1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello, I'll come to save our protection of I heart 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: radio and stuff media. I'm Annis and I'm Lauren vocal 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Bam and today we've got a classic Savor episode for 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: you from back when it was food stuff about Graham Crackers, 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: a subject I feel surprisingly passionate about. Yeah, yes, yes, yeah, 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: this uh for people who don't know when we first 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: started this, this was one I really wanted to talk 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: about because Graham Crackers named after this one dude who 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: who was real wild. Yes, that's a that's a way 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: to put it. Yes, permanently changed our diet industry the 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: way we look at diet, I would say, yes, which 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: is kind of why we wanted to do this classic 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: episode now in this month of January when many humans 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: are trying to perhaps revamp their their food and uh 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: and exercise routines. Right. Yeah, it's it's weird because it 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: did start out as this diet saying and it became 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: very much not what he intended it to be, absolutely not. 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: And I feel like it's it's a static product now 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: because you know, doing our due diligence and uh in 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: putting out a classic episode, I googled Graham Crackers and like, yeah, 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: there's no like wacky flavors. It's not like sour apple 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: graham crackers, like there's no like, no, there's room. There's 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: no blue raspberry graham crackers out there yet yet. It's 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: just the beginning of Oh, that's true. Can have some 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: weird stuff in store for us. I'm sure you know. 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: The only things that I found are that apparently Popeyes 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: came out with a with a a pie like a 28 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: handheld pie, right, normal handheld pie crust, and inside it 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: has strawberry cheesecake filling and also graham cracker crumbs. So 30 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: the crust is inside the crust. If that's not a 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: metaphor for something, and I don't know what it is, 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: The crust is inside the crust, everybody, the call is 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: coming from inside the cross. Oh wow, yeah, I read 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: it says it's still I don't know. Um, your mileage 35 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: may vary. You know, I've never been to Popeyes, and 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I might be time. Gosh, yes, this 37 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: this was the thing. It was the thing Dylan I 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: posted on our Instagram one of my very rare story 39 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: posts that he gave me for Christmas, a Avengers gingerbread 40 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: So you can like build the city and then you 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: have a little of injured characters and they're going to battle. 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:37,119 Speaker 1: I might bring it to D and D. I don't know. Great, Yeah, yeah, 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: Graham crackers are an occasional building material for gingerbread type 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: type situations. Sure, I just I did also find a 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: apparently Austin p State University has an annual um Graham 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: Cracker construction contest. Yes. Yes, the students are supposed to 47 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: recreate historic building or modern buildings, either out of graham 48 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: crackers and like roll icing and candy see. And she 49 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: showed me some pictures and they look fantastic. They do, 50 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: they do. They're like like multi story, which I am 51 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: very impressed by. Yes, well I am too, because this 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: bought back. Apparently I've got a lot of issues around 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: graham crackers because when I was in high school, we 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: had to build a bridge out of only two materials 55 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: and I made a very foolish decision and did graham 56 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: crackers and glue. And let me tell you the stress 57 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: of knowing like the glue just wouldn't dry, it wouldn't 58 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: hold it. I'd be in class, like I gotta go 59 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: in I gotta go home between classes and try to 60 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: reclue it and try to just and it was just sticky, 61 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: and it kept falling and gets so mad at to 62 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: break it, and then I had to start from Oh 63 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the moisture would like seep into the 64 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: graam Crackers and cause like points of weakness in the structures. 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, stare Cracker disaster. Perhaps that's why I was 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: so ready to go in. I hate guy tastes great, 67 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: I love a Graham Cracker, right, It just maybe we're 68 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: not the wise construction choice that I should have made. Well, 69 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: I did learn. We we live, and sometimes we learn. 70 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: Sometimes we do. Occasionally sometimes they're a Graham Cracker based 71 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: lesson uh And speaking of, we are going to let 72 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: former Annie and Lauren take it away. Hello, and welcome 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: to food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogavon and I'm Annie Reese 74 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: and this is the second part of our summer kickoff. 75 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: Very celebratory. Yeah, our punchy two potter on marshmallows and 76 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: Graham Crackers. It's very punchy. And for those who have 77 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: been listening to previous episodes, you know we've been dying 78 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: to talk about doctor Graham and the Graham Cracker since 79 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: the beginning. Yeah, especially Annie, this is I think this 80 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: is your your super passion project. Yeah, I made. I 81 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: sent Laura in an email and I had a picture 82 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: of Dr Graham with the target on the space. Oh yeah, 83 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: and how how has someone who invented the graham cracker 84 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: incited Annie's I are like this, We're going to talk 85 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: about it. Yes, I'm gonna talk all about it. But 86 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: first let's talk about what exactly a graham cracker is. Well, 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: a graham cracker is a lightly sweetened, puffy cracker. Properly, 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: it should be made at least partially with a type 89 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: of whole wheat flower called graham flower. And okay, let's 90 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: go on, a slight flower tangent so so so so 91 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: wheat flowers. Wheat flowers are made up of ground wheat grains, 92 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: which are seeds composed of of a germ, you know, 93 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: the little growy bit. It's filled with fats and vitamins. 94 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: That's the rounded by an endospermum, which is the food 95 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: for the germ. It's made of carbs and proteins, and 96 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: all of that is wrapped up in the brand, which 97 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: is the fibrous outer layer that protects everything and keeps 98 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: it inside. A white flour is made from wheat grains 99 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: that have had the tough bran and germ removed. In 100 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: most whole wheat flowers, that stuff is sifted out during 101 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: the grinding and then at least some of it is 102 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: ground and then added back in. But in graham flour, 103 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the whole grain is ground together sort of coarsely, more 104 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: like a meal than a flower almost, and traditionally that's 105 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: what gives graham crackers that sort of fine grit that 106 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: you that you wouldn't get in other whole wheat flower preparations. Yes, 107 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: they should be sweetened partially with molasses or brown sugar 108 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: to kind of round out their toasty sweet flavor. And 109 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: they're similar to the digestive biscuits of the United Kingdom, 110 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: if that's what you're familiar with. They're sort of like 111 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: a graham cracker. I've always loved the name digestive biscuit 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: right makes me feel like I have it after dinner 113 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: to help my stomach digest things don't so healthful. You're 114 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: doing yourself a favor, I'm sure. I'm sure that I am, 115 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: especially when they're covered in chocolate. Yes, oh well, then yes, 116 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: that is a favor. Maybe not a healthy one, but 117 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: it's a favorite. So now that we know what the 118 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: Graham Cracker is, let's talk about how it came to be. First, 119 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: we should point out that the modern Graham Cracker has 120 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: undergone quite the Hollywood transformation and does not much resemble 121 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: what its first incarnation was at all at all. And 122 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: to understand the history of the Graham Cracker, we have 123 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: to talk about one doctor Sylvester Graham. Graham was born 124 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: in Connecticut, and he was one of seventeen children. Yeah, 125 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: his father died when he was a baby, and his 126 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: mother suffered from a mental illness, so he stayed with 127 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: a series of relatives growing up. For a stent, he 128 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: lived with the owner of a tavern who put Graham 129 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: work in said tavern, and his experience with drunks and 130 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: drunkenness led Graham to swear off alcohol forever. He held 131 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: many jobs, from farm hand to teacher, but one constant 132 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: thing he dealt with was illness. In his late twenties, 133 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: health permitting, he attended Amherst Academy in Massachusetts, where evidently 134 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: he enjoyed popularity among the ladies. The other fellows were 135 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: quite jealous and conspired to get him kicked out of 136 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: the college by lying about his improper interactions with said ladies. Yeah, 137 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: and apparently it worked, and he was giving the all 138 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: he hoped and his health failed. He had a nervous 139 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: breakdown and he had to move to Rhode Island to recover. 140 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: Why Rhode Island, I don't know, but he did in 141 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: eighteen six and that same year he got married, was 142 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: ordained as a Presbyterian minister, and became the minister of 143 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: a congregation in New Jersey. So quite the year for him. 144 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: He was pretty well liked, except for one minor thing. 145 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: The sermons he gave railing against alcohol, because at the 146 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: time alcohol was pretty much everywhere, and it was just 147 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: sort of a thing you did at social events. It 148 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: was the hospitable thing to do, offer somebody to drink. 149 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: People at that time drink about three times as much 150 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: as we do today. Yeah. Yeah, And it was still 151 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: commonly used medicinally for all kinds of things, including what 152 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: we malcohol stress use it medicinality for that sometimes too, 153 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: uh huh, Well they did back then. Graham left his 154 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: congregation in eighteen thirty and was hired by the Pennsylvania 155 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: Society for the Suppression of Ardent Spirits quite a name 156 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: to go around speaking about the health risk and immorality 157 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: of alcohol. This was all part of the temperance movement 158 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: that was sweeping the United States from the eighteen twenties 159 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: through through at least the forties on into the seventies 160 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: and eighties as well. Started large in Protestant churches, but 161 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: expanding into local and national groups. And that this movement 162 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: was largely run and led by women and was thus 163 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: sort of surprisingly feminist in some ways. It wound up 164 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: pushing for women's rights. It also led to the passing 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: of laws that would eventually culminate in a prohibition. Nationwide 166 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: prohibition but yeah, as of the eighteen thirties and involved 167 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: a lot of groups hiring people to go around and 168 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: preach virtue and good health via abstaining from alcohol. And 169 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: Graham was great at these preachings. He was so great 170 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: that people began calling him doctor Graham, even though he's 171 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: not a real doctor, doctor Graham that I thought he 172 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: was a real doctor me too, man. Huh. Inter Cholera 173 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: outbreak of eighteen thirty two, Oh my goodness, panic sweeps 174 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: the nation. Doctor's call for a curative composed in part 175 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: of Brandy, but Graham was having none of it. He 176 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: said that drug shops were lurking at every corner, eating 177 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: quote like so many craters of hell to vomit out 178 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: the love of death. What. Yeah, he's not messing around. Nope. 179 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: In Graham's book, your best bet to prevent cholera was, 180 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't worry about it and ignore these doctors. Instead, 181 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: you need to bathe at regular intervals, spend some time 182 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: in the great outdoors, breathing that fresh air, getting some exercise, 183 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: drink pure water, and absolutely the most important eat foods 184 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: of the plant kingdom. No meat, no alcohol, no tobacco, 185 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: and no absolutely do not even think about having any 186 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: white bread. And as a result of this, vegetarianism started 187 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: to become more well known. I should point out that 188 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: a lot of that's pretty good advice. Yes, uh, this 189 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: is kind of the start of preventative like lifestyles. Yeah, 190 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: which is nice. Oh oh yeah, I have no problem 191 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: with that at all. Yeah. Meanwhile, while all of this 192 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: was happening, the food industry was busy industrializing. As we 193 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: touched on in our Sour Dough episode, this significantly impacted 194 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: bread moving it out of something that was baked in 195 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: homes into large factories and depleting a lot of the 196 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: nutritional value. And technologies had been developed the could grind 197 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: flower finer and sift out the brand and the germ. 198 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: And Graham did not approve. No, No, he thought it 199 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: led to a lazy colon. That's it's horrible, which I 200 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: guess is partially true ish because you know the fibers 201 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: taken out um and also bakeries at the time were 202 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: unregulated and that they didn't necessarily always use good ingredients. 203 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: There's all kinds of rumors about that, you know, like 204 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: dry wall getting mixed up in there or something like that. 205 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it was drywall plastic. I don't think 206 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: dry wall is invented for a while later. But and 207 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: Graham believed lifestyle as prevention was what God had always intended, 208 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: So he was one of the first to popularize the 209 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: idea of religion and health, our morality and health in 210 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: our culture. If you were getting sick, you were violating 211 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: a law of life laid down by God. Graham thought 212 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: this to be his god given mission to promote this diet, 213 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: to save Americans from their immoral diet choices, and to 214 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: be fair, because we can't tell I got a bit 215 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: of a bee for the Graham. It sounds like he 216 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: was saying repeated in fractions for the culprit, like eating 217 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: too much meat or drinking too much alcohol. But still 218 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: he argued that gluttony is quote one of the greatest 219 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: sources of evil to the human family. Yeah, and another thing, 220 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: The Graham diet, as it was known, was also meant 221 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: to prevent what was seen by many as the evils 222 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: of the day, lust masturbation in all manner of sexual 223 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: immorality quote unquote. Right, by following his diet avoiding over stimulation, 224 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: which included feather beds and warm food food your loveto 225 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: would greatly decrease and protect you from such sinful temptation. 226 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: He went around giving lectures about sexual chastity, saying things 227 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: along the lines of like spicy foods lead to a 228 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: spicy constitution and should be avoided. And he particularly maligned masturbation, 229 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: which he believed caused blindness and insanity. Yeah, he believed 230 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: that masturbating inflames the brain even more so than sex, 231 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: which he believed that no one should have more than 232 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: once a month. Oh, He thought that if you exercised 233 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: your lust too much, your children would die young because 234 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: you had deluded your reproductive abilities. Yeah, there's this whole 235 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: thing where they thought sperm was sacred at the time, 236 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: and you only had a certain amount. And everyone was like, 237 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: this perfect thing and you shouldn't waste it, don't use 238 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: it up. M uh. And though there were a fair 239 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: amount of skeptics, Graham attracted quite the following of supporters 240 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: who ron Hoden as graham Mites. They climbed the diet, 241 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: cured all kinds of things, and some of them lived 242 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: in communities together. And this is about the time we 243 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: finally arrived at the Graham Cracker. But first quick break 244 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank 245 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So let's go back to that white bread thing, 246 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: because it is central to the Graham Crackers origin story. 247 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: In seven Graham wrote this this thing called treat Us 248 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: on Bread and Breadmaking, which sounds lovely just by the title, 249 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: I mean share that's that's I would read a treat 250 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Use on Bread and bread Making. A snippet from the introduction. 251 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: Thousands in civic life will for years and perhaps as 252 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: long as they live eat the most miserable trash that 253 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: can be imagined in the form of bread, and never 254 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: seemed to think that they can possibly have anything better, 255 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: not even that it is an evil to eat such 256 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: a vile stuff as they do. I have thought, therefore, 257 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: that I could hardly do society a better service than 258 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: to publish the following treatise on a subject which, whether 259 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: people are aware that are not, in reality, is very 260 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: great importance to the health and comfort of everyone. So 261 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: that's not so lovely. I'd be very disappointed that I 262 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: picked up this book expecting like wonderful bread recipes. Yeah. None, 263 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: None of that was contained therein In this book he 264 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: advocated for making bread using a method he developed of 265 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: grinding up whole week kernels. Uh and the resulting product 266 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: was the courser than your average whole wheat flour that 267 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: came to be known as Graham flower. And this vilification 268 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: of commercialized bread and those that made it led to 269 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: Graham being mobbed by some angry bakers, also some butcher's. 270 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: At some point he thought that he was bad for business, 271 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: and this wasn't the first time he was mommed either. 272 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: In four a group of women mobbed him at a 273 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: lecture about chastity. But I believe this had more to 274 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: do with a man speaking to women in public about 275 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: sex than any sort of backlash against chastity. According to Graham, 276 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: bread had to be made by wives and mothers with 277 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: love and care, which would then lead to a happy 278 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: digestive system of those who ate it. A lot of 279 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: women didn't like this because the introduction of commercialized bread 280 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: had freed up some of their time. Now get back 281 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: in the kitchen, yell. Yeah. Graham would use the Graham 282 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: flower to make Graham crackers, but like we said, they 283 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: were a far cry from today's Graham crackers. Oh yeah, 284 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: no they were. They were not sweetened, they contained no fat. 285 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: It was basically just just this graham flower and water. 286 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm uh. He sold and produced produced them locally, 287 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: but without profit because he believed that to be immoral. 288 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And o Berlin adopted the Graham diet for their diet 289 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: plan in Yes Uh. Three years later, students were protesting 290 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: and a professor was fired for using the forbidden sexually 291 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: provocative pepper, and Oberlin dropped the diet from their dining halls, 292 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: and by the late eighteen thirties, Graham's influence started to wane. 293 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: I can't can't imagine that. I mean, you know, you 294 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: feed these people like something that has to be boiled 295 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: basically in order to be edible. And why why would 296 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: people protest that? I don't know. Why would college students 297 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: not be down with that? I'm not sure. It's one 298 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: of the great mysteries. The New York Times wrote in 299 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty six that graham is um was quote the 300 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: most pernicious and abhorrent, a fanatical attempt to shut out 301 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: from mankind certain sources of happiness and enjoyment which were 302 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: clearly provided and intended for them in the economy of 303 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: the earth. That's pretty harsh criticism right there. Partially because 304 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: he thought it was immoral to sell things. He died 305 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: totally broke and in destitution in eight one at the 306 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: age of one. And guess who drew inspiration from Dr Graham. 307 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: Our friend, doctor Kellogg, although he's an actual doctor at 308 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: least at least at least yeah, I guess uh. In fact, 309 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: some people argue that Graham's greatest legacy is his influence 310 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: on Kellogg, who was a Graham might using graham flower, 311 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: among other things, he invented a rather bland cereal he 312 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: called granola, and launching off its success, he went on 313 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: to formulate corn flakes. But so, how on earth did 314 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: we go from from this terrible, healthful, bland cracker that 315 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: you might have had to boil before eating, to the 316 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: lovely sweet sandwich capturer of marshmallows, friend of some mores. 317 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, pie crust ingredient. Yeah, how did we do it? 318 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after another quick word from our sponsor, 319 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So although Graham passed away, 320 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: his graham flower would live on, and by the late 321 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, recipes for Graham flour crackers involving sugar and butter, 322 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god or lard goodness, uh would start to emerge. Um. 323 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: Although the unsweetened version was still made, they were called 324 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: more often Graham wafers than Graham crackers, and commercial bakeries 325 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: were also starting to sell them. Then in eight the 326 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: National Biscuit Company formed, and this was a conglomeration of 327 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: a hundred and fourteen independent baker's and they would easily 328 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 1: dominate the cracker market in the United States. According to 329 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: one Thomas s Olive, Olive with two L's a noted 330 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: biscuit man uh and the vice president of the company. Uh. 331 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: He said the formation of the National Biscuit Company resulted 332 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: in practically a new biscuit industry. So thorough was the 333 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: revolution which took place. That sounds very epic. It was. 334 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: It was around that time that innovations in manufacturing technology 335 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: allowed for the formerly kind of fussy and labor intensive 336 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: process of making and cutting crackers to become easier and 337 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: more automated a dough mixers and and stamp cutters, stuff 338 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: like that. But there was a bit of an upset 339 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen ten where some dishonest mills were selling whole 340 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: wheat flour that had been sifted and only how to 341 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: little bit of the brand worked back in as graham Flower. 342 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: The U. S d A Bureau of Chemistry, which was 343 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: a thing uh prior to the f d A. The U. 344 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: S d A Bureau of Chemistry did a really extensive analysis, 345 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: really extensive. This was serious. It sounds serious. I don't 346 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: don't market things that aren't Graham Flowers, grand Flower. Don't 347 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: you do it any reas it's the ghost of Dr Graham. 348 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: I know what you've done. Meanwhile, in n the Pacific 349 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: Coast Biscuit Company, another cracker conglomerate. Apparently there was a 350 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: lot of those back in the day they launched their 351 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: honeymade line. Perhaps you've heard of them, Um that they 352 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: would be purchased by the National Biscuit Company five years later, 353 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: National Biscuit Company. Nubisco. I can't believe I'd never had together. 354 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,479 Speaker 1: I had no idea. No. I probably if it had 355 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: been like one dude who invented it. As is, most 356 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: of our episodes can be traced back there's one guy. Yeah, 357 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: that's what I would have thought, that it was a 358 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: guy named Nibisco. Yeah. Mr Nibiscoe. Nope, no National Phisit Company. 359 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: These nineteen twenties Ish Graham crackers were marketed with the 360 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: with the name sugar in their name for a long time, 361 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: because cookies were sometimes called sugar crackers. Yeah, And further 362 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: innovations over the next few decades would develop the process 363 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: that is used today. UM. Massive drums mixed the dough, 364 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: a series of gauged rollers squitch it down to the 365 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: right thickness, rotary cutters slice it into shape, and the 366 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: crackers are baked in a in a tunnel oven on conveyor. 367 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: There's a lot of gesture happening right now. Yes. By 368 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, Graham cracker crumbs became a popular ingredient 369 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: in desserts, and in their current form, most mass produced 370 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: graham crackers are actually not made from gram flower. They're 371 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: made mostly of white flower and are colored to achieve 372 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: the whole wheat look. Modern animal crackers are usually made 373 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: of the same dough. Oh, I don't like canimal crackers. No, 374 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: do you like graham crackers? I do. And this is 375 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: one of the great ironies is that they were invented 376 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: as a health food using gram flower, and now they 377 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: are not a health food and they don't use gram flower, 378 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: They're still called Graham crackers. I think. I think our 379 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: friend Dr Graham is rolling in his grave. I think 380 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: so too, although his I mean preventative lifestyle. And I 381 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: did read a lot of people who conveniently glossed over 382 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: the whole masturbation and six all that being evil thing 383 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: to praise him for helping spread vegetarianism and a healthy lifestyle. Yeah, 384 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: which I can appreciate, Yeah, absolutely, I mean that other 385 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: stuff was it was crazy. The problem. I'm not going 386 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: to go into the whole tangent of why I don't 387 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: like uh, doctor Graham. But there are some videos from 388 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: my old show stuff I've never told you. Can you 389 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: check it out. I have more of a problem of 390 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: that that it's tied to morality, and that we've tied 391 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: weight to morality, because you can't. I mean so much 392 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: genetics is involved. Oh yeah, yeah, and then there and 393 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: there's so many different body types and there's nothing that 394 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: says that that any one of them is a healthy one. Yes, 395 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: exactly for any given person. That's my main problem. Yes, 396 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: if you don't want to buy a Graham cracker at 397 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: the store, you could make your own. You can. I 398 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: have never done this. Have you done this? But I 399 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: contemplated seriously doing it because I have a I have 400 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: a recipe book and I have the page folded down. 401 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: Perhaps it will happen in the near future. I've heard 402 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: it's worthwhile. Alton Brown and Smitten Kitchen both have recipes 403 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: that look pretty excellent. Um. You don't strictly have to 404 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: track down Graham flower but um, but specialty companies like 405 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: King Arthur and Bob's Redmill stuff like that, they do 406 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: totally sell it. So you can find it. Yeah, I 407 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,239 Speaker 1: don't think I've ever I've never been looking for it, 408 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: but I don't think I've ever seen Graham flower. I 409 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: don't think I have either, But again, yeah, might just 410 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: glossed right over it. It definitely exists, and I think 411 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: that's about what we have to say about Graham Crackers. Yeah. 412 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what you were expecting when you clicked 413 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: on this episode, but this isn't what I was expecting 414 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: to be reading about today. No, and I would, uh, well, 415 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to do this, but 416 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: I took a moment to do this and think about 417 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: kind of the impact that people like Graham and Kellogg 418 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: had on how we view diet today, and also just 419 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: products and how they're marketed and what we can still buy. 420 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 1: I think it's worth pondering perhaps, yeah, that could just 421 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: be made. So this brings us to the end of 422 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: this classic episode. A fascinating story. Yes, absolutely twists and 423 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: turns in this one. It really uh. I think I 424 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: think says a lot about how willing people are to 425 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: to glom on to a concept that someone puts in 426 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: front of them, as as you know, like, hey, this 427 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: is a lifestyle thing. This sounds good, it will make 428 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: you feel good. It's kind of moralistic, it's super moralistic. Yeah. Um. 429 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: And you know, and all humans have a little part 430 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: of their brain that's like, oh, I want to be good, 431 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: and you know, so sometimes sometimes you follow along with stuff. 432 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess what I'm saying is, you know, hey, 433 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: in this our season of trying to change up our 434 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: our food and drink and exercise habits, you know, look 435 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: look at things with a with a critical eye. I agree, 436 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: because a lot of this stuff sounds silly to us now. 437 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: We're working on another episode soon also diet based with 438 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: a dude's name specific and it sounds silly to us now, 439 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: but I can slowly I get it. I can totally 440 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, especially when you didn't have the power 441 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: to like Google exactly, yeah exactly. So yeah, take care 442 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: of yourselves. Yeah yeah. Oh And speaking of I I 443 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: did want to say I refer in this episode too, 444 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: some of the ideas of Dr Graham Doctor Graham as 445 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: a as crazy and speaking of life lessons like like 446 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: that that is a word that I tried not to apply, 447 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: especially in a derogatory sense, towards anything or anyone in 448 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: these are modern times. This was published back in one 449 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: of our very early episodes, and so yeah, I just 450 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, wanted to say like apologies for anyone who 451 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: heard that and was a little bit offended, and uh, yeah, 452 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: we're all we're all learning all the time. That's right, 453 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: the best we can do. And if you would like 454 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: to email us about what's how your has started, yeah 455 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: you can. Our email is hello at savor pod dot com. 456 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, 457 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to 458 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio 459 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: and Stuff Media. For more podcast my Heart Radio, you 460 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 461 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always 462 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: for super producers Andrew Howard and Dylan Fagan. Thanks to 463 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: you for listening, and we hope that lots more good 464 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: things are coming your way.