WEBVTT - How does Rick Steves Think You Should Travel? 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:02.280 I guess, well, well, what's that man go? So one 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.440 of the things I love about my parents is how 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.520 they travel like you know them and they're pretty unassuming, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.800 but they always end up in these wonderful little adventures. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.879 Like when they were young and in Paris together, they 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.760 were at dinner at some place where there was also 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.840 this big band with strings, and the band started up, 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.200 but no one was moving to the dance floor, and 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.560 the band leader was kind of just begging people to 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.079 join in. And then my dad swept up my mom 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.600 and they danced on this empty floor, and of course 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.440 people joined in. But when I got back to their table, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.960 the band leader brought them this fancy bottle of really 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.360 smooth brandy and then joined them at the table, and 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.559 they had this wonderful night together and kind of became friends. Wow, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.040 that's such a sweet story. Yeah, but they kind of 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.040 embraced people wherever they go. So they went to Cancoon 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.440 once and instead of staying at a resort, they actually 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.240 traveled down the Yucatan to see these pyramids that only 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.400 archaeologists seemed to go to. And I mean, it's because 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.400 my mom's obsessed with ancient cultures. But while they were there, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.320 they made friends with these fishermen who invited them to 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.680 dinner at their house, so of course they went, of course, 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.199 and then they met their families, and they stayed late, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.839 and and they were still sending postcards back and forth 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.319 from the US when they came back. I mean, those 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.560 are just like two of a thousand stories like that. 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.200 And as kids, we'd meet all sorts of people from 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.399 their travels. But I mean, now that I have kids, 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.520 I keep wondering, how do we make most of this 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.119 world and of our travel, like, how do we use 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.120 it to understand culture is better and broaden our perspectives 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.720 while you know, having so much fun doing it. And 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:31.720 I think we actually have the perfect person on to 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.679 give us a roadmap for that, incredible Rick Steves. So 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:58.160 let's dig in a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.720 Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.280 by my good friend man guest Ticketer and sitting behind 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.640 the soundproof glass ironing his Safari suit, that's our Palin 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.840 producer Tristan McNeil. It looks so straight like I thought 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.040 he was done with it. But it's never good enough 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.720 for Tristan. He wants to perfect Chris before he gets 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.919 out there for the lions. Now, Tristan is excited about 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.240 our guest today, and that's because our guest today has 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.239 helped so many Americans be smarter, more thoughtful travelers. He's 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.880 the host of a popular travel series on public television 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.280 and a weekly show on NPR, and he's here to 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.520 talk to us about the release of the updated edition 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.840 of his book, Travel as a Political Act. Rick Steves, 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.079 Welcome to Part Time Genius. Nice to be with you now, Rick, 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.320 I loved reading about you explaining that your most powerful 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.440 travel experience was actually your very first one. You went 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.360 to Norway with your parents. I think you're at the 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.519 age of fourteen. Can can you tell us a little 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.440 bit about that? Yeah, well, I had a lot of 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.440 beautiful experiences in that trip, and I much I think 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.440 when you're referring to his I was in the park 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.280 and also behind the palace, and remember my parents were 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.920 just trying to make me happy and lavishing me with 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.920 love and attention, and I was kind of a you know, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:08.960 as a typical fourteen year old kid being dragged on 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.760 a family vacation. And I remember looking out in that 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.240 park and it was just speckled with families, and I 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.639 saw all these parents loving their kids as much as 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.880 my parents loved me, and it occurred to me, Wow, 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.000 this world is home to billions of equally precious children 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.880 of God. And that was sort of a jolt for me. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.480 It got me out of my ego and ethnocentric kind 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.160 of trap, and it opened me up to just a 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.640 passion for better understanding our world. Later on that same trip, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.200 I was and I was on the carpet at my 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.120 Norwegian relatives living room and bergen and we were watching 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.080 uh Neil Armstrong step on the moon, you know, one 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.640 small step for men and one giant leap for man kind. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.440 But I heard that in Norwegian, and I saw the 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.600 enthusiasm of all my Norwegian relatives, like just really just 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.400 ecstatic about this, and it occurred to me it wasn't 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.480 just an American accomplishment. This was a human accomplishment, and 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.040 the whole planet was excited about this. And I thought 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.000 in the United States people were really into waving their flag, 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.840 but uh, from a planetary point of view, it was 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.600 just a huge, great thing for for all of us. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.480 And these were little moments that I had in in 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.640 my childhood. That contributed to my outlook. And I've spent 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.520 my career encouraging Americans to basically go beyond Orlando, to 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.920 to get out of their comfort zone and and broaden 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.280 their perspectives through travel. And I'm very excited about that 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.520 whole value of travel. Yeah, it's funny my mom talks 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.279 about that same experience watching the moon landing in India, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.000 and it is it was such a global phenomena. Since 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.640 nine eleven, you've been traveling and giving this talk travel 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.000 as a political act. Ken, tell us what it means 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.720 to travel as a political act. Yeah, I've been teaching 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.440 like mad ever since I was a kid, my love 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.240 of travel, and I had didn't have any grand plan, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.400 but I've been at this for decades now, and if 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.000 I look back, it does have kind of a natural 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.919 progression or evolution. Back in the eighties, it was for 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.400 me all about budget travel, cheap tricks. I wrote a 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.000 book called Europe through the back Door, and I was 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.400 teaching people, you know, how to catch the train and 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.159 pack light and get a hotel and a nice meal, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.720 and that's all important stuff and that's the foundation. And 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.640 I see that as kind of the the lowest rung 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.479 of what you could think of as Maslow's hierarchy of 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.960 travel needs if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.039 And then in the nineties, I figured, well, we've cut 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:31.560 the train and we're not a pack light and stay 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.520 safe and healthy. Now let's teach about enjoying the history 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.159 and the art. For travelers, history and they are the culture. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.279 That's really why we travel. And I wrote a book 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.560 called Europe one oh one, and my my passion was 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.039 for teaching people to appreciate the culture. And then after 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.680 nine eleven, I realized, you know, the pinnacle of this 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.680 Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs is inspiring and encouraging and 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:54.920 e clipping Americans to get out of their comfort zone 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.440 to gain an empathy for the other nineties six percent 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.200 of humanity. And that's what I've been teaching a lot 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.160 since then. In fact, I'm going on a on a 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:04.800 road trip here in the next month while I'll be 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.760 in cities, given this talk about how we can travel 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.239 as a political act, and that really means again getting 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.440 out of her comfort zone, going south of the border, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.400 gaining an empathy for the other of humanity, and coming 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.440 home with what I think is the most beautiful souvenir. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.239 That's a broader perspective. And uh, you know, a mindset 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.599 where you're more inclined to build bridges and less inclined 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.480 to build walls. Are We have so many more questions 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.080 for you, Rick, but before we get to those, let's 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:47.800 take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius, 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.239 and we're talking to Rick Steves about the latest edition 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.760 of his book, Travel as a Political Act. I like 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.480 that you had been in the book to having had 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.000 tickets to India three years in a row, but pushing 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.320 off the trip for your worry about going to Egypt. 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.240 And I also love that line you use that the 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.359 people who would benefit the most from travel off and 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.600 stay home. But I'm curious, like, how do we push 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.280 ourselves to embrace them comfortable and sort of make the 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.920 trips to places we might not be as home with. Yeah, 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.040 you know, I'm not at all advocating going to dangerous places. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:21.960 There have been writers that have had that as their 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.600 publicity stunt, and they go to war torn areas. I 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.760 don't go to war torn areas. I've never traveled anywhere 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.160 where I think it's dangerous. In fact, just this week, 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.760 I can't filed out of a plan to go to Egypt. 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.000 I just don't think it's quite right for me to 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.840 go to Egypt and encourage Americans to go there, because 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.440 it's still struggling with a lot of issues that are important, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.320 and I think Americans might be uncomfortable there. But I've 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.040 traveled a lot lately in countries like Iran and Cuba 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.320 and Palestine and Russia and Denmark and the Netherlands and 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.160 Portugal and Rocco, and I just love, um, you know, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.400 having experiences and taking notes and learning from my mistakes 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.680 and and helping other Americans go what I consider beyond 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.720 our land. Don't to mention that earlier, And it really 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.960 is kind of my mission is to get Americans out 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.440 of their comfort zone and to realize the world is 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.440 not a pyramid with us on top and everybody else 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.800 trying to figure it out. There's smart people doing things 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.760 different than us. This is not America bashing. This is 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.240 just acknowledging that there's not the work ethic. You know, 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.480 I was raised thinking we have the work ethic. It's 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.920 a work ethic. My Norwegian relatives have a different work ethic. 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.720 They don't have the work ethic and my Spanish, my 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.680 Spanish Mints have a Spanish work ethic. It's not as 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.480 hard as ours, but it doesn't make it a better 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.800 or worse thing. They choose to work less and have 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.640 more time with their families. That is a work ethic. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.920 And we have a work ethic. And when we travel 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.840 with a with a curiosity, in an open mind, we 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.720 challenge these norms that we think are given and they're 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.240 they're really not, and that lets us make smarter decisions 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.079 on how we want to run our lives and how 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.280 we want to weave the fabric of our communities. Well, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.000 I I do love how how human this book is, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.920 and that's one of the reasons I like it so much, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.920 is you know, you're not sort of just talking to 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.079 people and ask them to embrace everything you're saying. You're 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.440 saying like your opinions will differ from mine because we 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.080 draw from different experiences. And I really love the perspective 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.520 you've you've filled this book with. But I did want 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.800 to ask you about this story of being in Turkey 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.640 and observing a whirling dervish or Susie. You know, I 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.360 thought the way you described it was so beautiful and 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.280 and I'd love to hear a little bit about that 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.000 and and what it means to sort of have your 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.120 I think you call it cultural furniture rearranged. Yeah, oh, well, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.079 as a tour guide, you can imagine. First of all, 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.160 you mentioned how I'm trying to be respectful of people 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.840 in different life stories and different viewpoints. And I've learned 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.520 that just because as a tour guide, you've got the 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.760 bully pulp, but you're holding the mic and people are 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.200 trapped on that bus, and it's really important if you 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:48.400 if you want to have a challenging, stimulating, transformational experience, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.880 that you don't abuse the bully pulp it. So you know, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.040 we all have to respect that nobody's got a luck 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:54.600 on the truth here, and we're in this together, and 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.120 we just have a chance to travel around and learn 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.960 from fascinating and sometimes scary sort of circumstances. Scary not 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.120 meaning dangerous, but just scary because kind of freaky. When 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.040 I'm in Turkey, I love to meet a dervish and 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.080 introduce that dervish to my tour groups. And I account 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.040 in the book. I think it's even the leadoff story 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.720 and travel as a political act. How as a tour guide. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.000 I found this dervish and I said, Hi, I'm an 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.560 American tour guide. I've got twenty American at the hotel, 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.720 and and we'd love to see you whirl. You know, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.880 he's whirling dervishes. He said, I'm not a photo of 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.000 I'm a I'm a monk and I'm praying. But if 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.360 you want to watch me pray, I would welcome you 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.120 to watch me, but I need I need to be 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.320 able to explain to you what I'm doing. So I said, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.960 perfect where and when he said, on my rooftop at sundown. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.160 So we gathered my group and we went up to 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.720 his rooftop and he walked. He came out dressed up 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.200 in his dervish outfit, you know, and he welcome to us, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.840 and he said, I'm a I'm a dervish. That's what 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.600 you Americans would probably call him a monk. And I 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.680 follow My prophet is Nevlana. I think the Christian equivalent 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.720 would be St. Francis the Profit of Love. Everybody can 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.520 get their brains around his teachings and so on. And 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.600 he said, five times a day, I spin myself into 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.560 a meditative trance. And he showed us how he places 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.440 one foot in the middle and that symbolizes his home 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.320 and his family, and then the other foot goes around 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.920 and around on the outside, celebrating the diversity in God's 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.240 great creation. And he spins with that motion, and one 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.360 hand goes up to accept the love of his creator, 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.120 and the other hand goes down like the spout on 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.280 a tea kettle, to shower God's love on his beautiful creation. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.920 And the dervish spins himself into a meditative trance and 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.160 loses himself and that beautiful idea that he can be 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.040 a conduit of God's love, and standing there as a 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.360 tour guide, the travel teacher with twenty Americans who have 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.000 no idea what the dervish was except this comic cruise 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.880 ship entertainment, you know, and watching him lose himself in 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.800 that beautiful idea and his head tilted over and his 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.040 robe billowed out. And then for me to hand over 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.120 to the left and see the faces of my tourists, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.320 just wonder struck, and to know that they were being 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.640 changed right, and they were going to go home with 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.319 that beautiful souvenir. And that's an empathy for other people, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.000 a broader perspective. And then when they implement that broader 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.840 perspective back here in this beautiful country of ours, they're 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.200 making travel a political act. And uh, that's kind of 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.320 what I think is the greatest accomplishment for a tour 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.439 guide and a travel writer like me is to help 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.880 American travelers learn about the beauty and the diversity on 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.920 this planet and go home and not be afraid of it, 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.600 but to celebrate it. It's hard to imagine a more 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.960 powerful experience than to have set there and have you know, 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.240 a dervish explain what this was all about. That that's 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.800 that's such a wonderful story. Great, Rick, I was hoping 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.559 you could tell us a little about your experience of 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.000 being a Lutheran and Namibia, you know, like that the 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.200 priorities there can be different, and reading the Bible through 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.240 different eyes there can Can you talk a little bit 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:53.240 about that. Yeah, I'm a Lutheran and I think it's 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.440 fun to think that there's more Lutherans in the maybe 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.120 than they're in the United States. And I've been on 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.680 trips with the Lutheran Church help film mission workings on 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.320 in Papa New Guinea and this and that, and uh, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.760 I think The important thing for ethno center Christians to 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.160 understand is there's you know, there's different ways that cultures 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.520 embrace different faiths. And uh, in my travels, I've I've 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.560 really enjoyed trying to be open minded about that and 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.080 and learning from other people. And uh, it's just Lutherans 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.280 have this funny notion that Lutherans are all Germans or 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.079 Scandinavian and it's another example of the centristy. And we 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.560 don't all have jello and green hymnals and this sort 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.040 of thing, and casse roles as the garrison keeler jokes 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.840 would be uh, and uh that always is a powerful opportunity. 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:44.400 And in our travels we can, uh, we can all 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.800 you know, endeavor to better understand God without being judgmental 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.079 of each each other. I'll never forget as a Christian 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.160 tour guide with a group in Turkey dancing in the 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.079 living room of a mayor of a little village that 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.840 had never met an American tour group before. And and 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.760 I was the big shot because as I was the 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.360 tour guy, and he was the big jump because he 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.160 was the mayor. So he came over to me and 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.720 we're all snapping our fingers and shaking our shoulders and dancing, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.200 and he took me over to the most sacred place 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.960 in his house. It was the his Koran bag, where 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.920 he hangs his Koran on the wall. And he said, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.680 in my karan bag, I keep a copy of the Bible, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.720 the Torah and the Koran, because I believe as Christians, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.320 Jews and Muslims are all children of the same God, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.000 people of the book. And I just thought, Wow, I 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.080 wish more Americans could could meet this Muslim and to 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.400 realize that there's just so much there's so much joy 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.400 and the challenges for us to understand each other and 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.000 respect each other and know how we can live together, 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.720 you know, as neighbors. And Son's almost tried. That's sort 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.640 of the fundamental thing about travel. We humanize this planet 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.720 and we come home not fearful, but we come home 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.640 celebrating the diversity and the joy and the love that 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.120 just abounds on this planet. And that's one thing I 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.320 come home with from wherever I travel, is that just 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.000 the love of a father or a mother for their child. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:11.320 It's perfectly the same here or Guatemala or Sri Lanka 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.840 or Papua New Guinea or Norway or Morocco. I think 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.160 it's really interesting in your guides to places like Amsterdam, 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.560 you know, you choose to include, you know, sections on 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.200 prostitution and marijuana, both of which are legal there. And 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.400 I think it's very interesting philosophy that you have around this. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.520 Can you talk about that philosophy on uncovering topics like these. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.960 I don't think everybody needs to be into the same things, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.080 but when you travel you can expose two issues. Whether 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.120 it's the importance of water in a thirsty community it 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.600 doesn't where women have to abandon their kids and walk 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.479 for water every day. Whether it's the importance of separation 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.880 of mosque and state like we have separation of church 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.240 and state. Or whether it's the importance in the case 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.320 of the Netherlands compared to the United States, of not 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:00.560 legislating morality. Legislating morality. Uh, that's a very importan issue, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.560 and that's uh. You know, we might learn about that 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.200 in school, but to actually go to a place like 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.520 the Netherlands and and talk with people who say, you know, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.880 a society has to make a choice tolerate alternative lifestyles 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.200 or build more prisons and New Americans lock up ten 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.160 times as many people per capita as we do here 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.680 in the Netherlands. Either you are an inherently more criminal people. 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.880 Are there something screwed about your loss? Now, you can't 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.800 dismiss that we lock up ten times as many people 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.440 here in the United States as they do in Europe 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.360 and most of Europe. And uh uh, and it is 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.440 because we're really quick to legislate morality and and we 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.520 incarceerate people to solve our problems. Where is in Europe 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.280 they would rather have a system of pragmatic harm reduction 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.120 when it comes to prostitution. Nobody's going to say prostitution 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.080 is a good thing, But I think that you can 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.240 look at this challenge in a pragmatic harm reduction kind 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.640 of way and realize that it's going to happen one 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.480 way or another. And uh, why don't we legalize it 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.640 and regulate it and let prostitutes have their union and 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.200 required that they get a medical checkup before they get 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.240 their license and they're not passing diseases, and organize it 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.080 in a way so when they have a dangerous plant 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.800 and they push their emergency button, they're not rescued by 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.560 a pimp, but they're rescued by the local policeman. It 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.000 doesn't work out quite that nice, but that's the that's 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.200 the ideal, and that's what they're striving for. In the Netherlands. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.200 It's quite impressive. The same thing with the drug problems 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.760 in the United States. Have got this opioid crisis, well, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.000 they've had that crisis in Europe before. In fact, the 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.360 two countries that have the most progressive laws about their 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.399 drugs hard and soft are the Netherlands and Portugal. And 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.919 both of those countries were responding a decade or two 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.680 ago to an opioid crisis and they decided to take 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.600 the marijuana out of the equation and gain credibility for 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.320 their law enforcement and and UH. In those countries, the 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.080 word for addicted is enslaved. They don't see these people 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.000 as criminals that need handcuffs and lawyers and cops. They 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.320 are sick people that are enslaved to hard drug addiction. 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.960 They need compassion and counseling and nurses and UH. In 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.679 those countries, they don't have the overdose depths that we have, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.639 they don't have the incarceration rates that we have, and 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.159 they don't consume more drugs than we do. They just 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.760 deal with it in a smart, pragmatic and compassionate way. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.920 So these are examples of ways that we can learn 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.760 from our travels and make our country a better place. Yeah, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.760 it's interesting to observe those differences. Now, one area where 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.240 we might all have certain things in common that I 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.680 thought was very interesting is you know you mentioned being 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.080 impressed by the level of pride and perhaps even surprised 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.320 at times that the national pride from place to place. Well, 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.040 these are the fun things that I've been able to 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.760 put into travel as a political act. And and when 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.840 my publisher was telling me we needed to reprint the 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.280 second edition, I said, hold off, because there's been so 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.360 many changes. I want to rework it for the new 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.119 third edition. And as far as pride goes, we're dealing 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.880 with this whole America first thing, and tribalism and nativism 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.120 and Erexit and and air togon, and there's all these 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.679 changes in these turmoil and the political landscape, both in 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.640 Europe and in the United States, and we can learn 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.240 from that. I mean, we're looking at failed countries in 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.160 the Mediterranean basin that when they fall apart, you've got 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.679 millions of refugees heading for Europe. We'll think of the 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.560 failed nations. You've got Libya, you've got Syria, you've got Iraq. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.320 Those political borders were drawn by European colonial interests a 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.960 century ago, and now we have an idea that, oh, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.280 they've got to be democratic. So we threw out their 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.480 strong arm leaders, their Saddam Hussein's and their Kadafis and 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.520 their sods and thoughts, and what you get is a 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.760 country that falls apart. It's a fake country. It can't 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.600 be held together in a democratic way. We created the 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.440 fake countries, and then a century later we said you 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.040 got to have democratic rulers. And the consequences they fall apart, 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.119 and then they all these desperate people knock on the 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.080 door of Europe. Uh. This is the consequences of europe 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:55.000 and American colonial interests not sensitive to local ethnic realities. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.119 There is this pride in these countries, but it is 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.800 ethnic pride, and the Pean Union has has really respected 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.879 ethnic pride. As a matter of fact, the European Union 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.400 does not fund political units that were created after wars 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.760 when line lines were drawn, like today's Austria. The European 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.159 Union funds ethnic realities. I've got a friend who is 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.359