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Speaker 1: Flashpoint is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free,

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Flashpoint, a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: association with iHeartMedia. The views and opinions expressed in this

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Speaker 2: podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.

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Speaker 2: This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be

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Speaker 2: suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: Hello, You'll have reached to VI Israel and the Watchman

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Speaker 3: Outreach Ministries. If you would like to speak to aafter

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Speaker 3: game and please press three locome by the pounds. Fine,

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Speaker 3: good afternoon.

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Speaker 4: Me I help you.

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Speaker 1: Hey, mister Gamon, my name is Cole. I was looking

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Speaker 1: to get more information about your church.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, yes, sir, I'd be happy to talk to you. Cole.

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Speaker 4: How did you find out about us?

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Speaker 1: So my story is interesting and how I found out

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Speaker 1: about your church. My mother when she was really young,

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Speaker 1: when she was seventeen, she got pregnant with me. She

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Speaker 1: was actually.

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Speaker 4: Second married at that time. She was not okay.

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Speaker 1: She was scheduled actually to have an abortion with me,

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Speaker 1: and oh wow, the abortion clinic that she was scheduled

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Speaker 1: to have the abortion in was bombed the day before

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Speaker 1: by Eric Rudolph.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, Cole, I am, first of all, I praised

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Speaker 5: the name of Jesus Christ that you are in this world.

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Speaker 5: What a what a deliverance, I mean, what a sad

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Speaker 5: thing that had to happen for you to get here.

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Speaker 4: But my goodness, Now, is your mother still living?

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Speaker 1: She is, she is, We're very close.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's as marvelous. I bet she is grateful that

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Speaker 4: you're not. You're not the victim of an abortion.

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Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, you know, I really want to I

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Speaker 5: want you to know cold that I'm I'm honored to

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Speaker 5: be talking with you.

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Speaker 4: See.

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Speaker 5: Eric Rudolph was just a very young kid when he

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Speaker 5: came through here. His mother was a widowed lady with

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Speaker 5: another brother. They had absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 4: Some friend told him, you know, that they could stop

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Speaker 4: here and probably get some help.

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Speaker 5: Eric was a very well mannered, he was very bright,

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Speaker 5: gunk kid, and you know, we never heard one word

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Speaker 5: again until we heard of this very very alarming story.

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Speaker 4: Out of you know, out of the South late in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties. That was pretty amazing. We were just,

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Speaker 4: you know, we were aghast.

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Speaker 5: See, we've never, at any time in our history advocated

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Speaker 5: any kind of violence. We would never endorse that. We

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Speaker 5: would just simply find that to be rebolting. So we

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Speaker 5: never you know, we never in any way ever advanced

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Speaker 5: the ideas that Eric picked up. We don't know where

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Speaker 5: he got those ideas.

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Speaker 4: Let me put it this way, Cole, I would not

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Speaker 4: deny for one.

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Speaker 5: Moment that I'm very very much opposed to abortion, I'm

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Speaker 5: opposed to race mixing, and I am opposed to homosexuality.

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Speaker 5: Now what am I supposed to Knowing that he's alleged

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Speaker 5: to a bomb, abortion plenty, a homosexual bar, and a

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Speaker 5: place where they were racially mixed. I don't know where

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Speaker 5: he picked up all those ideas, but those are all

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Speaker 5: ideas that I personally, Cole, I can open the Bible

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Speaker 5: and show you where abortion is wrong.

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Speaker 4: It's murder.

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Speaker 5: Race mixing is wrong, It's against God's law. We believe

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Speaker 5: that God doesn't want any race to intermingle and change

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Speaker 5: their nature and their original design that God gave them.

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Speaker 1: It's bizarre to me that Dan Gamon doesn't see his

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Speaker 1: part in Eric Rudolf's development. In my opinion, he's probably

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Speaker 1: in denial as far as Gamon's concerned. Sure they shared ideologies,

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Speaker 1: but that's where the connection ends. Eric Rudolph was, after

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Speaker 1: all a lone wolf, right.

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Speaker 5: And with regard to homosexuality, I need not mention to

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Speaker 5: you that the Bible is very anti homosexuality. God even

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Speaker 5: destroyed the whole city named Thodom and Gomorrah of homosexuals.

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Speaker 5: So all three of those are terrible, horrible sins, and

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Speaker 5: you know, they became the point of Eric's frustration to

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Speaker 5: exercise this kind of violence. And that's where I disagree

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Speaker 5: wholeheartedly with him, that he made a tragic mistake when

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Speaker 5: he went off the deep end and used violence. When

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Speaker 5: we teach God's word, his word is very clear, and

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Speaker 5: we can do it in a very Christian manner, and

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Speaker 5: that's where it stops. We don't carry it any further

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Speaker 5: than that.

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Speaker 4: Well, Cole, I've got an appointment I have to keep,

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Speaker 4: so I'm going to run. But you know, I want

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Speaker 4: to thank you for calling me, and I want you

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Speaker 4: to just if you don't mind.

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Speaker 5: Just remember this one little thought that I'm going to

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Speaker 5: say when I end this call.

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Speaker 4: Cole. I'm not sure what caused you to want to

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Speaker 4: call this number and talk to me, but I'm wondering if.

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Speaker 5: There was a higher power that was directing you, and

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Speaker 5: will call that higher power the God who created of

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Speaker 5: an an earth. You might want to think about coming

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Speaker 5: to visit us and learn more about us before you.

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Speaker 5: You know, weigh in heavily on judging. And don't you

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Speaker 5: find it a little bit interesting that your life was

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Speaker 5: spared from a bullish and clinic. Isn't that amazing that

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Speaker 5: you came within one day.

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Speaker 4: Of not being here.

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Speaker 1: I have a really hard time believing that Dan Gamon

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Speaker 1: had no direct connection to Eric Rudolf or what motivated

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Speaker 1: him to become a terrorist. But here's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: do know these so called lone wolves, somewhere down the line,

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Speaker 1: they're always part of a pack, whether they know it

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Speaker 1: or not. I can't say precisely when and where Eric

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Speaker 1: Rudolf began to think of himself as an operative in

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Speaker 1: a movement, a soldier in the army of God. But

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Speaker 1: at a certain point he knew damn well what he

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Speaker 1: was doing, why he was doing it, and how it

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Speaker 1: would be perceived. He said it point blank after his

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Speaker 1: capture quote. The hope was that my actions would push

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Speaker 1: other pro lifers and patriots to bridge the gap between

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Speaker 1: their rhetoric and their actions. These attacks were not part

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Speaker 1: of some personal vendetta against abortionists, homosexuals, or government agents.

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Speaker 1: They were acts of war aimed at damaging, undermining, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately overthrowing the liberal establishment in America. When I heard

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Speaker 1: they were bringing the Summer Olympics to Atlanta, I thought

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Speaker 1: it would make the perfect target. Episode seven, When Ideas

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Speaker 1: Become Actions.

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Speaker 6: This morning, at four point thirty in the morning, an

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Speaker 6: alert Murphy police officer noticed something unusual going on behind

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Speaker 6: the Valley Village shopping center here in Murphy. He investigated,

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Speaker 6: He called for backup, and ultimately arrested Eric Robert Rudolph

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Speaker 6: at about four point thirty am this morning.

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Speaker 1: The trial of Eric Rudolph, set to determine the consequences

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Speaker 1: for his acts of terror, was originally scheduled for August fourth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Federal Judge Lynnwood Smith delayed the

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Speaker 1: start by a year, stating the sheer volume of discovery

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Speaker 1: that still must be organized and assimilated by Defense Council

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Speaker 1: is staggering.

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Speaker 6: As you know, he's charged in connection with the bombings

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Speaker 6: of the Centennial Park, the Sandy Ridge Professional Center office building,

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Speaker 6: and the double bombings of the other Side Lounge in

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Speaker 6: midtown Atlanta. The death of a police officer in Alabama resulted,

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Speaker 6: also the death of a person in Atlanta, and about

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Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty injuries resulted from these bombings.

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Speaker 1: Despite the strong evidence connecting him to these horrifying crimes,

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Speaker 1: he still had a right to a full thread of defense.

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Speaker 7: Richard to this day is one of my best friends.

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Speaker 1: This again is former US Attorney Doug Jones. His term

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Speaker 1: as US attorney had ended by the time of Rudolph's capture,

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Speaker 1: but he still attended many of the proceedings.

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Speaker 7: I just know the way Richard Jeffy handles his clients.

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Speaker 7: He doesn't make judgments own people at all, and his job,

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Speaker 7: he understands, as a defense lawyer, is to get to

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Speaker 7: know the client, get to know the cases put the

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Speaker 7: government to their burden. He believes that every client, regardless

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Speaker 7: of the circumstance, deserves the top notch defense. He can

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Speaker 7: endure their trust regardless and I can assure you without

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Speaker 7: having sat through any of their conversations or without Richard

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Speaker 7: talking to me about it. They didn't talk about the politics.

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Speaker 7: Richard let him know that he was his advocate, and

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Speaker 7: that probably let him know that the political aspect of this,

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Speaker 7: while the government may do X, it doesn't matter to him.

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Speaker 7: He has a job and he wants to know everything

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Speaker 7: about the client. He wants to understand the facts, and

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Speaker 7: he just has that mannerism as good as any lawyer

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Speaker 7: that I've ever seen that does criminal defense work.

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Speaker 1: It took me months to nail down a time to

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Speaker 1: speak with Richard Jaffey, but I finally made the drive

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Speaker 1: to Birmingham to sit down with him. With the ac

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Speaker 1: blasting on a hot summer day, we settled into what

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Speaker 1: would have been the dining room in a two story

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Speaker 1: Tudor style home that had been converted into his law office.

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Speaker 8: My faith in the justice system today is certainly not

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Speaker 8: what it was when I started practicing law, which was

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Speaker 8: forty five years ago. I think that when the power

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Speaker 8: of government manifests itself, if there aren't people, mainly lawyers,

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Speaker 8: willing to stand up and protect the helpless and those

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Speaker 8: individuals that don't have power, then the democracy as we

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Speaker 8: know it will completely evaporate.

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Speaker 1: Richard's colleagues often refer to him as Atticus Finch, the

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Speaker 1: protagonist from Taquilla Mockingbird. In the novel Atticust defends a

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Speaker 1: black man falsely accused of rape in the small town

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Speaker 1: of may coom, Alabama, during the Great Depression. As is

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Speaker 1: the case for many lawyers in the South, the character

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Speaker 1: of Atticus Finch served as an influence in Richard's decision

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Speaker 1: to become a defense attorney to do the work of

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Speaker 1: representing marginalized or seemingly guilty defendants.

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Speaker 8: In representing both the apparently innocent and the apparently guilty,

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Speaker 8: our ethical responsibilities to provide the most zealous representation we're

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Speaker 8: capable of are the same. The scariest thing is to

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Speaker 8: represent someone that is apparently or obviously innocent and where

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Speaker 8: there is a significant lack of proof, in knowing that

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Speaker 8: if we have to go to trial and we lose,

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Speaker 8: it's basically hard to forget.

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Speaker 1: I asked Jaffe how the opportunity to represent Rudolph even

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Speaker 1: came to him.

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Speaker 8: Well, I was in the federal courtroom of Judge Lindwood Smith,

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Speaker 8: an excellent judge, and I was representing, along with my team,

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Speaker 8: a lawyer charged with witness tampering, and we were arguing

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Speaker 8: over discovery when suddenly the assistant of Judge Smith came

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Speaker 8: up to him and whispered in his ear. He recessed

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Speaker 8: abruptly and came back, and then we learned that Eric

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Speaker 8: Rudolph had been arrested.

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Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph was staring down a potential death penalty sentence.

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Speaker 1: At this point, of the fifty people he had defended

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Speaker 1: who were facing the death penalty, none had been executed.

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Speaker 8: To represent somebody for a federal death penalty crime, the

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Speaker 8: court is obligated to a point what's called learned counsel,

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Speaker 8: and that means someone who is skilled in death penalty,

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Speaker 8: federal death penalty work and trained.

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Speaker 1: Jeffy recalls his friend and colleague, Bruce Gardner, nudging the

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Speaker 1: judge as at that time Alabama had only one such

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Speaker 1: qualified lawyer.

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Speaker 8: So we finished the hearing in the case was continued,

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Speaker 8: and Bruce walked up to Judge Smith and said, you

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Speaker 8: don't need to keep looking for another lawyer. The best

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Speaker 8: person in the country you could appoint is sitting right

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Speaker 8: over there, pointing to me. I'm unabashedly against the death penalty.

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Speaker 8: The death penalty doesn't work, meaning it's provably not a

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Speaker 8: deterrent to others. It's also inhumane, super expensive, five times

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Speaker 8: as expensive to try someone for a death penalty case

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Speaker 8: then house them for their entire life, even if their teens.

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Speaker 9: Take me through the first.

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Speaker 8: StAst well, the first day is when Judge Smith said

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Speaker 8: he was appointing me as the lead lawyer, and he

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Speaker 8: instructed me to go over and meet with Eric at

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Speaker 8: the Jefferson County Jail. And his concern was whether Eric

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Speaker 8: would accept me being Jewish, and he also wondered how

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Speaker 8: I would interface with Eric and how I would feel

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Speaker 8: about it.

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Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph is a loud and proud anti Semite, a

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Speaker 1: Holocaust denier who called the television the electric Jew. Richard

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Speaker 1: Jeffey is a Jewish man. I asked him how he

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Speaker 1: was able to navigate that.

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Speaker 8: I went over and met with Eric at the Jefferson

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Speaker 8: County Jail. He wasn't in the normal cell with others.

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Speaker 8: He had his own block practically, and he was watching

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Speaker 8: himself on TV. When I walked in and introduced myself

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Speaker 8: and we had a very nice discussion. It wasn't that long,

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Speaker 8: less than an hour, and he basically said that was

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Speaker 8: a long time ago. I've evolved since then. That was

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Speaker 8: what I said many years ago, is not how I

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Speaker 8: feel and who I am today. And I went back

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Speaker 8: and reported that Judge Smith the second day he was here,

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Speaker 8: that was the arraignment, and the arraignment's really a formality

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Speaker 8: where someone pleads not guilty or guilty. They couldn't plead

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Speaker 8: guilty if they wanted to. It's a formality in that sense,

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Speaker 8: but from a legal perspective, the judge gets a formal

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Speaker 8: not guilty plea and explains the rights of the particular

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Speaker 8: defendant and the process. There was so much media there

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Speaker 8: that I couldn't really get in even though I got

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Speaker 8: there early. Neither I nor my team could get in

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Speaker 8: the courthouse because it was just that crowded.

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Speaker 1: Doug Jones was also at the arraignment.

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Speaker 7: I called the US Marshall said I really want to

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Speaker 7: get in that courtroom. So I was able to sit

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Speaker 7: in the jury box, and you could just from my standpoint,

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Speaker 7: it was a cold.

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Speaker 4: Look.

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Speaker 7: There was just something and I've told people since that

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Speaker 7: time that you just don't see a soul behind those

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Speaker 7: dark eyes of his, that he was proud of what

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Speaker 7: he did. Do you just know he had a mission.

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Speaker 7: He was proud of what he did, and he would

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Speaker 7: do it over if he had to.

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Speaker 1: I asked Richard Jaffee what his first impressions were of

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Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph.

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Speaker 8: Well, Eric had been in hiding for five and a

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Speaker 8: half years, so he really hadn't had a meaningful conversation

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Speaker 8: with anyone, and every single day he was in hiding

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Speaker 8: was a day that he was solely focused on surviving.

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Speaker 8: So suddenly he's instead of having the ability to watch

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Speaker 8: the FBI because he had three different camps that he constructed,

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Speaker 8: he was now confined in a jail cell, facing the

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Speaker 8: death penalty. Imagine the culture shock he was experiencing. The

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Speaker 8: interesting thing is that when he was arrested, he gave

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Speaker 8: his real name after he initially didn't. And I had

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Speaker 8: the feeling, and based on some of my discussions with him,

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Speaker 8: that he was just kind of tired of that life.

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Speaker 8: I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to survive,

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Speaker 8: to sleep there and wake up there and find food

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Speaker 8: and not injure yourself without medical treatment, and always be

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Speaker 8: wondering am I going to get caught? And will I

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Speaker 8: be killed on site? But I never found Eric to

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Speaker 8: be remorseful when it came to the subject of abortion,

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Speaker 8: because he felt that strongly about it that in fact,

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Speaker 8: to him, it was war, and Eric believed that in

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Speaker 8: war the rules are different, and that this was an

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Speaker 8: attack on babies, on people, and that he was called

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Speaker 8: to take action to do something about it. Obviously, if

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Speaker 8: everyone un thought that way, we would have no society,

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Speaker 8: we would have no civilization, we have no existence because

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Speaker 8: we'd all be killing each other. But Eric felt that

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Speaker 8: strongly about the situation.

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Speaker 1: Both Jaffie and Jones ultimately reached the same conclusion in

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Speaker 1: their thinking and in their impressions of Rudolph. They believed

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Speaker 1: he was on a mission, one that he felt strongly about,

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Speaker 1: and he carried out that mission without remorse. But as

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, Doug Jones's singular job would have been to convict,

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Speaker 1: to paint the portrait of a monster, while as a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, Jaffe's job, in addition to calling the evidence

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Speaker 1: into question, was to find the beating heart inside this

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Speaker 1: human being and present it to the jury. That is,

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Speaker 1: without question, the most effective way to avoid a sentence.

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Speaker 8: My focus was to get to know him, not to

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Speaker 8: challenge him and build up a rapport and a respect

305
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Speaker 8: and clearly one hundred percent I did because when there

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Speaker 8: was a conflict between the two factions of teams, Eric

307
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Speaker 8: chose me and my team.

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Speaker 1: This was an extremely high profile case, but aside from that,

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Speaker 1: it was only different from other cases by virtue of

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Speaker 1: the fact that it was a death penalty case. And

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Speaker 1: death penalty cases are notoriously hard to win in any prosecution,

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Speaker 1: even if the defendant has essentially been found guilty in

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Speaker 1: the court of public opinion. The burden of proof in

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Speaker 1: this case required clear and convincing evidence, and it also

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Speaker 1: required a unanimous verdict. The possibility of a hung jury

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Speaker 1: was a very real scenario.

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Speaker 8: So there were different scenarios in play, and as a lawyer,

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Speaker 8: you don't reach any conclusions. And I think that's one

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Speaker 8: of the problems that sometimes law enforcement gets into, is

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Speaker 8: what we call rush to judgment. The perfect example is

321
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Speaker 8: Richard Jewel. So as lawyers, the last thing we wanted

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Speaker 8: to do was exclude any hypothesis that was reasonable.

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Speaker 10: So I went down a federal courthouse along with the

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Speaker 10: other victims of other bombings.

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Speaker 1: At a certain point in the process, victims from each

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Speaker 1: of the bombings were brought in to provide personal statements

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Speaker 1: about the crimes. They included Atlanta radio host Rob Stadler,

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Speaker 1: who was at the Sandy Springs clinic bombing with his

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Speaker 1: twin girls.

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Speaker 10: There was a gentleman who was a first responder, and

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Speaker 10: he showed me the shrapnel that's still in his leg.

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Speaker 1: The victims were given the chance to read these statements

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Speaker 1: to the courtroom and Eric Rudolph directly. Victim statements are

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Speaker 1: a necessary part of the judicial process to allow the

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Speaker 1: victims to describe the impacts of the crimes, which assists

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Speaker 1: the judge and sentencing. Rob at first was hesitant to

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Speaker 1: provide one. He was ready to be done with that

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Speaker 1: chapter of his life. But he was told that nobody

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Speaker 1: else from the Sandy Springs bombing was willing to give

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Speaker 1: a victim statement, so he took on that responsibility.

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Speaker 10: So it was my turn to talk, and I spent

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Speaker 10: most of the time speaking on behalf of the others

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Speaker 10: who were there, the first responders and the federal relations, etc.

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Speaker 10: And spoke how they did such a great job after

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Speaker 10: it happened. But I looked at Rudolph and I said,

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Speaker 10: you know what I'm going to do, Eric, after this,

347
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Speaker 10: I'm going to go home. I'm going to pick up

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Speaker 10: my girls and we're going to do homework. I go,

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Speaker 10: that's a privilege. You're never going to have the privilege

350
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Speaker 10: of having your own family, and I don't feel sorry

351
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Speaker 10: for you. It was really interesting at the end when

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Speaker 10: they shackled him and took him out. That was the

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Speaker 10: first time that I saw an expression of fear. He

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Speaker 10: made his own help. Now he's going to have to

355
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Speaker 10: live in it.

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Speaker 11: I still remember being on the back row.

357
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Speaker 1: Former US Attorney Kent Alexander, the lead law enforcement officer

358
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Speaker 1: for the Olympic Park bombing who was no longer on

359
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: the case, was also there in the courtroom.

360
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Speaker 11: I didn't just sit on the back row, but I

361
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Speaker 11: sat on top of the back of the bench because

362
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Speaker 11: I wanted to eyeball Eric Rudolf. I really wanted to

363
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Speaker 11: see who this guy was, and he was remarkably unimpressive

364
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 11: at that point. He was pale as could be. He

365
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 11: was overwakes kept feeding him in the jail in Birmingham.

366
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Speaker 11: He just to me looked like this troll. I kept

367
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Speaker 11: expecting to hear something or see something, though I knew

368
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Speaker 11: it's rare that defendants say anything other than not guilty

369
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Speaker 11: and you go from there. But for me, it was

370
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Speaker 11: important to be there just by way of closure. That

371
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Speaker 11: also was the last time I saw Richard Jewel, who

372
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Speaker 11: was there with his wife Dana. I ran into them

373
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Speaker 11: right outside the courtroom. Even then, a lot of the

374
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Speaker 11: agents were starting to back away from him as if

375
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Speaker 11: he had done something wrong because there was a lot

376
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Speaker 11: of bad blood during the process, with his defence team

377
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Speaker 11: criticizing the FBI. But I thought it was fitting that.

378
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Speaker 1: Richard was there.

379
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Speaker 11: He said, I've been waiting a long time for this day,

380
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Speaker 11: such a long time. He had to sit in a

381
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Speaker 11: remote room with his wife to watch everything on video.

382
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Speaker 11: His wife told me that she was happy because she

383
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 11: really thinks he would have just jumped over the bench

384
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Speaker 11: and attacked the guy, because for him'd say it was

385
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Speaker 11: a life altering experience. This bombing would be unbelievable understatement.

386
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 11: It ultimately took a lot of years off his life

387
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Speaker 11: because he died at age forty four of a heart attack.

388
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Speaker 1: Emily Lyons, the nurse who bore the full force of

389
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Speaker 1: the bombing at the Alabama abortion clinic, also attended some

390
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: of the proceedings and had the chance to get a

391
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Speaker 1: look at Rudolph beforehand outside the courtroom.

392
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Speaker 12: The closest I ever got to him. We were in Huntsville,

393
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Speaker 12: and we were standing in a room with a door

394
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Speaker 12: that had two pieces of glass up at the top,

395
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Speaker 12: like a swing door. And they brought him back through

396
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Speaker 12: the hallway. And when he passed in from those windows,

397
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 12: he turned and looked at me. There was no expression, nothing,

398
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Speaker 12: It was just blackness avoid in his eyes. He didn't care,

399
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Speaker 12: He didn't I don't think he knew who I was,

400
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 12: but sure he could just tell.

401
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Emily lost one eye with the other severely damaged. Her

402
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: hand was mangled, and a gaping wound in her abdomen

403
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: required the removal of ten inches of her intestines. Most

404
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: of the flesh was blown off her legs and hands.

405
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: She suffered severe burns, a shattered leg, and shrapnel and

406
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: nails remain embedded in her body. Confined to a wheelchair.

407
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: Ever since the bomb, Emily has endured unimaginable pain and suffering.

408
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: Yet when she heard that Eric Rudolf was captured, she

409
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: had one immediate response. She wanted to confront him face

410
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: to face.

411
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Speaker 12: And I got to tell him in court what I thought.

412
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 12: I let him know that he didn't win that day.

413
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 12: He wanted people to die. But you didn't silence me.

414
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 12: You thought you were going to do me in that day,

415
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 12: but you were mistaken, and you're never going to see

416
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 12: the light of day like I will. I'll be able

417
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 12: to see. I'll be able to do things that you

418
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 12: will never be able to do again. I can enjoy

419
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 12: a good dinner somewhere.

420
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Speaker 4: I will.

421
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 12: You didn't kill me, and you didn't silence me. You

422
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 12: did the complete opposite. You made my voice up hear.

423
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 12: You made my brain be more active with the issue.

424
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 12: Judge didn't like it. Lawyer didn't either, But I told

425
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 12: him I had more guts of my little peaky than

426
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 12: he did in his whole body. He didn't look at me,

427
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 12: he didn't respond.

428
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: Rudolph was facing death. It's what the victims wanted. There

429
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: was clear evidence linking him to each of these bombings.

430
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: There was the phone call recording placed to nine one one,

431
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: the bomb threat at the Olympics that multiple witnesses identified

432
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: as Eric Rudolph is.

433
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 3: A Mom, the car harm.

434
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: There were the directional plates that were used at both

435
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: the Olympics and the Sandy Springs Clinic. Prosecutors had the

436
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: coffee cup with the license plate tag Jeff Tickle wrote

437
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: down that matched Rudolph's truck, the same truck that had

438
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: bomb residue left on the steering wheel, the same bomb

439
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: residue that was found inside Rudolph's trailer, the same trailer

440
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: he quickly fled from, emptying his drawers and leaving the

441
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: front door open in the middle of winter. Investigators also

442
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: discovered that Rudolph purchased a paperback under the alias Z

443
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: Randolph titled Ragner's Homemade Detonators that was shipped to his

444
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: po box in Topton, the very book that gave specific

445
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: instructions on how to build the detonator that was used

446
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: to kill Officer Sanderson. And Maame Emily lyons. This seems

447
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: like a lot, but in court it's all considered circumstantial evidence.

448
00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: And Richard Jaffey understood this well. Did surprise you when

449
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: the prosecution approached you with a plea deal?

450
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 8: The fact that it was floated to me. That was

451
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 8: the first of three different discussions I had with the

452
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 8: government on pleat And the bottom line is I think

453
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 8: they recognized that only at that time, sixteen percent of

454
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 8: federal death penalty cases ended up in death. And while

455
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 8: they had a pretty strong the strongest of any of

456
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 8: the cases against Eric, they recognized that it was a

457
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 8: circumstantial evidence case and it only took one juror to

458
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 8: hang it up and prevent it a guilty verdict. And

459
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 8: even if they got a guilty verdict, it only took

460
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 8: one juror to stop a death sentence.

461
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: In other words, Rudolph had very effectively covered his tracks.

462
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: Even with all the evidence that surface after his capture

463
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: in a court of law and with a jury of

464
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: his peers, it still wasn't an open shutcase. Prosecutors needed

465
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: a confession.

466
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 8: And I made it clear in the first discussion that

467
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 8: I would get back to them after speaking to Eric,

468
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 8: and I did, and I made it clear that if

469
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 8: there was going to be a plea, it would have

470
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 8: to be what we call a global resolution, meaning every

471
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 8: single case, the potential state case is the Atlantic cases,

472
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 8: in the Birmingham cases to a life sentence.

473
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: So Jeffy had to bring this news to Eric Rudolph

474
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: and pose the offer, an offer that would spare his life,

475
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: an offer from the very government he was hell bent

476
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: on overthrown with his actions.

477
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 8: I had developed a really good relationship with Eric, but

478
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 8: we never ever discussed plea. It never came up. It

479
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 8: was never something that was in play. So my concern

480
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 8: is that if I discussed it with him, which I

481
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 8: was ethically bound to do, then he might lose confidence

482
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 8: and get shocked and think that we thought that we

483
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 8: couldn't successfully defend him here in Birmingham. So I was

484
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 8: braced for a pretty vociferous reaction, but instead it was

485
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 8: a subdued Eric. And when I asked him ultimately, so

486
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 8: it comes down to this, do you want to live?

487
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 8: And his voice softened and he went, yes, I want

488
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 8: to live. That certainly surprised me, but I can tell

489
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 8: you that having represented thousands of people and had this

490
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 8: discussion with fouls of people, there are plenty of people

491
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 8: that just aren't completed and are going to think the

492
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 8: lawyer's lost confidence in the case. But Eric was pragmatic

493
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 8: enough and knew the case well enough that he was

494
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 8: able to make what quite honestly was a wise decision.

495
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: As part of the plea agreement to avoid the death sentence,

496
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: Rudolph gave up the location of a massive arsenal of

497
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: dynamite he had stored deep in the woods, This dynamite

498
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: was linked to a December nineteen ninety six robbery of

499
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: more than three hundred and forty pounds of nitroglycer and

500
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: dynamite in Asheville, North Carolina. By ATF's estimates, only about

501
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: thirty pounds of the three hundred and forty pounds of

502
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: dynamite had been used in Rudolph's bombings, which meant there

503
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: was a lot more dynamite that still needed to be secured.

504
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: Rudolph stockpile was hidden in the woods of the Nanahalo Forest,

505
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: buried at five different sites. When federal authorities found it,

506
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: it was unstable, ready to blow with even a hint

507
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: of a spark. Agents destroyed the dynamite through a series

508
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: of somewhat controlled detonations that rattled the surrounding areas and

509
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: left a lasting imprint on the National Forest forever marked

510
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: Eric Rudolph slept here.

511
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 13: I mean, obviously, when the Centennial Park bombing happened during

512
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 13: the Olympics, people were stunned. I mean, this was supposed

513
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 13: to be an event that showcased Atlanta, and it clearly

514
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 13: left a scar behind, and then you had years of

515
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 13: uncertainty about who actually did People thought it was Eric Rudolf,

516
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 13: but was unclear and until he was captured and then

517
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 13: ultimately decide to plead guilty, and that'll happen today.

518
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: On April fourteenth, two thousand and five, Eric Rudolph pleaded guilty,

519
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: confessing to his crimes, clarifying his motives and articulating his

520
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: ideology of hatred in an eleven page confession.

521
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 14: When it was Rudolph's turn to speak, he ranted like

522
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 14: a madman, claiming he was fighting for life by attacking

523
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 14: an abortion mill.

524
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 11: Rudolph says he the Olympics went terribly rawing never intended

525
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 11: to hurt anybody. If you've seen a mock up at

526
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 11: the bomb, that's laughable. Of course, he intended to hurt people,

527
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 11: but I think he didn't get the kind of positive

528
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 11: reinforcement he expected from the Olympics.

529
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 14: His sentencing hearing was emotionally riching. Survivors of his clinic

530
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 14: bombing finally got the opportunity to lash out at Rudolph.

531
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 10: I was not happy about it. I wanted a trial.

532
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 10: I wanted all the evidence to come out. He probably

533
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 10: would not have taken the stand, but I wanted to

534
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 10: hear the preponderance of evidence against him. But I understand

535
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 10: from where the prosecutors were coming from, although I was

536
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 10: not happy with them, but they were just doing their job.

537
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 10: But I wanted to see a trial and we were

538
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 10: all denied that.

539
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 14: Andy Sanderson's widow understands why prosecutors agreed to the plea deal.

540
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 14: The deal spared Rudolph's life, even though he took her

541
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 14: husband's look.

542
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 15: I leave Eric Rudolph's final punishment in God's hands. And

543
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 15: I looked him in the face in that court Remus

544
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 15: the one time I did, and I said that to him.

545
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 15: That's the only thing I said to him. That's the

546
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 15: only thing I ever care to say to it.

547
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 14: Staring him dead in the eye. Emily Lyons blasted Eric Rudolf,

548
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 14: calling him a failure and a coward who had spent

549
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 14: his life in prison rather than risk death.

550
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 12: In my opinion, he got off easy. He killed people,

551
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 12: he planned it. How much more premeditated murder do you

552
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 12: need to get a death penalty? That's what I wanted.

553
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 12: I wanted to be able to sit in the road

554
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 12: before the window like you always see on TV, and

555
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 12: be the face that he sees before he does. That's

556
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 12: where I wanted to be be able to sit there

557
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 12: and watch him die as he stood there and watched

558
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 12: Sandyda says he stood there and tried to kill me.

559
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 9: They're very secretive about who's even brought to Colorado for that. Facility.

560
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: ADX Florence is a federal supermax in Florence, Colorado. It

561
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: houses inmates that are deemed the most dangerous and capable

562
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: of extreme violence, including El Chapo, the Unibomber, the OKC bomber,

563
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: one of the Boston Marathon bombers, and the Shoe bomber.

564
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: It's where Eric Rudolph was sent.

565
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 9: It's the most secure prison in the United States, and

566
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 9: it's full of the worst in the United States.

567
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: Everything is made of concrete, the walls, the floor, the desk,

568
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: the sink, your bed, and inmates are fine to their

569
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: cells for twenty three hours a day. You're truly shut

570
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: off from the world.

571
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 9: No one's ever escaped, and I don't think mister Rudolph

572
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 9: will have any ability to and I don't think he'll

573
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 9: be communicating with anybody from there either.

574
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 10: January sixteenth, and I call it Family Survival Day because

575
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 10: our entire family survived, and I do once in a

576
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 10: while get on the Internet and look up details about supermacs,

577
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 10: just to kind of get an idea of what he's

578
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 10: going through. I mean, he gets one hour of outside.

579
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 10: But it's interesting when they go into their courtyard. Apparently

580
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 10: things are so covered up you don't see the sky.

581
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 10: You basically walk around and whatever, and then you go

582
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 10: back in and the only window you have in that

583
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 10: cell this is a skinny little thing. And even then

584
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 10: they say, when you look out of those windows, you

585
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 10: can't see anything.

586
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 12: My parents were sitting behind me and my sister and

587
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 12: my daughter, because I wanted them to see the person

588
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 12: who did this to me.

589
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: Emily Lyons is describing the last time she saw Eric

590
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: Rudolf in the courtroom.

591
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 12: My parents were close to ninety at that point. They

592
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 12: were brought up in a small town. You know, nobody

593
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 12: went around killing people. I wanted for them to know

594
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 12: that there are people out there like that, to let

595
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 12: them know that this isn't just an isolated event.

596
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: Emily's right. Eric Rudolf is not nicely an event. He's

597
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: a relentless presence, part of a relentless movement, an echo

598
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: in our minds and in our daily lives. His actions

599
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: are inescapable permanent life altering and understanding him is not

600
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: about empathy. It's about confronting and holding uncomfortable and contradictory truths.

601
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: But regardless of the motivation, how does a person arrive

602
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: at that conclusion? What activates them? How the fuck does

603
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: someone go from I don't agree with you too, I'm

604
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: going to kill you. Why do you think he did

605
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: what he did?

606
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 12: I think Herdoff did all this because of what he

607
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 12: had been brought up in the religion, the skinhead part

608
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 12: of his existence, radical ideas that he obtained early on.

609
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 12: He just continued on that. It's like talking to about

610
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 12: a closed mind. He was closed mind. All he had

611
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 12: in his head was hatred, religious oddities, things that most

612
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 12: normal people don't have. But he just had it drilled

613
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 12: in for so long that there want anything else to

614
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 12: think about. This is it. There's no other no other thought,

615
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 12: no other opinion, no other action. This is it. This

616
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 12: is the way the world is. We're going to fix that.

617
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 12: Kill them, kill them all.

618
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: Someone who holds these convictions, who could commit such acts

619
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: of extraordinary evil, That's not normally someone I'd ever want

620
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: to talk to. But this isn't normal. This is where

621
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: we're at and I have to try. The Supermax in

622
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: Florence is the highest security prison in the United States,

623
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: but they do allow for communication via letters to inmates,

624
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: including Eric Rudolph. Dear mister Rudolph. My name is Cola Cassio.

625
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: I was born on May twentieth, nineteen ninety seven. There's

626
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: no way you can know this, but my mom was

627
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: scheduled to have an abortion at the Sandy Springs abortion

628
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: clinic on January seventeenth, the day after you bombed it.

629
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: She was just seventeen years old at the time, and

630
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: ultimately she decided not to terminate her pregnancy. I was

631
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: born four months later. Truth be told, I don't support

632
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: what you did, but at the same time, I only

633
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: exist because of your actions, and I think about this

634
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm very curious about you and the things

635
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: that motivate you to plant and detonate those bombs. I'm

636
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: also curious to know what you would say to me

637
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: after hearing my story. If it's at all possible, I

638
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: would like to speak with you, sincerely, col A Cassio.

639
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: Flashpoint is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeartMedia.

640
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Cola Cassio, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay

641
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Flashpoint was created, written,

642
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: and executive produced by Doug Mattica and myself on behalf

643
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: of seven nine ninety seven. Lead producer is Alex Vespustad,

644
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: along with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith. Our Associate producer

645
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: is Wit Lucasio. Editing by alex Espostat with additional editing

646
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: by Liam Luxon and Sidney Evans. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.

647
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: Artwork by Station sixteen, original music by Jay Ragsdale mixed

648
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: by Dayton Cole. Thank you to Orrin Rosenbaum and the

649
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: team at Uta Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group.

650
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Angela q, Tylie Revive, Mattica and Tim Livingston.

651
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like Flashpoint, search Tenderfoot TV on your

652
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: favorite podcast s app or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv.

653
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Flashpoint.

654
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly ssolutely free, but for ad

655
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Speaker 1: free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe

656
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