Speaker 1: Reinventing, re evaluating, rethinking. So many of us are feeling
Speaker 1: the pole in that direction, taking stock asking is this
Speaker 1: what I still want? Is this who I still am?
Speaker 1: So many are now feeling pushed into new directions, forced
Speaker 1: to pivot that could be uncomfortable, right and frightening. My
Speaker 1: two guests have lived those feelings and learned a few
Speaker 1: things about how to work through them. Eddie George was
Speaker 1: an All Pro running back for the Titans and Heisman
Speaker 1: Trophy winner at Ohio State who dove into stage acting.
Speaker 1: He's already played some of Shakespeare's most epic characters and
Speaker 1: started in Broadways production of Chicago. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure, and I'm thinking, yeah, you know, they're going
Speaker 1: to come see what a football player is doing on
Speaker 1: this stage and if he can actually has the shops
Speaker 1: to do it. So it's very similar. The energy every night,
Speaker 1: every every single night, in every performance on Broadway is
Speaker 1: definitely like the Super Bowl. There's you don't there's not
Speaker 1: a regular season game on Broadway every night, He's a
Speaker 1: super Bowl night. Clinton Kelly is a beloved Emmy winning
Speaker 1: TV host from t LCS What Not To Wear to
Speaker 1: the Chew on ABC and now h G t VS
Speaker 1: Self made Mansions, and he's the best selling author of
Speaker 1: five books. I think that knowing what you want um
Speaker 1: and having a plan on how to get it is
Speaker 1: really powerful. I think that you have to really ask yourself,
Speaker 1: what do I want from life? Am I even close
Speaker 1: to achieving that? And if not, how can I get there?
Speaker 1: And so then you have to ask yourself, are all
Speaker 1: of my behaviors serving that purpose, like the moving me
Speaker 1: toward that goal? Or are they moving me away from
Speaker 1: that goal? And I felt like I am slowly feeling
Speaker 1: my goals slipping away from me because I just am afraid.
Speaker 1: Like that sort of boils down to it. Both Clinton
Speaker 1: and Eddie have frequently taken stock and emerged, reinvented, and recharged.
Speaker 1: I first met Eddie the week he won the Heisman Trophy.
Speaker 1: In twenty years later, he returned to New York for
Speaker 1: his Broadway run. So Eddie, five years ago Heisman Trophy presentation,
Speaker 1: a video comes on showing you rehearsing for Chicago and
Speaker 1: getting ready to start on Broadway. Coming out of that piece,
Speaker 1: the expression on the face of your HAIs Brothers, they
Speaker 1: could not believe the guy they knew as a great
Speaker 1: football player, had the bravery and the cajone is to
Speaker 1: do what you were doing. Did you sense in the
Speaker 1: room how blown away these guys were by this career
Speaker 1: pivot you had made. Yeah, of course, Um, you know
Speaker 1: some of them were like, oh my god, he's wearing
Speaker 1: leotards in a two two? Uh, oh my god, he
Speaker 1: what is he? What is he doing? Now? You know
Speaker 1: I got a sense of that. But um, they were, man,
Speaker 1: they were in awe. I think, yeah, somewhere in all somewhere,
Speaker 1: like you know, I looked over at the ball coach.
Speaker 1: He was like, you know, he's rocking his chair with
Speaker 1: this like look of bewilderment, like that, really is he
Speaker 1: really doing that? He asked me later, he says, did
Speaker 1: you really sing? Like do you? I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm doing it all. You know. It's like there's no
Speaker 1: there's no stand there that comes in and doesn't talk
Speaker 1: about yeah yeah Steve. So you know it was you know,
Speaker 1: to see their expression was priceless. But prior to that, Chris,
Speaker 1: I've been studying acting and um been on stage uh
Speaker 1: seven eight years before that. You know, Uh, some of
Speaker 1: my worst moments where when they didn't see it, you know,
Speaker 1: UM and auditions and UM being on stage and forgetting
Speaker 1: my lines and making stuff up on the fly and
Speaker 1: going backstage, not wanting to go back out there ever
Speaker 1: again in life. But I had to must up to
Speaker 1: strengthen the courage to to do that and trust that
Speaker 1: the words were in there. And that's just a part
Speaker 1: of process, the process of anything, you know, UH, playing sports.
Speaker 1: You know, earlier in my career at the Ohio State, UM,
Speaker 1: I had some great success. Uh scored three touchdowns in
Speaker 1: the ESPN Game of the Week against Sarrah Houston, UM,
Speaker 1: and only two weeks later to fumble twice in Illinois
Speaker 1: or opening game. And that was a struggle and I
Speaker 1: had to be defined and find myself there. So UM,
Speaker 1: it's it happens in cycles, I believe. I think, UM
Speaker 1: when you when I when I made the transition to
Speaker 1: be to acting, it was not seamless. It was not easy.
Speaker 1: It was not like, hey, I have this this great talent.
Speaker 1: I have to develop it and I continue to develop
Speaker 1: it like any other muscle. So it was it was daunting.
Speaker 1: But you know, for for me to be you know,
Speaker 1: show my hysman brothers five years ago what I was
Speaker 1: doing I felt confident at that point. They say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, it doesn't it really doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: you think, come and check it out. And I mean
Speaker 1: at that point I just didn't care more. Well, no
Speaker 1: one steps on stage and Broadway or anywhere else in
Speaker 1: showbis without paying their dues, without stumbling and falling and
Speaker 1: embarrassing themselves. We'll get to all that. Your journey is amazing.
Speaker 1: The parallels you just drew between your football career and
Speaker 1: the acting career are interesting to me. But I do
Speaker 1: want to go back to the moment when you realized
Speaker 1: football was was nearing the end and you were gonna
Speaker 1: have to pivot. Great years in Tennessee, Pro Bowls were
Speaker 1: Kie of the Year, Super Bowl, you went to Dallas.
Speaker 1: I believe was just for one year, and the end
Speaker 1: maybe came earlier than you thought, maybe came in a
Speaker 1: different way than you thought. When that moment arrived and
Speaker 1: you had to face that it was ending and I
Speaker 1: had to figure out something else to do. What was
Speaker 1: that moment? What did that feel like for you? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: it's felt um like I was in the twilight zone
Speaker 1: a little bit because what I've known for so long,
Speaker 1: how I prepared for each season. How I m got
Speaker 1: my mind right for my training in the different phases
Speaker 1: of getting ready for NFL season or football season. I've
Speaker 1: been doing it my entire life up to that point.
Speaker 1: And I was thirty one, and um, when I once
Speaker 1: I realized that that my playing days were done, it
Speaker 1: was it was a gut riching feeling. I mean, I
Speaker 1: saved my money. I had a roof up from my head.
Speaker 1: I wasn't fearful in that regard of of being financially broke,
Speaker 1: but it was like, oh damn, you know what's next?
Speaker 1: Or really, you know who am I? What was that moment?
Speaker 1: What was there a point where you realized in a
Speaker 1: game or a practice that wow, um, this is I'm
Speaker 1: not long for this and this is not how I
Speaker 1: want to go out, but I may not have my
Speaker 1: my choice. Yeah, it was, Uh it was. It was
Speaker 1: a cold day in November in Dallas practice and um
Speaker 1: Tony Romo was the scout team quarterback at that time,
Speaker 1: and I was on scout team goal line, scout team
Speaker 1: running back and I remember thinking as he's calling out
Speaker 1: the play, I'm like thinking to myself, my god, I
Speaker 1: want to hisman trophy. I was the face of a franchise,
Speaker 1: all the accolades, all the accomplishments that that I've accomplished
Speaker 1: in my my career. And I'm thinking to myself now
Speaker 1: reduced to a gold line Scout team running back. I
Speaker 1: never played scout team in my life. And he says,
Speaker 1: mixed the call and break bread break. I didn't get
Speaker 1: the calls, and I wasn't thinking. I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Okay, what am I gonna do here? I
Speaker 1: can't stop the drill. I'm already in the dog house
Speaker 1: and build ourselves, so I gotta figure it out. I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a savvy veteran. If he opens up right,
Speaker 1: I'll go right. To go up left, I'll go left.
Speaker 1: So he opens it right, I go right, and it
Speaker 1: continues to go right and hands the ball off and
Speaker 1: I'm with the wrong way and I screwed the drill up,
Speaker 1: and Parcels screams out at the top of his lungs
Speaker 1: in front of everybody, George, get the f off my field.
Speaker 1: You're messing up my drill. And the time I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, I was born in as a veteran, well
Speaker 1: respected that was extremely embarrassing, and I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: I got kicked off of scout team. My career is done.
Speaker 1: And it was, and it was the harsh reality of
Speaker 1: of playing in in the NFL. UM. Prior to that,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter what I accomplished going into Dallas. It
Speaker 1: was how much value did I bring them? And the
Speaker 1: fact of the matter, I was a veteran. I cost
Speaker 1: more money than than the rookie. UM. I could have
Speaker 1: played a few more years. But the writing, the handwriting
Speaker 1: was on the wall. And and that's that's really what
Speaker 1: I kind of knew that the door was gonna shut
Speaker 1: on me. UM. I had visions of of my retirement
Speaker 1: coming on a day where I played fourteen years, won
Speaker 1: four Super Bowls, UM, and I had my family and
Speaker 1: friends in the audience and some of the media and
Speaker 1: just official to my right and left and but adds
Speaker 1: to my left, God, bless your soul, UM, I have
Speaker 1: a chance to have that dramatic pause at the podium
Speaker 1: and ship a few tears and then come right back
Speaker 1: and and talk about what's next. But but my career
Speaker 1: ended with me sitting at my kitchen table UH at Stewart,
Speaker 1: Glenn where I lived in Nashville with my flip phone,
Speaker 1: hoping from my agent to calling me with another opportunity.
Speaker 1: It's a little scary all of a sudden, you have
Speaker 1: to make this transition your your identity as an athlete,
Speaker 1: which is from your earliest memories. Probably it's in your
Speaker 1: literally in your DNA. It's who you are. And that's gone.
Speaker 1: And now you've got a comfortable situation. You're grateful for that,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but you also got a lot of time
Speaker 1: left in your life. And how did you come upon
Speaker 1: acting as a potential outlet for your creative energy and
Speaker 1: all that stuff? Well, I was getting at that time.
Speaker 1: I was still doing some stuff out in Hollywood to
Speaker 1: get opportunities to audition for a few pieces, and they
Speaker 1: weren't going well. I had no idea what the hell
Speaker 1: I was doing. He talked about embarrassing, It was rarely embarrassing.
Speaker 1: Remember having my shirt off for for one audition and
Speaker 1: I'm punching air shadow boxing and they're asking me to
Speaker 1: make noises, and you know, I'm thinking to myself, is
Speaker 1: this is this what I'm supposed to be doing? It
Speaker 1: just didn't feel right, and I'm like, this is this
Speaker 1: is silly? I really need to get, you know, if
Speaker 1: I want to do this, to get the proper training
Speaker 1: for it. So I came back home, and UM, I
Speaker 1: sought out a couple of acting coaches here in town,
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you know what, treat me as
Speaker 1: a rookie. UH, start me off slow, you know, to
Speaker 1: show me what I need to learn. They gave me
Speaker 1: a ton of books to hogg in, um the uh
Speaker 1: the art of acting. UM, A bunch of just children's
Speaker 1: stories books, you know, just to start with character development,
Speaker 1: cold reads, and and just built from there. Um. And
Speaker 1: it was like three or four years of this three
Speaker 1: times a week of writing and listening and learning and
Speaker 1: getting on my feet and improv and all of that.
Speaker 1: And then it grew into the classics of Shakespeare and
Speaker 1: Susie Lauri Parks and contemporary work. So it just kind
Speaker 1: of built over time. UM. With that, Uh, So I
Speaker 1: was willing to start over again because I knew the
Speaker 1: process of understanding and really appreciating the art. I just
Speaker 1: didn't want to be the athletes just coming in delivering
Speaker 1: a couple of lines. I really wanted to understand what
Speaker 1: it meant to be an athlete, and through my experience,
Speaker 1: I took a lot of that um that pain that
Speaker 1: I experienced from playing football into some of the roles
Speaker 1: that I was that I was playing, and it really
Speaker 1: came across authentic and real because it was real, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was cathartic. You know. Acting is truly a cathartic
Speaker 1: experience is a very spiritual experience. It's it's telling the
Speaker 1: truth and imaginary circumstances and and that's and that's what
Speaker 1: it is. You You are telling the truth of your
Speaker 1: own life, how you perceived the life of the character
Speaker 1: through that. So that's that's what I had to learn
Speaker 1: and relearn, and it provided some healing for me in
Speaker 1: terms of how my career ended. So it was truly
Speaker 1: a lessing in the gift well. Life humbles us all
Speaker 1: in many ways, and the fact that you realized you
Speaker 1: had to embrace that humility, start from scratch and be
Speaker 1: willing to come in not as a celebrity athlete, but
Speaker 1: someone who was just starting to learn a new craft
Speaker 1: and it was gonna take everything you had to to
Speaker 1: be good at it. I think that's awesome. My dad
Speaker 1: was a theater director, so I grew up around this stuff,
Speaker 1: and but it scared the hell out of me. The
Speaker 1: idea of getting on stage and actually doing I love
Speaker 1: the electricity of it. I saw the tension and him
Speaker 1: it was a part of our family went a production
Speaker 1: was going on. He was also a professor of theater art,
Speaker 1: so he's around kids all the time. But I was
Speaker 1: scared to death of take an acting class much. Let's
Speaker 1: get on stage. So I applaud you for doing that.
Speaker 1: So so you're taking on these roles. You're in Nashville
Speaker 1: at one point, and you get a chance to play Othello,
Speaker 1: she has to play in Julius Caesar. So now you're
Speaker 1: speaking some of the great words ever written for this stage.
Speaker 1: I mean, speak of me as I am one that
Speaker 1: loved wisely but not too well. But by the way,
Speaker 1: before you kill yourself and Julius Caesar, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is just this is heavy stuff. Did you did you
Speaker 1: enjoy it? Sort of embracing that and realizing that you're
Speaker 1: taking on this this great tradition of these roles and
Speaker 1: go back forward to years. Oh my god, it was.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. Um. I remember when I first fell
Speaker 1: in love with actually with Shakespeare on stage. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: my acting coach and a real friends. Look bless your soul.
Speaker 1: She tells me any time that I can go to
Speaker 1: see a play in New York City, every time I
Speaker 1: go to take a trip, whether it's for you know,
Speaker 1: for the Heisman or a business trip, make sure you
Speaker 1: go see a play. That's a part of the training
Speaker 1: of an actor. And um, I went to UH to
Speaker 1: New York at the time to go see uh Macbeth
Speaker 1: and or it was a handle. It was Hamlet with
Speaker 1: the June Law. And I'm thinking, Okay, this is Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it's a great experience. I got my
Speaker 1: pillow ready, I got my line. I'm ready to knock out,
Speaker 1: you know, wake up second act and say brabo. Right,
Speaker 1: that's when I'm That's what I'm one wanted to do.
Speaker 1: But my wife is the same way. So we're in
Speaker 1: the audience and immediately, you know, the the stage transforms
Speaker 1: into that world and the smoke comes out. And I
Speaker 1: promised you, Chris, I could not understand a single word
Speaker 1: they were saying, but based off of their language, based
Speaker 1: off of their the heightened speech, everything about it was transformed.
Speaker 1: I was transfixed. I was just just locked in and
Speaker 1: enchanted by it. And I was like, oh, my god,
Speaker 1: this is really riveting. So once I got a kind
Speaker 1: of caught up my ear, kind of caught it with
Speaker 1: my with with the the with the words and what
Speaker 1: they were saying, I kind of understand now what was happening.
Speaker 1: I fell in love with it and did not falsely.
Speaker 1: I hung on every single word and the poetry and
Speaker 1: the body, the language athleticism of jew Law. I said,
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. And I told my
Speaker 1: wife that. She was like, you can barely speak the
Speaker 1: English language little alone Shakespeare. But that was the challenge
Speaker 1: and I supportive message, by the way. Absolutely. It was like,
Speaker 1: you can barely speak English, well, you know. But you
Speaker 1: go from being an audience member who was in awe
Speaker 1: of that to someone who believes they can do it.
Speaker 1: What what did it require of you initially to sort
Speaker 1: of believe that you could stay up there and play out,
Speaker 1: not just be an audience member marveling at it? Oh man?
Speaker 1: It well, it takes the first step of getting the
Speaker 1: words in your mouth, of picking up a play. I
Speaker 1: would just behind me. I have, um, you know, the
Speaker 1: no fear Richard. The third, I have all my stuff
Speaker 1: just over my shoulder. Um. I picked up these DVDs
Speaker 1: on how to act Shakespeare. I worked with it on
Speaker 1: my acting coach day in and day out, will work
Speaker 1: on soliloquies and speeches and um, go through a play
Speaker 1: and and go through each and every single word and
Speaker 1: break it down and understand that first of all, to
Speaker 1: to to remember to remember the of the your lines.
Speaker 1: It's and you don't remember them. It's a rhythm. Is
Speaker 1: I am a contamina? And you've got to know the
Speaker 1: rhythm is that I'm that, I'm that um that ump
Speaker 1: that up that I'm So it tells you exactly where
Speaker 1: the uh, the actor is in the emotional state. If
Speaker 1: that rhythm is broken, you can understand and that okay,
Speaker 1: there's something mostly going on here or or if it's
Speaker 1: not in the rhythm, I mean, it's just a certain
Speaker 1: rhythm that you that you uh, that you go by
Speaker 1: and you get in your body. And uh. That was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun for me because now I can
Speaker 1: be the athlete that I was as a football player,
Speaker 1: and I can marry the two. You could overdo the comparisons,
Speaker 1: but there is a playbook and football there's a script
Speaker 1: and there's learning you know, the play on the page.
Speaker 1: Two dimensional things. Then you've got to act it out
Speaker 1: on the field and understand the new one to that
Speaker 1: and the and the space to improv and where no
Speaker 1: two players in football right are the same right, And
Speaker 1: and for people who do know theater, they may the
Speaker 1: script maybe the same Shakespeare's words, you're probably not add
Speaker 1: living those performance performance, but there's always these differences. What
Speaker 1: what did you love about that energy, that improvisation in
Speaker 1: the moment edie of being on a life stage that
Speaker 1: compared to football. Well, the beauty about stage is this, Chris,
Speaker 1: You're you're doing the same play, but each performance is different.
Speaker 1: You come to a different actor, you come to it
Speaker 1: with a different level of understanding who you were as
Speaker 1: an actor on the opening night, You're gonna be completely
Speaker 1: different by the end of the run. On the closing night,
Speaker 1: meaning that you want to understand the story a little
Speaker 1: bit deeper. There will be there'll be epiphanies in the
Speaker 1: play as you're saying and we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is what this means because it's becoming true to
Speaker 1: the character. So it's it's not like you're saying the
Speaker 1: same words the same way the same blocking. The freedom
Speaker 1: is in the speech. So once you really understand what
Speaker 1: you're saying and why you're saying, what your motive is
Speaker 1: in that scene, then it becomes something completely different. You're
Speaker 1: just not spilling out words is to get it out.
Speaker 1: You're coming with needing, You're coming with nuance. You're not
Speaker 1: you're not manufacturing the moment. You're not manufacturing tears. There
Speaker 1: could be a scene in there where it may trigger
Speaker 1: something in your life from you're thinking of your father
Speaker 1: in that moment for the character, and the same thing
Speaker 1: holds true. It runs parallel, and now you're really getting
Speaker 1: into the crux and the new and the real nuance
Speaker 1: of the character and the truth of the character. So
Speaker 1: if you if you approach it, and I've approached it
Speaker 1: that way where I'm looking to learn something different about
Speaker 1: this character. Why and that's why I stayed in my script.
Speaker 1: I'm constantly looking and saying, oh wow, you know, why
Speaker 1: is he seeing this word here? You know, why is
Speaker 1: a fellow um using these words at this moment in time?
Speaker 1: And what does it really mean for him? You know
Speaker 1: the weight that he's carrying, and you allow that that
Speaker 1: that energy to take over and trust it and and
Speaker 1: trust the words that they're going to be there. So yes,
Speaker 1: it's much like a play in football, where it's designed
Speaker 1: the excess and those supposedly Okay, you're gonna kick out
Speaker 1: block the fullbacks will go down a linebacker and now
Speaker 1: you want to you know, run for a dr touchdown.
Speaker 1: Sometimes to line back to me straight and maybe a breakdown.
Speaker 1: You have to cut it back and didn't go eat.
Speaker 1: So that's that's the beauty of of of having sports
Speaker 1: and and theater in my life that I can relate
Speaker 1: to the two. The only thing is, I'm not Ray
Speaker 1: Lewis isn't gonna knock me out on the stage. That's
Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, I mean, it's it's you're not trying
Speaker 1: to impose your will or have avoid having someone else's
Speaker 1: will opposed on you. It said, it's a much more
Speaker 1: you know, subtle, fluid thing. An audience member is not
Speaker 1: supposed to see the preparation, right, they're not supposed to
Speaker 1: understand what's gone into what you just described. But Laurence
Speaker 1: Olivier others have said that you have to have the
Speaker 1: humility to prepare, to have the confidence to perform. But
Speaker 1: the second doesn't come without the first, and humility is
Speaker 1: required because it's a grind, it's not glamorous and it
Speaker 1: just takes hard ass work. So you you've done that,
Speaker 1: You've you've fallen in love with Shakespeare. But that's not Chicago.
Speaker 1: That's not singing and dancing, right, So you get eventually,
Speaker 1: how do you get to the place where you're convinced
Speaker 1: that you can play the the sweet talking, smooth, charismatic
Speaker 1: lawyer Billy Flynn in Chicago. And I think there's three
Speaker 1: or four songs of tongue Friends of the Courtroom that's
Speaker 1: still a lead from ShakespeRe. That it's different now it is,
Speaker 1: but you know, you talk about preparation, and ironically enough
Speaker 1: and my preparation in my early days of working with
Speaker 1: my my acting coach, Anna Maria, I had to sing
Speaker 1: lessons to help me with my voice, to help with
Speaker 1: range and and nuance, and to use my diet friend
Speaker 1: and not talk from my throat um, which I still
Speaker 1: do from time this time um. And we used to
Speaker 1: do vocal warm ups, really work on the on the
Speaker 1: my voice. We used to sing songs and one of
Speaker 1: the earlier songs Chris was all I care about his
Speaker 1: love and she says to me in our like like
Speaker 1: maybe the first few times I've worked with her. She
Speaker 1: would get on the piano, a little short Italian lady,
Speaker 1: and she here and she has the little her glasses
Speaker 1: on looking at the music, and she would look I
Speaker 1: would hit a bot a note. She would look up
Speaker 1: at me. I'm like, I do something wrong, says no,
Speaker 1: keep going, you see I keep going to look up,
Speaker 1: says you know what. You had a great singing voice.
Speaker 1: You would make a great Billy Finn. One day I said, woman, look,
Speaker 1: let's just get through all this. Okay, Let's just get
Speaker 1: through the workout, through the warm up, our our lesson,
Speaker 1: focus on. We have to focus on. I'm never want
Speaker 1: to sing well. In two thousand what two thousand fifty
Speaker 1: six was fifteen fourteen, two thousand and fourteen, I was
Speaker 1: doing the play here in Nashville called The whipping Man,
Speaker 1: and it was a very deep play by Matthew Lopez.
Speaker 1: Look it up as well as really a hard hitting
Speaker 1: play that required a lot of emotion, was emotionally draining,
Speaker 1: was very dark, and in the middle of our rehearsals,
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking to myself, my God, in order
Speaker 1: for me to survive this, I got to see something
Speaker 1: like funhearted and just to break the monotony of this,
Speaker 1: to break the energy along behold Um. Chicago was in Nashville.
Speaker 1: The traveling company was in town. So I was invited
Speaker 1: out by the president of Tea pak Um, Kathleen O'Brien,
Speaker 1: and her and her husband invite me out, and I go,
Speaker 1: and I went. Familiar with the play that I saw
Speaker 1: the movie with Richard Gears, so I have a general
Speaker 1: understanding what it's like, but I've never seen the acts
Speaker 1: performance on stage. So I go. I'm in the audience
Speaker 1: and I familie with the songs, like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: kind of fun. And then it was time for Billy
Speaker 1: Flynner come, you know, and the girls come out and
Speaker 1: sas we what dimly give us Delly, this is the
Speaker 1: great opening, right and he hits the stage, comes out,
Speaker 1: does this deal? Does this song? I care about? His
Speaker 1: love does the scenes? And I was like, oh man,
Speaker 1: that that's it. That now that looks like fun, you know.
Speaker 1: I said, Now that's one day I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 1: So she hears me. She's like interesting, she says, well,
Speaker 1: can you sing? Well? I took singing lessons before, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I can say I'll figure it out this well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna call the White Slers in New York and get
Speaker 1: you an audition. I said, Okay, you do that at
Speaker 1: Long Behole. Two weeks later, she calls me back, Eddie,
Speaker 1: I got you in audition for to play the role
Speaker 1: with Billy Finley or for the Bielers. I'm like, really,
Speaker 1: when is it's just in two weeks. I'm like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: I had to study. I hadn't worked on my voice
Speaker 1: and them over maybe five or six months. So I'm tanis,
Speaker 1: but I gotta take this opportunity. So I worked on
Speaker 1: the songs. I get my acting coach, we listen to
Speaker 1: the music. I'm doing everything I can. I go up
Speaker 1: there in November of two thousand fourteen. I get my
Speaker 1: best suit, Chris, I get my my my top hat,
Speaker 1: got my suit on. I go in. There is Billy Flynn.
Speaker 1: I going to the Ambassador Theater. I walk out on
Speaker 1: an empty stage and an empty theater, the lights on
Speaker 1: me and total darkness, and I'm like, holy shit, I
Speaker 1: am really intimidated. I'm thinking of all the great actors
Speaker 1: that were on this stage, like I I don't belong here,
Speaker 1: you know, like Usher was on the stage and you know,
Speaker 1: just going down the list of who played this role,
Speaker 1: and it's intimidating to me, and I'm saying I have
Speaker 1: to sing, and I'm like, all right, just whatever you
Speaker 1: do is gonna be a great story with our getting
Speaker 1: or not. So the piano player comes out. He's very professional,
Speaker 1: he's warming up, you know, doing his thing, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: should I be doing the same things here? So I
Speaker 1: just sit back a weak till the stunts is all right,
Speaker 1: Mr George, we're gonna start the top. All I care
Speaker 1: about his love? What key are you in? And I said, uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just pick and pick on. We'll
Speaker 1: figure it out. So we figure like you wore them up,
Speaker 1: and I just have a good time practic notes everywhere.
Speaker 1: I'm just laying it all out there and just doing
Speaker 1: what I have to do. And unbeknownst to me, Barry Weiss,
Speaker 1: the Delete producer, was in the audience. He was like,
Speaker 1: way in the back and we're done about thirty minutes
Speaker 1: and go through the whole thing. He comes down scenarrous
Speaker 1: like this, Oh my god, that was magnificent. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, really, really, you want to be on Broadway?
Speaker 1: And that's how I got to Broadway. Wow, Literally, it's
Speaker 1: not that longer number. So you go from standing backstage
Speaker 1: thinking what the hell am I doing here? I'm an
Speaker 1: impostor too. You're gonna be on Broadway like eight man.
Speaker 1: I think people who have to pivot or reinvent reinvents
Speaker 1: a big word. Sometimes it's more subtle than that, but
Speaker 1: certainly what you did feels like a reinvention. Get worried
Speaker 1: about failure, and the fear of the anxiety can cause
Speaker 1: paralysis and exercise. I've heard people say, as you know,
Speaker 1: just if the worst thing that happens is I get
Speaker 1: a great story out of it, which is what you
Speaker 1: just mentioned that what do you what are you worried about?
Speaker 1: You're gonna have a great story even if you're a
Speaker 1: miserable failure, right right, That's all I looked at it.
Speaker 1: I said, one way or another, it's gonna be an
Speaker 1: awesome story. I'll use it in my speech, you know.
Speaker 1: But when else do you have an opportunity to jump
Speaker 1: into Shakespeare or jump into a musical on treaking Broadway? Man,
Speaker 1: So you got you got a seven a week run,
Speaker 1: and every night it must have been close to the
Speaker 1: feeling of being in the tunnel running out in the
Speaker 1: field when when you're in the wing, so that the
Speaker 1: tunnel and the wings of the theater had to be
Speaker 1: a little bit familiar to you. Just before that that
Speaker 1: live Juice is going. Not without a doubt, Opening Night
Speaker 1: was was magical because I'm underneath the stage and it's
Speaker 1: like literally be a shot out of the cannon. The
Speaker 1: energy just waiting, and it's like, oh my god, odd.
Speaker 1: And that's where the fear really comes in because you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Okay, I just prayed to God one
Speaker 1: that I'm making up the stairs clean. Two, I don't
Speaker 1: forget my fucking words rehearsals one thing, the line deal
Speaker 1: is completely tip. You're just thinking that everything will can
Speaker 1: get downstairs clean and now let it go. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's compared that to the super Bowl. Compare Opening
Speaker 1: Night on Broadway to that feeling, because the super Bowl
Speaker 1: has brought accomplished, brilliant Hall of famers, made them shaking
Speaker 1: their boots. What was it like? How would you make
Speaker 1: the comparison very very similar? Uh? You know, the energy,
Speaker 1: the nerves, because that's that's the that's the granddaddy of
Speaker 1: them all. The Super Bowl and and UM, and going
Speaker 1: into that knowing that all eyes are on all the celebrities, UM,
Speaker 1: every everybody the world is watching this one game and
Speaker 1: you have sixty minutes to show what you can do.
Speaker 1: And the same holds true on Broadway. Every night you
Speaker 1: have people from all over the world from China, London, UM, Japan, UH,
Speaker 1: South America. Every single night there's somebody from around the
Speaker 1: world coming to look at this show, UH and their
Speaker 1: critics in the audience. So there's a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: over you. And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, they're gonna
Speaker 1: come see with a football player is doing on this
Speaker 1: stage and if he can actually has the chops to
Speaker 1: do it. So it's very similar. The energy every night,
Speaker 1: every every single night, and every performance on Broadway is
Speaker 1: definitely like the Super Bowl. There's you don't there's not
Speaker 1: a regular season game on Broadway. Every night is a
Speaker 1: super Bowl night. Every performance. So if you have eight
Speaker 1: performances that week, oh my god, it is you got
Speaker 1: to bring it every single time and and during and
Speaker 1: during my run, ironically, I I lost my voice after
Speaker 1: the first week. The first week and I had three
Speaker 1: more weeks to go, and I remember thinking backstage, oh
Speaker 1: I just blew. I just let everything hang out there.
Speaker 1: I have nothing else to give. And one of the
Speaker 1: veteran dancers, she says, oh, honey, you'll be fine. Here
Speaker 1: take this number. Let's see my doctor. I'll see you
Speaker 1: on Monday. Gave me a shot, gave you just some
Speaker 1: stuff to my throat blow and behold, was right back
Speaker 1: out there on Monday. So there's nothing to fear. The
Speaker 1: show must go on though, right, I mean nothing go on?
Speaker 1: Then the show must go on. Did you get addicted
Speaker 1: to that when the run was over? And now that
Speaker 1: we've been on this period where there really is no
Speaker 1: theater sadly we're waiting for the whole theater community to
Speaker 1: to kind of restart. How's that? How's that void been?
Speaker 1: What have you? What have you used to sort of
Speaker 1: failure your your time and kind of substitute for that energy?
Speaker 1: You know what? Chris? I really just restop to uh
Speaker 1: my my Chicago family. Uh today and yesterday, like man,
Speaker 1: what are you guys doing to hold up? And you know,
Speaker 1: just encouraging one another because it's been it's been tough.
Speaker 1: You know. I did that run. I've been doing the
Speaker 1: run since then around different cities. Uh. In the country
Speaker 1: and and really the world, and UH to have that
Speaker 1: void not filled. It's as you find boredom. There's a
Speaker 1: little fear. UM there's all there's an opportunity to uh
Speaker 1: to work on new projects, to be creative, to write, UM,
Speaker 1: to work on business and some new businesses that I've
Speaker 1: been working focusing on. So I've been filling my time
Speaker 1: with reading U looking at a bunch of shows on Netflix.
Speaker 1: I'm on Luke and right now, which is fantastic. UM.
Speaker 1: Me and my my wife and I UH spending time
Speaker 1: pouring into my son he's a wrestler and a football player,
Speaker 1: working out with him. UH and and really just just
Speaker 1: looking at other opportunities and trusting that that time will come.
Speaker 1: So you know, UM, just keep my jobs sharpen, you know,
Speaker 1: my to keep my things going and just continue to
Speaker 1: read and um is work on different characters when I came,
Speaker 1: and just just just trying to try to stay business same.
Speaker 1: You got the wealth management company. You help athletes sort
Speaker 1: of transition to life after football by taking care of
Speaker 1: the money. I know, that's that's an enjoyable part. You
Speaker 1: like being a mentor, I think, and when you were
Speaker 1: speaking to people in the theater community. Besides the things
Speaker 1: you were describing, many of them also are facing a
Speaker 1: real desperation as a lot of people are in this
Speaker 1: country now, Eddie, when they are forced to pivot. The
Speaker 1: doors were slammed in their face and they don't really
Speaker 1: see an open one right now. And the idea of
Speaker 1: reinvention again can be pretty scary for people. What what
Speaker 1: what do you say? Whether it's the folks that are
Speaker 1: in the theater or anyone else out there that is
Speaker 1: that is wondering, how the hell am I going to
Speaker 1: reinvent myself? I might not be stepping on a Broadway stage,
Speaker 1: but it's got to be something out there for meat, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people are experiencing that um
Speaker 1: and and when one door closes, another one opens up.
Speaker 1: And you have to have enough faith and courage to
Speaker 1: walk down and do that that opening, no matter what
Speaker 1: it is. You know, the unknown is daunting, it's scary,
Speaker 1: it's dark. You just don't know what's out there. But
Speaker 1: you have to have the courage to walk in that.
Speaker 1: And how you have the courage, you know, you have
Speaker 1: to have the guts and and I say this like
Speaker 1: a few of my speeches and guts. I break that
Speaker 1: into acronym is G stands for the gump shition. You know,
Speaker 1: have the courage to take on a new venture or
Speaker 1: a new talent or something that's that that really speaks
Speaker 1: to your heart, that speaks to your soul. And then
Speaker 1: the understanding is putting in the actual work of it
Speaker 1: and gaining the knowledge and becoming a student of it
Speaker 1: and the reading and the preparation and find the right
Speaker 1: teachers for it, UM and becoming a true student of it.
Speaker 1: The tease for tenacity is to persist without exception, take
Speaker 1: don't take no for an answer, look at no as
Speaker 1: an opportunity. UM, you know, to continue to push forward
Speaker 1: towards that. And they ask this for sacrifice is something
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to You're gonna have to give up
Speaker 1: something of your free time. Something is going to take away,
Speaker 1: whether it's your family or um the old ways used
Speaker 1: to think, or whatever that may be. So I I
Speaker 1: tend to think you have to have the guts to
Speaker 1: be willing to say, hey, you know what I was
Speaker 1: in this profession, but that's not who you are. That's
Speaker 1: a job that you that you had. Now is taking
Speaker 1: your passion, your God given talent and finding out what
Speaker 1: is your true service the next phase of your life
Speaker 1: to the world and walking with walk with walk in
Speaker 1: that with confidence and in faith. As you begin to
Speaker 1: think about the reopening of the theater world and what
Speaker 1: opportunities might be out there. What what roles are there? Freddie, George,
Speaker 1: what do you what do you think about? You know,
Speaker 1: partners Awards Washington, Hamlet and George Washington. Well, well Hamilton's,
Speaker 1: but Hamilton was Washington. That's that's that's my next one.
Speaker 1: My wife has been singing that NonStop since he wasson
Speaker 1: on Disney Plus about two months ago during COVID and uh,
Speaker 1: actually I went out for the role of it, didn't
Speaker 1: give it, but I think I'm gonna try to go
Speaker 1: off with George Washington next in the Hamilton's. So that's
Speaker 1: that's my next goal. The father of our country. That's good.
Speaker 1: But obviously Hamilton's speaks to a lot of people because
Speaker 1: it's such fresh energy. But it's certainly challenging. I mean
Speaker 1: that those are those are challenging roles. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: uh find too many more shows that are more challenging
Speaker 1: to perform, you know, linguistically than Hamilton's is yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that or another. Actually, I would let the Worship the
Speaker 1: Third to one day, one day with a little the
Speaker 1: Worship the Third. I did a reading of that about
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago and had so much
Speaker 1: fun being a villain. It was. It was fantastic, It was,
Speaker 1: it was, it was lovely, was juicy. And his words
Speaker 1: that he speaks, Oh my god, it's it's it's incredible
Speaker 1: of it. So um god willing I'll have an opportunity
Speaker 1: to do that. What were the Eddie George of today,
Speaker 1: who has been through all these different chapters, these pivots
Speaker 1: to tell tell the Eddie George us in high school
Speaker 1: would never have dreamed that there was a life after
Speaker 1: a football and identity other than athletics, who would end
Speaker 1: up singing and dancing on the stage and feeling that
Speaker 1: same fire and that same chart from it. I would
Speaker 1: tell him that, you know, football is just the beginning,
Speaker 1: my friend, to put your seatbull to want to get
Speaker 1: ready for one hell of a ride, because that's that's
Speaker 1: what's going to experience. And I think, you know, if
Speaker 1: I were telling some young kids that today is that
Speaker 1: sports in general is just a platform, is just the
Speaker 1: opening to whatever is next in your life. Who knows
Speaker 1: what's next. Um, you have to don't. Don't don't be
Speaker 1: married to the idea of just being a football player.
Speaker 1: Football and we're basketball Baseball is just the avenue of
Speaker 1: what's next. You could be a great politician, you could
Speaker 1: be the president of the United States. You could be
Speaker 1: a doctor, you could be a lawyer, you could be
Speaker 1: a judge, you could be an actor. Um, but stay
Speaker 1: open to that and and and embrace that, and um,
Speaker 1: don't fear it, you know, run to it, and and
Speaker 1: and really be open to learning and being transformed into
Speaker 1: into what's next and all and you and trust that
Speaker 1: you're gonna be prepared. You know, you've already gone through
Speaker 1: a process. You've already gone you already know what it
Speaker 1: takes the reaching mountain shops. So take the same blueprint
Speaker 1: and approach that craft with so much respect and embrace
Speaker 1: it and grow from it. And you're going to get
Speaker 1: there a lot faster wherever that is, and you're want
Speaker 1: to understand a lot better. And that's what I was saying.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate Attie's wisdom. He was known as a
Speaker 1: great teammate and now as a generous CASTMATEE like a
Speaker 1: wait for theaters to reawaken and see what's next for him.
Speaker 1: Maybe that George Washington part in Hamilton that he's after.
Speaker 1: I've also known Clinton Kelly for a couple of decades
Speaker 1: to my wife Jennifer, but only found out in this
Speaker 1: conversation that he just like me. It was a painfully
Speaker 1: shy teenager who worked hard conquering that to achieve the
Speaker 1: life he dreamt of. Well, Clinton, this is gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of fun and also interesting because even though
Speaker 1: we've been friends more than twenty years and you and
Speaker 1: Jennifer are among the best of friends, we've had some
Speaker 1: great times. I still think I'm gonna learn something during
Speaker 1: this conversation about what makes you tick, and I think
Speaker 1: people are gonna find it very useful and helpful. So
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it. Are you ready for that
Speaker 1: new level of closeness, Chris? But only zoom can provide Yes,
Speaker 1: let me open myself up to you. Well, there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of drinks in a lot of weird settings.
Speaker 1: I feel like we's been pretty open. But this is
Speaker 1: this is good. Interesting because you're use of the word reinvention.
Speaker 1: We were kicking around. Ideas for this episode really was
Speaker 1: the spark. And I know it's a favorite word of
Speaker 1: yours and it's important word for so many people right now.
Speaker 1: So let's start with this. When you were just starting
Speaker 1: out on this life's journey, how did you imagine your
Speaker 1: life would unfold and how has what's happened been different
Speaker 1: from that. I had a pretty clear vision of what
Speaker 1: I wanted by life to look like from a pretty
Speaker 1: young age. Like I kind of knew that I wasn't
Speaker 1: meant for the suburbs. So that there's anything wrong with
Speaker 1: the suburbs, it's just it wasn't my cup of tea.
Speaker 1: I always knew that I was meant to sort of
Speaker 1: live in the city and you know, go to fabulous
Speaker 1: dinner parties and and and travel the world and go
Speaker 1: to theater and museums. And that's really what I wanted
Speaker 1: from a very young age. And luckily, well maybe not
Speaker 1: so luckily, I think I had something to do with it. Um,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much the way my life has turned out.
Speaker 1: Like I got exactly what I wanted, um, and I'm
Speaker 1: incredibly grateful for that. But it was a journey to
Speaker 1: get there. Like I you know, I think I've told
Speaker 1: you before and Jed, I was crazy shy growing up,
Speaker 1: like really really shy um from the womb all the
Speaker 1: way to high school graduation. It's just like it was
Speaker 1: something that was in me, like I just couldn't get
Speaker 1: myself to interact with especially my peer group, Like that's
Speaker 1: why it was nothing that I could do. Um. And
Speaker 1: then I realized at one point, I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't get all the things that I want out of
Speaker 1: life if I'm this shy. How am I going to
Speaker 1: you know, talk to people at dinner parties. If I
Speaker 1: can't say hello to a stranger in the supermarket, you know,
Speaker 1: or I can't make a small talk with, um, you know,
Speaker 1: a buddy in high school, you know. UM. So I
Speaker 1: made a conscious effort at at from the time of
Speaker 1: you know, high school graduation to my first day of
Speaker 1: college to reinvent myself as a not shy person. I
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily going for Gregarias, but I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: just not going to be shy. That that was the plan.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty important early reinvention because it kind of
Speaker 1: sets the stage for lots of things. A lot of
Speaker 1: people would say, well, wait a minute, how can I
Speaker 1: just change a part of my personality because I decided
Speaker 1: that it would be a good idea that seems challenging
Speaker 1: to people, just like a lot of these reinventions in
Speaker 1: the professional realm seem initially challenging and would create fear
Speaker 1: and anxiety and all that stuff. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: knowing what you want um and having a plan on
Speaker 1: how to get it is really powerful. I think that
Speaker 1: you have to like really ask yourself, what do I
Speaker 1: want from life? Am I even close to achieving that?
Speaker 1: And if not, how can I get there? And so
Speaker 1: then you have to ask yourself, are all of my
Speaker 1: behaviors serving that purpose, like moving me toward that goal?
Speaker 1: Or they moving me away from that goal? And I
Speaker 1: felt like I am slowly feeling my goals slipping away
Speaker 1: from me because I just am afraid. Like that's what
Speaker 1: it boils down to. It's like, you know, people change
Speaker 1: for you know, people don't change. I would for two reasons,
Speaker 1: Like one is, you don't change it if you're happy,
Speaker 1: Like if you just love your life the way it is,
Speaker 1: there's really no reason to change, right, And then I
Speaker 1: think the other reason people change don't change is that
Speaker 1: like they're afraid they're literally afraid of change. And that
Speaker 1: is a very human response to change, Like we are
Speaker 1: wired to keep the status quo, Like that's what our
Speaker 1: egos want for us, Like do not change. If things change,
Speaker 1: you might die. Um, And so that's why a lot
Speaker 1: of us are just terrified of change. I've heard you
Speaker 1: use the phrase reframe fear, which I think is great because,
Speaker 1: first of all, it acknowledges that fear exists. It's normal.
Speaker 1: It doesn't pretend you can just push it away and
Speaker 1: and move on without dealing with it. What do you
Speaker 1: mean by reframing fear in the context of reinvention? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: really get to the bottom of what your fear is
Speaker 1: all about. Right, So, are are you really afraid of dying?
Speaker 1: Or are you afraid of embarrassing yourself? Are you afraid
Speaker 1: of failure? Like? What does that mean to be afraid
Speaker 1: of failure? Um? So you have to ask yourself first
Speaker 1: of all, like what is the spear really about? Is
Speaker 1: it's fear or is it trepidation or is it anxiety?
Speaker 1: So that there's one aspect of that. But then also
Speaker 1: like the feeling of fear is not really such a
Speaker 1: bad feeling if you think about like sometimes you feel
Speaker 1: like you get the little um you know, that that
Speaker 1: pit in the that or that that feeling in the
Speaker 1: pit of your stomach like I'm afraid. But that's also
Speaker 1: sometimes the same feeling you get when you're madly in
Speaker 1: love with somebody, you know what I mean. Like the
Speaker 1: physical feeling of fear sometimes isn't that much different than
Speaker 1: the physical feeling of love, you know, um, And so
Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself, is this really fear? Or
Speaker 1: am I actually kind of excited about this? Like fear
Speaker 1: and excitement are very close cousins. And I think the
Speaker 1: chemicals are the same. Yeah, the chemicals in the brain
Speaker 1: are exactly the same. And and to think that, so
Speaker 1: like so many others you profess, you know, becoming comfortable
Speaker 1: being uncomfortable, because without without getting out of the comfort zone,
Speaker 1: most feel grow it is impossible. A reinvention is really
Speaker 1: difficult as well. So taking those initial steps, what what tools,
Speaker 1: what devices have you used, especially when you're starting out
Speaker 1: and you you don't have all this experience of these
Speaker 1: successful reinventions to drop on. But when you're in that
Speaker 1: initial stage, well, I think that baby steps are probably
Speaker 1: the best way to do things, like um, I remember
Speaker 1: so when I first decided not to be shy anymore. Um,
Speaker 1: let's just don't want to take you back to what
Speaker 1: it was like to be me as a kid, Like
Speaker 1: I literally didn't speak in high school unless I was
Speaker 1: spoken to by a teacher, Like for four years. I
Speaker 1: never raised my hand to say I know the answer,
Speaker 1: or even ask a question if I didn't know the answer.
Speaker 1: Like I just did not speak, um in my childhood.
Speaker 1: I did not speak to strangers period, end of story.
Speaker 1: Like there are a couple of kids on the block
Speaker 1: that I was friends with. It that's cool, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, I missed out on like playing all the
Speaker 1: pin the tail on the donkey. You know, I've missed
Speaker 1: out on all the pinatas and all that stuff that
Speaker 1: kids were having fun with their birthday parties. I was
Speaker 1: sitting with the adult um talking about the you know,
Speaker 1: the deviled eggs and maybe they should have a little
Speaker 1: bit of finely mints celery in them, or you know,
Speaker 1: like talking about like, uh, the milkman coming to you know,
Speaker 1: to Janet's house on Wednesday, when the milk deliveries on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: you know, like like ship like that, like that that's
Speaker 1: the way I used to like live my life not
Speaker 1: talking to any of my peers, just two adults UM.
Speaker 1: And then I decided like, Okay, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do this anymore. I go to college, right, and then
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to people. But
Speaker 1: I was terrified those first few days of of you
Speaker 1: know what's that called, um the first few days of college.
Speaker 1: So I'm terrified at orientation, like at the verge of
Speaker 1: throwing up all day every day for orientation. Then my
Speaker 1: r A calls a meeting in the in the dorm
Speaker 1: and I go down into the dorm the lounge area,
Speaker 1: and there are some there are three girls sitting in
Speaker 1: a booth and one of the girls moves over so
Speaker 1: that I can sit down next to her. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, she just moved over and I have
Speaker 1: to sit next to her. And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my everything is in me as saying just just like
Speaker 1: say it, sit there, maybe say hello, and then not
Speaker 1: say anything else. But she said hi, how are you?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm good, how are you. My name's Clinton.
Speaker 1: Now this was a big deal for me at the
Speaker 1: age of eighteen, to say my name is Clinton. And
Speaker 1: she said my name is Cheryl, this is Judy, this
Speaker 1: is Amy. Um, and then we started talking and I
Speaker 1: was like, it was that little baby step of saying hi,
Speaker 1: my name is Clinton. That's that was the baby step.
Speaker 1: And then you realize, oh, I didn't die, Like that's
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe I can do this another time.
Speaker 1: And then so I started just like saying hi to people,
Speaker 1: introducing myself. And that seems like dull for most people,
Speaker 1: is like, of course gonna introduce yourself. No, for me,
Speaker 1: it was a really big deal. But it was like
Speaker 1: one little step after the other after the other, like
Speaker 1: and um, you know, like accepting an invitation to a
Speaker 1: party was a big deal for me. Um. So I
Speaker 1: would say that that's the that's the thing that most
Speaker 1: people could do pretty easily. Just find one baby step
Speaker 1: that you could take to move view closer to the
Speaker 1: dream of the you that you want to be. One
Speaker 1: baby step and see what happens. Like and I always
Speaker 1: play this, Oh here's another this is the thing that
Speaker 1: I love. I'm sorry, Chris, I'm there's a ramblin on here.
Speaker 1: Luckily you have an editor. I always play a little
Speaker 1: game with myself, which is what's the best thing that
Speaker 1: could happen? What's the worst thing that could happen? Okay,
Speaker 1: that's It's pretty much a methodology that I use every
Speaker 1: day in my life just to a certain degree. Like
Speaker 1: when I whenever I'm pushing myself to do something I
Speaker 1: haven't done before, what's the best thing that can happen?
Speaker 1: When you say hello to a stranger? You might make
Speaker 1: a best friend? You know, Um, what's the worst thing
Speaker 1: that can happen? When you say hello to a stranger
Speaker 1: they tell you to you know, screw off? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to you. Generally, what happens
Speaker 1: is something in the middle. Like every time, something in
Speaker 1: the middle is going to happen, Like maybe you'll just
Speaker 1: have a boring interaction where they say hi, you say hi,
Speaker 1: You part ways, But that's the beauty of life. Like
Speaker 1: the things on the extreme really really rarely happen. So
Speaker 1: do you this this is something you've carried on whether
Speaker 1: or not it's a question much later in life, after
Speaker 1: you've overcome your shyness. You should I start a fashion line?
Speaker 1: Should I take this TV opportunity? Should I say no
Speaker 1: to this public appearance? Do you have this conversation what's
Speaker 1: the best and worst? Every time I have that all
Speaker 1: the time. That's what's the best and what's the worst?
Speaker 1: Is basically how I lived my entire life, Like, what's
Speaker 1: the worst thing that can happen? Okay, well that's probably
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. What's the best thing that can happen. Well,
Speaker 1: that's probably not gonna happen to either. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty comfortable with all the stuff in the middle.
Speaker 1: The reinvention that kind of launched you onto the first
Speaker 1: of many popular, long running TV shows is interesting to me. Um,
Speaker 1: you had not yet sort of become someone associated with
Speaker 1: the fashion industry, and because Jennifer's involved, I know the
Speaker 1: background of the story. You see a magazine cover, take
Speaker 1: a strong opinion, and boom, pretty soon that gets you
Speaker 1: working for that magazine, which gets you what not to wear,
Speaker 1: and the rest is history. But that that that lightning
Speaker 1: bolt moment was was really an unlike placed for a reinvention,
Speaker 1: right at a friends house, staring in a magazine, but
Speaker 1: boom that happened. It was I guess somebody a friend
Speaker 1: of mine once described me as a frog on a
Speaker 1: lily pad, and for some reason, I know exactly when
Speaker 1: to jump when that next lily pad is about to
Speaker 1: just rise up to the surface, I seem to know
Speaker 1: exactly when to jump on it, which I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the lack part of it, but you know
Speaker 1: that's only you have to jump off the lily pad
Speaker 1: in the first place and trust that it's going to
Speaker 1: be there. So the story that you're referred to is, yes, uh,
Speaker 1: one random evening in Jennifer's old apartment on what was
Speaker 1: that third avenue? Um, you know, really changed everything the
Speaker 1: course of my life because I was working in trade magazines,
Speaker 1: which are basically magazines that people only in a certain
Speaker 1: trade would read like, um, you know it. Worked in
Speaker 1: a magazine called sports Style, which was a magazine for
Speaker 1: like the sporting goods industry that nobody had ever heard
Speaker 1: of before. But I never worked in consumer magazines. Um,
Speaker 1: like you know, consumer would be like g Q or
Speaker 1: Vogue and all that stuff. So I mean Jennifer's apartment,
Speaker 1: we're having wine. Um, she's fixing or Derv's you know,
Speaker 1: she puts out it. She does a good cheese board,
Speaker 1: as you know. Um, so she's making a spread in
Speaker 1: the kitchen. I'm flipping through her magazines on her coffee table,
Speaker 1: and one is Marie Claire. And I'm flipping through Marie
Speaker 1: Claire and I'm like, literally, this is the craziest magazine
Speaker 1: I've ever read in my life. Um. They had an
Speaker 1: article called how many men have you slept with this week?
Speaker 1: And they had all these women holding up big numbers
Speaker 1: like zero, one, three, And I was like, I need
Speaker 1: to work for this magazine. I need to do this
Speaker 1: from my living So I was like, I have no
Speaker 1: idea how I'm going to reinvent myself from a guy
Speaker 1: who's editing sports Style magazine to a guy who's editing
Speaker 1: Marie Claire. You know, a very well known you know,
Speaker 1: consumer magazine had Fashion magazine, no less. So I wrote
Speaker 1: the editor in chief a letter saying, look, I don't
Speaker 1: know you from a hole in the wall. You don't me,
Speaker 1: You don't know me from a hole in the wall.
Speaker 1: I don't even know anybody who knows you. Like, there's
Speaker 1: no seven degrees of separation here at all. Six degrees
Speaker 1: of separation. But I promise you that if you agree
Speaker 1: to meet with me for fifteen minutes, I will bring
Speaker 1: you one hundred story ideas. Um. And you know, story
Speaker 1: ideas are like gold in the magazine industry. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and basically she got a letter back from
Speaker 1: her assistant, you know, Glenda Bailey would love to see you. Um,
Speaker 1: let us know what time works for you. I came
Speaker 1: in with a list of one hundred story ideas typed out.
Speaker 1: Jen helped, you know. I think that we were having
Speaker 1: wine and we came up with a few together. Um
Speaker 1: that's like seven per minute by the way, that's that
Speaker 1: seven seven ideas per minute of the interview that you
Speaker 1: were committed to. Yeah. Serious, I was in there like
Speaker 1: it worked. I mean to what degree has is like
Speaker 1: fake it till you make it been a part of
Speaker 1: it because you you got hired there, you got a
Speaker 1: name in the fashion industry. And then this this show
Speaker 1: What Not to Wear, which had been imported from the
Speaker 1: UK and now is being started in America. Boom. Clinton
Speaker 1: Kelly is the person to co host this show based
Speaker 1: on what you based on that leap you took to
Speaker 1: get to the magazine. Yeah, I mean the concept of
Speaker 1: fake it ty and make it is interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Because like what does that? What does that mean? Like
Speaker 1: what I didn't feel like I was faking anything? Like
Speaker 1: I really felt as though I was going to try
Speaker 1: my absolute hardest. I had like a kernel of you know, experience,
Speaker 1: and I was going to blow that kernel up into
Speaker 1: a giant bucket of popcorn just given the response, you know,
Speaker 1: giving the opportunity. So that's pretty much what I did.
Speaker 1: Every time that new opportunity came up. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm the right guy for this job. And I really
Speaker 1: believed every single time that I was the right guy
Speaker 1: for this job because I knew that I would work
Speaker 1: my ass off at every single job, like I just
Speaker 1: have it in me to like do the best that
Speaker 1: I can possibly do. So I didn't know a lot
Speaker 1: about fashion, but I bought every fashion magazine you know,
Speaker 1: on the news stands every single month. I read them
Speaker 1: from cover to cover. I memorized them, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I bought like fashion encyclopedias, and I just would just
Speaker 1: do my homework. So at a certain point, I wasn't
Speaker 1: really faking it anymore, Like I was living the life
Speaker 1: like I had all the knowledge, um, and I had
Speaker 1: the ambition, and I had the work ethic. So that
Speaker 1: was good to go. Your ability to connect with people
Speaker 1: in the audience, but guests is so tremendous is why
Speaker 1: you've been a great host in the topic, whether it's
Speaker 1: fashion or food and much more at the Chew and
Speaker 1: now it's um self made mansions, where it's home selections
Speaker 1: and life self. It's the common thread as you're you're
Speaker 1: dealing with people and you're you're sort of connecting with them,
Speaker 1: but coaxing them to reinvent themselves, even though you have
Speaker 1: experienced doing it, is a whole another thing because the
Speaker 1: reinvention is not UM intervention right intervention, although what not
Speaker 1: to where the premise was was others trying to push
Speaker 1: you in this direction. There has to be a reckoning
Speaker 1: within the individual right before there can be a reinvention
Speaker 1: and we can force it on you or really make
Speaker 1: you do it right. That is probably one of the
Speaker 1: biggest life lessons that any human being can learn. You
Speaker 1: cannot change somebody who does not want to be changed.
Speaker 1: That's it's just not going to UM. So once you
Speaker 1: wrap your head around that and you're trying to help
Speaker 1: people reinvent themselves, like you have to really ask them
Speaker 1: do you really want this change or not? Um So,
Speaker 1: you know that cuts out a solid I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: fifty of people right there on on what not to
Speaker 1: wear it Like most of those people did not want
Speaker 1: to be changed, you know, they were in it just
Speaker 1: start about to be on TV or just to get
Speaker 1: some new free clothes, I guess. Um. But the people
Speaker 1: who did want to change, that's exciting. That's what I
Speaker 1: love working with, you know, Like when you say to me,
Speaker 1: like I want a new lifestyle, like let's do it,
Speaker 1: like let's create it, Like let's let's throw away everything
Speaker 1: that you have right now and just start from scratch. Um,
Speaker 1: that's isn't it fun? Like that? I know it's terrifying
Speaker 1: some people, but I just love it everything. I would
Speaker 1: reinvent myself every you know, every week if I could.
Speaker 1: But did you see getting new clothes for people or
Speaker 1: or in this case it's a new home and sell
Speaker 1: my mansions? Is that is that reinvention? Or is it
Speaker 1: is it some smaller component that leads to a larger
Speaker 1: kind of resh aping at their life or their outlook,
Speaker 1: because you would you'd hope that okay, here, here's five
Speaker 1: new pants suits rather than have different stuff to where
Speaker 1: it's going to change the way you feel about yourself,
Speaker 1: which is the most important. Himpotus to kind of change
Speaker 1: your life. Right, Well, reinvention really is a spectrum, don't
Speaker 1: you think like you can? You know, people might assume
Speaker 1: that reinvention means like you are literally scrapping everything about
Speaker 1: your life and re emerging as a completely different person. That's,
Speaker 1: you know, that would be a very dramatic case of reinvention.
Speaker 1: But I think that throwing out clothes that don't suit
Speaker 1: your purposes, and clothes that you don't really like, let's say,
Speaker 1: and then just buying five new suits that you really
Speaker 1: do like that reflect who you are as a person,
Speaker 1: is really a form of reinvention, you know. And when
Speaker 1: you buy a new house, you are reinventing yourself to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, you know, because you're like saying, this
Speaker 1: house that we're in now doesn't really work for us anymore,
Speaker 1: so let's find a house that does work for us.
Speaker 1: That's that's a form of reinvention. So you know, that's
Speaker 1: like I said, of those baby steps, you can just
Speaker 1: go a little bit, you know, a new suit here,
Speaker 1: a new haircut there, you know, learning a new recipe today,
Speaker 1: learning another new recipe next week, thinking redecorating a room
Speaker 1: next month. You know, these are all ways that you
Speaker 1: can go from just small changes to a drastic reinvention.
Speaker 1: Over the course of time, you shifted careers into so
Speaker 1: many different kinds of shows and and had to take
Speaker 1: that leap. What what has been sort of the key
Speaker 1: to coming up with the self confidence and the belief
Speaker 1: that this this new door that you're opening is going
Speaker 1: to work out. Okay, Well, I think I know who
Speaker 1: I am at this point in my life. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that I did when I was, you know, thirty,
Speaker 1: and then it started, you know, and by my mid thirties,
Speaker 1: I really started to understand who I was, what I
Speaker 1: wanted in life, what was important to me. You know,
Speaker 1: I did a lot of journaling, I did a lot
Speaker 1: of you know sort of I read a lot of
Speaker 1: self help books. Um, And what it boils down to
Speaker 1: is like I just know what I'm all about now,
Speaker 1: Like I know what is important to me. I know
Speaker 1: what my priorities in life are. I know whom I
Speaker 1: want to surround myself with. So anytime I go into
Speaker 1: a new project now I don't think like that anything
Speaker 1: bad is going to happen, Like, what, what's the worst
Speaker 1: thing that can possibly happen that, you know, the job
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, it fails, Okay, I know that I'm
Speaker 1: a hard worker. I'll find something else that does work. Like, so,
Speaker 1: I don't care if it. I don't even think that
Speaker 1: a failure is an option. I mean it's not. It's
Speaker 1: not even there on the on the table for me.
Speaker 1: It's like, either it's going to be a great experience
Speaker 1: or it's not gonna be a great experience, but I
Speaker 1: will learn something from it so that I will turn
Speaker 1: it into a great experience. UM. Has always been that way.
Speaker 1: We're focusing on all the successful shows and the projects
Speaker 1: that are the result of reinvention that's worked out great.
Speaker 1: Is every reinvention worked out so damn great that you
Speaker 1: don't even think that fear is a an option. Or
Speaker 1: there have been ones where they think about some things
Speaker 1: that that have failed. In mind, I'm happy to talk
Speaker 1: about that. So I you know, I, UM, I've written
Speaker 1: some books that didn't sell all that well. UM, some
Speaker 1: that did sell really well. But then you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think like, oh I failed because this book didn't
Speaker 1: sell well, Like, Okay, it resonated with some people, didn't
Speaker 1: resonate with fifty million people. That doesn't mean that I
Speaker 1: failed at it. Like I had a clothing line for
Speaker 1: a while, um, and I really enjoyed doing it for
Speaker 1: a while, and then I enjoy I didn't enjoy doing
Speaker 1: it anymore because what was selling was we're things that
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be selling, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't I had a strong, strong feeling of
Speaker 1: what the clothes should look like. Um, and the things
Speaker 1: that we're selling were these comfy clothes, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to like be known for selling comfy clothes. Uh.
Speaker 1: So I was like, all right, let's just let's pull
Speaker 1: the plug on that. Uh. But I don't think it
Speaker 1: was a failure, Like Okay, Like I don't. I'm not
Speaker 1: meant to be a clothing designer, but I gave it
Speaker 1: a shot and it was fun until it wasn't fun.
Speaker 1: But that's a tremendously evolved and useful way of viewing it.
Speaker 1: Because you mentioned earlier reframing fear reframing failure, I'm giving
Speaker 1: the air quotes because some people might define it as failure.
Speaker 1: You you've evolved to a place where you understand that
Speaker 1: that does not mean that you're an awful person that
Speaker 1: you suck at book writing or close designing. It just
Speaker 1: means that you know, it didn't work out in the
Speaker 1: commercial sense or no longer was fun. Move on that.
Speaker 1: That's so healthy and so hard for a lot of people, right,
Speaker 1: and you know we what it usually boils down to
Speaker 1: for people as are you're afraid of failure? What does
Speaker 1: that mean? Are you afraid that people are going to
Speaker 1: laugh at you because you didn't do as well as
Speaker 1: you thought you might do? Like, are you afraid that
Speaker 1: people are going to criticize you? Like you have to
Speaker 1: get to a certain point in life where you just
Speaker 1: don't care what anybody else thinks of you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really don't like if somebody comes up to me.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I hate you on that show.
Speaker 1: Okay the check cleared, you know, you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: still a happy person, Like I got all I gotta
Speaker 1: I gotta roof over my head, and I got a
Speaker 1: nice marriage, and I got great friends, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: I got my health. You don't like me, so suck it.
Speaker 1: I don't care. That is so free as then you
Speaker 1: get to that point that you're not sort of like it'
Speaker 1: tethered or enslaved. That's a strong word, but some people
Speaker 1: are enslaved to the opinions of others and their self
Speaker 1: belief is so fragile and um. If you can work
Speaker 1: through that and get to a place where you just
Speaker 1: don't care that much, man, it it does make that
Speaker 1: what's the best, what's the worst conversation a lot easier
Speaker 1: to have. It's it's true, it's true to start asking
Speaker 1: yourself why you care so much about what other people think,
Speaker 1: especially strangers. Like you know, if you and jen said
Speaker 1: to me, like if you had if you called me
Speaker 1: out to dinner one night and you were like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, we're really disappointed in you because you did this,
Speaker 1: Like that would bother me, Like that would bother me,
Speaker 1: but like you know, some rando just telling them that
Speaker 1: they don't like my face. Like, okay, we've had some
Speaker 1: good dinner conversations that have gotten I don't know, they're
Speaker 1: up their arguments, but spirited, spirited debates, And Jennifer has
Speaker 1: begged me not to let that happen in this podcast,
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to. I knew it. I knew
Speaker 1: then you guys were gonna have that conversation. I knew
Speaker 1: it because you and I will have We will agree
Speaker 1: to disagree, but neither of us has gonna back down,
Speaker 1: and we're just gonna take it to the next level.
Speaker 1: I love that about our friendship. I really do like
Speaker 1: we can disagree so strongly with each other. I should
Speaker 1: we let people in on what I said to you.
Speaker 1: The last time we went out to dinner was just
Speaker 1: the three of us, you, me, and jen I said,
Speaker 1: you're driving me crazy with something to say. I said, Chris,
Speaker 1: I want to reach across this table right now and
Speaker 1: straggle you and Jennifer's space was like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Unfortunately the table was long enough that that what that
Speaker 1: wasn't literally gonna happen. But I think that's great. I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to get caught up in a semantic
Speaker 1: debate because we both think words are important. We both
Speaker 1: love words, and reinvention is a big word that means
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Two different people like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I have to tear my life down and then rebuild
Speaker 1: it so that it's unrecognizable, because that's one definition of reinvention.
Speaker 1: That's not what you're talking about. That's not what you've done.
Speaker 1: You've not made you yourself unrecognizable as you moved through
Speaker 1: these professional phases. Yeah, I feel like, having heard you
Speaker 1: say that, I should write a book called Little Pivots,
Speaker 1: Like that's what I think reinvention is, Like, that's my definition.
Speaker 1: Like that's at least that's the easiest way to do it.
Speaker 1: I think it takes a little bit longer than waking
Speaker 1: up one day and saying I'm gonna burn down this
Speaker 1: house and these clothes and start all over again with
Speaker 1: a new name and a new haircut. You know. I
Speaker 1: think it's just it's a lot easier to make a
Speaker 1: little pivot every single day for the next you know,
Speaker 1: three years, and then you know, you wake up three
Speaker 1: years from now you're like, wow, I'm living the exact
Speaker 1: life that I wanted to. So many people have gone
Speaker 1: through upheaval. It's not just the planet, it's within workplaces,
Speaker 1: within households of all sorts in the last year or so,
Speaker 1: and so many people clinton have had not just doors closed,
Speaker 1: but doors slammed in their face and they can no
Speaker 1: longer go through that one. They have to stand in
Speaker 1: there in the corridor and figure out how to open
Speaker 1: a new door, and what that door is going to
Speaker 1: look like and feel like, and where that next door
Speaker 1: leads to what what what advice would you have for
Speaker 1: people that that are are forced to make changes and
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable or anxious about that. Yeah, I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, we're living through an unprecedented time and in
Speaker 1: at least in modern history. Um. Like, yeah, people, a
Speaker 1: lot of people are going through a really, really tough time.
Speaker 1: And it's easy to say, like just make a pivot
Speaker 1: and you'll you know, you'll h your whole life will
Speaker 1: change with the pandemic going on. So you know, there's that,
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that now is a good
Speaker 1: time for people to take stock of how they would
Speaker 1: like to re emerge from this. You know, like, if
Speaker 1: you've got a little bit of downtime, you know, take
Speaker 1: out a notebook and grab a pen and just write
Speaker 1: on the top of the page, what do I want
Speaker 1: my life to look like post pandemic? And then really
Speaker 1: just create this vision of yourself in your new life,
Speaker 1: and then on the next page, maybe the next day
Speaker 1: or a few days later, just ask yourself what little
Speaker 1: steps can I take to get there? You know, um,
Speaker 1: because this is going to end at some point, and
Speaker 1: it's a perfect opportunity for you to say to yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, everything that I did pre pandemic, is does
Speaker 1: it work for me anymore? So I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have a different outlook. And the thing is, nobody's gonna
Speaker 1: be paying attention to you and the changes that you
Speaker 1: made after the pandemic. Right it's a perfect opportunity for
Speaker 1: you to make some slide changes that can sort of
Speaker 1: slip under the radar. Everybody's gonna be like going through
Speaker 1: their own changes, going to be re emerging in their
Speaker 1: own way, being excited about that that you're just gonna
Speaker 1: be able to sort of do whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you want to do. So take advantage of the opportunities
Speaker 1: that will come to you eventually, even if you don't
Speaker 1: have them right now. But I would say, right now,
Speaker 1: be as creative as you possibly can. If a door
Speaker 1: is slammed in your face, you know, either you you
Speaker 1: break down the door or you cut a hole in
Speaker 1: the wall next to the door to get into the door.
Speaker 1: You know, like you have to say to yourself, like
Speaker 1: just because somebody says no, you can't do this, that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't do this. Like you're letting
Speaker 1: other people have too much control over you. If they
Speaker 1: have told you you can't do this, and you have
Speaker 1: agreed with them, like you basically relinquished all of your
Speaker 1: control over your life over the or to another person.
Speaker 1: Now that's great advice. I think that people read books
Speaker 1: and hear speeches and people say all experience is growth.
Speaker 1: I happen to believe that all kinds of experiences grow.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the more challenging the experience, the bigger the opportunity
Speaker 1: for growth. But it's a hard thing for people to
Speaker 1: have to hear right now. You know, a loss of
Speaker 1: identity can be very scary, and people are are attached
Speaker 1: to their jobs as their identity. I think so many
Speaker 1: people in American society, maybe more than other cultures, we
Speaker 1: are guilty of we are what we do for money,
Speaker 1: and I think when you have that attached your identity
Speaker 1: and then you don't have control over your job situation,
Speaker 1: it's it's very frightening. How how do people separate sort
Speaker 1: of what they do for money from who they are
Speaker 1: and what they're capable of doing. Well. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you brought this topic up because it's something that I
Speaker 1: think about a lot, and I especially have thought about
Speaker 1: a lot over the past I mean years I've been
Speaker 1: working now like forty something. I started working at the
Speaker 1: age of thirteen, so um, you know, people have asked
Speaker 1: me like, what's your passion? What's your passion? And they're
Speaker 1: always like expecting you to fill in the blank with
Speaker 1: some sort of career passion. Right there, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: you know, is your passion television? No? Why on Earth
Speaker 1: and my passion be television. Look, it's the worst industry
Speaker 1: in the world. You know, it's the worst awful people
Speaker 1: you've ever met, you know it. That's another podcast episode Clinton,
Speaker 1: I guess that is or you know, is your passion? Fashion?
Speaker 1: You know, is your passion? Cooking? You know? Is your passion?
Speaker 1: Real estate? You know? It's like, No, none of those
Speaker 1: things are my passion. You know, my passion is my
Speaker 1: life outside of work. Like I work so that I
Speaker 1: can have the life that I want to have outside
Speaker 1: of work. That's not to say that I don't love
Speaker 1: what I do. I absolutely do of what I do.
Speaker 1: I you know, I have a passion for helping people
Speaker 1: make decisions or make their lives better. So I like
Speaker 1: to give people information with a sense of humor. Like
Speaker 1: that's what That's what I like to do. Like, that's
Speaker 1: who I am at my core. I give information with
Speaker 1: a sense of humor, so I want you to laugh
Speaker 1: and maybe think about how your life can be made
Speaker 1: a little bit better. Like but is that my passion?
Speaker 1: My bird? Like am I do? I define myself as
Speaker 1: you know, a television host who does not know absolutely not,
Speaker 1: like you are not your job. I would say to
Speaker 1: anybody who you know, when if I were to ask you, like,
Speaker 1: who tell me a little bit about Chris Fowler? I
Speaker 1: would ask yourself if you're gonna put you, you know,
Speaker 1: like sportscaster like I wouldn't. I definitely would not say
Speaker 1: what I do for money, But I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of people do. That's the first thing tell me
Speaker 1: about yourself. Well I'm a lawyer, Well I'm a nurse.
Speaker 1: That as though, that's the most important thing about you
Speaker 1: is what you do for forty hours a week or
Speaker 1: more and what you get a paycheck for. I think
Speaker 1: as soon as we free ourselfialm that idea and begin
Speaker 1: to think of ourselves as whole people who are much
Speaker 1: more than what we do, then I think you give
Speaker 1: less less power to other people. Yeah, I agree, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a sort of a tricky question. Tell me
Speaker 1: about you like that. It's the easiest answer is to
Speaker 1: tell people what you do for a living because you
Speaker 1: do that, you know, forty hours a week, maybe more,
Speaker 1: but that's really not who you are, and unless you
Speaker 1: really are your job, Like, some people just have no life.
Speaker 1: But they do have to reinvent themselves if they if
Speaker 1: they were going through a situation where they're unemployed or
Speaker 1: untethered to a job, and that that loss of identity
Speaker 1: is depressing, causes them anxiety, causes them loneliness, all kinds
Speaker 1: of things. Then it's emergency reavention time. You have to
Speaker 1: find a way to not think of yourself as a
Speaker 1: person without a job and who you know, who you
Speaker 1: are as a complete person. But not easy. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not easy. I think sometimes when people lose a job,
Speaker 1: and I've been in this situation before, like when you
Speaker 1: lose a job that you really like, it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: like he feels a part of you has died because
Speaker 1: that job no longer exists. I feel like it's like
Speaker 1: I miss doing what I like doing for a living.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like sometimes when your job brings you joy,
Speaker 1: like you're like and that gets taken away from you,
Speaker 1: it's your You have to mourn the loss of the
Speaker 1: joy as much as the loss of the paychecks. Sometimes, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like I I really had a good
Speaker 1: time at work. Um, I got a lot of personal um,
Speaker 1: you know, satisfaction out of my job, and now it's
Speaker 1: been taken away from me. Where am I going to
Speaker 1: find that personal satisfaction? So you have to sort of
Speaker 1: ask yourself, like, is there another way for me to
Speaker 1: get that in my life? Um? And maybe your job
Speaker 1: isn't the only way for you to get it, you know,
Speaker 1: like sometimes you have to do a job just for
Speaker 1: the money, um, And there are lots of people who
Speaker 1: do their jobs just for the money. But you have
Speaker 1: to say to yourself, what what is it that I
Speaker 1: love to do? You know, like is it fishing? Is
Speaker 1: it some sort of like, you know, some sort of hobby,
Speaker 1: some sort of sport, Like you can get personal satisfaction
Speaker 1: from that, And that's just okay, that's that's totally acceptable.
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you to explain your tattoo and
Speaker 1: how it reflects your outlook in life. But we're not
Speaker 1: talking about barbed wire around a bicep. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit more meaningful tattoos. And I did. This reminds me
Speaker 1: of when uh, Halloween years ago in the nineties. I
Speaker 1: guess it was my friends and I went for Halloween's
Speaker 1: gay stereotypes. Um, and I I went as like a
Speaker 1: muscle daddy or so like a leather daddy, I think
Speaker 1: it was. And I had like this. I put a
Speaker 1: barbed wire tattoo around my arm and it said cliche. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I have a tattoo on my over my heart. Um
Speaker 1: that says luckiest, but it says it in reverse, so
Speaker 1: that when I look in the mirror, I read it luckiest. Um.
Speaker 1: It's not for anybody else, It's just for me as
Speaker 1: a daily reminder that I am indeed the luckiest person
Speaker 1: in the whole world. UM. And I believe that, and
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, it's just another way of
Speaker 1: saying gratitude, like just just it just reminds me, like
Speaker 1: remember what you've got. You got everything you've ever hoped
Speaker 1: and dreamed for, um, and just be thankful for it
Speaker 1: because like the universe has aligned itself in your favor
Speaker 1: and you've taken advantage of all the opportunities that life
Speaker 1: presented you. UM, and you did the best that you
Speaker 1: could with all of them. And so that's just my
Speaker 1: you know, my daily reminder that I am indeed the luckiest. Well,
Speaker 1: I think gratitude. There are a few things more important
Speaker 1: to express on a daily basis, whatever way people want
Speaker 1: to do it, than that luck is a word that
Speaker 1: means different things to different people. You said opportunities and
Speaker 1: they knew what to do with them, because sometimes luck
Speaker 1: gets shot down as a concept that's integral to success,
Speaker 1: because luck is where preparation meets opportunity. There's all kinds
Speaker 1: of cliches and quotes about it. Luckiest to you carries
Speaker 1: that second piece though, Yeah, you're there are certain things
Speaker 1: you're very fortunate to the universe for. But that wasn't
Speaker 1: the end of the story. That didn't get you to
Speaker 1: where you are, right, It's not like I got my
Speaker 1: life through winning the lottery or like, you know, putting
Speaker 1: it all out read at the roulette able. You know
Speaker 1: it's by the way, you're a terrible roulette player, Chris
Speaker 1: um really the worst? Uh? I can I can laugh
Speaker 1: and freely accept that criticism because I know that it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It just means that
Speaker 1: when I put the money on Red Black came up
Speaker 1: one particular gambling trip at the World's Worst casino and
Speaker 1: Panama by the Way, where a crushing night at the table,
Speaker 1: I lost about, you know, sixty three dollars. So I
Speaker 1: was okay, but right everybody else is winning. I realized
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the exact opposite of what Chris is doing.
Speaker 1: I can win, which is what I did. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, so like I didn't. You know, that's what
Speaker 1: luck means to me. It's like, it's not about casino
Speaker 1: luck or lottery luck. Luck to me is about, um,
Speaker 1: just appreciating everything that I have in my life. And
Speaker 1: I'm just lucky to have it all. Um. And that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I didn't work hard for it, because
Speaker 1: I know that I did. Um, And I had a
Speaker 1: lot of faith in myself. I don't come from a
Speaker 1: family of money. UM. I dug myself out of many holes,
Speaker 1: you know, monetarily, and UM, so I've you know, I've
Speaker 1: worked hard for where I am and I've made some
Speaker 1: smart decisions and I feel good about that. And I'm
Speaker 1: lucky to I'm lucky to have everything that I've ever wanted.
Speaker 1: The newest TV project you deal with people who are
Speaker 1: self made entrepreneurs who have accumulated enough money to now
Speaker 1: enjoy their life. And that's what self made mansions is about.
Speaker 1: Have you seen in these interesting people who are successful
Speaker 1: in different ways a common thread or what what can
Speaker 1: you tell people you found from your experience that has
Speaker 1: led them to this place where they become empowered and
Speaker 1: they they become wealthy enough to buy a nice house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a real combination of having faith in their idea
Speaker 1: and work ethic. So it's like a real belief that
Speaker 1: they can achieve what they want to achieve and then
Speaker 1: also being willing to put the work into it, like
Speaker 1: you know, all day, every day until it pays off.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of these people, I mean, they didn't
Speaker 1: have a penny in the bank at a certain point
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know what, we just feel like
Speaker 1: this could be a success. If so they believed that
Speaker 1: their product could be a success, and then they really
Speaker 1: believe it at their core, and then they were just
Speaker 1: willing to like beg borrow it's nut steal necessarily, but
Speaker 1: like just work their asses off until they achieved it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a real stick tuitiveness that that
Speaker 1: all of these people had in common. You know, not
Speaker 1: one of them really ever seemed to doubt that they
Speaker 1: were going to be a success. Like I I've always
Speaker 1: I've been saying for a long time, you can't have
Speaker 1: something unless you really can see yourself having it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, you can't achieve something until
Speaker 1: you can really visualize yourself achieving it. And that's what
Speaker 1: these people have the vision to know that they would
Speaker 1: be a success. People have told me they don't believe
Speaker 1: in destinations in life as much as directions. That really resonates.
Speaker 1: I believe that every day as a continue process of
Speaker 1: growth and evolution. How many more reinvent mentions do you
Speaker 1: think you have? And what what are you still learning
Speaker 1: about yourself? Even in a pretty evolved state with what
Speaker 1: we both got some years on this, But what are
Speaker 1: you still learning about yourself through this process as you
Speaker 1: continue to reinvent? It's for me, I don't know how
Speaker 1: many reinventions I've got left. We'll see. I mean, um,
Speaker 1: you know, every once in a while, I start getting
Speaker 1: that itch from like I feel like I need something
Speaker 1: else going on in my life. And so then when
Speaker 1: I get that itch, I'll I'll start to pivot in
Speaker 1: a certain way. Um and what am I? What am
Speaker 1: I learning about myself? I will still doubt myself from
Speaker 1: time to time. Um. You know, I think working in
Speaker 1: the television industry can be hard on a person because
Speaker 1: it's not like I doubt myself, but I doubt whether
Speaker 1: like this package is still desired, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like you get to a certain point where like I
Speaker 1: have to ask myself, do I want to be in
Speaker 1: TV anymore? Because I feel like I'm getting you know,
Speaker 1: who wants a middle aged homosexual? Like do people still
Speaker 1: want to see this on their TV sets? Okay? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, but I know that I'm going to do
Speaker 1: something with my life, whether it's on TV or not.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's what it boils down to, Like
Speaker 1: that that's right, that that that that the answer is yes.
Speaker 1: And I don't think those conversations last very off and
Speaker 1: very long, or you wouldn't continue to progress and take
Speaker 1: these leaps that you do into these new projects. But no,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't think we don't none of us
Speaker 1: ever banished self doubt or completely evolve route grow that's
Speaker 1: always going to be there before we wrap. Is there
Speaker 1: a mic drop moment or a statement you want to
Speaker 1: make about reinvention of someone that's gone through it so
Speaker 1: so successfully yourself and help so many other people do it.
Speaker 1: Um away to to sum up the messaging, get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of your fear. Really ask yourself, what are
Speaker 1: you afraid of? Do I want to be afraid of
Speaker 1: this anymore? And then take steps not to be afraid
Speaker 1: of it. I think that's that's what it boils down to,
Speaker 1: like tackle the fear, beat the crap out of it.
Speaker 1: You know, looking in the eye, you're like, you're ugly,
Speaker 1: um and you're not going to have any control over me.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's that's the biggest thing, Like get
Speaker 1: in touch with your fear. Oh I have I know,
Speaker 1: May I have something more profound to say? That's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Are you afraid of dying or you how about this, Chris?
Speaker 1: Are you afraid of dying or are you more afraid
Speaker 1: to die not having done everything you wanted to do?
Speaker 1: That's that's what I realized. I know we're getting to
Speaker 1: this at the end of the interview, but that's what
Speaker 1: I realized was a big motivating factor for me. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to die knowing that I didn't do something
Speaker 1: because I was afraid of doing it. That's deep. That's
Speaker 1: a good mic drop. See dying seems like an appropriate
Speaker 1: topic for the end of a podcast interview. Where do
Speaker 1: you go from there? But I think that's that's great.
Speaker 1: You only live once is a pithy way to say it.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of what you're it. You're saying kind
Speaker 1: of true. Listen, unless you believe in reincarnation, yea, who knows.
Speaker 1: I say all the time, it's like, if there is reincarnation,
Speaker 1: I'm done. I can just be my last trip around.
Speaker 1: I just what canna and I can just come back
Speaker 1: as a bird next time. All right, Clinton in the
Speaker 1: next life will book you as a bird and it
Speaker 1: would be a whole another podcast. But this this has
Speaker 1: been great. I think people have really have gotten a
Speaker 1: lot of this and have we had fun. So I
Speaker 1: appreciate very much your time. Grateful for it. Oh anytime, Chris,
Speaker 1: you know I'm a I'm your number one fan, although
Speaker 1: as your wife can tell you, I have no idea
Speaker 1: what you do for a living. And that is the
Speaker 1: accura right there. And finally, to set the record straight,
Speaker 1: Mr Kelly, I've had some extraordinarily lucky nights at the
Speaker 1: Roulette Wheel, even if it is the worst odds in
Speaker 1: the casino. One borderline psychic experience there, but that's for
Speaker 1: another episode. Maybe you can follow Clinton on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Clinton Kelly o H. If you're reinventing part of yourself
Speaker 1: where you want to, I know that can be deeply challenging,
Speaker 1: but it's also rewarding and it can be fun. And
Speaker 1: I hope you find some of Eddie and Clinton's experiences
Speaker 1: and ideas helpful. Thanks to my co executive producer Jennifer
Speaker 1: Dempster and producer Jason white Hell, and thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: Please subscribe and review and I'll talk to you soon