1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: I guess, well, well, what's that man go? So one 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: of the things I love about my parents is how 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: they travel like you know them and they're pretty unassuming, 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: but they always end up in these wonderful little adventures. 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Like when they were young and in Paris together, they 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: were at dinner at some place where there was also 7 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: this big band with strings, and the band started up, 8 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: but no one was moving to the dance floor, and 9 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: the band leader was kind of just begging people to 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: join in. And then my dad swept up my mom 11 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: and they danced on this empty floor, and of course 12 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: people joined in. But when I got back to their table, 13 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: the band leader brought them this fancy bottle of really 14 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: smooth brandy and then joined them at the table, and 15 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: they had this wonderful night together and kind of became friends. Wow, 16 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: that's such a sweet story. Yeah, but they kind of 17 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: embraced people wherever they go. So they went to Cancoon 18 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: once and instead of staying at a resort, they actually 19 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: traveled down the Yucatan to see these pyramids that only 20 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: archaeologists seemed to go to. And I mean, it's because 21 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: my mom's obsessed with ancient cultures. But while they were there, 22 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: they made friends with these fishermen who invited them to 23 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: dinner at their house, so of course they went, of course, 24 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,199 Speaker 1: and then they met their families, and they stayed late, 25 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: and and they were still sending postcards back and forth 26 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: from the US when they came back. I mean, those 27 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: are just like two of a thousand stories like that. 28 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: And as kids, we'd meet all sorts of people from 29 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: their travels. But I mean, now that I have kids, 30 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: I keep wondering, how do we make most of this 31 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: world and of our travel, like, how do we use 32 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: it to understand culture is better and broaden our perspectives 33 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: while you know, having so much fun doing it. And 34 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: I think we actually have the perfect person on to 35 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: give us a roadmap for that, incredible Rick Steves. So 36 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: let's dig in a their podcast. Listeners, Welcome to Part 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined 38 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: by my good friend man guest Ticketer and sitting behind 39 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: the soundproof glass ironing his Safari suit, that's our Palin 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: producer Tristan McNeil. It looks so straight like I thought 41 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: he was done with it. But it's never good enough 42 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: for Tristan. He wants to perfect Chris before he gets 43 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: out there for the lions. Now, Tristan is excited about 44 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: our guest today, and that's because our guest today has 45 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: helped so many Americans be smarter, more thoughtful travelers. He's 46 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: the host of a popular travel series on public television 47 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: and a weekly show on NPR, and he's here to 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: talk to us about the release of the updated edition 49 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: of his book, Travel as a Political Act. Rick Steves, 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius. Nice to be with you now, Rick, 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: I loved reading about you explaining that your most powerful 52 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: travel experience was actually your very first one. You went 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: to Norway with your parents. I think you're at the 54 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. Can can you tell us a little 55 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: bit about that? Yeah, well, I had a lot of 56 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: beautiful experiences in that trip, and I much I think 57 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: when you're referring to his I was in the park 58 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and also behind the palace, and remember my parents were 59 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: just trying to make me happy and lavishing me with 60 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: love and attention, and I was kind of a you know, 61 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: as a typical fourteen year old kid being dragged on 62 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: a family vacation. And I remember looking out in that 63 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: park and it was just speckled with families, and I 64 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: saw all these parents loving their kids as much as 65 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: my parents loved me, and it occurred to me, Wow, 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: this world is home to billions of equally precious children 67 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: of God. And that was sort of a jolt for me. 68 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: It got me out of my ego and ethnocentric kind 69 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: of trap, and it opened me up to just a 70 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: passion for better understanding our world. Later on that same trip, 71 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: I was and I was on the carpet at my 72 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: Norwegian relatives living room and bergen and we were watching 73 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: uh Neil Armstrong step on the moon, you know, one 74 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: small step for men and one giant leap for man kind. 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: But I heard that in Norwegian, and I saw the 76 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: enthusiasm of all my Norwegian relatives, like just really just 77 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: ecstatic about this, and it occurred to me it wasn't 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: just an American accomplishment. This was a human accomplishment, and 79 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: the whole planet was excited about this. And I thought 80 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: in the United States people were really into waving their flag, 81 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: but uh, from a planetary point of view, it was 82 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: just a huge, great thing for for all of us. 83 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: And these were little moments that I had in in 84 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: my childhood. That contributed to my outlook. And I've spent 85 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: my career encouraging Americans to basically go beyond Orlando, to 86 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: to get out of their comfort zone and and broaden 87 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: their perspectives through travel. And I'm very excited about that 88 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: whole value of travel. Yeah, it's funny my mom talks 89 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: about that same experience watching the moon landing in India, 90 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: and it is it was such a global phenomena. Since 91 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: nine eleven, you've been traveling and giving this talk travel 92 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: as a political act. Ken, tell us what it means 93 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: to travel as a political act. Yeah, I've been teaching 94 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: like mad ever since I was a kid, my love 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: of travel, and I had didn't have any grand plan, 96 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: but I've been at this for decades now, and if 97 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: I look back, it does have kind of a natural 98 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: progression or evolution. Back in the eighties, it was for 99 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: me all about budget travel, cheap tricks. I wrote a 100 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: book called Europe through the back Door, and I was 101 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: teaching people, you know, how to catch the train and 102 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: pack light and get a hotel and a nice meal, 103 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: and that's all important stuff and that's the foundation. And 104 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: I see that as kind of the the lowest rung 105 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: of what you could think of as Maslow's hierarchy of 106 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: travel needs if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. 107 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: And then in the nineties, I figured, well, we've cut 108 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: the train and we're not a pack light and stay 109 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: safe and healthy. Now let's teach about enjoying the history 110 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: and the art. For travelers, history and they are the culture. 111 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: That's really why we travel. And I wrote a book 112 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: called Europe one oh one, and my my passion was 113 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: for teaching people to appreciate the culture. And then after 114 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: nine eleven, I realized, you know, the pinnacle of this 115 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: Maslow's hierarchy of travel needs is inspiring and encouraging and 116 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: e clipping Americans to get out of their comfort zone 117 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: to gain an empathy for the other nineties six percent 118 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: of humanity. And that's what I've been teaching a lot 119 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: since then. In fact, I'm going on a on a 120 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: road trip here in the next month while I'll be 121 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: in cities, given this talk about how we can travel 122 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 1: as a political act, and that really means again getting 123 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: out of her comfort zone, going south of the border, 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: gaining an empathy for the other of humanity, and coming 125 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: home with what I think is the most beautiful souvenir. 126 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,239 Speaker 1: That's a broader perspective. And uh, you know, a mindset 127 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: where you're more inclined to build bridges and less inclined 128 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: to build walls. Are We have so many more questions 129 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: for you, Rick, but before we get to those, let's 130 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius, 131 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 1: and we're talking to Rick Steves about the latest edition 132 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: of his book, Travel as a Political Act. I like 133 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: that you had been in the book to having had 134 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: tickets to India three years in a row, but pushing 135 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: off the trip for your worry about going to Egypt. 136 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: And I also love that line you use that the 137 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: people who would benefit the most from travel off and 138 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: stay home. But I'm curious, like, how do we push 139 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: ourselves to embrace them comfortable and sort of make the 140 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: trips to places we might not be as home with. Yeah, 141 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not at all advocating going to dangerous places. 142 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: There have been writers that have had that as their 143 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: publicity stunt, and they go to war torn areas. I 144 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: don't go to war torn areas. I've never traveled anywhere 145 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: where I think it's dangerous. In fact, just this week, 146 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: I can't filed out of a plan to go to Egypt. 147 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: I just don't think it's quite right for me to 148 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: go to Egypt and encourage Americans to go there, because 149 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: it's still struggling with a lot of issues that are important, 150 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: and I think Americans might be uncomfortable there. But I've 151 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: traveled a lot lately in countries like Iran and Cuba 152 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: and Palestine and Russia and Denmark and the Netherlands and 153 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: Portugal and Rocco, and I just love, um, you know, 154 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: having experiences and taking notes and learning from my mistakes 155 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: and and helping other Americans go what I consider beyond 156 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: our land. Don't to mention that earlier, And it really 157 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: is kind of my mission is to get Americans out 158 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: of their comfort zone and to realize the world is 159 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: not a pyramid with us on top and everybody else 160 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. There's smart people doing things 161 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: different than us. This is not America bashing. This is 162 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: just acknowledging that there's not the work ethic. You know, 163 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: I was raised thinking we have the work ethic. It's 164 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: a work ethic. My Norwegian relatives have a different work ethic. 165 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: They don't have the work ethic and my Spanish, my 166 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: Spanish Mints have a Spanish work ethic. It's not as 167 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: hard as ours, but it doesn't make it a better 168 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: or worse thing. They choose to work less and have 169 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: more time with their families. That is a work ethic. 170 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: And we have a work ethic. And when we travel 171 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: with a with a curiosity, in an open mind, we 172 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: challenge these norms that we think are given and they're 173 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: they're really not, and that lets us make smarter decisions 174 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: on how we want to run our lives and how 175 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: we want to weave the fabric of our communities. Well, 176 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: I I do love how how human this book is, 177 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons I like it so much, 178 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: is you know, you're not sort of just talking to 179 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: people and ask them to embrace everything you're saying. You're 180 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: saying like your opinions will differ from mine because we 181 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: draw from different experiences. And I really love the perspective 182 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: you've you've filled this book with. But I did want 183 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: to ask you about this story of being in Turkey 184 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: and observing a whirling dervish or Susie. You know, I 185 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: thought the way you described it was so beautiful and 186 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear a little bit about that 187 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: and and what it means to sort of have your 188 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: I think you call it cultural furniture rearranged. Yeah, oh, well, 189 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: as a tour guide, you can imagine. First of all, 190 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned how I'm trying to be respectful of people 191 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: in different life stories and different viewpoints. And I've learned 192 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: that just because as a tour guide, you've got the 193 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: bully pulp, but you're holding the mic and people are 194 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: trapped on that bus, and it's really important if you 195 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: if you want to have a challenging, stimulating, transformational experience, 196 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: that you don't abuse the bully pulp it. So you know, 197 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: we all have to respect that nobody's got a luck 198 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: on the truth here, and we're in this together, and 199 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: we just have a chance to travel around and learn 200 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: from fascinating and sometimes scary sort of circumstances. Scary not 201 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: meaning dangerous, but just scary because kind of freaky. When 202 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm in Turkey, I love to meet a dervish and 203 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: introduce that dervish to my tour groups. And I account 204 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: in the book. I think it's even the leadoff story 205 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: and travel as a political act. How as a tour guide. 206 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I found this dervish and I said, Hi, I'm an 207 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: American tour guide. I've got twenty American at the hotel, 208 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: and and we'd love to see you whirl. You know, 209 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: he's whirling dervishes. He said, I'm not a photo of 210 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a monk and I'm praying. But if 211 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: you want to watch me pray, I would welcome you 212 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: to watch me, but I need I need to be 213 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: able to explain to you what I'm doing. So I said, 214 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: perfect where and when he said, on my rooftop at sundown. 215 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: So we gathered my group and we went up to 216 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: his rooftop and he walked. He came out dressed up 217 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: in his dervish outfit, you know, and he welcome to us, 218 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: and he said, I'm a I'm a dervish. That's what 219 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: you Americans would probably call him a monk. And I 220 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: follow My prophet is Nevlana. I think the Christian equivalent 221 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: would be St. Francis the Profit of Love. Everybody can 222 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: get their brains around his teachings and so on. And 223 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: he said, five times a day, I spin myself into 224 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: a meditative trance. And he showed us how he places 225 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: one foot in the middle and that symbolizes his home 226 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: and his family, and then the other foot goes around 227 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: and around on the outside, celebrating the diversity in God's 228 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: great creation. And he spins with that motion, and one 229 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: hand goes up to accept the love of his creator, 230 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: and the other hand goes down like the spout on 231 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: a tea kettle, to shower God's love on his beautiful creation. 232 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: And the dervish spins himself into a meditative trance and 233 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: loses himself and that beautiful idea that he can be 234 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: a conduit of God's love, and standing there as a 235 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: tour guide, the travel teacher with twenty Americans who have 236 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: no idea what the dervish was except this comic cruise 237 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: ship entertainment, you know, and watching him lose himself in 238 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: that beautiful idea and his head tilted over and his 239 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: robe billowed out. And then for me to hand over 240 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: to the left and see the faces of my tourists, 241 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: just wonder struck, and to know that they were being 242 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: changed right, and they were going to go home with 243 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: that beautiful souvenir. And that's an empathy for other people, 244 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: a broader perspective. And then when they implement that broader 245 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: perspective back here in this beautiful country of ours, they're 246 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: making travel a political act. And uh, that's kind of 247 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: what I think is the greatest accomplishment for a tour 248 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: guide and a travel writer like me is to help 249 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: American travelers learn about the beauty and the diversity on 250 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: this planet and go home and not be afraid of it, 251 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: but to celebrate it. It's hard to imagine a more 252 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: powerful experience than to have set there and have you know, 253 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: a dervish explain what this was all about. That that's 254 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: that's such a wonderful story. Great, Rick, I was hoping 255 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: you could tell us a little about your experience of 256 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: being a Lutheran and Namibia, you know, like that the 257 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: priorities there can be different, and reading the Bible through 258 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: different eyes there can Can you talk a little bit 259 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I'm a Lutheran and I think it's 260 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: fun to think that there's more Lutherans in the maybe 261 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: than they're in the United States. And I've been on 262 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: trips with the Lutheran Church help film mission workings on 263 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: in Papa New Guinea and this and that, and uh, 264 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: I think The important thing for ethno center Christians to 265 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: understand is there's you know, there's different ways that cultures 266 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: embrace different faiths. And uh, in my travels, I've I've 267 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: really enjoyed trying to be open minded about that and 268 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: and learning from other people. And uh, it's just Lutherans 269 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: have this funny notion that Lutherans are all Germans or 270 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: Scandinavian and it's another example of the centristy. And we 271 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: don't all have jello and green hymnals and this sort 272 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: of thing, and casse roles as the garrison keeler jokes 273 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: would be uh, and uh that always is a powerful opportunity. 274 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: And in our travels we can, uh, we can all 275 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, endeavor to better understand God without being judgmental 276 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: of each each other. I'll never forget as a Christian 277 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: tour guide with a group in Turkey dancing in the 278 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: living room of a mayor of a little village that 279 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: had never met an American tour group before. And and 280 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: I was the big shot because as I was the 281 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: tour guy, and he was the big jump because he 282 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: was the mayor. So he came over to me and 283 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: we're all snapping our fingers and shaking our shoulders and dancing, 284 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: and he took me over to the most sacred place 285 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: in his house. It was the his Koran bag, where 286 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: he hangs his Koran on the wall. And he said, 287 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: in my karan bag, I keep a copy of the Bible, 288 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: the Torah and the Koran, because I believe as Christians, 289 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: Jews and Muslims are all children of the same God, 290 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: people of the book. And I just thought, Wow, I 291 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: wish more Americans could could meet this Muslim and to 292 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: realize that there's just so much there's so much joy 293 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: and the challenges for us to understand each other and 294 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: respect each other and know how we can live together, 295 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, as neighbors. And Son's almost tried. That's sort 296 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: of the fundamental thing about travel. We humanize this planet 297 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: and we come home not fearful, but we come home 298 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: celebrating the diversity and the joy and the love that 299 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: just abounds on this planet. And that's one thing I 300 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: come home with from wherever I travel, is that just 301 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: the love of a father or a mother for their child. 302 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: It's perfectly the same here or Guatemala or Sri Lanka 303 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: or Papua New Guinea or Norway or Morocco. I think 304 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: it's really interesting in your guides to places like Amsterdam, 305 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, you choose to include, you know, sections on 306 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: prostitution and marijuana, both of which are legal there. And 307 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting philosophy that you have around this. 308 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: Can you talk about that philosophy on uncovering topics like these. 309 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: I don't think everybody needs to be into the same things, 310 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: but when you travel you can expose two issues. Whether 311 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: it's the importance of water in a thirsty community it 312 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: doesn't where women have to abandon their kids and walk 313 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,479 Speaker 1: for water every day. Whether it's the importance of separation 314 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: of mosque and state like we have separation of church 315 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: and state. Or whether it's the importance in the case 316 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: of the Netherlands compared to the United States, of not 317 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: legislating morality. Legislating morality. Uh, that's a very importan issue, 318 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: and that's uh. You know, we might learn about that 319 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: in school, but to actually go to a place like 320 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: the Netherlands and and talk with people who say, you know, 321 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: a society has to make a choice tolerate alternative lifestyles 322 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: or build more prisons and New Americans lock up ten 323 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: times as many people per capita as we do here 324 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: in the Netherlands. Either you are an inherently more criminal people. 325 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: Are there something screwed about your loss? Now, you can't 326 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: dismiss that we lock up ten times as many people 327 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: here in the United States as they do in Europe 328 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: and most of Europe. And uh uh, and it is 329 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: because we're really quick to legislate morality and and we 330 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: incarceerate people to solve our problems. Where is in Europe 331 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: they would rather have a system of pragmatic harm reduction 332 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to prostitution. Nobody's going to say prostitution 333 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: is a good thing, But I think that you can 334 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: look at this challenge in a pragmatic harm reduction kind 335 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: of way and realize that it's going to happen one 336 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: way or another. And uh, why don't we legalize it 337 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: and regulate it and let prostitutes have their union and 338 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: required that they get a medical checkup before they get 339 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: their license and they're not passing diseases, and organize it 340 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: in a way so when they have a dangerous plant 341 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: and they push their emergency button, they're not rescued by 342 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: a pimp, but they're rescued by the local policeman. It 343 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: doesn't work out quite that nice, but that's the that's 344 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: the ideal, and that's what they're striving for. In the Netherlands. 345 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: It's quite impressive. The same thing with the drug problems 346 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: in the United States. Have got this opioid crisis, well, 347 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: they've had that crisis in Europe before. In fact, the 348 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: two countries that have the most progressive laws about their 349 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: drugs hard and soft are the Netherlands and Portugal. And 350 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: both of those countries were responding a decade or two 351 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: ago to an opioid crisis and they decided to take 352 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: the marijuana out of the equation and gain credibility for 353 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: their law enforcement and and UH. In those countries, the 354 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: word for addicted is enslaved. They don't see these people 355 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: as criminals that need handcuffs and lawyers and cops. They 356 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: are sick people that are enslaved to hard drug addiction. 357 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: They need compassion and counseling and nurses and UH. In 358 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: those countries, they don't have the overdose depths that we have, 359 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: they don't have the incarceration rates that we have, and 360 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: they don't consume more drugs than we do. They just 361 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: deal with it in a smart, pragmatic and compassionate way. 362 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: So these are examples of ways that we can learn 363 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: from our travels and make our country a better place. Yeah, 364 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting to observe those differences. Now, one area where 365 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: we might all have certain things in common that I 366 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: thought was very interesting is you know you mentioned being 367 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: impressed by the level of pride and perhaps even surprised 368 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: at times that the national pride from place to place. Well, 369 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: these are the fun things that I've been able to 370 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: put into travel as a political act. And and when 371 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: my publisher was telling me we needed to reprint the 372 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: second edition, I said, hold off, because there's been so 373 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: many changes. I want to rework it for the new 374 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: third edition. And as far as pride goes, we're dealing 375 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: with this whole America first thing, and tribalism and nativism 376 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: and Erexit and and air togon, and there's all these 377 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: changes in these turmoil and the political landscape, both in 378 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: Europe and in the United States, and we can learn 379 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: from that. I mean, we're looking at failed countries in 380 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean basin that when they fall apart, you've got 381 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: millions of refugees heading for Europe. We'll think of the 382 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: failed nations. You've got Libya, you've got Syria, you've got Iraq. 383 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: Those political borders were drawn by European colonial interests a 384 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: century ago, and now we have an idea that, oh, 385 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: they've got to be democratic. So we threw out their 386 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: strong arm leaders, their Saddam Hussein's and their Kadafis and 387 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: their sods and thoughts, and what you get is a 388 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: country that falls apart. It's a fake country. It can't 389 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: be held together in a democratic way. We created the 390 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: fake countries, and then a century later we said you 391 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: got to have democratic rulers. And the consequences they fall apart, 392 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: and then they all these desperate people knock on the 393 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: door of Europe. Uh. This is the consequences of europe 394 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: and American colonial interests not sensitive to local ethnic realities. 395 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: There is this pride in these countries, but it is 396 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: ethnic pride, and the Pean Union has has really respected 397 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: ethnic pride. As a matter of fact, the European Union 398 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: does not fund political units that were created after wars 399 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: when line lines were drawn, like today's Austria. The European 400 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: Union funds ethnic realities. I've got a friend who is 401 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: an archaeologist who renovates castles in the Tyrol, and if 402 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: he wants money, he doesn't go to Vienna. You'll go 403 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: home with nothing. He goes to Brussels. And when he 404 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: goes to Brussels, he doesn't see I got something great 405 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: for Austria. He says, I've got a cool idea for 406 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: the Tyrol, and Brussels gives him money because Brussels understands 407 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: it is the ethnic regions that really are the truth. 408 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: And today the little language is nearper more widely spoken 409 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: uh now than they were a generation ago, because Europe 410 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: is embracing these sort of ethnic realities. I just love 411 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: this idea that there's that national pride that does not 412 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: die away, and when it's respected, I think things got better. 413 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: And this is an example of how when you travel 414 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: you I'm home with just a better, more human, more 415 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: real understanding of the dynamics that are shaping the headlines 416 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: that we're going to be reading throughout the rest of 417 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: our life. Well. I also liked how some of that 418 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: pride was also um shown in things like an appreciation 419 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: of cheese, and how that changed your perspective on how 420 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 1: cheese could be eaten. Could you talk a little bit 421 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: about that. That's that's a great example, you guys. And uh, 422 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: I always used my experience as a tour guide and 423 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: a travel writer in Europe is just sort of the 424 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: classroom for this. And uh, you know, when I grew up, 425 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: I was cheese was no big deal. It was orange 426 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: and the shape of the bread. You know, here you 427 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: go cheese sandwich. Uh. And you go to Europe and 428 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: and these European cheese mongers in Europe are evangelical about 429 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: their cheese. Going to like in France, you're going to 430 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: a cheese shop and and uh, it's just a festival 431 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: of mold. And I'll never forget that where I talked 432 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: about a couple as a political act. The cheesemongers saw 433 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: me as this American cultural bumpkin, you know, and im 434 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: as you're come over here and he picks up a 435 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: mouldi wad of goat cheese and he takes a deep 436 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: whip and he goes, oh, spell this cheese. It sells 437 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: like the feet of angels. You know. It seems a 438 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: little over the top. But but you know, even long 439 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: before that, as a tour guide, when I was a 440 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: kid doing you vagabond minibus tours around Europe. I had 441 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: a passion for exposing my Americans the stinky, expensive cheese. 442 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: You don't need to go home and have fancy taste 443 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: and cheese, but it is good to know that a 444 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: lot of people do and you have that option, And 445 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: to me, it's just humbling. I just love to shake 446 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: up my ethnocentricity and my cultural self assuredness and realize 447 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: that there's more than one way to live our lives 448 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: and we can really learn a lot. And it was 449 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: just a joy for me to to just kind of 450 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: collect all the most um fascinating and impactful experiences I've 451 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: had in in a lifetime of traveling out of my 452 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: comfort zone, hanging out with people who find different truths 453 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: to be self evident and God given, and and collect 454 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: all those experiences in my Travel as a Political act book. 455 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: I give the talk travel as a political collect all 456 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: over the United States. People can google and watch me 457 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: get the talk if they want to. And I thought 458 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: writing the book would just simply be giving the talk 459 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: to the page, you know, and writing up my talk. 460 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: But it didn't turn out very well that way. But 461 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: what I ended up doing was digging deeper and actually 462 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: going back to the original experiences in the field and 463 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: writing them up. And it's not it's a guidebook in disguise. 464 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: Travel as a politic collector is not designed so you 465 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: can go to Cuba, or go to Palestine, or or 466 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: go to Denmark and have the same experience I had. 467 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: It's just a reminder that we can we can connect 468 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 1: with people, and we can uh learn more about our 469 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: country by leaving and looking at it from a distance. 470 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: And the world's a fascinating classroom and we have that option. 471 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's not that you you shouldn't go to Masilon, 472 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: but you do have the option to go to Managua 473 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: instead of Masilan, and that would be h an adventure 474 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: that would broaden your viewpoint instead of your wasteline. I 475 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: love how you talk about hearing experiences from locals and 476 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: seeing history and foreign lens through their eyes, Like I 477 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: think you've got perspectives of a war torn region over 478 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 1: I think it was a green walnut, Grandpa. Or how 479 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: you got to see someone show you how they put 480 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 1: on a head scarf and how like one tiny twist 481 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: changes the meaning of it. But how do we get 482 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: that sort of insight when we're traveling within the US. Well, 483 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: that's a good question. My focus is traveling outside of 484 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: the US, and a lot of people, you know, a 485 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: lot of people just don't have the finances or the 486 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: the interest in going far away for whatever reason. And 487 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: our country is so multitasseted and h and multicultural, and 488 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, you can have these same sort of travel 489 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: experiences within our own country. That's something I'd like to 490 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: do more of. But you know, there's there's just rich cultures, 491 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: and for to me, I'm just so inspired by the 492 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: fact that there are really important things to some cultures 493 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: are not important to other cultures. There are cultures that 494 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: have baggage that other cultures don't have. There are cultures 495 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: that have Nathan Hales that other cultures don't have. I 496 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: was raised thinking, you know, Nathan Hale, Ethan l and 497 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: Patrick Henry were like like amazing patriots. Well they were 498 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: great patriots, but they weren't unique. And all over the 499 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: world you've got Nathan Hale's doing their thing. You mentioned 500 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: getting close enough to a culture where you learned that 501 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: just the twist of the headband on the scarf is 502 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: going to change the whole impression or meaning of how 503 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: this woman is wearing that scarf. You know, I had 504 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: the good fortune of going into a scarf shop in Istanbul, 505 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: and scarves are are very stylish for women. Uh, I'm interested. 506 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: How it's interesting how so many a lot of Americans 507 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: are just really put off by the fact that Muslims 508 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: make their women wear scarves. You know. Well, Jewish women 509 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: wear scarves after they're married, or they even wear wigs 510 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: if they're an orthodox Jewish family to go out. They 511 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: can't go out showing their own hair. I mean in 512 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: some families. And who am I to judged that students 513 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: until recent times also had women covering their hair. We're 514 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: all on parallel evolutionary tracks. And uh, you know, we've 515 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: had the Reformation, We've had the Revolution, We've had Vatican too. 516 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: You know, we've learned, we're affluent, we've benefited from time 517 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: and uh in a winning economic sort of system. Other 518 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: societies are are behind us, perhaps in their evolutionary track, 519 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: but hopefully you know, people are going in the in 520 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: the same direction. And we have to give everybody a 521 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: little wiggle room. All right, Well, we have time for 522 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: a few more questions for Rick. But before we get 523 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: to those. Let's take a quick break. Welcome back to 524 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius, and we're talking to one of our 525 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: favorite travel guides and travel writers, Rick Steves. I'm curious 526 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: if there is a trip that stands out as one 527 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: that maybe aide you most nervous before you went on it, 528 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: and where maybe you looked back and thought, you know, 529 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went on the trip. What was 530 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: I so nervous about to begin with? Is there one 531 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: or a couple that stand out more than others? Mhm, 532 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, I am. I've been fearful about a lot 533 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: of places in might travels. I for three times I 534 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: was planning on going to India when I was much younger, 535 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: and every year I found an excuse not to go 536 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: there because I was afraid of the extreme poverty. And 537 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: I finally got there and and it was it really 538 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: opened me up to the world. In India's my favorite 539 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: country on the planet. And I realized there's a lot 540 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: of squalor and a lot of desperation in India. But 541 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: there's an odd way to measure joy in book terms, 542 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: not in individuals, but in the book sense. A billion 543 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: people on the Indian subcontinent there's a lot of joy 544 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: on that continent. And it's even hard to i I 545 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: as did even to talk about it. But India rearranges 546 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: your cultural furniture better than any other place. Definitely m 547 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: to me. Before going to Egypt, I heard all these 548 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: scary stories about how intense the beggars were and it 549 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: was so hot that tires were melting to the streets, 550 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: and there's no maps anywhere, just so they can keep 551 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: you confused. And these were the stories that backpackers were 552 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: hearing in Greece before flying to Egypt. And I finally 553 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: flew there and it was an amazing experience. I'm so 554 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: glad I went there. I'll never forget walking across the 555 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: wall from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. First time I did it, 556 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: it was scary going into Palestine. And then after that, 557 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: after spending a few days in Palestine, I realized what's 558 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: most scary about it is it's a poor country. Uh 559 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's there's a tenfold difference in per capita 560 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: income from Israel to Palestine. There's a lot of hard 561 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: scrapple people, a lot of soldiers in the streets keeping 562 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: the peace and everything, and but there was nothing dangerous 563 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: about it. I just was afraid at first, I was 564 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: afraid to go to Iran. We almost left our big 565 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: professional TV camera in Athens, went in with our little 566 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: sneak camera, thinking people would be throwing stones at an 567 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: American film grew on the streets of Tehran, got to 568 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: Tehranto is that I swear in Iran. It was the 569 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: friendliest welcome I've ever received with my film crew. As 570 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: we're working the Tehran is a city of ten or 571 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: fifteen million people, I think, and um, we're a lot 572 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: of traffic jams, and uh, I'll never forget where it 573 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: stuck in one traffic jam, and it's just silent. And 574 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: finally the man in the next car asked my driver 575 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: to roll down his window. He passed over a bouquet 576 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: of flowers and he said, please give this to the 577 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: foreigner in your back seat and apologize for our traffic. 578 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: I just thought that never happened here in Seattle, I live. 579 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: You know the traffic in the traffic jam, But Theran 580 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: has that sort of warmth and beautiful person to person 581 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: um um loveliness that you wouldn't know if you didn't 582 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: travel there. And that's what I just love is that 583 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: vivid image of actually going there, whether it's uh, you know, 584 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: whether it's Guatemala or the Yucatan, or Morocco or Sri Lanka. 585 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: There's so many great places we can go to do, 586 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: and with travel as a political act, I just collect 587 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: my favorite experiences from a lifetime of travel like this 588 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: in hopes of inspiring Americans to go beyond Orlando. Well, 589 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: we love it so much, but before we can let 590 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: you go, uh, reg what would you tell us where 591 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: you're headed next or where you're excited to go next. Yeah, 592 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: I'm in a rut. For the last thirty years, I've 593 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: spent four months a year in Europe. Every year, I 594 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: spend April and May and the Mediterranean. I go home 595 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: in June and then I go back to the north 596 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: of the Alps for July and August. And I do 597 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: this to update and right my guide books. We've got 598 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: fifty Rick Steve's guide books all over Europe. I've got 599 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: a scout new TV shows. The biggest part of our 600 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: business here I work with a hundred people in Seattle 601 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: is my tour program. We took about twenty people on 602 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: a thousand different tours this last year, so I work 603 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: on the tour program and I take the tours, and 604 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: then I spend a lot of time producing the TV shows. 605 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: It takes six days to make one of our thirty 606 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: minute episodes for public television, and we do about a 607 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: dozen of those every two years. So that's what my 608 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: work is, and and I've got new projects all the time, 609 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: so I'll be filming in Sicily and Scotland this year. 610 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm also looking forward to doing a TV show one 611 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: hour Primmer on the fundamentals of global hunger and poverty, 612 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: and I'm going to use Ethiopia and Guatemala as a classroom, 613 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: so that'll be a new show we'll be offering through 614 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: public television, I hope in the next year. Wow, you're 615 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: an incredibly busy guy, and we really appreciate your spending 616 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: time with us. I hope all of our listeners will 617 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: check out the latest edition of Travel as a Political Act, 618 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: which I believe is out this week. But Rick, thanks 619 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Pleasure to talk to both 620 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: of you, and and happy travel. Thanks again for listening. 621 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of how stuff works 622 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do 623 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,719 Speaker 1: the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan 624 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme 625 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: song and does the xy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland 626 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: does the exact producer thing. Gave Loesier is our lead researcher, 627 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: with support from the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan 628 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: Brown and Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the 629 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like 630 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you 631 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: really really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave 632 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: a good review for us. Did you? Did you forget 633 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: Jens Jason who