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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We have a great show for everyone today. What do

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Speaker 2: we have, Crystal, Indeed we do.

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Speaker 1: We've got, of course, the very latest for you out

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Speaker 1: of the Middle East. Hard to believe, but it is

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Speaker 1: one month ago today that the war on Gaza officially began,

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Speaker 1: So we've got a little bit of a look back

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Speaker 1: and also first indications from NETANYAHUO directly as to what

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Speaker 1: the future of Gaza may look like, so we'll bring

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Speaker 1: you all of that. We also have a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a focus on the journalists who have been targeted

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Speaker 1: in this war and the silence from a media that

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Speaker 1: used to care about pretend it please to care about

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Speaker 1: such things, So I'll get into all of that. We

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Speaker 1: also had testimony from Trump in his civil fraud trial.

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Speaker 1: Break that down for you. Apparently it's pretty wild in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. I guess that's not really unexpected when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the former president. We also have Dems who

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Speaker 1: are really freaking out about that recent New York Times

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Speaker 1: poll that we brought you yesterday showing Biden losing to

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Speaker 1: Trump in nearly every swing state that they surveyed, and

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Speaker 1: new calls for him to step Aside from perhaps some

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Speaker 1: surprising places, we also have a major change of tune

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Speaker 1: from Jim Kramer over on CNBC with regard to the

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Speaker 1: United Autoworkers and also guys in his election day. It's

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Speaker 1: the election day in Virginia, in Kentucky, and Mississippi. I

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Speaker 1: think there are some thirty seven states that have something

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Speaker 1: on the ballot today. So we're going to give you

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a preview of some of the

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Speaker 1: top things to watch for. Of course, Counterpoints will have

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Speaker 1: full coverage of the results tomorrow, but happy to have

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Speaker 1: j Miles Coleman with us this morning to break all

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Speaker 1: of that down. Forest Let's go ahead and jump into

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Speaker 1: the latest out of the Middle East. Put this first

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Speaker 1: element up on the screen. This is something that we

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Speaker 1: are watching very very carefully as we worry about the

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Speaker 1: risks of this conflict widening into a broader war directly

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Speaker 1: involving US. This is via Politico attacks on US troops

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East spike amid military build up. The

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Speaker 1: US publicized the deployment of warships and a submarine that

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Speaker 1: were sent into the region over the weekend.

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Speaker 4: Let me give you the details here.

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Speaker 1: US troops station in Irock and Syria have been attacked

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Speaker 1: by rockets and drones thirty eight times since October seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: That's according to a Pentagon spokesperson. That is an increase

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Speaker 1: from thirty one on Friday afternoons. Today. They're considering that

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Speaker 1: an escalation. Forty six service members at this point in

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Speaker 1: total have now self reported injuries from the attacks, which

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Speaker 1: he called harassing. All of the forty six service members

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Speaker 1: who did sustain those injuries were hurt during earlier attacks

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Speaker 1: prior to October six. The injuries were sustained primarily in

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Speaker 1: attacks on Alasade in Iraq and Al Tomp Garrison in

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Speaker 1: Syria on October seventeenth and eighteenth. One additional service member

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Speaker 1: was wounded in an incident in a rock on October

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Speaker 1: twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the headline news to me was that the

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Speaker 2: Sunday was actually the most violent day five rocket in

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Speaker 2: one way drone attacks near Alasad Air Base in Iraq,

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Speaker 2: two locations in Syria.

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Speaker 3: That was from the DoD.

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Speaker 2: What's even worse, Krystal is that all of this is

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Speaker 2: being leaked behind the scenes. The official number was hid

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Speaker 2: from the American people of twenty one US service members,

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Speaker 2: it now appears to be at least forty six US

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Speaker 2: service members who have sustained injuries were hurt during these attacks.

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Speaker 2: Some of them experienced traumatic brain injuries. Many of them

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Speaker 2: are now in Germany actually seeking further treatment. So, look,

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Speaker 2: this was not just like some something that happened far

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Speaker 2: away or you know, even away from the service members

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Speaker 2: that they happened to be completely safe, like obviously they

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Speaker 2: were either caught off guard or they were attacked and

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Speaker 2: they suffered some sort of injury, and the extent to

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Speaker 2: these injuries are being totally hid from. The Sunday attacks

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Speaker 2: are very significant because they came on the exact same

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Speaker 2: time and Secretary Blincoln was actually present on Iraqi soil.

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Speaker 2: So when you consider that and the amount of now

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Speaker 2: visits that the United States and ministers and other officials

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Speaker 2: have been present there, the attacks begin to ramp up

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Speaker 2: as a signal to us, really, they're like, hey, we

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Speaker 2: know who are you supporting. We also want you to

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Speaker 2: know that you are not going to be go away unscathed.

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Speaker 2: Not to what extent, obviously, it's unclear. Yesterday we brought

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Speaker 2: everybody the news, but all those significant military assets, the

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Speaker 2: Ohio class submarine that is present. Now we have seventeen

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Speaker 2: thousand now US service members who have been redirected to

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Speaker 2: the Middle East since the beginning of October seventh. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you think about that in a single month, to

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Speaker 2: mobilize seventeen thousand US service members, multiple marine Expeditionary Force,

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Speaker 2: two carrier strike groups, and all the attendant firepower on

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Speaker 2: top of the existing military assets. It's only one month

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Speaker 2: ago that the terrorist attack on on Israel and here

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Speaker 2: we are sitting that much later. It just goes to

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Speaker 2: show you how all the pieces are our place for

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Speaker 2: broader escalation if needed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, to put it in layman's terms, given

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Speaker 1: the amount of military assets that we have rushed to

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Speaker 1: the region, I mean, it certainly looks like we are

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Speaker 1: preparing for World War three, or at least to be

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Speaker 1: ready in case that is what breaks out. And let's

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Speaker 1: also be really clear in layman terms, the longer that

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Speaker 1: bombs stamped made in America are being dropped on Gaza,

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Speaker 1: the more risk to our service members and the more

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Speaker 1: risk of this widening into a broader war. So when

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Speaker 1: we're covering these escalations and attacks on service members, the

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Speaker 1: rushing military assets into the region, this increase intention these

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Speaker 1: are the concerns that we have about how this could

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Speaker 1: ignite into a broader and incredibly serious conflict for US directly,

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Speaker 1: as if it's not already serious enough. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: and another indication of how concerned Washington is about exactly

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Speaker 1: this possibility. Put this up on the screen. The CIA

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Speaker 1: director is visiting Israel and the Middle East amid Israel

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Speaker 1: Hamas war. This is per The New York Times.

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Speaker 4: William J.

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Speaker 1: Burns, the CIA director, arrived in Israel on Sunday for

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Speaker 1: discussions with leaders and intelligence officials, the first stop in

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Speaker 1: a multi country trip in the region. They go on

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Speaker 1: to say that he has extensive experience in the region,

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Speaker 1: visited as key intelligence leaders in Israel have been heavily

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Speaker 1: criticized for failing to detect the attack and.

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Speaker 4: The threat from Hamas.

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Speaker 1: More broadly, they also point out that he has actually

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Speaker 1: very close personal relationship with King Abdullah of Jordan. He

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Speaker 1: was the ambassador to Jordan when King Hossein died and

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Speaker 1: Abdullah ascended to the throne. And this comes saga, of course,

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Speaker 1: as we covered, we had Blinkeln going back to Israel

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Speaker 1: again and going back to meet with his counterparts in

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Speaker 1: both Jordan and Egypt and basically being rebuked at every turn,

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Speaker 1: and you know, not surprising when they have told Israel,

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Speaker 1: we give you the green light, no red lines, We're

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Speaker 1: with you one hundred percent. And then behind the scenes, hey,

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Speaker 1: pretty please, could you bomble little bit nicer, Could you

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of a humanitarian pause so we

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Speaker 1: can at least save some face for ourselves or save

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Speaker 1: some space and buy some time for you.

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Speaker 4: They said no.

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Speaker 1: Then goes on and meets with his counterparts in Egypt

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Speaker 1: and in Jordan, and they also said, listen, the real

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Speaker 1: call here is for a ceasefire. This humanitarian pause thing

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Speaker 1: that you're asking for is total nonsense. So again rebuked

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Speaker 1: at every turn, and now we're sending another high level

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Speaker 1: official into the region to see if they can have

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Speaker 1: any more you know, I guess quote unquote success from

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Speaker 1: their perspective.

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Speaker 2: Well, the CIA director Burns actually has a lot of

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Speaker 2: experience in the Middle East. Apparently he actually was the

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Speaker 2: ambassador to Jordan whenever King Hussein died and the current

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Speaker 2: king ascended to the throne. So he's got a very

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Speaker 2: close relationship with King Abdullah, and he's going to try

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Speaker 2: and broker at least some sort or reignite, you know,

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Speaker 2: talks and the rebuke really that the president was given

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Speaker 2: whenever his summit was canceled with all the Middle Eastern leaders.

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Speaker 3: Also, CIA has long.

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Speaker 2: Connections I guess you could say that with the Egyptians

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Speaker 2: and with them a lot of the other people who

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Speaker 2: are in the Middle East, especially the despotic regimes, and

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Speaker 2: they're going to use and try and leverage those connections.

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Speaker 2: Because William Burns has spent so much time in the region,

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Speaker 2: he knows a lot of these leaders personally, and of

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Speaker 2: course he's got the full force of the US government

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Speaker 2: behind him. So this is probably more of a diplomatic

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Speaker 2: trip than it is anything else. You know, Burns in particular,

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Speaker 2: because of his own diplomatic experience. He did a lot

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Speaker 2: of quasi diplomatic trips whenever it came to go into Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: whenever it came to negotiating in some cases with high

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Speaker 2: level Russians. That was some of the contact that was

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Speaker 2: made even after the mostly breaking off of relations after

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Speaker 2: what happened during the invasion. So this, I think is

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Speaker 2: because of the failure of the Biden diplomacy and the

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Speaker 2: Blinken diplomacy. They're sending somebody who's got a little bit

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Speaker 2: more credibility in the Middle East to actually go and

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Speaker 2: have face to face meetings. So this is far more

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Speaker 2: of a sign of the failure of diplomacy, at least

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Speaker 2: so far, than it is anything else, although who knows.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the CIA director apparently also wanting to share

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Speaker 2: intel with the Israelis about where American hostages are held

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Speaker 2: or you know, we don't know the z act number,

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Speaker 2: what is.

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Speaker 3: It, less than a dozen.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the official that are currently being held,

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Speaker 2: so some American ISR. I saw a video of the

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Speaker 2: pathways of US drones and air assets that are surrounding

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Speaker 2: Gaza doing lots of loops. So there's a significant amount

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Speaker 2: of US air presence over the Gaza Strip that is

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Speaker 2: not necessarily being reported about, but we will get to

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Speaker 2: that in a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and of.

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Speaker 1: Course you know those hostages, their lives are also at

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Speaker 1: risk in this Israeli bombing campaign, which is something that

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Speaker 1: the hostage families in Israel have been very concerned about

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Speaker 1: and really been pressuring the Nanyahu government over. Which a

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Speaker 1: great transition into what we know about what's happening on

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Speaker 1: the ground in Gaza, which is limited, and we'll get

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Speaker 1: into the challenges of quote unquote journalism in this situation

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Speaker 1: when you have journalisms journalists both targeted and killed, and

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Speaker 1: you also have very few journalists allowed in, and those

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Speaker 1: who are allowed in have to preview for the IDF

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Speaker 1: every single piece of reporting that they're going to take

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Speaker 1: to air. So really challenge to know exactly what's going

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Speaker 1: on on the ground here. But this is what we

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Speaker 1: can tell you. Put this up on the screen. It

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Speaker 1: looks like Israeli troops tightening their positions around Gaza City.

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Speaker 1: This is from the Wall Street Journal They say Israel

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Speaker 1: deepens push into Gaza City. Israel is claiming much of

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Speaker 1: Hamasa's military defenses its command, and many fighters are concentrated

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Speaker 1: in Gaza City. Of course, it's always important to keep

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Speaker 1: in mind here because this often gets left out of

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Speaker 1: the conversation. Most of Hamas's leadership is not in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Much of it is in Qatar or in Lebanon and

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Speaker 1: other places, so they are not there present on the ground,

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Speaker 1: which I think speaks to what Israel's real goal here is,

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Speaker 1: which their military offensive has never made sense in terms

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Speaker 1: of just eradicating Hamas, which we've had from a number

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Speaker 1: of military analysts saying exactly that in any case, if

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Speaker 1: Israeli forces, they say, push into Gaza City, they will

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Speaker 1: likely face Hamas militants that have barricaded themselves inside bombed

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Speaker 1: out buildings and build a network of tunnels and underground

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Speaker 1: command bunkers. Many civilians, it's important to recall, remain in

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Speaker 1: that city and surrounding neighborhoods, unable or afraid to leave

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Speaker 1: the north because of the continued fighting, despite repeated Israeli

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Speaker 1: calls for non combatants to move south, and of course

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Speaker 1: Israel has continued to bomb the south as well, so

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Speaker 1: it's not like people who have moved to the south

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Speaker 1: have been entirely safe from these bombing campaigns as well,

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Speaker 1: and of course the entire territory is under an extended

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Speaker 1: siege at this point, and Sager, from what we can tell,

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Speaker 1: it seems at this point they haven't done a lot more.

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Speaker 4: They've really gotten out of the tanks at this point.

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Speaker 1: And so as far as we know, there have been

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Speaker 1: few Israeli casualties, not zero, but relatively few. But again,

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Speaker 1: this is all we're basically like flying blind here with

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Speaker 1: what can be pieced together in terms of the operation

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Speaker 1: that's been executed thus far.

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Speaker 4: We're going to get into in a bit.

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Speaker 1: How even the private companies that have these satellite images

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Speaker 1: that they normally sell to news outlets, et cetera and

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Speaker 1: to the public have blocked a lot of the images

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Speaker 1: coming out.

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Speaker 4: That makes it even more difficult.

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Speaker 1: And Israel has been periodically imposing these complete telecoms and

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Speaker 1: internet blackouts on Gaza, so no one can get on

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Speaker 1: information about what is actually going on there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the difficulty.

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Speaker 2: So Gaza City, they're saying, was the nexus of the

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Speaker 2: planning of the attack on October seventh. They've pointed to

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Speaker 2: the als chiefa hospital and others as one of them.

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Speaker 2: The headquarters with a tunnel network underneath the hospital where

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Speaker 2: they claim that HAMAS has much of its at least

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Speaker 2: command and control infrastructure. So, as you said, I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: what we've witnessed so far is, even though we're a

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Speaker 2: month now, basically well really only two weeks or so

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Speaker 2: into the actual military response, they've cut off Gaza City

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Speaker 2: from a couple of angles.

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Speaker 3: They've made sure that they've had it.

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Speaker 2: In the south, civilians are fleeing at least I saw

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Speaker 2: some videos to coming out this morning of that. And

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Speaker 2: then in the north they've also isolated any sort of

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Speaker 2: exit that HAMAS would try and have, so then they're

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Speaker 2: trying to squeeze around the city and encircle it. Now,

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Speaker 2: encircling it is one matter. As you said, that's why

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Speaker 2: the casualties they have been taking have been limited, although

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Speaker 2: of course they have said a couple hundred so far. However,

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Speaker 2: what they say is they want to destroy the tunnel network.

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Speaker 2: Now that is going to be incredibly difficult because there

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Speaker 2: is basically no way to ensure that you're doing that

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Speaker 2: keep the hostages alive without having to go in and

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Speaker 2: send people and actually have fighting, you know, in these

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Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of miles of tunnels.

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Speaker 3: Now it's possible that they may not choose to do that.

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Speaker 2: They may isolate it, try and take out as many

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Speaker 2: civilians as possible, and then level the entire thing with

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Speaker 2: bunker busting bombs. We've seen some that have been dropped.

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Speaker 2: That actually might be the most plausible way if you

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Speaker 2: want to take the minimal amount of casualties. But the

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Speaker 2: problem is of the emotional issue of so many of

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Speaker 2: these two hundred something hostages that are likely being held

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Speaker 2: in that region as well. So this is a true

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Speaker 2: like devil's bargain for the Israeli military planners and something

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Speaker 2: that they're really going to have to decide, you know,

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Speaker 2: which way they want to go. The other side of

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Speaker 2: that problem is, you know, you can drop bunker busting

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Speaker 2: bombs or you are going to destroy the entire city,

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Speaker 2: like it's going to be gone and not even rubble,

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Speaker 2: it's just gonna be like dust.

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Speaker 3: That is left there.

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Speaker 2: And you've even got your own troops now in there.

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Speaker 2: This is a question then of you're really going to

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Speaker 2: ignite you know, fears and outrage in the Arab world

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Speaker 2: about like you've not even It's like, how can you

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Speaker 2: return to absolutely nothing and a literal erasure. When we

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Speaker 2: talk about the parking lot, you know me, it's effectively

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Speaker 2: what they would be turning into. So there's regardless, it

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Speaker 2: appears to be some sort of turning point. We're going

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Speaker 2: to see how they decide to take care of quote

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Speaker 2: unquote Gaza City. Are they going to go in have

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Speaker 2: bloody hand to hand combat or are they just going

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Speaker 2: to encircle it, try and get as many people out

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Speaker 2: as possible and then flatten the entire thing. Both are

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Speaker 2: you know, truly are both will be devastating really for

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Speaker 2: everybody involved.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And of course, as we're watching this all unfold, you know,

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Speaker 1: we brought you yesterday the comments coming out of the

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Speaker 1: Israeli government, one minister saying, hey, maybe one option is

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Speaker 1: we should is nuke and Gaza. That's one possibility, he said.

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Speaker 1: He also said that the all the Palestinians should be dispersed.

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Speaker 1: They can go to the desert, or they can go

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Speaker 1: to Ireland. Additional comments like that, you have another member

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Speaker 1: of net Nyahu's Likud party saying what we want is nakpa.

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Speaker 1: We want a second Nakpa, more devastating than the first.

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Speaker 1: Than paraphrasing, but those were essentially the words that were

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Speaker 1: offered there. You have, of course multiple now reports, one

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Speaker 1: from a think tank, one from an official Israeli government

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Speaker 1: ministry laying out, Hey, what we really want to do

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Speaker 1: is we want to push all of the Palestinians out

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Speaker 1: of Gaza. So when you see these extremists who were

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Speaker 1: saying what Soccer was alluding to there, you know what

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Speaker 1: we should really do is just turn Gaza into a

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Speaker 1: parking lot. That is a very real possibility of what

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Speaker 1: could be happening here, And certainly it appears that the

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Speaker 1: goal of pushing all of Palestinian, the Palestinians in Gaza

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Speaker 1: out of Gaza is being pursued behind the scenes by

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Speaker 1: the net Nyahuo administration. We've now had mainstream reporting about

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Speaker 1: the pressure that is being put on Egypt to accept

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians. Now they claim, oh,

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Speaker 1: it would just be temporary, it's just for humanitarian reasons.

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Speaker 1: But given the communications that have been potentially intentionally leaked

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Speaker 1: out of the Israeli government, I think there is deep

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Speaker 1: reason for skepticism about that, especially when you consider that

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Speaker 1: significant parts of the net Nyahuo coalition have always had

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Speaker 1: this as their stated objective. Moving on, as I mentioned

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Speaker 1: at the top, we are now it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to believe, but we're now officially one month from October seventh,

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Speaker 1: when Hamas perpetrated those horrific attacks on many Israeli citizens,

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Speaker 1: and that, of course, on that very day net Nyahu

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Speaker 1: announced we are now at war, and they began their

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Speaker 1: war on Gaza. And just the last evening we got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an indication from net Nyahoo about

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Speaker 1: what he is thinking the future of Gaza may look like,

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Speaker 1: or some aspect of it. In any case, let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen to what he had to say on an

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Speaker 1: English language. By the way, American broadcast take a lesson.

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Speaker 5: President Biden has said that it would be a mistake

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Speaker 5: for Israel to occupy Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Who should govern Gaza when this is over?

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Speaker 6: Those who don't want to continue the way of Hamas,

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Speaker 6: and certainly is not. I think Israel will, for an

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Speaker 6: indefinite period, will have the overall security responsibility, because we've

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Speaker 6: seen what happens when we don't have it. When we

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Speaker 6: don't have that security responsibility, what we have is the

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Speaker 6: eruption of Hamas terror on a scale that we couldn't imagine.

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Speaker 1: So he's basically floating there a reoccupation. He's trying to

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Speaker 1: parse the wording because the Americans, Biden has expressly said

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Speaker 1: he thinks it's a bad idea for Israel to reoccupy Gaza.

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Speaker 4: What did you make of this comment?

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Speaker 2: Saga, Well, welcome to Iraq two thousand and four. You've

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Speaker 2: broken it, and now you've bought it, and now you're

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Speaker 2: going to have to live with the consequences. And this

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Speaker 2: is where Look, they're in a hellish situation no matter what,

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Speaker 2: because their past strategy was the only real politically.

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Speaker 3: Viable one thing was going to happen. I mean viable.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say it was just, but it was at

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Speaker 2: least calm ish right before, you're talking about from an

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Speaker 2: Israeli perspective, They're like, well, yeah, we know, we surrounded

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Speaker 2: with a bunch of fences.

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Speaker 3: Hamas governs it. It is what it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, every once in a while, we mow the grass.

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Speaker 2: That's how it goes. Then they said that that is intolerable. Well,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're going to be responsible now for

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Speaker 2: the security situation, that is going to mean a full

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Speaker 2: scale military occupation. We're not even talking about settlers or

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Speaker 2: any of that other stuff. I'm talking about Israeli IDF

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Speaker 2: troops setting up checkpoints, letting people go through. Ask any

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Speaker 2: American soldier who had to man a checkpoint interact. A

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Speaker 2: lot of those guys, well, they were faced with suicide bombers,

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Speaker 2: they were faced with horrible ambushes, attacks. They were the

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Speaker 2: vector of like so much violence, not even to mention

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Speaker 2: like the civil war situation. So if that is the case,

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Speaker 2: if you're saying you're gonna have an indefinite occupation, which

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Speaker 2: what the United States signed up for before the first

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Speaker 2: Iraqi elections and you know, the Bunk elections honestly in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, well again, I mean, I would

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Speaker 2: just say good luck to you, because you're going to

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Speaker 2: need tens to hundreds of thousands of troops to have

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Speaker 2: a security over two something million people. Let's say even

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Speaker 2: that there is you know, one point five million or

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Speaker 2: something like that left. I don't know, you know what

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Speaker 2: the actual number will be. It's still so tremendously difficult

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Speaker 2: in that small amount of area to have security to

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Speaker 2: set up. And now this is the other thing when

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Speaker 2: you say security situation, as America found out in Iraq.

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Speaker 2: You can just want to be responsible for security. But

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Speaker 2: when you're ending up responsible for security, now you're running

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Speaker 2: the water system, now you're running the electricity grid, now

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Speaker 2: you're running like civil services. Now you have to set

403
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Speaker 2: up departments to make sure that you know, oh, well,

404
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Speaker 2: what happens when one shake hates another shake and shoots

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Speaker 2: at him, And you're like, well, I guess we got

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Speaker 2: to figure this out. That's exactly what you are signing

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Speaker 2: up for. So when he says indefinite occupation or indefinite

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Speaker 2: security for a temporary pier or indefinite security situation, you

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Speaker 2: are signing up for an occupation or you are signing

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Speaker 2: up for a return to the status.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 2: I would personally hope, just for everybody's sake, that it's

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Speaker 2: at least that as opposed to the other, because the

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Speaker 2: other think about how incendiary it is to have IDF

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Speaker 2: troops in a full scale military occupation of Gaza now

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Speaker 2: for quote unquote an indefinite period of time. That just

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Speaker 2: means that, and maybe we should have believed them at

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Speaker 2: the top when they're like, yeah, it's going to go

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Speaker 2: on for years in terms of the war. That is

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Speaker 2: what low grade and I don't mean that, I mean

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Speaker 2: low grade war that just goes on for years and years.

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Speaker 2: And the real issue is if you don't have the

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Speaker 2: political sustainability to sign up for something like that, and

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Speaker 2: it will just lead to the worst of all worlds,

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Speaker 2: where're going to have a massive deterioration of the security situation.

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Speaker 2: And let's you know, just like what happened to America

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Speaker 2: in Iraq is a lot of the populace got radicalized

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Speaker 2: against us and it actually made things ten times worse

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Speaker 2: than if we hadn't invaded in the first place. So

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Speaker 2: I'm personally very dubious that this will I'm personally dubious

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Speaker 2: that this is actually possible. But that does not mean

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Speaker 2: that just like we did that they won't try. They're

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Speaker 2: going to find out all the same lessons that we did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's and that's without even you know, discussing

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Speaker 1: the utter humiliation, degradation, brutality that would be life for

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Speaker 1: all of the residents of Gaza, the you know, the

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Speaker 1: children there. Of course, it's one of the youngest populations

438
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 1: in the entire world, and what that would look like

439
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: for them on a day to day basis. And I

440
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: think Sager's one hundred percent right when he says this

441
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 1: is not a strategy to keep Israel safe, it's certainly

442
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 1: not a strategy for the humanity and dignity of the

443
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: Palestinian people. And you know, the other open question I

444
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: think we always have to keep in mind is whether

445
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: it's even going to be net and Yahoo in place

446
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: leading this government. And also, you know, he is a liar,

447
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 1: so what he says now could change a minute from now.

448
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: And you know, it's I think the pressure that is

449
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 1: being reported behind the scenes to just end the Palestinian

450
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: statehood question once and for all, push all of the

451
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: Palestinians out of Gaza. We already see the violent efforts

452
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: for settlers backed by the IDF to aggressively push Palestinis

453
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: off of their land in the West Bank as well.

454
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: I think the writing is on the wall for a

455
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: lot of these things. So, as we've been discussing, it

456
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: is exactly one month to the day since October seventh.

457
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: We can put up on the screen what we know

458
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: of the death toll that has been exacted on Israelis

459
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: and also on Palestinians. So fourteen hundred as we know

460
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: Israel Israeli citizens killed on October seventh. Since then, we've

461
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: had somewhere around ten thousand deaths in Gaza. Of course,

462
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: it is very difficult to know because of all of

463
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: the barriers that we've discussed before.

464
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 4: There is actually an indicasion put this up on.

465
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: The screen from a senior Israeli military source to an

466
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: Israeli news outlet that they actually think that twenty thousand

467
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: have been killed in Gaza by IDF attacks.

468
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 4: They claim most of terrorists.

469
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: I think we can see from the number of women

470
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: and children have been killed that that is unfathomable that

471
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: that would be accurate.

472
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 4: So again, very difficult to say.

473
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: Ryan over at the Intercept, they did some reporting to

474
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: try to verify. Okay, you know the Health Ministry and Gaza,

475
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: they're the ones we get the death numbers from, and

476
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: the Biden Ad ministration has been trying to throw cold

477
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: water in this because they're run by Hamas, even though

478
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: in previous conflicts their death counts and casualty rates have

479
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: been pretty accurate. But based on the list of individuals

480
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: that they put out that had been killed, Ryan was

481
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: able to cross check that with people that were known

482
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: to have been killed in and actually understated by some

483
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: amount the number of deaths. So in any case, whatever

484
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: the number is, we know that it is significant. We

485
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,239
Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of civilians, and that

486
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: this has been incredibly brutal of a response from the Israelis.

487
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: We can also tell that by this math. Let's put

488
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,719
Speaker 1: this up on the screen that shows you the level

489
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: of destruction in the Gaza strip. So keep this up

490
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: on the screen, tie and explain a little bit of

491
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: what you were looking at. The orange that you see

492
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: on this map is damage that was inflicted in the

493
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: first roughly two weeks, so from October seventh to October

494
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: twenty fifth of this war on Gaza. The red areas

495
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: that you see here are the damaged areas since October

496
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: twenty fifth. You can see Israeli ground operation, you can

497
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: see Israeli incursions, you can see Israeli artillery, air strikes,

498
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: you can see reported fighting. And one thing while we

499
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: have this up on the screen, that you can see

500
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: very clearly, Yes, the northern part of Gaza that you

501
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 1: see there has been i mean vast loss of it destroyed.

502
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: But it's not like the south where people were told

503
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: to flee, has been unscathed either. And you can see

504
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: actually quite a lot of red, which is the more

505
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: recent damage that has occurred in that area. Let's go

506
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: ahead and put this next piece up on the screen.

507
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: That gives you a sense of just how much firepower

508
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: has been used in this, you know, month, which is

509
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: in a grand scheme of things, a very short period

510
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: of time. A European human rights group called the euro

511
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: met Human Rights Monitor. They calculated that Israel has dropped

512
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: more than twenty five thousand tons of explosives on the

513
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: Gaza strip since the start of this bombardment on October seventh.

514
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: That is roughly equivalent to two nuclear bombs of the

515
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: variety that we dropped in Japan. So, you know, when

516
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about nukes and the Israeli minister who said, hey,

517
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: maybe that's one option, Well, this isn't dropping a nuclear bomb,

518
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: but the level of explosives have been just as catastrophic.

519
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: Put this next piece up on the screen, just as

520
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: another way of intellectualizing how much firepower we're talking about here.

521
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: Israel dropped almost as many bombs in Gaza in one

522
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: week one week as the US did in Afghanistan in

523
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: their heaviest year of bombardment. And for reference here Gaza

524
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: is just one hundred and forty one square miles. The

525
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: whole thing Afghanistan, of course, Ava's country two hundred and

526
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: fifty two thousand plus square miles. So gives you a

527
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: sense of just how intense and indiscriminate this bombing campaign

528
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: has been thus far.

529
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: Soccer, well, the issue that they really have is that

530
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: in terms of the number of these munitions. I remember,

531
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: because I covered this a lot, the Battle of Mosul

532
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: also with Isis, we were actually dropping so many bombs

533
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 2: that we ran out of precision guided munitions. So I

534
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: actually do have a lot of questions here in terms

535
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 2: of Israel and like are we going to restock this?

536
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: If so, it actually took us years to restock the

537
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: number that we were able to drop on them. Who

538
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: are they manufacturing some of these what exactly some of

539
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: these bombs are I actually recommend people go and read

540
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: this piece.

541
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: It's pretty interesting.

542
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 2: It's about the quote secrecy shrouds the Israeli targeting process

543
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: because the Israelis, and you know when I spend time there,

544
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: they would always hammer this in. They're like, look, we

545
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: have the most precision guided munitions, like we have a

546
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: very They're like we have a process like we you know,

547
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: the door knock, we knock on the roof, we send

548
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: the text messages, we try and clear out as much

549
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: as possible before we strike a building, and we have

550
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: a pretty good ability to tell you, like which floor

551
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: that we're able to strike. I heard a lot of

552
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: this too from the Pentagon whenever that was happening. I mean,

553
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: I think that the biggest issue that they have is

554
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: that it's just very clear when you have a massive

555
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: intel failure on October seven, it really calls into question

556
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: so many of the things that they were able to

557
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 2: assure the US military.

558
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: You know, even people like me, like while I was.

559
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: There, who were listening and I was like, oh, okay,

560
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, they say, we'll see and whenever

561
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: you start to see some of this, you know, in

562
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: terms of the tens of thousands of munitions now that

563
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: have been dropped, like I said, it really comes to

564
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 2: question about the supply issues, about what their ultimate aims

565
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 2: are and all that. So, look, the biggest issue I

566
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: think is that as they continue to have a loss

567
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: of the trust deficit with broadly the international community, including

568
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: the United States, Let's be honest.

569
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: I mean, John Kirby.

570
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: Yesterday, the State NSC spokesperson was like, well, you know,

571
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: we have some indication that they're trying to reduce similar

572
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: civilian casualty, but that's not an endorsement of what they're doing.

573
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 3: It's like, what what are you saying?

574
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: Right, It's like it's like triple speak, just say what

575
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: we actually think, man, right, And so anyway, I think

576
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: that they are truly suffering from they feel and this

577
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: is from what you know from my recent communications with Isra.

578
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: They feel justified for the carnage of October seventh. They're like, look,

579
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: we're the more powerful, so yeah, we're going to queue up,

580
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: like that's how it works.

581
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 3: Well.

582
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: I think the issue is that they're losing political capital

583
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: in the US and especially in the broader international world,

584
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: and they feel especially like they don't have to justify

585
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: a damn thing to America and to the rest of

586
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: the world, and to them, I would say, you got

587
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: to again think back to some of the lessons that

588
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: we learned in Iraq, because a lot of early US

589
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: commanders used to think the same way. By the time

590
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: of two thousand seventeen rolled around. We and I talked

591
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: about this yesterday. The Pentagon and everybody was doing extensive

592
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: briefing operations to make sure every single target that was

593
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: hit in Iraq and Syria. They showed you a video.

594
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: They're like, Hey, here's the oil rig that they were using.

595
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: Here's what we.

596
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: Came in and we bombed it with. Here's why we

597
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: bombed it. Here are the guys that we killed. It

598
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: was like trying to get ahead of any potential outrage

599
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: or ISIS claiming that civilians were killed and all that.

600
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: I think it was a hard fought lesson that we

601
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: had to learn in Iraq and Afghanistan, and eventually, how

602
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: I watched the US military operate in the late twenty

603
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: tens is we really learned that if you don't get

604
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: ahead of it, and you don't have at least some

605
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: level of trust for a lot of people that what

606
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: you're doing is actually fitting with what you're saying, well,

607
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: you're really gonna lose you know, a lot of people.

608
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: And unfortunately for them, I think that they're heading very

609
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: much down that road with the number of munitions dropped,

610
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: with the level of secrecy that is involved, and everyone's

611
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: like that's their right, Yeah, I'm not just you can

612
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: do whatever you want.

613
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: That's not what I'm talking about.

614
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about here is if you want to

615
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: live in the law, if you want to live and

616
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: survive in the long run. I don't think that they're

617
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: headed to us. I don't think they're operating in a

618
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: sustainable way. I think something is going to break eventually.

619
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: And they've been using through you know, throwing in our face,

620
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: which putin did as well our conduct in Iraq and

621
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the number of civilians that we killed, and

622
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: there's no justification for the way that we conducted ourselves

623
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: in those words, there was no justification for the Iraq

624
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: invasion whatsoever, and there was no justification for the lengthy

625
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: occupation of Afghanistan. Well, I think it was the you know,

626
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: justified to go in to try to get Bin Lun

627
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: when we failed at that, like that was the task,

628
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: and then we stay there for forever. It really is

629
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: shocking to me to see the you know, outright advocation

630
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: for ethnic cleansing and outright like hey, there are no

631
00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: innocent civilians not only being advocated directly that perspective being

632
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: laid out directly from the net Yahoo government, echoed by

633
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: at least one member of the United States Congress here

634
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: the total justification of killing of children. I mean, I

635
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: saw Fox News segment yesterday where the dude was like, yeah,

636
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, they could be stopping on suicide bombs these children.

637
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: I really like, it is another level to me to

638
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: see this just brazenly advocated for this viewpoint, the total

639
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: indiscriminate bombing, the overwhelming nature of this, I mean, I

640
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: just I truly am shocked by it, and so Sago

641
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: when you're talking about like Kirby being like, well, it

642
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: seems like they try maybe to do a little bit

643
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: for civilians. But I'm not endorsing. I mean these liberals

644
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: like Biden, who have put a lot of stock and

645
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: said a lot of stuff about the international rules based order,

646
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: they have no cover here whatsoever. And of course Israel

647
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: is not going to respect any little like face saving

648
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: humanitarian pause gestures, and they're certainly not going to respect

649
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: any calls for a ceasefire when there is no willingness

650
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: to use the incredible significant leverage that we have in

651
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: the form of our military weapons and our aid dollars.

652
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: There's no willingness to take that off the table. Of course,

653
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: they're not going to listen to us. But you know,

654
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of like, well, why you know,

655
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: Hamas targeted civilians, so why should they be held to

656
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: a different standard than Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

657
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: You're holding yourself out as like the beacon of the

658
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: civilized world within the Middle East. Of course, there's a

659
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: different standard, and it's insane to me that you would

660
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: suggest otherwise. Like the number of documented likely war crimes

661
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: that have been committed here in a month are I

662
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: mean again, I expect brutality from the Israelis based on

663
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: their previous mo the lawn operations, but this is another

664
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: level and just the last piece that we have here

665
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: before we get into you know what a difficult situation

666
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: this has been for journalists, both in terms of coverage

667
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: and also in terms of journalists on the ground just

668
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: being able to live and have their families continue to live.

669
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen, US reporting Israeli forces

670
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: have killed eighty eight.

671
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: UN AID workers.

672
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: That is more than have ever been killed in a

673
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: single conflict in history. Forty seven UN buildings, more than

674
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: one hundred health facilities have been hit by Israeli airstrikes,

675
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and you know, to Sager's point about how you know,

676
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: they don't even really try to justify a lot of

677
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: these things.

678
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: They do some they give them credit, like every once

679
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: in a while they do actually put.

680
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: But to give you a sense of how thin it is. Okay,

681
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: when that convoy of ambulances was hit and they were like, oh,

682
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: it was terrorists, and they got asked on TV like okay,

683
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: well who were they? What they They're like, we don't

684
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: really know. It's like, okay, then how do you know

685
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: they're terrorists?

686
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: You don't even know.

687
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 1: Apparently that October seventh was going to happen. We're supposed

688
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: to take your word for it that you know that

689
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: the you know who it was exactly in that ambulance

690
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: you were targeting, and we're supposed to ta take your

691
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: word for it. When you go on the television and

692
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, we don't really know, we'll go back

693
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: to you on that.

694
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 2: Come on, Well, it's like one in the US actually

695
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: accidentally killed that guy at for the revenge and the

696
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: ISIS attack on Afghanistan. It turned out to be a

697
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: totally innocent guy who was like a water salesman or

698
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: something like that.

699
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 3: We killed his family.

700
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: I would just put it on a way out of it.

701
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 4: He was an aid worker US the lined aid worker.

702
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's what I would say.

703
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 2: If they militarily were actually doing something whereatch I thought

704
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: that they could destroy Hamas, I would support them one

705
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: hundred percent. I just don't actually think that they're doing that.

706
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that they're making the situation far worse.

707
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: I think they're putting us at risk too. I mean

708
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: this is the other issue. Everyone's like, oh, support Israel,

709
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: support Palestine. I mean, personally, I don't really care about

710
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: either of them. I care about the United States and

711
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: I keep, you know, on a human level, I'm like, yeah,

712
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 2: I wish you the best. I've got friends in both places.

713
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: But for me, I'm like, I just don't want to

714
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: see US service members in borld in the war. That's

715
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: like my guiding north Star was on Ukraine is here too.

716
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: I'm always going to care about us more first second

717
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: on that is trying to actually keep us out of

718
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: some sort of conflict. Then, you know, I would look

719
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: at this and I would be like, all right, so

720
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: with Israel, are you actually going to destroy Hamas? Now

721
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: I actually support the destruction of Hamas, but I don't

722
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: think that they're doing something to genuinely lead to that effort.

723
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the US campaign against ISIS with in conjunction

724
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: with the Iraqi security forces, was genuinely a masterful operation,

725
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: and you know, it took months, it was much more targeted.

726
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: We killed, along with the Iraqis, thousands of ISIS fighters,

727
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: and there was about a one to one civilian casualty rate.

728
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's justified, but I mean, in retrospect,

729
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: I think all the people who claim that was so

730
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: brutal can see that if you have the similar number

731
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: of civilians killed in a single month as opposed to

732
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: a two year campaign, they really should shut up about

733
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: what that looked like at the time. So anyway, if

734
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: I thought that this was a genuinely successful military operation

735
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 2: and had a chance of keeping both the US out

736
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: and of creating some sort of sustainable situation in the future,

737
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 2: I would cool. But the main issue for me really

738
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: has been I think that they are both inflaming tensions

739
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 2: against the United States. I don't think they're making themselves safer.

740
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: I think that Netanyahu in particular is a genuinely like

741
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: villainous figure, and I think that he's that so much

742
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: of his personal conduct, and therefore Israel's conduct is tied

743
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: up into his own ego and his own political future

744
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: for the failure of that attack. And that's that's why

745
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 2: I say that. I mean, whenever I see everything he does,

746
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: his orientation is he wants to stay into power, and

747
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: he wants to keep things on a longer basis so

748
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: that he can keep away any sort of investigation into

749
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 2: him in the future. And I'm like, hey, you're tied

750
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: the entire nation's fate, possibly forever, onto your own political

751
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: sustainable career. That's an insane thing to do. If you

752
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 2: consider yourself a patriot. If you were to see some

753
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: sort of conflict of interest like this, any genuine patriot

754
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: be like, you know what, I'm too controversial.

755
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 3: I'm out. You guys do a coalition government. You can

756
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: figure it out.

757
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: I'm you know, some sort of flame figure like this,

758
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 2: I'll sit by on the sidelines and I'll support whoever

759
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: so that we can get to some sort of solution

760
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: which nobody can question, both in the world and here domestically.

761
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,479
Speaker 3: He's chosen not to do.

762
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: That, so there's a lot of and by doing that also,

763
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: he has to allow these guys Smotrich and all these

764
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,959
Speaker 2: other you know, nut jobs who we America has never

765
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: signed on to any of these West Bank Settlement people

766
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: to allow in power in the government and then inflame

767
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: the situation even more, deteriorating again our long political capital

768
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 2: that we've built up now for so long in the midleast.

769
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 2: So that's a very long way of just saying, like, listen,

770
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 2: I'm not above supporting Israel. If they were to actually

771
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: doing something which I thought would work, I would be

772
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: like absolutely, one hundred percent. But I haven't seen a

773
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: lot of evidence from that from day one. And the

774
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: Nets and Nahu piece is actually probably the one that

775
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: bothers me the most is I'm like, you do not

776
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: have a real, like political sustainable coalition at the top

777
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: of your government which inspires confidence in your allies that

778
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: you were acting on the best, you know, on the

779
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: best behalf of the Israeli people.

780
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: You're doing enough for yourself.

781
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's a real, real problem that

782
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 2: years from now when we look back at the response

783
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: and all that, as we can see, you know, with

784
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 2: all the political shit show of the Civil War cabinet

785
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: and they for the Chamberlain government in the early nineteen

786
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: forties or even you know, the FDR government in the

787
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: early years of World War One. You could see so

788
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 2: much of the stuff that was going on behind the scenes.

789
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 2: We're going to look at this as one of the

790
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: main problems for Israel and they could have massive ramifications

791
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 2: I think for their history, you know, in the future.

792
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: And also, I mean any of our pretense that like

793
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: how much we care about human rights or the international

794
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: rules based order, Like it's just.

795
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 4: Completely I've just always thought that was fake, utter bull shite.

796
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't put the morality aside, like the

797
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: number of atrocities and the mass killing of children and

798
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: women and innocent civilians, and the complete effectively leveling of

799
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: Gaza at this point, and the plans for an outright

800
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: ethnic cleansing, like I can't just put to the side.

801
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 4: But Sager is.

802
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: One hundred percent right that even if like the humanitarian

803
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: part of this and the atrocities don't move you, then

804
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: Israel is not taking actions that will keep their own

805
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: people safer, that will make them more safe, that will

806
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: preserve Israeli security. They're also, as I said before, as

807
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: long as American made bombs are being dropped on this

808
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: trapped population in an open air prison.

809
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 4: We're creating more and more people that.

810
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: Will that absolutely hate us and will absolutely look to

811
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: seek revenge. So is that keeping is that keeping us safer?

812
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: This is in this idea of like, oh, we want

813
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: to destroy Hamas, That's an impossible goal, Like no one

814
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: has even really defined what that means. And I think

815
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: the clear syndication that they are not serious about it

816
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: whatsoever is number one, the collective punishment of the entire population,

817
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 1: which is counterproductive because you need an accounter insurgency fight,

818
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: you need people on the ground you can work with

819
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: who are going to actually you have some sort of

820
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: positive disposition towards you. And by the way, prior to

821
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: this action, actually there was a Hamas had suffered a

822
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: huge loss of support among the population in Gaza over

823
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: basic governance issues where you know, they were under blockade.

824
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: Obviously they understood that the Israeli government was the chief

825
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: cause of their suffering, but they were very frustrated and

826
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: upset with the governance of Hamas as well. So you

827
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: can see from that, and you can also say, because

828
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: the Hamas leadership isn't even in Gaza, and I don't

829
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: see any efforts whatsoever to bring those dudes to justice.

830
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: So you know they're not serious about this, and you

831
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: know that they're not idiots, and they know that this

832
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: is an impossible task to begin with. So, as I've

833
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: said from the beginning, it's really clear what the goal

834
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: here is.

835
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 4: I think it's threefold.

836
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: Number one, retribution blood letting just go in and get

837
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: revenge for what they did to us. Number two, and

838
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: this has been a consistent theme for Israel for decades now. Basically,

839
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: they were humiliated on October seventh. They've got to go

840
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: in and show they're the biggest bastards on the block.

841
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: That's the other piece. To try to restore there what

842
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: they view as their deterrence effect and prove that they're

843
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: the biggest m efforts.

844
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 4: In the area.

845
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: That's number two and number three, and probably the most

846
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: important goal, as Sager was just saying, is for NETANYAHUU

847
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: to try to cling to power for another day. That's

848
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: what's really going on here. All this talk about getting hamas,

849
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: that's not what they're doing. That isn't I mean, there

850
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: is barely a pretense of that.

851
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 4: At this point. I would have to say, well.

852
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: I would like for them to see that. We will see.

853
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: It's very possible that they could have some political issues

854
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: at home where the people wake up and they're like, hey,

855
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: hold on a second, they're really only a couple.

856
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the other thing.

857
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: They haven't suffered any setbacks yet, and if they're lucky,

858
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: they won't get any.

859
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 3: But we'll see.

860
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 2: You know, in war, the enemy does get a vote,

861
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: So it's more possible that they could suffer some massive

862
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: military disaster and that could lead to a re calibration

863
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: of strategy, maybe a debate inside of the country about

864
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: how they should conduct themselves and others. So look, we're

865
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: still very early into this conflict, and that's part of

866
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: why I can't help. But like when I see him

867
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: say things like indefinite occupation, I'm like, you have no

868
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: idea what you're saying, because a lot of people in

869
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: O three they're like, it'll be fine. You know, what

870
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: is it the iraqis freedom is a wonderful thing. Whenever

871
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: Rumsfeld was asked about looting, he's like, you have the

872
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: freedom to do this, but you also have the freedom

873
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: to go around and to vote and to be empowered

874
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: once again as an individual. And we saw how quickly

875
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: the dark side of that can materialize, and how many

876
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: Americans can suffer. And also hundreds of thousands of Iraqis

877
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 2: you died in the security vacuum, they very much could

878
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: be setting themselves up for that situation too, because once

879
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: you set yourself up for the security situation, you're not

880
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: just responsible for your own security, you're responsible for the

881
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: security of everybody else who's inside. And that's a tremendously,

882
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: tremendously difficult task. Let's move on then to the next

883
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: part here around journalism, we've often stressed about just how

884
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: difficult it is to have proper information about what's coming

885
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: out of Gaza, about what's even happening in Gaza. Let's

886
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen, because this is

887
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: a very significant, actually piece of news from Semaphore. Key

888
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 2: providers of satellite photography to news organization and researchers have

889
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: now begun to restrict imagery of Gaza after a New

890
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: York Times report on Israeli tank positions that was based

891
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: on the images. So the satellite image provider here is

892
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: Planet Labs and a bunch of other competitors to them.

893
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: They've revolutionized coverage of wars and disasters because they have

894
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 2: commercial satellites that are up in the air that they

895
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 2: can get real time footage. Not real time, but you know,

896
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: maybe twenty four hours or seventy two hours delay to

897
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: actually show exactly what has happened. And it's incredibly useful

898
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: for reporting on the Syrian Civil War, for the emosul

899
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: for ICE and especially in Ukraine. Anybody who has been

900
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: watching the Ukraine situation knows how he use these comsat

901
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 2: companies are well. The issue though, is that for some reason,

902
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: these companies are now quote heavily restricting obscuring parts of

903
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: images over the Gaza strip for users, including news organizations.

904
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: So it's difficult to understand exactly why the subscribers, and

905
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: again these are people who pay a premium for this product,

906
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: have not had access to quote high resolution imagery of

907
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: Gaza since October twenty second, ever since The New York

908
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: Times actually reported on Israeli tank positions.

909
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 3: So then the question comes.

910
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 2: Is this at the behest of is the company owned

911
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: by an Israeli guy and he's like, hey, we're just

912
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: not going to do this. Is this maybe at the

913
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: request the behest or the order of the Israeli government

914
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: is at the US government because this is such like

915
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: a new phenomenon in terms of commercial satellite analysis. Nobody

916
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: really knows in terms of the jurisdiction on what you

917
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: are aren't allowed, you know, in terms of other countries

918
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: to be able to look at. But I think effect

919
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: is obvious, which is we know less about what's going

920
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: on in Gaza because of this.

921
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: Even that Financial Times map that.

922
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: We used previously that cut off at October twenty sixth, now.

923
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: We know why. Yeah, because we didn't.

924
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: We don't know about what's being held and what isn't

925
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: and that previously I think we'd done brought people multiple analysises,

926
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: like based on compsat imagery, we can say that twenty

927
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 2: five percent of the buildings have been leveled.

928
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 3: Now we don't know. Yeah, I don't know anything.

929
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an important point because actually Axios and a

930
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: number of other news outlets had done a really good

931
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: job of putting together Okay, here's the satellite image of

932
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: this neighborhood before the Israeli airstrikes.

933
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 4: Here is it afterwards.

934
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: And since you don't have you know, a lot that

935
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: you can get from on the ground, this was a

936
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: really important way to understand the extent of the damage,

937
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: and so now we really are flying blind in terms of,

938
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, what is really happening on the ground. You

939
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: can't even get these satellite images to get a sense

940
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: of that whatsoever. And then the other piece was that

941
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: it seems to have been tied directly to this New

942
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: York Times report that showed some of the Israeli tank

943
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: movements and locations. And it's also important to point out,

944
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: like it's not just one satellite company. There are a

945
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: number of these satellite companies, and all of them seem

946
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: to be effectively censoring this information at this point.

947
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 4: So even from the air, we really can't.

948
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: Get a sense at this now of what is actually

949
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: happening on the ground. And that's before we would talk about,

950
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: you know, the situation for journalists within Gaza.

951
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 2: Well, why don't we get to that actually, because it

952
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: just again goes to show you the shaping of the

953
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 2: information environment is probably the single most important thing in

954
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: modern warfare. And this is a clip from CNN where

955
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 2: they describe the conditions about what it took to have

956
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 2: one of their journalists in bed with the IDF.

957
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: Let's take a.

958
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 7: Listen yesterday's CNN's Jeremy Diamond went into Gaza on an

959
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 7: IDFM bed. I should note that journalists embedded with the

960
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 7: IDF in Gaza operate under the observation of Israeli commanders

961
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 7: in the field and are not permitted to move unaccompanied

962
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 7: within the Gaza strip. As a condition to enter Gaza

963
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 7: under IDF escort outlets have to submit all materials and

964
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 7: footage to the Israeli military for review prior to publication.

965
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 7: CNN has agreed to these terms in order to provide

966
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 7: a limited window into Israel's operations in Gaza.

967
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 3: That's as stark as it gets.

968
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: Not only do you have to agree, you have to

969
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: provide them with your footage, which you know, I was

970
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 2: trying to think back to the early invasion of Iraq.

971
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure even when US troops were or US

972
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: journalists were embedded with Iraqi or US troops in Iraq,

973
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: that there was never a condition now to this effect,

974
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 2: I went back actually to try and to look there

975
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: was basically real time, live shots that were happening as

976
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: the humbies were rolling. And you know, there are multiple books,

977
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: great one of them is Generation Kill. If you want

978
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: to go and read it. I mean there's not a

979
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: single drop a censorship in.

980
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 3: That entire thing.

981
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: And that guy wrote all the way to Baghdad with

982
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: the Marines, So I mean, it just shows you, like

983
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: if they're to the extent where they're like, no, we're

984
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 2: going to review all the footage before you even broadcast that,

985
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: we're not going to allow you to go live from Gaza,

986
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: that just demonstrates like the level of the level of

987
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: control that they are putting on what actually gets out

988
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: of the country. It's also why they continue to cut

989
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: off all those communications of course, whenever every time they

990
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: have some sort of major military operation.

991
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so you have satellite imagery mysteriously blocked, you have

992
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: only certain hand picked journalists allowed to go in, and

993
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: it's basically like you know how North Korea will sometimes

994
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: allow yes, journalists to come in.

995
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 4: But they get this like fake tour of what's going on.

996
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 4: It's basically like that.

997
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: Level of control over the war propaganda coming out of

998
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: the Israeli side. So they pick the journalists, then they

999
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 1: get to vet all of the footage before it gets

1000
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: to air, and then you have all so this you know,

1001
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: frequent communications, Internet and sell complete blackout so that any

1002
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: sort of real time reporting of what's going on in

1003
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: the ground. You're just hearing rumors from like one person

1004
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: who happens to have like a Turkish sim card or

1005
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: some way to get some sort of information out of

1006
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: the Gaza Strip.

1007
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 4: So, I mean, it really is astonishing.

1008
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: I think it also underscores not only how critical Israel

1009
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: sees the information war as being, but also just how

1010
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: much control Israel has long had over this little enclave,

1011
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: which you know they love.

1012
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 4: Ah we withdrew back.

1013
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: In the two thousands and so they were doing their

1014
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: own thing, but they controlled everything about the conditions of

1015
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: that life, what came in, what went out, how many

1016
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: Gosins were allowed into Israel. You know, there was only

1017
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: like a small percentage of Godsans who were allowed to

1018
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: see cancer treatment in Israel. It was complete control over

1019
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: their life. And I think when you see how easily

1020
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: they're able to turn on and turn on off the

1021
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: communications for the two point two million people in the strip,

1022
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: you can see how tightly everything really was controlled the

1023
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: whole time.

1024
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that is an excellent point.

1025
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 2: And also it gets to you know, some of the

1026
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: toll that's been taken on some of the journalists who

1027
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: are covering this conflict. We have one clip we can

1028
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 2: put here up on the screen. I'll read from some

1029
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: of the tough subtitles. I'll warn everybody it's pretty disturbing

1030
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: if you do watch it here. He says, here we

1031
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: have become victims. He says, in a matter of time,

1032
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 2: we are going one after the other. He's reporting there

1033
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 2: from the hospital. The anchor is actually crying this from

1034
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: Palestine TV, the size of this catastrophe, the crime that

1035
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: we are experiencing here in godsg He's wearing full body

1036
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,439
Speaker 2: armour just for context, and you can see obviously he's

1037
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: breaking down. She is breaking down also as he kind

1038
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: of is watching everything that is happening. He says that

1039
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: there's no international security here at all. There's no immunity

1040
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: or anything at all for these shields or these helmets.

1041
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: This is where it's a really dramatic slogan. He says,

1042
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: these are slogans that we wear, and that is all

1043
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: because he's wearing press. He says, they don't protect any

1044
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 2: journalists at all. So this is the dramatic moment. He

1045
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: just takes off his body armor and has kevlar helmet

1046
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 2: and he just says we're losing souls one after another.

1047
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: We're victims directly on live television, and he's reporting we

1048
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 2: are losing souls from one after another. That was a pretty,

1049
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: you know, obviously a harrowing situation to be in. And

1050
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 2: it's come after quite a few journalists actually have been killed.

1051
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: Bronco Marchetique actually wrote about this for Jacobin.

1052
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 3: We can put it up there on the screen.

1053
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: At least thirty six journalists now been killed during the

1054
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: bombing campaign in Gaza, and in some cases, as we

1055
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: showed previously the al Jazeer reporter, some families of these

1056
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: journalists have been killed as well, with many of them

1057
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: finding out on live television. And the quote media establishment,

1058
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 2: which a short time ago was rightly decrying the murdy

1059
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: of murder of Jamal Kashogi, hasn't said a thing. And

1060
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: so I mean, this is where I'll just return to something.

1061
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 2: We're talking about a little bit of crystal. One of

1062
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 2: the reasons why I reject most moral campaigns out right

1063
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: is because almost no person can be one hundred percent consistent,

1064
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: and so when you try an exert us power based

1065
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: on quote unquote moral terms like in I don't know,

1066
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: Ukraine and then you don't do anything. Whenever somebody does

1067
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: the exact same thing, whenever it's your ally, like in

1068
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: Yemen or in Israel, well then you look like an idiot.

1069
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: So it's better to just be honest about things from

1070
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: day one, which you know, look the Jaman Kushogi thing,

1071
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: they only cared because it was Trump who was the president,

1072
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: and Jared Kushner and then Biden becomes the president and

1073
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: goes in fist bumps MBS and they don't say anything

1074
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: because it's all fake. It's all just theater that they

1075
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 2: want everybody to indulge in. So it would actually be

1076
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: better if people were honest about their critiques about what

1077
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: they were doing. But you know, if that were true,

1078
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: then I guess we wouldn't even have jobs as journalists.

1079
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what the point is.

1080
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in this period following October seventh, according

1081
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: to the Committee to Protect Journalists, more reporters have been

1082
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: killed in this period than any conflict that they've kept

1083
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: track of since nineteen ninety two. For reporters without borders,

1084
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: it's the deadliest conflict for reporters since the start of

1085
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: the twenty first century, out doing the wars in I Rock, Afghanistan, Yemen,

1086
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, with Israeli forces killing war journalists in a

1087
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: matter of weeks than they had slain over the entire

1088
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: period from two thousand to last year. You've also seen

1089
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: direct targeting of fifty different media outlets in terms of

1090
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: partial or total destruction of the premises of where their

1091
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: offices are. According to also to Reporters Without Borders in

1092
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: a complaint that they filed with the International Criminal Court

1093
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: claiming that Israel's killing of journalists constitute war crimes. So

1094
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: again to lay out the situation here, you've got satellite

1095
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: imagery block, you've got communications frequently blocked, especially during the

1096
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: most intense time periods, and then you have journalists that

1097
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: are targeted. There was actually journalist's family that was killed

1098
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: in Lebanon where she told her kids to play by

1099
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: the car so that the Israelis could see that the

1100
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,959
Speaker 1: were you know that these were children, and the car

1101
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: was blown up and they were killed in Lebanon. So

1102
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,919
Speaker 1: the other effort that you see is because there are

1103
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 1: mostly only Palestinians who are in Gaza at this point,

1104
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, the very little in terms of international press

1105
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: allowed in except unless you're CNN and you have to

1106
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 1: like submit your report before you put it on air.

1107
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: There's also an effort to claim, well, these aren't really

1108
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: journal they don't really count because they're Palestinian as well,

1109
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: to try to, you know, undermine the extent of the

1110
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: number of people who have been killed here. So yeah,

1111
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: complete silence from you know, Biden, all these people who

1112
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 1: when it was Trump and he was berating the press

1113
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: or whatever, Jim Acosta, remember that whole saga saga, and

1114
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: they were so up at arms. Oh, I got the

1115
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: freedom of the press and journalism and it's so important,

1116
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I mean we've always knew they

1117
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: were full of it because they didn't care about Julian Assange, Right,

1118
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: how about that?

1119
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 4: And then with Jamal Cook Shogi same thing. There was

1120
00:54:58,560 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 4: a big show of this.

1121
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: Biden said on the campaign trail like We're going to

1122
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: make Saudi Arabia pariah. Okay, how did that work out?

1123
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: And now you have the most journalists killed in a

1124
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: single conflict since it's been tracked, and total crickets. So yeah,

1125
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: Blincoln got asked about this actually, and he did just

1126
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: like a little waxing poetic about the importance of journalism

1127
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: and then just kept it I haven't really heard about

1128
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: those reports and just kept it moving along.

1129
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 4: So it just shows you how full of it they've

1130
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 4: always been.

1131
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 3: For the course, I think.

1132
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: At the same time, democratic lawmakers here in the US

1133
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 2: starting to be faced with some protests reminiscent of some

1134
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 2: times during the Iraq War.

1135
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 3: First up was Senator John Fetterman, Let's take a listen.

1136
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 8: Don't plus that children who passed on five thousand plus.

1137
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 5: That civilian You will say.

1138
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 9: I don't care.

1139
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 4: Thentman says this, The.

1140
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 9: Joke is on you. I had a stroke. I can't

1141
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 9: fully understand what you're saying.

1142
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 2: All right, I got a handed to him. That was

1143
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 2: a clever response, but does show you that is beginning

1144
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 2: to happen. Senator Corey Booker was faced with something similar.

1145
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 2: Here's what happened there.

1146
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 10: There are so many places in our country right now

1147
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 10: where people want to make sure that we have this

1148
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 10: is what makes America great, the power to protest, the

1149
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:49,240
Speaker 10: power to have free speech, the power of America.

1150
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: So a column ae from what we've been able to

1151
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: discern is like when you vote straight ticket. So that's

1152
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: he was there stumping for some sort of election, so

1153
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 2: that's what he was doing there. It also comes with

1154
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: some consternation here in Washington. Let's go and put this

1155
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. There's a descent cable that

1156
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: is beginning to circulate within the State Department. US diplomats

1157
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: are slamming Israel policy in leaked memo. For those who

1158
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: don't know, inside the State Department, they have something called

1159
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 2: a descent channel where you're allowed, if you disagree with

1160
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State, to send a memo via this

1161
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: classified internal system. Obviously, almost every single time the people

1162
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: who organize it end up leaking the descent cables. But

1163
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: it's supposedly supposed to be away where you can voice

1164
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: internal descent and to actually challenge administration policy.

1165
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 4: The bureaucrat.

1166
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the dumbest ever.

1167
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 2: It's the dumbest thing, especially because they never stay secret,

1168
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: so every time somebody does one, they just immediately leak it.

1169
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 3: Opinion.

1170
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: There's a strongly voice demandem memo and opinion inside the

1171
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: State Department. That does show you some consternation which is

1172
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: brewing amongst US diplomats. Most of the people who have

1173
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: been assigned onto it and the organized of it are

1174
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: from the Middle East Desk. They say, quote, we must

1175
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: publicly criticize Israel's violation of international norms, such as failure

1176
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: to limit offensive operations to legitimate military targets. When Israel

1177
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: supports settler of violence and illeal land sizers or employees

1178
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: excessive use of force against Palestinians, we must communicate publicly

1179
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: this goes against our American values, so that Israel does

1180
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: not act with impunity. The memo then mark sensitive but unclassified,

1181
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: so unclear. Also they marked it that way so they

1182
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: could leak it, just to be clear. Anyway, it does

1183
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 2: show you, Crystal, there's signs of dissent brewing across the

1184
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: United States. But we should also be honest that you know,

1185
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: a lot of people still support Israel, although you know,

1186
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 2: position of ceasefire is very high. I'm not sure if

1187
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: that would stand if everybody like fully were to be

1188
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 2: articulated and bombarded with propaganda on all sides.

1189
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 4: But propaganda can change minds, that is.

1190
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 3: True, exactly so, But I don't actually.

1191
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: Astonished, Stay, I mean, there is already a lot of propaganda,

1192
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: and the numbers we've seen or two thirds of people

1193
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: are like stop the killing. I mean it's just such

1194
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: a like normy natural react to be like, yes, we

1195
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: want to cease fire. We see all these horrific images

1196
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: of babies and women and kids being pulled out of

1197
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: the rubble, like stop the bombing is such a just

1198
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: kind of human reaction that I think it would be

1199
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: very hard to move people off of that because of

1200
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: just how horrifying images are that are coming out at

1201
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: this point.

1202
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 4: And that doesn't mean.

1203
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: That people like hate Israel or even you know that

1204
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: they share my critique of is there any of that,

1205
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: They just are reacting to the horror of the violence

1206
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: that they see unfolding on the ground. And so, you know,

1207
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: it's really something when you think about all of the

1208
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: rhetoric that we've heard from democratic politicians about Ukraine and

1209
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: about democracy and about barbarism and you know, accusing justifiably

1210
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: by the way, accusing Putin of war crimes, and then

1211
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: you see refugee camps bombed, ambulances, hospitals bombed, schools bombed

1212
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: like this massive toll in a short period of time

1213
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: taken on women and civilians and children, and they have

1214
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: nothing to say. So yeah, for these politicians having to

1215
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: be confronted face to face with people who are calling

1216
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: for a ceasefire, who are putting in their face their

1217
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: own hypocrisy based on their previous statements. You know, it's

1218
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: something to see. And this was not even the first

1219
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: time that Fetterman has been confronted.

1220
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 4: Face to face.

1221
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: There was a video that went viral of a lawyer

1222
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: in one of his constituents, somebody who said, listen, I

1223
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: voted for you, you know, I believe you're a nice guy.

1224
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,439
Speaker 1: But he was also pushing him on a ceasefire, and

1225
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: he was shoved aggressively. Yeah, he was dragged away by

1226
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: someone who I think was part of Fetterman's like security

1227
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: detail or whatever.

1228
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 4: Really aggressive response.

1229
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: Of course, as we covered yesterday here in DC, massive

1230
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: protests in favor of a ceasefire, largest anti war demonstration

1231
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: that we have seen since the Iraq War, certainly the

1232
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: largest pro Palestine march that we have ever had on

1233
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: US soil. So you can see the way that this

1234
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 1: is really escalating. And you know, the Biden administration they

1235
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: think like, oh, they'll get over it, this will die down,

1236
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I don't think so, guys. This one,

1237
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: there's this has really viscerally touched in her with young people,

1238
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,439
Speaker 1: with Arab Americans, and with muscle and Americans. I've never

1239
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: seen a collapse in polling support like what we saw

1240
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: from Arab Americans, in particular in this recent poll that

1241
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: came out you now have in Michigan. I just saw

1242
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: a poll that I think it was Arab Americans are

1243
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: actually supporting RFK Junior at a higher rate than Biden

1244
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: at this point in the state of Michigan.

1245
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 3: Just does to screw you.

1246
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 4: Just absolutely, and let's be clear.

1247
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: RFK Junior is terrible on this issue from my I mean,

1248
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: he's all the way in one hundred percent with Israel,

1249
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. But as to screw you, it

1250
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: shows you how deep the upset goes. We had another

1251
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to show you that I also

1252
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: think is quite remarkable.

1253
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

1254
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: Pro Palestinian activists are blocking a ship from loading weapons

1255
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: and supplies being sent to Israel. This is the port

1256
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: of Tacoma in Washington, so you have a huge protest

1257
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: there to try to block one of the shipments of

1258
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: arms to Israel. I saw something similar happening, I believe

1259
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: with DOC workers in Spain. So this is a bit

1260
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: of an international effort. But you know this is only

1261
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: there is no end in sight in terms of the

1262
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: Israeli bombing campaign in Gaza, and I think that this

1263
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: sort of protest and resistance is only going to be

1264
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: ramping up and only putting increasing pressure on this administration

1265
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: which is already floundering. Very possible, all right, So to

1266
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: turn a little bit more to domestic politics here, we

1267
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: had our former president Donald Trump in the court room

1268
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: yesterday testifying. Now this is with regards to that civil

1269
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: fraud trial in the state of New York and to

1270
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: all the backstory here. This was brought by Letitia James,

1271
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: she's Attorney General of New York. It all is focused

1272
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: on the valuations of his businesses, the way that he

1273
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: would inflate different asset values in order to secure a

1274
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 1: certain loan or in certain certainces, he would deflate the

1275
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: values in order to get off from his taxes. Effectively,

1276
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: they've already found that he committed fraud. This part now

1277
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: is just to figure out exactly how big the penalty is.

1278
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: Trump reported lived pretty wild in the stand. This is

1279
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: what the man himself had to say after his testimony.

1280
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 11: This is a case that should have never been brought up.

1281
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 11: It's a case that should be dismissed immediately. The fraud

1282
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 11: was on behalf of the court. The court was the

1283
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 11: fraud stir of this case. I don't have to be

1284
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 11: here for the most part, but.

1285
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 12: I surely do have to be here because I want

1286
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 12: to be.

1287
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,479
Speaker 11: Here because it's a scam and this is a case

1288
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 11: that should have never been brought and as the case

1289
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 11: that now should be dispissed.

1290
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 9: Everybody show what happened today.

1291
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 13: Everybody show what happened with this star witness who admitted

1292
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 13: that I never told him what he originally said I did.

1293
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 13: He admitted that he lied, and he has absolutely no

1294
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 13: credibility whatsoever.

1295
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 9: That's the only witness. And when you look.

1296
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 13: At the numbers, the full numbers that came out today

1297
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 13: from the New York Times and CBS, I'm sure the

1298
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 13: Times was not too happy, but people are sick and

1299
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 13: tired of what's happening.

1300
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 9: This is a sad I think it's a very sad

1301
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 9: day for America.

1302
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: Sad day for America. It's a scam case, never should

1303
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: have been brought. All kind of typical things you would

1304
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 1: expect Trump to say, there were no cameras in the courtroom,

1305
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: so it can just bring you what reporters say happened

1306
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: while the doors were closed. Put this up on the

1307
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: screen from Politico. They say, during this four hours on

1308
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: the windness stand, the former present lost his temper and

1309
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: attack the judge of the headline year is also amusing,

1310
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm not a windmill person. Trump takes the witness stand

1311
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: and doesn't break character in a series of outbursts. While testifying,

1312
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: Trump assailed to judge who is overseeing his civil fraud case.

1313
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: There was a lot of back in between them. The

1314
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: judge reportedly was beseeching Trump's lawyer to try to get

1315
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: him under control. He wasn't really answering the questions. He

1316
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: was just you know, berating the judge and doing his

1317
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: typical Trumpian thing. At one point, the judge told Trump's

1318
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: lawyer Chris Kayes, if you can't control him, I will.

1319
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: I will excuse him and draw every negative inference that

1320
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: I can. This is not a political rally, this is

1321
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: the courtroom, he told Trump's lawyer, ordering him to counsel

1322
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: his client to provide answers responsive to the question.

1323
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 4: So, Sager, you and I both saw.

1324
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: This analysis, which as best I can tell, is probably accurate.

1325
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: The ship has already sailed in terms of he, you know,

1326
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: committed some level of fraud. There is going to be

1327
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: some penalty. I would say, based on his conduct, it's

1328
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: probably going to be pretty significant. I don't think the

1329
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: judge was too impressed with his presentation here, but also

1330
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: it feels like this was more of again a political

1331
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: response than really a legal response. And I did see

1332
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: some analysis that indicated he undercut some of the defense

1333
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: that his team had prepared, and that his adult children,

1334
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: two of whom Eric and Donald Junior are both involved

1335
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: in this as well. They tried to say basically like

1336
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 1: we got advice from accountants, we really weren't involved in this.

1337
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: That was kind of their approach, and he did at

1338
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: points undercut that and admit that he was involved in

1339
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: the crafting of these valuations.

1340
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1341
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 2: So part of the issue is that one of the

1342
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 2: reasons why they are where they are right now is

1343
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 2: that their lawyers mishandled the case from the beginning in

1344
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 2: terms of having it a jury trial or not.

1345
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 3: So that was why they left it up to the

1346
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 3: judge itself.

1347
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 2: And we're going to make the declaration of fraud, which

1348
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: is why you're saying here in terms of the commitment

1349
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 2: in the eyes of the law around fraud about the

1350
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 2: overvaluation of assets. I know everyone was talking previously about

1351
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: the Marra a Lago thing, but actually goes deeper in

1352
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 2: terms of the mishandling actually on the Trump side of it.

1353
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 2: So whenever it comes to Trump himself and what he's

1354
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 2: actually going to be able to do, I think he's

1355
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 2: taking the correct course, which is, if you've already lost

1356
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 2: in terms of the legal minutia, what you do is

1357
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 2: you attack Letitia James and make this political, which it

1358
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: obviously is political. She literally ran on in going after him,

1359
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 2: so obviously that is going to play into it. She's

1360
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 2: even like, in my opinion, look, I think this is

1361
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 2: too much. She's like subtweeting him while the active case

1362
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 2: is going on.

1363
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1364
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 4: It's not like he's conducting himself.

1365
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 2: She's the attorney general, he's not the chief he's not

1366
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 2: the chief law.

1367
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 4: Enforcement president future president.

1368
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: Okay, sure, I'm just saying he's not the one who's

1369
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 2: prosecuting her. It's vice versa. So maybe you shouldn't be

1370
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 2: doing that. But obviously that's how you get votes, and

1371
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 2: you're just validating that people think it's political, which it

1372
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 2: obviously is political.

1373
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 3: I don't actually know.

1374
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 2: I still I've been mostly checked out on the merits

1375
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 2: of this particular one because, I mean, while I think

1376
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 2: it will have an impact on him personally, yeah, and

1377
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 2: will significantly impact some of his decision making in the future,

1378
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 2: who knows.

1379
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:48,479
Speaker 3: I mean, don't forget.

1380
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 2: I believe he made himself alone in the last days

1381
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 2: of the twenty sixteen campaign.

1382
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 3: He probably won't have to do that again.

1383
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 2: In terms of his own personal well, this is far

1384
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 2: more personal for him and for is like family future. Wednesday,

1385
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: Evaga will take the stands, will be the final Trump

1386
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 2: family member to do so, and then we'll get some

1387
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: sort of determination. But this is not going to have

1388
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 2: the impact that I think most people think. Like the

1389
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 2: big convictions or legal problems for Trump are all going

1390
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 2: to be around his conduct on January sixth, the federal

1391
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 2: case and specifically the Georgia I still think George is.

1392
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 3: One of the worst ones for him.

1393
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 2: And then classified documents obviously is that's open and shut politically.

1394
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: You're right, I don't think that this like, no matter

1395
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 1: how big the penalty is or whatever it does, strike

1396
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: to the core of his whole persona though, because I

1397
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: mean this is really like a potential existential threat to

1398
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: his New York business operations. They've already suspended his business licenses.

1399
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about some of his most iconic properties,

1400
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: Trump Tower, right, could be forced into other hands or

1401
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: sold off by the stay. I mean, that's the sort

1402
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: of penalties that we're talking about here. What I see

1403
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: is significant about this is two things. Number One, you

1404
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: see the way that his antics, which work very well

1405
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: in the political arena, don't work at all in the

1406
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: legal arena. I mean, this is not going to sway

1407
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,839
Speaker 1: the judge. Quite to the contrary, I think it probably

1408
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: makes it more likely that the judge is going to

1409
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: penalize him even more aggressively than he was likely to before.

1410
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 4: So the things that he.

1411
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: Does where we have this sense of like oh teflon

1412
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: don and wriggles himself out of every jam, doesn't work

1413
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. And related to that, you know, we

1414
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: do always have this joke about like, oh, the walls

1415
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 1: are finally closed again. Well, this may be the first

1416
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: time where there really is some actual penalty and consequence

1417
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: for his actions and for the way that he has

1418
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: conducted himself.

1419
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 4: And I don't think it's going to be insignificant.

1420
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of his personal situation and his

1421
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: wealth and what it's going to mean for him and

1422
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 1: his business. I think it could be quite significant. But

1423
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: to your point, Sager, you know, the bigger in terms

1424
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: of the political questions. And again this is a civil case,

1425
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: so keep that in minds different from a criminal case

1426
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,520
Speaker 1: as well, but in terms of the larger political questions.

1427
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: We covered that New York Times poll yesterday that had

1428
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: Trump up on Biden in five of six swing states,

1429
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 1: So devastating picture for Joe Biden for his reelect. There's

1430
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: a lot of panic over that. We're going to get

1431
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: to that in just a moment. However, there is one

1432
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 1: piece of this that the Biden team might be able

1433
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: to take comfort in.

1434
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 4: Put this up on the screen.

1435
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: As of right now, only thirty nine percent of voters

1436
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: in that New York Times Ciana pol actually think that

1437
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: Trump is going to be convicted.

1438
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 4: But if he is convicted, it really changes.

1439
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: The electoral landscape again, at least based on this poll,

1440
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: and people are not always good at predicting what they

1441
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: would do in certain circumstances.

1442
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 4: So I think that's important to keep in mind.

1443
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: However, if you just are asking Trump versus Biden, Trump

1444
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: is up by eleven in Nevada. If you say, okay,

1445
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: but what if Trump is convicted, it moves to Biden

1446
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: plus twelve. Okay, from Trump plus eleven to Biden plus twelve.

1447
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: In Arizona, it goes from Trump plus five to Biden

1448
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 1: plus five. In Georgia, it goes from Trump plus six

1449
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: to Biden plus twelve. In Michigan, Trump plus five to

1450
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: Biden plus twelve. In Pennsylvania, Trump plus four to Biden

1451
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: plus four. And in Wisconsin, this was the one state

1452
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 1: Biden had an egine Biden plus two to Biden plus fourteen.

1453
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: So this is a huge wild card hanging over this

1454
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 1: whole thing.

1455
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 4: And again, we're not.

1456
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: Talking about the civil case that he's testifying in right now.

1457
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: We're talking about those criminal cases. The Document's case, the

1458
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: one with regard to January sixth and stealing the election,

1459
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: also the Georgia case, which is also about fake elector

1460
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: schemes and stealing the election. Those are the ones that

1461
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: we're talking about here in terms of a criminal conviction,

1462
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: And I will say Zager that we did see when

1463
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: we did our Republican focus group, we did see some

1464
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: evidence of that. Were even people who were in the

1465
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 1: room who were maybe not like the biggest Trump fans,

1466
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 1: but they were generally on board with him, and you know,

1467
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 1: they were good with him and certainly going to vote

1468
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: for him, et cetera. When they were asked, Okay, well,

1469
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: what if he's convicted, it was like, oh, I don't

1470
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: think I could do that.

1471
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I just don't know. It's one

1472
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 2: of those where people say a lot of things. Also,

1473
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 2: what does conviction mean? Which conviction are we talking about Georgia,

1474
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 2: we're talking about the Feds were talking about the classified

1475
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 2: documents case, like we're talking about they each one of

1476
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 2: these could be spun or Also what's the sentence. I mean,

1477
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 2: if he's sentenced to jail, I feel like that's one thing.

1478
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 2: If he's sentenced to parole, I think that's another thing.

1479
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 2: If it's a what if it's a mistrial and not

1480
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 2: even you know, a hung jury or a dismiss case.

1481
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: There's so many different scenarios I could go down. But

1482
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: something I have warned about previously is I was like, look,

1483
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,920
Speaker 2: there are a lot of normy people in this country

1484
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 2: who if you say he was convicted by a court,

1485
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 2: they'd be like, wow, Okay, he was actually convicted, and

1486
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 2: they're like, that means he did something wrong. Now, as

1487
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 2: we all know, we don't knows the justice system can

1488
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 2: be very difficult and different sometimes about how that all goes.

1489
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: Most people do, not, however, mistrusted justice system enough to

1490
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 2: say that if someone does get convicted, they think that

1491
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 2: they probably did something and they could affect their overall vote.

1492
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 2: I think that's what's in the poll, and it does

1493
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: just show us that Trump will suffer something we don't

1494
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 2: know they sent to which, yeah, it doesn't count them

1495
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 2: out entirely, but also it's not good to me.

1496
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 4: It's more question of timing.

1497
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, whether or not he would actually be convicted. I mean, listen,

1498
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: he'd have to run the table in all of these cases.

1499
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 4: I just don't see it.

1500
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 1: Especially think about the document's case, right, Like, what even

1501
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: is his defense at this point, They're not even really

1502
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: trying to amount of defense. It's just taking the political

1503
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: tactic hoping they can hang on, hoping they can exhaust

1504
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: the appeals process too. Keep that in mind before voters

1505
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: actually go to the polls. So I think Soger, it's

1506
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,520
Speaker 1: not just this normy sense of like, well, it was convicted,

1507
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: so he definitely did something wrong. I think there's also

1508
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: just a sense of embarrassment, like, yeah, I'm sure we're

1509
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: going to elect an American president who's been who's like

1510
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: a you know, criminally convicted of a variety of crimes.

1511
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: That's just humiliating as a country to do. And I

1512
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: think a lot of people have a revulsion to that.

1513
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm I am just very reluctant to

1514
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 1: make any predictions about how this general election is going

1515
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: to go. You've got Biden, who has extraordinarily low approval writings.

1516
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 1: You've got you know, now involved in two increasingly unpopular

1517
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: and brutal wars. You've got you know, economic concerns that

1518
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: are overriding potentially everything else. You've got the wild card

1519
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: of RFK Junior, who has a lot of money in

1520
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 1: the bank and who you know is a Kennedy and

1521
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: is garnering significant support in these polls. You've got Trump

1522
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: out there and these criminal you know, possible convictions hanging

1523
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: over his head, and the question of the timeline and

1524
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 1: how that's all going to work out, and then you

1525
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: have the things that we don't even know about that

1526
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: are going to unf over the course of the coming year.

1527
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 1: So all I would argue for is a lot of

1528
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: humility in terms of, you know, how this is all

1529
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 1: going to shake out and what it's going to look

1530
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: like and who's going to have the edge. I could

1531
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,839
Speaker 1: see everything from a Trump blowout to a Biden blowout

1532
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: at this point, yeah, and any outcome in between. And

1533
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: I think this is the this is he convicted? Is

1534
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: he sentenced to prison? Is one of the biggest wild

1535
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: cards that hangs out.

1536
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 4: There to the state.

1537
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, speaking of Biden and what's going on in terms

1538
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 2: of the fallout from that poll that showed him losing

1539
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 2: in five out of six states, there are several people

1540
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 2: who are now calling for him to just drop out.

1541
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

1542
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 2: This was in very I think coded language. David Axelrod,

1543
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 2: the chief political advisor to Barack Obama, kind of the

1544
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 2: architect of a lot of Obama's career, says, quote, it

1545
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: is very late to change horses. A lot will happen

1546
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: in the next year. That no one can predict, and

1547
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 2: Biden's team says his resolve to run is firm. His

1548
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,560
Speaker 2: divide defied conventional wisdom before, but this will send tremors

1549
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 2: of doubt through the party.

1550
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 3: Not bedwetting, but.

1551
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 2: A legitimate concern, saying it's a legitimate concern that he

1552
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 2: is losing. And he says the potus is justly proud

1553
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 2: of his accomplishments. Trump is dangerous, et cetera, et cetera.

1554
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: Only Joe Biden can take this decision. If he continues

1555
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 2: to run, he will be the nominee of the party.

1556
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 2: What he needs to decide is whether that is wise,

1557
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 2: whether it is his best interest or the countries strongly

1558
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 2: implying drop the hell out, Joe and let somebody.

1559
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 3: Else in there.

1560
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 2: And this was picked up on over at MSNBC where

1561
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 2: Joe Biden found himself with a little bit of a defense.

1562
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1563
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 6: This person said, well, look, it's the really surprised. David

1564
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,640
Speaker 6: Axelrod has consistently been a detractor of the Biden demonstration.

1565
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 3: What would you say?

1566
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 14: I would also argue, and I love acts, but he

1567
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 14: was also a detractor of the twenty twenty Biden campaign.

1568
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 14: I'm not surprised by this, but it's very disingenuous. Democrats,

1569
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 14: especially Democratic strategists know Republican strategists, one who was a

1570
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 14: professional political hell for reporters know. Joe Biden is the

1571
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 14: President of the United States of America. Therefore the head

1572
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 14: of the party that he is on the ticket of.

1573
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,600
Speaker 14: He is a Democrat, and if the President of the

1574
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 14: United States of America can is eligible to run for

1575
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 14: reelection and decides to do so, that's your nominee.

1576
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 12: Baby.

1577
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 14: That's how it works. I know that they that might

1578
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 14: not sound democratic, but that is the game that's not works.

1579
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 14: And so David Aislerod's comments are kind of crazy because

1580
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 14: Joe Biden did make his decision.

1581
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 3: He has started a reelection again. But was the right decision,

1582
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 3: that's the question.

1583
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 14: Well he made it though, so like what we look like,

1584
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 14: Joe Biden has been trying to be president since before

1585
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 14: I was boorn. Okay, he literally he's ran for running

1586
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 14: for president since nineteen eighty eight. The idea that he

1587
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 14: would get the presidency beat Donald Trump, vaccinate America, finally

1588
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 14: have infrastructure week make the largest investment in infrastructure since

1589
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 14: like the people that invented the interstate and he's not

1590
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 14: going to run for reelection.

1591
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 3: Oh man, that is I know, democratic.

1592
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 2: As Nate Silver put it, he goes, yeah, it's usually

1593
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,600
Speaker 2: that way because the vast majority of the people in

1594
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 2: the party want that person to run. The vast majority

1595
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 2: of the people in this party and in this country

1596
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 2: don't want him to run again.

1597
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 3: They think he's too freaking old.

1598
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 2: So in that case, then no, the traditional rules don't hold.

1599
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 2: It's not a given. It just has always been that

1600
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 2: way in the past because usually, at least a little bit,

1601
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 2: American politics was like.

1602
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 3: A relative meritocracy ish where.

1603
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 2: People got to know and to view these people and

1604
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 2: we're like, yeah, I support him, Okay, he wants to

1605
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,480
Speaker 2: run for an election. I mean, think about four Republicans

1606
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 2: were gangbusters to renominate George W.

1607
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:39,440
Speaker 3: Bush.

1608
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 2: The only time anyone had any doubt was Jimmy Carter,

1609
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,440
Speaker 2: and we went through a primary people got the opportunity

1610
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 2: to vote for Kennedy was bloodthirsty and it was tough,

1611
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 2: and Carter came out on the other side and guess what,

1612
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 2: he actually almost won the election. So it just goes

1613
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 2: to show you, like, in terms of how it would

1614
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 2: all look I think that The fact is is that

1615
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: when you have such a low intra party approval rating,

1616
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 2: you have to subject yourself to that primary just to

1617
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: prove that you do deserve it, I mean, instead of.

1618
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 3: Like this no bless oblige that you have right now.

1619
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 1: It is amazing how she just comes on. So she's like, well,

1620
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't sound democratic, but that's just the game.

1621
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,720
Speaker 4: That's how it was, and it's like, okay, yeah, I.

1622
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: Mean, listen, I mean, and obviously that is the game

1623
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: because that is the way they've set it up. They

1624
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: rigged the primary state order to make it most favorable

1625
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 1: to Joe Biden.

1626
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 4: They made sure there were absolutely no primaries.

1627
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 1: They were working the phones to make sure to enforce

1628
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: discipline on everybody. And really the key moment for them

1629
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: was when the midterms went better than expected.

1630
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 4: Yes, I think.

1631
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 1: If it had been a Republican red wave midterms, you

1632
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 1: might have had Gavin Newsom or somebody who jumps in

1633
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 1: the race. And of course Biden does have primary combatitors.

1634
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 1: Mary and Williamson's been in for quite a while. Djank

1635
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: Huger just jumped in. Of course, there's questions about whether

1636
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: he's constitutionally eligible Dean Phillips is now now just gotten in,

1637
01:20:01,479 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: but they've effectively made it so that there's no awareness

1638
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 1: that there's any sort of real democratic process playing out.

1639
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 1: And that's how they want it, because they know that

1640
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,400
Speaker 1: he's incredibly vulnerable, and they also know that he can't

1641
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: actually stand up to the scrutiny of a primary process.

1642
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 1: I think they'd be less fearful of it if they

1643
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: thought that he could get on a debate stage and

1644
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 1: just absolutely rock everybody.

1645
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 4: But they know that that's not the case.

1646
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: So I just want to underscore David Axelrod, who is

1647
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: seen as one of the wise stages of electoral politics

1648
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,360
Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party, for him to come out and

1649
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 1: very strongly suggest that Biden is staying in because of

1650
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 1: his own personal ambition versus what is in the best

1651
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: interests of the nation is really, really something and everyone

1652
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: is going to take note of that.

1653
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 4: Now.

1654
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 1: Do I think that that means Joe Biden is going

1655
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 1: to do what he should do, which is step aside

1656
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: make room for a real, actual, dynamic primary process.

1657
01:20:58,200 --> 01:20:59,599
Speaker 4: Of course not. And that'smon.

1658
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:01,640
Speaker 1: Sanders is one hundred percent correct when she was like,

1659
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: this man's been running for president since nineteen eighty eight,

1660
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:05,799
Speaker 1: and you think he's going to give.

1661
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 4: Up the brass ring. Now, she's right about that.

1662
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: There's no way that he's going to As long as

1663
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: he has one breath left in his body, he is

1664
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: going to hold on to the presidency because it has

1665
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: been his lifelong ambition and he doesn't actually care about

1666
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: whether he's the best person at this point to try

1667
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 1: to defeat Trump again. And by the way, I think

1668
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: he was he has genuinely convinced himself that he actually

1669
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:30,840
Speaker 1: is that person who would be best positioned to defeat

1670
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:31,679
Speaker 1: Trump another time.

1671
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 4: Just to remind you, guys of the.

1672
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 1: Details of that poll that we covered yesterday from the

1673
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: New York Times, so we've been talking a lot about

1674
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 1: what was really really noteworthy and shows you how far

1675
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 1: he's fallen. Is even Kamala Harris performed better than he

1676
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 1: did in that poll.

1677
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 4: That's a first.

1678
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 1: Consistently across the board when we've seen polling like this

1679
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 1: in the past, Biden has done not that great, but

1680
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: it's always been a little better than Kamala. Now in

1681
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 1: this one poll, at least, for Kamala even her to

1682
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: be doing all better than him is really something. And

1683
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 1: then the you know, theoretical generic unnamed democrat was like

1684
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 1: blowing everybody out of the water. But of course that's

1685
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: not the way reality works. In reality, you have an

1686
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: actual named person who is subject to all of the

1687
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: attacks and slings and arrows of political campaign. So you know,

1688
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't quite work out that way. But I guess

1689
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 1: Dean Phillips will like that particular number because he is

1690
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: kind of the quintessential generic unnamed Democrat.

1691
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 2: There is no such thing as generic, just an annoying metric.

1692
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,160
Speaker 2: I'm not even really sure if it's useful at this point,

1693
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 2: because you can never separate personality. Let's put this one

1694
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 2: up there on the screen as well. Bill Crystal, you know,

1695
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 2: the prominent neocon former Republican, saying it's time President Biden

1696
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 2: has served our country. Well, I'm confident he'll do so

1697
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 2: for the next year, but it's time for an act

1698
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: of personal sacrifice and public spirit. It's time to pass

1699
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:48,639
Speaker 2: the torch to the next generation. It's time for Biden

1700
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,960
Speaker 2: to announce he won't run in twenty twenty four. And

1701
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 2: then you also had Primilla Jiapoul on MSNBC Jensaki Show

1702
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 2: saying that she was worried about the election let's take

1703
01:22:59,160 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 2: a listen.

1704
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 8: I will tell you this is the first time, Jen,

1705
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 8: that I have felt like the twenty twenty four election

1706
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 8: is in great trouble for the president and for our

1707
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 8: democratic control, which is essential.

1708
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 3: The first time.

1709
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:13,719
Speaker 2: Well, if that's the first time in you're an idiot,

1710
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 2: but maybe it's the first time that you're willing to

1711
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: admit it on television. Anyway, I think the point being

1712
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 2: that clearly the bat signal is out, you're allowed to

1713
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 2: talk about it.

1714
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 9: Now.

1715
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:24,679
Speaker 3: We'll see what they do. We all know what they're

1716
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 3: going to do, which is that they're just going to

1717
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:26,759
Speaker 3: keep Joe Biden.

1718
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they'll see how it works out for

1719
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,639
Speaker 1: and then they'll pretend like this this conversation ever happened,

1720
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: And how dare you question his abilities or you know,

1721
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: any of that and be totally shocked and find a

1722
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 1: litany of people to blame if he loses that do

1723
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 1: not involve themselves or Joe Biden himself.

1724
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 4: There you go, all right, We had to update you

1725
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 4: on a change of heart, change of.

1726
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: Perspective from c NBC's Jim Gramer, who you'll recall and

1727
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,280
Speaker 1: will play some of this in a minute, was just

1728
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,679
Speaker 1: losing his mind over the president of the United Auto

1729
01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 1: Worker Sean Fain as they were getting ready to strike

1730
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: the Big three automakers, and while that strike was ongoing, well,

1731
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 1: apparently now he thinks Sean Fain is actually just incredible, brilliant,

1732
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: He's a strategic genius. Let's take a listen to what

1733
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 1: Jim Kramer has to say.

1734
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 5: That I think that the UAW was underestimated Paul Way

1735
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 5: because Fain just beat them everywhere. It was very much

1736
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 5: grill action, was very smart. They were completely uh, they

1737
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 5: were out gained at every turn. I mean it was

1738
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 5: almost like there were they were and Fame was a

1739
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,480
Speaker 5: great NFL coach who really figured out all the weaknesses

1740
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 5: of the other team and just came in and blew

1741
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:38,800
Speaker 5: them away. And they were blitzing.

1742
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 3: They were doing everything right.

1743
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 5: I mean they had like linebacker and quarter blitches and

1744
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 5: safety blitches, and you know, they like the other guys

1745
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 5: like the like I love I.

1746
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 3: Love Farley and I love Barr, you know, you know,

1747
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 3: and I think that they were wow what happened?

1748
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 5: They were in the wow what happened camp, and you

1749
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:57,440
Speaker 5: know when the game.

1750
01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 3: Was over, it was just a real beatdown.

1751
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,440
Speaker 1: I love when He's like, the UAW was really underestimated.

1752
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: It's like, oh really, by who by hoo Jim. You

1753
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 1: will recall this is the guy who was like, oh,

1754
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: they should just the automakers should just ship all their

1755
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,040
Speaker 1: jobs to Mexico. That would really show the auto workers.

1756
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: He was saying, Sean Fain is you know, this is

1757
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: class war and it's shocking to say, and saying Sean

1758
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:23,720
Speaker 1: Fain is a Marxist, et cetera, et cetera. Let's take

1759
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: a listen to what he was saying previously.

1760
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 5: I want you to compare the labor negotiations here to

1761
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 5: the ones in auto where I think there's going to

1762
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:32,799
Speaker 5: be a strike and I think.

1763
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 3: It's gonna be horrible.

1764
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 9: You're making that call September.

1765
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 3: Fourteen, I think they're going to strike.

1766
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 5: This the Chauvain, the guy who runs UAW, I find

1767
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 5: him frightened.

1768
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 2: And Teamster's ups didn't give you any solid.

1769
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 3: Teams turned out to be get a good deal.

1770
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 5: Teams's strongally very powerful union rich youan, but the the

1771
01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 5: UAW leader one there was a contestant very boot between

1772
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 5: the company the union that wants to work with the

1773
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 5: autos together to try to preserve some jobs and give

1774
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 5: the elder people a good, good pay. And then this

1775
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 5: man Sean who is just talking about capitalism and the

1776
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,959
Speaker 5: nature of capitalism and how it's really hurt workers.

1777
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 3: This is very Walter Ruther language.

1778
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,599
Speaker 5: It's it's the kind of language that when we when

1779
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:33,840
Speaker 5: we had in this country, will take you down if

1780
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 5: you don't play ball. That's the language I'm hearing for

1781
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,759
Speaker 5: uaw and look, I mean it's the kind of language

1782
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 5: where you just say, you know what, we should have

1783
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:42,960
Speaker 5: built all our evs in Mexico.

1784
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 3: It's that bad.

1785
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 5: I don't think people are paying enough attention the man

1786
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 5: is I'm not saying he's irrational. I'm saying he was

1787
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 5: elected sure in order to make it so that there's

1788
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 5: a very short week to find benefit back. And then

1789
01:26:56,360 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 5: the notion that that we're fat cats. The shareholders are

1790
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 5: fat cats and have been overly rewarded. We haven't seen

1791
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 5: this as pleased class warfare. And it's very shocking to

1792
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:10,479
Speaker 5: hear a class class very shocking, very shocking.

1793
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 4: There's going to be a start. I think it's going

1794
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 4: to be horrible.

1795
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this gets to also, there was so much

1796
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 1: especially from him, like oh, this is going to be devastating.

1797
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 1: Car prices are going to go through the roof, and

1798
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: the economy is going to a crater.

1799
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 4: And now he's like, oh, that was great. Sean Fayne

1800
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:25,719
Speaker 4: did a great job, workers got a good deal.

1801
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: Look at him, he's an amazing quarterback, brilliant NFL coach.

1802
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: They were doing everything out there, they were making all

1803
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 1: the right plays.

1804
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 4: A little bit of a change of heart.

1805
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a complete change it also, I guess we

1806
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,519
Speaker 2: should all. I don't know if it's a victory, because

1807
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 2: you don't really really want Kramer on your other side.

1808
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 2: So if I were Faine, I would want him to

1809
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 2: just continue worried. But I guess he doesn't care because

1810
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 2: he's bathing in victory now at this point. In a

1811
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,599
Speaker 2: certain sense, I mean, it's heartening, right, It's a good

1812
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,679
Speaker 2: thing to see somebody actually admit that they were completely wrong.

1813
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 2: Although I'm not really sure he admitted it. He was

1814
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 2: just like, man, he kind of came out the gate.

1815
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 2: But we wanted to bring everybody a very rare Kramer

1816
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 2: of actually admitting or at least saying that somebody who

1817
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:11,480
Speaker 2: we very much underestimated, very obviously won against all these CEOs.

1818
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and you know they are continuing.

1819
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 4: We covered Toyota.

1820
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: Looks like they gave their workers directly in response to this.

1821
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:24,879
Speaker 1: Their autoworkers arrays there are now union efforts ongoing at TESLA.

1822
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: Fine is calling on other unions to align their contract

1823
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,880
Speaker 1: end dates with their end date, which is twenty twenty eight,

1824
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:33,800
Speaker 1: to try to set up a potential general strike.

1825
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 4: So some ways this is just the beginning.

1826
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:37,840
Speaker 1: I think we'll be hearing a lot more from Sean Fain,

1827
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 1: and I'm sure Jim Kramer will have more changes of

1828
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 1: heart along the way.

1829
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 2: That's right, all right, we got a great guest standing

1830
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:43,679
Speaker 2: by Jamils Coleman.

1831
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 3: Let's get to it. Joining us now is j Miles.

1832
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 2: Coleman is the associate editor at the Center for what

1833
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:55,200
Speaker 2: is it the Center for Politics at Sabato's Crystal Ball,

1834
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 2: no relation as the joke that we always make here,

1835
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 2: Ja Miles is here to join us. He's going to

1836
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,360
Speaker 2: talk to us about these upcoming elections. Let's go and

1837
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. We've got a

1838
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,600
Speaker 2: lot for him to go ahead and break down for

1839
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:12,480
Speaker 2: us places to watch in Kentucky, Mississippi, Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

1840
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:12,799
Speaker 3: Miles.

1841
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 2: We talked a little bit about Virginia yesterday, So why

1842
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:17,800
Speaker 2: don't we start with Kentucky, which arguably is one of

1843
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 2: the more important races in the country. Have got a

1844
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 2: gubernatorial race there going on, give us a lay of

1845
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 2: the land, the polls, where things are, and what you

1846
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 2: we think may happen.

1847
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 12: Yeah, So in Kentucky, it is it's an interesting situation

1848
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 12: because usually national Poland's governor and Shah Rank says, the

1849
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 12: most popular Democratic governor anywhere. But you're basically why this

1850
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 12: race is so close because it's Kentucky. You know, this

1851
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 12: is a state that normally goes to the Republicans.

1852
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 9: Governor.

1853
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 12: She is probably a uniquely strong Democrat that it comes

1854
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,720
Speaker 12: from a very big political family there. His father was

1855
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 12: the governor about ten years studying ago. It seems like

1856
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 12: he's done everything right. Daniel Cameron, who's the who's the

1857
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 12: attorney general. It is known as a protege of Mitch McConnell.

1858
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 12: He's really tried to nationalize the race, basically trying to

1859
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 12: tie you basically say, you know, you may think and

1860
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 12: this year is a different type of Democrat, but you

1861
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 12: know he's really no different than Joe Biden. You know,

1862
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 12: usually our sense to this race is there were some

1863
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 12: polls out out earlier where this year was up very

1864
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 12: fairly comfortably. It seems like Cameron has closed that gap

1865
01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:43,480
Speaker 12: a bit. Now, part of that could be just Republicans

1866
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 12: or coming home to the Republican but my sentence this

1867
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,719
Speaker 12: year probably pulls this out by maybe two or three points.

1868
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 4: Gotcha.

1869
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,559
Speaker 1: And so if Cameron's trying to nationalize things, what are

1870
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,760
Speaker 1: some of the more local issues that the Seer is

1871
01:30:57,800 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 1: trying to put front and center.

1872
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,600
Speaker 12: Yeah, So since this year has been been the governor,

1873
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 12: he he was elected four years. As I go, Uh,

1874
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 12: Kentucky has gone through a lot of natural disasters. You know,

1875
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 12: He's made He's always talks about that there were some

1876
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 12: out in western Kentucky, there were some torn tornadoes out

1877
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:23,520
Speaker 12: in eastern k Kentucky.

1878
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:27,719
Speaker 9: They had some record of uh blooding.

1879
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 7: Uh.

1880
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 12: He always makes a point to go to those places

1881
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 12: because you know, really for Democrats in a lot of

1882
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 12: these red states, just going there, you.

1883
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 9: Know, out to these rural areas is half of the

1884
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 9: back uh Right.

1885
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:45,080
Speaker 12: So he talks about one one of the things his

1886
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 12: father did he was governor was medical expansion.

1887
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:52,360
Speaker 9: That's something he talks about. Okay, we need to kind

1888
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 9: of keep this going.

1889
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 12: Uh, we don't want to elect someone who's gonna take

1890
01:31:56,840 --> 01:31:57,639
Speaker 12: us back to.

1891
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 9: Basically to undo all all this stuff.

1892
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 2: So, myles, why don't we talk a little bit about Mississippi?

1893
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 2: Then that was another gubernatorial race Tate Reeves. Usually this

1894
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:11,360
Speaker 2: wouldn't really be a question, but out of the aftermath

1895
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 2: of scandal, maybe it is. Give us a sense of

1896
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 2: what's going on there.

1897
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 12: Yes, so Mississippi, you know, you would expect us the

1898
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 12: Republican to be a pretty strong position mayor.

1899
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 9: But Governor Tate Reeves four.

1900
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 12: Years as ago only one by four or five points.

1901
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 12: You know, he has a very you know, as Trump

1902
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 12: would say, he has a very high energy challenger and

1903
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 12: a Democratic name brand in Presley. He is a distant

1904
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 12: a distant relative of illness. So one thing I'm watching is, Okay, well,

1905
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 12: does the Presley name have any story.

1906
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 9: Of value in Mississipi? Pippy?

1907
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:55,719
Speaker 12: But you know that's uh, we we were just talking

1908
01:32:55,760 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 12: about medicaid expansion in the context of Kentucky. Uh, that's

1909
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 12: something President is running on, you know, more of a

1910
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 12: local type issue where because Mississippi is one of the

1911
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,759
Speaker 12: states that still hasn't expanded it, So that is something

1912
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 12: that president is trying to lack strong too. And you know,

1913
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 12: there have been some some scandals that Reeves has been

1914
01:33:20,040 --> 01:33:22,839
Speaker 12: tied to there, or there was this very big welfare

1915
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 12: scandal involving Brett Park. So that's my sense for that

1916
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:32,439
Speaker 12: race is So in Mississippi, uh, they.

1917
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 9: Have this new system where they have run offs, kind

1918
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 9: of like Georgia.

1919
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 12: And Mississippi is a state because it's about forty black

1920
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 12: by composition. Now, if you're a Democrat, you can probably

1921
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 12: get to forty tell you maybe forty five percent of

1922
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:53,200
Speaker 12: the vote pretty easily, but getting much past that it

1923
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,480
Speaker 12: is very hard because white voters.

1924
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 9: Are just so Republican there. So that's gonna be President's challenge, gotcha.

1925
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 1: Now? In Ohio, and of course all of these races,

1926
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,719
Speaker 1: what's been hanging over the political landscape is the reversal

1927
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 1: of Roe v. Wade and the dab's decision from the

1928
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 1: Supreme Court seems to have really chuced democratic turnout in

1929
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:13,800
Speaker 1: a lot of races. And in Ohio you actually have

1930
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:15,719
Speaker 1: an abortion issue on the ballot.

1931
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 4: Can you break that one down for us too?

1932
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 12: So basically this in Ohio basically established or constitutional right

1933
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:24,839
Speaker 12: to abortion.

1934
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 9: You know, as your.

1935
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 12: Viewers may well remember, earlier this year there there was

1936
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:35,720
Speaker 12: sort of a test run for this for and Republicans

1937
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:40,799
Speaker 12: tried to raise the threshold for these bad bou measure

1938
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:45,560
Speaker 12: to be accepted in anticipation for this abortion rights for

1939
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 12: random And you know, one of the things I've been

1940
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 12: kind of kind of tracking over the last year or

1941
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 12: so is since since Road was overturned last year, there

1942
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 12: have been eight referendums concerning abortion rights, and the pro

1943
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 12: abortion right side has won in all eight of those cases.

1944
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:14,719
Speaker 12: And you know, the states ranging from you as red

1945
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 12: as Kentucky in Montana to states as blue as Vermont

1946
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:20,560
Speaker 12: and cal California.

1947
01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 9: The one thing I'm one thing.

1948
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 12: I'd be interested in watching is it gets a little

1949
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 12: down into the down into the leeds. But oftentimes on

1950
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 12: these referendums, if you're a voter, it's oftentimes easier just

1951
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:39,400
Speaker 12: to vote no or whatever the politicians are proposing.

1952
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 9: Back in the early referendum in Ohio.

1953
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 12: The pro abortion side was no, basically no, we don't

1954
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:53,200
Speaker 12: find to raise up the threshold to pass forfendoms.

1955
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,760
Speaker 9: This time it's a little flip. The pro abortion right

1956
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 9: side is yet so small, but some and I'm looking

1957
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:04,040
Speaker 9: at it seems like the consensus is it's on track

1958
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:04,799
Speaker 9: to past.

1959
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 12: Although one thing I will know, it seems like the

1960
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 12: Republican governor of Ohio, right do you want, is fairly popular,

1961
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 12: He's been He's maybe a good messenger for the anti

1962
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 12: abortion right side just because the popular state Republicans.

1963
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 2: So my question, Miles for you is what are the

1964
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:31,080
Speaker 2: national indicators that you're looking at. So obviously Ohio is

1965
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 2: going to be one, what are some other margins and

1966
01:36:34,080 --> 01:36:36,040
Speaker 2: other things that could tell us a little bit about

1967
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:38,320
Speaker 2: what to expect in the next election a year from now.

1968
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's it's you know, it's kind of funny because

1969
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 12: none of these states are really in question next year.

1970
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 12: You know, I have no question Biden is probably going

1971
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 12: to carry the state of burb Twitch and next year

1972
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 12: he's probably com going to lose, you know, Kentucky.

1973
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 9: Ohio, Mississippi. But I would look at, you know, if.

1974
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:03,800
Speaker 12: Democrats, say, Virginia pulled up well in some of these

1975
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:09,440
Speaker 12: districts in the higher income suburbs. Probably the textbook example

1976
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 12: of that in Virginia is Senate District thirty one, which

1977
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 12: is up in Loudon County. That's that's had something like

1978
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:21,519
Speaker 12: a million buck some something like eleven million bucks spent

1979
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:26,280
Speaker 12: for legislative seam and think of types of voters who

1980
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:31,799
Speaker 12: Democrats have gained since that Trump emerald. It's basically Senate

1981
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 12: District thirty one. So if this is an area where

1982
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 12: Democrats hold up, well, that made me a good sign

1983
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:42,000
Speaker 12: for them going into twenty twenty twenty four. Sort Of

1984
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 12: on the flip side of that, one one of the

1985
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,240
Speaker 12: things that that Democrats still have to work on a

1986
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 12: bit is minority turnout in Virginia. We have a number

1987
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,840
Speaker 12: of legislative seats that have on my minority poppulations but

1988
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 12: are still competitive to so if Republicans win those that

1989
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:07,439
Speaker 12: may be assigned that Democrats have more work to do

1990
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 12: on that. Usually these trends don't happen in I elations.

1991
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 12: So if Democrats are still having problem next year with

1992
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:18,920
Speaker 12: minority turnout in Burber virgin.

1993
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 9: Yet, you know it may not matter.

1994
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,160
Speaker 12: But if they're having those same problems in Georgia and

1995
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 12: North Carolina state where it may matter, that would be key.

1996
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, we've got our marching orders things to

1997
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,720
Speaker 1: look for this evening, and I'm sure we all be

1998
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 1: following you on Twitter as well as the results come in. Miles,

1999
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:38,760
Speaker 1: is always so great to see you. Thank you for

2000
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:40,040
Speaker 1: helping break all of this down for us.

2001
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate it.

2002
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 2: We have a great counterpoint show for you all tomorrow Thursday.

2003
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 2: We've got a great guest. I think some of you

2004
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 2: are going to be enjoying. It will come after the

2005
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 2: GOP debate. We'll have breaking coverage on that and everything

2006
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 2: that's going on in Israel. Otherwise, we will see you

2007
01:38:54,520 --> 01:39:00,440
Speaker 2: all then.

2008
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: As became an ACTI