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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived. To you, we never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two lizard girls who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I am Lola Blanc.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And today our guest is Antonio Perez. He's a former

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist who followed Alex Jones. He's going to talk

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Speaker 2: to us about why Jones is over the top theories

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Speaker 2: about the New World Order appealed to him, how his

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Speaker 2: addiction factored into his paranoid thinking, and the sense of

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Speaker 2: community that conspiracy theories provided him at his local bar

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Speaker 2: in the early Internet days.

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Speaker 1: We'll also discuss how uncovering each new element of a

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Speaker 1: supposed conspiracy provides little hitzodopamine that become addictive. How conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories are filling a need that could be met in

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Speaker 1: other ways, and why having an internal locus of control

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Speaker 1: is crucial to avert conspiratorial thinking.

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Speaker 2: Plus how he finally stepped away from the deep state

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Speaker 2: obsession and the book he's writing on how to help

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Speaker 2: people think for themselves again. Love it before we dive

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Speaker 2: into Antonio, Megan, kindly tell me what your cultiist thing

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Speaker 2: is this week.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was going to talk about the recent passing

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Speaker 1: of Lisa Marie Presley, very sad, heartbreaking. I was reading

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Speaker 1: some articles about how much of her money she ended

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Speaker 1: up giving to scientology.

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Speaker 2: And she was much a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was she made it? And you know she

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Speaker 1: got dropped off when she was eleven for hours of

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Speaker 1: therapy every day they'd put her in saunas. It was

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Speaker 1: really intense. But I'm not going to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's not going to be my cultiest thing. I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm kind of giving too. Okay, everybody's probably seen

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Speaker 1: this guy, but he's he's some like Silicon Valley dude.

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Speaker 1: His name is Brian Johnson. Very original, Yep, he's spending

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Speaker 1: two million dollars a year, he's forty five years old

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Speaker 1: to get the body of an eighteen year old, and

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Speaker 1: his doctors are saying that it is actually working. He

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Speaker 1: is reversing the clock, according to them, doctors quotation mark

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Speaker 1: and it says he's sent so far thirty three thousand

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Speaker 1: pictures of his shit to.

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Speaker 2: Them because apparently your shit of his poop? Yes, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So who are who is this person? He's just a

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Speaker 2: random tech guy who has a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: Random tech guy has a lot of money and he

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Speaker 1: wants to His big mission is to reverse the aging process.

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Speaker 1: So cult of youth, cult of rich people being insane?

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Speaker 2: Y is he doing? Like?

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Speaker 1: Is do you know?

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Speaker 2: How much do we know about this?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Is he doing like all of the supplements? Like I

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Speaker 2: know guys like five hundred supplements from company.

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Speaker 1: So many supplements. He's doing these really intense workouts every

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Speaker 1: day and his uh, he's taking his blood work all

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Speaker 1: the time. He wakes up at five a and dozens

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Speaker 1: of sub supplements.

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Speaker 2: Dude, I know a guy who is like, he's not

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Speaker 2: spending quite this much money because he doesn't have this

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Speaker 2: much money. But this is his mission. Let's look at

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Speaker 2: a picture of him, shall we. Yeah, No, that is

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Speaker 2: a man in his forties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he has the heart of a thirty seven

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Speaker 1: year old according to studies, Lola, he's handsome.

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Speaker 2: He's a handsome guy.

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Speaker 1: I guess he looks like frozen. Oh my god, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god. I went to high school with her in Kansas.

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Speaker 2: Are you serious? So Meganer just pulled up a picture

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Speaker 2: of him on the red carpet with a Oh.

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Speaker 1: Man, my god. I never understood why she was always

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Speaker 1: in private jets.

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Speaker 2: Whoa this listen, you guys, just some a revelation happening

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 1: WHOA Okay, well, okay, yeah one near all my friends

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Speaker 1: were like, do you want to come to Coachella?

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Speaker 2: We're going on blah Blah's private jet.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, why I went to.

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Speaker 2: Eighth grade with that girl? Why is she flying people

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Speaker 2: to Coachella? A lot's coming together for me right now, dude.

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Speaker 2: Oh to be rich, oh to have so much money

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Speaker 2: that these seem like normal things to you. I mean, okay, listen, like,

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Speaker 2: clearly this is a function of some kind of mental illness,

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Speaker 2: right Like, you can't get this obsessed down a rabbit

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Speaker 2: hole of fixing yourself unless your body dysmorphia is like

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Speaker 2: next level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that at the at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, he has enough money that he actually

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Speaker 1: is trying to like somebody needs to study reverse aging.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm seeing that Harvard reversed some aging on

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Speaker 1: mice here in this article, so you know, it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting experiment, But like, what do we want to reverse

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Speaker 1: people's age so that we all just live longer? Like

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Speaker 1: we're I feel like we all hit an age and

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Speaker 1: then we're just like wandering around.

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Speaker 2: I was reading actually about that there's some new genetic

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Speaker 2: science development that does seem promising for actually like getting

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Speaker 2: our genes to stop aging by like resetting them or something.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I get it. It's an interesting thing

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Speaker 1: to study. Yeah, yeah, but it's an odd thing for

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Speaker 1: someone to go this.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I under the research is super interesting. And

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Speaker 2: it got me like near panic attack just imagining everyone

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Speaker 2: walking around like ninety years old and looking like they're

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Speaker 2: twenty because I don't know, because change scares me. I

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Speaker 2: guess I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to know my big fear? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: keeps me up. Okay, I feel like we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: miss it.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean, like, oh, yeah, yeah, they're gonna

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Speaker 2: figure out immortality right after we die. Yeah, totally, totally. However,

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Speaker 2: you know, so I hope this isn't going too long,

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Speaker 2: but however, oh it is. I assure you. I just

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Speaker 2: watched that Netflix documentary on Infinity, and so no matter what,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry you guys, Like, no matter how long you

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Speaker 2: think you can live, like you're going to die anyway,

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Speaker 2: there's just no like so to me, it's all a

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Speaker 2: part of this project of death avoidance that we talked

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Speaker 2: about like last week or whatever, Like, sure, you can

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Speaker 2: live a really long time, it'll probably be weird. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it's gonna be a good thing that

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Speaker 2: will remain to be seen. But like, no matter what,

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Speaker 2: you're not gonna be able to avoid the actual ultimate

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Speaker 2: reality that like nothing matters. You're a spect the entire

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Speaker 2: universe is expanding until it will no longer exist. Core Right, Well,

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Speaker 2: I guess I don't need a cult, you saying because

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Speaker 2: that went on too long.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry about that, but you know, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot to explore.

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Speaker 2: With this man. There's so much more. I mean, hang on,

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Speaker 2: hang on the headline, says up at five am for

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Speaker 2: twenty five exercise workout, rinsing teeth with tea tree oil

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Speaker 2: and taking thirty three thousand, five hundred and thirty seven

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Speaker 2: images of his bowels. That's nice. What to tell me?

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Speaker 2: Talk to Antonio now about concruciy.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely think that we should, because yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: love this interview. I love Antonio. I do too.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's do it.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing worse than going to a doctor's appointment expecting

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Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, and then your doctor

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Speaker 1: seems like they have better things to do and better

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Speaker 1: places to be.

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Speaker 2: Instead of listening to you intently, asking you how you

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Speaker 2: feel and helping you along, the doctor is checking the clock.

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Speaker 1: On zoctoc, you'll find quality doctors who focus on you,

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Speaker 1: listen to you, and prioritize your care.

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Speaker 2: Zoctoc is the only free app that lets you find

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Speaker 2: and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance,

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Speaker 2: are available when you need them, and treat almost every

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Speaker 2: condition under the sun. As someone who gets weird little

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Speaker 2: infections that I don't need to go into the doctor

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Speaker 2: for every single time, personally, I freaking love online doctors.

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Speaker 2: This is the thing that has been good for me.

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Speaker 1: Love it. Surprise twists might work for podcasts, but maybe not.

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Speaker 2: For medical care. With zoctoc, there are no alarms and

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Speaker 2: no surprises.

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Speaker 1: Browse doctor profiles, upload and verify your insurance information, and

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Speaker 1: get the care you need.

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Speaker 2: Go to ZocDoc dot com, slash trust me and download

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Speaker 2: the zoc doc app for free. Then find and book

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Speaker 2: a top rated doctor today. Many are available within twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours.

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Speaker 1: That's z o c d oc dot com, slash trust me,

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Speaker 1: zuckdoc dot com, slash trust me.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Antonio Perez to trust me. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 2: you're here. We found you on Reddit. I think you're the.

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Speaker 3: QAnon Casualties group.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, you're first Reddit guests, So congratulations.

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Speaker 2: Important First, the reason that we have you on here

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Speaker 2: today is because you have your own story of believing

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Speaker 2: in conspiracy theories. And it all began with the man

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Speaker 2: named Alex Jones.

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Speaker 3: Yes, here's the thing. At the time I didn't believe

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Speaker 3: in I believe in them, but there's the idea that

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Speaker 3: a lot of things we think that we tell ourselves

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Speaker 3: so we don't know their beliefs of course grained in us.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, oh no, this is just the truth.

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Speaker 2: You just thought it was true. Yeah, totally. What year

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Speaker 2: was this and how did you first get exposed to

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Speaker 2: the ideas of Alex Jones? Tell us about your life.

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Speaker 3: So two thousand and one, I had a DUI probably

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Speaker 3: six months before it's almost for a little while, moved

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Speaker 3: in with my friend Nick, and I thought it would

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Speaker 3: be a good idea to go to being an alcoholic,

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Speaker 3: to go to the bar. It was a very redneck bar.

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Speaker 3: I still remember this guy. There's this old, crunchy looking

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Speaker 3: white guy. It's every Alex Jones. Sorry, he's going to

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Speaker 3: start with some had a I want to say, like

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Speaker 3: a leather jacket, do look like a biker who We're

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Speaker 3: sitting in the bar, And he had asked, He's like,

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Speaker 3: have you ever heard of Alex Jones? Like, no, who's that?

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Speaker 3: That was the introduction and the red flag should have

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Speaker 3: been his pocket constitution sticking out anybody. At one point

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Speaker 3: I even bought I think some pocket constitutions. I don't

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Speaker 3: know why I did that.

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Speaker 2: Is that is that like a common thing among I.

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Speaker 3: Think it is, you know you know, they always cling

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Speaker 3: to the constitution. You know, we want to be constitutionalists.

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Speaker 3: If anybody listening to this, if anybody approaches you and

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Speaker 3: they have a pocket constitution, turn do af.

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Speaker 2: That's very interesting. I imagine there must be someone out

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Speaker 2: there with the pocket Constitution who just really believes in freedom.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, you know there's a pattern. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: tell us a little bit more about about where you

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Speaker 2: were at in your life. So you you were an alcoholic.

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Speaker 3: Still, I mean, I don't necessarily like the label alcoholic.

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Speaker 3: Like aa they there's that belief that I'm powerless to alcohol.

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Speaker 3: I don't really necessarily buy into that. I quit drinking

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Speaker 3: seven six or seven years ago. Once s you're hetchy.

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Speaker 3: I've used to keep people from offering me drinks. As

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Speaker 3: I tell them I'm allergic, You're like, oh, what happens.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I break down handcuffs and they usually get

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Speaker 3: the point. I don'tn't offend anybody that's Mormon. I'm not Mormon,

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Speaker 3: but I'll tell them I'm Mormon, and they get really

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Speaker 3: where and they leave me alone.

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Speaker 2: Well as an actual form of Mormon, I find that funny.

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Speaker 2: I also don't drink. I just never have before or

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Speaker 2: and I totally get it because people are like, why

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Speaker 2: don't you want to drink? Or they assume I've been alcoholic,

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Speaker 2: or they want to know all the details about why

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Speaker 2: I don't drink, and I'm like, Oh, I don't feel

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Speaker 2: like talking about this right now.

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Speaker 3: Time pack things. I had a lot of grew up

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Speaker 3: with a lot of depression anxiety that it's basically unchecked

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Speaker 3: mental health. I had been looking into hypnosis to help

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Speaker 3: me a long time ago. I always liked the idea

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Speaker 3: of becoming a therapist. I had a lot of anxiety,

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Speaker 3: and when I was first introduced to Alex Jones, it

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Speaker 3: kind of opened the doors because there's the idea of

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Speaker 3: locus of control. Where am I putting my control? Is

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Speaker 3: it on the outside or outside forces controlling me? Or

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Speaker 3: is my locus of control my location of control inside

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Speaker 3: of me?

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Speaker 2: Like do I feel like I have agency over my

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Speaker 2: own life versus just I'm a victim of whatever happens

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Speaker 2: to me from the outside. So you felt at that

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Speaker 2: time like you didn't have agency, right, you felt like

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Speaker 2: it was the world coming at you.

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Speaker 3: And then when this stranger shows up with the Pocking

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Speaker 3: Constitution and explains it gives me an explanation of why

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Speaker 3: I feel miserable because the outside forces everything started to click.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I had that kind of aha moment.

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Speaker 2: Now did he start telling you specific like ideas or

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theories in that moment or was he just kind

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Speaker 2: of like, hey, this guy knows and then you kind

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Speaker 2: of looked Alex Jones up after God.

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Speaker 3: Keep in mind that was drinking heavy at the time,

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Speaker 3: so it's hard to ever. Yeah, it might have been

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Speaker 3: vague generalities, which something I've mentioned. I told you I'm

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Speaker 3: writing a book. In my book, I've mentioned how a

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Speaker 3: lot of people, you know, the idea of do your

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Speaker 3: own research. Every conspiracy theorist, it tells people to do

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Speaker 3: their own research. My theory is the reason people say

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Speaker 3: do your own research is it's a game to people.

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Speaker 3: Let's say I'm a conspiracy theorist. Now, why would I

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Speaker 3: deprive you of learning the stuff on your own?

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Speaker 1: It makes it seem more reliable, and then you get

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Speaker 1: the dopamine hits of finding it out for yourself, and

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Speaker 1: then we're in the cycle.

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Speaker 3: Dopamine runs through the veins, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, for you in particular, you started kind of

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Speaker 2: doing your own research by what, like watching Alex Jones

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Speaker 2: show because obviously this is before like the current iteration

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Speaker 2: of the internet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, oh god, I can I can hear

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Speaker 3: his freaking documentaries in the background. I had like the

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Speaker 3: Rise of the Police State, and the thing is they're

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Speaker 3: put together really really really well. To spike that fear, I.

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Speaker 2: Didn't actually know that he had like actual documentaries definition documentary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah well sure, yeah, but like films. I just knew

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Speaker 2: about the show.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing that made him seem reliable. I

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Speaker 3: just thought about this is he would sell things, but

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Speaker 3: he would tell people just give it a way freely.

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Speaker 3: So I'm I think a lot of people felt like,

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Speaker 3: why would he want you to do that? Like he's

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Speaker 3: he's trying to expose a new world order. It's a

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Speaker 3: brand building for him. When it comes.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's like giving out free samples at costco.

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Speaker 4: I also like that you said that he would say

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Speaker 4: stuff like if they lied about nine to eleven, what

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Speaker 4: else would they lie about? Or little stuff like that

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Speaker 4: that would get your mind thinking in that same dopamine

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Speaker 4: hitting researching.

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Speaker 3: Because you start focusing on the conclusion where uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: power questions are powerful right when you start, if somebody says,

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Speaker 3: if they lied about X, Y and Z, what else

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Speaker 3: did they lied about? It looks like that the meme

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Speaker 3: of I think Charlie Day from K Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: every piece of every bit of knowledge.

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Speaker 2: We referenced that meme a lot, but we need to

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Speaker 2: have a short, shortcut or like a nickname for that

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Speaker 2: meme because yeah, it's so irrelevant to the stuff that

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Speaker 2: we talk about here. Yeah, once you like see the patterns,

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Speaker 2: then it's all you know, it all comes together. And

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Speaker 2: there's a term for that that I actually did not

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Speaker 2: know until I read the chapters that you said to us.

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Speaker 2: And you want to tell us what that term is, yesenia,

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Speaker 2: So that the definition of apophenia is to perceive a

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Speaker 2: connection or meaningful pattern between unrelated or random things. And boys,

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Speaker 2: does this kind of seem to summarize so much of

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Speaker 2: these sort of subcultures that are happening today, they are

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Speaker 2: that meme. Basically, I just want to know more about

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Speaker 2: this process. I want to know more. So were you

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Speaker 2: like renting movies and like and you're you're hearing these

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Speaker 2: questions and then you're sort of drawing your own conclusions,

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Speaker 2: like what did you actually believe.

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Speaker 3: So at the time, I remember hearing about Alex Jones

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Speaker 3: and I I think Google was around the time, feeling

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Speaker 3: this was actually no, I don't know. This might have

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Speaker 3: been around the time of like metacrawl, or I can't

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Speaker 3: this is a while ago. Look up Alex Jones. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if I went, I might have gone directly

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Speaker 3: to his website. Anyhow, I found his I think it

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Speaker 3: was nine to eleven Rises of the Police State, and

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Speaker 3: I just started spiraling. It's kind of hard. In the book,

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Speaker 3: I talk about this idea of I have amnesia for

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Speaker 3: parts of my life. That part of my life is

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Speaker 3: because it's embarrassing. I think part of my it's almost

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Speaker 3: like trauma. If you have something embarrassing where you you

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Speaker 3: kind of split off, like I don't want to remember that. Well,

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Speaker 3: i've been writing the book. I've been kind of reminding

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Speaker 3: myself of some of the crazy things I believed.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I was about some of them.

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Speaker 3: So two thousand and seven, I think it was. It

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Speaker 3: was Super Bowl in Detroit. They're getting ready behind my parents' house.

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Speaker 3: There was a the Tiger Stadium and what happened it

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Speaker 3: was probably one in the morning. I saw blimp outside

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Speaker 3: it was Samuel Blimp. So I remember thinking, like, why

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Speaker 3: would they fly over now that I know they're probably marketing,

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Speaker 3: trying to promote their their products Saniel s a n Yo.

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Speaker 3: I think they made like chips or phones and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: Next thing I know, I ended up calling my friend

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Speaker 3: who was a nine to eleven truther out of California,

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Speaker 3: and we were talking about how I believed it was

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Speaker 3: a like a surveillance blimt because everybody's getting sent to

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Speaker 3: to female Hampson martial law camps, which I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: guys have heard all this stuff before I actually recorded.

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Speaker 3: It's so when I listened to now, it's so embarrassing,

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Speaker 3: it's so cringey. But I at one point in the

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Speaker 3: audio I was talking about like George Bush and satanic

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Speaker 3: pedophile cronies. Looking back at it, I'm like, oh my god.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm so glad I pulled myself out of that.

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Speaker 2: And so I can't believe I didn't realize that that

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Speaker 2: was such a pervasive narrative even back then, like from

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Speaker 2: the Satanic pedophile thing. I mean, obviously it comes in waves.

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Speaker 2: There was an there was a big wave in the

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Speaker 2: eighties and early nineties. But from my perspective, all I

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Speaker 2: saw was like, oh, the rise of QAnon. People are

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Speaker 2: talking about the cobal of Satanic pedophiles. But turns out

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Speaker 2: that was going on even back then.

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Speaker 3: Well it the people are pushing QAnon. They knew if

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Speaker 3: they kept up with, you know, the blood libel saying

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Speaker 3: that Jews are eating babies, we could call them racists.

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Speaker 3: For thousands of years, Jews were the ones that were

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Speaker 3: accused of eating babies, killing Christian babies, et cetera, drinking

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Speaker 3: the blood, et cetera, and so the whole Satanic pedophile

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Speaker 3: it's just a throwback to that anti Semitic trol.

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Speaker 2: That's really interesting. Yeah, you can you can say it's

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Speaker 2: the Hollywood elite. I mean, now there is so much

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Speaker 2: outright anti Semitism and they're not really even that afraid

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Speaker 2: of it anymore. But you're you're absolutely right. It was

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Speaker 2: like the elite in quotation marks, and there's like plausible

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Speaker 2: deniability about it just being racism.

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Speaker 3: But you know, one thing I started mentioning. I started

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Speaker 3: talking to people a lout two or three years ago

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Speaker 3: the Jews off or off topic. I don't know why. It.

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Speaker 3: Usually Jews are the first scapegoat of every conspiracy theory. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I think when they switch it to QAnon came out,

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Speaker 3: they're talking about democrats or eating babies, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: It's easier to get away saying that Democrats are eating

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Speaker 3: babies versus Jews because there's so much there's so much

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Speaker 3: tied up with anti.

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Speaker 2: Semitic ru Yeah, you're so right. I remember reading this

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Speaker 2: book The Origins of Totalitarianism, where she's talking about the

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Speaker 2: history of kind of conspiracy. I mean, she's talking about

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Speaker 2: a lot of things leading up to World War Two

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Speaker 2: and the Holocaust, but the conspiracy theories along those exact

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Speaker 2: lines are so so deeply rooted in history. You're absolutely

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Speaker 2: right about that, And it's just like it just keeps

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Speaker 2: reservicing in all these different forms, and people like Alex

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Speaker 2: Jones obviously are major contributors to the problem. So, like,

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Speaker 2: how did this affect your daily life? So you started

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one, you first heard his name,

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Speaker 2: and you're talking about all the way in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven, two thousand and eight, you're still kind of

399
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Speaker 2: believing this stuff, Like did you were you talking about

400
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Speaker 2: it to people? Did you have friends who believed in it, Like, yes.

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Speaker 3: I talked about it, And it's funny. I talked to

402
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Speaker 3: my mom about it recently, where I thought they were

403
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Speaker 3: like they would believe me at the time, But now

404
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 3: when I talked to her, she's like, yeah, we're waiting

405
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Speaker 3: for like see when you would fall out of it.

406
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Speaker 3: So at the time, yeah, I thought like, oh, these people,

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Speaker 3: these people believe me. I think it's almost like if somebody,

408
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Speaker 3: if your family runs a pyramid scheme, they just they

409
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Speaker 3: just put up with you. They're like, yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: uh huh.

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Speaker 2: We get it that it's.

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Speaker 3: Not that they agree with you, they just don't want

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Speaker 3: to become part of uh, they don't want to aggravate

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Speaker 3: you anymore.

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Speaker 2: Right, That's smart. I mean that's like, that's a lot

416
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Speaker 2: of what we hear from experts is that that is

417
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Speaker 2: kind of the way to go is just kind of

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Speaker 2: like maintain the relationship.

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Speaker 3: And gray rocking.

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Speaker 2: Well, No, not not that so much as like, you know,

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Speaker 2: when someone is really entrenched in a belief you disagree with,

422
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Speaker 2: instead of like attacking their belief, you kind of stay

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Speaker 2: in their lives and be there for when they're ready

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Speaker 2: to emerge out of it.

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Speaker 3: So the other thing is, I don't know when it was.

426
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Speaker 3: I was working at a bar in Detroit. It's two

427
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Speaker 3: thousand and two thousand and two. Maybe I was there

428
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Speaker 3: for two or three years. I can't remember. Anyhow, we

429
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Speaker 3: decided to break the cardinal rule of no politics, no religion.

430
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Speaker 3: In the bar. We had a conspiracy theory Bruin View.

431
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Speaker 3: So we would every Sunday we would gather. We would

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Speaker 3: I think it was a second second night. My friend

433
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Speaker 3: came out from the bar. It was my main corehor

434
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Speaker 3: in conspiracy theories, came out with sart handy tinfoil. I'm like,

435
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, what's this for. He's like, that's like, holy.

436
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: Sorry, just a quick thing.

437
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 4: Like one of the things that you said in the

438
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 4: book that's so interesting is when once you guys start meeting,

439
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 4: is when it really starts, right, Yeah, okay, so this

440
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 4: is when it starts kind of I want to say

441
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 4: ranking up, but I don't know if that's what I'm

442
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 4: looking for.

443
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 3: We started, there's other people that believe it exactly. There's

444
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 3: other people that believe it.

445
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: Right when you first were supposed to it, it was

446
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: just kind of like a guy and kind of you

447
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: on your own and then you like found other friends

448
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 2: or like tell us about how that community formed.

449
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 3: How the community formed. We MySpace that okay, that was

450
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys don't only remember my Space,

451
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: but the MySpace days we had a website. My friend

452
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 3: Abe at the time will lose that finished my acquaintance.

453
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 3: We created something called the Truth Information Network I think

454
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 3: it was Truth Information Network dot net. What it was,

455
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 3: it was a way for people in my space. He

456
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: had coded to where you can if you were a

457
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: a Truther, patriots c you could go there. You could

458
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: add your profile, click submit, and it would basically create

459
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: a database of We created this so just in case

460
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: if like Marshall hits a fan, we can all connect

461
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: with one another, which is kind of funny. We were

462
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: extremely paranoid about the government making a database of us,

463
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: so instead we just made.

464
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 4: It I mean incredibly organized. Also, to be fair, you

465
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 4: guys are going the extra mile.

466
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: You know, this is early Internet, and you found this

467
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 2: community and like found that and made it happen in person,

468
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 2: Like you're doing this stuff in person and finding that community.

469
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: So now, I mean it's like that on steroids, right,

470
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much connectedness gave us.

471
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 3: Connectedness gave us purpose. And the other thing I mentioned

472
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 3: in the book is about a lot of conspiracy theorists

473
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 3: have they feel powerless whole idea. They feel powerless outside

474
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 3: forces are controlling them, and at the same time they

475
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 3: want to be significant. I wanted to be the hero

476
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: of the stories. I was telling myself, is I want

477
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 3: to be the hero I want to be.

478
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: You know, we had on a conspiracy theory researcher.

479
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 3: What was the guy's name, do you remember.

480
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Mikey Biddlestone. Okay, So there have been studies showing a

481
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: statistical correlation between people who believe in conspiracy theories and

482
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: people who rank high in narcissism. Because of that feeling

483
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: of like I'm going to be the one to solve it,

484
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: to fix it. I've got the privileged information, I have

485
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: this special knowledge. It makes sense that it would attract

486
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: people who really want that, like Alex Jones. Like Alex Jones.

487
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then I feel like people who have just

488
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: the like want to help, and that kind of drive

489
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 4: is probably more where you fall into it.

490
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: Well kind of falls in I have. At one point

491
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: I talked to my girlfriend A couple of years ago,

492
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 3: where I I think I might have some of the

493
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 3: tendencies of my dad, Like my dad's a great my

494
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 3: dad is a phenomenal storyteller. But most narcissists are They

495
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: know what people want to hear, and I think I've

496
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: seen those tendencies in myself before. So I've been lucky

497
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: to find self hypnosis NLP and or linguistic programming that

498
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: has really I've used it to really transform aspects of

499
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: my reality and my personality and behaviors. So a lot

500
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 3: of narcissists, we all know that they are not happy.

501
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: They try to make themselves appear happy, so I think,

502
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 3: but yeah, definitely, narcissism definitely goes with conspiracy theories. And

503
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 3: I think there's an idea with I mentioned earlier how

504
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 3: people want to be the hero, but it's almost like

505
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: an abusive relationship where you get into interest, it just

506
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: perpetuates the abusive relationship. The person can't get away from conspiracy.

507
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: It's like you see with a loved one, that is,

508
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: they're stuck on their phone looking at truth social or

509
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: gab or whatever social media they're using, and they can't

510
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 3: break away from that cycle.

511
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: It's very addict and why do you think it's so addicting?

512
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 2: Tell us about that? What was it? Why was it

513
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: for you?

514
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 3: If I were to look at it from like a

515
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 3: behavioral perspective, dopamine, it's like classical classical conditioning. I that's

516
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 3: part of it. I think for me, it maybe gave

517
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 3: me a reason to understand why I was depressed. Mmm.

518
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 2: Interesting, Like here's an because like the world is so

519
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: fucked and there's so much that's bad going on. Of

520
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: course I feel bad kind of it's if you.

521
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: Guys have heard of NLP. Yeah, NLP. There's the idea

522
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 3: of the map is not the territory, map is not

523
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: the territory, or the menu is not the meal. I

524
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: actually mentioned that in the book. It's like the idea

525
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: of the menu is not the meal. One story I

526
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: talked about in the book when I had gone to

527
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 3: a restaurant my birthday. Everything in the menu look awesome.

528
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 3: I mean, the food was incredible, and then the chocolate

529
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: cape got it, took a bite, and it tasted horrible.

530
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: The idea is the menu isn't necessarily the food. So

531
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: it's meaning our interpretation of reality is not the same thing.

532
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: So a lot of times we see we see a

533
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: really mess up place, but there's still plenty of amazing

534
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: things are going on that we're just not focusing on

535
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: those things, or we're we need to reframe how we

536
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: see other things.

537
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can basically draw any conclusion that

538
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: you want, uh, And it's kind of a matter of

539
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: what you choose to focus on. Oh. Yeah, like the

540
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: world is great, the world is horrible, people are good,

541
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: people are bad. I mean, all of these things are

542
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: simultaneously true. So wherever you like choose to you know,

543
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: put your emphasis is, that will be the thing that

544
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: kind of grows for you. And in you know, in

545
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: the case of conspiracy theorist, there's a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah,

546
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: at play.

547
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: I don't if this ties into it, but there's the

548
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: idea when people if something bad happens, people say everything

549
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: happens for a reason, which I think is bullshit. Something

550
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: sometimes you said there can be good and they can

551
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 3: be bad simultaneously.

552
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

553
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 2: I want to know more about, like if I'm believing

554
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 2: that there's a satanic couple of people who are pedophiles

555
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: ruling the world, Like what is my average day like

556
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: in terms of like viewing the world through that belief like,

557
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 2: are you in fear a lot like? Or is it exciting?

558
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: It's a game, it's a game game. It's kind of

559
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: scary at this At one point it's kind of scary.

560
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: Another point, it's exciting because you're getting these little tidbits

561
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: of information. It's like when Q was I thank god

562
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: I got.

563
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: Job, right, Yeah, I would have ended up at the Capitol, right,

564
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: I think so.

565
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: That would have been one of the few Mexicans at

566
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: the Capitol. Not like not that group would not like me, right?

567
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: Would you get paranoid that like the government was onto

568
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 4: you or that the bad people would come after you?

569
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I say you. Chapter four talks of yeah,

570
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: I'll tell a story about this. So we're doing conspiracy theory.

571
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: Brood fear for threw in view for years. One day

572
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: the I took a cab to work. I get to

573
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: work and the restaurant's normally bustling, got people walking in

574
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 3: and out, lights are off. I get up to the

575
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 3: front and there's a piece of paper on the door.

576
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: I can't remember what I said, but I think it

577
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: said something something like Michigan government, government, what the business

578
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: has been shut down? And I remember thinking, just like oh, man,

579
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 3: I can feel my heart started race. Remember panicking thinking like,

580
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 3: oh ship the New World are They're on to us,

581
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 3: They're trying to shut us down. Oh.

582
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: I was paranoid like oh yeah yeah.

583
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: And it didn't help that. I was what's that? What

584
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: was I doing at the time? Cocaine? Yeah, that did

585
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: not help.

586
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: We'll do it.

587
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, mental health and conspiracy theories bad como.

588
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you from Michigan? Was this in Michigan?

589
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 3: Yep?

590
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm from Michigan. Where in Michigan are you from?

591
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 3: Where?

592
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: On the uh hand, right in the middle north of

593
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: Grand Rapids is where I'm from.

594
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: Originally from an arbor area. Then I lived in Corktown

595
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: for years.

596
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: Nice and now you're in Hawaii. So tell us about

597
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: some of the things that you thought were real that

598
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: now you think.

599
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: I think, say one thing about that when I so

600
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 3: I I got home, remember him being really paranoid and

601
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: in front of call. I think I called a friend

602
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: like freaking out that I worked with my main conspiracy

603
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: cohort and I'm like losing my mind and paranoid about

604
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: what happened. It came and found out the owner did

605
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 3: not pay his taxes because he was known for that

606
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: he was, so I guarantee a good chance the piece

607
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: of paper price said something like tax.

608
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 4: Price right right, but your brain didn't even see it.

609
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: The idea of one idea from NLP is we we distort,

610
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: we generalize, and we delete information in our experience because

611
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: this is we can't think. We can't remember every single

612
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 3: thing from experience, so we will delete certain things. So

613
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: I obviously deleted or distorted that sign to the point

614
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: where I used as evidence that they're coming after us.

615
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 4: So wacky, Yeah, I did. I've done similar things.

616
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: I'm all too, we all do. I mean, that's a

617
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 2: human thing. Is like, there's too much information coming out

618
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: our brains at all times. We have to filter it somehow,

619
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: and we take mental shortcuts because that's our brains have

620
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: to in order to i mean energy.

621
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: Our brains get more information in an hour than our

622
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: ancestors did in like twenty thousand years.

623
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: It's so crazy, I know, so weird. So yes, especially

624
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: if you're on fucking Twitter, yeah, or truth social or

625
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: whatever exactly.

626
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 3: But it's funny. I do have a parlor account. My

627
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 3: account was my handle was not an FBI agent. I'm

628
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: like whatever, I'm gonna control.

629
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: The nice all right, tell us about some of your

630
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: beliefs that now sound crazy to you, or don't sound

631
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 2: crazy to you. What did you think was going on camps?

632
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: Oh, they're coming for us, They're coming for us, and

633
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: even like hen trails. I remember one day I had

634
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: after the conspiracy theater ruined view that's usually with my

635
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: my PARENTO with Spike is we were partying doing coke,

636
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: watching conspiracy movies at my friend's house and we're up

637
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: to like I have them or whatever, walk outside and

638
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: just seeing like, uh, you know, the clouds are all

639
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: thinking like, oh my god, they're trying to poison us.

640
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 3: While I'm shit, I just thought about this while I'm

641
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: doing coke. I'm like, they're trying to poison us.

642
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: Listen, doing it to yourself is different than them doing

643
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: it to us.

644
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was that. I never think. I never

645
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: fell into the vaccine rhetoric. That was right when I

646
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 3: was kind of falling out of it, thought they were

647
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: coming for our guns.

648
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: Do you have guns? I mean, was that a thing

649
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: you were worried about?

650
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: No? I not necessarily. We Actually my dad did get

651
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: a shotguns. At one point I got stand abed here

652
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: in my shoulder for a cell phone.

653
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: Whoa oh gosh, wow, but you weren't like a hunter.

654
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: No, no shotgun, just just to be said. Even the

655
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: police told us like he just be safe because we

656
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: got a shot up the house. Because I forgot stabbed.

657
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to risk with us anymore.

658
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: Steve is asking what happened? But he got stabbed? You up? Robbed?

659
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: Is that?

660
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: Yeah? I was walking down to two. I think it's

661
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: cigarettes park over here. He's asked me if I wanted

662
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: to buy tree if by weed. I'm like, I'm like no, no.

663
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: As I'm walking back, he's wearing a backpack and he

664
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: asked me if I had a cigarette. I'm like no,

665
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: I going to throw it down. And as I walk

666
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: and I see the guy coming with this arm and

667
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 3: I feel something here. At that point, I didn't know

668
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: it was a knife, but yeah, that was that was scary.

669
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: It was basically wrong a wrong place at the wrong time.

670
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: MM. That is crazy. Not many people they can say

671
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: that they have been stabbed. So I guess that's a

672
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: congratulation on your interest belt.

673
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: Avoid if you.

674
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: Can try, try. I try every day, definitely.

675
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: I do remember one day there was this. I've been

676
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: trying to find the website, trying to look at it

677
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: again to see how shoddy the website was. It was

678
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: a website that was basically talking about Jews, that it

679
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 3: wasn't I think I think it probably start for like

680
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: kind of softball questions are question, you know, like the

681
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: big question talking about Jews, and then that's why I

682
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: snowballed in some anti Semitic bullshit. But I didn't consider

683
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: myself racist, just like I'm out racist, but I'm out racist.

684
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: I think one way I used to what's that word

685
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: to justify it is there's the idea of there's Jews

686
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: and then there's Zionists. I don't know if you have

687
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 3: a yes, I've used that. Even there's a video there's

688
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: a Jewish guy, David Cole that made a quote unquote

689
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: made a documentary of out about the Holocaust basically being fake.

690
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: There was a Jewish guy that made a really really

691
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: shodily put together video about the Holocaust being fake. So

692
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: that right there, I thought like, wow, if this Jew's

693
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: doing it must be real. Wow.

694
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it fed into your worldview, So it just

695
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: clicked right in there and trucking right along.

696
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, in lo and behold he's a Trump supporter now chucking.

697
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 4: I just would love to know what was so intriguing

698
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 4: too about Alex Jones in particular.

699
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: God energetic. I think you're like very charismatic, very enthusiastic.

700
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: I have to think about that.

701
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: Did it was it like his confidence? Did he just

702
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: seem like this is a guy who knows what he's

703
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: talking about, because's saying it so confidently.

704
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 3: And I think there's almost the idea like the ambush journalism,

705
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: like oh look, oh okay. I think it's part of it,

706
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: like this, like there's so many videos where he ambushes

707
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 3: people and it's almost like, ah, I got It's almost

708
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: like he's a hero you want to be. He's a

709
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: hero that conspiracy they just want to be you can.

710
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: It's almost like you want to like he he's a

711
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: hero by proxy, like I want to. I think that's

712
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 3: kind of what it is, right.

713
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 2: Right, Like he's out there like exposing conspiracies and saving

714
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: people and doing the good work.

715
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: It like it is just.

716
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 4: A straight shoot or not scared like the bullshit, right

717
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 4: Alex Jones.

718
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's until his lawyer hands over his phone.

719
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 4: Too, right, So do people that have been believing in

720
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 4: him for a early long time. Has this recent court

721
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: case where he's basically had to admit he's full of shit?

722
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 4: Has it shifted anything in the people that you used

723
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 4: to or just made them double down? Got it?

724
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like the idea that any proof the conspiracy

725
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 3: is fake is proof that it's real.

726
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 4: Exactly.

727
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it is interesting, like you know, after

728
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 2: Trump didn't get into office again and save the children

729
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: like everyone thought, there were people who kind of, you know,

730
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: fell out of QAnon as a result or started questioning.

731
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: And I imagine there are some people who started questioning

732
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: Alex Jones after the and.

733
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: One one thing that kind of another thing that kind

734
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 3: of got me out of it was moved to why

735
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, which is the best thing. I

736
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 3: think my parents they knew they they came here on

737
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: vacation two thousand and six, offered teaching jobs here, and

738
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: I think part of the reason for them wanted to

739
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 3: come out here was to maybe see if that would

740
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: reset my depression get me out of there. One thing,

741
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: I one question that was a question or I told myself,

742
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: what if the new New World or is real? I

743
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: can't do shit about it right. It was almost like

744
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: from like acceptance and commitment therapy, you just accept what is.

745
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 3: Once I started, I came from that frame. I'm like,

746
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: oh God, I don't have to worry about anymore. It's

747
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: it's like the idea when somebody's anxious about something, like

748
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Like a

749
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: good example, I had a friend that wanted me to

750
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: work put an application for his company was working for

751
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: I think it was Gravity Payments, And I talked to

752
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: my friend like, you know what, I'm like, what if

753
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: I don't get the job, I'm all nervous. I'm on

754
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: the phone with him. He's like, do you have the

755
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: job now? I'm like no. He's like, then there's no difference.

756
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, good frame.

757
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. So do you think that like this

758
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: idea of the new World Order coming to be was

759
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: was that something that was giving you a lot of anxiety?

760
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, like you have to do something

761
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: like you're always on edge because you're gonna have to

762
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: do something about it.

763
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, all cylinders just amped up, like like a rat

764
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: in a maze is running around constantly.

765
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: Right, that must be exhausting.

766
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 4: Global warming kind of makes me feel that the same.

767
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 4: It ruins my life on a daily and it's like,

768
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, we can do a

769
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 4: lot about it, but how much can we really did?

770
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: Reframe does work on both sides. I think a little.

771
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: Bit about global warming it's fake.

772
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: No fun.

773
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: A lot of conservatives will say, oh, they changed to

774
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 3: climate change, you know, they always being the argument, Oh

775
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: what now it's climate change. It was actually a Republican

776
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: that changed it from global warming to climate change. Oh,

777
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: I forget the guy's name. I think it's George. It

778
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 3: may be George Luntz. He's a I think it's George Lutz.

779
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: I'm blank. Anyhow, there's yeah, he's a think tank for

780
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: for conservatives, and he knew that it would be it

781
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: would be either playing game for them to change it

782
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 3: to climate change.

783
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, I totally I totally get that. It's like

784
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: you when you comes back to that feeling that we've

785
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: talked about, Megan, it is sort of that locus of

786
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: control or that agency, like when you feel completely powerless,

787
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: like it just wears on you. It wears on you.

788
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: You feel like you have to do something, but you

789
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: don't know what to do.

790
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 4: There's and then you hate the people that you feel

791
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 4: like won't stop doing the things that are causing the problems,

792
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 4: and it's just like rex real havoc on you as

793
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: an individual. Again, obviously there's things that we all have

794
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 4: to be concerned about, but individually, you know, you're right,

795
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 4: You're not going to stop the New World Order by

796
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 4: yourself unless you're an Hollywood movie.

797
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I imagine that if you're on the like

798
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: qboards or whatever that you're I imagine there's this illusion

799
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: of a lot, yes, like people power, you know, like, oh,

800
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: if we all get together, And that's why I imagine

801
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: people are show actually showing up in person of things

802
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 2: because they feel empowered by each other. Right, it's a

803
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: lot easier to feel that community in conspiracies now, and

804
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: that's why.

805
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: When people they're talking people are right about about the

806
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: Right trying to bring civil war. I'm like, look what

807
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 3: they did in the in January six. They can't pull

808
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: it off. They're bumbling idiots. They can't pull it off.

809
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: And I've referred to the January six as the Hillbilly

810
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: Holocaust or Hillbilly hunger games.

811
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: Q and on beliefs now are so pervasive that they that,

812
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: like I want to say, a major or close to

813
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: or nearly a majority of Republicans believe in at least

814
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: like some QAnon perpetuated beliefs. So that really scares me,

815
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: to be honest. There and there are people who are

816
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: like avid Quinon, people who are actually in office and

817
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: have voting power. So like, it looks like crazy people

818
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: from the outside. And I don't want to call anyone

819
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: who believes in it crazy because I know that they're

820
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: just indoctrinated and they're obviously like struggling in their lives. However,

821
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: to actually storm the capital is a crazy thing to do, Yeah,

822
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 2: but I don't think that. I think it is more

823
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: dangerous in the more subtle ways than that. I think

824
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: that once those beliefs sort of trickle down and become mainstream,

825
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: that's when it becomes actually quite dangerous.

826
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: And there's the idea of behaviors. Al what's that called

827
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: a function of behavior? All behaviors have some kind of

828
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: positive intent behind them, Like anxiety for me was anxiety

829
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: for me generally tries to keep me safe. Storming the capital,

830
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: even though it's a very bad thing to do, it

831
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 3: does something for that person they think. They probably think, oh,

832
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: we're gonna protect kids, So they're trying to do a

833
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: noble thing, but they're going about it by a really

834
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: messed up a way.

835
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 2: Totally totally. I mean, I think that's a really important point.

836
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: I mean, no one is setting out to like just

837
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: be crazy or like they don't think that what they're

838
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: doing is hurting people. They think that what they're doing

839
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: is saving people, right, Like, they are so convinced that yeah,

840
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: this cabal is real and that children must be saved

841
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 2: and children do need to be saved, but not from

842
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: who they think, and not in the ways that they

843
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: think that is just they're just wrong.

844
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, and I think part of it is

845
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 3: very disillusioning and depressing to think your ideas could be wrong.

846
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: Down the line almost to the point where I don't

847
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: know if you've seen this, but you see people that

848
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 3: are almost rooting like like, we want these satanic pedophiles

849
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 3: to be real. They want it to be real. It

850
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: doesn't look like egg on the face.

851
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 2: Totally.

852
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

853
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: The more you believe in something, the harder it is

854
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: to admit that it was wrong and that you wasted

855
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: your time and committed to that thing and you look

856
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: like an idiot, and you feel like an idiot. And also,

857
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, speaking to just my own personal

858
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: experience in my life, believing in a you know, a

859
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 2: prophet and quotation marks. I wanted it to be real

860
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: because if it was real, I was special. And if

861
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: it wasn't real, then I was just a normal kid

862
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 2: who wasn't like bringing about the second Coming of Jesus

863
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: Christ or whatever.

864
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 3: One thing that I think helped me, I'm not sure

865
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 3: if it helped me. Have you guys ever heard of

866
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 3: the Eastern philosophy of the you know, the Chakras, the

867
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 3: Kundalini system m hm, so years ago, and I'm a

868
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 3: very science minded person, very analytical. I decided to have

869
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 3: a Kundalini awakening, and I thought, I thought like it

870
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: was I'm like, this sounds like hogwash, but it also

871
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 3: sounds kind of cool. People talk about being really feeling

872
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: real psychedelic. So I first myself to have Kundalini awakening

873
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 3: one day and it got to the point where it

874
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 3: almost felt like like the caffeine peels like mini thins.

875
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: Do you ever remember those where the Confederate you could

876
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 3: feel like your skin kind of crawling. At one point,

877
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 3: even my stomach started to like kind of need automatically.

878
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was my theory, and it's

879
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: a very loose theory, is there's maybe DMT somewhere in

880
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: the spinal core. I don't know. Lastly, it felt like

881
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: a psychedelic experience. I at one point imagining the energy

882
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 3: come from my spine. I remember seeing like a blue

883
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 3: flame and this is like clear as day. It felt

884
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: like taking some kind of psychedelic Along with that came

885
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: auditory hallucinations for a short time, and I started getting

886
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 3: these I think they call myotonic twitches. I would get

887
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: these twitches every once in a while in my body.

888
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: That it's kind of hard. It's such a hard experience

889
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: to talk about or to explain. Can you explain that, Like, oh, yeah,

890
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: I was doing the thing and I felt like my

891
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 3: body was electrified. And even the most tech talk about

892
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: with Kundelini talks about how it feels like it's like

893
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 3: heat rushing up the spine, getting your head and cause

894
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: a headache and whatnot. For about six months after my

895
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: paranoia in depression skyrocketed. Yeah, I one of my theories

896
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: is having that experience might have helped to kind of

897
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 3: burn depression up. I don't know, like it's not it's

898
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: not scientific at all, but that's that's my story and

899
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: I'm sticking to it well.

900
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 4: As someone who's obsessed with the Chakras and Kundelini, I

901
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 4: think that you're probably correct.

902
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: I Jerry's out for me because I would want research,

903
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: but you know, because you bought between me and you thought.

904
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 4: After the six months it kind of dissipated the ship

905
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 4: that you've been going through before. But it got worse

906
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 4: for a little bit.

907
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 3: Got worse like I was getting. At one point, I

908
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: told my parents I thought it was schizophrenic. For a

909
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: little while, I was like getting auditory hallucinations.

910
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: And it did you do DMT or are you just

911
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: saying natural DMT.

912
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 3: It's not like natural DMT or okay, it's psychosis. It

913
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: was either DMT or psychosis.

914
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 2: It was, you know. The more that I learned, though,

915
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 2: the more that I realize, and we've talked about this

916
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: a little bit, hallucinations are not as rare as people

917
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: think in otherwise healthy brains, like they're really not. It's

918
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: actually kind of crazy and we should do it up

919
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: some one. We talked about it before and we will. Yeah,

920
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 2: but so you felt that was like a big part

921
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: of your healing process basically that.

922
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: I think that was like that was the first chapter

923
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 3: of the book when I when I that's when I realized, like,

924
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 3: holy shit, Alex Jones is full of it. That was

925
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 3: a definite big part.

926
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: What made you start to question in the first place.

927
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: Ah, I think it was, well, there's a little there's

928
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: a couple of small things. There's another thing that happened

929
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 3: in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, there

930
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 3: was these two text protesters from Maine known from New Hampshire,

931
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 3: Ed and the Lane Brown. They were on Alex Jones

932
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 3: Show about how income texts. Oh, that's the other I

933
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 3: used to believe income text is illegal as a really

934
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: big one with the whole patriot meuny. They were on

935
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 3: the Alex Jones Show talking about how the federal government's

936
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 3: illegitimate and blah blah blah blah blah. There was one

937
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 3: show where Alex Jones, I don't know if they had

938
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 3: a reporter there or a quote unquote reporter. There was gunshots,

939
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 3: So we don't know. I know that I know the

940
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 3: federal government did end up raiding their property. What happened.

941
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: And I've had a friend from that time that I

942
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: still talk to once in a while, and she'd reconfirmed

943
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 3: my belief. There was suspicion that that you know what

944
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 3: Stormfront is, Stormfront website, that's the notorious white supremacist website.

945
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: It sounds like if somebody from Stormfront had they were

946
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: basically having a bunch of a supporters going up to

947
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: the Editing ed and Lane BrownHouse, and there was a

948
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: story that somebody gave them maybe it was supporter from

949
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: the Stormfront had given them a satellite phone. Coincidentally, they

950
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: end up getting raided. They there was a theory that

951
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: the that that person was an informant, which is very common,

952
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: very common because a lot of conspiracy theorists, white supremacists,

953
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: they want family, so they just trust everybody.

954
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: So that that created doubt in you.

955
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: Because oh there was also there was also the theory

956
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 3: that Alex Jones was that he might have he might

957
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 3: have been friends with some federal informants. With that community,

958
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 3: there's a lot of.

959
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 4: Infighting, right of course, they're going to turn on you

960
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 4: eventually and say you're the real conspiracy.

961
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, people always called Alex Jones disinformation and he's a

962
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 3: disinfo agent, so I think maybe they even got into

963
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: my head. I'm like, oh, maybe he can't be trusted,

964
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 3: and then things are right.

965
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 4: So your brain took you away from it in a

966
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 4: very paranoid conspiracy thinking way, but it actually led you

967
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 4: to a more healthy, balanced.

968
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 3: Kind enough to get that wedge in there.

969
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, it's always about that first crack that then

970
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: slowly grows. Right. Do you think moving to Hawaii helped it?

971
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 3: Definitely helped. I can't recommend it for everybody because it's

972
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: expensive and the idea, like the housing prices here are

973
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 3: ridiculous now, especially with the pandemic, get a lot of

974
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: rich people buying everything sight unseen.

975
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: So but like leaving your bar community and like starting over,

976
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 2: getting new, a new environment in general definitely help.

977
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 3: And even if you can get out of if anybody

978
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: can't get out of their environment, change the people that

979
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: you're talking to.

980
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first crack was maybe Alex Jones himself

981
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: is disinformation, and then you started doing Kundalini yoga.

982
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,479
Speaker 3: So two thousand and six or two thousand and sevens

983
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 3: going to computer school, the bus would come down Rosa

984
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 3: Parks Avenue and it would turn towards uh it would

985
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 3: turn towards Highway. And this did this day in and

986
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 3: day out for about a year. One day the bus

987
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: was coming down and mind you, I had coke in

988
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: my pocket doing coke at the time. Was gonna bus

989
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 3: is coming down. And then it turned on the Michigan Avenue.

990
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: I remember, I distinctly remember the bus coming around kind

991
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: of halting the brakes. You can hear like the the

992
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: air brakes. Bus stops off in the distance. Well first

993
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: I remember hearing like this kind of loud thundering. I

994
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: look up, put my face against the window, and I

995
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 3: see these two black helicopters coming down. At that point,

996
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: my brain kicks off, like Alex Jones is right. I

997
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: can almost like hear like hear that voice, like holy shit,

998
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 3: it's happening. Get up the bus off in the front

999
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: of the bus, there's a munch of armed guards coming

1000
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 3: this way. And this point I'm like losing my mind, like,

1001
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: oh my god, they're coming for us. I remember distinctively

1002
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: thinking I need to get home and warm my friends.

1003
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 3: I need to warm my friends on MySpace. I gotta

1004
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 3: tell everybody it's happening. As I'm walking past the armed guards,

1005
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: I see this guy off the distance. He he looks hideous.

1006
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 3: It's I describe him as something of a out of

1007
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: a movie set. Let me back up little bit. So

1008
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 3: as I'm walking that way, I see the guy. He's

1009
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: very hideous looking. How the best way for me to

1010
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: describe from the people is he looks like a like

1011
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: a hairless scrotum stretched over a skeleton with two eyes

1012
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 3: bulging out.

1013
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: Well, that is very graphic, and I see him perfectly talking.

1014
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 3: About So I'm gonna leave that story at that. When

1015
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: you you read the you read the first chapter in

1016
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: at all.

1017
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you know, so a lot of what you're

1018
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 2: kind of tackling in your book, which is still in progress,

1019
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 2: is you know what to do if someone that you

1020
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 2: love believes in conspiracy theories? And you know, obviously there's

1021
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 2: no like magic button that's gonna fix this, right, But

1022
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 2: but do you have just like general wisdom for people?

1023
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: One? Actually, I have a book I'm gonna pull up

1024
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 3: right now. There's another book that if your audience has

1025
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: not heard of it, How to Have Impossible Conversations by

1026
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 3: Peter Bagassian, phenomenal book his it's about how to talk

1027
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: to ideologues. Somebody, as I opened this, me and my

1028
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: girlfriend had this stupid joke where we have a stupid necklace.

1029
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 3: I hide it, I do, and I knew I so

1030
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 3: come up with at the worst time. That's why I'm went,

1031
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 3: that's a good book. And then one thing is be

1032
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: emotionally flexible, meaning if somebody somebody's you know, a lot

1033
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 3: of conspiracy, there's want to you know, the idea of

1034
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna own the libs, okay whatever.

1035
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: I think there's the idea of gray rocking. But then

1036
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: there's also the idea of being emotionally flexible, having a

1037
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: feeling of compassion curiosity because when you're when you're if

1038
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 3: you're sitting with somebody and and you're got a feeling

1039
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: of compassion curiosity, it's easier to talk to somebody, right, yeah,

1040
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 3: and realize that your family member, friend, whoever it is.

1041
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 3: I don't think they actually want to be that way

1042
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: because they're caughting that toxic cycle. It's an abusive cycle

1043
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: where the New World Order is they're trying to fight them.

1044
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: It's just very toxic. Yeah, But when I started this book,

1045
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 3: I realized that I think a better sell a book.

1046
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 3: I think I'm right down the line is a self

1047
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 3: care guy for people who have friends in conspiracy theory

1048
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 3: slash cults because a big part of the book is

1049
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 3: about how to how to do self care for ourselves.

1050
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 2: That's really important.

1051
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so toxic.

1052
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it comes back to that same thing.

1053
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: It's that you feel powerless. It sucks to feel powerless

1054
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: when someone you love has fallen to the rabbit hole

1055
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: and you want to help them and you can't. I

1056
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: mean until they're ready. When they're ready, you can help them,

1057
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: but you can't force anyone out of that belief system. Right.

1058
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 3: The one thing that can help, there's the idea that

1059
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 3: every behavior something for us. You can what question I

1060
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 3: have in my book? I have a question that says,

1061
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 3: what does believing X do for you? Figure out? Like,

1062
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: what kind of emotional need it's fulfilling? What What does

1063
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 3: believing in satanic pedophiles do for you? Right? What kind

1064
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: of you say? What does it do for you or

1065
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 3: what does it allow you to to experience? It might

1066
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 3: be something they want to protect loved ones, protect humanity,

1067
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 3: and if that's the case, it's it's a noble cause

1068
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: you can. And then follow up with this suggesting maybe

1069
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 3: looking at other alternatives, maybe they can, they can work

1070
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: at a homeless shelter and do things at a small level.

1071
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 2: That if they have.

1072
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 3: Figure if you figure out what their need is, ask

1073
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 3: if they have any any hobbies that can get that

1074
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 3: need right. Another real good one is urge surfing. There's

1075
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 3: the idea that that we don't need to play with

1076
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: our phone. You in the book, I talk about a

1077
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 3: process real simple. You have your your loved one turn

1078
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 3: on their phone, look at whatever social media app where

1079
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: they get all their quote unquote news from. You have

1080
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 3: them turned the phone on, and make a bet with them.

1081
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: Tell them and if you tell anybody you're addicted to X,

1082
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 3: Y and Z, they're gonna fight back, say no, I

1083
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 3: can stop at any time. But okay, here's a five

1084
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 3: dollars bet. Let's see who can. Let's see who can

1085
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 3: not touch your phone longest, sit it down and just

1086
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 3: tell them they get any urges, just so just breathe

1087
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 3: through the urges, let it go, Let the urges come

1088
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: and go, and eventually you can help to break the

1089
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 3: condition response of see thing, feel, feeling have to touch phone.

1090
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: That's for someone who's aware that maybe they're engaging in

1091
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 2: some unhealthy behavior though, right, just.

1092
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: Need a way to kind of get into that little

1093
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 3: to get the break in there first.

1094
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Do you have like social media that you

1095
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 2: want to share or website?

1096
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: Social media people don't get offended. A lot of I

1097
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: got some off color humor. It's usually it's usually me

1098
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 3: poking fun of the right. I'll share my health aoween costumes.

1099
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: The past couple of years have have poked fun of

1100
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 3: the right. One year I was right before Trump got elected.

1101
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: I was Trump had the brick wall. It was Hillary Clinton.

1102
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 3: She had like laptop says how to delete emails, trying

1103
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 3: to like poke fun of both sides. And then this

1104
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: year I thought about being George Santos nice do that

1105
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 3: or I might I thought about being a stove with

1106
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 3: a big red maga hacks. You know, I'll freaking out

1107
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 3: about them them coming for a gas. That's ridiculous. But yeah,

1108
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 3: social media, they can if they look up Antonio B.

1109
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: Perez I think it is, or if they look up

1110
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 3: Hawaii hipotists or Hawaii nosis on Facebook. I should show

1111
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 3: me o conspiracyconverter dot com. I think it is a website.

1112
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 3: I should probably my website is go to conspiracy converter

1113
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 3: dot com. Put your email. I think you put your

1114
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 3: your name. Best email. You get the first three chapters

1115
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 3: of the book.

1116
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:55,760
Speaker 4: I really enjoy your book.

1117
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 2: It's really great.

1118
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 3: Thank you. I like me I I didn't like my

1119
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 3: writing song first. I like it. I like having a

1120
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: very conversational writing style, which I got from studying direct

1121
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: response copy, which is another another avenue of right wing write.

1122
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 3: A lot of direct refound sales copy sells stuff like

1123
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: supplements for older conservatives, money making scheme, so it breeds

1124
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 3: that kind of thinking.

1125
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you so much for joining us, and

1126
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 2: I'm so glad to come on.

1127
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 3: I could talk about this stuff for aight.

1128
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 4: We come too, so we will definitely vantuch.

1129
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, great to meet you.

1130
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 3: Definitely.

1131
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,439
Speaker 2: Okay, So we've had a number of conspiracy episodes lately,

1132
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 2: so I'm out of questions to ask Megan. So instead

1133
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 2: we're going to do something a little different. We're gonna

1134
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 2: have Steve, our favorite producer in the whole world, do

1135
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: an impression of Alex Jones for us.

1136
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 3: Hi. Oh, I just jump into it right now, take

1137
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 3: it away. Well, what would you want to say to

1138
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 3: Alex Jones if he was right here?

1139
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: Hey, Alex, are you lying to us?

1140
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 3: Hold on, look, we're gonna sorry this up.

1141
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 5: Hold on, I have five hundred pages is worth of

1142
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 5: proof that I'm not lying this very moment right now.

1143
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 5: You're lying everything you're thinking.

1144
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: You yes, all of this.

1145
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 5: There's a podcasts don't actually exist. It is the deep

1146
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 5: state that is trying to convince you about that.

1147
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 2: Are we the deep state?

1148
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1149
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 5: You're I'm running out of scheme, guys, you.

1150
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: Guys, it was so good.

1151
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 4: It's really good.

1152
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much, Steve, Steve, take that on

1153
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 2: the road. Okay, all right, guys.

1154
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: Thank We're so grateful to spend another day with you.

1155
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: We can't wait to talk to you again next week.

1156
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: As I always remember to follow your gut, watch out

1157
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: for red flags, and never ever trust me.

1158
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: You should say it and sing heye bye. Trust Me

1159
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemator.

1160
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1161
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,479
Speaker 2: And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1162
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast.

1163
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me cultpod or on TikTok at trust

1164
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: Me Cult Podcast.

1165
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1166
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Abraham

1167
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1168
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.