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Speaker 1: Hi there, friends. It's Josh. Finally, I'm here and I'm

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Speaker 1: presenting first our episode on the Philadelphia Experiment. It's a

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Speaker 1: bizarre conspiracy theory that in 1943, the USS Eldridge, which

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Speaker 1: is a real destroyer from the real U.S. Navy, suddenly

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Speaker 1: disappeared from port and instantaneously reappeared miles away. And that

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Speaker 1: when it did reappear, things weren't quite right with it.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave it to past me and Chuck to give

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Speaker 1: the details in this fascinating episode.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And this is a special edition

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Speaker 1: of Stuff You Should Know because Jerry has transmogrified into

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Speaker 1: guest producer Noel.

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Speaker 2: Which is... requires quite a bit of alchemy.

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Speaker 1: It does.

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: And a little bit of alcohol. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And some, like a magnificent brown bearded chia pet.

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Speaker 1: Nice. There's a woodchuck waving from there. Looking good, Noel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jerry's gone on a top secret mission. Can't talk

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Speaker 2: about it, so it makes it top secret.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about it right now.

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Speaker 2: But she's coming back at some point, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She's not left us forever.

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Speaker 1: No, this is a stint. by guest producer no we'll

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Speaker 1: have to make a suite out.

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Speaker 2: Of it yeah uh noel produced shows you should.

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Speaker 1: Know summer of sam death suite noel.

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Speaker 2: Stint noel stint that sounds.

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Speaker 1: Gross uh how you doing man i'm great i'm so

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Speaker 1: used to reading ads these days that like i just

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Speaker 1: panicked like i lost my place and then i was

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Speaker 1: like oh yeah it's the actual podcast i can just

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Speaker 1: ramble and stall as long as i need to yeah

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Speaker 1: You remember this from being a kid? Was this in

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Speaker 1: your wheelhouse, the Philadelphia Experiment?

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Speaker 2: The movie was.

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Speaker 1: Watched it last night. Sure.

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Speaker 2: Oh, did you really?

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: It is basically, I mean, the plot makes sense, but

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Speaker 1: it's like a 15-minute plot. Yeah. They manage a lot

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Speaker 1: of chasing in.

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Speaker 2: To really draw it out. Yeah, they really gussied. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they drew it out.

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Speaker 1: But the idea behind it, especially when, let's see, 1984,

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Speaker 1: I was eight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this was about the time where I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to Duke University to study parapsychology when I get older.

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Speaker 2: When you were eight? Yeah. I didn't know what college

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Speaker 2: was when I was eight.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, that was in my wheelhouse. Really? Yeah. Wow. So

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Speaker 1: this was like right up my alley. Yeah. Now that

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Speaker 1: I watch it as a child, I'm like, man, I

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Speaker 1: was an idiot when I was eight. Yeah. But it

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Speaker 1: was pretty cool. The special effects are like 80s-rific.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yes. They do not hold up.

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Speaker 1: No. But I mean, if you're a fan of Tron... Sure.

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Speaker 1: Or Videodrome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You're going to love this movie.

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Speaker 2: Starring the great Michael Perret.

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Speaker 1: Yes. And RoboCop's partner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy Allen.

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Speaker 1: Was she, who, what else was she in famously?

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Speaker 2: She was in a bunch of 80s movies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She was big back then.

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Speaker 1: What was her big one though? Or was she always

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Speaker 1: like co-starring the female lead?

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I don't think she was ever like

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Speaker 2: the lead in a movie. They didn't make movies with

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Speaker 2: female leads in the 80s.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember in this context, are we allowed to

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Speaker 1: say female or should it be the girl lead? It's

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Speaker 1: a female lead, right?

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Speaker 2: They didn't make leads with women as the lead in

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Speaker 2: the 80s. They were all just there to prop up

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Speaker 2: the dudes.

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Speaker 1: Right. Which is still how it is. Although, Working Girl,

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Speaker 1: that was in the 80s.

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Speaker 2: Good point.

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Speaker 1: Nine to five.

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Speaker 2: Three ladies.

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Speaker 1: All right, I take it back. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Few and far between. I'm trying to lobby for gender

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Speaker 2: equality in Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you should.

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Speaker 2: And you're like, no, look at 9 to 5.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying. I mean, there were some.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I don't mean to argue. You're right.

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Speaker 1: They were few and far between.

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Speaker 2: That's what you call a trap.

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Speaker 1: What about Barbarella?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was 70s or was it 60s?

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Speaker 1: I think the 60s. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Jane Fonda.

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Speaker 1: Well, just like the makers of the Philadelphia Experiment, you

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Speaker 1: and I know how to draw out a 15-minute plot.

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Speaker 2: Hey, also I wanted to point out Michael Perrette. disappeared

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Speaker 2: in Eddie and the Cruisers.

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Speaker 1: Oh, was he in that?

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Speaker 2: He was Eddie.

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Speaker 1: Was that based on Bruce Springsteen or something like that? No.

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Speaker 1: Was it based on any real life band? No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it echoed. He was Springsteen-esque.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't like, you know, I think they were just,

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Speaker 2: I think the writer was like, who do I like? Eh,

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Speaker 2: I like Springsteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So let's get John Caffrey to sing like Springsteen and

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Speaker 2: put Michael Perret to lip sync.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's a.

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Speaker 2: That's Eddie.

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Speaker 1: That's 80s-rific, too.

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Speaker 2: And I saw John Cafferty in concert in the 80s.

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Speaker 2: That's how.

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Speaker 1: What else is he in?

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Speaker 2: No, he was the band. He was the real band.

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Speaker 2: John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown Band.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: They sang those songs for real, and I saw them

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Speaker 2: in concert at Six Flags.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: How about that?

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Speaker 1: And they've now become the Zac Brown Band.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Who looks like Noel.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Full circle.

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Speaker 1: Full circle, we just did it.

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Speaker 2: Can we be done now?

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Speaker 1: Yep. So the Philadelphia experiment, I guess, was right up

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Speaker 1: Michael Perry's alley because it echoed real life, too. In

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Speaker 1: a way. In a way. Sure. The makers went back

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Speaker 1: and read a couple of books that purported to be

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Speaker 1: nonfiction accounts of this incredible... experiment carried out by the Navy.

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Speaker 2: So incredible.

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Speaker 1: And we should probably, let's describe the experiment to begin with, right?

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Speaker 2: Experiments, we should say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. This article gets it wrong on how

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Speaker 1: stuff works.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were two separate things, both involving a destroyer

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Speaker 2: ship called the USS Eldridge, recently commissioned. Summer of 1943

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Speaker 2: is when it began.

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Speaker 1: July, I think.

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Speaker 2: And what supposedly happened was That there was this ship

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Speaker 2: and there was a big secret Navy experiment that whose

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Speaker 2: what's aim was to make the ship disappear. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Not just to like radar or something like that. But

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Speaker 1: if there was a guy with a periscope, he would

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Speaker 1: look right past the ship because it had been made invisible.

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Speaker 2: Essentially invisible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the story goes that that was successful.

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Speaker 1: It was a successful experiment that was carried out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it disappeared in full view in broad daylight from the,

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Speaker 2: was it the Philadelphia shipyard?

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And then reappeared. There was a big glow.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And then it reappeared and all the sailors aboard were

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Speaker 2: in bad shape.

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Speaker 1: So did that take place in July or was that?

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Speaker 2: That took place in July.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay. Then it happened again in October? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Within the second experiment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, then they retried the experiment. Supposedly, the ship disappeared

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Speaker 2: and popped up in Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Norfolk, Virginia.

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Speaker 2: And then reappeared 10 minutes prior. So it time-traveled back

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Speaker 2: 10 minutes to Philadelphia again.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And again, the sailors were in bad shape.

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Speaker 1: Even by teleportation standards, that's impossible. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and supposedly the shipmen were... seamen were... Some were caught, like,

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the ship.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And crazed and crazy.

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Speaker 1: Right. So, basically, the implication is that they had been

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Speaker 1: some sort of, or in some fashion, molecularly disintegrated.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Along with the ship. And then when it was brought

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Speaker 1: back together, the coordinates were maybe off slightly. Right. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the ship and the people were where they were 10

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Speaker 1: minutes earlier. Right. And... Things just went a little haywire.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, my upper half's on the Lido deck, and

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Speaker 2: my lower half's on the... What were the other decks

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Speaker 2: on the level?

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Speaker 1: The... Man, that's the only deck I know. The party deck.

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Speaker 2: The tango deck? Sure.

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Speaker 1: The tango deck. Uh-huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the... And I'm still alive, and I've also gone mad.

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Speaker 1: Because my brain didn't configure back correctly either.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and this was all possible thanks to... Albert Einstein

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Speaker 2: working with the Navy and teaching them all his little

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Speaker 2: tricks on how you can make ships disappear in time travel.

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Speaker 1: Specifically, the theory is that, or the rumor, the conjecture,

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Speaker 1: the conspiracy theory, is that Albert Einstein figured out the

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Speaker 1: unified field theory.

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Speaker 2: Which is not true. He did not.

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Speaker 1: Basically, the theory of everything. No, it frustrated him for

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Speaker 1: his whole life. There's this idea in physics that there's possibly...

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Speaker 1: one explanation for the behavior of everything in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we've got a pretty good theory. I think

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Speaker 1: the theory of special relativity ties in three of the

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Speaker 1: fundamental forces in the universe. But gravity is this outlier

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Speaker 1: that can't be tied in through physics formulas. And they

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Speaker 1: think that there's some way of understanding things to where

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Speaker 1: everything ties together. And as I think Michio Kaku famously

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Speaker 1: put it, he said that What they're searching for with

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Speaker 1: a unified field theory is with a formula an inch long,

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to read God's mind. So the idea

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Speaker 1: is that Einstein came up with this unified field theory. Again,

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Speaker 1: not true. And that it was used to understand how

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Speaker 1: to teleport things. So they used this understanding to carry

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Speaker 1: out an experiment with a bunch of Navy seamen on

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Speaker 1: a destroyer in broad daylight.

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Speaker 2: Because you can imagine the advantage of that. To be

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Speaker 2: able to make your ship invisible.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, if you could figure out how to

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Speaker 1: teleport it.

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Speaker 2: Like, you're done, dude. No more war because you would

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Speaker 2: win them all, and the rest of the world would

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Speaker 2: just cower at your invisible feet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd just suddenly pop up behind your enemy, put

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Speaker 1: him in a full Nelson, and be like, you give,

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Speaker 1: you give? You'd be like, I give! And that's it.

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Speaker 1: You just let him go and be like, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and you teleport out of there.

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Speaker 2: You see how easily that could happen?

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Speaker 1: Nazi? Unified field theory.

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Speaker 2: Alright, so... The Philadelphia experiment never happened like that, at least. What?

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Speaker 2: We'll go ahead and not give any credence to the

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theorists out there, although we'll probably get a couple

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Speaker 2: of people to email in.

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Speaker 1: Oh, man, this is... This is like a nucleus of

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. It ties in UFOs. Sure. Ties in theoretical physics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the U.S. government, of course.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Ginormous cover-up. It ties in all these different things,

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Speaker 1: and it's really, really interesting if you go read this stuff.

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Speaker 1: To me, it's more interesting than just UFO conspiracy theory

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Speaker 1: or just government cover-up conspiracy theory. It's like a clearinghouse

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Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories all tied up into one package on

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Speaker 1: this secret experiment that if you listen to the Navy's

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Speaker 1: official line, never took place. There never was a Philadelphia experiment.

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Speaker 1: There never was. It was also known as Project Rainbow.

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Speaker 1: There was never a Project Rainbow. It just didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing was made up out of whole cloth, apparently,

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Speaker 1: by a guy named Carlos M. Allende.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a couple of hinky details. We'll

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Speaker 2: go over why this thing has survived a little bit later,

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Speaker 2: but there are a few hinky details, not to make

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Speaker 2: it believable, But that just have fueled the fire over

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Speaker 2: the years.

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Speaker 1: And let's take a break right here, Chuck, because I'm

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Speaker 1: getting a little overexcited. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Just put this under your tongue. You'll be fine.

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Speaker 1: Okay. No stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: All right. Wake up, buddy.

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 2: We're back.

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Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

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Speaker 2: How much time has passed in your mind?

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Speaker 1: Millions of years.

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Speaker 2: No, it's only been about three hours. Oh, okay. Do

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Speaker 2: you feel rested?

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Speaker 1: I do feel very refreshed. Good.

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Speaker 2: Well, we can continue. So you teased a man named, well,

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Speaker 2: he had some different names. Carl M. Allen. Carl M.

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Speaker 1: Allen.

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Speaker 2: Or under his pseudonym, Carlos Miguel Allende.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He's like, hey, let me throw a D-E on the end.

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Speaker 2: I'll sound mysterious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, an O-S and a D-E.

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Speaker 2: So in 1956, I was going to get in the

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Speaker 2: Wayback Machine, but I don't think we should even bother

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Speaker 2: for this.

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Speaker 1: No, this actually proves there is no Wayback Machine.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So in 1956, in real time, Allende sent...

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Speaker 2: A letter, and he would go on to send about

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Speaker 2: 50 more letters to an author named Morris Jessup, who

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Speaker 2: wrote a book a year earlier called The Case for

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Speaker 2: the UFO.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which you can find on the podcast page for

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Speaker 1: this episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was an author. He's like a legit

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Speaker 2: dude that wrote a bunch of books. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if he's legit. I don't mean legit as in... Like

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Speaker 2: he proved any science behind UFOs.

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Speaker 1: Right, right.

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Speaker 2: But he authored books for real. Yes, right. He wasn't

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Speaker 2: just publishing manifestos online.

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Speaker 1: And he was a conspiratorially-minded investigator.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But if you read his writing, it was just nothing

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Speaker 1: but conjecture. Sure. Nothing. There was nothing in it but

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Speaker 1: conjecture presented as fact.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And he even says there are three basic facts. proven

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Speaker 1: facts about this. And then here's some more facts. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, no, these aren't facts at all. But it's

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Speaker 1: really fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't know what facts are.

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Speaker 1: Maybe so.

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Speaker 2: So he got these letters and in these letters, at

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Speaker 2: first there were some attacks on him from Alan saying,

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Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about, man. You're getting

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Speaker 2: this unified field theory all wrong. And I know because

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Speaker 2: Einstein spent several weeks with me teaching me this stuff himself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and not only that.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, Cuckoo pot writes crackpot.

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Speaker 1: Right. And he was saying, like, I can prove that

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Speaker 1: that unified field theory has been mastered by describing this

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Speaker 1: experiment that took place in Philadelphia in 1943 concerning one U.S.

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Speaker 1: destroyer called the USS Eldridge.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And he said, I know this because I was there, buddy.

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Speaker 2: I was on a ship in that harbor and there

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Speaker 2: were other ships in the harbor. That seems to be

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Speaker 2: the only part that's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is a place where ships were

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Speaker 1: being outfitted throughout the summer and fall. It was the war.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So he claimed that he was on one

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Speaker 2: of these ships. He said, I witnessed this in person.

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Speaker 2: I saw this green glow. I saw this thing disappear.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, he could see the field that was

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Speaker 1: created by this experiment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the green glow.

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Speaker 1: And he stuck his arm into it. He was that close.

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Speaker 2: Stuff of movies. right?

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Speaker 1: Stuff of 1980s B movies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he sends these letters and- He sends like

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Speaker 2: 50 of them. Yeah. And Jessup said, you know what?

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Speaker 2: Let me investigate this a little bit because I'm a

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Speaker 2: crackpot too. I get where you're coming from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So let me just check into this a little bit.

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Speaker 1: This is right up my alley.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you for these. Let me look into this

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Speaker 2: a little bit. And He basically gave up because the

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Speaker 2: dude could produce, he asked him for some evidence.

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Speaker 1: Or names.

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Speaker 2: Anything, and he had nothing.

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Speaker 1: He didn't. He just said, here's the story and it's fact.

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Speaker 1: And he goes, Carlos Allende, who by then I think

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Speaker 1: had dropped the pseudonym, right, to Carl Allen.

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Speaker 2: Who knows, he might have called himself Big Bird at

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Speaker 2: that point.

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Speaker 1: So he was, and he was a very disturbed man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm joking, but yeah, he had mental problems.

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Speaker 1: He did. But if you research him, And you research

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Speaker 1: even skeptics of the Philadelphia experiment. Like the stuff he

360
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Speaker 1: was coming up with was really interesting stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a good writer.

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Speaker 1: But he was a huge confabulator as well.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: So he's saying all this is fact. And he's saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the dates were. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the people's names or anything like that. But perhaps if

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Speaker 1: I were put under narco-hypnosis, I would remember all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you got any drugs? Yes. And about this time,

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Speaker 1: Jessup said, I'm done with this, right? He had actually

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Speaker 1: moved on because apparently the government had directly addressed UFO rumors.

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Speaker 1: And no, Jessup didn't do that. I'm sorry. Another guy

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Speaker 1: did who was interested in researching Allende.

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Speaker 2: But I'm sure Jessup was like, I got to get

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Speaker 2: back to my serious work investigating UFOs.

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Speaker 1: He did. Yeah. But then something truly bizarre happened. And

376
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Speaker 1: this did happen. He got a knock on his door,

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Speaker 1: and two researchers from the Office of Naval Research, who

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00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:12,180
Speaker 1: would have been carrying out experiments like this, said, hey,

379
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Speaker 1: have you ever heard of a guy named Carlos Allende?

380
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Speaker 1: And you probably could have picked M.K. Jessup off the floor.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine so. Because, I mean, yeah, he was like.

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Speaker 1: It's all true, man. Yeah, exactly. And he said, come in,

383
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Speaker 1: come in, please, have some tea, have some opiates.

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Speaker 2: It was 1957 at this point. And they said, you

385
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Speaker 2: know what, we got a package a year ago. And

386
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Speaker 2: it had a copy of your book, my friend, The UFOs.

387
00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:45,630
Speaker 2: The Case for UFOs. Yeah, it was annotated very heavily.

388
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Speaker 1: By three people.

389
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Speaker 2: Well, by three sets of ink and three types of handwriting,

390
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Speaker 2: which were all clearly from Carl Allen.

391
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Speaker 1: Well, they were to M.K. Jessup, who corresponded with Carl

392
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Speaker 1: Allen for... Well, over 50 letters, right?

393
00:18:01,210 --> 00:18:04,810
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, I'm not fooled. This guy, Jemi, J-E-M-I.

394
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Speaker 1: Who may have been an alien.

395
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,459
Speaker 2: It's Carl Allen and Mr. A and Mr. B are

396
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Speaker 2: both Carl Allen. They're all Carl Allen.

397
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Speaker 1: But regardless of whether they were all one dude, the

398
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Speaker 1: annotations had fascinated these two Navy researchers enough that they supposedly,

399
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Speaker 1: as far as the Office of Naval Research officially says,

400
00:18:25,670 --> 00:18:27,629
Speaker 1: They took it upon themselves and paid out of their

401
00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:30,190
Speaker 1: own pockets and I guess took vacation time to go

402
00:18:30,270 --> 00:18:32,330
Speaker 1: find MK Jessup.

403
00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:35,250
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't found, I saw a bunch of conflicting

404
00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:37,719
Speaker 2: reports on that, whether or not, and this is what

405
00:18:37,780 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorists will point to, that either it was official

406
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,780
Speaker 2: business or they did it on their own. Right. Either way,

407
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 2: they say that that means something. And I've heard it

408
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 2: explained away as it was just something on their list

409
00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:52,090
Speaker 2: that they eventually had to get to.

410
00:18:52,109 --> 00:18:55,699
Speaker 1: Yeah. That seems like a terrible explanation. I think this

411
00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:59,260
Speaker 1: adds like a real wrinkle to the story, whether purposefully

412
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,940
Speaker 1: or it's just something that can't be very easily explained away.

413
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it is. It was just these guys were really

414
00:19:05,619 --> 00:19:08,780
Speaker 1: interested in this. Maybe they were into UFO stuff or whatever.

415
00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:09,220
Speaker 2: Maybe.

416
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,900
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. The fact that those two guys showed

417
00:19:12,050 --> 00:19:16,090
Speaker 1: up gives this thing legs for miles. Sure. You know?

418
00:19:16,109 --> 00:19:16,510
Speaker 2: Yeah.

419
00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:19,370
Speaker 1: And it's just awesome that that happened because that has

420
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:20,930
Speaker 1: kept this thing alive in part.

421
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:23,929
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the box came to them marked Happy Easter,

422
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:27,580
Speaker 2: which I thought was kind of funny. And it had

423
00:19:27,619 --> 00:19:31,900
Speaker 2: weird punctuation and capitalizations, all the marks of a madman. Right.

424
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:36,420
Speaker 1: But again, like the stuff he was saying was, it

425
00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:40,310
Speaker 1: was curiosity arousing in these guys. And they actually took,

426
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,430
Speaker 1: and again, supposedly paid for out of their own pocket,

427
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:48,590
Speaker 1: the annotated version of the case for UFOs and published

428
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:54,479
Speaker 1: it with annotations. They had a contractor, a military contractor

429
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,689
Speaker 1: called Vero Technologies, I think, and had them publish it,

430
00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:00,790
Speaker 1: which is weird, especially if they were doing it out

431
00:20:00,810 --> 00:20:01,830
Speaker 1: of their own pocket, but.

432
00:20:02,490 --> 00:20:04,970
Speaker 2: There was only 127 copies. I imagine it didn't cost

433
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:05,300
Speaker 2: that much.

434
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: I saw 25 even, and they were like spiral bound.

435
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: So it wasn't even fancy.

436
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: I read a lot of this, and it's, you know,

437
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 2: it's really out there.

438
00:20:16,050 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

439
00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:16,790
Speaker 2: You know?

440
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:17,350
Speaker 1: Sure.

441
00:20:17,869 --> 00:20:21,130
Speaker 2: But I imagine if you're a UFO enthusiast, it might

442
00:20:21,170 --> 00:20:21,590
Speaker 2: interest you.

443
00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: I mean, if you read Morris Jessup's stuff, it's out there, too.

444
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,020
Speaker 2: Well, imagine reading that with the annotation from this other dude.

445
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, I get the impression

446
00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: that Carlos Allende stuff is even more out there.

447
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,179
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get it online. There's PDFs of it

448
00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:37,750
Speaker 2: if you want to.

449
00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: Oh, of the Vero one? Oh, yeah. But supposedly there's

450
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:44,260
Speaker 1: a lot of forged copies as well. Oh, really? In circulation, yeah.

451
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. This seemed real. Why would someone

452
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: take the time to forge a copy of the Crackpot Manifesto?

453
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,260
Speaker 1: That's a question we should all be asking ourselves.

454
00:20:56,180 --> 00:21:00,959
Speaker 2: So Jessup's story ends just a couple of years later.

455
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,810
Speaker 2: He was down on his luck, and he got injured

456
00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:07,649
Speaker 2: really badly in a car accident, had a bad breakup

457
00:21:07,690 --> 00:21:11,430
Speaker 2: with his wife, and he killed himself. He put a

458
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:15,930
Speaker 2: hose from his car exhaust into his window. And this

459
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:19,110
Speaker 2: is one of the other reasons that conspiracy theory, anytime

460
00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:22,890
Speaker 2: there's a suicide and there's the government involved, it's pretty

461
00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: easy to say, He didn't kill himself. The government killed him.

462
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: Right. It's made all the more suspicious, though, because supposedly

463
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:33,940
Speaker 1: that was the day that he was to meet a

464
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: friend who he had told, I've made a breakthrough in

465
00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:40,220
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia experiment case. Yeah. And then all of a

466
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: sudden he turns up dead of a suicide. Yeah. So,

467
00:21:43,859 --> 00:21:46,460
Speaker 1: I mean, that and the ONR guy showing up at

468
00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:49,250
Speaker 1: his door definitely has kept this thing alive.

469
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:53,070
Speaker 2: It has. Supposedly his friends came out and said no.

470
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:56,140
Speaker 2: He was deeply depressed, and he had talked of suicide

471
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: in the months before he committed suicide. But then, I'm

472
00:21:59,020 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 2: sure conspiracy theorists will say, they paid them off, man.

473
00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: Those people said, you can let my family go now, Navy.

474
00:22:05,660 --> 00:22:05,930
Speaker 2: Exactly.

475
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:07,370
Speaker 1: They did what you said.

476
00:22:08,109 --> 00:22:13,530
Speaker 2: And the Eldridge had a pretty, well, it didn't go

477
00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:16,090
Speaker 2: on to, like, great things. It was sold to Greece,

478
00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:21,030
Speaker 2: or transferred to Greece, renamed the HS Leon, and Used

479
00:22:21,109 --> 00:22:24,980
Speaker 2: in exercises and then sold for scrap metal in the 1990s. Yeah. So,

480
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,340
Speaker 2: no big deal with the boat, right?

481
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,060
Speaker 1: No bigs.

482
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,619
Speaker 2: So, we'll take another little break here, and we'll come

483
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,340
Speaker 2: back and we'll talk about what really happened in the

484
00:22:32,380 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 2: Philadelphia shipyard that day.

485
00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:58,419
Speaker 1: Stuck in ship, no. All right.

486
00:22:58,580 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: What really happened, Josh?

487
00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Nothing. That's supposedly what really happened. Apparently on that day

488
00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:09,900
Speaker 1: in the naval shipyard, I guess either July or October.

489
00:23:09,940 --> 00:23:12,060
Speaker 1: But July, I think, is the one that people typically,

490
00:23:12,660 --> 00:23:14,770
Speaker 1: if they just think it was a one-day thing rather

491
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:18,030
Speaker 1: than two separate experiments, it's usually July that they point to,

492
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:21,010
Speaker 1: which they did in this article, too. On that particular day,

493
00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:24,750
Speaker 1: the USS Eldridge wasn't even in Philadelphia.

494
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:26,490
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the part I don't understand.

495
00:23:26,650 --> 00:23:27,469
Speaker 1: It was in Brooklyn.

496
00:23:27,690 --> 00:23:27,870
Speaker 2: Yeah.

497
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,010
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. That revelation came out in 1999.

498
00:23:33,010 --> 00:23:34,890
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a minute. Prior to this,

499
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:39,110
Speaker 1: there is a researcher. He's an astrophysicist and ufologist named

500
00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:41,129
Speaker 1: Jacques F.

501
00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:41,770
Speaker 2: Vallée.

502
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: And he was actually the inspiration for the ufologist Frenchman

503
00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

504
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

505
00:23:49,710 --> 00:23:51,649
Speaker 1: And he was also like a venture capitalist. He's a

506
00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:56,050
Speaker 1: pretty sharp dude. He just had some unusual interests, right?

507
00:23:56,190 --> 00:23:56,390
Speaker 2: Yes.

508
00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: But one of the things that he dedicated himself to

509
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,780
Speaker 1: was disproving the Philadelphia Experiment, proving that it was a hoax.

510
00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: He was a skeptic, right?

511
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:05,380
Speaker 2: Yes.

512
00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:07,020
Speaker 1: In some manner, he was a skeptic.

513
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:07,420
Speaker 2: Yeah.

514
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: So he wrote a paper, and in the paper, he

515
00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:14,250
Speaker 1: invited people to reach out to him if they had

516
00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:19,149
Speaker 1: further information about the Philadelphia Experiment. And as a result, allegedly...

517
00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:24,100
Speaker 1: He was contacted in 1994 by a guy named Edward

518
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: Dugin or Dugin. Let's say Dugin. It's a little more

519
00:24:28,820 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: pleasant than Dugin.

520
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,420
Speaker 2: I bet his friend called him the dungeon.

521
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll bet.

522
00:24:32,460 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: You know?

523
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

524
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:34,369
Speaker 2: That's what I would have called him.

525
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:34,580
Speaker 1: Yeah.

526
00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:37,180
Speaker 2: So, yeah, he responded. The paper was called Anatomy of

527
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: a Hoax, colon, the Philadelphia Experiment 50 years later in

528
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,650
Speaker 2: the Journal of Scientific Exploration. And Dugin got in touch

529
00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:47,390
Speaker 2: and said, you know what? I was in the Navy

530
00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:50,730
Speaker 2: from 42 to 45. I was on that boat, and

531
00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:52,909
Speaker 2: I can explain what happened.

532
00:24:53,210 --> 00:24:53,370
Speaker 1: Yeah.

533
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:55,229
Speaker 2: Which is pretty exciting.

534
00:24:55,310 --> 00:24:58,330
Speaker 1: Well, he was on the Engstrom, which was there at

535
00:24:58,369 --> 00:24:58,970
Speaker 1: the same time.

536
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought he was on the actual boat.

537
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: No, he was an electrician on the Engstrom, but he

538
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,740
Speaker 1: said he was fully aware of all of the electrical

539
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: components on the Engstrom and on the Eldridge.

540
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,699
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they all party together.

541
00:25:09,859 --> 00:25:15,700
Speaker 1: Sure, exactly. That actually comes up later. So he was saying...

542
00:25:16,340 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: He basically had a pat and completely sensible and reasonable

543
00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:24,830
Speaker 1: answer for every single part of the Philadelphia Experiment. For example,

544
00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:29,350
Speaker 1: part of the Philadelphia Experiment legend is that a brawl

545
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: broke out in a bar following the experiment, and two

546
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: of the sailors on board the Eldridge suddenly disappeared. They vanished.

547
00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:37,900
Speaker 2: Yes.

548
00:25:38,619 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: Well, doogen, dudgeon. says, I was one of those guys.

549
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,270
Speaker 1: I actually faked my age on my enlistment paper. So

550
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:50,030
Speaker 1: I was underage and shouldn't have been in the bar.

551
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:54,790
Speaker 1: And the bartender took pity on me and another underage

552
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:57,010
Speaker 1: dude and shoot us out the back door and then

553
00:25:57,070 --> 00:25:59,500
Speaker 1: pretended that she'd never seen us.

554
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,420
Speaker 2: So they disappeared.

555
00:26:00,619 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: They disappeared, exactly.

556
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: Out the back door.

557
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: Another one, he says, well, he explains the whole thing, basically, right?

558
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: He says, There was no experiment like that, but they

559
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: were doing something that might have seemed freaky to the uninitiated,

560
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: and that was degaussing the ships.

561
00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:17,939
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the time, Germany, and I guess everyone else

562
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: really in the navies around the world, they had magnetic mines,

563
00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:28,369
Speaker 2: sea mines, which would find your boat and go, ooh,

564
00:26:28,450 --> 00:26:30,570
Speaker 2: that's metal, let me go stick on that thing and

565
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:30,969
Speaker 2: blow up.

566
00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:33,470
Speaker 1: Yeah, and torpedoes that were magnetic-seeking too.

567
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:35,669
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they thought, you know what, let's come up

568
00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:39,190
Speaker 2: with a way to make our ship hulls and our

569
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:43,930
Speaker 2: metal parts non-magnetic to these obstacles.

570
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: Right, which is an established project, I guess, or an established,

571
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:52,659
Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking for? Process.

572
00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: Sure.

573
00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: So I was close with projects.

574
00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a real thing.

575
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,700
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's called degaussing, and it basically either changes or

576
00:27:00,090 --> 00:27:04,930
Speaker 1: gets rid of, the magnetism of something that was formerly magnetic,

577
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:06,090
Speaker 1: like the ship's hull.

578
00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:09,450
Speaker 2: It does not make it invisible to radar or otherwise.

579
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:12,820
Speaker 1: But it probably looks pretty weird, right? So they wrapped

580
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: the ships in hundreds and hundreds of meters of cable

581
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,250
Speaker 1: and then ran a really high voltage electrical charge through it.

582
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,450
Speaker 1: And supposedly this would demagnetize the ships, which really came

583
00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:31,050
Speaker 1: in handy because at the time, just outside of America's

584
00:27:31,109 --> 00:27:33,970
Speaker 1: coastal waters was called the Graveyard of the Atlantic. Yeah.

585
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: Because German U-boats were running the show out there at

586
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,020
Speaker 1: this time.

587
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,139
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as we learned in our Did Nazis Invade Florida,

588
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: they sometimes were parked right off the coast.

589
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,750
Speaker 1: Exactly. So they were taking out our destroyers and our

590
00:27:46,990 --> 00:27:50,010
Speaker 1: cruisers and our battleships. So this was a big deal

591
00:27:50,109 --> 00:27:52,290
Speaker 1: to be able to do that kind of thing. Although,

592
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:57,369
Speaker 1: and it was classified stuff, It wasn't experimentation in anything

593
00:27:57,410 --> 00:28:00,330
Speaker 1: that hadn't been proven before. It was like, we're just

594
00:28:01,030 --> 00:28:02,590
Speaker 1: demagnetizing our battleships.

595
00:28:02,650 --> 00:28:04,630
Speaker 2: Yeah, they could have had a big sign up that said,

596
00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:08,510
Speaker 2: degaussing at work, stand back.

597
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:08,930
Speaker 1: Yeah.

598
00:28:09,109 --> 00:28:10,670
Speaker 2: It was no big super secret thing.

599
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:12,950
Speaker 1: Right. But if you're a Nazi, don't read this sign.

600
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:13,780
Speaker 2: Right.

601
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,700
Speaker 1: The other thing that Dudgeon addressed was the concept that

602
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:25,980
Speaker 1: the Eldridge disappeared from the Philadelphia shipyard. reappeared in Norfolk,

603
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: and then reappeared back in Philadelphia.

604
00:28:28,619 --> 00:28:31,700
Speaker 2: Well, that happened, but it just went there and then

605
00:28:31,740 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: came back.

606
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: Right, but it didn't happen in like 5 minutes or

607
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,900
Speaker 1: 10 minutes or 30 seconds. No. But, again, he points

608
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,500
Speaker 1: out like if you weren't really, if you were just

609
00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:45,380
Speaker 1: casually paying attention, you might have seen the Eldridge in

610
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:49,950
Speaker 1: Philadelphia that night and then noticed it was missing late

611
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:52,910
Speaker 1: at night and then noticed it was back In the morning.

612
00:28:53,050 --> 00:28:55,750
Speaker 2: Yeah, which would seem impossible because that was supposedly a

613
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:56,370
Speaker 2: two-day trip.

614
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:59,690
Speaker 1: Yeah, two days including there and back. Yeah. The round

615
00:28:59,730 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: trip was two days up the coast. But apparently the

616
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,780
Speaker 1: Navy had a canal that they used, I think the

617
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,020
Speaker 1: Delaware Chesapeake Canal, that only the military could use. And

618
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,060
Speaker 1: they could make that round trip in six hours.

619
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,820
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in other words, it's easily explainable that it

620
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,420
Speaker 2: just simply, I keep wanting to say sailed, but it's

621
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:19,980
Speaker 2: not sailing.

622
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: I think they still call it that.

623
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:21,739
Speaker 2: Do they?

624
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Set sail, yeah. Ship out.

625
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,740
Speaker 2: Yeah, it shipped out.

626
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: Took off.

627
00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:28,620
Speaker 2: Shipped back. Right. In a regular amount of time.

628
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:28,980
Speaker 1: Right.

629
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:30,850
Speaker 2: And it just became part of the lore.

630
00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:33,010
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean, you can even tack on a

631
00:29:33,050 --> 00:29:36,250
Speaker 1: few hours there. Apparently Norfolk was where they outfitted it

632
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:41,260
Speaker 1: with their explosives. And apparently they could load a battleship

633
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:42,130
Speaker 1: in four hours.

634
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:42,380
Speaker 2: Yeah.

635
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,140
Speaker 1: So even taking that into account, it's still 10 hours.

636
00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:47,580
Speaker 1: If it shipped out at 11 p.m., which is what

637
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,620
Speaker 1: Dujun says, right? Dujun?

638
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: I think he went with Dujun.

639
00:29:53,620 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. He says that it shipped out at 11. It'd

640
00:29:58,060 --> 00:30:01,100
Speaker 1: still be back by 9 a.m., Yeah. So, again, if

641
00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:05,860
Speaker 1: you're just casually paying attention, what seems pretty mysterious really

642
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,380
Speaker 1: took on legs over time. It's basically like a game

643
00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:11,380
Speaker 1: of telephone, like any conspiracy theory. Sure. Maybe there's a

644
00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:14,620
Speaker 1: kernel of truth that got exaggerated by some drunken sailors,

645
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:18,580
Speaker 1: and then, bam, it gets shrunk down to 10 seconds

646
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: through a teleportation experiment.

647
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,370
Speaker 2: Well, and these sailors, the drunken sailors, supposedly could have

648
00:30:23,380 --> 00:30:25,730
Speaker 2: been overheard saying things like, you know, they're going to

649
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:28,470
Speaker 2: make our ship disappear, they're going to make us invisible, when,

650
00:30:28,510 --> 00:30:31,140
Speaker 2: in fact, what they were saying is, they're going to

651
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: make it more or less invisible to these mines.

652
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:34,460
Speaker 1: Right.

653
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,780
Speaker 2: Got all twisted around. It wasn't literally invisible.

654
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:43,730
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so there were apparently tons of merchant seamen

655
00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:47,209
Speaker 1: around the area as well. Yes. So again, this would

656
00:30:47,230 --> 00:30:50,450
Speaker 1: have been classified stuff if there had been loose lips,

657
00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:51,670
Speaker 1: which sink ships.

658
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:52,110
Speaker 2: They do.

659
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: And somebody had said, like, we're going to make it invisible.

660
00:30:56,540 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: Like you said, they would have picked up on that.

661
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,500
Speaker 1: Maybe they were the ones who were just casually paying

662
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: attention to the Eldridge here or there, and it just

663
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:09,650
Speaker 1: seemed to disappear and reappear. And there's this guy named

664
00:31:10,510 --> 00:31:16,790
Speaker 1: Robert Gorman, and he, in a 1980 Fate magazine article,

665
00:31:17,870 --> 00:31:20,630
Speaker 1: wrote about tracking down Carlos Allende. He was from the

666
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:23,810
Speaker 1: same hometown as him. And it turned out that he

667
00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:26,310
Speaker 1: already knew the guy's father. He just didn't realize that

668
00:31:26,370 --> 00:31:29,230
Speaker 1: he was Carlos Allende's father or Carl Allen's father.

669
00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:30,470
Speaker 2: Your old man Allen's son?

670
00:31:30,690 --> 00:31:34,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. And he managed to interview the family

671
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:37,810
Speaker 1: and get a pretty good picture of the guy. But

672
00:31:37,870 --> 00:31:40,550
Speaker 1: one of the things that he found was Carl Allen's

673
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:44,430
Speaker 1: merchant semen papers. So it's entirely possible he was there

674
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: around the time. Or if he wasn't there at the time,

675
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: he may have known somebody who was there at the time.

676
00:31:52,020 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: I could totally see him have been there, and that's

677
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,550
Speaker 2: probably how he got the idea to cook it up.

678
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: Right, okay.

679
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: I believe all that.

680
00:31:58,090 --> 00:32:00,850
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, all of this lands squarely on the

681
00:32:00,890 --> 00:32:04,750
Speaker 1: desk of Carl Allen because no one, no one talked

682
00:32:04,790 --> 00:32:09,010
Speaker 1: about the Philadelphia experiment. It was never... Those words were

683
00:32:09,050 --> 00:32:14,770
Speaker 1: never put together until his first letter to Morris Jessup, right?

684
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:17,950
Speaker 1: So it appears to have been totally fabricated by him.

685
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:21,860
Speaker 2: Yeah, and... After the movie came out, people started coming

686
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:22,660
Speaker 2: out of the woodwork.

687
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:23,180
Speaker 1: This guy.

688
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,610
Speaker 2: Including a dude named Alfred Bialik.

689
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:28,130
Speaker 1: Have you been to his website?

690
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:33,630
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. He's something else. He made a video called

691
00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: The Philadelphia Experiment Part 1 Crossroads of History. And he

692
00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: claims that he was a physicist on board the Eldridge.

693
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: And he was a part of the team. And not

694
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,470
Speaker 2: only that, he says he time-traveled. in 1943 all the

695
00:32:48,510 --> 00:32:52,710
Speaker 2: way to 1983 during the experiment to tell his story.

696
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:57,790
Speaker 1: That sounds extremely close to the plot of the Philadelphia

697
00:32:57,810 --> 00:32:58,550
Speaker 1: Experiment movie.

698
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,150
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sure.

699
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Except it was a little different. In the movie, he

700
00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:08,860
Speaker 1: travels from 1943 to 1984. Ooh. We shouldn't mock this guy.

701
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating website. Yeah. But he puts himself squarely

702
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: at the... Center of the Philadelphia Experiment. And he also

703
00:33:18,890 --> 00:33:21,260
Speaker 1: says that he was part of the Montauk Project.

704
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:23,780
Speaker 2: Yeah, which they're sort of tied together somehow.

705
00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:24,340
Speaker 1: Yeah, well.

706
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,580
Speaker 2: We should do one on that at some point.

707
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,180
Speaker 1: Somehow.

708
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,060
Speaker 2: Since we're debunking things.

709
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: This guy wrote a book where he just basically made

710
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:31,980
Speaker 1: this stuff up out of whole cloth.

711
00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

712
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: He says that the book, whether you take it as

713
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: science fact or science fiction, you're in for a really

714
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,980
Speaker 1: great story, even though it's basically loaded with soft facts.

715
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: This is the author in the preface, right?

716
00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

717
00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:47,830
Speaker 1: But basically, it's this extension that like the Philadelphia experiment

718
00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:51,010
Speaker 1: was wildly successful. And from that, we learned all sorts

719
00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:53,970
Speaker 1: of things like getting in touch with extraterrestrials, being able

720
00:33:54,010 --> 00:33:58,610
Speaker 1: to teleport everywhere, just doing all sorts of really interesting things. Basically,

721
00:33:58,930 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: anything you can possibly think of that a conspiracy theorist

722
00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:06,700
Speaker 1: would enjoy is crammed into this book. And it's given

723
00:34:06,860 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: a bit of gravitas by associating it with the Philadelphia experiment.

724
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:16,330
Speaker 1: You know? In some quarters, man.

725
00:34:16,370 --> 00:34:16,970
Speaker 2: In some quarters.

726
00:34:17,010 --> 00:34:19,089
Speaker 1: That definitely gives some gravitas.

727
00:34:19,670 --> 00:34:23,030
Speaker 2: This green glow has been explained away by most people

728
00:34:23,230 --> 00:34:28,259
Speaker 2: as maybe an electrical storm or St. Elmo's fire. And

729
00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:30,500
Speaker 2: it was just, you know, maybe just another part of

730
00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:33,620
Speaker 2: this story that people took and ran with it. Or

731
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,700
Speaker 2: maybe it was nothing at all.

732
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,380
Speaker 1: Yes. It also could have been the Office of Naval

733
00:34:39,420 --> 00:34:42,420
Speaker 1: Research put out a fact sheet on what they understand

734
00:34:42,460 --> 00:34:46,610
Speaker 1: about the Philadelphia experiment. And they said it's possible another

735
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:50,339
Speaker 1: origin or the origin of that specifically was experiments with

736
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: the USS Timmerman later on after the war in the 50s. Yeah.

737
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,500
Speaker 1: Where they tried to use a small generator that was

738
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: higher power than the generator that was currently on board.

739
00:35:00,790 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: And it actually caused coronal discharge, a glow. Yeah. and

740
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,589
Speaker 1: they said that no one was injured, no one was

741
00:35:07,739 --> 00:35:11,530
Speaker 1: enmeshed into the ship. No. It was just a glow

742
00:35:11,590 --> 00:35:13,730
Speaker 1: was created, which is what you'd expect from a very

743
00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:15,049
Speaker 1: strong electrical field, right?

744
00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:15,529
Speaker 2: Yeah.

745
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:21,100
Speaker 1: So they think possibly that combined with the degaussing stuff

746
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: they were doing during World War II came together and

747
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,669
Speaker 1: helped this legend take off. But what they say also, though,

748
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:32,990
Speaker 1: And what was supported by this reunion of USS Eldridge

749
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:37,259
Speaker 1: sailors in 1999 is that even the guy who debunked

750
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: and discredited everything that Carlos Allende said, Dudgeon, he was

751
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,170
Speaker 1: full of it too, apparently. Because the USS Eldridge wasn't in...

752
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,900
Speaker 1: Philadelphia then. It was in Brooklyn.

753
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got together in Atlantic City, and I read

754
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,379
Speaker 2: an article on this meeting, and they had a good

755
00:35:55,420 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 2: laugh and said that one of them even has something

756
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: about it on his license plate, just so people will

757
00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 2: ask him about it. And a few of them said

758
00:36:02,820 --> 00:36:04,779
Speaker 2: they would pull people's legs and say, like, oh, no,

759
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: I disappeared, and my hand was caught in the ship.

760
00:36:07,140 --> 00:36:09,569
Speaker 2: And then they would say, no, none of that happened.

761
00:36:10,110 --> 00:36:12,219
Speaker 2: But they said that it was in Brooklyn, and the

762
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,310
Speaker 2: ship's log confirms that. So apparently it wasn't even in

763
00:36:17,350 --> 00:36:18,690
Speaker 2: that shipyard that day at all.

764
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:19,420
Speaker 1: Right.

765
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: So that's the only part where I'm like, oh, wait

766
00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: a minute. How could they completely invent that it was

767
00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: even in the shipyard? Why wouldn't they just use a

768
00:36:28,580 --> 00:36:29,299
Speaker 2: ship that was there?

769
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:32,190
Speaker 1: Because this guy.

770
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,140
Speaker 2: It would give it a little more credence if there

771
00:36:34,219 --> 00:36:35,259
Speaker 2: was at least a ship there.

772
00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:39,850
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. Like, Carl Allen, he said

773
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:41,350
Speaker 1: all this. He was the one who just came up

774
00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:42,850
Speaker 1: with it from the beginning.

775
00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:45,469
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. It just seems a little

776
00:36:45,489 --> 00:36:48,770
Speaker 2: weird that he... didn't care at all about making it

777
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:51,109
Speaker 2: believable by picking a boat that was actually there.

778
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:53,049
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying. He may have been there

779
00:36:53,070 --> 00:36:55,110
Speaker 1: at the time. He may have known that the Eldridge

780
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:57,529
Speaker 1: was there and just fudged the date because he couldn't

781
00:36:57,570 --> 00:37:00,589
Speaker 1: remember because this is like 12 years later, 12 or

782
00:37:00,590 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: 13 years after the fact. You know what I mean?

783
00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: Bad memory.

784
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: Right. So maybe he just got the date wrong and

785
00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: the thing really did happen and then the ONR would

786
00:37:08,940 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: be like, oh, that experience. Yeah, oh yeah, we teleported

787
00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: a battleship. You just got the date wrong.

788
00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:17,109
Speaker 2: So, we've mentioned quite a few things here that why

789
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:21,610
Speaker 2: this thing has lived on through the years. Um, there, uh, that, uh,

790
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:25,049
Speaker 2: Jacques Vallee theorizes that, you know, anytime you have like

791
00:37:25,090 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: a movie made about it or any kind of imagery,

792
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,620
Speaker 2: whether it's a photo of the Loch Ness monster to, uh,

793
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,460
Speaker 2: the photo of the Montauk monster, people are going to

794
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: have something physical to point to and say, look, they

795
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 2: made this movie. And that's when people started coming out

796
00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: of the woodwork was after the movie saying, Oh yeah,

797
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,810
Speaker 2: I was there. I remember that now. Michael Paré just

798
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:47,330
Speaker 2: reminded me of this thing that happened.

799
00:37:47,590 --> 00:37:50,109
Speaker 1: He also, my favorite thing on his website is that

800
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:54,460
Speaker 1: he met the person that he later realized was the

801
00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: actor Mark Hamill in Hawaii in 1956. But Mark Hamill

802
00:37:59,180 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: would have been five at the time.

803
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,620
Speaker 2: Well, did he say he was a nice little kid?

804
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't think he was a kid.

805
00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:11,180
Speaker 2: He said he's a full-grown adult. Interesting. What else? The

806
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: fact that it's the federal government, of course, and the

807
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,180
Speaker 2: And the military, you know, people are going to run

808
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 2: with that stuff.

809
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,410
Speaker 1: Which, I mean, that's the military's fault.

810
00:38:19,770 --> 00:38:21,910
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, sure, they did secret experiments, still do.

811
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:26,450
Speaker 1: Tons of them. Back in 1993, some stuff got declassified,

812
00:38:26,510 --> 00:38:29,210
Speaker 1: and it really opened people's eyes to the fact that

813
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:35,670
Speaker 1: the government and the military experimented on uninformed and unwitting subjects,

814
00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:41,290
Speaker 1: not just in its ranks, but also in the general public. So, yeah,

815
00:38:41,330 --> 00:38:45,460
Speaker 1: it's totally... The idea that the military would do this

816
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,460
Speaker 1: with its own people on board.

817
00:38:48,580 --> 00:38:49,420
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's believable.

818
00:38:49,540 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: Probably the most believable part of the whole thing.

819
00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:57,540
Speaker 2: Agreed. And also just throw Albert Einstein in there, throw

820
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: in secret scientific theories that haven't been proven. And it's

821
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,090
Speaker 2: just ripe for the picking when it comes to conspiracies.

822
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:06,450
Speaker 1: Yeah.

823
00:39:06,989 --> 00:39:10,390
Speaker 2: And the suicide, of course. Like we mentioned earlier.

824
00:39:10,469 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: That definitely doesn't help.

825
00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: It did not help the case any. But this is

826
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: one that I had a hard time finding people that

827
00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: still believe this.

828
00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:22,509
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think a lot of people aren't aware of

829
00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:22,930
Speaker 1: it even.

830
00:39:23,710 --> 00:39:24,310
Speaker 2: Except for the movie.

831
00:39:24,610 --> 00:39:26,589
Speaker 1: You know what else helped it get legs? There was

832
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: a book in 1979. And it was called. The Philadelphia Experiment, colon,

833
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:38,780
Speaker 1: Project Invisibility, and it was reprinted in excerpts in papers

834
00:39:38,820 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: around the country as fact or nonfiction in 1979.

835
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,020
Speaker 2: Does not help.

836
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,700
Speaker 1: Doesn't help things, you know?

837
00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:53,270
Speaker 2: I personally... With all conspiracy theories, I enjoy reading this stuff.

838
00:39:53,310 --> 00:39:56,930
Speaker 2: I think it's fun and funny and interesting. There aren't

839
00:39:57,030 --> 00:40:00,609
Speaker 2: any that I really believe in. But I do think

840
00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:02,510
Speaker 2: it's funny when people get all up on their hackles

841
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:05,430
Speaker 2: and write in that, you know, you guys are making

842
00:40:05,489 --> 00:40:07,750
Speaker 2: fun of this stuff and it's, you know, you don't know.

843
00:40:07,770 --> 00:40:10,750
Speaker 1: It could be real. Well, that's the other thing, man.

844
00:40:10,810 --> 00:40:14,509
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought this up because just being like, no,

845
00:40:14,530 --> 00:40:17,779
Speaker 1: this is not possible. That's stupid. Stop thinking stuff like that.

846
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: It's like, no, this is... At the very least, people

847
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,190
Speaker 1: using their imaginations and exercising it in ways that I

848
00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:27,670
Speaker 1: don't typically do. Sure. And so it is nice to

849
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:30,009
Speaker 1: come kind of visit it and check it out and

850
00:40:30,090 --> 00:40:30,950
Speaker 1: read it, you know?

851
00:40:31,110 --> 00:40:33,129
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I claim to have seen a ghost, so

852
00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:33,589
Speaker 2: what do I know?

853
00:40:33,770 --> 00:40:38,260
Speaker 1: Exactly. Although I have to say probably the best excuse

854
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:40,620
Speaker 1: against this, there are two things that just say just

855
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:43,780
Speaker 1: on its face this isn't right. One, this happened 70

856
00:40:43,780 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: years ago, and if the military successfully transported a battleship,

857
00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:49,740
Speaker 1: We would know about teleportation by now.

858
00:40:49,890 --> 00:40:51,589
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'd be doing it all over the place.

859
00:40:51,610 --> 00:40:55,530
Speaker 1: Exactly. The second thing was a quote from Robert Gorman,

860
00:40:55,550 --> 00:40:58,580
Speaker 1: the guy who tracked down Carl Allen, in that 1980

861
00:40:58,580 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 1: Fate magazine article. He wrote, If we are to believe

862
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: Carl Allen, our naval hierarchy abandoned sanity and historical precedent

863
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,700
Speaker 1: by conducting an experiment of enormous importance in broad daylight

864
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:14,149
Speaker 1: using a badly needed destroyer escort vessel. Yeah. I think

865
00:41:14,170 --> 00:41:17,339
Speaker 1: that kind of sums it up nicely. Agreed. But go

866
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: forth and read about the Philadelphia Experiment because it is

867
00:41:21,140 --> 00:41:21,859
Speaker 1: interesting stuff.

868
00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:22,700
Speaker 2: Watch the movie.

869
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:23,859
Speaker 1: Meh.

870
00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: Why not? Is it on Netflix?

871
00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: No, it's on YouTube.

872
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 2: I thought you watched it on YouTube.

873
00:41:30,860 --> 00:41:31,070
Speaker 1: Yeah.

874
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:34,709
Speaker 2: I can't believe you made it through it. I did.

875
00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:37,270
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. I mean, I was working, too. I

876
00:41:37,390 --> 00:41:39,370
Speaker 1: had two windows open. Okay.

877
00:41:39,469 --> 00:41:39,870
Speaker 2: There you go.

878
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:41,870
Speaker 1: But it was fine.

879
00:41:42,650 --> 00:41:42,830
Speaker 2: Yeah.

880
00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:43,549
Speaker 1: It was fine.

881
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:47,490
Speaker 2: It's as believable as Tron. That's Josh's review.

882
00:41:48,690 --> 00:41:50,430
Speaker 1: Let's see. If you want to know more about the

883
00:41:50,469 --> 00:41:52,529
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Experiment, you don't have anything else, right?

884
00:41:52,810 --> 00:41:53,089
Speaker 2: No, sir.

885
00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:57,430
Speaker 1: You can type those words in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.

886
00:41:57,969 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: And since Chuck said Tron, it's time for Listener Mail.

887
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to call this email from an up-and-coming podcaster

888
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:09,300
Speaker 2: in Georgia Bulldog.

889
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: Nice. Hey, guys.

890
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,689
Speaker 2: My name is Bailey. I'm a junior mass media arts

891
00:42:13,770 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: and theater student. at good old UGA. Go Dawgs. Woof woof.

892
00:42:18,739 --> 00:42:21,180
Speaker 2: My professional identity aside, I'm also a long-time listener and

893
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,650
Speaker 2: lover of you guys. I listened to my first episode

894
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:26,430
Speaker 2: on the bus home from 7th grade.

895
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:29,170
Speaker 1: That's so.

896
00:42:30,570 --> 00:42:30,870
Speaker 1: Wow.

897
00:42:30,890 --> 00:42:33,589
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was the episode on brainwashing. So

898
00:42:33,610 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: she's in college now. I mainly listen to y'all as

899
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,940
Speaker 2: I'm working on my on-campus job, bus driving. Did you

900
00:42:39,980 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: ever take the buses in Athens? The student buses?

901
00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:47,009
Speaker 1: I was so crippled with social anxiety that if I

902
00:42:47,050 --> 00:42:49,070
Speaker 1: couldn't find a parking space, I would just skip class

903
00:42:49,090 --> 00:42:51,430
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to get on the bus. You

904
00:42:51,450 --> 00:42:53,219
Speaker 1: had social anxiety? Really?

905
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,620
Speaker 2: Like, didn't want to get to know anyone?

906
00:42:56,580 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: I just couldn't bear being around peers at that age.

907
00:42:59,640 --> 00:42:59,859
Speaker 2: Really?

908
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:00,140
Speaker 1: Yeah.

909
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,020
Speaker 2: Interesting. The buses were always a little scary because it

910
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,370
Speaker 2: was like, here's a 40-foot long bus. Full of students,

911
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:09,930
Speaker 2: and it's driven by a 19-year-old.

912
00:43:09,950 --> 00:43:12,589
Speaker 1: Driven by a student. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's scary for

913
00:43:12,610 --> 00:43:14,730
Speaker 1: me for different reasons, but I can imagine it was

914
00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:15,710
Speaker 1: scary for that reason, too.

915
00:43:15,730 --> 00:43:21,169
Speaker 2: Yeah, I took him a few times. I mainly walked. Okay,

916
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:23,049
Speaker 2: where was I? Bus driving. So my passengers have the

917
00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:24,859
Speaker 2: honor of listening to you as well. Oh, I guess

918
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:25,609
Speaker 2: she plays it out loud.

919
00:43:26,219 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: That's nice. That is nice. That's the party bus right there.

920
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,820
Speaker 2: I guess so. The other day I was driving, I

921
00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: realized it's my destiny to produce and host a podcast

922
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,170
Speaker 2: on campus. We don't really have anything like that, so

923
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:39,129
Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. My idea is to have me

924
00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:42,549
Speaker 2: and another host be constants on the show and every

925
00:43:42,590 --> 00:43:46,580
Speaker 2: week bring in a different UGA professor or Athens professional

926
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: or general awesome person to talk about the one thing

927
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: in their field that fascinates them the most for about

928
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,490
Speaker 2: 30 minutes. It would include informal conversation between the three

929
00:43:56,530 --> 00:44:01,770
Speaker 2: of us about a topic highly inspired by y'all's witty banter. Nice. Anyway,

930
00:44:01,810 --> 00:44:03,870
Speaker 2: because you guys are my muses, I would want to...

931
00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: Wanted to ask if you had any advice for a

932
00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: baby bulldog podcaster. As an MMA major, I feel like

933
00:44:11,060 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: I have the basic knowledge and resources for the technical side,

934
00:44:14,020 --> 00:44:15,620
Speaker 2: but as far as what makes a good episode, I'm

935
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,219
Speaker 2: feeling pretty shaky. What is your environment like? How much

936
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:21,420
Speaker 2: do you prepare for the actual script? Do you have

937
00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:24,819
Speaker 2: a specific formula for every episode? I'm fascinated. And that

938
00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:29,660
Speaker 2: is Bailey Johnson. You got any advice?

939
00:44:31,290 --> 00:44:33,370
Speaker 1: I will give you the same advice I would give

940
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: anybody starting out in podcasting, Bailey. Get good mics. It's

941
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: worth the expenditure.

942
00:44:39,860 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 2: Make it sound good. They probably have them on campus,

943
00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: I'm imagining.

944
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you can finagle your way

945
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: into a studio with good mics.

946
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:47,690
Speaker 2: Yeah, do it.

947
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, do whatever you need to do to get that done.

948
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,090
Speaker 1: And then release on a reliable schedule. Those are the

949
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:58,330
Speaker 1: two keys to begin with. I mean, like, as long

950
00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 1: as you're releasing on a reliable schedule... People will come

951
00:45:02,410 --> 00:45:03,830
Speaker 1: to appreciate.

952
00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:06,330
Speaker 2: What you're doing. Yeah, and my advice as far as

953
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:09,110
Speaker 2: scripting goes is, you know, we've said this a billion

954
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:11,989
Speaker 2: times on different interviews, but we don't script stuff out

955
00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:13,690
Speaker 2: and we don't go over stuff with each other. We

956
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:15,989
Speaker 2: just do our own research and try and have as

957
00:45:16,070 --> 00:45:19,569
Speaker 2: natural a conversation as possible, which I think has helped

958
00:45:19,630 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 2: our show out. That's not to say that you need

959
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:27,580
Speaker 2: to do that, but I think being relatable and conversational

960
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,190
Speaker 2: helps rather than feeling like you're being read a script.

961
00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:34,410
Speaker 2: I don't know a lot of people that would be

962
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:36,570
Speaker 2: as into that. So my advice would be try to

963
00:45:36,590 --> 00:45:40,250
Speaker 2: make it conversational. You know, maybe go over it with

964
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:42,670
Speaker 2: whoever your co-host is, some at first.

965
00:45:43,110 --> 00:45:44,330
Speaker 1: She's a theater major, right?

966
00:45:44,730 --> 00:45:46,330
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should be pretty good at this stuff already.

967
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm sure she's good at ad-libbing. She probably

968
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:51,500
Speaker 1: finds comfort in the idea of a script. I don't

969
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: think there's anything wrong with starting out trying that, but

970
00:45:53,580 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: if it doesn't feel right or you're not getting good

971
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,649
Speaker 1: feedback about it, then Try something else.

972
00:45:58,830 --> 00:46:01,989
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I would say maybe try, like, instead

973
00:46:02,010 --> 00:46:05,350
Speaker 2: of a script, try, like, an outline that you share

974
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:05,910
Speaker 2: with each other.

975
00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:07,050
Speaker 1: The poor man's script.

976
00:46:07,210 --> 00:46:09,489
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've got a little roadmap ahead of you,

977
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:12,390
Speaker 2: and we kind of just, we've been doing this for

978
00:46:12,430 --> 00:46:13,790
Speaker 2: so long, we don't need that.

979
00:46:14,070 --> 00:46:15,490
Speaker 1: We don't need an outline.

980
00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: But we have our own roadmap that we share via

981
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: our brainwaves.

982
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,700
Speaker 1: Yes. Roadmap to the White House.

983
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: It's just not written down.

984
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,270
Speaker 1: 2016. So those are....

985
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:29,850
Speaker 2: Our points of advice. We don't have a specific formula.

986
00:46:30,310 --> 00:46:33,370
Speaker 2: We just try to talk about things that we find interesting.

987
00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:34,710
Speaker 1: I think that's a key too, man.

988
00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, be into what your own topic is because that'll

989
00:46:37,390 --> 00:46:38,090
Speaker 2: show for sure.

990
00:46:38,219 --> 00:46:42,460
Speaker 1: Yeah. Although we've also found that just about everything is

991
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:45,540
Speaker 1: interesting if you dig hard enough. Everything has a story.

992
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: So if something's really boring you, maybe abandon it, but

993
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: you can also try digging harder.

994
00:46:51,940 --> 00:46:54,660
Speaker 2: Agreed. So good luck, Bailey. Send us a link when

995
00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:58,380
Speaker 2: that's up and we'll plug it for you And.

996
00:46:58,180 --> 00:47:00,779
Speaker 1: Since you're doing an interview show, your goal should be

997
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,740
Speaker 1: with each interview to make that person cry.

998
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: You know what, Bailey? I'll even be on your show

999
00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 2: if you want.

1000
00:47:07,060 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: Whoa. Ooh.

1001
00:47:09,340 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: Nice joke. Yeah, I'll do that. If you get it

1002
00:47:12,060 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: up and running and you need somebody, I'd be happy

1003
00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:14,900
Speaker 2: to sit in.

1004
00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:15,899
Speaker 1: That is so nice.

1005
00:47:16,219 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: Why not?

1006
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:18,660
Speaker 1: Why not? I will, too, if you want.

1007
00:47:18,860 --> 00:47:21,660
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'll go to Athens. Uh, yeah.

1008
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:24,469
Speaker 2: Not that I don't like to, but it might just

1009
00:47:24,510 --> 00:47:25,510
Speaker 2: be easier to do it on the phone.

1010
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:28,589
Speaker 1: Okay. We'll see. Bailey, he's laid it out there for you.

1011
00:47:28,610 --> 00:47:29,410
Speaker 1: Get in touch.

1012
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:33,219
Speaker 2: All right, Bailey. Good luck. Class of 17. That's crazy.

1013
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: Yep. Who started listening in seventh grade.

1014
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:37,540
Speaker 2: Goodness me.

1015
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,190
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with Chuck or I,

1016
00:47:40,940 --> 00:47:42,629
Speaker 1: Chuck or me. Yeah, Chuck or me.

1017
00:47:42,730 --> 00:47:43,370
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1018
00:47:43,450 --> 00:47:47,230
Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at SYSK Podcast. You can

1019
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:50,230
Speaker 1: join us on Facebook.com slash stuff you should know. You

1020
00:47:50,250 --> 00:47:53,650
Speaker 1: can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. And

1021
00:47:53,710 --> 00:47:55,420
Speaker 1: as always, join us at our home on the web.

1022
00:47:55,989 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: stuff you should know.com. For more on this and thousands

1023
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com.