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Speaker 3: Hello, You'll have reached to VI Israel and the Watchman
Speaker 3: Outreach Ministries. If you would like to speak to aafter
Speaker 3: game and please press three locome by the pounds. Fine,
Speaker 3: good afternoon.
Speaker 4: Me I help you.
Speaker 1: Hey, mister Gamon, my name is Cole. I was looking
Speaker 1: to get more information about your church.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, yes, sir, I'd be happy to talk to you. Cole.
Speaker 4: How did you find out about us?
Speaker 1: So my story is interesting and how I found out
Speaker 1: about your church. My mother when she was really young,
Speaker 1: when she was seventeen, she got pregnant with me. She
Speaker 1: was actually.
Speaker 4: Second married at that time. She was not okay.
Speaker 1: She was scheduled actually to have an abortion with me,
Speaker 1: and oh wow, the abortion clinic that she was scheduled
Speaker 1: to have the abortion in was bombed the day before
Speaker 1: by Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, Cole, I am, first of all, I praised
Speaker 5: the name of Jesus Christ that you are in this world.
Speaker 5: What a what a deliverance, I mean, what a sad
Speaker 5: thing that had to happen for you to get here.
Speaker 4: But my goodness, Now, is your mother still living?
Speaker 1: She is, she is, We're very close.
Speaker 4: Oh that's as marvelous. I bet she is grateful that
Speaker 4: you're not. You're not the victim of an abortion.
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, you know, I really want to I
Speaker 5: want you to know cold that I'm I'm honored to
Speaker 5: be talking with you.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 5: Eric Rudolph was just a very young kid when he
Speaker 5: came through here. His mother was a widowed lady with
Speaker 5: another brother. They had absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4: Some friend told him, you know, that they could stop
Speaker 4: here and probably get some help.
Speaker 5: Eric was a very well mannered, he was very bright,
Speaker 5: gunk kid, and you know, we never heard one word
Speaker 5: again until we heard of this very very alarming story.
Speaker 4: Out of you know, out of the South late in
Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties. That was pretty amazing. We were just,
Speaker 4: you know, we were aghast.
Speaker 5: See, we've never, at any time in our history advocated
Speaker 5: any kind of violence. We would never endorse that. We
Speaker 5: would just simply find that to be rebolting. So we
Speaker 5: never you know, we never in any way ever advanced
Speaker 5: the ideas that Eric picked up. We don't know where
Speaker 5: he got those ideas.
Speaker 4: Let me put it this way, Cole, I would not
Speaker 4: deny for one.
Speaker 5: Moment that I'm very very much opposed to abortion, I'm
Speaker 5: opposed to race mixing, and I am opposed to homosexuality.
Speaker 5: Now what am I supposed to Knowing that he's alleged
Speaker 5: to a bomb, abortion plenty, a homosexual bar, and a
Speaker 5: place where they were racially mixed. I don't know where
Speaker 5: he picked up all those ideas, but those are all
Speaker 5: ideas that I personally, Cole, I can open the Bible
Speaker 5: and show you where abortion is wrong.
Speaker 4: It's murder.
Speaker 5: Race mixing is wrong, It's against God's law. We believe
Speaker 5: that God doesn't want any race to intermingle and change
Speaker 5: their nature and their original design that God gave them.
Speaker 1: It's bizarre to me that Dan Gamon doesn't see his
Speaker 1: part in Eric Rudolf's development. In my opinion, he's probably
Speaker 1: in denial as far as Gamon's concerned. Sure they shared ideologies,
Speaker 1: but that's where the connection ends. Eric Rudolph was, after
Speaker 1: all a lone wolf, right.
Speaker 5: And with regard to homosexuality, I need not mention to
Speaker 5: you that the Bible is very anti homosexuality. God even
Speaker 5: destroyed the whole city named Thodom and Gomorrah of homosexuals.
Speaker 5: So all three of those are terrible, horrible sins, and
Speaker 5: you know, they became the point of Eric's frustration to
Speaker 5: exercise this kind of violence. And that's where I disagree
Speaker 5: wholeheartedly with him, that he made a tragic mistake when
Speaker 5: he went off the deep end and used violence. When
Speaker 5: we teach God's word, his word is very clear, and
Speaker 5: we can do it in a very Christian manner, and
Speaker 5: that's where it stops. We don't carry it any further
Speaker 5: than that.
Speaker 4: Well, Cole, I've got an appointment I have to keep,
Speaker 4: so I'm going to run. But you know, I want
Speaker 4: to thank you for calling me, and I want you
Speaker 4: to just if you don't mind.
Speaker 5: Just remember this one little thought that I'm going to
Speaker 5: say when I end this call.
Speaker 4: Cole. I'm not sure what caused you to want to
Speaker 4: call this number and talk to me, but I'm wondering if.
Speaker 5: There was a higher power that was directing you, and
Speaker 5: will call that higher power the God who created of
Speaker 5: an an earth. You might want to think about coming
Speaker 5: to visit us and learn more about us before you.
Speaker 5: You know, weigh in heavily on judging. And don't you
Speaker 5: find it a little bit interesting that your life was
Speaker 5: spared from a bullish and clinic. Isn't that amazing that
Speaker 5: you came within one day.
Speaker 4: Of not being here.
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time believing that Dan Gamon
Speaker 1: had no direct connection to Eric Rudolf or what motivated
Speaker 1: him to become a terrorist. But here's the thing. I
Speaker 1: do know these so called lone wolves, somewhere down the line,
Speaker 1: they're always part of a pack, whether they know it
Speaker 1: or not. I can't say precisely when and where Eric
Speaker 1: Rudolf began to think of himself as an operative in
Speaker 1: a movement, a soldier in the army of God. But
Speaker 1: at a certain point he knew damn well what he
Speaker 1: was doing, why he was doing it, and how it
Speaker 1: would be perceived. He said it point blank after his
Speaker 1: capture quote. The hope was that my actions would push
Speaker 1: other pro lifers and patriots to bridge the gap between
Speaker 1: their rhetoric and their actions. These attacks were not part
Speaker 1: of some personal vendetta against abortionists, homosexuals, or government agents.
Speaker 1: They were acts of war aimed at damaging, undermining, and
Speaker 1: ultimately overthrowing the liberal establishment in America. When I heard
Speaker 1: they were bringing the Summer Olympics to Atlanta, I thought
Speaker 1: it would make the perfect target. Episode seven, When Ideas
Speaker 1: Become Actions.
Speaker 6: This morning, at four point thirty in the morning, an
Speaker 6: alert Murphy police officer noticed something unusual going on behind
Speaker 6: the Valley Village shopping center here in Murphy. He investigated,
Speaker 6: He called for backup, and ultimately arrested Eric Robert Rudolph
Speaker 6: at about four point thirty am this morning.
Speaker 1: The trial of Eric Rudolph, set to determine the consequences
Speaker 1: for his acts of terror, was originally scheduled for August fourth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Federal Judge Lynnwood Smith delayed the
Speaker 1: start by a year, stating the sheer volume of discovery
Speaker 1: that still must be organized and assimilated by Defense Council
Speaker 1: is staggering.
Speaker 6: As you know, he's charged in connection with the bombings
Speaker 6: of the Centennial Park, the Sandy Ridge Professional Center office building,
Speaker 6: and the double bombings of the other Side Lounge in
Speaker 6: midtown Atlanta. The death of a police officer in Alabama resulted,
Speaker 6: also the death of a person in Atlanta, and about
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty injuries resulted from these bombings.
Speaker 1: Despite the strong evidence connecting him to these horrifying crimes,
Speaker 1: he still had a right to a full thread of defense.
Speaker 7: Richard to this day is one of my best friends.
Speaker 1: This again is former US Attorney Doug Jones. His term
Speaker 1: as US attorney had ended by the time of Rudolph's capture,
Speaker 1: but he still attended many of the proceedings.
Speaker 7: I just know the way Richard Jeffy handles his clients.
Speaker 7: He doesn't make judgments own people at all, and his job,
Speaker 7: he understands, as a defense lawyer, is to get to
Speaker 7: know the client, get to know the cases put the
Speaker 7: government to their burden. He believes that every client, regardless
Speaker 7: of the circumstance, deserves the top notch defense. He can
Speaker 7: endure their trust regardless and I can assure you without
Speaker 7: having sat through any of their conversations or without Richard
Speaker 7: talking to me about it. They didn't talk about the politics.
Speaker 7: Richard let him know that he was his advocate, and
Speaker 7: that probably let him know that the political aspect of this,
Speaker 7: while the government may do X, it doesn't matter to him.
Speaker 7: He has a job and he wants to know everything
Speaker 7: about the client. He wants to understand the facts, and
Speaker 7: he just has that mannerism as good as any lawyer
Speaker 7: that I've ever seen that does criminal defense work.
Speaker 1: It took me months to nail down a time to
Speaker 1: speak with Richard Jaffey, but I finally made the drive
Speaker 1: to Birmingham to sit down with him. With the ac
Speaker 1: blasting on a hot summer day, we settled into what
Speaker 1: would have been the dining room in a two story
Speaker 1: Tudor style home that had been converted into his law office.
Speaker 8: My faith in the justice system today is certainly not
Speaker 8: what it was when I started practicing law, which was
Speaker 8: forty five years ago. I think that when the power
Speaker 8: of government manifests itself, if there aren't people, mainly lawyers,
Speaker 8: willing to stand up and protect the helpless and those
Speaker 8: individuals that don't have power, then the democracy as we
Speaker 8: know it will completely evaporate.
Speaker 1: Richard's colleagues often refer to him as Atticus Finch, the
Speaker 1: protagonist from Taquilla Mockingbird. In the novel Atticust defends a
Speaker 1: black man falsely accused of rape in the small town
Speaker 1: of may coom, Alabama, during the Great Depression. As is
Speaker 1: the case for many lawyers in the South, the character
Speaker 1: of Atticus Finch served as an influence in Richard's decision
Speaker 1: to become a defense attorney to do the work of
Speaker 1: representing marginalized or seemingly guilty defendants.
Speaker 8: In representing both the apparently innocent and the apparently guilty,
Speaker 8: our ethical responsibilities to provide the most zealous representation we're
Speaker 8: capable of are the same. The scariest thing is to
Speaker 8: represent someone that is apparently or obviously innocent and where
Speaker 8: there is a significant lack of proof, in knowing that
Speaker 8: if we have to go to trial and we lose,
Speaker 8: it's basically hard to forget.
Speaker 1: I asked Jaffe how the opportunity to represent Rudolph even
Speaker 1: came to him.
Speaker 8: Well, I was in the federal courtroom of Judge Lindwood Smith,
Speaker 8: an excellent judge, and I was representing, along with my team,
Speaker 8: a lawyer charged with witness tampering, and we were arguing
Speaker 8: over discovery when suddenly the assistant of Judge Smith came
Speaker 8: up to him and whispered in his ear. He recessed
Speaker 8: abruptly and came back, and then we learned that Eric
Speaker 8: Rudolph had been arrested.
Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph was staring down a potential death penalty sentence.
Speaker 1: At this point, of the fifty people he had defended
Speaker 1: who were facing the death penalty, none had been executed.
Speaker 8: To represent somebody for a federal death penalty crime, the
Speaker 8: court is obligated to a point what's called learned counsel,
Speaker 8: and that means someone who is skilled in death penalty,
Speaker 8: federal death penalty work and trained.
Speaker 1: Jeffy recalls his friend and colleague, Bruce Gardner, nudging the
Speaker 1: judge as at that time Alabama had only one such
Speaker 1: qualified lawyer.
Speaker 8: So we finished the hearing in the case was continued,
Speaker 8: and Bruce walked up to Judge Smith and said, you
Speaker 8: don't need to keep looking for another lawyer. The best
Speaker 8: person in the country you could appoint is sitting right
Speaker 8: over there, pointing to me. I'm unabashedly against the death penalty.
Speaker 8: The death penalty doesn't work, meaning it's provably not a
Speaker 8: deterrent to others. It's also inhumane, super expensive, five times
Speaker 8: as expensive to try someone for a death penalty case
Speaker 8: then house them for their entire life, even if their teens.
Speaker 9: Take me through the first.
Speaker 8: StAst well, the first day is when Judge Smith said
Speaker 8: he was appointing me as the lead lawyer, and he
Speaker 8: instructed me to go over and meet with Eric at
Speaker 8: the Jefferson County Jail. And his concern was whether Eric
Speaker 8: would accept me being Jewish, and he also wondered how
Speaker 8: I would interface with Eric and how I would feel
Speaker 8: about it.
Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph is a loud and proud anti Semite, a
Speaker 1: Holocaust denier who called the television the electric Jew. Richard
Speaker 1: Jeffey is a Jewish man. I asked him how he
Speaker 1: was able to navigate that.
Speaker 8: I went over and met with Eric at the Jefferson
Speaker 8: County Jail. He wasn't in the normal cell with others.
Speaker 8: He had his own block practically, and he was watching
Speaker 8: himself on TV. When I walked in and introduced myself
Speaker 8: and we had a very nice discussion. It wasn't that long,
Speaker 8: less than an hour, and he basically said that was
Speaker 8: a long time ago. I've evolved since then. That was
Speaker 8: what I said many years ago, is not how I
Speaker 8: feel and who I am today. And I went back
Speaker 8: and reported that Judge Smith the second day he was here,
Speaker 8: that was the arraignment, and the arraignment's really a formality
Speaker 8: where someone pleads not guilty or guilty. They couldn't plead
Speaker 8: guilty if they wanted to. It's a formality in that sense,
Speaker 8: but from a legal perspective, the judge gets a formal
Speaker 8: not guilty plea and explains the rights of the particular
Speaker 8: defendant and the process. There was so much media there
Speaker 8: that I couldn't really get in even though I got
Speaker 8: there early. Neither I nor my team could get in
Speaker 8: the courthouse because it was just that crowded.
Speaker 1: Doug Jones was also at the arraignment.
Speaker 7: I called the US Marshall said I really want to
Speaker 7: get in that courtroom. So I was able to sit
Speaker 7: in the jury box, and you could just from my standpoint,
Speaker 7: it was a cold.
Speaker 4: Look.
Speaker 7: There was just something and I've told people since that
Speaker 7: time that you just don't see a soul behind those
Speaker 7: dark eyes of his, that he was proud of what
Speaker 7: he did. Do you just know he had a mission.
Speaker 7: He was proud of what he did, and he would
Speaker 7: do it over if he had to.
Speaker 1: I asked Richard Jaffee what his first impressions were of
Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 8: Well, Eric had been in hiding for five and a
Speaker 8: half years, so he really hadn't had a meaningful conversation
Speaker 8: with anyone, and every single day he was in hiding
Speaker 8: was a day that he was solely focused on surviving.
Speaker 8: So suddenly he's instead of having the ability to watch
Speaker 8: the FBI because he had three different camps that he constructed,
Speaker 8: he was now confined in a jail cell, facing the
Speaker 8: death penalty. Imagine the culture shock he was experiencing. The
Speaker 8: interesting thing is that when he was arrested, he gave
Speaker 8: his real name after he initially didn't. And I had
Speaker 8: the feeling, and based on some of my discussions with him,
Speaker 8: that he was just kind of tired of that life.
Speaker 8: I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to survive,
Speaker 8: to sleep there and wake up there and find food
Speaker 8: and not injure yourself without medical treatment, and always be
Speaker 8: wondering am I going to get caught? And will I
Speaker 8: be killed on site? But I never found Eric to
Speaker 8: be remorseful when it came to the subject of abortion,
Speaker 8: because he felt that strongly about it that in fact,
Speaker 8: to him, it was war, and Eric believed that in
Speaker 8: war the rules are different, and that this was an
Speaker 8: attack on babies, on people, and that he was called
Speaker 8: to take action to do something about it. Obviously, if
Speaker 8: everyone un thought that way, we would have no society,
Speaker 8: we would have no civilization, we have no existence because
Speaker 8: we'd all be killing each other. But Eric felt that
Speaker 8: strongly about the situation.
Speaker 1: Both Jaffie and Jones ultimately reached the same conclusion in
Speaker 1: their thinking and in their impressions of Rudolph. They believed
Speaker 1: he was on a mission, one that he felt strongly about,
Speaker 1: and he carried out that mission without remorse. But as
Speaker 1: the prosecutor, Doug Jones's singular job would have been to convict,
Speaker 1: to paint the portrait of a monster, while as a
Speaker 1: defense attorney, Jaffe's job, in addition to calling the evidence
Speaker 1: into question, was to find the beating heart inside this
Speaker 1: human being and present it to the jury. That is,
Speaker 1: without question, the most effective way to avoid a sentence.
Speaker 8: My focus was to get to know him, not to
Speaker 8: challenge him and build up a rapport and a respect
Speaker 8: and clearly one hundred percent I did because when there
Speaker 8: was a conflict between the two factions of teams, Eric
Speaker 8: chose me and my team.
Speaker 1: This was an extremely high profile case, but aside from that,
Speaker 1: it was only different from other cases by virtue of
Speaker 1: the fact that it was a death penalty case. And
Speaker 1: death penalty cases are notoriously hard to win in any prosecution,
Speaker 1: even if the defendant has essentially been found guilty in
Speaker 1: the court of public opinion. The burden of proof in
Speaker 1: this case required clear and convincing evidence, and it also
Speaker 1: required a unanimous verdict. The possibility of a hung jury
Speaker 1: was a very real scenario.
Speaker 8: So there were different scenarios in play, and as a lawyer,
Speaker 8: you don't reach any conclusions. And I think that's one
Speaker 8: of the problems that sometimes law enforcement gets into, is
Speaker 8: what we call rush to judgment. The perfect example is
Speaker 8: Richard Jewel. So as lawyers, the last thing we wanted
Speaker 8: to do was exclude any hypothesis that was reasonable.
Speaker 10: So I went down a federal courthouse along with the
Speaker 10: other victims of other bombings.
Speaker 1: At a certain point in the process, victims from each
Speaker 1: of the bombings were brought in to provide personal statements
Speaker 1: about the crimes. They included Atlanta radio host Rob Stadler,
Speaker 1: who was at the Sandy Springs clinic bombing with his
Speaker 1: twin girls.
Speaker 10: There was a gentleman who was a first responder, and
Speaker 10: he showed me the shrapnel that's still in his leg.
Speaker 1: The victims were given the chance to read these statements
Speaker 1: to the courtroom and Eric Rudolph directly. Victim statements are
Speaker 1: a necessary part of the judicial process to allow the
Speaker 1: victims to describe the impacts of the crimes, which assists
Speaker 1: the judge and sentencing. Rob at first was hesitant to
Speaker 1: provide one. He was ready to be done with that
Speaker 1: chapter of his life. But he was told that nobody
Speaker 1: else from the Sandy Springs bombing was willing to give
Speaker 1: a victim statement, so he took on that responsibility.
Speaker 10: So it was my turn to talk, and I spent
Speaker 10: most of the time speaking on behalf of the others
Speaker 10: who were there, the first responders and the federal relations, etc.
Speaker 10: And spoke how they did such a great job after
Speaker 10: it happened. But I looked at Rudolph and I said,
Speaker 10: you know what I'm going to do, Eric, after this,
Speaker 10: I'm going to go home. I'm going to pick up
Speaker 10: my girls and we're going to do homework. I go,
Speaker 10: that's a privilege. You're never going to have the privilege
Speaker 10: of having your own family, and I don't feel sorry
Speaker 10: for you. It was really interesting at the end when
Speaker 10: they shackled him and took him out. That was the
Speaker 10: first time that I saw an expression of fear. He
Speaker 10: made his own help. Now he's going to have to
Speaker 10: live in it.
Speaker 11: I still remember being on the back row.
Speaker 1: Former US Attorney Kent Alexander, the lead law enforcement officer
Speaker 1: for the Olympic Park bombing who was no longer on
Speaker 1: the case, was also there in the courtroom.
Speaker 11: I didn't just sit on the back row, but I
Speaker 11: sat on top of the back of the bench because
Speaker 11: I wanted to eyeball Eric Rudolf. I really wanted to
Speaker 11: see who this guy was, and he was remarkably unimpressive
Speaker 11: at that point. He was pale as could be. He
Speaker 11: was overwakes kept feeding him in the jail in Birmingham.
Speaker 11: He just to me looked like this troll. I kept
Speaker 11: expecting to hear something or see something, though I knew
Speaker 11: it's rare that defendants say anything other than not guilty
Speaker 11: and you go from there. But for me, it was
Speaker 11: important to be there just by way of closure. That
Speaker 11: also was the last time I saw Richard Jewel, who
Speaker 11: was there with his wife Dana. I ran into them
Speaker 11: right outside the courtroom. Even then, a lot of the
Speaker 11: agents were starting to back away from him as if
Speaker 11: he had done something wrong because there was a lot
Speaker 11: of bad blood during the process, with his defence team
Speaker 11: criticizing the FBI. But I thought it was fitting that.
Speaker 1: Richard was there.
Speaker 11: He said, I've been waiting a long time for this day,
Speaker 11: such a long time. He had to sit in a
Speaker 11: remote room with his wife to watch everything on video.
Speaker 11: His wife told me that she was happy because she
Speaker 11: really thinks he would have just jumped over the bench
Speaker 11: and attacked the guy, because for him'd say it was
Speaker 11: a life altering experience. This bombing would be unbelievable understatement.
Speaker 11: It ultimately took a lot of years off his life
Speaker 11: because he died at age forty four of a heart attack.
Speaker 1: Emily Lyons, the nurse who bore the full force of
Speaker 1: the bombing at the Alabama abortion clinic, also attended some
Speaker 1: of the proceedings and had the chance to get a
Speaker 1: look at Rudolph beforehand outside the courtroom.
Speaker 12: The closest I ever got to him. We were in Huntsville,
Speaker 12: and we were standing in a room with a door
Speaker 12: that had two pieces of glass up at the top,
Speaker 12: like a swing door. And they brought him back through
Speaker 12: the hallway. And when he passed in from those windows,
Speaker 12: he turned and looked at me. There was no expression, nothing,
Speaker 12: It was just blackness avoid in his eyes. He didn't care,
Speaker 12: He didn't I don't think he knew who I was,
Speaker 12: but sure he could just tell.
Speaker 1: Emily lost one eye with the other severely damaged. Her
Speaker 1: hand was mangled, and a gaping wound in her abdomen
Speaker 1: required the removal of ten inches of her intestines. Most
Speaker 1: of the flesh was blown off her legs and hands.
Speaker 1: She suffered severe burns, a shattered leg, and shrapnel and
Speaker 1: nails remain embedded in her body. Confined to a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: Ever since the bomb, Emily has endured unimaginable pain and suffering.
Speaker 1: Yet when she heard that Eric Rudolf was captured, she
Speaker 1: had one immediate response. She wanted to confront him face
Speaker 1: to face.
Speaker 12: And I got to tell him in court what I thought.
Speaker 12: I let him know that he didn't win that day.
Speaker 12: He wanted people to die. But you didn't silence me.
Speaker 12: You thought you were going to do me in that day,
Speaker 12: but you were mistaken, and you're never going to see
Speaker 12: the light of day like I will. I'll be able
Speaker 12: to see. I'll be able to do things that you
Speaker 12: will never be able to do again. I can enjoy
Speaker 12: a good dinner somewhere.
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 12: You didn't kill me, and you didn't silence me. You
Speaker 12: did the complete opposite. You made my voice up hear.
Speaker 12: You made my brain be more active with the issue.
Speaker 12: Judge didn't like it. Lawyer didn't either, But I told
Speaker 12: him I had more guts of my little peaky than
Speaker 12: he did in his whole body. He didn't look at me,
Speaker 12: he didn't respond.
Speaker 1: Rudolph was facing death. It's what the victims wanted. There
Speaker 1: was clear evidence linking him to each of these bombings.
Speaker 1: There was the phone call recording placed to nine one one,
Speaker 1: the bomb threat at the Olympics that multiple witnesses identified
Speaker 1: as Eric Rudolph is.
Speaker 3: A Mom, the car harm.
Speaker 1: There were the directional plates that were used at both
Speaker 1: the Olympics and the Sandy Springs Clinic. Prosecutors had the
Speaker 1: coffee cup with the license plate tag Jeff Tickle wrote
Speaker 1: down that matched Rudolph's truck, the same truck that had
Speaker 1: bomb residue left on the steering wheel, the same bomb
Speaker 1: residue that was found inside Rudolph's trailer, the same trailer
Speaker 1: he quickly fled from, emptying his drawers and leaving the
Speaker 1: front door open in the middle of winter. Investigators also
Speaker 1: discovered that Rudolph purchased a paperback under the alias Z
Speaker 1: Randolph titled Ragner's Homemade Detonators that was shipped to his
Speaker 1: po box in Topton, the very book that gave specific
Speaker 1: instructions on how to build the detonator that was used
Speaker 1: to kill Officer Sanderson. And Maame Emily lyons. This seems
Speaker 1: like a lot, but in court it's all considered circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 1: And Richard Jaffey understood this well. Did surprise you when
Speaker 1: the prosecution approached you with a plea deal?
Speaker 8: The fact that it was floated to me. That was
Speaker 8: the first of three different discussions I had with the
Speaker 8: government on pleat And the bottom line is I think
Speaker 8: they recognized that only at that time, sixteen percent of
Speaker 8: federal death penalty cases ended up in death. And while
Speaker 8: they had a pretty strong the strongest of any of
Speaker 8: the cases against Eric, they recognized that it was a
Speaker 8: circumstantial evidence case and it only took one juror to
Speaker 8: hang it up and prevent it a guilty verdict. And
Speaker 8: even if they got a guilty verdict, it only took
Speaker 8: one juror to stop a death sentence.
Speaker 1: In other words, Rudolph had very effectively covered his tracks.
Speaker 1: Even with all the evidence that surface after his capture
Speaker 1: in a court of law and with a jury of
Speaker 1: his peers, it still wasn't an open shutcase. Prosecutors needed
Speaker 1: a confession.
Speaker 8: And I made it clear in the first discussion that
Speaker 8: I would get back to them after speaking to Eric,
Speaker 8: and I did, and I made it clear that if
Speaker 8: there was going to be a plea, it would have
Speaker 8: to be what we call a global resolution, meaning every
Speaker 8: single case, the potential state case is the Atlantic cases,
Speaker 8: in the Birmingham cases to a life sentence.
Speaker 1: So Jeffy had to bring this news to Eric Rudolph
Speaker 1: and pose the offer, an offer that would spare his life,
Speaker 1: an offer from the very government he was hell bent
Speaker 1: on overthrown with his actions.
Speaker 8: I had developed a really good relationship with Eric, but
Speaker 8: we never ever discussed plea. It never came up. It
Speaker 8: was never something that was in play. So my concern
Speaker 8: is that if I discussed it with him, which I
Speaker 8: was ethically bound to do, then he might lose confidence
Speaker 8: and get shocked and think that we thought that we
Speaker 8: couldn't successfully defend him here in Birmingham. So I was
Speaker 8: braced for a pretty vociferous reaction, but instead it was
Speaker 8: a subdued Eric. And when I asked him ultimately, so
Speaker 8: it comes down to this, do you want to live?
Speaker 8: And his voice softened and he went, yes, I want
Speaker 8: to live. That certainly surprised me, but I can tell
Speaker 8: you that having represented thousands of people and had this
Speaker 8: discussion with fouls of people, there are plenty of people
Speaker 8: that just aren't completed and are going to think the
Speaker 8: lawyer's lost confidence in the case. But Eric was pragmatic
Speaker 8: enough and knew the case well enough that he was
Speaker 8: able to make what quite honestly was a wise decision.
Speaker 1: As part of the plea agreement to avoid the death sentence,
Speaker 1: Rudolph gave up the location of a massive arsenal of
Speaker 1: dynamite he had stored deep in the woods, This dynamite
Speaker 1: was linked to a December nineteen ninety six robbery of
Speaker 1: more than three hundred and forty pounds of nitroglycer and
Speaker 1: dynamite in Asheville, North Carolina. By ATF's estimates, only about
Speaker 1: thirty pounds of the three hundred and forty pounds of
Speaker 1: dynamite had been used in Rudolph's bombings, which meant there
Speaker 1: was a lot more dynamite that still needed to be secured.
Speaker 1: Rudolph stockpile was hidden in the woods of the Nanahalo Forest,
Speaker 1: buried at five different sites. When federal authorities found it,
Speaker 1: it was unstable, ready to blow with even a hint
Speaker 1: of a spark. Agents destroyed the dynamite through a series
Speaker 1: of somewhat controlled detonations that rattled the surrounding areas and
Speaker 1: left a lasting imprint on the National Forest forever marked
Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph slept here.
Speaker 13: I mean, obviously, when the Centennial Park bombing happened during
Speaker 13: the Olympics, people were stunned. I mean, this was supposed
Speaker 13: to be an event that showcased Atlanta, and it clearly
Speaker 13: left a scar behind, and then you had years of
Speaker 13: uncertainty about who actually did People thought it was Eric Rudolf,
Speaker 13: but was unclear and until he was captured and then
Speaker 13: ultimately decide to plead guilty, and that'll happen today.
Speaker 1: On April fourteenth, two thousand and five, Eric Rudolph pleaded guilty,
Speaker 1: confessing to his crimes, clarifying his motives and articulating his
Speaker 1: ideology of hatred in an eleven page confession.
Speaker 14: When it was Rudolph's turn to speak, he ranted like
Speaker 14: a madman, claiming he was fighting for life by attacking
Speaker 14: an abortion mill.
Speaker 11: Rudolph says he the Olympics went terribly rawing never intended
Speaker 11: to hurt anybody. If you've seen a mock up at
Speaker 11: the bomb, that's laughable. Of course, he intended to hurt people,
Speaker 11: but I think he didn't get the kind of positive
Speaker 11: reinforcement he expected from the Olympics.
Speaker 14: His sentencing hearing was emotionally riching. Survivors of his clinic
Speaker 14: bombing finally got the opportunity to lash out at Rudolph.
Speaker 10: I was not happy about it. I wanted a trial.
Speaker 10: I wanted all the evidence to come out. He probably
Speaker 10: would not have taken the stand, but I wanted to
Speaker 10: hear the preponderance of evidence against him. But I understand
Speaker 10: from where the prosecutors were coming from, although I was
Speaker 10: not happy with them, but they were just doing their job.
Speaker 10: But I wanted to see a trial and we were
Speaker 10: all denied that.
Speaker 14: Andy Sanderson's widow understands why prosecutors agreed to the plea deal.
Speaker 14: The deal spared Rudolph's life, even though he took her
Speaker 14: husband's look.
Speaker 15: I leave Eric Rudolph's final punishment in God's hands. And
Speaker 15: I looked him in the face in that court Remus
Speaker 15: the one time I did, and I said that to him.
Speaker 15: That's the only thing I said to him. That's the
Speaker 15: only thing I ever care to say to it.
Speaker 14: Staring him dead in the eye. Emily Lyons blasted Eric Rudolf,
Speaker 14: calling him a failure and a coward who had spent
Speaker 14: his life in prison rather than risk death.
Speaker 12: In my opinion, he got off easy. He killed people,
Speaker 12: he planned it. How much more premeditated murder do you
Speaker 12: need to get a death penalty? That's what I wanted.
Speaker 12: I wanted to be able to sit in the road
Speaker 12: before the window like you always see on TV, and
Speaker 12: be the face that he sees before he does. That's
Speaker 12: where I wanted to be be able to sit there
Speaker 12: and watch him die as he stood there and watched
Speaker 12: Sandyda says he stood there and tried to kill me.
Speaker 9: They're very secretive about who's even brought to Colorado for that. Facility.
Speaker 1: ADX Florence is a federal supermax in Florence, Colorado. It
Speaker 1: houses inmates that are deemed the most dangerous and capable
Speaker 1: of extreme violence, including El Chapo, the Unibomber, the OKC bomber,
Speaker 1: one of the Boston Marathon bombers, and the Shoe bomber.
Speaker 1: It's where Eric Rudolph was sent.
Speaker 9: It's the most secure prison in the United States, and
Speaker 9: it's full of the worst in the United States.
Speaker 1: Everything is made of concrete, the walls, the floor, the desk,
Speaker 1: the sink, your bed, and inmates are fine to their
Speaker 1: cells for twenty three hours a day. You're truly shut
Speaker 1: off from the world.
Speaker 9: No one's ever escaped, and I don't think mister Rudolph
Speaker 9: will have any ability to and I don't think he'll
Speaker 9: be communicating with anybody from there either.
Speaker 10: January sixteenth, and I call it Family Survival Day because
Speaker 10: our entire family survived, and I do once in a
Speaker 10: while get on the Internet and look up details about supermacs,
Speaker 10: just to kind of get an idea of what he's
Speaker 10: going through. I mean, he gets one hour of outside.
Speaker 10: But it's interesting when they go into their courtyard. Apparently
Speaker 10: things are so covered up you don't see the sky.
Speaker 10: You basically walk around and whatever, and then you go
Speaker 10: back in and the only window you have in that
Speaker 10: cell this is a skinny little thing. And even then
Speaker 10: they say, when you look out of those windows, you
Speaker 10: can't see anything.
Speaker 12: My parents were sitting behind me and my sister and
Speaker 12: my daughter, because I wanted them to see the person
Speaker 12: who did this to me.
Speaker 1: Emily Lyons is describing the last time she saw Eric
Speaker 1: Rudolf in the courtroom.
Speaker 12: My parents were close to ninety at that point. They
Speaker 12: were brought up in a small town. You know, nobody
Speaker 12: went around killing people. I wanted for them to know
Speaker 12: that there are people out there like that, to let
Speaker 12: them know that this isn't just an isolated event.
Speaker 1: Emily's right. Eric Rudolf is not nicely an event. He's
Speaker 1: a relentless presence, part of a relentless movement, an echo
Speaker 1: in our minds and in our daily lives. His actions
Speaker 1: are inescapable permanent life altering and understanding him is not
Speaker 1: about empathy. It's about confronting and holding uncomfortable and contradictory truths.
Speaker 1: But regardless of the motivation, how does a person arrive
Speaker 1: at that conclusion? What activates them? How the fuck does
Speaker 1: someone go from I don't agree with you too, I'm
Speaker 1: going to kill you. Why do you think he did
Speaker 1: what he did?
Speaker 12: I think Herdoff did all this because of what he
Speaker 12: had been brought up in the religion, the skinhead part
Speaker 12: of his existence, radical ideas that he obtained early on.
Speaker 12: He just continued on that. It's like talking to about
Speaker 12: a closed mind. He was closed mind. All he had
Speaker 12: in his head was hatred, religious oddities, things that most
Speaker 12: normal people don't have. But he just had it drilled
Speaker 12: in for so long that there want anything else to
Speaker 12: think about. This is it. There's no other no other thought,
Speaker 12: no other opinion, no other action. This is it. This
Speaker 12: is the way the world is. We're going to fix that.
Speaker 12: Kill them, kill them all.
Speaker 1: Someone who holds these convictions, who could commit such acts
Speaker 1: of extraordinary evil, That's not normally someone I'd ever want
Speaker 1: to talk to. But this isn't normal. This is where
Speaker 1: we're at and I have to try. The Supermax in
Speaker 1: Florence is the highest security prison in the United States,
Speaker 1: but they do allow for communication via letters to inmates,
Speaker 1: including Eric Rudolph. Dear mister Rudolph. My name is Cola Cassio.
Speaker 1: I was born on May twentieth, nineteen ninety seven. There's
Speaker 1: no way you can know this, but my mom was
Speaker 1: scheduled to have an abortion at the Sandy Springs abortion
Speaker 1: clinic on January seventeenth, the day after you bombed it.
Speaker 1: She was just seventeen years old at the time, and
Speaker 1: ultimately she decided not to terminate her pregnancy. I was
Speaker 1: born four months later. Truth be told, I don't support
Speaker 1: what you did, but at the same time, I only
Speaker 1: exist because of your actions, and I think about this
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm very curious about you and the things
Speaker 1: that motivate you to plant and detonate those bombs. I'm
Speaker 1: also curious to know what you would say to me
Speaker 1: after hearing my story. If it's at all possible, I
Speaker 1: would like to speak with you, sincerely, col A Cassio.
Speaker 1: Flashpoint is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeartMedia.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Cola Cassio, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay
Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Flashpoint was created, written,
Speaker 1: and executive produced by Doug Mattica and myself on behalf
Speaker 1: of seven nine ninety seven. Lead producer is Alex Vespustad,
Speaker 1: along with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith. Our Associate producer
Speaker 1: is Wit Lucasio. Editing by alex Espostat with additional editing
Speaker 1: by Liam Luxon and Sidney Evans. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
Speaker 1: Artwork by Station sixteen, original music by Jay Ragsdale mixed
Speaker 1: by Dayton Cole. Thank you to Orrin Rosenbaum and the
Speaker 1: team at Uta Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Angela q, Tylie Revive, Mattica and Tim Livingston.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like Flashpoint, search Tenderfoot TV on your
Speaker 1: favorite podcast s app or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Flashpoint.
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly ssolutely free, but for ad
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Speaker 1: to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus dot com,