Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your
Speaker 1: war room for in center news and draft analysis from
Speaker 1: deep within the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star
Speaker 1: in Frisco, Dallas Cowboys like C. D. Lamb and now
Speaker 1: your hosts Dane Brugler, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kevin Turner and Kyle
Speaker 1: Yeoman's It's a wonderful Thursday edition of the Draft Show,
Speaker 1: presented by Miller Lite from the SWBC Mortgage Studios here
Speaker 1: from the Star in Frisco, as we continue to get
Speaker 1: you ready for the NFL Draft, as it is now
Speaker 1: just eighty one days away. April twenty ninth is when
Speaker 1: things kick off in Cleveland, Ohio, and it's starting to
Speaker 1: get to be crunch time because well the Senior Bowl
Speaker 1: is in the rear view mirror. The heat is starting
Speaker 1: to get turned up on these front offices, and the
Speaker 1: same thing goes for the Draft Show. Jeff Kavanaugh, We've
Speaker 1: got Kevin kat Turner, Dane Brugler from the Athletic. I'm
Speaker 1: Kyle Yelman's just trying to drive the bus as always
Speaker 1: here on this show. And gentlemen, the like I said,
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl in the rear view mirror, we talked about
Speaker 1: it a little bit on Tuesday with Bucky Brooks. Brian
Speaker 1: brought us and David Hellman and had a great conversation
Speaker 1: about kind of the Cowboys feel with it. I kind
Speaker 1: of want to get in to some of the prospects today.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about the quarterback position. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the corners as well. In that secondary
Speaker 1: we can the Cowboys find their type of corner, and
Speaker 1: by type of corner, Jeff Kavanaugh has a different idea
Speaker 1: of what type of corner he potentially wants to see
Speaker 1: as a Dallas Cowboy. But Dane start us off by
Speaker 1: kind of giving us your final general thoughts in terms
Speaker 1: of the Senior Bowl. What you took from the week
Speaker 1: down in Mobile. It was definitely weird. It was definitely different,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's different than what we're used to.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm very thankful that we
Speaker 1: had it. You know, all the credit the Jim Nage
Speaker 1: and his staff for we're being able to pull it
Speaker 1: off um and a safe environment and gave the team's
Speaker 1: opportunity to look at these guys even more, and it
Speaker 1: also gave a lot of these players the opportunity to
Speaker 1: help themselves and we are we touched on it, you know,
Speaker 1: last week a little bit just you know, some of
Speaker 1: the risers guys that helped themselves. But some of these players,
Speaker 1: you know, we we're gonna look at them totally different
Speaker 1: now compared to uh, you know, a week ago because
Speaker 1: of what they were able to do. Quinn Miners from Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: Whitewater being you know, one of the biggest risers, a
Speaker 1: guy like Richie Grant who I had a third round
Speaker 1: grade on him, loved them coming into the week after
Speaker 1: seeing him live and up close like that, he's going
Speaker 1: in the top fifty. That's you know, you gained a
Speaker 1: different bandage point. I think seeing these guys live, at
Speaker 1: least for me, and that's you know, my process and
Speaker 1: the way I look at these guys. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: but a lot of other players helped themselves. D Escridge
Speaker 1: from Western Michigan. Um, you know, it's just it's a
Speaker 1: loaded group of slot receivers in that second to fourth
Speaker 1: round range. How were these guys guys gonna really shake
Speaker 1: out in terms of how they're gonna be stacked? And
Speaker 1: you know, Dskridge and Marie Rogers and Shy Smith. The
Speaker 1: guys that were down there, Kaye Johnson, they were able
Speaker 1: to make, you know, kind of a statement like why
Speaker 1: they should be a little bit higher. So just a
Speaker 1: really productive week and I think we have a better
Speaker 1: feel for these players now than we did before the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. Katie. Yeah, I would say my thoughts, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a jerk, but if I
Speaker 1: was a cornerback, I would not go to the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl ever again because all the wide receivers are really good.
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of kidding, I'm sort of kidding a
Speaker 1: little bit, but it was amazing how you know, you
Speaker 1: go into the week with an eye on cornerbacks and
Speaker 1: you just get distracted by all of the wide receiver talent.
Speaker 1: And I'm in this world right now. I don't know
Speaker 1: how you guys look on your boards. And I know
Speaker 1: on the Thursday incarnation of the Draft Show, we haven't
Speaker 1: done a lot of wide receiver talk yet, partially because
Speaker 1: the Cowboys are kind of set there. But I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there going, Okay, am I really gonna have fifteen? Am
Speaker 1: I really gonna have twenty wide receivers in the top
Speaker 1: three rounds? Like there's a lot of separation on the
Speaker 1: draft board. I'm gonna have to figure out because I've
Speaker 1: as I continue to work through the wide receivers, I'm going, okay, well,
Speaker 1: there's enough about him that I like that I would
Speaker 1: consider him a top one hundred pick. And I end
Speaker 1: up going, oh my god. And then meanwhile I can wait,
Speaker 1: going okay, well, what cornerbacks really impressed me? Keith Taylor
Speaker 1: was great in the game on Saturday. Keith Taylor, the
Speaker 1: cornerback from Washington. I'm not sure I loved his tape.
Speaker 1: In fact, I can tell you that I didn't really
Speaker 1: like his tape. But he was moving a little better
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl, and you're asking yourself, Okay, how
Speaker 1: do you balance that out? Did he just improve? Like
Speaker 1: what happened? So I'm more confused at quarterback maybe than
Speaker 1: ever based on the guys who were at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: But man, that wide receiver position, I'm in love. I
Speaker 1: would never sign a wide receiver again. I think I'll
Speaker 1: just continue to draft him. They're incredible. That's a good
Speaker 1: point point because I thought throughout the week it was
Speaker 1: impressive for some of those corners that ended up playing
Speaker 1: decently well. I mean, you mentioned Keith Taylor. I thought
Speaker 1: he had a poor week to practice, and I'm right
Speaker 1: there with you, Katsie. I don't like his tape that much.
Speaker 1: I mean I had like a late third round grade
Speaker 1: on him in terms of his tape. But he played
Speaker 1: really well in the Senior Bowl. I mean there were
Speaker 1: guys like, oh man, I'm blanking on their names. Oh,
Speaker 1: Trey Norwood and Trey Brown, both out of Oklahoma. I
Speaker 1: thought they had decent weeks of practice, and then I
Speaker 1: don't think they played very well. So overall, I think
Speaker 1: you're looking at the cornerback position as something that is
Speaker 1: kind of wishy. Watch you when you go up against
Speaker 1: those receivers that are as talented as the wide receiver
Speaker 1: group was down in Mobile. Now, Jeff, what were your
Speaker 1: kind of thoughts on the week. Did you agree in
Speaker 1: the fact that some of these corners just didn't show
Speaker 1: out the way that you thought they would well. I
Speaker 1: think I would think that NFL teams no going into
Speaker 1: this that it's really hard because in the real world,
Speaker 1: it's not all that often that you're legitimately going to
Speaker 1: be you guy all by yourself, and he can run
Speaker 1: a drag all the way across the field five yards
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, good luck. So I think NFL
Speaker 1: teams know that it's advantage wide receiver in the one
Speaker 1: on one drills. But I think guys like um melifon
Speaker 1: Wu from Syracuse, Aaron Robinson, Central Florida, I think there
Speaker 1: were dbs that that helped themselves throughout the Senior Bowl practices.
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't I wouldn't be terrified to go there
Speaker 1: if I was a dB, I would just know that
Speaker 1: you're gonna go there and it's gonna be what you're
Speaker 1: used to in practice settings. One on one is hard
Speaker 1: and you gotta you gotta really believe in yourself and
Speaker 1: go ball out. But there's there's there's opportunities to make plays.
Speaker 1: And I thought some of those guys, did Dan, do
Speaker 1: you agree? Yeah? I thought Trey Brown was one of
Speaker 1: those guys who he's five ft ten on a good day,
Speaker 1: but his competitiveness that he played with was awesome to
Speaker 1: watch during practice. Really impressed with what he did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with Jeff, and it's I think
Speaker 1: that it's you're as a corner, You're expected that you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna have a tough time, You're gonna get beat.
Speaker 1: So if you do make a play, teams, you're gonna
Speaker 1: remember that. And so I think you take your chances
Speaker 1: and you go there and compete. And you know, we
Speaker 1: saw it, you know this year where the guy like
Speaker 1: like like I said, with Trey Brown, I thought helped
Speaker 1: himself as a he projects probably as more of a nickel,
Speaker 1: but a guy that coming out of Senior Bowl week,
Speaker 1: teams maybe have a little bit better opinion of what
Speaker 1: did you think of MVP or offensive MVP of the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl Kellen Mond. And I know a lot of
Speaker 1: fans around here want to hear about Kellen Mond because
Speaker 1: they just grew up Aggie fans. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: lot of Texas and Maggie's around this state. And I
Speaker 1: know with Kellen Mond, there's been kind of wishy washy
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to his thought process, the whenever it
Speaker 1: comes to his draft rating. I mean, the inconsistency is
Speaker 1: on the field and off the field with him in
Speaker 1: terms of the grading of him and the scouting of him. Dan,
Speaker 1: what did you think about him throughout the week? And
Speaker 1: ultimately Coleman in that MVP outing during the game. But
Speaker 1: I kind of want to just hear about what he
Speaker 1: did at the Senior Bowl. I think it mirrored what
Speaker 1: we saw on tape for his career at A and M.
Speaker 1: And the thing that just bothers me the most with
Speaker 1: hitting with Mind is I could show you a clip
Speaker 1: from or a game from his sophomore year and then
Speaker 1: show you a game from a senior year and it
Speaker 1: looks like it was, you know, the same same guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I think the same level of inconsistency. He's
Speaker 1: clearly talented. Clearly he's got, you know, a good arm,
Speaker 1: he can move around a little bit, He'll make some
Speaker 1: really impressive throws. His highlights are as impressive as anybody's.
Speaker 1: But when you talk about the full scope, the body
Speaker 1: of work, I just see the same player that we
Speaker 1: saw as a sophomore that we're seeing as a senior.
Speaker 1: And we saw during practice up and down with his
Speaker 1: decision making, up and down with his placement down the field.
Speaker 1: So it's easy to look at his highlight tape and say, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy can play. But when you look at the
Speaker 1: full body of work, it's just it's just a back
Speaker 1: and so I find it really hard to get excited
Speaker 1: about any of these senior quarterbacks. Uh, there's not a
Speaker 1: there's not a single senior quarterback that I'm really overly
Speaker 1: excited about. And you know, Man's kind of in that
Speaker 1: mix with with Jamie Newman and you know the rest
Speaker 1: of that group that probably gonna go somewhere on day three.
Speaker 1: It's just, uh, you know, hard to guess exactly where.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna come down to teams and their preference
Speaker 1: and exactly what they're looking for. You're still not very
Speaker 1: excited about mac Jones either. Well, I don't consider he's
Speaker 1: not a senior, so you know, he's all the underclassmen
Speaker 1: I can I can get there, even Davis mills from Stanford.
Speaker 1: I there's something there. And I you know, I think
Speaker 1: that there's a little bit of optimism for a Davis
Speaker 1: mills Um. You know, I think he's got a good
Speaker 1: chance to be drafted ahead of Kyle trask Um and
Speaker 1: because he's got starter potential. So and mac Jones, he
Speaker 1: I thought he helped himself by being there. I think
Speaker 1: the obvious connection now is going to be with the Panthers.
Speaker 1: Matt Rule couldn't help but rave about mac Jones, the
Speaker 1: way he handled himself during practice behind the scenes, his leadership,
Speaker 1: the way guys follow him. It's going to be interesting
Speaker 1: to see how that might play out on draft day
Speaker 1: with the Panthers having a lot more intimate knowledge of
Speaker 1: mac Jones and how he's wired compared to some of
Speaker 1: these other teams that are looking at quarterbacks in the draft.
Speaker 1: So's it's a really interesting group of quarterbacks this year
Speaker 1: where the first six drafted might all be underclassmen than
Speaker 1: the other you know, three or four drafted could be seniors, Jeff,
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to the quarterback position, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: talking about these senior quarterbacks, but I mean it's a
Speaker 1: it's a very heavy field. Whenever you look at Trevor Lawrence, Justine,
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, all of which that will probably
Speaker 1: go inside the top ten. And now there's been rumblings
Speaker 1: around Dak Prescott and of course we're coming down to
Speaker 1: the wire. I mean, the transition tag period starts in
Speaker 1: nineteen days and it ends a couple weeks after that
Speaker 1: or three weeks after that, So ultimately your clock is
Speaker 1: running out on Dak Prescott if you're the Cowboys right now.
Speaker 1: And Brian broad Us has said this previously on the
Speaker 1: Tuesday show that once that time starts clicking and it
Speaker 1: starts taking a little bit further down, and you have
Speaker 1: to franchise Dak Prescott, you're gonna have to start talking
Speaker 1: about one of these quarterbacks. But which quarterback would you
Speaker 1: want to talk about? If you were the Dallas Cowboys. Oh,
Speaker 1: I would like to quote the great Kevin Turner if
Speaker 1: I could, let you know. He's pretty good at this stuff.
Speaker 1: I hate, I hate quarterbacks. So if you are the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: what you should do is sign your top eight quarterback
Speaker 1: in the NFL. You should have done that two years ago,
Speaker 1: one year ago, and then you should do it again. Now.
Speaker 1: Now if because you are the Cowboys front office, you've
Speaker 1: screwed this up so royally that now it's gonna be really,
Speaker 1: really hard because Dak's like, well, I'm on the doorstep
Speaker 1: to free agency, so you're gonna have to blow me away.
Speaker 1: And Jerry's still like, hey, you signed what we offer
Speaker 1: you and that's it. And yeah, you may have to
Speaker 1: look at a guy because you have a top ten pick.
Speaker 1: And I think realistically you're gonna be talking about either
Speaker 1: Justin Fields, Trey Lance, or Mac Jones because just going
Speaker 1: off of what we hear and what we're seeing. I
Speaker 1: would imagine that Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence are gone,
Speaker 1: and then it's kind of the wild card what is
Speaker 1: the order and how quickly do they all go? Because
Speaker 1: I could totally see a scenario where five quarterbacks are
Speaker 1: gone when the Cowboys pick. I could see that, yeah,
Speaker 1: But I think we also have to acknowledge it's possible
Speaker 1: that two quarterbacks are gone when the Cowboys pick. It's
Speaker 1: the weirdest top of a draft that I've seen in
Speaker 1: the seven years that I've been doing this, because I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're like, if you're not sold, there's
Speaker 1: teams in the top five or in the top eight
Speaker 1: that there's at least four or five of them that
Speaker 1: I think should take quarterbacks. But if you don't believe
Speaker 1: in the guys that are available this year, then you're
Speaker 1: not going to because all of these teams have other
Speaker 1: options they could roll with. So if you're the Cowboys
Speaker 1: and it's Hey, which guy are you keeping an eye on?
Speaker 1: I guess the most likely answer would probably be Trey
Speaker 1: Lance North Dakota State, And that would be wild to me.
Speaker 1: If the Cowboys were like, Hey, we're gonna move on
Speaker 1: from a top eight quarterback in the league because this
Speaker 1: guy's got a big harmonies athletic and maybe you could
Speaker 1: be good one day. So Cowboys, sign your quarterback. Come
Speaker 1: on the magical mystery ride with me real quick. I'm
Speaker 1: coming to you now as half myself, Kevin Turner and
Speaker 1: half the Dallas Cowboys. And the fact that we're even
Speaker 1: talking about this already tells you that the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable being lucy goosey at the quarterback position, because
Speaker 1: otherwise the deal would have already been done, like it
Speaker 1: just would have been done. And I don't want to
Speaker 1: hear the stuff about Dak's side and what they're demanding.
Speaker 1: There's a market value. The deal could have been done
Speaker 1: and should have been done, all right, And that's the
Speaker 1: end of that. That being said, after taking a full dive,
Speaker 1: I carved out some special time to really go through
Speaker 1: all few of the games that we have of North
Speaker 1: Dakotas day. My quarterback too this year is Trey Lance,
Speaker 1: and I am so comfortable with that. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: I'm kind of in love with the guy again. I'm
Speaker 1: willing to be loosey goosey at the quarterback position, I
Speaker 1: guess right, because I mean, I think Dak should be
Speaker 1: your quarterback. But if we're gonna get to this point,
Speaker 1: this hypothetical area that we're talking about, which would even
Speaker 1: have us talking about a quarterback, that I'm doing whatever
Speaker 1: it takes to get Trey Lance on my team. If
Speaker 1: I'm the Dallas Cowboys, he would have an ideal one
Speaker 1: year to sit while Dak is on the tag and
Speaker 1: then we are ready to go. I think his ball
Speaker 1: placement and armed talent is just as good as as
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson's better than Zach Wilson personally. I think the
Speaker 1: way that he has he feels pressure in the pocket,
Speaker 1: like anyone can play when the pocket's clean, right, but
Speaker 1: when he can fill it in the pocket, And that's
Speaker 1: something that I didn't always see with Justin Fields. A
Speaker 1: little escapability. Yeah, I can kind of kind of move around.
Speaker 1: I didn't always feel it. Trey Lance feels it. And
Speaker 1: for a nineteen year old to have that season he had,
Speaker 1: he looked pretty advanced. He didn't look like a nineteen
Speaker 1: year old. And I understand Division two, I get all
Speaker 1: that stuff, But if we're if we're rolling dice anyway
Speaker 1: at the position. That's my guy, because there's a whole
Speaker 1: other dynamic. He adds. Watch the James Madison game from
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, which he only throws the ball like fifteen
Speaker 1: times that game. He runs the ball thirty times in
Speaker 1: that game. Is the new GM that game an entire
Speaker 1: other to the game? Yeah, twenty nineteen, he would be
Speaker 1: in that game, right, Trey versus the news, that's that's
Speaker 1: that's fascinating. Uh, is your guy? No, it's very boord.
Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about a guy, and I like
Speaker 1: Trey Lance, but I mean we have to recognize just
Speaker 1: how unprecedented of an evaluation this is. The guy has
Speaker 1: seventeen career starts, all versus FCS competition. Uh. You look
Speaker 1: at his college resume and the stats just on paper
Speaker 1: look great eight but you know many times he trailed
Speaker 1: in the second half of a game in his career once. Like,
Speaker 1: there's so much about him we don't know. There are
Speaker 1: so many one read and then run type of plays
Speaker 1: on his film where he's not making full read or
Speaker 1: full field reads. He's not going through progressions things like that.
Speaker 1: You know last year, this this great season that he
Speaker 1: had which was statistically great sixteen to those season national
Speaker 1: title fcs. He averaged in his career eighteen point six
Speaker 1: pass attempts per game. Meanwhile the running game, they averaged
Speaker 1: forty five rush attempts per game. At the North Dakota State,
Speaker 1: they leaned on that rush, that run game. That's that's
Speaker 1: what their offense is based off of, and then they would,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, pass off of that. So I love
Speaker 1: the traits. I think that the poise that he shows
Speaker 1: is really impressive. You know, the competitive nature that he has.
Speaker 1: I like, but there's just there's so much about him
Speaker 1: as a quarterback that we don't know. And maybe he'll
Speaker 1: get there, but I mean we have to recognize just
Speaker 1: how big of a risk that it is, not not
Speaker 1: just you know, moving on from dak and going to
Speaker 1: a new quarterback, but moving on to a new quarterback
Speaker 1: that is so we just there's so many unknown variables
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, for me, I'm a Zach Wilson guy.
Speaker 1: I wrote about it back in October. I took a
Speaker 1: lot of heat when I said he's, you know, right
Speaker 1: there in the mix to be quarterback too, behind Trevor
Speaker 1: Lawrence UM. But I think more people are catching on
Speaker 1: that Zach Wilson is he's legit and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: when I quarterback, it's such a hard position to evaluate,
Speaker 1: and you know, I've had plenty of misses doing this,
Speaker 1: so you know, don't. I am not like the final
Speaker 1: voice on on these quarterback prospects. But something that I
Speaker 1: really look for is the ability to make the great
Speaker 1: spontaneous decision. That's a that's an old Bill Walsh thing.
Speaker 1: You want guys that can make that spontaneous decision and
Speaker 1: create and to me, that's Zach Wilson. His ability, his
Speaker 1: feel for throwing off platform, his field, for ball placement
Speaker 1: down the field, He's naturally accurate. He's got a whip
Speaker 1: of an arm. I wish you were a little bit bigger.
Speaker 1: There's some durability concerns there, uh, you know, just that narrow,
Speaker 1: narrow frame. But you know, and sometimes he'll play an overdrive,
Speaker 1: he'll you know, bail the pocket before he needs to.
Speaker 1: Mechanics get a little wild that that that's part of
Speaker 1: his game. But he has a natural ball placement to
Speaker 1: him down the field. I think there's a lot you
Speaker 1: can do with Zach Wilson. I think he's the clear
Speaker 1: number two quarterback in this draft, but it's it's just
Speaker 1: a really intriguing group of pastors because they're all really
Speaker 1: really talented, and you know, they could all end up
Speaker 1: being starters in this league. Just to play Devil's advocate here, Dane,
Speaker 1: and you were talking about with Trey Lance and his
Speaker 1: competition and the unknowns, and there certainly are a ton
Speaker 1: of unknowns coming from an FCS level regardless. But with
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson, are there not still a ton of unknowns?
Speaker 1: Because he had one good season? I mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the decent year twenty nineteen, but I mean his completion
Speaker 1: percentage went from sixty two to seventy three in one
Speaker 1: year and then all of a sudden, he's a top
Speaker 1: two quarterback in this draft, behind Trevor Lawrence. But he
Speaker 1: also played kind of lesser competition than the guys like
Speaker 1: a Justin Fields and a Trevor Lawrence and a Kyle
Speaker 1: Trask and a Mac Jones. Because you look at by
Speaker 1: US competition, Troy Navy Louisiana Attack UTSA, Texas State, North
Speaker 1: Alabama Coastal Carolina was their toughest game. I think overall,
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of question marks around Zach Wilson.
Speaker 1: White is Zach Wilson more of a lock than a
Speaker 1: maybe a Trey Lance. Well, I just think we know
Speaker 1: more about Wilson, and I mean, you're absolutely right in
Speaker 1: terms of the level of competition, But I also think
Speaker 1: there's a pretty big gap from you know, talking about
Speaker 1: Troy compared to the Missouri Valley Conference. Yes, yes, level,
Speaker 1: And you know that's just the facts. Nothing against that
Speaker 1: level of camp. It's just there's there's a different competition
Speaker 1: level in terms of talent. So, you know, Zach Wilson
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, he also benefited from a
Speaker 1: strong run game. A strong run game, reliable targets to
Speaker 1: throw to a good offensive line. So yeah, absolutely, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think Zach Wilson's a sure thing by any means.
Speaker 1: I just I'm a more believer, more of a believer
Speaker 1: in his talent um. I think we've seen more, we
Speaker 1: know more about him compared to uh, Trey Lance. And
Speaker 1: then you know, let's just throw Justin Fields into the mix,
Speaker 1: you know, so we can you know, talk about him
Speaker 1: as well. I think that there's a lot to like
Speaker 1: about him from a physical perspective. Uh, you know, he's
Speaker 1: I think he's a naturally accurate guy. We saw that
Speaker 1: in the Clemson game. When when he's in rhythm and
Speaker 1: everything is going right, the play design is where it
Speaker 1: needs to be. He looks outstanding. But when that first
Speaker 1: read's taken away, or you know, the defense does something
Speaker 1: with their coverages or their blitz that he hasn't accounted for,
Speaker 1: that's where the play breaks down. And that's where he
Speaker 1: needs to have a better plan B, C, and D
Speaker 1: and play with more urgency if he's going to make
Speaker 1: it at the next level. But I think the intangibles,
Speaker 1: the athleticism, the accuracy, it's all there for fields to
Speaker 1: make it. It's just he needs to get over that
Speaker 1: hump when it comes down to making that spontaneous decision.
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, was Zach Wilson. Hey, hey, Jeff, can
Speaker 1: I run something by you real quick? Because another thing
Speaker 1: I want to throw in about really just the position
Speaker 1: in general. And I do think the Cowboys will get
Speaker 1: a deal done with Chach. I think they will do
Speaker 1: it reluctantly. But if they don't, that tells you that
Speaker 1: they didn't value their investment. Okay, since I can do
Speaker 1: let a top eight quarterback in the league walk, well,
Speaker 1: then I've got no problem. Let my quarterback run twenty
Speaker 1: times a game if he needs to. And Trey Lance
Speaker 1: is a guy who I think could probably do that
Speaker 1: for you. I guess I'm done looking for the perfect passer. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm done looking for all that. If my team right
Speaker 1: here is not going to go ahead and go full
Speaker 1: forward the investment because they want to sign the running
Speaker 1: back in the linebacker like that, that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I kind of go. Well, apparently I don't need to
Speaker 1: worry about developing this guy into some you know, long
Speaker 1: term thing, and I don't need this guy to be
Speaker 1: a fifteen year quarterback for me, which is ideal. Ideally
Speaker 1: you have that guy who's your quarterback for ten and
Speaker 1: fifteen years and he becomes an excellent drop back passer
Speaker 1: and all those things. Right, Well, if you're just not
Speaker 1: gonna sign the guy because you don't believe it giving
Speaker 1: him that much money, because you don't believe it giving
Speaker 1: him market value, then screw it. Treat the quarterbacks like
Speaker 1: the running backs, then Burnham, who cares? What do you
Speaker 1: think about that, Jeff? I mean, I dig the idea
Speaker 1: of unleashing the running quarterback. I think it's fun. I
Speaker 1: love watching the Ravens play. I don't know how Amari
Speaker 1: Cooper and Ceedee Lamb would feel about it, probably because
Speaker 1: you know, I also I also like to feel to
Speaker 1: throw the ball. So you know, a quarterback who's gonna
Speaker 1: run like what does Lamar do? Probably fifteen times a game,
Speaker 1: give or take. I think it's fun for winning. I
Speaker 1: think it's a good way to be consistently good. And
Speaker 1: if you're never going to pay a quarterback, I don't
Speaker 1: mind that approach. But I've got a team that's got
Speaker 1: some really good receivers and a really good quarterback. So
Speaker 1: but Kat, your love for Trey Lance makes me think
Speaker 1: I'm cool with him and we can we can rock
Speaker 1: with him because I believe he can throw. H. We
Speaker 1: don't have to risk our guy fifteen times a game,
Speaker 1: do we. We don't have to to do that, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't paint the picture that he's like Jet Yeah,
Speaker 1: we could and could. I don't want to paint the
Speaker 1: picture that he's like not a throwing quarterback or whatever. Like, uh,
Speaker 1: and we all, I mean, I don't know. I don'
Speaker 1: want to speak for everyone, um, but I think we
Speaker 1: all kind of thought Lamar Jackson, we knew we had
Speaker 1: work to do in the passing game, but I think
Speaker 1: we all thought he might continue to take a step forward,
Speaker 1: maybe not have that regression. You kind of go look
Speaker 1: at their wide receivers and in Baltimore like no offense,
Speaker 1: but like they brought in Dez Bryant, they were that desperate, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they need a little more a few more weapons out
Speaker 1: there to kind of help him out a little bit.
Speaker 1: But like, I don't like, I don't think those are
Speaker 1: like I want to be careful when we talk about
Speaker 1: other players like that we're not talking about a comparison.
Speaker 1: A couple of things about Trey Lance that early jumped
Speaker 1: out to me. And again, I'm talking about a nineteen
Speaker 1: year old, and I'm talking about a guy who ideally
Speaker 1: doesn't play again next year. Hopefully we get a preseason
Speaker 1: game and maybe he can play then, but I hopefully
Speaker 1: he gets time to sit behind someone for one year
Speaker 1: at least. And one thing that I think about with
Speaker 1: Trey Lance, some little things just like playing off of
Speaker 1: play action because they did run a lot that was
Speaker 1: very helpful for him, are throwing on the run and
Speaker 1: things like that. You can see that and see those
Speaker 1: skills and then along with when you have you know,
Speaker 1: blitz is coming from the blind side, just when you're
Speaker 1: when you can't see it, to fill it and know
Speaker 1: it and step up out of it. Just looks very
Speaker 1: comfortable doing that. And those are the types of things
Speaker 1: that I really love. When the guy's keeping his eyes downfield,
Speaker 1: when he's in the pocket and moving around, and I
Speaker 1: understand some of the things that Dame was talking about.
Speaker 1: You know, we're we got to make sure this guy
Speaker 1: can throw with the right amount of anticipation and things
Speaker 1: like that. How accurate is he on the five yard drag?
Speaker 1: You know, all day long, you didn't see a ton
Speaker 1: of that, and a lot of his throws are throwing
Speaker 1: it down the field quite a bit. You know, you
Speaker 1: want to see a little more accuracy and a little
Speaker 1: more consistency, and quite frankly, more tape. In general, you
Speaker 1: want to see more tape. But I am I'm pretty
Speaker 1: smitten with my guy, Trey Lance right now, and I
Speaker 1: think based on what I've heard, and I don't know
Speaker 1: the guy, so if I could text you, I would,
Speaker 1: But I think you've got a guy who's got a
Speaker 1: pretty good football IQ and things like that. Who who's
Speaker 1: going to be uh, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be Jen Jason Garrett here, but you know, kind of right,
Speaker 1: kind of guy type type of thing. You hear those things,
Speaker 1: so I think that's good. But we heard those things
Speaker 1: about Carson Wentz too, So yeah, it's the same program.
Speaker 1: Last think I'll say about this, last think I'll say
Speaker 1: about these quarterbacks is that I think this year, more
Speaker 1: than more than ever, with these this group of quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: it's going to come down to the interviews, you know,
Speaker 1: when just to figure out where are they in their
Speaker 1: mental development? How much do they know, how much do
Speaker 1: they not know? How much are they able to learn?
Speaker 1: How those interviews go are going to be just paramount
Speaker 1: when they throw out the tape on and they say, okay,
Speaker 1: well what are you looking at here down in distance?
Speaker 1: What's the coverages? You know? Are you setting the protections?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Okay, this read's taken away? What
Speaker 1: is your what is your outlet? What do you what's
Speaker 1: your thought process? Right now? Just going through all of
Speaker 1: these positive and negative plays and to get a better
Speaker 1: feel for where they are mentally, that more than that's
Speaker 1: that's the key every year that we're not really we
Speaker 1: don't have access to that information, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's a big missing piece of the evaluation process for
Speaker 1: those of us on the outside when evaluating quarterbacks, but
Speaker 1: more so than ever because college offenses are getting easier
Speaker 1: and easier to operate, and so I think for a
Speaker 1: lot of these quarterbacks they're less prepared for the NFL
Speaker 1: where and so for these the interview process, it's going
Speaker 1: to be important for them to really understand the questions
Speaker 1: that are going to be asked and to be ready
Speaker 1: for Yeah, and it's going to be virtual this year
Speaker 1: because of everything that's gone on with COVID nineteen. So
Speaker 1: add an extra wrench into it is how how these
Speaker 1: virtual interviews are going to go. They did a lot
Speaker 1: of that last year as well because there were no
Speaker 1: thirty days. It's because there was no Dallas Day. But
Speaker 1: it's gonna be much of the same this year. So
Speaker 1: hopefully the Cowboys in really everybody around the league able
Speaker 1: to evaluate the right way. And just one thing added
Speaker 1: on onto what Katie and Jeff we're talking about before.
Speaker 1: We had to break here really quickly, but the fact
Speaker 1: that you have Kellvin Moore as your offensive coordinator, Katie,
Speaker 1: makes me think that your theory of running the football
Speaker 1: with your quarterback may be debunked just a hair because
Speaker 1: he doesn't like running the football a whole lot. You
Speaker 1: can kind of see that as a former quarterback himself.
Speaker 1: They like to throw the football, and so I think
Speaker 1: Trey Lanz can certainly do that. But you're not gonna
Speaker 1: run a thirty times a day. So I guess Jeff,
Speaker 1: you can. You can rest easy at night thinking that
Speaker 1: Trey Lance wouldn't run at thirty times in a game
Speaker 1: every single time, but one of the quarterback. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Let's let's sign Dak and not have to worry about that.
Speaker 1: I agree. Let's go to break. When we come back
Speaker 1: here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about a little bit of Twitter on the twenty.
Speaker 1: We've got some great questions coming in from you guys
Speaker 1: on Twitter when we return right after this. There's nothing
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Speaker 1: Here it's nineteen o eight. Don't you think we should
Speaker 1: get electricity and stop using candles to see it night?
Speaker 1: It's just electricity lights up the room fast, It's more
Speaker 1: reliable than candles blowing out, and people seem to love
Speaker 1: it nationwide. Well, candles, DA, did you just run into
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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show? Back here with a
Speaker 1: second segment to hear the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show.
Speaker 1: We've got Kevin KT Turner, Jeff Cavanaugh, Daan Brugler. I'm
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeomans as always here on the Draft Show every
Speaker 1: Thursday at ten am Central time. Glad you uh you
Speaker 1: guys are along for the ride. So now we've got
Speaker 1: some time to hit up these Twitter questions and go
Speaker 1: into some Twitter. On the twenty on the Twitter, Chris
Speaker 1: Beam in the back punching the buttons and doing a
Speaker 1: fantastic job as always. Okay, we're gonna start things off
Speaker 1: with John Marshall on Twitter. He says, I want the
Speaker 1: team to fix the defensive tackle position. I want to
Speaker 1: also add to that, John, So do we all? We
Speaker 1: all want that to happen, he says, And Dan Quinn's defense.
Speaker 1: Is Tristan Hill and Evil Gallimore more suited to a
Speaker 1: three tech or more of a pin trading one technique?
Speaker 1: And what are the top defensive tackles on the board?
Speaker 1: Who can feel each of those roles? Jeff Cavana will
Speaker 1: start with you. Oh, I think, to me, both Tristan
Speaker 1: Hill and Neville Gallimore are guys that are your rotational
Speaker 1: three techniques that you're gonna line up over the guard.
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of them is a guy
Speaker 1: that you necessarily want having to battle double teams because
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of them is going to
Speaker 1: handle it very well. So to me, I think in
Speaker 1: this draft, if you're looking for a defensive tackle, I'm
Speaker 1: looking for the big boys, and it's a really interesting group.
Speaker 1: Because I will agree with Dane that I think to me,
Speaker 1: Christian Barmore is the best defensive tackle prospect because I
Speaker 1: think Alabama, because I think he offers both where I
Speaker 1: think he is powerful enough to play the run and
Speaker 1: battle and hold his ground, but he also offers some
Speaker 1: upside as a pass rusher. And then I do like
Speaker 1: Marvin Wilson despite the not good tape of twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: I still think even down his twenty twenty tape, the
Speaker 1: Florida State defensive tackle, former five star recruit, there's just
Speaker 1: something about when I see guys that have violent hands
Speaker 1: that are hard for guys to sort of maintain blocks on.
Speaker 1: I like that in a player. And then in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: when you just watch him when he hits people, it
Speaker 1: looks like it hurts a lot, and I like that
Speaker 1: in my defensive tackles. So Christian Barmore, Marvin Wilson, and
Speaker 1: then I would throw in NC States. Let's tell me
Speaker 1: to say his first name, Alam McNeil. You know, he's
Speaker 1: a guy that I think when you watch him play
Speaker 1: nose tackle, knows how to extend on guys, knows how
Speaker 1: to get rid of blockers, has a nice first step.
Speaker 1: So I think he's one of those guys that is
Speaker 1: a one technique but also has a little bit of
Speaker 1: quickness that you want in a three technique. So I
Speaker 1: think that would be a really good fit for this team.
Speaker 1: So those the first three names that jump to mind
Speaker 1: for me. I want to throw another name out there,
Speaker 1: and I'm not reaching for this guy, but if you're
Speaker 1: telling me we get to round four, maybe he's still there.
Speaker 1: I would take a shot at three hundred and forty
Speaker 1: five pound Tyler Shelvin from LSU. Didn't love his tape,
Speaker 1: don't think he's got great get off. I said his way,
Speaker 1: three hundred and forty five pounds. He's gonna eat space,
Speaker 1: he's gonna take on double teams. He has a run player.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna add anything as a pass rusher. But
Speaker 1: if we get the feeling that Dan Quinn wants that
Speaker 1: bigger defensive tackle on the inside, I think Tyler Shelvin's
Speaker 1: a name I've kind of written down as kind of
Speaker 1: a guy who I think had a little hot, a
Speaker 1: little more upside, a little more ceiling, and maybe didn't
Speaker 1: show out as much as people might have wanted at LSU,
Speaker 1: and he did opt out, you know, twenty twenty. But
Speaker 1: I think that's a guy. If I'm in round four
Speaker 1: and he sides out of the top one hundred, that's
Speaker 1: a guy I'm taking a look at because I do
Speaker 1: see some untapped potential there. Yeah, those are good names.
Speaker 1: I mean the two that came to mind, where McNeil
Speaker 1: and Shelvin. I think both probably are gonna go in
Speaker 1: the third round. Maybe I don't. We'll want to see
Speaker 1: if they wait maybe a little bit longer. An interesting
Speaker 1: play or Bobby Brown from A and m Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he flashes, but he's inconsistent. Um. You know, I
Speaker 1: think he could play some of that one because he
Speaker 1: does have some power to him, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think that he has yet to play his best football.
Speaker 1: He's he's still young. He hasn't turned twenty one until
Speaker 1: I think August, so um, you know, Bobby Brown is
Speaker 1: one of those intriguing upside guys in a class that
Speaker 1: is just a not good nose tackle group. And he
Speaker 1: played his high school ball right down the street from
Speaker 1: AT and T Stadium, from Lamar High School in Arlington,
Speaker 1: so hey, He's he's known the area. He's been around here,
Speaker 1: and they've had a lot of good defensive line talent
Speaker 1: coming out of Arlington. Kind of keeping with this though, Dane,
Speaker 1: I've got kind of a two part question for you here,
Speaker 1: and this is from Connor Livesey are a good friend
Speaker 1: on Twitter who's been trying to ask a question for
Speaker 1: like four weeks and I keep missing his question somehouse
Speaker 1: whenever the show comes up. So I'll get to this,
Speaker 1: and I know I'm the worst. What area of McNeil's
Speaker 1: game do you guys have questions about? And why isn't
Speaker 1: he defensive tackle? Number one? That's the first part of
Speaker 1: the question, Dan. The second one is he wants a
Speaker 1: scouting report on Syracuse defensive tackle McKinley Williams and why
Speaker 1: was his Clemson tape the best defensive line tape of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Well with McNeil, Uh, you know, I think
Speaker 1: there's there's plenty to like about him. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he played. He reminds me a lot of or you
Speaker 1: didn't get. He gave me flashbacks of watching Javon Hargrave
Speaker 1: as a prospect. He's he's heavy handed, He's got that
Speaker 1: body type that you want to thick thighs, that thick
Speaker 1: torso that bubble that you're looking for in those tackle
Speaker 1: bottom exactly. Uh. And he plays close to the ground,
Speaker 1: so he's got some flexibility to him. Uh. He eats
Speaker 1: up blockers, he wins gaps. Uh, he can reset the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage with his power. He just I don't
Speaker 1: I didn't see a very rangey player. Um. And I
Speaker 1: thought he was part of a pretty heavy rotation that
Speaker 1: really allowed him to stay fresh. Something to consider as well.
Speaker 1: But you know, he's he's an easy player to like. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know that he's going to It's tough with
Speaker 1: defensive tackles because you have to really understand what's their
Speaker 1: impact potential, you know, especially if they're not It's one thing.
Speaker 1: If they're a pass rusher, then it's a little easier
Speaker 1: to project their impact potential. If they're not a pass rusher,
Speaker 1: then that's where it gets a little bit tougher too,
Speaker 1: to truly understand what's their value in the draft. You know,
Speaker 1: is are they a third round pick, fourth rup you know?
Speaker 1: And I think McNeil falls in that category where I
Speaker 1: don't know how much he gives you as a pass rusher,
Speaker 1: and so what is that exact value? And so that's
Speaker 1: why I think he's I think he's a day two player,
Speaker 1: but even that maybe more of a third than a two.
Speaker 1: It just you know it's gonna come down to preference,
Speaker 1: and we have the factor in two. This is a
Speaker 1: week nose tackle group, So a guy like McNeil could
Speaker 1: get pushed up the board for a team that you
Speaker 1: know is looking for that guy if you're picking it
Speaker 1: to say the Cowboys, for example, If you're picking mid
Speaker 1: second round and you know you are looking at nose
Speaker 1: tackle and you don't feel great about the guys that
Speaker 1: are going to be their third fourth round, you might
Speaker 1: feel pressured to maybe pull the trigger a little bit earlier.
Speaker 1: And not just the Cowboys, but several teams there are
Speaker 1: in the market for a one technique or you know,
Speaker 1: a player that can play over the center. So it's
Speaker 1: a it's a really interesting dynamic with these nose tackles.
Speaker 1: What about McKinley Williams. Have to handle McKinley Williams. Oh,
Speaker 1: yes from Syracuse. Uh, I don't know. I need to
Speaker 1: see more in him. Um, I don't think I have
Speaker 1: a great feel for him yet and where he fits
Speaker 1: in this class. But give me time on him. We'll
Speaker 1: come back to Okay, that's fine. Yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: still what is it, February fourth at this point, So
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Connor's just ahead of
Speaker 1: all of us. That's the only issue. Um Now, I
Speaker 1: don't think Connor's ahead of Dane. Oh no, he's not.
Speaker 1: He's not ahead of Dane. Don't work. Anyone's ahead of
Speaker 1: nobody's had a date. Even some of the gms in
Speaker 1: the league or not ahead of Dane. Most of the
Speaker 1: gems in the league or not ahead of Dane. Okay.
Speaker 1: Kevin on Twitter asked this, and I'm gonna go straight
Speaker 1: to Katie with this one, and he said some would disagree.
Speaker 1: How did the Cowboys pass on Kyle Pitts if he's
Speaker 1: there at ten? And what is your opinion on Tyson
Speaker 1: Campbell with the second pick meaning forty fourth overall? I mean,
Speaker 1: you pass on him if a cornerbacks on the board,
Speaker 1: or you know, and if it's a player that you're
Speaker 1: in love with is on the board, or if Trey
Speaker 1: Lance is on the board because you've decided not to
Speaker 1: sign back, that's how you pass on kW Pits. But
Speaker 1: I mean, like I understand the kle Pits think. I
Speaker 1: think you can get by tied in with another year
Speaker 1: of Jarwin, another year of Dalton Shoult as your backup.
Speaker 1: If they want to bring back the Bell Dozers tied
Speaker 1: in three, I'm all about it. And that's how you
Speaker 1: pass on kal Pits. I love Kyl Pits and other
Speaker 1: than there's a good chance Cowpits is not there at ten.
Speaker 1: But I just it's asset allocation and roster building is
Speaker 1: more important than ever when you are paying your quarterback
Speaker 1: a lot, and the Cowboys are going to be paying
Speaker 1: their quarterback a lot because they're going to either tack
Speaker 1: him or sign him. And that's all important, and that's
Speaker 1: what you should do. You should pay your quarterback. Tyson
Speaker 1: Campbell is very interesting and it kind of leads to
Speaker 1: something we're gonna talk about in the third segment about
Speaker 1: a cornerback size. I'm a little higher on Eric Stokes
Speaker 1: than Tyson Campbell, but Tyson Campbell's the better athlete. Tyson
Speaker 1: Campbell is longer. I've got him at six two five.
Speaker 1: The traits are all there, the length, the speed, you know,
Speaker 1: those are the things that are all there. There are times,
Speaker 1: and it's not always. There are times when it just
Speaker 1: doesn't look natural playing the cornerback position. You go watch
Speaker 1: Patrick certain play, it looks pretty natural. Even one of
Speaker 1: the Eric Stokes take. To me, he looks pretty natural
Speaker 1: on the other side. But you know, Tyson Campbell's gonna
Speaker 1: get drafted higher than Eric Stokes because he's got better traits.
Speaker 1: And it's all about traits. But I think he did
Speaker 1: a good job, you know, carrying wide receivers across the field.
Speaker 1: You could see that, and he could keep up with
Speaker 1: them because he's got good recovery speed. If they do
Speaker 1: get a step or two on him, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, give it with this link. I want him
Speaker 1: getting a more of a jam at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1: You didn't always see that when he was up and
Speaker 1: pressed technique. But to me, tons of ceiling. I got
Speaker 1: a lot of ceiling with Trevon Diggs over there as well.
Speaker 1: I like Tyson Campbell. I've got a second round grade
Speaker 1: on him. But there are just some things that you
Speaker 1: want to be you want to see shut up with him.
Speaker 1: I think one thing with him too. When you watched
Speaker 1: him this year offenses, we're not afraid to throw at
Speaker 1: him because it's tough, because he has a lot of
Speaker 1: the traits. But I mean when you when you are
Speaker 1: drafting a corner in the first you know, fifty or
Speaker 1: sixty pick. You want a guy that can get his
Speaker 1: head turned and find the football, and he just didn't
Speaker 1: do that consistently, and that really worries me. On Campbell,
Speaker 1: so I agree with a lot of what you said.
Speaker 1: Traits are easy to like, and I you know, the
Speaker 1: length size. Uh, you know, he is a very smooth
Speaker 1: athlete for a guy that big. But you know it's
Speaker 1: the way offensive attacked him. Uh, really do make you worry.
Speaker 1: Oh and one thing on McKinley Williams. The reason I
Speaker 1: have not seen enough of him yet he's not in
Speaker 1: his draft class. So I just want to put that
Speaker 1: out there. Oh wow, well that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a See. Anytime Dane says give me time,
Speaker 1: it means the dude's not not even in the draft
Speaker 1: at all. Just to just to clarify, I'm falling back
Speaker 1: to school, so it's gracious, real quick on Campbell, I'll
Speaker 1: be quick here. I have him just on my board
Speaker 1: right now. I have him as my eighth cornerback. So
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's probably second round, right, that's probably
Speaker 1: that's probably the potential to get the top sixty picks.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's tough when you compare him to
Speaker 1: you know, Eric Stokes and Mela fawn Woo and Aaron
Speaker 1: Robinson Elijah Molden, Like, there's different types of corner. Now
Speaker 1: you're cooking, Dane, I don't want to. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't want to step on If we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: this in a little we are, but a lot of
Speaker 1: different types of corners, So we'll save it for a
Speaker 1: little bit later. Jeff, do you want me to save
Speaker 1: it or do you wanna Do you want to go
Speaker 1: to break real quick? I mean we could come right
Speaker 1: back in here. Yeah, I mean it's just a carryover
Speaker 1: of this topic. For instance, Um Campbell and Stokes are
Speaker 1: my tenth and eleventh corners and kind of this draft
Speaker 1: and it plays into what we're gonna talk about next,
Speaker 1: the reason behind it that makes sense. We're back in
Speaker 1: a tasty treat that's sweeping air waves and taste buds.
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Speaker 1: as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers
Speaker 1: ways to make lenses as unique as you. Varilux for
Speaker 1: super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Crisol for
Speaker 1: freedom from glare. Three cutting edge solutions in a single
Speaker 1: unique lens. So whatever your needs, insist on sealor visit
Speaker 1: your local SLOR experts and find a perfect lens for
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Speaker 1: it's nineteen oh eight. Don't you think we should get
Speaker 1: electricity and stop using candles to see it night? It's
Speaker 1: just electricity lights up the room fast. It's more reliable
Speaker 1: than candles blowing out and people seem to love it
Speaker 1: nationwide candles, dar did you just run into the wall?
Speaker 1: I have a new candle please. Historically, switching to new
Speaker 1: technology is a no brainer. Today it's AT and T
Speaker 1: five G, fast, reliable, secure and nationwide. Switch to AT
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show back here on
Speaker 1: the Draft Show final fifteen minutes or so. Glad you're
Speaker 1: with us. Jeff Cavanaugh, Dame Burgler, Kevin, Katie Turner. I'm
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeomans. And this is the conversation Jeff has been
Speaker 1: itching to have. Whether you're a Cowboys fan, you're a
Speaker 1: draft fan, you're an NFL fan, doesn't matter. This is
Speaker 1: a disc and we need to have. It's a sit down.
Speaker 1: It's a heart to heart with Jeff Cavanaugh about different
Speaker 1: types of corners. And Dane said, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: different types of corners in this draft that could potentially
Speaker 1: intrigue you. I mean, we talked about elijah'm Olden out
Speaker 1: of Washington, Florida States, Asante Samuel Junior, then you've got
Speaker 1: the top guys like a Patrick Jutan and a Caitla Farley.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are all these different types of corners.
Speaker 1: But Jeff, whenever it comes to the Cowboys, why are
Speaker 1: you so skeptical on the types that they're looking at? Well? Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is my thing with how we do the
Speaker 1: draft and how we do cornerback. I feel like everybody
Speaker 1: is looking for guys that are six two and up,
Speaker 1: and I'm just kind of going backwards and asking myself
Speaker 1: and everybody else, why why are we pretending that everybody
Speaker 1: that we're going to cover in the NFL is like
Speaker 1: sixty three? When I get a bunch of dudes in
Speaker 1: the NFL, and it's like, all right, congrats, you got
Speaker 1: all your six two guys. Now, time to go win
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. Here's Tyreek Hill, all right, Well, my
Speaker 1: guys falling down every time tire Hill changes direction, and
Speaker 1: all right, here's the super Bowl. Go cover Stefan Diggs.
Speaker 1: All right, my six two guys falling down left and right.
Speaker 1: I just I wonder why are we so into the
Speaker 1: idea of the six two and the six three corner?
Speaker 1: And maybe part of it is just that I'm finding
Speaker 1: a bunch of corners in this class that I like
Speaker 1: that are under six foot and I'm tired of them
Speaker 1: being height shamed, you know, by the community. So my
Speaker 1: guys who are five ten, five eleven, just like Jayre
Speaker 1: Alexander maybe the best corner in the NFL. I don't
Speaker 1: want to just immediately throw everybody who's five foot ten
Speaker 1: into well, he's a nickel guy, because there's plenty of
Speaker 1: receivers in the NFL that are five nine to five
Speaker 1: eleven that are number ones that play outside that you're
Speaker 1: going to have to cover. So just the idea that
Speaker 1: in the draft world, I Am not going to be
Speaker 1: consistently looking for and rewarding guys for being tall, going
Speaker 1: to find the best players, and I'm gonna have guys
Speaker 1: like Asante Samuel and Elijah Molden and Robinson at UCF
Speaker 1: and Shakur Brown at Michigan State ahead of Tyson Campbell
Speaker 1: six two runs fast from Georgia because I care less
Speaker 1: about your profile. And maybe this comes back to the
Speaker 1: thing that Dane talks about where it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the player versus the traits. You can keep your traits.
Speaker 1: I want the players. So the five ten and the
Speaker 1: five eleven guys that can cover really well, that are physical,
Speaker 1: that can play a football, I'm gonna take them over
Speaker 1: six foot two and four to three all day or day.
Speaker 1: That's my corner thing. It's a question, it's a comment,
Speaker 1: it's a commentary, it's speech, and uh and I'm done. Now,
Speaker 1: have a great day. I'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1: I think you're I mean, you're right, Like that's how,
Speaker 1: that's how it should be. The number one trait when
Speaker 1: you're scouting the cornerback position should always be athleticism. To me,
Speaker 1: easy more so than size. And I would argue next
Speaker 1: is your ability to the process. You know, you're mental processing.
Speaker 1: So those are the top two traits that I know personally.
Speaker 1: I look for athleticism and then mental processing. If you
Speaker 1: have those two things, yeah, you can play for me
Speaker 1: any day. I think when we talk about length with corners,
Speaker 1: it's not too dissimilar when we talk about you know,
Speaker 1: arm arm length for offensive tackles. You know, like I think,
Speaker 1: just it helps if you're a little bit longer, if
Speaker 1: you have thirty five inch arms compared to thirty two
Speaker 1: inch arms, and as offensive tackle, those three inches can
Speaker 1: sometimes make a big difference, and so helping that kind
Speaker 1: of you know, close the gap is something that teams
Speaker 1: will look for. But if you're not if you can't
Speaker 1: move as an offensive tackle, it's not going to matter much.
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with the corners. If you're
Speaker 1: super long player, that's great, but if you're not a
Speaker 1: good athlete, it's not going to matter much. So the
Speaker 1: size is something that I think should be used to
Speaker 1: help break tie. So if you think Tyson Campbell and
Speaker 1: Elijah Molden are on the same level as a prospect,
Speaker 1: then Tyson Campbell should get a little bit of a
Speaker 1: bump because he has the size advantage. But if you
Speaker 1: think that Elijah Bowl and just a flight out better player,
Speaker 1: then I certainly understand that too. No, I think I've
Speaker 1: been guilty of this before in the past, and you
Speaker 1: always try to get better at this, right, we sometimes
Speaker 1: take measurements and information that you would typically get at
Speaker 1: pro days or a combine or whatever. We sometimes tend
Speaker 1: to take those measurements and we treat him like currency
Speaker 1: almost And it really doesn't have to be that way.
Speaker 1: You trust what your ic and things like that. But
Speaker 1: just to play Devil's advocate to what Jeff said, because
Speaker 1: I agree with most, if not everything, But Jeff said
Speaker 1: Tyree Hill in the Super Bowl, Well, what happens if
Speaker 1: our Darius Washington from TCU is your free safety and
Speaker 1: he's got to get over and get on top of
Speaker 1: Mike Evans the Super Bowl? You're gonna do? You wish it?
Speaker 1: Your guy who's gonna do it, You're gonna I want
Speaker 1: the guy who's gonna get there. If look if if
Speaker 1: your quarterback throws a perfect ball and does the math
Speaker 1: in his head for sixty yards downfield, when the free
Speaker 1: safety gets there where the corner is and leaves it
Speaker 1: outside and high on the sideline where my five eight
Speaker 1: safety can't reach it, good on you try it again.
Speaker 1: I'd much rather have a badass, instinctual athletic dude that
Speaker 1: makes plays than a guy who's taller and faster. That's all.
Speaker 1: That's all. And you didn't have to drag you didn't
Speaker 1: have to drag my safety into it. That's something that
Speaker 1: you chose to do, Katie. You chose violence on a
Speaker 1: Thursday with me. You didn't have to bring him into this.
Speaker 1: Nobody asked you to do that, or Darius Washington safety
Speaker 1: number one all five eight of him. Let's go offside
Speaker 1: rich Richie Grant safety number two. Like something else that's
Speaker 1: throwing into this carversation with corners, because that cornerback might
Speaker 1: be my favorite position to evaluate because it's so much fun.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's like you're you're breaking down a dance.
Speaker 1: You have to be so technically refined, but at the
Speaker 1: same time, you have to be a top athlete. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, first and foremost, I think you need you
Speaker 1: need space athletes, guys that can hold their own in space.
Speaker 1: And then you have to judge. You know, there's just
Speaker 1: not a good athlete and a bad athlete. There are
Speaker 1: certain levels of athlete. You know, you have to you know,
Speaker 1: there's different types of speed. There's uh, you know, transition speed,
Speaker 1: there's drive speed, there's break on the ball speed, all
Speaker 1: these different levels, so, uh, you know, the it's just
Speaker 1: a really fascinating position to evaluate. And I think the
Speaker 1: better athlete, the more you can compromise on size, because
Speaker 1: ideally you don't want a five nine corner, but if
Speaker 1: he's a top athlete, then the more you can compromise
Speaker 1: on that. It's something that is a it's really a
Speaker 1: fascinating uh because it's it is arguably the toughest position
Speaker 1: to play, just because you're left out on an island
Speaker 1: again another top athlete and you don't know what's coming
Speaker 1: and you just have to stop them from making a play,
Speaker 1: and it's tough, but you know that's it makes it,
Speaker 1: I think, a fun position to evaluate. Well. And Jeff
Speaker 1: says something very interesting in our just really quickly here Kata,
Speaker 1: but kind of tying together what all three of you
Speaker 1: guys were just talking about. But that was specifically whenever
Speaker 1: it came to the size and the athleticism of these corners.
Speaker 1: Whenever you look at the division that the Cowboys are in,
Speaker 1: who are they going up against in terms of wide
Speaker 1: receivers that are the better wide receivers. It's Terry McLaurin
Speaker 1: for Washington, It's Sterling Shepherd for New York, and I
Speaker 1: guess the Shan Jackson slash Jalen Rager for Philadelphia. I mean,
Speaker 1: those are the guys. They're slot receivers that are quick,
Speaker 1: that are not very tall, that are agile, and they're
Speaker 1: gonna come right over the middle of the field. So
Speaker 1: shouldn't these smaller corners that have that athleticism that Dane's
Speaker 1: talking about that kind of allow you to take them
Speaker 1: earlier in the draft. Be higher value to the Cowboys, Jeff,
Speaker 1: because just based off of the competition they're going for, well,
Speaker 1: I think they should be a higher value by everybody
Speaker 1: because sure, like you know, Davante Adams isn't small and
Speaker 1: Mike Evans big and Alan Robinson's not small. But I
Speaker 1: mean it's the NFL receivers look like us, it's different,
Speaker 1: not quite like us. They look like five nine, six
Speaker 1: foot six one. This guy's five eleven. Oh, here's a
Speaker 1: six three guy. This guy's six foot, he's six one
Speaker 1: oh six four over there. It's it's all over the place.
Speaker 1: So I just I don't think you need to be
Speaker 1: like building your team with the idea that you gotta
Speaker 1: have this this height in this length. Like if um,
Speaker 1: I don't mean to pick on the guy, but if
Speaker 1: camp if Tyson Campbell, the six two guy at Georgia
Speaker 1: has a better career than Sante Samuel Junior, I'll eat
Speaker 1: the microphone. Like there's just there's a different level to
Speaker 1: how well you understand the game, how quickly you're processing information. Uh,
Speaker 1: just this the spatial awareness that comes with playing corner
Speaker 1: when you're playing zone. So like sure, you in theory
Speaker 1: might even and maybe even outruns him in the forty right,
Speaker 1: and so now you're bigger, longer, faster. But if we
Speaker 1: run twenty football plays and we see who creates the
Speaker 1: smaller window for the quarterback in various situations, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a Sante Samuel Junior because he's better at it. Jeff,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in you said, I think Tyson, Campbell and
Speaker 1: Stokes were at ten and eleven ranked corners. I'm interested
Speaker 1: who are your top ten corners that you've studied so far?
Speaker 1: It is Caleb Farley one, Patrick Surtan, JC Horne Asante,
Speaker 1: Samuel Asante, Samuel Junior four, Elijah Mulden five, Melafonwu six,
Speaker 1: Robinson seven at Central Florida, Brown at did him yesterday,
Speaker 1: Brown at Michigan State eight and actually a grand Am
Speaker 1: junior at Oregon is not Senior Bow. Then Campbell and Stokes,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how I did it. I don't
Speaker 1: know I did it Senior Bowl. But I liked his
Speaker 1: I liked the tape that I've gotten too so far.
Speaker 1: On Graham, I like it. No, I mean, the only
Speaker 1: one out of that that I don't really love is Graham. Um.
Speaker 1: But the rest I mean, I yeah, I have no
Speaker 1: really big disagreements there. I guess my only disagreement would
Speaker 1: be I really like Greg Newsom from Northwestern. He would
Speaker 1: be I haven't seen him yet. It's cheating, So just
Speaker 1: call Campbell and Stokes eleven and twelve or whatever, move
Speaker 1: him down one because I'm assuming i'll like knew some
Speaker 1: vetter Edge Simpson gotcha. Yeah, No, it's and that's I mean,
Speaker 1: all those guys that you mentioned are top one hundred
Speaker 1: guys so or maybe top seventy five guys. So it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a really interesting group. Corners. Where are you on?
Speaker 1: Dry and Kendrick Dane from Clemson he didn't come out,
Speaker 1: Yeah he went back Clemson. Oh break and Connor Man Yeah, Katie,
Speaker 1: I was really I wanted him. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: come out, but he ended up going back. I agreed
Speaker 1: he might have been the best athlete in the group
Speaker 1: among all these guys, just really really raw, and so
Speaker 1: I think he made but maybe the better decision by
Speaker 1: going back. He has got a chance to be a
Speaker 1: really good corner if he figures things out, because he's
Speaker 1: a wide receiver. When he showed up, he's still he's
Speaker 1: still figuring things out. Yeah, I think another year with
Speaker 1: at college levels him. Well, I have the same almost
Speaker 1: the same order, Aaron Robinson of Central Florida. I have
Speaker 1: fourth so Farley certain Horne, Robinson, Samuel Stokes, Campbell Moulden,
Speaker 1: Melifon Wu Newsome. For me, I think that's ten I
Speaker 1: named up, and then I've kind of got on my
Speaker 1: day three radar um Tariq Castro Fields from Penn State.
Speaker 1: Although I need to check and see if he came
Speaker 1: out and he's going back. Okay, he's gone back. Kat
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. I know if I tell you
Speaker 1: that that extra year of eligibile it messed everything up.
Speaker 1: It's tough. Yeah, a lot of people are a lot
Speaker 1: of kids are taking advantage of that. So thanks for
Speaker 1: tuning into the draft show with three experts and Katie, Hey,
Speaker 1: make sure that it's on tape. Let's market that Jeff's
Speaker 1: gonna eat the microphone. Campel has a better career than Samuel.
Speaker 1: Can we just get that and keep it? Sure? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep this microphone for that purpose. This one
Speaker 1: right here, that's gonna terrible meal and the like. There
Speaker 1: are some there are a couple of corners that we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about that are you know, pretty good, you know,
Speaker 1: Pulsing Adibo. We got to figure out what to do
Speaker 1: with him out of Stanford. Um. Yeah, Robert Rochelle from
Speaker 1: Central Arkansas is a small school guy, but a really
Speaker 1: good athlete who could go comp one hundred. UM. I
Speaker 1: really like what we saw from Benjamin Saint Jus from
Speaker 1: Minnesota at the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know Keith Taylor,
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere in that mix. So it's a it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting group of corners that uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of split opinion when we
Speaker 1: talk about corners four through twelve in that range, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like that throughout the course of the
Speaker 1: draft process. Also, Brian Mills out of North Carolina Central,
Speaker 1: I believe is that what his school is? Yeah, North
Speaker 1: Carolina Central. That just tells you how much I know
Speaker 1: about that school. But yeah, I thought he looked really
Speaker 1: nice at the Senior Bowl. I thought he had a
Speaker 1: good week of practice down in Mobile. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of those corners that are gonna be kind of
Speaker 1: talked about all the way through the draft. I mean,
Speaker 1: of course, with the Cowboys needing help at corner, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if they doubled up at that position
Speaker 1: again for the second straight year. Last year it was
Speaker 1: Trayvon Daxon Reggie Robinson. One of them didn't catch the field.
Speaker 1: The other one has a ton of upside as a
Speaker 1: starter and maybe the number one corner on this ball
Speaker 1: club at the moment. But corner is definitely gonna have
Speaker 1: a microscope on it, and we'll continue to do that
Speaker 1: along the way here on the Draft Show. But that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us today, for Chris Beam and
Speaker 1: the back for Kevin kat Turner, Jeff Kavanaugh and Dame Brugler.
Speaker 1: I'm Kyle Yeoman's We should have catched this group again
Speaker 1: Thursday next week ten am Central time, and then you
Speaker 1: can also have the other group with Brian Brodess, Bucky
Speaker 1: Brooks and David Hellman at ten am Central Time on Tuesday.
Speaker 1: But until then, so long here on the Draft Show.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.