicks.

109
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 2: A rugby style kicker.

110
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, I mean, and not always. But I

111
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: just realized that it's high school kids don't like fielding punts.

112
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 1: They're not comfortable doing it. You know. We had a

113
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 1: good punt coverage teams, so.

114
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't have the advanced metrics to measure

115
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 2: your hangtime.

116
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 1: Nobody high school kids don't like calling for kids. They're

117
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: not comfortable with that. I can understand why it's a

118
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 1: complicated job when you're sixteen.

119
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's so much nuanced now in the college

120
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 3: punting game, all these different styles and formations, and we

121
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,360
Speaker 3: can get into some of the quirks why college over

122
00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 3: pro that type of thing as we go through here.

123
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 3: But punting I didn't plan for this, but punting is

124
00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,720
Speaker 3: very much one of those things.

125
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,280
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean just the whole existence of the University

126
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 1: of Iowa. It's like like a punting sort of hotbed.

127
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: But also, yeah, they guy the rugby style, like you know,

128
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,839
Speaker 1: guys from other countries who like they take the nine

129
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,279
Speaker 1: steps in one direction and then kind of kick almost

130
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: in a soccer style fashion, you know, directional punting and

131
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,240
Speaker 1: all that, and then just but also in another sense,

132
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 1: punting has become slightly less meaningful because teams go forward

133
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: so often now that having the punter who can really

134
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,600
Speaker 1: trap you in the old coffee corner and that doesn't

135
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:30,480
Speaker 1: come up very much.

136
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,280
Speaker 2: Is that something you enjoy lost art? Is that something

137
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 2: you enjoy the more? Going forward?

138
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,280
Speaker 1: On fourth I think everyone does, right, Yeah, I mean

139
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 1: I think everybody. If you said, what are changes that

140
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 1: have happened to football over the last ten years, I

141
00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 1: think there would be very few people who would complain

142
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 1: about team's decision to constantly go forward on fourth down,

143
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 1: even though at this point I think it probably is

144
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 1: at times detrimental because they're using the analytics of the

145
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 1: past when the only time teams went forward on fourth

146
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 1: down is when they had a clear advantage or they

147
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 1: had to. So I think ten years from now, I

148
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: would not be surprised at all. In fact, I'll predict

149
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: it that ten years from now there'll be a swing

150
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,360
Speaker 1: back where teams will be saying, like, we need to

151
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: punt more. Punting actually is the is the better move

152
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,120
Speaker 1: if it's fourth and two as you're on forty or

153
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: whatever like that will change.

154
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 2: The rebirth of Kirk Farns.

155
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 3: He's coming out of retirement at that point to talk

156
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 3: more about punting.

157
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 1: So look, I've got the book.

158
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 2: I held it up at the start of this. But

159
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 2: it's a beautiful book.

160
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 3: It says football playing and simple football right on the

161
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 3: front cover. You say in this book that it is

162
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 3: not a love letter to football. It is also not

163
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 3: fully an obituary to football. For me, this lives somewhere

164
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 3: kind of in the creative space in between. I'm curious

165
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 3: how you would describe this book football, Your new book

166
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 3: just came out last month. How you would describe it

167
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 3: to our listeners?

168
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so often when somebody, particularly if they're

169
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 1: not a traditional sports writer, if they write a book

170
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 1: about sports, say like when Spike Lee did a book

171
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 1: about the NBA or whatever, you see this. Actually it

172
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 1: happens quite a bit with basketball and sometimes with baseball.

173
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: When George Will did his baseball book, they always get

174
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: called a love letter to the game. And while I

175
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,640
Speaker 1: do love football, I'm not writing a love letter to it.

176
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 1: Like I don't want Like, that's not what I don't

177
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: feel like there's any I have no desire to do this,

178
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: and I don't think there's any need for someone to

179
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 1: get a book that will sort of validate their deep

180
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,640
Speaker 1: emotional relationship to the game. The emotional relationship is there

181
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 1: just by virtue of your existence and the game's existence.

182
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 1: I think, what if I was describing what this book

183
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 1: was just you know, I've thought about football unconsciously forty

184
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 1: five years, you know, and probably very sort of analytically

185
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 1: and consciously for twenty and this is just my attempts

186
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 1: are to describe sort of the complex but very profound

187
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: relationship that I have with it and why it is

188
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: so reflective of particularly the last half of the twentieth

189
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 1: century in the United States. I think that if somebody

190
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,960
Speaker 1: was trying to describe what the United States was like

191
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty to two thousand, and they couldn't use

192
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 1: Kern events. It's had to use an abstract idea. The

193
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,599
Speaker 1: evolution of football is probably the best choice. Now. I

194
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,679
Speaker 1: don't know if that will be the case moving forward

195
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: in the twenty first century, but certainly, you know, for

196
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 1: the lives that we kind of grew up in, and

197
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,320
Speaker 1: also just you know, football is always in some ways

198
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 1: tied to the past. There is something sort of you know,

199
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 1: kind of you know, traditional and conservative coded to it

200
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 1: that you're always thinking about the past when you're thinking

201
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 1: about football. It kind of pulls the past to the present.

202
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 3: There is a line near the end of this book

203
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 3: that really stuck with me. Quote it consumes too much

204
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 3: of my memory and too much of my time from

205
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 3: late August until February, my whole life revolves around trying

206
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,520
Speaker 3: to see football games that carry no personal significance. If

207
00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 3: I didn't have a family, I'd watch thirty hours of

208
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 3: football a week, an easy way to guarantee no new

209
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 3: family would ever be created.

210
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,319
Speaker 2: End quote.

211
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 3: We run a college football show here, Chuck. That line

212
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,320
Speaker 3: really hits pretty close to home, because it really is.

213
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 1: The college game is the X factor in this It's

214
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 1: those Mac games, It's games on Friday nights. Now. It's

215
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: just it's it's my life is so much easier now

216
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 1: the football is over. Like I'm the football game so

217
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 1: much easier now. I can do anything. My kid wants

218
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 1: me to take them to playing magic gathering at some

219
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: store on Sunday. I was like, I got unlimited time. Sure,

220
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,000
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's like, it is weird how football

221
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,120
Speaker 1: and my relationship to it. And I'm guessing for you

222
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,680
Speaker 1: guys too, and a lot of the people listening to

223
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 1: this podcast, it almost does become like an anchor on

224
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: our ability to do normal things. And the maddening part

225
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: is that it would be one thing if I was

226
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 1: seeing these games and they were burned into my mind,

227
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 1: and I watch these games and like two days later,

228
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,120
Speaker 1: I can't even remember what I saw, but I know

229
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 1: that if the game on Tuesday I can't remember does

230
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 1: not mean I don't want to watch the game on

231
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 1: Thursday that I haven't seen yet.

232
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:25,120
Speaker 3: I wonder my question, though, is, given that statement, is

233
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 3: that confession sort of the real thesis of your book

234
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 3: not that football is dying, not that football is anything,

235
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 3: but instead that it has consumed people like us in

236
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 3: a way that's kind of unhealthy and and defensible.

237
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's an interesting theory. I don't agree

238
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 1: with it, but I can certainly understand someone reading that

239
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,199
Speaker 1: and taking that away. I mean, it's just sort of

240
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: a way to like, Okay, so you're writing a book

241
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: about football like this, and it's kind of a critical look, right,

242
00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: So so I'm talking about things that I love but

243
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 1: also a lot of the problems with it. And maybe

244
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: I feared that there was a sense that I was

245
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,959
Speaker 1: somehow acting as though I was detached from all this,

246
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,600
Speaker 1: that I was looking at this, but I didn't really

247
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 1: care because I like to sort of see myself as

248
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: sort of the Spock type figure who has no emotional

249
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 1: relationship to anything, and it is disturbing to me how

250
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 1: untrue that is with sports. But football in particular, you know,

251
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 1: is it is a strange thing, like it is. I

252
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 1: mentioned this in the book. It's like so often during

253
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 1: the fall and winter, somebody asked me, you know, we

254
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 1: should go out, you know, you're making a new friend

255
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 1: with somebody, or and like they'll and I'll be like, oh,

256
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,079
Speaker 1: we should go on Wednesday. I think I'm Wednesday, and

257
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I know that the likelihood

258
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,800
Speaker 1: of an interesting football game being on Wednesday is remote,

259
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 1: although even now there sometimes is. When I was growing up,

260
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 1: there was never like you couldn't play, you couldn't have

261
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,320
Speaker 1: high school football practice on Wednesday because it was like

262
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: church night or whatever. Now I very often will see

263
00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,839
Speaker 1: like a big time high school game being played on

264
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: a Wednesday, and it'll be on like ESPN two or whatever.

265
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,079
Speaker 1: Because I still I don't know. I mean, I'm guessing

266
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,679
Speaker 1: you guys are they of guys who also watched those

267
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: high school games sometimes when there's nothing else to watch,

268
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 1: or the ones they show in August before the season starts.

269
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's a I'd like someone asked me why

270
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: I do it. I couldn't even say why, but I

271
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 1: know that I do, you know.

272
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but you're also I think unique in

273
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 2: that you didn't grow up rooting for a huge college

274
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,520
Speaker 2: program because you had family ties or because you went

275
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 2: to a powerhouse program or a semi powerhouse program, and

276
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,840
Speaker 2: you still seem to watch especially college football through the

277
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,280
Speaker 2: lens of like this is the best TV show ever?

278
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: Right that?

279
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,880
Speaker 1: Okay, that's true, but also used to Yeah, please one

280
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 1: thing jump in. I mean I kind of did though

281
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 1: in a sense because I grew up sixty five miles

282
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,720
Speaker 1: south of Fargo, right north dakost state was covered like

283
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: a major program, but true media like it was. They

284
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 1: were still Division two at the time, weren't even I

285
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,959
Speaker 1: mean now the division all the way up together. Yeah,

286
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 1: but it's it felt that way, you know. So I so,

287
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 1: I guess they did have that relationship. But in the

288
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 1: larger sense what you're saying is true. I mean, the

289
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 1: Vikings were the local team, they were three hours away.

290
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 1: I did follow. I guess our family did follow Nebraska,

291
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: which you know, the Huskers weren't that far away, but

292
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,360
Speaker 1: yet that almost seemed more ideological. Like my dad loved

293
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: tom Osborne, we all my I love the option. My

294
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,400
Speaker 1: whole family loved the option. We had sort of like

295
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 1: my my dad, my brothers didn't like Oklahoma. They didn't

296
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 1: like Barry Switzards. You know, they kind of saw that

297
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 1: it was a really corrupt program.

298
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 2: Right.

299
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: So it almost like people always point this out to

300
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 1: me that like that, you know, I don't have this

301
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 1: kind of like a relationship with my friend Michael Weiner

302
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: grew up in State college, so like that his whole

303
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 1: life is based around Penn State. Like it's almost you know,

304
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 1: his dad worked there. He has almost no memory of football.

305
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't involve that. I don't have that, like, you know,

306
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: I I do have more sort of separation.

307
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 2: So what do you think you're missing now if anything,

308
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 2: or what do you think your advantage is now? If

309
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 2: you do have that separation and you are not you know,

310
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 2: on a an Oklahoma State message board at you know,

311
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,720
Speaker 2: one am, or you're not you know, looking at a

312
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 2: recruiting class come together on a you know, a message

313
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 2: board or something like that, do you feel like you

314
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 2: are missing something or do you feel like you have

315
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 2: a built in advantage?

316
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: I would say the latter, And this came up more

317
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: often when I was like, you know, they say strictly

318
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 1: like a rock critic and a film critic. People would say, like,

319
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 1: is there an advantage to coming from this farm, from

320
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: this tiny town in North Dakota. There was one advantage,

321
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: which is that the only sort of media that got

322
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 1: to me was mass media. So I be in a

323
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 1: better position to say right about something like guns n'

324
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 1: roses or something, because it's like that to me was

325
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: as interesting as culture. God. It might work the same

326
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 1: way a little bit with football, in the sense that

327
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 1: I have always sort of viewed it through a national lens,

328
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: which now has become the way most people follow sports,

329
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 1: like their regional quality. And the part of the reason

330
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 1: now and kind of ironically why I care so much

331
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: about college sports was that regional quality to me became

332
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 1: more interesting as I got older, like sort of the

333
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 1: diversity between how teams in the West Coast played to

334
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 1: post the SEC and like and you know, the sort

335
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: of the interesting kind of kid who got recruited to

336
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: play in the Big Ten as opposed to the Big

337
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: Eight and the Big Pelvence. And that does seem to

338
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 1: be kind of I mean, I just I'm sure you

339
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 1: guys talk about this all the time, and it's like

340
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 1: it's just kind of slipping away from us, you know,

341
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 1: but that did become at one point when I started

342
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: having an awareness in a weird way that colleges meant

343
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: more than just the sports team. Like, for the longest time,

344
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 1: if you'd ask me, just like, what's Syracuse University, I

345
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 1: would have only known them as like a basketball team.

346
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 1: I would have no idea of anything else about the school.

347
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,280
Speaker 1: Then when you start learning about these schools and the

348
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: kind of people who go there, that when you're watching

349
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,719
Speaker 1: a college game, I would say Old Miss and Mississippi

350
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: State in a sense, you're rooting for or against the

351
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,400
Speaker 1: kind of person you imagine going there. I mean, these

352
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: are the things that make college sports so fascinating, and

353
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: I do feel I fear that we're at the very

354
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: tail end of that, that that's just about over, and

355
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how I'm gonna feel about it when

356
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 1: that ends.

357
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 2: But there's I mean, look, there are people who make

358
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,160
Speaker 2: fun of fan bases for how they smell, right, There's

359
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,399
Speaker 2: like the LSU fans smell like corn dogs. I have

360
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,679
Speaker 2: no idea where it started. I have no idea if

361
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 2: it's coded for something else. But that's like an active

362
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 2: thing that people have opinions of and I think it's

363
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 2: interesting because I grew up the same way that my

364
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 2: parents weren't, you know, huge fans of their Alma Maters team.

365
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 2: My dad went to a small college that I couldn't

366
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 2: watch in southern California, and my mom didn't care about

367
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 2: college football, and so I was watching the national games

368
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 2: and I sort of treated it when I was, you know,

369
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 2: eleven years old or something that I was sort of

370
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 2: figuring out who these superheroes were, right that when you're

371
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 2: watching a Florida State team from the mid nineties, or

372
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,199
Speaker 2: a Penn State team or a UCLA team, because that

373
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 2: was local to me. That was the lens through which

374
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 2: I grew to love the sport, and I'm wondering maybe

375
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 2: who those superheroes were.

376
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,119
Speaker 1: For you, well, okay to ask, how old are you guys?

377
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 2: So I'm forty two, ties a year or two old.

378
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,200
Speaker 2: How old are you now, tie forty three?

379
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm fifty three. And this is one of the

380
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: weird situations where our age difference does actually probably play

381
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 1: a role.

382
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 2: In this totally.

383
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,959
Speaker 1: I can remember just before the big switch happened, and

384
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 1: it was very difficult, like there was two college football

385
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 1: games a week usually, so not only one, you know,

386
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: So I guess in some sense, if you weren't, if

387
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: you didn't have that local relationship where the game was

388
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: on the radio and you could like watch the coaches show,

389
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: that was always Like for North Dakota State, that was

390
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 1: a big deal on Sunday night, I would watch the

391
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,160
Speaker 1: ten thirty Coaches Show or whatever. But for the ever,

392
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: you know, like for me, you would I would typically

393
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: be they show a big ten game and then sometimes

394
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 1: we'd get like a packed ted gamer that pack twelve.

395
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 2: No, but I remember that. I remember having like a

396
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 2: CBS game and maybe on ABC games it.

397
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 1: Was non ESPN. ESPN was like auto racing and workouts

398
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,439
Speaker 1: stuff like that all and then all of a sudden,

399
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: it's just the switch completely flipped and then it was

400
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 1: sort of everywhere. So in the early days of my

401
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: memory of college football, I was heavily affected by the

402
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: Heisman Race. Like the Heisman Race was huge thing. Like

403
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,400
Speaker 1: I guess it's still in some ways that it has

404
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 1: hung on as kind of the one of these postseason

405
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 1: awards that still does matter in a way a lot

406
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 1: of the other ones don't anymore. Like, you know, people

407
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,640
Speaker 1: talk a lot about who the NBA MVP is going

408
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,439
Speaker 1: to be and all this. You know, there was a

409
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: big dispace respute this year where like should it be

410
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: Stafford or Drake Mays? But nobody really cares about those

411
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: in the same way because they're not like you can

412
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: win those awards, Like Derek Crow's won m VP and

413
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: you know he may not. He probably will make the

414
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, but I don't think he has yet.

415
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 1: Whereas the Heisman almost made your career already, like you

416
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: had a successful career that happened. So I used to

417
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: follow that a lot. You'd get the an issue of

418
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated before the season that was like super thick

419
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: and it was half football and half pro and you

420
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 1: know I would read that. I would The magazines were

421
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: a big like all like the like the like this,

422
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: like this, like that guy steal that got his Guide

423
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: to Football or whatever, like yeah, yeah, with the Agate type.

424
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: I think he works at Ohio. So you asked me,

425
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: like what guy specifically?

426
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, like I assume that that was sort of

427
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,439
Speaker 2: an entry point for you because obviously, aside from the

428
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: North Dakota State and maybe Nebraska thing, if you are

429
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: seeing a game or two games, it's it's probably like Okay,

430
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: this running back is exceptional or this linebacker is everywhere.

431
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: For me, the period like the Heisman race between Hirschel

432
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: Walker or John Elway, I have a lot of memory

433
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: of that that those and and it was so odd

434
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: how that how it was covered in the like you know,

435
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: people would say like, well, John Elway probably can't win

436
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: the Heisman because like nobody can see the games on

437
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: the West Coast, and nobody thought that was that shocking,

438
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: Like that would be so unacceptable. Now, like if some

439
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: got said he didn't vote for somebody who played for

440
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: Oregon or whatever, and he's like, well, the games are

441
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: on so late. I did like that would be it

442
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: was it was completely acceptable not to have to see everything.

443
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: You could just follow it through these.

444
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: Other means, you know, But that was that was a

445
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: thing even more recently than I think people realize.

446
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey, they said that, right, Christian mc palmer.

447
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 3: Carson Palmer is another one that comes to mind.

448
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh And then you know, there was just

449
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: odd of these, like you know, when when Oklahoma State

450
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: was on probation, like you never saw Barry Sanders play,

451
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: but you could follow him statistically and the statistics were

452
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: just bonkers, you know, so it was like you are

453
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: almost imagining what these games would have been like. That

454
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,239
Speaker 1: was a big part of it in general. It was

455
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: reading about these guys, seeing the occasional highlight, maybe never

456
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: seeing a game they played until the bowl season, but

457
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: sort of imagining what they were like, imagining what the

458
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: game was like. Like we would go out at recess

459
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: or whatever and play that we were these guys that

460
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: we never actually saw. It was very bizarre, but it's

461
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: happened all the time, you know, where there would be

462
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: like some quarterback that we were just all fascinated by,

463
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: but it was never on television, so we just sort

464
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: of imagined what he was like.

465
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: Do you remember, by the way, who owned the sort

466
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: of preseason All American list. Do you remember the big

467
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: outlet that was like these are Playboy. Yeah, that's where

468
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: we were in the mid nineties, so.

469
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: I was a kid, so I couldn't actually see it.

470
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: People would on there, you know, and then there was

471
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: it was It was interesting. At the beginning of the

472
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: year it was Playboy. The end of the year was

473
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: Bob Hope. Yes, Bob Hope had that you would bring

474
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: him out. It was sort of like you know that

475
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: was it was a strange, sort of like it was

476
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: a nudity or like a guy who was popular in

477
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: the forties. As I use, it's traffic.

478
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 3: The other component to this, Chuck, is the weird rivalries

479
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: and traditions that college football has. And I mean we're

480
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 3: biased here, obviously we're pro the college game as opposed

481
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: to the NFL, but you know, we talk about guys

482
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 3: as if superheroes, We talk about quirks and punting, but

483
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: truly the traditions and we you know, we can say

484
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: pageantry if we want, but that aspect of college football,

485
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 3: at least for us, I think, is what truly gives

486
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 3: it a soul and why in our view it is

487
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: better than the pro game, which maybe is a little

488
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 3: bit more buttoned up, a little bit more corporate. We

489
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: have taken emails about this countless times over the years,

490
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 3: but I'm curious to get your thoughts comparing the college

491
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: and the pro game. What is the biggest difference for

492
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 3: you in which do you prefer?

493
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so what I was growing up, This is true

494
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: for football and for basketball definitely. And you listen to

495
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: older guys talk like my dad, my older brothers and

496
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: their friends and stuff. It was definitely seen as more

497
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: sophisticated to be into college sports. They kind of saw

498
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: pro sports for kids. Like you know, this was really

499
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: true in basketball, but also true in football. It just

500
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: seemed like the football games mattered more. It's very strange

501
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: why that is, because it's like now, say, like my

502
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: kid comes in and like you're watching the game, and

503
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: he's like, the games, everyone's like, they were playing for

504
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: a jug? Why were they playing It's like, it's hard

505
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: to it's a hard thing to describe if you aren't

506
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: born into it. Like it was just like there was

507
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: all that stuff like playing for jugs and anything weird.

508
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: I hatchet whatever, the statue of a pig or whatever

509
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: like that. I love all those things, right, but they

510
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: now do seem very archaic and very distance because like

511
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: the world that we live in now, it's the idea

512
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: of having a good year and winning a bowl game

513
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: like could get your coach fired. You're supposed to get

514
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: to the playoffs and win the national title. It's the

515
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 1: only thing that matters. So the idea that somehow a

516
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: game for a jug matters does seem crazy to any

517
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: modern person. But college football is not for modern people,

518
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: which football is for people who are still kind of

519
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: living in the past, you know, in the best possible way,

520
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: not nostalgic, necessarily, because nostalgias like injecting your emotion into

521
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: something and getting a false meaning. It's just like it

522
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: was interesting when sports weren't that way where it was,

523
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, that we just sort of accepted the possibility

524
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: that if the best teams in the country, if one

525
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: was in the Big Ten and one was in the SEC,

526
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: they just weren't going to play each other. They were

527
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: gonna go to the Rose Bowl and the Sugar Bowl,

528
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: and then we just have to talk it out, you know,

529
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: and even if you lost the argument, you kind of won.

530
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: It was almost like like you could feel as though

531
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: there was actually felt like there was more success to

532
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: be shared because there were other ways to be successful.

533
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: There was also just a sense I don't know how

534
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: this is a weird thing to say, but part of

535
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: me feels are always felt strange, especially as I got older,

536
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: where I was watching a guy in the if I'm

537
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: watching the NFL, like he's in his mid thirties, he's

538
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: a millionaire, and he's still doing something that's kind of

539
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: like a kid's game and he's being controlled by his coach,

540
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: and his coach is sort of like he's dealing with men.

541
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: Like something about the age that college football players are

542
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: seems so much more sensible to me, you know, in

543
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: a weird way. Now this is changing because with all

544
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: the NIL money and all this and the portal stuff.

545
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I'm guessing that you guys

546
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: probably discussed this. I don't listen to you every time,

547
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: so I guess you talk a lot about the portal

548
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: in the NIL stuff. What is your macro take on that?

549
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: In general? How do you feel about those two things

550
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: if you had to, if somebody said, give me your

551
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: two cents take on this?

552
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: There are there two things being true at once. Right,

553
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: that it's sensible that with all the money in the sport,

554
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 2: that players are able to party dissipate. Right, that they're

555
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: able to participate, be it with revenue sharing from TV

556
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: deals or be it from you know, NIL deals, which

557
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: were obviously like I don't know if this was your

558
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: word and your book, but it was like those nil

559
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 2: the concept of NIL was perverted almost immediately by collectives.

560
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not sensible now, I would say the

561
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: way it works now since not a word I would.

562
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: Use, right, And so I think the thing that is

563
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: bad for the sport is not necessarily that players can

564
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: participate and make money, be it off of commercials or

565
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: just are able to capitalize on their value or whatever.

566
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: It's that there's a nomadic nature to so many players

567
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: that you don't feel the same I don't feel the

568
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: same kind of connection if I'm rooting for you know,

569
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: I root for the organ Ducks, and that their defensive

570
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: line has a guy from Houston, has a guy from

571
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: South Carolina, has a guy like those schools, the University

572
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: of Houston, the University of South Carolina, you know, Michigan

573
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: State or something, and then they're there for a year

574
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: and then they're off to the NFL. And I always

575
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: appreciate and I think this about college basketball too, is

576
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: like when a guy's there for a few years and

577
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: you get to know who he is, who he isn't like,

578
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: oh man, this huge offensive line is going to run

579
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: over this you know, shorter, speedy defensive end who's like

580
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: a pass rush specialist. And so it's a bummer. It's

581
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: a bummer to me that the names come and go

582
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: so frequently it seems like.

583
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: We should no longer use the term program when discussing

584
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: these right institutions, because there's no way you can have

585
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: a program if it's going to be completely reinvented every season, right,

586
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, Like I you know, I follow a Notre Dame,

587
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: and I just get this sense that going forward, every

588
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: year it's going to be a graduate level quarterback coming

589
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: from a school that has some sort of kind of

590
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: like academic foundation that it seems reasonable they awake or

591
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: duke or whatever. Like that's just how it's going to

592
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: be now, Like it won't be every single year, but

593
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: most years it does seem all even more so, like

594
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: the NFL has way more stability now than college sports totally,

595
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: and that is just makes I don't know, I hate that.

596
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: So the thing that I wonder about and we talk

597
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: about and I feel free to jump in here, is

598
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: on a certain level, if college football wants to be

599
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: the most mainstream possible sport, it can be right turning

600
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: itself over to TV money and expanded playoffs and expanded

601
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: conferences all the name of TV money. The fact that

602
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: it's a sport that you kind of have to know

603
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: how NIL works you kind of have to know how

604
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: the transfer portal works. You kind of have to know

605
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: how the playoffs expanding or not expanding work, and what

606
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: the committee's job is, and how the playoff is structured,

607
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: and then how recruiting works, how the portal works. When

608
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: all of this happens, that there are two signing days, right,

609
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: there's a barrier to entry with college football that's extremely high.

610
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: On a certain level, I think it's a bug, right

611
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: that it's hard to teach a new fan how this

612
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: sport operates. And on a certain level it's a feature

613
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: because it rewards you if you're enough of a dork

614
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: to really dig into it, like anything like right, like

615
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: if you're a fan of European soccer, if you're a

616
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: fan of a band, if you're a fan of like

617
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: you said, magic the gathering, it rewards you for putting

618
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: in the time. So feature or bug is my question

619
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: to you.

620
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: Well, it's a good point, actually it because there is

621
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: a there is I guess, almost like this kind of

622
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: perverse enjoyment into knowing how these things are working out. Yeah,

623
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like, Okay, is it

624
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: rewarding to know that, like North of Maldin NOI is

625
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: now in the you know whatever. Yeah, Sacramento State is

626
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: joining the MAC. I guess it is what The change

627
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: has happened so often though, that it's almost like a

628
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: you're I'm trying to think of what an equivalent would

629
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: be that that you keep learning things and the information

630
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: immediately changes. I mean, conference realignment maybe it is was

631
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: the biggest element of this or whatever? You know. I

632
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: remember one year when like Boise State was considering joining

633
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the Big East, and it was like, the East is

634
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: truly big if it includes Idle or whatever, you know,

635
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: doesn't even seem weird. We don't even factor that in,

636
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, like you would never hear someone say like

637
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: it is bizarre that SMU is on the Atlantic coast.

638
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean technically, I guess there's the but you know,

639
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: or like cal or whatever, like we've just given up

640
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: on that, like the re like the idea that somehow

641
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: geography matters at all, and so you see like is

642
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: it could that be a feature? Could it be more?

643
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: Could you look at it and say like, well, this

644
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: is more interesting now because every year it's like reshuffling

645
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: the entire deck. I guess that mean I don't feel

646
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right

647
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: about this. But all these things, it's like change is inevitable,

648
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: but rarely feels good. Like even if the change is positive,

649
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: if you're really used to something and you like something

650
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: like the change, Like it was baseball, for example, it

651
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: was a great World Series this last year. That was

652
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: I think the first time when there was sort of

653
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: a kind of a collective, kind of catholic recognition that's like, oh,

654
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: I guess that pitchclock really was smart, Like it really

655
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: did change everything at me. Like it took a bunch

656
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: of years to realize that there might be a time

657
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: when you're saying what you're saying is true. It might

658
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: become that like like college football becomes this thing only

659
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: for the obsessive, like only for the person who won.

660
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: But I I it's tough because there's also an element

661
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: of college football that really appeals to the person who

662
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: only knows one thing, which is that like I root

663
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: for the Tennessee volunteers. That's just that's that's like that

664
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. That's all they know. They don't

665
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: want to follow anything else about this. Now, if we

666
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: get to this point, which I think is inevitable where

667
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: the kids playing won't even have to go to the schools.

668
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: I know this is going to happen where it's like

669
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: Tennessee's quarterback just represents the volunteers. You know, he doesn't

670
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: he's a paid employee or whatever. Will this person who

671
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: is just sort of like kind of reflexively roots for

672
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: the volunteers because they grew up outside of a Knoxville

673
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. Will they keep going? I think college football

674
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: is sort of banking on the fact that they will

675
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: that that that person is not that I don't want

676
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: to say, not that discerning, but like won't necessarily see

677
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: a huge difference between you know, Auburn just giving a

678
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: guy a contract and like whatever it was for Brent

679
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: Fullwood or whatever whatever he was getting when he was there.

680
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: You know, they were like, well it's corrupt. Then now

681
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: it's just like transparent.

682
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: I think I think we're already kind of there with

683
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: the portal. Right, if a guy shows up in March

684
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: and he goes to school from August until December, then

685
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: to Claire's right, if if it's one final season at

686
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: Florida State or at Oregon or Notre Dame, that you

687
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 2: know it was I think it was. Was it Steve Smith.

688
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to get this wrong. Maybe it was

689
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: Chad Johnson at Oregon State, Like he was there for

690
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: ten weeks or fourteen weeks and he didn't go to class,

691
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: he didn't need to stay eligible, and then he went

692
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: to the NFL, and so I think it's just formalizing.

693
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: Some of that quarterback for Miami say that, like before

694
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: the National.

695
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, they graduated two years.

696
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not going to class. Were talking like yeah,

697
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: like it was an absurd question, And in some ways

698
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: there was an absurd question because if he had said, like, well, yeah,

699
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, I have psych on Monday, Wednesday and Friday

700
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: from days like you bed have been like who cares,

701
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: Like you're not, it's not you're going to apply this

702
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: to your career.

703
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: I think people will say in April that it has

704
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: ruined college football for them if they're no longer students,

705
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: and then come Saturday in September they'll watch and route Well.

706
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: It's just it's it is fascinating in the sense that like, Okay,

707
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: so in the short term, like Indiana winning the national

708
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: title this year, I would say in the short term

709
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: that was good for the sport. It was interesting. It

710
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: was surprising everybody knew one of these teams, one of

711
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: these schools was going to really take advantage of the

712
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: portal nil stuff. I did not think it would be Indiana.

713
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: That would not have been my guests, but it did,

714
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, for the people of Indiana, I'm sure it

715
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: was incredibly amazing, you know. And that's also, by chance,

716
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: the largest I think alumni based in the country. So

717
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: it almost worked out perfectly. But I don't know if

718
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: if somebody, if I could like, look at you a

719
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: crystal ball and they'll be like, here are the next

720
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: twenty five teams who are going to win the national

721
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: title and that's like, oh Liberty, Oh, like North Carolina State. Oh,

722
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I don't think I would be

723
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: jacked about that because in a sense, there is sort

724
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: of for me, like an intellectual security in the sense

725
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: that like, well, they'll be down years, but Texas will

726
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: always be good, you know, Florida will always be good,

727
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: Georgia will always be good. Usc will always be good.

728
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: And it was almost, you know, now, like the idea

729
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: of say Indiana winning the national title in say nineteen

730
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: eighty eight. That would have been an insane thing. It

731
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: would have been so insane. It's like it almost doesn't

732
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: seem that it could possibly happen. Now, anyone can win,

733
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: really literally, anyone could win if they put enough money

734
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: into it, and their coach and there or whatever you

735
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: look at, their GM or whatever Jerman they're using is

736
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: a good enough evaluator of talent. You know, any school

737
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: could do that. I don't. I don't know. I don't

738
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 1: that that seems I realized that's more democratic or whatever,

739
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: but it also seems much less meaningful and romantic use it.

740
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: Well, and it's it's also sort of a contrarian view

741
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 3: of where I think maybe the national narrative has gone,

742
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,479
Speaker 3: at least amid the emails that we see coming into us.

743
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: Though so much of the talk is about the Indiana's,

744
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: the Vanderbilts schools like that that have found a way

745
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: to sort of rise up and either win the national

746
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: championship or be on the cusp of the playoffs. There

747
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 3: is certainly a romanticism about that that people gravitate towards

748
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 3: and want to write to us about. But I think

749
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,479
Speaker 3: what you are speaking to is also the need for

750
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 3: blue bloods.

751
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: Well, not just that, but what you're talking about those emails.

752
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're getting them. It's weird. It's like they're

753
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: sending you emails about the present as if it is

754
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: still the past. That it is incredible to think of

755
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt challenging for the SEC but there why would that

756
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: be the case now? I mean like there was a time,

757
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: and I've said this on other podcasts where it's like,

758
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's a kid being recruited and Nick Saban

759
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: or wherever goes into his kitchen and talks to his

760
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: parents and says like, look like your kid might not

761
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: play right away. He might just plan special teams when

762
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: he was a sophomore. You know, I'm gonna be tough

763
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: on him in a way that you can't, but I'm

764
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: gonna make him do a different kind of person and

765
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: he's gonna have this experience the University of Alabama that's

766
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: special and just divirtue of being on this team. It

767
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: will be meaningful and that that could still happen today.

768
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: But then the parent would just say like, well, okay,

769
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: but Vanderbilt's offering in five hundred and sixty grand right away,

770
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: like what's your number? So it doesn't mean anything, man like,

771
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: like the tradition of these schools is almost just in

772
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: the mind of the person who still wants to pretend

773
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: that this hasn't changed. I mean, I know that in

774
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: some ways, it's like what I'm saying might seem like

775
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: too pessimistic and in a sense because what's happening on

776
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: the field didn't change that much. Like the games on

777
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: the field were still to me as good this year

778
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: as any of the past ten or whatever, like you know,

779
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: so that product maybe isn't being and maybe that's all

780
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: that really matters. As long as the product is the same.

781
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: All this other stuff is just like what we talk about.

782
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 1: But I don't know, Chuck.

783
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: One of the fears you speak to in the book

784
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: is that football will decline the way horse racing did

785
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: once people lose their personal connection, which I think we're

786
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: speaking to on some level with college football, with football

787
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: in general, that is when maybe we could see the

788
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: sport bottom out a little bit.

789
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Right.

790
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: So, Like, as I said, we can't even put a

791
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: number on how many emails we've gotten about this topic.

792
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 3: It's obviously been very popular. And they had conference realignment

793
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 3: and NIL and the transfer portal and we won't even

794
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 3: bring playoff expansion into this. But let's assume you are

795
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: right about this. Let's assume that football takes on the

796
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: same trajectory as horse racing did back at like the

797
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: turn of the century. Which side bottoms out first is

798
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 3: that college or is at the NFL?

799
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: I think probably college. I mean first will be high school,

800
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: and then it will be college, and then they'll but

801
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: they'll find a way, you know, the NFL will find

802
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: a way to sort of keep itself sort of you know,

803
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: like robust, like if they have to start if it

804
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: becomes like this European model where they have to have

805
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: camps for these kids, or it's like, you know, the

806
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: players will only come from certain parts of the country,

807
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: but in those parts football will just be like a

808
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: factory like machine, and the NFL will still find a

809
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: way to be able to put a product on the

810
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: field that, as far as we are concerned, is as

811
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: good or even better than the past, because the athletes

812
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: are getting better, their training is better, the technology is better.

813
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: But it's I think that the idea of playing high

814
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: school football will become a rarity unless you live in

815
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: certain states. As a consequence, college football will just sort

816
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: of become like a semi pro version of the NFL.

817
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: It will be almost indistinguishable because that and that's I

818
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,479
Speaker 1: think probably for guys like us, one of the things

819
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: that we kind of fear, which is that if this happens,

820
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: college will look like the NFL, where almost everyone that

821
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: runs the same sets, almost everyone runs versions of the

822
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: same place. And that the idea that there's just this

823
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, somebody like you know, Paul Johnson playing Mike

824
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: Leach or whatever like that could never happen. That the

825
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: way we know, we never have this kind of conflict.

826
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: So then I do think that the interest in college

827
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: football would then almost only become like a like a

828
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: manifestation of like, well, everybody at my school goes to

829
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: these games and we care about it or whatever, but

830
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: it's like it's it would almost be like a social experience.

831
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: So I do think that probably like the NFL will be,

832
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: the NFL will be the last version of football that

833
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: is still sort of the center of the monoculture. That

834
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: will be the last thing because they will do whatever

835
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,399
Speaker 1: they can to keep that alive, and they will have

836
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: the sort of financial support to kind of create that

837
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: illusion or sensation.

838
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: The first chapter in your book. I'm gonna hold it

839
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 3: up again. I really liked I like to cover of it.

840
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: Very distinguished looking Chuck.

841
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's supposed to look like like the old

842
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: book from football from the Leila. Yeah yeah, book from

843
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: the end of the nineteenth century.

844
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: That's no, there's definitely a nostalgic quality to I love it.

845
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: The first chapter is about TV, and you speak at

846
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 3: great length about how football as a TV sport is

847
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: almost unmatched. That it happened by accident. It doesn't seem

848
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 3: as though they engineered it specifically for television, but in

849
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: nearly every sense, football is better on TV than it

850
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: is watching, at least the game in person. Obviously, the

851
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 3: atmosphere of the crowd, the tailgating, all that stuff is

852
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 3: kind of in a class on to itself. I found

853
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: it super fascinating the way that you went through and

854
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: described how football kind of stands on its own relative

855
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 3: to its peers in the sports world.

856
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it really is, and it is accidental. Obviously,

857
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: football starts out with the Civil War. TV didn't exist yet.

858
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: When they were introducing TV, they did see it as

859
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: a way to show sports, although primarily boxing and baseball,

860
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: those are the two big ideas. But the way football

861
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: works that you know, with the stoppages of play, but

862
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: with the intensity when the play is actually happening. Sort

863
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: of this view of the game that we've all sort

864
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: of been socialized to accept, even though it's not the

865
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: best possible view for all these things that are I

866
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: think in many ways, unconscious football is just ideal for television,

867
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: and you know, it's I think what's things unique about

868
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: it is so many of the other sports when they

869
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: show a game on TV, what they're trying to do

870
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: is translate what the live experience feels like, right, Like

871
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: they're trying to make it feel as though you're there

872
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: in some way. But football doesn't do that. Like when

873
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: you watch football on television, they're not trying to trick

874
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: you into this experience like, well, this is kind of

875
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: what it feels like to be there. You're watching a

876
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: mediated event like that is what it is. And the

877
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: idea like you know, this came up. I wrote a

878
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: book ten years ago when they were already talking about this,

879
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: Like you know, they were talking about bowl games, you know,

880
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: and they'll be like, you know, the Music City Bowl

881
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: or whatever, and they'll the attendance will be just abysmal,

882
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: but then the ratings number on TV will still be good.

883
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean, cause it's like, you know, it's December twenty

884
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: seventh or whatever. Where you're gonna do You're gonna watch

885
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: these games or whatever. So there was this idea that

886
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: in the future, could there be a Bowl game with

887
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: no audience. But the entire stadium is basically made into

888
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: a studio, so it's just limitless cameras, you know, limitless sidelines.

889
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: The whole thing is only a TV experience. Now, that

890
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: seems real dystopian. It seems really weird. It seems like

891
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 1: something that they would do during the pandemic or whatever.

892
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: I could see it happen. I could see that happening,

893
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: and if it were to happen, I would be extraordinarily

894
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: curious to watch it. If they're like, this football game

895
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: is existing only for television with the only only that

896
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: it wouldn't exist at all if not, I would be

897
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: intrigued by that.

898
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: So what experience about the modern game on TV? To

899
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: you would blow your mind? As a fourteen year.

900
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: Old, Oh, skycam, the skycam, chuck, you go, skycam, you

901
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: got the first down line, You've got the score bog

902
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: you got a million, well you know.

903
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: When I was fourteen. Yeah, something that the skycam would

904
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: really be mind blowing because that actually predates like madness. Yeah,

905
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: that you the idea. The idea was sort of the

906
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: only people getting that view were coaches. They were the

907
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: only people who were you know, filming from the you know,

908
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: from the end zones or whatever. That would be part

909
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: of it. I mean the main thing would just be

910
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: the accessibility of it. I mean just the amount of

911
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: football games I could have, you know, because it's like

912
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: when I was young, I watched every minute of football

913
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: I could that was available. So I would watch the

914
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: college games when they were on. I'd go to the

915
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: high school game on Friday, I would watch the college

916
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: games they were on one or two on Saturday. Then

917
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: I would watch the early game, which was the vikings

918
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: for me, usually the late game, which was either Dallas

919
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: or Denver if it was if it was the AFC affiliate,

920
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: and then half of the Monday night came before I

921
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: went to bed. The idea that I could just watch football.

922
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: Basically there's a stretch where there's a football game on

923
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: every day, I think for thirty two days. Is this

924
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: am I or something like this, Yeah, yeah, football game

925
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: on every single day for thirty two consecutive days on television.

926
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: I just I'm not sure. I wonder if, in a

927
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: weird way, I do worry if it would have meant

928
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: less to me, if I would have been like, well,

929
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm not watching today, I'm gonna watch the team or whatever.

930
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: And you know, it's like I was near like I

931
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: would have there was nothing I would watch instead of

932
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: football when it was on when I was young, because

933
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: it was the idea that there's only so many chances

934
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: to see it, you know, like waiting to see the

935
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: NFL today, I would just wait, you know, But that

936
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: might maybe maybe that, and that could even be part

937
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: of this like lacking the relationships that I'm talking about.

938
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: I guess it really is in a sense like what

939
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm mostly talking about, how is you know, it's not

940
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: just that people don't necessarily play football anymore, because most

941
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: people don't, but it was like that they don't even

942
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: have a friend who does, and their dad didn't and

943
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: like their grandfather maybe even didn't like the idea of

944
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: knowing a football player, having football in your life, the

945
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: idea that the quarterback is your most popular kid in

946
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: your school. That's not how it is now. I mean

947
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: it isn't some schools, but at a lot of schools,

948
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: that is not how it is. That the idea of

949
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: being the being the quarterback or whatever is no longer

950
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: like proof of your success whatever. But it's also this

951
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: idea that football now, to a lot of people, looks

952
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: just like another reality TV show. It's just something that's on.

953
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: You can watch it at any time, you can follow

954
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: it all day, you can follow it none at all.

955
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: You can catch you up instantly, like it's very ea,

956
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: Like you can miss a weekend of football if you're

957
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: traveling or something, and it takes you an hour to

958
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: get everything, because like it's just so easy. Like maybe

959
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: that does create this chasm where it matters less to

960
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: people because the scarcity is gone. But at the same time,

961
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: who's good am I supposed to say? I wish it

962
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: was scarcer? I don't you know.

963
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things I wondered in reading

964
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: the book is you talk about how football is so

965
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: obviously better on TV than in person, just because of

966
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: sightlines and comforts, and how it's a slower game than

967
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 2: it appears, or it's a more difficult game to see,

968
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: depending on where you're sitting in a stadium. I think

969
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: college is different than pro football, and I think a

970
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: lot of it has to do with, like, you know,

971
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: people tailgates. People will catch up with old friends. They'll

972
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: meet up once a year and they'll go to a

973
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 2: Clemson game or a Texas Tech game or something, and

974
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: it's a it's a social community thing. And then when

975
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: you're inside of a stadium, like I went to Penn

976
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: State to watch the whiteout game this year, Oregon Penn State,

977
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: and it was the most electric thing I had seen

978
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: in a football stadium because of I'm surrounded by people

979
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 2: and everybody's wearing the same thing, and then you have

980
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,439
Speaker 2: the drum major coming out and doing the flip, and

981
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 2: you know, it's a frenzied atmosphere. At the same time,

982
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: Ty got caught in a thirty minute long wave of

983
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: people trying to get back from the bathrooms. Right, there's

984
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: like the pros and cons. There's a long winded way

985
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: of asking, have you had a good experience at a

986
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 2: college football game?

987
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: Oh? Definitely, Okay, just making sure there are a hundred

988
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: reasons to go to a football game live. Yes, that

989
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: are very great reasons. One of them just can't be

990
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: to see the game better always like I want to

991
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: go to this game. I really want to see what

992
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: happens in this game. I want to go. That doesn't

993
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: really make sense, but like I went to Oregon Oregon State.

994
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: It was a blow out a few years ago. It

995
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: was still fun. Like one of those Indisu games, especially

996
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: the playoff games, when it would like just you know

997
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: the winds, you'll be like forty below. The conditions were awful,

998
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: and that's in my mind that made it a much

999
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: more meaningful thing. You know. Yeah, it's I don't like,

1000
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to somehow suggest that, like it's dumb

1001
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: to go to a live football game. I would. I

1002
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: want to go see Ole Miss play there. I want

1003
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: to go see like you say, they smell like corn dogs,

1004
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: but I want to go to Death Valley and watch.

1005
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: Oh it's incredible.

1006
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: Yeah I would. But it's just a I that this

1007
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: has more to do almost just with me as a personality,

1008
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: like like I like records more than I like concerts. Sure,

1009
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: I would much rather listen to an artist in my

1010
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: house than go to a show. Like the sense of

1011
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: community that you're talking about I know is very important people,

1012
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: I don't share it like I'm just I'm not that

1013
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: kind of person. I like being by myself in a

1014
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: lot of ways, or with this very small group of people.

1015
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't enjoy crowds, not because I'm afraid of it,

1016
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 1: don't have any kind of phobia. I just don't enjoy

1017
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: that experience as much. A lot of times when I

1018
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: go to a sporting event, it's bizarre, Like I go

1019
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: to Blazers games here quite a bit, and sometimes I

1020
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: find myself being like, I'm glad I'm here. I kind

1021
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: of wish it was done, or I kind of wish

1022
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: we were toward the end. I wish we were in

1023
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: the last four minutes of the game or whatever. And

1024
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: now someone who listen to that and be like, see,

1025
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't really like sports. The thing is, I do

1026
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: like the sport. I do not like siding.

1027
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: Right, fair, fair enough. I agree with all of it.

1028
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, we don't get to go to games

1029
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: too frequently, so it's actually like a rush of being

1030
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, human and social when we're able to because

1031
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: we have to. Wea this is our jobs, this is

1032
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 2: our work. That we watch this and talk about it.

1033
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: All the time and obsess over it. So it actually

1034
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: adds a more human element when we're able to go

1035
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: to games.

1036
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm curious though, for you guys doing this podcast, how

1037
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: do you handle the watching? Like do you do you

1038
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: watch all the big games and then tape this minor

1039
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: one like like if there's if there's a ton of

1040
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: because you have to talk about all this stuff, right right,

1041
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: so if there are, or you just follow them the

1042
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: way you would in life. You just flip around and

1043
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: if you just you know, if the CBS game is

1044
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: the best game, that's what you watch, and if it's not,

1045
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: you go to Fox and Water, Like how how do

1046
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: you manage to seal all these things? And then because

1047
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: you need to have an opinion about that that's informed.

1048
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: At Lucky, I don't have to have an informed opinion

1049
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: about these things. I can just have an opinion because

1050
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: I'm just a guy.

1051
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: It's so we're recording our reaction show at midnight Eastern

1052
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 2: the day of and I think we try to do

1053
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: a decent job of telling people we watched as much

1054
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: as we could to try andform opinions, but we're not,

1055
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 2: you know, digesting with an extra twenty four hours to

1056
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: scrub through a bunch of games. How I try to

1057
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: do this, and I think ty is similar is we

1058
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: try to watch as much of the big games as

1059
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: they're happening as possible. I will. I have YouTube TV,

1060
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: so I just set up, you know, a DVR recording

1061
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: for every thing, and I could just hit the forward

1062
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: button between snaps. The what it takes away is, you know,

1063
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: one of the appeals of football is the sort of

1064
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: drama between plays.

1065
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: And it kind of becomes a job to do it.

1066
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: It becomes a job that way, like you know, or

1067
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,439
Speaker 1: I got it, you know, and no one looks. That's

1068
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: why I like recording sports events in general. It's so unsatisfying.

1069
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: It's so hard to record anything else. And it's it

1070
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 1: is a weird thing because it's like you're, you know,

1071
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: there is part of you in your mind that's always saying,

1072
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: like I could just find out what happened here. I

1073
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: could just find out what happened here. I could just

1074
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: go to the end, you know. But you're trying to

1075
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: recreate the experience of what it's like to watch it,

1076
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: and then it seems idiotic to be watching commercials. It

1077
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: just seems stupid, you know, or or even or even

1078
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: just when the game slows down to like you know,

1079
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: so you find yourself kind of skipping possessions. Somebody gets

1080
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: up eleven, so you're like, well, I'm gonna see if

1081
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: the score changes in ten minutes or whatever.

1082
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: You know, it's there are there are like twenty twenty

1083
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: five minute YouTube edits on that are up pretty quickly.

1084
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 2: You know what I'll do sometimes, and again I think

1085
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: Ty does this too, is I'll go to a team

1086
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: site blog, not like an official thing, like I'll go

1087
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: to like a Minnesota blog where they're like, okay, Minnesota

1088
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: just beat Nebraska, and I'll look at the comments and

1089
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: I won't form an opinion based on the comments, but

1090
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: then I'll say, like, if they're saying, Okay, the linebackers

1091
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: were garbage, but thank god we have this running back

1092
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: and this incredible play by this tight end, you know,

1093
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: should be remembered forever. Then when I go back and

1094
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: go through the Minnesota game, even if it's quickly, I

1095
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: can pay attention to those kinds of things, and that

1096
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: sort of gives me a table of contents going in,

1097
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: so that helps.

1098
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 3: The other thing, Chuck, And I've done this for years.

1099
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 3: I typically I'll go back. I'll do the rewatch just

1100
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 3: as as Dan described, But I like to condition myself

1101
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 3: first by reading the write up from the losing teams

1102
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 3: beat writer, because the winning team it's always, you know,

1103
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 3: puppy dogs and ice cream, but the losing team's going

1104
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: to be a little bit more cynical. Whoever writes that capsule,

1105
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 3: and that tends to give me like a little bit

1106
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 3: more of a caustic view of the game before I

1107
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 3: hit the play button.

1108
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 2: I've done that for years.

1109
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 3: That's always give me the best indication of how the

1110
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 3: game actually went.

1111
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's an interesting you guys say that. The

1112
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: comments thing, too, is intriguing to me because a lot

1113
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: of people like follow the news that way now, but

1114
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: they go to a New York Time story and they

1115
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: just read the comments. Because you can then triangulate what

1116
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: the story must be like. You'll be like, if everybody

1117
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: is claiming the story as a certain bias in it,

1118
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: You're like, well, I don't know if that's necessarily true,

1119
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: but that's how it's The perception is, so that means

1120
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: that's what it is like. The perception is that you

1121
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: can kind of figure it out without even consuming the

1122
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: actual thing. But that's also dangerous. I mean, that's totally

1123
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the things when we watch

1124
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: like talking head stuff on ESPN or whatever, when guys

1125
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 1: are talking about these things, sometimes it's very clear to

1126
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: me that they are describing their reaction, which is a

1127
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: secondhand description from someone else spotted told them miss and

1128
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: then they boiled it down in a way. And we

1129
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't actually have said that if you watched this game,

1130
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be the main thing you feel. But like,

1131
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: because that was the thing the guy mentioned that you

1132
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: was the most intriguing, it now kind of becomes the

1133
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: story of the game, you know, I guess it's I mean.

1134
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: It's not like the end of the world, but no,

1135
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's it's an impossible task, and it's

1136
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: especially going through games quickly. Right then you miss an

1137
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 2: injury and you're just like, I don't know why this

1138
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: player isn't on the field, or I don't know what

1139
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 2: this penalty was, and you have to go back and

1140
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: figure it out, and it robs you of the emotion

1141
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: of the game and what we want to do. In

1142
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: the games that we can watch the most of, we

1143
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 2: can say things like I don't understand why they gave

1144
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: up with two and a half minutes left and they

1145
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 2: were down ten and they had opportunities. And that's one

1146
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 2: of those things that because there are so many games

1147
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: and because there are so many fans of so many

1148
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 2: different teams, it's impossible to hit. And so we'll try

1149
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: to watch things going into Sunday and Monday and talk

1150
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: about them more during the week. But no, it's really

1151
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 2: tapping into the emotion of the sport is so much

1152
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: more important to us than tapping into the Like, Okay,

1153
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: Tennessee didn't win because they couldn't stop the run like that,

1154
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: fans already know that. So it's like, how did we

1155
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: feel watching Tennessee's defense? You know, why was it inexcusable

1156
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 2: that they were you know, one of thirteen on third downs?

1157
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 2: And that's that's difficult unless you sit and watch the

1158
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: slowness of football.

1159
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's difficult even if you did watch it, right, Like,

1160
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: football is a very complicated game, and sometimes it's very difficult.

1161
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: You can watch an entire game and to say a

1162
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: team couldn't stop the run, right and I I you know,

1163
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: we're all well versed enough to know the team couldn't

1164
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: stop the run. But then I said, well why couldn't they?

1165
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: You know, I often I mean like, well, I don't know.

1166
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, Bill Belichick one time was

1167
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: like getting interviewed after a game and he was like, well,

1168
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 1: I won't rely know this until I watched the tape

1169
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, he just watched the game from

1170
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: the sideline, and he's like, we were only knowing until

1171
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: you go to the film room. And the reporters said like, well,

1172
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: what percentage of value can you get from just watching it?

1173
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 1: And he said one percent? Yeah, yeah, like he as

1174
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: the coach, the brilliant mind. From watching the game from

1175
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: the sideline, he feels he gets a one percent understanding

1176
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: from seeing it live. Well what does that? Where does

1177
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: that put guys like us? Then?

1178
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1179
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: And I look like what are we supposed to?

1180
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 3: You know?

1181
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 2: And that's why I was like, how do I view

1182
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 2: this game through the lens of being a Mississippi State fan?

1183
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: Right?

1184
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: How would I feel if I were a South Carolina fan,

1185
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 2: if I were, you know, a Cal fan, that it's

1186
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: so frustrating that this quarterback keeps throwing you know, to

1187
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: this terrible receiver or this offensive coordinator keeps calling runs

1188
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: when they clearly can't block. Kind of that that's how

1189
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: we try to view it because at the end of

1190
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: the day, like I don't know about Tye, He's never

1191
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 2: been an offensive coordinator for a major school. I've never

1192
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: been you know, a zero technique nose tackle. So we

1193
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: just have to do our best to approximate the emotion

1194
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: of what about you, like that's what you just.

1195
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: Riding is very hard. I mean obviously, like if you

1196
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: listen to Paul Finbaum show some of the callers that

1197
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: you say, like you try to get in the mind

1198
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: of the Mississippi State Like there isn't like a collective fan. No,

1199
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: like if you're like the like you watched orgon right,

1200
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: so I live out here, you know, people love the

1201
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: Ducks and all this, but it's not the way there's

1202
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: another places. No, it isn't at all. Like it's like

1203
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: so they're like they're they're they they it's you don't

1204
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: want to say like they care less. They just care

1205
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: differently in a way that manifests itself as caring less.

1206
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: You know, where it's like a Mississippi State fan like

1207
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: you know what, what's the last time they were really good.

1208
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like when they had Dak Prescott

1209
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: they weren't that good or whatever, you know, and yet

1210
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: their fan base still sort of consumes that team the

1211
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: way the fan from Georgia does and that and that's

1212
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: like a unique thing or whatever. You know. That's how

1213
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: how a how a school like or you know, that's

1214
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: just like the regional thing. It's like sort of you know,

1215
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: like a fan of Arizona or Arizona State, how different

1216
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: that is than a fan of Michigan and Ohio State.

1217
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: Even if those teams, those four teams, if there was

1218
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: a season where they were very comparable terms of their potential,

1219
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: what they had and stuff, it's still different. I mean.

1220
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I think we probably all

1221
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: like about this.

1222
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. His name is Chuck Closterman.

1223
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: Again.

1224
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,439
Speaker 3: Here is the book. It's called Football. It's a quick read,

1225
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 3: a redd it this weekend. Come for the football discussion,

1226
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 3: Stay for the reference on page one sixty three to

1227
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 3: Brian Kelly as the jerk Father in the nineteen thirty

1228
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: three Laura Ingalls Wilder book Farmer Boy. That was a

1229
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 3: personal favorite of mind.

1230
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: Chuck. Hopefully we can bring you on again sometime soon.

1231
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 2: Bes of luck with the book.

1232
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: I'll come on this podcast anytime.

1233
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 2: We appreciate great to have you.

1234
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,959
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks, all right again.

1235
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 3: That is Chuck Klosterman, the author of Football, many books,

1236
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: eleven other books, but fotball is this slatest one. I

1237
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 3: don't know if you made it to one sixty three yet,

1238
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 3: and I did.

1239
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I read the whole book, ty the fact that

1240
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: you went, and I did the part where I think

1241
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: it was an episode about a little girl falling into

1242
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 2: the ice like the icy waters, right, and the dad

1243
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 2: on was little House on the prairie, right, The dad

1244
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: on Little House on the Prairie yelled at her, who

1245
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: almost died. I forget it was a boy or girl.

1246
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: And the reason the father did that was like, this

1247
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: is a dangerous world on the frontier and you have

1248
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: to be vigilant and you can't be doing stuff like that.

1249
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: It did have echoes of Brien the book.

1250
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 3: It was the nineteen thirty three Ingles Wilder book Farmer Boy.

1251
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 3: When I saw the reference and hair almost died, that

1252
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 3: killed me, And especially when he made the turn into

1253
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 3: the father in real life in a college football sense.

1254
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 3: Is Brian Kelly totally the jerk father. Who you need

1255
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: and who everybody who has grown up with football recognized

1256
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: is this character in the plot of football where the

1257
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 3: coach is scarier than falling in the icy water. Right,

1258
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 3: the coach makes it scarier than the mistake you commit.

1259
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 3: You need guys like that. I guess they're ones that

1260
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 3: play a central role in all of this. But he

1261
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 3: did a really good job. And the other thing about

1262
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 3: this book not the drone on too long about it,

1263
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 3: but that's why we're all here. There is an index

1264
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 3: in the back. I'm holding it up for the camera

1265
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: right now. There's an index in the back. And if

1266
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 3: you go through here, I mean the random topics that

1267
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 3: are covered in this football book.

1268
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 2: We've got tech, mobile.

1269
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 3: Ted talks obviously, like super moto, cycling, racing of course,

1270
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 3: Texas Christian University.

1271
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: This is just one page. It is quite literally everything that.

1272
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 3: You can imagine and football's ties to it. It was

1273
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 3: a really, really good read. Chuck did an awesome job

1274
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 3: with this book. I'm thrilled we had him on the

1275
01:01:59,360 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 3: show at long while.

1276
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 2: So what did you think about? Right, because a lot

1277
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: of a lot of the book is about, you know,

1278
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 2: what makes football unique, what makes it mainstream whatever, Like,

1279
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 2: what were the things because you probably maybe I'm just

1280
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 2: projecting this onto but I imagine you probably talked to

1281
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: or you thought about your own football fandom. Oh my god,

1282
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering what went through that super advanced that

1283
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: that Brandy yours time.

1284
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 3: Super advanced, Thank you. H The thing that resonated the

1285
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 3: most with me was and this is probably because we've

1286
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 3: just been inundated with these emails over the last couple

1287
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 3: of years about people worrying about the decline of football,

1288
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 3: which is something he speaks to at length in this

1289
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 3: and again his whole fear is if people lose their

1290
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 3: personal connection to the game, that's when things start to

1291
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: come off the swivel a little bit right.

1292
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 2: And you know that takes on.

1293
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 3: A whole bunch of different meetings within a football and

1294
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: a college football since but thinking through some of those possibilities,

1295
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 3: having the context of the hundreds of people literally who

1296
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 3: have emailed us about this very topic, it really did

1297
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 3: have me looking out the window wondering, Okay, is possible,

1298
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 3: is this something we could see happening. He is not

1299
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 3: arguing that football is going to go the way the

1300
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 3: dinosaur In the next twenty years right. And part of

1301
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 3: what makes this, as I think he told dare As

1302
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 3: Dan LeBatard told him in an interview that he did

1303
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks back. Part of the beauty of

1304
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 3: making a prediction like this is that you're not going

1305
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 3: to be alive to.

1306
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 2: See it, right.

1307
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 3: So this is way off in the future. But it

1308
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 3: did make me wonder a little bit, living through all

1309
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 3: of these rapid changes in the sport, if this is

1310
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 3: the trajectory that the sport is headed on, like, are

1311
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 3: we how quickly will we get to a point where

1312
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 3: a critical mass of people truly feel like they don't

1313
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: know college football anymore? And then they decide to bail?

1314
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: Right now, it's all in your and everything sort of

1315
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 2: made sense to to, you know, whatever degree you think

1316
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: as it resonates in your head. But yeah, nothing lasts forever,

1317
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 2: nothing grows forever. There's no eternal growth for any company,

1318
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: any sport, any entity whatsoever, any band, any act or whatever.

1319
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's a hot take that football's

1320
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 2: place in society will someday change, and it can only

1321
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,919
Speaker 2: pretty much go in one direction at this point. And so, yeah,

1322
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: college football is it seems to be undergoing a lot

1323
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 2: more change than the progame, and so that's probably what

1324
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: is going to continue to change, for better or for worse.

1325
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 2: As you know, I don't think there's ever going to

1326
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 2: reach a point in college football where you know, we're

1327
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 2: in twenty thirty two and we have a sixteen team

1328
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 2: playoff or a twenty fourteen playoff, and we have whatever

1329
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 2: the conferences look like, and we're going to say, all right,

1330
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: I think we got it right. We can just go

1331
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: from here. We'll a long time. That does not seem likely.

1332
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 3: The question I wanted to ask him, though, since I

1333
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 3: know he does a lot of thinking ahead in the book,

1334
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 3: is is any of this reversible? Because right now it

1335
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like any of it is. It feels like,

1336
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 3: to your point, we're kind of on this glide path

1337
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 3: towards bigger and.

1338
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: Quote unquote better.

1339
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 3: But there's also a scenario in which we end up

1340
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 3: a couple of years in the future where all the

1341
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 3: teams are clumped together into a bunch of super conferences

1342
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: to the point where they become unmanageable and they have

1343
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 3: to fragment again, right, and once again we get regional pods,

1344
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 3: which are akin to the old conference structure that we

1345
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 3: saw in the path. I don't know how likely that is,

1346
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 3: but I think if we're being honest with the thought experiment,

1347
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 3: that is a possibility to at least consider and would

1348
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 3: that restore regionality? Would that restore I don't, probably not,

1349
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 3: but again for the purposes of a thought experiment, that

1350
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 3: was one thing that did come to mind as I

1351
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 3: was going through all this and just pondering the future

1352
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 3: of the sport.

1353
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 2: Look, I'm the prime example here of somebody who would

1354
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: love for nothing more than contraction and going back in

1355
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 2: certain elements. Right the regional aspect of the sports of

1356
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 2: the sport. Life moves forward. Tie, There's only one direction

1357
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 2: life moves, and so it's a it's a matter of

1358
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 2: figuring out how to optimize what the sport can be,

1359
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 2: who the sport is for, what the core aspects, what

1360
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 2: the main thing is, and you know, keeping the main

1361
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 2: thing the main thing. But I just there's no possible

1362
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 2: way we're going back to what it was. There could

1363
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 2: be you know, a division of the big ten and

1364
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 2: a division of the big twelve. And it kind of

1365
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 2: has the feel your western front right right, you squint,

1366
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 2: and it kind of looks like the Southwestern Conference. You

1367
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 2: squint and it looks like the Big Eight something like that.

1368
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 2: But there's no actual going back, And especially with the

1369
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 2: amount of money needed to run a major program or

1370
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 2: a middle of the road program or a medium sized program,

1371
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: the money's got to come from somewhere. You can't just

1372
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: say we're going to go back to being you know,

1373
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: Boyse's going to go back to the Whack or you know, TC,

1374
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: who's going to go back to the Mountain West because

1375
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 2: it was cooler, you know, when we had all of this,

1376
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 2: you know, regional elements. And TC's obviously in the Big twelve.

1377
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 2: So that's not the best example, but there's just you

1378
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 2: can't turn the thing around now. So you can't. I

1379
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: think you just have to understand and be as thoughtful

1380
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 2: as possible about the changes instead of saying, yeah, we're

1381
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: going to a playoff just because we think it would

1382
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 2: be cool. And this is the number we came up with,

1383
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 2: and this is the committee we came up with because

1384
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: it seems like it makes sense. And I just I

1385
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 2: think college football is going with the like old Silicon

1386
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 2: Valley like move fast and break things, and you're just like,

1387
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a long term solution. They

1388
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 2: have broken stuff for sure, and Silicon Valley has broken

1389
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff. Uh huh, yeah, but yeah, I

1390
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,919
Speaker 2: don't know. It's why I choose to do a show

1391
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: like this because I think we're like minded in enough ways,

1392
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 2: even though you're a dirty expansionist, and having a guest

1393
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 2: on like Chuck to talk about you know why we

1394
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: really appreciate this sport. And one of the things I

1395
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: was thinking about, because this is what I do, as

1396
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: surprising as it may be to some people, is you

1397
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 2: know what's appealing about the sport that keeps me coming

1398
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 2: back because it's changed so much. And I don't know

1399
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: if it's my number one thing. I don't know if

1400
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 2: it's number my nine thing, but there is something that

1401
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: the separating factor, a separating factor with college as opposed

1402
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 2: to pro is you get players who don't fit in

1403
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 2: a box, who thrive. You get Travis Hunter in college football,

1404
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 2: and Travis Hunter goes to the NFL and he's like, well,

1405
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: he's gonna be a corner, right, or you know, you

1406
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 2: get the players he's not he's not really a running back,

1407
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 2: but he's not really a receiver, or he's not really

1408
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 2: a safety, he's not really aligned and then once he

1409
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: gets to the NFL he is this and you know

1410
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,799
Speaker 2: they're you know, they are exceptions, but yeah, finding Tevon

1411
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 2: Austin or Derwin James or Miles Jack or who Utah

1412
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 2: had Sione Vaki, right, yea, Yeah, those types of people

1413
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: who are Isaiah Simmons at Clemson where you're like, it

1414
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 2: doesn't fit as like a this, but it like reminds

1415
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: me of like positionless basketball, and I kind of like that,

1416
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 2: there's just a player who's too talented at too many things,

1417
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 2: so we're just gonna figure it out. And you don't

1418
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 2: get that in the NFL. You don't get that in

1419
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 2: a lot of sports. You know, there's a show Hey

1420
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: o Tani right in the history of modern baseball, and

1421
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, I I really am always excited for

1422
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 2: the next version of that. And that's that's what college

1423
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 2: seems to deliver consistently.

1424
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in addition, there are a lot of guys

1425
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 3: like Diego Pavia, totally guys like Diego Pavia who are

1426
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 3: undersized and you know, he might not want to hear this,

1427
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 3: but probably won't be an NFL quarterback for any extended

1428
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 3: period of time. But that doesn't take anything away from

1429
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 3: what he did at Vanderbilt or what he did at

1430
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 3: his previous stops before getting there. It is stuff like that,

1431
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 3: stories like that that feed into the pageantry that I

1432
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 3: think we spoke about here with Chuck. So again, a

1433
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 3: really quick read. If you like football. This is not

1434
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 3: an NFL book, This is not a college book. It's

1435
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 3: just a football book. If you're into the sport the

1436
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 3: way we are, we would encourage everybody to check it out.

1437
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 3: We'll make sure we post that link down in the

1438
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 3: description and yeah, pick it up right in soliverble at

1439
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 3: gmail dot com.

1440
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 2: Let us know your thoughts.

1441
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Dan Rubinstein, why don't we leave it there for now.

1442
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 3: We'll be back another episode coming up on Thursday. There is,

1443
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 3: of course news swirling around college football. There always is.

1444
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 3: We'll do our part to keep you upspeed on that

1445
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 3: and much much more.

1446
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: Again.

1447
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,600
Speaker 3: Verballers dot com is where he can go if you

1448
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 3: want to directly support the nonsense that Dan and I

1449
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 3: are putting out there on a weekly basis. If nothing more,

1450
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 3: please hit follow, please hit subscribe. If you made it

1451
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,600
Speaker 3: this far, we'd love to have you the rest of

1452
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 3: the way here this offseason.

1453
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, and I don't mean for

1454
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: this to be a footnote on this episode, but just

1455
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 2: because it's timely and in the news. Was absolutely gutted

1456
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 2: at the Rondelle Moore news. Absolutely got it. And like

1457
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 2: the Purdue team that he was on with the Ohio

1458
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 2: State game, and like he is not that right, he

1459
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 2: is not only a former football player, he is not

1460
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 2: only a former Purdue player or whatever. But was a

1461
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 2: joy for me to watch as a football player. And

1462
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 2: the news from the weekend was just absolutely gutting, a

1463
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 2: total and complete tragedy. So sad to see it. Ronde

1464
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 2: Moore was like just like one of the guys we

1465
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 2: loved in this sport, and you know it hurts every

1466
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 2: time it's tough news.

1467
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 3: Yeah all right, Well on that note, yeah, why don't

1468
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 3: we call it a day. As I said on Thursday,

1469
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: we will be back with another episode. We appreciate everybody

1470
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 3: hanging with us, and of course we appreciate Chuck Closterman

1471
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 3: for giving us about an hour of his time today.

1472
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you all soon, all right.

1473
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 3: In the meantime, for that guy over there, Dan, for myself, Tie,

1474
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 3: you know, the drill, stay soft peace,