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The Colin Coward Podcast 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: presented by the Fan Duel Sports Book. Hi everybody, time 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: once again for the Friday Morning podcast. Alan ship Note 13 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: wrote the book Phil Just finished It. Great book on 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson, who has now moved to the live tour. 15 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: Very controversial, Alan shipnuk. He and Greg Norman do not 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: appear to get along. He'll be joining us in ten minutes. 17 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: First though, fake questions, real answers, stuff I want to 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: talk about but don't want to wait for you to 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: ask me. Dear Colin, doesn't The Kyler Murray contract news 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: perfectly sum up why he chose football over baseball. Yes, 21 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: it does. Years ago, when I lived in Manhattan Beach, 22 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: I would go down on Saturday mornings, didn't work, get 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, and I'd watched the surfers at 24 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: the pier. And I've talked about this once before. There 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: was almost like a business application to it that as 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: I was watching the best surfers, they were very choosy 27 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: on the waves. They would hop on. The better the surfer, 28 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: the fewer the ways. And it makes me think a 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: lot about life and about business. Be patient, but make 30 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: sure you grab the right wave, because it will do 31 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: a majority of the work for you, regardless of how 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: good a surfer you are. Football is a bigger wave 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: than baseball. I mean, Mike Trouts had one Subway commercial. 34 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: Does Mookie Bets have any? Shohe Otani have any? You 35 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: play football, you make so much money beyond the game 36 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: because the sport has so much juice, such enormous TV ratings. 37 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes has over fifteen companies. He's making six or 38 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: seven figures on It's not just that he can throw 39 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: a football. It's that the NFL is the big wave. 40 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: Let it carry you beyond the field. That's the difference. 41 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: Minor league baseball. It's anonymous, minor league balls, college football sooners. 42 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Everybody's watching. If you can choose baseball or football in 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: economics matter, Brother, it ain't close. Kyler Murray proving that, 44 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Dear Colin, former Patriot Asante Samuel says some players in 45 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: New England were brainwashed by taking less in the Patriot way. 46 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? That's a saucy question, 47 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. I don't think it's brainwashed, because I 48 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: don't believe the Patriots were a cult. It's called a 49 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: commitment to winning. Yes, in New England, you maybe take 50 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: a little less, not that much less. You're going to 51 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: be hard coached. They're going to ask you to make 52 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: some occasional sacrifices. Oh my, Most pro athletes live a 53 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: life in which their parents have made sacrifices for them, 54 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: their girlfriends have made sacrifices, maybe their wife and their 55 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: kids have made sacrifices, all to elevate the professional athlete. 56 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: It's okay if occasionally a professional athlete makes a sacrifice too. 57 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: And in New England, you were guaranteed virtually to win 58 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: your division, get a couple of home football games, end 59 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: up at minimum in the AFC Championship, giving you lots 60 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: of free marketing, promotion and validity. The bottom line is, 61 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: maybe it took less. It's sacrifice. Look how many people 62 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: sacrifice for pro athletes on their way to getting rich. 63 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: Dear Colin, Kirby Smart just signed a ten year, one 64 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve million dollars deal for Georgia. A lot 65 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: of money, right, great deal? Right, Actually it's not a 66 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: great contract. First of all, eleven million dollars a year 67 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: now is what the Georgia football job pays. But ten years, 68 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: if you look at their recruiting, isn't it realistic to 69 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: predict that Kirby Smart's going to win one or two 70 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: more national championships in the next six years. By the 71 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: end of this contract, he'll be wildly underpaid. What happens 72 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: if we get an expanded college football playoff, we will 73 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: and the revenues explode. I don't believe in signing long contracts. 74 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: The more talented you are, you want to get to 75 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: the market sooner ten years, twenty thirty two, you're going 76 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: to be surprised with players making eight ten million dollars 77 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: a year and twenty thirty two, the coach may make 78 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: twenty million dollars a year. He can be making half 79 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: of the top coaches sign shorter deals. Get back to 80 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: negotiating the more often the better. Dear Colin Hooshier, hypocrite 81 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: of the week, m right in my backyard, California Governor 82 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: Gavin neoss I see this all the time. People want 83 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: to enact change, they raise the fist in victory, and 84 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: then they don't expect a reaction to it. Gavin Newsom 85 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: was on the forefront nationally of creating the nil the 86 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: Name Image Likeness legislation we have now in college sports 87 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: empower the athlete. We're going to make college football a 88 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: pro model, all right. So UCLA said, yeah, just like 89 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: the pros, we're going to upgrade to a better conference. 90 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: That's what Stan Cronky did. He was in Saint Louis 91 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: and said, you know, I'm gonna break this deal and 92 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Los Angeles and make six times 93 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: as much annually than I do in Saint Louis. History 94 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: be damned. That's what UCLA said. Let's see we can 95 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: play Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, 96 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: huge Brands, or Washington State and Oregon State, and let's 97 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: be honest, nobody goes to those games. We're gonna do 98 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: the pro model. We're going to upgrade to more revenue. 99 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: So Gavin Newsom smug in creating the nil naive and 100 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: thinking people wouldn't react to it. UCLA and USC are 101 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: very much using a pro mindset. We're upgrading for revenue. 102 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: That's what owners do in professional sports. Used to be. 103 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: You can't leave your conference. These are allies. Texas Oklahoma 104 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: said I like the lettuce over in the South, and 105 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: USC and UCLA said we like playing Michigan and Wisconsin 106 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: and Iowa more than Washington State. So, Gavin Newsom, you 107 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: wanted a pro model. This is the reaction to your 108 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: pro model, and now you're upset with it. Dear Colin, 109 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: who's the most underappreciated athlete in America this week? You 110 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: know who it is. It's James Harden. James Harden looked 111 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: in the mirror and said, I no longer a top 112 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: twenty player. I'm going to take less. I want to 113 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: win more. It's that kind of self awareness. I wish 114 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving had, or Russell Westbrook had. James Harden deserves 115 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: props Carmelo Anthony struggled with this for years. James Harden 116 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: virtually overnight said, wow, I can't beat people off the dribble. Wow, 117 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: I can't get twenty eight good shots at night and 118 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: beads a star Tyrese Maxie is ascending. I'm going to 119 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: take a big pay cut, hope for winning and let 120 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: the other guys make some bank. That kind of self 121 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: awareness quickly is really rare in the NBA. Good for 122 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: James Harden, listen, He's made a lot of money, but 123 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: a lot of guys have coming to terms with your reality, 124 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: going to the bathroom and staring into the mirror. It's 125 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: hard for a league that is star driven and often 126 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: coddles the great scores, which Harden is or should I say, 127 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: was big news. Fan Duel has an all new mobile 128 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: gaming app, fan Duel. 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Location and real estate matters, 164 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: and timing when you're right of book matters and Alan 165 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: Schipnuk is a golfriter twenty five years at Sports Illustrated. 166 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: He writes a book on Phil Mickelson, By the Way, 167 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: great book fill the rip roaring and unauthorized biography of 168 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: Golf School's colorful superstar, and then he decides to join 169 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: the Live tour. Becomes this controversial figure, you know, after 170 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: reading your book, and I guess I never gave this thought. 171 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: If you'd have told me there's two golfers that would 172 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: have joined it, I would have guessed Greg Norman, who 173 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: verbalized his frustration with the PGA Tour for years, and Phil, 174 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: who's sort of an audacious eater and gambler and liver. 175 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm not surprised by it, but were 176 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: you shocked by either. No, it's interesting because Phil and 177 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: Greg have never been close, but they are definitely kindred spirits. 178 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they played the game the same way, which 179 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: is aggressive to the point of clist. It's kind of 180 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: how they've lived their lives, and so it almost seems 181 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: like it's in the stars. So they would come together 182 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: at this very complicated moment for professional golf and it 183 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: checks out. I mean, it's interesting that the players who 184 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: have gone over to live by and large fitnes personality type. 185 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean Patrick Reid, Brooks, Kepka, Bryce and the Shamble. Like, yes, 186 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a polite term for that personality, 187 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: but I mean Spikey maybe um And and so the 188 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: league is sort of forming in Norman's image in a 189 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: lot of ways. I mean, he's always stirred the pot, 190 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: he's always been controversial in some quarters. He's still he's 191 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: a pariah really, and so it's it's, uh, it's fascinating 192 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: how how how this has played out, and it's changed 193 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, the addition of the most 194 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: recently of Charles Howell and Henrik Stenson. That's actually important 195 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: for Live because everyone likes those guys. They're like nice people, right. 196 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: I think they need to start recruiting some choir boys 197 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: because you know, Pat Perez, Jason Kokrack, like again, these guys, 198 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: all these are they're a very particular personality type. And 199 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: so it's interesting if you're so you're trying to win 200 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: hearts and minds, you have to have players that the 201 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: people like and they want to cheer for. So um, 202 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: it's it's it's fascinating to watch how this all plays out. Well. 203 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: I've talked about this with friends Dana White, Vince McMahon. 204 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: If you look at some of the great brand builders 205 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: in my space, Dana White, we're gonna go fight right 206 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of COVID. That's his personality is hyper aggressive. 207 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: You know, Vince McMahon has fought the critics forever, and 208 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: I think you're onto something that the Live Tour knew 209 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: it was going to take people, if not contrarian, that 210 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: are kind of alpha. But you know, here's what's interesting 211 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: to me, Alan is there, you know, there's pearl clutching 212 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: over sports gambling, and then what generally happens, a wave 213 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: of people accept it and then we all kind of 214 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: take a deep breath and go. So now Charles Barkley's 215 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: name is out there, and I look at Golfer's Allen 216 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: and I think to myself, well, they played golf since 217 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: their kids by themselves. A caddy's really just an employee. 218 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: They're not teammates, right, They're not part of really a collective. 219 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: They're always based on their score, independent contractors. And I 220 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: think to myself, this was inevitable that this is the 221 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: sport of solo artists. Wasn't this inevitable at some point? 222 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: If it wasn't if it wasn't Saudi Arabia Allen, it's Amazon, 223 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: it's Xon, it's Apple. It's somebody looking at the PGA 224 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: and thinking you're very vulnerable. You're just an organizing group. 225 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: This was going to happen, wasn't it well, And it 226 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: almost did in the early nineties, and that was Fox money, 227 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, that was that was Norman's body. Rupert Murdoch, 228 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: who proposed the two of them, came up with this 229 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: this World Golf Tour, and it was a very viable 230 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: competitor to the PGA Tour, but they didn't quite have 231 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: the long money that the Saudis do, and Norman got 232 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: out foxed by a very kg PGA Tour commissioner and 233 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: Tim Fincham who was a lawyer and a political operative. 234 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: And this time the scales a little different. Norman has 235 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: more money and the current PGA Tour Commissioner, Jaymonhan doesn't 236 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: have the same sensibilities as its predecessor, and so they 237 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: they've they've gotten purchased on this. But yeah, it's you're right. 238 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean the tour, because it's been a monopoly on 239 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: big time golf in the US. It had grown complacent 240 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: and the product had become stale. I mean the golf 241 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: courses h choose. They had gone away from a lot 242 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: of traditional venues in favor of these tPCS, which some 243 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: are okay, but it doesn't exactly stir the soul when 244 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: you see the initials TPC in front of a golf 245 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: course name, and you know, the style of play has 246 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: become very one dimensional. It's sort of analogous to baseball, 247 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: where it's a home run or a strikeout and that's it. 248 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean that there's the power game has become so 249 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: emphasized the PGA tour that the shop making, the finesse, 250 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: the artistry, even some of the the cerebral aspects of 251 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: the game have been de emphasized and it's just a 252 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: more boring product. So and then you have the players. Um, 253 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: you know, they've they their relationship with the press is 254 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: evolved where they all want to monetize their their content 255 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: and they saw how Tigers signed this deal and Roy 256 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: McRoy signed this deal, and so they become more remote figures. 257 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: They're not. It's it's harder if as reporters, if we 258 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: can't tell their story and get people that care. Um, 259 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: that's a problem. You know that. There's a reason that 260 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, at the Olympics we watch all these vignettes 261 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: because you have to have a rooting interest, and the 262 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: players have gotten more remote and golf that hasn't served 263 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: their interests and so, um, there's a lot of things 264 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: that have come together here that did, as you say, 265 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: make make the tour vulnerable. And the complicating factor, of 266 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: course is the Saudi money because that is that causes 267 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: a lot of motion and a lot of cognitive dissonance 268 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: for people, and so that's why we're having all these conversations. 269 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: But from a pure competition standpoint, you're absolutely right. The 270 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: tour needed competition, and now it's arrived in spades. Yeah. 271 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: You know, I was contacted by Greg Norman's people the 272 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: other day, and I'm interested in looking at it. And 273 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: I think, for instance, broadcast television was vulnerable and that 274 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: really elicited a strong push by cable. Cable television's vulnerable, 275 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: here comes Netflix. And so the key is the Pac 276 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: twelve was vulnerable, Here comes the Big Ten. The Big 277 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: twelve was vulnerable, Here comes the sec The key is 278 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: to not make yourself vulnerable. But some of this, let 279 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: me defend the PGA, is just timing. I don't believe 280 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: if Tiger Woods was in his thirties and crushing, regardless 281 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: of money, Alan Live would not be as attractive. There 282 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: was a certain panash and sex appeal that Tiger gave 283 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: the tour. I mean it was like Sopranos. I set 284 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: my clock to Sunday, and I think as Tiger has 285 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: become less relevant and Phil has aged, those were the 286 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: two rock stars in my opinion after Greg Norman I 287 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: had a Greg Norman. I had six Greg Norman golf shirts. 288 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: I mean he I was serious and I'm not a 289 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: golf shirt wear or great golfer. But Greg was a 290 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: rock star. And then here comes Tiger and Phil rock stars. 291 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: As they've diminished in relevance in a fragmented sports world, 292 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: there's it's hard to grab onto the sport. Alan For me, 293 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: it's if I still root for Phil to be viable 294 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: six a year ago, for him to be viable on 295 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: Sunday made my weekend. I don't feel I like Brooks Kapica, 296 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: but I don't feel that way right. Yeah, there's I mean, 297 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: for a decade or more, there's been handwringing about what 298 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: is golf can look like in the post Tiger, post 299 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: Phil era. This has been an issue that's been thought 300 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: about and talked about for a long time, and to 301 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: some degree, we can't get past them because, you know, 302 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: Tiger hijack the narrative at the Open Championship just last week. 303 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: Phil remains one of the biggest stories in golf, even 304 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: though he's not really playing that well, so there's still 305 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of the death rattle of their their relevance. 306 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: But they can't go on forever. And then, as you say, 307 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: you lose a lot of juice, you lose a lot 308 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: of casual fans. And so what I think what Norman 309 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: identified is that, you know, golf has changed. I think 310 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: four million people tried the sport for the first time 311 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: last year and it wasn't on a golf course. It 312 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: was at a five iron golf indoor facility, it was 313 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: at a top golf or it was you know, any 314 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: like a little part three course. And people are coming 315 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: to the game in non traditional ways. And so what 316 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: Live Golf is trying to do is capitalize on these 317 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: fans who, as you say, they don't they don't have 318 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: these long rooting allegiances, and they just want to experience 319 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: of sport and their their panties are not in a 320 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: twist about a shotgun start or fifty four holes versus 321 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: seventy two. They just it's not that big a deal 322 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: to them. And so I think that Live is, you know, 323 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: it's a classic disruptor along the lines of some of 324 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: those those models that you discussed. And again the Saudi 325 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: money makes it complicated from a moral slash ethical slash 326 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: geo political standpoint, But just as a. If you can 327 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: separate that and compartmentalize that, it's pretty incredible what Live 328 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: Golf is built in a short period of time. I mean, 329 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: no one would ever imagine they'd have this many Hall 330 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: of Famers, major championship winners and relevant golfers that they 331 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: have in such short period of time. And there's more common. 332 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: I mean the Open Championship. I was just in Saint 333 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: Andrews and the conversation it was the air was alive 334 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: with talk about this deal and that deal, and who's 335 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: next and what's the number, and there's there's still going 336 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: to land a few whales and so they you know, 337 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: very quickly. Live is reshape the whole landscape of professional 338 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: golf well and all. And something you touched on. Look 339 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: at the history of Amazon, which started as a bookstore, 340 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: a bookstore, online bookstore. Netflix was essentially Blockbuster. I own 341 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: a small company. We have completely pivoted off things in 342 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: twelve months. Is the people who criticize Live the TV product. 343 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, folks, this business is less than a year old. 344 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: Capital solves a lot of problems for small businesses, and 345 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: I think in two to three years, I mean, what 346 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: if Live Golf just went to a network Fox for instance, 347 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: and said, you gave up golf to NBC. You're not 348 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: a streaming company. ESPN's arrival. They have a viable streaming option. 349 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: We'll give you five hundred million dollars a year sponsor 350 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: or two or put it on your network. I mean, 351 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: I don't run Fox, but geez Alan, everybody's looking for 352 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: content that seems viable to me. Right. Yeah. There's been 353 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: a lot of jokes about the team element to live. 354 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: Some of the names are kind of hokey and some 355 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: of the some of the logos are funny, but it's 356 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: not fully baked out because this has been a unusual 357 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: year as there's been. They're still adding players and they're 358 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: still getting everything sort and next year is gonna be 359 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: very different. You're gonna have these teams that are solidified 360 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: for the whole year, and I think they're very cleverly 361 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: unifying them around nations or regions. And so if you're 362 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: a golf and you don't care about the majestics or 363 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: then these titles ta come up with. But if if 364 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: you're South African and there's a team of four South Africans, 365 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: you're naturally you're just going to gravitate towards them. And 366 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: of course and they've they've got an all English team, 367 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: now there's an all Spanish speaking team. You know, they're 368 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: they're looking to assign a Decky Mantoyama, who's the biggest 369 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: star in Asia. So then if you have a team 370 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: that represents Asia, like all of a sudden, it becomes 371 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: a little more viable and I think the team aspect 372 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: could take off. And that's also part of their business 373 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: model is to sell these franchises. And so you know, 374 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: if you're if you're Dermott Desmond or you know, this 375 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: big billionaire out of South Africa who loves golf, has 376 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: always and interested in the game, why wouldn't you buy 377 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: that it's just fun, gets access to all these events 378 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: and and then he has a rooting interest and he 379 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,239 Speaker 1: brings all his capital and all his connections. And I 380 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: do think that that Live is going to evolve in 381 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: ways that we aren't even fully aware of yet. And 382 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: if you just if you've been following social media, both 383 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: Um Pricing de Shambo and Graham McDowell, they've been on 384 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: social media with these NFTs that they've partnered with, and 385 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: that's a potentially huge revenue stream and something that the 386 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: PGA Tour has been very slow to realize, and so 387 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: there's money to be made and it is shaking all 388 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: those trees in a way that the PGA Tour is not. 389 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: And that plus the Saudi war chest. I mean then, 390 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: as you say, that gives them the ability to if 391 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: they don't need to make as much money from their 392 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: TV deal or from some of these traditional channels, then 393 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: they can be really innovative in the product. Because if 394 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: you're on golf Twitter on Sunday afternoon for ten plus years, 395 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: people are always bitching about the TV coverage and the 396 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: commercial load and the innovation endlessly obnoxious, but it's just there. 397 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: And you know, watching these lived live streams has been 398 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: a revelation in that it's all golf. It is more 399 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: golf shots per second than in the history or now. 400 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: Of course, they don't have any they don't have any 401 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: sponsors or commercials or anything that will probably come over time, 402 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: but you know that's definitely helped them in the popular 403 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: imagination like wow, okay, this is this is just pure golf. 404 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: And so if they can retain that that spirit even 405 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: as they bake out their whole ecosystem, and they argued, 406 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: of course bringing at some point on corporate sponsors or whatever. 407 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: But I think if they can, that's where they can 408 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: be really disruptive. Is the golf TV product has been 409 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: terrible for a very long time, and if they're going 410 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: to rethink it and be really imaginative and really think 411 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: about the viewer first as opposed to the sponsors and 412 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: the commercials and all that, then they can make big 413 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: inroads in the sport. Well, you just described XM. Serrious 414 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: people complained about the onslaught of commercial reads during Radio XM. 415 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: Sirius said, no ads like the live tour, you get 416 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: more talking now. Over the course of twenty years, they've 417 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: supplemented their subscription model with ads. But your point is 418 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: vulnerable businesses create XM serious. Howard Stern says, I can 419 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: swear and don't have to do all these commercials, And 420 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: so I think your point is a good one. Your 421 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: book years ago, Oliver Stone made Wall Street. He did 422 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: not mean to make Gordon Gecko a sympathetic figure, but 423 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: he did that. All these young traders wanted to be 424 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: Gordon Gecko, not Bud Fox, right, And as I read 425 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: the film book, I'm thinking do I like him more? 426 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: He's so flawed, a bit of a mess, so absurdly 427 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: confident at times, obnoxious at times, deeply caring and thoughtful 428 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: of others that as I watched that, I thought, not 429 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: in any way that you were trying to be like 430 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: Oliver Stone and create an unsympathetic character. But as you 431 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: were writing it, did you think to yourself at any point, 432 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: oh boy, this could be punitive, this is damaging, or 433 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: did you think I think when you get the whole Enchilada, 434 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: you kind of you like it more, because at the 435 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: end of your book, I had mixed vibes. At times 436 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: I thought he's kind of a mess, and then I'm like, 437 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: it's just part of Phil, It's who he is. Yeah, well, 438 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: that that was my intention is I tried very hard 439 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: not to legislate people's emotions and feelings towards Phil. I 440 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: didn't come in with an agenda and try and push 441 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: this idea that feels good or feels bad, because in 442 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: some ways he's both, Like, he's very complex and he's 443 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: very multifaceted. So I just wanted to put it all 444 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: out there and let each reader take from it what 445 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: they will, and it's been fascinating to hear the reactions 446 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: because I've had people say I was never a phil fan, 447 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: and I've read it, and I love the guy now 448 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: for despite his flaws, and he's lost some fans because 449 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: there was things in the book that they found objectionable, 450 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: and there's there's people who are very ambivalent, you know, 451 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: they're they're a torrent. They're like, well, I love him 452 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: and I hate him, and and so I think that 453 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: maybe I did my job because he's not a cardboard 454 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: cut out. He's not he's not two dimensional. And um, 455 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: so yeah, I to your question, I was I was careful, 456 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: like I was always trying to bring it back when 457 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: when there's some great stuff about his philanthropy and it 458 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: makes you want to hug the guy, then was like, 459 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: all right, well, let's let's sprinkle in a little spice here. 460 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: And then when there when there's things that you know, 461 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: they're controversial and people might not like you know, might 462 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: not appreciate, I'm okay, let's let's talk about his mentorship 463 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: and his philanthropy. And so I was always trying to 464 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: kind of toggle between the two, the two extremes. So 465 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: that was sort of an editorial decision. But ultimately it's 466 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: just how Phil's lived his life. I mean, he's done 467 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot of things, and he's touched a lot of people, 468 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: and it's been a part of a a lot of controversy, 469 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: a lot of mess, and it's just it's all in there. 470 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite golf books because you're not judgmental, 471 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: You're an observer and a reporter. And I think toggles 472 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: a perfect word. There is a you know, the roller 473 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: coaster effect where it's like, ooh, this is a lot, 474 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: and then there's you get that brief Oh what a 475 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: what a thoughtful ride this is? And his diet is 476 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: not surprising. I take people to I mean, he's I 477 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: have somebody in my life who has a little bit 478 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: of this personality, which is everything is big, the opinions 479 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: are big, the gambling's big. Let me ask you, this 480 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: was the decision to join live in economic necessity? At 481 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: any point do you believe? I mean, he's made well 482 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: into hundreds of millions, But then I read about his 483 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: gambling losses and remember he can make one hundred million, 484 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: but in California you get fifty. If you're a little 485 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: fifty million, you lost one hundred million. There's some economic 486 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: necessity here, Yeah, I think there was some economic motivation. 487 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: I mean it was interesting because after the book came out, 488 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Phil started using the word addiction in regards to his gambling. 489 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: He'd never said that. I think that that was a 490 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: powerful statement. And again with Phil, you never know, like 491 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: is part of that's he worried about this Billy Walter's 492 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: book that's coming and Billy really knows about Phil's gambling. 493 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: And by couching yourself in the terms of addiction, is 494 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: that making more sympathetic? So come what may you can say, well, 495 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: I had a problem, I've addressed it, I've moved on. 496 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: Or was it a very sincere you know, opening of 497 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 1: the soul and trying to reach out to people who 498 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: may have had their own issues and let them know 499 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: that he's with them and he's been through it as well. 500 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you never know with Phil. It's he's such 501 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: a personality test that how you take that. But the 502 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: fact is for him to say that was powerful, and 503 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: it tells you that it was a huge force in 504 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 1: his life and it was a destructive force. And he 505 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: claims that he's you know, Phil can always make money, 506 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: so whatever whatever his problems were and even if he 507 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: was starting at scratch as of a year ago, the 508 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: PGA Championship victory and the bonuses and now the live money, 509 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: he should be on easy Street. But you know, he 510 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: said that he was candidate. It's something he still has 511 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: to work on. He's gonna work on for the rest 512 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: of his life. So it's that that temptation is always there. 513 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: We all have addicts in our life and we know 514 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: the struggle that they deal with, and so I think 515 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: Phil's okay, but I think there was a time when 516 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: it was very tenuous and that's probably what forced him 517 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: to seek help. You know, um reading your book and 518 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: the opinions, obviously there's people that don't want to be quoted. 519 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: Some people aren't confrontational, and if they don't love Phil, 520 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: they don't want it out there. There's plenty of people 521 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: you know on my sphere that probably don't like me, 522 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't want to be quoted, right for the pushback, 523 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: if not from from fans, right, Like, I get it right, 524 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: people anonymous is very powerful. But when I read your book, 525 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: I didn't think Phil was liked or disliked. I thought 526 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: players are kind of fascinated with him. They're not jealous 527 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: of him, but kind of there's a part of him 528 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: that I think every golfer's like. I kind of like 529 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: to hang out with Phil for four or five days. 530 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: Like I don't know if envy's the right word, alan, 531 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: but there's a wonderment. I don't know if he's liked. 532 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: He's a little too cocky to be beloved by all, 533 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: but he is genuine. I think people are a little 534 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: even today. I think his friends are kind of fascinated 535 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: by him. Am I off here? No? I think that's 536 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: very astute. And you know, I tried very hard in 537 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: the book not to have anonymous sources. I mean almost 538 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: everyone put their name on it, which was important to me. Yes, 539 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: it was interesting because I've been writing about Tiger as long. 540 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: I've been writing about Phil, and when you I've done 541 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: some big deep dives on Tiger for Sports Illustrated, for 542 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: cover stories and all that, and you call people up 543 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: and they'll talk to you, but they don't. They don't 544 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: want their name attached because of the blowback, because Tiger 545 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,239 Speaker 1: can be very vindictive and the people around him are 546 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: very uptight. And so many people and I called them 547 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: about Phil, they were delighted to talk about him and 548 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: high ideas. He's been in the sport forever as a 549 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: reporter and and he was he was a tiger chronicler 550 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: from an early age. But people have always gotten to him. Me. 551 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: He had be very careful what he said and didn't say. 552 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: And he said to me one way, he said, Man, 553 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: it's fun talking about Phil. He's like, let's keep going. 554 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: You know. He was having a great time, just like 555 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: you're unencumbered and everyone does have stories and it's It's 556 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: funny though, because I asked many players who are Phil's 557 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: close friends on tour and people really struggled to answer that, 558 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of them couldn't come up with any names, 559 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: you know he had. He's kind of he bounces from 560 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: group to group and he'll run this little wolf pack 561 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: in these Tuesday money games, and I think he wears 562 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: people out and he moves on to a different group 563 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: and it's part of charitably, you could call it mentorship. 564 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,479 Speaker 1: You know, he's taken on all these young players under 565 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: under his wing and he's showing them the ways of 566 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: the world, and he's building relationships. But he doesn't have 567 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: those deeply rooted friendships, you know, if you talk about 568 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: Tiger Woods, you'd say no to a gay, you'd say Marcomira, 569 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: you would say Charles Howe. You know, you can come 570 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: up with half does names pretty quickly, but with Phil 571 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: people came up empty. And I thought that was interesting. 572 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: You know, he's close to his some of his college 573 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: teammates about and talking to people more contemporary and feels life. 574 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: He's like, they only know one side of him. It's 575 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: a very specific side, and so I think in some 576 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: ways feels kind of a cipher or a chameleon. And 577 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: I think that serves him well in certain scenarios. But 578 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: I think there's also maybe a loneliness and an isolation, 579 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: and I think some of the decisions he's made, it's 580 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: clearly I mean it's pretty clear he's not had good 581 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: advice around him, and he's kind of winging it. I mean, 582 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: he even saw it. That statement he put out after 583 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: my book excerpt drop. You know, it was a total 584 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: word salad. It was all over the place, right, he 585 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: made himself both the hero and the victim of the 586 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: same press release, and there was it was like obviously 587 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: it read like a Donald Trump midnight tweet storm. You know, 588 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: it was just a little bit. Yeah, yeah, and like 589 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: someone needed to reel him back in. But I don't 590 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: think he has those people in his life except for Amy, 591 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 1: and she's she's taken on. I mean, I haven't seen 592 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: in a tournament since I think the Fall Masters going 593 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: on two years ago. She's taken on a much lower profile. 594 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: Impossible to say exactly what's going on there, but um, 595 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: I wonder how many people have Phil has close to 596 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: him day to day and who he can really go to. 597 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of you know, his personality type. 598 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: He's even though he's he's always chewing the scenery and 599 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: he's always in the middle of of of some conversation. 600 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: It proven to people how smart he is. I do 601 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: sense like a loneliness there. And and so you know, 602 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: for him, going to live golf is a fresh start. 603 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: You know, he gets to be the captain of a team, 604 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: he gets to draft guys, he gets to create his 605 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: own little world around him. And I think that's part 606 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: of the appeal, is like, Okay, this is a much 607 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: more intimate tour. I've kind of put myself on the 608 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: line to create this. These guys were coming over here 609 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: and getting this big money they're a little beholden to me, 610 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: and I think it was a chance for him to 611 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: to reshape his his whole world in a way that 612 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: was attractive and maybe necessary. The book is called Phil 613 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: It's just fantastic, and it's it's an easy read. It's storytelling, 614 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: it's funny. I read the first half on a plane, 615 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: and if you've ever sat next to somebody on a 616 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: plane who's laughing out loud, it makes you want to 617 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: go buy the book. So I sold. I sold your 618 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: book to at least one guy in a B I 619 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: was in a one a M. I want to circle 620 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: back to Greg Norman. So you know, I tend to 621 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: defend skiers and tennis players and golfers. It's hard. Their 622 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: solo acts, almost a single minded selfishness is really the 623 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: opposite of team sports. It can be a great beneficiary 624 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,959 Speaker 1: to you. I mean, you can look at the great 625 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: Olympic skiers and the great tennis players of McEnroe on. 626 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: They're intense, they're irascible, and so you know, I when 627 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: I looked at Greg Norman, he was fascinating. He was 628 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: from Australia, the Shark. He had branding before branding, I 629 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: mean Honestly, he's one of the first branded athletes I 630 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: ever remember. Yeah, I mean I can remember the color 631 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: of his shirts and the collars were different. And you 632 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: guys had your situation where there's he's looking sternly behind 633 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: you and not knowing Greg and knowing you what I know. 634 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: I laughed at it. I thought, oh, brother, this is 635 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: going to be another book. But like Dana White creating UFC, 636 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: like Vince McMahon, this is going to be a polarizing 637 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: tour and it's going to be hard and you're gonna 638 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: get ripped and you're going to need security. And not 639 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: that I defended Greg in that moment, but I thought, 640 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: I've seen this before. I've seen this build before, and 641 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: it takes a feistiness and Norman is perfect for it. 642 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: In my opinion, I look at it and I think 643 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: he's the guy I would have selected. Golf's Jack is 644 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: too golf traditional. I always felt from Australia coming here, 645 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: he feels like the guy that would have done this, 646 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: And so not that I'm sympathetic Alan, but like, I 647 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: get it, I get Norman in this tour. Does that 648 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: make sense? And totally and yeah, I think what you 649 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: said is very perceptive. I mean, he's an iconoclast and 650 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: that's always been his role in the game. And Norman 651 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: he's taken a lot of shrapnel through the years, but 652 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: he's he's always like Phil has done more recently. You know, 653 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: Greg back in the nineties was fighting for a lot 654 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: of these same battles. You know, the players have a 655 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: bigger slice of the pie, that they should have controlled 656 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: their media rights, that they should have control their branding, 657 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: that that the tour was there to serve them, not 658 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: the other way around. I mean, he's he's had a 659 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: very particular point of view for a long time. And 660 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: as PGA Tour has gotten bigger, more money's flowed into 661 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: professional golf post Tiger, I think a lot of players 662 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: have come around to that same point of view. It 663 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,320 Speaker 1: took him twenty years. They're longer, but I mean Norman 664 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: was very much ahead of his time, as he said, 665 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: and so it's he's kind of the right man at 666 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,399 Speaker 1: the right time. He's he's a polarizing figure. He loves 667 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: the media, he loves the limelight, he loves the juice. 668 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: You know, to use a word that that's been thrown 669 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: around with Phil, and it's it takes it. I mean, 670 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm amazing as the stomach for this because he's he's 671 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: he's taken a lot of bullets and guys, you know, 672 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: sixty eight years old, you would presume he's got all 673 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: the money he needs. But for him, there's no one 674 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: deals the salvage there. They're not getting paid. So certainly 675 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: he's got a nice check out of this, but it's 676 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: more about vindication. This is a thirty year grudge he 677 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: that goes back to his battles with the tour when 678 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: he was out foxed and humiliated. And so I think 679 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: in the end Norman probably would have done this for 680 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: free because it's a chance to be right. It's a 681 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: chance to stick it to the tour. It's a chance 682 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: to reshape the whole sport in his own image in 683 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,399 Speaker 1: certain ways. And for a guy like Greg who thinks 684 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: about his legacy and for who cares and who's always 685 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: wanted to be this agent of change, it's just an 686 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: absolute delicious opportunity. And you know, he's made a few 687 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: minor missteps along the way, and he's put his foot 688 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: in his mouth a couple of times, but overall you 689 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: have to say it's impressive. What He's built in a 690 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,959 Speaker 1: very short period of time, and it takes a certain 691 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: cult of personality. You know, the people who worked for 692 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: Live Golf I've now been. I was at the event 693 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: in London, as you reference, I was also the one 694 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: in Portland. I don't think there's only a couple of 695 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: reporters who can say they went to both. And there is. 696 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: There is a cult of personality around Norman. The people 697 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: who were running operations and running the details of Live Golf, 698 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: they're true believers and he's the reason why and so 699 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: and you know, he's out there, he's having fun with 700 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: the players. And it's interesting because the PGA Tour commissioner 701 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: is always a bureaucrat, and the players always look at 702 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: them as as an opponent and as almost like a 703 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: school principal, you know, who's waiting to scold you. But 704 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: Norman's an equal, and he's a peer, and he's in 705 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. I mean, none of these guys 706 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: are going to be number one in the world for 707 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty weeks. Like Greg Norman was right, 708 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: like he's done things they could only dream about as 709 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 1: a player. So they really look at him differently as 710 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: he's a protector, and he's a he's a patriarch, and 711 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: it's just a different energy between the players and Norman 712 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: versus what the players had with with the PGA Tour commissioner. 713 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: And he's he's maximized and exploited that and he's done 714 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: a great job bringing these guys into the fold feeling 715 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: like they're part of something bigger that they're playing for 716 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: for something that matters to them, which is obviously money, 717 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: but also being able to do things their way and 718 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: to have a voice and to have control of their destiny, 719 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: which most of them felt like they didn't have on 720 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:21,359 Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. Let's wrap it up. Your your relationship 721 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: with Phil this very moment, now that the book has 722 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: been published, how is it? Yeah, it's pretty I mean 723 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: it's I'd say it's distant. You know. I've been trying 724 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: to get an audience with them at these at these events, 725 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: and he has people around him who have way overreacted, 726 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,919 Speaker 1: Like in the final analysis. Now I've had a chance 727 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,319 Speaker 1: to like dig into what happened, you know, as at 728 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: that press conference at the first the first London event, 729 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: and I got bounced out by the security goons and 730 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't the live people. It was it was Phil's 731 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 1: people who sent them my way. You know, I think 732 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: this is all trying to piece it together, and everyone 733 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: has a different story from what I my interpretation, and 734 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: it was someone from his management company just overreacted. And 735 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: so whether Phil was in on it, whether he knew, 736 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 1: I cannot say. But so I didn't get a chance 737 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: to really interact with them at that tournament. I did 738 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: ask him a question at the US Open in a 739 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: press conference, and it was a simple question. It wasn't 740 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: a gotcha thing, and he answered it straightforward and that 741 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: took a little air out of things. But you know, 742 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: he played poorly in Portland at that event, and I 743 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: just didn't really I was trying to get I was 744 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: always closing in on a moment and then it evaporated, 745 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: you know that I said, there's not really we don't 746 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: have access to the locker rooms, and with the shotgun finishes, 747 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: everyone comes in all at once. You know, it's not 748 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: a steady, orderly stream of golfers on the eighteenth hole 749 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: like got The entire field converges in the parking lot. 750 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: And so it just hasn't happened. So I would still 751 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: like to have a chat with him, just human to 752 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: human and you know he's got my phone, Drom. I'm available. 753 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: It's just a question of what he wants to say 754 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: and what he wants to say it. But I would 755 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: like to have that conversation. I hope we will and 756 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 1: we'll see how it goes. One more. Brendall Shamblee had 757 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: a quote on the air and he said, I Free. 758 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: It was during an event and he said, you know 759 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: Phil's thirty one over Dustin Johnson's playing terrible golf? Is 760 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: that you got the bag? Why do you have to 761 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: play great golf? And I thought, I don't know if 762 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: that's true, because I've Patrick Mahomes got the bag and 763 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: he still cares. But as the commentator said, this is 764 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: not a team sport. Do you think that players are 765 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: a bit disincentivized to work on their games? I thought 766 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: it was interesting because all golfers are more fascinating when 767 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: they play great golf, right, but there is no you know, 768 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: I thought it was an interesting My takeaway was I'm 769 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,360 Speaker 1: not sure he's right, but it's certainly psychologically possible. Do 770 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: you sense that? Yeah, but you can you can you 771 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: can extend that to when a guy won the FedEx 772 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: Cup and one fifteen million dollars life changing money, you 773 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: know they did they just mail it in the next season. No, 774 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's human nature to be complacent. 775 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 1: But the great golfers are obsessive, right, Like, that's what 776 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,399 Speaker 1: drives right they are When when Phil Mickelson stands over 777 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 1: at golf ball, whether it's in his backyard or did 778 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: the Masters or at some live event, he wants to 779 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,280 Speaker 1: hit a great shot. That's how he's being conditioned. Now, 780 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: is you are when when these guys signed for this 781 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: big money, are they going to put in the time 782 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: at the gym and the tournament prep Are they have 783 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: that same hunger? We'll find out. It's too small a 784 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: sample size so far to say that, you know, based 785 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: on two tournaments on the Live Tour or a couple 786 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 1: of majors, that these guys are mailing it in. We 787 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: just don't know that. And um, you know the idea 788 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: that they're because they're not the PGA Tour now they're 789 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: they're not in a grind. I mean, the financial incentives 790 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: on the Live Tour are monumental, and professional golfers by 791 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,840 Speaker 1: definition play for money, and so these guys are going 792 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: to go hard. I mean, I'm not sure there's much 793 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,760 Speaker 1: difference between a regular tour event and a live event 794 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,839 Speaker 1: as far as you know. There's a few special ones. 795 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: But if you're a memorial with Jack Nicholas, if you're 796 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: at the LA Open, because of the the grandeur of Riviera, 797 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: like there's a five or six PGA Tour events that 798 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: are really special week and weeking out the other three 799 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,280 Speaker 1: or four dozen. The difference between you know, Sea Island 800 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: and versus the Quad cities, like they're all kind of 801 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: blend together. And so they do they do. And so 802 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: I think that professional golfers, they you know, they are 803 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,400 Speaker 1: they have to motivate themselves. They're playing three weeks in 804 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: a row and they're to B list event. What makes 805 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: them want to play well? I mean partly they're they're 806 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: chasing money, and there's a lot more money to chase 807 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: than the live tour, And so I don't really agree 808 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: that these guys are gonna stop trying. I think, you know, 809 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: this time next year, after we've we've completed you know, 810 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: basically a year and a half of live competition, and 811 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: we've seen how these guys perform in the majors along 812 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: the way. I think we can we can maybe start 813 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: drawing some conclusions, but it's too early right now. The 814 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: book is called Phil, the rip Roaring and Unauthorized Biography 815 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: of Golf's most colorful superstar. He also writes for The 816 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,800 Speaker 1: Firepit Collective, It's really a good read. It's fun, it's fast. 817 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: You grab it a couple of times and you put 818 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: it down and you're like, you know, it's It's like 819 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 1: one of those binge watching Netflix shows. It's going to 820 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,839 Speaker 1: take a couple of days, six episodes. Folks are gonna 821 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: absolutely love it. And I, as I said earlier, I 822 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: don't know flawed Phil, fun, Phil is fulfilling Phil. I 823 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: liked him. Alan absolute pleasure for me. You're such a 824 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: great storyteller and a reporter. You're really sharp, and I 825 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,240 Speaker 1: just you know, you've got things going on in your life. 826 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: Now you're chasing Greg Norman or he's chasing you. And 827 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,360 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me, and 828 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: thanks for all the kind of words. It means a 829 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: lot to me. Appreciate Colin the volume. Make sure to 830 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: check out The Draymond Green Show. I brought Draymond Green 831 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: into the Volume because one of the more entertaining voices 832 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: in sports, unique perspective understands behind the rope also chops 833 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,760 Speaker 1: up with guests like Gary Peyton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. 834 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,759 Speaker 1: Make sure download The Draymond Green Show wherever you get 835 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: your podcasts, only on the Volume podcast Network.